Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - So Your Parents Are Old

00:00:00.000 Hey y'all, Jo here and you are listening to Under the Influence.

00:00:09.500 Now, as many of you know, I am a 45-year-old woman who is living squarely within the sandwich

00:00:15.440 generation. And sometimes I think I identify with the idea of being in the sandwich generation

00:00:20.960 more than I identify with being an elder millennial or a very young Gen Xer. Or as I like to call

00:00:28.340 us elder millennial, very young Gen Xers, the Goonies. Being a sandwich for Goonie is not easy.

00:00:37.160 It means that we are working on raising children while also caregiving for elderly parents.

00:00:42.420 It's a lot. It is. Nick's dad is 95 and they live in Milwaukee, so we're doing a lot of

00:00:49.220 coordinating with them remotely. And my own dad passed away nine years ago, and my mom's been

00:00:53.840 living on her own in the suburbs. This year, we decided to move her down to the city, which has

00:00:59.100 been a massive, massive thing. And while it's incredibly helpful in terms of caregiving for

00:01:06.100 our children, we're also, you know, really caregiving for her as well. And I want to talk

00:01:12.740 about that. I want to talk about it because Vanessa Gregoriadis has launched a wonderful

00:01:16.940 new podcast called So Your Parents Are Old. And she asked me to be on it. She asked if we could

00:01:22.600 do a joint episode where I tell her my sandwich generation story. The show itself is really good.

00:01:27.760 Vanessa's an amazing reporter, and I've just admired the hell out of her for years. I'm going

00:01:32.280 to drop the feed for So Your Parents Are Old into the show notes so you can listen to some more

00:01:36.320 episodes. Here's the show description. Have you ever filled dumpsters with your dead mom's junk?

00:01:42.660 I haven't with my dead mom's junk, by the way. This is just an aside. I haven't done it with 0.97

00:01:47.900 my dead mom's junk, but I did fill five dumpsters with her junk while she was still alive when I was

00:01:54.740 moving her down to the city. Yeah. Okay. Back to the description. Found yourself Googling how 0.99

00:02:00.400 irrevocable trusts work? Yes, I have. Yes, I have. Or had to reconstruct your mafioso dad's identity

00:02:07.160 after he went on the lam just to get him on Medicaid. I have not, but I have my own stories 0.99

00:02:14.060 about having to reconstruct my dad's identity after he died.

00:02:18.040 The show dives into everything from estate drama to emotional whiplash,

00:02:21.560 offering real talk and practical advice on dealing with aging parents.

00:02:25.500 I'm very excited to share my own story with you.

00:02:27.720 I want to hear your stories too, so please send me messages

00:02:30.220 and send Vanessa some messages if you have any stories

00:02:32.660 that you think should appear on So Your Parents Are Old.

00:02:36.240 Let's get into it.

00:02:38.220 I just find weird pockets to do things.

00:02:41.920 I mean, that's a great other name for this podcast. Weird Pockets of Time. Weird Pockets of Time. Like I get a text in and I'm like, okay, I need to go pick up these prescriptions for my mom. I also need to work out. So I'm going to go for like a quickie 20 minute run and then loop by the pharmacy on my way back from the run because I've got this kind of weird pocket of time.

00:03:04.700 but I've also got my AirPods in so I can get that call out of the way that I have to do.

00:03:09.400 It's like multitasking on steroids. Thank you everybody for coming back to So Your Parents

00:03:16.140 Are Old. This week we have an amazing writer, Jo Piazza, who I have sort of known for a very,

00:03:23.780 very long time. I've known of her. I'm not even sure we've met in person. This might be

00:03:29.040 one of multiple times we've talked to each other remotely but she has a fantastic podcast that you

00:03:35.300 should check out called under the influence and also the most hilarious book she became obsessed

00:03:42.360 with trad wives and she wrote a novel a thriller about that whole world called everybody is lying

00:03:50.120 to you which is a huge hit and she's been running around touring with it so we are going to talk to

00:03:55.680 her about all things taking care of kids taking care of parents how you balance your work as well

00:04:02.320 the famous three shifts that we all do the third shift being dealing with your parents thanks so

00:04:08.560 much joe thanks for being here thank you so much for having me on i love that intro and yeah i don't

00:04:13.800 know if we have met in person and if we did it was a gazillion years ago when we were like running

00:04:20.120 around in new york media like baby chickens with our heads cut off i know we probably even look

00:04:25.520 different you know sarah silverman has this bit of like oh my god i've gotten so old that my iphone

00:04:30.840 doesn't recognize my face anymore it won't like unlock my screen i feel like i'm trending into

00:04:38.000 that territory that is my face is is very blocky it's like a minecraft face yes no one talks enough

00:04:45.540 about minecraft face but it is a real thing that happens to women as we age it definitely is but

00:04:52.080 you know also we're so wise but tell me about your time management because I have to say of

00:04:59.020 all the people I know I almost want to say you do more than anybody else because you've got three

00:05:03.980 kids and they're all small they're little and you run your own basically business right as a writer

00:05:11.120 of all different kinds and you make a podcast and I believe you've lived near your parents right who

00:05:16.860 are old. I do. Is that right? Well, yeah, we just moved my mom to Center City, Philadelphia. Oh,

00:05:22.400 my God. From the suburbs. So yeah, she is very, very much a part of our life now on a day to day

00:05:28.120 basis. Yeah, that's so fun when that starts happening, because you figure out, oh, I don't

00:05:34.920 actually have one more minute to spare, but I'm just gonna have to make a minute. I'm gonna have

00:05:39.280 to make the minute. But what I have been saying lately, though, and I've been saying this part

00:05:42.740 out loud, like I've been saying the quiet part out loud, is that I'm at maximum caregiving. I'm

00:05:48.960 actually fully there. There's nothing left to spare. And my best example of that is that my mom

00:05:56.600 stayed over at my house this weekend, and she is tremendously helpful with my kids. There's a lot

00:06:02.440 of things that I'm doing caregiving-wise for her, but she is helpful with my kids, and my husband

00:06:06.500 was out of town but she brought her a dog who is a badly trained dog and I do not enjoy this dog

00:06:14.180 and I just did not have that extra ounce of caregiving I was like this dog's driving me

00:06:21.060 crazy like I can't I don't have the compassion for it that I would normally have under other

00:06:26.780 circumstances but I'm like I'm maxed out I've got three kids eight five and two I've got my mom who

00:06:32.220 still requires for me to do a lot when she's in the house and then I'm dealing you know with with

00:06:38.180 a remote husband far away he's off on a trip but I still have to do man keeping things wait what

00:06:43.720 does he do he was actually on like a friend weekend he went to go visit his friends he and I

00:06:48.360 now run a business together so he helps me run this media company is he your producer he is my

00:06:55.240 producer. He's also essentially the COO. So he keeps it going. All the tasks that it takes to

00:07:02.920 get a media company running, he does all of those. I love that, though, because, I mean,

00:07:07.820 this is a secret of the modern media business that people have been talking about in our circles,

00:07:13.480 at least, that a lot of these independent journalists who you see who are gaining

00:07:17.700 followers and who are doing video and all the different things you need to do to run a business

00:07:22.840 like that if they're male it's usually the wife is is the producer is the person that becomes like

00:07:29.480 a family business because it's actually too much to do just one person i know i know about 10 men

00:07:35.400 whose wives are running the behind the scenes of their sub stacks actually yeah it's it is amazing

00:07:40.860 but you've got your husband but yes you're full up right there's a number of people you can really

00:07:45.280 be close to and you can really care about and be in like deep relationship with and it's like five

00:07:50.240 or six. Exactly. Exactly. And you've got them right there with three kids. Yeah. Yeah. And so

00:07:56.340 yeah, having the dog and like having to have compassion for the dog who's like barking all

00:08:01.100 the time. I'm like this, this, this is what's going to send me over the edge. It's not potty

00:08:04.340 training my baby. It's not like running out to get my mom 19 prescriptions. It's the dog.

00:08:08.380 Is the dog like 19? The dog is so old and like incontinent and also unpleasant.

00:08:12.980 so yes yes yeah yeah so yeah I mean and the third shift is real my mom was in the burbs for a long

00:08:22.040 time like an hour out of the city and so anytime she had like a medical problem or needed help

00:08:29.440 around the house that was like a two and a half hour commute for us just getting to the car getting 1.00

00:08:33.740 out there and we just couldn't do it anymore so for efficiency sake we had to move her into center

00:08:39.860 city but I will tell you she is living her best life because she's never lived in a city and she's

00:08:43.320 like this is amazing I can walk everywhere oh that's good and does she have friends she has so

00:08:48.140 many friends now because she moved into a building that has a lot of people her age but also a lot of

00:08:53.560 young people who seem to like older people and there's a pool and they all gather around the

00:08:59.320 pool and I think she just joined a mahjong group oh my god it's like a old person's home but also

00:09:04.600 has young people in a hip area exactly exactly yeah no like that is that is going great for her

00:09:10.980 but also we are now like fully fully because my dad passed eight years ago we are fully her main

00:09:18.460 people like we are her point of contact for absolutely everything that happens in her life

00:09:24.720 at this point yeah that's yeah very similar I mean my dad died about then as well I often describe it

00:09:31.300 like a toddler who like doesn't live with you. I mean, my mama sounds quite a bit more ill than

00:09:36.520 your mom, but it's just like, wow, okay, that's another person that I'm definitely responsible

00:09:41.480 for. I'm not sure what's really going on. And in my case, yeah, they're like an hour away.

00:09:46.620 And so I'm constantly like driving this very traffic-y freeway to get up there.

00:09:53.040 Exactly. And that's what it was. I mean, it's not even that far distance wise, but it was like,

00:09:57.480 there's always traffic on 95, right? Getting out of this city. And it got to the point where I could

00:10:03.140 not handle it anymore. And so what was the move like? Oh, the move was so much. I mean, because

00:10:08.920 this, it was essentially, you know how terrible moving is. Moving is awful, right? And so moving

00:10:13.440 was essentially as if we were moving. And the breaking point was one, we were going there for

00:10:19.900 health stuff a lot. Like my mom is not particularly mobile, although her being here, she's like

00:10:26.220 thriving getting a lot better but not that mobile she had a hip replacement that like didn't heal

00:10:31.780 that well because she wasn't that mobile so it was hard for it to like heal well and also lived in

00:10:38.580 the same house that she's been in for 30 years and she has no financial security so the financial

00:10:46.480 aspect of it is a whole other thing when my dad passed away he had taken a second mortgage out

00:10:51.660 on the house without telling her. So there's like no equity in that freaking house, which she 0.87

00:10:56.360 thought assumed was paid off. Right. He hadn't paid taxes in like 15 years. Another thing she 0.96

00:11:02.400 didn't know. And I say this all the time when I talk about like the fantasy of trad wives and

00:11:07.420 financial dependence on men. My mom had a job and yet let my dad run all the finances and he 0.71

00:11:12.980 screwed her so hard like that. And she just didn't know about it. What saves her is she has a 0.95

00:11:18.980 teacher's pension okay that's good amazing like i'm just like oh my like it saves us it saves our

00:11:24.400 lives to be honest and then teachers union health insurance too yeah so she had that on her own so

00:11:30.140 it's not like she lost it she didn't lose that but she has no buffer like she had no savings

00:11:35.320 nothing what was your dad like was this like a secretive thing and the rest was normal no no he

00:11:42.220 was a terrible husband i mean he was just like a constant philanderer kind of a narcissist a guy

00:11:48.560 that you would probably love being friends with like I think he was a lot of fun right and I liked

00:11:52.540 him but like a really bad husband and a really bad caregiver and support system and then he was

00:12:00.700 very sick he had muscular dystrophy and was bedridden for the last eight years of his life

00:12:04.680 but we have no idea what he was blowing cash on we saw I'm like was it secret secret family

00:12:08.580 we've gone through all his emails we can't figure it out but the money's just gone and this house

00:12:15.980 was falling apart like the roof was about to give way and that would have been a $30,000 expense

00:12:20.800 that would have fallen on us right because she didn't have the buffer and I was like okay I'm

00:12:25.560 like it's time I don't have 30 grand to shell out to fix this house we have to sell it and so it was

00:12:33.480 a good two months of cleaning it out of like getting dumpsters and just getting rid of so

00:12:40.660 much stuff. And then we did get really lucky because we found a realtor who wanted to buy it

00:12:48.420 and use it as a rental property. So we were able to sell as is, but then also coordinating the move

00:12:55.220 with the remaining stuff that we kept. And my mom was also a smoker for a long time. She does not 0.98

00:12:59.460 smoke, but everything that house smelled like smoke. So I was just like, I would like you to

00:13:02.680 burn all of this. I'd like you to get rid of- Oh my God. It's like moldy and smells like smoke. 0.96

00:13:07.360 And it's moldy and smoky.

00:13:09.280 And I'm like, I want you to have a fresh start in this new apartment.

00:13:12.540 So we got rid of almost everything.

00:13:14.840 Everything.

00:13:15.280 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:13:15.400 It really does make you feel like you just want to have some sort of like Native American

00:13:19.740 ceremony outside.

00:13:20.660 Oh, my God.

00:13:21.220 Right?

00:13:21.780 Yes.

00:13:22.560 Where I just cleanse it.

00:13:23.780 Burn and do like a sweat lodge and just be like, this is my new life and I've left this

00:13:27.980 all behind.

00:13:28.640 Yeah.

00:13:29.000 It's crazy.

00:13:31.240 Crazy.

00:13:32.040 How was she emotionally through all this?

00:13:34.220 Was she freaking out or was she like, I'm good.

00:13:36.720 I'm ready to move on.

00:13:37.740 You know, she did freak out in the beginning.

00:13:39.100 And, like, even the convincing her that it was time.

00:13:41.680 Because we've been saying for a while, we're like, you will eventually move to Center City to be closer to us.

00:13:48.520 She wants to be close to my kids.

00:13:50.820 I mean, being a grandma is, like, her whole personality at this point.

00:13:54.900 But at the same time, she was like, not yet.

00:13:57.320 Maybe in a year.

00:13:57.960 Maybe in two years.

00:13:58.800 Like, I'm not there yet.

00:14:00.360 But this thing with the roof and the house falling apart, we were just like, yeah.

00:14:04.860 It has to.

00:14:05.340 It has to happen now before the house is unsellable, right?

00:14:09.960 Well, yeah.

00:14:10.520 And then it's also like people don't talk about how much they have to help their parents, right?

00:14:16.900 Who is going to step in with the bank account when your parent doesn't have enough?

00:14:22.760 And it's like, okay, you know, there's only two ways it can go.

00:14:26.300 Either you're going to help out or it's a Medicaid home.

00:14:30.460 Right. 0.90

00:14:30.700 That's it.

00:14:31.220 There's no other option.

00:14:32.580 You know, I guess you could get like a low income housing or this or that and applying for all that.

00:14:37.260 But that, I mean, that seems so, the bureaucracy of that seems so daunting.

00:14:44.920 And so, yeah, it was like, all right, we're going to head off this financial disaster at the pass.

00:14:49.540 And she finally, she did come around to it. 0.64

00:14:51.400 Well, it's like a rabbit out of the hat also that now she's in a city that she likes to be in and she's a pool.

00:14:56.820 And I'm sure your kids are like excited about that.

00:14:59.040 And there's people who talk to her in the lobby and like, wow, I mean, could not have ended up.

00:15:04.240 Could not have been better. 0.97

00:15:06.440 It was a crazy ass six months. 0.98

00:15:08.980 It was a crazy ass six months of us moving her, dealing with three kids. 0.97

00:15:14.160 Also, my book was coming out around the same time.

00:15:17.680 So I was on book tour as she was about to move.

00:15:21.320 And so my husband was handling it.

00:15:22.940 And they don't get along that well, which both of them will tell you.

00:15:25.960 Like, none of this is a secret.

00:15:26.980 I can publicly say it on a podcast.

00:15:28.420 I don't think they like each other very much okay why not they're just very different people

00:15:33.640 she's not practical and he is the most practical human on the planet but and I've had to be like

00:15:39.600 recently I'm like guys I'm like my biggest source of tension right now is having to like

00:15:43.040 deal with the two of you could you just like both adult up and figure this out but he had to manage

00:15:48.660 a lot of her move and I had to be hands off because I wasn't here and that I think that's

00:15:53.360 really interesting too when your spouse is dealing with your parent and it's not their parent 0.98

00:15:58.140 but it is kind of their parent now because they've married into this shit so they're also taking on 0.93

00:16:04.280 the third shift with someone that they are they they don't i mean i can find my mom super annoying 0.98

00:16:08.600 but she's still my mom i know well when i'm complaining about oh my god i have so many

00:16:13.100 things i have to do people will be like well where's your husband and all this and i'm like

00:16:16.380 well he'll do the handyman stuff like she needs a grab bar she needs her lights changed or she

00:16:21.800 is an artist he built all of this storage for her like he's done a bunch of stuff like that

00:16:26.680 but he's not going to go like sit with her when she's lonely and sad you know he's doing the

00:16:31.660 things that he is good at and that he's like equipped to do and i'm excited that he's doing

00:16:37.280 those because lord knows there's a million of those little things that have to be done as well

00:16:42.440 that i'm not going to do yeah exactly exactly it's a little bit of a dicey situation of course

00:16:47.600 i look at his parents and i'm like oh my god i will soon be also trying to figure out what i can

00:16:53.240 do with you guys? Because like, I'm very good at reading contracts and things like that.

00:16:57.500 Am I going to be the one in charge of selling your apartment and reading all the contracts?

00:17:01.600 And the answer is probably yes.

00:17:04.840 And the answer is probably yes, because my husband isn't going to want to deal with it. He doesn't

00:17:08.940 have that super attention to detail for legal docs and stuff like that. And yeah, like even if

00:17:14.160 it's three parents and not four, it's still a lot. Each one, as they go into the great beyond,

00:17:19.700 brings their own little packet of things that need to be unraveled, like a ball of wax that

00:17:27.700 needs to be unstuck. You've got to just elbow grease it over and over and over. And it's,

00:17:33.560 yeah, it's painful.

00:17:35.040 what I'm so fascinated by is first of all you're the kind of writer I can tell who just sits down

00:17:50.760 and you just write you have this idea in your head I do you sit down and you're not doing like

00:17:56.480 a hell of a lot of revision because it's kind of coming you know it's straight from your brain to

00:18:01.560 God's lips or whatever they say like you can write these things and people really respond to them and

00:18:08.840 you don't have to do a ton of worrying and tweaking and revision and the next day like what did I say

00:18:16.220 and I could just tell that's you but even with all that I am stunned that you have three kids

00:18:23.840 under 10 years old and you are writing and making a podcast and writing a you know your sub stack

00:18:29.760 and your novel and then dealing with your mom like how do you schedule this all yeah no it's

00:18:35.460 a great question I mean I'm hyper efficient in everything I truly believe having worked in

00:18:41.440 newspapers in like the late 90s early 2000s working in a daily newsroom you're like you 0.86

00:18:47.400 get shit done you just kind of figured it out you don't get to sit around in a writer's block

00:18:51.740 really because they're like it's due at four o'clock yeah exactly I mean I worked at a magazine 0.99

00:18:57.400 back then, I have to say, it gave me recall for phone numbers where I can just look at the seven

00:19:02.940 numbers and just be like, that's the phone number and plug it in. Because we were calling so many

00:19:07.960 people all day long, like asking them, you know, whatever nonsensical questions we asked back then

00:19:12.760 to put in the newspaper. But are you the kind of person where like you open when you read the email,

00:19:17.620 you respond? I do. I do. I am a to do lister. I physically write out a to do list. I've tried

00:19:23.160 all of the apps out there and I'm still like I really I love the dopamine hit of crossing a thing

00:19:28.380 off too so I physically write a list the night before I do my novel writing first thing I need

00:19:36.040 pure morning brain like while I'm having coffee to sit down and I typically do about between a

00:19:42.860 thousand and fifteen hundred words a day of whatever novel I'm working on unless I'm into

00:19:48.420 hardcore edits that I'm really not doing that. I literally just started writing a new novel

00:19:53.580 four days ago, and I'm on ramping myself with 500 words a day.

00:19:58.760 But wait, and where are your kids? Not like with your coffee and your kids and your novel

00:20:02.720 you're writing.

00:20:03.320 No, but I have full-time child care. I mean, that's the...

00:20:06.460 What time do they show up?

00:20:07.960 Well, nine o'clock.

00:20:09.080 Okay. So before nine, but like from six to nine, what happens?

00:20:12.480 Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not. Oh, God. I'm not one of those people that's like,

00:20:15.260 I rise before my children I get up okay when the kids get up and actually this morning because I

00:20:21.040 had a nighttime book event last night so my husband did all three this morning because I was

00:20:26.880 like I need an extra hour I'm also perimenopausal right so I wake up in the middle of the night and

00:20:31.480 I lose two hours of sleep so I was like I really need extra yeah just sweating just laying there

00:20:36.540 sweating um and so he did all the kids they are all now in some form of school even the baby who's

00:20:46.460 almost three is in preschool now and she's in preschool until three o'clock but we're also

00:20:52.340 kind of pushing to extend it to five o'clock on most days and the other two are now in public

00:20:57.660 school which oh my god is so nice and they're there until three o'clock so from 8 30 till three

00:21:05.220 I'm just pretty much free and I think it's really important to talk about child care and how we're

00:21:10.380 using it until last week we had an au pair for five years who lived in our house that is okay

00:21:17.600 now things are clicking together a little bit more and this was like somebody from Ireland or

00:21:22.860 like how did that work our most recent au pair Donna was from Colombia and our first au pair

00:21:29.420 our Tia, who was able to be with us longer than most au pairs are, because it's a legally

00:21:34.280 mandated visa, but they extended it because of COVID, was from South Africa. And she actually

00:21:39.000 babysat for us last night. I mean, she is a part of our family. We helped her get into nursing

00:21:42.520 school. And now she's training to be a nurse here in Philly. Well, what happens if the au pair shows

00:21:47.640 up and you don't like the au pair? And then you were like, oh, no, you have to go back to another

00:21:51.100 country. Oh, that happened. That happened to us. Funny, you should ask, because our first au pair

00:21:55.760 was a very spirited young woman and had a fake ID within the first four hours. She was underage. 0.62

00:22:04.600 She was not old enough to drink. Had a fake ID within the first four hours of being here

00:22:08.900 and just wanted to party very hard. Talk about a third shift. It was like having another child

00:22:13.920 in the house in addition to like really wanting me to solve all of her emotional trauma. And so

00:22:19.200 within a month, and I had a newborn. Bea was a newborn at that point. Within like a month,

00:22:24.660 we were like well this isn't working out for us but you want you work you work it's so regimented

00:22:30.180 like you're working with an agency who places them and like there's a whole process for like

00:22:35.540 this isn't working out for me is it really working out for you it is because you're having a really

00:22:39.740 good time but uh yeah that can that can happen we got very lucky that we in five years ended up

00:22:45.760 with two au pairs who were truly excellent and that was really helpful because I travel a lot

00:22:52.400 for work right so it's mostly that we need help outside of what our normal daycare hours or we

00:22:59.200 did for a long time and so what's the swap it's like room and board and she helps like 25 hours

00:23:06.540 of your choosing a week or like how do you it's like 40 hours of your choosing a week and that

00:23:12.040 can be at night obviously but it can also be at night that's the thing and like we've actually

00:23:16.760 never had help with drop off unless one of us is traveling like we kind of like drop off it's like

00:23:22.040 a nice thing. So our au pairs usually start later in the day. And the baby was at home until pretty

00:23:27.160 recently. She's not a baby. I can't stop calling her a baby. But that allowed for night events

00:23:32.140 because I do book events at night a lot. And, you know, when I was traveling on book tours so that

00:23:37.060 Nick had some help because three kids is no freaking joke. And so that was really great.

00:23:41.720 The flexibility was awesome for us. We don't really need it anymore because there's not a

00:23:45.580 kid at home all day. There's not a baby at home anymore. So we are au pair free for the first

00:23:51.920 time. Okay. So you have your 830 to three, but then what about your mom and the things and the

00:23:56.540 medications and like- Yeah. I mean, that's just kind of happening all day long. She's like,

00:24:00.580 can you run a CVS for me and get me this thing? Or can you call up this handyman, which half the

00:24:07.580 time is my husband, to come like install this in my apartment or fix this air conditioner or do

00:24:12.120 this. That is happening all day long. But I do, again, like back to the writing, I block off that

00:24:18.120 first two hours as best I can. I don't answer emails. I don't do any podcast work. I don't

00:24:26.620 schedule interviews unless it's something that I have to do because someone else's schedule

00:24:29.980 mandates it. And I don't answer texts. And my mom knows that too. So barring an emergency,

00:24:35.380 like she can break through and call on an emergency. I'm not doing anything for those

00:24:39.260 two hours. And so that lets me really get these books out. Because if you do a thousand words a

00:24:45.520 day for three months, you've got a book. I mean, how do you turn your brain off? Because if I did

00:24:51.340 that, then I'd still be walking around the rest of the day being like, well, the thing is, I'm

00:24:56.580 thinking that the plot really has to change. And in the top of the third act, this thing is going

00:25:00.800 to have to happen. And then your kid is like, mommy, help me with my math homework. And you're

00:25:05.660 just like I'm working out this logic problem in my head yes you know yeah it's living in my head

00:25:10.600 all day long it is it's living in my head all day long but that's also the benefit of it too right

00:25:15.620 because as long as you're hanging out with these characters and the reason I don't outline like

00:25:20.360 you said I do just sit down and kind of put it on the page but I don't outline because I don't

00:25:25.660 think you know these people until you've spent time with them it's like going on a first date

00:25:29.620 and then trying to write your life story with this person you don't know what they're gonna

00:25:33.340 to do until you've been with them for some time. That's how my brain works. But then it is working

00:25:38.540 all day. I send myself email messages with ideas and like working it out of my brain all day.

00:25:43.160 But then I do kind of I turn it off as much as possible to then do all of the other life stuff

00:25:48.440 that I have to do for the rest of the day. And mostly I am usually done by about 3.30.

00:25:55.580 But again, it's like it's efficiency. I don't scroll social media during the day. I'm just

00:26:00.180 like banging through stuff with a force. Yeah. And then does your mom come over at night and

00:26:06.380 hang with your kids? She does. She does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the big kids also have like

00:26:11.640 some days where they have more activities than others. But I will tell you, I'm also

00:26:15.560 kind of a selfish parent. And I don't feel bad saying that. So far, they have not been that

00:26:21.500 interested in like the kinds of sports that can sometimes ruin a parent's life. And so we haven't

00:26:27.920 been pushing them that hard when they want really really want to do it and push for it okay but we're

00:26:33.780 not doing like travel baseball and travel soccer on weekends because i still like having our

00:26:38.440 weekends free right well they're also young enough though because they are but but other the other

00:26:43.480 eight-year-old boys are already doing it they're starting to do it i know the thing is is that

00:26:47.360 because i have a nine and a 13 year old and there is a time i don't know maybe like 11 where i feel

00:26:53.120 like they're like eight or nine and you're like we're going away for the weekend i don't really

00:26:57.120 need to tell you that there's this party going on you know the kids in your class oh yeah no i

00:27:01.340 keep that from them i hide that information yes i do not need to even inform you but then it becomes

00:27:06.680 mom like i need to go to this thing and yeah now we have this little flag football has to be done

00:27:13.300 saturday morning and the things creep in but i agree like the club sports parents that's like a

00:27:18.520 lifestyle it's a lifestyle it's a lifestyle and i'm just i'm avoiding it as long as i can i know

00:27:22.920 that it's gonna I know the creep is coming but it's not here yet and I'm not not doing anything

00:27:27.980 to speed up that creep so right yeah so mom comes over usually in the afternoons the thing is you

00:27:33.140 know she's not far she's probably I guess it's like 10 blocks but in the beginning she couldn't

00:27:39.440 walk it she was taking ubers because she's not not not in great physical shape but we got her

00:27:44.120 one of those rolly walker pushers the kind that you can like sit down on and store things in

00:27:48.760 yeah and now she can make the walk on her own so yeah and it's great it's great exercise for

00:27:54.100 and so yeah she'll come over and hang out for a couple hours have dinner and then like take an 1.00

00:27:59.140 uber home so let me ask you a question so in all the trad wives because you are the expert of trad

00:28:04.560 wives like this is your somehow somehow somehow i did not think i did not think that i was going

00:28:09.700 to become america's leading expert on trad wives but i am fascinating because you have three kids

00:28:14.340 So it's like you know whereof you speak somewhat, but you are also so incredibly different.

00:28:19.540 I mean, I actually think a lot of these women are living exactly like you.

00:28:23.880 They are. 1.00

00:28:24.420 But they are.

00:28:25.040 That's the thing.

00:28:25.420 They're running a media company from their homes.

00:28:28.560 Yes.

00:28:29.500 And, you know, the husband's helping out and the sister's helping out and everybody's

00:28:33.080 getting this thing done, which is promoting, you know, them baking bread. 0.96

00:28:36.660 But I don't see, I have to say, I don't see a lot of taking care of your elders on the

00:28:41.960 Trad Wife social media. 0.97

00:28:43.820 No.

00:28:44.000 What's up with that?

00:28:44.640 You never see that on TradWife social media, which is fascinating because if we were talking

00:28:49.600 about actual traditional lifestyles, it would be multi-generational living.

00:28:54.580 For sure.

00:28:55.620 For sure.

00:28:56.400 Yes, exactly.

00:28:57.580 So why is that?

00:28:59.000 Well, because it's just not sellable.

00:29:00.700 I mean, they're selling a fantasy and the fantasy that you want to see is that life

00:29:04.620 is easy.

00:29:05.460 So they strip all of the labor out of caregiving, out of being a mom, out of gardening, out

00:29:11.720 of homesteading, out of homeschooling.

00:29:13.600 and only show the beautiful, glossy, not even accurate or realistic parts of it

00:29:20.920 in order to sell a fantasy, to sell you, to essentially capture your attention

00:29:25.420 and also sell you their courses on all of these things and their aprons and their sourdough starters.

00:29:31.580 Oh, they all have courses.

00:29:33.840 Oh, they all have courses.

00:29:35.020 They all have courses.

00:29:35.660 Like how to clean?

00:29:37.160 Mostly homesteading, homeschooling.

00:29:39.860 how to make how to make passive income on social media is a big one like they're selling how to be

00:29:46.420 a trad wife influencer and so anything that involves actual labor which is caring for your

00:29:51.940 elders is not going to show up on those screens but you're right they are running media companies

00:29:58.540 just like i am they all have caregivers that we never see they're all probably also doing

00:30:03.520 caregiving for elderly parents which we never see because it doesn't look beautiful on social media

00:30:08.100 yeah it's not cute nothing cute about nothing cute about it and also their husbands are usually 0.72

00:30:13.520 working for them they are typically if they are successful at being an influencer they are the

00:30:18.120 breadwinners in their families like so many of us are these days and I wrote this in the book and a

00:30:23.760 lot of readers are like oh my gosh it's such a funny satire and I'm like none of this is satire

00:30:28.560 sadly and they do shoot all of their content on a single day with a photographer with a videographer

00:30:33.860 with an entire staff. They change outfits 11 times. So you think that everything is a different

00:30:38.260 day. I mean, they're just essentially creating magazines and video streaming channels for you

00:30:45.120 at this point. But it is interesting, as I've been thinking about this third shift idea,

00:30:50.240 the idea that, you know, you have your job that you go to, and then you have your care

00:30:54.280 taking of your children, which already felt unmanageable, right? Like felt like, how can

00:31:00.940 I possibly do both of these at once? And then you filter in caring for your elders. It's so

00:31:08.520 incredible to me that I have never, you know, my mom was very much a lady. She was very bohemian

00:31:15.120 in some ways, but she was proper in other ways and had the china and the silver and no,

00:31:25.260 she didn't use them every day, but for Thanksgiving or something, the stuff came out and the table

00:31:30.980 cloths and blah, blah, blah. And I do none of that, right? I don't even know where these things

00:31:36.040 are that were gotten for my wedding like 19 years ago, a couple of pieces of crystal and things like

00:31:42.280 that. But I have this like recurring daydream of I just want to sit down and I want to polish some

00:31:50.800 silver. I just want to sit down and like, you know, hem a skirt. It's really interesting. And

00:31:57.120 I think it comes back to, I just feel really overwhelmed because I've been such a professional

00:32:02.940 lady. And for one of the first times in my life, I'm like, if I'm going to be domestically chained

00:32:09.980 to this home or my mom's home, or just this phase of life, I'm in it. You know, I can't get out of

00:32:16.300 it there's nobody but me to do these things then maybe I just should do these things you know I

00:32:25.100 gotta just like do the things then like maybe it's just you know there's something as a fantasy

00:32:31.660 it feels like oh that would be really nice and meditative to just sit there and polish the silver

00:32:37.000 and it might it might or it might burn the inside of your nose with fumes to be fair it might be so

00:32:44.440 dull so dull so exhausting so dull but I don't know because I've never polished silver so right

00:32:51.440 I don't know but you're getting at something because the trad wife fantasy works for a reason

00:32:58.440 millions of people watch these things because I do think that a lot of us who have lived very

00:33:04.280 professional lady lives for the past like 25 years are burnt out because the world is not

00:33:11.400 accommodating to the second shift or the third shift. And so we're looking for things that look

00:33:17.220 meditative and they make these things look meditative online. They're like, doesn't gardening

00:33:22.240 look so lovely? Meanwhile, I'm looking out my window. I tried to make a tomato garden

00:33:27.080 on the roof and they're just like, they're constantly dying. I'm constantly attacking

00:33:31.440 like caterpillars and those pill bugs that eat everything. Like gardening is actually not

00:33:37.040 meditative for me I think it is for some people or if you only like do something easy yeah or

00:33:43.320 hemming a skirt like my son's favorite pillow got ripped the other day because our two and a half

00:33:50.380 year old put a stuffed owl in it and he got really upset so now I'm trying to sew it back together

00:33:55.580 and I'm not good at sewing and so like that was actually the most stressful part of my day

00:33:59.380 I could write so many pages of a book or make a podcast or do an interview with the New York Times

00:34:05.920 but like sewing this pillow is ruining me right now. It's just not my forte. But I think it seems

00:34:11.900 like it could be any of our fortes, right? It seems like it could be lovely because it's also

00:34:16.300 so kind of foreign to us. Right. I think the idea is that not only would your house be clean and

00:34:22.720 you'd have delicious meals and you would be in control of it all, but also it would be a lovely

00:34:28.400 way to spend your day, which we all know is kind of not true. But what if it was true?

00:34:35.780 But what if it was true?

00:34:36.660 What if you could escape all these annoying to-do lists and like, wait, no, CVS doesn't

00:34:42.800 have the medication ready. I've got to come back here later. You know, like if you could just

00:34:46.920 escape all of that and just be with your hand, you know, a little kerchief on your head and 0.99

00:34:54.620 looking beautiful while you're doing it i mean i do have to say then the also the the rich lady

00:35:00.700 fantasy is really fascinating to me these days too richly rich lady fantasy seems great to me

00:35:06.100 you wear your crazy like pilates s&m clothes and you have some crazy enormous handbag and

00:35:13.600 you sort of just yell at people on the phone about your investments i don't know done that's what you

00:35:19.740 do i think i'd be such a good rich lady that's really interesting though the way that they're

00:35:24.480 all in these ads like these aloe ads like really glistening oh yeah and like all these just worked

00:35:30.580 out exercise always just worked out yeah botox and like you know i don't know i got botox twice

00:35:36.880 and both times i looked really weird and then i was like oh my god i didn't realize that part of

00:35:43.220 this is trial and error and maybe i didn't go to the right place but i think it was kind of the

00:35:47.420 right place. But I thought you just give them the money and you look beautiful. And it's actually

00:35:51.520 not that. It's like you give them the money and then you try a bunch of different things and you

00:35:56.840 commit to it as a lifestyle of things you're doing. And you have like a mirror that shows

00:36:01.760 you really up close. And then things on your face change that only you can see have changed,

00:36:06.680 but you feel really gratified. Yeah. No one thinks I look at all different. I thought that

00:36:12.320 about micro needling so like I won a micro needling at the school auction because I love

00:36:18.220 drinking some wine and bidding on things at a school auction I don't even know what that is

00:36:22.260 though micro needling like they sick a needle in your face all over kind of sort of first they draw 0.96

00:36:27.480 your own blood and then what yes they draw your own blood and then they separate the plasmas and

00:36:33.240 then they put the plasmas in like some kind of machine but like a bunch of little needles go all

00:36:37.540 over your face and then the blood gets smeared into your pores to support regrowth whatever i

00:36:43.740 think i saw it on tiktok and i was like i want to try that and then after two glasses of wine i'm

00:36:47.800 like i'm gonna bid on this at the auction and i did and i was like i thought it was like a one

00:36:53.720 and done and i'd seen people before no one in real life but people on social media um like showing

00:37:00.120 the after effects and the dermatologist was like you have to do this like 19 times and pay like

00:37:05.120 twelve thousand dollars that's the thing is they're like and then you need to come back and

00:37:11.980 I'm like come back I'm like I don't want to come back I have exactly 30 minutes take my blood and

00:37:17.060 spread it on my face right now and yeah so like that is such an like all of that just seems like 1.00

00:37:23.760 such an investment of time that I'm not going to spend I mean much like the trad wives with the

00:37:28.520 baking you're only seeing them bake for 15 seconds and everything looks perfect I tried to bake

00:37:35.240 cinnamon toast crunch from scratch for a live segment promoting my book and I used the recipe

00:37:41.520 that Nara Smith used on her on her Instagram or TikTok or whatever and all of the preparation

00:37:48.320 like getting all of these things ready was like four hours of work and then I gave it to my kid

00:37:52.220 and he spit it on the floor and he's like this is disgusting and then went and got like his own box

00:37:56.280 of cereal so like none of that like they're just again by stripping the labor of it it looks easy

00:38:02.760 and lovely and not showing any of the actual work that goes into these things which makes them

00:38:07.060 unpleasant right exactly

00:38:09.080 it's such an odd time for women like i really think that from at least let's just talk about 1.00

00:38:24.580 middle-aged women who are in the soup of everything. Because if it wasn't for COVID and remote work, 1.00

00:38:31.980 there's no way I would be working right now. That's the truth. I couldn't. I couldn't. I

00:38:36.720 could not possibly be running back and forth in my car to my mom and dealing with my kids and

00:38:43.920 the paperwork and the administration. And also being in an office. And be in the office because

00:38:49.320 people would be like where are you going you know I would just be like not there all the time but

00:38:55.460 because of COVID we all got used to this idea like oh we can balance both the kids and the work even

00:39:02.880 though none of us really could nobody's been really happy no no one's thriving it's not like

00:39:08.340 we're thriving in this and yet we can do it and I remember being in the office of the magazines

00:39:15.340 and the tech companies back in my 20s and 30s and watching parents and like people who had kids

00:39:22.020 trying to leave early to go do pickup right and like early meant six o'clock or god forbid 5 30

00:39:29.120 and they were then they were treated like shit for leaving right or if they had a doctor's 0.86

00:39:33.860 appointment or a sick kid home it was always such a struggle and I since having kids have not been 0.98

00:39:40.080 in an office. I don't know how I would do it. I don't think I could thrive. I mean, not even

00:39:46.000 thrive. I don't think I could survive like that. No, I mean, I think when I worked at magazines,

00:39:52.260 and I think there are still places that are like this. It's like you roll in at like 10.30 or 11

00:39:56.720 in the morning. You stay till like 6.30 or 7 at night. Maybe even you stay till 9.30 if you've

00:40:03.340 got a big story that's printing. On closing days, if you're a weekly, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

00:40:08.540 that's just the way it is and maybe you go straight to dinner with somebody etc but i mean

00:40:13.500 i do remember somebody saying to me that's a lot of single women and gay guys in that office and i

00:40:19.480 can't hang with that because i've got kids i've got to get home like 5 30 6 o'clock i can't be

00:40:25.180 like i show up at nine and everybody else rolls in at like 11 and then looks at me strangely when

00:40:31.040 i walk out the door but like even that i just couldn't do that like i know i couldn't because

00:40:36.060 i just find weird pockets to do things i mean that's like that's a great other name for this

00:40:42.120 podcast weird pockets of time weird pockets of time like i get it i get a text in and i'm like

00:40:47.360 okay i need to go pick up these prescriptions for my mom i also need to work out so i'm gonna go

00:40:53.960 for like a quickie 20 minute run and then loop by the pharmacy on my way back from the run because

00:41:01.440 i've got this kind of weird pocket of time but i've also got my airpods in so i can get that

00:41:05.340 call out of the way that I have to do. It's like multitasking on steroids is what it is.

00:41:11.800 I wish I ran because I think that people who run can keep really fit in these times when you've

00:41:19.200 got so many different obligations. Personally, I haven't run since I was 11. So I'm definitely

00:41:24.720 not doing that. But yeah, there's no way that I'm going to like an exercise class that's like an

00:41:29.660 hour and it takes like half an hour to get there, half an hour to get back. Then I have to take a

00:41:33.200 hour like that's never happening but yeah I mean I think that the hard thing for me is like when

00:41:38.140 things don't go off I actually did go to CVS before you and I got on the phone and now they

00:41:43.300 have like a computer put in your name and your birth date and where you think your prescription

00:41:47.300 is coming from and like a million questions and it was like no we can't actually tell you if your

00:41:51.840 prescription is ready so then it's like go to another window and there's like six people standing

00:41:56.500 there and I was like can you guys just tell me if you have my prescription ready like it's not I'm

00:42:01.880 not actually like thinking I'm gonna even get to pick it up now because this is so gonna take so

00:42:07.080 long but I just want to know if you have it you know and they're like well you have to call and

00:42:11.260 leave a message and I'm like do you really think that I haven't called and left a message and I

00:42:15.300 showed up here like I just know that I've called twice and you guys haven't called me back so

00:42:19.780 like there's things like that where the only reason I went to that place is because the place

00:42:25.100 that's right around the corner for me where it's like mom and pop and they're really nice and

00:42:28.520 they're always helpful, doesn't have this particular compounding medication. And there

00:42:34.720 are days where you're like, I'm stuck in some sort of commerce machine of hell. And it's usually when

00:42:42.500 you're dealing with big box kind of places like, oh, Best Buy, we're trying to set up the PS5 and

00:42:50.060 it's not working. Things like that. Whenever a new piece of technology comes into this house,

00:42:54.160 I get a little frantic because I know it's something's something's going wrong something's

00:42:59.720 going wrong it's like something terrible is going to happen and sap the last remaining energy that I

00:43:07.900 have well I actually I have a really good follow-up to that so one of the things we're also

00:43:12.180 doing as I kind of mentioned before my mom has never dealt with her money or with a budget and

00:43:17.340 now we're in complete control of that so one of the things we're doing because also oh it wasn't

00:43:21.820 just the roof caving and it was also that she had managed to max out her two credit cards too

00:43:25.480 just because she wasn't paying attention to it and i'm like we aren't at the place where we can

00:43:30.580 bail you out like this so we set up this budget we're kind of monitoring her budget and we

00:43:36.000 realized in the first month she had spent nine hundred dollars on like one-offs on amazon what

00:43:41.440 of what movies tv shows tv shows like series that she wanted to watch and movies all and the ones

00:43:48.080 that she wanted to watch, most of them were available if we just bought the $19 HBO subscription.

00:43:52.900 Oh no.

00:43:53.920 But like, just like figuring that out, like we didn't know that until all of a sudden we look

00:43:58.880 at this credit card bill, right? And then getting all of the subscriptions set up on her TV was like

00:44:03.180 a day long odyssey. Those are the kinds of things we talk about the third shift and we talk about

00:44:07.740 caregiving a lot, but it is more like little paper cuts of things than it is a gash most days. Like

00:44:15.540 it's mostly like little tiny things. My mom now likes swimming in the pool. She's exercising for

00:44:20.360 the first time. The pool is closing on October 12th. So she's like, well, what am I going to do

00:44:24.400 next? And like, you know, and, and that's, that's a job. That's a to do list thing for me to figure

00:44:30.000 out. Right. Sure. Yeah. Is there a, is it a physical therapist? Right. Exactly. Or is there

00:44:36.060 a pool somewhere where you can like go and then how will you get there? And like all of those

00:44:40.500 things. It is managing another child. Right. It's managing another child and not all that joyful.

00:44:47.820 Well, what are the good feelings? I mean, for me, it's complicated because my mom is sick. So it's

00:44:53.220 like if I see her, I saw her yesterday and she was good. She was mentally really good and connecting

00:45:00.200 with me and answering questions. And there's nothing that makes me feel better. Like I was

00:45:04.460 walking on air all night last night. I was so happy. What makes you happy?

00:45:09.280 You know, seeing my mom with my kids makes me really happy because they love her.

00:45:13.480 Like, they love her a lot.

00:45:14.460 And she and I had a rough, rough childhood.

00:45:18.300 Like, both my parents were complicated people, but she's a great grandma.

00:45:23.320 And so seeing my kids with her and the joy that they bring her, but, like, also the joy that she brings them as being super engaged is just awesome.

00:45:33.480 You know, we were in New York and San Francisco, and then we made the decision to move back to Philly.

00:45:38.480 and the fact that they get to have her in their life is awesome and she does make our life a lot

00:45:44.360 easier in in so many ways by being here for them and now that she's in the city too my kids can

00:45:49.720 have one-on-ones so they can have like Charlie is just sleeping over one night or Bea is just

00:45:54.580 sleeping over one night and they get to do the different things with her one-on-one which is

00:45:58.720 just really cool and I never had that kind of relationship with any of my grandparents so I

00:46:03.760 think it's pretty pretty awesome what are your tips what are like a couple of tips that you have

00:46:09.160 for people listening like I said it's being relentlessly efficient I've cut social media

00:46:13.060 out of my life almost entirely which is funny because I have a whole podcast that deals with

00:46:17.280 social media and wrote a book about it that's what under the influence is it's under the influence

00:46:21.440 of social media but I don't use it as like for fun I don't scroll I have time limits like very

00:46:29.080 strict ones on it. And I just refuse to lose time to it. And when I realized how much time I was

00:46:35.520 losing to it, I was like, you're not going to do this anymore. And it's not bringing you joy

00:46:39.660 either. It's just making you feel shitty most of the time. So I fully cut that out. Adhering to the 0.68

00:46:45.200 to-do list is huge for me. But then also giving myself grace when it all goes to shit, because 0.99

00:46:50.400 it's all going to go to shit at least once a week. And also, honestly, and this is my best advice 0.99

00:46:57.260 for younger listeners and younger readers is they're like how can I how can I manage all this

00:47:02.520 and I'm like marry the right person your husband is going to be your glass ceiling your partner

00:47:06.140 is the person that I think often makes or breaks you like you're the limits of your ambition are

00:47:11.300 often really dependent on them and so and I'm married to a great guy it took a really long

00:47:16.720 time for us to get to this point where we could be working together and also helping each other

00:47:21.820 out. But I'm glad that we got to it. And then also, I sacrifice a lot of things that people

00:47:28.420 really like spending money on to spend money on childcare. Like we did for a long time,

00:47:33.080 we sacrificed having this room in our house, which is not big. We live in a Philadelphia

00:47:36.280 row house. And also I pay for all the childcare so that I can get my work done.

00:47:40.880 Yeah, it's true. You just have to decide what's what's important. So thank you so much,

00:47:45.840 joe for coming on so your parents are old and we are going to have a link to your podcast your

00:47:51.960 incredible book and your sub sack obviously and then we are all waiting for the next book

00:47:56.760 with bated breath so thank you for coming on thank you for having me so just a note before we go

00:48:04.760 things really clicked for me and maybe for you when joe said she had hired an au pair which is

00:48:10.640 like a magical thing that made her life so much easier. So I was researching au pairs. And then I

00:48:16.920 found out that one of the producers on this show, Lily Houston Smith, actually was an au pair. So

00:48:24.040 before we go this week, we're just going to talk to her about her experience and how it all works.

00:48:29.080 So welcome, Lily. Thanks for having me on here. I was I will say I was a really bad au pair. I was

00:48:34.920 like the worst au pair that oh, no, like when Joe was talking about the bad au pair that she had,

00:48:38.660 I was like one of those. So I don't know if I'm the best representative.

00:48:42.820 Meaning you partied all the time?

00:48:44.060 I did party a little.

00:48:45.000 Tell me, tell me, how old were you? What did you do?

00:48:47.360 It was immediately post-college. So I was 22 and I went to Germany, which has like a very

00:48:53.880 fun nightlife. I was very directionless is like one of the reasons I did it. It's

00:48:58.300 extremely popular for people to have au pairs in Germany. And it's like a really

00:49:01.460 fun, easy, cheap way for a young person to travel, especially because I didn't have any

00:49:05.560 other plans. So I thought I would just hang out there for a while.

00:49:07.980 And so what was the au pair part like? And how much did you get paid? And like, how did it all

00:49:12.140 work? It was extremely easy to find a family just because there's such a high demand. And people,

00:49:17.800 especially in Germany, want American au pairs because the idea is that their kids learn English.

00:49:23.820 And so there's no expectation that you speak German, although I did know some German at the

00:49:28.000 time. You do not get paid much. You get paid in room and board. And then you get a stipend. I can't

00:49:34.640 remember what it was, but it was like pitiful. It was like one or 200 euros a month or something

00:49:39.800 like that. But also American au pairs in Germany don't work as much as the au pairs that are coming

00:49:45.760 to the US is my understanding. So there was no expectation that I was working 40 hours a week.

00:49:50.400 It was more like 15 to 20. And also the kids I was watching were older. So I just kind of hang

00:49:55.060 out with like a seven and eight year old for a few hours every afternoon. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't

00:49:59.860 sound so bad. So how do you find an au pair if you want to look into this for yourself?

00:50:05.320 Like what's a legitimate website? So there are a ton of private agencies that basically help

00:50:10.380 match au pairs with families. And this is sort of what Joe is talking about. They'll sort of help,

00:50:14.640 like if an au pair doesn't fit, they'll help find you a new one. Those are companies like

00:50:18.080 Cultural Care, Au Pair Care. And usually you meet these potential au pairs. They're usually about

00:50:23.200 18 to 26 years old. And you can chat with them on WhatsApp, have a video call. And if you find

00:50:29.300 someone that you like, you basically just help them apply for a visa through the State Department

00:50:33.660 and then they can stay with you for about a year. Wow. I've never considered getting an au pair.

00:50:38.800 I don't know how I feel about somebody living in my house, but obviously that is a resource for

00:50:44.000 anybody out there with small kids trying to balance it all. So thank you everybody for

00:50:49.360 listening to So Your Parents Are Old this week, and we will be back with another episode next week.

00:50:59.960 Thanks, everybody, for listening to So Your Parents Are Old from Campside Media.

00:51:05.080 If you like the show, please tell your siblings and your friends who are going through this, too.

00:51:10.000 And please hit the subscribe or the follow button in your podcast app in Apple Podcasts.

00:51:16.820 That's up at the top right of the podcast player.

00:51:20.200 We will have an episode out every week.

00:51:23.580 And if you want even more from us, including behind the scenes access and episode updates,

00:51:28.760 head over to joinparents.com.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - October 21, 2025

So Your Parents Are Old

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