00:11:30.620It's what I call vulnerability or vulnerable shit where people be like, you know, vulnerability alert.0.90
00:11:37.640And then they'll say, like, I'm really feeling less than about my seven figure launch that I just had because I just feel worthy.0.93
00:11:48.000Vulnerability. Vulnerability. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you see it so much in influencer culture.
00:11:53.380Yes. Yes. Like they'll they'll say, like, you know, I may look hot in this shot of me on the roof in Santorini, but behind the picture is someone who was just miserable, starving herself.
00:12:06.140And then it took, you know, like all day long to get just one good shot.
00:12:11.900And I was sweating and being hard on myself.
00:12:14.860But then it's a flawless photo of the person.
00:20:32.220Make sure that they're like, oh, oh, with just one thing.
00:20:36.180And it doesn't have to be you don't have to make them cry on every page, but make them stop.
00:20:40.760And you have a great list on your website about like what what makes you feel like something is valuable when you're reading it or watching it.
00:20:51.060And I love this because it completely relates to what I try to do in fiction.
00:20:55.920so it's like either make me laugh give me goosebumps get me riled up gross me out make
00:21:04.160me drool make me feel like I'm not the only crazy one or make me feel a little bit smarter than when
00:21:10.360I just woke up there's so much more but like these are all things that I think we should all be
00:21:16.600thinking about when we're putting out anything into the world like what are you what's the point
00:21:22.120what's the point of what you're saying what's the point of what you're writing what is someone
00:21:26.000gonna feel when they're reading this and if it's nothing then maybe don't do it right well also
00:21:34.020so that that post was a reaction to this overuse of the word value yeah that you hear so much if
00:21:41.020you are if you study marketing if you're all in the online space you hear people say over and over
00:21:46.120you've got to deliver value, like massive value, drop value bombs. And by that, they usually mean
00:21:53.340like fictionable content, takeaways, tips and takeaways that people can implement right away.
00:21:59.800And I just feel like that is so far from the only form of value. And it's not a form of value that
00:22:06.740I even really look for. I mean, I like the occasional life hack if it works. I'm glad I
00:22:11.800learned totally um to pack my shoes in shower caps in my suitcase like that was really great
00:22:18.820information but otherwise like i don't need constant tips and tricks and lessons and like
00:22:26.740you because you wrote because you write fiction and your book is a novel um i feel like you don't
00:22:33.400have the same problem of an audience who's saying who's opening it thinking what am i going to learn
00:22:40.160from this. Like, I hope I'm going to learn something from this. I hope I'm going to become
00:22:45.220a better person from reading this. They just get to lose themselves in it. And that's the kind of
00:22:51.320book that I try to write. And I think that I did, like, I think I succeeded, but I know I have an
00:22:56.600audience. I think there are a lot of people who are looking to learn something and extract that
00:23:04.440that kind of value and i think it's so much more important and satisfying to provide the kind you
00:23:10.640were just talking about like you know distraction entertainment um emotion emotion joy joy are you
00:23:18.780making me feel a feeling right yes yes all of those things like i don't need yet another hack
00:23:25.700for how to put the duvet in the duvet cover actually i could probably use that well they0.99
00:23:32.240know because they never work because they're all lies they're all dirty fucking lies okay0.99
00:23:36.240i've tried everything and i'm still the person that is climbing in to the damn cover with my1.00
00:23:42.400whole body every single time to try to get it in there corners to try to get the corners in there0.62
00:23:49.100i climb in i climb in and i pancake myself in there and nothing that i ever read works so0.98
00:23:54.120they're all just lies they're all dirty dirty lies from terrible people so don't even bother0.60
00:23:59.720don't even bother learning anything don't even want to do a cover anymore no one had them when0.96
00:24:05.120we were growing up everyone just had a quilt and maybe it was disgusting but whatever right it was
00:24:09.800mauve yeah and right it came in its own cover like the one i had in college from caldors
00:24:15.700yeah exactly exactly and i just i didn't have to climb into anything no no those were the days i
00:24:21.480forgot about that were those were the good old days the good old days when we were so hot and
00:24:26.520we didn't know it and you didn't have to climb into a duvet cover no and you didn't have to
00:24:31.880worry about your personal brand I would I would love not to think about my personal brand I mean
00:24:37.620I would love just to write books and have someone else sell them for me yeah that's and I'm sure
00:24:44.200that my friend who is a dentist would love to just do teeth things but you know these days
00:24:51.180someone will then google or look on instagram for their dentist and be like I like that dentist
00:24:56.460dentist's pictures better than another dentist. Right. Right. No, you have to you have to market
00:25:02.340yourself like no one will do it for you or your thing won't do it for you unless I was going to0.97
00:25:08.260say unless you're a drug dealer. But still, people have a choice. No, people have a choice. People
00:25:12.220have a choice in that market. I will tell you, I mean, I know a lot of drug dealers that are
00:25:15.800killing it on social media these days. Believe it. They they are because, yeah, there's there
00:25:21.700is a market for that and there's you have you you bet you best be branding you best be branding
00:25:27.160yourself be branding and I bet they're out there being themselves which is very different from the
00:25:31.980days when I used to buy drugs um in my 20s and when it was just like who's available who's
00:25:39.640available I wouldn't know because I was too much of a dork I never like I didn't even try weed
00:25:45.260until i was 26 just one joint like one joint that's it i you know do you like weed i can't
00:25:52.140have weed i it just doesn't it doesn't work it doesn't work for me it doesn't work for my body
00:25:58.120i now take um cannabis gummies thc ones oh the thc ones yeah for sleep yeah i tried them to get
00:26:05.240high like someone was like oh this is you know this one's a great high and it just made me take
00:26:10.420a nap and i was like i'm gonna start taking these for sleep because i couldn't sleep yeah and they
00:26:16.020work like a dream but um it never like it never got me high only got me sleepy and i never tried
00:26:24.560anything else because i grew up in the like 10 years before you so yeah i was part of the the
00:26:30.680just say no era i was you were you were yeah when like nbc had a week it was heaven for me because
00:26:38.640i was obsessed with drugs without ever trying to nbc had a week called get high on yourself week
00:26:44.400and wow i still look back at it as like the best week of my life or at least the best tv week
00:26:50.680of my run every night was a different special like made for tv movie um one of them starring
00:26:59.260helen hunt uh called is that the one where she falls up um jumps out the window after taking
00:27:05.560Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that one. I remember that one. Yeah.1.00
00:27:08.340Desperate Lives. It was so good. So good. So good. I mean, I love I loved me a good after
00:27:12.920school special. I did too. It is so funny now, though, because I have a lot of friends
00:27:17.540who I can't have I can't have the pot. I wish that I wish it would either get me high or put
00:27:22.440me to sleep. I just get anxious and like feel like a crazy person. Yeah. Yeah. You know what?
00:27:27.180I tried. I tried sativa one time. I learned that I had to learn the difference. Like is in the couch.
00:27:35.560and sativa is the one that makes you high and i tried like i bought a one hitter um under the
00:27:43.420guidance of a friend at uh at med men in la oh yeah of course and this was right after i'd gotten
00:27:52.220my first feedback from my editor on my book on the chapters i'd given her and it was not good
00:27:59.720and so I tried this to like make me feel better and I was so anxious that like my husband was
00:28:08.020like what's wrong and I was like things aren't good that was all I could say things aren't good
00:28:12.660things aren't good no that's what happens to me literally every time and everyone that I know
00:28:19.180um like wants to give me advice they're like well try this strain or do it like this or this
00:28:24.400tincture and I'm like I've tried it all okay I've tried it all it is a thing that doesn't work for
00:28:29.100me. But what I do find very funny now is that I have a lot of friends who work in the like
00:28:35.000legalizing cannabis industry who like run a venture capital firm that like invests in cannabis
00:28:42.600and they still do the dare classes in school and their kids are like, so are drugs bad or is it
00:28:48.740daddy's work? I'm just like so curious about that. And I'm like, wow. Yeah, no, there's like
00:28:55.120There's so much new things to talk to kids about these days.
00:32:04.100You know, I like I don't regret it because I feel like Tough Titties, like the name is what got it attention in the first place and helped sell it.
00:36:25.100And we are back. I'm very excited to share another book that I've really been enjoying right now.
00:36:33.240It's not easy to find books, which is why I just I love telling you what I'm loving.
00:36:39.340One of those books is Sandwich by Katherine Newman, hoping to have her on later in the summer.
00:36:46.160oh my god I mean it is it is a delight it is it is a little novel but it is packed with with joy
00:36:54.660and love and you will snort laugh out loud it is so good it is so good pick up sandwich today
00:37:00.360another book that I'm reading right now that I adore is The Memo by Rachel Dodes and Lauren
00:37:07.780Meckling and you know it's sliding doors if sliding doors were better you know I think we
00:37:14.160all love a good do-over novel, and that's exactly what this is. Today, we have Rachel and Lauren
00:37:20.040here right now to talk to us about it. I love the premise of the memo so much. I want you to
00:37:28.400explain it in your own words. Okay, so you know that feeling that you did not get the memo?
00:37:35.440Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. I mean, I feel it every day, and I feel like there should also be
00:37:40.020like some kind of weird german word for it or something should be i don't know if there is um
00:37:45.140i should find out i was living in germany last year but so that feeling that you didn't get the
00:37:50.300memo we felt it um really strongly during the pandemic and we wanted to we were like what if
00:37:57.220there actually was a memo so our story follows the trajectory of a character named jenny green
00:38:04.140who is approaching her 36th birthday and dreading going to her college reunion where all of her
00:38:11.300friends seem to have gotten the memo they're all killing it at work and she's kind of living in0.98
00:38:17.480pittsburgh with the boyfriend who's cheating on her and working for a fake feminist organization
00:38:24.680and at her reunion she discovers that in fact there is a memo that she did not get and she
00:38:31.560gets the chance to go back and undo her worst mistakes. But at what cost? But at what cost?
00:38:37.800Yes, I love it. I love it so much because I will tell you, I use the analogy of sliding doors
00:38:44.320so often. I've also realized that people use the analogy of sliding doors who've never actually
00:38:49.580seen the movie Sliding Doors. We love the chance at a do-over or the idea of a do-over. And so
00:38:57.940I mean, that's what I kept thinking of when when I was I was reading this book.
00:39:01.780And I think it's so smartly done because so many of us in the pandemic were thinking, did I make all of the wrong decisions?
00:39:08.620And what would I have changed if someone had just told me what to do?
00:39:11.980If someone had just like given me more of a nudge to be like, oh, this is what you're supposed to do next.
00:39:18.360I think that Lauren and I had both been pretty successful early on in our careers.
00:39:24.740And then we found ourselves like underemployed freelancers whose work was drying up, overseeing remote schooling for our kids and, you know, fading into invisibility.
00:39:39.860And he wanted to kind of rage against that. And this project helped us sort of tell the emotional truth of what that experience was like, even though it's set in a different location and the characters a different age. I feel like it encompassed the feelings we were feeling at that time.
00:40:00.780Yes, yes. And I think the feelings that so many so many women feel. You and Lauren wrote this book together. I've co-written lots of books.
00:40:10.060I know, you're like a co-writing icon.
00:40:14.880And I get asked this question so much at book events. It's like, how do you do it? And I know every writing duo does it differently. How did you two do it?
00:40:24.760OK, well, I want to hear how you did it after I tell you this. But we I was very adamant that we had to have a roadmap. So we spoke on the phone while we had our Google Doc open and created an outline, a very detailed outline, almost like a beat sheet for a television show, you know, and that we would dip in and out of the document and she would be like, OK, I took a crack at chapter one.
00:40:54.480could you take a look and i would go over it and edit it and delete things and we had um like a
00:41:01.140judgment free zone and a taking free zone and we had worked together before so there was like that
00:41:07.500trust baked into our relationship and slowly but surely the document just grew and you know by the
00:41:14.080end it was unclear who wrote what because we had both touched every single sentence
00:41:20.100so lauren tell me why you wanted to write this book i wanted to write a book that was a fun
00:41:27.960book for people who don't read books anymore to remember what it's like to read a book that you
00:41:34.140love yes right guys that is exactly what i was thinking about during sicilian inheritance i mean
00:41:39.860i was also writing in the throes of the pandemic and i read a lot of books and i read a lot of
00:41:45.800good books that like don't make me feel good too I'm like oh god I feel like shit about the world
00:41:50.400right now and I wanted to read I wanted to write what I wanted to read I wanted to read something
00:41:54.780fun and engaging that I would want to talk about with my friends and and that's what I did and I
00:42:01.240feel like that's what you guys did with the memo which is pretty awesome right like I've been I've
00:42:05.520actually heard about your book from uh readers when I've been at book events just in the past
00:42:11.440couple days because I'm doing too many book events because I'm a psycho, who've been like,
00:42:15.880oh, yeah, you know, I started this, I downloaded it, I listened to it. And I hadn't read anything
00:42:19.740in a while. Sicilian got me reading again. And like this was the perfect follow up for that.
00:42:24.680And so I love converting people who stopped reading because they were exhausted or who I
00:42:29.880also love converting non-readers. And so I feel like you guys are doing that, which is really great.
00:42:35.100That's amazing. And it sort of has some similarities to Sicilian in that like it
00:42:39.240takes place in two different jumps back and forth so it jumps back and forth yeah exactly
00:42:46.700well and it's it's funny because I do I can see this as a tv series so clear so clearly um you
00:42:54.160know and it could just keep going and going it's like there's different memos right there's a whole
00:42:58.640department of memos going on uh and so yeah I think that this this is so fun I really do think
00:43:04.520that um did you get the memo is now going to be the shorthand for the oh it was a sliding doors
00:43:09.540moment yeah i hope so yeah well if you re-watch sliding doors it doesn't really hold up is the
00:43:16.620problem i hadn't re-watched it in a long time and i was like oh huh it's a different movie than i
00:43:22.620remembered right now i re-watched it recently and i was like this is really a tale of two haircuts
00:43:28.160you know yes yes that is exactly what it is it is a tale of two haircuts and also just like
00:43:36.060mostly insipid men i'm like really none of these men are doing it for me right but the concept is
00:43:43.000so good that like you so good it doesn't matter right you know and yeah that stays with you
00:43:50.320and that's what stays with you i feel like so much i mean rachel and i we always tell people
00:43:54.100We read a time travel novel and they want to know what era it was set in.
00:43:58.460And I feel like Sliding Doors is actually the like Eminence grace of like the work of art that reminds us that you can be time travel, but actually the time can even just be like 12 minutes off.