There Are No Girls on the Internet - July 29, 2025


Tea App Didn’t Just Spill Data; It Endangered Women

Topics
Candace Owens sued by French President; Mehdi Hasan and Jubilee’s fascist “debate;” Trump’s grifty war on “Woke AI” – News Roundup (w⧸ Dope Labs’ Dr. Titi Shodiya) Sydney Sweeney's jeans; Jet2 Holiday meme hijacked by DHS; Tea app hack lawsuit; Substack promotes Nazis – NEWS ROUNDUP w⧸ Abbie Richards

Episode Stats


Length

43 minutes

Words per minute

182.02

Word count

7,963

Sentence count

391

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Toxicity

23

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:01:05.020 I survived nine months in captivity,
00:01:07.980 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:01:11.700 what should have destroyed them.
00:01:13.700 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:01:17.400 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:01:21.100 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:01:24.740 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:01:28.800 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:40.420 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:48.540 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:51.280 in last week's news roundup one of the stories that we cut for time was about the tea dating
00:01:58.860 app for women at the time when we were recording the story was still pretty simple just that this
00:02:03.220 dating app that had quietly existed for two years had rocketed to the top of apple's app store
00:02:08.240 because it was getting a ton of attention on social media from people making videos on platforms like
00:02:12.940 about how the app played into gender dynamics around women who date men i was seeing posts
00:02:18.840 on TikTok about the T app from my own city here in D.C., about how some women were using it to
00:02:23.960 talk about legitimately abusive behavior from men, while other women were using it to talk about
00:02:29.600 sort of commonplace dating annoyances, like men who don't text back or men who ghost, and how
00:02:35.140 conflating those two things on one app is probably not great. According to the people who run the T
00:02:41.020 app, all of these kinds of potes were really driving a ton of attention, which is not at all
00:02:46.100 surprising because gender war stuff will always generate engagement. Fat attention was both 0.99
00:02:51.540 positive and negative, with a lot of men complaining about how this app was unfair.
00:02:55.920 But in the economy of the internet, it really doesn't matter because it's all engagement either
00:03:00.260 way. So everybody was talking about this app and it became number one on the app store in the
00:03:04.960 lifestyle category. The company said that something like 1 million people had downloaded the app in
00:03:09.940 just a few weeks alone. Sensor Tower, a marketing intelligence firm that tracks app data, estimated
00:03:15.620 that the downloads of the app increased 185% in the first 20 days of July compared with June of
00:03:21.980 that same period. The company that makes the app said on social media that they had gotten over
00:03:26.020 4 million female users with a waiting list of approximately 900,000 new prospective users.
00:03:32.100 There is a waiting list because before women can use the app, they have to be verified.
00:03:36.320 This will be important for later. So as recently as last Thursday night when we were recording
00:03:41.780 the News Roundup, that was really the main gist of what was going on. So I ended up not talking
00:03:46.540 about it at all because there was a lot of other important stuff going on and I kind of just ran
00:03:50.240 out of time. But now I am glad that we did not talk about it because right after we published
00:03:55.740 that episode, the T app experienced a pretty major data breach. So let's talk about what the T app is,
00:04:03.000 what exactly happened, the gendered history of online platforms like the T app, and what I think
00:04:08.760 it all means. So what exactly is the T app? I want to spend some time on how it works before we get
00:04:14.420 into the data breach. It's a dating app that's kind of like the Yelp if you were rating men
00:04:19.300 instead of restaurants. So not a dating app that helps you match with people to date, but an app
00:04:24.380 that tries to help you make more informed dating choices. Women can anonymously share information 1.00
00:04:29.600 about the experiences that they've had with specific men to help inform other women. The key
00:04:34.860 here is the anonymity. When you first join the app, you're told that it is totally and completely
00:04:39.880 anonymous, and that screenshotting the app is not possible. If you try to take a screenshot,
00:04:44.960 you'll get a black screen. Though you can obviously still take a photo of the app with
00:04:49.260 an additional device, which people do pretty often. On the T app, you can even describe a
00:04:53.900 guy's behavior and have other women weigh in on whether you should keep seeing him or not. 0.76
00:04:57.800 Women assign men red flags for problematic behavior and green flags for good behavior.
00:05:02.620 Basically, it's a digital whisper network in the form of an app for women to post photos of men and talk about whatever they might know about that man. 0.82
00:05:10.080 You know, like sub-billing the tea.
00:05:12.040 So what separates the tea app from other kinds of platforms like this is that it kind of bills itself as an app for women's safety.
00:05:19.260 They gave 10% of their proceeds to the National Domestic Violence Hotline.
00:05:22.420 And even though the app is free, users get five free searches each month.
00:05:26.900 After that, they're given a choice.
00:05:28.200 pay for T's $15 a month subscription, or invite friends to keep using it for free.
00:05:34.400 So basically, invite your girlfriends to have their data breached as well.
00:05:38.200 All kidding aside, it's actually kind of a smart strategy for a growing app, 0.99
00:05:41.960 especially one that is so dependent on having a large user base of women
00:05:45.680 able to weigh in on the men in any particular area.
00:05:48.640 For apps like this, users are basically as good as cash,
00:05:51.680 so either pay up for the premium version or invite your girlfriends.
00:05:54.420 The T app promises that women who date men can make sure your date is safe, not a catfish or not in a relationship.
00:06:02.020 According to T's marketing materials, the app's founder, Sean Cook, who formerly was a product manager at Salesforce and Shutterfly, launched the app because he witnessed his own mother's terrifying experience with online dating.
00:06:14.840 He said she was catfished and unknowingly engaged with men who had criminal records.
00:06:19.520 He teamed up with a social media creator named Daniela Satella, who came on as the T app's social media director, who created a buzzy, pink and purple, Gen Z friendly social media presence for the app.
00:06:30.640 The website says that T is on a mission to revolutionize dating safety by equipping women with cutting edge tools, real time insights and a powerful community to navigate the modern dating world with confidence and control.
00:06:42.720 At its core, the site says, T is built on one fundamental belief.
00:06:47.300 Women should never have to compromise their safety while dating.
00:06:50.940 So users anonymously post photos of men they're dating and asking others if they have any T on them.
00:06:56.780 Users can also turn on notification alerts to see if a specific name is mentioned on the app.
00:07:01.700 So if I meet Joe Blow on the street and I want to keep tabs on whether or not he shows up on the T app, I can set a notification alert for his name.
00:07:09.660 Other tools on the app allow users to run background checks, search for criminal records,
00:07:13.640 and reverse image search for photos in the hopes of spotting catfishing or people passing
00:07:18.360 off photos of other people as themselves.
00:07:20.600 If this premise sounds kind of familiar, it's because it's very similar to those
00:07:24.680 are we dating the same guy pages on social media, which you might recall sparked lawsuits.
00:07:30.360 Last year, a Chicago man sued Meta, as well as women who dated him and their parents,
00:07:35.320 women who commented on Facebook posts about him in a Facebook group and the moderators of the group
00:07:40.700 for defamation, invasion of privacy, doxing and more. The complaint was dismissed. And similarly,
00:07:46.300 a man in L.A. filed a lawsuit against 50 women. The man, Stuart Lucas Murray, sued 50 women for
00:07:52.580 defamation, libel, sex-based discrimination and other allegations, all stemming from their posts
00:07:58.200 in the Facebook group Are We Dating the Same Guy? Some of the women that he sued had never even met
00:08:03.800 him only commented on the Facebook post with things like, oh, wow, and he sued them too.
00:08:10.620 This situation is pretty interesting. I would actually recommend Googling Stuart Lucas Murray
00:08:15.400 because he has a pretty prolific public profile. I won't say much more than that because,
00:08:20.780 in my opinion, he seems like a pretty litigious guy, but it is an interesting Google. So one of
00:08:26.200 the defendants in that suit described the accusations as baseless, emphasizing that
00:08:30.680 the group serves as a platform for sharing personal experiences with men and opinions,
00:08:34.940 which she says are protected from defamation. Here's a little bit of their press conference.
00:08:39.380 As myself and my fellow co-defendants were just speaking their truth,
00:08:43.980 and unfortunately for him, it was, again, not favorable. So he somehow found those comments
00:08:51.660 that we did make. Again, they were factual and they were based in our true experiences.
00:08:58.240 He found those comments and decided to come forth with this lawsuit with his claims of defamation, which we feel are invalid because there is no evidence that we know of that would exist in support of his claims.
00:09:19.800 So just like that Chicago case, this case was also dismissed.
00:09:24.300 But even still, Facebook really started cracking down on those are we dating the same guy pages,
00:09:29.900 where women would dish about men on Facebook,
00:09:32.280 which is pretty ironic considering Mark Zuckerberg originally conceptualized the idea of Facebook
00:09:36.640 to rate the looks of the women that he called dogs in his college dorm.
00:09:40.640 But in any event, a lot of those groups are being pushed off of Facebook,
00:09:43.760 which is why apps like the T-app have popped up in their place.
00:09:47.760 This kind of Yelp for people thing may seem novel, but it's actually not a new idea at all.
00:09:52.240 There was an app back in 2012 called Lulu, which integrated with Facebook to let you rate men that you dated and judge them on what other women say about them.
00:10:00.580 It was actually pretty similar to the T app in that when a Facebook user joined Lulu, it pulled the names of the men that they knew in their network.
00:10:07.900 And if a user decided to rate them, it would generate a public facing page announcing that that man had been reviewed.
00:10:13.880 Originally, that page featured that man's name and photograph pulled from his Facebook account.
00:10:18.640 So Lulu is kind of similar to the TF, but it was really more about rating men in bed, like a cheeky way of being like, oh, this guy has hashtag big feet, and less about trying to keep women safe from abuse.
00:10:32.340 Lulu was eventually acquired and shut down.
00:10:34.700 Its Wikipedia page says it was described in popular press as sexist and objectifying, non-consensual and shallow and mean.
00:10:41.640 I also remember way back in the early 2000s, there was this big splash about a site called Girl Don't Date Him that advertised itself as a kind of credit report for men.
00:10:51.600 The site's founder, Tasha Joseph, was kind of a fast-talking lady, and she was always going on entertainment news shows to talk about dating.
00:10:59.480 And I actually remember that site got quite a lot of good press, but it went just about as well as you might expect.
00:11:05.100 The Miami New Times wrote an interesting piece in 2006 about how somebody fabricated a very
00:11:10.220 sensational story about a horrible man who sexually assaulted a woman that later led
00:11:15.120 to her death by suicide.
00:11:16.620 The story was completely fabricated, but posted on the site without proof, and it kind of
00:11:21.300 went proto-viral.
00:11:23.060 But the torrid tale was a total lie, just to prove a point.
00:11:26.980 The person who wrote that fake post said,
00:11:29.140 The bottom line is that this website is dangerous, and the chances of a visitor reading some 0.99
00:11:33.760 bullshit story like the one that 0.98
00:11:35.100 I posted about someone they know are great. The Miami New Times also profiled a man on the site 0.99
00:11:40.460 who was accused of sexually assaulting a woman, but later it's revealed that he's actually never 0.54
00:11:44.760 had sex with a woman because he's gay, and that the person who wrote that post was actually a
00:11:49.880 former co-worker of his who was making false reports on the site to harass him. In 2006, 0.99
00:11:55.600 a Pennsylvania attorney filed a suit against the website's owner, as well as two alleged posters
00:12:00.520 and five unidentified women for various claims that they made about him that he asserted were
00:12:05.100 false and defamatory. The suit was initially dismissed in Pennsylvania for lack of personal
00:12:09.120 jurisdiction, but in 2007, that man brought a second lawsuit in federal court in Florida,
00:12:14.120 which was settled after the judge refused to dismiss the new case. The terms of the settlement
00:12:18.280 were not disclosed. Girl Don't Date Him eventually pivoted to publishing articles about safer dating
00:12:24.300 practices until it was shut down entirely. So if you're wondering, wouldn't a similar platform
00:12:29.240 like the T-app just potentially turn into a breeding ground for defamation and harassment?
00:12:34.340 I had the very same thought, because you don't actually need any proof about what is being posted to the app.
00:12:40.080 Anyone can basically say anything about anyone.
00:12:43.080 Though we do know that, statistically speaking, it is quite rare for women to lie about abuse.
00:12:48.140 T's support team stresses that they have a zero-tolerance policy for defamatory content,
00:12:52.860 and that they ask anyone on the receiving end of this to get in touch with them.
00:12:56.280 But, of course, they would say that.
00:12:57.740 I actually haven't seen much about how they handle it when someone does get in touch about alleged defamation.
00:13:02.540 I would be curious to know, and I think given the popularity and the attention of the Tee app,
00:13:06.940 I would guess that that's probably something we'll be hearing more about in the next coming weeks or months.
00:13:13.760 Let's take a quick break.
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00:14:00.940 844-844-IHEART to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held
00:14:09.660 captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:14:15.900 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just
00:14:22.040 remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, 0.97
00:14:30.940 I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:14:34.380 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:14:38.840 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:14:46.460 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:14:50.380 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:14:53.840 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:14:56.940 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:05.880 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:15:11.820 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:15:24.300 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:15:31.400 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.
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00:15:58.020 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:04.080 See you between the pages.
00:16:11.160 At our back.
00:16:12.040 listeners probably know that i have kind of a complicated relationship with section 230 of
00:16:19.340 the communications decency act the controversial law that says that social media platforms are not
00:16:24.300 liable for the content posted by users now we have had experts on the show who have both defended
00:16:29.680 section 230 as a critical law for protecting the open internet and we've had other experts on the
00:16:34.700 show who have argued that it should be repealed because it lets platforms off the hook for hosting
00:16:39.100 things like hate speech. So needless to say, it's complicated. But as of today, Section 230 is still
00:16:45.120 the law of the land. So thanks to Section 230, the T app itself is protected from being liable for the
00:16:50.780 content posted on the platform. And according to Elliott Williams, a former deputy assistant
00:16:55.780 attorney general at the Justice Department and current legal analyst for CNN, in the case of
00:17:00.840 individual users, establishing malicious intent, which is required in a defamation lawsuit, might
00:17:06.520 be kind of tricky because they could always argue that their aim was to protect other women and not
00:17:11.080 to harm someone. But as you might imagine, the app's premise was immediately polarizing along
00:17:16.640 the lines of gender war stuff. Some praised it as a useful way to warn women about the dangerous
00:17:21.860 behavior of men, while others called it divisive and a violation of men's privacy. Here's what the
00:17:27.720 CEO had to say on the release podcast. We receive probably about three legal threats a day from
00:17:34.680 different men that are disappointed that women have told largely true stories about them on these
00:17:41.680 apps. And so they are upset that they've done something bad to a woman and that a woman has
00:17:46.080 told people about it. And we have a full legal team that helps us navigate those situations. And
00:17:50.600 all of the way that we operate is well within legal guidelines. And then there's also a whole
00:17:56.780 men's rights activism community that doesn't like what we're doing. And so they're constantly trying
00:18:02.840 of tear us down and organize, you know, mass petitions to take us down and mass reporting
00:18:09.380 of us on the app store to try to take us down.
00:18:12.300 So, you know, we have a lot of people that are unhappy about what we're doing.
00:18:16.140 And and that's OK with us.
00:18:18.340 You know, we believe that women deserve to be able to share their stories and to be able
00:18:23.260 to have safe, you know, relationships.
00:18:27.240 So I obviously don't disagree with him that women should be able to have safe relationships.
00:18:32.840 But it really highlights the question, are apps like the T-app, the digital version of a whisper network,
00:18:38.620 and a way for women to inform each other about potential abusers, stalkers, and catfishes?
00:18:43.240 Or is it an app for women to gossip about men, potentially defame them, and put those men at risk?
00:18:49.460 Here's how Dazed puts it in a piece that was written before news of the data breach, which we'll get to in a moment.
00:18:54.520 For some, the app is a vital resource, a way to alert other women to the predators and abusers lurking undetected in the dating pool.
00:19:01.740 Unlike anything else out there, this is an app designed with women's safety, awareness, and empowerment as its top priority, reads one review on the App Store.
00:19:09.580 It goes beyond basic dating protection and truly provides a layer of defense against liars, cheaters, scammers, and even predators.
00:19:16.440 Another reviewer says they're glad to have a means of warning other women about her abusive ex.
00:19:21.180 He's attractive, smart, and charming.
00:19:23.200 You'd never know it.
00:19:24.240 For so long, I was hoping for a way to warn other women off of him.
00:19:28.540 So I do think this is legitimately very important, and I don't want to dismiss this.
00:19:34.040 Marginalized people especially have been making use of whisper networks since forever.
00:19:38.960 Gossip and information sharing can be a real tool for women to keep ourselves and our community safe 1.00
00:19:43.660 when it doesn't always feel like we have access to more traditional forms of safety.
00:19:46.980 So I get it. There is a real need for this kind of information sharing.
00:19:52.020 And I think the popularity of the T app shows that women really do feel like they need ways
00:19:57.020 to arm themselves with information to feel safer when dating.
00:20:00.940 When you think about how common things like sexual abuse actually are, 0.98
00:20:04.920 it makes complete sense to me why women would flock to something
00:20:07.920 that says that it's offering them a feeling like they can put their safety in their own hands
00:20:12.500 by searching a guy on the T app before they let him into their lives.
00:20:16.440 But an app offering women safety, then lying to them,
00:20:20.680 and betraying those women by failing to follow the most basic steps at keeping them safe is not it.
00:20:27.020 And when you look at what happened with this breach, we really are talking about women's actual safety here, not just theoretically.
00:20:34.760 So let's talk about the breach.
00:20:36.720 I mentioned the app is only for women, so in order to verify your gender, anyone signing up to the app needs to submit a selfie.
00:20:43.420 But in earlier iterations of this app, in addition to a selfie, women also had to submit their driver's licenses.
00:20:49.940 One of my big questions was how the app deals with trans women or non-binary people.
00:20:53.800 The app does not disallow trans women.
00:20:56.020 I'm not totally sure about non-binary people.
00:20:58.720 And let's not dive too much into the binary of the app,
00:21:01.320 verifying one's gender to keep men out.
00:21:03.780 But if this is something that you've had experience with,
00:21:05.720 please let me know.
00:21:06.580 You can shoot me a DM or email us at hello at tangody.com.
00:21:09.800 So once your information is submitted to the T app,
00:21:12.300 then there is a waiting period up to 17 hours or more
00:21:15.240 if a lot of people are trying to sign up for the app at the same time as you.
00:21:18.820 Now, T said that in 2023,
00:21:20.800 it removed the requirement for photo ID in addition to the selfie.
00:21:24.300 So now you just submit a selfie.
00:21:26.020 But that bit about having to submit your driver's license is going to be pretty key here.
00:21:30.980 So on Friday night, after the news roundup is published and live in the world,
00:21:35.320 your girl is happily two margaritas deep at the bar,
00:21:38.160 and the folks who run the T app said that there had been a data breach of a legacy storage system holding data for its users.
00:21:46.760 This came after the app angered some men and prompted a thread on the extremist troll message board 4chan
00:21:53.160 in which users called for a hack-and-leak campaign of the T-app.
00:21:57.520 A spokesperson for the T-app confirmed all of this to Lifehacker, saying,
00:22:01.560 T identified unauthorized access to one of its systems and immediately launched a full investigation to assess the scope and impact.
00:22:08.580 The initial results of this effort suggest that the incident involved a legacy data storage system containing information from over two years ago.
00:22:15.120 approximately 72,000 images, including approximately 13,000 images of selfies and photo
00:22:21.760 identification submitted during the verification, and 59,000 images publicly viewable in the app
00:22:27.500 from posts, comments, and direct messages were accessed without authorization. So yeah, that
00:22:33.880 includes about 13,000 images of women's driver's licenses that they submitted back when that was
00:22:39.720 a requirement to join the app. And also posts, comments, and direct messages in the apps were
00:22:44.880 also part of this breach. Now, here's kind of a key detail. According to T's privacy policy,
00:22:51.000 the selfies that it requires from people signing up for the app are deleted shortly after those
00:22:55.380 users are verified. But that obviously was not happening, or at least it wasn't happening with
00:23:00.180 the images that were included in that breach. According to the New York Times, rather than
00:23:04.740 being deleted like the privacy policy said would happen, that data was stored, quote,
00:23:09.160 in compliance with law enforcement requirements related to cyberbullying prevention.
00:23:14.140 T said in a statement, and that data was not moved to newer systems that T said were better fortified.
00:23:20.280 So basically, the T app lied to its users about the privacy policies that it was taking.
00:23:25.800 It's also not clear what law enforcement requirements are talking about.
00:23:30.600 I've got to admit, it kind of sounds like a pretty convenient dodge to me, but I'm not totally sure.
00:23:35.020 When the breach initially happened, the company said that the only people impacted were those who signed up before February 2024.
00:23:42.240 But on Monday, 404 Media reported that there was a second major security issue
00:23:47.100 impacting women who had signed up and used the app much more recently.
00:23:51.100 Basically, the T app exposed much more user data than was initially reported,
00:23:55.480 with an independent security researcher now finding that it was possible for hackers
00:24:00.220 to access really sensitive direct messages between users.
00:24:04.160 Kashra Bajardi, the researcher who flagged the issue to 404 Media,
00:24:07.600 sent a database of more than 1.1 million messages they said stretched from early 2023 to as
00:24:14.340 recently as last week. And some of the private messages viewed by 404 Media that hackers could
00:24:20.060 have had access to included very sensitive stuff. Conversations about having had abortions,
00:24:25.580 information about cheating partners, and even messages that included people's phone numbers.
00:24:30.080 Despite T's initial statement that the only thing impacted was information from over two years ago,
00:24:34.800 The researcher also said that they found the ability to send a push notification to all of Tee's users.
00:24:41.500 Like, it is hard to overstate how bad this is.
00:24:45.340 So just to be clear, I am not a software developer, so I'm not an expert in this.
00:24:50.600 But doing some research, it sounds like the company has a lot of the blame here,
00:24:54.660 to the point where I'm not even sure that it's fair to call this a hack or a leak because they were just that sloppy with user data.
00:25:02.400 Like, it truly sounds like these women had photos and their driver's license photos posted to 4chan
00:25:07.660 because the T app just didn't bother to take basic security steps.
00:25:12.720 404 Media, one of my favorite tech outlets, was the first to break the story of what happened,
00:25:17.920 which is that users from 4chan claimed to have discovered an exposed and unsecured database
00:25:22.760 hosted on Google's mobile app development platform, Firebase, belonging to the T app.
00:25:27.760 On 4chan, folks were bragging that this let them rifle through women's personal data and selfies that were uploaded to the app.
00:25:34.460 Then, of course, they posted that data online.
00:25:37.080 Over on 4chan, users exclaimed,
00:25:39.380 Yes, if you sent T-app your face and driver's license, they dox you publicly.
00:25:44.200 No authentication, no nothing.
00:25:46.160 It's a public bucket. 0.99
00:25:47.920 Driver's licenses and face pics, get the fuck in here before they shut it down. 0.53
00:25:52.500 Now, the thread says that the issue was this exposed database that allowed anybody to access this material. 0.90
00:25:57.980 And 404 Media confirmed a voluminous list of specific attachments associated with the T app.
00:26:03.860 Eventually, that page was locked down.
00:26:06.660 The 4chan post includes a photo of four women's driver's licenses that the 4chan user says they redacted.
00:26:12.440 But the comment on that 4chan thread indicates that many more photos of T users have been exposed,
00:26:18.700 with one person claiming that they downloaded thousands.
00:26:22.520 404 Media saw 4chan users share dozens of photos of women that they claim were downloaded from the database,
00:26:28.200 which all shared the same image dimensions and file naming format that they saw on the list in the exposed Google Firebase bucket.
00:26:35.540 Initially, the person who discovered all this says they tried to report it to Google, but ended up reporting it to 404 Media instead.
00:26:41.620 So let's break this down because it's basically like if your doctor stored your private personal medical records in an open crate in the back alley behind the clinic.
00:26:50.880 Or like if your bank stored all of your money in an open shoebox in the bank's lobby. 0.93
00:26:55.680 Obviously, it's pretty fucked up for 4chan to access this, but it is even more fucked up that the T app, 0.97
00:27:02.100 this app that is getting away with billing themselves to be about women's safety, 0.98
00:27:05.880 is letting this level of sensitive information just essentially be publicly accessible. 0.99
00:27:10.780 I cannot overstate what a massive, massive fuck-up this is, 0.87
00:27:14.400 because both because of the very serious harm that has been done to these 13,000 women, 0.87
00:27:18.980 And also because it happened because the developers just left this information sitting out there unsecured for anybody to just come and get it.
00:27:28.800 More after a quick break.
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00:28:20.940 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:28:26.860 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:28:33.240 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:28:36.940 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99
00:28:42.360 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99
00:28:45.020 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:28:49.560 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:28:54.120 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:29:01.560 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:29:05.520 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:29:08.960 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:29:12.100 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:29:21.060 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:29:27.000 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:29:39.460 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:29:46.580 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:29:50.160 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:29:56.100 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:30:03.580 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:30:13.180 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:30:19.220 See you between the pages.
00:30:26.580 Let's get right back into it. 0.99
00:30:29.720 So what the ever-loving fuck happened here? 0.99
00:30:32.800 We don't actually know. 0.98
00:30:34.500 A lot of my cybersecurity friends that I talked to about this said that the site might have been vibe-coded,
00:30:39.940 which is when someone who doesn't know any better or is just careless and sloppy and lazy
00:30:44.560 just uses AI to help them put together a site,
00:30:47.880 and they don't really know the things they should be asking for, so it comes out really janky.
00:30:52.280 But other friends have suggested this could also just be a careless person.
00:30:56.580 There's also the idea that this kind of fuck-up is unfortunately not super uncommon.
00:31:02.040 Just a few weeks ago, the insurance company Alliance Life disclosed a breach through a third-party cloud vendor affecting most of its 1.4 million U.S. customers, including financial professionals and employees.
00:31:13.700 And all of their personal data was accessed.
00:31:16.560 And due to a Google Analytics misconfiguration on their site, up to 4.7 million individuals had their names, insurance details, zip codes, and patient identifiers shared improperly.
00:31:27.340 So as shocking as this is, this kind of breach is not terribly uncommon.
00:31:32.420 There was also such big fervor around the TF breach.
00:31:35.920 An interactive Google map was circulating online purporting to show where all the different women's addresses included in the breach were located.
00:31:43.140 This even got to a point where a fake story emerged on social media using an AI-generated news broadcaster warning women about the so-called T-bag killer,
00:31:51.980 who, the fake report said, was killing the women whose addresses were exposed in the breach.
00:31:57.900 Now, this is not true.
00:32:00.140 Controversy clinging to it in the form of an AI-generated newscast this week.
00:32:05.220 Police are investigating a string of murders linked to the tea app
00:32:08.860 where women who exposed men were later found dead.
00:32:12.820 Detroit police say there is absolutely no truth to the so-called teabag killer.
00:32:18.400 I stuffed their throats with teabags.
00:32:20.280 The Post even had a name of a DPD investigator.
00:32:24.680 There's no one by that name that works for the department.
00:32:27.200 But if you're not looking, these deep fakes can be tricky to spot. 0.96
00:32:31.460 So thankfully, we don't have to worry about the teabag killer. 0.98
00:32:35.000 But we cannot not talk about the gender dynamics at play here. 0.96
00:32:38.720 Because something that almost feels a little, I don't know, hinky about this entire thing
00:32:43.900 is that it fits so squarely and neatly into a gender wars framework. 0.67
00:32:47.800 You know, women using an app that they believe to be anonymous to share pictures of men and gossip about men. 0.60
00:32:54.480 Men saying, this is doxing.
00:32:56.320 And then those same women getting doxed by the really sloppy privacy protocols and their images being posted all over the Internet.
00:33:03.400 Like, it almost seems like a tailor-made kind of gender wars just so story to the point where when I first heard about this breach, I almost wondered if it was some kind of a setup.
00:33:13.100 up. And of course, those women's images were floating all over the internet with men making 0.51
00:33:18.180 fun of them with all kinds of sexist, misogynistic barbs. And just a few days after the breach,
00:33:24.400 someone made a site that ranks the looks of the women featured in the breached images,
00:33:28.580 which, hey, I thought Mark Zuckerberg already had that idea. And some of those photos have
00:33:33.060 been ranked tens of thousands of times. And I think that really demonstrates why women would 1.00
00:33:38.440 flock to an app like the T app, you know, an app that is promising even falsely to help women have
00:33:44.440 safer experiences with men. The fact that men on 4chan would do this kind of thing kind of proves
00:33:49.900 their point. When I went to see what people were saying about this online, I found a lot of women
00:33:54.940 upset at the idea that men would be so bothered that women would have a space online to discuss
00:33:59.680 the behavior of men. One Instagram comment on the T app's Instagram page reads, wow, it's crazy how
00:34:05.440 some men are genuinely upset about this app, mainly because it disrupts their ability to
00:34:09.860 move in deception and avoid taking accountability for their actions. The T app's Instagram page
00:34:15.500 is littered with stories purporting to show women who have used the app to find out their husbands
00:34:20.340 or the fathers of their kids are running around on them. No, it's not clear to me if these are
00:34:24.560 actually real stories or just more marketing from the app. And again, I don't want to discount that
00:34:30.320 women should have a space to talk about their experiences in dating. And I don't want the
00:34:34.560 survivors of abuse to go unheard. But I have to admit that I am personally very uncomfortable with
00:34:40.540 apps like this, even while I understand why women might feel empowered by what these apps are 0.57
00:34:46.260 selling. And of course, there's already calls and online forms to make a version of the T-app for
00:34:51.780 men to rate women as payback, even though men kind of already have this. Like, men don't really need
00:34:58.220 a dedicated app to rate women. One such app called T-Born, according to NBC News, quickly ignited
00:35:04.660 backlash after its creator called out users for posting revenge porn. Wow, what a shocker. Who
00:35:10.040 could have seen that coming? The T-Born app has now been removed from the app store, and there
00:35:15.180 are men all over men's rights Reddit communities saying that this is evidence of anti-male bias,
00:35:20.740 that the T-app for women to rate men would be able to remain on the app store, but the app for men
00:35:26.760 to rate women was taken down. I think what makes me the most angry about this entire thing honestly
00:35:33.180 isn't the 4chan goons responsible. It's the fact that this app would purport to give women a space
00:35:39.100 to keep themselves safe and betray them so cruelly by putting them at risk. Like, as fucked up as 1.00
00:35:45.080 4chan is for circulating these images and this data, who expects anything other than this kind 0.99
00:35:50.320 of behavior from the guys who hang out on 4chan? If anything, the fact that these kinds of threats
00:35:55.420 exist for women should mean that the people who run apps like the T app have an even bigger
00:36:00.280 responsibility to protect those women that they have attracted to their platform with the promise
00:36:04.700 of caring about their safety. Or at the very least, they ought to not be outright lying to
00:36:10.560 those women about what steps they're taking to keep them safe so they can make up their own
00:36:14.600 minds about whether or not they're going to trust this platform. The T app issued an apology for the
00:36:19.040 breach, but it kind of doesn't matter. They had a responsibility to protect their users and they
00:36:23.860 failed hard. And fuck-ups like this are not a force of nature. They happen because somebody 0.99
00:36:29.220 somewhere in the company decided that this amount of security was good enough. They could have hired
00:36:33.920 additional software engineers or contracted with an outside company to do a security audit,
00:36:38.220 but they didn't. They decided to spend money on other stuff. And it's obvious that they did not
00:36:43.040 invest enough in security to keep their users safe. The T app's security practices, or lack
00:36:48.640 thereof make me think that this app that was started by a man was never really invested in
00:36:54.560 women's safety at all, because if they were, they would have had better security practices.
00:36:59.260 I think that what they were actually interested in is just capitalizing on the inevitable online 0.98
00:37:03.980 engagement from the promise of women telling each other juicy stories about men. Cover that with a 0.85
00:37:09.720 little splashy pink influencer style social media presence, and you've got a solid business plan 1.00
00:37:14.800 to capitalize on the unpleasant experiences of women. 0.99
00:37:18.560 Who cares if you put those women at risk?
00:37:20.900 I mean, this is just my personal take,
00:37:22.540 but I think the T app was basically quickly and sloppily thrown together
00:37:26.480 with security and privacy obviously as an afterthought 1.00
00:37:29.720 just to generate and make use of gendered rage bait 1.00
00:37:32.660 in order to garner attention for the app.
00:37:35.420 And the sad thing is, this is effective.
00:37:37.980 I just checked, and the T app is currently the number two app on the entire app store.
00:37:42.740 To put that in perspective, right now, the number one app is ChatGPT.
00:37:47.500 And I guess ultimately, I simply do not trust a lot of for-profit apps that are selling and packaging safety to women.
00:37:54.100 Because real safety is not someone telling you on an app that a guy is a red flag.
00:37:59.180 It's having safer communities, healthier relationship dynamics, avenues for meaningful accountability.
00:38:05.220 It's about being able to communicate on platforms that aren't just lying to us and exploiting us and putting us at risk.
00:38:10.800 So yeah, I guess I just don't like the idea of safety being sold to us as a for-profit app.
00:38:15.720 And I think it also creates a dynamic that puts the burden on keeping yourself safe on women.
00:38:20.720 Like, we should be able to have safe dating experiences without relying on apps that ultimately exploit us.
00:38:26.700 And honestly, what makes me really sad is that on the T-apps Instagram post about the breach,
00:38:32.020 a lot of the comments are from women who do not seem to care about the breach. 0.53
00:38:36.120 They just want to know when their verification to sign up for the app will be approved.
00:38:39.600 And it makes me sad that the state of gender and dating is so bad that even on a post about the app admitting how carelessly it treated very sensitive information of their users, people are still just clamoring to get on the app.
00:38:52.660 Like, it makes me think we really are cooked.
00:38:55.540 And I think the T app is a bit of a harbinger of things to come, bad things to be clear, because we've talked a lot about the rise of age verification laws and laws that would require folks to submit their government ID to access different corners of the Internet.
00:39:08.180 I am very personally against laws like this for several reasons, but what happened with the T-app breach is an excellent example of one of those reasons.
00:39:16.720 A lot of what keeps us secure online comes down to shared norms, like we learn not to click those suspicious links and not to give away our two-factor authentication codes or how to spot a scam or a spoof call.
00:39:28.280 But when apps and websites start asking for more and more sensitive information like social security numbers, face scans, or photo IDs, it trains us to just hand over our data without really thinking twice about it.
00:39:40.720 Sharing this kind of information can start to feel as automatic as just hitting agree on a terms of service without thinking much about it.
00:39:47.100 And that is no good.
00:39:48.720 The more apps and services that require us to give up our personal information, the more opportunity there is for that information to fall into the wrong hands.
00:39:57.320 Cybersecurity experts sometimes call this expanding the surface area of risk.
00:40:01.680 And the real problem is, is that we don't have any real way of knowing how our data will be stored or used once we hand it over.
00:40:08.040 The T-app said they were deleting verification selfies and government IDs, but we can see that they clearly did not because that information is now floating all over the Internet.
00:40:16.040 So a company might say, oh, yeah, we're following very strict privacy policies, but that doesn't mean they actually are.
00:40:22.540 And the T-app obviously wasn't.
00:40:25.360 Even companies with solid security protocols can still get hacked hacked.
00:40:29.760 And when the stakes are this high, you know, when what's being collected is tied to your government name and identity and address, these risks are not theoretical.
00:40:38.100 As more platforms require ID uploads and facial recognition, I think we're only going to see more problems with this.
00:40:44.780 And weak security practices are not just inconvenient, they're dangerous.
00:40:48.640 Not just for women, for all of us.
00:40:50.320 Last year, 404 Media reported that a company that verifies the identities of TikTok, Uber, and X users, sometimes by processing photographs of their faces and pictures of their driver's licenses, exposed a set of administrative credentials online for more than a year, potentially allowing hackers to access that sensitive data.
00:41:08.200 And this is happening as more social networks and pornography sites move toward an identity or age verification model in which users are required to upload their real identity documents to access certain services.
00:41:19.880 usually because laws require it in a misguided effort to protect children.
00:41:24.300 The T-breach highlights that identity services are themselves a prime target for hackers
00:41:28.920 and a major threat to all of our safety.
00:41:31.560 So if these are the same companies that we might all be using
00:41:34.100 if age verification becomes more widespread across the country,
00:41:37.560 we could all very well be at risk.
00:41:39.900 So as for the T-app, in the wake of the breach,
00:41:42.400 they say they have engaged third-party cybersecurity experts
00:41:45.580 and are working around the clock to secure systems.
00:41:48.320 In a statement, they said,
00:41:49.260 at this time, we have implemented additional security measures
00:41:51.680 and have fixed the data issue.
00:41:53.240 We are currently working to determine the full nature and scope
00:41:55.700 of the information involved in the incident.
00:41:57.920 Protecting our users' privacy and data is our highest priority.
00:42:01.200 We are taking every necessary step to ensure the security of our platform
00:42:04.380 and prevent further exposure.
00:42:06.560 This is tale as old as the internet itself.
00:42:09.320 Company rushes to build sloppy software,
00:42:11.900 pushes it to users with weak security,
00:42:13.540 gets burned by a data breach,
00:42:15.280 and then and only then invest in resources that actually protect their users.
00:42:20.860 But it shouldn't take a disaster like this one for a company to do the right thing
00:42:24.420 and prioritize user safety.
00:42:26.860 And this kind of thing honestly tells you a ton about a company's values
00:42:30.160 and the values of the people who work there.
00:42:32.760 So not to put too fine a point on it,
00:42:35.460 but I think if you currently have the T app, you should delete it.
00:42:39.400 I don't think that any company that lies to its users
00:42:41.920 while purporting to be all about keeping themselves
00:42:44.000 is a company that you can trust
00:42:45.660 even if they do clean up their act. 1.00
00:42:47.920 Women deserve so much better. 1.00
00:42:54.100 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech 1.00
00:42:56.160 or just want to say hi?
00:42:57.620 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
00:42:59.880 You can also find transcripts for today's episode
00:43:01.720 at tangody.com.
00:43:03.320 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me,
00:43:05.180 Bridget Todd.
00:43:06.080 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:43:08.780 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:43:10.840 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
00:43:13.460 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
00:43:15.460 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
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