00:02:24.100About MAGA beauty, because it's been something I've actually been reporting on for a while now
00:02:29.300and thinking about. It is very specific. And as you wrote in your headline, it seems meant to go
00:02:35.900viral. It is meant for a very visual and very digital age.
00:02:41.200Yeah. So I had been thinking it for a long time, too. And it started the idea really started crystallizing with that horrible piece of propaganda that Christine Noem put out of, you know, she is completely made up and has the perfect Utah curls in front of a jail cell full of shirtless prisoners.
00:03:06.600And it's a horrifying image. And it's honestly sort of like porn adjacent in terms of viral imagery and, you know, the vernacular of the digital age.
00:03:19.760And so that really started to crystallize the look for me because part of the virality is that you are having this very feminine, very extreme version of an influencer look like a very feminine straight jacket kind of beauty.
00:03:41.180Yes. And you are juxtaposing it with a very brutal message, whether that is a verbal message that is very aggressive and brutal or a visual message like with that Kristi Noem photo op, which, again, I just I was aghast and I remain aghast.
00:04:06.520And as someone who lives inside social media and has been reporting on it for so long,
00:04:11.760you know, it is something that the algorithm favors to such an extent that you know that
00:04:17.500you're going to go viral, that you will get shown to more people.
00:04:21.300If you are a woman who has, you know, perfectly blown out barrel curls, a certain kind of0.93
00:04:27.540makeup, incredibly taut skin, massive eyelashes that look like they could reach out and tickle0.99
00:04:33.300you. It's the influencer look, and that is what these platforms like. They code for them. We know
00:04:41.040that. And conservative women have been very good at immediately adopting this. As you write in your1.00
00:04:48.360piece, you talked to an expert, a sociologist, who says there's no single look that immediately
00:04:55.040identifies a woman as liberal in the same way as this does in the current system right and it's you
00:05:01.080know i think if you want to give trump some credit um he is a genius marketer you can't see a red hat
00:05:09.000now without thinking that person is oh my god i flinched i flinched i saw one the other day um at
00:05:16.260like a kid's school event and i'm like it's not it's not is it and i'm like just the phillies
00:05:19.640when living in philly it's real fraud okay we got a lot of red hats here right and so having this
00:05:24.560visual vernacular that before anything comes out of their mouth, you already know what team they're
00:05:30.800playing for. And that's really powerful. And that when it when people's attention spans are so short
00:05:37.340and when, you know, there is just so much information coming at us all at once, having this
00:05:42.580sort of uniform message and look helps spread the message further. And I don't think Democrats or
00:05:53.540liberals should be chasing the same thing. I think it is somewhat antithetical to the entire
00:06:00.220ethos, which, you know, in my mind should be like, all are welcome. Like it doesn't,
00:06:08.400there is not one kind of femininity or masculinity. So I think it's difficult,
00:06:13.940but it's hard to argue that they're, the uniformity of their look is not effective.
00:06:19.020It's effective. It's effective. It's branding and marketing.
00:06:21.640Exactly. And that's that's what it is. They know that they're going to get more eyeballs on it. They also know that our our eyeballs have been trained over the past four to five years of Instagram saturation to think that this is beautiful, even if I mean, objectively, I go back and I'm like, it's so much.
00:06:39.680everyone looks like you know jocelyn wildenstein on steroids at this point but yeah and when you've
00:06:46.120been told this is pretty have you seen i mean living in new york city i see a lot of influencers
00:06:51.200in the wild especially when you're um in soho and like they look insane in person just the
00:06:58.660contouring like alone it just in person is not human no but it plays really well on the camera
00:07:09.060to the extent that when I spend time with some of my influencer friends,
00:07:14.160they tell me to do more if I want to sell more books.
00:07:17.580They're like, you need more foundation.
00:07:19.440You've got to do your eyebrows and your eyelashes
00:07:37.660And she I really mean, I'm like, you should go to grad school and get a PhD because I feel I said I ran into her at a party in D.C.
00:07:46.660Yeah. Subsec party after White House Correspondents dinner.0.95
00:07:50.340And I told her the exact same thing. Yeah.
00:07:52.620No, no, no. She's brilliant. And I think I didn't make it into the piece.1.00
00:07:57.740There was a whole section about track. Let's let's tell people who she is.
00:08:00.880Oh, Suzanne Lambert is a content creator and comedian who lives in D.C.
00:08:04.640And she coined the term Republican makeup. And I quote her in my piece describing the look. And let's pull up exactly what she said, because I will not do it justice in my own.
00:08:20.420Because what she says is perfect. It's perfect. The term, the description, matte and flat really stuck with me.
00:08:32.340So she said the Republican makeup specifically is matte and flat, thick eyebrows and lashes, dark eyeliner on the top and bottom libs, a bold lip, lots of bronzer.
00:08:43.100And this is the direct quote, inappropriate unless you're on a pageant stage.
00:08:46.820And in that case, I'd still do it differently, which I've loved.
00:12:10.360And so the way that this look is in conversation with a lot of the lawmaking and panic in the Republican Party around trans issues, I think it's all of a piece.
00:16:14.400And I was going to just write a quick blog post, you know, kind of needling her on that.
00:16:20.020But it really turned into something else.
00:16:22.560And as also, and I say this in this piece, but I'm also at an age, at 37, when I'm, you know, I haven't done Botox or, you know, fillers yet, but it's certainly on my mind.
00:16:37.700Of course it is. Of course it is. Yeah.
00:16:39.180So I wanted to also enter, you know, this topic, not with like a judgmental point of view, because it's, you know, who am I to really say that this is over the top? You know, even though that's actually that is what I think, you know, I didn't really want to play the arbiter of that.
00:17:00.740But, you know, I think there is a really crucial difference in, like, you know, the way I may be considering these same procedures and their embrace of these procedures to, you know, as they rise in power.
00:17:16.160Yeah. I mean, I love what you wrote where you said, call it girl boss logic with a MAGA facelift, which we're talking about a literal facelift.0.53
00:17:27.560this look is unlike anything else that i've i've really seen and it is a look it's everyone is
00:17:35.280starting to look exactly the same and i will call a spade a spade i think that they were prettier
00:17:41.780before because they looked like real human beings before and that there is a certain level of plastic0.58
00:17:46.620surgery that makes you look come like a cyber cyber doll and these women are starting to look1.00
00:17:54.080like that. And I think it also has something to do with the fact that the right is trying to0.98
00:17:59.620rebrand femininity in the male gaze. Absolutely. When you consider the right's, you know,
00:18:08.480efforts to really go back to very strict, conservative, old ideas of what gender is,
00:18:17.080you know, and they're pushing that in policy. And, you know, you can't help but see that it mirrors0.55
00:18:22.640also now their physical appearance so even though I cannot say and I have no idea like what is in
00:18:29.740their mind why they have made what I think are these choices and these decisions to make these
00:18:35.560enhancements or whatever you know they do appear to me to be kind of the signal of membership that
00:18:43.800I am like you and that I am trying to appeal to an audience of one primarily but also like within
00:18:52.380within this movement to get women and men to look a certain way and it it is not androgynous at all
00:19:02.480you know when i think of like what the left looks like if there is a look um you know i would i would
00:19:08.460say it's more gender fluid this is a hard conversation to have right because we've also
00:19:13.700i would say in progressive circles in the media as women we have been trained for the past 10 years
00:19:21.580or so, to not comment on other women's faces, to not talk about other women's bodies as
00:19:48.280I'm not trying to be overly critical of anyone's appearance, but at the same time, something dystopian, something very weird is happening on the right. And that's that's so you're exactly kind of hitting that balance that I tried to get at.
00:20:05.700Well, no, I think you're hitting it really well. And one of the things that I kept thinking about
00:20:10.000when I was reading your piece, too, was the fact that for so long, as women trying to climb the
00:20:17.000ranks in male-dominated fields, in the corporate field, in the political spectrum, we tried to
00:20:23.340dress and be like men. You know, we wore these power suits and, you know, toned down our makeup.
00:20:30.800We weren't going to wear red lipstick in the newsroom.
00:20:33.840And this is the opposite of that in almost every way.
00:20:39.280And it also reminds me, I used to go on Fox News a lot.
00:21:59.880Like, anytime, I will say, anytime I criticize anything about this administration or about trad wives generally, I get all of their trolls saying, you are ugly.1.00
00:22:17.120I have gotten F'd plenty in my life right yeah I I just think yeah that kind of I want a question
00:22:24.460I actually don't even know if it made it in here I was what I was asking myself you know 20 years
00:22:30.100from now is your face going to be enough evidence to show like how you voted back in like 2024
00:22:37.420for like is it is I don't I maybe that's going too far but there does seem to be a distinct
00:22:46.220shift and it's strange to me um I think I also mentioned like that I've traveled to South Korea
00:22:54.080a bunch my parents from there um and going there as someone who's never had plastic surgery in
00:22:59.040sort of the you know plastic surgery capital oh yeah they're like what's what's wrong with you0.98
00:23:03.460Why haven't you started this, you crazy lady?0.99
00:23:06.580I am probably very ugly in their eyes.0.97
00:23:09.340And it's it's a weird thing to experience because I don't I don't feel that way every day when I'm out here.0.91
00:23:17.900No, I think you're hot. You were you were damn hot, girl.0.92
00:23:20.380But it's just, you know, being you know, if I were to like just land that CPAC or whatever, just parachute in, they'd probably it would be clear that I didn't belong.
00:23:29.140But it's like, is your it's strange that the way my face is, is enough, you know, aside from the fact that I am Asian and, you know, a person of color, you know, like I just my makeup and my lack of plastic surgery and enhancements is telling enough that I didn't vote for Trump and that I am maybe a mole.
00:23:51.580And I just think that's fascinating. And at the same time, and I really wanted to drive this home into peace. It is so strange that these this this physical transformation is all happening against the backdrop of, you know, insane government and cruel government and regressive in gender policy. It's it's it's very weird.
00:24:17.360It's very telling. It's very telling. And like I said, for me, it is so much about how they're trying to rebrand, quote unquote, femininity. They're trying to rebrand what feminism is. They're saying that the left's version of feminism failed. And sure, it did in a lot of ways. But they're also saying that outward appearances matter so much more than anything else.
00:24:40.260And it's not just the wives and the officials.
00:24:44.400All of their influencers, too, have this same look.1.00
00:24:49.000It's a lot of fillers, which I want to grab these girls, you know, by the elbow and be like, those fillers do not do you any favors in the long run.0.66
00:25:32.340And it is a look that they're definitely, it is the way to be a part of their club.
00:25:36.360And also, if you look at some of the Turning Point USA rallies, like the big, you know, Alex Clark conventions that she's doing, those young women all look very similar, too.
00:25:50.600And it is, like, it scares me because everyone is looking so similar.
00:25:58.080My husband, I swear to God, he has face blindness.0.63
00:26:00.300Like, he can't tell anyone apart, right?
00:26:01.880But he like legit cannot tell anyone in the Trump administration apart at this point.
00:27:16.960It doesn't, you know, I think they are accurate when they say they do have like a very, it might be record-breaking number of women in their administration, but that, you know, it feels very like tokenism.
00:27:32.120It feels not, like, what does that matter when, I mean, it doesn't matter when also you're rolling back, right?
00:27:40.800No, exactly. Exactly. And they're creating a very uniform way for women to look that, you know, you were so good about, you know, not necessarily going beyond the face in the in the piece, but I will absolutely talk about the tits of it all.
00:27:56.100OK, so there are a lot of boobs going on here at the same time as they're rolling back all rights for women and saying that women that women's highest role is in the home as a wife and a mother.
00:28:12.400And so this this to me is almost a new June Cleaver faced.
00:28:16.240Hmm. Yeah, it's strange, too, because, you know, they you know, this is, you know, there's Christian nationalism like threads here.0.76
00:28:26.100you know they're not exactly oh what's that show the the gemstones what is that called oh the
00:28:34.020righteous gemstones yes i i've watched a few episodes the first season but i kind of think
00:28:39.140of that where it's like garish and like you don't you wouldn't think that so-called christians maybe
00:28:44.460would would would choose this certain oh yeah but no these aren't these are these aren't jesus
00:28:50.620christian right right right i mean i'm not an expert in any of that but yeah i'm weird i i
00:28:57.380weirdly have a master's in religious studies so always happy to go there yeah strange facts about
00:29:01.600me i mean yeah so but it's like but you know it probably doesn't matter to that movement because0.96
00:29:07.420they are getting rid of abortion they they you know they don't care trans people they hate gay0.60
00:29:12.840people so it doesn't matter like what they weirdly hate drag queens even the drag queens have been0.99
00:29:19.440doing this kind of makeup for so fucking long right yeah um i it's just it feels contradictory
00:29:26.780to us but i think in the movement within maga it it does all make sense and um i don't think0.83
00:29:36.000they are concerned with with what we see as hypocrisy no not at all not at all they're not
00:29:41.320concerned with they could care less yeah what we can't what we say about anything and again if we
00:29:46.880say it especially on social media with our face attached to it they're gonna call us um homely
00:29:51.500fat trolls who are just jealous right um which is extraordinary um in itself and i i do wonder
00:30:01.380but i think when you're that deep in like whatever i don't know if true inner self-reflection is
00:30:09.100possible but 20 years from now i don't know when you're looking in the mirror i i i i wonder just
00:30:16.040what kind of reflection analysis is possible um i i think i started a newsletter promoting this uh
00:30:25.460i did a little newsletter entry from mother jones but i started off with like can you imagine
00:30:30.720cutting up your face for donald trump um like a little like and i have again i don't i don't want
00:30:37.060to get into like legal waters i don't know if that's the case i don't know if they did they0.55
00:30:41.780have actually gone under the knife i don't know if they did it to please out front but that is the
00:30:46.160question that loomed over me as i was writing this this entire time and i don't know there's
00:30:52.640something i it's not something i necessarily even want to like make fun of i just or even judge as
00:30:57.900in sad it's just i think there we're at a new political era where you know it's like i said
00:31:03.800this the boundaries of celebrity and like political policy are just there is no boundary
00:31:11.500It feels very wacky. And I think what we can also say is that because there are no boundaries between the political and the celebrity, something I find so funny as someone who has covered both of these things for so long, the MAGA face is very much, it's very similar in a lot of ways to real housewife face, to Kardashian face.
00:31:34.760And so we are seeing these political women.
00:31:54.080And, you know, I know there have been pieces on this, like what political affiliation, like whatever housewife is like, you know, like guesses.
00:32:02.180I mean, we know Ramona Singer is like a complete, like, but I do wonder these women who are who are housewives, if.
00:32:13.200Anyway, if they lean more progressive, but their but their physical appearance, I don't know.1.00
00:32:18.000It's just a weird blend that like it's a weird blend.
00:32:23.260But again, because I think it is because the housewives created this certain kind of aesthetic that is on TV all the time.0.75
00:32:30.240too like they're not just a normal celebrity they're a celebrity that's like constantly
00:32:33.820constantly streaming at you that has become the celebrity aesthetic right perhaps that is why0.92
00:32:39.780maga adopted that right oh i that i think that's spot on because with the housewife like as you
00:32:45.680said the camera is literally always on them yeah i don't think they're necessarily doing it for the
00:32:49.320male gaze no no no no but it is about like you like chrissy noem knows whenever she goes to make
00:32:56.160an appearance kimberly pam like they're they're donald trump is watching you and he wants to
00:33:01.780know that you look good you he like what he thinks looks good and um you know like when politics is
00:33:08.200about performance soul and it's always been about performance but when it's like solely about it
00:33:14.280yeah but now it's about celebrity style performance okay like it is different now it is just different
00:33:18.560now yeah and just cruel things are coming out of your mouth um it's yeah we're at a weird stage
00:33:25.660We're in a weird stage. We're in a weird place. I mean, that's that might be what I what I want to call this ongoing segment of the podcast. We're in a weird place. We talk about it. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. Where can everyone read this story and more things from you?
00:33:39.260Um, it's at motherjones, um, motherjones.com. We have, um, a print magazine and, um, online.
00:33:46.760And that is all we have for today. I gotta say, I mean, I, I do Botox. I'm about to get Botox for
00:33:52.880the book tour. I'm trying to teach myself lashes cause they just look good on TV and I might,0.97
00:33:58.520I might even try micro needling. Okay. I don't even know what it does and it sounds really scary,
00:34:03.760but I do want to do something special with my face just to give my face a little present and
00:34:12.520a glow up before this book tour. But I do think that you can go too far. And that's not even what
00:34:19.640this is about. This is about everyone looking exactly the same. And I personally think looking
00:34:26.600away that is attractive to a very particular kind of man. A mega man, right? I don't know.
00:34:36.100I want to keep talking about this. I think it's all so strange, and I'm just so happy that you
00:34:41.060are here with me today. Get your orders in for Everyone is Lying to You. I'm just going to say
00:34:46.540it over and over again. I'm a broken record. We want this book about tradwives taking down the
00:34:52.720patriarchy to be on every bestseller list, because this is the kind of book that I want to read right
00:34:58.200now. I want to see more of these in the world. And also, it's just a shit ton of fun. A shit ton
00:35:03.600of fun. So open your phone right now. Order one for you. Order one for a friend. You're going to
00:35:08.920be so happy when it arrives on July 15th. Have a great day. Do something nice for yourself. You