Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： LEAD

00:00:00.000 Hey y'all, welcome to Sunday Nice Things. I really hope you're giving yourself a break

00:00:06.800 today. You deserve it. Whether that means you're taking a nap, you're listening to

00:00:10.720 this episode, or you're just sitting down and staring at a wall, which is one of my

00:00:18.180 new favorite hobbies. It truly is. Just sitting down and like blank Gen Z staring at a wall

00:00:25.620 really, really clears my brain. I highly recommend it. Anyway, I just hope you're doing something for 1.00

00:00:31.720 you today because you deserve it. Today, I'm dropping a new podcast in your feed that I think

00:00:39.660 you're really gonna enjoy. It's pretty deep, okay? So many of us are wondering why our government is

00:00:45.880 not working for us today. Why our representatives are so damn ineffectual. I mean, seriously, 0.86

00:00:52.140 Simple bills that would protect so many people are just not getting passed.

00:01:00.460 And this episode is about something very specific.

00:01:03.360 It's very Erin Brockovich-y.

00:01:05.100 It digs deep into the Lead Paint Right to Know Act, which is a bill that got stuck in

00:01:10.600 committee and then never brought to the floor for a vote, regardless of the fact that it

00:01:15.240 passed the Assembly with the largest margin yet.

00:01:17.940 The podcast is called Lead, and it's an audio drama made by a mom whose son has suffered terribly from extensive lead poisoning.

00:01:27.680 The whole episode is about how our governments could be doing so much more to protect us.

00:01:31.620 But right now, they're all just peacocking and grandstanding and not passing actual bills that will change people's real lives.

00:01:39.360 I think you'll love this one, and I'll put the link in show notes if you want to listen to more.

00:01:47.940 Lead. How this story ends is up to us.

00:02:05.520 A true story written by Shannon Burkett, directed by Alan Taylor, starring Merit Weaver, Alessandra Nivola, Cynthia Nixon, and me, Cooper Burkett.

00:02:17.940 If I only knew then, what I know now.

00:02:22.200 On a typical New York City winter night in December of 2006, I sat at our kitchen table.

00:02:27.680 The table we inherited from your brother's divorce.

00:02:30.240 I sat across from my husband, Andy, in our apartment that occupies the second and third floor directly above the street-level store space.

00:02:39.140 All day?

00:02:40.380 Oh, I thought my morning sickness with Alice was bad.

00:02:43.160 Not too much longer.

00:02:44.320 I put my hand on the table to steady myself and felt something coating the surface.

00:02:49.940 What is that?

00:02:51.160 I picked up a folder off the table.

00:02:53.100 And the outline of the dust was striking.

00:02:56.260 The dust was everywhere.

00:02:58.700 Where is it coming from?

00:03:02.360 I opened the door to our apartment to see if the dust was coming in from the hallway.

00:03:06.600 Shannon, come down here, now.

00:03:10.820 I run to Andy, who was at the bottom of the stairs.

00:03:14.140 Look.

00:03:16.000 I looked up to see swirls of dust illuminated by the lights.

00:03:20.840 Within minutes, our apartment looked like an old Victorian house that hadn't been lived in for 30 years.

00:03:26.500 Andy opened the second floor door to check the hallway.

00:03:31.100 There's no dust in the hallway.

00:03:32.840 Where is it coming from?

00:03:35.020 The store space?

00:03:36.180 The front half of the store space below our apartment was being renovated to house a new bank branch.

00:03:41.680 Construction was in the demo phase and the dust permeated our, and only our, apartment of 49 units.

00:03:49.760 But how is the dust getting into the apartment?

00:03:51.960 I don't know. It's like it's coming through the floor.

00:03:54.420 Like osmosis?

00:03:55.520 It's impossible. The floor between our apartment and the store space is made of concrete several feet thick.

00:04:01.200 Where are you going?

00:04:02.460 I'm getting my camera.

00:04:03.740 By the grace of God, goddess, universe, fate, Andy is an amateur photographer who used to photograph everything.

00:04:11.020 Like when you took a picture of our daughter eating the cat's food out of the bowl instead of stomping her.

00:04:15.760 That's a cute picture.

00:04:17.140 It is. Yes, it is.

00:04:18.880 But without those photos that he took that night, Cooper might have gotten even sicker.

00:04:25.680 Wait, Andy, before you take another picture, let me take off the books.

00:04:29.960 Oh, my God.

00:04:31.240 The outline of books, mail, and two glasses were etched inside a thick layer of dust on the table, sharp and exact.

00:04:41.460 The dust was everywhere.

00:04:44.460 It's even worse downstairs.

00:04:46.920 The toaster is covered in dust.

00:04:50.420 I ran my fingers through the dust.

00:04:52.800 We were running our fingers through the dust, remember?

00:04:55.620 Yeah.

00:04:56.420 Breathing in all that dust.

00:04:58.720 Yeah.

00:04:59.120 And I was pregnant.

00:05:01.240 Yeah.

00:05:04.360 The toy shelf. How am I supposed to clean all of this?

00:05:08.520 Every single part of our lives was contaminated.

00:05:11.760 Where we ate, where we slept, where Alice played with her toys.

00:05:16.000 Oh, the toys.

00:05:17.600 Everyone from the construction site went home. It's late. We'll have to talk to the building tomorrow.

00:05:23.920 Shannon, piano.

00:05:27.400 The rug. Andy, the dust is everywhere.

00:05:31.240 Inside our cabinets, on our dishes.

00:05:35.220 We were breathing in all this dust, eating in it, playing in it.

00:05:39.960 Alice was only five years old.

00:05:42.020 We didn't know.

00:05:43.180 The dust infestation happened for months.

00:05:45.760 Dust would permeate our and only our apartment in the building.

00:05:49.960 That first time, the contractor from the construction site and his guys came in

00:05:54.340 and tried to tape up imaginary holes.

00:05:57.540 Our holes, according to the contractor, were the cause of the dust infestation.

00:06:09.820 My daughter is only five years old. I'm pregnant. Is there anything, anything in the dust we should

00:06:15.840 be worried about? No, I give you my word. But there's nothing. Do you think I'd have my guys

00:06:21.360 in this if there was something in that dust? I looked to one of his construction workers,

00:06:25.700 his guys who was taping up the holes, but he just avoided eye contact with me. I did not trust

00:06:31.280 the contractor, but I didn't know what else to do. Just order a cleaning service. Give me an

00:06:37.100 invoice. We'll reimburse you. For months, we fought with the construction company who said there was

00:06:43.120 nothing that could be done to stop the dust from infiltrating our apartment. And we fought with

00:06:47.780 the building who all said there was nothing that could be done to stop the construction. In fact,

00:06:53.500 We were informed that we were lucky the bank was paying for the cleanings when the dust became intolerable. 0.99

00:06:58.840 One time the bank sent these poor women, this cleaning crew, from one of our local banks.

00:07:02.960 And when I told them what they were there to do, they were not happy.

00:07:06.880 Are they for real?

00:07:08.000 I am so sorry you were not informed.

00:07:10.620 Cleaning a dust-filled apartment was clearly not what they signed up for.

00:07:14.220 I think about the workers who cleaned this apartment when it was filled with dust.

00:07:19.340 I think about the workers who worked in that construction site day after day.

00:07:25.740 We were so trusting.

00:07:28.720 Or did we not have a choice?

00:07:43.380 In July 2007, the construction on the first half of the store space was completed.

00:07:49.340 A bank opened up, and Cooper was born.

00:07:56.120 Do I have to reenact being a baby?

00:07:58.740 You didn't cry when you were first born.

00:08:00.820 You just came out and looked at me like... 1.00

00:08:03.400 What's up, woman? You my mom?

00:08:05.280 You were so calm.

00:08:06.880 And chill, like now.

00:08:09.120 Right. You had these old soul eyes, this cute little baby bear body,

00:08:15.020 and I was so much calmer.

00:08:16.160 With your second kid, you're not worried all the time that something bad is going to happen.

00:08:20.660 I guess that was a mistake.

00:08:22.720 Hey, there's this 9-11 study we can sign up for.

00:08:25.920 The EPA is looking for leftover toxic chemicals in residential apartments downtown.

00:08:29.820 And if they find anything, they'll clean our apartment for free.

00:08:33.840 Andy loves free.

00:08:36.640 Furniture off the street.

00:08:38.100 Samples at Costco.

00:08:39.400 We figured we should make sure the apartment was safe after the dust infestation.

00:08:43.860 And it was free.

00:08:44.520 Meanwhile, Mr. Cooper, the super pooper, was living up to his name.

00:08:48.860 And still do. I was a super baby.

00:08:51.760 Rolled over one way at two months.

00:08:53.640 The other way at three months.

00:08:54.740 Crawled before six months, speaking five words at nine months.

00:08:58.880 Mama, dada, hi, bye, alla.

00:09:01.840 For Alice.

00:09:02.540 My sister was not so happy I was a boy.

00:09:05.200 At first. But once she held you in her arms.

00:09:08.200 But I did things faster than her. At nine months.

00:09:10.780 Pointed. Responded to his name. Cooper!

00:09:13.820 Yep, that's my name, and I'm responding to it. 0.89

00:09:16.680 We got the 9-11 study. 0.52

00:09:19.320 Free cleaning.

00:09:21.000 In the spring of 2008, things had calmed down after the construction dust nightmare.

00:09:28.620 Or so I thought.

00:09:31.260 Construction started on the second half of the store space.

00:09:34.540 Relax.

00:09:35.120 It's the same contractor.

00:09:36.700 No dust in the apartment.

00:09:38.880 So far.

00:09:40.420 The 9-11 study field scientists came and set up their equipment.

00:09:45.080 I felt like I was with Elliot when he was helping E.T. phone home.

00:09:50.140 Who?

00:09:50.740 E.T., we showed you that movie.

00:09:52.920 Mom, remember my memory?

00:09:55.040 But that should be in your long-term memory.

00:09:57.440 Can you really not remember?

00:09:59.120 The movie with E.T. the alien and...

00:10:01.820 Penis breath. 0.99

00:10:02.760 Ah, the one line you remember. 0.99

00:10:04.780 I don't remember anything with the word penis in it. 1.00

00:10:07.180 Penis is my go-to word. I'll start word. My second is farts. 1.00

00:10:10.760 In case you were all wondering what it's like to live with a teenage boy. 0.85

00:10:13.840 Ta-da! Penis! 1.00

00:10:15.640 Then the phone rang, just a few days after Cooper's nine-month visit to the pediatrician. 0.99

00:10:20.980 Yes?

00:10:21.620 It's Dr. Nicky.

00:10:22.680 Cooper's pediatrician. Doctors don't call unless something's wrong.

00:10:26.100 What's wrong?

00:10:26.880 Cooper has an elevated lead level of seven.

00:10:30.160 What?

00:10:30.700 His blood lead level is seven. He has lead poisoning.

00:10:34.200 but maybe, I'm sure he must have just gotten some on his hands

00:10:37.820 and it got into the finger prick sample.

00:10:39.960 We need a venous test to be sure.

00:10:41.800 I take both kids to get their blood drawn, 1.00

00:10:43.580 and this is where we learn Alice has a phobia of needles.

00:10:48.600 His lead level is actually higher.

00:10:51.420 Nine.

00:10:51.920 How?

00:10:52.660 Do you have any dishes from China?

00:10:55.220 Any pottery?

00:10:56.240 Crayons?

00:10:57.100 Keep him out of the sandbox.

00:10:58.580 Look around at your park for any potential sources.

00:11:01.560 I run over the Brooklyn Bridge a lot.

00:11:03.420 Take your shoes off and leave them outside until we figure out how he's getting sick.

00:11:08.240 I spent the month racking my brain, washing Cooper's hands, washing everything, not letting him in the sandbox.

00:11:14.740 I was so careful.

00:11:17.120 One month after his first blood test, we rechecked his levels.

00:11:20.360 His level is 19.

00:11:21.720 What?

00:11:22.280 His blood work also revealed that his creatine and kidney function levels were showing signs of distress.

00:11:27.440 Lead poisoning can cause kidney failure.

00:11:29.560 How did it go up?

00:11:30.700 I don't know, but we need to figure this out.

00:11:33.420 A level higher than 12 means the health department is going to be involved.

00:11:36.820 In the time since Cooper's diagnosis, the CDC has moved the goalpost on their threshold for lead in 2012 down to 10,

00:11:45.320 and then in 2021 to 3.5, because we now know there is no safe, measurable level of lead.

00:11:54.000 In 2022, over 5,000 children in the city of New York were diagnosed with lead poisoning.

00:12:00.040 And again, in 2023, another 5,000 children lead poisoned.

00:12:06.940 Back then, all those years ago, I watched as my son got sicker, and I had no idea how.

00:12:12.660 I wanted to just pick him up and run away, far away.

00:12:16.480 The cow jumped over the moon.

00:12:18.600 The cat was...

00:12:19.520 Andy, we need to move.

00:12:21.200 Shannon, we don't know where the lead is coming from.

00:12:23.480 We could move, and it could follow us.

00:12:25.700 We could find out it came from a dish or a toy.

00:12:27.860 He jumped out of Earth.

00:12:30.920 I was frozen with fear, with ignorance, lost in the dark,

00:12:35.880 until Jane from the EPA, who was overseeing the 9-11 study, called.

00:12:41.000 Mrs. Chris? 0.86

00:12:42.120 Shannon.

00:12:42.940 Shannon, we found an unusually high level of lead in some dust on a ledge, 829 micrograms.

00:12:49.680 Back then, infrequently accessed areas were allowed 400 and accessible areas 40.

00:12:54.420 What ledge?

00:12:55.440 Here. Ledge is way up here.

00:12:57.040 Our apartment has this weird 80s design that only someone with a massive coke habit would think was a good idea. 0.81

00:13:05.340 Andy and I were spiraling into debt just to pay our mortgage. 0.99

00:13:08.620 Renovating was not an option.

00:13:10.420 We found this apartment off Craigslist.

00:13:12.440 When we got pregnant with our first, Andy and I were living in a small studio I had bought in 1998.

00:13:17.520 We sold it in 2003 and used the money as a down payment for this place.

00:13:21.780 For those out-of-towners, every New Yorker talks about real estate.

00:13:25.220 So our mortgage was strangling us. So we lived with hand-me-down furniture and an 80s design that was about as charming as shoulder pads and parachute pants.

00:13:37.600 The ledge Jane was speaking of is high up and not easily reachable, let alone one you would dust on a regular basis.

00:13:44.920 Or ever.

00:13:46.480 With the higher levels came the swift realization of what exactly lead can do to a baby's body.

00:13:53.120 A baby's brain.

00:13:55.780 He stopped speaking.

00:13:57.800 All the words he just learned, mama, dada, hi, bye, alla for Alice.

00:14:04.360 Gone.

00:14:05.740 He stopped pointing.

00:14:07.600 stopped waving, stopped responding to his name. Cooper. Cooper. Cooper. He just disappeared

00:14:21.000 inside his brain. The EPA was all I had left to try and find the source of the lead. I called Jane.

00:14:29.500 Jane, his lead levels are up to 19. I'm so sorry. Do you have any idea what the source of the

00:14:34.760 Exposure could be.

00:14:35.800 No, I need your help.

00:14:37.520 I wish I could.

00:14:38.780 But you work for the EPA.

00:14:40.320 But we can't help individuals.

00:14:42.240 I'll do anything, please.

00:14:43.980 He stopped speaking.

00:14:45.280 He stopped responding to his name.

00:14:48.100 My boss, John, is a toxicologist.

00:14:50.940 The best.

00:14:51.900 If anyone can figure out how your son is getting sick, it's him.

00:14:55.280 I'm begging you, please.

00:14:57.140 This has to be an unofficial visit.

00:14:59.420 Yes.

00:15:00.220 We could get fired.

00:15:01.160 Even though the government is for the people and by the people,

00:15:04.320 the people who worked for the EPA were not allowed to come into my apartment and give

00:15:08.640 their professional assessment on how my son was getting sick. Andy and I waited anxiously at the

00:15:14.020 door for Jane and John. The visit that never happened. Jane was on the younger side, extremely

00:15:20.220 intelligent, professional, but her soft curls betrayed an inner vulnerability, empathy. John

00:15:27.280 was a true New Yorker through and through, big heart. I knew he was a Yankees fan because he had

00:15:32.500 That mustache that all the fans were wearing is a good luck charm.

00:15:35.860 He looked like he had played ball.

00:15:39.540 This is John.

00:15:40.940 Very nice to meet you.

00:15:42.000 Thank you so much for coming.

00:15:43.300 I was never here.

00:15:44.380 Right.

00:15:44.980 Of course.

00:15:45.660 So, is this the little guy?

00:15:47.480 Yeah.

00:15:48.240 Let's figure this out.

00:15:49.740 He's a bloodhound when it comes to lead.

00:15:51.620 We went through the whole apartment.

00:15:53.400 I showed John and Jane all the walls.

00:15:55.740 These are the older plaster walls?

00:15:57.760 No, those walls are intact.

00:16:00.060 Lead can stay safely inside walls as long as there aren't any cracks or breakdown.

00:16:03.860 Uh, the toys?

00:16:05.060 No.

00:16:05.640 The crib?

00:16:06.440 No.

00:16:07.400 Um, dishes?

00:16:08.580 No.

00:16:09.420 Crayons?

00:16:10.360 Pottery?

00:16:10.960 Clothes?

00:16:11.540 Towels?

00:16:12.280 Uh, books?

00:16:13.100 No, no, no, no.

00:16:14.940 There was that high level of lead and some dust on that shelf.

00:16:18.100 Yeah, the baby can't reach that.

00:16:19.340 Well, there was this construction.

00:16:21.460 That was almost a year ago, hon.

00:16:23.400 What construction?

00:16:24.060 There was this dust.

00:16:26.040 How much dust?

00:16:27.520 Andy, show him your photos.

00:16:29.080 Shannon, can I see them?

00:16:31.960 There was this construction in the front half of the store space on the ground level,

00:16:35.760 and it filled our apartment with dust.

00:16:38.440 But they cleaned it.

00:16:40.660 But as soon as John saw the first dust photo of the table, he knew.

00:16:45.200 Oh.

00:16:45.760 Andy kept showing him dust photo after photo.

00:16:48.920 The toaster.

00:16:50.620 This is how your son got sick.

00:16:53.640 The piano.

00:16:55.720 How?

00:16:56.360 Well, they cleaned several times, sent cleaning crews.

00:17:00.280 And then Andy clicked on the photo of the rug.

00:17:04.000 Lead doesn't come out of fabrics.

00:17:05.940 But our daughter didn't test positive for lead.

00:17:08.340 He's crawling on the rug and putting his hands in his mouth, 0.94

00:17:11.440 and she's older and doesn't do that.

00:17:12.840 Plus, a baby his age will absorb lead at a much higher rate than an older child.

00:17:16.960 The younger they are, the more vulnerable they are.

00:17:18.880 But why are his levels so much higher a month later?

00:17:21.420 I don't know. We have to figure that out.

00:17:23.140 Andy clicked on the toy shelf.

00:17:25.660 I took some toys out of storage, out of our crawl space.

00:17:29.340 The piano octopus.

00:17:31.200 Alice loved this.

00:17:32.220 I wanted to save it for him.

00:17:33.720 Only the one toy?

00:17:34.920 No, there was a whole box.

00:17:36.900 He loves the horse blanket.

00:17:38.680 I washed them.

00:17:39.460 The cleaning crew washed them too.

00:17:41.340 Jane and John looked at each other.

00:17:43.120 The heaviness hung in the air.

00:17:45.780 They knew.

00:17:46.600 They knew they had to tell me that I was unknowingly poisoning my son.

00:17:51.280 A regular cleaning crew is not going to get the lead out.

00:17:54.860 The toys went through the washing machine.

00:17:57.200 The monkey.

00:17:57.860 You have to throw out everything fabric.

00:18:00.580 You didn't know.

00:18:01.760 The dust on the ledge.

00:18:02.980 Is from the construction site?

00:18:04.460 That is pretty high up.

00:18:05.500 I can't imagine it's been cleaned.

00:18:07.140 I don't think anyone cleaned it.

00:18:08.700 Should we move?

00:18:09.720 The EPA is cleaning your apartment because we found the elevated levels.

00:18:13.960 This is not the freebie I wanted.

00:18:16.300 Dust, any debris outside of a construction site, is illegal.

00:18:21.020 Everyone told us there was nothing we could do.

00:18:23.340 The contractor is licensed. He knows.

00:18:25.640 Any building built before 1978 has lead in the walls.

00:18:28.620 Do you have any proof?

00:18:29.640 There's a small area in the crawl space that the cleaning crew never got to.

00:18:33.420 We can test that.

00:18:34.420 We had the section of dust tested and the results came back.

00:18:38.160 660 micrograms of lead.

00:18:40.800 Anything else?

00:18:41.820 The second half of the store space is being demoed right now.

00:18:44.900 Can I see?

00:18:45.500 Andy grabs his camera.

00:18:46.720 There's dust in the stairwells and the basement.

00:18:49.100 This dust has lead in it.

00:18:50.340 He really is a bloodhound.

00:18:51.940 Oh yeah.

00:18:52.440 We peered around the door. The reality hit all of us. The peeling paint and dilapidated pre-war

00:18:58.800 columns, layers and layers of paint going back to the 1920s. This should have been abated for lead.

00:19:06.520 Report this to 311. The Department of Buildings will shut down this site. That's all we had to

00:19:10.800 do. All those months, all those letters. Emails, phone calls. Is call 311? And the construction

00:19:17.500 site would have been shut down. You didn't know. But they knew. John and Jane risked their jobs,

00:19:24.300 their livelihoods, to save my son. I am forever grateful. There are angels in this world,

00:19:32.460 real, living, breathing angels that spread their wings and fly steadfast into the fire.

00:19:40.200 And I couldn't even write our angels a thank you email. I went into sheer panic mode. Andy,

00:19:46.120 we have to move. Shannon, where? Anywhere. All these months, we begged for someone to stop the

00:19:52.620 dust infestation. Maybe the contractor or the management company didn't want to deal with the

00:19:57.220 Department of Buildings. I mean, who does? But sometimes you have to. Maybe there are rules and

00:20:03.760 laws for this very purpose. The amount of permits that you need to change anything in your apartment

00:20:08.700 in New York City, including a light bulb, is obscene. But then something like this happens to

00:20:14.640 you, and you get it. That law is there because someone at some point got hurt. We're in so much

00:20:22.020 debt, Shannon. We can't rent something and pay for this place, and we can't sell this place now. The

00:20:25.780 housing market just crashed. I'm taking the kids to my parents. EPA's cleaning our apartment this

00:20:30.160 week. Within days, the EPA came to clean our apartment, and that is when the depth of the

00:20:36.740 deception really hit me. The machinery involved in a proper cleanup, the equipment that was brought

00:20:42.820 into our apartment, a full ventilation system. Oh, there was something that looked like a mini

00:20:48.340 Zamboni that would soak anything fabric. The water would cascade through circulating a special

00:20:55.280 cleaner, utilizing the sheer force of the water to cleanse the fabric. In that moment, I really

00:21:01.700 realized the power of government, my government, grateful for this country, what by the people

00:21:08.940 and for the people can do for its citizens. There was this machine that washed the walls

00:21:15.320 inch by inch. The crew was punctilious. I didn't know if they knew about Cooper and were being

00:21:21.360 extra thorough or if this is just how good at their job they really were. So good, I almost

00:21:27.920 felt safe. Almost. But the monster that lived in the walls was always there, haunting me,

00:21:36.920 reminding me

00:21:39.200 that my son got hurt

00:21:41.800 and I didn't stop it.

00:21:47.820 This all happened so quickly

00:21:49.340 from the time Cooper was diagnosed

00:21:50.940 to when his levels went up

00:21:52.100 to the cleaning of the apartment

00:21:53.240 was a matter of just weeks.

00:21:56.060 A little over a month.

00:21:57.460 Meanwhile, I jumped on the internet

00:21:59.180 and looked up ways on how to flush out the lead.

00:22:01.880 Three weeks after his level went up to 19,

00:22:04.480 we had a clean apartment,

00:22:05.440 He was on supplements to remove the lead.

00:22:08.180 So Dr. Nicky did another lead test to make sure he was heading in the right direction.

00:22:13.180 I held my breath.

00:22:15.060 12.

00:22:15.900 See? He's getting better.

00:22:18.300 But every day, every hour, he was getting worse, regressing further and further inside his brain.

00:22:27.140 The poison that was coursing through his veins was wreaking havoc on his nervous system.

00:22:32.700 The damage was being done.

00:22:35.440 I knew I was running out of time.

00:23:05.440 work.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - July 27, 2025

Sunday Nice Things： LEAD

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