Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： Starter Marriage

00:00:00.000 Hello, and welcome to Sunday Nice Things. Today, I'm dropping a podcast in your feed

00:00:06.180 about marriage. As many of you know, I've been doing the committed podcast for about

00:00:11.240 10 years now. Because when I first got married to Nick Astor, I was 35 years old. I'd lived

00:00:17.980 a life. Okay, I lived a whole single Carrie Bradshaw style life. And I had no idea how

00:00:25.660 to be a wife? None. None. And to figure it out, I traveled around the world because I was a travel 0.71

00:00:31.540 journalist and it was free, not because I was like, you know, some rich bitch or something. 0.93

00:00:36.320 Traveled around the world and asked people how to be married. And that turned into a book called 0.96

00:00:42.040 How to Be Married. Clever title, friends. Clever title. Actually, also not the best title. I don't

00:00:48.360 love that title, but it is what it is. Maybe one day we'll release it as something else.

00:00:52.360 Anywho, I've been exploring the idea of marriage and what makes a good marriage and what makes a

00:00:58.400 happy marriage and what makes a successful marriage, and also how all three of those

00:01:01.980 things maybe are not the same thing for a long time now. So I love listening to shows about

00:01:08.580 marriage, and that's what this is. This podcast is called Starter Marriage. If you want to listen

00:01:13.500 to all the episodes, I'm going to drop the link to all the shows in the feed. You can binge them

00:01:17.840 there, this episode is called A Newlywed Nightmare. Because rain on your wedding day is supposed to

00:01:24.440 mean good luck. But for Allison and John, it meant they were about to have the worst year of their

00:01:29.540 lives. For John, that meant experiencing a life-changing setback in his career. Trust me,

00:01:35.560 I know about those, know all about those. And for Allison, it meant losing her beloved mother to a

00:01:41.200 rare neurological disease. So their time as newlyweds was anything but peaceful. And this

00:01:47.000 is the first episode of their podcast. There's so much more to come. But in it, Allison and John

00:01:52.060 dissect how this rough patch ultimately strengthened their commitment to an institution that many feel

00:01:57.740 is actually no longer necessary. But frankly, I love marriage. I do. I'm very, I'm very into

00:02:03.320 marriage. I think it's a good thing for some people and also not a good thing for others.

00:02:07.800 I think you're gonna like this show. Give it a listen.

00:02:17.000 Welcome to Starter Marriage, a show where we examine modern marriage from every angle, including our own relationship.

00:02:24.180 I'm Allison Raskin, a New York Times bestselling author, relationship coach, and mental health advocate who somehow convinced my husband to co-host a podcast with me.

00:02:32.800 And I'm John Blakeslee. I'm a former CIA officer turned writer who never thought I'd be talking about my life this publicly.

00:02:39.140 I have always been fascinated by marriage and spent most of my 20s desperately trying to get a husband.

00:02:43.820 And I spent most of my 20s lying to the people closest to me about where I worked.

00:02:50.080 I'm fascinated by modern marriage as someone who's wanted to be married her entire life.

00:02:54.800 I even wrote a book about it called I Do I Think Conversations About Modern Marriage.

00:03:00.080 And that book led me to so many fascinating angles, but books have word counts.

00:03:05.960 And so I could only do so much.

00:03:08.560 And so then I had a brilliant idea that is actually rather popular amongst people who like to talk, which is I could start a podcast.

00:03:17.720 I could, you know, have a companion piece where we get even deeper into all the intricacies.

00:03:23.460 Right. And like use our marriage as a prism for other people to think about their own, to think about relationships and to think about marriage itself.

00:03:32.420 You know, I think it's important that this show isn't just a rah-rah, get married or something kind of agenda.

00:03:40.720 It is really thinking about what it means to be married today.

00:03:45.960 I know. I was trying to think, like, is this a pro-marriage show?

00:03:49.140 And like, yes, but with so many asterisks.

00:03:53.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:54.320 Like marriage is also like a really hot button topic because I feel like there's this idea that like younger generations are anti-marriage.

00:04:01.000 but that's actually not true no no so i did a bunch of deep dive research for to prepare for

00:04:07.520 the show today and one thing that i found was that young people even though they are marrying

00:04:12.920 at a lower rate than our like their parents did or their grandparents did they still want to get

00:04:19.180 married so like 69 percent of young adults want to get married one day 28 are unsure and i think

00:04:27.920 like eight percent don't want to get married ever. But that means that most people, young people,

00:04:35.020 especially if they're like already living with a partner because cohabitation is like much higher

00:04:40.920 than it was a generation ago. Like one day they want to take a leap into this institution. And

00:04:46.720 the question is kind of like, why? What's the point? Why did we do it? Why would they do it?

00:04:54.680 And we're going to spend the next year trying to figure that out.

00:04:57.760 Yeah, we are slow learners.

00:05:02.120 But before all of that, I have to introduce our first segment.

00:05:06.480 Uh-oh.

00:05:07.320 Marriage Moments.

00:05:12.560 So this is a low-budget show.

00:05:16.420 And hiring musicians is really expensive.

00:05:21.200 So we got that song.

00:05:24.200 Well, no, we could have used the wonderful musician who created our theme song.

00:05:27.580 That's actually true.

00:05:28.880 But I decided I'm going to do it live.

00:05:32.700 And so communication is important in marriage, not unilaterally deciding, but a beautiful

00:05:40.820 song, honey.

00:05:41.540 You're a visionary and extremely talented.

00:05:44.120 Thank you so much.

00:05:45.080 You're welcome.

00:05:45.380 So Marriage Moment is a portion of the show where we each surprise each other with a moment

00:05:51.100 that we remember from our marriage.

00:05:52.840 You know, we obviously spend all of our time together.

00:05:55.540 So much of it is lost to history, history.

00:05:59.800 Although we have hired scribes to write everything down.

00:06:03.580 Volumes of vellum covered books.

00:06:06.540 But for whatever reason, certain moments stick with us.

00:06:09.160 And so I thought it'd be fun to surprise each other with the moments that did stick with each of us about the other person.

00:06:15.120 So I would like to talk about one of our very first marriage moments.

00:06:19.920 Oh, interesting.

00:06:20.880 so the folks at home probably don't know but when we drove we got married in santa barbara

00:06:27.240 we live in los angeles we live in los angeles so we're coming back home and we had like before we

00:06:32.520 even went back to our house we went right to the beverly hills courthouse because we were trying

00:06:38.020 to get allison on my health care insurance yeah and so we had to like file the and that's the

00:06:43.920 real meaning of marriage honestly it's a huge part of it i'm sure we'll talk about it we talked

00:06:48.100 about getting married like earlier so i can get your secret so you get on my health care but i

00:06:53.060 couldn't keep that to myself right like i would have told everybody and then at the wedding i

00:06:57.080 would have gone this isn't real and then don't fall for this right i'm a liar yeah i'm already

00:07:04.240 a married woman um yeah and then all you know when do you celebrate the anniversary it's it's a lot

00:07:11.220 you know for a short-term financial uh benefit but so we went right to beverly hills courthouse

00:07:18.080 and they rejected our marriage license yeah they did so we're like we're married and they're like

00:07:24.000 no you're not so what happened was john waited in the car with the dogs and i brought in like

00:07:29.720 it's so antiquated it's on this like one piece of paper and you have to like nobody can fill

00:07:35.400 anything out wrong and our officiant who was like one of our best friends jc thank you so much

00:07:40.240 incredible ceremony he i guess had put like what affiliation he was with in the wrong area or

00:07:46.400 something and so i give it to the woman and she's like oh this is wrong they're gonna reject this

00:07:51.460 and i was like oh no like what can i do and then she was like well here's a scrap of paper for you

00:07:57.040 to write down what the right information like tore it off something they had no procedure for what to

00:08:02.740 do if things had gone wrong they didn't even have like a proper notepad she had to like tear it off

00:08:07.200 of another piece of paper and then i had to like scribble something down and then and then they

00:08:12.660 were like we'll be in touch weeks from now in like six to eight weeks and then you'll have to

00:08:16.400 get remarried and it was like this whole thing and i was like oh my god and i came down and i had to

00:08:22.960 tell you that we that we were not married and for context too you'd been wanting to get married your

00:08:27.440 entire life right this has been like a big thing for you another blow and yet again like the world

00:08:34.060 is the universe was conspiring to keep you unwed and also i hate the male i don't trust the male

00:08:39.700 and the idea that that my life was determined by when this thing would be sent to me in the mail

00:08:45.560 was very upsetting right and so we spent the first few weeks as newlyweds was like we're married

00:08:52.520 question mark well spiritually yeah in our incredibly uh agnostic ceremony that did not

00:09:00.900 have any religious elements right and so we were like i guess we're married but then we found out

00:09:05.120 that it went through yeah then we just so then like um six weeks later we just received the

00:09:09.240 marriage certificate in the mail but there was this kind of state of uncertainty there for a few

00:09:12.720 weeks which is a metaphor for all of marriage there you go because we obviously we hope this

00:09:17.640 works out but who knows who knows all right so what's your marriage moment oh my marriage moment

00:09:22.640 okay so i need some context for the listeners i'm a big reader i love to read um and i read during

00:09:29.720 all my meals and also we have reading time at night where before we go to sleep we're each

00:09:34.900 reading on our kindle um in the dark although lately you have you haven't been participating

00:09:39.580 in traditional reading time i've been a little busy yeah you've been doing schoolwork and on

00:09:44.000 your phone and stuff but i'm still reading and i also really like to tell you about what books i'm

00:09:48.940 reading right including that one time we went on a walk and i told you the entire plot of angels

00:09:53.900 and demons uh-huh yeah blow by blow and in case no one's read a dan brown book before there are

00:10:02.180 a lot of plot twists a lot happened seems like for a book of that size way less should happen

00:10:08.260 i remembered quite a bit of it it's shocking it filled a 40 minute walk and for a person who

00:10:13.540 you knew a lot of how the vatican works well now i do because i also watched that

00:10:18.100 hit film conclave you loved conclave that was an incredible movie

00:10:21.580 so anyway i had started reading this book that many of you probably heard of fourth wing

00:10:29.280 which is a YA novel about a girl who like goes to like a war boarding school with dragons.

00:10:38.280 And I had been complaining to you that there hadn't been any dragons in the book yet.

00:10:43.360 And that was upsetting to me.

00:10:46.200 And so it's night.

00:10:47.680 The lights are out.

00:10:48.860 I'm reading my book and I go, things are working out for old Al, not realizing that John was asleep.

00:10:57.300 Fully asleep.

00:10:58.200 fully asleep and he wakes from sleep hearing me say things are really working out for old al

00:11:04.080 and goes they're dragons because he was so cute into both my book and how i operate yeah

00:11:14.840 that he knew that that's why i was excited

00:11:17.420 well you vocalize it a lot there's no dragons there's no dragons yet okay so i guess i just

00:11:27.040 was waking up and i was like okay good i guess there's dragons but i i didn't even say that it

00:11:30.980 was related to the book and you just knew you are i live with like a vaudeville performer

00:11:36.780 step right in folks i'll tell you a little tale about dragons that little song that you just sang

00:11:45.560 about about the marriage moment that's good yeah oh my god cartoon character so that was a moment

00:11:55.040 where i felt very seen and loved and i also felt pretty guilty because i'd broken you right i felt

00:11:59.740 pretty groggy in that moment my sleep is not being respected but i'm glad you felt loved

00:12:06.280 thank you also a thing that you do that's very nice is you'll let me snore and you won't wake

00:12:10.720 me up i don't wake you up yeah i have to wake you up yeah well i much i i i'm a harder more

00:12:17.880 difficult person the thing that

00:12:19.700 that's true that's true

00:12:24.020 so marriage moments which is going to really take off as a segment people are going to love it yeah

00:12:38.860 it's also an opportunity for you the listener to submit your own marriage moment we'd love to hear

00:12:43.140 because we love to hear the little moments that make up a marriage

00:12:46.020 That's clever

00:12:48.240 Okay

00:12:49.740 So if you want to submit your marriage moment

00:12:52.680 You can send an email to

00:12:54.000 StarterMarriagePodcast at gmail.com

00:12:56.740 That's StarterMarriagePodcast

00:12:59.560 At gmail.com

00:13:01.200 And now it is time

00:13:03.520 For me to

00:13:05.620 Seamlessly transition us

00:13:07.760 Into our next segment

00:13:08.880 Entitled

00:13:10.160 Pop the question

00:13:12.320 This is the part of the show

00:13:15.340 where we dive deep into the week's topic.

00:13:18.880 And so in our future episodes,

00:13:20.860 this is where we would introduce a guest.

00:13:23.100 But in today's episode,

00:13:24.220 I'll be introducing you as my guest.

00:13:26.460 Hey, glad to be here.

00:13:29.320 Why didn't you send me a short bio ahead of time?

00:13:31.340 Okay.

00:13:34.360 All right, so everybody,

00:13:35.860 please welcome my husband, John Blakeslee.

00:13:41.380 Joining me for the topic, why get married?

00:13:44.520 Why get married?

00:13:45.720 Because this is sort of a central question that we will be exploring, you know, throughout the show.

00:13:50.620 But in this episode, through the lens of how it was actually very beneficial to us to get married right before our lives fell apart.

00:13:58.140 Right. Right. Yeah.

00:14:01.580 Well, I think the first thing that I'd say is that we came to this institution with much different perspectives.

00:14:10.780 and this was something that you had always wanted and like were like urgently wanted

00:14:18.180 and I was a little more I wanted to get married in theory but I also didn't feel like it was a

00:14:32.420 necessity unless we were for sure going to have children because to me that was like the main

00:14:38.640 point of getting married um was to provide this like security for a child and a structure um and

00:14:47.420 i knew that you were on the fence about whether or not um whether or not you wanted to have kids

00:14:52.360 and so i think like i think i'm really excited about for this podcast is like to determine like

00:14:59.640 what about marriage can we take in modern life you know what what works for us and what doesn't

00:15:06.060 work for us and and maybe cast aside or let it the institution evolve and looking at it critically

00:15:12.440 um so i think like that's a good place to start maybe is just like thinking about how we

00:15:18.240 we looked at it in totally different ways and you had a take on marriage of like

00:15:22.660 why you want because i was like i asked you at the time and i'll ask you now it's like

00:15:26.480 why was getting married so important to you i think a lot of it was influenced by my parents

00:15:32.960 marriage and that they had such a great relationship and it was such a partnership and as someone who

00:15:39.760 grew up often feeling like I was doing life wrong because I had OCD since I was four years old and

00:15:46.440 I struggled really socially and I struggled a lot in my romantic relationships which you could read

00:15:51.420 about in my book overthinking about you it felt like there was an element of like this is how I

00:15:58.060 can finally like have my buddy I can like have my life partner I won't have to like go through

00:16:02.920 this thing alone and also an element of upgrading someone to the level of family right whereas as

00:16:11.060 someone who's like had many breakups and many friendships not work out my my parents were this

00:16:16.660 real bedrock for me and they were like family where I could just like depend and trust on them

00:16:21.460 in this way I couldn't anyone else and I felt like unless I was married to someone it would be hard

00:16:26.200 for me to have that level of, um, interconnection and like trust without feeling like we'd made that

00:16:34.620 commitment to each other. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really beautiful, but it is interesting

00:16:39.540 because it's a family that is, that you're choosing. Right. And like, you know, we were

00:16:45.740 just talking about divorce, like how divorce is, is something that's on the table that it doesn't

00:16:50.440 need to be this taboo thing if marriage isn't working for you anymore uh there's this legal

00:16:56.320 option of separation um and so but that's not something you necessarily do with your family

00:17:02.880 right like you can't divorce your dad or can you well

00:17:07.340 i mean you can you can obviously go no contact with your family i mean like all relationships

00:17:14.780 change and i think that you know since losing my mom um in september i recognize that like nothing

00:17:21.640 is forever and like like relationships always change your stability always changes and so

00:17:27.840 like i think the shift for me has been recognizing that our marriage doesn't have to last forever

00:17:32.980 to it still be of great value during the time that it is a value right which i know you don't

00:17:39.060 like when i say that i know now we've become like opposite we're like i'm more open to talk about

00:17:44.380 the possibility that things might not work out and you hate it welcome to starter marriage yeah

00:17:52.000 yeah well i think for me something did change in like saying a vows to you and um that

00:18:03.640 i think that as we have you know this past year settled into our relationship there is so much

00:18:13.000 safety um in it and the the feelings that it it might feel conditional in some way is is

00:18:22.840 cuts against that safety you know that oh well you know you can dispose of of you know your marriage

00:18:30.540 and that i think one thing that makes marriage really special and worthwhile is that it is a

00:18:38.900 commitment it's a legal spiritual emotional commitment that you financial financial that you

00:18:46.720 do a ceremony for you know um and it signifies something that i mean i i really do find the

00:18:56.280 vows like in sickness and health as i can't remember them of course but you know in good

00:19:01.520 times and bad and sickness and in health um until death do us part is a um is a profound thing to

00:19:07.780 say i mean it's um and so if without that or with the the sense that there is an exit strategy and

00:19:17.500 don't get me wrong i'm like for people should be elected to divorce you come out today being

00:19:23.120 anti-divorce yeah no no but you know it it's something to reckon with a little bit like um

00:19:29.920 you know where does where does that end where did where does it begun you know what kind of

00:19:37.080 things, does it, should it be conditional on if, is it just that it's not working for

00:19:41.080 you anymore or, you know, you know, what does marriage mean if it, if it isn't until death

00:19:45.980 do us part, you know?

00:19:47.720 So the conclusion I came to in my book, I think was sort of that you have agreed to

00:19:53.440 a certain type of marriage when you get married and that's a marriage filled with like respect

00:19:58.320 and love and support.

00:20:00.980 And, and if that becomes no longer the case, then that you're in a different marriage than

00:20:06.300 the one you agreed to yeah and so that's sort of like how i judge it a little bit of like you're

00:20:12.020 not just trapped to marriage as a concept you're trapped to you're not trapped at all but you're

00:20:16.660 you're committed to a type of of relationship and sometimes because of external factors because of

00:20:22.800 how we change because of things out of our control that dynamic has shifted so much that the

00:20:27.840 relationship you find yourself in is not one you would have signed up for that's interesting and

00:20:32.040 now I'm just interviewing you, but, but you're the expert. I'm, I'm no expert. Um, is like,

00:20:42.620 okay, that makes total sense. But then how do you also allow for people to change?

00:20:48.740 People change, marriages evolve. The marriage that we have even next year is going to be

00:20:57.620 different than the one that we have this year. Nevermind, you know, hopefully 10 or 20 years

00:21:01.240 from now and so we might not be in the same marriage that we signed up for um we won't be

00:21:08.820 right i mean they say that that you're married to many different people during the course of

00:21:12.640 your marriage to one person but i think that it still has to be a dynamic that's additive

00:21:17.180 i see that's really where it comes down to for me it's like if your marriage isn't a positive

00:21:22.780 force in your life and that doesn't mean that there's not like hard days and that they don't

00:21:26.560 drive you cuckoo and that like you know some some days you'd be like if only i never had to think of

00:21:31.480 another person right like that there's but that overall it's a net positive that your life is

00:21:36.800 better because this person is in it and because of your marriage that to me is the real marker

00:21:41.740 and that can that can be true in so many different iterations of a marriage right

00:21:46.300 but if you're like my marriage is making my life worse that's not great and then why do it

00:21:52.760 interesting interesting yeah no that that makes sense um i also think there's like a component of

00:21:59.580 agreeing to that even if you can end a marriage it's a process and it's not you know an abrupt

00:22:08.640 thing like how when your ex left you abruptly right um is that it's it's a thing that you're

00:22:17.260 going to work towards that, that, you know, it's, it's not a, uh, it's not something that can be

00:22:22.120 disposed of so, so quickly. I mean, that's the goal outside of abusive relationships where I

00:22:26.880 don't think the person needs to give any warning or work on anything if they're in an unsafe

00:22:31.920 relationship. But aside from that, you know, what you really, the expectation I think that

00:22:37.340 comes with the commitment of marriage is that there is some willingness to work on things if

00:22:42.020 they go awry yeah um but that doesn't mean that you have to work on things for the rest of your

00:22:47.880 life or that the amount of work that you have to do to get yourself back on track is worth it

00:22:52.940 right right because there might be like a marriage that's like been really blown up through like

00:22:57.500 you know some sort of betrayal and yeah okay if they put like 10 years of work in you could

00:23:03.540 really like learn to find and trust each other again i don't think that you have to say okay

00:23:08.840 I'll do that amount of work. You're allowed to say that's too much. I'd rather just start over

00:23:12.540 with someone else. Yeah. But I do think it's, um, I do think that's an important point you're

00:23:16.920 making, which is that there is work though. Yeah. Right. That like, um, that a marriage is not just

00:23:23.120 a summer fling or a fun thing that you are extracting value from. It's something that

00:23:29.220 you also are agreeing to invest in. Um, and just like investing in anything, you don't have to,

00:23:34.580 you know be long on it for your entire life um if it's no longer making sense for you uh but

00:23:41.960 but there is that component and so it's asking something of you that's like the element that's

00:23:48.540 like why bother with the marriage piece except as we'll discover there's a lot of other reasons

00:23:53.280 to get married like financial health insurance societal pressure yeah that jazz i mean that's

00:23:58.620 interesting because you know probably for most of human existence it was kind of a strategic thing

00:24:03.300 Oh, yes, as we'll find out soon in an upcoming episode where we explore the history of marriage as an institution.

00:24:10.320 Now I'd love to get specific about how things went wrong for us, starting with the fact that we got married on August 20th, 2023.

00:24:22.660 The hurricane.

00:24:23.060 The hurricane, where there was a historical once-in-a-century hurricane-turned-tropical storm in Santa Barbara.

00:24:33.040 Right. We were supposed to get married on a roof. We figured August, Santa Barbara. When is it? When is it rain? Right. That day. That day. Yeah. Never mind a hurricane. Right. Right. So we had people canceling flights. Both my mom's best friend and my dad's best friend canceled their flights until the night didn't come out, even though the rain didn't end up being that bad. No, it was nothing. And for a bunch of East Coast people who deal with with rain and snow all the time, it was.

00:25:00.040 well i think there was fears around how california would handle it right who knows whatever anyway

00:25:05.600 people canceled and then uh and so and then there was also an earthquake that day uh the earthquake

00:25:12.360 hit right as my friend brie was coming to like uh help escort me right to the uh to the ceremony

00:25:21.600 and she knocked on the door as the building started shaking and i just thought i was so nervous

00:25:27.100 she was literally shaking the ground beneath me yeah but the wedding itself was lovely although

00:25:35.080 everyone kept being like oh rain is a good sign and i'm like that they just have to say that to

00:25:40.040 you right because otherwise it's too upsetting right i've been we'd planned this whole thing

00:25:44.640 we had to get this tent i had to change into my wedding dress in the bathroom of the venue rather

00:25:49.260 than in my room because i couldn't walk over across the street but it was very cute because

00:25:53.220 my nieces like were there with my mom and my sister and my nieces like just like had their

00:25:57.640 arms out like catching my clothes and we're like ready honestly pretty lovely memory um

00:26:04.420 but yeah so our wedding was was unexpected uh maybe that was a signal of what was to come

00:26:12.140 yeah that was great the wedding was great the honeymoon was great and everything else was

00:26:17.860 terrible right so our on our honeymoon is when you first had your ear infection oh my god i forgot

00:26:24.780 about that oh that's a big element of what went awry i forgot about that i had this ear infection

00:26:29.420 for months for months that no doctor could figure out like i went to multiple doctors

00:26:35.240 two no i went to multiple urgent care doctors and and they could not figure it out then i went to

00:26:43.080 like a specialist he couldn't really figure it out he sent me to his specialist well he was an

00:26:48.460 ENT guy ear nose and throat and so he sent you to his ear guy yeah he's like you gotta talk to this

00:26:53.020 ear guy and he'll probably not listen to this so he he was a character this guy was a total character

00:27:00.580 and the ENT to the stars ENT to the stars and he's always talking about this person he knows

00:27:08.260 that person this star that stars you know his whole office is filled with pictures of of stars

00:27:14.180 who get their nose and ears and throats uh taken care of by him and so he's a total character he's

00:27:20.820 always talking about this stuff and then he says to me he's like all right i'm sending you to my

00:27:23.880 ear guy but just so you know he's a little odd i go to meet this ear guy couldn't be more normal

00:27:30.960 yeah very normal guy just a normal doctor yeah but maybe that was weird to the to him yeah yeah

00:27:36.120 had a big personality so anyone that sort of presents neutral like a regular doctor

00:27:41.660 and isn't talking about all the stars yeah yeah which has got to be a hipaa violation but we'll

00:27:47.280 move on well i guess i don't know right if you've agreed to have your photo in the lobby and you've

00:27:52.900 signed it i don't know all right all right we'll see um yeah so like we had a joke going that you

00:27:57.940 were allergic to marriage because the moment you got married your health completely fell apart

00:28:02.820 Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:03.720 I couldn't hear out of one of my ears.

00:28:05.200 I know.

00:28:05.720 So that was terrible.

00:28:06.960 Yeah.

00:28:07.400 Then you got hit with a huge career disappointment.

00:28:11.420 So you want to give some background on all that?

00:28:13.720 Yeah, sure.

00:28:14.300 So I had sold a TV show to Netflix, I guess, the year before.

00:28:23.380 So this is a show you had been working on since the moment we met.

00:28:26.100 Right.

00:28:26.440 And so we met in February 2021.

00:28:29.980 Right.

00:28:30.180 and this was like the thing you worked on our entire relationship yeah and so for people not

00:28:34.380 familiar like these things sometimes take years and so first i sold it to a studio then with the

00:28:40.160 studio i sold it to network and you know every every step along the way feels like you're winning

00:28:46.060 the lottery you know in in the sense that the odds are so long you know that you're good it feels so

00:28:52.940 long that you're going to sell these things so you sold it sold it again i mean that's right

00:28:57.100 the odds were long that's a saying yeah i thought the odds were low well they're low

00:29:02.400 but they're long i think so all right whatever write in and let us know if that's important to

00:29:09.760 you um um and so i sold it to netflix worked was in development things were going really well and

00:29:17.680 then we were hit with the strike right so the strike started when in 2023 i want to say may

00:29:23.800 or something like that um and then when he came back from the strike suddenly everyone who had

00:29:30.860 a note in that building suddenly had a note you know and so i had to totally rewrite the script

00:29:36.020 it was it was awful it was awful crazy time and um we were supposed to go to mexico with my family

00:29:43.940 uh to this time share that we go to every year that december december 2023 but you had to do

00:29:50.340 notes and i was on a double book deadline yeah and so we had to cancel our trip yeah we just

00:29:54.940 canceled and we just worked through the holidays yeah totally worked through the holidays and then

00:30:00.060 finally it got down to you know the one yard line they're going to make a decision and we were

00:30:06.220 waiting for weeks and and it felt like everything was on this whether or not it was going to go or

00:30:12.400 not and uh and it didn't go and my parents are in town from new york they have like a condo in la

00:30:20.000 where they come and visit us and my dad had covid though so he was like uh vanquished to his

00:30:26.080 apartment and we were in the car with my mom and my mom i think was like on the phone with someone

00:30:30.760 else and then you got the call from netflix and then you got out of the car and i was sitting in

00:30:35.400 in the passenger seat and i could see you out of the car like very upset and so then i got out of

00:30:41.000 the car and then like you told me what had happened and we were like hugging and like

00:30:44.680 like i think maybe like crying on the sidewalk and then my mom was just like watching us do that

00:30:51.000 your mom i believe was on a call with uh a dog adoption group oh my god she was thinking of

00:30:59.800 so they're talking about like yeah we have this little cute guy and he's looking for a home and

00:31:03.860 then i got like the worst news in years because all the signs there you know we i had been sent

00:31:10.260 you know positive signs leaning up to that baby and also the industry is so unstable the

00:31:15.440 entertainment industry that it's not like oh this doesn't go i'll get another job like it's like

00:31:20.340 well right now especially right so the industry so they pass at a time where the industry was

00:31:26.480 really contracting and unfortunately nothing really materialized um after that for me and so

00:31:36.260 So I went through a period that I'm still in, to be fair, where I was kind of questioning my identity.

00:31:44.060 You know, I've been doing this for 10 years.

00:31:45.680 This is a dream of mine.

00:31:47.500 And to reckon with the idea that your dream, this thing that you've wanted for so long, that you've worked so hard to get and have gotten so terribly close to, is not going to happen.

00:32:03.160 And that you're going to have to do something else with your life.

00:32:06.260 um wrecked me uh and that sent me down a dark path mental health wise um

00:32:20.340 and so hopefully climbing out of it now but but uh but yeah i mean it was it's really hard and

00:32:29.620 it's a really difficult, cruel, uncaring business. Um, and so, you know, I felt that marriage was a

00:32:41.900 wonderful thing to have at that time because a lot of times you realize a lot of people who you

00:32:48.560 thought you thought would have your back or you thought, uh, you could call up, uh, after this,

00:32:54.300 uh you know are less interested when you when you don't have a show in development um and so

00:33:01.840 but to have my wife whose love was not conditional upon that success um was lovely and needed

00:33:10.600 and also you know then there's this this tricky thing that i was going through where

00:33:16.520 i was like so devastated for you but also the stress of being the only breadwinner because

00:33:25.920 the money that i had made through in development had been stretched out too too long so

00:33:34.180 the strike went on for as long as it did that added almost a year um to the sum of money that i

00:33:43.180 I received right so there was this you know and then and then during that whole period like I run

00:33:49.340 much more pessimistic with the industry like I've you know I just have had a different journey than

00:33:54.900 you and I like sold four shows and each one got canceled so like I never assumed that anything

00:33:59.600 is going to go ever I can't even believe we're sitting here right now recording this podcast

00:34:03.580 and so it was also this interesting thing of like leading up to that news where I was like we should

00:34:10.200 prepare for it not to go like what are we going to do if it doesn't go and you were very much in

00:34:15.040 a place of like it's going to go and that was like a tricky thing for me to navigate because

00:34:19.920 i didn't want to like i i didn't know right like i had to be like i truly have no idea i'm not i

00:34:24.980 don't work at netflix i yeah there's so many things that are outside of there are so many

00:34:29.920 things that are outside of your control i mean this is like the whim of someone's mood in that

00:34:34.260 moment like makes or breaks your life um but like holding space for the hope but also like

00:34:40.760 feeling a little disconnected in like my my fear of like but shouldn't we plan for it not

00:34:47.580 yeah i mean i had i had to believe there's only it's the only way that i could get through that

00:34:55.440 process it's honestly the only way i was ever even able to break into this to the industry

00:35:00.360 Right. I sort of think you need to be a little deluded. And I had to project confidence. Yeah. At all times. And I sort of suspect part of it, too, is that because you were worried about it, I felt the need to soothe you and to be it's going to be fine.

00:35:21.180 you know and so i i i didn't have the room it didn't feel like to question that it won't go

00:35:31.080 i just had to believe it and that was like a lesson for me and that like we don't have to

00:35:36.700 have the same perspective on things right that like we can approach life differently right

00:35:51.180 I will remember that that trip was for my mom's like birthday and Mother's Day.

00:35:57.560 And we were like supposed to go to high tea with her.

00:35:59.740 But you were not feeling up to it after that horrible news.

00:36:04.200 And you were like going to drive back to our house.

00:36:07.720 And my mom was like, you go back with him.

00:36:10.860 Like, I'll then come pick you up.

00:36:12.260 Like she I had sort of like was feeling guilty that I should stay with her because it was like her trip.

00:36:16.900 But she was like, your husband like needs you in this moment.

00:36:19.720 and that was like such like useful important advice that like she really understood and like

00:36:26.940 something i i hold on to that she told me that i was like of course i needed to go with you in

00:36:31.720 that moment but you know i'd never been married before i never like i i was so used to prioritizing

00:36:36.880 my parents above everything and like that i see them not as often they're in town like you know

00:36:43.060 but like for her to be able to just like explicitly tell me like no go be with your husband right was

00:36:48.300 so useful yeah that was quite a shift for you huh because you're obsessed with your parents

00:36:54.300 to say the least uh which brings us to the next devastating uh event of of the 2023 to 2024

00:37:03.860 uh time period which was in july of 2024 my mom hit her elbow and she uh didn't understand why

00:37:17.520 she'd hit her elbow but then her elbow started feeling weird and so it like she wasn't really

00:37:22.680 able to write clearly anymore and it like felt numb when she put on her leg and it was just like

00:37:27.380 bizarre and so she came out again to visit in July um of just a short few months later because as I

00:37:33.660 said I'm obsessed with my parents and um and it was like it was like weird what was going on and

00:37:39.760 so she like saw um like an orthopedic uh she saw an orthopedist because she thought it was an

00:37:45.300 ulnar nerve issue with her elbow right because she'd hit her elbow and the orthopedist was like

00:37:50.480 yeah like it'll just heal come back in 46 weeks which listener that wouldn't have worked out

00:37:57.360 um and then her arms started kind of like moving on its own and like doing weird stuff

00:38:04.020 yeah but i didn't think much of it at all like as someone who like has an anxiety disorder and

00:38:09.260 is like known to worry i was like not worried at all uh which is a strange thing to think about

00:38:15.220 Yeah. She goes back to New York and then on August 9th gets admitted to NYU Langone Hospital. And that's when they because her her arm was now moving without her consent. It was just like doing its own thing, which was like a very weird, terrible thing to watch. 0.79

00:38:36.120 and she was also having trouble walking.

00:38:38.260 And that was the first time they got an MRI done of her brain

00:38:41.400 and we got sent the results

00:38:43.380 and the results said, rule out CJD.

00:38:47.660 And CJD was something I had never heard of at the time,

00:38:51.280 but it is a prion disease

00:38:53.540 that is basically caused by like proteins misfolding

00:38:58.820 and it is fatal, untreatable and fast acting.

00:39:05.000 so uh when we looked it up it was like most people die within four months and i remember being on do

00:39:12.700 you remember being on the couch and i was being like it can't be that i mean you also looked it

00:39:15.960 up and it's one in a million people right and so you're like come on right because it said rule

00:39:21.480 out right it was like let's just prove it's not rule out the worst thing yeah um but so i flew

00:39:26.600 home anyway because obviously like my mom was in the hospital um and then i get home on on like

00:39:32.840 August 11th but but you didn't come because um we didn't really know what was going on right

00:39:40.880 um and our anniversary was coming up right so our anniversary we like made the decision that

00:39:47.260 we would like be a part for our first anniversary because I was like dealing with my mom's health

00:39:52.120 um spoiler my mother died six weeks later like it was just like truly like the most rapid horrific

00:40:00.260 disease possible. She went from like struggling with what her arm was doing to like not being

00:40:05.820 able to speak or move in any way in six weeks. So like the kind of decline that would happen

00:40:10.700 normally over years was like so truncated. Yeah. But as I was like kind of like being her caregiver

00:40:18.300 and like figuring out what's going on, I was like, you need to come. Yeah. I was like, just please

00:40:23.820 come yeah and you did right i mean like that's the element of like as awful as everything was

00:40:30.800 like because of my work being remote and you like being between things like we were able to like go

00:40:37.040 be in new york for weeks and weeks in a way that i think other couples wouldn't have been able to

00:40:41.700 certainly if the show had gone right i wouldn't have been able to to um to go and and you know

00:40:47.500 i don't know if we've even talked about this before but i i really didn't want to come

00:40:53.260 i was just finally crawling out of i was like finally writing again and working out again i

00:41:03.240 had gotten into a routine and i felt like i had finally gotten myself back a little bit

00:41:08.880 and then to you know to go to new york for this i we didn't know at the time that this was she

00:41:16.200 was going to write die right like we thought there was still quite a bit of hope at that at that point

00:41:21.200 um um i mean short-lived within two weeks we knew she was yeah yeah yeah but i just remember like

00:41:27.400 the night before i left being like you know this is you know i um yeah i don't know it was hard to

00:41:35.100 get to go in that sense but i also wanted to be there for you and i loved your mother loved your

00:41:41.740 mother um but i didn't believe i mean maybe the optimist in me again i didn't believe

00:41:48.140 i didn't believe for a second she was going to die yeah and but i'm so glad i i went because

00:41:56.740 um one it was important for me to be there for you it was important for me to be there with your

00:42:05.460 mom and say things that i needed to say to her before she passed um and just be like a steady

00:42:13.840 to the best that I was able to be like a steady presence for everyone you know um which included

00:42:22.440 taking my father to the emergency room not once but twice yeah your dad had a not heart attack

00:42:30.680 heart attack two different times yeah yeah and I went and I drove in the ambulance I didn't drive

00:42:35.880 the ambulance that would be that would be very silly but I went in the ambulance with him yeah

00:42:40.280 and sat in the tell the story of how the first thing happened so um you know your dad was

00:42:48.100 understandably um going through the worst moment of his life um and so he was just nervously doing

00:42:58.840 a lot of things that didn't need to be done and i was i think i was taking a nap woke me up yeah

00:43:06.160 don't think he knew i was taking a nap but he's like come on we gotta we gotta sweep the we have

00:43:11.220 to sweep the leaves or something or the water oh yeah that's right there is water outside of the

00:43:17.460 outside of the garage or something anyway i was like okay so i went down there he explained to

00:43:23.180 me what was going on and then he's like can you sweep this and i said yes absolutely and i was

00:43:28.380 like just excuse me i have to pee and so i was like i'll be right back so i went to the bathroom

00:43:32.940 it came back out and your dad had decided to sweep it himself because he couldn't wait because

00:43:36.940 he can't wait yeah 90 seconds right and um he's like i have a pain in my chest

00:43:43.520 and he's like clutching his chest and like i was like i think we should call the police

00:43:51.940 not the police not the police i mean the ambulance i think we should call the well

00:43:56.160 never call the police well no the police did come they do come yeah and and so uh i think

00:44:01.580 we should call 9-1-1 yeah and um and so we did and they came and your mom i don't think she was

00:44:07.940 able to speak at that point but she was really no she could talk a little bit a little bit maybe

00:44:11.380 yeah um but yeah i mean i was upstairs with my mom and you guys came upstairs and you were like

00:44:16.440 okay so and i couldn't tell if you were doing a bit or not right that's the problem with everything

00:44:22.520 in your marriage is a joke right but sometimes it's like no i'm trying to be really serious

00:44:26.940 real but like i was like is this and i and and it was also had reached a point where everything had

00:44:31.940 gone so horribly wrong like everything was such a nightmare that like it was where you were just

00:44:36.600 sort of like manically laughing at the next horrible thing so many gallows humor yeah right

00:44:40.920 like and so you were like um so we think ken's having a heart attack we are gonna call the

00:44:46.640 ambulance and i'm just like yep that makes total sense because my mom had said to me she was like

00:44:52.260 every time i'm sick your dad gets sicker and at the time i was like he's always got a one-up

00:44:59.280 and she had said that a few days before and i was like yeah mom but like you're dying

00:45:04.380 like what is what's gonna one-up you but then my dad immediately like has to be taken in an

00:45:09.720 ambulance to the hospital and i was like well she knew she knew her husband yeah yeah yeah

00:45:16.380 thankfully he was not suffering a heart attack it was like broken heart syndrome yeah something

00:45:20.760 where just the stress of it yeah but but it happened twice yeah and uh both times

00:45:26.680 we you know took it very seriously and whoo so yeah no it was it was a lot but i there was also

00:45:34.780 some lovely moments too like i i took um our niece um to play tennis and like the pro didn't

00:45:42.160 show up for her tennis lesson so i gave her a tennis lesson like there was all these like

00:45:46.480 little moments where i really felt a part of the family for the first time you know or it felt

00:45:53.100 really cemented well you were needed yeah like you were like thrust into the raskin family dynamic

00:45:58.900 in like a priority role because everything was falling apart right um and i of course was grieving

00:46:05.040 myself but was in the position where i kind of had to be strong you know or or be be there for

00:46:15.160 you guys you know in a way and so and i was happy to do that um and on our anniversary you surprised

00:46:22.120 me with the carvel ice cream cake we had a night we had a gourmet ice cream cake at our wedding

00:46:27.740 that they made just for us that was very exciting so the best and second best thing i could do is

00:46:32.100 carvel i mean carvel i would have had carvel at our wedding i know you would have fudgy the whale

00:46:37.900 is i mean he's the good one as he's coaster it is hard to top um so yeah so we had like a mini

00:46:43.920 anniversary celebration at the house with the fudgy the whale um where like my like with the

00:46:50.340 background of like my mother dying yeah um but she she was she knew you were ordering that she

00:46:56.300 supported it yeah um yeah i i think that like for me because i ended up being like the primary

00:47:04.920 I mean we had aids and then a nurse as things got worse and stuff but like I was kind of the

00:47:09.500 primary caregiver during that time and so you caregiving me was like what allowed me to like

00:47:15.060 keep functioning yes that's what I focused on first and foremost was you um we we did um couples

00:47:27.060 counseling before we got married as like a premarital thing we you know there weren't any

00:47:32.260 problems it was just I'm sure you'll talk about this in this show but um we had this brilliant

00:47:37.060 amazing um couples counselor um named John Sloan and he said is that his name we'll get into that

00:47:46.120 but uh John Sloan um uh he has this saying that you're not just marrying a person you're marrying

00:47:55.600 another nervous system and it's two nervous systems interacting triggering each other

00:48:02.440 delighting each other lighting up this other person on a neurobiological level

00:48:08.440 and that the most important thing in a relationship is to manage the thirds as he would say which is

00:48:18.060 like the only the thing that matters is this dynamic between the two of you and everything

00:48:22.620 else is a third the dyad yeah and um I just thought it was a brilliant way of thinking of

00:48:28.360 it and so in that moment even though there were a lot of thirds a lot of important thirds

00:48:32.540 thirds that you had to prioritize over us that my job was to make sure that um that you and me

00:48:40.760 were okay and were in um that you felt supported and um and that you and you and me were the system

00:48:51.660 that is you and me was working i think that comes back to what we were saying earlier like i don't

00:48:58.980 think i could have asked you to like give up your life and like live with my family for six weeks if

00:49:03.340 we weren't married right like if i was doing this for a girlfriend and i'm sure i'm sure i would do

00:49:09.380 that i mean like plenty of people are life partners without the marriage piece and that's something

00:49:13.020 we'll talk about a lot like is the marriage necessary i think it's really person to couple

00:49:17.880 to couple dependent right for me i think given my relationship history it would have it would

00:49:23.180 have felt uncomfortable to ask that of someone yeah um that wasn't my husband right and for me

00:49:31.940 to be with your father to be like i'm his son-in-law um and part of that is societal right

00:49:40.140 It's about how the doctor treats me versus our relationship per se, but I have to imagine

00:49:48.760 it was different for him too, you know, like this is my son-in-law, not the guy my daughter

00:49:55.440 is currently dating.

00:49:58.180 It defines, a marriage not only defines a relationship between two people, it defines

00:50:03.920 a relationship, all kinds of relationships.

00:50:07.740 Suddenly he has a son-in-law.

00:50:09.000 Right.

00:50:09.320 suddenly I have a father-in-law I had a mother-in-law you know I had a sister-in-law

00:50:14.520 suddenly I'm Uncle John right to my nieces instead of John or maybe Uncle John you know

00:50:23.320 and so it defines all these relationships outside of that primary dyad and that's a

00:50:31.060 really interesting web of human connection that's it's fascinating to live through

00:50:37.660 right like your sister came to the funeral she flew across the country across the country

00:50:42.480 and it was like yeah my sister-in-law came right exactly and then the night of the funeral

00:50:49.500 you started a grad program oh my god that morning i spoke at your mom your mother's funeral

00:50:58.680 and then that evening i took a statistics class yeah your first one ever my first one ever

00:51:04.820 because like during all of this transition period we had made the decision that you were

00:51:10.320 going to go back to school right and that was like a tricky thing for us to navigate too because you

00:51:16.140 know i since then i've started a relationship coaching business but you know i also still

00:51:22.020 work as a writer and as a creative and things and so it was this this unclear question to be like

00:51:30.820 can I ask my partner to give up his dreams when I still get to live mine?

00:51:36.460 Right.

00:51:37.420 And that's something I think we're still navigating, you know,

00:51:42.320 because unfortunately, like I've been able to, to,

00:51:46.060 to make money in a more consistent way,

00:51:49.040 just from like the luck of working at Buzzfeed to having a YouTube channel to

00:51:54.120 just like diversifying my writing in a way where it's like, if I was only,

00:51:58.880 if I only relied on screenwriting money I haven't made money from screenwriting in like five years

00:52:04.860 maybe more but I just have different outlets um and so that's like I think you said we had this

00:52:11.820 very intense conversation in New York do you remember this where you were like you know being

00:52:17.600 a writer used to be the thing I wanted the most that like I wanted to be a writer before being a

00:52:22.820 before being a husband before being a father that was my identity that was the only thing I cared

00:52:27.180 about for a decade and I said to you I said look like you are allowed to still be that way like if

00:52:34.420 that is still true that writing is the thing that you care about more than anything else then like

00:52:39.540 I don't want to hold you back from that but we should get divorced and because that was my that

00:52:46.700 was my true belief like if that was if that was the life you wanted to live where you prioritize

00:52:50.940 writing above everything then we shouldn't be together because like we were you know I wasn't

00:52:57.560 making enough money for us to long term like me be the only breadwinner and then like what would

00:53:03.320 it look like to have kids if you were writing but like you know like it just wasn't it wasn't a

00:53:08.560 feasible situation to live the life of a starving artist while being married and us trying to like

00:53:15.100 grow a family but I really felt in my head I was like if that it I felt like this sense of like if

00:53:21.220 that's the choice he makes and that's then like that's the choice I have to let him make like I

00:53:25.800 felt like I I didn't want you to sacrifice who you were to be in this marriage but then I also said

00:53:33.500 to you I said it's possible that you've changed that it's possible that maybe that used to be

00:53:38.600 true that you wanted to be a writer above being a husband and a father and and you know prioritizing

00:53:44.460 family and stability but maybe that's not true of you anymore and i i think that's the conclusion

00:53:51.580 you came to because we didn't get divorced stay tuned um uh yeah yeah yeah um

00:54:01.920 yes yeah it's um it's still probably the greatest heartbreak of my life

00:54:13.200 but um but does that mean

00:54:18.640 that I don't want to live my current one with you no so you know

00:54:29.440 yeah I mean I sort of suspect I'll be it'll always be the one that got away but you can

00:54:38.720 always write yeah i mean there's a difference between writing dedicating your life to it and

00:54:45.540 you know and and not pursuing other livelihoods and then write and then writing and you know while

00:54:52.100 you're working another job right and i think you'll always keep like i i don't want you to

00:54:58.300 give up writing it's just giving up building your life around having to make money from writing

00:55:04.220 which feels like two different things right

00:55:06.220 you could maybe you're now right now you're contemplating a divorce

00:55:12.800 no i i don't know what more to say about it you know yeah um but we got we got through it yeah

00:55:21.220 we're now at what a year of a little almost almost two years into the marriage

00:55:26.720 yeah it'll be our two-year anniversary in august and we got a baby coming we got a baby coming

00:55:32.800 little guy or gal i remember last my last birthday in june we were at dinner with my parents and my

00:55:41.360 mom was like oh well maybe next year there'll be a little one with us and it's like yes but you'll

00:55:48.280 be dead which is like so disorienting yeah right yeah like it just really puts so much for me into

00:55:56.740 focus of like we just don't know what's going to happen and so like i don't know we can make plans

00:56:02.560 and we can plan you know and we can like strive for things but ultimately so much of life is out

00:56:07.060 of our control yeah well kind of a bummer but you know how do we that thank god we have one more

00:56:18.680 segment left of this of this upbeat riveting show um okay so our final our final segment

00:56:26.920 is a soon-to-be patented game show

00:56:30.980 that I've created

00:56:31.700 entitled Stay or Leave.

00:56:34.260 Okay.

00:56:34.800 Where I present you, John,

00:56:36.480 with a hypothetical

00:56:38.220 of what could happen to us in the future.

00:56:41.100 All right.

00:56:41.740 And you decide if that happened,

00:56:43.800 if you would stay or leave.

00:56:45.100 Okay.

00:56:47.740 All right.

00:56:48.640 I unilaterally decide

00:56:50.120 that I need to move back home to New York

00:56:51.960 to be closer to my family

00:56:53.340 after losing my mom.

00:56:55.460 I make an arrangement

00:56:56.300 with my sister that we can live in her

00:56:58.320 basement for free if we

00:57:00.280 help out with her kids.

00:57:02.280 It is a very nice and spacious

00:57:04.540 basement. It's a pretty nice basement.

00:57:06.440 I say this is something I have

00:57:08.380 to do and unfortunately

00:57:09.980 it is not open for discussion.

00:57:13.200 Would you stay

00:57:14.160 or leave?

00:57:17.120 Well, that is

00:57:18.320 a really nice basement.

00:57:19.940 There is a poker table

00:57:21.720 and a golf simulator.

00:57:24.220 That could be fun for you.

00:57:25.220 do we have access to the pool yeah okay i mean

00:57:31.580 okay look if the real answer to this is you gotta leave

00:57:38.160 because someone is making uh this uh really uh outrageous demand and not including you

00:57:49.100 in that process.

00:57:51.580 Unilateral is never a good sign

00:57:53.300 in a marriage.

00:57:53.820 Really terrible.

00:57:55.100 And this would indicate

00:57:56.180 bad things about the future.

00:57:58.900 But in this case,

00:58:00.180 the basement is really nice.

00:58:02.300 It's a really nice basement.

00:58:03.780 It's the size of,

00:58:04.900 it's bigger than I'd say

00:58:05.840 most people's homes.

00:58:06.780 It might be bigger than our home.

00:58:08.400 Yeah, I think it is.

00:58:11.620 And so in that case,

00:58:12.900 we're kind of getting an upgrade.

00:58:16.200 We're getting free rent.

00:58:18.020 Yeah. 1.00

00:58:19.100 To hang out with the girls, lovely, two lovely ladies. 0.89

00:58:24.440 And we get a pool and a golf simulator. 0.98

00:58:26.740 Right.

00:58:28.160 All right.

00:58:30.200 Okay, I'm going to pitch my sister on this idea.

00:58:33.500 Yeah, I'm sure Jocelyn would really love it.

00:58:37.040 Well, we did it.

00:58:37.860 We reached the end of the episode, our inaugural episode.

00:58:40.980 We did it.

00:58:41.520 Did you have a nice time?

00:58:42.980 I had a great time.

00:58:44.000 Did you?

00:58:45.020 It was more intense than I was expecting.

00:58:47.280 Yeah, me too.

00:58:48.240 It was.

00:58:49.100 Um, but marriage is intense.

00:58:52.420 That's true.

00:58:53.020 I feel like we really showed the highs and lows of what it means to be married.

00:58:58.000 Yeah.

00:58:59.560 And if you are married and would like to share a marriage moment, TM, is that trademark?

00:59:05.680 Yeah.

00:59:06.120 Well, I can just say TM.

00:59:07.560 No, it's a whole legal thing.

00:59:08.940 But I could just say it.

00:59:10.020 You actually can't.

00:59:11.240 If you would like to submit your marriage moment, TM, please email startermarriagepodcast

00:59:16.980 at gmail.com.

00:59:18.640 That's startermarriagepodcast at gmail.com

00:59:21.440 where you can send in your marriage moment, TM,

00:59:23.620 and also any marriage-related topics

00:59:26.000 that you would like us to cover in future episodes.

00:59:28.360 And if you've enjoyed the show,

00:59:29.660 please tell your friends to subscribe

00:59:31.440 and give us a five-star rating

00:59:32.700 to help more people discover what we're talking about.

00:59:35.680 And if you don't want to do any of that,

00:59:37.340 you can just tune in next Monday

00:59:38.720 when we will be discussing

00:59:39.960 navigating your spouse's mental health

00:59:42.360 with therapist Shiva Rajai.

00:59:44.920 We'll also talk about my decision

00:59:46.420 with Allison's encouragement

00:59:47.860 to finally go on medication.

00:59:51.460 Dum-dum-dum.

00:59:52.580 It took me a second to get it out.

00:59:54.120 Yeah, spoiler.

00:59:54.820 It's working great.

00:59:58.240 And in the meantime,

00:59:59.540 you can follow my sub-stack

01:00:00.900 emotional support lady

01:00:02.000 for more mental health-related writing.

01:00:04.260 And my new rom-com novel,

01:00:05.800 Save the Date, is out,

01:00:07.400 which is loosely based off

01:00:08.740 of my broken engagement

01:00:09.760 and may or may not

01:00:11.200 feature a character based on John.

01:00:13.220 It absolutely does.

01:00:14.660 And the fact that Allison

01:00:15.720 and keep suggesting that it doesn't is a lie.

01:00:18.680 You can also watch a video version

01:00:20.280 of this entire podcast on youtube.com

01:00:23.060 backslash just between us.

01:00:25.960 And as we always say at our home,

01:00:28.500 our woof, which is French for goodbye.

01:00:31.640 It absolutely is not.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - August 03, 2025

Sunday Nice Things： Starter Marriage

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