Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - October 17, 2024


Spicy Sex and Smart Ladies

The Cost of Scrolling—Free Yourself From Impulse Spending This Holiday Season Legislating Utah Mom Influencers, FINALLY!

Episode Stats


Length

38 minutes

Words per minute

186.78

Word count

7,103

Sentence count

252

Harmful content

Misogyny

13

sentences flagged

Toxicity

16

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey all, Jo here and you are listening to Under the Influence. I'm very excited about
00:00:13.260 today's episode because it just combines a lot of things that I really love. We've got
00:00:20.300 spicy sexy romance stories and ambitious women. Two of my favorite things. I mean, two of 1.00
00:00:27.940 my favorite things. And this episode is essentially the Venn intersection of those two things.
00:00:34.540 My friends Claire Mazur and Erica Cirillo have created a lot of cool stuff together
00:00:40.260 over the years. But their latest venture, their latest venture, is absolutely blowing me away.
00:00:48.340 They've created a modern romantic fiction publishing company called 831 Stories. And
00:00:54.520 their latest book, Big Fan, is taking the publishing world by storm. Now, I polished
00:01:00.780 this bad boy off in two nights. It's an itty-bitty, delicious, bite-sized novel, but it's also
00:01:09.180 so, so smart. I mean, I'm just, I'm going to give you one little spoiler here. This is a spicy
00:01:15.580 margarita of a romance novel that also includes an in-depth conversation of universal basic income.
00:01:24.520 I mean, I'm telling you, it is a romance that was tailor-made for me.
00:01:30.760 Claire and Erica have been friends since college, and I want to have them on for a lot of reasons.
00:01:35.560 But one, I want to talk about what it's like to create a business together as friends.
00:01:40.700 Because I get asked a lot since I co-write books, what is it like to create something with one of your friends?
00:01:46.340 And it is hard.
00:01:47.660 And it is also rewarding and wonderful.
00:01:49.760 but the challenges are definitely there, and I want to dig into all of those today.
00:01:55.640 I also want to talk about the romance genre and how it has been discounted and disparaged for
00:02:00.600 so long because it's a genre created by women for women. But no longer, no longer. The publishing
00:02:08.880 world cannot ignore this because there are more than 30 million romance readers in the United 1.00
00:02:13.680 States, and they are smart women, and they want great content. Here's Claire and Erica to dive 1.00
00:02:20.740 into all of it. Hello, ladies. Hi, Jo. Last time we saw you, we were talking about Sicilian 1.00
00:02:30.100 Inheritance. I know, I was just thinking about that. We've got so much due credit for its sex
00:02:35.240 writing, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. It really did. It really did. I feel good. I feel
00:02:40.220 good about writing sex scenes now like sicilian inheritance was my first spice really and and
00:02:47.060 i'm working on um a new one called the lost masterpiece which is set in paris uh and it's
00:02:54.140 a feminist art heist and i got a spice scene in the loob oh my god i love it right work yeah
00:03:03.100 so proud of myself so well the reason that we're opening the episode like this because we could
00:03:09.880 talk about a gazillion things because i've known you uh for so long is because you you have have
00:03:16.740 this new new adventure that you're doing um 831 stories guys i just finished big fan tell us what
00:03:24.500 you thought i loved it i loved i loved everything about it and what first off i love the cover i
00:03:32.460 love the cover thank you for people for people who haven't heard me rave about it yet um it is
00:03:37.700 a novel uh but it is it is the perfect size novel we wouldn't call this a novella would we is it a
00:03:43.260 novella we technically would we technically would um but the thing is like it's a book you know that
00:03:50.420 happens to be under 200 pages um it's a book that happens to be under 200 pages which if you have a
00:03:57.160 thursday night and just like a little time to yourself um it's the perfect thing to read start
00:04:02.460 to finish or a flight like a long flight a flight not even as long as a flight to be honest
00:04:08.160 not that long of a medium flight yeah yeah i did it in two nights i did it in two nights reading
00:04:14.160 before bed but also like didn't kill myself staying up too late right yeah and so totally
00:04:19.720 big fan is the first uh novel from from your new publishing imprint 831 stories yes where 0.99
00:04:28.420 you are creating romance novels for what i think are you know smart sassy adult women
00:04:35.840 oh that's really nice i mean the truth is yes i and men and men and men read it too
00:04:41.460 we sure hope so i mean truly 831 stories exists for the romance fans and the hope is that we can
00:04:48.680 make a lot more turn a lot more people into romance fans by publishing these stories um
00:04:53.880 we love romance we came to it kind of late in life and had that and i think coming to it late
00:04:59.960 in life was sort of part of our awakening and why it knocked us over so hard that we were like we've
00:05:05.240 got to start a business here because there was that moment of like wow have we been missing out
00:05:08.720 and like why have we been missing out and why weren't we reading these things before and it
00:05:14.180 just struck such a nerve with us that like these books that center female joy and pleasure and sex
00:05:20.440 and love are so important and exciting and fun and the more people that are reading them the 0.71
00:05:27.140 better it is for the world for the world for women the world yeah for women like just to be a little
00:05:33.760 bold about it the world yeah the world and like it sounds so crazy and like i we typically don't
00:05:40.120 like starting here because it sounds a little i don't know overblown overly no no no no no we we
00:05:45.820 This is under the influence.
00:05:47.140 We love Overblown and Over-Earnest.
00:05:49.720 Over-Earnest.
00:05:50.400 Okay.
00:05:50.620 We just really, really believe that these books are so progressive in their feminism
00:05:57.320 and that the simple idea of women's stories about love and sex that are told by and for
00:06:04.200 women are so important and they are so much less common than you would think.
00:06:08.880 And certainly when you hold them up next to stories of men's pleasure and sex, wives, 0.99
00:06:14.500 like that they're just dwarfed right like they're like men stories of men's pleasure and men's sex
00:06:20.000 are told so often that we barely even notice half the time that they're we don't notice they're just
00:06:23.860 stories they're just stories they're just yeah yeah yeah yeah i was saying that we came to these
00:06:30.800 stories late and in doing so we sort of realized the internalized misogyny that had kept us from
00:06:36.080 them for so long and that when we were growing up um romance novels were sold at the grocery store
00:06:41.520 and had Fabio on the cover and we were under the impression that that meant they weren't for us,
00:06:46.060 which was such a flawed point of view. And as we've been having conversations with friends,
00:06:52.480 authors, people who haven't read romance novels and are new to the genre, they're starting to
00:06:58.240 see that blind spot too. And realizing that like, oh, the fact that I think about these books the
00:07:04.020 way that I do, that's my problem, not the problem of the book. That is like a me issue.
00:07:08.640 a me issue well and you know not absolutely not the problem of the books but definitely a problem
00:07:14.100 of the culture surrounding oh for sure for sure for sure because well i am the same as you i'm
00:07:20.020 the same i came to romance very late i mean only really in the past couple of years yeah to be on
00:07:26.140 mid-30s for us yeah well mid-40s guys mid-40s oh such a good decade i look better than i ever
00:07:35.280 have before you do thank you thank you and you guys have known me since my my early 30s so you
00:07:41.480 know yeah yeah um but i came very i came very late and i do think that i always felt like they
00:07:48.520 weren't for me mostly because i'm like i wouldn't do fabio he's not my jam right he's not he's he's
00:07:53.960 not my my thing um and they were also they also like you were they were categorized as like smut
00:07:59.320 Right. And what's super interesting, especially when it comes to contemporary romance and a lot of contemporary romances that are being published right now, is that it's almost like that the authors of these books are using the very things that make people sort of ignore them to change like sometimes really progressive, really radical ideas through these stories that go down so easy.
00:08:22.260 and it's like that's such a beautiful and effective thing to be able to you know our
00:08:27.160 first book has a major theme of universal basic income yes it really does it really does yeah
00:08:32.280 one and that's really intentional to be like we're gonna give you this thing that goes down
00:08:36.220 like easier than a spicy margarita right and like and and yet you're gonna learn all about this
00:08:41.400 really sort of like considered by some radical economic idea um and and they're that we're not
00:08:49.140 like that we didn't come up with that idea you know that the women who have been writing these
00:08:53.660 stories for a long time are telling really similarly instructive exciting stories that
00:08:59.880 make you walk away like both turned on and delighted and um and and more educated and more
00:09:05.860 educated you feel smarter i have to tell you guys a quick sidebar about universal basic income please
00:09:10.640 I started reading Big Fan on my way to a wedding in San Francisco.
00:09:17.460 And after after a couple of drinks, you know, I started talking to one of the many tech bros at this wedding.
00:09:23.880 And he's talking about how AI is going to improve and change the world.
00:09:27.700 And, you know, I'm immediately like, oh, no, it's it's going to lead to the collapse of society and also cause cause a civil war.
00:09:35.020 And he's like, why? He's like, why do you hate efficiency? And I'm like, why do you hate humanity?
00:09:38.540 uh but then i was like look i'm i'm not against efficiency but we're not ready for it until we
00:09:44.700 create something to replace it so you know until we have something like universal basic income
00:09:48.940 to support all of these people when their jobs are all taken away says the woman who was forced 0.94
00:09:54.260 to take a self-driving car a self-driving car to this fucking wedding yeah um yep which by the way 0.96
00:10:00.160 my husband got in a fight with with the self-driving car with the car yeah we were ejected 0.98
00:10:04.180 Self-driving car.
00:10:05.480 Self-driving car. 1.00
00:10:06.800 Claire, come on.
00:10:09.020 We had to leave. 1.00
00:10:10.500 You can't beat the robots. 0.99
00:10:12.320 And this guy, this fucking dude, this tech bro, was like, what's universal basic income? 0.99
00:10:17.600 No. 1.00
00:10:18.160 I almost threw my spicy margarita in his face.
00:10:22.060 Oh, my God.
00:10:23.540 He just made this book.
00:10:25.160 He just made this book.
00:10:26.140 One romance away from understanding universal basic income.
00:10:31.580 Well, you go get his address and we'll send him one for free.
00:10:35.340 I will. I will. I'll do that when we get off because we're doing God's work right now.
00:10:39.600 We are.
00:10:39.800 It's what we're doing.
00:10:40.900 Okay. I want to take a quick, quick break.
00:10:42.940 And then I want to talk about how you even start something like this.
00:10:47.900 And why is the world, the world of publishing, I think, is ready for this because of how we reach audiences these days.
00:11:01.580 Okay, we're back. We're back with Claire and Erica. This is not the first business the two
00:11:08.320 of you have built together. You have built many, many businesses together, and I'm constantly
00:11:12.380 in awe of you. I have two pieces from Of A Kind still in my closet. I wear them in regular
00:11:18.080 rotation. They are my favorites. And then I talk about you and the company all the time.
00:11:23.760 How did you know that now was a time that you could do this, that you could launch a whole
00:11:28.720 publishing company we put well it took a lot of convincing of ourselves it started with i mean
00:11:37.120 so the real genesis of this is that we were talking about romance constantly and the significance of
00:11:42.580 it and like what excited us about it and the potential of it and where we saw it going and
00:11:47.780 we were like but we're not going to start a business around it and then it became a it got
00:11:52.520 to a point where like are we going to be so mad at ourselves that we didn't start a business around
00:11:56.620 it. And because, as you said, we have started businesses together, we had a healthy amount
00:12:02.640 of trepidation and reticence to jump back in. And so it really took a lot of self-interrogation to
00:12:08.340 be like, how much do you want this? Is it worth it? What guardrails are you going to put up for
00:12:13.540 yourself? How much of your life you're going to give up for this? I mean, I think it's a lot of
00:12:18.460 things that you contend with and probably think about where it's just this sense of like, I can't
00:12:25.400 stop thinking about this thing. I can't stop talking about this thing. I'm sort of obsessed
00:12:29.760 with it and have thoughts on how we would approach it, how we would think about it. Even just, you
00:12:35.480 know, when you're watching a TV show, you get an idea. When you're like at the grocery store,
00:12:39.580 you get an idea and you're like, I can't put this out of my head. Will I, will, if someone else does
00:12:46.220 this, will I be bummed either that they did it or that they didn't execute on it the way I would
00:12:52.520 have wanted to. And that was sort of the point where we were like, we got to do it. We just got
00:12:57.400 to we just got to do it. And to Erica's point, we had had ideas. So we shut down of a kind at
00:13:03.100 the end of 2019 and we started working on this business probably like late 2022, I think. And
00:13:09.260 we had had business ideas in between that time that we said that's a good idea and we don't want
00:13:14.900 to do it. Somebody should. Somebody else should. And so I think we had that healthy amount of like
00:13:19.300 knowing the difference between like a good idea that's that's worth it to you and and one that
00:13:24.180 you will be so well suited to us and our interests and talent um and i think as we started getting
00:13:29.760 further down the road with 831 stories which um okay for a little bit of just like uh
00:13:36.460 stage setting i guess i love stage setting guys we love stage setting i want all of it
00:13:41.700 831 stories is a modern romantic fiction entertainment company the idea is that we
00:13:47.520 are releasing books every two to three months but then we are also building out the worlds for the
00:13:52.100 fans and giving them all the touch points and ways to engage so it's the song by the male main
00:13:57.420 character in this book we've commissioned someone to compose and produce which is so good thank you
00:14:03.220 yeah we are obsessed with it unfortunately we are obsessed with it yeah um the epilogue for the book
00:14:08.900 lives on our website the merch the like fan club t-shirt and the necklace that he gives her in the
00:14:13.860 third act are collaborations with an illustrator and a designer that we've worked with for years
00:14:19.020 um and so really thinking about if romance fans are like any fandom and they like want to touch
00:14:26.240 they want all of the things in the same way that a bravo fan does or a marvel fan does or a beyonce
00:14:30.920 fan does how can we create those worlds for them um but as we started thinking about this we sort
00:14:37.000 of realized that this business is a little bit our first business of a kind flipped on its head
00:14:41.420 um yes this starts with everyone give everyone a quickie quickie of a kind primer yes um so of a
00:14:48.900 kind was a business we ran for nine years where we commissioned emerging designers to create
00:14:53.700 limited edition pieces that we sold exclusively um and then we wrote stories about those designers
00:14:59.220 so that you weren't just like buying a purse or a necklace you were actually felt like you were
00:15:03.300 getting to know that a person and and that these were real people doing things and that this is
00:15:08.060 the recipe they made after you know they wrapped up in the ceramics studio these are the places
00:15:12.640 they went in austin um these like this is how they lived their lives and the things that they
00:15:17.600 cared about um this business 831 is starting with the content and then layering the product and all
00:15:25.420 of those things on top but in that same sort of integrated and authentic way where it is just you
00:15:31.440 know drawing from the source material and like not to get too in the weeds about it but like
00:15:36.520 The hope truly is that at some point people think of 831 as a book business the way people think Marvel is a book business, which is to say not all that much, right?
00:15:46.840 Like Marvel is a storytelling business.
00:15:48.620 Marvel is an entertainment company.
00:15:49.920 Their entire universe is in the touch points at which you can interact with those stories are all over the place and you can comment at different levels and stages.
00:15:57.660 And the hope is to give romance fans that same immersive, joyful experience of being able to really, like, continue a relationship with a story beyond just the book.
00:16:08.100 Because every romance fan, every romance reader knows that experience of finishing a book and having a little bit of heartbreak, being like, oh, my God, but, like, what now?
00:16:15.860 What now?
00:16:16.180 Like, we always call it the internally, we refer to it as the DVD extras, where it's like, how do you just, like, keep a steady drip, you know, of the thing?
00:16:26.240 Keep it going.
00:16:27.660 Keep it going. Well, and creating a universe around a book. I mean, I say this all the time
00:16:31.280 that, you know, I don't even think of myself as an author or just a podcaster anymore. Like I'm
00:16:36.640 creating a world. I'm creating and I run I run an entertainment company, right? You do. Absolutely.
00:16:42.540 Everything feeds off off each other. You know, we've got Sicilian Inheritance, the book. We've
00:16:46.680 got Sicilian Inheritance, the podcast. Yes. I have the sweatshirts for Christmas. Like we've got all
00:16:51.660 of the things because readers are just like any other genre of entertainment consumer we want to
00:16:59.500 live in this world so what you're doing is so smart and i just i think it's very interesting
00:17:06.220 that traditional publishing has not created these kinds of worlds for readers um especially because
00:17:13.640 it's easier now yeah i mean i think in traditional publishing the way it's structured the onus is
00:17:18.880 more on the authors to do it and what is the sort of like bandwidth or capability of the author to
00:17:23.760 do something like that and i will say that a huge inspiration to us is the fact that romance authors
00:17:28.620 there are so many romance authors who are so entrepreneurial and who are doing it um and that
00:17:33.660 was a big inspiration to us to watch these women who were true powerhouses of like understand their
00:17:40.220 audience and their fandom and what they want who are building this out and seeing the romance
00:17:43.720 audiences respond to that and you also see it on the part of romance fans so i always say like
00:17:48.420 We read The Idea of You in 2020 and joined the Facebook group and saw women making August Moon t-shirts and creating fake movie trailers long before anybody was actually making a movie of this book.
00:18:02.040 And so it's like the romance fans are the true inspiration for this and that they have demonstrated what that looks like for us. 0.54
00:18:08.880 Right. But what Claire was saying, too, about, you know, the onus is more on the authors to build this out.
00:18:14.100 The onus in publishing is on the authors in general at this point.
00:18:18.420 Everything. For literally everything. Absolutely everything. And I think that was another
00:18:24.480 consideration that we had in starting this business that watching, you know, going through,
00:18:29.840 we published a book in 2019, a nonfiction book. And so I've had just a taste of that experience.
00:18:35.540 But watching so many friends have to be entrepreneurs and have to be the marketing
00:18:41.220 engine and the sales engine and the events coordinator and every single role in getting
00:18:47.140 a book into the hands of readers and it had just started it just feels like yes some authors really
00:18:52.900 excel at that you are an author who is incredibly good at that like whether or not those are all
00:18:57.340 jobs that you would like to have um but you are very good at it so many people are not um and it
00:19:03.500 just feels like over the last 15 years all of that has been shoved on onto authors in a way that
00:19:09.320 doesn't make sense because not every single author needs to build a brand or build a business in that
00:19:15.420 way um and so we thought what if we make a business that is brand forward um that that
00:19:24.160 doesn't rely on every author to hand sell each book um where the brand can do some of that work
00:19:30.560 and people can over time say oh that's an 831 book i'm going to read it the same way they watch
00:19:35.900 a show because it's an hbo show or a movie because it's a 24 movie exactly yes exactly um and there
00:19:43.500 are those brand allegiances in entertainment, but they just don't really exist in books. And why
00:19:49.400 not? And why not? And why not? Yeah. What does 831 mean? It is like 90s pager code for I love you.
00:19:58.740 So there were eight letters, three words, one meaning. You were either a 143 gal or an 831 gal.
00:20:07.520 I was a 143 gal. 143 has sort of stood the test of time more in the sense that I think it's still
00:20:12.960 used um katie perry just used it yeah that's right that's right yeah but e318 letters three
00:20:18.940 words one meaning sort of like the poetic version you know that really like it is i love it well i
00:20:27.440 also love the cover of big fan it is just beautiful and i will tell you i think another
00:20:33.300 thing that has kept me away from romance for so long is is the covers a lot of different
00:20:38.920 iterations of them yeah first the supermarket fabios and then there has been a new generation
00:20:44.360 where they're very cartoony and i felt like they also worked for me yeah but you're not alone in
00:20:50.220 that uh you are not alone in that no they're very um divisive that even the cartoon covers but i
00:20:56.800 think the thing that no one can deny is that they do really important work for the romance reader
00:21:01.780 which is to say if you are a romance reader and you pick up one of those cartoon books you know
00:21:07.120 what you are getting and you sort of know whether or not it's for you. And I even think like it's
00:21:10.900 signaling. Yeah, it's really important signaling. The true romance reader even can sort of like
00:21:16.420 eyeball the specific type of cartoon and be like, oh, this one's really filthy. Right. Like it's
00:21:21.660 it's and they have always been that way. Right. Same with when it was Fabio. Same with when you
00:21:26.920 had the sort of Judith Krantz, Danielle Steele, like Bonk Buster era. And that and you can't sort 0.93
00:21:33.420 of understate the marketing importance of those signifiers and how monolithic they are within the
00:21:40.060 genre. And so we also felt, like you, that those were not for us and that they were something that
00:21:45.380 had kept us away from the genre for so long, even though certainly I now, when I'm seeking out
00:21:50.920 romance to read, I'm looking for some of those. I'm like, how do I know it's for me if I don't
00:21:54.480 know it's a cartoon cover? So we are obsessed with our design partners in this business. They're
00:21:58.860 an agency called c47 and we came to them with this really challenging assignment that we had
00:22:04.460 no idea how to solve and it was how do you create covers and a brand aesthetic that speaks to the
00:22:10.500 existing romance audience that um honors the existing romance audience and the the history
00:22:16.300 of the genre i mean deep written history yeah you don't want to alienate them you don't want
00:22:21.360 to offend them and you don't want to criticize them right but how do you and how do you make
00:22:24.920 sure that this book also looks at home on the shelf with all of those cartoon books that it
00:22:29.080 doesn't like that that it knows that it belongs there while also potentially reaching the you
00:22:34.020 reader joe and the us reader who five ten years ago might know or even yesterday might have never
00:22:39.320 picked up one of the books with the cartoon covers right yes and they really internalized that like
00:22:46.060 sort of tension and and we think nailed it and so the the color palette of 831 is really a big part
00:22:54.140 of our brand. And it is drawn directly from these sort of bold neon graphic colors that Judith
00:23:00.260 Krantz and Daniel Steele always had in the 80s and 90s. The color black grid ratio that you see
00:23:06.640 on our books is actually broken out into an 8-3-1 ratio. Oh, shut up. Isn't it? That just 0.98
00:23:13.140 like blows my brain away. I'm like, I never would have thought of that. No. And then Little Cupid,
00:23:17.840 the little cupid his name is but his name is bowdacious b-e-a-u um he has an eight and three
00:23:25.840 and a one buried in his design also um his like little his bow is a three the arrow is a one
00:23:34.180 and his like little belt is an eight oh my gosh it is i'm staring at him right now bow so cute
00:23:40.940 and we knew we wanted these books to to be identifiable as 831 that that was as erica
00:23:46.600 this book about like a big piece of this, this ambition is that you would know when something
00:23:51.700 was eight through one and you would know what it meant that it was eight through one. And so all
00:23:54.360 of our books will have that same color block design on it and it will all be different color
00:23:59.200 combos and we'll see us play with it in different ways. But we, that, that piece was really important
00:24:04.780 to us because as you started off, you know, speaking about with this question, these aesthetics
00:24:08.240 are such a big part of romance and always have been. Huge. And, and covers, covers matter more
00:24:14.380 than ever these days uh because it is social media so often yes selling books i mean i hate
00:24:21.560 to say it but look i can get a profile in one of in one of the women's magazines and by in one of
00:24:27.740 the women's magazines i mean online uh but you know on the marie claire the elves the vogues
00:24:33.120 and an influencer holding up a book is going to sell more copies um yeah a right a person anyone
00:24:39.000 holding up a book is going to sell more copies because that is just where we're finding our
00:24:42.440 information now. Yes. Well, and I think there's also for romance been a really big thing over the
00:24:48.080 last five to 10 years of the embrace of romance by a generation younger than us that does not
00:24:56.980 necessarily have the same preconceived notions of romance that grew up with Twilight and Harry
00:25:03.880 Potter and is used to being like a fan of a book in that way and used to vandalizing about books
00:25:11.100 that way and writing fan fiction about books that way and that is like so core to romance readership
00:25:19.800 um and so they have very naturally found their way to this genre and it's just they're less
00:25:24.720 embarrassed about love um too um and it's really i think i'm embarrassed about sex yes for sure
00:25:31.900 for sure and that's been really fun to watch and so you know when people talk about book talk
00:25:36.700 90% of book talk is romance.
00:25:39.140 I know.
00:25:39.960 I know.
00:25:40.760 Yeah.
00:25:41.340 Yeah.
00:25:41.900 All right.
00:25:42.200 Hold on.
00:25:42.480 We're going to take one more quick break.
00:25:43.960 And when we get back, I want to dig into Big Fan a little bit.
00:25:55.940 Okay.
00:25:56.620 We're back with Claire and Erica.
00:25:58.540 This is bringing me so much joy.
00:25:59.880 This is just like this.
00:26:00.780 Same.
00:26:01.020 Me too.
00:26:01.580 I'm so happy.
00:26:02.620 I'm just happy to be with you right now.
00:26:04.540 um like i said earlier i devoured the big fan and this felt this felt like it was a romance
00:26:11.300 created for me in many ways i'm i'm a woman um who i used to be a political journalist i've lived in
00:26:19.980 this world i've only i've only recently started um you know working in in the political genre
00:26:26.120 again i've got this new podcast with emily amick called we've got issues i'm like if not now when
00:26:30.740 you might as well might as well jump back in jump back in um and so our main wait don't forget you
00:26:36.760 were a celebrity gossip reporter i was also a celebrity gossip reporter uh yeah yeah there's
00:26:41.040 so many i should have had you read this for just the authenticity check across all categories for
00:26:46.860 you guys nailed it though i will tell you you because i i really did i mean i was looking at
00:26:50.960 it with a real keen eye i'm like oh i know i know this is this is these are my worlds colliding my
00:26:55.440 friend yeah um give give our audience uh a little bit like a quickie a quickie summary of a big fan
00:27:02.820 i will tell you actually i was interviewing richard osmond uh this last week um about his
00:27:08.480 new book we solve murders and he was so wonderful and so charming and i was like richard give us the
00:27:13.100 tldr and he's like i don't think you're supposed to say too long didn't read about a book and i'm
00:27:16.500 like oh yeah that's really good it's really good okay so that's their whole thing you know
00:27:24.480 Listen, listen. So Maya is a political strategist who just went through a very messy divorce because her ex-husband cheated on her in a public sex scandal, like front page of the Washington Post.
00:27:35.000 Yeah, yeah. 0.75
00:27:35.740 She picks up a new look candidate that she's working with, a gubernatorial candidate, and she is running a UBI initiative when she gets... 0.99
00:27:45.160 Universal basic income. Let's just say it over and over again.
00:27:47.400 universal basic income um she hears from a boy bander whose fan club she ran when she was a
00:27:55.360 teenager who after selling his fashion business wants to relaunch his solo career and wants her
00:28:00.160 help because the work that she did as a teen like getting getting his band out there was
00:28:05.080 the best work the best work going for his band met you she's like no um i i got this other thing
00:28:11.980 going it might in fact be more important than your solo career but they scratch each other's
00:28:17.240 backs he shows up for her events and you know supports universal basic income as sort of his
00:28:22.600 celebrity pet cause um and of course they fall in love and of course they fall in love i mean for me
00:28:27.580 i was trying to figure out who i was picturing while i was okay it's like evan dando wow okay
00:28:37.040 yeah i'm dating i'm gonna date myself yeah i'm liking it yeah yeah evan dando meets like a little
00:28:44.980 bit of john mayer but like take out the douchey yeah careful with the john mayer no i know i know
00:28:50.480 this is what i said this is what i said i'm like i'm like but strip away some because i was thinking 0.67
00:28:55.920 about the boy bandy kind of thing right i'm like so strip away strip away all of those douchey
00:29:00.220 layers um but like yeah i i just i just kept thinking thinking some dando in my head who
00:29:05.960 were you like what bands were you guys into i was also like super into weezer but like i don't i
00:29:11.100 didn't really want to date rivers cuomo i wanted us to like go like drink whiskey in a coffee shop
00:29:16.820 yeah yeah it was a different vibe it was a different vibe he was never a boy band girl
00:29:21.740 like i continue to be deeply turned off by all of the members of nsync and 98 degrees and backstreet
00:29:26.380 boys and i don't even actually know the difference i mean nick lachey hit on my friend and i at the
00:29:31.860 super bowl years and years ago and um invited us back to his hotel room and we said no
00:29:36.640 wow that's actually that's actually exactly what i what i expected for nicholas shay that's what i
00:29:43.320 want for him that's what i want for him yes yes now i didn't love one direction but i love harry
00:29:49.300 styles like on a cellular level oh you know i was thinking a little bit of harry styles too it's
00:29:54.980 just i was like that's it's so like i was i was out of the world right when like when that was
00:30:00.480 happening yes yes yeah yes i mean um but then everybody applies their own boy bander right
00:30:05.920 it's like we've gotten a lot of like well it's obviously joey from new kids i'm like it it it
00:30:11.320 obviously is um yeah of course it's hansen um it's like really like wait what like right
00:30:16.860 you're like it's not obvious but i love not i love all of the things that you're bringing to this
00:30:23.840 i do i do yeah the reason the boy band piece was important was because boy bands are so
00:30:30.280 often the focus of young girl and young women's like fandom. Right. And it was very intentional
00:30:37.360 for us to sort of look at fandom and portray fandom through this lens of it's actually really
00:30:42.800 important. And it teaches young women really valuable skills that then they go on to use
00:30:47.800 in positions of leadership and that they go on to use to make change. I mean, these these young
00:30:51.600 remember like the BTS, like flooding the phone lines like this. Yeah. Like boy band fans organize.
00:31:00.280 It's organization. It's mass communication, right? There are real leadership skills happening. And it's, you know, there are dark sides to fandom too, of course. But this felt like a fun way to show that this sort of like appreciation and respect for fandom because 831 truly would not exist without the fact that romance has this very real and very sort of like beautiful fandom that has also supported and pushed forward this genre for so many decades.
00:31:30.140 and not gotten the credit for the work it has done to truly like float the publishing industry
00:31:34.800 for so long. And so it felt important or felt exciting to us and appealing to us to start
00:31:42.060 from that place with our first book. I mean, romance readers, there are 30 million romance
00:31:46.560 readers in the U.S. 50% read a book a week. Yep. Yep. That is, those numbers are incredible. I mean,
00:31:54.820 as someone who understands book numbers yeah okay yeah um and we're coming up on 70 000 copies of
00:32:02.100 sicilian sold hey wow that's amazing i know yeah yeah and i like i like to say it out loud because
00:32:09.140 i think that so much of the book industry is shrouded in darkness and obfuscation of course
00:32:13.820 and so i'm like no we're at 70 000 all for many yeah it's so many books um and i've been hustling
00:32:21.660 my ass off and it's been six months yeah i like it is it is going to outstrip um almost all of my 0.58
00:32:27.620 other it will it will outstrip all of the other books um because of this hustle um and so like 0.90
00:32:32.940 the number like talking about numbers i think matters talking about who what what women want
00:32:38.300 to read what people want to read um and i think that you guys are really delivering that i really
00:32:43.300 do i'm excited i'm just so excited about what you're doing one other thing that i loved in
00:32:48.900 in big fan um was having a kind male protagonist um i think we're seeing we're seeing a lot of
00:32:57.920 memes this week of of the adam brody of it all in it nobody wants this and charlie in big fan
00:33:04.940 is also a kind good man and another thing that turned me off from a lot of romance for a long
00:33:10.860 time is that i'm actually i'm no longer as a grown-up a fan of enemies to lovers romance
00:33:16.220 people can people can skewer me if they want but like as someone who internalized that i should
00:33:23.080 chase after men who were mean to me for most of my life um that is not a message i want to pass
00:33:29.220 down to my daughters and so can i tell you something i didn't it's real we're working on
00:33:34.340 anemones to lovers right now and i had that realization that that's really it's harder for
00:33:39.440 me right now than it would have been previously to figure out how to like how to wrap my head
00:33:45.860 around it because the kindness is so important well it's got to be i think the trickiness of
00:33:51.140 like making that work is that it's got to be in this case they were enemies in high school
00:33:55.640 which is a different kind of thing and i'm like okay if we can like it's got they and they have
00:34:01.340 to sort of just have hated each other in high school for reasons that were more about themselves
00:34:04.660 than the other person um right but i agree that like there's a no asshole policy yes like i'm
00:34:11.060 that's not interested i'm not in like i'm not interested in the guy who's just like kind of a 0.90
00:34:15.640 dick but he's nice to that one person yeah no and that one person happens to be our female main
00:34:20.040 character no thanks no thanks this is a podcast called under the influence can i say that i think
00:34:25.940 that this is um one positive outgrowth of tiktok is that i see so many women being open about what 0.89
00:34:34.300 it looks like to like be trapped with an asshole like i i've got i've ended up on the side of tiktok 0.80
00:34:39.320 where i'm like wow if i had been exposed to this when i was younger i feel like the openness with 0.97
00:34:44.020 with a lot of women talk about their relationship stuff makes you i think is making younger women
00:34:49.720 smarter about what they need in a relationship and what they look for um and has like shifted 0.82
00:34:54.000 that and i think that has like truly uh paved the way for that the never nobody wants this
00:34:59.420 yeah that we are nobody wants this moment watching like watching everyone swoon over
00:35:04.480 adam brody hot rabbi like nicest man on earth vibe it's just such a treat it's such a treat 0.92
00:35:13.660 yeah it really is it really is because i am someone who chased the mr biggs my entire life 0.95
00:35:21.800 who treated me like shit but i was like but this is what we're supposed to do right that's what 0.98
00:35:25.880 we're supposed to want and aspire to and i married a fucking aiden all right so yeah yeah do you 0.99
00:35:32.780 remember when we met which which time like which time like i feel like really sure the time that i 0.95
00:35:39.840 remember the most yeah standing around the pool at the flamingo hotel on yes that time that time
00:35:45.520 yes because you were with we had crossed paths at events before yes we had we had you're right
00:35:49.920 this was the first time we talked you were with a an f a now ex-boyfriend i think you thought you
00:35:55.040 were gonna marry you were at the wedding of somebody who did that did not last like i it 0.98
00:35:59.900 It was just such a different time for herself.
00:36:01.460 Who married, yeah, a person.
00:36:03.000 Who married much more of a Mr. Big than an Aiden.
00:36:04.980 Much more of a Mr. Big than an Aiden, but now she's with an Aiden.
00:36:07.580 Now she's with an Aiden.
00:36:08.880 She's really with an Aiden.
00:36:10.260 She's really. 0.77
00:36:10.880 You can cut all this, but it keeps coming back to me as we're talking.
00:36:14.300 It's really funny to think about the chapters we've all known each other through.
00:36:18.900 We've all known each other through.
00:36:19.940 Exactly.
00:36:20.520 Well, so, and I just, look, you guys did a beautiful job with Big Fan.
00:36:23.160 I think you're going to do a gorgeous job with this publishing company.
00:36:25.860 I'm just so proud of you.
00:36:27.180 Thank you, Jo.
00:36:28.020 Thank you for reading and for having us.
00:36:29.760 and for just getting it.
00:36:31.260 I love it.
00:36:33.060 And that is all we have for today.
00:36:35.140 Thank you for joining me.
00:36:36.860 Definitely grab your copy of Big Fan.
00:36:39.360 It's so cute.
00:36:40.920 I wasn't bullshitting when I said
00:36:42.620 that the cover is absolutely gorgeous.
00:36:46.220 And like we said, it is a bite-sized novel.
00:36:49.020 So it fits really, really snugly
00:36:52.260 into the back pocket of your jeans.
00:36:54.680 And you can just whip it out on the subway.
00:36:57.280 Whip it, whip it, whip it right out, folks.
00:36:59.760 Pun intended, I guess, I guess. And enjoy it during your commute.
00:37:04.760 Don't forget that I have a new paperback novel coming out a long time from now. A long time.
00:37:11.560 But you can pre-order it already. Everyone is Lying to You is available now wherever books are
00:37:16.400 sold. And it is also going to be a delicious romp. Now go do something nice for yourself.
00:37:21.640 You deserve it.
00:37:29.760 We'll see you next time.
00:37:59.760 You