There Are No Girls on the Internet - Who the F did she marry!？; Instamom exploitation; Bobbi Althoff deep fakes flood Twitter; What we know about Nex Benedict’s death – NEWS ROUNDUP

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00:00:34.940 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:38.460 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:43.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:00:47.300 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,

00:00:51.020 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:00:54.640 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:00:58.680 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:10.580 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:01:18.700 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:01:21.440 welcome to the show where we explore the intersection of identity social media and

00:01:28.540 technology this is another installment of our weekly roundup of news that you might have missed

00:01:33.600 on the internet this week joey thank you so much for being here as i was telling you i am

00:01:39.480 coming to you from my hotel room in beautiful burlington vermont i'm at the hotel vermont

00:01:46.100 shout out to them. They've been great. Thank you for being here. Of course. Okay. So we were

00:01:51.720 talking about this off mic and I was like, I wonder if they have heard about this who the F

00:01:57.980 did I marry saga on TikTok. And you were like, oh, what is this? Who the F did I marry? So you

00:02:03.320 have not heard about this at all from TikTok. I have not. No. So let me explain to you what is

00:02:10.220 going on. So this woman on TikTok basically told this epic story about essentially how her marriage

00:02:18.340 fell apart. It was in 50 parts. So 50 separate 10 minute TikToks. Altogether, it was 500 minutes

00:02:27.760 of viewing time or about eight and a half hours. When I tell you that I watched the entire thing,

00:02:33.020 I was watching this TikTok as if I was listening to an audio book or like listening to a podcast

00:02:37.780 where I was carrying my phone around my apartment

00:02:40.540 being like, ooh, and then what happened?

00:02:41.920 And then what happened?

00:02:43.080 And then what happened?

00:02:43.840 And so essentially her story is one

00:02:46.660 where she was engaged to marry this guy

00:02:49.840 or married this guy.

00:02:52.040 She thought he had been telling her like,

00:02:54.460 oh, I'm the VP of a company.

00:02:56.600 I'm really close to my family and to my cousins,

00:02:59.600 blah, blah, blah.

00:03:00.580 And he was getting up every morning

00:03:03.220 and having these like jovial conversations

00:03:06.880 with his brother and his cousins and his families and his friends. And it turns out that he'd been

00:03:11.660 doing this for years, but he was just pretending to have these conversations. So there was never

00:03:17.180 anybody on the other end of the phone because his family has been estranged and no contact from him

00:03:23.620 for years. He said that he was a VP at a condiment company. Turns out in reality, he was like

00:03:29.660 a forklift operator he basically had invented all of these bank statements from chase from chase

00:03:37.100 bank talking about like oh like this is how much money i have in the bank because they were going

00:03:40.900 to buy a house together like it this thing went deep it was 50 separate parts she got 150 million

00:03:49.800 different people watching this story hanging on her every word uh overnight essentially she got

00:03:55.460 a million followers through sharing this story. And I will say like, people listening might be

00:04:00.360 like, wow, you've dedicated eight and a half hours of your life to listening to the drama of a

00:04:05.260 stranger, people that you'll never meet. Yeah, I did because she is a very good storyteller. I was

00:04:09.600 hanging on every word. So I guess my question to you to start off is that would you air out

00:04:17.320 some truly wild personal story or personal drama if you knew that it would equal like overnight

00:04:24.480 social media fame because right now this woman is she's in talks with like big brands and like

00:04:30.360 people are like oh Shonda Rhimes should make her life into a movie like she like she's made it 0.99

00:04:36.460 would you do that if you knew it was going to make you like famous overnight damn um

00:04:42.880 I want to say no um just because I feel like you know it's kind of a double-edged sword where like 0.89

00:04:52.300 i feel like people are gonna turn on you really quick like something's gonna happen i don't know

00:04:56.320 uh damn that's crazy though that i feel like that level of like a i feel like i wouldn't want to

00:05:04.820 admit to the public that i fell for that like i'd feel bad like which no not no shade to her like 0.95

00:05:10.720 whatever but i'm kind of like i feel like i'd be like i wouldn't want people to know that i fell

00:05:15.140 for that i didn't even google the guy or whatever but um yeah at the same time that's that's crazy

00:05:21.620 can't i don't know i feel like i will never truly know social media fame or infamy because i don't

00:05:31.160 i don't have this i don't have this kind of like i couldn't there's nothing in my life that i could

00:05:36.800 do a 50 part tiktok on i don't have personal drama there's something like wild going on in my life i

00:05:42.280 guess thank god but like part of me is like damn do you really have to like have some wild stuff

00:05:48.980 happening in your personal life and be willing to like really air out all the details in order to 0.79

00:05:53.560 find some kind of social media success these days okay so my one point of reference is that I had

00:05:59.560 somebody try to do this to a friend of mine um which um it wasn't successful also like 90% of

00:06:08.700 it was fake it was a weird like it was a weird situation but um I don't know I I personally

00:06:16.620 I feel like I see this a lot on TikTok like especially when you get into like

00:06:22.020 more niche TikTok communities too like there's always some sort of personal beef between

00:06:26.660 creators that like blows up and like becomes a huge thing and I'm like I like when you step back

00:06:32.380 it's sort of like who like this is not any of my business like what is going on yeah I feel the

00:06:38.500 same way and it's funny when I first started making the podcast it was very important to me

00:06:44.460 that someone listening to the show could never be like oh it's just a summary of like

00:06:48.980 TikTok beefs or Twitter beefs or who's canceling who on Twitter and I see so much of that but like

00:06:56.840 and I I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I'm above finding the interpersonal drama and

00:07:02.800 dynamics of strangers interesting because lord knows I'm fascinated but you know it's it's out

00:07:08.660 there you should tell if you're if your friend wants social media fame and can like tell the

00:07:15.440 story over 50 very compelling tiktoks now is the time there's a hunger for it dude there's always

00:07:21.040 that's the thing is like you know the last time i was on we were talking about the like lesbian

00:07:25.520 bar drama and it's funny because i feel like that is the version of like where it backfired where

00:07:30.540 like i think she was doing this i think she thought she was like getting her her beef out

00:07:35.800 there and using i don't know but like i think she was intending to use it for versatile gain

00:07:41.620 and then it backfired in a way that made her look bad and that's why i like i don't know i feel like

00:07:46.920 there's some there's some sort of like detail i'd miss that everybody would go after me you know

00:07:51.500 right right like oh well joey didn't consider this before telling the story like i was sorry

00:07:56.700 yeah you live by the you live by the sword you die by the sword you got to be careful

00:08:01.940 airing out your beef on social media. It's great advice. Hey, so this is Future Bridget. The New

00:08:09.000 York Times just published a groundbreaking story today looking at so-called Instamoms who run

00:08:14.700 accounts for their very young minor daughters. The piece was published after Joey and I recorded

00:08:19.420 this episode, but I still really wanted to let y'all know about it, which is why I'm popping in

00:08:23.280 here. Just a heads up, this is dark. Basically, parents, mostly moms to be honest, are running

00:08:29.800 Instagram accounts for their minor daughters who are as young as five years old. Now, some of these

00:08:34.420 accounts are ostensibly about showcasing their daughters' modeling or competitive dancing or

00:08:39.840 gymnastics. The accounts show their minor daughters in dance or gymnastics apparel, which can be

00:08:45.000 skimpy or revealing and, you know, might look one way in a dance studio or on a dance stage,

00:08:49.860 but looks very different when posed in photos on social media. It's complicated because some of

00:08:56.000 these moms may genuinely feel like running these kinds of accounts for their daughters 1.00

00:08:59.860 could be good for a future career as a model or an influencer. Some of the moms are getting 0.99

00:09:04.900 free or discounted clothing and are hopeful about brand deals from these accounts.

00:09:09.360 It's gross because at least some of these moms who run the pages really do seem like they think 0.99

00:09:13.840 this is going to be a good thing for their daughters or their families financially, 0.99

00:09:17.280 but maybe don't seem to be that concerned with what it's actually doing to their daughters.

00:09:22.460 Like, becoming an influencer cannot be worth this.

00:09:25.980 Because for a lot of these accounts, the followers aren't just brands or, you know, well-meaning family members.

00:09:31.620 The followers are grown men, strangers, creeps, who leave really sexually inappropriate comments on the pictures.

00:09:39.180 Now, I should say, some of the moms the New York Times talked to are actively managing the accounts, deleting creepy men followers and their comments.

00:09:46.460 But other moms are encouraging these kinds of comments and even arranging for the men to have more and more direct contact with their daughters for money, like through paying for subscriptions to exclusive content on Instagram, allowing the men to buy the daughters' used clothing, or even arranging private chats.

00:10:04.040 So it's pretty clear what's going on.

00:10:06.440 I don't think that you could be a parent who is arranging this kind of thing and be totally naive to what's going on.

00:10:12.580 And Instagram is really not doing enough compared to other platforms to stamp out this kind of behavior.

00:10:18.180 In fact, they're really kind of doing nothing in my book.

00:10:21.700 In 2022, Instagram launched paid subscriptions, which allow followers to pay a monthly fee for exclusive content and access.

00:10:29.380 Now, accounts for anybody under the age of 18 are not supposed to be able to do subscriptions, but mom-run accounts sidestep that restriction.

00:10:37.160 The Times found dozens that charged from $0.99 to $19.99.

00:10:41.880 At the highest price, parents offered ask-me-anything chat sessions and behind-the-scenes photos.

00:10:48.360 Child safety experts warn that subscriptions and other features could lead to unhealthy interactions with men believing they have a special connection to the girls and girls believing they must meet these men's needs.

00:10:59.380 So Instagram is basically like uniquely establishing a pathway that allows for minor girls and adults to be connected and get exclusive access to them.

00:11:08.660 And what in the world would there be any legitimate reason for a grown man to be paying for exclusive access to a child? 0.98

00:11:16.480 Like, on some level, I cannot imagine a world where these moms truly are so naive to what is going on.

00:11:24.500 And some of the men who follow these kinds of accounts are actual child abusers.

00:11:28.740 Even though Instagram is supposed to not allow anybody who is on the sex offender registry to use the platform,

00:11:34.240 the Times trace the account of some of the followers.

00:11:36.780 and one of them who follows these kinds of accounts was convicted of sexually assaulting

00:11:41.440 a child and is listed on the New Jersey Sex Offender Registry. And Instagram did not remove

00:11:46.120 this account until the Times asked them about it for this piece. On Telegram, an alternative

00:11:51.020 social media platform, these men connect with each other and trade images for abusive means.

00:11:56.520 Men in these groups frequently praise the advent of Instagram as the golden age for child

00:12:01.220 exploitation. I'm so glad for these new moms pimping their daughters out, wrote one of them, 0.96

00:12:06.480 and there's an infinite supply of it. Literally just refresh your Instagram explore page and 1.00

00:12:11.180 there's fresh preteens. Some of these men even go further and cultivate business or patronage

00:12:16.660 relationships with the moms by sending the moms cash or gifts or other things, and also trying to

00:12:23.300 pressure or blackmail the moms into posting more and more revealing outfits. One mom described it 0.75

00:12:29.080 as her girls becoming a kind of currency. Now, again, there are moms who it sounds like are

00:12:35.000 trying to keep men like this off of their accounts, but those moms are basically blocked

00:12:40.020 by Instagram itself. Meta failed to act on multiple reports made by parents and even

00:12:45.340 restricted parents who tried to police their own followers, according to interviews and

00:12:49.820 materials provided by these parents. If the parents block too many accounts in one day,

00:12:54.540 Meta curtails their ability to block or follow others, they said.

00:12:58.080 I remember being told, like, I've reached my limit, said a mother of two dancers in Arizona

00:13:02.240 who declined to be named. Like what? I reached my limit of pedophiles for today? Okay, great.

00:13:07.420 And sometimes, even in the most egregious, explicit cases, like a man who propositioned

00:13:12.340 a mom offering her $65,000 for one hour with her minor daughter in a DM, Instagram still did

00:13:19.300 nothing when she reported it. Now, in response to these reports, Metta said that either those

00:13:24.120 communications did not violate Instagram's community guidelines or that staff didn't

00:13:28.760 have time to review them. In other cases, Meta told parents that it relied on its, quote,

00:13:33.480 technology to determine the content was probably not a violation. So there is just no way to spin

00:13:40.120 that. This is Instagram allowing their platform to be used for nefarious ways by creeps who are

00:13:47.340 endangering children and doing fuck all about it. So I really want to talk about what's going on 0.95

00:13:53.340 here. One, Instagram isn't doing enough. And I think that they've really been counting on

00:13:58.040 bad press around Twitter and TikTok to not have to answer for the ways that they've allowed their

00:14:03.100 platform to become, as one of the men who follows these accounts put it, quote, a candy store for

00:14:08.560 abusive child content. And I also think there is a lot going on with these moms. Like, I don't think

00:14:14.060 anyone should have to deal with a creep exploiting their kids, and no young person should have to go

00:14:19.080 through it either. These girls should be able to decide how they want to show up online, but they're 1.00

00:14:23.780 so young, they can't possibly understand and consent to this kind of digital presence. 0.93

00:14:28.780 Some of the moms at the time spoke to said things like, oh, she's been doing this for

00:14:32.100 so long now. 0.80

00:14:32.860 Her numbers are so big.

00:14:33.960 What are we supposed to do?

00:14:34.760 Just stop it and walk away.

00:14:36.640 And yes, of course, you can just stop this and walk away.

00:14:40.660 If you are a parent, it is your job to keep your kid safe.

00:14:43.680 And if you know that creeps like this are out there and exploiting your kid, you should

00:14:48.940 be able to be the adult in the room and say, we are going to stop this and walk away.

00:14:53.140 The promise of InstaFame and free stuff from brands cannot be worth the well-being and health of your child.

00:15:05.480 Let's take a quick break.

00:15:23.140 for details and to check availability bell connection is everything run a business and

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00:15:54.240 iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and

00:16:01.920 held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people

00:16:07.880 survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor

00:16:13.580 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:16:22.680 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:16:26.920 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:16:31.500 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:16:38.920 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:16:42.740 but these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:16:46.400 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:16:50.000 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:16:52.740 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:04.340 And we're back.

00:17:08.400 So we have to sort of switch gears,

00:17:12.100 And I have to give a bit of a warning for this story because it is deeply heartbreaking

00:17:17.080 and deeply disturbing.

00:17:19.060 And I just want to say that right off the top.

00:17:22.160 It is a truly heartbreaking story out of Oklahoma and it's still developing, but I can tell

00:17:28.560 you what we know as of right now.

00:17:30.680 So next Benedict, a 16-year-old Oklahoma high school sophomore was beaten by three girl

00:17:37.100 classmates in the bathroom of Owasso High School on WRA 7s.

00:17:41.500 The next day, February 8th, Nex, who identified with the two-spirit transgender and gender nonconforming umbrella, was declared dead at a hospital.

00:17:51.700 So there is a very detailed piece in Teen Vogue by non-binary journalist Lex McMenamin, who points out that according to Freedom Oklahoma, it is not apparently clear what pronouns Benedict used.

00:18:04.800 So in this conversation, I'm going to refrain from using any pronouns.

00:18:08.820 According to this piece, a lot of what we have heard about what might have happened

00:18:13.540 comes from an anonymous source who says that they are a family friend.

00:18:17.560 And this person told a local news outlet that the cause of Nex's death was, quote,

00:18:22.840 complications from brain trauma and that three older girls were beating the victim

00:18:27.920 and her daughter in this girl's bathroom at the school.

00:18:31.140 So this source said that Nex said that Nex couldn't walk to the nurse's station

00:18:37.220 without assistance and that the school did not call an ambulance. This is a little bit murky to

00:18:42.220 me because I've seen conflicting sources and conflicting reports. The school claims that

00:18:46.980 they were unaware that the fight happened until they were informed by a parent. But then on

00:18:51.280 February 20th, the school kind of backtracked, acknowledging that the students saw the school

00:18:55.540 nurse after the altercation. So it's not totally clear to me what actually happened. Like the

00:19:01.580 school said one thing, then another. I'm not totally sure what's going on there. But here's

00:19:08.320 what Nex texted after the attack. I got jumped at school three on one, had to go to the ER.

00:19:15.220 They had been bullying me and my friends and I got tired of it. So I poured some water on them

00:19:19.580 and all three came after me. School did not report to the police and is probably getting sued.

00:19:25.420 Nex's guardian, Sue Benedict, told the independent that she was called to the school

00:19:29.600 to find Nex had been badly beaten with face bruises.

00:19:33.520 Sue Benedict says that her child told her

00:19:35.960 that the attack involved Nex's head hitting the ground.

00:19:39.780 So Benedict says that the school told her

00:19:42.080 that Nex was going to be suspended for two weeks.

00:19:45.000 Nex's guardian brought Nex to the hospital

00:19:47.160 right after the fight, was discharged.

00:19:49.900 The very next day, Nex ended up collapsing at home.

00:19:53.580 Nex's guardian called an ambulance

00:19:55.500 who took Nex to the hospital

00:19:57.120 where Nex was then pronounced dead.

00:19:59.600 And it's very heartbreaking. I have to be clear that, like, we don't have all the information. A lot of these reports are still coming together and still being confirmed. If we get more information, we will definitely update you. But this is what I was able to confirm myself as of recording on Thursday evening.

00:20:15.460 So according to a piece in The Independent, Nex began being bullied at the beginning of 2023, a few months after Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt signed a bill that required public school students to use bathrooms that matched the sex listed on their birth certificates.

00:20:31.480 As of right now, we do not know Nex's cause of death.

00:20:35.920 The police issued a subsequent statement on the 21st of February saying that an autopsy

00:20:40.720 indicated that Nex had not died as a result of trauma, but that didn't say what might

00:20:47.180 have caused Nex's death.

00:20:48.780 The police said, while the investigation continues into the altercation, preliminary information

00:20:53.400 from the medical examiner's office is that a complete autopsy was performed and indicated

00:20:57.840 that the decedent did not die as a result of trauma.

00:21:00.540 But the family is also going to do their own independent investigation into the death

00:21:05.340 as well.

00:21:05.920 So that is what we know in terms of facts about what happened.

00:21:09.260 But something else that we know is that Nex's death isn't happening in a vacuum, right?

00:21:14.560 It's happening against the backdrop of an entire wave of increasingly violent anti-LGBTQ climate in Oklahoma.

00:21:22.060 Specifically, Oklahoma leads the nation in terms of anti-LGBTQ laws.

00:21:27.900 Joey, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago when you were on the show.

00:21:31.300 But in Oklahoma's school district, Oklahoma's Republican superintendent of public schools, Ryan Walters, recently appointed the far-right hate-mongering influencer, Chaya Raychik, who runs the inflammatory libs of TikTok account.

00:21:47.060 So Raychik was appointed to be on the Oklahoma Education Department's Library Media Advisory Committee, despite the fact that, as we said, she's not an Oklahoma resident, doesn't have a child in the Oklahoma school system, doesn't have a background in education.

00:21:59.700 She's a realtor. It's not clear why she would be someone who would be a good person to elevate within Oklahoma public schools, other than the fact that she has these like very public anti-LGBTQ, anti-trans views that she makes very clear from her TikTok account.

00:22:17.700 Rightchick's anti-LGBTQ posts have been linked to nearly three dozen threats made towards schools, libraries, hospitals, and businesses across 16 states.

00:22:26.100 This is according to an NBC News investigation.

00:22:28.540 And so it's pretty clear to me, like, it's very clear what the kind of statement Oklahoma Public Schools is trying to send when they amplify somebody like Libs of TikTok to a position like this within the school system.

00:22:43.920 And I think it's like, it's very difficult to talk about what happened to Next without also talking about this very hateful climate that's happening in Oklahoma.

00:22:54.620 love yeah definitely I saw this story come out um right after Nexa died and yeah this is just so

00:23:08.960 heartbreaking and and I cannot yeah like it's just it's so heartbreaking and it's so clear that

00:23:17.980 yeah like there's like that's connected there's definitely a connection there hey this is kind of

00:23:23.440 like this is the end game of a lot of like this sort of rhetoric and like the kind of things that

00:23:30.420 like lips of TikTok and all that like what they're trying to do they're trying to prevent

00:23:35.200 trans people from existing and a lot of times that ends in people dying you know and that is

00:23:44.160 horrifying and I yeah this this is truly such just such a like tragic story. It really is and I've 1.00

00:23:52.860 I mean, I think that you're exactly right, that you can't have all of these different ways where queer folks and trans folks and gender nonconforming folks are being given the message that the people in power, the powers that be, don't want them to exist. 0.52

00:24:11.000 They want to criminalize them.

00:24:12.080 They want to legislate the met of existence and then act surprised when this kind of thing happens.

00:24:17.840 Yeah. And then, I mean, this is also the other side of that is that it empowers the other kids that killed next. Like, they're probably their motivation or they're kind of the reasons they did what they did is motivated also by this kind of rhetoric and the fact that this rhetoric has become like normalized. And like the messages they're hearing are probably telling them that this was something that was OK and justifiable.

00:24:45.220 That's such a good point. And I think, you know, kids are absorbing these messages. They're hearing these messages. You know, it just doesn't surprise me that kids in Nex's school saw Nex as someone it was okay to bully, someone that it was open season on, and that the adults at the school, what were they going to say? Because they're doing it too, right?

00:25:09.920 Like, I mean, like, I've seen a lot of people framing this story as, like, kids bullying kids, like, teach your kids to be better.

00:25:17.860 But we are talking about grown adults who are passing laws that harm kids, right?

00:25:22.760 Like, Chaya Rachid from Limbs of TikTok is in her 30s, right?

00:25:25.940 She's not a child.

00:25:26.760 And if you're curious, like, what is she doing on Twitter right now?

00:25:31.320 Well, right now she is misgendering next, even in death.

00:25:34.880 She is on Twitter tonight misgendering a dead child.

00:25:39.440 So, no, it is not kids bullying kids when you've got adults who are setting a very clear agenda that criminalizes and demonizes LGBTQ youth, right?

00:25:49.380 Like, it's just, like, very clear to me that we're not talking just about, like, kids being awful to other kids.

00:25:55.180 The adults in the room who are supposed to be setting a different example are making it clear that this is going to be tolerated, that this is okay, and participating in it themselves.

00:26:06.700 According to The Independent, one of Nex's teachers was actually featured in a secretly

00:26:11.000 filmed video on Libs of TikTok in April of 2022.

00:26:14.740 This teacher was filmed telling students, if your parents don't accept you for who you 1.00

00:26:18.320 are, fuck them. 1.00

00:26:19.680 After a very big backlash, this teacher had to resign. 1.00

00:26:23.040 And according to Nex's Guardian, Nex was really angry about this.

00:26:27.500 And to put this in a larger context beyond just Libs of TikTok, last year, a court ruled

00:26:32.840 that Oklahoma can enforce its law banning and criminalizing gender-affirming care for trans

00:26:37.260 minors while a suit against it is heard. So that law would make providing gender-affirming care 0.99

00:26:42.220 in Oklahoma a felony. And so, yeah, it's impossible for me to talk about what happened

00:26:50.820 to next without putting it in that larger context where adults who really should know better are

00:26:56.900 creating the conditions for this kind of violence. And I think we need to be really clear about the

00:27:02.580 agenda that they're setting and not let them feign ignorance and not let them be like, oh,

00:27:07.840 well, I don't want anyone to get hurt. That is a very obvious example of what is called

00:27:13.800 stochastic terror, right? Where you don't necessarily explicitly come out and say like,

00:27:19.760 I want you to harm trans people or I want you to do harassing things to trans people.

00:27:26.700 But you're not not saying that. It's all very wink, wink, nod, nod. And I think for too long, 0.99

00:27:31.220 we have let these people get away with exactly that. Like, I don't like that Libs of TikTok is 1.00

00:27:36.380 able to be like, they're accusing me of killing this young person. And all I do is, you know,

00:27:43.380 post videos from Nexus school that criminalize transness and queerness and anybody who would 0.82

00:27:51.100 support that. It's like, well, that is kind of what you're doing. You don't really get to say

00:27:53.880 that you're not doing it when that's what's going on. Yeah, exactly. She stokes violence. Like,

00:27:59.160 what she does she the purpose of her account is to soak violence and like you know this is I guess

00:28:05.820 like yeah this is what people have been saying like this is gonna lead to kids dying uh and yeah

00:28:11.940 we're seeing that happen we're like you know I just like yeah Dex should still be alive this is

00:28:18.920 just such a like terrible story and it's so clear like who's at fault here and what sort of narratives

00:28:25.280 are at fault. And yeah, it's just horrifying. Yeah. Matt Bernstein put it really well. Matt

00:28:32.260 says, you took away their books. You took away their health care. You took away their ability

00:28:35.960 to use the right bathroom. You fired the teachers who kept them safe. You demonized them on

00:28:40.260 television and on Twitter, all in the name of, quote, protecting children. And I guess I just

00:28:46.920 feel like when people talk about protecting children, it's like, what about children like

00:28:50.740 next i feel like all of this so much of like what's happening right now it's literally just

00:28:56.120 grown adults trying to excuse the fact that they still want to bully children like they still it

00:29:02.740 like literally like not to like psychoanalyze this or whatever but like literally it feels like

00:29:07.960 these are just people that never got over like whatever high school bully phase they went through

00:29:14.500 and they're mad that they can't like like that yeah that things are i don't know it is just it

00:29:20.980 is grown adults bullying children and bullying children to the point where they're putting them

00:29:28.140 in danger and that is so like disgusting and terrifying about this whole thing yes and it's

00:29:35.380 like bullying children under the guise of protecting children if you're protecting children

00:29:41.600 next would still be alive like this is not protecting children this is bullying children 0.98

00:29:45.600 this is living out some kind of a fucked up high school fantasy against a target that you perceive 0.96

00:29:51.400 as vulnerable and unable to protect themselves and that i think that you're exactly right i think 0.95

00:29:55.900 that's exactly what it is and yeah next should still be alive i hate that this is a story that

00:30:01.180 we're even having to talk about but it is it's what's going on it's what's happening in oklahoma

00:30:06.960 And I really feel for the community there, for Nex's community, who is grieving and is

00:30:15.980 just, even in grief, even in death, just constantly getting signals that this is okay.

00:30:21.700 Like the superintendent of Nex's school didn't even put out a statement, didn't even say

00:30:27.140 anything.

00:30:27.820 If a young person dies in one of your schools, it's just like these people are ghouls.

00:30:34.560 Like, I can't even, like, I don't even know what to say at a certain point.

00:30:38.900 If you are a superintendent of a school and a child dies in the school bathroom of a school in which you are meant to be kind of in charge of and you don't even say anything because you know that you've spent the last few years creating a toxic, violent environment for kids like the one that died, it is really bad.

00:30:59.000 It is really bad.

00:30:59.680 My heart breaks for Next.

00:31:00.880 My heart breaks for Next's family and community.

00:31:02.820 And if we get more information about what's going on in this story, we will definitely give you an update.

00:31:12.880 Let's take a quick break.

00:31:32.820 is everything run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans

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00:32:04.940 If your bookshelf and your For You page

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00:32:09.360 welcome home.

00:32:10.880 This is Prose Society,

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00:33:02.980 See you between the pages.

00:33:10.020 And we're back.

00:33:12.360 But this also feeds into how LGBTQ youth are treated online, which actually does bring me to an update that we have about the Kids Online Safety Act this week.

00:33:22.160 So for folks who don't know, the Kids Online Safety Act, otherwise known as COSA, is ostensibly about regulating how social media platforms operate for younger users to protect them.

00:33:34.000 If you're hearing scare quotes in my voice, they're there. 0.88

00:33:37.740 But kind of sounds like a way to suppress and criminalize LGBTQ folks on content.

00:33:43.540 That's not me saying this.

00:33:44.560 I'm saying this because, like, explicitly, that is how people behind it have spoken about it and further surveil and censor us all, which is why as much as we want a safer Internet for all of us, children, adults, all of us, I would say, like, in these parts, we have not been too thrilled about this specific legislation.

00:34:04.980 Joey, how would you describe your thoughts on it?

00:34:07.700 yeah i i i think uh not necessarily thrilled puts it pretty well might be a little bit of

00:34:16.220 an understatement uh cosa is a very concerning piece of legislation that i think uh does not

00:34:26.140 do much to achieve the goal that it says it is created to do uh which i'm guessing we're gonna

00:34:35.120 get into a lot of what it does actually do and yeah it's not not great not excited about this

00:34:41.720 one yeah I'm not excited about it either I it's tough for me because I've always generally taken

00:34:47.220 the position on the podcast of like I will typically shy away from advocating for or

00:34:54.200 against specific legislation however on this one I feel like I have to be clear about my

00:34:59.220 reservations about it although i don't want to make it seem like it is widely being panned because

00:35:08.000 i went to an event not that long ago actually the group that put on the event you talked about in

00:35:12.840 your very comprehensive smitty episode i went to it's like youth designing better something i

00:35:20.600 oh design it for us yes that was it yes okay design it for us just for the record so this

00:35:26.820 is a group that claims to be a coalition of young activists and organizations fighting for social

00:35:32.180 media and online platforms kids teen young adults yeah yeah okay it is supposed to be led by young

00:35:37.260 people it is about the internet why do they have less than a thousand instagram followers they have

00:35:42.280 currently 865 instagram followers like i'm sorry i know like young people use social media this is

00:35:52.540 the target group that should be on instagram to follow you and also you are claiming to understand

00:35:57.440 how the internet works yeah i don't know i went uh producer mike and myself went to their like

00:36:03.840 they had a kickoff event in dc and we went it is i mean i will just say i agree with you like i i 0.95

00:36:12.420 think i mean like this is just my opinion and i want to be clear that i i don't think that cosa

00:36:20.620 is good legislation. And there are lots of organizations, some of whom I trust and like

00:36:28.280 and I've worked with, some of whom I don't really know much about and maybe are a little skeptical

00:36:31.880 about, you know, who feel differently about it. But I have to say how I feel like you're listening

00:36:37.380 to this podcast to get my take. And I have to be honest about that take, which is that

00:36:40.540 I am suspect of this legislation. And if you want more information, like a really good deep dive,

00:36:46.900 And Joey actually did an amazing Stuff Mom Never Told You episode, breaking down some

00:36:51.660 of the concerns and issues and origins of the Kids Online Safety Act and the way that

00:36:56.140 it could really change the internet, not just for young people, but for everybody.

00:37:00.100 So I definitely recommend anybody interested, check that out.

00:37:03.960 So I feel like I'm kind of here with a COSA expert a little bit.

00:37:07.980 Oh, thank you.

00:37:10.000 I watched a lot of TikToks for that episode.

00:37:13.120 So some might call me an expert.

00:37:15.580 Yes.

00:37:15.860 So here's what's going on. So this week, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced his support

00:37:21.420 for COSA. The bill also secured 15 new sponsors, including Schumer, for a total of 62 co-sponsors

00:37:28.760 in the Senate, which would give the bill enough votes to pass in the Senate. So we're actually a

00:37:33.080 lot closer to this bill becoming reality. Earlier, when this bill was first introduced,

00:37:38.800 y'all might remember that LGBTQ rights groups had been loudly objecting to COSA because of

00:37:44.140 provisions that could be interpreted specifically at the state level by attorneys general as

00:37:48.480 defining what kind of content is harmful to children. You know, after talking about what

00:37:53.360 happened to next, it doesn't take a fortune teller to assume that it would probably include lawmakers

00:37:59.320 and attorneys general being like, oh, it is content pertaining to LGBTQ people that is harmful and

00:38:06.280 thus needs to be, you know, kept from youth on the internet. We don't even really have to like

00:38:11.320 speculate because Marsha Blackburn and the Heritage Foundation very clearly and explicitly stated

00:38:18.080 their intentions to use COSA to censor LGBTQ content. So this is not me like gleaning or

00:38:25.060 reading tea leaves. This is me just listening to the words that they said in very plain,

00:38:28.800 explicit, clear English. So that's why LGBTQ groups were not down with COSA initially.

00:38:34.060 But this week, The Hill reports that several LGBTQ advocacy organizations

00:38:38.000 dropped their opposition to the Kids Online Safety Act after the sponsors updated the text,

00:38:43.880 inching the bill even closer to passing. So the groups include GLAAD, GLSEN, the Human Rights

00:38:49.320 Campaign, PFLAG, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, the National Center for Transgender

00:38:53.640 Equality, and the Trevor Project. All of these groups got together and sent a letter to Blumenthal,

00:38:58.780 one of the sponsors of this bill, withdrawing their opposition following updates to the

00:39:03.380 legislation. The letter reads, when COSA was first introduced, we had serious concerns that

00:39:09.040 the bill could open the door to bad actors weaponizing the law to suppress affirming

00:39:13.260 content for LGBTQ young people. Some early supporters of COSA even touted this is how

00:39:18.440 they intended to use the law. The considerable changes that you have proposed to COSA in the

00:39:22.820 draft released on February 15th significantly mitigate the risk of being misused to suppress

00:39:27.720 LGBTQ plus resources or stifle young people's access to online communities. As such, if this

00:39:34.160 draft of the bill moves forward, our organizations will not oppose its passage. So yeah, I guess some

00:39:40.220 of these LGBTQ plus advocacy organizations are like, listen, if this moves on and becomes the

00:39:45.380 law of the land, we will no longer object. Yeah. I don't know. I'm still, I feel like if you were

00:39:55.820 creating a law and the intention of the law that you create when you create is to block

00:40:02.660 kids and teenagers aspects to anything to do with like queerness or any like gender nonconformity or

00:40:10.540 anything uh in my opinion it's kind of hard to redeem that and to find a way to be like no

00:40:17.540 actually we fixed it so it's not homophobic and transphobic anymore uh because like that's the

00:40:23.600 point of the bill that you like you you outright said that this is why you're making this bill and

00:40:28.880 I don't like what's the point of I don't know and but yeah I guess you know I guess at least

00:40:34.260 it won't be suppressing queer content anymore it'll just be suppressing every other issue 0.84

00:40:40.820 that we have you know going on in the world right now which is yes yes exactly so one of the

00:40:49.580 LGBTQ advocacy organizations' big beef with the previous draft of the bill was the bill's duty

00:40:55.640 of care standard, which was meant to mitigate the promotion of harmful content and the use of

00:41:00.620 harmful or addictive features for teens and kids online. But again, could be interpreted to deem

00:41:06.080 anything involving, you know, LGBTQ content as harmful and thus kept away from kids, right? So 0.90

00:41:12.520 like it just had a pretty broad interpretation of what harmful content was and kind of left it up

00:41:17.840 to states to decide what is or is not harmful content. So in this updated version of the bill,

00:41:22.820 the duty of care is clarified to focus on the design features and components of the platform

00:41:27.720 rather than on the content posted on those platforms. There is also a new bit added that

00:41:33.540 says that the provisions in the bill cannot be the basis of any action brought by a state

00:41:37.880 attorney general under a state law. So I can see how they're trying to tinker with it so that it's

00:41:42.300 not just like left up to, you know, specific attorneys generals at the state level to decide

00:41:50.740 how to interpret this law. So this is tricky, right? Like I do agree that some of these changes

00:41:56.960 made make the bill less obviously horrible. I will be the first person to acknowledge that.

00:42:03.700 However, I am still like you, Joey, just kind of not buying it. And this is my opinion. So like

00:42:10.480 take that for what it's worth. I think that COSA is still a bill that will lead to all of us having

00:42:16.880 to give over more information and more data in the name of keeping kids safe. Namely, I'm talking

00:42:23.100 about age restrictions. Local governments already sell our private information and data to data

00:42:28.640 brokers, right? Like we know this. So I am to believe that requiring children and also everyone

00:42:33.320 else to give over more data to tech companies and our government IDs is going to keep us safe

00:42:40.860 and keep our data more private. I'm sorry. I simply do not believe this. It's not a circle

00:42:48.600 that I can square. I simply do not believe it. I am completely against age restrictions in this way

00:42:53.640 because I don't think it makes sense to hand over more of our data to tech companies in order to

00:42:58.760 achieve better data privacy. It just does not make sense to me, does not compute. If somebody

00:43:03.040 smarter than me out there doesn't agree and wants to explain to me how this is actually keeping

00:43:08.460 anybody safer i would love to hear it but from my understanding i just cannot see how it actually

00:43:13.860 will yeah i think especially like the u.s is so we do not have data privacy laws and like we

00:43:23.000 are so behind on that like in comparison to like europe or whatever so it's like

00:43:27.140 it's so it's so especially kind of almost like insulting to like have this bill be introduced

00:43:34.260 and be like framed as this thing that's about safety but like it's it's just making the actual

00:43:39.140 safety concern like more dangerous and more like likely to happen to you i don't know again i feel

00:43:45.560 like this is and i said this in the episode that i did with smithy like imagine having to put your

00:43:50.160 full name and like your id and put all that in when you just want to use the internet like i

00:43:56.580 don't know. That just seems to be not a good thing, in my opinion. But yeah, again, I guess

00:44:03.300 that's not universal that we all want data privacy, I guess. I don't know.

00:44:09.380 Well, you know what, Shoei? You and I are not the only people who feel this way.

00:44:13.260 In a piece called Don't Fall for the Latest Changes to the Dangerous Kids Online Safety Act,

00:44:17.860 on the Electronic Frontier Foundation's blog, which we'll link to in the show notes,

00:44:21.260 they argue exactly that, right? They say that this updated version of the bill is still a vehicle for

00:44:26.480 online censorship and increased surveillance, which we already know deeply impacts marginalized

00:44:32.380 communities. So they write, in light of the overall politicization of youth education and

00:44:37.320 online activity, we believe the following groups, just to name a few, will be endangered.

00:44:41.900 LGBTQ plus youth will be at risk of having content, educational material, and their own

00:44:46.320 online identities erased. Young people searching for sexual health and reproductive rights

00:44:50.380 information will find their search results stymied. Teens and children in historically

00:44:54.620 oppressed and marginalized groups will be unable to locate information about their history and

00:44:58.840 shared experiences. Activist youth on either side of the aisle, such as those fighting for changes

00:45:03.760 to climate laws, gun laws, or religious rights, will be siloed and unable to advocate and connect

00:45:08.420 on platforms. Young people seeking mental health help and information will be blocked from finding

00:45:13.100 it because even discussions of suicide, depression, anxiety, and eating disorders will be hidden from

00:45:17.440 them. Teens hoping to combat the problem of addiction, either their own or that of friends

00:45:21.600 and families and neighbors will not have the resources they need to do so, any young person

00:45:25.840 seeking truthful news or information that can be considered depressing will find it harder to

00:45:30.480 educate themselves and engage in current events and honest discussion. Adults in any of these

00:45:35.560 groups who are unwilling to share identities will find themselves shunted onto a second-class

00:45:40.260 internet alongside the young people who have been denied access to this information. They go on to

00:45:46.100 say, we shouldn't kid ourselves that the latest version of COSA will stop state officials from

00:45:50.620 targeting vulnerable communities. And COSA leaves all of the bill's sensorial powers with the FTC,

00:45:56.360 a five-person commission nominated by the president. This allows a small group of federal

00:46:00.900 officials appointed by the president to decide what content is dangerous for young people.

00:46:05.640 Placing this enforcement power with the FTC is still a First Amendment problem. No government

00:46:10.700 official, state or federal, has the power to dictate by law what people can read online.

00:46:16.100 And that blog post really confirms my feelings on this legislation, even the updated version.

00:46:23.800 Like, I understand that these groups that I respect and that I think do good work are saying that they largely no longer take issue with it in the way they did before.

00:46:32.640 But I still think it's pretty scary.

00:46:34.760 And I just I am doing a bit of future casting, imagining another Trump presidency where President Trump has the ability to nominate this five person FTC commission and essentially can decide what people can read and post about online.

00:46:52.260 It is pretty scary.

00:46:53.260 It is. And I think even beyond just thinking about the future, like we're in the middle of a like crackdown on on information and content that's coming out about Palestine and about what's happening in Palestine and a crackdown on protesters.

00:47:10.160 um like in in new york where i live there have been multiple incidents of protesters

00:47:17.120 they're being attacked by counter protesters and like kind of not you know that the police

00:47:24.100 kind of clearly taking a side and letting certain actions slide versus others or instances where

00:47:30.520 people were being arrested just for using slogans or for putting up stickers like this isn't there's

00:47:36.500 an active crackdown on free speech that is happening under this administration and um I

00:47:43.200 think this is why like this I'm disappointed but not surprised and I think in a lot of these like

00:47:49.440 LGBT organizations because I think there really is which is this is a whole other conversation

00:47:54.920 about kind of mainstream LGBTQ plus like non-profits and all that but I think like

00:48:01.420 what's happening is kind of a lack of a refusal to show solidarity with other marginalized groups

00:48:08.120 because it's almost like saying like okay we have a little bit of reassurance that this isn't going

00:48:11.820 to affect us but like we're gonna let it happen to other people and although you know and all

00:48:15.620 these groups intersect too you know lots of lots of queer people deal with mental health issues a

00:48:20.080 lot of queer people also deal with issues of like you know other like oppression because they're

00:48:25.320 other like part of our other marginalized groups as well um yeah i something i i saw talking about

00:48:32.240 this latest uh update brought up something that i i hadn't really thought about it this way but it

00:48:39.020 the this the speaker was talking about how like cosa comes from this place where it's the assumption

00:48:48.080 is that social media and the internet is bad for children full stop like there's no benefits from

00:48:52.980 um and they were like encouraging people to share stories about how social media or the internet has

00:48:58.900 helped them because like it's helped them get out of you know like a difficult situation or find

00:49:03.260 community and all that and i think like and we've talked about in the show like i i personally have

00:49:07.880 like found a lot of community through the internet uh i've also experienced a lot of the bad sides of

00:49:12.980 the internet but i've seen the good too it has also helped me deal with you know mental health

00:49:18.100 issue like you know depression and all that in the past uh that being said I also you know can

00:49:24.620 see how it's made certain issues worse and particularly like I I don't know like I I was

00:49:30.300 on tumblr when like there was a lot of glorification of like eating disorders but also the internet

00:49:35.420 yeah like but but it ultimately is just kind of a it's like we've created this new like space for

00:49:42.380 people to be and it's it's hard to you know just sort of preventing people from talking about

00:49:49.280 things full stop because they can lead to harmful things happening or or complicated discussions or

00:49:56.940 whatever like that doesn't that's not effective and again like when you especially when you list

00:50:03.720 out all of these things are still going to be affected by this legislation it's so clear to

00:50:07.000 Like, yeah, like, you know, the Heritage Foundation might not be super happy that it's going to be a little bit harder for them to repress queer content.

00:50:16.280 But they also have they have stakes in trying to repress content about reproductive health and sexual health and about, you know, certain activist groups or our struggles or whatever.

00:50:29.660 Like there's still kind of a political motivation there that I think has really scary implications for all of us and really scary implications for just like freedom of speech in general.

00:50:40.920 Yeah, I'm glad that you phrased it that way. And I want to be clear. I don't I don't think that any president should have the power to like pick the five person group who gets to decide like what issues are OK and what issues aren't.

00:50:53.100 But I think that there might, I guess I say that to say that, like, I think there might be people, I am not one of them, but I think there might be people listening who are like, well, you know, Biden would be fine. If Biden had that power, it would be okay. And the answer is no, it wouldn't be okay. Because as you said, there is currently a crackdown on all kinds of speech and all kinds of political and social expressions with Biden in the White House.

00:51:16.300 So, no, that's not the case. But also, like, no president should have that power, full stop. And I think you're exactly right that against the backdrop of, I don't know, I can only really call it like a very chilling era of a crackdown on free expression happening before our very eyes, but in this like almost gaslighting way where it's like, no, it's not. What are you talking about?

00:51:42.280 Like, you know what I mean? It's like a very weird time.

00:51:47.260 I'm sorry, Bridget. Are you saying that with Biden as president, we can't just go back to brunch?

00:51:52.260 We can just go back to brunch. Listen, if Biden was in the White House, I wouldn't be in the streets. I would be at brunch, Joey.

00:51:58.380 Oh, my God, of course. Everything's fine. Everything's great.

00:52:06.320 More after a quick break.

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00:52:52.680 Call 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart. When I was 14 years old,

00:53:00.600 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how

00:53:07.120 other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the

00:53:12.940 Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say 0.94

00:53:21.140 anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up

00:53:28.620 without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my

00:53:35.500 bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly

00:53:42.020 silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it

00:53:47.680 takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the

00:53:53.340 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:02.920 Let's get right back into it.

00:54:05.500 Okay, so speaking of everything being on fire and awful, I regret to inform you that new

00:54:13.700 AI-generated deepfakes have just dropped. I almost didn't include this because

00:54:19.700 Lord, am I tired of talking about this. I hope the day comes that I can shut up about this and

00:54:26.140 it doesn't have to be something I'm talking about all the time. But unfortunately, that day is not

00:54:29.780 today. Because podcaster Bobbi Althoff, do you know Bobbi Althoff? Her thing is kind of like,

00:54:35.500 People call her, like, a Nepo baby or an industry plant.

00:54:38.440 Her thing is kind of, like, doing cringy, kind of awkward interviews with, like, rappers.

00:54:44.900 Do you know, Bobby?

00:54:45.740 I don't, but I do get a lot of those, like, TikToks where it's, like, a random clip from a podcast that seems like it would be this kind of thing.

00:54:53.740 Okay, so you've probably seen Bobby's podcast clip.

00:54:56.280 So, Bobby is just the latest target of viral AI, non-consensual deepfake videos, specifically on Twitter.

00:55:04.320 So as we've talked about on the show, this has happened a lot before.

00:55:07.260 Unfortunately, it happened to Taylor Swift.

00:55:08.840 It happened to Marvel star Social Gomez.

00:55:11.380 Social Gomez is 17, so a minor.

00:55:13.960 And with all of these viral deep fakes, all of them have really gotten a lot of traction,

00:55:19.340 specifically on Twitter.

00:55:20.480 And now a new report in the Washington Post is shedding light on why Twitter has kind

00:55:24.700 of become the platform for deep fakes going viral.

00:55:28.580 Now, I have to say, none of this is terribly surprising to me.

00:55:31.460 if you listen to this podcast none of this is probably terribly surprising to you uh it is the

00:55:35.920 kind of thing that like i wonder what it is i wonder what the problem is i mean i'm sure you

00:55:42.280 could guess honestly i truly was going to add in a clip from an earlier podcast episode that we did

00:55:48.180 when elon musk first took over twitter and started making changes because literally i was like oh

00:55:53.760 well this is going to happen this is going to happen this is going to happen i thought that

00:55:57.300 would sound very obnoxious and probably like too smug because nobody likes somebody who says i

00:56:02.180 told you so but listeners just know i could have added that if i wanted to because it exists because

00:56:07.760 you didn't have to be a fortune teller or a mind reader to tell the hell that the changes that

00:56:13.920 elon musk made were was going to lead to on twitter oh yeah i think i think you get to say i told you

00:56:19.780 so yeah you know what i'm gonna say it hey elon musk i told you so so just like those taylor swift

00:56:28.060 images the images of bobby alpha started on message boards so not on twitter when they first

00:56:33.860 started on message boards they had a relatively small audience the post reports the videos got

00:56:38.520 178 000 views over the last six months on message boards like 4chan but then someone brought those

00:56:44.840 videos to Twitter where they blew up this week. It was reposted so many times that Althoff's name

00:56:50.580 was trending on the platform. In just nine hours, the clip received more than 4.5 million views,

00:56:56.760 25 times more than the porn site's viewership, according to data from an industry analyst.

00:57:02.660 So one of the most popular posts on Twitter directing viewers to the video remained online

00:57:07.800 for more than 30 hours. Another post, which promised to send the full Bobby Althoff leaks

00:57:12.960 to everyone who like and comment was online for 20 hours. Twitter only removed it after the

00:57:18.360 Washington Post reached out to them for a comment on the fake videos. By the time the video was

00:57:23.780 removed, it had been viewed more than 5 million times. So this is obviously a problem. And Twitter

00:57:29.160 is a unique platform when it comes to how and why deepfakes spread so easily. So even though

00:57:35.360 Twitter was one of the first platforms to outright ban synthetic AI-generated content and deepfakes,

00:57:42.380 This was long before Musk took over back in 2020.

00:57:45.540 Twitter executives said that they recognized the threat of misleading synthetic media and they were committed to doing this right.

00:57:50.780 But when Elon Musk took over, changes that he made early on to Twitter have basically gone on to make Twitter not just a place where people post deepfakes,

00:58:00.860 but also a place where people can be ensured that their deepfakes will get lots of traction and lots of eyeballs.

00:58:06.800 Like, seriously, go back and listen to some of our earlier episodes.

00:58:09.940 You didn't have to be a genius or a rocket scientist to figure this out.

00:58:13.600 So here's how the post reports it.

00:58:15.520 Under owner Elon Musk, X has now become one of the most powerful and prominent distribution

00:58:20.120 channels for non-consensual deepfake porn.

00:58:22.860 The platform not only helps the phony photos and videos go viral in a low moderation environment,

00:58:27.940 but it can also end up rewarding deepfake spreaders who use manipulated porn to make

00:58:33.760 a buck.

00:58:34.260 So the way that Elon is running Twitter has basically turned the platform into a deep fake marketplace and also advertising machine where bad actors can make money by exploiting women through these gross fake photos.

00:58:47.420 If there is one thing that I hope that people take away from this bit of the show is that it is not just creeps posting gross, fake images of women.

00:58:57.540 It is creeps who are making money posting fake images of women. 0.81

00:59:01.780 And Twitter is enabling them to do so more effectively by giving them money for doing it and by essentially allowing them to market and advertise their creepy, gross, fake images of women.

00:59:12.040 So to be clear, in my book, both Twitter and Elon Musk personally are complicit in a criminal money making enterprise. Like, that is how I see this. I don't see it as just disparate creeps posting deep fake images. To me, this is a criminal money making enterprise that Elon Musk is actively engaged in.

00:59:34.140 So here's how the whole thing works.

00:59:35.560 So y'all know that Twitter blue subscribers that get a blue check are paying to, in part,

00:59:40.440 have their content get more visibility on Twitter.

00:59:42.560 And because Twitter offers payouts for posts that get lots of engagements and lots of views

00:59:47.380 on the platform, many of the people sharing those deepfake videos of Bobby have a blue

00:59:52.460 checkmark, which also means that they could be making money from that video.

00:59:56.340 That is, if Elon Musk actually pays, as he says he is.

00:59:59.340 We've talked about that quite a bit.

01:00:00.860 And you even have people who are trying to boost the video's engagement by tweeting that it's the, quote, real leaked Bobby footage as if to tell people like, oh, yeah, there's like fake Bobby videos floating around, but I have the real Bobby video.

01:00:15.020 You're going to want to click here to see this real content or saying like, we'll DM the longer real video to anybody who shares this because the more people who share and engage, the more money they stand to make from Elon Musk's, you know, payment program.

01:00:29.980 And so these people are really exploiting Twitter's lax rules, moderation and pay to play engagement mechanisms to essentially create trailers to put on Twitter to get people to buy longer deep fake videos, which is why they're not keeping them on 4chan.

01:00:46.920 So like a lot of these videos and all of this content, it starts on 4chan and then it gets like, you know, kind of a niche audience. But the reason why they're putting them on Twitter is because they want more people to see it because they have a marketplace. They then will like ask people to give them money in order to get more deepfake images. So essentially it's like a coming attractions for AI generated exploitative deepfakes of women.

01:01:12.360 One person was offering to sell a longer fake video of Bobby for $10 payable via PayPal, according to the Washington Post. So this is like a business enterprise complete with advertising, platform support and payment processors like PayPal.

01:01:27.600 So we already have platforms like 4chan, which are, you know, message boards known for this kind of harmful content that are kind of fringe. But Twitter used to be very different from 4chan, right, before Musk took over it. It's where journalists and elected officials are posting content.

01:01:43.860 So the fact that we're seeing Twitter kind of become more like 4chan under Elon Musk

01:01:50.000 is really telling to me, right?

01:01:51.940 Like, it really seems like if this is going to be the kind of stuff that is tolerated

01:01:56.780 on Twitter, it really says a lot about how far Twitter has fallen under Elon Musk's leadership.

01:02:02.640 Genevieve Oh, an analyst who studies deepfakes, says that Twitter is 4chan too.

01:02:07.720 It's emboldening future malicious figures to coordinate toward demeaning more popular 0.54

01:02:11.580 women with synthetic footage and imagery. So I should say Twitter technically does ban 1.00

01:02:18.100 non-consensual nudity, but there was basically no enforcement of that because the team that

01:02:23.740 handles it, Musk basically fired and laid off and gutted as soon as he took over. And I also

01:02:29.400 just think that Elon Musk just doesn't care. He could not signal that more. If he says he cares,

01:02:36.100 I think that he is lying because he knows that people are upset. But I just genuinely don't

01:02:40.980 think he sees this as the big issue and the big threat that it is. Elon Musk doesn't care about

01:02:48.140 women. What? I know. I'm so surprised. He seems like the kind of guy who would have a stellar 0.78

01:02:55.320 track record when it comes to respecting women. Absolutely. That is definitely what I associate

01:03:01.220 him with. A hundred percent. So after the Taylor Swift deepfakes went viral, y'all might recall

01:03:07.040 that Musk was like, I'm going to open a whole team in Austin dedicated to content moderation

01:03:12.260 for Twitter. But the day before these Bobby Althoff videos went viral, Musk was just laughing

01:03:19.460 off the need for any kind of real content moderations. He shared a post that called

01:03:23.860 content moderation a, quote, digital chastity belt and a steaming pile of horse manure enforced only

01:03:30.220 by digital tyrants, saying, let's give a big middle finger to content moderation and embrace 1.00

01:03:35.580 the chaos of the internet you know who probably does not want to embrace this chaos women like 0.98

01:03:41.120 taylor swift and social gomez and bobby althoff and any other woman or girl who has been targeted 0.87

01:03:46.620 and depicted in these non-consensual images it is just such a clown show over there like

01:03:53.260 the fact that bobby althoff's name was trending on twitter in relation to this was wild to me like

01:03:58.880 the trends used to be moderated by humans who could like manually delete trends that were harmful or

01:04:05.060 rule-breaking. But of course, Musk fired the people who do that. So now a woman's name can

01:04:09.460 be trending for hours on the platform. And the reason why it is trending is because of deep 0.99

01:04:14.820 fake images of her on the platform. It's basically free advertising for this rule-breaking behavior. 1.00

01:04:21.660 And something else unique about Twitter is that it's the only platform that allows nudity.

01:04:27.820 So with the rise of AI deepfakes, I don't know. I just think that I don't know that Twitter is

01:04:33.060 going to be able to really be responsible for sorting out what is consensual real nudity and

01:04:38.380 what isn't i just don't think they're really up for the task yeah and it's it's a conscious choice

01:04:45.760 that they're not up for the task i think it's important to remember because again like they

01:04:49.800 this is a problem that could be fixed if they uh you know or at least sort of alleviated to some

01:04:57.380 extent, I think, if they really wanted to. And it's clear that they do not care.

01:05:02.400 I completely agree. And this is just my opinion. And I would be curious to know what folks think.

01:05:07.040 I have a sense that whoever is making these deep fakes and then releasing them on Twitter

01:05:14.280 specifically is choosing like a specific kind of public figure. I think they're choosing

01:05:21.200 famous women who are perceived to be like annoying in some way and i think it's i think it's about 0.98

01:05:27.840 kind of like almost like a test of like well you know this woman is annoying or like she's 1.00

01:05:36.280 everywhere she's like oversaturated so if i make a a cruel sexually humiliating deepfake of her 1.00

01:05:43.340 maybe people will like like it like i almost i almost feel like there's something about the

01:05:48.520 women that they're targeting that is like, I don't know, maybe I'm way off base here.

01:05:53.560 I think they're picking a specific kind of female public figure because they're not expecting

01:05:58.560 the public to loudly decry it when it's someone who is perceived as like, quote, overexposed.

01:06:07.840 So I think I'm curious to see how this goes. I think that nobody deserves this. I think that

01:06:13.220 even if it's somebody that you think like, oh, this person is a billionaire, this person's very

01:06:17.560 rich. I see them everywhere, blah, blah, blah. Nobody deserves this, right? It's completely

01:06:22.300 fine to not like somebody without making sexually humiliating content of them that is meant to take

01:06:32.040 them down, humiliate them, objectify them, and remind them and the public that they do not have

01:06:38.200 agency over their body and their choices. And so I think it's disgusting. I think it's even more 0.96

01:06:43.220 discussing that Elon Musk is essentially laughing this off as his platform becomes a unique vector

01:06:49.000 for advertising this this kind of material and I think that Elon Musk at some point needs to be

01:06:54.840 held accountable for this like he can read this Washington Post article as well as I can and see

01:07:00.020 how his choices have specifically turned the platform into a marketplace for this kind of

01:07:05.300 behavior and yeah I guess I'll just leave it there yeah I want to add one more thing which I think

01:07:11.300 Also, it's especially with like, you know, talking about Kosa earlier on the episode, the problem isn't nudity.

01:07:18.600 The problem isn't explicit material.

01:07:20.720 The problem is the fact that this is taken without consent.

01:07:24.900 This is material that is like literally manufactured without any consent, without any action on behalf of the person.

01:07:34.720 It's like for like like I don't know.

01:07:37.760 I mean, this is again, like this is another discussion, but like I'm of the belief that like whatever like porn exists on the Internet, nudity exists, people like should, you know, be able to access that.

01:07:50.600 i think that is like a fair thing to say um but like the part of this that is disgusting and

01:07:58.120 messed up is the fact that it is non-consensual and the fact that these are again oftentimes the

01:08:04.200 same people that are you know supporting or like participating in efforts to crack down on sex

01:08:11.740 workers that you know if you really just wanted to have like more porn in the world you would

01:08:17.220 think he would just support sex workers and people that do that stuff professionally but um yeah it's

01:08:24.840 not like the problem here is it and I think this is important to clarify against you with especially

01:08:29.180 talking about the COSA story because I think that isn't like I can easily see how this sort of story

01:08:33.960 would be twisted to be like see we just need to get rid of all no the problem is like this is an

01:08:39.360 issue with deep fakes this is an issue with uh a lack of respect for boundaries and consent

01:08:46.800 and uh you know this is about sexual violence this is not a condemnation of the fact that you know

01:08:54.720 people are being portrayed a certain way or that nudity is like making its way onto these platforms

01:09:01.040 you know yeah absolutely and we actually talked about this last week how like creeps are also

01:09:07.600 using ai to like make reverse deep fakes that are also not okay were they women who consensually

01:09:13.340 want to be in various stages of undress on the internet, they use AI to cover them up. It is not 0.96

01:09:19.080 about sexuality. It is not about nudity. It is about taking away someone's agency without their

01:09:26.240 consent. It's about telling them that their choices for their own body don't matter because

01:09:29.720 we have the technology to strip you from that choice. And like you said, Joey, if you want to

01:09:34.860 see nudity on the internet, God love them, there are no less than a million people out there who

01:09:40.340 are in various stages of undress on the internet. But it's not really about that, right? It is about

01:09:44.840 I want this person who has not given me consent, I want them to know that I can depict them nude

01:09:51.780 on the internet against their will without their consent. It is about power. It is about humiliation.

01:09:56.960 It is about stripping women of their agency, not about like expressions of sexuality or nudity, 0.70

01:10:03.060 like full stop. So I do have a little bit of good Twitter news for folks. So back when Elon Musk

01:10:09.700 first bought Twitter and laid off a bunch of staffers, he was particularly cruel to the staff

01:10:14.200 in Ghana, Africa. The Twitter office in Ghana had just been set up, so many of these staffers had

01:10:19.400 moved from other countries to take jobs at Twitter, only to be let go with no notice a few months in

01:10:24.980 after Elon took over. They were promised a month of wages under their contract, and under Ghanaian

01:10:30.920 employment law, staff have to be paid out if they are laid off for redundancy, which these staffers

01:10:36.260 were. But as y'all know, Elon Musk, aka Shereishi, don't pay. He doesn't pay. He doesn't pay his

01:10:43.300 bills. He owes money all over town and doesn't pay. So these staffers threatened to sue to get

01:10:48.600 their money. Twitter missed deadline after deadline and essentially ghosted them, probably

01:10:54.020 thinking that these Ghanaian Twitter staffers would just shut up and go away. But they didn't 0.57

01:11:00.580 shut up and go away so after a year they finally have gotten their payout one of the staffers says

01:11:06.820 it is difficult when the world's richest man is owing you money and closure i have to say like 0.96

01:11:12.020 shout out to these staffers for staying on it i'm happy they got their money but i also have to say 0.96

01:11:17.040 like watching elon musk do rich guy shit like oh i'm going to mars oh i'm gonna do this i'm gonna 0.98

01:11:23.240 do that while he is at her owing you money that would chap my ass but i guess it's like easy to 1.00

01:11:29.680 do a bunch of rich guy shit when you don't pay your bills when you can rack up a bunch of bills 0.99

01:11:33.780 and not pay yeah how uh do you expect him to get so rich if he has to pay for things like bills and 0.99

01:11:43.340 labor and i don't know that's just too much for one guy i mean i can like go to a restaurant and

01:11:51.380 like pop bottles and you know get a private jet if i don't have to pay for it anybody anybody can

01:11:57.000 And if that's if that's the secret to living a wealthy lifestyle, like anybody can do that.

01:12:00.920 Just go rack up a bunch of bills and just not pay.

01:12:04.600 And I have to give a major shout out to CNN's Larry Madowo for really staying on this story.

01:12:11.440 He first reported it back when Elon Musk took over Twitter and stayed on this beat.

01:12:16.280 So thank you for helping to get this accountability, Larry.

01:12:19.360 And I have one other quick piece of good news kind of for me specifically, which is that

01:12:24.940 I feel like, you know, I've been trying to use alternatives to Twitter, like Blue Sky and threads more.

01:12:32.040 And I feel like I have gotten my first truly good bit of Blue Sky low stakes drama that, Joey, if you will, we opened this episode with me explaining some drama to you.

01:12:43.320 I would love to close with explaining a little bit of low stakes drama to you, if that's OK.

01:12:48.000 Of course. Always here for the drama.

01:12:49.800 uh so someone on blue sky there they unfortunately had a death in their family and they posted a

01:12:56.720 picture of a woman who was wearing like a big hat and sunglasses who came to the funeral and this

01:13:02.020 person was like um this person crashed my family member's funeral and they ate a bunch of free food

01:13:07.960 and it wasn't until my family went up to them and was like hey who who do you know here like how

01:13:12.440 did you know the deceased that we realized they were a funeral crasher i'm so angry and rather

01:13:18.080 than people being like yeah that's really messed up for someone to do this there a lot of people

01:13:24.500 were like well what if they just wanted a meal what if they were just lonely you're so rude

01:13:29.200 not letting this person crash the funeral oh no wait no this is this is just i uh it's the twitter

01:13:39.300 thing where if you're not oh my god no so this is how i feel like i know that blue sky might

01:13:45.280 actually be popping because we've gotten our first like truly deranged group response to 0.99

01:13:51.340 somebody's like very legitimate complaint like what kind of asshole doesn't want a stranger at 0.83

01:13:56.060 a family funeral like so i think i think i don't know it lifted my spirits to see this i was like 0.98

01:14:01.920 oh yeah nature is healing we're having this kind of discourse again um and so yeah maybe blue sky

01:14:07.580 really will be popping now that it is a place to have truly deranged discourse in one place.

01:14:15.900 You know what? It is a pillar of our society and I'm glad that's continuing. I'm glad I'm

01:14:22.140 getting to hear everybody's unsolicited takes. Oh my God. Yes. Give me your bad takes. I want

01:14:30.700 them to wash over me. Joey, one person whose takes I always think are good are yours. Thank

01:14:36.860 you so much for being here and helping us break down these stories of course bridget uh happy to

01:14:42.060 be here as always where can folks keep up with what you're up to um you can find me on social

01:14:48.820 media at um you know on instagram and twitter for the moment uh did not yet make a blue sky

01:14:56.580 but i should be doing that soon um but yeah you can find me at pat not pratt that's p-a-t-t-n-o-t 0.77

01:15:02.460 P-R-A-T-T 0.59

01:15:03.580 you can also

01:15:06.160 check out Afterlives

01:15:07.940 the Laylee and Polanco story

01:15:09.360 it's a series that I just worked on

01:15:11.640 that wrapped up about a month ago

01:15:13.760 check out that

01:15:16.340 Sminty episode that's going to be

01:15:18.160 in the notes

01:15:19.080 but yeah, I'm everywhere

01:15:22.440 so check out Joey's work

01:15:24.180 and thanks to all of you for listening

01:15:25.820 I will see you on the internet

01:15:31.100 if you're looking for ways

01:15:32.080 to support the show,

01:15:33.220 check out our merch store

01:15:34.160 at tangody.com slash store.

01:15:36.980 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech

01:15:39.020 or just want to say hi?

01:15:40.480 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.

01:15:42.860 You can also find transcripts

01:15:43.900 for today's episode at tangody.com. 1.00

01:15:46.180 There Are No Girls on the Internet

01:15:47.080 was created by me, Bridget Todd.

01:15:48.900 It's a production of iHeartRadio

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - February 24, 2024

Who the F did she marry!？; Instamom exploitation; Bobbi Althoff deep fakes flood Twitter; What we know about Nex Benedict’s death – NEWS ROUNDUP

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