Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Is This The End？

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00:00:27.000 O'Hungry O'Henry.

00:00:30.000 Download. Open. Okay. And, oh dear. Oh, back. What? What's happening? What?

00:00:51.580 Here I am again, scrolling through social media on my phone in the middle of the night.

00:00:56.420 except now I've got headphones in and I'm in the other room because this is TikTok and it is loud 0.99

00:01:02.460 as fuck. I realized that I can't fully report on the world of influencers without understanding 0.95

00:01:09.140 this brave new social media platform. But unlike when I used to scroll the grand light at night,

00:01:15.400 I'm a little disoriented. It feels a little bit like one of my kids has just sat on the remote

00:01:20.520 control and their butt is flipping through every channel known to man. I'm not gonna do it girl.

00:01:26.420 I was just thinking about it.

00:01:27.480 I'm not going to do it. 1.00

00:01:28.420 You are dumb. 1.00

00:01:30.080 Unattracted. 1.00

00:01:30.640 Overweight.

00:01:31.000 Tick-tock dancer starter kid.

00:01:32.560 I was over on the bench.

00:01:33.540 I was over on the bench.

00:01:34.480 What you're going to need is you're going to start off with an icon.

00:01:36.000 She's a legend and she is the mom.

00:01:37.420 Unattracted. 1.00

00:01:37.800 Overweight.

00:01:38.140 Unattracted.

00:01:38.580 I was over on the bench.

00:01:41.300 Okay, so after a lot of swiping and poking, I finally found what I was looking for.

00:01:46.400 Mom talk.

00:01:48.080 One mom in particular has caught my eye.

00:01:50.160 Breaking news.

00:01:51.040 It has been a most mundane Friday.

00:01:53.240 As you can see, I am doing laundry.

00:01:55.340 Fridays are laundry days in our household.

00:01:59.080 That's Jane Park. 1.00

00:02:00.560 She's got just over 3 million followers on the TikTok. 0.71

00:02:05.580 I reached out to Jane to try to wrap my head around this mom talk thing.

00:02:12.840 When I talked to Jane, I got a story that was pretty similar to the ones that we've heard over and over again from the Instagram moms. 0.90

00:02:20.820 Jane used to be a journalist, a newscaster.

00:02:24.280 What you just heard is a TikTok video where she's using her old newscaster voice.

00:02:29.560 But when Jane had her kids, she needed a job that was a little less demanding, a little more flexible, and then it became hard to even have a job at all.

00:02:38.900 I decided to take one for the team, so to speak, and stay home.

00:02:43.600 And that ended up being a really, really, really difficult transition.

00:02:46.560 I definitely felt like an imposter doing things like volunteering in my son's kindergarten classroom because I was like, these are all things that I'm supposed to do.

00:02:59.700 And yes, I'm so glad that I can do it.

00:03:03.200 But, you know, I don't feel necessarily that I'm great at it or will I eventually kind of grow into this role and really enjoy it?

00:03:13.220 loneliness loss of identity imposter syndrome a lack of career stability heard this story before

00:03:21.520 haven't we guys over and over and over again every time we talk to women and mothers who've

00:03:27.240 turned to social media and that's what jane did a friend of hers was like hey i think you might

00:03:33.320 get a kick out of tiktok so she downloaded and learned some of the dances that the kids

00:03:38.560 are doing these days and eventually she found mom talk everyone this is who is this

00:03:45.560 ella and kate kind of stumbled upon the whole mom niche content which was a lot of skits if

00:03:55.400 toddlers choreographed tiktok dances a lot of funny moments between moms and kids

00:04:02.960 Alex, who do you love more, mommy or mommy?

00:04:06.780 Daddy!

00:04:08.520 I felt like, oh, here are the users that are like me.

00:04:14.580 I think it was October where I went from like 80,000 followers to like 250,000 followers overnight because of one viral video.

00:04:26.880 Mommy?

00:04:27.300 Yeah?

00:04:29.480 Can you sit down, please? You're not done yet.

00:04:31.840 mommy yes do we still have some my husband was right next to me like peacefully eating his dinner

00:04:40.020 so i just looked at him like what you're right here why don't they say daddy you know and my

00:04:46.980 husband just kind of joked like oh that would be a good tiktok so i just flipped my phone open 0.95

00:04:51.640 um to the app and i started recording mommy uh what are you eating kimchi jigger do you want

00:05:00.540 taste no and then he notices my phone is on tiktok and then he says are you doing a tiktok

00:05:07.040 and then i kind of break my poker face and start cracking up

00:05:12.520 when i uploaded that video i didn't think anything of it i woke up to millions of views

00:05:23.480 Really, I had no goal of being a TikTok influencer or getting any kind of partnerships or opportunities from that.

00:05:34.460 But now I'm at a point where I am getting offers and opportunities to leverage this audience now.

00:05:46.500 What seemed like just some silly video helped Jane feel confident in herself again.

00:05:52.200 It helped her feel confident in her role as a woman and a mom, like she'd finally grown into this new iteration of herself.

00:06:01.400 I have a lot of friends who think, obviously, Jane, you want to go back into news or back to your news career.

00:06:09.800 And I'm like, no, because I think I've kind of evolved from that.

00:06:16.980 Jane got on TikTok a year ago at the start of the pandemic.

00:06:20.880 The early days when we all just thought we were going to be locked up for two weeks

00:06:24.380 and then life was going to return to normal.

00:06:30.020 She wasn't alone.

00:06:31.900 At the time when moms were thrown right into a pressure cooker, 0.95

00:06:34.620 a lot of women got on TikTok to soothe their souls 1.00

00:06:37.720 or try to find community in this brave, new, fucked-up world that we were all living in. 1.00

00:06:43.020 Some of those women became influencers. 0.91

00:06:45.440 Sound familiar?

00:06:46.340 history repeats itself my friend

00:06:50.660 when jane was getting into influencing i was just starting the first draft of the very first episode

00:06:58.300 of this show and when we were talking i couldn't help but get a little bit emotional about how we

00:07:04.020 were both trying to figure out our role as moms at the same time social media helped jane find her

00:07:10.540 voice and her identity again. It's also a business, and she makes good money doing it. 1.00

00:07:15.820 As we've learned in these last nine episodes, social media has helped a lot of women to find 1.00

00:07:21.380 community, find their identity, and to make some pretty nice cash. Cha-ching, my friends. Cha-fucking 1.00

00:07:28.680 ching. We've also learned that sometimes that comes with some nasty consequences and collateral 1.00

00:07:34.560 damage, but the one big thing that I'm taking away from this is that this world is not going

00:07:41.420 anywhere. All right, my friends, let's board a rocket ship and go into the future. What does

00:07:47.820 the future hold for this industry, for all of us? I'm Jo Piazza, and you know the drill by now.

00:07:58.740 Say it with me. We are all under the influence.

00:08:04.560 Episode 9.

00:08:08.840 Is this the end?

00:08:18.560 You've made it to episode 9.

00:08:21.140 Congratulations, my friends.

00:08:23.740 Snaps and claps. Snaps and claps.

00:08:26.340 This is our last episode of the season.

00:08:28.300 I'm sorry for that, but congratulations for making it here.

00:08:31.700 We've been reporting this series for just over a year.

00:08:34.560 And in that time, the influencing game has also completely changed.

00:08:39.300 Tech moves faster than we can keep up with, and there are new social platforms popping up almost every day.

00:08:45.940 Clubhouse. What the fuck? 1.00

00:08:49.520 And now, way more than when we started this series, mom influencers are finding success on TikTok. 0.99

00:08:55.640 And if you're wondering about the future of mom influencing, like I always am, MomTalk is going to be a very big part of it.

00:09:02.620 brands are already moving millions of influencing marketing dollars over to that platform. In fact,

00:09:09.080 I recently emailed Amber Venn's box from RewardStyle and she says they're also working

00:09:13.940 with influencers on TikTok. So everyone is always moving forward. Thinking about this is exhausting

00:09:20.700 and it's kind of scary. Once I finally get the hang of one platform and let's face it, fail at

00:09:26.740 trying to be an influencer on that platform, there's already a new one making me and my

00:09:30.480 profession totally irrelevant. So I guess I've got to get ahead of this game and learn how to be

00:09:36.080 a TikTok influencer. Do you see a pattern here? I'm doing the same thing and I'm expecting a

00:09:42.660 different outcome this time. That makes me certifiably insane. Well, from what I've seen 0.56

00:09:48.440 on TikTok so far, my craziness might actually fly there. My first viral TikTok, I did a trend

00:09:55.480 where you just kind of wiggled on screen

00:09:58.200 and you pointed to things on the screen

00:10:00.360 because TikTok allows you to caption things,

00:10:04.300 to add words.

00:10:05.600 It was over 100,000 views.

00:10:07.880 And for me-

00:10:09.680 For a wiggle?

00:10:10.440 You got 100,000 views for a while?

00:10:12.400 When we get off, should I go wiggle?

00:10:14.320 Or is that over?

00:10:15.720 Wiggle and pointing seems to be the thing. 0.99

00:10:17.840 And bathroom mirrors.

00:10:20.020 What do you do with bathroom mirrors?

00:10:22.140 You say things. 1.00

00:10:23.420 shut your fucking face i don't get it either that is gwenna latheland on tiktok she is known as 1.00

00:10:33.900 mama cusses as of this week she has around 850 000 followers on tiktok gwenna is hilarious 1.00

00:10:42.480 she's hilarious and raw and she curses even more than i do seriously she makes fun of herself and 1.00

00:10:49.420 her kids and her messy life. She's essentially the polar opposite of most successful mom influencers 0.99

00:10:54.840 on Instagram. She's got technicolor hair and neon eyeshadow, and her look is this far cry from the 1.00

00:11:02.180 young blonde Mormon mom influencers that we met in episode one. Now, the clean cut moms do exist 1.00

00:11:08.540 on TikTok, but on the talk, it is much easier to stumble upon a way more diverse group of moms. 0.85

00:11:17.820 Gwenna is a mom of three, and her oldest was 11 when her twins were born.

00:11:23.280 One of my first TikToks was me just trying to wrangle my twin, I think they were 16,

00:11:29.020 17 months old at the time, into my lap for a picture.

00:11:32.700 So getting those Instagram-worthy pictures is a lot.

00:11:38.840 And that was the first kind of moment where I was like, you know what?

00:11:42.700 I can do this.

00:11:44.200 I can normalize modern motherhood.

00:11:46.360 we can celebrate those Instagram-worthy moments. But can we also discuss that I'm covered in

00:11:53.100 carrot juice and I don't remember the last time I pooped by myself?

00:11:57.980 This right here. This is what I've been talking about for nine episodes now.

00:12:01.860 How can we normalize the messiness of motherhood? How can we get paid for that shit? 1.00

00:12:08.100 It doesn't feel like there is a huge place for that. Not on Instagram maybe, but not on branded 1.00

00:12:13.840 Instagram, not on the Instagram where you might make money from it. They want, they want perfect

00:12:18.460 brands. They don't like poop. I'm not sure that that's entirely true. I have brands that look at

00:12:26.260 everything that I do and they're like, yeah, we still want to work with you. We like the reality

00:12:31.320 because that's the thing is as social media continues to grow and evolve, when it first

00:12:36.960 started, it was Hollywood magic. We liked the legs on the beach shot, even though we know our

00:12:43.980 legs do not look like that and we're never going to make it to a fucking beach. Okay. So as of right 0.99

00:12:49.220 now, Gwenna does not make a full-time income on TikTok, but it is a solid side hustle and she's

00:12:55.080 working her way up. Hearing about Gwenna's work made me rethink everything that we already talked

00:13:00.620 about, about Instagram authenticity. I mean, now I'm kind of wondering, is the market actually

00:13:06.060 opening up for real and messy moms? And does that mean that I've got a chance? Of course, 0.99

00:13:12.120 I asked Gwenna about the logistics of this. What makes a good TikTok? TikTok is a whole

00:13:17.620 different beast as far as content creation goes. Because you do only have that, you have 60 seconds

00:13:23.040 and you've got an audience for 60 seconds and you have to catch them in the first 10 or they're

00:13:28.920 just going to scroll on because TikTok, like all the rest of them, have infinite scroll. It's never

00:13:33.400 going to stop. As long as your thumb can flick upward, you've got more and you don't have to

00:13:38.940 invest your precious 60 seconds in something that feels like shit to you. TikTok also has these new 0.97

00:13:45.560 functions that Instagram does not have, a whole new vocabulary. Gwen had told me about something

00:13:51.500 called, quote, duetting, and it doesn't have anything to do with swingers like I thought it

00:13:58.100 might duet is a tiktok function where uh you it puts up the original video and your added content

00:14:04.760 you're watching the original video and you have the opportunity to either add to or react to

00:14:10.180 in this side panel screen the other thing that helps a lot is getting a big creator

00:14:15.940 to uh to connect with you oh but you're a big creator and i just i am a big creator

00:14:23.100 Yep, you've connected to me.

00:14:25.460 Yeah, Gwena does not want to duet me.

00:14:29.380 Did you hear her tone?

00:14:30.340 It's the same tone that Tanya Naguera used

00:14:32.740 when she did not want to tell me too much about her comment pods

00:14:35.680 because no one really wants to let you into their sorority, Joe Piazza.

00:14:39.280 But I just kept hitting her with really annoying questions anyway.

00:14:43.680 And how important is music?

00:14:45.280 Because I'm wondering if I can exclusively only use ABBA songs.

00:14:49.120 yes you could uh you'll get seven followers um that's really niche

00:14:56.080 yeah that's really niche isn't it all right um okay god a part of me is like i'm so excited

00:15:04.460 and the other part of me is like how drunk am i gonna have to get tonight to try this

00:15:10.800 actually the drunker the better uh often if you're 420 friendly that helps too

00:15:14.780 So I plotted out my TikTok.

00:15:18.060 Much like my Instagram attempts, I wanted to be funny and relatable and real and, dare I say it, authentic.

00:15:27.540 So we're out at a cabin in the woods with our pandemic bubble friends having a Passover Seder.

00:15:33.560 It was so wonderful because all of our kids jumped on the trampoline, like, all day long.

00:15:37.480 I didn't have to parent, ever.

00:15:39.600 Anyway, so the kids begged me to jump on the trampoline.

00:15:42.720 And I did it.

00:15:43.500 I jumped.

00:15:44.780 And then I peed my pants. 1.00

00:15:47.180 Because two babies have come out of my vagina. 0.99

00:15:49.560 I'm not just telling you this story for fun. 0.99

00:15:51.440 I'm telling you because it made me think,

00:15:53.260 what is more real as a mom on TikTok

00:15:55.760 than peeing your pants on a trampoline?

00:15:58.180 I brought it up at the Seder.

00:16:00.720 Probably a pretty deep track for TikTok.

00:16:04.700 Right after we finish our Passover Seder,

00:16:07.400 we are going, I'm going to...

00:16:09.400 Wait, what are we doing after Passover Seder? 0.90

00:16:11.080 We're going to try, I'm going to try to break it.

00:16:14.780 I'm going to try to break TikTok with my video jumping on the trampoline after four glasses of wine.

00:16:20.020 So I put my glass of wine down on a log in the middle of the woods.

00:16:24.260 I put on some Mamma Mia and I bounced.

00:16:29.840 Now, of course, this should be the part of the episode where I play you the TikTok video.

00:16:35.860 But I cannot do that because I cannot legally play you any Mamma Mia.

00:16:39.400 So you will just have to go to my TikTok.

00:16:41.980 Trust me, I can use the views.

00:16:43.400 627 people watched that video no one liked it gwenna did not choose to duet me

00:16:51.780 i still want to understand the benefit of all this labor gwenna connected me to another one

00:16:58.540 of her mom talk friends i am tori phantom i have three little kids and i spend a whole lot of time

00:17:06.000 on tiktok i do a few things there and it's very much family lifestyle centered tori's yet another

00:17:13.320 mom who turned to TikTok to get through the worst moments of the pandemic. Oh, I want to let you

00:17:18.100 know that Tori uses they, them pronouns. So those are the pronouns we're going to use in this

00:17:22.700 episode. 20 years after moms blogged away their loneliness, people like Tori and Gwenna have been

00:17:28.880 TikToking away their loneliness. But I cannot stress enough how powerful it is to find your

00:17:35.480 community like this. A really fun part of this is just the networking alone and meeting these people

00:17:41.680 who I never would have had the opportunity to otherwise.

00:17:46.140 And I mean, even Gwena, who you spoke with,

00:17:49.660 I mean, her and I, in what world would we have met?

00:17:52.040 And now we're such great friends.

00:17:53.520 And it's such a cool thing

00:17:55.400 that we can share this experience of being influencers

00:17:58.980 and have someone who gets it to talk to you about it.

00:18:02.840 In Tori's first year on TikTok,

00:18:04.520 they've been able to grow a really strong following

00:18:07.060 in a short amount of time.

00:18:09.200 They have a little over a million followers,

00:18:11.080 get regular brand deals, and signed with a talent agency.

00:18:15.660 They also already have a deal to write a cookbook.

00:18:18.320 All of that in one year.

00:18:21.180 But the good news is they feel like they're just getting started.

00:18:25.280 I would say it is becoming a business.

00:18:27.980 I am in the beginning of that.

00:18:31.060 Joining social media has totally changed my life.

00:18:35.000 I am planning to grow into a real business

00:18:38.540 where social media will be more of a vehicle for a business than just me posting content and having

00:18:46.400 fun. Because I think the thing with being an influencer is there is money in that, which is

00:18:52.320 great. But for me, it feels like something that isn't super stable or reliable because it's the

00:18:58.660 internet. We watch social media platforms come and go all the time. And as I am a mom nearing 30

00:19:05.880 with three children, I'm like, okay, well, I need to find a way to turn this into something

00:19:11.140 reliable, where instead of counting on brand deals, I'm really counting on myself. And so

00:19:16.420 I'm really in the beginnings of that, but I have a lot of faith in myself that I'm going to be able

00:19:20.660 to turn this into something more. Tori's so smart. Focusing on one platform doesn't make sense.

00:19:28.080 Right now, people who are successful on social media should take all of the money and run with

00:19:32.760 it. Just take it all. Take it all while it is still available, while that platform still exists.

00:19:38.400 Influencing means becoming your own brand. And when you become a brand, you constantly have to

00:19:42.960 innovate. It makes sense to me as a reporter and a writer, but the truth is, constantly innovating

00:19:51.500 is exhausting. I've worked for so many media companies that just fucking disappeared overnight. 0.93

00:19:57.520 I found out my job at Yahoo was over because I got a text message while climbing Mount Kilimanjaro on my honeymoon. 0.84

00:20:04.460 Yep, they're like, sorry, happy honeymoon. 0.99

00:20:07.380 You don't have a job when you get home from Africa. 0.99

00:20:11.380 And Yahoo was like this stupid hybrid of tech and media. 0.99

00:20:14.460 And tech, like media, is just constantly changing. 0.98

00:20:17.780 And that means that even though these creators are making money, they still need some kind of safety net.

00:20:23.340 No matter how savvy they are, everyone needs a safety net.

00:20:26.180 I'm not the only one that thinks this.

00:20:28.500 There's very smart people out there

00:20:29.980 who know that influencers are the future of content.

00:20:33.280 And they're investing in them too.

00:20:35.720 We'll hear from them after the break.

00:20:50.900 Back in February, SAG-AFTRA, 0.95

00:20:53.380 that's Hollywood's biggest union.

00:20:54.640 They represent actors and television and radio artists.

00:20:58.420 They announced that they would be letting influencers into the fold, just like any other commercial performer.

00:21:05.520 Once in the union, influencers would be eligible for things like pension and health benefits, all based off the earnings they make as an influencer.

00:21:13.580 Why, you may ask?

00:21:15.200 Because SAG-AFTRA recognized that this, this right here, is the future of content.

00:21:20.500 I think it's going to be an embracing of a whole new way of storytelling that will become

00:21:27.880 ageless and we want to make sure that those individuals even though they might be starting

00:21:32.520 for one thing if they decide to really pursue this as an ongoing profession or a form of

00:21:38.540 expression that they can do it with a sense of safety and dignity and excitement right we want

00:21:44.580 to give them the ability to love what they do and not feel that they're compromising when they're

00:21:49.580 doing it. I called the president of the SAG-AFTRA union, by the way, because that's what I do.

00:21:54.980 I call the people who are doing the things. I'm Gabrielle Carteris. I'm a mom, an actor,

00:22:00.460 and I'm a president of SAG-AFTRA. I've been a big fan of Gabrielle's since I was in middle school,

00:22:06.240 back when she played Andrea Zuckerman on Beverly Hills 90210.

00:22:13.000 Which, by the way, was my high school boyfriend Kurt's favorite show. He had every episode on

00:22:17.980 VHS. And one time I lost the episode where Kelly and Dylan hooked up while Brenda was in France,

00:22:22.780 and he didn't talk to me for like a month. Anyway, I called Gabrielle to ask her why

00:22:26.860 SAG-AFTRA made this decision, the big decision to bring influencers, independent creators into

00:22:32.440 their fold. Influencers, we like to call them independent creators. And it's not just bringing

00:22:38.800 independent creators within our union. We actually have a lot of our members doing that work. It's a

00:22:44.460 booming part of our industry when you think about it. Brands recognize it, particularly through this

00:22:51.840 pandemic. People have really discovered the ability that they're able to use technology

00:22:58.060 and to become independent creators. As a union, it's really important for us to be nimble.

00:23:03.180 Truth is, because we are a part of an evolving industry, it's very important that we evolve with

00:23:09.040 it. Gabrielle, I kind of want to call her Gabby, by the way, but I don't think we're close enough

00:23:13.820 yet. Gabrielle was quick to tell me that a lot of actors and the talent that they're already

00:23:18.820 working with are already doing influencer work, but they also want to bring this new generation

00:23:25.080 of content creators into the fold. People who are doing this independent creators work or this

00:23:30.380 influencer work, they need to have representation there. It's like the wild, wild west out there.

00:23:36.160 There's a benefit for the brands and it's important for the person who's creating to

00:23:40.920 also have those benefits. We want to make sure they have protections. As a person who's doing

00:23:45.120 this kind of work, all you have is yourself. So we want to make sure to protect your image

00:23:50.580 so that as you storytell and you go and move on, that they have the protections that they need,

00:23:56.140 that they can make a living at what they're doing, and that they are able to work with

00:24:00.700 dignity and not to be exploited. I was getting fired up during this call

00:24:07.180 with all the talk about protecting workers and treating influencers like the serious content

00:24:12.060 creators that they are. See, whenever I pitch this podcast to editors, when I ask them to write

00:24:17.300 about me and to give me press, it gets dismissed as a parenting story. But it's not a parenting

00:24:22.820 story. Mom influencers are a business story. And it's a huge relief that Gabrielle and SAG-AFTRA

00:24:29.740 are treating it like a business. Now, like any business, there are contracts and requirements

00:24:35.900 that people would need to fulfill.

00:24:39.020 So the contract that we've established

00:24:40.960 will be something that is in its success

00:24:43.740 will start to evolve

00:24:44.920 and really encapture more and more protections.

00:24:48.100 But initially, if somebody is able

00:24:49.820 to even work under this contract,

00:24:51.200 that actually allows them to also pay

00:24:53.020 into a pension and health plan,

00:24:54.680 which really is meaningful for people.

00:24:57.580 This is a safety net.

00:25:00.300 And you know who needs a safety net? 0.94

00:25:02.220 Creators, particularly mom creators.

00:25:05.900 And so you're talking about moms who are doing this work, which is kind of exciting. I just love that women are constantly, and I say this, I know everybody does it, but it is really true. Women are constantly reinventing themselves in different ways. And I'm so proud, you know, to hear that.

00:25:25.260 I just love hearing moms doing this because it's, I know it might be something that they're

00:25:29.240 trying to do to earn money, but also it becomes a form of expression for them, right?

00:25:34.240 That ability to tell a story and to know that somebody has their back is great.

00:25:41.320 Gabrielle's excitement was like palpable during our call.

00:25:43.840 I could feel it.

00:25:45.060 It was maybe even bigger than my excitement during the high school graduation episode

00:25:49.160 of 90210.

00:25:50.520 Gabrielle wants influencers to call them.

00:25:52.420 I hope that people follow and look into being a part of this. Call the union if you have questions. And we look forward to celebrating and really lifting up all the individuals who want to have the opportunity to be able to do this work under a protected universe.

00:26:10.200 we want to be there for them and I'm excited I just I love the idea that we're being nimble

00:26:14.980 that we're really paying attention to the industry as it transforms and that we are

00:26:21.940 creating a space for people I love it I love it too Gabby I'm gonna I'm just gonna call her Gabby 0.99

00:26:29.340 I hope she's okay with that influencing mom influencing this is a fucking business it's a 0.99

00:26:35.620 business motherfuckers, and I love the people that treat it like one. When I first started 0.99

00:26:40.300 this podcast, I was worried that a lot of mom influencers would hate it, that they would

00:26:45.500 hate me. And some people do, because some people hate everything. But a lot of them

00:26:50.920 have written to me and said, thanks. Thanks for seeing me. Thanks for reporting on what

00:26:56.880 I do like it matters. As this profession gets more and more formalized, I know that I need

00:27:04.060 to make a decision. The decision that all of you have been waiting nine episodes for.

00:27:09.120 I gotta figure out my own future. My own path forward. And so, for the last time this season,

00:27:15.780 I am going to call Glimus. Oh, hi. I'm good. What are you banging on? Don't bang.

00:27:24.340 No, I'm taking the volume down so you don't make me deaf.

00:27:27.940 Because I'm loud. No, I just have the volume up, I think.

00:27:30.480 I really want to know like how do you feel right now

00:27:35.520 it's so nice when someone asks you how you feel not how are you doing how do you feel

00:27:45.060 tell me how you feel I would I'd like to replace how are you doing with how do you feel I think

00:27:50.620 it's a better it's just a better question so I'm going to drop the bomb right now I'm just gonna

00:27:56.140 boom this is gonna be a bomb on me too i don't know this i don't want to be a mom influencer

00:28:01.220 oh i do know that yeah no no it's done it's not it's done because for my self-care i need to

00:28:08.920 separate work and personal i need a separation and i i did not have that through all of my 20s

00:28:15.280 and most of my early 30s because i was a reporter and news breaks all the time yeah now i need to

00:28:22.920 separate my work life from my personal life. And if my kids and my family are part of my work life,

00:28:26.940 I cannot do that. So I do not want to be a mob influencer. I respect the hell out of them.

00:28:32.100 I don't want to do it. Do you want to keep going as Joe, the reporter? And this is an and or

00:28:37.700 question. And or do you want to explore some of these other avenues as an influencer? Essentially

00:28:45.200 what it feels like is like there's an influencer for every niche. I mean, here's the trap we all

00:28:51.280 go down. It's definitely more enjoyable to be a cottage influencer than a mom influencer. But

00:28:56.480 then I have this feeling like if we explored it, it would be an endless nightmare of, do these

00:29:03.000 wooden hinges fit together correctly and how is the pillow thrown? But I don't know. Was there

00:29:07.220 anything about exploring being an influencer yourself that made you think, oh, I'd be okay

00:29:14.660 doing this if the subject matter was shifted slightly? I don't know. I know that I want to

00:29:22.460 keep experimenting in this world. I want to keep going. If I want to be a storyteller in the world,

00:29:28.500 then I need to figure out how to use these platforms. And I also think there's so much

00:29:32.480 money on the table. And we've said this before, I love money and I love making money. So maybe

00:29:36.980 you're right. Maybe I'm a cottage cabin influencer. This clearly is the future of where content is

00:29:42.620 going, whether we like it or not. And so it's either evolve as a storyteller or don't be a

00:29:48.880 storyteller anymore. I genuinely believe that. You are such a storyteller that I am extremely

00:29:56.380 curious to see, because you have such good instincts, where these instincts point you next.

00:30:03.520 I have a sweater for your cottage influencing Instagram that I bought for you. So let's like

00:30:10.680 see you in the country, maybe. I don't know. But I think that there is still room for me in the

00:30:16.260 influencer space, not as a mom influencer, especially because I don't think that I can

00:30:21.460 do that. I'm out of the baby phase now. I don't think that I can be a mom influencer unless I

00:30:26.260 have more kids. But my period is late again. So pregnancy or early menopause?

00:30:35.400 Well, you could be a menopause influencer. Menopause is certainly the hottest topic.

00:30:39.060 You could be a menopause influencer.

00:30:40.940 That's the next thing.

00:30:42.320 I don't think women of our generation are going quietly. 0.98

00:30:44.940 So this disappearing after 45 is going to be, I think, menopause influencers.

00:30:52.260 Maybe that's it, Jo.

00:30:53.260 Guys, would you listen to a podcast from a menopause influencer?

00:30:58.300 You know the answer is yes.

00:30:59.920 I fully believe you could be a paramenopause influencer if that's what you wanted.

00:31:04.200 Or a cottage influencer.

00:31:05.720 Or a cottage influencer.

00:31:06.660 I have faith in you

00:31:09.900 alright guys

00:31:11.180 stay tuned

00:31:12.420 stay tuned my friends

00:31:15.000 should we close out with some ABBA

00:31:16.660 absolutely

00:31:17.660 it's the name of the game

00:31:20.480 it's the name of the game

00:31:22.600 or money money money

00:31:24.820 yeah or

00:31:27.080 mamma mia

00:31:28.080 mamma mia here I go again

00:31:30.740 my my

00:31:31.880 how can I resist you

00:31:33.920 and curtain down and scene

00:31:39.000 but wait hey are you guys still here it's not over how could it be over there is still so much

00:31:54.840 that we have not covered we haven't talked about adoption influencers or lgbtq influencers

00:32:00.260 or celebrity influencers.

00:32:03.060 Yes, the celebrities who make way more money

00:32:06.080 influencing you to buy things

00:32:07.520 than they do doing TV or movies or music.

00:32:10.500 We can't end yet.

00:32:12.360 Someone is going to have to drag me kicking

00:32:13.700 and screaming out of my closet.

00:32:15.340 I want to keep going.

00:32:18.080 So if we're all going to stay under the influence,

00:32:20.640 there's a few things we need to get straight.

00:32:22.940 We need to demand fair wages for all influencers.

00:32:27.120 We need to hold social media platforms to task.

00:32:30.260 for making billions off influencer content.

00:32:33.620 If all of the men in all of the ivory towers of Silicon Valley 0.99

00:32:37.060 are making billions from the women who are producing the content, 1.00

00:32:41.620 then the women should be making a lot of money too.

00:32:44.760 This reminds me of a time in Iceland back in 1975.

00:32:49.340 You didn't think we were going to go to Iceland in 1975, did you?

00:32:52.520 But here we are. 0.99

00:32:53.220 On October 24th, 1975, 90% of women in Iceland went on strike. 1.00

00:33:01.600 They didn't do housework, they didn't buy anything, 1.00

00:33:04.200 they didn't participate in the economy, 0.99

00:33:06.040 and they shut it all the fuck down. 0.89

00:33:09.920 People in Iceland still look back on that day 0.90

00:33:12.220 as the day the entire country started paying better attention to women

00:33:16.260 and the work that they do. 1.00

00:33:18.020 Imagine if all of us went off social media for just one day.

00:33:23.220 We would destroy it.

00:33:24.640 We would destroy the entire system.

00:33:29.400 Maybe that's something we should do in season two.

00:33:33.120 Now, of course, I don't know yet

00:33:34.720 if we are deemed influential enough to have a season two.

00:33:38.600 Are my bosses listening?

00:33:40.380 So there's one last thing I do want to address.

00:33:43.260 It is you.

00:33:44.600 You, my listener.

00:33:46.280 You, my favorite people.

00:33:47.860 My favorite people in the whole world.

00:33:49.820 The audience.

00:33:50.440 and, I assume, the audience of lots of the influencers we've talked to this season.

00:33:55.840 I want to make sure that you guys are protected too.

00:33:59.900 I want to protect you all from the deep, dark vortex of social media. 0.97

00:34:04.200 Now, I would be a total asshole if I left you guys out of my quest 0.98

00:34:08.420 for total social media happiness. 0.99

00:34:11.420 You deserve to be happy.

00:34:13.200 So I'm going to leave us all with a little lesson

00:34:14.940 about how we can approach Instagram in a way that makes us all a little happier.

00:34:20.440 I often get asked this question about whether or not Instagram makes us happier or does it decrease our happiness.

00:34:26.780 That is Dr. Lori Santos.

00:34:29.020 She runs the most popular course in the history of Yale University.

00:34:32.860 Yeah, the most popular course in the history of Yale.

00:34:36.020 That class, Psychology and the Good Life, is essentially Happiness 101.

00:34:41.460 Lori also has a spectacular podcast called The Happiness Lab,

00:34:44.320 and I was very lucky to get her to give us a mini course on how to be happier while we use social media.

00:34:50.940 Instagram doesn't make us as happy as we think.

00:34:53.060 I think a big one is social comparison.

00:34:56.120 You know, and so that negative social comparison, the research shows, can really affect our happiness.

00:34:59.900 So if we're constantly bombarded by individuals who are, you know, seem richer than us or better looking than us or have cooler jobs than us, you know, that can sometimes negatively affect our happiness.

00:35:10.880 One of my favorite pieces of advice comes from a journalist, Catherine Price, who I interviewed on my podcast, The Happiness Lab.

00:35:16.660 She mentioned that if we really want to interact well with social media, Instagram, and other tools, we need to ask ourselves a mindful question.

00:35:25.600 She even gives us an acronym for the questions we should ask ourselves.

00:35:28.680 She calls it WWW.

00:35:31.100 What for?

00:35:34.020 Why now?

00:35:36.760 And what else?

00:35:40.500 So what did I hop on Instagram for?

00:35:42.060 Maybe I specifically wanted to make a post or really wanted to check a specific post on Instagram.

00:35:46.660 maybe I was feeling bored or anxious. Maybe I was feeling lonely, right? You know, when you ask the

00:35:51.300 what for question, you can really try to assess whether or not you're getting on Instagram for

00:35:56.080 the right reasons. Then you ask the why now, right? And that's kind of being mindful about

00:36:01.100 what drives you to Instagram. Is it because you're feeling curious and excited about what

00:36:05.100 you're going to see? Or maybe it's because you're feeling bored or anxious or you're not in a good

00:36:09.580 space, right? You know, why are you going on there now? And then the most important question is what

00:36:14.980 else, right? You know, we can spend, you know, hours on Instagram, right? What else could you

00:36:19.720 be doing with that time? What's the opportunity cost of you using Instagram? I think all of these

00:36:26.000 tools can potentially improve our happiness if we use them in the right way. And if we're mindful

00:36:30.980 that we tend to be using them in ways that are building us up rather than depleting us.

00:36:37.780 I don't want to be depleted. I want to enjoy my life. I want my cup to runneth so full

00:36:43.960 that I pee on the trampoline.

00:36:47.580 Lori's suggestions were so good.

00:36:50.200 But now every time that I open Instagram,

00:36:52.480 I'm like, why am I doing this?

00:36:54.420 And most of the time the answer is

00:36:56.080 I'm doing this out of habit.

00:36:58.040 I had absolutely zero reason to be here.

00:37:01.880 And you know what?

00:37:02.860 It's making me happier.

00:37:04.120 I'm off the social media way more

00:37:06.480 than I was when we started this podcast.

00:37:08.580 And I like my life a little better.

00:37:10.460 And I think my kids like my life a little better too.

00:37:13.960 They're happy that I'm not taking pictures of them all the time.

00:37:17.020 In fact, Charlie has started taking pictures of all of us.

00:37:20.220 So maybe it's really Charlie who's going to be the influencer here.

00:37:24.160 He keeps telling me he's going to be an artist.

00:37:26.760 Hey, Charlie.

00:37:28.100 What do you want to be when you grow up?

00:37:30.300 Only an artist!

00:37:33.160 Only an artist?

00:37:34.480 Yeah.

00:37:35.760 You're a beautiful artist.

00:37:37.040 Do you take good pictures?

00:37:39.920 You take...

00:37:42.040 so guys I'm signing off for now I really am this is over yeah but you know late at night when I'm

00:37:56.480 hiding in my bathroom or trying to poop without my kids banging down the door I will still be on

00:38:01.400 the gram I am always under the influence and always thinking about all of the things that

00:38:06.420 come with that. And I love knowing that all of you are too. That we're all in this together.

00:38:14.060 That is some community building bitches. Thank you for joining me on this journey. 0.96

00:38:24.020 Under the Influence is reported and hosted by me, Joe Piazza. Our story editor is Glynis

00:38:30.160 McNichol. Emily Marinoff is our producer. Sound design by Emily Marinoff and Jackie

00:38:35.360 Huntington. Our theme and additional music was composed by Jessica Kreinchich. Mixing done by

00:38:41.020 Jackie Huntington and additional research conducted by Jocelyn Sears. Julian Weller is our consulting

00:38:46.420 producer and Manga Shatikador is our executive producer and a grand wizard. Special thanks to

00:38:53.240 you, to you, our audience, because you've all been fucking rock stars. Thank you to all of you for 0.97

00:38:58.500 sharing this, for reviewing this, for telling literally people, strangers that you've met on

00:39:04.180 the street to listen to this podcast. Keep it coming, guys. I'm not going to tell you to stop.

00:39:07.720 Keep going. We are influential. That's what we are. And special thanks to my husband, Nick,

00:39:13.060 and my children for, you know, giving me this idea in the first place and driving me so crazy

00:39:19.520 that I became addicted to Instagram. And finally, for those of you who are curious,

00:39:25.700 yes, I still despise Julia Roberts. Goodbye and goodnight, my friends.

00:39:34.180 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - April 15, 2021

Is This The End？

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