Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Other Women's Bodies

00:00:00.000 Hello, all. Jo here. You are listening to Under the Influence. And today's episode

00:00:10.400 is one of those where you're kind of just a fly on the wall in my long, lovely friendship

00:00:18.460 with Glynis. Yeah. Today, we are just going to shoot the shit. Glyn and I are talking

00:00:25.840 about women's bodies, our bodies, the strangeness of our current bodies, and the representation

00:00:34.740 of women's bodies and menopause and paramenopause in books these days. We've got a lot to say,

00:00:43.020 as you can probably imagine, and I want to hear what you have to say on all of these topics. So

00:00:49.600 please, after you listen, drop me a line, slide into my DMs. As always, if you love this show,

00:00:57.540 please leave us a review in all of the review places and tell all of your friends. And don't

00:01:03.620 forget, the Sicilian Inheritance is on sale right now. It is on sale on the Amazon and you can get

00:01:10.240 it for like a few bucks cheaper than usual if you have it already or if you want to buy it for nine

00:01:15.820 of your friends. So let's just chat. Let's just chat about women, about our bodies, and about my

00:01:24.480 newfound, weird, middle-aged bio. Hi, Glynnis. Hi. Hi. What have you been doing this morning?

00:01:37.020 Melting. Oh, I know. I know. I did an interview. I did that Bright Side podcast interview

00:01:42.520 the other day to talk about Sicilian inheritance, the book of the summer. And we had to turn off

00:01:49.100 all of the fans. And I stood up and I was just wet. It was like I melted. I was the wicked witch

00:01:54.880 of the West and I had just melted. And also, I'm going to talk about something so disgusting that 0.76

00:01:59.580 some listeners may just turn this off right now. But I believe that one of my perimenopausal

00:02:05.540 symptoms is that my BO is worse than ever. Oh, but you know, that wouldn't surprise me because

00:02:11.760 kids girls getting bo is the first sign of puberty it's your hormones are changing and so 0.60

00:02:18.840 perimenopause is your hormones in chaos so it wouldn't surprise me if the bo gets worse but

00:02:23.340 of course we wouldn't know for sure because no one has done research into perimenopause which

00:02:26.400 is why it's the subject of every conversation i have with everyone no matter what every

00:02:31.460 conversation i want to know what's happening with other people's bodies yeah well no i mean i just

00:02:36.080 smell I'm just like stinkier than I have been in years and um like even no matter what deodorant

00:02:43.040 it's like I have maybe four or five hours worth of deodorant and then I'm like stinky again uh

00:02:48.920 and it's it's just it's very interesting I mean people haven't been moving away from me in public

00:02:53.280 yet but it is it's strange to it's strange to all of a sudden not know your own body

00:02:59.740 i would also say it is strange although i do feel like being a woman is like a long exercise in

00:03:06.700 in your body being somewhat of a stranger to you at all times you're like feel like a prisoner to

00:03:12.720 your body sometimes in better in good ways and in bad also though regarding bo it is so hot it is

00:03:19.500 i feel like people need to talk more about seasonal depression disorder as regard with regards to

00:03:24.760 summer because it always is like attached to winter but I experience it in the summer during

00:03:29.480 heat because I hate the heat so much that I feel like Madeline Kahn's character in Clue like there's

00:03:35.540 literal flames shooting out of my head oh I love I love Madeline Kahn's character in Clue she's my

00:03:42.000 favorite character in all of Clue um also remember the scene where the uh singing telegram answers

00:03:48.840 the door and does a little tap dance right before she gets shot I used to love that scene when I was

00:03:53.100 a kid that little song, I Am a Singing Telegram. Well, you know, Charlie's school, his elementary

00:03:58.580 slash middle school, the middle schoolers did Clue as the school play. And you know what?

00:04:04.520 They didn't take out any of the sexual innuendos or the murder. And I was like, you know what?

00:04:09.900 Way to just play it straight, Greenfield Elementary. I just saw my friend Rachel's

00:04:18.820 daughter was in a little mermaid she's nine she was in a little mermaid uh production in new york

00:04:23.580 and of like with professional kids who were in the starring roles but i was watching the musical

00:04:28.660 and i was like oh this is there's so many problems with the little mermaid like so many problems i

00:04:34.980 didn't change anything but the music's fantastic so you're like oh this is you're like i'm still

00:04:39.260 into the music no the music is so good but it is intensely problematic i mean again if we're just

00:04:45.300 ranking things today because why not? It's hot. Let's just rank things. I find the most problematic

00:04:51.140 Disney cartoon to be Beauty and the Beast because all it is is an abusive relationship that the

00:04:56.880 woman stays in until she finally submits to a beast. I mean, look, he's got great real estate,

00:05:04.640 but that's really all he has going. And he locks her in a prison and also locks up her father and

00:05:11.560 he's constantly throwing things across the room at her. I mean, he's a dick. Okay, the beast is a 1.00

00:05:16.640 dick. And it's a bad message for little girls. But then the Little Mermaid is also so problematic. 1.00

00:05:23.060 Packaged in such delightful reggae tones and my favorite Disney song of all time, A Part of Your

00:05:28.900 World. Do you know I once interviewed Ellen? You know what's really screwy is Kiss the Girl is my

00:05:34.320 favorite song and that song is about rape to all assault I love I love kiss the girl um I once

00:05:42.780 interviewed Alan Menken when I was working at the New York Daily News and you know he he did all of

00:05:48.420 the songs all of the music for so many of those Disney classics including The Little Mermaid and

00:05:53.480 I asked him if he would play the piano while I sang A Part of Your World badly wow yeah yeah

00:06:00.260 I got no shame. I mean, it's kind of like the time that I met Julie Andrews. And I was like,

00:06:06.460 are we going to sing? Are we going to sing my favorite things? Are we? And she was like,

00:06:10.700 she was like, no. And I was like, yes. Okay, yes. Wow. You never told me that. I think I

00:06:19.500 wouldn't be able to speak if I'm not in front of Julie Andrews. I'll send you the picture. It's

00:06:23.180 good. It's an adorable picture. And sometimes it sometimes it pops up like in memories on my phone

00:06:28.720 and my kids will be like, Maria. I would flip out if I saw a picture of my mother with Julie

00:06:35.120 Andrews. Right? I know. I know. No, that was that was that was a crowning achievement of my

00:06:40.000 journalism career. It really was. I mean, more so than interviewing pretty much every presidential

00:06:44.880 candidate since 2004, which I've also done. I don't want to talk about the president's right

00:06:49.620 there. No, no one wants to talk about the president, which is why today we're talking

00:06:52.600 about B.O., The Little Mermaid, and what women want in books. Yeah, I'm so curious. So

00:07:01.820 this came about because I read the novel Sandwich by Catherine Newman, right, is that the author's

00:07:08.820 name? And I read it specifically because of your newsletter recommendation, which

00:07:13.700 in our ongoing conversations of what sells books, I still think it's worth your mouth,

00:07:19.160 because i read it because i know you and when i saw that and you had given me a copy of what was

00:07:25.600 her last one about the two friends oh about the two friends yeah that one was so good we can't

00:07:30.100 have nice things we can't have nice what is it we can't have everything we can't have hold on i'm

00:07:33.620 gonna look it up i'm gonna keep talking while i look it up yeah um so and also my goal for this

00:07:38.760 summer is to become a person who reads books again you're an amazing reader but my reading

00:07:42.600 has fallen off significantly in the last three months of launching this book and i really really

00:07:47.900 really wanted um to get back to it so i downloaded books are magic's summer reading challenge for

00:07:54.800 kids card where you like write the title that's so fun yeah because i loved those when i was a kid

00:07:59.660 i loved it so um it's called it's it's we all we all want impossible things which was katherine

00:08:06.080 newman's other novel which i love love loved yeah um yes and gave to me um so i went and

00:08:14.240 bought sandwich because i thought okay this is a good i'm reading sandwich and the murder of

00:08:19.220 roger akroyd by agartha christie which i have not read don't tell me what happens because i'm only

00:08:23.340 40 pages in um but i blew through sandwich like i blew through it i was like sitting there reading

00:08:29.840 it in the afternoon i was so engaged by it and it was making me have was making me i was having

00:08:37.060 strong reactions to it that i'm not sure can be categorized or described as enjoyment but i was

00:08:48.480 having a strong reaction which i think is like any book that gives you a strong reaction period

00:08:52.280 is worth matters it matters that's the thing it matters it just it just matters and i don't think

00:08:58.980 it matters whether you like it or dislike it or it's anger, love, hate, whatever. I just think

00:09:08.280 it's important generally that books give us a strong reaction. Exactly. And I did a little

00:09:14.400 story about it on my Instagram and I was thinking about, I'm not on Goodreads. I never review things.

00:09:20.340 No, I don't either. I don't know. I don't think it's fair, actually. I only review things that

00:09:25.540 I really, really enjoy, because I would never shit publicly on another writer, because I know

00:09:30.960 how hard it is to write a book. And there's, there's so many books that I do not like, like

00:09:34.860 I DNF constantly. Yeah, I don't feel the need to tell people when I don't finish things. And I also,

00:09:40.360 even when I have when I like something or have a strong reaction, the rating system drives me

00:09:44.980 crazy. I'm like, not everything has to be like on a scale books, I still think about from when I was

00:09:50.480 a kid were terribly written but had an impact on me like the rating system is so does such a

00:09:55.980 disservice to us and i was thinking about especially this week with this new york times 100 books

00:10:01.140 thing oh my god you know the new york times it's a marketing ploy well uh i didn't fill out my form

00:10:08.800 because i was in the middle of launching the book and i was just like oh i don't more free labor and

00:10:13.060 i don't have time for this and i hate lists i hate lists to a degree that i don't want to participate

00:10:16.740 in them i hate listing things and then afterwards i felt terribly guilty because i thought oh what

00:10:22.580 a missed opportunity to promote books that might otherwise not have gotten promotion but apparently

00:10:27.460 that's not how it worked anyway so but i just all of this idea of like ranking things it really

00:10:32.200 runs me wrong but i do think it's worth discussing something you have a strong reaction to and i do

00:10:37.260 think sandwich fits into a theme we're seeing this summer of middle-aged women in the starring

00:10:43.700 role in whatever capacity. Middle-aged women in the starring role. Totally, totally. And I want 1.00

00:10:51.520 to hear all of your thoughts on it. But first, we are going to take a quick break to hear a word

00:10:56.500 from our sponsors. We will be right back. And we're back. As Glynis said, now we are going to

00:11:14.120 talk about middle aged women in the starring role of our lives, as well as in books. I mean,

00:11:20.780 I feel like I'm the main character in my fucking life sorry Nick Astor absolutely 0.98

00:11:24.280 I think that's an understatement personally yeah well I mean as as my kids say I am the boss and 0.96

00:11:30.800 Nick Astor is the sub boss um but that's true in every fan this is what I want to say like the

00:11:40.220 lived experience which is why there's such frustration with how culture depicts this

00:11:44.440 is like the lived experience of me in the world and we can get this this ties into sandwich 0.51

00:11:50.660 is women mothers middle-aged women are are the main character of everything in real life

00:11:59.400 like literally the fact that we're not in culture is such an indictment of who gets to make cultural

00:12:06.080 decisions and we know the answer to that question and we know the answer to that question but but

00:12:11.240 recently you know we have seen several books this summer go bananas hot cakes in terms of sales 0.71

00:12:19.380 that have middle-aged women as the protagonists and it's not just sandwich it's also all fours

00:12:25.740 which i haven't started yet i haven't started either because it's a little too close to

00:12:30.000 my book in certain ways or i i feel like it is although i've been told that it's not um

00:12:35.620 well i would say actually you know what i think is interesting um i'd like to see someone do

00:12:41.420 a story on this i can't because i'm much too close to you but i would like to see a trend

00:12:48.840 piece. I love a trend piece. Talking about how hot books this summer, your book, I'm Mostly Here

00:12:54.760 to Enjoy Myself, Sandwich by Katherine Newman, and All Fours by Miranda July depict middle-aged

00:13:01.500 women, each of them grappling with something different, but also similar. So Katherine

00:13:07.600 Newman is in the sandwich age. Her kids are grown, but they've flown the nest. But, you know,

00:13:13.520 she's still still you know caring for them as young adults uh and she's also caring for her 0.75

00:13:19.880 aging parents you are unmarried and child free and miranda july in all fours i believe has has

00:13:27.020 a younger child um right all fours is very uh romantic left right i think there's a pretty

00:13:35.620 significant i'm pretty sure it's straight up it's straight up auto fiction anyway so she's still in

00:13:40.900 the throes of mothering. But we're still seeing women, pretty much all of you are about close to

00:13:47.200 the same age. I mean, within six, seven years. Or less. Or less. And all three of your books

00:13:52.840 are doing very well, because I think that they're hitting women with stories that we just never,

00:13:59.400 never see. I'm going to call the Wall Street Journal after this and tell them they should

00:14:04.020 do this story, that someone should write this story. I'm going to make it happen.

00:14:07.280 the interesting thing yeah i would love to see that story because i think it's true and a lot

00:14:11.560 of people in my instagram who've been tagging me have been pairing me with all fours sort of over

00:14:18.400 and over in a way that i recognize although i haven't read it although ann friedman in her

00:14:22.880 newsletter paired them and said i think and this is where the overlap between all fours and sandwich

00:14:28.100 comes in and this is the thing i struggled with in sandwich was the negative the relentlessly

00:14:33.020 negative way she speaks about the aging female body it's just a constant relentless like 0.97

00:14:39.940 the skin is creppy the the this is sagging I'm a bag of bones and this doesn't work like it's just

00:14:46.860 it's so much negativity and I have been told that all fours takes a similar like just relentless

00:14:53.260 negativity of aging Miranda July and I are the exact same age we're like four months apart

00:14:57.000 um and I find that I mean that's one of the reasons I ended up writing the book I wrote

00:15:03.060 is because that's not my experience of an aging body and I and I don't actually like to live in

00:15:07.040 that mind I I can complain about my body but it's not an uh it's not all negative like there's just

00:15:15.120 as much good as there is negative in different ways as there has always been and so I found it

00:15:19.140 really hard in the end to be in her experience of her physical experience I recognized her marriage

00:15:29.700 from here's the other thing Joe that I think of one of the probably the reasons I had a strong

00:15:33.400 reaction to this book is I am always in other people's families and houses right like my and

00:15:40.280 I had just come off book tour where I just spent weeks in other people's marriages and families

00:15:45.780 in houses including yours and so part of the book made me feel like I was in a house and I could

00:15:50.200 recognize certain things and I was like this is I would never stay in this house like I can see

00:15:54.020 what's going on this this house this house wouldn't make me feel love and enjoy this is not

00:15:59.940 the house this is the house I'd be invited to and say actually I found other accommodation like I'm

00:16:04.440 fully I I have the lived experience of being in many people's marriages and seeing you know from

00:16:10.440 an out from obviously you know in someone's marriage but seeing like sort of the outside

00:16:13.740 of how it's but i also found the flip side her relentless like uncritical love of her children

00:16:21.380 also found i found to be a bit much by the end i'm like no people complain about their children

00:16:26.160 like there's there's this sense of like oh the perfection the perfection the perfection i was

00:16:29.440 like oh my god it's too much well i i will say so one of the things that i i did love sandwich i'm

00:16:37.340 hearing everything you're saying though and to be honest and this is something i've been up here in

00:16:42.320 Catskills now for a week longer than we expected because we just didn't leave to go to the beach

00:16:47.680 because we decided, oh my gosh, we're actually not beach people. Why are we trying to make this

00:16:52.200 happen? Stop trying to make fetch happen. You like being in the mountains. No one in your family

00:16:59.220 likes sand. You don't want a UTI. Come on, just stay fucking in the cabin. We've been here a long

00:17:06.860 time I've been talking to Casey about this even the best books that I've read this year could

00:17:12.720 have used a strong editor and they didn't have them oh for absolutely I mean and so like my

00:17:19.560 like only issue with sandwich was like what so I want to say what I loved first what I loved

00:17:25.860 was you know she's got these adult kids and she's looking back on how hard it was when they were

00:17:32.100 little and nostalgic for that time. And I, I like to remember to think about myself in the future,

00:17:39.700 looking back at this, looking back at this hard time, you know, at this time when everybody has

00:17:44.240 hand, foot and mouth, and once again, gave me hand, foot and mouth. Oh, no, did they? They did.

00:17:49.680 Again, when I left, I thought I didn't think you could get it twice. Oh, I didn't think you could

00:17:54.720 get it twice either. But yeah, you can. And yeah, and Nick got it this time, which kicked his

00:18:01.620 living ass. Like, oh, he was down for three days with hand, foot and mouth with like the sores in 0.99

00:18:09.540 the mouth. I mean, this is like the grossest episode of all time. Okay. All we're doing is

00:18:12.800 talking about being around children and summer and hand, foot and mouth. But like, so reading

00:18:17.900 the book just made me be like, oh, I will feel this way one day. But and I didn't mind the

00:18:24.180 references to like, you know, wanting to touch their skin and like, oh my gosh, you also have 0.98

00:18:29.000 these perfect young bodies, but there were maybe two or three too many of them. And I'm like, oh,

00:18:33.720 this just needed an edit. I don't, I didn't mind them either. I actually, I loved them. It was

00:18:38.480 that they weren't counterbalanced with any, it was almost like it was pure negativity over her

00:18:44.300 own body and only pure positivity over her children's. And I was like, both of these things

00:18:49.280 need some balance, like some real life balance. And also her kids weren't that grown. One was

00:18:54.380 just, they were just college age. And I was a little bit like, it just, although I did, I mean,

00:18:59.520 I appreciated a lot of it. Listen, I, I also, this is not criticism. I really, I've recommended

00:19:04.100 to everyone, but it's been really, one of the reasons I wanted to talk about it is that when

00:19:07.840 I put that out up in Instagram, I heard from a lot of people who aren't married or aren't partnered

00:19:12.980 and don't have kids at this exact same reaction to me, which is it just reaffirmed all of my life

00:19:17.300 choices in a way where I was just like, Oh, thank God I'm not in the middle of this. And on the flip

00:19:22.520 side I recognize the ways in which particularly the way she talks about marriage at that stage

00:19:28.100 that I see evidence of that in a lot of good marriages right like that is just the reality

00:19:34.300 of long and what a relief it is to see some depiction of that on the page I'm imagining

00:19:40.460 you know like it was I recognized all the ways in which she had nailed something a

00:19:46.360 a tricky thing to talk about what she nailed to me to talk about is some things that often get

00:19:54.440 depicted in black and white and she managed to nail the grayness of the sensibility and then

00:19:59.560 in other ways i was just like can we ease up on your uh like a senior citizen at 52 and

00:20:07.080 like your children should be getting a nobel peace prize for perfection like it just they

00:20:11.980 it made the kids seem a little two-dimensional and it also made aging seem a little two-dimensional

00:20:16.880 but but again in ways where I'm like everyone should read it like I just it's not this is not

00:20:23.120 like a don't this is where I think book criticism even reviews in the times or whatever fall apart

00:20:29.340 it's like I'm engaged with the book like I was so engaged with it so engaged so engaged with the

00:20:35.720 book and you know what not everyone everyone should be a book reviewer too which is why

00:20:40.100 Although, everyone, leave your reviews of Sicilian Inheritance.

00:20:42.760 I know you all think it's a five-star read.

00:20:45.460 So just, I mean, if you haven't already, leave a review.

00:20:48.580 Because also, sadly, those reviews help.

00:20:51.200 They make Amazon promote the book more.

00:20:53.380 But I just, I don't know.

00:20:56.360 I don't know.

00:20:56.920 Like, I think, Sam, much like you said, you can see flaws in a book, and that's fine.

00:21:01.740 I think there's flaws in every book.

00:21:02.920 There's flaws in my books.

00:21:04.180 Oh, there's so many flaws in my book.

00:21:05.460 I like flaws that are in my book.

00:21:06.700 Even the Sicilian Inheritance, even in Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself, just say the Dame of Your

00:21:11.340 Book as many times as possible. But I don't think every reader needs to go into a book knowing

00:21:19.180 every flaw. I think Sandwich is a great book and I keep recommending it. I keep gifting it. I've

00:21:24.980 gifted it to about five of my friends because it really captured a lot of my life and my marriage

00:21:31.600 and things i don't usually see written about i love katherine newman's writing i mean i read

00:21:36.720 her blog i read her newsletter her do you i didn't see i didn't know before this she has a newsletter

00:21:42.000 called crone sandwich which is really truly excellent um also should i just say like

00:21:48.800 occupying space on the times bestseller list for fiction in a world of fairies and dragons

00:21:53.900 with depictions of menopause i mean both with um both with all fours and with this is like

00:22:00.920 And with Dr. Mary, with Dr. Mary Claire's book, let's not, let's not forget the nonfiction bestseller right now is the new menopause. Okay. Women are hungry for this content. Who would have thought that, who would have thought it would have been like fairy and dragon sex and menopause that dominate the bestseller list?

00:22:18.160 entirely surprise it doesn't it doesn't entirely surprise me because we all want like knowing

00:22:26.560 as a gen my doctor said to me at that point like you're all angry there's not more information

00:22:32.880 about perimenopause because you're used to having information like everyone wants to see themselves

00:22:37.240 reflected on the screen and um it was interesting at the reading an oblong the other night I did

00:22:44.140 the demographic for the crowd skewed so much older which was a first for me because it's

00:22:47.940 been skewing younger and everyone in the audience was 60 not everyone but a lot of people in the

00:22:51.960 audience were 60 and above and I just thought even when you're not writing about a demographic

00:22:56.700 seeing some version of an aging woman on paper is such a relief it is like it's so enjoyable

00:23:06.000 even I mean this book was enjoyable for me even in the ways I said earlier it wasn't enjoyable but

00:23:11.500 like it's enjoyable for me to see flawed women and aging depicted and not attached to a murder

00:23:19.020 mystery because that's usually how we get them you know like just this this what the small

00:23:24.500 experience of life at a beach at this age with family on either side is enough to hold a story

00:23:33.240 and hold your attention like that it is interesting enough it is what's the inciting incident they

00:23:39.860 went to a beach like it's just went to the beach for a week I mean well and people keep asking me

00:23:43.800 they're like what's it about I'm like they just go to the beach for for a week I don't know just

00:23:47.540 read it yeah yeah just read it just read it well and look I mean I think that the love of sandwich

00:23:55.220 really is pure word of mouth and people love Catherine um and it's a book that makes people

00:24:00.640 feel things I think we just want books that make us feel things again um I mean I still believe

00:24:07.860 that all of the lists are are pretty much bullshit but i'm happy that katherine newman remains on that 0.93

00:24:13.360 list that's stupid to see something on there that should be on there yes versus all of our 0.99

00:24:21.100 discussions about the machinations of like the algorithm and what they count and what they don't 0.94

00:24:26.940 count for what doesn't get on there you're just like okay great someone should is getting the

00:24:30.220 attention who deserves it exactly someone someone deserving is getting the attention exactly exactly

00:24:35.900 all right we're gonna take one more quick break here and when we get back we are gonna talk what

00:24:41.680 should we talk about when we get back what should we do we'll think of it during the break great

00:24:46.860 okay and we are back we're back with Glynis who's in her New York City apartment it looks hot there

00:25:00.380 girlfriend it does it's gross did you did you know that it's 107 in Rome right now oh I'll never go

00:25:07.380 to Europe in the summer again I mean it is when I went upstate for the book event two days ago

00:25:12.800 or when I was trying to come back down two days ago it was like all these warnings of

00:25:16.800 so many delays because the tracks are so hot the trains can't run um so maybe that's also I mean

00:25:23.280 not for nothing but I really appreciated I am a beach person I would live in the water if I could

00:25:27.620 and uh just all the descriptions of them in the water I really I really loved it was such it was

00:25:35.100 like I think too we're still I think part of what is engaging about this book and all fours and what

00:25:41.800 people tell me about my book is like the the descriptions the tactile descriptions of touch

00:25:48.680 which I do not think we get that get attached to middle-aged women right you're told that your

00:25:56.500 your kids don't want anything to do with you or your husbands are not 1.00

00:25:59.740 attracted or like.

00:26:01.560 And I love in sandwich that her husband is still very,

00:26:04.960 very attracted to her because of course he is like,

00:26:06.960 no matter what my body looks like,

00:26:08.260 Nick Astor is still going to want to do it with me.

00:26:09.980 And I mean,

00:26:11.520 I'm too tired to do it right now.

00:26:12.920 Plus my period erupted again this week.

00:26:15.580 Like that's a whole other breaking,

00:26:17.460 the breaking of the dam again.

00:26:19.120 I appreciated the way she talked about blood actually in that book too,

00:26:23.800 because this idea,

00:26:25.700 you know,

00:26:25.900 when i was gonna when i did write that puberty book and the title was going to be there will be

00:26:29.400 blood it's like the thing that you don't know all you're told about menopause is that your period

00:26:33.700 stops but you're not really prepared for the years leading up to it when like they get worse or more

00:26:39.500 violent or oh my god there's so much blood and you're just like am i at war with my body right

00:26:44.380 now and also i'm not at war with my like it's just this complicated relationship with your body

00:26:49.780 that's not all negative and i appreciated the way she talks about her husband being attracted to her

00:26:54.540 Because the older I get, the more I recognize that it's not that men become unattracted to their spouse's bodies or to aging women's bodies.

00:27:05.020 It's that women become less attracted to them for reasons that are not physical, right?

00:27:09.880 Like the fact that she kept saying to her husband, you don't know me, you don't understand me.

00:27:13.600 I was like, having been on the receiving end of many people in my lives telling me that about their partners, I was like, oh, I recognize the truth of all of this.

00:27:24.540 which I thought was really I thought it was well done as well it was it really was and you know

00:27:31.920 that's all I mean yeah we don't know enough about what happens to women's bodies or or the fact that 1.00

00:27:37.280 like yeah I'm still attracted to you I'd like to have sex with you but my vagina has done weird 1.00

00:27:40.620 things and shrunk and dried up and I don't know like no one told me this was going to happen 0.99

00:27:44.960 and so yeah it's all all of the all of the weirdness that that goes with it uh we should

00:27:51.480 have katherine newman on the show actually i should reach out to her on the instagrams and

00:27:55.120 see if she wants to come on because i'd love to talk to her about it um this is the thing too i

00:27:59.040 would love to talk to her also because i don't actually i don't like i love i love engaging with

00:28:06.640 a book but as two people who've also had books come out in the last few months i does it sort

00:28:11.360 of does feel like talking about someone when they're not in the room because it's like i'm

00:28:15.580 not interested that none of this is critical it's like i'm just you know we're both just like

00:28:20.220 engaging with it and having, and I'd love to have her, I'd love to talk to her about it.

00:28:25.280 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting. Well, because I know, you know, a ton of book clubs

00:28:30.180 are meeting about both of our books right now. And so there is that interesting feeling of people

00:28:34.780 talking about you behind your back and every single book club visit I've done has been great,

00:28:38.980 except for one, which was so weird, which I won't totally talk about, but it was just so

00:28:44.180 strange and the questions were so off-putting and I also kind of feel like I don't need people to

00:28:52.060 tell me all the time that they loved the book but I do feel like there's a certain sense of decorum

00:28:57.660 of like if you in like if you came over to my house for dinner you're not going to be like oh

00:29:03.860 my god your pot roast is shitty it's just like okay like you know we're just going to be polite

00:29:08.700 like I'm coming as a guest to the book club but like I did at this one really weird book club 0.98

00:29:12.780 the questions were strange um and two of the people just pointed out every flaw in the book

00:29:18.160 to me um to me and I was like I it's fine you can have all these feelings but also like I don't know

00:29:24.960 if I need to hear them like maybe talk about it also you might not think they're flaws too some

00:29:29.700 people are to me I mean the complaints I get about this book not it's not like it's the complaint I

00:29:36.120 hear the most although it's not certainly from everyone people who are going to complain this

00:29:39.500 what they complain about is that there's not enough sex which I think is both a result as

00:29:43.380 we've talked about oh I got that I got that one today I got why did you bother even bother to

00:29:47.980 include this this question a book club sent me sent me why did you even bother to include this

00:29:52.500 sex scene when it was so short and not that good and he came so fast yes and what it's in what it's

00:29:58.480 telling me because this happened at oblong the other night um one of the women in the crowd

00:30:01.680 said it was just I just wanted more sex and I said well that's not the book I set out to write

00:30:05.900 And the expectation of that, I think, comes from some early coverage, which is also an indictment of how little sex we have in culture around middle age, that people are craving it.

00:30:14.880 But I was also just like, man, what an opportunity to write Fifty Shades of Grave or Fifty-something.

00:30:21.660 The dirtiest. 0.99

00:30:21.900 The fucking dirtiest. 1.00

00:30:22.840 Yeah. 1.00

00:30:23.720 But we could get – well, ChatGPT won't write porn, so that won't work.

00:30:27.120 I'm not giving a yes.

00:30:27.940 it was interesting to me too though because in that in that complaint i don't actually take it

00:30:34.820 as criticism because i'm like i wrote i i it's fine but it's but all i hear is like an opportunity

00:30:40.800 but not just an opportunity for us like just a general opportunity to have filth like sexy sexy

00:30:49.120 sexy shows featuring middle-aged bodies and how much money that would make because this is what 1.00

00:30:56.220 I keep hearing. And this is one of the reasons I know that the sex in all fours, there's some 0.99

00:31:00.320 because people keep saying, oh, I'm so shocked by the sex, which is weirdly what some people say.

00:31:04.040 I mean, you get both sides, right? People are like, oh, my God, the sex in this. But I'm like,

00:31:07.580 oh, man, there's a real audience for this. And I think that's the audience we're both sensing

00:31:11.040 coming out for all of these books is like, oh, my God, we are still we not still we remain vital,

00:31:17.500 engaged preachers desire with animal desires, whatever those happen to be, whether it's

00:31:23.200 rest or security or love or hate or whatever it is um sex that we're not totally totally well and 0.95

00:31:31.680 also sex sex and affection like the the other criticism that I got in in this book club and

00:31:37.320 again I'm like I want to show up at all of your book clubs and you don't have to be you don't have 0.97

00:31:40.500 to gush over my book but like talk shit about me once I leave okay I've just like again I wouldn't 0.97

00:31:44.580 come to your dinner party and shit on your house but um I'm taking time out of my schedule to do 0.98

00:31:49.960 this because i love it i've zoomed into more than a hundred book clubs and i just and i just want to 0.99

00:31:54.500 like i want to answer questions and have fun but i don't need you to like one woman literally stood

00:31:58.780 up and attacked me and she didn't like that no one ended up no one ended up with a man at the

00:32:03.500 end of this they she was pissed she's like i just think you got it wrong i think that you know of 1.00

00:32:08.740 course chatina would have wanted to have sex with marco if he was so hot and everyone wanted to have

00:32:12.120 sex with him and i think that yeah like it's weird like you can't have this person not end up with a 0.85

00:32:17.500 man? And why didn't Sarah end up with so and so? And I'm like, none of this is about me. It's about 0.68

00:32:21.160 you. And you just want to say this out loud. And I'll let you do that. So much of criticism. I mean,

00:32:25.000 even what we're saying about this book is just speaking to our experiences, like what we're

00:32:29.520 seeing ourselves in and not seeing ourselves in I get I've by I won't say you the high profile

00:32:34.200 reporters who's but more than one high profile interview has said to me, I really I wanted you

00:32:39.460 to have emotional connections with some of these men. I wanted to know that it went somewhere. And

00:32:43.100 I was like, that is a mystery. That is you. That is you. Yeah. And also it speaks to how we

00:32:49.360 understand women's value in the world, but also you're reading the wrong book. You're reading

00:32:53.020 the wrong book. Well, and I say this a lot, uh, in the Sicilian inheritance book clubs, I'm like,

00:32:57.640 I wanted to flip a lot of narratives on their head, much in the way you did in, in nonfiction

00:33:02.640 with mostly here to enjoy myself. I don't want there to be a male savior in this book. I want

00:33:07.300 women to save themselves. There's not, there's not. Nick Astor didn't save me. 1.00

00:33:11.140 No, that's what I also appreciated in sandwich because no husband ever saves her. I've never once seen any marriage in which the husband is saving their wife. But what I appreciated in that one, she was like, she just said, she like tried to recognize the things he provided. Like he picked things up and went and got the pizza and he like didn't lose his temper. And I'm like, that is successful husband.

00:33:31.800 That is successful. Thank you. Thank you. It is those little things. It's not, oh my God,

00:33:36.820 you saved my life. You changed my life. Culture has set us up to believe that a marriage is the

00:33:41.580 end all be all of now your life is good. Now things are good for you. You are well. I mean,

00:33:47.220 I know I believed it forever and ever. And it's why I was so fucking depressed in my 30s until 0.76

00:33:51.560 I met the person. I'm like, how, what else is there? This is the thing. You say, oh, 0.87

00:33:57.720 I believed it. Stupid me. It's not stupid you. It's like, there's no, there's no hint that this 1.00

00:34:02.780 might not be true. Right. There's no, even though some individual tells you, it's like an interview

00:34:07.380 I did the other day where I said, we know that marriage does not serve women. It serves financially 0.92

00:34:13.480 and infrastructure. It serves men. It doesn't serve women. And the interviewer looked at me 1.00

00:34:16.720 and said, my marriage has been very helpful to me. And I'm like, Oh, I think that's like saying

00:34:21.880 I personally have good health insurance policy, but like, can we explore the health insurance

00:34:26.940 policies of this country but i think people you know when an individual says to you marriage

00:34:31.800 doesn't solve all your problems you're like that's your marriage look at all these amazing

00:34:34.860 movies and novels i have where the marriage is like the the solution to everything and then

00:34:39.740 but in real life it's never the solution the most successful marriage is somebody remembers to go

00:34:46.120 pick things up and then doesn't make the house messy like that is you know and it provides

00:34:50.440 assistance that's the male version the women's version is they're the main character of everything

00:34:55.120 whether they want to be or not no it's all true it's all true I mean we don't see nearly enough

00:35:00.780 depictions of a real normal perfectly acceptable happy marriage I mean I think my marriage is one

00:35:06.140 of the happiest like going and like it's still it's it's good it's terrible it's great it's a

00:35:12.540 dumpster fire it's like a push and pull and that's another thing that I loved about sandwich is that

00:35:16.620 you know there's that I love you I don't like you every day I've gone through years feeling like you

00:35:21.500 don't know me like that is but that is also almost any relationship including friendships and the

00:35:27.560 fact that we think marriage should be something separate from that and something special it's

00:35:32.340 nothing special it's just another relationship just like your friendships just like your

00:35:35.900 relationship with your parents it is not sanctified and it's not special it is not unique it is just

00:35:41.740 another relationship a relationship though that gets rewarded with rituals and narratives and

00:35:47.320 legalities in ways that none of the other ones do well I guess parenthood at the beginning does

00:35:52.080 but that I think and I also think the way that readers responded to you being frustrated with

00:35:59.060 your I'd be I'd love to talk to Catherine Newman and find out what readers are saying about this

00:36:03.300 because I bet she's I've been shocked with I'm also here to enjoy myself of the positive response

00:36:07.560 I've been getting from almost everyone um the amount of people who have already written me to

00:36:12.660 say they've written they've read it twice they've bought multiple versions of it so they can listen

00:36:16.220 to it and read it that all I've gotten that a lot too I really and I love that because I love

00:36:20.980 I really like that people are enjoying it in both mediums that they're reading and listening that's

00:36:25.560 really cool and it's like I but there are the I'm curious to know particularly for her if she's

00:36:34.560 getting the you're too negative like how I'm like oh she's so negative relentlessly negative about

00:36:39.220 age because I do think if we actually depicted the way marriage works I'd be curious how many

00:36:44.800 women would go into it which is what's happening right now with dropping marriage rates but like

00:36:49.020 if we did depict it how it actually is if the fallout would be a changing of

00:36:54.160 structures around partnership that benefited that made it seem more appealing right I mean

00:37:00.280 that's the long-term question uh why does marriage serve men more than women in in in so many

00:37:07.500 financial ways but you know it's so interesting I mean it's so we've just talked about this book

00:37:10.600 for what almost an hour it's like it's a it is engaging you know it is engaging it brings up

00:37:15.940 questions and I mean that's exactly what I think a book should do and again like I almost feel bad

00:37:21.700 saying that I was I was like turned off when when people started attacking me in this in this one

00:37:26.480 book club because I shouldn't have been I should have thicker skin I think also the book clubs

00:37:29.680 happen late at night and so I'm like beaten down by my day already I also think like there is the

00:37:36.260 But even though you're like, I can take it.

00:37:38.500 I have a thick skin.

00:37:39.660 I don't look at Goodreads.

00:37:40.900 I don't read any of the reviews.

00:37:41.960 I don't read your reviews on Amazon.

00:37:43.220 I don't read any of it.

00:37:43.880 No, I don't either.

00:37:44.340 I can feel in myself be like, who do you think you are criticizing this?

00:37:48.580 You go and try and write a book and see how hard it is.

00:37:50.960 And then I'm like, that's not how the world works.

00:37:53.960 That's not how people engage with things.

00:37:57.300 Like, just stay away from it and let people deal with it.

00:38:01.900 But yeah, having it in your face.

00:38:04.480 It's the way that people speak to you sometimes as if you do not have normal feelings is always telling to me.

00:38:14.580 This is true.

00:38:15.200 This is true.

00:38:15.820 Yeah, no.

00:38:16.280 And I think, yeah, it does feel like, oh, if you're an author and you're someone putting ideas out there, then people think that they can, you know, very, very, very openly criticize you.

00:38:27.660 But, you know, I don't know.

00:38:29.600 I mean, I see all sides of it, right?

00:38:31.260 Like I am putting myself out there for cultural criticism.

00:38:33.540 I just don't really I just don't really want it said to me at 8 p.m. on a Sunday night when I've already put two kids to bed.

00:38:39.320 I also think that putting yourself out there for cultural criticism is very different than putting yourself like walking yourself naked into a square and asking everyone to throw things at you, which is sometimes what it feels like to be on the Internet when you've put something out there.

00:38:51.820 Right. Like it sometimes feels like. You are just it's just an exercise in being abused, but that is that is the truth of everyone on the Internet.

00:39:01.980 so I don't know that but that is the truth that is the truth of the internet my friend that really

00:39:05.740 it really is it really is I mean one of the things that I've loved loved loved about being up here

00:39:10.440 uh in the Catskills for two weeks and it's another one of the reasons we didn't leave

00:39:13.740 is that we're in person in real life with people constantly and you wouldn't think we would be

00:39:19.440 because we are so secluded in a cabin in the woods but we live in a you know tight-knit community

00:39:24.880 Casey and Stephen were just here literally just sitting on the porch couch for like two hours

00:39:28.980 Like we just, we just sat on the porch couch and, you know, Ted and Evan live right up through the woods and we've had the kids practicing neighborliness with them.

00:39:40.260 So they, they have been delivering dresses to their baby and then we didn't have enough flour for the donuts.

00:39:45.480 So they went to go ask for a cup of flour, which was like the first time they ever did that.

00:39:50.600 And then we go to Van Dusen's and we see like another five of our neighbors.

00:39:54.100 I mean, I just, it feels like we've been in person.

00:39:56.040 chocolate is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Van Dusen's, our local grocery store, where Will has a special

00:40:00.480 table of just Cadbury chocolate. Yeah. Also, it's so funny how fast time flies. I was like,

00:40:06.500 I was just on that porch with Casey and Steven, and that was what, at New Year's? Wasn't that

00:40:10.440 where we were at New Year's? It was. Yeah, yeah, that's where we were. Time goes really speedily.

00:40:14.800 Time goes really fast. Yeah. And so it's just been nice to be in real life with people. And

00:40:21.460 in a lot of book clubs that I've talked to, you know, they're saying, they're like, oh,

00:40:25.280 well, we haven't met in person in forever. We usually do it on Zoom. And I think people are

00:40:29.340 really hungry for human in-person connection again. That's why I think all of my book events

00:40:36.800 have sold out. I actually just, when everyone's like, oh, book events aren't that important. I'm

00:40:40.320 like, yeah, they are. They've all been packed. Yeah, they are. And same. All of my book events

00:40:44.080 have been sold out. All of them. They want to come meet in person and in community. And Zoom

00:40:51.280 sucks this would be much more fun if we were together on the porch it'd be much more fun if 0.96

00:40:55.680 we were together on the porch i know i know well we'll be together soon because we have book events

00:40:59.200 coming up together maybe we should do one we're going to bethany beach together i saw that on my

00:41:04.220 calendar and i was like who is at first i looked at it i went who's bethany beach that's a funny

00:41:08.020 name i was like no that's a place bethany beach is uh is it a stripper name is it a drag queen name

00:41:15.720 It feels like the end of one of, like, take the first street you lived on and the name of your first pet and then do this. 0.84

00:41:21.320 And that's your porn star name. 0.83

00:41:23.080 Like, Bethany Beach is a great porn star name. 0.99

00:41:25.460 Bethany Beach is a great porn star name. 0.70

00:41:27.900 Or a detective name for a woman whose parents, like, it'd be like, Detective Bethany Beach. 1.00

00:41:35.080 But she'd be like, she'd be like, 62-year-old butch.

00:41:40.800 And then I'd be like, oh, it's Bethany Beach.

00:41:43.360 Oh, no.

00:41:43.800 here comes here comes bethany beach here comes bethany beach we're gonna get so many negative 0.99

00:41:49.620 comments from people who live in bethany beach to be like stop shitting on my beach no i can't wait 0.80

00:41:53.280 to go to bethany beach i am a beach person i would live in the i was just at a friend's house 0.88

00:41:57.200 it was a pool and i was literally just in the pool like i didn't want to i like live in the

00:42:01.200 water i can't wait to go to bethany see i i like water i actually i actually am a beach person but

00:42:06.420 i'm not a beach person with small kids because that's terrible because i'm just constantly

00:42:10.220 trying to keep kids from drowning or eating shit or like just like being at a beach with small 0.79

00:42:15.460 children is my personal hell and I won't do it again okay just like I'm done back to the beginning 0.97

00:42:22.000 there is that scene or that paragraph in sandwich where she says the photos of us all looking so

00:42:28.640 happy and sunny and joyful with them as little kids at the beach and the reality was here is

00:42:32.620 how I spent my time which is exactly which I loved I loved loved loved that paragraph and in fact I

00:42:37.080 had given away my copy of sandwich which is why i didn't put it in my subsect but that's the one

00:42:41.100 that i was thinking about yeah when i was recommending the book i was like yes yes yes

00:42:44.580 this is my fucking life i mean i just much prefer them up here because they just go outside 0.92

00:42:48.680 and like they're contained they're contained in our yard although the baby the baby did climb up 0.99

00:42:52.840 into the tree house today oh wow well she's like not waiting for anyone she's not waiting for 0.73

00:42:58.400 anyone she's also a freaking genius like today while we were sitting on the porch b came out

00:43:03.080 she's like, I can't find my bathing suit. I can't find my bathing suit. Get me my bathing suit. 0.93

00:43:06.920 And Eliza just walked out with it. Wow. And I was like, wow, you're listening and you're watching 1.00

00:43:12.960 and you know everything. Yeah. Yes. I mean, that doesn't surprise me. No, no, not at all. Not at

00:43:20.000 all. Um, we had another thought we had a thread and I just, it's gone because, uh, memory loss

00:43:26.200 is just a thing. Oh, but what I'm saying about community. Yeah. We're just, we're hungry for

00:43:29.460 community. We're hungry for in-person. I don't think that that can be talked about nearly,

00:43:35.620 nearly enough. And I also think that it's very interesting because I was thinking about the

00:43:40.640 typical family vacation. A lot of families do go on vacation together, but it's never depicted that

00:43:46.780 way either. It's often depicted as it's just the nuclear family going on vacation to a place

00:43:51.960 in pop culture. And my experience is the best vacations are where you come with my family,

00:43:57.900 right or like we go on vacation with another family probably factored into how I was reading

00:44:02.160 this again I am I spend enormous amounts of time in other people's homes and in other people's

00:44:09.200 families and so I'm very good at knowing which families to go to and which families to stay away

00:44:13.520 from and I was like yeah I'm glad you keep returning to my family that's exactly it's a

00:44:19.040 real it's a real tell it's a real tell I'm like I know where to go and where not to go oh well now

00:44:25.080 Now I remember what I was going to say because I was looking at the calendar.

00:44:27.600 Oh, Catherine Newman just mentioned me because I just tagged her in my stories.

00:44:34.800 I'm going to message her and see if she'll come on the show.

00:44:37.020 But see, you know, it's all happening live.

00:44:39.200 This is essentially what Watch What Happens Live with Gwyneth and Joe.

00:44:43.080 What I was saying is I was looking at the calendar and I saw Bethany Beach and I've

00:44:47.020 been keeping my schedule on either side of it clear because I think you and I should

00:44:50.260 find like a fun, weird motel down there and spend the night.

00:44:53.660 so we can go or go early and spend time at the beach and then spend time at the beach in the

00:44:57.800 morning and then drive home. That's my ideal right now. I think we should make it a mini

00:45:02.320 vacation, a mini break, because I also need about three hours of editing time for this book. So

00:45:09.980 I'm away from my kids and know that I like to do it while in transit. So yeah, I'm going to look

00:45:16.180 for the weirdest motel in Bethany Beach. Like when we stayed at that, what was the one we

00:45:20.540 stayed at in london that was so insane remember the one we stayed at london it was like a theme

00:45:26.260 hotel that was so strange yeah i don't actually remember what the theme was what was the theme

00:45:31.820 was it like it was it was so strange yeah and then we stayed in that hotel in edinburgh that

00:45:40.360 gave us bed bugs i don't think it was edinburgh i think it was inverness oh it was inverness it

00:45:44.680 was inverness i am i was telling charlie that about that the other day we were some somehow

00:45:48.780 came up and he's like, you and Aunt Glynis went on a road trip in Scotland? I'm like, yes, we did.

00:45:55.620 He's like, why didn't I know about this? And I'm like, well, it was before you were born, Charlie.

00:45:59.680 You don't know everywhere I've been. He's like, I certainly do. And I'm like, no, you don't. And

00:46:04.200 he's like, well, I'd like to see pictures of this trip. And so I showed him the picture of you

00:46:09.240 sleeping in the boffy. In the boffy with my fur sweater. You know, it's funny. And actually,

00:46:14.900 really someone asked me to say the night um they said how are you celebrating your 50th and I said

00:46:19.140 having this book come out has felt like a month-long celebration primarily not just because

00:46:23.580 the book is doing well which is all it's great and wonderful but it was primarily felt like

00:46:27.700 celebration because this whole tour has been me staying with close friends and their families and

00:46:32.280 friends who I've known for since before they got married since before they had kids and so like

00:46:37.260 to see all the kids at various stages of grown and hang out with them and hang out with my friends

00:46:44.440 it just has felt like such a beautiful way to enter 50 of like like an almost it's not quite

00:46:51.440 a this is your life I keep thinking about how to write about this because I that piece the cut

00:46:55.780 came out with last month called I wasn't transformed by having my kid or whatever the

00:47:00.780 title was like that which I really appreciated because I certainly have had enough friends be

00:47:04.540 like I don't feel like a totally different person and then everyone in the comments was like

00:47:07.840 you're physically transformed by it which is whatever but I was like I want to write a piece

00:47:12.020 called like on being transformed by other people's children. I like that because there is, it's

00:47:17.440 totally true. And I was thinking because I got such an intense version of it. And I was even

00:47:20.800 just thinking like when I left your place after, um, after I'd been there for a couple of days,

00:47:26.520 like just missing, uh, B climb into my lap every morning over breakfast and just like watching her

00:47:32.780 become a little person in the world. I'm watching Eliza and Charlie. And then like, I went to my

00:47:36.520 high school best friends and her eldest is now like came to my book reading. Cause she's 16

00:47:41.940 years old and i was like i've known megan her mother since we were 16 years old like it's this

00:47:46.060 wonderful circular and like staying with and seeing ann in la and her she has a new baby so

00:47:52.460 it's like it's just this wonderful it's like so wonderful and not something that i think gets

00:47:56.360 talked about enough but it felt like really um great actually i want you to write that essay

00:48:04.160 i'd like you to write that don't make me happy maybe we'll write it while we're in a weird motel

00:48:07.640 on bethany beach to get paid for it i was gonna put it in newsletter and i was like

00:48:11.480 i'd like to pitch this what if someone would pay me yeah i'd like uh god i look limited um

00:48:18.280 uh this is delightful katherine newman we are big fans of yours um we love you for writing sandwich

00:48:25.780 uh and making me have a really strong reaction to a book which felt great right it reminds you

00:48:33.920 why we read it reminds you why we read we do we do it's such a great book um all right i'm gonna

00:48:38.780 go i'm sweating so much because my fans are off right now because of this and i'm like i know

00:48:42.800 well to record i have to turn every all of the air conditioner and everything off and then

00:48:46.300 i just stand up and i'm just gonna be wet and disgusting but i've only had cold showers for

00:48:50.960 three weeks i know i know well we're gonna we're gonna head down to the brewery to see casey and

00:48:54.960 steven and then we're off i will i will and then we're off to the poconos but i love you i love

00:48:59.660 this um i've got to put on more deodorant because i smell again yeah yeah maybe we should just come

00:49:05.000 up with a line of menopause deodorant oh the exact same deodorant it's just it's just packaged as

00:49:11.020 menopause deodorant it's just packaged as menopause it's actually men's deodorant but

00:49:14.520 packaged as menopause you have to put it on twice a day like sunblock yeah like sunblock what should

00:49:19.000 we call it um we should call it i don't know i'm gonna think of something uh menobi 0.93

00:49:27.420 you smell stinky we should just title it something like what one of your kids would 0.99

00:49:39.760 say to you when they're young you stink you stink why do you have hairs growing out of your chin 0.99

00:49:44.780 that's what someone said to me when kids said to me recently wasn't it be it might have been 0.97

00:49:48.980 listen any number of the children in my life might have said that to me um yeah yeah all right well

00:49:55.700 we're gonna leave you on that we're gonna leave you we would like your we'd like your input on

00:49:58.900 where we should stay in bethany beach and um and what what we should name our um

00:50:05.380 what we should name our our menopause deodorant

00:50:25.700 Thank you.

00:50:55.700 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - July 23, 2024

Other Women's Bodies

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