Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - August 11, 2023


BONUS: The Business of Laura Ingalls Wilder

Topics
Women's Day Off the Internet is Not Today Who the hell is Ruby Franke?

Episode Stats


Length

41 minutes

Words per minute

151.32

Word count

6,224

Sentence count

414

Harmful content

Misogyny

12

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Hi, guys. It's been a long time since we've been under the influence together,
00:00:04.960 but I've been a little busy. My new novel, The Best Thing That I've Ever Written,
00:00:10.720 The Sicilian Inheritance, is now finished, and it's going to be in the world next April.
00:00:17.360 It's available for pre-order now on Amazon and all indie bookstores, and it's amazing.
00:00:23.120 I'm also working on a companion true crime podcast about the book that you'll be hearing
00:00:29.520 a lot more about very soon. And most importantly, I have been finishing up a really, truly excellent
00:00:37.640 podcast called Wilder. Some of you might know about it. It's about the life and the legacy of
00:00:44.520 the children's book author, Laura Ingalls Wilder. And I've been working on it with my very best
00:00:50.640 friend and working partner, collaborator, Glynis McNichol. We've been working on it for a really
00:00:57.480 long time, actually. And we took this awesome road trip out to every place that Laura Ingalls
00:01:03.460 Wilder ever lived last summer. I was pregnant and, you know, tired and big, and it was pretty
00:01:12.800 great. Our reporting was so much fun, and we discovered so many stories about Laura that we
00:01:19.140 had never heard before. Some of them good, some of them bad, a lot of them in the gray areas in
00:01:24.520 between. And it's all in the Wilder podcast, which is available right now wherever you get
00:01:30.520 your podcasts. This week, I took over Wilder. For a lot of the series, Glynis, who is obsessed
00:01:37.900 with Laura Ingalls Wilder, is the one who hosts and narrates the show. This week, we did a whole
00:01:44.140 episode about how Laura Ingalls Wilder was the original influencer. I mean, think about it.
00:01:51.000 Think about nap dresses, about prairie core, cottage core, the American girl dolls, the
00:01:56.740 pioneer woman, like all of the cozy things we buy for our houses.
00:02:01.040 I think that can all be traced back to Laura.
00:02:03.140 And besides that, besides that level of influence, she is also big business.
00:02:08.780 The Laura Ingalls Wilder brand is worth millions of dollars still today, nearly a century after
00:02:15.100 the books were published.
00:02:16.740 So this week's episode of Wilder is about the business and the influence of Laura.
00:02:21.740 And I think you guys are really going to love it.
00:02:24.520 So I'm dropping it into the feed.
00:02:26.600 Happy listening.
00:02:28.560 Hi, Glenn.
00:02:29.680 Good morning. 0.56
00:02:30.820 I'm passing the pig splatter baton. 1.00
00:02:33.860 We should get one of those. 1.00
00:02:35.020 You know what?
00:02:35.800 I'll bet someone makes one and sells it for like $70.
00:02:39.820 I'm sure if we went on Etsy right now, we would find a number of pig splatters that
00:02:44.180 were branded with Little House.
00:02:46.020 By the end of the episode, we will find out where to buy a pig's bladder baton.
00:02:51.880 And with that, the business of Laura.
00:02:59.460 Thank you.
00:03:02.760 We have cups.
00:03:04.660 We have T-shirts.
00:03:07.300 Of course, the books always go.
00:03:09.940 And, I mean, I've had almost $1,100 sales today.
00:03:15.460 Really?
00:03:16.020 When you're on the road going from Laura Ingalls Museum to Laura Ingalls Museum, you're inevitably going to go to a lot of Laura gift shops.
00:03:25.000 There's little porcelain jack dogs for $10.
00:03:29.160 Oh, there's a Laura Ingalls Wilder Homies. I might have to get a coffee cup.
00:03:32.480 I actually love that.
00:03:33.520 Yeah.
00:03:34.460 Coffee cups might be coming, too.
00:03:36.840 I like these, too.
00:03:38.840 The shops have everything.
00:03:41.780 Not just books, but mugs, dolls, bonnets, candy.
00:03:46.660 Pretty much anything you might need to cosplay the prairie life.
00:03:50.820 What's the biggest seller in the store?
00:03:54.160 Usually tin cups.
00:03:56.140 Everybody says, oh yes, because that was the very first episode.
00:03:59.260 Laura and Mary got their own tin cups.
00:04:00.840 Okay, I should get some tin cups.
00:04:02.180 When Glynis, Emily, and I were on the road last summer, we spent a lot of money on gifts.
00:04:07.360 Tin cups included.
00:04:08.800 Typical little tin cups, yeah.
00:04:10.120 They're cute.
00:04:11.380 Those are one of the most popular.
00:04:12.940 And then our slates with...
00:04:14.760 And it's not just us.
00:04:16.360 Hordes of people do this every summer.
00:04:19.400 Over the whole year, we can get up between 10,000 to probably 12,000 a year.
00:04:25.300 We've had 20,000 in one year.
00:04:27.840 They come from all over the world.
00:04:29.480 Wow, look at all of these people today.
00:04:31.500 This is all today.
00:04:32.580 Oh my gosh.
00:04:35.480 All right, should we name the states that are here today?
00:04:37.600 Yeah, here.
00:04:38.000 Minnesota, Kansas, Nevada, New York, Illinois, Georgia, Ohio, California, North Dakota, Germany, Oregon, Norway, Idaho, Texas, Virginia.
00:04:56.680 When Laura Ingalls Wilder set out to write her life story in the Little House series, she wanted to be a writer, an author, a successful one.
00:05:06.740 Today, almost a century later, between the books, TV show, and the intense tourism culture
00:05:14.080 around her, Laura is undoubtedly a brand.
00:05:18.580 Anyone who writes books today, much like Glynis and I do, know that writers have to become
00:05:23.780 a sort of brand in order to survive, to build an audience, and to sell enough books to keep
00:05:28.920 their careers going.
00:05:30.560 And the most successful writers spawn entire industries around their stories.
00:05:35.740 industries of movies television and media companies magazines and sometimes even stuff goods and
00:05:42.700 services that wasn't the case when laura sat down to write she just wanted to get those books out
00:05:49.180 there i actually don't believe that she could have even imagined the many products
00:05:54.220 and platforms that she inspired both directly and indirectly if you are struggling with what
00:06:01.740 where this summer this aesthetic is for you so i like to call this look clean romantic prairie
00:06:07.740 cottage i mean i think you can just look at the popularity of cottage core as a aesthetic on
00:06:14.000 tiktok first day of school cottage core okay y'all are gonna think i'm crazy but going with
00:06:19.520 a bonnet this dedication to living a very simple homespun life people are getting millions and 0.72
00:06:28.840 millions of followers by almost cosplaying as frontiers women.
00:06:34.760 To be perfectly honest, when this line hit Target stores, I was actually a huge fan of
00:06:38.360 it because, one, I love Little House on the Prairie.
00:06:40.720 I grew up with it.
00:06:41.720 And two, I act with it.
00:06:42.960 It can easily be argued that brands like the American Girl Dolls, the Pioneer Woman, Hill
00:06:48.140 House Home, and all of the nap dresses all had Laura to thank for laying the groundwork
00:06:54.020 of prairie life nostalgia.
00:06:55.440 I think a few brands that come to mind are Christy Dawn, Lots of Calico, Cotton Dresses, The Nap Dress by Hill House Home, Doen.
00:07:07.640 Entire home goods companies have been inspired by prairie nostalgia, including one created by TV Laura herself, Melissa Gilbert.
00:07:16.860 It really started out as a retail line, sort of, but there's more to it than that.
00:07:22.540 It's a place for women over a certain age.
00:07:27.460 Women like me.
00:07:28.940 From nap dresses, to bonnets, to butter churns, paper dolls, tin cups, and many, many, many spinoff books.
00:07:38.640 There is an entire industry of Laura that she never could have conceived of.
00:07:43.980 Though I kind of bet Rose could have imagined it.
00:07:46.860 And as always, it thrives when times get hard, when people get fed up with their lives and have an urge to look back to a simpler era.
00:07:55.660 We've had, in the past 20 years, two pretty big crises.
00:08:01.120 One was the financial crisis of 2008, and then, of course, there was the pandemic that we all lived through.
00:08:07.520 And in each of those cases, the interest in Little House spiked.
00:08:11.480 it is not a leap at all to say that laura ingalls wilder may have been one of the very
00:08:18.600 first influencers what i want to know is how did all of this get so popular how did the fantasy
00:08:26.160 of prairie life get sold to millions i'm joe piazza and this is the business of wilder
00:08:41.480 Thank you.
00:09:11.480 That's Glennis and Emily arriving at the Prairie House Manor Bed and Breakfast in DeSmet, South Dakota.
00:09:30.640 I sadly wasn't with them for this part of the trip, and I have a lot of FOMO about that.
00:09:35.420 But when they arrived, they found this very unexpected story.
00:09:39.080 You found Laura's influence, her sphere of influence, in a place that you didn't expect.
00:09:46.280 You found that she had inspired this couple.
00:09:48.800 It was Rob and Eric, right?
00:09:50.760 During COVID, they'd done a road trip.
00:09:52.700 They'd come to DeSmet.
00:09:54.300 They had grown up loving Laura Ingalls and decided to uproot their life from Denver and take over this.
00:10:00.600 From a big city.
00:10:01.540 From a big city. 0.96
00:10:02.600 Big freaking city, yeah. 0.84
00:10:03.600 where they'd been for years and had uprooted and come to DeSmet and taken over this bed and 0.95
00:10:11.280 breakfast in the heart of DeSmet. We had to book into their, you know, months in advance to get
00:10:16.240 that spot to run this. And it was, and when we talked to them, they just went on about how much
00:10:22.300 they've loved the television show, Laura, and the fond memories of being read the books in school.
00:10:27.200 And it just, I mean, we know this, but also it never ceases to sort of amaze and surprise at like the reach she has, but also like the level of devotion, right?
00:10:39.140 Like that's a big life change.
00:10:41.420 That's a huge life change and also a very kind of TV movie inspiring one.
00:10:47.480 I'm just uprooting my life in the big city to open a little B&B centered around Laura Ingalls Wilder.
00:10:53.640 so they fled big city life they bought the prairie manor and now they're running an inn
00:10:59.940 together they have a business that is directly based on laura it seems surreal sometimes like
00:11:06.940 when we come back from the grocery store and i see the house i'm like wow that's ours
00:11:09.780 rob and eric are just you know the tip of the iceberg in terms of families who've tapped into
00:11:16.440 their love of laura in one way or the other and turned it into a huge business like we met ann
00:11:21.540 Lesh who runs the homestead site and her family bought that in the late 90s and she talks about
00:11:27.420 growing up being read the book. My parents and my brothers came on vacation in 1996 and it was for
00:11:36.280 sale and it had been farmed for many years and the family that was farming it at that time they
00:11:42.240 were older and wanting to you know move on and sell it and stuff and so that's really how we
00:11:47.760 came across it. So we purchased the homestead in 1997 and then have, over the past 25 years,
00:11:54.960 kind of built it up into what it is and welcomed thousands and thousands of visitors over the years.
00:12:01.100 It's amazing to me that there is not just one, but two, and probably many more of these kinds
00:12:08.040 of stories, that Laura's Jaw is so strong that just one vacation can uproot an entire life.
00:12:14.800 And it's worth reminding us that these towns are very, very small.
00:12:19.880 Laura isn't just a business in these places.
00:12:22.560 She is the main industry.
00:12:25.320 Let me put this in perspective for you.
00:12:26.760 The town of De Smet has about the same population now as the time when Laura lived there.
00:12:31.200 Burr Oak, where the Ingalls worked in the hotel, isn't even a town anymore.
00:12:35.500 It's an incorporated community.
00:12:37.380 But it still gets visitors and foot traffic because of Laura.
00:12:40.640 And remember from our very first episode how we told you that Walnut Grove seemed like a ghost town until we got to the gift shop?
00:12:47.800 It's businesses like that and the summer pageants that genuinely help the town's yearly bottom line.
00:12:54.020 It is an economic boost.
00:12:55.860 As pageant director Bill Richards explained to us.
00:12:58.220 We use a lot of local people for supplies, for lumber, for concrete, for construction work, electrical, plumbing, all of that kind of stuff.
00:13:07.500 The businesses that get the biggest boost would be probably like the convenience store, Nellie's Cafe and the bar and things like that.
00:13:18.520 The other ones are more, I would call, secondary effect, where because you have people that we hire out here, that has a multiplier effect as well.
00:13:28.340 Those houses, museums and stores are all independently run.
00:13:32.780 But then they also sell and profit off the things that are licensed from the books.
00:13:37.500 the books themselves, and the many, many sequels and offshoots of them that came long after Laura
00:13:42.660 passed away. And what I keep thinking again and again is whether or not Laura would have actually
00:13:48.240 wanted this. How did Little House go from just a book series to a brand that can actually be
00:13:55.160 licensed? Of course, I had to talk to Glynis because she is the expert on all things Laura.
00:14:01.460 All right, so we're looking at the big business of Laura, all of the stuff that's being sold, all of the TV shows, the extra books. Do you think that this is what Laura would have wanted for her legacy?
00:14:19.500 It's so hard to say, because could Laura have envisioned any of this is a question I wonder.
00:14:24.920 Could she have envisioned the books having this impact and having this legacy? We know that she
00:14:29.440 wanted to leave a significant part of the Little House rights to the local Mansfield library.
00:14:35.960 And that feels, though, like very in keeping with Laura, like sort of a small vision for
00:14:40.820 her afterlife, so to speak, of like, these could be a nice thing for the local library and the
00:14:46.700 town that I've lived in for decades that she didn't even really leave after the books. I think
00:14:51.360 she left once after the books sort of became successful. So that feels like a small, sweet
00:14:55.980 vision of her giving back. And that's definitely not a description, as we know, of what has actually
00:15:03.840 happened to the legacy. And that didn't happen because Rose ignored those wishes and granted
00:15:13.220 the literary estate to Roger Lee McBride. Yeah. I mean, this has to be one of the great
00:15:21.220 random inheritances in literary history. I mean, Roger Lee McBride's
00:15:26.960 fate intertwining with Little House is wild. And even as a kid, I would be like,
00:15:33.480 this is Roger Lee McBride person that keeps getting mentioned on the back cover of the book.
00:15:37.980 Laura never met him, which is incredible, don't you think?
00:15:41.900 It's incredible.
00:15:43.120 Yeah, it's wild.
00:15:44.780 And at the same time, we know from all the episodes we did that Laura and Rose's life, emotional, financial, everything, life was so enmeshed.
00:15:53.660 So maybe Rose thought that she had not just permission, but the right to do what she wanted with it.
00:15:58.580 I mean, who knows?
00:15:59.480 And it was Roger who ended up selling the rights to the friendly family.
00:16:06.180 Yeah. I mean, we know that Laura and Rose had turned down offers from radio to serialize the
00:16:13.780 books. This is sort of before TV was such a huge thing. And we know they consistently turned it
00:16:18.620 down. So as soon as Rose dies, almost immediately, Roger does a 180, takes it to Hollywood to meet
00:16:28.200 with Disney, and then fate intervenes and he ends up selling it to Ed Friendly, which is how we
00:16:33.420 have Michael Landon. Well, which is how we really have the business of Laura, because the friendly
00:16:38.760 family took on the copyrights and they've created a massive industry around Laura and Little House
00:16:48.640 that I don't think she ever could have imagined. I mean, I don't know that I could have imagined it
00:16:55.140 as a child. So much of this is internet fueled, too, I think. I would just like try and make
00:17:01.500 these clothes for myself as a kid are like staple brown yarn braids to everything I owned. And now
00:17:07.400 you can go to Etsy or to Amazon and buy all of this stuff and it all exists. And that I think
00:17:14.600 is like the collision of fandom legacy licensing, the internet. It's just, it's so accessible now.
00:17:23.160 When we get back from the break, we are going to talk to the family that ended up with the
00:17:27.180 rights to all things Little House? How'd they get it? And what's their intention with Laura's
00:17:32.080 legacy? And finally, what kind of stuff is being created from it?
00:17:43.800 My father at Friendly acquired the rights to the Little House books from a man named Roger Lee
00:17:50.920 McBride. That's Trip Friendly. You heard from him in our TV episode telling the story of how
00:17:57.100 his father created the Little House television series. These days, Roger Lee McBride's daughter
00:18:03.060 still owns the copyrights on the Little House books, but the Friendly Family owns the licensing
00:18:08.500 for products and media. Friendly Family Productions owns film, television, merchandising, theme park,
00:18:15.980 and other rights to the classic books by Laura Ingalls Wilder, as well as to the Little House
00:18:21.240 on the Prairie trademark. When the television program was first broadcast on NBC in the 1970s
00:18:27.600 and early 1980s, my father created a licensing program which included lunchboxes, dinner plates,
00:18:35.020 beverageware, posters, puzzles, board games, calendars, costumes, McCall patterns, and many
00:18:40.780 other items. The Friendlies take their role very seriously. They know that Laura holds sentimental
00:18:47.280 value for a lot of people. None of us know how Laura would feel about these products today,
00:18:53.580 but the things that are licensed definitely feel in line with the wholesome, cozy nature of Laura's
00:18:59.400 children's books. We've worked with a selective group of licensees that we believe reflect the
00:19:06.200 values of the Little House on the Prairie brand and which we hope would resonate with families
00:19:12.140 and fans today so simple joy optimism charm and craftsmanship i would say are integral parts
00:19:20.400 we would probably reject any inquiries that are not consistent with the brand values or
00:19:26.220 are quote-unquote r-rated such as alcohol gambling other sort of vice products how much
00:19:36.660 impact can a product actually have when it comes to the legacy of little house there's so much
00:19:41.780 stuff that I wanted to find an example of a company truly manufacturing in the spirit of
00:19:46.580 Laura Ingalls Wilder. The Queen's Treasures in particular has been a longtime licensee
00:19:51.640 and they continue to expand their line of dolls and doll accessories. That's Rebecca Friendly, 0.90
00:19:59.860 Tripp's daughter and one of the driving forces behind continuing Laura's legacy. 0.62
00:20:03.180 They have some beautiful 18-inch dolls. We started with Laura, then Mary, and most recently Nellie.
00:20:10.720 They, of course, each have a variety of outfits and accessories, and there are some amazing doll-sized scenes.
00:20:21.120 So we have, obviously, a Laura doll, and Laura actually comes in a nightgown with a cap like they used to wear, and her box turns into a bed, so even the box can be used.
00:20:35.880 That's Joanne Cartiglia, the president of the Queen's Treasures Toy Company.
00:20:40.000 Queen's Treasures makes pretty much every accessory that you could possibly imagine for a Little House doll set. 0.59
00:20:45.920 Mary comes dressed in a pretty blue dress and she has a lunch pail, which has the typical things that she would have brought to lunch.
00:20:54.120 Cheese, a hard-boiled egg, a little molasses cookie, a biscuit, that kind of thing.
00:20:58.460 And she comes, of course, with a little chalkboard.
00:21:01.580 We have a black cook stove.
00:21:05.080 We have clothing.
00:21:05.620 We're actually working on a Olsen's Mercantile, which is really going to be cool, that kids can open up and they can play shop.
00:21:15.060 Joanne started her toy business in her garage in 2003 by making doll trunks and accessories.
00:21:20.940 Eventually, she started focusing on Laura because she thought that story would be inspiring to young kids.
00:21:26.480 We wanted to do Women Who Changed the World. And Laura Ingalls Wilder was literally the first
00:21:35.980 novelist I became obsessed with. I have reread those books, I can't tell you how many times.
00:21:42.680 It just transports you to a place where, for me, looking back, children don't go now.
00:21:49.660 You know, every child you see has something electronic that they're obsessed with and staring at, and they don't have any sense of what history is.
00:22:01.720 But Laura, she just resonates with me.
00:22:05.420 She resonates with our customer base.
00:22:08.020 I think people are looking for a simpler time for children. 0.56
00:22:13.960 Joanne's goal isn't just to tap into demand for Laura and Little House.
00:22:17.480 but to use those stories to influence people, small people, children.
00:22:23.540 We put these Imagine This cards in with each product that says,
00:22:28.620 imagine life over 100 years ago when there was no electricity
00:22:32.540 and to cook on a stove you had to bring in wood and wait for the stove to heat up.
00:22:37.720 And, you know, we just go through scenarios that maybe children wouldn't even think about today.
00:22:43.740 um we have a lot of homeschoolers that love our products so we really do try to keep it in an
00:22:52.100 educational vein Laura was all about language if you think about it and for me she was I believe
00:23:01.100 64 when her book got I'm hoping I got a few years for that not that many I'm hoping at 64
00:23:08.860 Or something really crazy goes on with this company, too.
00:23:12.660 But until then, I'm going to still keep developing and designing toys and trying to bring inspiration to children and try to get them to read and play and pretend they need their own voices now.
00:23:29.520 So that's my mission.
00:23:32.840 It's not just the kids who are learning from these dolls.
00:23:35.540 Joanne told me herself that she's felt way more connected to Laura and the lessons of the Ingalls and Prairie Life while she's been building this brand.
00:23:43.920 I feel a little bit like a pioneer, if you will.
00:23:48.740 You know, persistence and being able to face a problem and move on.
00:23:56.220 They had so much adversity that happened in their life, and they still smiled at the end of the day and appreciated what they had.
00:24:08.620 It's the simplicity that we keep coming back to.
00:24:12.320 The urge to go back to basics, have real, concrete experiences, get offline.
00:24:19.720 We hear it over and over and over again in our increasingly connected digital age.
00:24:25.720 Now, so far in this episode, we've been looking at businesses that start with Laura,
00:24:30.320 but a lot of them go way beyond her.
00:24:32.640 They spin the wholesome, cozy feeling of the books into our modern world
00:24:35.980 in ways that you might not even notice.
00:24:38.920 After the break, we're getting into the products and trends
00:24:41.180 that are catching fire all over the internet,
00:24:43.180 who owe their success to promising all of us a taste of the prairie lifestyle.
00:24:47.960 oh let's go into the don't store what is the don't store i've never even heard of it
00:24:59.240 it's like you know those flowery prairie dresses that i wear all the time yes i do uh-huh yeah
00:25:06.380 this is where it all happens this is where's the that's me and my co-author christine pride
00:25:11.420 on our book tour in la we had some time to kill and naturally i felt myself drifting towards a
00:25:17.340 store that sold prairie dresses.
00:25:20.100 I'm going to buy yet another overpriced prairie dress.
00:25:26.200 Oh, yep.
00:25:26.920 I see what you're talking about.
00:25:27.680 You see?
00:25:28.140 You see what I mean?
00:25:28.940 You see what I mean?
00:25:30.140 They're cute.
00:25:31.240 No, I know.
00:25:31.620 They're like real cute.
00:25:34.040 You could totally see Laura wearing these, right? 0.89
00:25:37.460 Lavender.
00:25:38.400 I have that, actually.
00:25:40.260 Yeah.
00:25:41.020 Wow.
00:25:42.160 Beyond the official Little House products, there is so much in our world that seems to
00:25:46.200 be influenced by Laura.
00:25:47.340 Her DNA exists in brands all over our social media feeds and in the real world.
00:25:53.640 I fall for it all the time.
00:25:55.940 And maybe you do too.
00:25:57.720 I bring this up to Glynnis a lot.
00:26:00.180 A lot, a lot.
00:26:03.120 So now I want to talk about things inspired by the prairie aesthetic.
00:26:09.180 And so I'm thinking the pioneer woman.
00:26:13.020 Do you remember her?
00:26:13.900 Reed Drummond?
00:26:14.640 Oh yeah.
00:26:15.180 Yeah.
00:26:15.620 Yeah. Her net worth is, according to the internet, something like $50 million. She has built a TV
00:26:23.400 show, a magazine, a massively successful digital empire based off her prairie life,
00:26:31.380 which I would argue is a direct continuation influenced by Laura Ingalls Wilder.
00:26:37.000 I mean, absolutely. It's hard to see how it's not. Yeah.
00:26:41.420 And then you have things like the American Girl dolls, Kirsten, the prairie. She was my American Girl doll, my first American Girl doll, and her life on the prairie. Again, not directly based on Laura's life, but definitely influenced by the prairie nostalgia that is in these books.
00:27:05.820 And more recently, you've got the nap dress phenomenon.
00:27:10.340 Nap dresses and cottagecore.
00:27:12.720 And you know what nap dresses are?
00:27:14.480 They're just nightgowns.
00:27:16.440 They're just nightgowns.
00:27:17.840 And like these mommy prairie dresses that spiked in popularity on social media in the past few years, which I have nine of.
00:27:24.920 Nine of them.
00:27:27.040 Yeah.
00:27:27.780 I looked in my closet and I have been suckered into buying nine, nine of these.
00:27:35.040 What's the appeal of them? You tell me what's the appeal there.
00:27:38.340 I don't know, because I've been influenced by Cottagecore on social media,
00:27:42.060 and it makes me feel like a beautiful lady running through the prairie.
00:27:47.180 And I'm not the only one.
00:27:50.300 I talked to social media and branding expert Stephanie McNeil about the fact that during the pandemic,
00:27:55.960 Hill House Nap Dresses, Hill House is the big nap dress company,
00:27:59.800 were selling over a million in inventory in something like 12 minutes.
00:28:05.040 Hill House is really interesting because the nap dress is a very kind of cottagecore look.
00:28:12.220 They're definitely capitalizing on it.
00:28:15.120 That's the author and reporter Stephanie McNeil. 0.95
00:28:17.840 She covers influencing, branding, and marketing on social media.
00:28:21.300 I called her up because I wanted to run the theory by her that cottagecore is fueled by a longing for a simpler, cozy time just like life on the prairie.
00:28:30.460 I could definitely see that.
00:28:31.600 I think it's also this idea of unbridled femininity, which I think you see a lot in
00:28:38.820 Cottagecore as well, where this embrace of a time where women could be very frilly and
00:28:45.500 dressed up.
00:28:46.880 Stephanie has a few theories on why these trends persist.
00:28:50.220 It's never just one thing.
00:28:51.720 I think that kind of is behind a lot of these trends that are based around identity and
00:28:57.520 personal style and lifestyle is I think people are really just looking for connection. And I
00:29:03.240 think sometimes it's easier to be, I'm going to go in on a cottagecore and connect with people
00:29:08.540 online who are really into cottagecore than it is to, I don't know, go to a gym class and find a
00:29:13.740 friend. Again, we circle back to the idea that these prairie-inspired trends are just a longing
00:29:20.180 for a perceived simpler time, a false nostalgia and a desire for connection in an over-connected
00:29:26.980 world. But you all know from listening to this podcast that Laura's life wasn't actually that
00:29:32.660 simple. Her family lived in poverty. She experienced so much trauma as a child. Her
00:29:38.660 ode to a simple, happy, cozy life is mostly fiction. But that fiction continues on social
00:29:45.920 media today. Often, you know, you look at these accounts and it's moralizing and prioritizing
00:29:54.200 a type of simplicity that is actually quite expensive and quite inaccessible to most of us.
00:30:00.880 That's Sarah Peterson, another expert in social media marketing and branding and the author of
00:30:04.980 the book Momfluenced. I think the construction of this imagery is really interesting because often
00:30:13.640 it requires quite a bit of money and quite a bit of aesthetic investment. But it's always done in
00:30:19.720 this like, oh, it just happened to be like this. And I'm not putting a lot of effort in. Effort
00:30:23.720 seems to be at odds with the performance of this type of pioneer femininity. 1.00
00:30:28.880 Sarah's right. These products are expensive, and it takes a lot of disposable income to be able to 0.99
00:30:35.180 afford $100-plus prairie dresses and all the sourdough starters, pots, and mugs that influencers
00:30:40.940 and cottagecore companies are selling to us these days. And I think it's worth taking a second to
00:30:46.220 think about exactly what we're buying into. What is this sphere of influence? What are we trying to
00:30:52.920 achieve with all of this stuff? I think the prairie chic aesthetic is so big on Instagram,
00:31:01.180 particularly for momflencers, because it taps in to our cultural understanding of mothers as being
00:31:10.140 connected to the divine feminine, as being connected to the earth, being connected to
00:31:17.900 domestic spaces. I really think this prairie, you know, nostalgic aesthetic directly taps into
00:31:26.800 our cultural construction of the ideal American mother in a way that makes for, you know, big
00:31:34.000 business. I can't stop thinking about this, about what makes the ideal American mother,
00:31:42.860 the ideal American woman, how dresses and mugs and the collection of all of these trappings of
00:31:49.440 prairie life play into our desire to buy our way into being more complete and happy women.
00:31:55.800 There's a lot of brands these days that are working to create a place for women to figure out
00:32:00.340 how to be in the world. And one of those is actually called Modern Prairie. And it was
00:32:07.060 created by TV Laura Melissa Gilbert herself. 0.97
00:32:11.480 Who better to encapsulate all the sides of Laura's influence
00:32:15.100 than the woman that played her as a little girl?
00:32:18.760 Modern Prairie does sell a lot of stuff that we've been talking about. 0.90
00:32:22.520 But it also promotes healthy ideas for how to live in the world as a mature woman.
00:32:27.840 Something that the world doesn't always recognize as valuable.
00:32:31.900 It's genuinely a very unique take on the Prairie lifestyle brand.
00:32:35.480 But I've got to say, its beginnings are very similar to the other brands we've talked about.
00:32:40.800 Like we've seen time and time again, Melissa felt drawn to the ideals of Little House during the pandemic.
00:32:47.660 I think we all really rediscovered cozy during lockdown, too.
00:32:51.740 Just before 2020, Melissa and her husband Tim bought a cabin in the Catskills and renovated it into their permanent home.
00:32:58.180 In her memoir about that time, Back to the Prairie, she recounts the joy she felt in letting go of the life that she'd built in L.A.
00:33:05.480 She let her hair go gray, she took joy in cooking and gardening, and essentially rediscovered
00:33:11.480 herself in this genuinely simpler life.
00:33:15.100 When she founded Modern Prairie, she wanted to capture this simplicity for others.
00:33:18.940 I think Modern Prairie is a space to remind people of that cozy, basic, homey, warm, those
00:33:29.580 nostalgic feelings brought up to the current times.
00:33:35.480 The initial idea for the brand started with just one product.
00:33:39.020 I have had this sort of little patchling of an idea for a couple decades that there is something more to do with just the entire sort of prairie ethos.
00:33:53.400 It all for me starts with, of all objects, the Butterbell.
00:33:56.980 It's a ceramic holder for butter.
00:33:59.180 You put the butter in it, and you put it in the crock, and you put it upside down in water,
00:34:03.320 and it keeps your butter fresh and soft without having to refrigerate it.
00:34:08.580 And I always thought, let's create something around a butter bell and go from there
00:34:13.100 and take us back to these sweet, simple things, which really are the best things after all.
00:34:19.060 Just full-on Laura Ingalls Wilder celebration.
00:34:23.180 Modern Prairie now sells that butter bell for $49.50, plus so many other things.
00:34:28.260 Go on their website. There's backyard rooster quilted placemats, a Modern Prairie iron stone-handled one-gallon crock, pot mitts, a set of farmhouse aprons, pinafore aprons, tablecloths, and my personal favorite, the deep dish baking pan.
00:34:44.260 But what feels special about Modern Prairie is that they provide more than just products. They're actually creating that sense of community that so many women online are looking for.
00:34:52.460 It's a place for, obviously, women over a certain age, the mature women like me.
00:35:00.560 And it's not just about buying things.
00:35:03.020 It's now grown into a community.
00:35:05.540 And we have all these workshops and everything from, you know, how to paint with watercolor to how to deal with grief during the holidays to how to get unstuck, which is a big thing with women over a certain age.
00:35:19.620 You know, their kids are gone.
00:35:21.100 And we're reassessing what we want to do with this last third of our lives.
00:35:25.740 All of these things that we're dealing with at this part in our lives, there's no space for a community for people to talk about these things.
00:35:32.280 So we created this space with these workshops.
00:35:35.500 And that's kind of the heart of Prairie for me is the community aspect.
00:35:42.140 I love being older because I don't feel like I can do something.
00:35:45.800 I can sit at home and learn something.
00:35:51.100 What I think is so interesting is that almost everyone we spoke to in this cottagecore, prairie life world seems to be striving for a simpler life.
00:36:03.160 The people that are making it, the people that are buying it, everyone is trying to get to something simpler through commodification.
00:36:13.600 Yeah, it's a strive for simplicity and also self-sufficiency in a world where neither of these things really exist.
00:36:24.220 And I think, are we all so miserable and overconnected and overworked that we'll pay for simplicity?
00:36:31.600 This feels like a big joke that capitalism is playing on us, by the way, because I think the answer is yes.
00:36:36.920 Absolutely. But I also think this desire to get back to the simpler life, which is so well represented by Little House on the Prairie, is not a recent phenomenon. I'm just thinking of those old commercials we found from the 80s being like, come home, come home to the simpler life.
00:36:53.900 Like, there's always this fantasy around getting back to this simple life, which, as we know, never existed, right?
00:37:04.100 Like, they did not have a simple, easy life.
00:37:05.880 They had a terrible, hard life.
00:37:07.680 All of the people who actually lived in this time period would kill to live in our time period with antibiotics and electricity.
00:37:13.340 But, like, the fantasy of that is so pervasive.
00:37:16.940 So pervasive.
00:37:17.880 It's so pervasive that people will pay, you know, $50 plus for a Butterbell or $300 for a prairie dress that is essentially a nightgown.
00:37:29.020 And there are entire stores in Brooklyn that just sell things that look like they could have been on the prairie.
00:37:36.360 And also, I kept thinking about how everyone wants to use Laura as a gateway to something else, as a gateway to simplicity, as a gateway to community.
00:37:50.560 And it reminded me that it's always bigger than Laura, the human being.
00:37:56.800 It's bigger than these prairie stories.
00:37:59.300 It taps into our very humanity, what we desire, what we're hungry for.
00:38:06.360 And as this episode showed, what people are willing to pay for those things.
00:38:12.940 Yeah. Pay for a sense of community and safety and coziness and simplicity.
00:38:17.880 And maybe you too can make a doll out of straw and have just like a direct connection to sustainability.
00:38:26.400 I'm going to open my own Etsy shop after this episode.
00:38:29.340 Don't worry, I'll check in with the friendlies and make sure that it's kosher.
00:38:32.400 And I'm going to make some pig platter toys.
00:38:34.580 Yes. Yeah.
00:38:35.500 We're going to make so much money.
00:38:38.760 I mean, in this episode, we've come up with our own business ideas.
00:38:43.080 So listen, it's never ending.
00:38:44.760 It's never ending.
00:38:45.620 It's never ending.
00:38:48.800 If this episode has taught us anything, it's that Laura is everywhere.
00:38:54.260 She's ever present.
00:38:56.020 No matter what form she happens to be in, Laura is going to stick around for a very, very long time.
00:39:03.000 In fact, I can't wait to see what AI Laura does.
00:39:05.500 Now that is a business idea.
00:39:12.040 Wilder is written and hosted by me and Glynis McNichol.
00:39:16.540 Our story editors are me and Emily Marinoff.
00:39:20.480 Our senior producer is Emily Marinoff.
00:39:23.300 Our producers are Mary Du, Sheena Ozaki, and Jessica Kreinchich.
00:39:27.880 Our associate producer is Lauren Fillon.
00:39:30.220 Sound design and mixing by Amanda Rose Smith.
00:39:32.720 And our theme and additional music was composed by Elyse McCoy.
00:39:37.780 We are executive produced by Glynis McNichol, Nikki Itor, Allie Perry, and me.
00:39:43.660 If you're enjoying Wilder, please consider rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcasts.
00:39:48.160 It actually helps us out quite a lot.
00:39:50.280 And remember, you too are an influencer.
00:39:53.880 Special thanks for this episode goes to the Friendly Family, Melissa Gilbert, Stephanie McNeil, and Sarah Peterson.
00:40:01.220 Check out our show notes if you want to know more about the people we interviewed,
00:40:04.500 the places we visited, and the books that we mentioned.
00:40:07.380 You can also find our contact info there if you want to write to us with your own thoughts and questions.
00:40:12.780 We're going to be including listener responses in our final episode,
00:40:16.000 so if you have thoughts on the Little House series or on this series,
00:40:20.320 please send a voice memo to wilderpodcast at gmail.com.
00:40:24.540 Follow us on Instagram and TikTok.
00:40:26.780 Influence, influence, influence.
00:40:28.820 We will be posting all of the behind-the-scenes footage from our travels,
00:40:32.360 and you really don't want to miss it.
00:40:34.260 Thanks for listening.
00:40:35.980 Talk to you next week.
00:40:46.100 Hold on, I'm looking. 1.00
00:40:47.560 Pig's bladder lampshade! 0.99
00:40:49.080 Pig's bladder lampshade. 0.99
00:40:52.220 Mm-hmm. 0.83
00:40:52.700 If you go on Etsy and put in Prairie and Laura Ingalls Wilder,
00:40:57.680 you like it's it's an extravaganza my friends it's an extravaganza pig splatter lampshade
00:41:06.340 pig splatter lampshade 0.57