00:01:15.840We are celebrating the daughter of Ruby Frankie releasing the fastest book of all time, okay?
00:01:23.480fastest so fast did she use a ghostwriter do you know she used a collaborator okay okay okay so
00:01:32.260someone someone was helping her get this I just want to talk about how fast this publishing
00:01:38.480schedule was which might be wonky for some people but is is so interesting to me because
00:01:44.300it normally take like books have to incubate for about three years right this happened in about 16
00:01:50.800months. That is bananas that they were able to do it. It is. It is. Do you know who the
00:01:56.880collaborator is? I don't. Yeah. I don't have the book in front of me. I don't know who. Oh,
00:02:03.400okay. But yeah, it is in the book. I don't have the book in front of me either. We'll figure it
00:02:07.320out. We'll throw it in here later. Yeah. I have it in the other room so I can get it after we're
00:02:10.840done. Great. Yeah. Go pick it up. So for people who have not been following the Ruby Frankie
00:02:17.640scandal the way you and I have for the past year and a half. Let's just do a quick TLDR
00:02:25.420about what happened and who Sherry is and who Ruby is.
00:02:31.300Yeah. So Ruby Frankie was basically family vlogging royalty. She had this channel that0.52
00:02:38.820had like two and a half million subscribers at its height. It was called Eight Passengers,
00:02:43.380which was um it was named that because it was her and her husband and their six kids
00:02:47.980um obviously they're mormon obviously they're from utah and i say obviously because so many
00:02:53.520family vloggers are mormon and from utah yeah and vloggers is a video blogger right yes right
00:03:00.480vlogger vlogger is such a weird word to say out loud so weird and you're like not used to it and
00:03:06.640when i like first learned that it was video blog i was like oh wait that actually makes so much
00:03:10.960sense. Also, my husband brought me the book and Caroline Ryder was the writing collaborator.
00:03:18.160Okay. I'm always so curious. I'm like, does this person specialize in scandal books?
00:03:23.680So while you're explaining this, I'm going to look it up.
00:03:25.960Wait, that'd be such a fun deep dive to look into. Yeah. So, okay. So Ruby Frankie, yeah,
00:03:32.440was family vlogging royalty. She basically shared, you know, just the normal family vlog stuff,0.83
00:03:39.160day in the life, what it was like taking care of six kids, that kind of stuff. And basically it all
00:03:46.860came crashing down when she was arrested on charges of aggravated child abuse. And she is
00:03:54.440now serving up to 60 years in prison. And that's the really short TLDR. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean,
00:04:03.120that was really short, really short, but this was a huge scandal. You've been covering it
00:04:07.680since it broke. And it was huge because she had millions, millions of followers,
00:04:14.980billions of views for her parenting advice, which was absolutely at times abusive. And she has been
00:04:23.940convicted for that. Right. And it's fascinating. I mean, it's fascinating and horrible because
00:04:29.400at one point in Sherry's memoir, she talks about wanting to go back through the old vlogs and find
00:04:36.100like evidence that like Ruby has always been the person that that Sherry knows her to be and so she
00:04:42.880asks her Sherry asks her followers to upload links to this google doc of like instances of like what
00:04:50.540they see as abusive and they do and they upload like a ton of of links and it's just like so
00:04:57.100fascinating that Sherry's like looking for evidence of her mother's abusive behavior and she can like
00:05:02.760turn to the internet and kind of like crowdsource it like it's just like this fascinating thing but
00:05:07.940there was like I'll just give an example or two of the things that people found so one was that
00:05:14.440Sherry's younger brother Chad so there are six kids but Sherry only names her brother Chad who
00:05:21.020is also an adult now Sherry's 21 Chad I'm not sure how old he is but he's over 18 and the rest of the
00:05:27.380kids are under 18 so Sherry doesn't name them and so and I thought that was a really interesting
00:05:32.660and um just responsible choice but um chad gets his bed taken away for like months on end and
00:05:42.220sleeps on a beanbag on his bedroom floor and ruby like makes a youtube video about it like
00:05:48.860seemingly not understanding how wild that is um and that was one of the examples and then one of
00:05:55.400the other ones that really stuck with me was when one of her daughters was five years old and she
00:06:00.180forgot to bring her lunch to school and the school called and said, hey, so-and-so forgot
00:06:05.560their lunch. Can you bring something? And Ruby said, no, that's her responsibility and she needs
00:06:11.160to be hungry to learn. Oh my God. I mean, that was the one that we talked about in the first
00:06:15.720Ruby Frankie episode that we did because this didn't just happen. It happened in real time.
00:06:23.280this child was crying in the video and Ruby was filming it. So all of this, this whole scandal
00:06:32.620brought up every issue that we've ever talked about with family vlogging, blogging, influencing
00:06:39.760all of the things. And then also is just a stunning, stunning example of child manipulation
00:06:45.980and abuse. So all of that said, and that is the backstory. Now we have Sherry Frankie. She's
00:06:52.780Ruby's oldest daughter, right? Yes. She's the oldest child and yeah, oldest daughter.
00:06:58.400And so she has, and they were estranged when this happened already, right? She had gone to college.
00:07:04.680She had gone to college and she had been kind of like pushed out of the family by Jodi Hildebrandt,
00:07:10.860who is someone that Ruby or that Sherry considers to be like a cult-like figure.
00:07:17.620Oh, wait, wait, wait. So we didn't even do the Jodi of it all.
00:07:20.440we didn't even get a Jodi okay you know explain to everyone who this Jodi Hildebrandt character is
00:07:26.620okay so this was fascinating in the memoir too because I never knew like how Jodi came into
00:07:31.600their lives but basically so Chad um Sherry's younger brother was like you know just like a
00:07:38.280teenager like acting out like being a little you know rebellious whatever nothing like crazy he
00:07:44.060just seemed to be like the class clown a little bit but they were looking for a therapist for him
00:07:49.060And a family friend recommended Jodi, although it would turn out later that Sherry would find out that Jodi's licensure had been revoked years before.
00:07:59.420So she didn't have like any mental health licensing at the time.
00:08:03.820But she was brought in as like a therapist for Chad. And then slowly from there, she started exposing the family to this thing that she called connections classroom, which was basically her like, super dogmatic, like, I don't know, it was just like this bizarre, like, way of life that she would like spread to everyone.
00:08:25.400And this is why I understand why Sherry considers her like a cult-like figure, like leader, because the effect that she had on these people, like she not only started doing therapy with Chad, she started doing it with Ruby, with Sherry, with Kevin.
00:08:41.780and within like a dizzyingly small amount of time kevin was pushed out of the house the husband
00:08:49.120sherry was pushed out i mean she wasn't like allowed to have regular contact with her siblings
00:08:55.360or her mother like it was just like and all of a sudden it felt like jody was like the head of
00:09:00.120the family and the bomb drop in the memoir is that sherry figures out that ruby and jody are
00:09:08.900in a romantic relationship. So much to ask, so much to ask about, about that. And I want to,
00:09:16.640I want to get to the memoir. I'm trying to decide if I want us to talk about your interview with
00:09:20.620Sherry first or the memoir first. There's so much. There's so, there's so much to unpack here. And
00:09:26.000it's, it's very interesting. You know, you, on one hand, you could call this intense voyeurism
00:09:33.520of a terrible scandal. But I also think it just speaks to so much about our culture right now,
00:09:42.620about social media, media in general, and also about the pressures on mothers and the performance
00:09:51.560of motherhood. There's a lot going on in here. Okay, let's take a break. Let's take a break.
00:09:57.460And when we get back, I'll tell you everything about Sherry's collaborator. And we'll start
00:10:02.220with the book and then we'll talk about your amazing interview that you just did for Rolling
00:10:07.520Stone. Great. Okay, we're back. I did indeed find Sherry's collaborator. She's super hot,
00:10:22.740by the way. She is a smoke show. Oh, jealous. Yeah, Caroline Ryder. She is an Irish-Brazilian1.00
00:10:30.140storyteller born in spain raised in london and based in la okay she's too cool i don't like this0.93
00:10:38.660oh no look at you've got her website is caroline rider.com and she she looks cool as shit like i'd0.91
00:10:44.040like hey caroline if you're listening we'd like to be friends with you like you oh my god she's0.99
00:10:48.000beautiful what's the hell i know i know we're not supposed to comment on other women's bodies but1.00
00:10:52.280she is a smoke show. I'm pissed. Yeah. So she has dabbled in coffee table books, ghost writing1.00
00:11:00.400memoirs, screenwriting. She also did, she worked with Lala Kent on Lala's and Dirty Rocker Boys
00:11:09.400by Bobby Brown. So yeah, this isn't her first go round. And maybe we should, maybe we should talk
00:11:16.080to her. Maybe we should. And I will say that this was a beautifully written book. Like it was like
00:11:21.920even if i didn't have prior knowledge of the scandal and i wasn't so interested like it was
00:11:27.380just like it was fascinating it was a page turner it was i think that's what i loved so much about
00:11:33.040it was it really was an exploration of sherry's life like this young woman trying to figure out
00:11:38.460her way through the mormon religion and through youtube fame and through this cult and it was
00:11:44.500just like oh my god anyway good job caroline and good job caroline and especially for a book that
00:11:49.860clearly, I mean, just because of what I know about publishing, it had to have been written
00:11:53.640in about three or four months. My God. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys, you guys, you guys did great.
00:11:59.600Okay. Big, big kudos. And Caroline, do you want to go have lunch or coffee?
00:12:03.620Yeah, let's hang. Let's hang. Okay. So now, now let's, let's dig into the book. By the way,0.97
00:12:10.720my prediction is this is definitely going to hit the bestseller list. Her press is so good. Who's
00:12:14.400doing her press? You know, I don't know. Oh, interesting. Interesting. I like to talk about
00:12:19.980this now more than ever, after we just went through the Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni situation,
00:12:26.760because the people behind the scenes have always mattered and have always been so powerful. And I
00:12:33.680think we should just talk about them more, to be honest, like, who has the power to get information
00:12:40.240and to get attention from people. It's something that I want to be talking more about.
00:12:47.060Yeah. So, okay. Anyway, I think this book is definitely going to hit the bestseller list.
00:12:51.920It's on top of the Amazon charts right now. Tell me the bombshells from this book.
00:12:58.780Yeah. I mean, the main one I think for me was that Jodi and Ruby were in a romantic sexual
00:13:06.040relationship which is wild on a few different fronts first of all um ruby was married which
00:13:12.620okay married people have affairs she was mormon um she both jody and ruby through this connections
00:13:21.580classroom like dogmatic principles that they espoused were like pretty homophobic is is what
00:13:27.780sherry says and they were very like against queerness and then you know behind the scenes
00:13:34.600They were so the in the book, she says, two women who preach truth while living lies who condemned queerness very publicly in their connections videos while embodying it privately.
00:13:46.720Yeah, none of that surprises me because I mean, we know for so long that that such conservative Christians, when when they do happen to be gay, they kind of explain it away.0.62
00:13:58.980And they're the ones that fight against other queer people the loudest.
00:16:04.140And there's this truly terrible scene in in the book where Sherry was a student at Brigham
00:16:10.060Young University and Kevin was an engineering professor at Brigham Young University.
00:16:14.300So this is an intelligent, really educated man. And it just goes to show that anyone can fall into something like this. But when they're both kind of estranged from the family, Sherry runs into Kevin on campus and he and she kind of like waits for him to say.
00:16:31.580I mean, that's her dad, you know, like she like, and there's this quote in the book where she says he gives this pathetic little grimace. And it's just like, and kind of just like scurries away. And she tells herself in the book, she says, let it go. He can't even help himself. He can't help us. That's, I'm paraphrasing, but that's what she said. And it was just, I mean, that was, that was really just like harrowing to me to read.
00:16:59.920yeah yeah no I mean it it does sound like Jodi Hildebrandt was really this Bengali-like figure1.00
00:17:09.120totally totally she seemed to just like come in and just take over like very quickly she was living1.00
00:17:17.020with them and then Kevin was kicked out and then Sherry was kicked out and then the kids were
00:17:22.460living in Jodi's like it was just like wow the effect that she had on this family was just
00:17:28.400incredible. Wow. Wow. All right. So what else do we have in the book? I mean, does she talk
00:17:34.940about the abuse? So she is very careful when it comes to talking about the abuse. So in Sherry's
00:17:45.580own recollections of her childhood, there are these moments that I would consider to be1.00
00:17:51.840like harbingers of like what is to come like ruby definitely has a temper she is always kind of1.00
00:18:00.060having these like emotional outbursts she'll like um flick the kids she'll like give them little1.00
00:18:05.780slaps like that kind of thing and it's just kind of like uncomfortable and you see like how it could
00:18:10.900become something else she's very emotionally withholding um but when it comes to the the0.60
00:18:18.760abuse that made headlines that didn't seem to happen until after the kids had moved into Jody's
00:18:26.840house so Sherry wasn't there and Sherry is very careful to not detail the abuse I think because
00:18:35.460it's so horrific because it's her younger siblings and because she wants to give them0.51
00:18:39.780a little bit of privacy that they've never ever been afforded so she doesn't get into the details
00:18:46.600Except to say that the pictures that she's seen and the police reports that she's seen have, you know, obviously stuck with her.
00:18:53.820I mean, I can't imagine being the oldest sister and just, oh, my God, it's just heartbreaking.
00:19:01.220And that raises an interesting point about influencing and about all of us.
00:19:05.880OK, all of us, to be honest, when we share our children on social media, you and I are both journalists who often write essays about our children.
00:19:13.820again there's a spectrum but these children and a lot of children of influencers have never had
00:19:20.740an ounce of privacy in their lives no no and and sherry talks about that and she says you know
00:19:27.300and this is something that we we had a conversation about too she says that people
00:19:31.240seem to discount her view on family vlogging being unethical and immoral because they're like well
00:19:37.960your mom was an abuser like this is different like this is a very specific case which is like
00:19:43.240obviously true but she says you never know what's going on behind the scenes like even before the
00:19:48.660abuse started we would be filming and ruby would cut the tape and then she would scream at us to
00:19:54.500get us to do it and then she would start it up and we're all smiling again you know and so for
00:19:59.300sherry it's like it doesn't have to be this this tabloid hell that it devolved into for it to be
00:20:05.900wrong does that make sense it does it does and you know from the parts of the book that i've read
00:20:12.560she's very careful you know it's a it's a carefully thought out memoir to be about her story and no
00:20:20.000one else's yes and i think she is really careful about that and she says if her siblings grow her
00:20:26.060younger siblings if they grow up and they want to tell their stories that's great and she totally
00:20:31.140welcomes that and will support them but she doesn't want to take their stories she very rarely
00:20:35.620mentions them she mentioned mentions them in passing she doesn't even really talk about her
00:20:40.040brother chad very much and she says that she told me that everything that she wrote about him in the
00:20:45.760book she ran by him um so i think she is she is very careful that she doesn't want to be exploiting
00:20:53.320the kids in the way that she thinks that her mom did right right which which is very honorable
00:20:59.440because it would have been easy to make this book even more salacious oh my god yeah if she had like
00:21:06.500oh it's just terrible to think she could have like detailed the abuse or like I'm sure that she has
00:21:12.500so so many things that the camera doesn't even know that we don't even know and I think it's
00:21:17.380really incredible and it just shows like the not to be corny but it shows like the love and
00:21:22.240protection of an older sister like I just think it's like really lovely yeah all right we're
00:21:27.600gonna take one more break and when we get back you talked to Sherry and and I want to hear a
00:21:33.320little bit about what that was like okay we're back your interview with rolling stone which also
00:21:47.520kudos for getting it all done girl and doing this rolling stone story you've still got a very tiny
00:21:54.180baby you just you're nailing a book deadline you're getting it done and i'm really proud of you
00:22:02.580I think we have to say those things. We have to pat each other on the back as often as possible. We really do. So talk to me about your interview with Sherry.
00:22:10.980Yeah, so I've been working on this for months. I've been trying to trying to get her to talk to me. She obviously has quite a bit of hesitancy around the media and journalists, which I think is like totally understandable, given her experience and kind of how people took, you know, the most salacious parts of the story and, yeah, expose the abuse of her siblings.
00:22:34.340and so I was really glad to finally be able to talk to her. We talked on Monday morning. I filed
00:22:41.580the story Monday afternoon, and it went up Tuesday, so it was a really intense couple days.
00:22:47.700All of this is a very fast turnaround. Tell me your first impressions of her. What's she like
00:22:52.000as a person? She is very well-spoken. She doesn't stumble over her words.
00:23:01.420Do you think she's been media trained up the wazoo?
00:23:19.040It didn't feel like she was just like repeating sentences that she had said before.
00:23:23.680It felt like she was telling me the truth, but she was telling me as much of the truth as she wanted.
00:23:29.060like it like it felt like she felt comfortable but that she had boundaries okay okay yeah yeah
00:23:36.940that's it that that that that tracks you know for me uh but but also um good for her yeah totally
00:23:45.240totally and I was worried that she would be like really really hesitant to speak at all but she was
00:23:49.880like open the conversation was flowing she talked about things that I didn't even um bring up because
00:23:56.180I was worried about, you know, there's, there's this terrible part of the book that we didn't
00:24:00.760get even get into about. She has this kind of like relationship with this elder married man
00:24:07.480in the church and it's abusive and it's terrible. And Sherry does not. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. As a young
00:24:15.760college student. And I just felt that, you know, I didn't see a reason to like bring that up with
00:24:21.560her but she brought it up and and we talked about it and um she was very forthcoming and i just
00:24:27.200thought um she's she really seems like a really incredible young woman she's only 21 she's a baby
00:24:32.900she's a baby yeah yeah um she's she's a baby who really wrote a book very quickly yeah we're like
00:24:40.440so impressed i am i am i'm always impressed when people right when people get things out there
00:24:45.460quickly i'm always impressed um so tell me a little bit more about this affair with the married
00:24:50.800man because a lot of this book is as much about her faith and struggling with the with her faith
00:24:56.460which look so many of the women in the influencing community come from the mormon community so the
00:25:05.360mormon faith is intrinsically tied up with this massive amount of influencing in our country and
00:25:14.000we you know the ballerina farm brand the nara smith brand these these are all coming out of
00:25:19.260Mormonism so it's something worth examining yeah as a faith yeah I totally agree and I think the
00:25:26.720fascinating thing is that yeah Sherry has this like this terrible experience with this man and
00:25:31.840it seems like towards the end of the book she's still kind of coming to grips with like
00:25:35.960was this consensual was this not was this like I think by the end she realizes that it was not
00:25:43.320something that she had wanted or asked for and I just I don't want to make judgments upon it
00:25:49.060um I'm trying to be really careful with how I don't judge anyone for something they've done0.99
00:25:53.380in their 20s yeah no totally it's just like the way that I read it I'm just like fuck this dude0.97
00:25:59.580and he's a creep and a predator like honestly like that's how I read it and like I just don't0.99
00:26:04.820want to put that judgment like anyway but the point is is eventually she you know comes clean
00:26:11.640about like whatever this experience is that she's had and she loses her temple recommend which is
00:26:17.620basically the thing that allows you to go into the church as like a it's like a card carrying
00:26:22.460member kind of thing and um i'll just let you guess joe do you think that the man lost his
00:26:27.500no no of course not no no no he didn't much much like i was talking to someone else i was talking
00:26:36.820to emily this morning about the rfk olivia nosy scandal i'm like oh you know she just lost her
00:26:43.300job and her fiance and you know all of all of all of her life and he's going to be nominated
00:26:49.160for the administration so yeah there's no consequences for men no there are no consequences
00:26:56.000and it's just like so disgusting like especially in this in this um experience with share like this
00:27:02.860thing that sherry shared it's just like i hate this dude i hate him and i i hate that she had
00:27:11.780faced consequences and that he didn't and she has this like really interesting part of the book
00:27:15.960where she's like if they don't think that because he denied that anything happened at all and sherry's
00:27:21.380like if they don't think anything happened then why did i lose my temple recommend yeah yeah
00:27:27.040but there's no logic of course because it's misogyny exactly there's no logic to misogyny
00:27:33.040nothing nothing no uh okay okay now back to your interview back to your interview what did you what
00:27:38.500did y'all talk about? I mean, we talked about everything we talked about. We talked a lot about
00:27:45.280family vlogging and how she feels about it. And I think something that really I thought was
00:27:50.800interesting was she said there are no exceptions to her belief that there should be no family
00:27:56.040vloggers, no exceptions. So she just she thinks there should just not be family video bloggers
00:28:02.460at all anymore. Yes. I asked if she could wave a wand and change it. And she said I would ban
00:28:08.580all of it. Wow. Wow. Did you say why? Well, there's so many. I mean, it's the it's the
00:28:15.120reasons that we hear from everyone. Right. But it's she has the firsthand experience. So it's
00:28:18.980the privacy aspect. You know, there are videos of her or I guess now they've been taken down
00:28:24.540off of YouTube, but there are still compilations everywhere. There are videos of her crying.
00:28:28.440there are videos of her you know talking about things that are really personal videos of her
00:28:32.880siblings having tantrums or you know whatever so there's didn't her mom try to make her post a
00:28:37.300video of like the first time she shaved her legs oh my god I don't know I saw that I saw that
00:28:42.760somewhere I saw that somewhere yeah I mean I believe that 100% because it's like literally
00:28:47.280that kind of stuff is like gold for influencers right right so um there's definitely the privacy
00:28:52.920So I see it as like three things that she's worried about. Privacy, the ability to actually consent to be in the videos in a meaningful way and give informed consent, and then actually making any of the money that is made off of your likeness.
00:29:10.660Right, right. Yeah, no, it makes sense. And she's been doing a lot of work testifying in front of lawmakers and trying to push for actual legislation, right?
00:29:19.500Yeah, she is. Yeah, she was in front of the Utah State Legislature this past year. And she said there's no such thing as an ethical or moral family vlogger, which I thought was really powerful. And I think we have to listen to the voices of the people who are involved in this.
00:29:37.200And I do think that that also includes the people who are young people who were raised in it, who say, hey, actually, I love this.
00:29:45.900And I have people like that in my book. And stay tuned for that, because I do think like there are a couple, you know, there are two sides to this story and there are kids who love it.
00:29:55.440But there have to be safeguards. There just have to be. And Sherry says, you know, with these laws being passed, what amount of money is worth the privacy of your childhood?
00:30:05.420She says even if it was 100% of the profits were given to the kid, she doesn't think that that's worth it.
00:30:17.220These are the voices that we have to be listening to right now and that lawmakers need to be listening to.
00:30:23.960Although I have no faith that the government can do anything with regards to technology at this point, especially with Elon Musk having so much.
00:30:34.560let's talk about a Jodi Hildebrandt like so much Bengali like control yeah in the Trump
00:30:41.360administration the government's not no they're not coming to save us here okay so it's going to have
00:30:49.360to be more of a grassroots movement and that's why I think people like Sherry speaking up are
00:30:56.000very interesting to me yeah I think so too and I think I think you're right because the thing is
00:31:03.200family vlogging is not ever going to be outlawed. It's just not. And I mean, there's not going to
00:31:09.820be, I would bet my life savings that there will not be a federal law about child influencers.
00:31:16.060There's not even a federal law about child actors. It's state by state. So if we haven't
00:31:20.920even accomplished that, that is not going to happen. So it's going to be state by state with
00:31:26.360influencer kid laws. And I think it's going to take a really precedent setting case, which is
00:31:31.700terrible because the way that I see it is an influencer kid is going to have to come out and
00:31:36.040say, hey, I worked this many hours during my childhood and I have zero dollars to show for
00:31:42.100it. And like, that's going to be a terrible moment that sets a precedent. I mean, I think,
00:31:48.000I think that's it. I think that's, and you know, books like this and speaking out like this and
00:31:52.740Sherry is now an influencer in her own right. She has more than half a million followers on
00:31:58.660Instagram, she has a platform. You know, what I'm hoping is that she uses that platform
00:32:04.660to speak out against these kinds of things to push for change instead of doing something like0.87
00:32:09.340going on Dancing with the Stars. Well, I will say that if I learned anything from talking to her and
00:32:15.260from reading her book, I think there's like a very, very small chance that she would go that route
00:32:21.440of Dancing with the Stars and that kind of stuff. You never know. You never know who's going on
00:32:27.080dancing with the stars who was it who was the guy from the trump administration that
00:32:31.360right yeah spicer yeah spicer yeah god that was bizarre um it was so weird yeah and then like i
00:32:38.940feel like it's also like the mass singer like those kinds of people like oh my god shut your
00:32:43.900mouth i love the mass singer okay like so i i really i really freakish i love it i do i do and
00:32:50.880i don't i barely watch any tv right but but my you know my kids are obsessed with is it cake
00:32:56.660yes as am i like i have one pr goal this year and it's to be a judge on is it cake oh my god
00:33:05.540manifesting that for you i'm manifesting that right like i'm like yeah i want everyone is
00:33:10.400lying to you to be a bestseller it's gonna be i want it's totally good has everyone ordered it
00:33:15.360yet just order it now everyone is lying to you order it because you're gonna be missing out if
00:33:19.980you don't you are well i'm gonna and i'm doing events in like so many states where we're all
00:33:24.440going to dress up like trad wives and throw sourdough at bat are you coming to la i will i
00:33:28.800will you're gonna you're gonna be with me i just i haven't figured it out yet i'll let you know
00:33:32.200yeah yeah we're gonna we'll do a bunch of stuff in la because i am also going to have a camper van
00:33:37.980and be doing hashtag van life while i do this so shut up no can you also do like you remember when
00:33:44.420you were like gonna be a mom influencer yeah yeah i'm gonna return i'll return i need you to return0.92
00:33:49.400to that and to do like a limited, limited engagement, tradwives, tradwives slash van
00:33:53.720life. Yes. Like day in the life of like, blah, blah, blah. Like I need that. Oh my God. I'm so
00:33:58.720excited. No, that's, it's coming. It's, it's, it's definitely all coming. I promise you. Now
00:34:03.540I've totally, I've totally lost my train of thought. I don't even know what I was talking
00:34:06.140about anymore. This is perimenopausal brain at its finest. You know what? I don't remember either.0.99
00:34:10.640So what's my excuse? You baby brain. Oh yeah, that's true. Okay. You still, you still have0.98
00:34:17.120baby brain which is also a very very real thing um oh what it was is what sherry's gonna do next
00:34:24.000with oh what sherry's gonna do next oh and the mass singer all right so i want to be the judge
00:34:27.200on is it cake yeah we also watch the best singer all the time and my kids love it so much it is
00:34:34.720so dumb but the people on it like are always i was like troy aikman the other day the football
00:34:41.680player i just like why how how it is the weirdest it is the weirdest so weird so weird so yeah so0.95
00:34:49.080hopefully sherry's i mean whatever she can she can do that if she she wants to do mass singer i
00:34:53.540welcome her i do um my last question how is her relationship with her father now i know you guys
00:35:01.860talked a little bit about that yeah yeah so like i said she has some really striking lines about him
00:35:08.860in the book and he's portrayed as like very kind but incapable of helping his family and
00:35:15.300kind of this person who is steamrolled first by rudy and then by jody um and i can't imagine
00:35:22.180reading it if if i were him um and i asked him if he had read it and he hasn't read it yet
00:35:28.920um but he has it sherry sherry gave him a copy but they are working on their relationship they
00:35:35.460are, Sherry said it gets better every day, and that he, you know, makes no excuses for the
00:35:42.780decisions that he made, which I think is something that allows her to be in his life again. And he
00:35:49.920also is speaking out against family vlogging. And so I think having that kind of goal in common
00:35:55.260is something that really helps them. Yeah, yeah. And I hope that for her, because she also said
00:36:02.220that she wants no relationship with Ruby, understandably. Yeah. She, yeah. I asked her
00:36:06.820like, you know, when Ruby gets out of prison, like who knows when that will be, but do you
00:36:10.960want a relationship with her? And she said, absolutely not in, in no world is that going
00:36:16.860to happen. And you know, this is, that's obviously understandable, but at the same time, it's,
00:36:21.980it's heartbreaking for her. That's her mother. That's her mother. Yeah. No, it's heartbreaking.
00:36:25.620It is. It is. I want to end where the memoir starts, which is with Sherry capturing video
00:36:35.740of the police officers forcing open her family's home. And, you know, really, it starts at the end
00:36:44.640of this. And she says, this moment, this climax of my family's descent into madness needed to be
00:36:52.000documented, preserved, and shared on social media, just like every forced smile, every stage
00:36:58.620perfection had been to. This nightmare was born on social media. It should die there, too.
00:37:05.880Mic drop. Mic drop, man. Mic drop. Good job, Sherry and Caroline.1.00
00:37:12.440Yeah, what an incredible. I mean, everybody, this is not enough to listen to a podcast about it.
00:37:19.440like obviously we gave you so much behind the scenes and it's fascinating but like you guys
00:37:23.320have to read this book like it is it is incredible and I think it's gonna it's gonna go down in
00:37:28.800history because it is the first memoir from a family vlogging kid and I will say I highly doubt
00:37:34.160it will be the last oh it's not gonna be the last no no this is gonna be a whole genre of publishing
00:37:38.540yes totally totally um thank you for being here tell everyone where they can find everything that
00:37:44.440You're right. All of your stuff. I am everywhere on social media at High Fortessa, H-I-F-O-R-T-E-S-A.
00:37:52.240I am uploading reels, explaining my stories and explaining the latest legislation on child
00:37:57.760influencers. I'm on TikTok. I don't know how long TikTok as an app is going to last, but we'll see.
00:38:02.780But find me everywhere. And I have so much more coming. I have a book coming that is going to
00:38:09.100blow your minds about family vlogging and child influencers. So stay tuned. It's all going to get
00:38:15.760weirder, guys. That's our promise. So yes, keep an eye out. I'll let everyone know when that book
00:38:26.360is ready, ready to be ordered. And like I said, order, everyone is lying to you guys, because
00:38:31.520here I'm actually, I'm going to, I'm going to post a challenge next week. I want to get it
00:38:36.540ordered in an indie bookstore in every single state yes so i'm gonna i'm posting a spreadsheet
00:38:43.120uh next week where you can sign up if you're the person that buys it um in your state from a
00:38:49.400certain indie bookstore and those 51 people 52 will expand it to puerto rico and um yeah washington
00:38:57.680dc the district uh there's gonna there's gonna be a cool prize i'm figuring out what it is maybe
00:39:02.600egg aprons or something oh yes egg aprons right right yeah so get ready get ready for that um
00:39:09.880if you want to already claim your state you could totally do that do it now and then you can you can
00:39:14.540let me know once i post the spreadsheet yes let's do this all right bye guys have a great day do
00:39:20.580something nice for yourself you're all amazing smooches you're all amazing even if you don't
00:39:25.060make your own sourdough you especially if you don't make your own sourdough i tried over the
00:39:29.340break. Steven, my friend Steven Weinberg, you know, he makes the best sourdough ever. And he
00:39:35.560constantly tries to help me. He gave a starter to our neighbors, Ted and Evan, and they were able
00:39:41.780to make the sourdough. And I just, you know, I'm a fucking failure. Okay. I'm a sourdough failure.0.99
00:39:46.300At least you tried because I am literally, I could not be less interested in making my own
00:39:51.620bread. I just don't care and I will not do it. I just like to try. I like to try, but you know,
00:39:57.440I also will admit when I'm a failure, massive hashtag failure here.
00:40:02.380All right. Now we're really going. We are. Bye everyone.