00:00:53.240and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:58.760I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:01:02.380Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:01:09.920These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:01:13.740Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:21.360If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:01:27.080Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:35.740Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:02:12.180Probably not great because it feels like the whole world is on fire.
00:02:17.560This week, Texas passed over 600 new laws.
00:02:20.360And a good bit of those laws are based on the kind of escalating myths and disinformation, conspiracy theories, social media-fueled culture wars, and scaremongering that we've spent the last year breaking down on this very podcast.
00:02:34.320There is a lot to be mad about, so let's get into it.
00:02:38.340Now, a lot of people are rightfully talking about SB8, the law limiting abortion access in Texas, which we'll get into in just a moment.
00:02:45.800but that is not the only legislation in Texas that shows what happens when disinformation
00:02:50.700becomes codified into law. The Texas legislature also passed HB 3979, which bans school teachers
00:02:58.660from discussing systemic racism and current events in class. It also outright bans the
00:03:04.380teaching of the 1619 Project. As you'll recall, Nicole Hannah-Jones' 1619 Project became the
00:03:10.940target of right-wing racists. There's also a new law that allows anyone over the age of 21 to carry
00:03:16.760a gun without training or a license, as long as they're not already legally prevented from doing
00:03:21.680so. So basically, yes to guns, no to abortions. Then there's just a bunch of ridiculous culture0.80
00:03:27.860war stuff, like the so-called Stars-Bangled Banner Act, a law that requires professional
00:03:33.540sports teams in Texas with state funding to play the national anthem before games,
00:03:38.800which I'm sure, as the pandemic rages, is the most pressing issue on the minds of most Americans right now.
00:03:45.600So let's get into SB 8, Texas's new law that severely restricts abortion access.
00:03:51.660This law is bad, and it's what abortion advocates have been warning about for years.
00:03:57.440The law prevents abortions as early as six weeks into pregnancy.
00:04:01.060Now, many have been calling this a six-week abortion ban,
00:04:03.860but the way we're talking about it is really imprecise,
00:04:06.760And that seems like it might be by design.
00:04:09.420It isn't six weeks after you get a positive pregnancy test.
00:04:13.180It's actually six weeks after the first day of your last period.
00:04:17.140So that, quote, six weeks is actually four weeks after conception and just two weeks
00:04:24.860That's right, before many pregnancy tests that you'd buy in a store would even be able
00:04:28.960to tell you that you're pregnant at all.
00:04:31.260So that would only really leave you with two weeks to suspect that you may be pregnant,
00:04:34.980get a positive pregnancy test, make an appointment, have an ultrasound, wait 24 hours,
00:04:41.080and then have a second appointment with the same provider to comply with Texas law.
00:04:46.160So basically, the window to get a legal abortion is basically so narrow,
00:04:51.020it's closed before most people would even know they're pregnant in the first place.
00:04:55.380And this is only if your period comes like clockworks each cycle.
00:04:59.200But we know many people have irregular periods. It's a totally normal thing.
00:05:03.240But this law ignores that medical reality and is based instead on fictions about how our bodies work.
00:05:09.440Even the way these laws are framed, as so-called heartbeat bills restricting abortion when there is a fetal heartbeat, are distortions about the reality of pregnancy.
00:05:19.340The quote, fetal heartbeat talking point is just misinformation intended to deceive, and even the press falls for it by repeating it.
00:05:28.120At six weeks of fetal development, there is no heart to have a heartbeat.
00:05:33.240Doctors say the sound that Republican lawmakers are inaccurately calling a heartbeat is actually just the motion of an electrical pulse in a growth known as the fetal pull.
00:05:43.280But Republican lawmakers know that using this inaccurate language makes an early-stage abortion seem like a shameful, immoral choice, rather than just a commonplace medical procedure, which is why they use this deceptive language in the first place.
00:05:56.440So this law is definitely based on complete fictions and lies about our bodies and how they work.
00:06:18.380This law allows private individuals to sue abortion providers1.00
00:06:21.960or anyone who assists in providing an abortion for up to $10,000.
00:06:26.440It doesn't matter if the person suing is an abusive ex, a rapist, or just some random stranger with no connection to the person getting an abortion whatsoever.
00:06:35.460It essentially creates a bounty for abortion providers or people who assist in abortions.
00:06:40.140And yeah, it could even be used to sue an Uber driver who drives you to an abortion appointment.
00:06:44.580There's already a tip-line website asking people to turn in people they suspect of aiding in abortions.
00:06:50.580So yes, things are pretty bad, but honestly, this is nothing new.
00:06:55.580The anti-choice movement has always used lies and distortions to pass laws restricting abortion access.
00:07:03.180Well, it's because most people actually support abortion access.
00:07:07.300So anti-choice advocates, they have to turn to lies in order to sway the public.
00:07:12.460But y'all, this is not just about Texas.
00:07:15.580We've seen more laws restricting abortion access this year in 2021 than in any other previous year.
00:07:22.580This is according to a study by the Guttmacher Institute.
00:07:25.500It's just part of a national agenda to end abortion access in this country.
00:07:30.340This Texas law sets a dangerous legal precedent and could create a path for other states to make abortions unattainable to people who need them.
00:07:38.000And we expect to see similar bills introduced in states across the country.
00:07:41.720And honestly, it's not even really just about abortion.
00:07:45.280From laws attacking trans youth and immigrants and queer folks, this is yet another in a series of legislation fueled by distortion and lies.
00:07:54.440The power of lies and disinformation was on full display earlier this year when states were passing laws rolling back voting rights in response to the complete fiction that the 2020 election results were rigged because too many black and brown folks voted.
00:08:08.900Now, we told you about this earlier this year in an interview with Anoa Changa, a Georgia-based journalist,
00:08:14.040about how these attacks are not just about voting or abortion,
00:08:17.580but rather a coordinated network of attacks on marginalized people and our democracy.
00:08:22.680So let's revisit what happens and who gets harmed when disinformation is codified into law.
00:08:30.660We've talked a lot about disinformation this season, but what happens when lies and distortions actually become law?
00:08:37.560Well, that's exactly what's happening in Georgia.
00:08:40.180Trump's big lie that he won the election and it was being stolen from him
00:08:43.760is being used to fuel a sweeping new law that many advocates say creates barriers to voting
00:08:48.800that will make it harder for all Georgians to vote.
00:10:35.920It's so important that we talk about this law for what it is and the impact it will
00:10:39.780have on Georgians, which is something Anoa Changa knows firsthand.
00:10:44.440It was really rooted in self-determination for me.
00:10:47.060In 2017, Georgia was facing a closely watched Democratic primary for governor between Stacey
00:10:52.100Abrams, a Black woman who, if she had won, would have become the country's first Black
00:10:56.560woman governor, and Stacey Evans, a white Georgia state representative. Both candidates were speaking
00:11:02.020at Netroots Nation, the largest gathering of progressive political organizers in the country,
00:11:06.540which was being held in Atlanta. Now, something to know about Netroots is that there is always
00:11:10.920a protest. It's basically expected at this point. And speeches always get interrupted by shouting.
00:11:17.100It's happened to Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Martin O'Malley. It's a thing.
00:11:21.160In 2017, at Netroots, I was a part of a group of folks who, you know, led a protest to shut down a speech that was being given by Stacey Evans, who was at the time running against Stacey Abrams for governor.
00:11:35.580And a lot of people thought it was just a bunch of old Stacey Abrams supporters who were shutting down this white woman.
00:11:41.360But that like at the time, I wasn't even like a Stacey fan. I wasn't even I was like, I'll probably vote for her.0.98
00:11:46.720but it wasn't anything. And so many folks, what it was, was really about Stacey Evans was trying
00:11:52.700to be positioned as like the more progressive choice. And she had a bunch of votes, including1.00
00:11:58.200some along education, which were extremely problematic, which she was not being held
00:12:02.580accountable on. And that day at Netroots, she was speaking before Becky Pringle, who was then the
00:12:09.540vice president of the NEA, the National Education Association. So you're someone who has been
00:12:16.440pro-charter school, pro, you know, removing money out of education. You voted against the
00:12:23.500interests of teachers, students, families, unions. And you're speaking ahead of, like,
00:12:31.380this prominent national Black woman that has been this advocate for education.
00:12:35.500That's a NOAA alongside a group of Black women0.99
00:13:33.180And this was hugely instructive for Noah.
00:13:36.180Now, that didn't translate the way we thought it would, unfortunately, because no one in
00:13:41.420the media even cared to talk to us, to ask any of us about what happened, the way media
00:13:47.160reacted, like especially local media here in Georgia ran with a particular narrative.
00:13:51.420I mean, you even had like one article written that just because I knew someone who was on
00:13:57.120staff, senior staff at Stacey's campaign, we had worked together previously, that because
00:14:01.460of that previous work relationship, they put me up to it. Without understanding that also when
00:14:05.900you're talking about Black progressive political work, there's so few people in these spaces,
00:14:11.580whether you're working in Black orgs or white-led orgs, it's just not that many of us. We all end
00:14:16.500up either knowing each other directly or having people in common. So that experience really taught
00:14:21.460me about the power and necessity for telling our own stories, making sure our voices were being
00:14:27.180heard. Today, Anoa is a pretty prolific independent journalist who covers elections and local
00:14:32.420politics in Georgia. But instead of covering them like a horse race between two politicians,
00:14:37.380she centers the people impacted by the policies, people whose stories are often overlooked,
00:14:42.640in favor of stories about political point scoring and posturing. And when it comes to the new voting
00:14:47.420legislation in Georgia, this also means pointing out a lot of lies and distortions. When we're
00:14:53.100looking at what's happening here in this law, like I was saying, yes, you have the lies from
00:14:57.900the different state representatives and state senators. You have the lies from the various
00:15:03.160election officials in varied capacities. But you have also our governor, who was the former
00:15:11.800secretary of state, who is known for his own shenanigans and foolishness. But I mean, he's0.96
00:15:17.020someone who actually lied ahead of his own election for governor. The weekend ahead of his
00:15:20.900election for governor, he lied and said that Stacey Abrams' campaign and Democrats were trying
00:15:26.200to hack the state of Georgia, which was not true. An investigation later revealed that it was not
00:15:31.260true. And he has never been held accountable to that. So we know Brian Kemp lies on the regular.
00:15:36.120Brad Raffensperger also has fell into this hole of trying to appease his party
00:15:40.240and placating and twisting rhetoric. It's one thing to deal with and be able to point out a
00:15:47.900bold-faced lie, which we've seen in the testimony from Rudy Giuliani when he was in these various
00:15:52.940hearings in Michigan and here in Georgia, which we've seen, unfortunately, even in some of the
00:15:57.800testimony or some of the conversations happening in chambers in the passage of these bills by
00:16:03.100Republican elected officials. And I often harp on the Secretary of State because everyone has,
00:16:09.020in terms of national media, has like lionized him and made him this very important figure.
00:16:13.560But at the same time, he gives credence and he finds ways to give legitimacy, even though he has certified the election, even though he has acknowledged there is no widespread fraud, even though he acknowledged that this is the most secure election George has ever had, all these other things.
00:16:30.520He will still say things that leave open the door, that act like there is legitimate concern.
00:16:37.520I mean, just even the widespread reporting of fraud that was happening, it was an issue.
00:16:42.560At some point, it's not just simply that people don't know the process and don't understand what's going on.
00:16:47.240It's people are being willfully obtuse.
00:16:51.260As I have for more than 25 years, I will stand with my fellow Georgians in pursuit of fairness.
00:16:57.300You see, I did so as a college student, speaking in the shadow of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr.
00:17:04.080I did so as Democratic leader of the House of Representatives, and now I will do so as a private citizen.
00:17:10.380In the 2018 gubernatorial election in Georgia, Stacey Abrams acknowledged that her opponent, Brian Kemp, would be the next governor of Georgia.
00:17:18.120I watched her speech from Atlanta, where, full disclosure, I spent time in the state knocking doors for her campaign.
00:17:23.920During the election, Brian Kemp was Georgia's Secretary of State,
00:17:27.160which meant that he was in charge of overseeing his own election.
00:17:30.660As Secretary of State, Kemp purged over 1.4 million inactive voters
00:17:34.900with low-income and Black Georgians being the most likely to have their registrations canceled.
00:17:40.140He also oversaw 53,000 voter registrations being put on hold
00:17:44.440thanks to Georgia's exact match policy that flags registrations from voters
00:17:48.880with any kind of name discrepancy in state databases.
00:17:52.600So if you registered for your first learner's permit with your first and middle name,
00:17:56.280and then registered to vote with just your first name, you would be flagged.
00:18:00.520According to the Associated Press, nearly 70% of those voter registrations on hold were Black voters,
00:18:06.160despite the state's population only being about 32% Black.
00:18:09.840Now because of all this, Abrams has said the 2018 gubernatorial election was stolen from the Georgia voters.
00:18:15.920After the race, she formed Fair Fight, an organization aimed at increasing voter turnout
00:18:20.800and ensuring that all votes are accurately counted.
00:18:23.760It was hugely successful, and their work is often credited
00:18:26.820with securing the historic Democratic wins in Georgia this past election.
00:19:15.660And so while that's not like this, exactly the same as the outright boldface lying, like saying like, oh, there was massive fraud happening in Fulton County or whatever.
00:19:26.480At the same time, it still lends credence. It still gives legitimacy.
00:19:30.980And because they did have the one brave stand, which really was a matter of I don't want to go to jail because that's hella illegal.
00:19:38.460Like, I mean, let's just be real. Like Brad, Brad, Brad did not. Brad did everything else in his power.
00:19:43.300brad didn't want to go to jail because that's like telling someone to go find some votes this
00:19:47.480ain't scandal like that's jail right like this real life and so but they will they will still
00:19:54.100craft narratives they still will shift things that still give support and then people who are like oh
00:19:59.480well he's the secretary of state he's an elected official he should get some deference will cover
00:20:03.520and report what he says and does as if it's legitimate concern when in fact it's really just
00:20:08.660also in the furtherance of the Republican agenda, which we have seen very clearly over this past
00:20:16.180year. But I mean, you and I, you know, as folks who have been digging in and focusing and looking
00:20:21.460at the scourge that is disinformation, have seen how deeply entrenched and widespread it has been,
00:20:28.520particularly over the past several years, and the very deep digital networks that already exist,
00:20:34.660and liberals and the left and progressives
00:21:02.340You see this coordinated GOP attack on voting rights and really on democracy at this point,
00:21:09.840when we are having people lie and having those lies enshrined into law.
00:21:15.520And I mean, folks can say it happens in other capacities, but what's happening right now
00:21:19.360in terms of elections and election reform and how we are treating false allegations
00:21:26.240as valid considerations for passing law,
00:21:30.240it's a very scary precedent that's being set right now.
00:21:34.100I mean, it's so sad, but that's really been Trump's legacy.
00:21:38.220After the election, I saw this poll from R Street
00:21:40.400that said that two-thirds of Republicans
00:21:42.040say the 2020 presidential election was invalid.
00:21:45.280And I think that's kind of the point of this kind of disinformation,
00:21:47.940to make people really distrust our democratic process
00:21:50.640to the point where they just sort of check out.
00:21:52.420Even in states where Trump won, right, we're still seeing that happen and unfold, right? Like in Iowa, we're still seeing a Republican majority in Iowa, even though Trump won that state. Let's take a quick break.
00:26:20.560There's so much with so much focus on Trump and resistance and getting Trump out of office that these state legislatures, these state capitals and governor seats, we've ignored the way in which that very and deeply entrenched rhetoric has permeated at the state level and is backed and funded by some of the usual suspects that we've been talking about over the last however many decades that fund and get behind these types of work.
00:26:48.720And what was really interesting, someone sent me an article recently that talked about like some of the major anti-abortion folks are also getting in the fight behind H.R.1.
00:26:58.840Like so we also see I had an article a couple of weeks back in Truthout just talking about how like when we're talking about voting rights and we're talking about what's happening in these fights, it literally isn't we're talking about saving democracy.
00:27:10.480It's not just about voting rights. Right. Like it's about all these other opportunities and entry points.
00:27:14.600And we're seeing some of the worst legislation that is really denying people's humanity and right to exist when we see like the trans sports bills being passed in various places, when we see these various attacks on, you know, reproductive rights and freedom.
00:27:31.220And so we really have this much broader attack happening on democracy.
00:27:36.040And there are these various levels of lies.
00:27:38.480I mean, just thinking about the way the anti-abortion stuff happens, like so much of that is based on fear mongering around mistruths and disinformation as well.
00:27:49.820Right. So like it permeates across so much.
00:27:52.800In conversations about disinformation, it's tempting to focus on foreign bad actors like Russia.
00:27:57.200But sometimes that can lead us to overlook the massive coordination of domestic bad actors right here in our own country and the powerful networks of online distortions they have at their disposal.
00:28:07.180We spent so much time in 2017 post-election focusing on Russian interference, right, and Russian amplification of disinformation, but never looking at the disinformation itself, the domestic disinformation.
00:28:19.220And I think now, and I really appreciate what you've been doing, so many people have been sounding the alarm on the danger of what is happening domestically. I think now maybe folks are starting to understand, but it's still being limited to Trump's big lie, which Trump's big lie is really having a grip on our national politic right now.
00:28:41.300But part of the reason why it's able to do so is because these networks have been able to thrive and have existed for so long and they're so deep and intense.
00:28:50.740And so like it's it takes it's a lot to like peel back those layers.
00:28:56.080I don't think people understand about like how people get targeted with disinformation, particularly when they come after black, Latino and other folks of color through the various mediums.
00:29:06.220Like I know, you know, Latino folks have talked to me about like the use of WhatsApp.
00:29:10.880I think some Asian folks too have talked about the use of WhatsApp groups, which are very common with both communities in terms of how they share and disseminate information. So what you end up happening is you might have somebody's auntie or whoever, who sees like this post or sees this thing. It's like, oh my God, did you see this? And then it spreads like wildfire, but like that information is not actually accurate, right?
00:29:32.020So we there are these other ways that is very insidious and infiltrating trusted spaces that somehow we have to figure out how do we help people become, you know, better sharers of information and really like see through because there are some things that might kind of make sense.
00:29:51.520That's like what's really tricky, too. Right. People will say things that might make sense.
00:29:56.320like let's take for example the voter id stuff right so in the georgia law you know there's a
00:30:02.100new voter id requirement for folks who are voting absentee ballot and it will be like well what's
00:30:07.940wrong you need by id for everything else you need id when you do this yes you need id you need to
00:30:13.080prove who you are when you register but once you've registered like why do i have to keep showing you
00:30:17.620the picture itself right like you need id you need id when you go here you need id like so people will
00:30:24.600do this thing. And they're like, well, that makes sense. But the rhetoric, the rationalization has
00:30:29.180to do with fraud when the fraud has never been proven to be an actual issue, right? Like, so
00:30:35.440they, I remember, I remember doing some research during the election and like in Alabama, when
00:30:40.920Alabama was adapting its voter ID law, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund looked back 12 years prior to
00:30:46.980the year when they were trying to enact the law, trying to see how many fraud cases there were.
00:30:50.180there was only like one or two in a 12 year period. Right. And so like they will use the
00:30:55.500presence of like one or two and they'll be like, well, see, there's an issue because this one or
00:31:00.220two happened. Or someone made a comment about people changing ballots, but it was a Republican
00:31:05.740postal man in West Virginia that was changing people's request ballots. But it was caught.
00:31:12.420Right. That's the other thing. Right. The very rare instances where things happen,
00:31:16.480the people doing it are caught like almost right away, right? Because of the mechanisms already
00:31:23.460built into the system. So media frustrates me too, because how they report these things as if
00:31:28.860they're valid considerations on all sides, when really the only side we need to be thinking about
00:31:33.460is like democracy, right? And what does it mean to uphold and protect democracy? And how could
00:31:39.140you ever justify and rationalize and say you're protecting democracy by keeping people out?
00:31:43.340Yeah, I mean, you can't, you know, in a democracy, you want to expand voting access, you want to make it easier and get rid of barriers that people have to vote, not enact more. And it was really disingenuous to see a statement today, I think from Kev, who was like, you know, oh, we're widening the ability for people to vote, we're expanding it.
00:32:05.980And it's just a lie. I mean, there is not a way that you can look at that and see the see the kinds of barriers that this legislation puts in place and try with a straight face to say that you're actually trying to make it easier for people to vote.
00:32:20.280If that's the case, why are you threatening souls to the polls? Why have you made it so to make it harder for people to give water to folks standing in long lines? Part of it to me is shocking how they can seize on something that might have a nugget of truth to try to paint a wider portrait of what's happening.
00:32:40.040To your point earlier about the networks and how coordinated this is, before you and I got on this call, I was doing a little search about what am I seeing in Republican or right-wing spaces? What's the conversation online? And what you said about, oh, you need an ID to go buy liquor. You need an ID to do X, Y, Z. Why is it bad to have to need an ID to vote?
00:33:03.640it was interesting to me that in some large Facebook groups that are not even necessarily
00:33:10.700like explicitly political, I saw a bunch of memes this morning kind of making that point.
00:33:15.220And they make the point in a way that seems to make sense. You're like, okay, you know,
00:33:19.400I get the point that's being made and it seems non-controversial. But when you think about it,
00:33:24.180you're like, oh, wait, in context, that's actually really messed up. And then, you know,
00:33:29.060So it's just interesting to me how how there are these networks online that are ready to echo and amplify the distortions of folks on the right about voting and disseminate them into groups of people who might not even be necessarily primed to be looking at like politically charged content.
00:33:48.040But this is exactly how we saw the Stop the Steal stuff spread, right? And the J-racist insurrection. These people have been primed, right? This is why you have so many, quote unquote, normal, mild-mannered folks. They've been all wrapped up in the QAnon and whatever, because again, this stuff is overlooked. It's not seen as important to engage with.0.80
00:34:08.220I just remember some years ago just nonsense that would happen on Twitter and then people be like why do you even waste time debunking that like what's the point like I've learned there are probably more effective ways to do things than having one-on-one arguments with dumb folks on Twitter but at the same time like when you have people with large platforms who are engaging in some of this you know both sides or these red herrings and stuff it is dangerous because they are then informing and engaging so many other people.
00:34:35.520but like with these various groups i mean i've seen people talking about like the yoga groups
00:34:40.560like some of them even more like just basic spiritual type places that unfortunately end
00:34:45.040up being uh places where there was a lot of widespread covet 19 misinformation being spread
00:34:50.400as well and not necessarily because the people sharing it themselves are malicious or trying
00:34:55.640to fool people like some of it made sense to people but like whoever's putting it out there
00:35:01.400and creating it, knowing that people are going to pick it up. Like, um, I think it was earlier
00:35:06.580this year, uh, there's actually someone being charged by the FBI, which I don't really know
00:35:10.840how I feel about this, but at the same time, it is a very interesting conversation to have.
00:35:15.540There was someone being charged by the FBI and part of it was because they were disseminating
00:35:19.020misleading information, targeting predominantly, um, black and I think voters of color, but they
00:35:24.700were sending out what made it seem like you could vote by using a text code. If you couldn't get to
00:35:30.940the polls. And think about it, right? Like people were doing innovative things to help people vote
00:35:35.260in the middle of a pandemic. So if you're someone who's not very politically savvy, who doesn't know
00:35:39.580that you can't vote by text or by tweeting at someone, I mean, like to me and you, that might
00:35:44.760seem like, duh, of course you can't do that. But to somebody who doesn't know any better, who
00:35:48.700actually thinks that that could be a real legitimate option and their way of also engaging0.99
00:35:53.500the process in the middle of a pandemic, that's kind of fucked up. And so like this person, I0.97
00:35:59.020guess got investigated and the other folks in this like group chat they were in also got
00:36:03.720investigated but they literally hadn't had a chat they were surveilling these multiple different
00:36:08.520groups in different spaces and coordinating releasing these memes and stuff right and so
00:36:14.000like i i mean that type of stuff has been happening and so to my point about the russia stuff like
00:36:20.480what was happening with the russia stuff and its place in the conversation it really overshadowed
00:36:26.880the mass volume of what was happening domestically. And so people had years now unchecked to perfect
00:36:34.720that domestic system. And we're really seeing it rear its head in coordination with just the
00:36:40.480regular conservative, you know, legislative organizing that already happens. Like, you know,
00:36:47.060you used to, people used to talk about, like, you would see the ALEC bills that basically was the
00:36:51.300same boilerplate language in multiple states across the country. They're a little bit more
00:36:55.480savvy now because we're seeing similar things happening across the country and it's clearly
00:37:00.600not a coincidence. Can you tell us some of what's in this law? Some of the most insidious parts of
00:37:06.180the law here in Georgia, it removes the Secretary of State as the head of the State Board of
00:37:11.360Elections. State Board of Elections is a five-person body. The General Assembly appoints
00:37:17.220two of those people. The General Assembly will now appoint a majority three of the five with
00:37:22.680the removal of the secretary of state as the chair. So our Republican-controlled legislature
00:37:27.160will now, in effect, control the state election board, which the state election board sets down
00:37:33.740election purview regulations for the entire state, which is how we select our members of
00:37:39.000a general assembly. And there's a brilliant lawyer here that I follow and really look to
00:37:43.800for guidance, Sarah Tindall-Gazal, and she was just pointing out in one of the hearings how0.88
00:37:48.440how ridiculous it is. One of, you know, the proponent, Bill's proponents, Barry Fleming,
00:37:53.500was like, well, I mean, the governor appoints the entire board of regents, the governor appoints
00:37:58.560the transportation board, and she's just like, okay, I guess I got to explain this to you,
00:38:03.040but that's fine. The governor appoints those bodies, but you all appointing the people who
00:38:09.240set the rules for how you all hold office isn't really like you're appointing your own referees
00:38:16.700and then we're expecting them to hold you accountable.
00:42:22.300And, you know, when I got some quotes when I was writing the article, like from a piece
00:42:26.180the poll folks, one of the things they said was, we see this as a way of incentivizing civic
00:42:30.520engagement in the general community. So we'll provide it to anyone, right? And I know that
00:42:34.820several lawyers have advised people that that was the best way to handle it as well. But now,
00:42:39.920it doesn't matter who you're giving it to, regardless, just the very act of being close
00:42:44.780to the poll location, they have now decided to criminalize. And that is a very clear attack
00:42:49.120on a very real way at something that is very commonly known to be seen as an added value
00:42:56.160and benefit to communities. And so we're seeing this a very real attack, not just simply on
00:43:01.660democracy, but on our participation as, you know, people of color who are exercising and leveraging
00:43:07.180that power. And, you know, a lot of folks are comparing this to Jim Crow. And I'd really be
00:43:11.820interested in talking to some historians just to learn more about that post, that early, the pre,
00:43:17.480you know, 50s, 60s civil rights era. So like, you know, the late 1800s to like the 1940s, 1950s,
00:43:23.240Because it seems like in some ways we're really in that period, like post-Reconstruction, where we saw very blatant, active attempts to strip Black political power from communities.0.55
00:43:33.320This attempt to strip Black communities of power via curbing access to voting is nothing new.
00:43:39.040After the Civil War, during Reconstruction, Black folks were attacked by racist poll taxes and literacy tests and other barriers to make it harder for us to vote.
00:43:47.280According to the Brennan Center, even though these laws are over a century old, as recently as 2012, 46 states allowed for voter challenges, laws that allowed any private citizen to challenge the eligibility of prospective voters on or before Election Day.
00:44:03.380Now, these kinds of barriers to voting have never gone down without a fight.
00:44:07.420Organizations like Black Voters Matter, led by Cliff Albright, have already challenged Georgia's new law on the grounds that it will unfairly hurt Black and brown voters.
00:44:16.040So it's going to be interesting about like how some of this stuff even stands up in court. New Georgia Project, Black Voters Matter Fund and RISE all filed. They filed a joint suit the same night that Kemp signed the bill. So it's going to be interesting to see how that moves forward and unfolds.
00:44:32.040folds. But the voter challenges, so basically, and this is like something that used to happen
00:44:37.600in the old days too, like you could just go in or really white people could just go in and be like,
00:44:42.460no, that person can't vote for whatever reason or whatever. And you would literally have to have
00:44:47.200like a white person, like someone come vouch for you. And so it's something very similar,
00:44:50.800like they can come in and just challenge anyone for any reason. And that is very
00:44:56.560intimidating. It's very stressful. That is something that actually is very insidious.
00:45:02.040It also kind of feels like an attack on some aspects of the Black way of life.
00:45:06.740I know I have older women in my life who I call auntie and drop off mail and groceries and prescriptions for,
00:45:12.860who are not actually my blood relatives.0.89
00:45:15.620And I wouldn't be able to touch their ballots.
00:45:19.160You can't have other people collecting your ballots for you.
00:45:21.900And again, that might even sound logical to people, but you have some folks.
00:45:26.300What about people who can't get around and get out, right?
00:45:29.760Like, we all know folks. So, like, if I know people in my general, like, life, unless I'm directly related in a household with them, I can't touch their ballot for them. Right. But if they don't have anyone, and a lot of us live in families and community like that. Right. Where we have Ms. So-and-so who, no, I'm technically not related to her, but she's still my auntie or she's still my grandma or whoever. And it's not anything nefarious.
00:45:53.760nefarious. For Anoa, the root of this is so obvious. It's racist. The root of it all is0.98
00:46:00.400they are afraid that they won't win elections unless they do this. It's not like, hi, I should
00:46:05.700adopt better policies, or maybe I need to not be so extremist in our positions. It's like, no,
00:46:11.440we just need to do whatever we can to retain and maintain power and make sure them darkies don't.1.00
00:46:17.560because that's really what it is really what it is like you know we talk about it but it's like1.00
00:46:25.820you and I both know what's up right like it's so clear no like no one wants to come out and say it
00:46:31.660they don't say it they dance around it but it's clear that's what's happening anybody anybody can
00:49:54.100Kemp, flanked by a bunch of white male Georgia state legislators, signed the law under a painting of a slave plantation.
00:50:02.320When folks are pointing to Kemp signing that bill under a picture of not just any plantation, right?
00:50:11.120Like what someone, several folks have just pierced out the history of the plantation that's depicted a very brutal, atrocious, you know, that held like, I think, upwards of 100 slaves like that.
00:50:26.700And then, I mean, also, you have him flanked by six white men, which I believe, just take a quick glance, and that's like six people who are above House and Senate leadership.0.57
00:50:37.460I mean, the fact that, you know, the leadership of our government is all white men in a rapidly diversifying state like Georgia is quite telling.0.71
00:50:47.520I mean, that's the other thing, right? Like there is this real fear that they are losing power and that's at the heart of it.0.99
00:50:53.120But we know what happens when white fear controls policy. Right. We've seen it.
00:50:59.020We've seen, you know, folks can act like, oh, the KKK or white supremacy is just some extreme outside thing.
00:51:07.760But unfortunately, a lot of those same tenets, a lot of those same attitudes influence when we're looking at the way in which people are charged with various crimes or we're looking at the decisions that are being made.
00:51:18.400We're looking at the way in which our children are treated in public schools.
00:51:22.020We see the very deep rooted nature of white supremacy across so many facets of society.
00:51:27.580So we can't just, you know, it's not enough to just say this is Trump's big lie.
00:51:31.440Like it's so much more than that happening.
00:51:34.080And I'm just really like excited for the work that you're doing and the conversations you've
00:51:39.280been having around disinformation, because we really need to understand how these systems
00:51:45.920are operating and what role do we all have to play.
00:51:49.600And we really should take that role seriously.
00:51:51.740I really do believe that we all have a role to play in fighting against disinformation.
00:51:55.340It doesn't matter if you are aligned ideologically.
00:51:58.040If you're a conservative, if you're someone who believes in more moderate or conservative
00:52:01.840values, you should want people telling the truth.
00:58:51.480The bill attacking abortion access in Texas is just one more plank of a coordinated attack on our democracy and the rights of marginalized people.
00:58:58.940And it's time for all of us to fight back.
00:59:01.660Go to tangoti.com slash donate to support abortion funds in Texas.
00:59:10.620Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
00:59:14.300You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
00:59:16.580You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
00:59:19.920There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
00:59:22.660It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:59:25.380Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:59:27.420Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
00:59:30.040Michael Amato is our contributing producer.