Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Blowing Up Your Life (To Follow Your Dreams) with Elle Cosimano

00:00:00.000 I first met today's guest at a reading retreat in Virginia. Yes, a reading retreat. Those exist,

00:00:12.720 and they are magical. They are. We had only known each other for a few minutes when El

00:00:18.360 Cosimano told me the story about how she blew up her life as a real estate agent, as a breadwinner, 0.64

00:00:24.960 as a mom of two kids and moved to Mexico with her entire family to try her hand at writing a novel.

00:00:32.640 I love this story. It gives me chills, I tell it to people all the time, and it inspires me to keep

00:00:38.420 going and creating and inventing and trying new things because I think a lot of times as women

00:00:45.280 we need permission to do things. And stories give us that permission. Elle is the New York

00:00:53.460 Times bestselling author of many, many, many books. Her Finley Donovan series is one of my

00:01:00.060 personal favorites, and I gift it to almost everyone that I know. Today, Elle is going to

00:01:06.200 tell us a little bit about that moment when she did blow up her life, when she did sell everything

00:01:10.160 she owned and moved to the jungle of Mexico to pursue her dream. And then we'll also talk about

00:01:15.440 the tribe of women Elle found to support her. Because none of us can do this alone. We can't.

00:01:20.400 We can't. We need each other.

00:01:29.720 Hello. It's so good to see you today. It is amazing to see you. It's been too long.

00:01:36.020 Oh my God, it has been too long. I mean, it's just,

00:01:39.100 this is just like the exact breather that I needed is just to like sit and shoot the shit with you, 0.98

00:01:46.600 one of my favorite authors and hardworking ladies in the world. And so ever since we met, 0.98

00:01:56.380 we first met in, and I feel like I know you because I love the Finlay Donovan series so much,

00:02:01.160 but since we met in real life, I have been thinking about your personal story. And I will

00:02:06.960 tell you that as I've gone through the roller coaster of ups and downs and hard times of

00:02:12.940 publishing The Sicilian Inheritance, you have just been the shining beacon of light for me.

00:02:18.780 And I go back to the things that you told me and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I just, I feel

00:02:24.340 invigorated again and excited. And I needed you to know that you did this for me while I was

00:02:32.480 embarking on my tour. You made me feel amazing right before I went on tour. I am blown away

00:02:37.380 and honored and it is it is lovely to hear it because um you know i think you're doing so much

00:02:44.140 of the same for me as i'm watching you on this wild adventure you are working harder than anyone

00:02:50.080 i've seen work in this industry and to see all of it coming together like the you know the rubber

00:02:55.760 hitting the road and everything is working is such an inspiration and there have been days you know

00:03:00.220 these these last couple months have been hard work for both of us and there have been days

00:03:03.740 when I just look at it and I'm like, I can't, I can't do it today. And I look at you and I'm like,

00:03:08.560 I can, I can do this today. Look at Joe, look at what Joe is doing. I can do this.

00:03:13.960 Oh my gosh. I love that. I love, I love a mutual, mutual admiration society. It brings me so much

00:03:19.440 true. It really does. Well, I want to, I want to start out by, by telling our listeners the story

00:03:25.980 that you told me about how you started writing books in the first place and how you blew up

00:03:32.420 your life and how your mother helped you because we talk so much on this show about how it really

00:03:38.560 takes a village for us to do anything uh because i i've been telling your story over and over again

00:03:44.120 i was driving to midtown scholar in harrisburg the other day with another author jenny herrera

00:03:50.020 who wrote the hunter uh and telling her your story and she's like i love el casimano's books

00:03:56.820 and I didn't know any of that and now I love her even more. I love it. Oh that's awesome. It is

00:04:03.540 kind of a wild and unique story and I love to tell it because I do think so many of us need to hear

00:04:09.540 you know that we're not alone in this and while not everybody's story a lot of people's story is

00:04:14.760 not going to be like mine I think we all struggle with so many of the same things so many of the

00:04:19.900 same obstacles and so I do love sharing this story because I think people do find inspiration

00:04:26.460 and hope in it. And that's, you know, that's, I think, you know, something we can all give each

00:04:30.900 other. Yes, yes, yes. And yes. So let's start. Let's start at the beginning. Where were you

00:04:37.500 before, before your life as an author? Yeah. So, gosh, before my life as an author,

00:04:44.440 I spent more than a dozen years doing real estate sales and marketing and, you know,

00:04:50.020 building a career out of that. And I was very successful. I, you know, I like to look back and

00:04:55.640 and say I had a fantastic, solid career. I was very good at what I did. I trained other people

00:05:02.880 to do what I do. I, you know, I had a fantastic, robust clientele. I had a team of people working

00:05:11.440 under me. I was very successful. I was the breadwinner for our family and I was miserable.

00:05:17.000 I had two small kids in elementary school at the time, you know, I think there were probably five

00:05:24.940 and eight when I started down this road. And I was feeling like I just kind of hit this

00:05:33.640 wall where I knew I wasn't doing anything I wanted to be doing with my life. I wasn't where I wanted

00:05:39.760 to be. I didn't know what I wanted. I just knew I wasn't fulfilled. And I was exhausted. I was

00:05:48.500 working way too hard. You know, in real estate, you're working nights and weekends. And that's

00:05:52.820 when your kids are off school and your family is home. And I felt like I wasn't being enough of a

00:05:58.820 mother. I felt like I wasn't being enough of a spouse. I wasn't being enough of any one thing

00:06:04.340 to feel good about where I was in my life. And so that's more or less where I was before I started

00:06:12.840 writing. And I think I was, I guess that was about what, 2010, I guess. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And I think

00:06:21.060 this is not uncommon this is this is not an uncommon place for women and the mothers of

00:06:27.920 young children to find themselves in at a certain point you've you've worked you've done the things

00:06:33.400 that we've been told to do you've you've started a career you've had the kids and gotten married and

00:06:38.960 you just feel like you haven't done the things you wanted to do and that you're not getting to

00:06:45.140 spend your time the way that you want to be spending your time. And I hear that a lot. I hear

00:06:51.460 that from a lot of women. And then I also hear, but I'm scared to try anything new. But I don't

00:06:55.820 think I can. I don't think I could take that leap. And you took the leap. Yeah. And I think it's even

00:07:02.480 more than I'm scared. I think for me, it was guilt. I would feel selfish imagining anything

00:07:12.520 for myself. We are conditioned, I think, so often, especially as moms. And our whole identity is

00:07:19.980 wrapped up in giving of ourselves for the people that we care for, you know, the people we're

00:07:25.320 responsible for. You know, we're every like every drop of blood in our body, every piece of energy

00:07:32.700 that we have, you know, goes into taking care of or nurturing or handling things for someone else.

00:07:38.720 And so there's this guilt in addition to the fear. I think there's this guilt that comes with just the notion of trying to picture something you want just for yourself. And so that for me, I think, was the biggest stumbling block was, you know, this feeling like I shouldn't like I should put my life on hold because this is this is what I am.

00:07:58.360 I should be where I wanted this is what I thought I wanted and it is I loved my kids and I love my

00:08:03.460 family um but I wouldn't you know I couldn't accept the fact that there was something that

00:08:09.020 I wanted for me too yeah yeah and I feel that so so so hard I mean I I feel weird guilt and shame

00:08:19.240 around so many things that I don't think I should feel guilt and shame around I felt I felt terrible

00:08:24.880 leaving them to go on that book tour last week. Even though, you know, Nick was here and my mom

00:08:33.880 was also here and many, many a babysitter were here. They were fine. They were fine. They were

00:08:39.140 fine. And I want them to see their mother go out and do things she loves and work and have purpose

00:08:45.400 and create. And still, still, every moment that I was away, I felt guilt. It's irrational. It's

00:08:51.600 wholly irrational and yet it's ingrained in us you know it's ingrained in us exactly and i you know

00:08:58.880 i moved back to philadelphia because my mom's here uh and also it's the greatest city in america i

00:09:04.320 love it here but we have a lot of help and if i didn't have my mom helping me with the kids and

00:09:11.080 she takes the big kids on overnight she sleeps here when i'm out of town uh i don't think i could

00:09:16.700 do the things that I do because it takes such a village it takes so many people to do this

00:09:21.660 and your mom is the one that like helped you decide where what to do next right yeah I mean

00:09:28.640 like I've always been a little fearless in terms of change and trying new things and so it wasn't

00:09:35.220 really the fear of doing something new it was like there was something else holding me back

00:09:38.840 and I think in hindsight I needed someone to give me permission to do something for myself and she

00:09:45.540 was that person for me. So we were, you know, we had gone down to visit. My parents at the time

00:09:52.820 lived, they were living their awesome retirement life in the Mexican Riviera. And we went down for

00:10:02.560 a very short vacation to visit because, you know, that's all I would give myself was a very, you

00:10:07.180 know, tiny couple of days off from work to take the kids down and see their grandparents and

00:10:11.440 and sit on the beach for a couple of days. And while we were there, you know, my mother looked

00:10:15.960 at me, she said, you, I think she just kind of looked at me and realized I was about to hit a

00:10:21.620 wall that I was, you know, she basically told me, she said, you're going to have a midlife crisis

00:10:26.100 if you don't stop and figure out a way to, you know, get yourself out of this place that you're

00:10:34.860 in. And she said, why don't you bring the kids this summer, take a summer off work, bring the

00:10:40.820 kids to me you stay here for the summer and write a book and at the time I thought that was I mean

00:10:49.820 I couldn't it was it felt like it was coming out of left field I was like where is this coming from

00:10:53.520 that you would even think I said this is the most selfish irresponsible thing I could imagine doing

00:10:57.940 I can't just take off work like I'm like my money's paying most of the bills I have clients

00:11:04.560 I have customers I have people that you know that I'm training I can't like you know the kids have

00:11:10.460 school we've got all this stuff going on like how how could I upheave my life just so I can take two

00:11:15.940 months to do something that frivolous and she said just think about it and I went home I took the

00:11:24.520 kids home after that vacation I did think about it and I kept thinking about it and then I couldn't

00:11:28.200 stop thinking about it and two weeks later I called her and I said we're coming and I don't

00:11:34.480 know what happened in those two weeks except that something she said felt like she had given me

00:11:41.200 permission to make a decision for myself to do something for me and maybe that's all I needed

00:11:47.940 was to hear it from someone else that it was okay to be selfish that it was okay to take a break

00:11:54.400 that it was okay to ask for help that it was okay not to do everything on my own

00:12:00.120 and like something clicked and I just I said we're coming and that summer I took two months

00:12:08.100 off of work and that's what we did oh I get I have heard this story now and I have have told

00:12:14.200 this story to other people and I still get chills when I hear it because I what the way you describe

00:12:21.360 having permission and that you felt like you needed permission and then and then you did

00:12:26.960 you did do it you went down there you went down there and you let your mom watch your kids and

00:12:33.900 you wrote every day right yeah um it was it was funny too because you know i got down there and

00:12:40.420 it's tempting to want to not do what you're down there to do or you tell yourself you're getting

00:12:44.500 down there to do because the beautiful beaches and beautiful weather and the kids are off

00:12:48.960 gallivanting and having a wonderful time with their grandparents every day and all i could

00:12:53.780 think was gosh maybe i could just enjoy a two-month vacation you know and in addition to being the

00:12:59.720 person that gave me permission to do this she was also my accountability partner my um every morning

00:13:04.360 my mom would take the kids and i had two little boys who are very very high energy kids um and so

00:13:10.800 you know every morning she'd take the kids and uh and put them in their bathing suits and take

00:13:17.140 them to the beach and she'd take them to the pool and she'd run them ragged and you know feed them 1.00

00:13:21.340 and dress them and bathe them. And, um, and she'd send me upstairs to this little dark room in the

00:13:27.960 attic. It was the only quiet place where I could get, you know, some writing done. And she sent me

00:13:33.640 up there every day while she took the kids out to have fun. And she said, go write your book.

00:13:38.880 And at the end of every day, she would wait at the bottom of the stairs. Uh, you know,

00:13:42.900 she'd have a hot dinner on the table. My kids were, were, were bathed, ready for bed. Um,

00:13:48.080 You know, like there was nothing I needed to do. All the mom load had been done for me. She had she had washed their clothes. She had prepared their their meal for the night. She had, you know, done all of the tough stuff. And I could come down at the end of the day and she would stand at the bottom of the stairs and hold out her hand and ask for my pages.

00:14:07.920 and i would have to i would have to at the end of every day center my chapter that i wrote

00:14:13.320 and so in two months the very last day we were there i typed the end of my first horrible terrible

00:14:22.140 most horrible sloppy awful novel ever written but it was finished i had done it it was finished

00:14:30.060 that was the most amazing feeling in the world like what a sense of accomplishment to have done

00:14:35.540 it and it felt so good, but there's no way, there's no way I could have made that leap that

00:14:41.980 I could have done even that much without accepting help. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

00:14:50.240 sometimes accepting that help is the hardest part of it. Yeah. Especially if we're, you know,

00:14:55.780 I'm the kind of person who has to control everything. Like I have to, I have to feel

00:15:00.700 like I have my finger on the pulse of everything. It's very, very hard for me to ask for help or

00:15:05.720 accept help. And so that was a really big step. And I think she knew that. And she just sort of

00:15:11.560 took the reins and just she she just handled mom business. She did what moms do. She handled the 1.00

00:15:17.060 business, but she did it for me and she did it for my kids. And and that was really the only thing

00:15:21.860 that made that leap that summer possible. And that was what opened the door to what would become

00:15:27.140 a whole life upheaval and career change. Well, I want to take a quick break here,

00:15:33.880 and when we get back, I want to hear about that life upheaval and career change. Definitely.

00:15:49.760 And we are back. So you've written the first draft of this novel, and you're still down in Mexico,

00:15:56.800 with your mom with your family what happens next what do you do with the draft of that book

00:16:03.540 and your and in the rest of your career yeah so this is you know this is where the fun started

00:16:09.720 um i we came home and i have to preface this by saying that i'm married to the most supportive

00:16:15.800 amazing partner ever um he and i have been together since since i was i was a teenager

00:16:22.760 We were we were in college and he's never batted an eye at a single one of my ridiculous

00:16:29.340 impulsive plans or anything I've ever suggested or done.

00:16:34.060 And so, of course, like when I told him I was taking the kids to Mexico for the summer

00:16:37.060 so I could, you know, take two months off and write a book, he he was very supportive.

00:16:41.740 He looked a little like a deer in headlights at the time, but he was very supportive.

00:16:44.700 And he said, of course, that's if you feel like that's what you want to do, we'll do

00:16:47.440 it.

00:16:48.300 But at that point, I came home and I could see the relief just wash over him when he asked,

00:16:54.740 Crate, you finished. Is it time to go back to work now? Because at the time, you know,

00:17:00.400 my career was sort of the one that we were really relying on. And so he, you know, very gently asked

00:17:08.000 if I was ready to go back to work. And I said, I think we should talk about that because I really

00:17:12.940 had a good time doing this. I feel like I've found something that I want to do. And I feel

00:17:19.580 like there's something here. And he asked a question at that point that was probably

00:17:24.740 the most important question anyone could have asked me. And he said, well, how do we know if

00:17:30.320 you're any good at it? Oh, and the people, the people in your life give good advice and also

00:17:37.040 ask good questions. I will tell you that. Yeah. And it's like it was so honest. Like, you know,

00:17:41.900 he said, are you good at it? And I said, I don't know the answer to that question. He said, well,

00:17:45.820 how do we find out? Like, how do we find out if this is something you can do? And that was the

00:17:50.980 question that I needed to hear. That was the permission, again, that I wasn't willing to give

00:17:56.160 myself to keep pushing forward. And so him, that prompt, that how do we find out what's the next

00:18:03.760 step? What do we do now? Was just the kick in the pants that I needed to go do my own research.

00:18:09.920 so I got home and I had this manuscript and I wasn't entirely sure what to do it with that I

00:18:14.740 had no training in this whatsoever my degree was in psychology I'd been selling houses for 12 years

00:18:19.880 you know I I had no no clue no clue at all what I was doing so of course I did you know what anyone

00:18:26.860 would do at that point I jumped on Google and I did a ton of searching into the industry what is

00:18:31.820 how what's involved with publishing a book what is a literary agent what do they do

00:18:35.920 who are the publishers how do I how do I start where do I start and and that process led me to

00:18:43.180 my first writing workshop and there happened to be literary agents and editors who were going to be

00:18:51.060 there and I was very very fortunate in that my first experience with that was really positive

00:18:57.020 and I got some great feedback that encouraged me again to keep pushing forward and so I took that

00:19:04.340 very messy awful horrible first draft and ended up you know I'm still not entirely sure how it

00:19:12.900 happened you know I'm sure luck and timing probably had a lot to do with it and a very

00:19:17.860 very solid query letter and I ended up landing with my first literary agent and um and at that

00:19:24.920 point I think we my husband and I both kind of looked at each other and we knew that maybe this

00:19:30.260 was possible i hadn't yet let go of the reins of my career in real estate i was sort of i had a

00:19:36.360 foot in both worlds at that point but this was a very promising sign that that maybe there was

00:19:41.780 something here i love that and i also love what what happens happens next um and so you you've

00:19:52.600 got you've got this agent you did well and you also you know let me back up for a second you

00:19:57.060 did the work and i think i mean the publishing industry is is so seems so daunting from the

00:20:04.140 outside it's like how does this even work how do you even even begin and i actually i did a book

00:20:09.860 event at midtown scholar in harrisburg the one that i was driving to jenny what driving to with

00:20:14.680 jenny uh the other day and instead of doing like my regular like talk about me and the sicilian

00:20:20.500 inheritance which you know i'm i'm sure everyone is sick of hearing about me i wanted to do an

00:20:25.760 event called how to write and publish anything where people could just ask me questions and it

00:20:30.840 could be more of like a town hall and yeah we we talked a little bit about sicilian but it was so

00:20:35.940 vibrant and exciting um to hear like what other people wanted to know about this industry it was

00:20:43.200 so cool and and the biggest question is most people think that you can just go directly to

00:20:47.740 a publisher um with an idea um and don't understand you know you have to query agents

00:20:53.400 and then be chosen by agents in a process that is weirdly similar to sorority rush.

00:20:59.040 And then, you know, then the agents go to the publishers. And so,

00:21:05.700 yeah. So even once you get to the agent, like what happens next?

00:21:11.000 Yeah. You know, there's so many misconceptions. And I can see why. I mean, it's not the most

00:21:17.560 transparent of industries. And there's so few people that are doing it successfully that they're

00:21:22.560 there are not a lot of resources out there there's you know and i think the internet makes it so much

00:21:27.400 easier to do the research so much easier yes well there's this demystification that happens when when

00:21:33.460 you really do a deep dive and so a lot of people really i think don't realize how challenging it

00:21:39.780 is how hard it can be to make that leap and um so yeah it was it was a process of kind of like you

00:21:48.940 said sorority rush, you know, you make your dream list of agents and try to find the right fit.

00:21:54.300 And then you polish, you know, you polish up your work and try to put your best foot forward with

00:22:00.160 this very professional business letter. It's essentially the query letter, which is the pitch

00:22:05.360 to try to see if someone will want to take you on. And I was very, very fortunate that

00:22:13.720 one of the agents I had queried saw something in this manuscript you know it clearly needed a lot

00:22:21.200 of work but she liked the voice which is another word that we hear a lot you know that needs some

00:22:26.500 demystification also probably but you know she liked the the voice of the character and I guess

00:22:32.480 in the way I was trying to tell this story and she saw something in it and she was willing to

00:22:37.880 take a chance on me which has to what i mean what was that what was that moment like after all of

00:22:43.840 this after you've you know blow up your life to go go away for the summer and then to have someone

00:22:51.480 validate you in that way and kind of answer the question how do you know if you're any good at

00:22:56.440 this what like what was that feeling like so there's so many moments about motherhood that

00:23:02.320 ground us even in the you know when when when something's going so right and we want it so

00:23:09.200 badly just to take a minute and let it go to our heads there's always something grounding about

00:23:13.180 motherhood and I think for me it was when I got that call that this agent wanted to take me on

00:23:19.540 if I remember correctly my kids had the stomach flu yeah that sounds right that sounds right so

00:23:24.980 I've got the cordless phone propped up between my ear and my shoulder and I've got one of them

00:23:30.140 going from one end and one of them going from the other end. And I'm trying to be really,

00:23:33.740 really excited about this. And at the same time, you know, there's, you know, there's always this

00:23:41.900 doubt in the back of your mind kind of shadowing every success, you know, with, are there more

00:23:47.400 important things I need to be worrying about? You know, should I really be taking this time

00:23:51.780 to celebrate? And so that day was just a blur, you know, it was a blur of just, you know, laundry

00:23:59.240 and doctor appointments and spit up and and and taking people's temperatures and um yeah it would

00:24:06.580 but i think at the end of the day i was able to sit back and still feel like i had accomplished

00:24:12.180 something for myself like i this was this was huge this was the first massive hurdle i was

00:24:18.900 going to have to overcome if this was going to be a reality this totally reminds me of when i found

00:24:25.700 out that we sold the Sicilian inheritance to Maya, my editor at Dutton, I was in a Burger King

00:24:34.320 bathroom, you know, much like the Humpty Dance, and just staring down, staring down a two-year-old

00:24:43.620 on the potty who refused to poop. And I had to pick up the phone because it was my agent,

00:24:48.800 and I pick it up, and I'm talking to her, and I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, you know,

00:24:54.020 the book the book the book got sold uh and and at the same time i'm just like dead staring my child 1.00

00:25:01.240 being like poo poo poo and then and she did it like freaking magic and i'm like this is how women 0.62

00:25:08.820 get it done isn't it funny how all of our great successes are still like they're still they're

00:25:18.080 little milestones in there that are so interwoven in our roles as moms. And I've always wondered,

00:25:25.060 like, do men in their careers have those same experiences? Or are they able just to enjoy that

00:25:31.180 moment without sitting on the floor of the Burger King bathroom with their kid, like,

00:25:35.600 trying to push one out? Like, what? I mean, like, I can't even imagine.

00:25:41.960 We are going to take one more quick break here. Be right back.

00:25:48.080 under the influence is brought to you by quince so i just got back from book tour last week and

00:25:57.120 right before i left i got one of the quince mongolian cashmere sweaters in the mail i got it

00:26:03.980 in this really really sexy green color and i i had all of these dresses planned for the sicilian

00:26:11.460 inheritance book tour events and then i ended up wearing this green cashmere sweater from quince

00:26:17.700 like at least half of the time that I was doing book events and podcast interviews because it

00:26:23.800 looked so good and I kept getting all of these compliments on it and you know that I love

00:26:27.880 compliments. So I was just very excited to add this into my book tour wardrobe. The best part

00:26:35.020 about this sweater, about this 100% Mongolian cashmere sweater from Quince, is that it is $50.

00:26:41.300 dollars. It's $50. Quince is luxury at an affordable price point. And I love that about

00:26:48.300 them. All Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. You deserve nice things. I

00:26:55.280 tell you that every day. And you deserve to be able to indulge in affordable luxury. So just go

00:27:01.940 to quince.com slash influence for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's a really

00:27:08.860 long time to return something. I mean, like really long. A lot of places won't let me even return

00:27:14.160 something I bought yesterday. That is Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash influence to get free

00:27:21.840 shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash influence.

00:27:27.520 under the influence is brought to you by honey love my favorite shapewear of all time it really

00:27:44.040 is i can talk about honey love all day long because it's truly that excellent yes the honey

00:27:50.660 love bra is the one that i'm wearing in my author photos yep just just wearing a bra under a hot

00:27:56.920 pink blazer. Because you know what? I've got some big Sicilian energy. I do. I do. And Honey Love

00:28:03.160 gives me that. It gives me this confidence to just strut around like a bold, brash goddess. 0.93

00:28:11.460 Yeah, I know that sounds like hyperbole. But have you seen my other photos? They are freaking hot,

00:28:17.140 my friends. They are. And as I start packing for the Sicilian Inheritance book tour,

00:28:22.560 you know that I'm bringing my honey love shorts and my honey love bra because I'm gonna tuck it

00:28:27.800 all in where I want to be tucked I have so many gross old bras in my drawers that I just I know

00:28:38.320 it's time to throw them out it's time it's time to make space and I am vowing to spring clean

00:28:45.060 my underwear drawer I am I am I'm gonna finally get rid of that Patagonia bra from 2012

00:28:51.440 Well, a few, too, are going to spring clean your underwear drawer.

00:28:55.540 Why not grab yourself some Honey Love?

00:28:56.780 You can get 20% off your entire order with our exclusive link, honeylove.com slash influence.

00:29:04.780 So to support our show, check them out at honeylove.com slash influence.

00:29:11.540 Treat yourself to Honey Love.

00:29:13.100 and we are back with el casimano one of my favorite people in the world and the author

00:29:22.380 of the best-selling finley donovan series when we left off we were sharing stories

00:29:27.880 about writing milestones amidst the madness and insanity of mothering many children

00:29:36.300 I do not think that my husband marks every career milestone with with a scene from a Burger King bathroom or holding holding a puking child. I think it is a woman thing and I think it is a mother thing. And, you know, I I've I've kind of I've reached a place of acceptance with it, too, that I am both of these things, that I am a mom and I am a writer.

00:29:59.020 And I actually know that there's a there's there's a few female writers out there who really don't like to be asked about how they do both things, how they parent and and also have children because male writers don't get asked that question.

00:30:16.340 Right. And I get that. I do. But at the same time, if we don't talk about it, if we don't talk about how we juggle these things, then younger women who want to do these things won't have role models. They won't see how you're doing the labor and how you're doing the work. And maybe it's not fair that we get asked the question, but I like to share how I'm doing both of the things.

00:30:38.160 I think it's also important, the more we talk about it, the more people recognize it. And I think that's important, too. It's easy to kind of push those roles aside or, you know, cover them up or not talk about how taxing they are or the impact they have.

00:30:57.340 and and then I think in doing so sometimes we tend to continue burdening ourselves like because

00:31:03.440 we're letting people continue to to put things upon us if that makes sense yeah yeah I think

00:31:10.320 sometimes it's important to put it out there and say hey this is also happening in our world all

00:31:15.220 at the same time yes and and just be out there with it and and yeah I can't because I can't

00:31:21.580 imagine my work day not intertwined with all of those other parts of who I am and am expected to

00:31:30.080 be exactly exactly and I I like what you said about showing the labor like I think when we

00:31:35.660 don't show the labor the labor gets discounted yes yes you said that's so much better than I did

00:31:40.920 and that's exactly how you said it that's exactly how it came to my ears from you so you know good

00:31:47.360 And so, all right, so you get this agent and you've got a manuscript and what your agent,

00:31:52.980 you had told me this story, your agent connected you with other women, which is another part of

00:31:58.500 this story that I love so much. Tell me about that. Yeah. So like I said, I had no idea what

00:32:04.620 I was doing. This is all very, very new to me. My book was a mess. My agent was struggling a bit

00:32:11.220 with me because I was having a very hard time understanding why it was a mess and how to fix

00:32:16.260 it and she while she was a very savvy business person she wasn't necessarily a great writing

00:32:22.160 teacher writing coach and so we kind of hit this point where she was getting frustrated with me and

00:32:27.720 I kind of felt like she was on the brink of giving up and I was getting frustrated feel like maybe I

00:32:31.480 couldn't do this I couldn't get this book to a place where we could actually do something with

00:32:35.040 it and she said what you need are some critique partners and at the time I didn't have anyone

00:32:40.580 there was no one in my world that I could share this experience with other than her you know and

00:32:45.380 And so she put me in touch in an email thread with two other debut novelists who she had

00:32:55.180 recently signed on as clients who were in a very similar place in their lives.

00:32:59.920 They were both mothers of pretty young kids.

00:33:02.960 They were both coming from completely different careers.

00:33:06.420 We were all very, very new at this.

00:33:08.440 None of us had degrees in this.

00:33:10.120 None of us knew what we were doing.

00:33:11.300 And I think we're all to some degree struggling and we had no support system.

00:33:14.740 And so she put us in an email thread together and she said, you know, Ashley Elston, Megan Miranda, El Casamano, introduce each other.

00:33:25.120 You all are now a critique book.

00:33:27.620 Go fix each other's books.

00:33:30.120 And it was it was kind of this terrifying moment, like kind of being thrown into a party and not knowing anybody.

00:33:38.000 And so we spent a couple of tentative emails back and forth introducing ourselves and chatting.

00:33:43.960 And what we realized very quickly is we had so much in common.

00:33:48.060 We were we were at these very similar points in our lives with a lot of the same fears and hesitations and the same challenges in terms of how do we do this?

00:33:56.040 Right. And we bonded almost immediately over that and very quickly started sharing work and realizing that this was not only a compatible working relationship, but it was a really compatible friendship, too.

00:34:08.420 and we became very very close and that was back in uh i guess it was 2011 maybe um yeah probably

00:34:17.620 late 2011 or mid 2011 and we have been writing partners and critique buddies ever since so um

00:34:25.440 but not only that like you know there i can't think of a day that goes by when we're not texting

00:34:29.720 each other or or talking about you know work related things or how our kids are doing or what

00:34:35.420 it was like to send them off to college. And we've been there for all of it. And it's been

00:34:42.000 such an amazing and beautiful thing. And when I look back, there were so many times, and you know

00:34:47.720 it, there's so many times when this career just wants to crush you. This industry wants to crush

00:34:51.980 you. It is designed to weed people out. And it can be soul battering. And there were days when

00:35:00.340 I thought to myself, why am I doing this? You know, why am I, why am I beating my head against

00:35:05.140 the wall? Why am I cutting myself open and putting my guts out on the page for the, you know, for the

00:35:10.980 world to, to abuse for, for, and some, you know, at the beginning for, you know, pennies, like, how

00:35:17.960 is this, how is, why did I do this? And then they were the ones who always reminded me why there's

00:35:23.980 a community here um they are they were the ones who on the hardest days made me laugh reminded me

00:35:33.200 about the fun parts of this job and encouraged me to keep going and some in some cases kicked me in

00:35:39.060 the ass and and told me you know just go back to work like keep keep working keep writing you've

00:35:44.240 got this and and they've been throughout this entire journey sort of the joy but also the 0.99

00:35:52.820 backbone for me. Yeah. Yeah. I will say that my female friends and especially my female

00:36:00.280 writer friends, namely like Glynis McNichol, who's on this podcast a lot. And I have to get you a

00:36:07.160 copy of her new book. I think I mentioned it to you. It's the one, the memoir where she went to

00:36:12.360 Paris the summer after the pandemic as a single unmarried woman and just had a lot of sex and ate

00:36:17.040 a lot of cheese i love it i know i know i mean it's just everything i want in a book just just 0.93

00:36:23.200 sex and cheese and she uh i mean she's my backbone she she keeps me going on days when this is hard

00:36:31.440 and soul crushing and i mean i think a lot of industries are difficult but you know not every

00:36:37.480 industry are you kind of putting yourself out there in in a way like this where for people to 0.79

00:36:44.040 critique you i mean i i i made the mistake of reading a podcast review today which was dumb 0.95

00:36:49.860 and i'm not letting myself read any sicilian inheritance reviews i'm not um but i the women

00:36:56.640 that have supported me and the women that have supported me in the past two weeks this community

00:37:00.120 of authors is really amazing and you are one of them and i've just gotten notes uh when we didn't

00:37:06.000 make the new york times bestseller list which you know i work it's very hard right now and i worked

00:37:11.080 so hard to do it, not for any ego reasons, but because, you know, it just it makes it easier to

00:37:16.880 sell another book. It makes it easier to do the things I want to keep doing. And but I heard from,

00:37:22.720 you know, Patty Henry and Fiona Davis and all of these incredible women that I look up to as

00:37:27.980 authors who've been here to support me. And I just yeah, that's the importance of women supporting

00:37:35.640 other women and building each other up. It's one of the main themes that I like to write about. And

00:37:40.260 And I'm just, it's so important.

00:37:43.020 It's the one thing I want to talk about literally every day in every podcast episode.

00:37:48.740 And I think that was really, for me, so much of what became the heart and soul of the Finley Donovan books.

00:37:55.800 I mean, those books were inspired by a moment with my critique partners, but the relationship has inspired kind of the soul of the series.

00:38:07.220 It's really the heart of what those books are about.

00:38:10.260 It's about, you know, women lifting each other up and supporting each other unconditionally.

00:38:16.160 And the importance of that, like what we stand to lose when we don't have it.

00:38:22.180 And it was sort of my homage to that relationship.

00:38:27.780 Yes, I adore Finley and Vero's relationship in the Finley Donovan series.

00:38:33.940 And what I like about it, and I like a lot of things about it, they're very funny.

00:38:39.100 You make me laugh out loud on the page all the time.

00:38:42.340 But it is.

00:38:44.120 It's the support.

00:38:45.080 And it's the fact that you write about their friendship the way that a lot of writers would write about a romantic relationship.

00:38:51.240 In that you give it the same weight and the same stakes and the same consequences.

00:38:56.680 And I don't think we see that enough on the page, even though I know that so many of us women are living it in real life.

00:39:04.380 Yeah.

00:39:04.560 Yeah. And it's funny because that's one of the biggest questions that I always get at events is, are you, you know, we had a couple of very spectacular romantic interests in the book. And of course, everyone wants to know who's my favorite. Are you team Nick? Are you team Julian? Like, and my answer is always, I'm team Vero. Like at the end of the day, this book is a, you know, we've got some great relationships going on because in these books, we explore every facet of what it means to be a woman. And those are parts of that.

00:39:33.000 But the heart of the story is the friendship and the real relationship at its core, at its center is Finley and Barrows. And and so for me, at the end of the day, you know, as long as the two of them end up on the couch together, eating bonbons and watching TV and remembering that they're each other's ride or die.

00:39:53.200 Like, I've done my job. Like, I feel good about that. And I think so many readers and so many women have found that that surprised them, like how much they also maybe needed that, too, to read about that.

00:40:07.440 because the romance is a lot of fun and it's you know it's I love I love to read romance it's one

00:40:14.420 of my very very favorite genres to read when I'm reading for myself but I think there's something

00:40:20.420 exceptional and extraordinarily unique when we also look at the depth of a great friendship

00:40:28.960 and and what it can be yeah yeah absolutely absolutely i uh have you watched the tv show

00:40:37.540 younger no oh it's good oh you if you want like just bite-sized candy about the publishing

00:40:43.580 industry it's it's delightful and delicious and okay i i binge watched it because they hired me

00:40:49.180 to write a book that had been mentioned in the tv show which is just like a sassy trashy romance

00:40:56.000 and it has a life it has a love triangle in it and people are constantly asking me the same thing

00:41:01.660 are you team charles are you team josh and i'm like i'm team liza and kelsey like i want their

00:41:05.260 friendship to succeed i'm always like rooting for the female friendship everything about our talk

00:41:11.800 today just inspired me you continue to inspire me you do you do i i feel like we were we were

00:41:17.620 destined to meet in crozet virginia um well here's the thing again were we destined or was it women

00:41:24.820 helping other women, because if you think about it, it was a phenomenal woman who connected us. 0.68

00:41:29.880 It was a phenomenal woman who connected us. Flannery Buchanan, who launched the Bluebird

00:41:35.620 Bookstop bookstore, connected us. She has been my champion for the past two years.

00:41:43.660 Did I tell you that she drove up here with all of the copies of The Sicilian Inheritance so that

00:41:49.880 I could sign them? And she has just been hand-selling that book. And she told me from the

00:41:54.000 very beginning she's like you two have to meet you two have to meet and then she made it happen

00:41:57.960 so it wasn't destined it was it was designed by by another human extraordinary woman exactly

00:42:05.680 exactly i love it so much i love it i love it i love it almost as much as i love the finley

00:42:11.280 donovan series which i which i have bought for so many of my female friends it's now one of my go-to

00:42:16.780 uh birthday presents oh i love hearing that i love it it's a book that kind of it it that that

00:42:24.460 series is just one that begs to be shared it's one that it's almost more fun to read it with a

00:42:29.660 friend exactly exactly and so yeah i have been i've been just handing it out like like strangers

00:42:35.560 hand out candy to children in the 80s uh to everyone that i know because i love it so much

00:42:42.540 and I love you and I will see you very soon. I cannot wait. I love you too. It's been wonderful.

00:42:47.580 You're the best. Oh, and that is all we have for today. Elle brings me so much joy. I love her

00:42:56.640 story about blowing up her life, about being given permission, about how she thought she needed

00:43:02.580 permission, because I think a lot of us feel the same way. I think we have big dreams and we want

00:43:10.360 to make a change, but we often as women need someone else to tell us, it's okay. Try this

00:43:18.640 thing. I will help you. And yeah, I still get chills when I hear her story. I also love the

00:43:25.780 part where she is paired up with other women writers who are also switching careers and they

00:43:30.800 just lift each other up and support one another. And it is gorgeous and beautiful. If you happen

00:43:38.380 to be looking for a cozy mystery that is also hilarious and just a fun read, please pick up

00:43:46.220 the Finley Donovan series. There's many books that you can binge right now. They are everywhere

00:43:50.200 where you buy books. And you know what else is everywhere you buy books? The Sicilian freaking

00:43:55.520 inheritance. Get it now. Get it while it's hot, my friends. I'm heading to Puerto Rico for my 0.98

00:44:01.700 husband's 50th birthday. He's 50, and now I can officially call him an old man, and I'm very,

00:44:07.080 very excited about that because everyone thinks he's younger than me because he has such great

00:44:11.700 hair. Yeah. Yeah. It's annoying. All right. Go have a great day. Bye, guys.

00:44:37.080 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - April 23, 2024

Blowing Up Your Life (To Follow Your Dreams) with Elle Cosimano

Episode Stats

Transcript