Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - April 14, 2024


Sunday Nice Things: LORENZA

Topics
The Great Bookstagram Revolution with Jordy's Book Club Trad Dads and Dad Guilt

Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

143.73

Word count

5,382

Sentence count

443

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

11

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.980 Hello, hello, hello. Today's Sunday Nice Things is the second episode of the Sicilian Inheritance
00:00:09.380 True Crime Podcast. I love this so much. I do. And a lot of you are asking me if you
00:00:18.220 should finish the book before starting the podcast, if you should listen to the podcast
00:00:21.940 first. And I'm here to tell you, this is a no-spoiler zone. The podcast tells the true
00:00:29.320 story behind the book that I created, the true murder of my great-great-grandmother Lorenza
00:00:35.620 Marsala. But it's not the same as the fictional story that I've created in The Sicilian Inheritance.
00:00:41.400 It's totally different. It's me setting out to solve this crazy Sicilian murder with my three
00:00:48.500 children under the age of six and my very reluctant husband. It's an adventure through Sicily,
00:00:56.140 the good the bad and the ugly i mean you're gonna feel transported to the island and i keep telling
00:01:02.500 people i'm like it's only murders in the building meets white lotus meets finding your roots and a
00:01:10.280 little bit of bluey because i got my kids with me while i'm trying to solve this murder uh it's fun
00:01:17.000 it's immersive we had a really great production company that spent a shit ton of money on it
00:01:21.960 And you know what makes a podcast sound good? Money. It really does. It is amazing how good
00:01:29.920 money can make a podcast sound. I'm just gonna say it. This episode is called Lorenza. Lorenza
00:01:38.100 was the name of my great-great-grandmother who was murdered back in Sicily. I love this name so
00:01:43.580 much. I love it enough that I was like, oh my god, maybe we should have a fourth baby and name it
00:01:48.780 Lorenza. But then I remembered that we can't because Nick is snipped and that means I would
00:01:54.980 have to go like find a hot young husband. And like, I mean, it seems like a lot of work. So
00:02:00.320 we're not going to have a baby Lorenza. We're not. We're not. Just a little intro into this episode.
00:02:06.660 You know, my family has been playing a hundred year long game of telephone about the murder of
00:02:12.540 Lorenza Marsala. So many of my family members have gone back to Sicily to try to discover the truth
00:02:18.720 including my dad before he passed away and many of them have been shut down by both the authorities
00:02:26.520 and seemingly supernatural forces. And so in this episode we pack our bags and we go to Sicily
00:02:36.700 and we start trying to solve this murder and it's gonzo. It's a little ridiculous and it is a lot 0.85
00:02:43.280 of fun. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it. If you like it there's now three episodes 0.82
00:02:48.260 in the Sicilian Inheritance podcast feed.
00:02:51.780 You can go binge them.
00:02:53.380 We also made an olive oil,
00:02:55.260 a Sicilian Inheritance olive oil.
00:02:57.660 Is that crazy?
00:02:58.900 Is that, I mean, it's delicious.
00:03:00.240 It is wonderful.
00:03:01.720 But because we're, we're, we do all the things.
00:03:04.400 We are women and we do all of the things.
00:03:06.800 If you haven't ordered your copy of the book yet,
00:03:09.640 The Sicilian Inheritance,
00:03:11.140 it is selling like hotcakes.
00:03:14.060 I think it has been sold out of a lot of independent bookstores.
00:03:16.760 If it's sold out of yours,
00:03:18.260 please ask them to reorder. We were out of stock on Amazon, but it is coming back.
00:03:25.300 Make sure to get your orders in now because we are doing a reprinting and I want to make sure
00:03:31.000 that it is in all of your hands. And as many of you know, I'm still giving away the Substack for
00:03:38.420 free for two more days when you order the Sicilian Inheritance book. Just email me or DM me the
00:03:46.060 receipt and and you'll get the substack you'll get like all of the behind the scenes things from
00:03:52.340 this true crime podcast we're going to be posting a lot of the documents online and yeah this is
00:03:58.580 this is just a a fun wacky murder mystery adventure that i think you are gonna love
00:04:06.000 and i'm so excited to share it with you
00:04:16.060 I actually have no idea what's going to happen when we get there.
00:04:22.900 I know, and we've got to be cool with it.
00:04:25.660 I think we have to prepare ourselves to go with the flow.
00:04:30.620 I know, and we have to be cool with it.
00:04:32.140 In a way that we don't usually go with the flow.
00:04:37.080 I've been to Sicily many times.
00:04:39.820 And I can tell you that traveling in Sicily is not easy.
00:04:43.640 It's not like traveling in the rest of Europe.
00:04:46.060 It is often something of a comedy of errors.
00:04:50.080 So even before we got here, our accommodations kept getting messed up,
00:04:53.520 and by messed up, I mean one hotel just didn't exist.
00:04:56.740 Our guide was constantly confusing the day we were going to meet,
00:04:59.600 and no one could tell me if our rental car had car seats.
00:05:03.480 You ready for your day?
00:05:05.600 Uh, no.
00:05:07.900 I'd rolled my eyes when my Uncle Jimmy said that he was scared
00:05:11.000 I might reopen a family vendetta a hundred years later.
00:05:16.060 It seemed far-fetched.
00:05:17.600 You always have to be careful when you're digging up,
00:05:19.660 when you're sifting through the ashes, let's say.
00:05:22.140 But I am taking my kids, and you can never be too sure,
00:05:25.180 so I wanted to talk to an expert in these things.
00:05:27.800 You know, you may end up stumbling upon something
00:05:29.720 that someone doesn't want you to find out about.
00:05:31.780 I'm not trying to scare you.
00:05:32.740 I just think you just have to be vigilant.
00:05:34.680 That's Barbie Latza Nadeau.
00:05:36.800 Barbie's been reporting on organized crime in Italy for decades.
00:05:40.700 She's covered the mafia, the Camorra.
00:05:42.980 She's written books about everything
00:05:44.580 from the mafia trafficking women from Nigeria
00:05:46.960 and about the role of women in the mob.
00:05:49.780 And she made the things that I'd written off
00:05:51.880 as Italian-American mafia fantasies
00:05:54.420 sound very, very real.
00:05:57.540 Is there still a danger in digging up
00:05:59.840 these kinds of old stories?
00:06:01.320 And should I be concerned?
00:06:02.940 Or is it ancient history?
00:06:04.720 You always have to be concerned
00:06:06.920 because the mafia still exists
00:06:10.300 and murder still happens.
00:06:12.160 So you always have to be concerned. 0.98
00:06:13.240 I remember when I was doing the book on the Nigerian sex-trafficked women and the Kimura
00:06:17.580 and I was staying in this little place with these nuns who were trying to save these women off the
00:06:22.560 street and my tires got slashed and so I went to the police and I said I'm a journalist I'm working
00:06:27.900 on the story and they said well you're lucky your brake line wasn't cut and I said oh okay and they're
00:06:35.220 like this is just a warning so next time don't always come in the same car that seems like such
00:06:39.820 almost paranoia but you have to be vigilant you just have to be vigilant one of the things I
00:06:45.220 always think that's so important about covering organized crime is just is not romanticizing it
00:06:50.960 in your head like I've said my dad was all about romanticizing the mob so some part of me hadn't
00:07:04.100 really taken it seriously. Mafia, schmafia. Like, surely if Lorenzo was killed by the mob, 0.58
00:07:12.600 that wouldn't matter today. But just as I started picturing everything that could go wrong,
00:07:18.980 Barbie tempered my worry. I think something so old and that relates to your own family,
00:07:24.400 you probably have a certain level of protection in the sense that you are trying to find out
00:07:28.820 something about your family. You're not trying to find something about someone else's family.
00:07:32.860 And so that protects you to some extent.
00:07:35.680 And then she said something that convinced me I needed to make this trip.
00:07:41.180 Something that convinced me that if I was going to find some answers, I needed to be on the ground digging through these files.
00:07:48.760 It's just not a digital place.
00:07:50.960 So there's still like a folder somewhere about the murder of your grandmother or great-grandmother, for sure.
00:07:55.940 It's like in a file cabinet in some courthouse.
00:07:59.060 And so you're going to have to figure out where that is, and then you can get it.
00:08:03.640 I mean, they're really helpful once you figure out what you need.
00:08:08.080 So off we went.
00:08:12.440 I'm Jo Piazza.
00:08:14.220 From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, this is The Sicilian Inheritance.
00:08:20.240 Chapter 2, Summer Vacation.
00:08:25.820 Do you need our passports?
00:08:26.940 Yes.
00:08:27.280 So one day in June last year, we packed eight bags, a stroller, three kids, and we hopped
00:08:39.340 on a plane to Palermo.
00:08:41.880 As we got closer, I got so excited.
00:08:44.420 My heart was pounding faster, I was a little sweaty.
00:08:48.080 I grabbed the kids' hands and squeezed them because it felt like we were getting closer
00:08:53.060 to something.
00:09:04.240 From above, the boot of Italy looks like it's kicking Sicily out into the Mediterranean
00:09:08.660 Sea.
00:09:09.740 The sunburnt red roofs of Palermo trickle down white, craggy cliffs into the turquoise
00:09:14.800 ocean.
00:09:15.760 It just might be the most beautiful place that you've ever seen from above.
00:09:23.060 We land at Falcone-Borsolino Airport,
00:09:25.740 named after Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsolino,
00:09:29.260 two judges who went after the mafia and were murdered for it.
00:09:33.480 Fitting.
00:09:36.020 The Palermo Airport is madness.
00:09:38.600 It is chaos. It's not even organized chaos.
00:09:40.640 It is just people everywhere screaming in your face.
00:09:46.020 We rent a car.
00:09:47.500 We'd asked for car seats, but all of them seemed to be broken
00:09:50.220 in some different, unfixable way.
00:09:53.060 We finally found a couple of them,
00:09:54.560 literally tossed behind the rental car office.
00:09:58.560 We start driving west.
00:10:00.200 Most tourists go east to Taramina.
00:10:03.040 That's where White Lotus was filmed.
00:10:05.340 We're going the other way,
00:10:06.740 into what I like to call the real Sicily on the west coast.
00:10:12.840 The highway is as chaotic as the airport.
00:10:15.220 There are no rules on this highway.
00:10:17.560 Mopeds and smart cars weave in and out of lanes
00:10:20.160 like they're playing Frogger.
00:10:22.120 But it's worth it, because when we get to the seaside town of Scapello, it's like something out of a movie set.
00:10:28.520 We're in a hotel set high on a cliff overlooking the ocean.
00:10:32.080 There's a picturesque piazza with very good-looking people sipping espresso and wine.
00:10:37.480 There are four different gelato shops.
00:10:41.700 It would be idyllic.
00:10:45.180 Except...
00:10:46.060 So, this is how it is, ladies and gentlemen.
00:10:56.760 For the first couple of nights, we're going to be staying in this small town.
00:11:00.280 My whole family and my dear friend slash producer Kate.
00:11:03.480 Sleep okay?
00:11:04.560 No.
00:11:06.200 No, not at all.
00:11:08.820 Love it. 1.00
00:11:09.540 My plan is to ditch my kids with Nick and an Italian babysitter and travel to Caltabalota. 0.98
00:11:16.060 the village where lorenza lived and died bye charlie bye guys away from you 0.97
00:11:26.780 oh my gosh look at this virgin mary shrine by the sea the scenery in sicily quickly switches
00:11:32.300 between insanely gorgeous and completely busted out and vaguely concerning you're gonna get perfect
00:11:38.860 sea views with an ancient ruin peeking over a dusky mountainside speckled with olive groves
00:11:44.940 right next to a burnt-down construction site filled with trash-eating sheep.
00:11:49.260 But as we drive, I try to focus on the beautiful bits.
00:11:52.140 This coastline is so pretty.
00:11:54.940 Oh, it's so cute.
00:11:56.300 Isn't it cute? I love Sicily. I'm constantly enchanted by Sicily.
00:12:00.940 And this is what I was thinking at 3 in the morning when I was
00:12:04.060 regretting my marriage and my children and everything about my life.
00:12:07.500 life, you forget, and I knew this as a travel journalist, travel is supposed to be hard.
00:12:15.820 And that's why it's good for us.
00:12:17.220 And that's why it's good for our souls.
00:12:20.620 Writers have been visiting Sicily forever and waxing poetic about it.
00:12:24.280 Goethe said, without Sicily, Italy creates no image on the soul.
00:12:29.560 Here is the key to everything.
00:12:32.180 I have Lorenza's death certificate,
00:12:36.620 which does not have a cause of death on it.
00:12:39.920 Would it typically have one?
00:12:41.380 I don't know.
00:12:42.220 That's what I want to ask, right?
00:12:46.920 Or what other records do they have in the town
00:12:48.940 that they can give us?
00:12:50.600 And then we'll check, we'll go to the church
00:12:52.560 and we'll check the graveyard.
00:12:53.840 I don't even know if she has a grave.
00:12:55.960 First, we have to meet our guide, Ciro Grillo,
00:12:59.400 our man in Sicily.
00:13:00.740 Ciao!
00:13:02.180 When my dad started making these heritage trips over 20 years ago, he got connected with Chiro.
00:13:11.640 I think it was probably on Facebook. Chiro doesn't remember.
00:13:15.760 Every time my dad came back, he'd hire Chiro to take him around.
00:13:19.480 He'd be a guide, a translator, a driver, I'm pretty sure a drinking buddy.
00:13:24.560 Sicily was different 20 years ago. Tourism has really taken off since then.
00:13:28.400 And while you should probably still hire a translator and a guide, back then, you really needed a guy.
00:13:35.480 So Chiro became our guy.
00:13:37.180 He also visited my dad in the U.S.
00:13:39.020 He brought his son over for a college tour.
00:13:41.620 My dad liked to call Chiro his cugino, his cousin, even though we are not at all related.
00:13:47.880 You took cousin Tony's family around, too.
00:13:50.720 And Maggie had her wedding.
00:13:52.600 The lawyer, Tony.
00:13:53.840 He was not here last year.
00:13:55.440 Ciro has also done this trip with pretty much everyone else in my extended family who's come here.
00:14:00.900 Ciro, where are you from?
00:14:03.840 I was born in a small town in the province of Palermo, about one hour, called Ventimiglia di Sicilia. Nice place.
00:14:15.900 Taking around Americans obsessed with their Sicilian roots is kind of Ciro's whole thing these days.
00:14:20.820 I work always in the tourist business.
00:14:23.700 The main focus from America and from Sicily is going to visit the town of the ancestors.
00:14:31.460 And then, of course, all the other classic Palermo, Cefalu, Tormina.
00:14:39.340 All the Sicilian, we have some relatives in the U.S.
00:14:42.880 So there are really many, many, many.
00:14:45.560 Francinatra, Francapra, Ford Coppola, they are all from Sicily.
00:14:50.960 A lot of U.S. tourists make a pilgrimage to the epitome of Italian-americanness.
00:14:57.440 The Godfather.
00:14:58.440 So the movie now is 50 years old.
00:15:01.480 Actually, spoiler, Corleone the town is not that much to look at.
00:15:06.460 That's sort of why Francis Ford Coppola shot most of the movie in other parts of the island.
00:15:11.800 What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully?
00:15:14.780 My dad was less into visiting Corleone, despite his love for The Godfather.
00:15:20.960 He just wanted to see where his people came from.
00:15:24.420 I'm not even sure if he ever really learned about the true mafia history in Cotabalota.
00:15:31.700 What I've learned is that about 100 years ago, the fascist Cesar Mori was on a campaign to rid Sicily of both bandits and the mafia,
00:15:41.800 both of which were apparently very plentiful at the time.
00:15:46.480 In 1916, the same year that Lorenzo was killed,
00:15:50.700 Cesar Mori took aim on the tiny town of Caltabalota.
00:15:54.680 He had shootouts with the bandits who were holed up in caves
00:15:57.760 and in the busy square in the center of town.
00:16:00.940 The bandits ended up flying this large black flag
00:16:04.080 at the highest peak in Caltabalota,
00:16:06.480 right before Mori drove over 300 of them out of town.
00:16:11.240 And again, the same year that Lorenzo was killed.
00:16:15.480 Your father, remember, he talked to me about the story, but he didn't know too much.
00:16:23.480 No, he didn't know too much.
00:16:25.480 That's what—so I'm trying to find out more.
00:16:28.480 I have—
00:16:29.480 What do you remember, Chiro, about the story?
00:16:32.480 Something about the—what's the grandmother?
00:16:36.480 My great-great-grandmother, Lorenza.
00:16:39.480 Great-great-grandmother.
00:16:40.480 My family's prevailing theory of Lorenza's death has always been that she was killed over a land dispute, that the so-called Black Hand murdered her for her property, or maybe, maybe that she sold some land and was killed over the money.
00:16:57.600 But through his trips, my dad arrived at an alternate theory.
00:17:01.680 And I don't know exactly what he found out or how,
00:17:06.340 but he came back from Sicily convinced that it might not have been about the land.
00:17:13.020 That the murder actually had to do with Lorenza being a healer of some kind.
00:17:19.320 And she was like, you know, in the past, in this small village,
00:17:25.260 There were some women doing, I don't know, in English their name.
00:17:33.280 But, you know, it was a mix between magic, ritual, but also practical things that really can help, especially babies. 0.92
00:17:44.460 Like a midwife.
00:17:45.580 Si, like a midwife.
00:17:47.580 My dad used the words witch and healer almost interchangeably.
00:17:51.820 Now, witch is a very particular word, and it has been used all over the world to cut down women who do things to help other women.
00:18:02.900 And of course, calling a woman a witch has been an age-old excuse to murder her.
00:18:08.320 In Sicily, there's another word, strega, which encompasses healer, apothecary, midwife, some other quote-unquote witchy things.
00:18:19.360 Because let's not forget, organized health care is a rather modern luxury. 0.50
00:18:25.580 In rural areas, like most of Sicily, these women were often the health care providers. 0.91
00:18:32.000 I remember when I was a kid, now I am 66.
00:18:36.500 I remember when I was maybe four or five, but I mean, many, many years ago.
00:18:41.920 My mother, a couple of times, she sent to me, to one of these old women in my town.
00:18:50.380 And they do, for example, something if you had a stomachache, putting a glass with some olive oil inside, a candle, and then massage with some oil.
00:19:07.780 I don't remember.
00:19:08.580 And sometimes it worked.
00:19:12.800 They are in some place still now, but of course, most of the people, they don't use anymore.
00:19:18.780 So she was one of those?
00:19:21.400 Si, this was a reminder.
00:19:23.040 But something happened, maybe with the baby that she was taking care of.
00:19:32.080 Like the family was upset that the child died?
00:19:34.560 Yeah.
00:19:34.800 my dad somehow came to believe that something had happened to a child in lorenza's care
00:19:41.520 and maybe that's why she was killed in revenge i don't remember if he say that probably died
00:19:49.920 this baby and and so probably then she had some trouble but really i don't remember more than
00:19:58.720 that. So this is Lorenzo. Oh. Yeah. She's severe. I like it. She's severe, right? She, the eyes and the face looks really like a wizard. I think a wizard, right? I mean, I wouldn't mess with her. No. Those cheekbones are to die for. Those cheekbones are to die for. How old do you think she is there, Jo? I mean, let's figure
00:20:28.700 out how old she was when she died. 54. So I bet she's in her 40s there, late 40s. Not that much
00:20:36.600 older than me. I'm 42. 42? I'm 42. I think people looked a lot older back then. It's hard living.
00:20:47.840 Despite spending all that time with my dad, Chiro is not at all bought into this mystery.
00:20:54.520 He doesn't seem to think that Lorenzo was murdered at all.
00:20:58.220 Part of the story is that she was murdered here
00:21:01.280 and that it might have been the mafia.
00:21:06.220 But I don't know how true that is
00:21:08.680 or if Americans just like to talk about the mafia.
00:21:10.860 You know, really, the mafia killed a woman is very unusual.
00:21:18.040 I never read about that.
00:21:19.420 But it could be more if she really was connected with some problem about some baby or something.
00:21:29.800 But the mafia usually, they don't go to kill normal people.
00:21:35.840 Right.
00:21:36.580 The other theory, there's all these theories.
00:21:38.780 Everyone has a different story, is that she was killed to get money for her land.
00:21:46.480 Could be.
00:21:46.900 Maybe it's more trustable, this one.
00:21:49.420 more after the break
00:21:53.020 you hear that do you hear that that's the gentle lapping of the mediterranean sea
00:22:12.080 on the fine golden sand by the magic of podcasting you can almost feel the heat of the sun
00:22:18.280 the cool of the water, and the smell of the orange blossoms.
00:22:22.120 And with a few short clicks, you can taste it too,
00:22:26.120 because we have actually imported the finest Sicilian olive oil inspired by this very podcast.
00:22:31.900 We've partnered with Philadelphia's own Cardenas Gourmet Foods
00:22:35.540 to bring you the Sicilian Inheritance Olive Oil,
00:22:39.600 a flavor journey from the volcanic soil of ancient groves
00:22:43.300 through special terroir that family secrets and inherited stories provide. It's got a taste of
00:22:50.380 fresh off the vine tomatoes and a hint of almonds. You can get your own bottle today at Cardenas
00:22:56.620 Taproom. Check the show notes for the link and all the details to buy. It's not only an incredible
00:23:02.740 olive oil, but it will completely transport you to the beautiful and sometimes dangerous
00:23:09.380 island of sicily so please do check out the show notes now and thank you also enjoy with something
00:23:17.580 delicious all i knew was like dad right being like she was murdered for the money and because 1.00
00:23:33.580 she was a witch. That's all he told me. Your father had his story that she was like the witch
00:23:40.020 doctor, but he knew that the money was stolen. Yeah, he knew the money was stolen. And then
00:23:44.600 when he went to Sicily and started investigating it, he's like, she was murdered because she was 0.90
00:23:48.680 a witch. My dad's witch theory hadn't come out of nowhere. When I called my other relatives,
00:23:53.700 some of them had heard it too. Okay, this is what I know. It was at Tony's cabin,
00:23:59.660 a family reunion, and Aunt Diana, she told us that our great-grandmother was a faith healer,
00:24:09.860 a hand, what do they call, where you put the hands on someone and she could heal people.
00:24:14.600 Now, your father said that she killed the mayor's son or daughter or whatever with her stuff,
00:24:20.780 and that's why they killed her, period.
00:24:22.040 His daughter died, and he took it out on my great-grandmother and killed her, murdered her.
00:24:31.340 Maybe that's true, but we were told she was killed for the money from the sale of the farm.
00:24:38.600 Most were pretty skeptical, though.
00:24:40.180 Jimmy mentioned you were thinking of doing that.
00:24:42.360 I don't like the word witch.
00:24:44.180 The thing about both of these theories is that we've got no proof.
00:24:48.260 No proof of the land sale, no proof of the stolen money,
00:24:52.360 no proof that Lorenza was a midwife or, God forbid, a Strega.
00:24:58.420 We've just got her death certificate, which I found on Ancestry.com,
00:25:03.740 and that doesn't list a cause of death. 1.00
00:25:06.140 It's funny because the Piazzas have made trekking to Caltabalota 0.99
00:25:09.500 and trying to find family documents a sort of rite of passage, 0.99
00:25:14.840 But it seems like all of them had a very difficult, or I should probably say weird time, getting any more info about Lorenza, even when they weren't trying to solve her murder.
00:25:30.440 When we were there and I was asking somebody about her, and they just looked at me and they kept saying, morte, morte, no.
00:25:40.380 And they're like, they shut it down.
00:25:41.660 They wouldn't talk.
00:25:42.680 Really?
00:25:43.660 Mm-hmm.
00:25:44.040 You just said her name. You're like Lorenzo, Marsala, Piazza.
00:25:48.080 And they were like morte, morte, morte.
00:25:51.620 Interesting.
00:25:53.060 My Aunt Gail and Uncle Jimmy, they took a trip a few years ago in which they tried to see the old archives.
00:25:58.420 We went right to the business office. It's such a tiny little, you know, village on the top of the mountain.
00:26:04.740 And the clerk was there and we asked if we could see the history book.
00:26:10.620 It's not a history book, but there are these massive physical books that most small towns in Italy keep, and they list things like births and deaths, and they go back hundreds of years.
00:26:23.360 And so the guy, the clerk, brought it out, and we went flipping through this thing. It was huge. And, you know, crinkly paper, so old. And we were going through the book, and then the mayor of the town came in.
00:26:38.980 The mayor came in, and he was a son of a bitch. 1.00
00:26:42.420 He found out what we were doing. 1.00
00:26:44.240 He slammed the goddamn book, it closed, and started yelling at the clerk. 0.99
00:26:50.320 And so we obviously thought we weren't too welcome. 0.99
00:26:54.640 So what you're saying is I have to get to that book.
00:26:58.120 So I have my work cut out for me, trying to get access to these record books.
00:27:04.540 Oh, is that Caltapoletta ahead of us?
00:27:06.280 Look, all, see, I think that's the rock.
00:27:11.400 All these are olive trees from behind the valley.
00:27:15.620 Okay, just a big fin of a rock.
00:27:18.360 Oh, yeah.
00:27:19.040 I think, I'll travel a lot.
00:27:20.840 So it's high up in the mountains.
00:27:22.700 Oh, yeah.
00:27:23.840 After about two hours in the car,
00:27:25.580 Caltebelota finally comes into view.
00:27:28.060 It's the only town for miles,
00:27:30.380 a tiny village spilling down from the top of a single mountain
00:27:33.780 rising above the golden brown hills.
00:27:37.000 They're terraced with olive trees.
00:27:39.780 It's so high up and has such a good vantage point over the ocean.
00:27:43.940 The locals claim you can see all the way to Africa on a clear day.
00:27:47.440 This was a natural place for many, many conquerors of Sicily
00:27:50.800 to build their forts and castles.
00:27:53.120 This town is spectacular every time I come here.
00:27:56.220 I mean, it's carved into the side of the mountain.
00:28:02.240 Yeah, yeah.
00:28:02.980 Up close, Cal Tabalota really is a maze of teeny tiny streets that most cars won't be able to
00:28:19.600 fit down. I remember driving up here with my mom and dad in their tank of a rental car because
00:28:25.420 neither of my parents could drive stick and they destroyed, destroyed the exterior of that thing
00:28:31.780 banging into the stone walls of the town.
00:28:41.640 We make our way to the commune.
00:28:46.360 That's the town's municipal office
00:28:48.220 where Ciro has made us an appointment
00:28:50.260 to go through the records.
00:28:52.300 These records are apparently the same history book
00:28:55.320 that got slammed in front of Aunt Gail and Uncle Jim.
00:28:59.520 And I'm not going to lie,
00:29:00.980 I'm a little worried.
00:29:02.140 We might be told to get the hell out, too.
00:29:04.140 There's a book for everything.
00:29:06.420 And look, there's just books.
00:29:09.440 There's a book for every year.
00:29:11.820 It's a handwritten list of everyone who died.
00:29:20.820 We're standing in the open foyer of the commune.
00:29:24.060 Me, Kate, our translator.
00:29:26.740 The building itself outside is gorgeous.
00:29:30.080 It's like a beau arts fantasy.
00:29:32.400 On the inside, it has that could-be-anywhere-in-the-world bureaucratic look.
00:29:39.000 You could be at the DMV, okay?
00:29:41.020 Or even more boring than the DMV.
00:29:43.880 It's sort of a town hall, but also the registrar for the municipality.
00:29:49.060 So it's got records dating back hundreds of years.
00:29:52.380 It has records for everyone in the area, truly from birth to death, going back centuries.
00:29:59.380 all of them handwritten.
00:30:01.720 The Romans, of course, were very well known
00:30:04.420 for keeping lots and lots of written records.
00:30:07.420 And, well, the fascists weren't so bad at it either.
00:30:12.240 I mean, the fact that we were just able to, like, walk into City Hall.
00:30:17.420 There's just one dude here.
00:30:19.860 We hand him the death certificate, and now he's back there.
00:30:23.300 We can see into this back room where the books are kept,
00:30:26.160 and it's lined floor to ceiling with metal cabinets
00:30:29.540 stacked with enormous fabric-covered books.
00:30:33.700 I ask our translator what they are.
00:30:35.300 Is this the history book?
00:30:36.960 And he explains that one of the shelves has the big book of death.
00:30:43.880 And there's one of these big books of death for every single year.
00:30:49.620 So we asked the town administrator, Senor Garrado,
00:30:53.600 through the translator, of course, I can't do this,
00:30:56.160 we asked to see the records pertaining to all deaths in 1916,
00:31:00.960 to see if there's actually a record for Lorenzo Marsala.
00:31:04.560 He's back there.
00:31:06.000 He's got the book, he's got the book.
00:31:08.640 Should we ask?
00:31:09.600 Oh, oh, can we ask if we can go back and see the book?
00:31:14.320 Can we go back here?
00:31:16.080 Are we allowed?
00:31:17.280 The book?
00:31:17.920 Yeah, can we see it?
00:31:26.160 So the book describes how everyone in town died?
00:31:30.640 Yes. Not how, when, when it died.
00:31:33.560 When they died.
00:31:34.280 When they died.
00:31:34.820 Can she look at him?
00:31:36.400 No, he said because of privacy.
00:31:38.000 He's bringing the book.
00:31:38.760 Oh, he's bringing the book. He's bringing the book.
00:31:40.900 Signor Grado pages through the book. He looks very disinterested. He's got that same look of every bureaucratic official since the beginning of time.
00:31:50.600 So this book goes from when to when, what date?
00:31:56.160 Most of us in the room do not speak Italian,
00:32:01.060 and so we are not sure what's happening at first.
00:32:04.740 Grotto's flipping through the beginning of the book,
00:32:06.580 going back and forth with our translator.
00:32:09.180 Yeah, I asked about the cause of death.
00:32:13.040 In the first time he said that he could have died at home,
00:32:16.300 but then he realized that he, it's Lorenzo, sorry, she,
00:32:21.720 she should have died in the hospital
00:32:23.640 because there's another part
00:32:26.480 that says to be, to be means
00:32:28.320 when it's just one
00:32:30.100 means that
00:32:30.920 she was dead at home.
00:32:34.420 She died at the age of 54.
00:32:41.000 That's young.
00:32:42.400 Yeah, young.
00:32:44.240 Especially in small towns.
00:32:45.600 People live in average
00:32:47.120 for 85, 90 years.
00:32:49.340 Really?
00:32:50.160 Wow.
00:32:51.500 So does he think he has more records or no?
00:32:55.760 Yes, he's double-checking whether he has more records or no.
00:32:59.620 No luck.
00:33:01.320 No Lorenzo.
00:33:03.020 He hasn't been able to find her death record.
00:33:05.940 We're trying to piece together their conversation
00:33:07.840 using my very, very bad Italian.
00:33:12.520 And then, then we grasp
00:33:14.860 that he was looking in Section A of the book,
00:33:18.300 Serie A of the book. And there's two parts to this book. And all we know now is that
00:33:24.700 Lorenzo wasn't in the first part. So what does that mean? What is the second part of the book?
00:33:30.700 There are documents that report that says the real cause of the death.
00:33:39.740 So what is he telling us?
00:33:54.160 I didn't realize this at the time, but in that last bit, our translator Itore was just
00:34:00.320 speculating with Signor Grotto about how neither of them think this was a murder and that I am 0.80
00:34:05.860 just some crazy American with a crazy idea about my crazy family. They are just humoring us right 0.92
00:34:12.480 now. And to be honest, I'm starting to doubt it too. She's not even in the book of death. Maybe
00:34:17.920 my family has never found anything here because there is nothing to find. And maybe I've dragged
00:34:24.740 my husband, my children, and Kate across an ocean on a wild goose chase for nothing.
00:34:31.800 But then, Signor Grotto flips to the back of the book.
00:34:44.840 Okay, she didn't die at home.
00:34:47.960 The cause were maybe too an accident, because there's no...
00:34:52.980 Turns out that the Book of Death has two sections,
00:34:56.240 Syria A and Syria B.
00:34:58.600 Grotto and our translator,
00:34:59.680 because they did not believe that this was a murder, only looked in Section A. Section A is
00:35:07.040 for deaths by natural causes, deaths that happened in the home, deaths that were expected. Section B,
00:35:16.240 Serie B, is for deaths by unnatural causes, like an accident or a murder.
00:35:24.500 And when Grotto flips to the section of unnatural deaths,
00:35:30.620 February 26, 1916.
00:35:34.740 Don't un-range.
00:35:35.720 See, see, see, wow.
00:35:41.540 Lorenzo Marsala, there's her name right there.
00:35:46.300 That's next time on The Sicilian Inheritance.
00:35:54.500 The Sicilian Inheritance is a Kaleidoscope production in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
00:36:00.360 The series is produced by Jen Kinney, Kate Osborne, Dara Potts, and me, Joe Piazza.
00:36:06.700 With key help from Laura Lee Watson of Digging Up Your Roots in the Boot and Ciro Grillo of Sicily Roots.
00:36:13.000 Many thanks to Giulia Paravicini and the Ancestry.com research department.
00:36:18.480 You can get your copy of The Sicilian Inheritance, the novel, right now at truly anywhere.
00:36:24.500 that you get your books. Anywhere you get your books. It's got the same name as the podcast,
00:36:29.220 but with more food, wine, and sex. Also, do not forget to get a taste of Sicily in the form of
00:36:35.520 delicious Sicilian olive oil at Cardenas Taproom. Make sure to check out our show notes for a link
00:36:41.620 to buy it. Or if you find yourself in Philly, just stop by. Our executive producers are Kate
00:36:47.900 Osborne, Mangesh Haticador, Costas Linos, and Oz Woloshin. From iHeart, executive producers are
00:36:56.080 Katrina Norvell and Nikki Etor. We also want to thank Will Pearson, Conal Byrne, Bob Pittman,
00:37:03.100 and John Marionopoulos.
00:37:05.300 chew on this bold question from dentine gum is it ever okay to compliment a millennial
00:37:18.000 on their skinny jeans in 2026 dentine chew bold