Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Is This Normal？ A Truly Excellent Chat with an Influencer OB-GYN

00:00:00.000 Hey, y'all. Joe here, and you are listening to Under the Influence.

00:00:11.980 Welcome back to real life, everyone. Welcome back. That holiday break felt like forever,

00:00:20.920 right? I mean, I think that I aged about 24 years. I love my family, but there's a limit.

00:00:28.760 And then, for me, here on the East Coast in Philly, just when I thought that everyone was going back to school, just when I thought I was going to have a full day of work today, there was a snow day.

00:00:41.780 Yeah, there was a whole, like, inch of snow, and the whole city just shut the F down. 0.99

00:00:47.620 I just, I have to say, I think that this is proof that God just isn't a woman. 1.00

00:00:53.160 And they're not very benevolent. 1.00

00:00:55.300 Mm-mm.

00:00:56.160 Mm-mm. 0.89

00:00:56.560 anyway my kids are watching a lot of crap on tv right now because we we are back i am back and 0.95

00:01:03.760 i've got shit to do and honestly this year on the podcast is going to be a lot of fun i've got i've 0.95

00:01:10.820 got big plans for us this week alone i'm talking to some folks from meta you know meta the giant 0.93

00:01:18.000 megalith behind facebook and instagram and you know you know that you've really made it when

00:01:23.740 meta finally agrees to talk to you instead of just directing you to their online faqs the way they

00:01:28.480 have for the past four years i'm psyched let's see let's see how this goes for everyone involved

00:01:34.040 i am coming into this new year pretty hot pretty hot i may not be well rested but i've been eating

00:01:41.740 a lot of protein and wearing my witted vest and i also got one of those led red light masks that

00:01:47.960 goes on my face, so my forehead is currently as shiny as Nicole Kidman's. Mm-hmm. I can hardly

00:01:54.640 look at myself in the mirror. While I wear my stupid LED red light mask, I can't really do 1.00

00:02:00.820 anything except for scroll Instagram and sometimes Twitter, which I refuse to call X. And the other 0.99

00:02:08.500 day, I came across this tweet from Elon Musk, who also has a very shiny forehead. I wonder if he has

00:02:15.520 an LED mask too. Anyway, this tweet seemed to say that he was in favor of women having more

00:02:23.260 C-sections because it might make the baby smarter. This is what he actually said.

00:02:31.100 Quote, heavy use of C-sections allows for a larger brain as brain size has historically

00:02:37.340 been limited by birth canal diameter. End quote. And this is terrifying to me because this man,

00:02:47.200 who clearly knows very little about a woman's anatomy or childbirth in general, has a lot of

00:02:54.500 power in our country. And it's not the only gonzo bananas thing that I have seen about women's 0.98

00:03:01.180 bodies and vaginas on social media lately. In fact, the misinformation about women's health 1.00

00:03:06.840 and pregnancy and childbirth seems to be worse than ever right now. Social media these days

00:03:13.820 is filled with a bunch of brand new crackpots who have no real expertise but really want to make

00:03:19.960 money off of you. To combat some of that, my guest today is Dr. Jennifer Lincoln. 0.99

00:03:26.940 Dr. Lincoln is an OBGYN, an educator, and an author. She's also on Instagram doling out

00:03:32.820 fact-based advice about women's bodies and trying to clear up misinformation.

00:03:38.000 I love following her. And today we're going to do a deep dive into birth, pregnancy, periods,

00:03:43.900 and how to tell good information from complete crap on social media.

00:03:52.600 I still think a lot about birth and pregnancy, even though my, what is definitely going to be 0.59

00:03:59.020 my last baby is about to turn two in a couple of months. I'm still, I'm still in it. I'm still in

00:04:06.820 that just, you know, breeding phase of my life. And I wish that I had had someone like you in my

00:04:16.020 phone when I started doing this eight years ago, because there was just so much either the kinds

00:04:25.320 of information i was finding when i was pregnant with charlie uh back in 2016 it was either so

00:04:32.960 clearly written or edited by a man it was very clinical or a lot of it was just kind of wishy

00:04:41.880 washy misinformation speculation mythology like it was so hard to find good real information

00:04:51.140 about what what this whole process was going to be like pregnancy and then giving birth and then

00:04:57.000 postpartum and you being on social media i just feel like you can reach people where they're at

00:05:02.780 well first of all we need to stop i also have a charlie so just that we're both learning that

00:05:07.840 about each other oh i love that i love that i love other charlie moms yes we're so we're so

00:05:16.780 good at picking names right now i know we're so good at picking names but yeah but no it's uh

00:05:21.800 i mean you are probably like me right you spend a few hours a day on your phone as much as i don't

00:05:27.000 want to admit that but that's where we go get our information now and i feel you i you know my young

00:05:33.880 i have two 13 and eight and i am also most definitely done but i still there's still this

00:05:40.020 place in my heart obviously because i deliver babies and i'm there for people but you just see

00:05:43.720 what takes hold in the media or on social media. And it's not just funny, like cute little,

00:05:49.480 you know, is it a boy or a girl? If you carry this way, it's really potentially harmful,

00:05:56.200 damaging misinformation that can also layer on a ton of shame and guilt, right? And I feel like

00:06:00.560 we as women, especially, we are just so bombarded from all things. And the last thing you need is

00:06:05.320 being made to feel guilty about a birth choice or something that happened or just being completely

00:06:09.780 unprepared because you've never learned it in school or your doctor only has 15 minutes with

00:06:14.800 you. So, yeah, so that's I that's, you know, I've still practiced, but I also use Instagram to

00:06:20.800 educate, which is like nothing I ever thought I'd do, but I love it. And I also feel like I learn

00:06:25.560 so much from people, too, and I see what they need to hear. Like, have you heard about this

00:06:29.620 trend? And I go, no, but tell me more. I need to tell me everything. Yes. Yes. Well, I want to I

00:06:36.960 want to back up a little bit to just hear how you got into this space. How did you become a doctor

00:06:43.960 who was then talking to women on social media? Yeah, I credit I've always loved to write. I

00:06:51.340 minored in English in college. I wrote for the school newspaper. I was an editor. So I've always

00:06:56.540 loved communicating. And I've also always loved breaking things down, making it simple. And I

00:07:01.680 think that the main reason I started my professional Instagram account was really

00:07:06.160 because I feel very lonely as a female physician with young kids. It just felt like, you know,

00:07:11.980 our lives are a little bit different. And I wanted to connect and I saw people on there and I thought,

00:07:17.500 oh, you know, this would be fun. And I could also educate because I'd seen as I was practicing more

00:07:22.540 what was out there, what people were saying, and that we weren't reaching people in the traditional

00:07:26.180 way in our offices or, you know, you could publish as many studies as you want. But shocker, people

00:07:31.020 read people not the new england triple medicine so how can i translate that yeah yeah yeah um

00:07:38.080 and then i just found that i i i loved communicating not just about birth and

00:07:44.400 postpartum but all things sexual and reproductive health and i i i credit slash blame my um all

00:07:50.460 girls catholic high school upbringing where it was very much of students only education i was taught

00:07:55.740 my god we are the same person we're the same person i also had a catholic high school um

00:08:05.980 upbringing and our our sex education like my girlfriends from high school and i will still

00:08:13.920 like group text each other some of the images from oh yeah yeah yeah we had that were like

00:08:21.860 literally just like a picture a cartoon of a frog in a pot of oiling water that was like just don't

00:08:29.840 let things get too hot and that's right yeah yeah and that's how they taught abstinence 0.70

00:08:34.080 abstinence uh there was no talk of condoms and that was only for sinners and girls who went to

00:08:39.480 hell i mean no totally you didn't even think about those you did not even knew that you had 1.00

00:08:44.540 a clitoris then you were certainly gonna burn in the fire absolutely not yeah totally of course you 0.98

00:08:49.360 work and they i remember this one assembly where they gave us snapple bottle caps um that with a 0.99

00:08:59.820 sticker on it that said just say no and they were our chastity clickers and if we got overwhelmed

00:09:05.980 with desire we were supposed to whip out this this snapple bottle cap and click it it's phenomenal

00:09:12.480 i really hope the people of snapple are listening because i really that is that is yeah so i had a

00:09:19.560 nun sister claire veronica um in our morality class which was a great way to teach to where

00:09:24.160 to put sex ed right um and she told us that if we were with our boyfriends all the things we could

00:09:28.260 do other than you know have naughty thoughts and she said uh you could toss a salad and all these

00:09:34.360 girls started laughing because they knew what tossing a salad was i had no idea because i was 1.00

00:09:38.940 the best catholic school girl and like years later but sister claire veronica was kind of dirty i 0.89

00:09:44.680 don't think she knew it but yeah so i've talked about this stuff you know different college

00:09:48.840 campuses where i've done some of these talks and i feature her and the stories and yeah so now i

00:09:55.200 don't know revenge slash healing like this is what i talk about every day and i love it as as well

00:10:01.640 you should as well you should i mean we're just like we could have so many sidebars right now

00:10:06.480 uh also because i somehow ended up talking about periods with our our male like trainer at the gym

00:10:12.740 today and he was just like yeah he's like i don't know he's like should i be learning about periods

00:10:16.480 when i'm training women and i'm like yeah it's a woman body yeah so thank you thank you for saying

00:10:24.000 period in the middle of the gym he did it he didn't pass out that was awesome yeah i'm like

00:10:27.980 that is a step forward that is a step forward uh so so you start posting on instagram you're

00:10:34.400 posting knowledge you're you're posting science you're posting fact-based information and did

00:10:41.020 you find that people were hungry for this yes and so i will tell you so this was pre-covid

00:10:46.960 you know when normal people were not on tiktok no self-respecting adult um but in i think like

00:10:54.020 november december right before the pandemic um you know people other people who i'd gotten close

00:10:59.300 to you meet some really cool people of mine um and they said hey jan like you need to be on tiktok

00:11:03.640 like you, especially like your sex education, reproductive stuff, periods, all the things like

00:11:08.460 this is where young people are and they're so hungry for it. And I feel the longest time said

00:11:12.060 I refuse. I will not. But then I did. I said, let me just try it out. And actually my first

00:11:17.000 video got censored. It got removed because I think I said the word something like six once or,

00:11:22.060 you know, whatever. I didn't know my word. I was like, well, I'll just post it again. I threw it

00:11:25.780 up again. I went to bed. I woke up. It had something like over a million views. And it's

00:11:31.820 so cheesy but like the rest is history and it was you know it just it really took off um and I was

00:11:37.540 able to I was very thankful I was able to get a really big following and just see what people

00:11:42.180 needed to know and it wasn't always complicated videos it was you know do you know how many holes

00:11:46.300 you have down there you know like when you can get pregnant or pretty basic things and the vast

00:11:52.180 majority of the responses have been amazingly supportive people saying thank you so much

00:11:56.980 i've learned so much you know there's always a few trolls and there's people

00:12:00.460 like this is not why i watch tiktok and then i write well you just commented so now you're

00:12:05.320 going to see a whole lot more you just told the algorithm you liked it so welcome to the

00:12:08.540 club my friend welcome welcome but it is it's been it's been really fun especially um you know

00:12:16.200 in a covid times and in a post row times just where you feel like there's nothing you can do

00:12:20.560 to help um being able to use your little phone to get some advice or information out there when

00:12:25.580 people are not getting it. Like the 16-year-old version of me, like that's what I think of when

00:12:28.880 I'm making these videos and thinking, okay, what I need to know about chlamydia or pregnancy or

00:12:34.480 birth control, you know? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. All of those things. You know, I just thought of

00:12:39.660 something that I wasn't going to ask you yet, but it just popped into my mind. Do your videos still

00:12:45.420 get censored because you're talking about sex, because you're talking about vaginas and breasts 0.99

00:12:51.260 and things that Instagram and social media 0.99

00:12:53.140 does like to censor.

00:12:54.860 Yeah, you know, so the answer is yes.

00:12:58.220 Most recently on TikTok,

00:13:01.040 it just doesn't get out there as much as it used to.

00:13:04.220 And I think a lot of it is because I am doing

00:13:06.120 a lot of reproductive health and abortion content now

00:13:08.500 in the election season, they're really tamping down.

00:13:10.900 But I will tell you, on Instagram,

00:13:13.400 my stuff is doing fantastic.

00:13:15.340 And same thing on YouTube where stuff does okay.

00:13:18.800 But I think part of it too

00:13:19.800 is because I've got a bigger account.

00:13:21.520 And so maybe that changes

00:13:22.720 how successful I am in things getting through

00:13:26.240 because I have had friends who said,

00:13:27.780 well, I want to start to,

00:13:28.720 or I've got a smaller account.

00:13:30.660 My, oh, sorry, my phone just went crazy.

00:13:32.700 Say that again.

00:13:34.480 My friends who've had smaller accounts

00:13:36.280 who have not been able to get stuff out there

00:13:38.440 that gets taken down.

00:13:39.560 And so I think the lesson there 0.95

00:13:40.960 is that all of these platforms are ridiculous 0.99

00:13:43.880 and don't make any sense. 0.98

00:13:45.100 And what they choose to censor

00:13:46.920 does not follow any sort of actual, you know, rhyme or reason. And I just, I just try to

00:13:54.160 saturate it. And, you know, some stuff works and some stuff doesn't. Right. It's a weird time for

00:13:59.500 being online. I mean, it's a weird time to be a human being in the world right now. Yeah. It's

00:14:05.280 just strange. It's strange to be alive. We're going to take a quick break. And when we get back,

00:14:09.520 I want to hear what the most asked questions are. Like, what are women really hungry to know 0.99

00:14:16.900 from you that they're not getting anywhere else okay and we're back now i want i want all of the 0.86

00:14:30.900 tea i want to know what are women hungry for from you what what kinds of information are they just

00:14:37.160 not finding anywhere else oh that is a good one so i would say the number one theme that comes

00:14:44.960 across is normal? Is this normal? And, you know, it's whatever. Is it normal that my breasts are

00:14:53.580 two different sizes? Is it normal that I don't orgasm from vaginal sex? Is it normal that, 0.99

00:14:59.500 you know, I have heavy periods? And some of these questions are so basic, which breaks my heart

00:15:07.400 because I'm thinking, oh my goodness, how have we not taught people? And it's not because people

00:15:11.620 aren't smart and they're not trying to get information. But as we've said, you're not

00:15:15.840 getting it in school. And if you're a parent and you weren't taught it, how are you going to teach

00:15:18.720 your kids? But another big thing about, you know, is this normal is I see a lot of questions and

00:15:26.460 content related to things that tend to get pretty big on social media. So we're talking about birth

00:15:32.180 control, birth control misinformation. Is it going to give me cancer? Is it going to make it harder

00:15:37.340 to get pregnant in the future um so many questions about that because on the other side of of of

00:15:43.400 reproductive health tiktok are a lot of influencers who put out a ton of misinformation oftentimes

00:15:49.540 with no actual training but they'll say they have these credentials like a hormone expert a wellness

00:15:54.440 expert a cycle syncing expert that's my favorite um and then they'll sell you the program the detox

00:15:59.720 the cleanse the tea the book the the you know master class blah blah blah when they're really

00:16:05.540 smart because they make a lot of money. I mean, they make, they make so much money. Okay. Like

00:16:10.500 these, these completely uncredentialed experts, um, who are selling these BS courses who I have

00:16:18.780 fallen prey to, by the way, I will tell you it like, wait, they're so confident. It has to be

00:16:25.680 right. Right. They're so confident. I definitely, definitely bought a baby sleep course from a

00:16:31.120 charlatan ones. And it was just always all the same stuff that you see all the time, right?

00:16:36.000 Yeah. Swallow them and shush them. And then I was so mad. But then I was also like, there's no

00:16:41.420 recourse because I just bought this from a stranger on Instagram. Right. And yeah. And so and when it

00:16:45.740 comes to like the birth and pregnancy, breastfeeding, parenting stuff, that stuff is, you know,

00:16:50.980 definitely there as well. And I think that it it speaks to the fact that we are failing

00:16:57.120 women especially but patients in health care um and i think about how you know another common

00:17:03.320 thing that i hear all the time is actually i've got a message in my dms just 30 minutes ago that

00:17:07.680 i got to go i can't respond to this right now of my doctor's not listening to me who who do you

00:17:13.880 recommend where do i go for help because people feel like they're hitting a wall um and they're

00:17:18.020 not feeling empowered or they're not feeling heard and you know we have to own that in the

00:17:23.180 medical community. I like to think that the people you see out there are all great and communicative

00:17:27.140 and spend time and a lot of us do. So I don't want anybody listening here to think that you can't

00:17:31.640 find the doctor or midwife or nurse practitioner for you. There's amazing ones out there. But the

00:17:35.600 truth is, is that there are some crappy ones out there and we have the world of insurance where

00:17:41.140 you get 15 minutes to see people. So I get why people turn to these because we're not meeting

00:17:45.740 them and it makes them really hard. So I feel for these people. I feel for everyone. I really do.

00:17:52.260 And yes, I mean, for every amazing doctor that spends all of all of the time with their

00:17:57.860 patients, you have a doctor who, for whatever reason, cannot.

00:18:00.880 And we are all living in this crazy health care bureaucracy.

00:18:04.440 So there's not a whole lot of time.

00:18:06.240 We don't all you know, when I was growing up, I we had one family doctor and we all

00:18:12.340 saw that family doctor.

00:18:14.060 So they knew everything about all of us when I wanted to get birth control.

00:18:18.540 that is the person who recommended me then to an OBGYN you know it was just it was so

00:18:24.900 integrated in a way that I really don't even have a proper GP anymore so yeah my OBGYN is

00:18:33.980 pretty much my GP because I've been breeding for eight years but in breeding you are not you are

00:18:41.100 not a childless cat lady is what you're saying I love no no no I mean in an in another in another

00:18:46.580 multiverse I definitely am but not in this one not in this one you know wouldn't it be kind of

00:18:50.520 relaxing and like I think about that person I think about that person in the multiverse in the

00:18:54.980 other multiverse I'm like how are you doing today did you work out like yeah yeah or did you yeah

00:19:00.600 do you eat nine stray chicken nuggets off a child's plate yeah yeah and so I think what you

00:19:09.360 said about the, is this normal? I mean, that hits so hard because especially during pregnancy, I had

00:19:17.460 so many, I don't know how many times I Googled, is this normal? Is this stuff coming out of my

00:19:24.320 vagina? Is this a normal thing? And so, yeah, we're just, we are so hungry and desperate for 1.00

00:19:31.100 someone to say, yeah, that's okay. That's okay. You've got this. But it's 95% of the time,

00:19:38.880 it's probably fine right right exactly but then you google it and it's either cancer or it's

00:19:43.940 totally fine you're like wait but what but which one and what about the in-between like how who

00:19:48.680 what and what and what about the in-between i mean i and i have to say you know going back to

00:19:55.420 the people who are quote-unquote experts in all of the things especially on social media i feel

00:20:01.580 like they are preying on women and birthing parents at their most vulnerable time because

00:20:09.760 we're scared, especially with the first one. We have no idea what is about to happen to us.

00:20:16.880 And so, yes, this is a great time to swoop in and be like, you know, if your baby is not facing

00:20:23.300 the right way at four or five months, you should probably hire a baby turning expert, which I also

00:20:29.820 did in san francisco i hired a baby turning expert um i was probably like seven months pregnant

00:20:39.740 um and i also had a doula for my first baby because when you live in san francisco

00:20:44.740 yeah yeah well also like i had never heard of a doula till i lived to san francisco

00:20:49.320 yeah well then the west coast we got all the good stuff but i yeah let's all the stuff all the stuff

00:20:54.580 i mean but like the girl like anyone sees a pregnant belly and like the girl at the checkout

00:20:59.200 line at Bi-Right was like, I'll doula you. And I'm like, okay. That's not how it works. 0.93

00:21:03.820 That's not how it works, but that is how, that is what happens. So my doula, which was very useful

00:21:09.580 for my first birth because we knew nothing, but brought in a baby flipping expert. He like

00:21:14.520 literally had me just like lay upside down on the couch. And you know what? He turned when he was

00:21:20.060 ready to turn. I know. And that's really, I think that's what bothers me because there is this

00:21:25.280 mistrust and a lot of these people, companies, industries, whatever, they capitalize on that

00:21:30.480 fear. And so, um, you know, and, and, and then you'll have a 20 second TikTok that will say,

00:21:36.460 um, if you don't do this, you'll end up with a C-section, right? Or birth control causes cancer.

00:21:42.520 And what I try to do with my content is, is, you know, give references, show both sides,

00:21:47.260 like, like, yeah, you're right. Birth control could increase your risk of breast cancer,

00:21:51.460 but here's actually how little it is. And did you know, it decreases your risk of these other

00:21:54.400 cancers and blah, blah, blah. And then let people make informed decisions. But the sensationalism,

00:21:59.360 especially in a world now where distrust is so high for the medical professional after a pandemic,

00:22:03.740 like it's just not, it's not, it's not okay. And these are people who do not subscribe to any sort

00:22:10.080 of board certification or licensing. And so then you can't even report them other than leave a

00:22:15.680 comment. That's like, could you stop? And then they block you. And so it's, it's, it's so

00:22:22.760 frustrating which is why i want to give people the tools to say hey that doesn't sound right how

00:22:27.240 how do i know if this person is a good source of info or not like what are the red flags um

00:22:32.740 and i feel like that's a lot of it because when you empower people to do that like you could

00:22:36.640 whack them all day there will always be a new trend a new fad a new whatever um how do we

00:22:41.140 empower people to know what's legit what's not how to ask questions um and get heard and get

00:22:47.180 help when they really need it so well yeah and how do you empower people to play whack-a-mole all

00:22:52.820 day how like what is your best advice for the sifting through all of this myths and disinformation

00:22:58.440 yeah i it's funny because i actually have a whole slide i give a few talks about social media and

00:23:04.340 whatnot and it's it's like a you know choose your own adventure where you start out with let's say

00:23:09.120 they're you know anytime you go to somebody's account or you see something you're like it's

00:23:12.720 not real. It's the going through this. Are they an expert? So do they have, you know, real

00:23:17.740 qualifications or are they just self-proclaiming? Then are they an expert in this? Because I'm an

00:23:22.820 expert in vaginas and uteruses. But if all of a sudden I'm telling you to buy a supplement for 1.00

00:23:26.900 your heart health, like I have gone off the rails and I need to get back in with you. So are they

00:23:31.100 an expert in what they're talking about? Does it sound too good to be true? Because if it is,

00:23:35.680 if it does, it probably is. Do they have references? And if so, will they share them with

00:23:39.980 you. Now, this gets tricky because not all references are created equal and understanding

00:23:43.400 scientific studies is a challenge. Even for me, I have to really dive into it. And if any of those

00:23:48.660 are the wrong answer, you put it in the dumpster fire that is social media. And then if it's not,

00:23:52.840 you have found the unicorn and you should follow it, like, subscribe, all the things.

00:23:56.120 Forever. Forever. Forever. And I tell people to block. You, even your subconscious will take

00:24:01.380 things in. So if you scroll, you're not engaging, but maybe block these people, take them off your

00:24:07.040 feed and don't interact with them because that also serves the algorithm, which is really hard

00:24:10.800 for me sometimes. Sometimes I do. And then sometimes I have to be a grown up to walk away.

00:24:14.740 But it can be hard. It can be really hard. And I would also say, like, ask somebody you trust.

00:24:20.340 So if you've got an OBGYN, like I love it when people like they're like, is this real? Like

00:24:24.660 when they're, you know, they're in triage. Like, oh, yeah, that's actually really cool. And here's

00:24:27.980 why. Or no, that's the worst thing ever. Like, please don't ever listen to that person ever

00:24:32.240 again. And it also helps us block that person and don't watch that video. Yes, exactly. And report

00:24:38.360 things for misinformation. I know it feels like we're all shouting into a void. But if we do it,

00:24:42.680 we help teach the algorithm, which is terrible and profit driven, but we can do a little bit

00:24:47.920 of good. So try and empower people. Try and empower people. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right.

00:24:53.180 We're going to take one more quick break. And when we get back, I want to talk. I want to get

00:24:57.140 into the nitty gritty of some things, you know, some questions that I wish I had had answered

00:25:01.840 going into this process. Okay, we're back. Now I want to talk about some of the like nitty gritty

00:25:17.940 stuff, just like, you know, the things that I would have liked someone to tell me going into

00:25:23.560 this crazy process of giving birth because all of my births have been so different. With my first

00:25:29.560 one, the labor was 36 hours. I went to the hospital. They sent me home. With the last one,

00:25:35.160 she essentially fell out of my body and flopped on the bed like a fish. So, I mean, it's different

00:25:41.220 every time, right? And so the first thing I want to talk about is decoding different birth options.

00:25:48.900 there's a lot of options out there and i feel like a lot of women it's almost become like identity

00:25:54.740 politics in a way it's like well i'm a hospital birther or i'm a home birther and like this says

00:25:59.460 every single thing about me um and so like what are the different options for giving birth these

00:26:04.800 days i'm so glad we're talking about this because i agree and if you'd asked me when i was in training

00:26:10.920 like earlier in my career i would have said well if you choose a home birth you know

00:26:14.380 you know your baby could die so good luck with that and if you choose a hospital birth well

00:26:20.680 you're obviously smarter and that was honestly because as i was learning things were new and

00:26:25.780 when you're learning new things you're terrified of anything that can go wrong and i was at an

00:26:29.460 academic center where the only people we saw come in from home were honestly like the really bad

00:26:34.680 cases a lot of the time so right of course of course because you don't see the good cases because

00:26:38.480 they have no reason to come to the hospital yeah exactly so definitely selection bias and so um

00:26:43.920 So I have changed as I, I want to say get more experience and get older, but the fact of the

00:26:50.260 matter is, is that you do have choices, but knowing that not all these choices are available

00:26:54.240 to everybody, depending on where you live. We know that one third of all counties in the United

00:27:00.400 States are maternal care deserts where there's not even an OBGYN or a midwife anywhere nearby.

00:27:05.680 So sometimes you don't always have the choice to go to a hospital quick enough, like you said,

00:27:10.660 Like if you're having your third baby and they come out or you want a home birth or a birth center birth, but you don't have the access for that option.

00:27:17.980 But we do have options.

00:27:19.320 And the place that most babies are born in the U.S. is is in a hospital.

00:27:22.820 So I think we're pretty familiar with that.

00:27:24.340 So I won't go into it in too much detail.

00:27:25.940 But yeah, I think that, you know, the pros of it is that you've got access to emergency level care.

00:27:30.700 You've got access to all the things.

00:27:32.440 Well, theoretically, if they have a labor and delivery unit open.

00:27:35.280 So you should check that first.

00:27:36.320 Some of them don't.

00:27:37.640 Some of them don't.

00:27:38.400 I mean, that is something.

00:27:39.160 Some of them don't.

00:27:39.700 Yeah.

00:27:39.880 That is something to really remind people about right now is that there are a lot of

00:27:45.620 hospitals.

00:27:45.960 You may be like, oh, I'll be fine.

00:27:47.180 There's a hospital down the road.

00:27:49.060 They may not have a labor and delivery unit.

00:27:51.800 Right.

00:27:52.060 And they may have six months ago, but now they don't.

00:27:54.900 We're seeing units closed down because labor, so many people in the birthing community say,

00:27:59.360 well, you know, we do what we do as OBGYNs because we want to make money.

00:28:02.580 I will tell you, and every hospital CMO and OBGYN will tell you that every labor and

00:28:08.920 labor and delivery unit, we lose money because what we do is so poorly compensated, which

00:28:16.000 could be a whole other episode of why.

00:28:17.760 There could be a whole other episode.

00:28:19.260 Yeah.

00:28:19.580 Oh, yes.

00:28:20.240 Yeah.

00:28:20.460 So so they're losing money.

00:28:22.720 They're closing down.

00:28:23.400 And then the real reality is OBGYNs are leaving, you know, especially abortion restrictive

00:28:27.820 states.

00:28:28.160 So you do need to know that.

00:28:29.800 But you also need to know even if you do have one, there are different levels.

00:28:32.300 So some have blood banks.

00:28:34.100 Others don't.

00:28:34.840 Some have trauma.

00:28:36.040 Others don't.

00:28:36.580 So hospitals can be great.

00:28:38.040 overall they've got it you know they've got what you need if you need have an emergency need an

00:28:41.860 emergency emergency c-section that's going to be your best place to do it but the cons are that

00:28:46.780 we do we have higher rates rates of interventions right and i think that just makes sense

00:28:50.820 um it also may feel more medicalized and if you're worrying about cost that's a real thing too

00:28:56.820 um you have the you know what i say it's sort of like the opposite which is a home birth which is

00:29:01.760 birthing at home with a midwife or unassisted this is called free birth where you have nobody

00:29:07.360 around who could help out. I feel like that's a whole separate category. And I think we have to

00:29:12.140 be honest that if you are low risk, full term, and you can go through sort of a risk categorization

00:29:17.740 process that for those people who choose to deliver at home, like be justified, honestly,

00:29:24.640 you don't have to leave your house. It can feel really nice and cozy. You if you've got other

00:29:29.140 kids, it just you know, you don't have to worry about child care. And these usually are assisted

00:29:34.200 by midwives who will also come to your house for your prenatal and postnatal visits, which

00:29:38.260 I think sounds so amazing than having to go in.

00:29:41.240 Did you imagine like not having to go in every week?

00:29:44.060 It sounds amazing.

00:29:45.400 Okay.

00:29:45.580 Like going in every week during those last few weeks of pregnancy is so much.

00:29:53.080 I mean, I could barely, yes, not even, not even, it was like four minutes.

00:29:57.120 Okay.

00:29:57.560 Yeah.

00:29:57.920 For them to be like, you're doing great, mama.

00:29:59.940 And I'm like, I got, I got off the couch for this.

00:30:03.420 Yeah.

00:30:03.520 I think when it comes to where you choose to birth, access, of course, is the first thing,

00:30:09.640 what's even available to you. And then it's about making that informed decision. It's not,

00:30:14.580 if you have a baby in a hospital, you will end up with an epidural and a pitocin and then a C-section

00:30:19.040 or forceps. Or you'll have your baby at home and you'll die because you'll bleed out. Like,

00:30:24.260 again, the truth is somewhere in the middle. And it's about finding someone you trust to figure

00:30:28.500 out what place works for you with the overarching theme that if you choose to birth at home or in

00:30:32.960 a birth center and you come into a hospital, if anybody is listening, take this away that you

00:30:37.260 deserve to be treated with respect and not to be judged for your decisions. So my work as an OB

00:30:42.820 hospitalist, which means that we do a lot of things. But one thing that we do is we take any

00:30:47.600 patients who come in who are transferred from home or the birth center. And it can be totally

00:30:52.380 chaotic situations or just really stressful because somebody who had, they don't want to see me. Like

00:30:58.260 I was the last person they wanted to put their plan. You were, you were, you were not part of

00:31:02.220 the plan hey i was not i was not wanted but and i'm okay with that but then they have to come in

00:31:07.360 and maybe they've been pushing for four hours or they've started bleeding and we have to form this

00:31:12.180 acute bond and i have to get them to trust me and i have to get all the information and i have to

00:31:16.200 coordinate my team and i love it and the people i do who i work with as other ob hospitalists we all

00:31:21.540 we do this really well but i also know that that's not the case elsewhere and i have seen

00:31:25.580 people who have chosen to avoid the hospital because they were like i felt like i was mocked

00:31:29.300 So why the hell would I go back there for my next baby?

00:31:31.960 I'm like, I wouldn't either.

00:31:33.460 I get it.

00:31:33.980 So it is all about what feels right for you, not just because you saw a TikTok that said,

00:31:38.260 well, you're not a real mom if you didn't do this at home in your tub or in the woods

00:31:42.380 or something like that.

00:31:43.400 Like, that's just just not OK to guilt or shame people into any of these options, I

00:31:47.720 would say.

00:31:48.660 It is not OK to guilt or shame people.

00:31:50.780 I mean, and that, you know, one of my big concerns about social media and women and

00:31:56.400 birth is that there is a lot of guilting and shaming involved. You know, it's you're not a

00:32:02.840 quote unquote good mother if you get pain medication or if you don't have a home birth or

00:32:10.040 if you don't breastfeed. And it's just and it's usually women laying this on other women, 1.00

00:32:17.920 which is just so heartbreaking. And that's what I really want to see less of. I want to see way

00:32:23.140 less guilt and shame because we're all doing this we're all making hard choices and none of it is

00:32:29.100 easy yeah i yeah it's it is you know you were talking about the frog in the pot it always makes

00:32:35.100 me think of like the crabs you know pulling each other down like we're just pulling each other down

00:32:39.280 in the pot yeah you know because we're saying oh did you know that if you you took tylenol your

00:32:44.160 baby's gonna have autism you had an epidural your baby's gonna have adhd you didn't have a c-sec or

00:32:48.060 you had a c-section your baby's gonna have allergy issues and you just want to look at these people

00:32:51.740 and go that was an inside thought like why did that come why would you say this that is i will

00:32:59.760 say i have to say social social media has really really just just allowed a lot of people to say

00:33:05.220 their inside thoughts and outside outside yeah yeah like why would you why would you ever guilt

00:33:12.300 or shame another mother when we all know how freaking hard it is right and at the end of the

00:33:17.720 day when you you know my oldest is 13 and I think of you know well I just feeding a McDonald's good

00:33:25.820 thing I worried so much about the whatever I did whatever I mean yes of course we you know you want

00:33:31.940 to be safe whatever blah blah blah but whether or not I had an epidural is not the reason that he

00:33:36.400 is picking up Spanish quickly or not like let's be real like this is it's just so silly sometimes how

00:33:41.900 we get into these rabbit holes and the internet can be a nasty place for people especially if

00:33:46.760 they're dealing with postpartum depression, anxiety. It's just it's it can be so sad to see

00:33:51.340 that. So sad. So sad. And just and also exhausting when the last thing that you need is to be

00:33:58.540 exhausted. Yeah, totally. I do think there's something to be said for preparing in whatever

00:34:04.680 way feels right for you. And I think that there's also there's overdoing. So if you are doing

00:34:11.840 something to prepare, whether it's take a class, read a book, buy the online program or watch some

00:34:18.680 videos, some YouTube videos or some TikToks. I think those can be great as long as when you do

00:34:24.460 that afterwards, you check in and you go, do I feel less anxious and more informed or do I feel

00:34:28.880 just scared shitless now? We can say whatever we want on here. Fantastic. All right. It is funny

00:34:36.700 because people also say that in my house. They're like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry I cursed in front

00:34:40.020 of your kids and I'm like, they live with me, unfortunately. And, you know, I'm not saying

00:34:44.940 that that is that is a good thing, but they do. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a Jets fan and my kids

00:34:51.320 learned some new four letter words this past Monday night. Anyway, it's fine. I bet they did.

00:34:55.960 It's not good. But yeah, so I think that it's really good for people to be informed, but to

00:35:01.000 get it from a place that feels that they're not trying to sell you something or guilt you and

00:35:05.440 just feels like they align with your values. And I'm talking about from what knowing when to go to

00:35:10.440 the hospital, to what to expect when you're there, to afterwards, to how to speak up if you feel like

00:35:17.140 you're not getting the answers you need. But I really do think that sometimes it can be overboard

00:35:22.260 and to really curate whose opinions you solicit and you listen to because everybody has an opinion

00:35:29.820 for someone who's pregnant or, you know, where they want to say, well, oh my God, my story, 0.96

00:35:33.740 let me tell you how i ripped between my vagina to my rectum and now i and you're like why would 0.96

00:35:38.860 you share that story like why did you share that story oh my god like now i'm just gonna you know 0.99

00:35:42.780 go run away so there's you just want to be one of my biggest fears that i was going to rip between 0.99

00:35:48.200 my vagina and my rectum and be pooping all of the time yes i was yeah yeah i know i know and i think 0.97

00:35:55.240 that it's just important to take that information in i do really think and there's probably going 0.98

00:36:00.100 Maybe an OBGYN that's listening to this is, what is she saying?

00:36:03.020 But I think a birth plan is actually a really good idea.

00:36:05.500 But to frame it as birth preferences and to really highlight what's important to you and

00:36:10.880 to make an informed one and understand that some of the things that are on some of these

00:36:15.160 birth plans are, we haven't been, we haven't done them for years or decades and to really

00:36:19.060 highlight what's important and to discuss what's important with, you know, to you with

00:36:23.220 your provider or midwife or your OBGYN.

00:36:25.120 So you don't just show up and go, wait, I wanted to labor in the tub, but there's no

00:36:28.920 tub here.

00:36:29.380 nobody told me that and then be super disappointed um so i think getting your support network i think

00:36:34.940 whoever you choose to have in the room make sure you're you're happy having them there for all the 0.99

00:36:39.180 things including seeing your vagina if not maybe you just text him after maybe you just send him 1.00

00:36:43.840 afterwards not a vagina of the baby that's of the baby of the baby or your vagina if that is your 1.00

00:36:49.220 jam you know i'm not no judgment here no judgment what are what are some of the biggest things that 0.99

00:36:57.600 you see on TikTok and Instagram that you wish you could say, I wish we could completely take this

00:37:03.060 off of these platforms? I wish that we could completely stop the home birth versus hospital

00:37:10.600 birth animosity because we've talked about the differences and, you know, you can't be for bodily

00:37:18.160 autonomy and letting people have their choices about what they do with their bodies. But then

00:37:22.320 when it comes to where they have their babies, they can feel guilty for it. It just doesn't

00:37:25.900 makes sense to me. And I'm saying this as the medical community, that if we're looking down

00:37:29.800 on people who choose to have a home birth, you don't have to agree with that. You may not pick

00:37:34.840 it for yourself, but we need to understand why. And we need to support people. And we need to

00:37:40.760 optimize how do we help people transfer in and feel respected. And that's from my end. And from

00:37:45.140 the quote unquote influencer end are people who are like, well, I had my home birth and

00:37:49.780 I'm so superior and my baby, you know, I can't believe you went to a hospital. You know,

00:37:54.620 this also goes into like vaccines and so many things. Just this idea that, you know,

00:38:03.100 your experience is your experience. So please don't make other people feel guilty or shamed

00:38:07.400 because they needed a C-section or because they were in a hospital. We need to stop shaming people

00:38:11.840 for their birth choices, for their feeding choices, for all of these things. And like you said,

00:38:17.560 it's often women doing it to ourselves. Like, how are we still in 2024 trying to tear each other 1.00

00:38:24.520 down rather than saying you know rules of kindergarten if you don't have anything nice

00:38:27.960 to say don't say it and don't say that i i often assume that a lot of the education uh that that

00:38:36.520 is being put out there about birth and women's bodies on social media is targeted to women but

00:38:42.700 i'm also hoping that men are absorbing it because i just i want all of the men to have all of the

00:38:51.240 information about how our bodies work and how many holes are down there and you know all of

00:38:58.580 the things that i'm trying to raise a boy you know who's very comfortable talking about periods who

00:39:03.380 knows what a period is because we i have to say when when i was growing up um periods were so

00:39:11.300 cloaked in shame yeah so you know no one even wanted to say the word period if if you were

00:39:16.420 like oh god forbid you got a spot on the back of your pants it was like the worst thing that could

00:39:20.620 happened to you or if someone ever saw a tampon and i'm hoping that that will go away because it

00:39:27.440 is just body stuff and we shouldn't be ashamed of it do you think that any of your content is

00:39:33.000 reaching men and and do you do you try to talk to a male audience yeah totally um yeah so i'm you

00:39:38.960 know got two boys myself um i'm the only girl in my whole house even my cat is a boy it's you know

00:39:44.660 oh my gosh yeah that's a lot that's a lot of dude a lot of dude it's a lot of testosterone but it's

00:39:50.600 It's so they're, you know, a little stinky, but we love them.

00:39:53.480 No, I actually have some YouTube content that is specific to, you know, dads slash boys,

00:40:00.500 kind of, you know, what you need to know about your daughter's period.

00:40:03.020 And of course, it's for anyone.

00:40:04.720 And then what is hilarious is some of my content, especially on YouTube, is his watched majority

00:40:11.100 is men, which I love because I'm like, yes, you guys need to know about this, too.

00:40:16.380 And, and you should, because, you know, you might, you probably came from a woman, you know, you have a mother, you might marry one, you might have a daughter, like you need to know these things and you need to know how to support them. So yes, so much of my content, I want guys to see it. And I'll occasionally get the comment of, oh, I was just scrolling through TikTok. I didn't want to see this. But more often than not, it'll be, oh, that's cool. Now, you know, talk to my girlfriend about this or whatever.

00:40:42.940 and you see how it plays out 1.00

00:40:45.420 in the labor and delivery room,

00:40:46.680 partners who feel they can be part of the process

00:40:51.400 and we need to include that, right?

00:40:53.580 It's like with anything with reproductive health,

00:40:55.200 like we're all, this is all for all of us.

00:40:57.280 So the ones that are there

00:40:58.980 and they're really helping

00:41:00.120 because they're 50% of why this kid is here.

00:41:03.760 So they're not babysitting, they're parenting.

00:41:05.660 They need to know how to change the diaper.

00:41:07.060 They need to be included in the process.

00:41:08.740 They need to feel comfortable.

00:41:11.020 And I love seeing that.

00:41:12.940 stigma breakdown, you know? And I think we're, I think we're lucky. We've got a generation of

00:41:17.680 kids who are talking about these things. You know, my own, they've got period products in

00:41:22.260 the bathrooms. They're talking about it. They're using the right words. It's about damn time.

00:41:27.860 It's about damn time. Okay. I'm hopeful. I am. I mean, there's a lot of things I'm not hopeful 0.99

00:41:35.280 about in the world, but this is one thing that I am hopeful about. I mean, my own period talk

00:41:40.400 had to come with my son in a rest stop bathroom he's like are you dying and i'm like wow i uh

00:41:46.660 i didn't think now would be the time but it's the time my friend and here we are yeah and here we

00:41:52.520 are no i love it i know i know well tell everyone where they can find you on on the socials yeah

00:41:59.880 you can find me on tiktok instagram youtube at dr jennifer lincoln it's dr jennifer lincoln um

00:42:06.680 also my website and my first book let's talk about down there and ob-gyn answers your burning

00:42:12.920 questions um without making you feel embarrassed for asking us about all things kind of reproductive

00:42:17.840 health you can get that anywhere and yeah i will i will be on the internets you know

00:42:24.460 seeing your fun myths bubble up and ready to chat and meet us i love it thank you so much

00:42:31.460 for being on today. Thanks for having me. And that is all we have for today. Thanks for being here

00:42:38.700 with me. I hope you're as excited about this new season as I am. I hope we're all coming in hot

00:42:45.300 together. As always, if you love this podcast, share it with a friend, leave us a review. It

00:42:50.880 really does help. It does. The algorithm, my friends. It does all of the things. Also, buy

00:42:57.120 yourself a copy of Everyone is Lying to, the greatest tradwife murder mystery of all time. 0.98

00:43:01.700 Buy it now and be surprised when it shows up in July. It'll be like Christmas in July and it will 0.98

00:43:06.040 be here before you know it. Now go have a good day. Be kind to yourself. You deserve it.

00:43:27.120 Thank you.

00:43:57.120 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - January 07, 2025

Is This Normal？ A Truly Excellent Chat with an Influencer OB-GYN

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