There Are No Girls on the Internet - Yoga is for everybody and every body with Jessamyn Stanley!

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00:01:42.200 The yoga of everyday life.

00:01:44.140 The yoga of not cutting someone off in traffic. 0.99

00:01:47.300 The yoga of not wanting to bust a cap in somebody's ass 0.99

00:01:51.060 because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time. 0.99

00:01:53.260 Like, all of that, those moments are the moments where I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm glad that I'm breathing.

00:02:06.060 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unblossed Creative.

00:02:14.180 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:19.780 During the pandemic, I got super into yoga.

00:02:22.680 I loved that I could just roll out a mat and do it on my kitchen floor.

00:02:26.240 You know, it felt really accessible.

00:02:28.700 Yoga should be for everybody.

00:02:30.440 And as much as I love it, a lot of times I have to admit that sometimes it doesn't feel like it's for every body.

00:02:38.220 And I think that can be true of a lot of fitness in general.

00:02:41.320 It can feel really exclusionary if you're not thin and white.

00:02:44.800 And sometimes it can be really hard to see yourself represented in the fitness space at all.

00:02:49.800 Luckily, yoga teacher, author, advocate, and entrepreneur Jessamyn Stanley is using the

00:02:55.560 internet to change that.

00:02:58.040 You know, I never set out to have the platform that I have now.

00:03:03.800 I started sharing my yoga practice on social media because I wanted to find a connection

00:03:08.320 to a yoga community outside of my house.

00:03:11.320 I felt very, I don't know if ostracized is the right word, but I definitely did not feel

00:03:17.580 included in my local yoga community in North Carolina. And so I started sharing my yoga

00:03:23.400 practice on social so that I could connect with other practitioners and be like, is this how

00:03:28.100 you're practicing triangle pose? Like, how do you feel about down dog splits? You know what I mean?

00:03:33.020 Like I was really just like wanting to connect with other people. And so to me, to share my

00:03:38.620 practice doesn't really feel like I'm, it doesn't feel like anything more than existing. It feels

00:03:46.200 like I'm just here. And the internet is a really safe place for introverts like me to make community

00:03:54.400 and to find the people that we're looking for. And that is really where I land with it. And it

00:04:00.420 helps because there is so much that comes along with living in a marginalized body and showing

00:04:08.780 your life. And I think that if I had not set out with those intentions, I think that my perspective

00:04:16.040 on it would be a little bit different, could be different anyway. What was the process of

00:04:20.860 Jessamine connecting with yoga for the first time like? So I literally never cared about yoga at all.

00:04:30.480 One of my aunts was obsessed with Bikram yoga when I was in high school. And so she convinced

00:04:37.140 me to go to a class with her when I was 16. And I hated it. I thought it was the worst thing in

00:04:42.660 the entire world. And then when I was in graduate school, a friend of mine suggested that I join her

00:04:49.280 at a class. And at that point, my life had changed quite a bit. And I was going through a period of

00:04:55.020 depression. And I'm prone to depression, so it was one of many waves. But she was like, oh my god,

00:05:01.280 come to yoga. You're going to love it. And I really thought of yoga as being something that 0.98

00:05:05.100 thin white women do. I didn't really think it had anything to do with me. And even when I went to 0.98

00:05:09.880 class, I was like the fattest person, one of the only black people. It was a very alienating 1.00

00:05:16.200 experience for me. But what I didn't realize until I was actually in the room was just how often I

00:05:24.020 tell myself no. So like what would happen is that I would be, and this was also in a Bikram yoga

00:05:31.820 studio, which is a style of hot yoga. And the only reason that I really bring it up now is that

00:05:36.140 in Bikram yoga studios, they have mirrors. This is not common, I think in general with yoga, but

00:05:42.360 in this particular style, they use mirrors. And so I'm looking at myself in the mirror

00:05:47.880 and I'm just judging myself so harshly. I was saying, I'd be like, like you have no business

00:05:53.780 being here. Everybody around you can see that the teacher knows you shouldn't be here. And I'd be

00:05:58.980 looking at everybody else practicing the postures. Like they, they can do it. They know how to do it.

00:06:04.560 I don't know how to do it. So I shouldn't even be here. And like, I would get to a place of like,

00:06:09.860 not even trying the postures. Like I would see the teacher start the posture and I'd be like,

00:06:14.160 well, I'm not going to do that. And after a certain point I thought, so are you going to

00:06:19.160 spend the whole 90 minutes doing this? Or like, I mean, cause you paid to get here. So you could

00:06:23.900 do this for 90 minutes or you could just try. Maybe you fall down. Maybe the teacher sees that

00:06:29.720 you fell down and they're like, she doesn't know anything. Maybe all the other students see you

00:06:34.220 and they're like, she doesn't know anything. Even knowing all of that, maybe you could still just

00:06:39.520 try. And it wasn't even so much about having that experience on my yoga mat. It was really noticing

00:06:45.680 all the other parts of my life where I do that, where I say like, I'm not even going to try.

00:06:51.000 Why try to do that thing? I can't do that thing. And yoga really became a place where I was able

00:06:58.620 to practice jumping over barriers or giving myself the permission to run into a wall and to see what

00:07:07.340 happens when I actually look at myself in a really honest and authentic way and allow all of my truth

00:07:15.900 to be there, the parts that I don't like especially. And honestly, that is why I still continue to

00:07:22.800 retreat to my yoga practice is that it is the practice ground for me to find stability and

00:07:28.600 strength in my life. But I definitely did not understand it. Like I'm talking about this,

00:07:33.040 like, like esoterically now, but I did not understand it that way at the time. At the time,

00:07:38.120 I was like, I don't hate this. It makes my body feel good. I'll keep doing it. And honestly,

00:07:44.800 that kept, that pushed me through like five years of practice was just being like, I'm just going

00:07:50.620 keep doing this because it makes me feel good so that's where I started for sure wow I have so much

00:07:55.740 to say side note my first time ever doing hot yoga it was several years ago and a friend of mine who

00:08:01.620 was very fit was like oh come do hot yoga and so I was like oh I don't know what that is but sure

00:08:06.400 when I arrived I was like oh I thought she meant hot like oh it's so hot right now she meant

00:08:13.200 she meant temperature yeah no I I said like oh I gotta get something out of my car and I left

00:08:20.080 no that's oh my god I totally identify my very first yoga class it was hot yoga and the room

00:08:27.360 is heated to like 105 degrees it's like outrageously hot and I was sweating from places

00:08:33.380 that I truly did not know the human being sweat from like I was sweating from the tops of my

00:08:38.500 fingers and inside my eyebrows and I made it like a third of the way through the class before I was

00:08:44.320 like I cannot be in here like this is I these people don't know me and they told me at the

00:08:49.380 beginning of class don't walk out once you've already entered the room but I was like these

00:08:53.520 people don't know me I have got to get out of here this is crazy talk and I left the room and I

00:08:57.720 immediately felt amazing because there was air conditioning but then when I went back into the

00:09:02.080 room, I learned why you should not walk out of yoga, walk out of a hot yoga room like that,

00:09:07.640 because the temperature change in your body is so extreme that it can have all kinds of negative

00:09:13.620 effects. And for me, it was nausea. And I eventually just walked out and I was like,

00:09:18.520 I'm never coming back here. It was seven years before I went back and tried it again. So I feel

00:09:23.300 like that's really common that people will try yoga and they're like, this is the worst. Somebody

00:09:27.680 told me I was going to come and feel calm and all I feel is terrible. And all I can say is that I

00:09:33.140 feel you and that calm is a multifaceted concept, but yes. Oh my gosh. I mean, it kind of, it reminds

00:09:40.000 me of what you were saying about how the experience of doing yoga really kind of freed you up to

00:09:46.320 really see yourself, to fail, to hit walls, to, you know, fully kind of embrace a kind of

00:09:54.520 humanity to yourself and I think that you know I love yoga but it took it was a while to get there

00:10:01.260 and I think that there's this misconception that you're gonna do it and that like you know it's

00:10:07.260 gonna like a white light is gonna fill the room and then all of a sudden you're gonna be at peace

00:10:11.700 and calm yoga can be fucking hard and you can really feel things physically emotionally mentally

00:10:17.660 that really challenge you and that's kind of part of the practice it's not a a magic bullet that 0.96

00:10:23.500 automatically makes you feel then or calm, but I feel like it's often sold that way.

00:10:28.020 Exactly. I mean, it's really like a synthesis. It's a synthesis of an idea that while I definitely

00:10:33.840 understand it, it also leaves so much the imagination and it leaves out a lot. So like

00:10:38.980 when you're saying you feel calm at the end of yoga, this is like, I felt so calm at the end

00:10:45.100 of my practice today. What I felt was that my body had been stretched to a place where my mind could

00:10:52.560 relax and I can be present and in order to do that there is an agitation of the body that's

00:10:59.460 necessary and it just kind of depends how much agitation you want and need some people for some

00:11:04.900 of us one posture is sufficient that is more than enough and really like I talk about this a little

00:11:11.140 bit in my second book yoke my yoga of self-acceptance but you really only need like one posture to

00:11:17.300 practice yoga and it's whatever posture you're in currently because all parts of life are yoga

00:11:22.060 ultimately. But if you are wanting to really give your body a stretch and also sit in meditation

00:11:31.080 for a long period of time, it's helpful to do a variety of postures that will allow you to arrive

00:11:38.520 in a place where you're a little bit more calm. But what that looks like can be very difficult

00:11:45.640 at times. And the difficulty is happening on purpose because life is difficult. Every part

00:11:52.220 of this life is so hard. And I think that we get conditioned to expect for things to be easy and

00:11:58.720 we look for things to be happy and good. And so whenever things are challenging or difficult or

00:12:05.420 hard or bad, we say, that's not how things should be. Things should be, I should be happy all the

00:12:12.100 time, but nobody's happy all the time. You have to experience the darkness in order to even

00:12:16.660 appreciate the light. That is so true. And honestly, I think it comes up in my own

00:12:24.320 love, hate, sometimes relationship with yoga, but also I guess fitness more broadly. You know,

00:12:32.160 I love yoga. I do it. I start, I start every good day. I start with yoga. If I'm able to get on the

00:12:36.640 mat, you know, that's a good day. But I also, and most of my yoga happens by myself, sometimes with

00:12:43.840 your videos, I have to say, but I do it mostly in my apartment. And I think part of that is that

00:12:49.720 for me, the experience of getting into yoga was also the experience of things like cultural

00:12:55.160 appropriation or like whiteness and thinness really being shoved down my throat. Has this

00:13:00.720 been some, has your work been a response to that? You know, I don't know about a response,

00:13:05.960 But it's certainly existing within all of that.

00:13:09.080 And frankly, when I first started practicing yoga, I never allowed myself to be present to the spirituality of yoga.

00:13:17.280 I focused entirely on the physicality, the postures, because I was like, first of all, is this cultural appropriation?

00:13:24.680 Because I am not South Asian, but I'm practicing something that is deeply embedded in South Asian culture and heritage.

00:13:31.140 And I know that. And I'm also learning it from white people who have colonized as their job. 0.72

00:13:38.360 So I'm like, should I even be doing this? Like it made me keep the practice at a distance. 0.90

00:13:43.740 But what I came to realize and something that I think is a little loophole in yoga is that ultimately, if you are really living your yoga,

00:13:56.640 if you're really practicing and looking within yourself, yoga will always lead you back to your

00:14:01.780 own culture. It'll always lead you back to whatever lives inside of you. And I think that

00:14:08.420 that is something that is really hard to understand within the parameters of white supremacy,

00:14:14.180 because so much of white supremacy is about bringing us, it's all about like neutralizing

00:14:22.260 individual cultures and holding the idea of whiteness on a pedestal. And so that doesn't

00:14:29.680 leave a lot of nuance for us to accept our own individual cultural identities. And I think what

00:14:36.780 it also encourages is white people to avoid doing the work of looking at their own 0.64

00:14:43.300 wounds, internal wounds, and instead to try to appropriate or to wear a mask of someone else's

00:14:54.940 cultural identity. So I think that my work has really, and it's not even, like I say my work,

00:15:04.500 but it's really just like my yoga. My yoga is to accept my role in all of that. How do I

00:15:12.700 personally uphold white supremacy through my own internalized racism? How do I engage in

00:15:20.760 cultural appropriation? How can I understand what appreciation is? And then on the topic of

00:15:27.200 appreciation? How can I appreciate the heritage of yoga and how it exists in South Asia and also

00:15:36.020 appreciate my own culture and show reverence to my own ancestry and legacy? So yeah, I don't know

00:15:43.880 if it's, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question, but it's not, it's certainly something

00:15:48.960 that's on my mind for sure. It sounds like what you're saying is it's a practice. It's a, it's a,

00:15:54.800 it's like a lifelong journey. And that is part and parcel of the work.

00:15:59.900 Yes, that's exactly right. That is exactly it. A hundred percent. And that there's no

00:16:04.620 landing point. There's always that if you're still here, still alive, there's still something

00:16:10.320 to learn. And that's, that's really what I'm opening myself up to. And what I hope that anyone

00:16:17.620 who would ever learn about yoga in or around me.

00:16:23.800 I hope that that is what they would get,

00:16:25.480 is that as long as you're still in the fight,

00:16:28.280 you're doing it right.

00:16:34.420 Let's take a quick break.

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00:17:31.640 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:17:37.500 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:17:44.040 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:17:47.640 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:17:53.080 shut up, don't say anything.

00:17:55.840 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:18:00.260 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:18:04.720 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:18:11.800 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:18:16.240 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:18:19.680 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:18:23.320 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:19:36.920 And we're back. 0.99

00:19:40.880 So you probably know Rosa Parks from her work during the civil rights movement.

00:19:44.980 But did you know that Rosa Parks was also an avid yogi?

00:19:49.080 Dr. Stephanie Evans, author of the book Black Women in the Ivory Tower,

00:19:53.420 studies what she calls historical wellness,

00:19:56.060 or how elder Black women wrote and thought about self-care. 0.99

00:19:59.960 For Rosa Parks, yoga was a family affair. 0.99

00:20:03.480 Evans wrote that Rosa Parks learned about the power of daily morning stretches from her own mother

00:20:08.280 and would practice yoga with her nieces.

00:20:11.220 And Dr. Evans says that this focus on taking care of herself

00:20:14.360 was actually a part of Rosa Parks' expression of activism.

00:20:18.280 What Ms. Parks teaches us is that self-care is a part of resistance. 0.99

00:20:22.520 She lived to the age of 92 because she began to center her own health needs, she explained.

00:20:27.240 And while we may remember Rosa Parks as being defiant and poised, images of her on her yoga mat, all smiles, in bow pose, are my very favorite.

00:20:37.980 As a Black woman, I am very much into my, you know, Black woman aunties and ancestors and the ways of which that they kind of set up a legacy of social change and social justice.

00:20:52.300 I feel like I'm kind of like walking in the truth of my ancestors.

00:20:55.260 and as much as I hold reverence for them that feeling can sometimes lead to me sort of like

00:21:02.380 I don't know hero-fying them in a way where they're not really real people and there's this

00:21:08.360 I mean I'm sure you know oh my god yes and there's this image that I came across several

00:21:15.460 years ago of Rosa Parks doing yoga and I have it framed on my death because we think of Rosa

00:21:20.940 Parks as this like you know I think that like it's so easy to think of her as this picture in

00:21:27.020 a history book or a picture a picture on like a black history poster and the images of her smiling

00:21:33.300 and doing yoga and in fact she really enjoyed doing yoga a lot she was like a like a she had

00:21:39.560 a practice and I something about that picture just reminds me of the way that yoga and all of

00:21:47.420 these other little ways that we experience physical joy and physical fullness can be a

00:21:53.400 way of tapping back into my specific cultural heritage in a way that allows me to be a bit

00:21:59.520 more loving, I guess. Yes. And I would even take it a step further that when you think about the

00:22:04.180 legacy of Rosa Parks and think about the work that she did, the amount of spiritual fortitude

00:22:09.500 that was necessary, the strength and the ability to see beyond the present moment, but also to be

00:22:16.040 in the present moment those are all things that are that come through restorative healing practices

00:22:21.800 like yoga and it's I love I'm so grateful for the legacy of people like her who literally were like

00:22:31.440 okay cool so I'ma change history casually but the way I'm gonna do it is by practicing yoga like

00:22:40.260 So that when we look at social justice works specifically, and we say, like, if we're all being present to the ways that we contribute to our communities and that we're all activists, ultimately, then coming from that place to heal yourself and to work on, to put your own healing journey first is the first step of activism and of social justice.

00:23:06.300 That, like, there's nothing without that, ultimately.

00:23:09.400 That if you're not taking care of yourself, there's no way that you can take care of anyone else.

00:23:14.340 All of the horrible things in our society, whether it's capitalism, whether it's white supremacy, those forces want us to be burnt out.

00:23:23.200 Oh, yes.

00:23:23.340 They need us to be completely drained and feeling like we're pouring from an empty cup all the time.

00:23:29.200 And that one way that we can reclaim is to experience, you know, that that spiritual and physical fullness or, you know, whatever it is that makes us feel more whole.

00:23:39.980 Like that's a way that we can sort of quietly reclaim that and push against all those destructive forces.

00:23:45.940 That's exactly right. That is why it is so.

00:23:49.480 The first thing that they come for is our spirits.

00:23:52.740 It's the first thing. And our breath being connected to that, that whenever we reconnect to our breath, it is the greatest sign of strength and power and an inability to ever be silenced.

00:24:07.960 And I think that it's so important as things become more chaotic, more tribal, more violent, it's really important for us as a society to remember that to take care of yourself is the first line of defense.

00:24:27.380 I love that. That's such a good reminder at a time where I think, frankly, we could all use it.

00:24:32.580 always every single day because there's always something new that's the other thing about now

00:24:38.040 is that it's such a reminder that like you know nothing is forever and that the present moment

00:24:45.840 is paramount and I think it will only get harder to remember that and so it's helpful to to have

00:24:54.360 the tools in place yeah I oh that is a word you know the last few years it has felt like everything

00:25:02.340 is on fire and awful and just the reminders to breathe reminders to be present reminders that

00:25:10.160 you know my own personal vibe takes the shape of like escape so it's like if I can drink too much

00:25:18.240 or find other ways to like unplug and escape but ultimately I know what I'm trying to do is like

00:25:23.320 avoid having to feel what it feels like to be in my body and be present and like

00:25:27.520 you know I don't know like as bad as things have been the last few years I'm grateful that I've

00:25:34.980 that I've been able to lean into the opportunities to reconnect with my my presence and my breath and

00:25:40.580 my body and all of that totally literally same and you know I think that there is some there's

00:25:46.820 so many lessons to learn in escapism that I feel like are really helpful and impossible to learn

00:25:53.000 otherwise but there is always this line of like what is it like to just try to experience your 0.97

00:26:00.740 own torment and to really like just let the bad shit be there just like it's like yeah it smells 0.98

00:26:07.360 bad in here that's because there's trash it's okay it's no big deal and like I feel like every 0.98

00:26:13.020 every stroke of yoga that I practiced prior to 2020 was practiced for 2020 2020 and beyond because

00:26:21.500 I feel like literally every time that I come to my mat, that I come to my breathwork practice,

00:26:28.640 especially in what I think of as the yoga of everyday life, the yoga where the yoga of not 0.99

00:26:35.940 cutting someone off in traffic, the yoga of not like wanting to bust a cap in somebody's ass 0.99

00:26:41.380 because they said the wrong thing at the wrong time. Like all of that, those moments are the 0.99

00:26:46.540 moments where I'm like wow yeah I'm glad that I'm glad that I'm breathing I'm glad that I could just

00:26:52.120 practice like inhaling and exhaling and really just try to receive another human being that is

00:26:59.480 so much I think of there's so much that comes from not accepting ourselves and one of the

00:27:06.140 biggest things is that it means that you can't accept anybody else and so to me to be able to

00:27:11.840 like just take every challenging moment as an opportunity to just receive another person and

00:27:18.600 just hear where they're coming from and not try to make it about me and what I think and what I

00:27:24.660 deserve and just be like you're another human being what are you saying not even like I need

00:27:29.880 to do anything with what they're saying not like I need to agree or like it but just can I receive

00:27:36.840 and that I think is like I don't know it helps for sure it helps it's so funny to hear you say 0.87

00:27:45.100 this because from watching your videos I always think like oh Jessamyn is such a zen centered

00:27:50.540 person she probably never cuts people off in traffic and you're like oh that's part of the

00:27:54.680 practice totally yeah I am a very volatile person and I definitely you know I thought before um

00:28:01.760 like, what is the difference between me now and me before I practice yoga? And I think that before

00:28:07.840 I started practicing yoga, I was a little bit mad all the time, like a little bit unsettled all the

00:28:14.120 time. And even now, it's not that the anger is not still there. And certainly I mentioned

00:28:20.160 depression before, but like, I absolutely still experience depression, waves of depression. And

00:28:27.380 um it's not that it's not there it's not that the bad shit isn't present it's that 0.97

00:28:32.760 I'm okay with it or I have the opportunity to be okay with it I don't have to judge myself for being 0.73

00:28:39.400 uh complicated I don't have to judge myself for being mean or for being problematic like I can

00:28:47.060 just be all of those things and I think that um it is a day-by-day journey and some days

00:28:55.320 I wake up feeling it and some other days I do not and the most important thing for me I think

00:29:01.500 always is to just like not try to cover it up like toxic positivity I think is the biggest issue

00:29:08.020 like anytime saying that like you know I'm just not going to think about that I'm going to focus

00:29:12.160 entirely on the happy things like no it's got to be at least for me and I'm like I'm a double 0.94

00:29:17.820 cancer so this is really this may be specific like water sign shit but like I feel like if I don't 0.92

00:29:24.020 experience every emotion fully, I won't get over it. I will, it'll just fester underneath, 0.96

00:29:30.340 underground. And it might not be today. It might be years in the future, but it will come out and

00:29:35.280 it'll be worse than if I just set it straight up from the beginning.

00:29:39.520 Ooh, I identify so hard. I could talk all day, but I will just say, I agree. And I see you.

00:29:52.000 More after a quick break.

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00:30:48.880 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:30:55.040 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:31:01.400 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:31:05.120 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:31:10.520 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:31:13.160 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:31:17.720 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:31:22.180 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:31:29.800 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:31:33.700 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:31:37.160 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:31:40.280 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:31:49.240 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:31:55.160 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:32:07.640 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:32:14.740 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:32:18.180 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:32:24.280 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

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00:32:41.360 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:47.420 See you between the pages.

00:32:53.960 Let's get right back into it. 0.99

00:32:58.920 Jessamyn's work is grounded in body positivity.

00:33:01.800 at a time when the term can be so watered down and co-opted

00:33:05.520 to the point where the very idea of body positivity can almost lose its meaning.

00:33:10.280 One of the things I really was excited to talk to you about

00:33:12.620 is the idea of the body positivity movement.

00:33:15.580 And I love that so much of what you do is grounded in making space for bodies.

00:33:20.320 But my question is, do you ever feel like both body positivity

00:33:24.120 and sort of wellness, like, quote, wellness,

00:33:27.260 have been kind of commodified to the point where whatever radical meaning might have been in there,

00:33:33.380 we sort of, I don't know, it just seems like it's so easily kind of turned into a happy slogan

00:33:40.100 and the reality of what that kind of stuff looks like is kind of lost.

00:33:45.260 Oh yeah, totally. I mean, I think that happens with all movements low-key, that whenever it

00:33:50.080 becomes, whenever a movement is like popularized or becomes, when it starts trending, the impact

00:33:58.800 of it gradually degrades. And I think specifically with body positivity, which I think of body

00:34:05.920 positivity is really being like an offshoot of body, of fat positivity and fat acceptance.

00:34:13.140 And fat acceptance as a movement, deeply radical, did not start yesterday.

00:34:20.120 100% has been like in the 60s and 70s.

00:34:23.000 Like there's, I mean, that's, and that's me really just being kind of vague in general,

00:34:27.760 but it has existed for quite some time. 0.73

00:34:30.380 And body positivity, I think from fat positivity has always been seen as like kind of a bullshit 0.91

00:34:36.980 movement, low key.

00:34:38.020 Like I think that people in the fat acceptance movement, fat positivity have always been

00:34:41.960 critical of body positivity because it is more general and I thought of body positivity as being

00:34:47.540 like basically saying you're okay today exactly as you are you don't need to change anything about

00:34:54.020 yourself your body is exactly as it needs to be and when you accept your body then you can do

00:34:59.280 anything that you want which is a really cool message and it's not actually about body size

00:35:04.300 which a lot of body positivity has become about the message is not what I just said and it becomes

00:35:11.480 like fat girls deserve the same clothes as thin girls or something along those lines and so it's 0.94

00:35:19.340 not and it's not noting the extent to which black black uh creators in particular black fat creators 0.88

00:35:29.660 have been really instrumental in the body positivity movement being what it is now like

00:35:36.400 it excludes all of that and I think that because of that maybe bastardization is taking it a step

00:35:44.280 too far but also maybe not because of that certainly simplification of the message

00:35:51.260 body positivity has been co-opted by a lot of people that I think that their intentions are

00:36:03.020 are good, but what ends up happening is that the message just becomes watered down. It becomes

00:36:09.800 diluted. And so now in response to body positivity, even just the idea of being positive about your

00:36:16.920 body, like a lot of people push back on that and they're like, I don't want to feel positive about

00:36:21.460 my body all the time. And so from that body neutrality has sprung up. And the idea with

00:36:27.680 body neutrality is that you can be neutral about your body that like you don't have to feel any

00:36:33.440 kind of way about it it just exists and then you go from there and my feeling about that is that

00:36:40.540 body neutrality is it's not really possible because we're not neutral our bodies are not

00:36:49.700 neutral we're political beings our bodies are radicalized from birth and so to say that you're

00:36:57.760 neutral toward your body is to really like lose responsibility for what it means for your body to

00:37:03.860 show up in this world but you know at the end of the day this is this is maybe a niche clueless

00:37:11.640 reference but at the end of the day the more the merrier I'm just like okay I feel like it doesn't

00:37:18.180 really matter what you bring it doesn't really matter how you get to the party as long as you

00:37:22.000 get there I'm like we have to get to a place where as a people we stop worrying about our body we

00:37:27.580 stop talking about our body so much because right now we live in an age where like if someone's nose

00:37:32.840 doesn't look the way that they think it should then it's like their life is over and they shouldn't

00:37:36.920 exist so like we can get to a place where everybody knows that your body is the way that it is on

00:37:43.200 purpose, you are the way that you are on purpose, you're not a mistake, then I think from that place

00:37:49.440 we can start to heal some of the deeper systemic wounds that exist in our society. Like there's no

00:37:54.920 healing of systemic racism without first accepting that your body is okay. So it's, I don't think

00:38:03.580 that there's anything wrong with the movements, frankly. Like I think that the dilution ultimately

00:38:10.600 leads to more people having a conversation about their bodies and it leads to greater change

00:38:17.160 but I do think that it's important for us to be aware of the fact that a movement or a title

00:38:25.520 can't be the fullness of your identity so that like if the movement is gone

00:38:30.720 where do your values lie now where do they lie then that's such a good point such a good way

00:38:39.260 to put it and I think you're you're so right like it's so the idea that you could just exist

00:38:45.640 neutrally especially for black folks especially for black women it's just like it's just like

00:38:50.640 it's not gonna happen like I have been going through some stuff recently like I just became

00:38:56.080 an aunt for the first time and I thank you I'm an auntie to a beautiful baby girl and when she was

00:39:02.900 born I kind of had to do a lot of inner work to realize I had a lot of fear and anxiety

00:39:12.500 around what I remember from being a black girl in the south and all of the negativity and hang-ups

00:39:21.420 and the way that like even people in my family even people who loved me just felt like love for

00:39:27.260 them was about it could only kind of exist as like criticism right like my hair wasn't right

00:39:32.660 My weight wasn't right. This wasn't right. My clothes weren't right. My shorts were too short. Everything. And the idea of my niece being born into the world, knowing that she might get that same stuff hung on her, that I spent a lifetime working to unlearn.

00:39:49.920 Like that was really hard for me. And I think like, I wish we could get to a place where when a little black girl is born, you're not thinking about all the ways that society is going to be so hard on her and, and critique her and politicize her and judge her and sexualize her and all of these different things. I wish that was a place that we would get to, but I don't think we're there.

00:40:12.080 Yeah, I think we're not quite there, but I do think that every step is a step in the right direction. And I feel like it's so important for us to individually be doing the work exactly as you have described, like acknowledging those parts of yourself, seeing the ways that you're like continuing the cycle and just being like as gentle and accepting about it as possible.

00:40:36.320 that i feel like is all anybody could ever ask like there's nothing else to be done and that's

00:40:44.300 because even as we evolve as a society and even like if we heal everything that are

00:40:54.120 all of the wounds that our ancestors created we're just gonna make new wounds because that's

00:41:01.040 what life is about like it's just about having those experiences but it's so beautiful to notice

00:41:07.520 what you're talking about and to just take that step forward to do something different 0.85

00:41:13.580 being fat queer and black on the internet means people will have a lot of opinions about your

00:41:21.200 body your clothing your diet and really your existence overall something that i've really 0.94

00:41:28.100 noticed a lot is that both on the internet and in real life, I think that people feel

00:41:33.580 very entitled to have opinions on bigger black bodies. And it's, it's always these assumptions

00:41:40.180 like, oh, that person can't do yoga. That person can't be healthy. That person, you know, shouldn't

00:41:45.980 be eating that or wearing that. And I wonder like, like, like, where do you think that comes from?

00:41:53.740 Why do you think that when people see a bigger black body, for a lot of folks, their first knee-jerk reaction is to criticize them or to make an assumption about who they are from a screen that's going to be a picture of a stranger?

00:42:09.440 I think there is so much hatred of black people in general that I think that's a huge piece of that specific thing. I think that when it comes to fat black bodies that I think that fatness is really denigrated in every society and in all cultures.

00:42:28.400 And I think especially in the black community, black people shading other black people that fat blackness is not accepted. 0.99

00:42:36.320 And I think that there is this desire often to colonize and to have an opinion about shit that really is none of your business at all. 0.99

00:42:46.380 And I think that people, I think it's so normalized. And because of the medical industrial complex and all of the research around what obesity is and these health statistics, people think that they're literally like doing you a favor to say, like, that's not healthy or like that person is doing a bad thing, etc. 0.95

00:43:06.880 and really I think it just points to deep insecurity in the self and the feeling that like

00:43:13.840 maybe by controlling other people you can control yourself and it's just really you know

00:43:21.900 I don't even really know what there's to say about it it's just I think it's something that

00:43:27.240 human beings do to feel better about ourselves on an individual level and it never works out that

00:43:32.320 because it always just makes you sadder yeah and you just really named one of my like one of my

00:43:38.480 biggest pet peeves the concern trolling of like oh i'm trying to help them out i'm trying to give

00:43:43.180 them some advice i'm trying to like no you're not you're literally being hateful you're really you

00:43:47.820 really don't care about this person if you did you probably wouldn't be leaving hateful comments

00:43:52.240 like exactly i hate it so much it's such a pet peeve of mine yeah i really feel like it just

00:43:58.480 makes me sad whenever people for whatever reason want to lean into the negative because it means 0.90

00:44:04.500 that they are really sad like anytime that I see trolling in general I just think like damn that 0.96

00:44:11.540 person is really sad because if you're happy or if you are if you're feeling happy you want for 0.97

00:44:17.020 other people to feel happy but if you're feeling sad you want for other people to feel sad and

00:44:22.060 I think there's a lot that we can do on an individual level and then on a collective level

00:44:28.180 to be manifesting compassion for ourselves individually so that when we come up against

00:44:34.780 that or see people like really just going in, I mean, people get violent with their words because

00:44:41.840 they are feeling so sad and desperate. And to respond to that desperation with hope and with

00:44:51.000 love and with compassion is a triumph. It's the, it is the opposite of war. So I feel like

00:44:58.580 I agree with you. I feel the same way. Back in January, Jessamyn was on the cover of the

00:45:04.680 fitness magazine Self. She looked absolutely incredible. But when Donald Trump Jr. posted

00:45:12.220 that cover on his Instagram with the caption, what are your thoughts? Well, I don't think I

00:45:18.360 have to tell you that the comments were not nice and he knew exactly what he was doing setting his

00:45:24.860 six million followers up to knock jessamine down only it kind of didn't work i know that for you 0.96

00:45:33.020 fucking donald trump jr and he did the thing that i like it burns me up because at least 0.98

00:45:38.960 haters can be like i'm a hateful person here's a hateful comment the thing that really gets me is 0.99

00:45:44.140 when someone on the internet posts a picture and then they'll just be like thoughts question mark

00:45:50.200 and i see it all the time and i'm like okay first of all if you're gonna like you know what you know 0.95

00:45:56.040 what you're doing you know what you're trying to say why don't you at least just fucking say it 0.95

00:45:59.780 but like the thing of like throwing a stone and hiding your hands i cannot stand it i see it all 1.00

00:46:05.400 the time i hate it no it's totally small dick bullshit and i mean like honestly i'm just like 1.00

00:46:10.920 i feel you i mean like when he said he was talking shit or or encouraging other people to talk shit 0.98

00:46:17.200 i really don't know because i wasn't paying that much attention because it has happened so much 0.98

00:46:21.500 and i'm just like whatever but i feel like frankly first of all anytime that a white man is talking 0.94

00:46:30.120 shit about my body i'm like okay so you love it that's part of the issue that you love it and you 0.96

00:46:34.940 feel like you can't say that so okay heard got it talk about something that i learned from my 0.99

00:46:39.340 ancestors but I'm like okay I got you but then also I'm like oh and then there's also a piece

00:46:45.000 of me that's like thanks for the free publicity sounds great um I don't really have an issue with 0.89

00:46:49.580 that but I'm also like damn this really pushed you like this really provoked you it made you

00:46:57.560 think it made you like like it made him it made anyone anyone who has that like that strong of a 0.95

00:47:05.240 negative reaction, I'm like, you just got pushed. You got pushed. And maybe you got pushed to the

00:47:11.180 next level. Maybe you got pushed to think about things in a different way, to see the world in

00:47:16.620 a more expansive way. And that's where I feel like the onus is on me or on whoever is receiving

00:47:22.600 the trolling to say like, who am I in this circumstance? What do I stand for? Do I believe

00:47:29.480 in myself? Do I think that I deserve to exist? And if that's the case, if I think I deserve to

00:47:34.940 exist, then everybody else deserves to exist. Everybody else deserves to have their opinion

00:47:38.720 and post about it on Instagram and ask for feedback from other people. Everybody has that right.

00:47:44.200 And what I can do is just try to find ways to enjoy it and to not be held back by it.

00:47:51.260 Jessamyn is continuing to build community on the internet to grapple with those very same

00:47:55.580 questions. Her new digital wellness app is called The Underbelly, where anyone can explore wellness

00:48:01.440 and yoga in a way that affirms who they are and however they're showing up.

00:48:06.280 So tell us about your new app, The Underbelly.

00:48:08.940 How are you using it to have a different conversation about our bodies and wellness

00:48:12.500 that are maybe different than some of the other spaces that we've seen?

00:48:16.300 Totally.

00:48:17.120 I think that wellness has been defined very one-dimensionally.

00:48:21.660 It's become about what you look like and whether or not you fit in

00:48:26.760 and whatever the wellness practice is going to do for your body

00:48:32.780 or like what other people will think about it.

00:48:35.240 And the underbelly is really about acceptance

00:48:37.620 and about accepting yourself exactly as you are.

00:48:40.860 Accepting your messy house,

00:48:42.840 your kid that is practicing yoga on the mat with you.

00:48:46.140 Maybe your dog is practicing on the mat with you.

00:48:48.300 Maybe you don't have a yoga mat.

00:48:50.020 Maybe you fart compulsively.

00:48:52.040 Maybe you do all kinds of things that people have told you

00:48:55.120 that you should feel bad about.

00:48:56.480 and the underbelly is the space where you don't have to feel bad about it. You don't have to feel

00:49:00.760 bad. You don't have to explain yourself. There's no explanation needed. It is wellness without

00:49:06.760 requirement. And I think that for me, that is what I, when I first started posting my yoga practice

00:49:13.980 on social media, the community of the underbelly is what I was looking for. I was looking for a

00:49:18.540 place where it was okay to be different and to, to be unapologetically so. And that more than

00:49:26.140 anything more than yoga specifically, more than meditation, which we do offer this. I mean,

00:49:31.600 the underbelly, you can practice yoga with me that you can go to the underbelly.com and try

00:49:35.420 a free trial right now if you'd like, but you can do practice yoga with me, practice meditation for

00:49:40.080 sure. That's there. But really the space is there for you to just be yourself and not have to make

00:49:45.900 any explanations for your identity. So I was this way before I started doing yoga. I'm sure that

00:49:52.360 there are people listening who are rolling their eyes saying, okay, whatever, as if fitness or

00:50:00.120 yoga or any of this mumbo jumbo is going to help my life. What do you say to someone like that?

00:50:06.700 Can you give someone who is a non-believer, here is an easy, quick way to just try out these

00:50:13.660 practices in your own life that might make a difference? First of all, I totally feel you.

00:50:18.240 your critique is legitimate if you're like um that sounds like bullshit i feel you you're a real one 0.78

00:50:24.920 but the thing about it is you can start practicing yoga right now with literally we can do it right 0.96

00:50:30.820 now together if you just close your eyes and take a deep inhale and take a deep exhale

00:50:36.780 this is all this is yoga literally just linking together and so if you take that a step further

00:50:43.900 I would not go out and buy a yoga mat. You don't need to like go get books or go get like a special

00:50:51.260 outfit. Literally, if you have access to the internet, just go to YouTube, look up the very

00:50:57.500 first free yoga class that you can find and just give it a try. And if you don't vibe with the

00:51:01.980 teacher, cut it off. Try another one. There are literally, there are so many free yoga resources

00:51:06.800 on YouTube right now. And you just start and maybe let's say cut the class. You don't want to try a

00:51:12.400 pre-yoga class. I feel you. Just try one posture. Maybe the posture is mountain pose. Mountain pose

00:51:18.200 can be practiced seated or standing. Maybe the pose is child's pose, which is essentially like,

00:51:25.100 it's literally like laying like a child on the ground. Maybe it's corpse pose where you lie on

00:51:30.140 your back, which truly I think is the hardest posture of yoga. Any of those postures, you just

00:51:36.060 start with that one posture. And then if you want to do more, you do more. Maybe you get down on the

00:51:41.520 ground into corpse pose. And then you want to try out cat cow pose. And before you know it,

00:51:46.880 you're practicing vinyasas and down dogs and all that. But also that one posture is more than

00:51:53.760 enough. And you don't even actually need to change your body from how it is right now.

00:51:58.320 You could practice it, the breath work, the connection to the pranic light force that

00:52:05.260 connects all of us that can happen from wherever you are right now and if you vibe with it that's

00:52:13.140 great but also yoga is a very broad category and there are yogic components in all forms of

00:52:23.840 physical movement so if you maybe yoga postures are not the thing for you like finding some kind

00:52:30.380 of wellness practice that reminds you to tune back into yourself and to listen to your own

00:52:35.980 breath. That's really the point of all of it. That is beautiful. Jessamyn, where can folks

00:52:42.480 keep up with all of your amazing work? Totally. You can find me on social media at my name is

00:52:48.160 Jessamyn on most platforms. I think on Twitter, I'm at Jessamyn Stan, but you can find my name

00:52:54.300 is Jessamyn everywhere. And you can find the underbelly at the underbelly yoga. You can find

00:52:58.900 my podcast at Dear Jessamyn. And you can get links to everything, including my books and my

00:53:05.460 organization, We Go High. You can find all of that at JessamynStanley.com. Fabulous. Is there anything

00:53:12.920 that I did not ask that you want to make sure gets included? Oh my goodness. The only thing that I

00:53:17.200 would add, which is what I always say, is just thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And

00:53:22.080 thank you so much to everyone who is listening. And thank you for being you. You were made this

00:53:27.680 way on purpose you are a creature of light and who you are matters and what you bring to this

00:53:33.680 world is imperative so thank you for being you if you're looking for ways to support the show

00:53:43.520 check out our merch store at tangody.com store got a story about an interesting thing in tech

00:53:49.700 or just want to say hi you can reach us at hello at tangody.com you can also find transcripts for

00:53:54.680 today's episode at tangody.com. There are no girls on the internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

00:53:59.580 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, edited by Joey Patt. Jonathan Strickland

00:54:04.860 is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our

00:54:09.740 contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on

00:54:14.340 Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:54:19.620 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:24.680 if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

00:54:30.960 welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone

00:54:37.180 who thinks pride and prejudice and love island to serve the same level of discourse each week

00:54:41.720 we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite

00:54:45.740 writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm

00:54:50.680 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:20.680 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:29.140 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:55:33.500 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:55:38.840 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:55:45.480 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:55:48.520 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:55:51.860 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:59.380 I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 3 podcast.

00:56:03.860 This is a story about a horrendous situation that destroyed two families.

00:56:08.880 It's a scorched earth war that shows just how far someone will go to get what they want.

00:56:14.600 Cindy said, I had to choose between the truth and my family, and I had to choose the truth.

00:56:20.420 Listen to Season 3 of Burden of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:56:29.040 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:56:31.900 Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - August 19, 2022

Yoga is for everybody and every body with Jessamyn Stanley!

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