Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - The Great Bookstagram Revolution with Jordy's Book Club

00:00:00.000 Hello, hello, hello. Coming at you on the tail end of the Sicilian Inheritance Book Tour.

00:00:13.500 I have been on the road for a week. I am so excited and exhilarated and also exhausted

00:00:20.540 and drained and kind of beaten to shit. And you know what? All the things can be true 0.98

00:00:27.460 at once. They can. But if I've learned anything with this book launch, it is that bookstagrammers

00:00:35.220 and book influencers are more important than ever to the ecosystem of books. Look, 10 years ago,

00:00:43.400 I was able to get a feature in People magazine and sell a ton of books. But now, that kind of

00:00:50.780 press really doesn't do much. In fact, 90% of the readers I've talked to said that they found my book

00:00:57.280 through social media. That's a lot of power. A lot of power. I'm just going to say it. I

00:01:03.880 fucking love bookstagrammers. They're my biggest hype people. And my guest this week is Jordan 0.97

00:01:08.620 Moblo. But you might know him better as Jordi's Book Club on Instagram. Jordi's Book Club has

00:01:16.500 more than 140,000 followers. That is a lot of influence and clout, my friend. And I don't think

00:01:24.040 it's giving him too much credit to say that Geordi's recommendations really can help an

00:01:29.940 author find new readers. They can. They absolutely can. Geordi never expected to be a book influencer.

00:01:37.120 He didn't. It all came as sort of a happy surprise. But here he is, and he is wildly,

00:01:44.920 wildly popular. I love our conversation today because we're really going to dig into how we

00:01:50.760 can create more respect in the book-influencing ecosystem? How can we all meet one another's

00:01:55.840 needs? And how can we value the people who are selling books for publishers and authors?

00:02:01.460 And also, what can we all learn from bookstagrammers about growing our own personal

00:02:05.420 brands online and how to share our passions with the world?

00:02:08.960 hi i want to talk to you about the big wide crazy world of book influencing how did you get here

00:02:24.920 that's a good question um let's see i started six years ago in 2018 and at the time

00:02:32.540 um i had a lot of free time in my job and i was looking to kind of fill it with some new hobbies

00:02:37.120 And I got, I was always a big reader growing up and I kind of started getting back into

00:02:40.940 it.

00:02:41.220 And I was looking for this place to kind of track all the books I was reading.

00:02:44.800 I didn't really know about Goodreads.

00:02:46.240 I didn't know that there were, you know, story graph hadn't been invented yet.

00:02:50.220 And so for me, I went on Instagram and just kind of started looking around at book reviews,

00:02:55.400 didn't realize it was this thing and kind of fell into this rabbit hole that was book

00:02:58.900 Instagram at the time.

00:02:59.840 And it was so calming to kind of see all these beautiful pictures of books and find a community

00:03:05.000 of people like me who were talking about books, maybe having polarizing opinion about things,

00:03:11.460 felt like a place where I could nerd out, where generally it was like I was talking to my husband

00:03:15.260 and he was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And I just kind of fell into that

00:03:19.080 way. And I decided to make an account one day, put it on private. I didn't even tell my husband

00:03:23.500 I was doing it. I wasn't looking to build a following. It was basically just a place for me

00:03:28.540 to post the books I was reading. And then I kind of started getting into it. I kind of found this

00:03:34.140 creative satisfaction in the photography and the aesthetic and the layouts. And it just kind of

00:03:40.940 became this outlet for me where not only I could talk about books, but I got this really great

00:03:44.580 creative satisfaction out of it. And it just kind of took off from there. I love that. I love it.

00:03:51.120 You know, the most successful influencers that I know are the ones who started it just because

00:03:55.900 it brought them joy. Yeah. And I think that's I think that's a really good reminder. I was just

00:04:01.660 talking to lynn slater who wrote how to be old she's the accidental icon and she's like if you

00:04:07.520 want to be successful at anything like just follow your passion and you will like don't do it because

00:04:14.040 you think that you're going to have a certain outcome because the universe laughs at you

00:04:17.460 exactly and for me it was i think that i've seen doing this six years now i've seen a lot of

00:04:25.520 people create accounts um i've built relationships with them and then they've kind of burned out and

00:04:30.560 I've seen so many people kind of burn out and leave the platform and fall off from posting.

00:04:34.320 And I think because they come into it maybe with the expectation of, I want to build a

00:04:38.160 following and I want to become like Insta famous.

00:04:41.140 I want to be an influencer.

00:04:42.660 And for me, that's exciting and that's fun to have a following.

00:04:46.420 But first and foremost, it's how do I keep the creative passion and excitement alive

00:04:50.740 for me and how do I not burn out?

00:04:52.240 And over the years, that's been pivoting from things, whether it's doing flat lays or whether

00:04:58.120 it's pivoting to posts with arrows and captions or whether it's now doing reels, I've continually

00:05:04.080 continuously had to reinvent myself and challenge myself. And I think as a result, it's led to more

00:05:09.900 creative inspiration and continued to be an outlet for me that I really love. I don't remember ever

00:05:16.440 being nervous. I just remember being like, like kind of embarrassed a little bit. Now I'm so proud

00:05:21.440 and it's such a part of my DNA. But at the time it felt like such a weird thing to do, especially

00:05:26.020 I think at Instagram at the time, it was kind of like showing up your aesthetic and your lifestyle.

00:05:29.800 And this was like, my face wasn't in it at all.

00:05:32.120 It was just books, which seems so.

00:05:35.020 Right.

00:05:35.560 Yeah.

00:05:35.780 I mean, it was so it was different back then.

00:05:37.300 And six years ago, I would call you an OG influencer.

00:05:42.140 I would.

00:05:42.740 It feels like a lifetime ago.

00:05:44.700 I remember when I started, we would go I went to a couple of conferences and it was like, I think like book two was still like the very big thing.

00:05:51.460 Like there were some people, but book YouTube was really big and book Twitter was really big.

00:05:56.020 But I hadn't, like, there was definitely an OG group of book Instagrampers before me. But it did feel like there was a core group of us at a time. It almost feels like when you go into high school, you have kind of like your class that you start out with. And I can, I've seen now like newer generations coming on, which is really fun to see. But I still have some of my OG class that I kind of came up the ranks with that I still hang out with and talk to.

00:06:18.440 The original class. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I, I am, um, you know, elder enough to remember

00:06:26.140 book Tumblr, which was a big, big thing before Tumblr was bought by Yahoo and destroyed.

00:06:33.280 The good old days. The good old days. The good old days. Exactly. Exactly. Well, how,

00:06:38.740 how did you then grow this into something so big? I think some of it has to be organic because your

00:06:46.540 book recommendations are actually genuinely good that's not it's not always the case it's not i

00:06:51.780 like everything you recommend i'm like yeah that's that's a me book you're you're you're one of my

00:06:56.620 people which is the beauty of bookstagram because and so many people that enjoy different genres

00:07:04.000 can find the books yeah but then i think like you know some growth is also you know playing the game

00:07:11.080 with the algorithm so how did you how did you grow i think and a lot of things have changed

00:07:17.100 obviously in the last six years with how instagram operates and at the time like reels wasn't a thing

00:07:21.960 right you look at reels now and it's such a big powerful um force when it comes to engagement and

00:07:26.980 growing your account but when i started i wasn't really think i wasn't even like focused on it and

00:07:31.560 i think it didn't start until i realized that if you get enough followers the major publishers will

00:07:36.980 start to send you early copies of books and then that felt like the gamification of the account of

00:07:41.580 like how do I get to x number of followers to start to get advanced copies of things and so

00:07:46.720 I think for me it was like I did research which sounds very nerdy but like I was like how do you

00:07:51.840 how does one grow an Instagram account and was like things like at the time it was giveaways

00:07:56.480 which I you know a lot of people refer to as like almost buying followers but if you have a lot of

00:08:00.960 books or you have extras like it was an easy way back then to gain followers very quickly

00:08:04.660 um it was one of those things where i engage with a ton of people i would i would follow a lot of

00:08:10.540 people that i looked up to or whose accounts i liked i would comment on their posts i would

00:08:14.640 build relationships with them a lot of it was kind of quid pro quo like you would post stories in

00:08:19.580 anticipation that they would repost you and that helped so you would always hope like a big account

00:08:24.780 like back in back when i back when i started um if you were reposted by book of the month or

00:08:30.340 Reese's book club, you would get a ton of followers. And so we used to always buy the

00:08:35.660 Reese book club books, we would buy the book of the month books, and we would do these really big

00:08:39.280 posts featuring them in the hopes of getting reposted and getting followers as a result of

00:08:44.000 that. And so it was things like that, that I think really started to kind of help. But I also think

00:08:48.640 at a certain point for me, being honest, like I was, you know, a white, cute guy, like, in a sea

00:08:57.580 of women who are really, you know, holding the platform together and doing the job here. And I

00:09:02.620 kind of was the minority of people doing it in my kind of gender age group. And I think I was a

00:09:09.920 little different and allowed me to kind of elevate myself a little bit as a result of that and kind

00:09:15.500 of stick out. But I also think I was really authentic. I am authentic when I talk about

00:09:20.380 books in real life. I am polarizing. I can be abrasive. I have a very strong opinion. And I

00:09:25.800 think that comes through in my book reviews and what I like to read. And I tend to be drawn towards

00:09:31.340 premium popcorn commercial fiction, which I think is, you know, you walk into a Barnes & Noble and

00:09:36.800 that's a lot of times what you see on that front table. And so my reading taste probably also

00:09:40.940 aligned with a wider audience than a lot of bookstagrammers who really focus on specific

00:09:45.680 genres or niches. Totally, totally. And I am a popcorn commercial fiction girl these days.

00:09:53.520 I've gone through phases. I've gone through very literary phases. I've gone through my fantasy, science fiction phase. And this is where I've landed, not just as a reader, but also as an author. And I love it. This is where I want to be. It feels like my warm place, my happy place. And I think that's why I love your content so much.

00:10:15.580 uh and but for so it was so funny coming up because i was like oh i need to write a literary

00:10:22.240 masterpiece yeah and then it's like hey piazza you don't even like reading those

00:10:27.080 why do i want to write why the hell do you want to write one like what is this ego thing that

00:10:32.460 you've got going on here uh this is crazy it really is crazy and so then and then i found

00:10:37.820 my sweet spot uh and so yeah this this it feels really good and your content is my sweet spot but

00:10:43.800 But I do think it's worth noting that you are, like, a handsome white dude in a sea of women.

00:10:52.000 Most bookstagrammers, so many influencers are women.

00:10:55.360 I think it's, like, 80% of influencers, at least on Instagram.

00:11:00.140 Like, we're not talking creators on TikTok and YouTube. 1.00

00:11:05.000 It's primarily female.

00:11:07.220 And do people react to you differently?

00:11:09.040 I think one of the many reasons you stood out is because, especially in the beginning, you were a handsome dude in a sea of women promoting books.

00:11:20.180 And I think it's always nice on Instagram to see something other than what we're normally used to seeing.

00:11:26.220 How do you think this was either an advantage or a disadvantage for you?

00:11:30.800 I think when I started, it was neither of those things.

00:11:34.220 I wasn't an account that put my face to it probably until six to seven months in,

00:11:39.440 just because I had my own personal account.

00:11:41.940 This one felt very specifically driven towards books.

00:11:44.040 And again, I wasn't really being public about the whole thing.

00:11:46.480 So I think when I started, what probably drew people to me when I started was my photos

00:11:52.720 and my photography, because I did take a lot of time to kind of curate and make this aesthetic.

00:11:58.040 I had this really big gray dining table at the time that everyone knew my post by.

00:12:02.520 And I really spent a lot of time kind of learning photography.

00:12:05.860 And that became something that was really creatively satisfying to me.

00:12:08.660 And I think that coupled with my reviews and posts really kind of helped to start to build

00:12:12.760 it.

00:12:13.080 And then I can remember six months in actually doing like a introductory post and like a

00:12:17.260 picture of me.

00:12:17.980 And then I started kind of being the face of the account.

00:12:20.920 And I think that did help in some degree.

00:12:23.060 I think it was like, oh, you know, we are seeing a lot of the same recommendations.

00:12:27.240 We're seeing a lot of very similar kind of reviews and posts.

00:12:30.380 This guy is actually kind of something different, posting some of these things that are different, posting in a different way. And again, I was kind of like gamifying it. Like, how do I differentiate myself? How do I use hashtags? How do I do things that are going to elevate and separate me from maybe what's already being done and kind of what are the blind spots in the marketplace in a way that would help with that?

00:12:53.480 but I think a lot of it was also kind of like luck a little bit. Like, I don't know how that

00:12:57.700 logarithm works. And, um, I don't know, you know, what I did that was different or what I could

00:13:03.340 recommend to people other than I was really my authentic self. And I shared more about myself.

00:13:07.860 Um, and it's kind of a vulnerable, vulnerable position to be in being so public, especially

00:13:12.480 now with my account. Um, I try not to think about how many followers I have or who follows me when

00:13:18.000 i post about you know dumb things about me or my family or you know parenting or work um but i do

00:13:25.900 think those kinds of things also elevate me right i'm a i'm a gay father of a daughter i think that

00:13:31.460 you know differentiates me i think people like me now for the personal side of me as much as

00:13:37.080 sometimes the book side of me they just like to see the sunday stories i do with snarky faces and

00:13:41.920 reactions or just getting to know me and my life and how i read and how i read so many books and

00:13:47.560 how I've incorporated reading into my life. So I think the kind of lifestyle piece of it is

00:13:52.000 now almost playing as big of an impact as the reading piece of it.

00:13:56.500 I agree. And I call it kind of the Martha Stewart effect that, you know, Martha began as, you know,

00:14:04.980 kind of a domestic guru, but, you know, with instructional content. So here's how to bake

00:14:11.060 this or here's how to decorate this. But she became Martha fucking Stewart when she, like, 1.00

00:14:17.280 really brought this out as a lifestyle brand when she showed all pieces of her and brought us into 0.69

00:14:24.520 her home and yeah i mean i i do think i've been following you for a while now and it does feel

00:14:32.300 like your tipping point was really when you're like jordy's fucking book club where uh you know

00:14:39.460 we get a peek into your life because i do i love your book recommendations but i also love you know 0.93

00:14:45.120 your your sunday stories and i love hearing about you with your daughter i mean we really connected

00:14:50.600 when you started talking about potty training yeah and i was like let me tell you how i bribe

00:14:55.580 my children to poop in the potty okay a lot of people who have sent me their tips on how to get

00:15:01.980 my daughter to poop in the potty is who knew who knew the internet could be so helpful it's that

00:15:07.620 it's like that is like the one moment it's like book recommendations and also potty training i'm

00:15:13.320 like oh god thank god for you thank god um did did you get it did did you get it done

00:15:19.860 we're there we're getting there it's fine it's you know it's a work in progress but we're feeling

00:15:26.480 comfortable and confident yeah we went through so many phases we thought that that one of ours

00:15:32.320 was like an insane genius because at like 18 months suddenly they start walking to the potty

00:15:38.880 and and and just and like doing it and it's because they were watching a sibling doing it

00:15:44.960 and and it was we're like oh my god this is the easiest thing ever and then like another 18 months

00:15:50.820 two years and we're like oh no not there yet not there yet it's just crazy like the things that

00:15:58.420 are in your brain that you shove aside for things like let's go pee pee on the potty like i just

00:16:03.740 man never thought that that was going to be my mantra but it is these days but it is and also

00:16:09.120 how often i use the word potty in real life like when i'm out with other adults i'm like i'm gonna

00:16:14.880 go to the potty now god i hate myself actually i bring the m&ms to any bar i go to just in case

00:16:22.860 someone needs a treat after just in case okay i mean i know it and but that's kind of nice to be

00:16:27.720 honest because if you come out of the bathroom and someone's like have an m&m you know what

00:16:32.320 i like that level of praise and confirmation bring that back more in regular life thank you

00:16:37.560 i would like to bring that back more in regular life time for a quick break and a word from our

00:16:43.120 sponsors and and during the break if you want to order yourself one or seven copies of the

00:16:48.640 to slay an inheritance, I'm not going to stop you. I'm not.

00:17:01.540 I think publishers have really started to respect bookstagrammers in the past,

00:17:05.920 like, three and four years. And there's entire programs now dedicated to the bookstagrammer,

00:17:10.300 as there should be. And I want to see even more recognition. Like, I do think that bookstagrammers

00:17:16.140 should be paid for their content and things like that.

00:17:19.700 What do you think about trying to find a way

00:17:22.720 for bookstagrammers to make a living off of bookstagramming?

00:17:27.200 I think if you are signing up to be a bookstagrammer,

00:17:30.320 it should not be to make a living.

00:17:32.160 I do not think you can make a living

00:17:33.840 doing this on Instagram.

00:17:35.440 I'm impressed by anyone that does that.

00:17:37.720 And hats off to you.

00:17:38.860 I do not make a living off of my book Instagram account.

00:17:41.180 I'm sure a lot of people would be very interested

00:17:43.280 to know how much money I make, um, off the actual account. Not that much. I do make some now off of

00:17:48.500 some of my other ancillary, um, projects like my newsletter. Um, and sometimes I do get a sponsored

00:17:54.680 post, um, you and far between, but I also, I have a full-time job. I have a, you know, a kid, I have

00:18:01.020 dogs, I have a family. So like, I, I don't have the bandwidth to also monetize my account the way

00:18:07.020 that I think maybe others do.

00:18:09.220 But I do think that bookstagrammers deserve respect.

00:18:12.540 And I do think that they should be valued

00:18:14.700 for the work they're doing,

00:18:15.780 especially when it's publishers reaching out.

00:18:17.560 And I'm not sure that sending a free copy of the book

00:18:20.740 is always that value that should be associated with us.

00:18:26.080 I think there should be monetary value

00:18:27.520 associated with us.

00:18:28.860 But I also am not sure how much we're influencing

00:18:32.560 the publishing community or the buying community at large

00:18:35.720 versus a platform like book talk, which you can see meaningful sales data associated with book

00:18:44.460 talk videos. You see someone post a video about a little life and then you can actually see the

00:18:50.580 associated sales bump that book got and how it got back into the bestseller listening and exactly

00:18:55.100 how that happened. And I don't know if I can ever point to a book that I have reviewed or given a

00:19:01.060 platform that i'd seen an associated sales bump and i may be wrong about that but i think

00:19:06.400 to that effect we still are very influential in this space and there are millions of people on

00:19:12.460 instagram and i see them saving my reels and my posts and my stories and asking for highlights so

00:19:18.680 people are buying as a result of that and i do think um they should be we should be paid for

00:19:24.080 our work um when it's you know when we when the content or when the account is doing the work

00:19:31.140 that deserves to be shown that value and um i don't know the metrics for that i don't know how

00:19:36.440 the publishing marketing companies are working um to determine that i don't have access to all of

00:19:41.580 that data but um i do i do think sometimes i get outreach from publishers where it kind of feels

00:19:48.160 like i'm doing they're doing me a favor by sending me the book rather than the other one which is

00:19:53.180 like we're very helpful with you guys we drive people to buy the book we drive people to the

00:19:58.420 post we are driving people to the publisher's website or their own instagram page or the

00:20:03.120 author's page um and i think just um just respect in general i think is the bare minimum that

00:20:10.200 sometimes i'm not even seeing from publishers so um i think for me that's the that's the bar

00:20:15.060 that i'm looking at even yeah yeah no and i completely agree with that too and i can i can

00:20:20.380 say that from from the author side that you know i say all the time i'm like you know i don't just

00:20:26.140 blanket the field with with free books um you know it's the same i i consider it the same level

00:20:33.500 because i've died i've um dove uh into i write books um into the history of mom blogging and

00:20:42.540 back when companies thought they could pay these mothers in diapers and you know stick-free frying

00:20:48.480 pans. And then they would just do their job for them. And the majority of bookstagrammers are 0.99

00:20:55.380 doing this for the love of books. And it is an incredible service to readers to have other

00:21:01.560 readers recommending in this way. But don't just blanket the field and also not know someone's

00:21:07.760 content when you're sending them something. It's like a publicist sending me a blind pitch when I

00:21:13.180 was a celebrity reporter and being like, do you want to cover this municipal bond conference?

00:21:18.480 Yeah. Like we get I get asked all the time for people who are like, you know, we love your account and we think that this health and wellness book is the perfect book for you to review.

00:21:28.540 And I'm like, delete. Like, there's no way you actually looked at any of my content. You just saw my followers and decided my numbers.

00:21:34.720 You saw my numbers. Yeah. And from I think from a bookstagram point of view, I think some bookstagrammers need to realize that galleys are sometimes used as a marketing tool.

00:21:44.340 And so the job of the galley is to get into the hands of people with big accounts with all of getting lots of eyes on them. So I think there's a there's a there's a push and a pull there, right, where bookstagrammers kind of have to realize the impact and and what the value of galleys is and what the marketing or publicity teams are trying to achieve.

00:22:02.300 If there are print galleys, just like I think sometimes bookstagrammers get, you know, upset or readers don't love seeing things like book club stickers or the bursts on book covers, you know, saying coming soon to Netflix, things like that, that kind of cover up the cover art without realizing there's a whole marketing machine and authors behind the scene who are saying, yes, we want those things on our cover because ultimately they end up helping sell more books and getting more people to read those books and building value for the author themselves.

00:22:31.680 So there are a lot of things that are actually going on behind the scenes that I think sometimes readers don't realize that authors and marketers are really doing to kind of help build value for the author themselves.

00:22:42.000 i would love a more seamless ecosystem where there's a lot more interaction between publishers

00:22:49.540 and marketers and sellers and and book influencers and content creators just where everyone kind of

00:22:56.280 like knows each other better and um yeah you figure out how how everyone can meet each other's

00:23:01.840 needs because i love i love the world of bookstagram so much and i just i want to see it

00:23:07.840 want to see it flourish and succeed and i want people to to be happy and to feel good making

00:23:12.360 their content yeah i think uh i think as we discussed earlier i just think it's a

00:23:17.280 it starts with respect uh both ways right like where the book community kind of understands a

00:23:23.840 little bit of the the job of the marketers and the publicity teams and what they're trying to

00:23:27.940 get out of you know helping the authors and the books at the end of the day but also the marketers

00:23:32.620 and publicity publicists kind of understanding the book community and the work that goes into

00:23:36.940 a bookstagram and it's not just, you know, throwing a picture up there. A lot of us are

00:23:41.060 really taking time. Sometimes it takes me two to three hours to make some of my posts and I love

00:23:45.620 doing it, but it's also nice to feel valued for the work we're putting in because at the end of

00:23:49.760 the day, these are, you know, posts and reviews that help with marketing for the most part. I

00:23:55.560 don't generally post a lot of negative reviews on my page. So most of the stuff you see as me being

00:24:00.620 kind of a hype man and buzz and hype for books and authors. So I've been lucky enough to really

00:24:07.540 make some great connections with publicists and marketing executives in the years that I've been

00:24:12.200 doing this. So it, it is a lot easier for me at this point, having now done it for six years,

00:24:16.980 but for people starting off, it's, it's still tough. And I can remember when I started,

00:24:21.220 it was signing up for NetGalley. It was signing up for Edelweiss. I think we've talked about it

00:24:26.480 for Joe, one of your, your Charlotte Walsh was one of the first books I was actually approved

00:24:29.980 to read on that galley so i still remember being so excited getting my first few approvals but

00:24:36.160 there is a learning curve once you sign up for book instagram um as to how you start to kind of

00:24:41.740 build a reputation and a relationship with some of these at least some of these bigger publishers

00:24:46.760 though i will say i think with the rise of independent publishing and the success of a lot

00:24:51.260 of independent authors on book tiktok um it does feel like there's maybe some more roads to you

00:24:58.120 know getting access to books and authors and um information in that way yeah no there definitely

00:25:04.580 is there definitely is and you know one of the cool things about making this podcast is that

00:25:09.300 we've gotten to show the labor of creators the work that goes into posts uh because i do think

00:25:16.440 that just the the lay person who isn't as involved is like you just post a pretty picture and i'm

00:25:21.300 like oh my god like as an author who now creates content and like these things take me two hours

00:25:27.020 some time to make them halfway decent. And it takes content creators even longer than that.

00:25:32.220 It is a job. And even if you're doing it as a passion project, it is still work and it is

00:25:37.480 still labor and it should be both respected and I think compensated in some situations.

00:25:43.900 I think that a lot of times, you know, we at least when I started, it felt like it felt like

00:25:50.280 I was getting this great perk out of it. Right. Where my God, thank you so much for even reaching

00:25:55.580 out to me, let alone sending me a copy of the book. And now it feels a little bit like

00:25:59.100 sometimes I get in this place of, I get nervous even to ask the publicist or marketing executives

00:26:05.460 if there's a marketing spend for things they reach out to me about. And I think we should

00:26:10.120 normalize being able to email back and say, hey, I love this book, would be happy to feature a post

00:26:16.560 about it, but would also be curious if you have a marketing spend here. Do you have money to pay

00:26:22.280 influencers or content creators to do this because i've i've had situations in the past i haven't

00:26:27.320 seen it recently but there have been situations where i have been a huge hype person for a book

00:26:31.880 not gotten paid for it only to see some influencer in a totally different space that has nothing to

00:26:37.300 do with books getting paid a sponsored post for the same book and it feels like it doesn't feel

00:26:43.380 great to see that kind of thing and it makes me want to do less of that kind of work um but i will

00:26:49.960 say in the last year, probably at least for me, it does feel like for the most part, I'm getting

00:26:55.100 a really good quid pro quo with the relationships and the people I work with. And maybe that's in

00:26:59.800 part because I have kind of worked closer with people that are giving me the respect I feel I

00:27:06.260 deserve and value me for my time and probably worked less with those publishers that are not

00:27:12.300 as appreciative, I think, of the content we're working on.

00:27:15.340 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's interesting to be working on the other side of the pond at the same time because, you know, so much is the same in terms of publishing in the UK, but they definitely seem further ahead in terms of paying creators out of the marketing budget for books.

00:27:36.940 And it's the first question that my UK agent asked my publisher on our meeting.

00:27:41.280 They're like, what's your marketing spend on creators and like which creators are you

00:27:45.060 targeting and what is the reach?

00:27:46.180 And that is some that is a conversation we've actually never had at any of my publishers

00:27:50.700 in the US.

00:27:51.300 Well, that's that's that's exciting to hear.

00:27:53.740 And it feels good to know that people are taking that consideration.

00:27:57.020 I think there's a lot of people that are doing book influencing and content creators who

00:28:02.940 are spending a majority of their time really trying to change the way um the industry works

00:28:08.180 with content creators in the book space and i think that's how i you know i just want to say

00:28:12.440 i'm grateful and appreciative of those people who are spending a lot of time doing it i i unfortunately

00:28:16.980 don't always have that time but i do think you know in doing a podcast like this and saying i

00:28:21.440 think it is normal and okay to reach out and say hey like is there money to be spent on these kinds

00:28:28.840 of posts or, you know, what can we do that makes it feel like you are valuing the time and energy

00:28:34.080 I'm putting into something? Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I've worked in media for so long and

00:28:41.260 no one would have said, hey, can we just have a banner ad for free if we send you send you some

00:28:47.480 cupcakes? That wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't have worked like that. I will say, though, when I was

00:28:53.220 once in a while, not going to lie, Joe, when I when I was a gossip columnist, I may or may

00:28:58.820 not have mentioned a celebrity plastic surgeon when he gave me some botox you gotta do what

00:29:05.560 works for you right at the end of the day but i mean i needed a smooth forehead jordy

00:29:10.380 priorities priorities i mean oh those guys those like those those needle guys in in beverly hills

00:29:18.600 they would give you all of the gossip if you're in their chair like the second they've got a

00:29:22.720 captive audience they're like let me tell you who got a butt implant oh yeah oh yeah you know i know

00:29:30.300 i mean that's what i had to that's what i had to do for the job i get it i get it uh i loved i loved

00:29:36.280 our talk can we i want to end with some books that you're you're loving right now yeah um let me

00:29:42.140 think i okay so i really if you're looking for a thriller i really enjoyed amy tintara's listen for 0.89

00:29:47.740 the lie about a woman who has to return to her southern town to kind of clear her name of the

00:29:53.500 murder of her best friend, which she's accused of in this podcast that becomes a national sensation.

00:29:58.620 It's really fun. I love the voice. I think Amy is really funny and dark and twisty. And it was

00:30:04.840 just one of those books that kind of pulled me out of a reading slump, which I always think is

00:30:07.980 one. Yes. I'm dying to start that one. I'm going to try to start it this week. I mean, obviously,

00:30:14.960 because because of the podcast connection yeah um i'm i can't decide if i want to do the audio book

00:30:20.880 or the print book because i heard the audio book really does the podcast well i have heard the

00:30:25.900 audio is good and there are some good interstitials so i would be curious as to what that

00:30:29.560 like but the book is really fun and it's hard to put down it's it's very fast-paced

00:30:33.440 all right maybe i'll do both maybe i'll do maybe i'll do a melange yeah a lot of the two

00:30:38.660 that was really good i think if you're looking for like laughs and fun i think sylvia's second

00:30:42.840 backed by Hilary Yablon is really good um that's basically kind of like sex in the city meets

00:30:48.020 Thelma and Louise with this um 63 year old woman who walks in and her husband cheating on her and

00:30:53.280 decides to uproot her life move to New York City and start over again at the age of 63 and kind of

00:30:58.520 reboot what she's doing it's it's just really voicey again I thought it was like laugh out loud

00:31:03.320 funny I thought there were some solid twists actually in it um and I really I just really

00:31:08.840 enjoyed it it's just a really nice easy breezy escapist read oh god you're so good at recommending

00:31:15.900 books there's a reason that people like your page thank you i think the other day it's like i am

00:31:22.220 just drawn to fun popcorn commercial fiction yes things that are entertaining and i i had someone

00:31:27.820 the other day who was like this wasn't a five-star read for me it was just fine and i was like what's

00:31:31.580 wrong with just fine once in a while like books can just be entertaining like not every book has

00:31:35.820 to change your life as much as is, I think the reading experience in and of itself, like

00:31:40.620 I love watching The Real Housewives on TV.

00:31:43.420 It's not changing the world.

00:31:44.660 It's not changing my life, but it's really entertaining and fun.

00:31:48.480 And it allows me to escape for a couple hours.

00:31:50.380 And if a book can do the same thing, I don't think it has to be, you know, Schindler's

00:31:54.140 list to be able to.

00:31:55.600 No, no, it sure doesn't.

00:31:57.100 It sure doesn't.

00:31:57.540 I used to mock my job doing celebrity magazines to my gynecologist, of all people.

00:32:03.880 And she was like, you know what?

00:32:05.820 she's like after a day doing what i do all i want to do is get into a warm bath and read my 0.93

00:32:12.920 ass weekly and i'm like you're delivering you're bringing life into the world my friend and i'm 0.90

00:32:18.020 helping you do that oh 100 and like for me like i feel like people magazine is also my like that's

00:32:26.080 my thing right like i need to read a lot of people magazine i like a good people magazine on a sunday

00:32:31.300 sometimes like there's a lot of that nope nope oh both those recs are so good um and i think i

00:32:39.960 could move one more throw one more throw one more yeah i really liked um kylie reed's new book she

00:32:46.960 wrote come and get it a couple years ago which was like a a great book also and sorry come and get

00:32:51.980 it is the new one the new one the new one yeah she wrote such a fun age and get it about um a group 0.76

00:32:58.000 of college students and the resident advisor and this woman who comes in and kind of throws

00:33:03.260 everything into turmoil when she starts to do a research project. And it's super character 0.99

00:33:07.500 driven and kind of like that, that those books that kind of explore character dynamics and kind

00:33:12.980 of an awkward and cringeworthy way that you kind of can't turn away. But she does it in such a,

00:33:17.260 she takes so she takes something that is like a little and turns into so much in such a easy,

00:33:22.300 breezy way. And I think she explores some thought provoking topics and ask complicated

00:33:26.660 questions in a way that's really entertaining and complex and nuanced. And I just really love it.

00:33:33.220 I've just enjoyed recommending it to people so much. Oh, great. I have come and get it. I have

00:33:38.380 all of these on my nightstand, actually. Another perk of being an author, I do get sent galleys

00:33:43.660 and free books. Yeah. Yeah. Botox and books. It is not working out for you online. All you have

00:33:50.580 to do is write a successful book and they will start sending the book that way also.

00:33:54.720 Truth.

00:33:55.500 Truth.

00:33:56.320 That's the hack for everyone.

00:33:57.660 That's the hack.

00:33:58.260 Yeah.

00:33:58.560 I mean, it's the only reason I do this.

00:34:00.440 It's true.

00:34:01.940 Will you tell everyone where they can find you?

00:34:04.980 Yeah.

00:34:05.500 So I am on Instagram at geordies.book.club.

00:34:09.740 And they can also find me.

00:34:11.100 My sub stack is, you can find that on my website.

00:34:14.900 It is just geordiesbookclub.com.

00:34:18.800 Okay.

00:34:19.440 That is all we have for today.

00:34:21.520 I love Geordie so much.

00:34:23.160 I love his book rack.

00:34:24.140 If, like me, you just want delicious commercial fiction that you will devour, that will get you out of a reading slump, follow Geordi.

00:34:34.520 That's his jam.

00:34:36.120 And you know what?

00:34:36.980 I love Geordi so much that I don't even mind that he hated all of the male characters in Charlotte Walsh Likes to Win.

00:34:44.520 Because you know what?

00:34:45.780 So did I. 0.98

00:34:47.280 The women in that book? 1.00

00:34:48.340 They were wonderful.

00:34:49.700 The men?

00:34:50.800 Meh.

00:34:51.620 Meh. 1.00

00:34:51.940 Meh.

00:34:54.140 All right, I am going to go jump into an icy cold plunge right now because my anxiety is at

00:35:00.760 a fever pitch over this book launch. It has been a roller coaster. Like I said, I'm exhausted and

00:35:07.120 exhilarated and I just kind of need a breather. And I want to be honest about that because I

00:35:11.600 think a lot of times on social media, you see a lot of the highs and maybe I don't share enough

00:35:17.400 of the lows and I want to share my entire reality with all of you because I think that's

00:35:24.080 important. I do. Keep ordering The Sicilian Inheritance. Choose us for your book clubs.

00:35:29.760 I will zoom in. I will make cannoli. And, and, and, and, there are no three episodes available

00:35:36.380 of The Sicilian Inheritance podcast on Apple Podcasts. And I mean, if you want to take a trip

00:35:42.340 to Sicily and solve a hundred-year-old murder, we gotcha. We do. Now go do something nice for

00:35:49.440 yourself. You deserve it.

00:35:54.080 Thank you.

00:36:24.080 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - April 11, 2024

The Great Bookstagram Revolution with Jordy's Book Club

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