Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - ＂How Not to Look Like Shit＂： Bobbi Brown on Makeup, Aging, and Being Scrappy Forever

00:00:00.000 hey y'all joe here and you are listening to under the influence as you know i run a pop-up bookshop

00:00:12.800 with my husband nick astor called bookcase books you can follow us on the on the instagrams we're

00:00:18.400 still like babies on the instagram so definitely give us a follow one of the books that i can't

00:00:22.420 stop recommending from the bookcase is bobby brown's memoir still bobby i love bobby i love

00:00:29.460 Bobby so much. We used to work together at Yahoo. Oh, poor Yahoo. I mean, it was such a funny time.

00:00:36.340 Bobby was running the beauty part of Yahoo, and I was working on the travel website. And it was

00:00:43.080 bananas. It was like a Yahoo time, like Yahoo! And that's how I got to know her. But I've also

00:00:50.820 been wearing Bobby Brown's makeup since I first started wearing makeup in the 90s.

00:00:55.920 still bobby is such a great book because it's a memoir by a very famous successful person

00:01:03.480 that does not read like a victory lap like it just reads like a book that you're reading

00:01:09.340 about one of your friends who happens to have run many wildly successful businesses

00:01:15.120 bobby built bobby brown cosmetics out of her house while she was pregnant she was a makeup artist

00:01:21.320 and she was like giving makeup tips to Vogue on the phone while her kid threw up down her back, 1.00

00:01:26.900 right? Like we've all been there. We've all been there. Four and a half years later,

00:01:31.220 Estee Lauder called her and said, hey, we want to buy your brand. She didn't even really know

00:01:36.200 what a brand was. And she was just like, oh, okay, yeah. So she sold it and then stayed on

00:01:41.240 for 22 years working for the people who then owned her name. And she's so honest in her book

00:01:47.400 about how those years went and like what was good and what wasn't good about that. And I just love

00:01:53.000 how raw and open she is. When she left Estee Lauder, she still had four and a half years left

00:01:57.600 on her non-compete where she was legally not allowed to make a single beauty product. And 0.51

00:02:02.540 for someone like Bobbi who loves working, who loves making things, this was crazy making for

00:02:07.800 her. Okay. She renovated a hotel. She sold vitamins at Walmart. She did an eyeglasses line

00:02:12.580 And then she launched what I think is actually one of the best makeup brands out there right

00:02:18.480 now, Jones Road.

00:02:20.640 I love me some Jones Road, guys.

00:02:23.020 But she launched it in 2020 during COVID, right around the 2020 election.

00:02:27.620 Not the best time to launch a brand, but she did it.

00:02:29.960 And now it's a massive success, okay?

00:02:32.540 Bobby talks about all of that.

00:02:34.180 And you're just going to love this interview because it feels like just listening in on

00:02:39.200 like chatting with one of your friends.

00:02:40.440 I feel so lucky that I've gotten to know Bobby. She is the absolute best. And I really think that

00:02:46.340 Still Bobby makes an awesome, awesome book club pick. I hope you love our chat as much as I do.

00:02:58.660 How are you doing? I'm excellent. It's so nice to see you. I love seeing you. I mean,

00:03:03.760 it's been about 10 years since we worked together at Yahoo, which is crazy. That is crazy,

00:03:09.460 pants it was the best worst experience the best worst experience in my life like that's something

00:03:14.240 that totally sums up like all the things all the thing um but i do feel like you've been with me

00:03:19.780 through like every stage of my life bobby brown was some of the first make makeup that i wore

00:03:26.280 in the 90s when i started started wearing makeup uh and now jones road is is what i'm wearing in

00:03:33.600 in my midlife and i love it so much you are such a guru you came into the beauty industry with this

00:03:41.140 what was at the time in the 90s a radical idea that women should just look like themselves

00:03:45.260 right i always tried to fit in right and it's like i just don't fit in anywhere so i just kind

00:03:52.260 of realized that once i just do what makes sense it kind of works better it kind of works and i

00:03:58.360 think that is such great advice for life generally it's like I I've always felt like I didn't fit in

00:04:04.840 anywhere and I'm like okay what if I just do what makes me feel good for me right yeah yeah but that

00:04:12.540 it's honestly the secret and people always want to know well oh you know how can you teach me to

00:04:17.280 be confident I said the only thing that is about confidence is being comfortable like just walking

00:04:23.680 into a room and just owning who you are like and end a story and don't be around people that make

00:04:30.120 you feel less than totally but i think that's a really hard lesson to to talk to women about when

00:04:37.660 they're teenagers when they're in their 20s even their 30s like i'm 46 now and i've reached a place

00:04:43.420 where i don't give any f's anymore right it's the best place to be it truly is well you give a little

00:04:51.860 because only because I was in my 40s and then I was in my 50s and then I was in my 60s and then

00:04:58.160 you really don't care. So it does even get better. I mean, you know, you get a little more achy in

00:05:04.360 your body. So when you're someone that does the same workout that 35 year olds do, you're like,

00:05:09.880 maybe there's a reason I shouldn't be jumping on that box, but I will kind of, I jump gently. 0.54

00:05:16.280 But you're like, I'm still going to gently jump on that box. Totally. Exactly. Exactly.

00:05:20.980 And yeah, the Bobbi Brown brand has always been about confidence, right?

00:05:27.620 Like how, why did you decide that that was what you wanted to embody when you first started out?

00:05:36.040 Well, I didn't know that's what I wanted to embody.

00:05:38.760 When I first started out and came into their industry, I mean, really in the 80s.

00:05:45.800 In the 80s.

00:05:46.460 In the 80s.

00:05:47.500 You know, the makeup was so out there.

00:05:50.240 Their foundation was white.

00:05:52.140 It was contoured.

00:05:53.020 It was blues and yellows and purples.

00:05:55.260 I tried to paint.

00:05:57.080 I tried to be fabulous.

00:05:58.680 I tried to do all that.

00:06:00.580 And then when the girl watched her face, she looked so much better.

00:06:03.920 And I'm like, huh. 0.98

00:06:05.360 And then I just started doing stupid things, like putting a foundation on that looked like 0.99

00:06:10.260 she wasn't wearing one. 0.98

00:06:11.680 Like putting a blush on that looks like I just pinched her cheeks. 1.00

00:06:15.480 How about a lipstick? 1.00

00:06:16.360 The color of her lips? 1.00

00:06:17.160 like, well, let me just use brown eyeshadow and skip this purple. And I just thought they looked

00:06:22.200 better. And they did. And they did. And luckily, someone else around me who had the power to hire

00:06:29.160 me agreed. Right. So they would hire me again. And it thoroughly became. And I guess I kind of

00:06:36.380 stopped working with the people that wanted a certain thing. And I started finding my people,

00:06:41.800 people that liked i mean self magazine was was then and i was like yeah those are my people

00:06:47.700 yeah or let me stop doing this you know german vogue like things like that yeah yeah oh my god

00:06:54.180 self magazine i miss print magazines so much i still do you still subscribe to print because i

00:07:01.560 get about five a month at this point well no i don't and um i don't and i like to buy them when

00:07:09.020 i'm at the airport oh i know i love an airport why i really do but i only just started to because

00:07:13.720 i'm like all i want is to be more analog now yeah yeah but i love the old things if you go into in

00:07:20.800 in in the hampshire if anyone's ever in sag harbor in the bathroom of tuto donna karen you know is

00:07:27.460 one of the owners of tuto all the old votes from like decades are sitting there in the bathroom in

00:07:33.000 piles oh yeah it's it's like on the shelf it looks so cool I mean I assume people probably

00:07:39.360 you know steal them but there is as but you know what they should like those are there to be taken

00:07:44.120 yeah to be honest yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely I love all those days and that's

00:07:48.600 how I learned to be a makeup artist I'd look at other people's things and I would see girls like

00:07:53.940 jumping outside that Bruce Weber shot and she looked like she had no makeup on but the light

00:07:58.740 hit her a certain way so i started figuring out how to do makeup that well yeah exactly i mean

00:08:03.840 you and you built bobby brown from you know a small company into this massive global brand 0.97

00:08:11.440 did you ever have a moment where you thought holy shit i cannot believe i actually did this 0.88

00:08:17.840 not a whole lot like i'm not the person that sits there and pats myself on the back and you know 0.63

00:08:23.640 So after my memoir came out, I started patting myself a little because I was like, wow, I actually that I did this all.

00:08:31.000 But all the years while I was building this, you know, brand, I also was a freelance makeup artist and I also started having babies.

00:08:40.860 And guess what I did?

00:08:41.700 I did be unthinkable.

00:08:42.720 I moved out of New York and I moved to the suburbs.

00:08:45.400 So I kind of just did all these things and not because of any reason.

00:08:50.640 It just made sense for me in my life.

00:08:52.740 Right, right.

00:08:53.640 And you were building this as you were having kids.

00:08:56.020 I mean, I get asked all the time at my book events.

00:08:58.840 It's like, how do you do this?

00:09:00.280 How do you write books?

00:09:01.100 How do you like run a media company while you have three small kids?

00:09:05.880 And my answer is always, I just we just do it.

00:09:08.940 We just hustle. 1.00

00:09:09.620 We're women. 1.00

00:09:10.080 We just freaking do it. 1.00

00:09:11.740 Yeah.

00:09:12.240 And, you know, there's babysitters. 0.98

00:09:13.820 The babysitters get sick.

00:09:15.000 Who do you call?

00:09:15.920 They're one of my favorite stories. 1.00

00:09:17.860 And it's the stupidest story. 0.99

00:09:19.240 But I tell this this like really describes me. 0.99

00:09:21.460 years ago i had one job for my kids finger darting class and that was to get google eyes you know

00:09:27.240 those little things yeah that was my job because that was i was the last person to say no problem

00:09:32.900 i got this i guess i forgot right and i'm driving home from fashion week and it's like 8 45 and i

00:09:41.120 oh my god googly eyes i do in the morning so i i had my car go to here go to staples no googly eyes

00:09:48.580 No googly eyes.

00:09:49.540 I sat on the street and I almost started to cry.

00:09:53.140 And then I took out my phone and I emailed like 10 different moms.

00:09:57.300 Does anyone have googly eyes? 0.60

00:09:59.360 And guess what?

00:10:00.120 Everybody got out of their bed and sent them to my house.

00:10:04.340 I had more googly eyes, but only because I figured out, so what now?

00:10:08.460 What do I do?

00:10:10.040 Yeah.

00:10:10.500 Yeah, exactly.

00:10:11.280 Because you know who's going to help you?

00:10:13.260 Who's going to show up at like 845 at night? 1.00

00:10:16.040 Other moms. 1.00

00:10:16.980 Other moms. 0.90

00:10:17.560 especially the other moms that by the way there is a favor bank and i had a lot you know i had a

00:10:23.040 lot deposited and not taken out so yeah exactly exactly exactly googly eyes we actually i have a

00:10:30.680 whole bank of googly eyes in the house and also the kind of edible eyes i bought a bunch last year

00:10:37.280 for halloween and now i put them on everything i put them on like nutella toast in the morning

00:10:41.740 it makes everything so much more like magical even if i'm like a less than mom at least i put

00:10:48.380 eyes on your on your on your gd toast okay and look they're gonna either remember how cool you

00:10:54.340 are that way or they're gonna just say oh she just always worked or was never there and like

00:10:58.500 you know what screw you you know what you know i think they're gonna be fine either way yeah they

00:11:04.320 will they will be fine they're gonna be fine either way i love your book so much i gift it

00:11:10.340 to other women all of the time. I mean, I do just because I think that your journey to like

00:11:16.800 building a business, but also figuring out who you were as a woman in midlife, like it has so

00:11:24.300 much knowledge in it for all of us at this point. I mean, like I said, I'm 46. I'm like going through

00:11:30.320 perimenopause. I've got the littles. I've got all the stuff. Your book does all of the things.

00:11:36.940 I want to talk a little bit about your pivot in midlife, right?

00:11:42.660 You sell Bobbi Brown, and then you decide to launch this other massive beauty brand, which every woman that I know loves.

00:11:50.840 What was that like to sell this company that had your name on it?

00:11:56.320 Well, my husband and I started the company when I was in freelance makeup article.

00:12:01.960 and after four and a half years sd lauder called and said you're beating us in the stores we want

00:12:08.460 to buy you and we're like well we're not for sale we didn't know what anything was that's

00:12:12.740 and we didn't know what a brand was we didn't know what you know investments were we didn't

00:12:16.440 know what scale we started in 90 selling lipsticks out of our house because i was pregnant with my

00:12:22.540 first kid when i was on the phone talking to vogue giving them makeup tips as my son's throwing up

00:12:28.000 down my bath you know telling women how to keep their makeup on and be fabulous and so we sold

00:12:34.220 the company four and a half years later and I stayed I I signed a 25 year non-compete and I

00:12:41.960 stayed 22 years as a corporate employee and you know when you read the book most of the years

00:12:48.280 were good and then they weren't and um when I left I still had four and a half years left

00:12:53.840 to kind of waste before I could start a company.

00:12:58.820 What did you do during those four years?

00:13:01.920 Well, I, you know, kind of warned the company for a while, you know,

00:13:08.860 but then I just said, this isn't working, being sad.

00:13:12.040 So I, and if you read the book, you know, I quit or got fired.

00:13:15.560 I definitely got fired, but, but I started doing projects

00:13:20.740 and I renovated a hotel with my husband in Montclair.

00:13:24.940 I started a line of wellness supplements

00:13:27.320 that I sold at Walmart.

00:13:29.820 I had an eyeglass brand.

00:13:33.760 And, you know, the hotel was the most fun thing that I did.

00:13:39.060 And then I just missed being a makeup artist.

00:13:41.000 So I started doing makeup for the vitamin.

00:13:45.580 And when I realized, you know,

00:13:47.220 I hated all the clean makeup on the market,

00:13:49.880 it I just thought I could do better and so I found you know someone to help me you know source all

00:13:56.180 new people and I'll just come up with this weird product called Miracle Bomb let's take a quick

00:14:03.100 break and when we get back I want to talk a little bit about Miracle Bomb and why it's been such a

00:14:09.760 miracle for so many people okay we are back talk to me a little bit about miracle bomb

00:14:23.760 how did you come up with it and why do you think it's been so successful well you know i'm not

00:14:31.820 gonna lie and tell everyone what a genius i am i thought of this but you are bobby you you actually

00:14:36.740 i i see possibilities so i had asked the lab to create this product it was more of a foundation

00:14:44.620 you know with a little bit um creamier feel to it however they misunderstood the brief and they

00:14:53.180 sent back this pot of like you know it looked like it looked like vaseline they just sent this pot 0.94

00:14:59.980 and and i was like god damn it that's not what i wanted but instead of throwing in the garbage i 0.92

00:15:05.460 stuck my hand, I padded my fingers together, started putting it on my face. And I looked 0.94

00:15:11.420 in the mirror, I'm like, Oh my God, this is an UFO. And it was, it was our on natural

00:15:16.380 miracle bomb, which was, you know, sheer. And I said, I wonder what would happen if

00:15:21.060 I tainted this. And so we came up with a bunch of tints and then I started giving, and then

00:15:27.440 the pandemic hit. And then I started giving brittle teeny samples to my girlfriends.

00:15:32.800 and you know we were all kind of at home in the hamptons and we'll be calling you up saying are

00:15:37.620 you reading what okay it instantly makes us look better and feel better and so it became you know

00:15:45.780 the very first product you know skincare and makeup it's skincare it's a moisturizer basically

00:15:51.500 it's all the beautiful botanical oils and it's some had shimmer some doesn't some is colors and

00:15:58.780 Now I think we have 15.

00:16:01.260 Yeah.

00:16:01.620 I have one that has a little bit of a rosy tint.

00:16:06.080 And honestly, it's like I put it on when I get out of bed and then I go do school drop

00:16:11.680 off and I feel like a human again.

00:16:14.580 Right?

00:16:15.380 It's very easy.

00:16:17.340 Yes.

00:16:18.040 It is. 0.99

00:16:18.400 And my original thing was, you know, hashtag how not to look like shit. 0.99

00:16:24.060 Because that's why I wear makeup. 0.99

00:16:25.900 You wake up in the morning and you're like, ah.

00:16:28.160 Who?

00:16:28.780 Who am I?

00:16:30.060 Who am I?

00:16:30.700 And by the way, you just look better.

00:16:32.540 You just look, you look like yourself, but a little bit better.

00:16:39.360 And that's, I mean, that's pretty much how I want to age too.

00:16:42.840 Like I do like, I just, I just want to look like me, but like a little glowier is what I want.

00:16:49.860 Yeah.

00:16:50.360 Yeah. 0.98

00:16:50.720 Well, Miracle Bomb definitely does that.

00:16:52.980 You know, I say my age and I convert that, you know, I don't even know how it happened,

00:16:56.680 But I'm this is my last year of being full school.

00:16:59.180 I mean, I'm 69 years old.

00:17:01.700 Bobby, that is actually insane to me.

00:17:04.300 I mean, it's kind of insane to me, too.

00:17:06.880 And it's one of those things you just can't change.

00:17:09.280 You know, right.

00:17:09.820 You could change your name.

00:17:11.460 You could change a lot of things. 0.73

00:17:12.960 You just want soldier your age. 0.99

00:17:14.780 I know.

00:17:15.100 But I think I've been I've been thinking about this a lot because we I have an 80 year old

00:17:20.800 woman in the Parisian heist. And readers like freaking love her. Stella, right? Like she is

00:17:27.820 just like, she's such a badass. And I think that we're desperate to see women in their 70s and 80s 1.00

00:17:35.200 who are thriving and still like reinventing themselves and being badasses. And we haven't 1.00

00:17:41.360 seen that for so long. And being vibrant, right? Exactly. You know, I went back to school, got my

00:17:47.440 debris as a health coach after i left the brand and i you know i've never practiced but it's what

00:17:52.560 i believe in and i i literally put food in my body that i know is going to taste good but it's 0.94

00:17:59.740 going to be good for me right i'm just not going to eat like processed food and crap yeah oh crap

00:18:07.580 you know and it makes a huge difference and i move my body i exercise i go to physical therapy

00:18:14.000 you know and i do a lot of lasers like that's i'm i'm leaning heavy into that because i don't want

00:18:20.900 to do any botox or injectables and i've been testing out a whole bunch oh wait tell me about

00:18:27.580 the lasers i want to know everything about the lasers yeah so my favorite one is um is called

00:18:35.460 oh my god how about my brain that is the one thing that does happen you can do that stuff

00:18:39.980 it's called soft will okay and it it's radio frequent frequency you have to be numbed if it

00:18:47.340 does hurt but it quick okay yep i do you know and what it does is it guards the tightening like so

00:18:53.440 my my chin always you know gets a little tighter i mean i want this to like do this a little bit

00:19:00.340 yeah yeah i want to go up a little bit yeah well there's i mean there's little things like this

00:19:06.420 And I'm not going to lie, these things that I'm doing, they hurt.

00:19:09.260 They are really expensive and I get them for free.

00:19:12.960 Right.

00:19:13.480 So, you know, I can't hear.

00:19:15.380 Do I notice?

00:19:16.420 I actually do notice.

00:19:18.100 Is it like, oh, my God, dramatic?

00:19:20.280 No.

00:19:21.380 Will I keep trying all of them?

00:19:23.720 I will.

00:19:25.040 You know, like one of them, I'll tell you, you hurt so much.

00:19:28.600 I will never do it again.

00:19:31.080 And it's called Ulthera.

00:19:32.840 Like that is just, that's like, it's like really clean.

00:19:36.420 um being late beyond no no non-numbering so that's the one i stay away from and there's a

00:19:42.640 whole bunch of others that that are you know interesting and coral or you know i'm hoping

00:19:47.980 that one day there'll be one that really does you know soften wrinkles so i don't have to inject

00:19:53.340 botulism into my forehead i know i know i hate injecting the botulism into my forehead i do i

00:19:59.680 do but i do i do look lovely afterwards is the problem i do i know but why you probably look

00:20:06.380 lovely but again i haven't had it in a year and i think i still look lovely yeah yeah and and you

00:20:12.580 know what when i don't look rubbery i usually say to myself okay bobby what is going on often

00:20:18.180 i haven't been hydrating myself seems water okay or moving my body and it's and the combination so

00:20:26.660 this book was such a great experience writing it it was very cathartic but i did the whole

00:20:32.660 thing while i was walking i i i had a you know i a ghost writer i just were talking on the phone

00:20:40.080 it was a guy not a makeup guy you know wrote about rock and roll and we just walked and talked and

00:20:47.280 you know i got a you know 10 000 steps easily if not more i walk while novel writing now i will

00:20:55.960 just i will like i will talk it out and then i say it into a transcription app and then it transcribes

00:21:02.000 it for me i think there is something about creativity and movement and like just saying

00:21:07.740 things out loud that is really really nice yeah oh no it's it's amazing and i some of sometimes i

00:21:15.780 do hire a robot and my creative ideas are so good but then when i look at them later i'm like those

00:21:22.280 of stool. Those are out there. So, you know, I find the higher my heart rate goes, the

00:21:28.160 the crazier your ideas go. Exactly. Exactly. What I think is so interesting about Jones

00:21:37.340 Road is that it launched at a very different time than Bobby Brown. Like you launched into

00:21:43.200 the world of influencers and TikTok. And like, how did that change? Like how the company

00:21:49.960 how to do marketing, how to do everything. Well, we launched literally during the pandemic.

00:21:58.480 It was 2020 in October. And I think I think it was the 20th of October to be exact. I think my

00:22:06.020 non-complete was up on like the 17th or 18th, but it was a weekend. So I promised, you know,

00:22:11.940 whoever was helping me at the time, I'd wait till Monday. And it was one week before the

00:22:16.180 presidential election and everybody said to me you are out of your mind why are you doing this

00:22:21.760 you know why don't we wait till january well you remember january 6th oh i do so so i just launched

00:22:29.680 and you know i think it was brilliant it was so simple we launched with our business story

00:22:35.360 in wall street journal a five minute today show um like you know story which is huge for today

00:22:43.220 show yeah yeah and elvis duran is that how we launched and then you know kind of you know sat

00:22:50.200 there quietly dealing with you know whatever had our logistics had to happen and then i just started

00:22:55.940 doing you know it's the pandemic so then i just started doing things you know whether it's you

00:23:01.980 know instagram lives or there were there were podcasts back then i'd be on radio shows so

00:23:08.520 And yes, eventually I went on TikTok and, you know, became a quarter quarter TikTok star.

00:23:15.400 You're very good. I think because you are and I thought this I was I was kind of starstruck the first time I met you when we were at Yahoo together.

00:23:22.740 But you're so relatable. You are just like an an every woman.

00:23:27.680 And I think that's why people love you on the social media and also why they love the Jones Road.

00:23:35.560 Right.

00:23:35.760 Well, I try to be truthful and honest.

00:23:38.540 You know, I don't show, you know, every bad thing because some things are actually private, believe it or not.

00:23:45.600 They are.

00:23:46.640 You know, but I, you know, like the struggle's real, right?

00:23:51.520 Like, life is hard.

00:23:53.700 No one says it's easy.

00:23:55.060 Work is hard.

00:23:55.880 I've been married 38 years.

00:23:58.120 I'm nabbing in love.

00:23:59.640 But I'm sorry.

00:24:00.400 It's hard.

00:24:01.300 It's hard.

00:24:02.180 It's not easy.

00:24:03.360 I have three sons.

00:24:04.340 they're incredible not easy i have two daughter-in-laws a couple grandkids and guess what

00:24:10.520 all we've been requires work i have to call my friends if i don't call my friend they get mad at

00:24:16.020 me that's it yeah that's work and and by the way as soon as i do touch base with everyone i feel

00:24:23.020 so connected and so good so i make sure that's part of my routine yeah exactly but it is work

00:24:29.900 like building this village having having a successful marriage wifing right it's all work

00:24:37.220 all worth it but work um and i think i think that's that's the thing that social media

00:24:43.400 erases a lot it erases like the labor of it right and so you know especially the younger

00:24:49.120 generation is like oh it looks so easy no this is freaking hard it's hard and then you know on top

00:24:55.500 of it all this stuff that you see that you're not part of you're like oh my god i didn't get

00:25:00.180 invited to that how come and then i realized thank god i didn't get invited because then i would

00:25:05.020 struggle with i'd have to go yeah or struggle with should i go i mean you know i i see a bunch

00:25:11.820 of the things that i you know like said no to out in the hamptons and then i see them like oh maybe

00:25:17.400 i should have and then i'm like no because then i would then i would need a blowout and then i

00:25:22.200 need a high pair of shoes and i'm like you know what i had a really lovely evening in the backyard

00:25:28.240 with my husband and a couple friends and you know that was that that was special right exactly and

00:25:34.300 looking like this just wearing a hat without the blowout yeah all the things all the things all

00:25:40.040 right let's take one more quick break uh and when we get back i want to talk a little bit about the

00:25:45.120 word anti-aging words and how we feel about them all right we are back what do you think about

00:26:01.700 anti-aging i want to get rid of it in the lexicon i'm like can we just i like aging frankly well

00:26:08.260 first of all we are older when you asked since you asked me that question so we we we just age

00:26:15.580 we just age aging happens thing yeah no the anti-aging thing makes no sense no sense at all

00:26:23.580 i mean i i've always been someone that i don't usually age certainly not on myself you know i

00:26:31.540 I am, you know, incredibly fun-loving and immature.

00:26:35.120 No question.

00:26:36.640 Love.

00:26:37.280 Yes.

00:26:38.060 And, you know, my energy is, I know it's really good when it's something I love and something, you know, I'm curious about.

00:26:47.960 And for me, curiosity is probably the most important thing in my life because it kind of leads me to say, huh, why not?

00:26:55.140 Let me check that out.

00:26:56.060 Let me figure that out.

00:26:57.180 You know, so I think that's what fuels me, but it also gives me energy to kind of keep going.

00:27:06.120 I'm going to pivot us for a second. I want to talk. One of the things I mean, I just got off book tour. I'm obviously exhausted. And people ask me a lot. They're like, can women have it all? And I say I'm like, yes, but like not all at once. Right. Like I drop balls all the time.

00:27:24.580 How do you feel about the idea of women having it all? 1.00

00:27:28.720 I mean, I think we can have, I mean, what is the all? 1.00

00:27:32.600 What is the all?

00:27:33.360 Exactly.

00:27:33.820 Yeah.

00:27:34.220 The all.

00:27:34.940 I think I have it all.

00:27:37.060 I have a very successful family life.

00:27:40.760 I have a very, I have very successful relationships with very old friends.

00:27:46.540 I even have good relationships with new friends.

00:27:49.320 Like who gets new?

00:27:50.360 We were good friends.

00:27:51.180 i have you know a thriving business that sometimes thing is daunting and you know how much has to be

00:27:58.760 done and other times it's just wonderful to me that's all i've got chipped mail who cares

00:28:05.720 i mean you know i'm still wearing my bike shorts from the walk i didn't do it right

00:28:11.700 i packed and said you know i'm like okay well that is all that is all because i made the decision

00:28:20.540 that these things are okay and it's like the more you let go of certain things the better

00:28:27.020 you are like i i i talk to a lot of moms that are struggling with their kids and i'm like okay like

00:28:34.060 just calm down for a second you got to let the kids win things that aren't that important

00:28:39.120 like if lily my granddaughter really wants to watch you know a cartoon and she's melting down

00:28:45.380 it's okay put it on okay let her let her calm down like it'll give you a second to you know

00:28:54.300 finish the dinner like it's okay she's not going to turn into but you know a lot of parents i'm

00:29:00.400 sure i was i don't think i was the same i think i was you know an easier parent i never felt i i

00:29:08.120 I don't think I ever felt guilty.

00:29:10.800 Were you parenting in the 90s, 2000s?

00:29:13.700 I was.

00:29:14.540 My first baby was born in 90.

00:29:16.920 My last baby in 90.

00:29:18.320 Oh, okay.

00:29:19.180 I felt bad when I was getting into a car or walking to the bus when my, you know, youngest son was crying, don't go.

00:29:28.180 But, you know, I knew that he felt me.

00:29:32.100 Right, right, right.

00:29:33.220 Yeah.

00:29:33.780 Yeah.

00:29:34.080 And, you know, I luckily for me, because I was freelance, multiple parties, I was able to lose the home a couple of days.

00:29:45.580 And when I became a full time employee for Estee Lauder, I started doing things, not asking for permission, like working from home on a Friday, working from home on a Wednesday.

00:29:57.740 I just started doing it before it was a thing.

00:30:00.760 Yeah. But I mean, that's also a very human way to work. That's the thing. I think about this all the time. I have the flexibility now to like I'm home, right? Like my kids are in school all day and I get to write from like nine to three. I get to do podcasts. But I could also stop by school and drop off an inhaler if I have to. It's a human way to work.

00:30:24.020 I always made sure I had like the support around, you know, it was my husband. It was, you know, at one time we had a Manny, which was Canada. So, you know, he did the youngest. By the time our third kid was in, you know, baseball, he was the coach.

00:30:41.100 Great. Yes. Yes.

00:30:42.620 you know we we just figured it out along the way well i mean that's one of the things that i love

00:30:48.820 that you you talk about in your book right it's like we have to talk about how we have help the

00:30:54.660 people who are supporting us i say all the time i i quote catlin moran you're the person you marry

00:31:00.840 is your glass ceiling like the your partner like really does determine what you are able to do

00:31:07.380 and I married someone with no ceiling like I married we run a company together like very

00:31:12.980 similar to what you guys do how did you guys navigate working together and then also being

00:31:19.600 married you know we never thought about it and you know we have different opinions on a lot of

00:31:28.220 things and we totally have different styles you know he still doesn't understand half the times

00:31:33.700 what i say and as if i text him something if you know to him it's not english to me bobby speak

00:31:40.800 and i have plenty of people in my life that know my bobby speak i have you know i don't know how

00:31:45.740 to type so when i do type sometimes it's just a mess um and i never proofread before i crescend

00:31:53.340 i drive him crazy but you know i i've gotten to the point where i don't care if we you know tells

00:32:00.980 know i'm doing something long at that because oh well i can't change right this is who you are

00:32:07.920 exactly yeah so you know you figure it out and early on like we just brought our kids everywhere

00:32:13.660 we literally just threw everything in a bag in a backpack we got on trains in europe we got in

00:32:19.480 hotels i mean how many people could say their child pooped in the ritz right i know i mean

00:32:26.260 exactly yeah i'm like i'm like i i changed your diaper in the coliseum yeah yeah yeah yeah

00:32:34.760 standing up standing standing up literally just held you held you uh-huh so funny but that also

00:32:41.960 makes you scrappy and it's too able to like okay i got this exactly things happen things fall apart

00:32:49.760 you know in work in life and it's right it's it's okay because it's what you do with it what

00:32:54.780 do you do with the information i think that being scrappy has actually made me better at everything

00:33:01.020 that i do right yeah yeah and i think you know people look at you and they're like she is bobby

00:33:07.220 brown she is you know she is a beauty mogul but you are scrappy as hell like you and i'm not only 0.68

00:33:15.540 scrappy as hell i'm like so real so this is like who keeps their makeup in a box on the desk like 0.87

00:33:22.360 i don't i never did before but at my i took my makeup bag and i dumped it out and i threw other 0.80

00:33:27.700 stuff in i'm like it's in a cardboard box on your desk it's in a cardboard box you know what because

00:33:33.600 i like things compartmentalized like because otherwise i get overloaded like like my my i

00:33:39.620 don't have an assistant here so i'm a little messy yeah you know when i get off the podcast before my

00:33:46.900 next thing i'm going to spend a minute organizing it because it helps me calm down yes yes same 0.61

00:33:54.040 same i have i have very intense virgo energy and yet i am i am scrappy as fuck frankly and that's

00:34:02.040 and that's how i get it all done the other thing i do that is so incredibly helpful is i have the 0.55

00:34:08.460 most incredible organizer oh i just i just call her and i don't care if it's my house like after

00:34:14.520 Thanksgiving, my house, because I have like a million people stay there. I left to go to travel

00:34:19.560 and my kitchen was just, and I just said, called her. I said, I need you for the day. And she came

00:34:24.420 in and redid my entire kitchen. She's done this to my offer. She does it at work and it is just

00:34:30.840 money well spent. Well, and I love that because I think that outsourcing the things that you

00:34:37.420 are not the best at is the best money you can spend. Well, it's funny. I'm really good at it.

00:34:43.260 I just don't always have the time or the vocals.

00:34:47.140 Yep.

00:34:47.620 Yep.

00:34:48.200 Exactly.

00:34:49.080 Exactly.

00:34:49.600 Today, I'm packing up the house.

00:34:51.420 I'm cleaning out the refrigerator.

00:34:52.700 I'm doing laundry.

00:34:54.360 And this is in between things.

00:34:57.280 And I'm not going to lie.

00:34:58.260 It's a lot.

00:34:59.240 It's a lot.

00:34:59.860 It's a lot.

00:35:00.540 Yeah.

00:35:01.060 Yeah. 1.00

00:35:01.720 But, you know, we're women. 1.00

00:35:04.560 We hustle. 1.00

00:35:05.220 We do all the goddamn things. 0.99

00:35:07.940 Will you tell everyone about your book, where they can find it? 0.99

00:35:11.760 And I will say that I actually think that this is a great book club book. A lot of book clubs just do novels, right? But I love the idea of doing this book together because I think that it brings up so many questions about how we want to be in the world. And I think that's what book clubs are really hungry to talk about.

00:35:33.740 well it's so funny i know nothing about the book industry i actually went on my sub stack and say

00:35:39.760 said hey guys is there anyone out there that has a book something that and honestly i didn't get a

00:35:46.220 whole lot of whole lot of response so i guess book people aren't following me so i'm like okay well

00:35:51.320 that's i got to figure out who's big in the book world and that's why i am on your podcast

00:35:56.460 because we said okay joe um but the book it's called still bobby and it's you know it's it's

00:36:04.520 not just my story but it's really a story of a young girl who again didn't fit in anywhere was

00:36:12.920 not you know the tallest the smartest she was probably the nicest and was never you know and

00:36:19.620 the most and the most fun to hang out with just saying like to some people yeah and um and she

00:36:25.480 You know, I met my parents never just expected that I would be somewhere and I just kind of follow my own path.

00:36:33.000 And somehow I figured things out and I found myself in situations that no matter what, I would come home and I I was still Bobby.

00:36:41.260 And there was, you know, a lifetime of like being scrappy and figuring out.

00:36:47.380 And if I could do it, anyone.

00:36:50.900 Yeah, no, I totally agree.

00:36:52.600 Like, I want everyone to book club this book this fall.

00:36:55.840 I do.

00:36:56.880 I do.

00:36:57.200 And, you know, the hardcover is launched last September with a great book party by my friend Diane Von Persenberg, which was so interesting.

00:37:07.940 And she interviewed me, did not read the book, because I didn't read the book.

00:37:11.420 So what should I ask you?

00:37:13.280 And I looked out in the audience and I saw all my journalist friends and I'm like, OK, you guys start asking questions.

00:37:18.560 You go.

00:37:19.700 You go.

00:37:20.120 You go.

00:37:20.640 Because it was like, don't make me do this.

00:37:22.460 but and and now the paperback which we're releasing so well i'm i also love a paperback

00:37:29.100 okay like i love a book that i can throw in my purse if like i actually think paperback should

00:37:34.140 maybe come out first so like i'm more excited for your paperback launch than the hardcover

00:37:39.380 yeah i'm excited for the paperback launch because you know we changed the cover and we and you know

00:37:45.620 we we included a little different tagline which probably should have been on our fungi wall

00:37:50.480 you know so um you know a little bit of a of a remarket but it's the same book but a lot of

00:37:57.340 things have happened since that book came out so i'll have to figure out you know where to cover

00:38:02.040 that well in the next edition let's do a new forward for it right yeah yeah yeah exactly or

00:38:08.920 like a whole new audio forward i love the audio books so much so much and like my audience loves

00:38:15.500 the audio so you can always add an audio well i'm going to download yours because as as i wish i

00:38:22.360 could say i was a ninja reader i am definitely too distracted and i read i read memoirs but but i

00:38:28.940 could listen to fiction yeah exactly exactly well and the the fiction of uh parisian heist uh in

00:38:36.280 audio is wonderful our readers are so good yeah yeah you'll love it you'll love it well maybe this

00:38:41.440 is the perfect book for my husband and i to listen to my husband's a major reader oh well do it

00:38:46.640 together i have a lot of couples that are reading it together right now actually yeah it'll be on

00:38:52.160 the car when we drive back done easy peasy love it love you you were the best thank you so much

00:38:58.080 Thank you.

00:39:28.080 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 08, 2026

＂How Not to Look Like Shit＂： Bobbi Brown on Makeup, Aging, and Being Scrappy Forever

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