There Are No Girls on the Internet - Why trad wife content is taking over social media right now (with Under the Influence's Jo Piazza)

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00:00:43.740 welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone

00:00:49.960 who thinks pride and prejudice and love island to serve the same level of discourse each week

00:00:54.500 we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite

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00:01:28.520 orders only other fees and terms apply when the world is a disaster people want nostalgia even 0.95

00:01:35.600 if it's a false nostalgia and this nostalgia for a quote-unquote better time when women were

00:01:42.800 quote-unquote traditional is really obscenely misplaced

00:01:46.320 there are no girls on the internet as a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative

00:01:58.960 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 0.69

00:02:04.100 If you're a woman, listen up, because I need to tell you something kind of important.

00:02:09.160 It turns out we have all been tricked. 0.83

00:02:12.560 Oh, yes. 0.99

00:02:13.720 Feminism was a lie, and it was just a scam to get us working outside of the home so we could provide more taxable income to the government. 1.00

00:02:21.600 It turns out that we were much better off back in the 50s as traditional housewives. 1.00

00:02:26.020 Think about it. 0.89

00:02:26.940 We didn't have to work outside of the home, and we could spend all of our time raising our kids and running a household.

00:02:33.020 And we were so much happier back then, too.

00:02:36.060 You know, back when we as women couldn't own property, couldn't vote, couldn't take out a credit card. 0.96

00:02:41.340 Oh, and it was also legal for our spouses to rape us.

00:02:44.720 So if you spend any time at all on TikTok, you're probably seeing an influx of this kind of content,

00:02:50.000 which is commonly called trad wife content, short for traditional wife, that posits that women

00:02:55.960 weren't just happier, but also we were more empowered when we stayed at home and embraced

00:03:00.880 more traditional gendered roles in the household. And I believe that this is not a coincidence.

00:03:06.480 Against the backdrop of some pretty scary and heavy political and social happenings,

00:03:11.080 things like economic instability, impending climate crisis, which always disproportionately

00:03:15.680 harms women more, the gunning of Roe versus Wade, and the loss of the right to control our own

00:03:20.540 bodies. I think content like this does two things. One, it responds to and exploits the understandable

00:03:27.460 fear and anxiety that a lot of women are feeling, particularly in the absence of any kind of a

00:03:33.000 meaningful institutional support. And I also think it's kind of meant to soothe us in a way.

00:03:38.060 You know, don't be too angry, ladies. You were much better off without rights anyway. 0.97

00:03:42.340 But all of this content is just a depiction of a fantasy life that never even really existed. 0.55

00:03:49.440 And it's yet another way that social media is trying to sell women on a dangerous lie.

00:03:55.700 I'm Jo Piazza, and I'm an author, journalist, and podcaster,

00:04:00.400 most recently the host of the podcast called Under the Influence.

00:04:05.220 On Jo's great podcast, Under the Influence,

00:04:07.280 she chronicles how the business and culture of influencing social media and the internet has

00:04:12.500 impacted women. And right now, a lot of what she's seeing includes trad wife content.

00:04:18.200 So your podcast is amazing. And that was one of the reasons why I was so excited to talk to you

00:04:23.160 today, because, you know, I've been scrolling social media a lot lately, and I can't seem to 0.92

00:04:28.080 get away from this, like, I guess, trad wife content, this content made by women, that is 0.85

00:04:34.760 Sort of giving us this idea that being a traditional stay-at-home wife and mother is the path to power and happiness for women.

00:04:42.440 Have you seen this content on your feed?

00:04:44.640 Yeah, not only have I seen this content on my feed, but it has been dominating my feed for some reason.

00:04:51.800 I don't, maybe, sometimes I'm like, Instagram knows I'm pregnant and wants to force me to stay home in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant forever.

00:05:01.280 and it thinks you'd be happier if that's how you lived your life

00:05:05.720 and they think i'd be happier and you know so my gut reaction to this is and it's the same as it

00:05:12.320 is with most things if you want to stay home and be a quote-unquote traditional wife and you know

00:05:20.120 take on all of the trappings of domesticity that were popularized by mass media in the 1950s 1.00

00:05:26.680 And this is what you really want. Fucking awesome. You do it. You do you. And my feminism is mostly 0.98

00:05:34.000 centered on women choosing what makes them happy. I do not necessarily think that this is the path

00:05:39.500 to empowerment for the majority of women. But I do think that this is becoming so popular.

00:05:49.480 and we know that Instagram surfaces things that they think will soothe people's addled

00:05:55.780 brains as they make them more addled because the world is kind of a disaster right now

00:06:00.960 and when the world is a disaster people want nostalgia even if it's a false nostalgia 0.95

00:06:07.660 and this nostalgia for a quote-unquote better time when women were quote-unquote traditional

00:06:14.540 is really obscenely misplaced yeah it almost seems like it is painting a fantasy portrait

00:06:21.460 of a time that did not exist because it did you know even for white women back in the day 0.67

00:06:27.320 I'm not necessarily quick to say that they were so happy you know it was like legal for your 0.74

00:06:33.420 spouse to rape you you couldn't own property you couldn't you know take like have your own money

00:06:38.220 like I don't you couldn't have a credit you couldn't have a credit card right and yeah so 0.99

00:06:42.000 I mean, it's most, let's be honest, it's mostly not having a credit card and rape, marital rape. 0.94

00:06:48.320 Right. And so I think it like, it harkens back in a way that paints these times as like really rosy and, yeah, it's like a fantasy world that never even existed even during that time.

00:07:00.760 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And not to mention the fact that it absolutely 100% never even existed in media for Black women and women of lower economic statuses and immigrant women. So, yeah, it's a completely, completely false nostalgia.

00:07:16.940 And I think you hit on something interesting, which is that these TikToks, especially that I see that really seem to be trying to convince women that we've been lied to into thinking that having a job and, you know, working outside of the home is empowering. 0.92

00:07:29.920 It really, for that narrative to work, you basically have to ignore non-white women. 0.60

00:07:35.460 You have to basically say, like, I'm a white woman talking to other white women in a world where people who are not white, if they exist, we're not speaking to them.

00:07:44.640 We're not thinking about their experiences.

00:07:46.600 We're not interrogating that at all.

00:07:48.720 No, no, exactly.

00:07:50.600 The whole idea of a happy woman who enjoyed an idyllic life in the home,

00:07:55.020 tending to her family while her husband did the wage-earning labor, 0.52

00:07:58.320 is just kind of a fantasy. 1.00

00:08:00.740 Obviously, it certainly did not exist for non-white women. 1.00

00:08:04.300 And it kind of didn't even really ever exist for white women either.

00:08:07.660 Or not the way we've been led to believe anyway.

00:08:10.820 In fact, Joe says the entire happy housewife thing

00:08:14.100 was a creation presented by a few specific pieces of mass media that made its way into the culture

00:08:20.200 and just kind of stuck. I mean, the whole trad wife aesthetic really does come from a very narrow

00:08:27.740 sliver of 1950s sitcoms. And we're talking June Cleaver, we're talking daddy, father knows best,

00:08:35.960 daddy knows best. I mean, the shows we saw in Nick at Night as kids, really. And it was mass

00:08:41.100 media telling us that this is what the world looked like. When it didn't look like that for

00:08:47.340 the majority of white women, it never looked like that for black women, women of a lower economic

00:08:53.600 status, immigrant women. And I think, look, we're desperate. We are desperate to cling to something

00:09:01.340 because the world isn't working right now. I don't think that the concept of women working 1.00

00:09:06.080 outside the home I think work has failed all of us not just women work has failed to empower us as

00:09:13.320 a human race right now and so there is this small set of people saying well what if you didn't have

00:09:20.300 to work look at these women who didn't have to work these like three women who didn't have to

00:09:23.840 work in 1954 don't they look so happy in their gingham dresses with their beach waves that they 0.98

00:09:30.700 never could have really gotten in 1954 they do that shit with the dyson hand wand yeah i love 0.97

00:09:38.380 your point that we're even if you're thinking about mass media from the 50s the trad wife stuff 0.96

00:09:43.620 from that was shown there it's only a small like subsection of shows like lucille ball even she

00:09:49.640 wanted to be on the show in or be in in ricky and um desi's show back in the day so like they're not

00:09:56.720 even demonstrating that like it was a a dominant you know a dominant culture never lucy wanted to

00:10:03.600 work lucy was messy lucy was i mean i love lucy i just said i love lucy um because she was 1.00

00:10:11.000 delightfully fucked up in so many ways and she kind of bucked the trend of the trad wife that 0.99

00:10:17.180 was on tv in so many ways you don't see that if you just like you know glance at one episode of 1.00

00:10:22.920 show but she really did and lucille ball in real life was a goddamn baller she owned her brand she 1.00

00:10:27.420 owned her shit she owned her show so that she she was not a trad wife in any way shape or form 0.97

00:10:34.180 but the just the fact that we keep getting served this on instagram and this is not what i want to 0.99

00:10:41.680 be seeing right now i want to be seeing more nap dresses and caftans and frankly i'm just in the 0.98

00:10:50.200 for some fucking cat memes. 0.93

00:10:51.980 I don't want to see it travel. 0.99

00:10:58.320 Let's take a quick break.

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00:11:55.100 if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

00:11:59.060 welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat

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00:14:00.280 And we're back.

00:14:02.820 To be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not working outside of the home

00:14:07.740 or finding enjoyment in the domestic. 0.70

00:14:10.700 But what can be scary are the ways that trad wife content 0.98

00:14:13.740 can present a palatable pipeline

00:14:16.120 for women to be led into extremist ideology. 0.96

00:14:19.980 Yeah, and I think that you make a good point 0.98

00:14:21.700 about the way that it's definitely being like

00:14:23.900 surfaced right now for whatever reason.

00:14:26.880 And I think that's what I think can be

00:14:29.280 kind of almost harmful, right?

00:14:31.420 Like trad wife stuff for me is like a little annoying,

00:14:35.540 a little, I find it a little bit smug,

00:14:36.860 But I know that a lot of that content can really be a pipeline into like more extremist thinking.

00:14:43.040 You know, if you are saying like, oh, well, the world was much better in the 50s and the 40s when, you know, people of color, quote, knew their place and women knew their place.

00:14:52.900 It's like a hop, skip and a jump away from some pretty nasty extremist, you know, ideology.

00:15:01.180 I wouldn't even say it's a hop, skip and a jump.

00:15:03.060 That's giving it too much credit.

00:15:04.040 That's saying that it would take us three steps to get there.

00:15:07.340 I mean, I think we're kind of just teetering on the edge of this dangerous territory. 1.00

00:15:12.720 It's also, for me, very dangerous because it pits two groups of women against each other. 0.97

00:15:19.500 It pits the woman who does stay at home for whatever reason, to take care of her children, 0.99

00:15:25.260 to take care of her home, because she fucking has to, because there's no goddamn child care 0.98

00:15:29.760 in this country against the woman who either chooses to work because she wants to, works 0.99

00:15:35.540 because she has to, and it's setting up this dichotomy that says, oh, like, this life is

00:15:42.020 better than this life, or this woman is so different from you that you are at odds with

00:15:47.180 her, when at the end of the day, we're all doing labor, raising children is labor, making

00:15:52.140 meals, cleaning the house, it's labor, like, neither of these things is necessarily better

00:15:57.460 than the other one yeah that's actually my biggest other than the like extremist ideology

00:16:03.920 that's one of my biggest problems with this kind of trad wife content is that it really I think a

00:16:10.520 lot of times hinges on this aspect of comparison and that's part of it that I don't like I think

00:16:16.140 there's like a smugness to it that's like I figured something out that other women are too 1.00

00:16:21.360 stupid or too shallow to see. And I just feel like if people, like, I think people should do 1.00

00:16:28.660 whatever makes them happy, whatever they can afford to do. You know, I also think there's a

00:16:33.740 kind of, in some of the content, there's a kind of persecution complex, like, oh, I don't want to be

00:16:40.040 on Tinder or in the office or away from my child or having my children in public school, and I'm

00:16:45.200 demonized for it. And I think in 2022, I don't, this is my opinion, I don't necessarily see a lot

00:16:50.480 of people demonizing women who stay who aren't working outside of the home I think that like

00:16:56.220 frankly if in my opinion if you can if you figured it out how to make that work for you like I'm

00:17:01.700 jealous if anything like I think that's great god bless you yeah and I think yeah I think you're 1.00

00:17:06.860 right it sets up this dichotomy of two different groups of women where one is better than the other

00:17:12.180 or one's choices are better than the other or more real than the other and I just think it's not

00:17:16.620 really a binary plenty of people especially parents will work will leave the workforce come

00:17:21.780 back to the workforce it's not this binary thing where if you are able and enjoy not working outside

00:17:28.760 of the home that is like a that innately makes you better I just think it like it it negates the

00:17:35.980 reality of just like being a person who has to make choices that are right for right for their 0.80

00:17:39.680 lives totally totally absolutely and also a lot of the trad wife content much like most of the

00:17:46.460 content on instagram is a glossified version of reality and it's also a lie you know a lot of 0.99

00:17:54.260 these traditional wives claim that this trad wife lifestyle is about paying homage to a slower more 0.99

00:18:01.060 intentional lifestyle there's nothing slow about being at home with two toddlers are you kidding 0.99

00:18:08.520 like give me my work day any day where I'm like sitting at my computer and drinking coffee

00:18:14.900 rather than getting up every two minutes to be like I need strawberries this water doesn't have 0.94

00:18:19.940 enough ice uh there's something weird in between my toes what the fuck that is not slow and

00:18:25.720 intentional that is being I say this all the time I love my kids like I really really like them I 0.96

00:18:32.100 like being a mom and I also don't really want to be alone one-on-one with them for longer than

00:18:39.300 three hours at a time I don't I'm not I think I'm exhausted I need a break and I just for me

00:18:49.680 striking a balance between doing meaningful work and caring for I also don't want to come home at

00:18:54.960 night and have them already in bed right so meaningful work with caregiving I mean that's 0.91

00:18:59.360 the goddamn sweet spot for me and I think everyone has to find their own sweet spot yeah I think 1.00

00:19:05.180 you're right and I think you know that's for at least for me like that's what feminism is about 0.98

00:19:10.240 like people like women being able to make the best choices for them and that being okay and I think

00:19:16.300 you know every time I see one of those TikToks it's like I live a slow life part of me wants to

00:19:22.240 be like what part of a slow life involves setting up a tripod you know what I mean like if I'm living 0.98

00:19:26.740 a slow life i'm not like a lot a lot of the tiktoks that i see on that are like probably

00:19:30.900 involve an incredible amount of like work to put together oh my god it doesn't look so

00:19:34.420 slow and soft to me it actually looks like a lot of work went into this on top of being around

00:19:40.140 your kids which we know is exhausting and draining awful i mean it's just let's be honest a lot of it

00:19:44.800 is awful um yeah those beach waves that wasn't slow it took a lot of work those eyelashes you

00:19:49.360 all wear you all get fake eyelashes on there's nothing slow and intentional actually it's

00:19:53.980 intentional there's nothing slow about putting on fake eyelashes oh no it's incredibly time

00:19:57.640 consuming and like yeah and i think like that's i don't know part of me wonders if like there's

00:20:03.860 just something about this content that is tailor made for social media and that it invites comparison

00:20:10.620 and it it can it is an easy way to sort of polish up a lie you know that like you're living a slow

00:20:17.620 life you're so centered and in touch with your kids and yada yada yada but in fact it can be

00:20:22.340 none of that, but you're presenting this very pretty package to women and moms, a lot of whom

00:20:27.800 are frankly at their limit. They've been doing remote learning. They've been through this

00:20:32.180 pandemic. We've gone through like tampon shortages and baby formula shortages and no meaningful

00:20:38.340 institutional support or help. Selling, continuing to sell moms this polished up lie is almost kind 1.00

00:20:45.940 of cruel to me. It is cruel. It's absolutely cruel. And I think it's just, it's a very

00:20:52.060 patriarchal view of the work of motherhood of saying oh look at these beautiful pictures of

00:20:58.700 these beautiful houses this is so easy this is a slower life no that is work that is so much labor

00:21:05.340 and you know I've I've dabbled in the domestic arts at times and that's that frankly that's

00:21:12.660 harder work for me than having a dozen meetings in a day trying to make a zucchini bed okay like

00:21:17.620 it's just like, I'm not good at that. It's not innate to me. That's not to say someone else

00:21:22.480 doesn't wildly enjoy it. And I do think that we have sidelined, we've sidelined work in the home,

00:21:28.840 right? And my biggest issue is always that we just don't call things done in the home work,

00:21:35.520 but neither do the trad wives. They're blowing off that work. They're saying this is a slower 1.00

00:21:40.940 and easier lifestyle and not recognizing that everything that a woman does in the home 1.00

00:21:45.880 is actual work. Yeah, I think that's a good point that like, if you are a mom or a parent who is 0.99

00:21:52.260 engaging in the pretty exhausting work of raising little humans, to have someone go on social media

00:21:58.580 and be like, actually, this isn't labor. This isn't work. This is just something that, you know,

00:22:04.060 you shouldn't, that you should always enjoy that should come naturally to you as a woman that

00:22:07.740 should just be really pleasing and nice and happy and gentle and slow. I think a lot of parents,

00:22:13.800 the work of raising a child does not feel happy or slow or, or any of that. And I don't know,

00:22:19.440 it's just another way to lie to women about the work that we're all doing, that we are doing and

00:22:26.020 sort of this burden that we all have to, that we're all shouldering and telling us that we

00:22:30.540 should enjoy it all the time. It just is like another added way that we're just not supported.

00:22:35.700 No, it's really, it really is. It's another way of putting it down and putting down the labor

00:22:39.140 that we put into a life to make a life to raise human I think I think that raising human beings

00:22:44.440 is one of the hardest things that I do in this portfolio of many things that I do in our

00:22:51.600 economically precarious society but it also it's just it remains undervalued in the traditional

00:22:58.180 wives movement while they claim that they're elevating it are continuing to undervalue it

00:23:02.860 by saying this is an easier way of life oh that's so true I really want to see like the 70s 80s

00:23:09.060 era completely checked out mom who has not seen her kids all day and when they come home she's

00:23:14.320 like oh i hope you've been fed because i'm not making dinner i want that mom to come back into

00:23:18.600 vogue yeah i mean i the parenting book that i want to write and then no one will let me write

00:23:24.240 because cancel culture uh is a parent like it's 1984 man put them in the way back of the car

00:23:32.700 let's find some candy cigarettes right and just and pop them in front of the tv and give them all

00:23:38.880 the sugary cereals because you know what and smoke i guess smoke and drink in front of them too

00:23:43.000 because that was my life um even though if i had a cigarette now i'd probably die but sometimes i 0.98

00:23:47.520 still think about it about how like wonderful it would be um and i feel like i turned out fucking 0.83

00:23:52.820 great and i was a latchkey kid whose parents chain smoke two packs of cools a day in front of me i 0.60

00:24:01.160 don't even have asthma it's honestly so funny to see the different like i don't want to say trends

00:24:07.460 but waves of parenting because yeah i was parented like that i was i feel like i was the last

00:24:11.940 generation of kids whose parents were like go outside i don't want to see you for several hours

00:24:18.160 and like if you did that today you'd be arrested well it was funny i have a story which will

00:24:23.360 probably get me arrested and i don't care anymore um just don't take my kids away okay like i'm a 0.96

00:24:27.880 good mom but it was pouring fucking rain yesterday at school pickup and my husband hates using a car 0.96

00:24:34.980 because we live in the city and so like obviously like I dropped my toddler off at her first day 0.97

00:24:38.980 of preschool pick her up again in the pouring rain I'm seven months pregnant by the way I'm huge

00:24:43.640 when I asked another parent that had a car there if they could drive me the four blocks home to

00:24:49.180 drop me off they're like oh I don't know if I have enough seats and it was like a massive Subaru I'm

00:24:52.400 like what does pile onto the way back it's fine it's four blocks they wouldn't do it they're like

00:24:56.880 there's no seatbelts back there and I was like it's the way back

00:25:00.640 it's okay i'm like we you know i mean like again like i'm not going to do it for like a

00:25:08.040 three-hour road trip with my kid but like we're just so afraid of everything anymore that i and 0.84

00:25:15.460 i think it's it's created this is a whole other episode it's creating fucked up kids it's creating 0.99

00:25:18.980 kids who don't know how to live in the goddamn world as the world is burning out around us but 0.99

00:25:22.080 that's that's another podcast that no one will let me do i had that same experience on a family 0.99

00:25:27.060 trip recently where my sister-in-law we were piled into a car and she was like I'll just hold her on

00:25:32.820 my lap car seat we're going two blocks it's fine two blocks yeah yeah I don't know again like I 0.81

00:25:39.760 think so many corners of the internet are dark and terrible for women and the ones that are dark 1.00

00:25:45.260 the most dark and terrible are the ones that look the prettiest that's such a I mean I think you're

00:25:53.840 right because you know i'm not a parent but i can imagine if you're a new mom it's scary and then you

00:26:00.560 go to these social media places or spaces that are ostensibly supposed to be about support and

00:26:05.960 helping you and they just make you feel that much more inadequate and alone and terrified terrible

00:26:11.580 i would never want to be a new mom again and be and be scrolling the internet and looking at

00:26:16.920 instagram i'm just happy that i'm an old mom at this point who's just going to let a third child

00:26:23.340 fall out of my body and probably sleep in a cardboard box next to it but I just yeah I don't

00:26:30.400 have time for it but like thinking if like I was so terrified about new motherhood which all new 0.97

00:26:35.740 moms are and then they see these kinds of pictures and they're like I'm failing well women we think 0.90

00:26:40.340 we're failing every day I wake up and feel like a failure even though like rationally I know that

00:26:45.000 I shouldn't I write good books I make good podcasts but like I still feel like I'm failing

00:26:49.940 every day we don't need another person to tell us that we're failing especially not doing so

00:26:55.140 under the guise of i'm telling you this to help you this is this is just for your own good that

00:27:00.040 you need to know this information about how much you're failing as a mom exactly exactly yeah so

00:27:05.920 i don't again like women working in the home raising children doing domestic labor good thing 1.00

00:27:13.400 women that say that we women have failed by being in the workforce workforce fuck you 1.00

00:27:19.480 Fuck you real hard. 1.00

00:27:25.640 More after a quick break. 1.00

00:27:49.480 Details at mcdonalds.ca and participating Canadian restaurants, excluding Quebec.

00:27:52.920 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:27:55.720 Think again.

00:27:56.760 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

00:28:01.480 And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

00:28:05.760 So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

00:28:08.840 Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

00:28:13.160 Think podcasting can help your business?

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00:28:23.300 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and

00:28:30.280 I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:28:35.600 I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice

00:28:42.680 next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:28:47.500 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.64

00:28:51.900 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:28:56.480 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:29:01.120 and I just started screaming.

00:29:03.920 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:29:07.860 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:29:10.860 There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:29:14.660 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:29:23.420 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:29:29.340 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives,

00:29:36.920 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

00:29:39.500 deserve the same level of discourse.

00:29:41.820 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots

00:29:44.380 between books, the internet, and the conversations

00:29:46.940 everyone can't stop having.

00:29:48.940 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:29:50.840 I'm obsessed, so obsessed.

00:29:52.520 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators

00:29:55.140 to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:29:58.860 It's like if you can hide some real messages

00:30:01.740 inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

00:30:05.920 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:30:15.540 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:30:21.580 See you between the pages.

00:30:28.400 Let's get right back into it.

00:30:31.300 I do have one last quick question for you.

00:30:33.660 So speaking of all things throwback-y and traditional, especially for women, I happen to know that you have a particular interest in a one Miss Laura Ingalls Wilder.

00:30:42.280 If you don't know who that is, she was the writer of the series Little House on the Prairie, which became a TV show and was massively influential.

00:30:49.180 Can you tell us about that interest and where it might take you next? 1.00

00:30:54.300 What a badass bitch she was. 1.00

00:30:56.400 Yes, I love me some Laura Ingalls Wilder. 0.99

00:30:58.880 I read all the books growing up, but I'm not as much of an obsessive as my dear friend,

00:31:04.880 Cloness McNichol, who co-hosted Under the Influence with me and who also married my

00:31:10.620 husband and I in front of a sphinx seven years ago. 0.92

00:31:13.600 I mean, she's like a freak about Laura Ingalls Wilder. 0.72

00:31:16.460 And but we're both obsessed with how this woman's real life stories of growing up on

00:31:23.280 the Prairie have become the most read books, probably among the most read books in the entire

00:31:31.320 world and also have shaped how we view the American West. And we are doing a new podcast

00:31:39.300 called Wilder, which comes out in March, where we spent a good chunk of this summer traveling

00:31:45.860 around the United States, going to the Laura Ingalls Wilder homesteads and revisiting what 0.98

00:31:52.280 her legacy means to America what she got wrong she didn't get everything right she fucked up a

00:31:56.620 lot of stuff like she really there's a lot more that she could have included in those books about 0.81

00:32:02.900 what was happening in black America at the time what was happening with the indigenous people

00:32:07.760 whose land that her family was constantly moving on to that said she was so ahead of her time in

00:32:14.680 terms of being a wild child who just wanted to explore the world and those things we reported

00:32:24.720 out um while doing this podcast have been so fascinating my favorite is that laura is really

00:32:31.660 huge with japanese tourists oh huge she's huge in japan who knew and um it's for a couple of

00:32:39.180 reason one Japanese schools often use the little house books to teach English um the darker side

00:32:45.660 of that um many of the internment camps forced people to read the um Laura Ingalls Wilder books

00:32:51.720 here in America and then the television show was wildly popular so these little towns these little

00:32:57.040 very white rural towns where Laura's from get busloads of Japanese tourists visiting them

00:33:03.380 every year but to their like the towns love it and it has actually opened the town's eyes to

00:33:10.840 different cultures they never would have experienced were it not for laura and so and

00:33:16.160 that's just like one of the little tidbits that that we loved when we were doing this and yeah

00:33:20.600 that podcast is coming out in march i'm also hoping to work on a podcast about judy bloom

00:33:25.780 and her her and her enduring legacy on our lives oh my god please i am obsessed with judy bloom

00:33:32.540 when i was a kid the uh book are you there god it's me margaret like it's like it was i we like

00:33:38.940 trade i mean this is we used to trade it like when i was in like the fourth or fifth grade it was

00:33:43.780 but we thought it was like the most grown-up like you know book about our bodies and our art the way

00:33:50.480 you know we would like like like trade it to each other like have you read this i know i know that 0.73

00:33:56.960 one and then also deanie in forever i'm like this is the dirtiest sex i've ever read about 0.84

00:34:01.820 um yeah all right great you're gonna come on that show i'm trying to get that green lit right now so 0.88

00:34:06.060 you're coming on it i'm gonna tell everyone that you're i'm in i'm in i cannot wait right joe thank

00:34:11.660 you so much for being here where can folks keep up with all the cool work that you're doing 0.90

00:34:15.480 unfortunately the fucking instagram at joe at joe piazza author like i spend all of my days 0.95

00:34:22.260 trashing instagram and saying how much i hate it and then i'm like this is a really the easiest 0.98

00:34:26.680 place to find me. So thank you. Instagram at jumpy off the author is the easiest place.

00:34:32.560 I'm going to have this baby in like two months. So I'm going to, I'm either going to go dark or

00:34:37.020 I'm going to become a traditional one. Well, everyone will have to check in on your Instagram

00:34:40.940 to see which way it goes. Which way it goes. Awesome.

00:34:49.340 If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store at tangody.com

00:34:53.580 slash store. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can

00:34:59.060 reach us at hello at tangody.com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.

00:35:04.500 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeart

00:35:08.200 Radio and Unbossed Creative, edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

00:35:13.900 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

00:35:18.500 I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

00:35:23.580 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:35:53.580 Barely silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:35:58.620 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:36:06.560 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:36:12.320 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:36:20.620 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:36:24.100 with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:36:28.880 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:36:30.640 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:36:36.900 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:36:40.780 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:36:46.360 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:36:53.560 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:36:56.360 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:36:59.540 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:07.060 I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 3 podcast.

00:37:11.520 This is a story about a horrendous situation that destroyed two families.

00:37:16.560 It's a scorched earth war that shows just how far someone will go to get what they want.

00:37:22.260 Cindy said, I had to choose between the truth and my family, and I had to choose the truth.

00:37:27.740 Listen to Season 3 of Burden of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:36.640 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:37:39.500 Guaranteed human.

00:37:40.860 You

There Are No Girls on the Internet - September 09, 2022

Why trad wife content is taking over social media right now (with Under the Influence's Jo Piazza)

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Transcript