00:00:38.460and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:43.680I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:00:47.300Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:00:51.020abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:00:54.640These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:00:58.720Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:10.580There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:18.700I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:21.440welcome to there are no girls on the internet where we explore the intersection of identity
00:01:28.260social media technology and the internet experience and this is another installment
00:01:33.360of our weekly news roundup where we summarize internet news that you might have missed
00:01:38.240joey thank you so much for being here hey bridget thanks for having me okay so i have to start out
00:01:44.940with a question do you have any tech related pet peeves you might have guessed this is like
00:01:50.960me asking you so that i can gripe about mine but i want to hear yours first joey
00:01:55.300oh bridget uh so many um why do you think i'm on the show uh but
00:02:02.820okay this this is like a very small like in the grand scheme of things pet peeve
00:02:09.380um but lately i've been really really annoyed with the spotify algorithm
00:02:13.600uh just because i don't know if y'all have tried like they have this new not new i guess it's been
00:02:20.320around for like a minute but if you type in like angry mix or like happy mix like it'll come up
00:02:27.600with like a collection of songs that they have created for you um and it just like hasn't been
00:02:36.320good I've got some really weird ones I think especially I don't know I think I maybe it's
00:02:41.420also just like I like I listen to a very wide variety of music so I feel like a lot of times
00:02:46.120too like a lot of it will get like mixed up together when I don't like it'll it'll label
00:02:49.900things in certain genres that they aren't just because I've been listening to it a lot I don't
00:02:54.140know I've anyways I've been very annoyed with the Spotify algorithm lately I'm not and also I've
00:02:59.920realized it's been very hard to find like new music to listen to because it just keeps recommending
00:03:04.460the same artists that I already listen to like when I'm looking for new music um but you know
00:03:10.720it's fun if I like I'm just trying to listen to songs that I like but like I think especially
00:03:14.580trying to find new stuff now just because of this new like these mixes that are tailored
00:03:19.940specifically for you it makes it so much harder to find new stuff which i i don't like um yeah
00:03:26.900so i and and i don't know there's so many issues with spotify just as a company and like the way
00:03:31.920that like the streaming sort of network industry works that i i it's annoying it's very annoying
00:03:39.260you have like activated something in me because i could talk about this all day so i i think i
00:03:44.380This is just, I haven't done any research into this because it's just banter, but I think I know what's happening with your playlist, which I think that Spotify is probably, if I had to say, deprioritizing human people who make curated playlists and curated recommendations.
00:04:02.660I know that they used to have big teams of humans working at Spotify that made playlists, and I know that they are using AI to do some of that now, so I wonder if that had a hand in why the playlists aren't as good.
00:04:17.320i also think like with play with like when you're looking for new music you want you when you listen
00:04:22.640to a song you want the next algorithmically generated song to be like not the same artist
00:04:28.720or a song that you've heard before but but spiritually the same like i know exactly what
00:04:34.260you mean it's hard to put into words like i want it to be like you're looking for something it's
00:04:39.480very hard to verbalize but you do you know what i mean yeah it's just weird i think especially with
00:05:13.500i i don't know what's going on i totally i totally think you're right though i think it i think it's
00:05:18.740a lot of the ai algorithm sort of stuff regardless of because i you know what i have a lot of friends
00:05:27.300that make great playlists i think i make a pretty decent playlist like there's there's clearly
00:05:32.520something's up something's up it's a lot of like tiktok music too oh i've noticed the same thing
00:05:38.240something else I've really taken umbrage with on Spotify is how bad their podcast player is like
00:05:46.860I have Spotify premium it I have to say it is where I listen to my podcasts but I am almost in
00:05:52.920like a toxic relationship with Spotify's podcast player you'll try to rewind it 30 seconds and
00:05:59.220it's like oh did you want to start playing a totally different podcast oh it's so weird yeah
00:06:05.080um there's certain shows that they like showed the ads are different like how they
00:06:10.280I yeah it's really annoying it for you know for a company that is like not monopolized I guess a
00:06:18.620lot of people use Apple Music like other platforms that really like taken over this market like they
00:06:23.300don't operate well and I don't know I keep reading things too and I think this might lead into what
00:06:28.100you're gonna talk about but I keep reading things too about like so much of our music and media and
00:06:33.280stuff that used to have like analog copies like now people aren't collecting because i was like
00:06:37.860i i can't even think like i don't even think about the option of leaving spotify because i'm like
00:06:43.620i have all of my i've had spotify since i was like like in high school like i have like all
00:06:48.740of my music there um i don't have hard copies of those you know songs that i like i don't want to
00:06:55.600lose all of that yeah i have a love hate relationship with analog so i i'm an analog
00:07:01.200person like because I am a woman of a certain age I was really into record collecting like most
00:07:08.620like hip music people were at a certain era and let me tell you I have had to I have so I have a
00:07:16.180massive record collection in my house I have had to schlep this collection to multiple apartments
00:07:20.720when I move multiple cities had I and I started collecting records before streaming was ever a
00:07:28.640So I never imagined that I would live in a world where you could just get every single piece of music that Devo ever put out at the touch of a fingertip. So it's like, no, I need to have every vinyl that they've ever made. That's the only way I'll ever be able to hear it. And then you have to shuffle them from like New York to San Francisco to apartment to apartment. Like, yeah.
00:07:49.520But that said, like, as media companies and streaming companies delete stuff, like I've been hearing more and more about like, oh, you bought this game?
00:07:59.260Well, guess what? Like, we can actually just delete it. It kind of feels like in 2024, like, what does it mean to own something digitally if you never really own it in a real sense, if the company that you bought it from can just like take it away?
00:08:15.200And I don't know, part of me, especially as Netflix and Hulu like raise their prices, part of me is like, I'm going to have to dust off that old DVD player because I have a lot of those too.
00:08:26.660And that actually, it does lead to my big tech pet peeve that I have like just been enraged by.
00:10:21.340Like, as soon as they got rid of the, this is my back end, you know, all the technology these days.
00:10:27.540But, like, I feel like once they got rid of the home screen on, like, iPhones or, like, the little home button, home screen button on iPhones, like, that was it.
00:11:14.800I thought I was, like, you know, sending high-pressure, high-stakes emails.
00:11:20.340Mind you, I was in my early 20s, so I definitely was not sending anything of any import.
00:11:24.020But something about the clickable button made me feel like I was really doing business.
00:11:28.800Yeah, there was a thing about BlackBerrys, too, that I feel, I don't know, at least.
00:11:32.440So my understanding, I was a child when Blackberries were a thing, so I always associated it with, like, it being my dad's, like, serious work phone that he had to use.
00:11:45.020So I was like, in my mind, like, Blackberries are, like, this serious, like, I am doing, I am going to work, you know, what a child assumes an adult's, you know, job and career is like.
00:11:57.760Bridget, have you seen the Blackberry movie?
00:21:17.840yeah yeah i know and like i mean to clarify what i said before too i think i think
00:21:26.280honestly like for you know obviously tiktok itself and i i agree with you like tiktok is
00:21:31.340not a lot of messed up stuff but at the same time it is this platform for particularly young people
00:21:39.120and uh you know like he said in the video i i think you know it's part of the reason tiktok
00:21:45.920gets that gets uh targeted about these other platforms is because it is a primarily younger
00:21:50.940audience and yeah we've seen all these like movements you know tiktok may not necessarily
00:21:57.020treat those movements well and treat those you know kind of voices well on their app but it is
00:22:01.600a platform for a lot of these more progressive movements that i think especially like you know
00:22:06.040this past year uh and that is something that there there are people that have stakes in
00:22:15.440silencing that yeah I mean I can't sort of turn off the part of the conversation that does feel
00:22:23.000sort of like hand-wringing about like what are the youth doing on their phones and like I am a huge
00:22:28.920proponent of you know safer digital experiences particularly for young people but people are
00:22:35.720describing the views and attitudes of young people in this way that it's like oh well it must be the
00:22:44.100app that is making them feel this way. And it's like, it couldn't possibly be that young people
00:22:48.820are smart and empathetic and they've looked at the facts. I'm like, they have a point of view.
00:22:53.040It's like, it just seems, it just seems very disingenuous to make it seem like TikTok is the
00:22:59.420reason why young people are, you know, organizing for a full ceasefire and things like that. Like
00:23:05.780it just, it just feels very belittling to their perspective and their point of view. And I just,
00:23:13.820i don't i don't do you know do you know what i'm saying i don't know if i'm being clear no i i
00:23:17.020totally agree i mean i think it's a kind of like tale as old as time there's always you know the
00:23:23.040latest technology or like the latest thing it's always you know this this thing is exposing our
00:23:28.740kids to this new idea it's never like hey there's just this idea out there that is appealing to
00:23:33.760people because you know xyz like i don't know but but again yeah like this is the same thing with
00:23:40.040every kind of new technology every kind of new art form um not to say that TikTok is necessarily
00:23:48.680an art form but I don't know like any new kind of platform or method of like communication this
00:23:53.440is kind of the conversation that is had over and over and over again and like a there's that and
00:24:00.660then b I think they're genuinely I mean I don't want to say I don't know what is up because I do
00:24:06.400think i know what is up but it is it is so weird like with the calls for a ceasefire i think with
00:24:12.860like previously when like the black lives matter protests were kind of in a full swing like
00:24:16.520every single time there's sort of this idea of like oh this well like my kid couldn't actually
00:24:22.140think this or like right general public couldn't think this because it is against what the status
00:24:27.660quo is or against what is like the most convenient kind of point to i don't know like it is sort of
00:24:34.920part of the thing that is like politically most convenient um this that kind of argument is
00:24:40.680connected to so many things i think that's where you get like what like nancy pelosi telling
00:24:45.560protesters to like go back to russia or whatever because they're like agents of the kremlin like
00:24:51.260it was some they were talking about palestine which is a totally different like i don't know
00:24:55.180like it this it's this idea that people in general can't think for themselves and especially young
00:25:01.080people and especially progressive young people um and i think that is not surprising and i don't
00:25:06.900think it's going to stop necessarily but yeah it is like clearly that's the root of the problem0.50
00:25:11.120not the fact that tiktok is like poisoning people's minds yeah it's so insulting we have
00:25:18.000talked about a tiktok ban on the show before and so i think folks probably know how i feel about it
00:25:22.560you know just like any social media platform in 2024 there are definitely valid concerns about
00:25:28.760TikTok. You know, anybody who tells you that there are not security concerns with TikTok just
00:25:34.380doesn't know the facts. There were reports that TikTok accessed journalists' information in an
00:25:39.320attempt to identify which employees were leaking information about the app. TikTok actually
00:25:44.460admitted to doing this, according to an internal email. But when asked about it directly, TikTok
00:25:49.680CEO responded that, oh, well, spying is not the right way to describe that, which, like,
00:25:54.380it did sound like spying to me. So TikTok doesn't. I don't want to make it seem like TikTok has like
00:25:59.560a squeaky clean record because they do not. However, this is not the kind of opposition
00:26:03.920that lawmakers are levying against TikTok. They're saying that TikTok is a big national security
00:26:09.880threat because it is a Chinese owned company and the platform is being used to like steal American
00:26:16.280data and feed it to the Chinese Communist Party. So not only is there no smoking gun or no evidence0.85
00:26:22.300of this being the case, it's also just like a plainly xenophobic thing to say. Like the way
00:26:29.680that lawmakers have spoken to the head of TikTok makes it clear to me that there is some obvious
00:26:34.920xenophobia going on. And so I think that lawmakers have sensed that people want them to crack down
00:26:41.560on big tech. And I think that lawmakers want to look tough on China always. Right. And so going
00:26:47.300after TikTok as the singular boogeyman is a way for them to kill two birds with one stone.
00:26:52.300And really do that. I also think that the reality here is that the United States wants to remain the sort of major big player when it comes to big tech. They don't like the idea of other countries, you know, becoming major players in the big tech landscape and the social media landscape. They want it to just be for, you know, your Mark Zuckerbergs and your Elon Musks of the world and not your showsy shoes of the world. And I think that's what it really comes down to.
00:27:19.660yeah definitely i mean they've been very transparent about the fact that it is more
00:27:24.080to do with china than it has to do with like protecting people's data or whatever which like
00:27:29.740i don't know yeah like facebook's probably doing just as much harm if not more
00:27:33.540and uh i mean that that clip of the like senate hearing where they just kept asking the guy if
00:27:40.900he was part of the chinese part like what's your connection to china right but really what's your
00:27:45.920connection to china like it's so fucked up the fact that people like still think this is about0.82
00:27:52.160genuine safety concerns and not just yeah xenophobia like after that i think just kind of0.94
00:27:58.920goes to show how messed up a lot of this is but yeah again i like i it is sort of the the double
00:28:04.480edge or the the sort of two-sided issue of like this there's still all these issues with this
00:28:11.000platform. They've still done a lot of messed up stuff, but also like clearly this is not coming
00:28:16.480from a good place or from a genuine concern for people's safety. Because if it were coming from
00:28:23.160a genuine concern for all of our data privacy, we would have some sort of meaningful data privacy
00:28:28.560legislation, which we in the United States do not. It does not begin and end with banning TikTok.
00:28:34.940All of our data is essentially on sale for whoever wants it, including China. Only a few weeks ago,
00:28:41.000Biden signed an executive order that limited the sale of some of our data in some ways to,
00:28:47.740quote, countries of concern, including China. But as Wired points out, this executive order
00:28:52.720only means that U.S. data brokers need to take some steps and some security requirements during
00:29:00.040transfer, many of which were already required by law. And so, like, I have a hard time understanding
00:29:05.900why TikTok is this massive threat of all of our data being given to China, given that a foreign
00:29:11.480adversary like China would not even need TikTok to get that data right now. You know, as long as
00:29:17.240they follow certain specific guidelines, they can totally legally buy that data from U.S.-based data
00:29:23.480brokers. And so that to me is a huge problem. I don't think that we should be making TikTok this
00:29:28.980big, you know, boogeyman while not meaningfully addressing the actual root cause of the issue,
00:29:35.240which is that we don't really have the kind of data protections and privacy protections
00:29:39.200that we need in this country. And so just to sort of wrap this up, I think it is still too
00:29:45.140soon to say whether or not TikTok will actually be banned. If I was a betting woman, I believe it
00:29:52.680could be banned. Like, I think it's more likely than not, but that's just my opinion. But even
00:29:59.180still, this bill still needs to pass both the House and the Senate and be signed into law by
00:30:03.660the president in which case if it did become the law bite dance would still have six months to sell
00:30:08.600before any kind of ban takes effect so we'll keep following this um yeah yeah yeah i guess we'll
00:30:16.880find out i will say i personally i don't think it's gonna end up being banned i think tell me
00:30:23.520more i i just think i just think it's it's like been in the kind of cultural zeitgeist too long
00:30:33.640like it's like if this the the first round of this happening i was like oh yeah they're definitely
00:30:38.860gonna ban tech talk i feel like by this point by like 2024 i feel like it's too far gone and also
00:30:45.500like they said you know there's all these like teenagers and older people too i guess like
00:30:50.180calling in and and complaining about it i i do think uh i think at least if there is a ban i
00:30:57.300don't think it's gonna last i think it'll it'll or there's gonna be some sort of way of going
00:31:01.400around it but oh for sure i guess that's something i really think about a lot it's like in like you
00:31:08.920could like there are so many ways to get around this ban i would also be really curious how it
00:31:13.040will be enforced and you know it has to be said that i do think tiktok has really been instrumental
00:31:19.740in traditionally marginalized communities really being able to have a bigger voice you know our
00:31:25.300communities have you know don't unless you like know somebody on the mass tent at the new york
00:31:29.360times or whatever, sometimes it's hard for our communities to really have access to the kind of
00:31:35.000media power that other groups have. And so I do think that if it is banned, I think that
00:31:41.240marginalized creators and marginalized communities would really suffer the most because we don't
00:31:47.420always have those avenues and those channels that are already built to get our voices and our stories
00:31:52.500out there. There are so many things pertaining to marginalized communities that I personally would
00:31:57.860not have known about if not for tiktok and so i'm concerned that that as a platform for me
00:32:04.300staying informed about what's happening in other traditionally marginalized communities other than
00:32:08.840my own i'm concerned for what what the banning of that app means for me being able to stay informed
00:32:15.100with what's going on definitely yeah i totally agree and i mean i feel like part of part of the
00:32:20.360reason why right now this is so concerning is just the fact that it's like twitter's gone to0.98
00:32:24.980shit, too. Like there's not necessarily like I feel like TikTok was kind of where I turned when0.71
00:32:29.720Twitter stopped being like functional. So I don't know. I don't know what's going to where people
00:32:35.740are going to go next. Yeah, I feel the exact same. Speaking of Twitter being kind of a garbage
00:32:41.920factory. Well, this week over on Twitter, they rolled out video and voice calls. Y'all might0.92
00:32:48.000recall that Elon Musk really wants Twitter to be like an everything app where you do your banking,
00:32:52.940your phone calls your emails all the things that you already do online now but i guess like
00:32:58.440you can do all of those things over on twitter but i guess at great security risk to yourselves
00:33:03.480and also shitty i guess that's how he's envisioning it yeah you never wanted to like
00:33:08.240access your bank account but in a less secure and more annoying way bridget
00:33:15.720i mean like finally a solution to this problem so because we're talking about elon musk here
00:33:24.820the rollout of these video and voice calls has not been good and it's been rolled out to everyone
00:33:30.820by default you do not get the option of opting in if you have the twitter app on your phone i don't
00:33:36.800think it's on the browser yet but you have it so here's what you need to know about this rollout
00:33:41.900First of all, Twitter's new video and voice calls leaks your IP address to anybody that you talk with, and it's really complicated to limit who you can talk to.
00:33:51.480TechCrunch has a really good explainer, which we'll link to in the show notes, where they say that a person's IP address is not, like, hugely sensitive necessarily, but these online identifiers can be used to infer location and can be linked to a person's online activity, which can be dangerous for high-risk users.
00:34:09.400So if you're an activist, if you're a public figure, if you're a dissident, if you're somebody who, you know, is engaged in sensitive conversations or sensitive work, that could be concerning for you.
00:34:21.280Another thing to know about this is that Twitter does not mention encryption in any of their official Help Center pages at all.
00:34:28.400So their calls probably are not end-to-end encrypted, which potentially allows Twitter to listen in on conversations.
00:34:34.200end-to-end encrypted messaging apps such as Signal or WhatsApp, those prevent anybody other than the
00:34:39.920caller and the recipient from listening in. And I do feel like luckily we're going to a place where
00:34:46.360that is like more of the norm. And it's kind of interesting to me that Twitter rolled this out
00:34:52.480without even referencing whether or not calls are encrypted in any of their messaging. When Tech
00:34:59.000crunch actually emailed twitter to ask about this like incredibly basic privacy and security thing
00:35:05.440they of course got the standard twitter reply which is like oh we're busy now please check
00:35:10.060back later which again to me really speaks to the carelessness with which this was rolled out you
00:35:16.920know giving it to everybody by default you know not having people opt in or even like meaningfully
00:35:23.320telling them what's going on and then not being able to answer some of these basic security
00:35:27.660questions to me is like a big red flag. So my advice to everybody is unless you have some
00:35:34.260particular need to be doing calls over Twitter, you should turn this off. It's pretty easy to
00:35:40.440turn off. We will drop the tech crunch piece with pretty clear instructions with images on how to do
00:35:45.840this in the show notes. But unless you've got some real pressing need to have Elon Musk like
00:35:51.040listening to your sensitive phone call, I suggest that everybody turn this off.
00:37:27.140It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:37:35.040Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:37:44.200Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:38:01.840So speaking of online shenanigans, I have to talk about this recent report from BBC
00:38:07.240breaking down a new-ish disinformation trend that we're seeing ahead of the 2024 U.S. presidential election,0.63
00:38:13.840which is fake AI-generated images of Trump with Black people.0.74
00:38:20.180So I've actually seen a bunch of these in the wild.0.73
00:38:23.640The one that sticks in my mind is an image of Trump posing with a bunch of young Black men.
00:38:29.920This was shared unironically by somebody that I follow on Facebook or like I'm friends with on Facebook.0.99
00:38:35.660And so like was not shared in a like, look how stupid this is kind of way.0.98
00:38:39.320Shared in a like, yay, Trump, this is great kind of way.0.92
00:38:42.400And so the caption of this fake image was like, Trump's motorcade was driving around Baltimore when these kids asked him to stop and take a picture.
00:38:51.300and it was seen by 1.3 million people.
00:38:55.100And it's one of those images where like,
00:38:57.440if you thought about it for 10 seconds,
00:38:59.940like think about it critically for 10 seconds,
00:39:01.840if Trump's motorcade was driving through Baltimore
00:39:04.380and a bunch of random kids on the street were like,
00:39:07.720hey, Trump, stop your motorcade and get out of the car
00:44:05.480And so, like, well, I guess even though you don't need AI to make this kind of offensive, you know, digital fakeries, it is concerning.
00:44:16.800So the Washington Post's tech vertical spoke to the person who made the image that you're talking about that you said looked so real.
00:44:24.260He is Mark Kay, a host of a conservative radio show in Florida, who said that he created the image using the AI image tool Midjourney to illustrate a November 29 post about Trump's alleged growing support among black voters.
00:44:39.560He said that he knew that posts that have an image tend to perform better on social media platforms.
00:44:44.140So he just made this image on mid-journey and he said it took him 30 seconds to create, which is concerning that like in less than a minute, somebody could make this like pretty convincing image.
00:44:55.960The Washington Post also spoke to Dr. Joan Donovan, who made a really good point about that coverage of this kind of thing is kind of tricky and can also sort of feed into the problem because the people who make these kinds of images want people to be talking about them.
00:45:12.080And so the image itself might not be newsworthy until it gets a kind of coverage that makes it go viral.
00:45:19.060Dr. Donovan says, one of the things we have to consider about campaigns like this is how much they are stunting in terms of trying to get media attention for something that otherwise would not merit headlines.
00:45:29.260Some propagandists might recognize that it's possibly not newsworthy that black people support Trump, but it is newsworthy that AI generated photos of fake voters are circulating.
00:45:39.540And to Dr. Donovan's point, Mark Kay actually said that his AI generated fake Trump images did not go viral until they were covered by BBC. And so, you know, Dr. Donovan might have a point there.0.57
00:45:52.320So Dr. Donovan went further and spoke to this idea that, yes, like, AI that gives people the ability to quickly and effectively make this kind of visual disinformation is really scary and, like, bad, but cheap fakes and other kinds of media manipulation also exist.
00:46:11.460And it's also a big concern because, you know, whereas these Trump deepfakes now have labels on Facebook and Instagram that say they are not real, cheapfakes and other kind of low-budget media manipulation might not trigger the same kind of misinformation detectors in the same way and can potentially spread further.
00:46:30.980yeah definitely and yeah like like something that Trump has been very good at has been like you
00:46:37.980know monopolized or taking advantage of media coverage and media coverage of like you know
00:46:44.880outrageous or sort of out there behavior um this kind of reminds me of like early on I think this
00:46:53.180was more the 2016 election but the 2020 election too like whenever there would be like some sort
00:46:59.400of group of like marginalized people that supported trump like i remember there was a big
00:47:03.620like kind of article about this like gays for trump like thing and it was like okay it doesn't
00:47:10.040even like it's probably like a a tiny group and then b it's like the whole like sort of like shock
00:47:16.040value it's like wow this marginalized group that like the republican party kind of hates uh
00:47:21.240is supporting like their super right-wing candidate um but yeah like again that's not
00:47:28.380necessarily newsworthy it's sort of not showing the scale the actual kind of impact of these or
00:47:34.140not trying to scale like the actual support or numbers or whatever what that means what that
00:47:40.500argument is there's probably but there's people of you know whatever marginalized group that
00:47:47.320support trump or the republicans for like whatever reason that in and of itself is not necessarily
00:47:53.620newsworthy but what it does is it kind of like distorts um distorts like the wider story and
00:48:00.260yeah it's it's it's it's just weird it's like yeah but once again every everything about this
00:48:09.620election is just gonna be so insane it already has been but yeah yeah I think you make a really
00:48:15.820good point that I think that's what what Dr. Donovan is saying is that you know we really
00:48:22.500need to be thinking a little deeper about these stories and what makes them newsworthy because0.62
00:48:26.540a group of gay people loudly advocating like a small group of gay folks advocating their support
00:48:33.680for trump it's not like there's a deeper story about well has trump actually you know been good
00:48:42.080for this community and what are the actual numbers of folks who support trump like i do i do wonder
00:48:47.760if it it like makes it tempting to turn what otherwise would just be like maybe a small
00:48:55.120stunt or something into a larger pattern you know it definitely like yeah it definitely it feels
00:49:03.700like the issue is mainly just that like it's sort of changing what the actual meaning of like it
00:49:10.040is changing what the story is it's implying something about the way a certain group of
00:49:16.440people votes i feel like the whole kind of way of like tracking votes based on like you know
00:49:21.800particular identities that people have too like that already is so outdated and like we've already
00:49:27.120seen the kind of nuances of that and like you know yeah there's different factors in people's
00:49:34.800lives that make them vote certain ways or do certain things or believe certain things and
00:49:39.500and just kind of like roping it into like i don't know this yeah again it feels like they're falling
00:49:45.260for what this kind of campaign wants them to, like, what message they want them to circulate,
00:49:51.440which doesn't seem good. Exactly. And that's exactly what disinformation specialist Nina
00:49:56.420Jankiewicz, who was also on the podcast before, said that we don't actually need to be totally
00:50:02.420terrified because we do have common sense and common sense is still a really good deep fake
00:50:09.740detector. And Nina says, you know, you should when you see images like this, you should ask
00:50:13.460yourself like, is Trump actually a great friend to the African-American community? If something
00:50:19.280seems off about it, it is probably a deep fake, right? And so just really going back to our common
00:50:26.300sense of, well, what do I know about this person? Does this seem like something that would actually
00:50:32.500be doing? I also would go further and say, Donald Trump is a known germaphobe. He's not usually
00:50:38.960photographed like like that and the one deep fake image he's like hugging these two women and it's
00:50:44.480like he's not someone who is generally photographed being that touchy-feely with people
00:50:48.280let alone black women so is is that something that you would see right right yeah no germaphobe
00:50:55.300no racist like this is not i literally i back in like 26 i guess yeah what would that that would
00:51:02.520be 2016 back in 2016 like because i was i'm from chicago originally and there was like a rally that
00:51:09.840he canceled in chicago because he was afraid he was going to like get shot like it was because
00:51:14.940of all of his stuff that he was like it was insane like this man and and i'm not saying i don't who's
00:51:20.440to say what would have happened but it's like one of those things i'm like this man is so like i
00:51:26.020don't think he is going into predominantly black neighborhoods uh in baltimore if like i i just
00:51:33.120that does not seem to be the kind of thing that he uh would be putting himself in that situation
00:51:38.520because of certain beliefs that he has you know you don't see donald trump stopping his motorcade0.82
00:51:44.200and chilling with the homies on the stoop in baltimore you don't see it you know anything0.90
00:55:25.200More than 25 organizations have endorsed this bipartisan legislation, including the National
00:55:30.120Women's Law Center, the Sexual Violence Prevention Association, the National Domestic Violence
00:55:34.600Hotline and Ultraviolet, where I used to work.
00:55:36.940AOC said that she started working on this legislation the week after those viral Taylor Swift AI-generated deepfakes happened on Twitter.
00:55:46.580So, again, for as much as we talk about the harm that deepfakes represent for women, girls, BIPOC people, other marginalized people who, according to the UN and just common sense and life experience, are at a heightened risk for experiencing technology-facilitated gender-based violence.
00:56:07.200And given the way that we know technology like AI deepfigs is already disrupting democracy, amazingly, there are no federal laws criminalizing it. Like every time I think about that, I just think about how wild it is that it's just like kind of allowed, like some states have taken steps, but federally, nothing.
00:56:28.980And so this legislation, if it goes through, would be the first federal law taking any kind of action against non-consensual AI generated deepfakes.
00:56:39.520yeah that really is crazy I mean I mean like yeah like this this type of deep fake you know
00:56:46.660is is is obviously kind of a new thing but like I feel like this is kind of been an issue for a
00:56:53.260while and you would think at least like there would be some sort of like libel thing you could
00:56:59.520like put it under somehow but yeah i mean uh like i've said before i think swifties can change the
00:57:11.320world once again why i'm a little skeptical about this tiktok fan going through uh i believe in the
00:57:18.720power of fangirls and like teenagers that have just a deep obsession and parasocial relationship
00:59:56.960Historically. You know how it's always been heterosexual white men who can't get a break0.91
01:00:02.740in any industry whether it's hollywood you know hollywood especially hollywood it's like
01:00:08.560historically historically you know how like it was white men who like weren't allowed to be in
01:00:15.000movies had to enter through the back entrance of nightclubs when they were performing all of that
01:00:19.540historically remember how that happened oh yeah so let's let's pause and imagine that this reality
01:00:26.180where it was straight white men who needed to work like twice as hard to prove themselves
01:00:30.800and not everybody else in hollywood so basically he is being represented by america first legal
01:00:37.260which is the legal initiative of the former trump white house advisor stephen miller
01:00:41.760stephen miller of all of the like trump administration uh one of my favorite outlets
01:00:48.000one cat always uses the phrase chuckle fucks of all of them like he's the one that sort of i found
01:00:53.760the most personally odious but their thing is basically filing complaints with the equal
01:00:59.400Employment Opportunity Commission against major companies, including Starbucks, McDonald's,
01:01:03.580Morgan Stanley, over their corporate diversity and hiring practices. I believe that CBS is the
01:01:09.940first entertainment company that they have targeted in this way. So his lawsuit is pretty ridiculous.0.96
01:01:15.800Basically, he argues that CBS has diversity quotas and that he was promised a writing job1.00
01:01:21.540when one opened up on the show and that instead they hired a bunch of unqualified bimbos instead1.00
01:01:28.200of him, a white man who deserved it. That's basically the gist of the lawsuit. He says that0.99
01:01:34.360CBS's hiring practices have created a situation where heterosexual white men need extra
01:01:40.200qualifications, including military experience or previous writing credits to be hired as staff
01:01:45.300writers compared to their non-white LGBTQ or female peers. Extra qualifications as in previous
01:01:53.000writing credits like writing experience you know it made me write a resume i'm being discriminated
01:02:00.720against also i am so this this maybe this just specifically i have a lot of friends that work
01:02:05.780in film i uh have a background working in film um so maybe this is particularly like pissing me off
01:02:13.380because of that but like go to any film set it is so like a historically it is a deeply
01:02:22.660deeply misogynistic deeply racist industry and still it is like the majority of the people you're
01:02:28.480going to see there are going to be white men like yes oh my god especially in the writer's room
01:02:34.200yeah I mean it just sounds to me like what he's really saying is like I want a system where being
01:02:40.360a white straight male means I get stuff and that is never questioned like that's the system that
01:02:45.160I want like that's what that's what I think we should have and just to be real for a second like
01:02:51.440I almost didn't include this story in the roundup, but it's a little bit of a smokescreen because I really wanted to read some of these comments that Deadline published from women writers and writers of color about this because they are hilarious.
01:05:23.060oh i was chuckling to myself about that one earlier today it is seal team like i've never
01:05:29.340heard of this show i've never heard of it i feel like it's the kind of show that like
01:05:33.560somebody's dad probably watches like it's like i think it's about like um oh it's got david
01:05:39.040barry barry this seems like it has a very very dedicated like fandom on tumblr somewhere and
01:05:45.880then everybody else who watches it yeah it's like somebody's dad it's like oh i'm sure this this
01:05:51.960reminds me of like there are so many shows when I'm flipping channels and part of it is because
01:05:56.880I just came back from visiting my parents and like they're watching stuff I've never even heard
01:06:02.260of like we we live in such different like television watching silos I guess like my dad
01:06:09.220has gotten really into this show about a bodyguard I think it might just be called bodyguard and
01:06:14.240it's all about a guy who's a bodyguard and it's like part of me is like are these real shows like
01:06:20.500where are you getting these for real there's just like an endless list of i feel like there also is
01:06:25.580like that's what i was i i remember like i had a friend telling me about a show that was very very
01:06:31.120similar to this but i yeah i feel like there's just like an endless like list of like military
01:06:36.720police firefighter whatever oh my god it is sort of like one of those things where
01:06:44.540When did we decide that the main show, the main occupations for television shows is going to be firefighter, police, maybe like doctor, nurse, like military person, doctor.