Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Can a Poem Have a Punchline？ With @MaryOliversDrunkCousin

00:00:00.000 Hey all! Joe here, and you are listening to Under the Influence.

00:00:11.340 Now, if you're a fan of this show, you know that for a long time, I was not a fan of poetry.

00:00:18.340 And it turns out, I was just reading the wrong poets. I was just reading a bunch of old dead

00:00:23.480 white men, when really, really, I wanted to hear from poets who were women very much like myself.

00:00:31.940 Does that make me self-indulgent? Probably. Do I care? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

00:00:38.420 So I rave on this show a lot about how much I love Kate Baer. We've had her on. We should have

00:00:45.320 her on again. She's a delight. But there's another poet who I discovered on Instagram,

00:00:49.420 who I adore, who has their very first collection of poetry out in a book.

00:00:54.340 If you're not following at Mary Oliver's Junk Cousin, I don't know what you're doing with your

00:00:59.500 life, okay? But Lindsay Rush's poems are so good that they just crawl under my skin and pretty much

00:01:06.760 live there. I'm going to read you one from her new book. The book is called A Bit Much,

00:01:11.740 and this poem is called Hysterical.

00:01:16.880 I'm going off the deep end.

00:01:19.240 Anyone want anything?

00:01:20.640 I'm in the market for some deep, cleansing screams.

00:01:24.740 A few meditative complaints.

00:01:26.580 A mantra or two made up entirely of curse words.

00:01:30.480 Did they make a rage spiral-scented essential oil?

00:01:33.720 How about a worst-case scenario flavored herbal tea?

00:01:37.440 Sounds delicious and insane.

00:01:40.040 Pour me a double.

00:01:41.740 I crank up my Unhinged Hits playlist and relax into my hissy fit.

00:01:46.940 If anyone needs me for the next two hours, I'll be just down the road, losing my mind.

00:01:54.300 This episode's a real fun one.

00:01:55.980 My favorite thing is that we have a very intense discussion of how unfair it is that after the age of 40,

00:02:01.640 it's pretty much impossible to do back walkovers anymore,

00:02:04.660 and I just think that is one of the grand indignities of life and aging that no one talks enough about.

00:02:11.740 part of me actually does just want to call you mary oliver's drunk cousin

00:02:21.480 does that happen a lot you know i i had my well that's not my first but one of my

00:02:28.680 first like in public someone came up to me and said are you mary oliver's drunk cousin

00:02:34.260 theater. And I was coming off of an early morning flight with my toddler and my husband. So I was

00:02:42.300 like a wreck. Yeah. So you looked good. I looked awesome. I was walking wounded. And I said, yes.

00:02:48.740 And she was so sweet and fast. And she was just like rolling her bag and she goes, thank you for

00:02:52.760 your service. And she kept going. It's like the most perfect. Like she didn't want to like, you

00:02:57.800 know, I'm sure she saw that I was in. Yeah. In peril. Yeah. Yeah. That is also perfect. And that's

00:03:03.740 how i want to address every celebrity that i see from now on um because you know the pretending

00:03:09.420 they don't exist is weird um that can also be awkward because we all know what's happening

00:03:13.920 and then just fawning over someone is weird like i want to walk by meryl streep on the street

00:03:18.920 and just be like thank you for your service um

00:03:21.420 mary girl thanks for your service and then just like rollerblade right on by in my in my fantasy

00:03:29.940 I'm on rollerblades for some reason and I don't know why in my fantasy of those type of interactions

00:03:34.600 I'm always and I can't do this anymore I'm always doing a back walkover away from the situation

00:03:38.300 because I just think that'd be the very fun way to exit thank you for your service and Meryl Streep

00:03:42.320 is just like did she just did she just do a back walkover there's that a back bend I can't do it I

00:03:48.960 can't do one anymore I can't I used to I could do one until fairly recently to be honest like I think

00:03:54.500 I could do one up until about 40. And now just the thought of it, I'm like, your back will break

00:04:00.140 and your head will everything. Oh my God. Why would you even think about that? Is this something

00:04:05.720 no one's talking about, about turning 40? Is that you can no longer back walkover? No longer back

00:04:11.540 walkover for you. That is a major loss. And you know what? I think we're going to break that news

00:04:15.680 this week. That's what we're going to do. We're going to break that news. If you're listening

00:04:18.340 and you're not 40 yet just start doing back walkovers as much as you can as much you need

00:04:24.980 to see a resurgence you know nature is healing let's see a bunch of like 38 39 year olds especially

00:04:30.900 you know right right up until the do your back walkovers people do them do them and we're always

00:04:37.300 saying that we are always yes well because i some of my advice to my my younger cohort is you should

00:04:44.960 be naked all the time you look amazing like all of the nakedness bring on all of your nakedness

00:04:50.760 um also do the back walkovers preferably naked i guess yeah maybe both why not both why not both 0.83

00:04:56.420 at the same time exactly exactly well i i just dove it right into your instagram account but i

00:05:01.580 am loving your new book a bit much it's it's gorgeous and the poems are they just they're a

00:05:10.220 gut punch uh which is what i need poems to be to be honest because i am not a poetry person

00:05:18.300 per se okay and i say this all the time um i told kate bear this in fact i told kate bear

00:05:25.260 that she made me a poetry person she converted a lot of us she converted a lot of us um and so

00:05:35.760 yours like I just want to I want a poem to be like oh that's you see me girl that's my life

00:05:41.820 yes yes and that's what I feel about everything in a bit much but how did we get here how did we

00:05:48.680 get to this book from the Instagram account and how did we even get to an Instagram account

00:05:53.540 called Mary Oliver's Drunk Cousin yes you know it's sort of I sort of back walk over my way into

00:06:00.380 this it was uh it was a bit of an internet experiment in the sense sort of towards the

00:06:07.840 tail end of quarantine of covid uh yes when we were all back walk overing into new things which

00:06:13.580 sort of back walk overing into different hobbies and this one stuck um and i just was experimenting

00:06:22.040 with the form because i had a lot of time on my hands and i had a lot of emotions um both of which

00:06:27.720 were not new actually, since I've almost always worked for myself and I have lived alone for a

00:06:32.680 long time. And we were talking before we, I think, started recording about losing. I really had a

00:06:39.260 lot of years of empty headedness. Yeah. Most of my 30s, I was single, living alone and working

00:06:44.380 for myself. Same, same, same. And so I was just like, it doesn't matter. I don't know what time

00:06:49.660 it is. I don't know what day it is. I'm making my own rules and I have just lots of time to stare

00:06:56.160 into space or start crazy you know crazy start crazy ventures and weird shit yeah yes and then

00:07:04.240 just be like oh maybe not that or maybe this or like no one was there were very few people impacted

00:07:09.400 by my life choices which was just lovely so nice so nice yeah so when i started this i was um

00:07:21.300 dating long distance dating my now husband so i still had a lot i was still living on a lot of

00:07:27.440 time and i was visiting this is when everything started opening back up i visited his hometown

00:07:35.320 for the first time oh where's he from he's from alabama and i'm from minnesota okay and okay was

00:07:42.960 living in chicago at the time spent most of my adulthood in chicago so i'm from the north he's

00:07:46.520 from the south that's tales all this time it really is a fun fact alabama is the last state

00:07:52.160 that my husband hasn't been to he's been to 49 of 50 states so we're playing we need to plan a trip

00:07:56.480 oh my gosh my little sister is only has three states left as well and one of hers is alabama

00:08:02.640 and we were just actually in gulf shores alabama at the beach and it's gorgeous it's gorgeous if

00:08:08.380 he wants to yeah i was thinking maybe gulf shores for spring break could be nice um and then it's

00:08:14.120 Much more quiet than, you know, like Panama City Beach or Destin or 38 or a lot of the, like, Rosemary Beach, all of that.

00:08:21.060 And it's just as pretty, but then I would say not as fancy.

00:08:26.960 But you're going to get a lot of, like, if your kids are in—

00:08:29.160 We're not fancy people.

00:08:30.000 We're not fancy people, so that's okay.

00:08:31.360 There's so much for kids that are in, like, elementary age and middle school.

00:08:35.360 Like, they'll love it.

00:08:36.560 Yeah.

00:08:36.960 Yeah.

00:08:37.200 No, that sounds great.

00:08:38.120 We're also looking at Space Camp, so.

00:08:40.860 Oh, right.

00:08:41.400 Of course.

00:08:42.100 Yeah.

00:08:42.460 Huntsville.

00:08:43.200 Yeah.

00:08:43.540 Space camp feels like the type of thing we all dreamed of in the same way that we dreamed

00:08:47.520 of being marine biologists.

00:08:49.120 Yep.

00:08:49.400 It was like, I'm going to check, check, check.

00:08:51.980 Check, check, check.

00:08:52.720 Yeah.

00:08:52.960 Yeah.

00:08:53.080 But I'm like, if I could actually make that happen, like for my, not for my kids, really,

00:08:56.980 for my adult self, for me.

00:08:58.320 Yeah.

00:08:58.500 I was like, who's asking for space camp?

00:09:00.060 Are your children?

00:09:00.760 No.

00:09:00.960 Are you like, have you guys heard of space camp?

00:09:02.900 And they're like, what?

00:09:04.380 Absolutely not.

00:09:05.140 That sounds terrible.

00:09:06.240 That sounds like a terrible vacation, actually.

00:09:08.360 And you're like, uh, but zero gravity?

00:09:10.640 Zero gravity.

00:09:11.300 They're like, oh, gross.

00:09:12.860 Yeah.

00:09:13.300 we just want to go to the pool we just want to go to a beach just want to go to a beach

00:09:18.240 yeah which is pretty much what they say with all of my wild vacations i'm like let's go to rome and

00:09:22.740 they're like how about the howard johnson with an indoor pool mom can we go to great wolf lodge

00:09:28.160 yes we just want to that's all we want we want a water side in the pool i completely interrupted

00:09:32.540 you all right so you're long distance you're on distance with yes alabama yes so i am in alabama

00:09:37.960 and he's from this tiny town and I'm having this culture shock. And also I was taking a shower in

00:09:45.460 the bathroom that he like grew up. Like it had the same, it had these little lighthouses on the

00:09:49.780 wallpaper. And I was just like, it was just so many emotions. I was like, my Caleb was a little

00:09:56.100 kid taking a bath in this bathroom. Like I, it just is such a different way than my family moved

00:10:00.900 around a lot. We traveled a lot. It just was, we have come from totally different families and

00:10:06.400 places anyway and so i just like this poem wrote itself in my brain and it's in the book it's

00:10:11.940 called my boyfriend is from alabama and i purposely barely changed anything from that poem including

00:10:17.300 the title which at the time i was just like blah blah blah um because it's so precious to me because

00:10:21.880 the first time i wrote in this genre in that form and then i just kept going and so then i started

00:10:28.940 i shared a few on my personal instagram account and that just started to feel like

00:10:33.240 I don't you know it's like my aunt is on there and my cousins and old high school friends it just

00:10:38.140 felt like maybe the project or the experiment needed its own place to explore and like an

00:10:45.480 own audience to sort of some separation from me and then I came up with the handle because

00:10:53.260 of the handful of stuff I had written at that point I was just sort of I'm in marketing and

00:10:58.860 branding. And one of the, you know, tried and true tactics is to, you know, help people compare

00:11:05.160 yourself to something that people are familiar with. And so Mary Oliver is an icon and she's,

00:11:10.580 you know, known for her, you know, detailed observations and her astonishment and her like

00:11:15.900 adding meaning to things you might otherwise overlook. But with her, it's all these, you know,

00:11:21.420 cool birds and nature and that mine is uh chips and yes you know iced coffee the things I care

00:11:30.700 about frankly yes the thing my passions and so I was like I I hope to do what she does but just in

00:11:38.840 my own way and so that's why I came up with Mary Oliver's drunk cousin and the backup handle was

00:11:44.240 going to be dollar store Mary Oliver oh and I just I know they're both great and I don't typically

00:11:49.760 think in my comedy I don't think I try to avoid alcohol and bathroom humor because I feel like

00:11:57.320 they're just low-hanging fruit yeah but for some reason the and so I was like but I was like a

00:12:02.360 drunk cousin is just so visceral and it really catches your catches your eye and then I think

00:12:08.480 that helped people who started following me sort of know what they were in for yes and then I

00:12:15.140 Yes. Kept writing and I would post, I think almost every morning, Monday through Friday.

00:12:23.260 I just I was like pouring out of me. I would take old Twitter jokes of mine. I would take old

00:12:27.700 rejected satire headlines. And I would just I would just be like, what? How can I add more

00:12:34.560 meaning to this funny truth and flesh it out and do wordplay? And how do I could can a poem have a

00:12:41.400 punchline i just started playing can a poem have a punchline oh i think we just came up i think we

00:12:48.980 just came up with the title of the uh podcast thank you very much for that i think um that

00:12:54.320 i've been asked if i have any writing rules i feel like i'm like just yammering i've had in

00:12:59.500 my defense i've had two cold brews and it's not it's noon because my child is teething and did

00:13:04.980 not sleep oh my god teething it's so all right you said you said that they're one right yeah he's

00:13:10.200 14 months yeah that's rough that's rough that is that's gonna be some sleepless sleepless nights

00:13:15.200 for you we are molar molar yeah oh molars they're so big yeah we're about to take away we're about

00:13:22.320 to take away the pacifier from the almost two-year-old and she's gonna act like we're

00:13:26.960 murdering her we're like we have we have to have a whole plan like we have to prep ourselves

00:13:30.440 i had my doctor prescribe me some ambien like we have a whole structure for when when and how 0.98

00:13:36.540 this is going to happen so i'm with you girl this sucks are you doing that that thing that everyone 0.99

00:13:41.740 posts online of like we're gonna have a funeral for the pacifier or like no because that's dumb 0.97

00:13:46.900 that's dumb yeah um i mean i'm not there yet but i was like is that i'm also i mean i'm i'm i try 0.99

00:13:56.300 to be a judgment-free zone on this podcast but that's the stupidest thing i've ever fucking heard 0.97

00:14:00.600 um no said no because that just seems dumb we're not going to also she's two and um 0.99

00:14:09.700 i think that ascribing ascribing actual death to inanimate objects leads you down a really

00:14:16.260 uncomfortable path like it's like hey toddler this is a funeral let me back up death is this

00:14:22.980 is what death life is you are like like where do you even begin to make that make sense yeah we're

00:14:28.500 just gonna pretend that it's gone forever so is that what they say just like it's like cold turkey

00:14:33.940 uh-huh can't find it yeah it's just it's gone i mean she also like you know an almost two-year-old

00:14:38.780 is cognizant and she can tell us what she wants she sounds like a muppet but she can tell us

00:14:45.780 things and so i think she understands things but not much not most things i think it's just it's

00:14:52.600 just gone it's just yeah gone we're sort of at that we're trying to phase out the bottle and yeah

00:15:01.080 yeah yeah have milk be in a straw instead yeah and we just now realized because he likes food and

00:15:06.140 he's like i i refer everything to um like pets i keep calling it people food he likes oh yeah i

00:15:12.360 know he's a person he likes real food um but we realized he's the bottles are like in a thing out

00:15:18.800 on the counter and if he sees it he's like let's do it i want that oh yeah she can never see it

00:15:24.100 ever again they have to be gone forever yeah she's gonna see it on some other kid and freak out

00:15:30.440 maybe maybe and we're just gonna i mean you know the best thing about having three of them is that

00:15:34.940 you're just like scream go for it yeah i've heard this before the other ones are alive i've heard

00:15:40.940 this song before yeah i don't feel this in my soul the way that i did with the first one yeah

00:15:47.460 you're gonna be okay um so yeah you know you're totally you're making all of the sense i have had

00:15:51.800 no coffee yet today i know it's weird is that typical for you are you no coffee i've been

00:15:57.740 having less i've been having less coffee lately um well no because my sleep is so shitty my sleep

00:16:05.520 is bad and so my doctor's like maybe quit coffee and i'm like that's dumb again like i'm not gonna

00:16:11.360 have a funeral for a pacifier nor would i quit coffee and they're like well you know coffee is

00:16:16.680 the thing that keeps you awake and i'm like i don't believe you and since going off coffee i'm

00:16:20.860 like oh they hate when they're light i hate it water same with water oh yeah i'm like whatever

00:16:27.980 i don't need any water i'm like well i feel amazing it have you guys heard of this we've

00:16:33.900 heard of water for us i know yeah so so yeah so i'm i feel like i'm rambling because i'm just like

00:16:40.780 half awake most of the time at once oh great wow well that's good all right you know what

00:16:46.300 I'm going to, I'm going to create a fake break anyway. All right, let's take a quick break. And

00:16:51.180 when we get, when we get back, I want to talk a little bit more about the account because I'm

00:16:55.180 always fascinated by how things end up getting so much attention, right? And you're in marketing

00:17:00.580 and branding. So you get this, like you understand this fascination. Okay, we are back. So you start

00:17:11.520 this Instagram account with the greatest name of all time. I mean, it really is because

00:17:15.100 I do think that the vision of a drunk cousin is very visceral. I've been the drunk cousin

00:17:20.660 for many a year. Many a year I was the drunk cousin. And it's funny, actually, because when

00:17:25.620 I was doing the Sicilian Inheritance podcast, I had to interview a lot of older relatives

00:17:30.180 who hadn't seen me since like my cousin Adrian's wedding 20 years ago. And they're like,

00:17:35.980 joe maybe you shouldn't drink so much and i'm like i have three kids now

00:17:40.220 uncle vince and yeah maybe i did black out and make out with the most inappropriate person at

00:17:47.780 the wedding but that was a long time ago and i'm doing okay now so quit your judgment people invite

00:17:53.280 me to wedding and that's why i get to keep going to weddings so i was the drunk cousin for years

00:17:57.500 so I really I really I often think if you if you think you don't if you're like I don't have a

00:18:06.220 drunk cousin then you are the drunk cousin then you are the drunk cousin you are 100%

00:18:09.460 absolutely absolutely um I mean yeah I mean since since it's not me anymore I don't think we have 0.99

00:18:16.840 one maybe that means it's still me shit I should I should start making people name their drunkest 0.96

00:18:21.940 cousins on all name your name your drunkest cousin please yes name them call them out call them out 0.63

00:18:27.040 call him out but i mean this took off and i think it took off because it's so relatable and these

00:18:32.160 poems people love them and they've been read at weddings they've been read at you know friendship

00:18:41.260 retreat pacifier funeral pacifier i'm actually going to read read one i'm going to well while

00:18:45.820 you talk i'm going to pick what i'm going to read at my non-pacifier funeral um so why do you think

00:18:55.060 it hit such a chord why do you think that we needed this this dose of just realness I don't

00:19:02.580 know why I said realness like that realness realness I think it was it's usually in part

00:19:12.660 being at the right place at the right time I think a lot of that is important for people online to

00:19:16.580 remember that so much of it is just chance and luck and that kind of thing um but i do think

00:19:26.380 so the the poem that sort of caught i was gonna say caught fire but i'd like hate that but like

00:19:33.960 made that sort of things started catching on um the first poem to go viral was called she's a bit

00:19:41.680 much, which is what the book is named after. And I think, so with that poem, it was the first time

00:19:49.780 I had taken a phrase that, you know, typically is intended to diminish women specifically or

00:19:57.740 keep people small and is intended as an insult. And I turned it on its head and, you know, list

00:20:03.740 a bunch of things that are a bit much that are pretty universally beloved. And, and I think,

00:20:10.660 and the poem before that that had done well but didn't catch like celebrity attention or whatever

00:20:14.620 that like made it go megaviral was called it's called maximalism babe and it was about the same

00:20:19.100 idea of basically being your entire self and unapologetically which is not a new concept

00:20:26.220 so in part i don't know why it caught on the way that it did but it felt maybe like a certain

00:20:33.580 age group of women were ready to give themselves permission to to stop having to play a certain

00:20:43.660 role or blend in or that kind of thing it just or maybe that's just the specific audience that

00:20:47.880 really gravitated towards my work and i think it was also this age i think well first of all my

00:20:54.060 instagram is 97 women which i adore we're trying to get that closer to 100 cheers to those three

00:21:00.340 dudes uh what's up bros what's up bros hey it's like oh you know what they're probably the same

00:21:06.460 three dudes who listen to my podcast um guys we're so glad you're here so thank you thank

00:21:11.380 you for your service back walk over um but it's also this i think the age range that is the bulk

00:21:19.920 of it is probably 28 to 45 let's say and so i think that also we you know experienced diet

00:21:30.160 culture in a very specific way we experienced being online and social media and and and the

00:21:36.040 idea of aging and leaning it we just like i feel leaning in leaning in and there's just so many

00:21:43.920 expectations it's like be a girl boss but don't be bossy like get preventative botox but age

00:21:50.300 gracefully there's just so many i think conflicting messages and to me something that came up on the

00:21:57.080 little mini book tour we did for this was the idea of we're just tired we're tired of

00:22:03.460 self-improvement because the message the you know the marketing of the self-improvement is usually

00:22:10.480 be smaller be less like be more subtle and i think there are just a lot of people who are like but

00:22:17.540 what if i just want to let my freak flag fly what if i'm just me what if i'm just me yeah what if

00:22:25.420 what if so yeah yeah i mean i i love that one and i get it i get why it resonated so much

00:22:34.420 and i think part of it has to do with you and as you said part of it has to do with a moment

00:22:40.220 because i do think that and again i'm like i'm like we're the same age i've reached the age my

00:22:46.240 favorite age which is where you think everyone is your age by the way um i'm like i'm like we're

00:22:50.840 the same age right yeah i've been thinking that since i was i think since i was like 36 which also

00:22:55.760 is the age i still think that's about when i stopped i'm like we're all we're all right like

00:23:01.560 we're all late 30s late 30s yeah so i'm like um and so i mean i'm 44 now but uh like i so i said

00:23:08.060 i said it the other day and this someone i mean they were like clearly like 29 we are not the

00:23:12.260 same age i'm like whatever like shut up yes we are too bad for you too bad for you you're still 0.89

00:23:19.220 the drunk cousin at weddings um and i'll bet you can do a back walkover at a wedding that's yeah 0.96

00:23:26.900 they win on that one they win on that one my favorite back walkover story which did involve

00:23:32.400 um someone being very drunk is we were at there was this bar in new york city that was in a subway

00:23:38.960 station like on like around hell's kitchen and it was filthy like disgusting disgusting i think it

00:23:46.460 was called siberia i think um and we were there with none other than anthony bourdain and my

00:23:56.280 friend really wanted to impress anthony bourdain and she did a back walkover on the bar which ended

00:24:05.040 badly and that's tough it was tough for her it was tough for her but you know what it's i still

00:24:10.880 think about it 20-ish years later and I you know what Tony Bourdain noticed her he did he did I bet

00:24:19.720 he wanted to thank her for her service thank you for your service thank you for your service yeah

00:24:24.400 yeah that is that is absolutely beautiful so you know what comes to mind for me with the back walk

00:24:30.620 over the there's a scene in Broad City where Alana and her mom are buying fake handbags and she gets

00:24:38.880 a call she's really excited about and so puts the phone down i think it's maybe it's a comedy 0.75

00:24:43.080 it's actually a handstand onto a wall and then i can still do that and she shakes her butt yeah

00:24:48.480 yeah that that one front word stuff is that's something it's unsexy it's like yeah i yeah i

00:24:58.380 could i could do that for my kids right now and they'd be so unimpressed they'd be like whatever

00:25:02.380 every literally everyone can do that so what they're like wow a cartwheel we'll be able to

00:25:06.940 do that probably until our 50s 60s front stuff yeah front stuff just the front stuff

00:25:12.780 oh like when i tell like when i tell my husband that i'm gonna leave him and become a lesbian 1.00

00:25:19.080 i'm like but probably just top stuff probably just on the top because i think boobs are great 0.99

00:25:23.920 so this is just just for smooching this is just front stuff um i think we can do front stuff

00:25:30.600 probably till we're 50 so do all the cartwheels right now I did learn speaking of back stuff I

00:25:38.600 learned how to do a backflip off of a boat on my oh on my baby's first birthday and I wrote a poem

00:25:44.860 about it because of course you have to it was his first birthday he was with the nanny my family we

00:25:49.640 all went on a boat because I was like we're celebrating us as parents as well yes no no no

00:25:54.480 first birthday is for you yes yeah and so I had my nephews teach me how to do a backflip because

00:26:00.120 because a backflip is just scary like even though they say that it's easier because you have all

00:26:05.320 that momentum see and so it's so poetic now poems I just I see everything and I'm like oh my gosh

00:26:11.340 that that but that's what I want to ask you do you see the world in poems now

00:26:16.080 sort of and it's it's funny because and or I've always seen the world in jokes

00:26:24.320 and like what is funny about that and what's specific about that and now I feel like it's

00:26:32.400 that same skill than just like expounded upon or something but I do it feels like I see it a lot in

00:26:39.980 either like wordplay or metaphor that it's like okay that means that and the only thing I really

00:26:46.480 try to protect against is sounding like a youth pastor because I grew up in a very religious

00:26:51.460 Christian household where youth pastors would take anything and be like, you know, I swerved

00:26:57.440 in the car on the way here and like, the Lord wants you to stay straight and narrow. You know, 0.56

00:27:01.380 they could take anything stupid and make it seem like it was, you know, deep. And so that's 1.00

00:27:08.160 usually the inner critic in my head that is trying to keep me. Don't sound like a youth pastor.

00:27:12.760 Don't sound like a youth pastor. That's a good one though. That's, that's, yeah, yeah. Don't,

00:27:19.140 It's a fine line between Drunk Cousin and Youth Faster, though.

00:27:22.120 It is.

00:27:22.800 There's a lot more.

00:27:23.440 The Venn diagram of that is a lot more crossover than you'd think.

00:27:27.040 It sure, it really is.

00:27:28.640 It really is.

00:27:30.280 So everything, everything in the book, was everything in the book already created or

00:27:33.820 did you create new stuff for the book?

00:27:36.920 Each of the publishers who were interested in the book had different sort of terms they

00:27:42.820 were suggesting on how much of what percentage of the material needed to be new and what

00:27:46.760 percentage could be stuff from the Instagram um because obviously you have to give people a reason

00:27:52.900 to purchase a book getting content they can't just get for free on the internet yeah kind of

00:27:59.160 I think about that a lot actually I do because I'm also like I know that I can get most of Carol

00:28:05.540 Chambers recipes on her sub stack but I also want the cookbook right in front of me because I read

00:28:11.540 it in a different place and I'm gonna admit something right now and I'm not ashamed because

00:28:15.880 i'm not ashamed of much anymore but i read poetry in the i read poetry in the bathroom okay yes and

00:28:21.980 i like to i'm not gonna i'm well i do take my phone in the bathroom with me but i'd like to

00:28:26.600 read a book in the bathroom okay i'd like to read a whole book of poems in the bathroom just give me

00:28:30.980 something to hold yeah and i mean i do think i do think there are people because also it's very

00:28:36.080 instagram has no search functionality so it's not like you can no search for your fit like your

00:28:42.060 favorite or a certain one that um you want to read again I have people I used to have people

00:28:47.740 DMing all the time being like can you send me this once can you send me this and I'm like yeah

00:28:51.660 it's impossible that and it's it's tiny text on you know um so we had to I had 70 percent of this

00:28:59.620 book had to be new oh wow that's a lot that's almost that's almost too much I think I mean

00:29:04.420 just like to get done I'm like wow okay yeah it was it was a lot but I had as soon as we sold the

00:29:12.980 book I I start anything I was writing from then I kept in my back pocket because it was like don't

00:29:19.220 post like don't post anything that you're like I love love love this and that was that was the

00:29:25.820 most challenging part now I think in having a book out in writing the book and trying to maintain a

00:29:31.840 social a growing social media presence yeah they're now so so linked is like okay i'm supposed

00:29:38.740 to write new content to put on line to keep to get new followers to eventually buy the book

00:29:45.780 but i have to be writing stuff for the book that i can't to and then also using social media to

00:29:51.540 promote it just i mean you know it's so so much so much it's too much it's actually too much yes

00:29:58.380 yes more than a bit much it's too much it's more than it's yeah i mean i appreciate women who are

00:30:04.180 too much but i don't appreciate all of the work that goes into book creation to be honest how do

00:30:10.940 you i feel like so many people how are you still doing this for your job how are you writing i mean

00:30:17.080 every you should ask my husband because every time that i do this i complain so much and i say i'm

00:30:25.120 never ever doing it again um and then he laughs at me i mean now he just mocks me because it's

00:30:31.500 eight books and 10 years later um because the process the process is hellish i keep doing it

00:30:39.460 because i still make money from it to be honest um because it's still working and i'm hustling

00:30:46.600 harder than ever and i'm working my ass off harder than ever and i think that the world of publishing

00:30:51.880 in media is weirder than ever but people are still reading the books and i still get paid to 0.51

00:30:57.220 write the books and but sadly like when that stops which it could i will do something else

00:31:04.080 um because you know it is a business at the end of the day uh and if it if it stops working out

00:31:12.340 and people are like but you do it because you love it right i'm like i do love it and i'm super lucky

00:31:15.840 to get paid for it but like at the end of the day you have to pay your mortgage i did not marry um

00:31:20.800 you know a greek shipping air yet yet because you're gonna yeah when you have your second 1.00

00:31:27.720 lesbian era my tops my top only um yeah she's she's also she's also a greek shipping air is

00:31:35.880 what she is actually yeah totally um it's like everything i feel i feel this way because so

00:31:42.500 my like job job is in branding but i run the agency with my best friend so we take clients

00:31:48.180 We get to make our own rules, make our own hours. And it is it is the crux of the agency is around humor. So we get to write really funny, fun stuff. And I've been doing that. We've been doing that together eight years. And before that, I was a copywriter also working for myself. So and I love writing, obviously. I love being able to write things. But like a job is a job.

00:32:10.340 I don't like I would still write but not not to this degree like if I did not need money

00:32:18.500 and there are some people who like really do love their profession I just think they're less than

00:32:23.400 people think like yes yes I don't know what I would be doing if money was no issue I don't

00:32:29.300 know what I would be doing if money was no issue that is I mean I and I actually wonder what that

00:32:33.680 would be I would not be I can tell you I wouldn't be a full-time parent um that's not something I

00:32:38.940 would like to do um i am a much much much better parent when i have time away from my children

00:32:46.840 so um that's off the table i think i would just be a dilettante it's that i'm sure like i would

00:32:55.820 still write things but i think it would be a much more relaxed situation and like not having to

00:33:02.700 hustle those things and sell them so freaking hard would be amazing i mean there is a part of

00:33:07.080 me that really hates sally rooney okay um yeah because i just i read the one interview where

00:33:14.140 she's like i i'm just gonna be a person that creates and then someone else can sell the book

00:33:18.160 and i'm like that must be fucking nice okay that's what i was just gonna say is that if i had if money

00:33:22.480 was no object i would probably keep writing poetry and making books but i would anything i did it 0.52

00:33:29.840 would be outsource outsource outsource it would pay everyone to do everything that even is a tiny

00:33:36.100 bit annoying to me totally totally and so like i would i be on instagram no no not even a little

00:33:43.680 bit would i be on social media would i still make this podcast maybe because the best part about the 1.00

00:33:49.900 podcast is that i get to talk to cool ass bitches like you but i i also work in podcast there's so 1.00

00:33:57.800 much work in podcasting so this is what i think people i think anything that seems creative 0.99

00:34:04.060 is so undervalued because there is an element of expression and fun like yes I think in people

00:34:12.760 people who are not in a field like a tangential field like that are like oh you just get to talk

00:34:18.280 to other authors or other creators yeah and you're like so fun and then you like list all of the

00:34:24.660 things that go into putting even an episode out or you know like or books I think like I remember I

00:34:31.160 had do you know of lee stein on instagram she's like of course i've had her on the show i've had

00:34:36.760 her on the show yeah yeah i she was so pivotal for me and in helping me understand the industry

00:34:41.960 and like she like we had calls and one of the things she said is she was like in movies growing

00:34:47.280 up authors like could buy a house with their advances or like you're like authors could live

00:34:52.740 off of like a book and she was like she was like i just want to set your expectation that like this

00:34:59.020 it's not life-changing money at first and or unless x y and z you know yep all these different

00:35:05.540 things it's typically not and you know learning that most authors don't um what's it called when

00:35:13.600 you like earn out of their advance earn out earn out the advance yeah yeah yeah and so it's like

00:35:18.120 you just start to go and that was something so interesting for my husband and I to like look at

00:35:23.560 is okay if all the money we ever we but you know as a family yeah thank you if all i ever made

00:35:33.960 from these books were an advance every year and a half and that's generous that's generous because

00:35:42.000 yeah it's typically every two years if you're if you if you get on a good schedule right yes

00:35:48.800 Totally. And so, and then as we know, it's all paced out. So you're not getting a lump sum every

00:35:53.840 two years. So you're like having to go, is this actually, is this a salary that would replace

00:36:00.000 what I'm making at my agency? Is it supplemental? Then I'm at the, not that we have to get too

00:36:05.920 businessy, but I'm now at the place going, how can I monetize my Instagram so that I can still

00:36:13.180 share free content so I can have time because, and then in what ways would that feel good

00:36:20.480 for my audience and for me? And so you just, cause you're like, something's gotta,

00:36:25.940 there's just not enough time. There's not enough time. There's not enough time. And also

00:36:29.740 as human beings, we were never supposed to make this much content is this thing. Like I

00:36:35.800 think about nineties publishing all of the time, but like nineties magazine salaries, which,

00:36:42.540 and i'll talk about the money these people were making for like the editor at large jobs they're

00:36:48.740 making oh three hundred four hundred thousand dollars a year and they were not even going

00:36:52.580 into the office every day and then like once like every five years or so they'd get a book advance

00:36:58.120 for five hundred thousand dollars plus they'd expense their entire lives so back then yeah 0.96

00:37:03.300 they were buying their fucking hamptons homes and their like apartments and stuff and that doesn't i 0.86

00:37:08.660 mean that clearly doesn't exist anymore but it did it did like enough so like when i was alive 0.98

00:37:14.960 in the world um and now we're supposed to write like a dozen sub stacks a week and instagram

00:37:23.480 captions which are not nothing and then also a book and also an essay promoting our book and

00:37:29.600 yeah it's too much and also no one wants this much content man right we're gonna at some point

00:37:36.140 you go it's so saturated do people like what does anyone even need yes similarly a pressure a lot

00:37:44.040 I feel as you might I think any author feels this is to go okay well now teach it so now we have to

00:37:51.680 write it and then we have to know what we're doing what are we doing that is working yeah which is a

00:37:57.120 whole like doing and teaching are so different so different but it's like hey teach a workshop

00:38:02.160 on blah, blah, blah. And I think that is either a gift to be able to teach and impart is one,

00:38:10.140 a skill, of course, two, a gift, and three, not something everybody enjoys. And then you're also

00:38:17.420 then hustling to sell these workshops. And then you're hustling to sell the workshop, though.

00:38:21.720 And then you're also teaching. For me, it's always been like, I don't want, I have a poem in the book

00:38:26.700 called heck yes i have an mfa major freaking attitude and it's all about this because something

00:38:32.940 people tell me all the time is a great way to make money is do these workshops have communities 0.70

00:38:37.100 have writing things and i'm like that makes me want to die well it's one more thing one more

00:38:43.700 thing to sell like i'm i'm doing one um with glenis where so the thing the thing that i've

00:38:51.740 decided that I will do and this is because literally every writer that I know asks me this

00:38:57.700 and I'm like I should just put this in one place like this is the only like this is the real talent

00:39:01.940 that I can impart I don't want to teach a creating creative writing class because I don't know how I

00:39:06.260 do what the fuck I do like I kind of just like black out and write a book okay I can't I can't

00:39:12.060 teach that what I can teach is like the like nitty-gritty of selling your book once it's 0.99

00:39:18.820 already published. And it's like, this is what actually works. Like your profile in Vogue's

00:39:23.620 not going to get you anything, but this influencer with 25,000 followers will probably get you X

00:39:28.200 number of sales because I know those kinds of things. Something as small as I was talking

00:39:33.440 to one author earlier today, and they didn't know they had access to an author portal from

00:39:38.980 their publisher that would show them their weekly sales. Oh, right. And guess what? I've never been

00:39:44.680 been given that most people have never been given it the publishers don't tell you that it exists

00:39:48.980 um and I look at it all the time it is so addicting I'm writing down a note to myself to

00:39:57.160 do it because you know what I like I like to know what works and what doesn't work and so

00:40:03.540 if I'm doing a bunch of podcasts or if I'm I pay for Instagram ads sometimes I want to know that

00:40:10.180 those are performing. And this is the only metric I have. So I hit 70,000 in sales today

00:40:15.820 on Sicilian Inheritance, which was awesome. And I'm so psyched. Boom. You should be. Congratulations.

00:40:22.720 Thank you. And I just feel like we should all know that. Like we don't live in a world. I mean,

00:40:27.320 Sally Rooney lives in a world where she's like, I don't care. Maybe she's my nemesis, okay? And

00:40:31.280 I'm just going to put it out there. And that's all right. She doesn't care because I don't think

00:40:34.620 she reads anything on social media. She definitely doesn't listen to my podcast. So it's cool.

00:40:39.820 hurt her i have a friend also she's so young she can still do a back walkover she right which me 0.99

00:40:45.960 i think full stop anyone who can casually do a back walkover is a candidate for a nemesis

00:40:52.720 yeah totally totally absolutely there are other criteria but i i have a friend who um her fun

00:41:00.700 thing which actually sounds sort of dark but it makes me laugh every time i think about it

00:41:03.680 is she finds an enemy everywhere she goes she never treats them differently but like it'll be

00:41:08.420 like this who's my grocery store enemy and it's like oh it's that person who like accidentally

00:41:12.180 got in my way there and she can channel any frustration she has that she's like oh it's

00:41:16.120 that person's fault she hasn't and she's like oh they're my enemy i love that that is like a life

00:41:21.140 hack that i would i think more people should know it's like who is my nemesis at school drop-off

00:41:25.880 right now you're right because sometimes it's fun i think like you know we were talking earlier

00:41:30.400 about what's the spirit the spirit of my work is find an enemy but the spirit i think this

00:41:34.900 I think self-indulgence and being silly and being playful because I'm like petty being petty is a

00:41:42.900 little part of that we when my friends and I are being petty we call it being petty spaghetti

00:41:46.640 like oh you're being like nitpicky and blah blah but sometimes it feels really gratifying to just

00:41:52.060 be petty like one thing I love so much about my husband is he likes to gossip and I feel like

00:41:57.140 Oh, I love that.

00:41:57.820 A lot of men do not like to gossip.

00:42:00.020 I wish my husband would gossip more.

00:42:02.080 Yeah. 1.00

00:42:02.620 I'm like, can we, like, like, my favorite thing is getting into the car with him after we've been at a party and it's like, did you, like, let's talk shit.

00:42:09.960 It was like one of the things I loved most about him when we first started dating. 0.92

00:42:12.940 Yes.

00:42:13.740 And I'm like, I think we, we got to give into like light carnal pleasures.

00:42:18.660 Oh my God.

00:42:18.980 I'm thinking about it right now.

00:42:20.400 Yep.

00:42:20.780 Right now.

00:42:22.160 So excited for the secret enemy.

00:42:25.280 It might change every week.

00:42:27.140 can't wait oh yeah they it's a rotating cast of characters this is a rotating cast of characters

00:42:32.980 all right okay we're gonna take one more quick break um and we will be right back

00:42:38.300 we are back what do you think recently i'm curious because the world right now

00:42:50.560 is fraught and weird and scary and strange and i had noticed yeah right it seems everything seems

00:42:57.060 so normal very chill yeah uh although and so in these fraught in these fraught weird dark times

00:43:05.260 that we are in what are what is really resonating with your audience online right now what do people

00:43:10.340 want to hear and find comforting in this moment you know a common theme that that right now has

00:43:20.360 been hope i think and giving because for me that that really happened when kamala was you know the

00:43:31.700 nominee and it just felt like maybe there's like a part in the clouds a break in the clouds rather

00:43:40.000 break in the clouds but nice break in the clouds yeah that's actually a line from one of my poems

00:43:45.740 but like it I think everyone's looking for relief hope and a distraction and I think we want a

00:43:56.820 distraction it's just like yes can I can I just like be a human for a second that doesn't isn't

00:44:05.540 scared for their life like yeah and for the state of everything like we're just I think we're all

00:44:11.320 very very tense for different reasons of course but you know it's just feeling like can there

00:44:17.660 just be a moment of and I think the internet can be both it can either like rile you up and

00:44:26.740 sometimes that's great or it can give you comfort and I'm finding that that comfort is where my

00:44:34.000 audience is what they're seeking right now more than being enraged and actually as you've noticed

00:44:41.140 in my book, it's, I separate the sections by emotion and mood. Yes. Which I actually really,

00:44:48.820 really like. And I think that so many, I think bookstores should be, should be sectioned off

00:44:54.100 by emotion and mood. Instead of just genre? I don't know. No, no, no, no, no. Mood. Mood. Yes.

00:45:01.120 Yes. Because I was just like, why do I pick up? Because I think poetry books,

00:45:04.900 you read different than you read a novel, for example. You pick it up. Sometimes you'll read

00:45:09.860 cover to cover but I think more so it's like let me flip and see what strikes me and pick and pick

00:45:15.020 and choose and so I was like I want to give people a sort of compass an emotional compass to let them

00:45:19.720 know if you're feeling this way you can go to these poems or if you want to feel this way go

00:45:25.320 to these and there's one whole section that's basically rage and it's called when the monster

00:45:31.420 turns out to be three dogs in a trench coat and that's about like rage and epiphanies and then

00:45:35.900 there's one that's lullabies and it's called when someone telling you to relax actually works and

00:45:41.740 i would say my audience right now wants lullabies like we just need someone to tell us it's going

00:45:48.880 to be okay even if it might not we just need to believe it for a second just for a second that's

00:45:53.620 the thing like you don't have to completely bamboozle yourself forever but yes i would just

00:45:59.980 like someone to be like it is going to be okay i mean i'm lying to you but i'm lying to you in this

00:46:05.020 very soothing voice gonna be good but listen but listen it's totally fine like i just want

00:46:13.680 terry gross to like come over to my house yes every night and be like it's totally gonna be

00:46:17.920 okay joe no one's mad at you no one's mad at you the world's not gonna the world's not gonna end

00:46:24.700 you're not a bit much you're not yeah and even when you are it's okay yeah it's okay you are

00:46:31.420 and it's a compliment and it's compliment yeah people like you even your enemy at school drop

00:46:36.780 off you are someone's enemy and you're making their day and i know i know oh my god i'm just

00:46:44.060 so excited for that life plan i really i can't wait to hear about it you'll have to dm me and

00:46:48.440 tell me oh my god i'll dm you immediately i'll take a picture of them i'll take a picture of

00:46:52.420 them every morning okay like in a really creepy way enemy it's perfect current enemy listen to

00:46:59.560 this shitty thing um yeah it's gonna it's it's gonna be great no i agree with you i think that 0.57

00:47:04.880 we want hope and joy and escape escapism uh i wish that social media did bring about less rage 0.79

00:47:13.320 to be honest i i think that it is creating that some of the comments that people have made to me

00:47:21.400 when i've posted things that i think believe are so innocuous i mean it's essentially been like i

00:47:27.380 hope that your house burns down and i'm like oh my gosh like there is so much anger um on social

00:47:32.460 media that um it is it is shocking i mean do you ever get negative feedback on your poems i know 0.99

00:47:38.980 kate there gets a lot of shit from men yeah and i think kate posts or shares more of her sort of

00:47:47.800 divisive is the wrong word um yeah political or opinionated or whatever her work i think 0.99

00:47:53.180 skew gives a certain i think my i think i post speaking of innocuous i think a lot of the stuff

00:47:59.800 i'm putting on my instagram isn't really ruffling any feathers there's a couple things in the book

00:48:05.460 and i i do not read my reviews because that was something that i was told don't do it for readers

00:48:12.720 not authors but i just discovered the grossest thing today do you want to hear it yes yeah of

00:48:19.200 course you do so um on amazon hold on i'm gonna go on to sicilian inheritance on amazon right now 0.99

00:48:25.900 uh there is an ai bot on your book page that it's called rufus which is the dumbest fucking name for 0.80

00:48:35.680 an ai bot of all time oh yeah i've seen him up there but he's up there and you can ask him 0.86

00:48:40.840 questions and he will go through all of the reviews of your book and answer based off this question

00:48:48.560 but they're ai generated so like everything is like well some people hate it

00:48:52.100 um no what if this so it's i just clicked ruth rufus it's like what do readers think of the

00:48:59.800 book's pacing and plot twists and rufus will comb all of these reviewers and let's remember the fact

00:49:07.280 that like some reviewers are like so gracious and so wonderful and so kind and then like some

00:49:13.020 we're just assholes and so um oh now it's not answering me i think it's been listening i think 0.67

00:49:19.840 because i've been mocking rufus to my husband so i think it's been listening to me so now it's 0.93

00:49:23.640 saying i can't answer this um but before it was like well the reviews are mixed about this and

00:49:28.000 i'm like you're saying this with such authority yes for i don't like this you're a dog no rufus

00:49:33.860 is the enemy of the day yeah rufus rufus well like we can't because it's already sally rooney

00:49:38.300 so maybe tomorrow that's right you're right you're right well maybe there's no cap oh my god

00:49:42.260 oh my god this is happening in real time right now i've heard about this with non-fiction books

00:49:48.660 with some of my friends who have non-fiction books that ai has been crawling their books

00:49:54.060 and oh my gosh and making like bios or like biographies yes yes and now sicilian inheritance

00:49:59.460 has one i'm gonna have to have it taken down it's called study guide sicilian inheritance by joe

00:50:04.540 super summary no way being sold for 11.95 for a paperback um a book but it doesn't come up when

00:50:16.280 i when i do sicilian inheritance it just came up for me for some reason um crazy they they've been

00:50:25.540 doing um my friend kate kennedy had a had a book of essays out early this year and for non-fiction

00:50:33.160 a lot of times they're doing like biographies of her life yeah yeah yeah AI written like all

00:50:38.720 fully they did that to my friend Glynis McNichol as well and so I didn't think that it was going

00:50:44.000 to happen for fiction but now it has it has chapter by chapter summaries no way yeah yeah

00:50:53.600 oh there it is I see oh yeah it was up there I just didn't notice it because it was just a blue

00:50:57.540 a blue little thing yes yes i mean this is bananas right now analyses for all 23 chapters

00:51:08.380 of the sicilian yeah yeah yeah um what do you do in this situation well i know that when it was

00:51:16.600 like a fake biography that they can be taken down um yeah but i mean i guess i tell my editor right

00:51:23.720 like now all of us everyone is joining us on this journey right now because now amazon is the enemy

00:51:28.480 of the day also you're you're in great company they've done it for uh to kill a mockingbird

00:51:35.240 fair night 451 lord of the flies fair fair but those people are dead so they don't need royalty

00:51:41.300 money f scott fitzgerald isn't doing any cease and desist f scott fitzgerald yeah oh the women

00:51:48.000 by kristen hannah it's all it's all of the water it's all of it i mean i yeah and i don't know who's

00:51:53.640 actually buying these. But now I think this is such an example of AI taking what we're writing

00:51:58.960 and then creating its own thing. I know. Wow. That's crazy. This is crazy. And we've discovered

00:52:05.940 it together here. That was exciting. My heart's racing. I know. I know. That was totally exciting.

00:52:12.220 Okay. Now, sadly, I have to go. I'm leaving you guys with a cliffhanger. What is Joe going to do?

00:52:17.060 I just emailed Maya and I was like, what should we do about this? I don't even need to tell people

00:52:22.440 where to find you because everyone already follows mary oliver's junk cousin but if you haven't

00:52:26.100 gotten a bit much yet then you should get it you i want you to get it i want you to give it

00:52:30.060 this is one of those books like i like to talk about how people can gift books because i don't

00:52:34.840 want people to just buy one book i want people to buy like five or six of them and i say this

00:52:40.080 at book events too because i genuinely believe that like signed personalized copies are the

00:52:44.340 best presents you can give people like why would you show up with flowers when you could show up

00:52:47.640 with a signed book i think this is a great birthday book for your girlfriends i just like this this

00:52:53.260 has now become kate's kate's book was my birthday book last year and when her and i did a event

00:52:59.320 together she signed like 12 copies for my friends and so this is my new birthday book for this year

00:53:05.240 i love it that's so cute for my ladies for my ladies happy i have i did when we with our little

00:53:11.920 local bookstore when they people could like you know order signed copies and there were several

00:53:17.040 that were in you know piles of like seven or eight and it was their like secret santa things

00:53:22.060 like exchange and it was the cutest thing the cutest thing the cutest thing i know i love it

00:53:28.700 so box up by all your friends thank you for coming on thank you for coming on and we'll we're gonna

00:53:33.820 have to meet in person one of these days if you are in philly or on the east coast let me know

00:53:37.080 and we will hang out and try to do back walkers together and if you're ever in nashville oh i'm

00:53:42.520 in nashville alabama right totally but i'm in nashville all the time because my best friend

00:53:45.920 lives in Nashville. So I will let you know. I'll let you know when I'm on my way. All right. Done.

00:53:50.520 All right. And that is all we have for today. Grab a copy of Lindsay's book, A Bit Much. You'll

00:53:56.840 love it. Also, get yourself some Sicilian inheritances for the holidays. Shoot me a note

00:54:02.360 and I will send you personalized nameplates for whoever you want to gift it to. Books are the best

00:54:08.140 holiday presents, guys. They are. They really are. No one really wants anything else except for the

00:54:12.900 hot Sicilian in their stockings. And maybe I'll show up and do carols at their house. You never 1.00

00:54:18.520 know what I'm going to do next. Now go do something nice for yourself. You deserve it.

00:54:42.900 Transcription by CastingWords

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - October 29, 2024

Can a Poem Have a Punchline？ With @MaryOliversDrunkCousin

Episode Stats

Transcript