Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： The Messy Parts with Katie Sturino

00:00:00.000 Hello, all, and welcome to Sunday Nice Things. The last Sunday Nice Things before everyone

00:00:09.660 is lying to you is launched into the world. So if you're listening to this right now,

00:00:13.860 I hope you've ordered the book the internet cannot stop talking about, because I want

00:00:19.240 to talk about it with all of you. Everyone is lying to you drops on Tuesday, which means

00:00:24.500 if you order right now, it's pretty much going to be here ASAP. You might even get

00:00:28.980 it early. You might even get it tomorrow. So go to wherever you buy books and order your copy

00:00:34.600 of Everyone is Lying to You right this second. And if you've already ordered one, thank you.

00:00:40.440 I love you. You're the best. And if you want to order one for a friend, I'll give her a call.

00:00:45.740 I'll give her a call and talk about it. I'll sign it. I'll do all the things because I always do

00:00:50.580 all the things. I love you. I adore you. All of you are the best. You know what else is the best?

00:00:55.220 new podcasts. Today I'm dropping an episode that I really love in your feeds. This is a new show

00:01:02.340 and it's called The Messy Parts. This is something I can totally relate to because we live in a world

00:01:09.340 where our social media feeds are overflowing with polished success stories. And this podcast is

00:01:16.940 asking, what if all of our life changes, all of our career breakthroughs, all of the good stuff

00:01:23.900 actually came from our messiest moments, actually came from the ones that aren't polished and aren't

00:01:29.200 successful. The show is going to have candid conversations, revealing never-before-heard

00:01:34.980 stories behind people's very influential careers. And the first episode is with one of my favorite

00:01:40.640 people. You may know her from Instagram. You may know her as the founder of Megababe. You may know

00:01:46.340 her as the author of the brand new bestseller Sunnyside Up, which I've been recommending to

00:01:51.380 everyone on the beach. Yes, this episode is with Katie Starino, and it is an intimate 35-minute

00:01:58.840 conversation that talks about all of the ups and downs and messy parts of life. All the stuff that

00:02:04.600 we don't talk nearly enough about, and I think you are just gonna love it. If you want to binge

00:02:10.000 other episodes of The Messy Parts, I will drop a link in your feed in the show notes. Happy

00:02:15.560 listening, and don't forget, order your copy of Everyone is Lying to You today. Can't stop.

00:02:21.380 won't stop always be marketing friends always be marketing happy listening

00:02:28.640 no success is the ultimate revenge what do you think this book is for what do you think all

00:02:33.880 my taxi ads are out there are for you know what i mean it's for my enemies oh so it is still

00:02:37.280 revenge yeah oh yeah it's all for my enemies because it is a motivating thing it's so human

00:02:42.580 revenge is so motivating and people underestimate it and they're like it's toxic it's bad i'm like

00:02:47.020 I do everything for my enemies. Oh my God, this could be the insight that drives all of us.

00:02:52.960 Maybe, maybe it is. You know what I mean? It's just you're petty as hell and you just gotta like-

00:02:58.220 I can be petty and magnanimous at the same time.

00:03:05.100 So we just had Katie Storino on the podcast and I gotta tell you, this is going to be a good one.

00:03:11.080 Katie is an influencer, an entrepreneur, and hello, a novelist. This book is coming out in June.

00:03:17.060 The thing that really is startling about her story

00:03:19.580 is that she's clearly letting it all hang.

00:03:22.560 That is part of her brand, vulnerable, authentic,

00:03:25.320 but she's an introvert and she has fear and anxiety

00:03:28.160 as do many of us,

00:03:29.460 but she's able to push past that and just go for it.

00:03:33.000 And in those moments, the other thing that struck me

00:03:35.700 is that she sort of recognizes luck and opportunity

00:03:39.140 and trust her gut and goes with pivots

00:03:42.360 that may not have been planned.

00:03:44.680 And that is like Ina Garten.

00:03:46.260 she told me, which is kind of an interesting tidbit because like me, she doesn't actually

00:03:50.360 like to cook. So you're going to want to tune in because Katie, it's a really good one. Okay. So

00:03:56.860 Katie, you're going to be the first one to go on the show. And I'm so excited that you're here.

00:04:01.700 I'm so happy to be here. You know what I've discovered about you? I mean, I know you as a

00:04:05.700 neighbor and a friend, but now I'm like deep into the Google universe and, you know, watching all

00:04:11.680 your various videos, you let all the messy parts hang. I do. I let the messy parts hang because I

00:04:18.320 think that that's where you learn the most. Here you are incredibly successful. I would say an

00:04:24.320 introvert. Are you an introvert? I am an introvert. And you know that only because we're neighbors.

00:04:28.280 Okay. Yeah. But yet you kind of are living your life out loud on social and you're an incredibly

00:04:34.260 successful entrepreneur on top of it. Right. I think that would surprise people about you.

00:04:38.360 I guess. I feel like a lot, I feel like a lot of people are introverts that put themselves in

00:04:43.120 these roles and maybe it's their way of being able to be social is like doing the things that

00:04:49.500 they're more comfortable with. And I'm not sure. I don't know why I'm like this.

00:04:53.940 Is that you leaning into your fear?

00:04:55.340 Right? I don't know. I don't know either.

00:04:58.280 Oh, this is going to be like therapy for the two of us.

00:05:00.120 I agree that I don't have the answer, but like when I have to go to work dinners,

00:05:04.000 I really dread them. I try to ask MK, I try to cancel every single thing that I do.

00:05:08.360 but I feel like I always go and it's good that I went. And I, as long as it's framed in a work

00:05:15.100 context, I have an easier time doing things. If it's framed in a personal context, it's harder,

00:05:20.320 harder for you, but like work, you're like, no, I have to go. Yeah. I have to go. Yeah.

00:05:23.380 So what is the drive to work for you?

00:05:28.320 I don't know where my drive comes from. Oh, this is therapy. I don't know where my drive comes from.

00:05:32.760 is it, is it undiagnosed ADHD? That's my new theory about myself. It's just a bottomless

00:05:39.080 hole of like accomplishment that you just can't ever get to. Maybe I think so. I thought that

00:05:44.320 was like me not being able to sit still and like getting in all my report cards and I needed to

00:05:48.040 sit still. No, no, no. Yeah. You're the girl who didn't sit still. I didn't sit still either. And

00:05:51.880 we're not sitting still now. And I think, I think that that, that might be it. The thing that's

00:05:56.900 interesting about you is that we're, you're definitely younger than me. Um, I don't even

00:06:02.300 know how much younger than me, but you're definitely younger than me. Okay. I'm 56 for

00:06:05.940 the record. Cause you know, we're messy and we let it all hang. So first of all, like you're

00:06:09.640 known for body positivity, by the way, in the era of Ozempic, which we're going to have to talk

00:06:13.960 about cause I find it all very confusing. Um, but you basically moved here from Milwaukee and

00:06:19.740 we're going back. Well, I mean, I read that you wanted a job in fashion and I mean, talk about

00:06:25.700 a brutal industry in terms of body positivity, but you were like, no, I'm going to go there.

00:06:30.440 And then you just kept calling and convinced Chanel to hire you. Like, I just want to know,

00:06:35.220 like, walk us through that. Oh, I, yeah. So I, I grew up in Milwaukee and I went to

00:06:40.380 University of Wisconsin, Madison, which is just Madison for people who, yeah. And I did, I,

00:06:47.260 I wanted to study fashion. I wanted to come to New York. I had that big dream.

00:06:51.020 uh I don't know I was drawn to it why was I drawn to it I was the girl who had like the

00:06:57.140 like Gucci runway models taped up all over her bedroom and I just loved fashion and I and I

00:07:02.980 wanted to be a plus size model I knew I couldn't be a straight size model I made my mom didn't you

00:07:07.720 watch Devil Wears Prada and think to yourself like oh that's maybe not going to be so good for me

00:07:11.620 I think that I think that a part of me and I've talked about this a lot in therapy um or here and

00:07:17.400 here both places um that I think I just wanted to prove that I could do something that uh maybe

00:07:25.120 didn't want me are we realizing this right now okay you know what I think this will have paid

00:07:30.480 for itself like in some way yes okay so you were like no I'm gonna prove them wrong yeah I wanted

00:07:35.340 to prove them wrong because I think that I wanted to have the style and the lifestyle um and then

00:07:41.460 was there a show that influenced you like Ally McBeal or Sex in the City I didn't even watch

00:07:45.760 Sex and the City because we didn't have HBO. I'm old. As I said, I'm 44. So I'm, I'm saying like,

00:07:51.580 I'm older than you, but my timeline doesn't line up with the true like millennial timeline because

00:07:56.860 I'm an elder millennial right on the cusp. Okay. So you did not watch Sex and the City or Allie

00:08:02.000 McBeal. That's what I mean. And I didn't watch Allie McBeal. I think, what did I, why? Seinfeld?

00:08:07.100 Is that what brought me here? I'm really unclear. Okay. I watched Sex and the City in college

00:08:12.020 though. So you convince Chanel to hire you. And I, what I read in that story is, I mean, you know,

00:08:18.880 I was up at two in the morning Googling you, um, is that you were relentless. Yes. Like you didn't

00:08:24.340 take no for an answer. I did not take no for an answer. And I flew to New York for an intern,

00:08:28.360 an intern interview, which I'm not sure anyone has ever flown anywhere. But you got the, you had an

00:08:33.240 interview. I had an interview because I kept following up with them like twice a week. I'd be

00:08:37.660 like, can you imagine an intern, a random intern emailing twice a week being like, can I, can I

00:08:43.060 come in? Cause I said, I tell my daughter, like, you have to let people know you really want the

00:08:47.860 job. And yet I find her generation or maybe just people in general, they're so worried about how

00:08:52.660 people are going to view them that they actually don't go for the thing that they need to go for.

00:08:57.120 That existed at that time. Also. I just think that certain people don't care. You don't care

00:09:01.440 about making yourself look needy or, or, uh, desperate or whatever the things are that was

00:09:06.460 about. Cause I wanted that job. But so you were willing to be embarrassing to get the job. And

00:09:11.120 I'm still willing to be embarrassing about everything I think. And that's the difference

00:09:15.240 is that most people are not willing to be embarrassing. My husband said to me the other

00:09:18.920 day, I think you have like a lack of self-awareness, which I think is what that might be.

00:09:23.140 But I think I have the same, I think I have the same thing is I think we actually are self-aware.

00:09:27.680 We just don't care. Yeah. I'm able to put it aside. Like good thing I wasn't too concerned

00:09:32.100 about being cool. Cause I so was not, um, you should have seen me in bowling. I was a really

00:09:36.180 terrible bowler. Um, okay. So you get the job at Chanel, then you're at Dolce & Gabbana. And

00:09:40.960 somehow you decide, I read this story where you sort of found out that you were being let go.

00:09:46.000 Yeah. I got, I got the marketing director called my desk and said, I think, I think we can get rid

00:09:51.180 of Katie. I'm not sure we have much use for her anymore. And I was like, Oh, hi. You're like, 0.99

00:09:56.420 this is Katie. Yeah. You're actually letting me know. And then she was like, I'm so sorry. I

00:10:00.780 meant to call the other Katie and, uh, so many Katie's in the eighties, but, um, yeah, so I got,

00:10:06.700 I got, I got let go, not in a bad way there, but that was funny. And Dolce & Gabbana, the president

00:10:12.700 of Dolce had to tell the head of PR to talk to me and tell me that I could not wear Uggs and juicy

00:10:20.380 mini skirts to Dolce & Gabbana for work. And that was like a big fashion lesson for me.

00:10:25.700 Because I thought I was coming in at the height of like Y2K fashion, which I was, but not

00:10:30.960 at Dolce and Kibana.

00:10:32.500 Not Dolce level.

00:10:33.460 Yes, I know.

00:10:34.240 Okay.

00:10:34.560 So then what made you decide not to take another job, but to start your own thing?

00:10:38.880 I took another job at a small PR agency and that was just like the next job I got.

00:10:45.120 And it was interesting to learn how an agency worked.

00:10:48.620 But again, I found that the people were really hard.

00:10:52.680 The business was great.

00:10:53.700 I really liked that part of it, telling people stories, getting people attention on their

00:10:57.120 businesses.

00:10:57.800 I did not like the people aspect.

00:11:00.200 How did you pivot to your own thing?

00:11:01.900 I started working with Bobby Brown, the makeup artist.

00:11:04.680 Her brother-in-law knew me from something and I got hired there to do like freelance

00:11:09.420 stuff.

00:11:10.060 And then while I was there, I had time to say, you know what?

00:11:12.620 I really like doing PR.

00:11:13.960 I don't want to work with any of these people.

00:11:16.500 I would like to start my own thing.

00:11:19.020 Let me see if I can get some clients.

00:11:20.200 So while I was working at Bobby, I started pitching.

00:11:22.280 like I would like go to trade shows. I would like look online. I'd be like, what, who I'd go into

00:11:26.860 stores and be like, what are these designers? And just start cold calling people. And so I built a

00:11:30.920 client roster, left Bobby Brown and then started my own thing. What made you like, are your parents

00:11:35.980 entrepreneurs? My dad's an entrepreneur. So there has to be something that made you say, you know

00:11:40.080 what? The thing that made me say it is that I wanted to be able to go get, this is what I always

00:11:44.960 used to say. I wanted to be able to go get a cappuccino at three in the afternoon and not have

00:11:48.220 to tell anyone just as opposed to get it for somebody else. Yeah. Well, get it for someone

00:11:52.120 out. Right. Or like have to like clock in and out. And I just wanted to be in charge of my own

00:11:56.200 schedule. Working for yourself doesn't mean that you work less. You work more. You work more. Yeah.

00:12:00.720 But I wanted to be in control of my own schedule. Okay. So you start this agency. It's called Tinder.

00:12:06.200 It was before the dating. It was called cast PR. And then I changed, which is just my initials.

00:12:11.380 And then I changed it to Tinder. I got my logo done. I got everything done. And about a year

00:12:15.660 later, my assistant at the time was like, there's a new dating app called Tinder. Like, have you

00:12:21.600 seen it? And I was like, no, it's probably not going to last. No one's going to hear about it.

00:12:25.600 And then a year or so later, I ended up selling my business name to Tinder, the dating app.

00:12:32.560 Did you get a lot of money for that?

00:12:33.420 No, I got some money.

00:12:34.720 Oh, you should have held out.

00:12:35.660 I know. I got some money. They like, didn't really even care about buying it, but I feel

00:12:39.760 like they were like, all right.

00:12:40.120 Okay. Well, at least you got something.

00:12:41.040 Yeah. Yes.

00:12:41.800 Okay. So then what happens?

00:12:44.060 And by the way, they knew about me because I was getting emails from people who couldn't find matches on Tinder who were like, please help me.

00:12:51.200 Like, I'm trying.

00:12:52.400 Like, I just want someone to, like, be friends with.

00:12:54.540 Like, all the things.

00:12:55.680 They should have really paid you.

00:12:56.700 But okay.

00:12:57.060 So then what happens?

00:12:59.140 So then I continue to do PR, but I had rescued two dogs at the time.

00:13:07.020 Did you grow up with lots of animals?

00:13:08.880 No, I didn't grow up with any.

00:13:10.120 This is why I'm an animal hoarder because I wasn't allowed to have a dog.

00:13:13.460 um so i had gotten my second rescue king charles spaniel her name was toast my first one was muppet

00:13:19.180 and she was a very special dog and i i knew that i could tell like that she just had a special

00:13:25.720 personality her tongue was out she would let me like dress her up pose or do anything and i was

00:13:29.900 like i'm gonna make my dog famous because it was right in the beginning of dot i know your face 0.66

00:13:35.260 right no i'm i tried to find a picture of her dressed for the met gala oh she never went to

00:13:41.800 them at gala but she sort of dressed like for an event yeah well she got married on real housewives

00:13:45.920 at the high she had a wedding at the highland hotel bravo yeah nice she had a wedding at the

00:13:50.700 highland hotel like in the big room i might need to find pictures of them oh it's it was beautiful

00:13:55.200 she wore like a 75 000 diamond necklace and she had a marquesa custom dress she was martha stewart

00:14:03.420 wedding like planned the whole thing because of darcy miller she was our fairy godmother um anyway 0.89

00:14:08.620 So we had, we had that big wedding with toast, but before that, um, I saw that dogs were

00:14:14.440 becoming popular on like Instagram in a way that was different.

00:14:18.680 It was more like a business.

00:14:20.620 And I was like, I'm going to apply my PR skills and make my dog famous.

00:14:24.100 So I started like pitching her out, bringing her into like brand offices and.

00:14:29.560 This is why you were running your business.

00:14:31.280 So you're like trying to work on client stuff and then also being like, I'm going to make

00:14:35.640 my dog famous.

00:14:36.340 Yes.

00:14:36.780 Yes.

00:14:37.060 And then when that started to get lopsided and I started to get way too much Toast work, I started to cut back my PR business and then ultimately ended it.

00:14:45.640 Okay, so this is an interesting thing about you because I also would say, as I sort of read through your background, that like opportunities show up, but you recognize the opportunity when it shows up.

00:14:59.300 Do you know what I mean?

00:14:59.720 It's like these two things converge.

00:15:01.540 Toast takes off and you don't say, oh, you know what?

00:15:03.620 I should somehow flip this and go become Anna Wintour.

00:15:06.620 Like, you know, you're not set on some way.

00:15:09.280 You see that opportunity.

00:15:10.380 You're like, wait, this is a sign.

00:15:12.280 Yes, yes.

00:15:12.880 That's what Ina Garten said in her book.

00:15:15.200 She said, be ready when the luck comes.

00:15:17.160 Cause I don't know that that's, yeah, it all lines up.

00:15:20.060 It has to be luck.

00:15:20.720 And yes, I recognize an opportunity because you can feel if something is working and you

00:15:25.600 can feel, and like, you know, when you're going to trust your gut.

00:15:28.140 Yes.

00:15:28.960 I always trust my gut, even though people are always telling me I'm wrong.

00:15:32.620 It's so interesting because I was recounting the story that I read about you.

00:15:36.540 And I was remembering that in college, people used to say to me, you should go into PR because I would throw parties at nightclubs and never for money, of course, because I wasn't focused on that.

00:15:44.660 I'm not sure why.

00:15:45.920 And people would be like, you should go into PR.

00:15:47.320 And I'd be like, what do you mean? 0.99

00:15:48.920 Are you saying like I'm a dumb party girl? 0.98

00:15:50.900 Like I didn't understand that that was a sign. 0.93

00:15:54.640 Well, PR gets a really bad rep.

00:15:56.060 I just want to say this for all the publicists out there. 0.99

00:15:57.800 Or you get a really bad rap as being kind of like a, you know, a dumb girl, PR girl. 0.96

00:16:02.820 It's like a very misogynistic point of view, but publicists make the world go round. 0.93

00:16:07.560 By the way, I now say to people all the time that I think that is the best job.

00:16:11.600 And so that's kind of an interesting point you make, because I would say to you that

00:16:16.180 I have met many PR people who've ascended the ranks because of the proximity that being

00:16:21.100 in PR affords you, right?

00:16:22.920 So they work for Jack Welch or they work for somebody really senior.

00:16:26.080 And so that relationship allows them lots of visibility, but also the relationship.

00:16:30.860 Right.

00:16:31.180 And I would tell a lot of people now that they should really have gone into corporate

00:16:34.580 communications or publicity or PR, but it was, my point was more less about that.

00:16:39.200 That's not a good job, but my own lack of imagination and having seen that as a sign.

00:16:44.180 Yeah.

00:16:45.280 But you did see it as a sign.

00:16:46.720 You were like toast.

00:16:47.520 I'm leaning in.

00:16:47.940 I was like, we're going to do this.

00:16:48.800 There were like three famous dogs at the time.

00:16:50.660 And I was like, we're going, we're going for it.

00:16:52.560 And I'm crazy like that.

00:16:53.860 Like, I don't have small dreams.

00:16:55.580 I have big dreams. So I'm like, we're going to do, we're going to do a big, we're going to get

00:16:59.920 her on the morning shows. We're going to, she wrote a book. Yeah. Like she wrote a book. She

00:17:05.000 did. Yeah. Harper Collins, real publisher, not self-published. And, um, so what makes you dream

00:17:11.760 big? Uh, I, it's just how my brain works. Is that like, what does that mean? I don't know. It's just,

00:17:18.000 it's, it's a difference I find in my brain where someone says, um, I'm going to, I'm going to do

00:17:24.100 this. And maybe they, uh, they have a lot more reality probably in their point of view or their,

00:17:30.520 their, their dreams have more reality. They're grounded in reality. I'm not grounded in reality

00:17:34.620 at all. What's your dream now? What's your big dream now? Oh, we're breaking news right here.

00:17:41.220 I don't know. My big dream right now is to get my, my novel turned into a TV show.

00:17:47.840 Yes. Yeah. Who's going to play you? No one. I don't know. It's probably going to be a new

00:17:52.380 opportunity for like a new person who needs to break into hollywood that's my dream is to have 1.00

00:17:57.360 like recognizable cast around her but then she's a breakout star because we need more body diversity

00:18:03.920 in hollywood and i feel like that's a really exciting role to get someone into okay so see

00:18:08.060 you're putting your big dream out there that's like i'm in like a vision boarding session but

00:18:11.660 i and you know what i don't even have a vision board and i don't right but people are like oh

00:18:15.560 no i did this one i keep thinking should we have that like it feels like at the top of the year

00:18:19.240 everyone's like making a whole thing for what they want that for the year. And I don't, I don't do

00:18:23.500 that. Imagine how powerful we'd be if we did. I also never had a plan. Yeah. I never had a three

00:18:28.400 year plan or a five year plan. So vision boards, I'm like, wait, what? Same. I don't have, I have,

00:18:32.620 I have like a feeling, but people, people hustle. Oh, and I have hustle too, but you have to have

00:18:38.620 both because you can have a feeling, but if you don't have hustle, then no, I said you can vision

00:18:43.620 from your bedroom, but that's not going to actually show up. Okay. So, um, now toast takes

00:18:48.260 off and where do you come into the picture? Cause all of a sudden then toast moves to the side and

00:18:54.000 you become the center. We were on a photo shoot for NARS. Um, of course. Yeah. For toast. We were

00:19:00.420 doing like shots of like blush on her for like super cute. And the editors who are working on

00:19:06.180 it, um, I pitched myself because you know, PR mindset. And I just, I was like, you know what,

00:19:11.860 they should do a story on me. Okay. I, I love this. I think it's the fear of rejection. Maybe

00:19:18.760 that people think what's the worst that's going to happen. They're going to say, no,

00:19:22.180 I don't know. I'll ask anyone any, like anything. I don't know. I'm a very good wing man or wing

00:19:27.360 girl. Right. Cause you know what? I have no qualms. You want to meet somebody? I'm your

00:19:32.520 person. Let's go. But people get scared of us when they're, when we're their wing people,

00:19:36.500 because we don't care. We're like, what's up? Do you think that guy's cute? I know. I'm not good

00:19:40.240 I did it for myself, but for you, I'd be really good.

00:19:42.300 No, for you, I'd do anything.

00:19:42.820 Like, I'm like, hmm, who do we know who could make that movie?

00:19:45.280 Same, same.

00:19:46.000 I'm the same way.

00:19:47.180 Okay.

00:19:47.620 Yeah.

00:19:47.840 So then you pitch yourself. 1.00

00:19:49.340 I said, you should do a story on me because there's just no coverage of, like, curvy girls in fashion right now.

00:19:54.940 I think the year was 2014. 0.92

00:19:58.960 And they were like, okay, let's do a story on you.

00:20:01.040 It was from Man Repeller.

00:20:01.860 Um, and I think the, the thing that happened there is my brain broke open when I saw the

00:20:08.540 comments from women saying that, no, they were the opposite.

00:20:13.260 They were like, I've never seen my body on a fashion blog again.

00:20:17.100 It's 2014.

00:20:17.760 So it's like, Oh, so here's your next sign.

00:20:19.900 Yes.

00:20:20.340 They're just like, I, I, I, I love like opening up this page and being able to see myself

00:20:26.500 like, wow, these shopping tips are so great.

00:20:28.580 so I feel like um that was a big sign for me okay so you the opportunity shows up yeah in the sense

00:20:35.920 that you see the comments and they're positive I'm like this is why I love representation matters

00:20:39.860 yes and so okay so you pivot to thinking so I was like I really was deeply uncomfortable with

00:20:46.180 being in front of the camera you know I'm in PR and behind the scenes I'm doing dog stuff I can

00:20:50.000 put everything on toast and now it's time for me to get in front of the camera and that was so

00:20:53.820 awkward. But you pitched yourself. I know, but I, I know it, but like, I mean, that first photo

00:20:59.320 shoot, I was near tears, just like so embarrassed. And yet you pitched yourself. I'm just pointing

00:21:05.040 it out. Yes. I put myself there, but I was so nervous. And so it happens. There's amazing

00:21:11.600 comments. And what happens to you? Um, I had breakfast with the editor at Glamour,

00:21:18.140 Sophia Chabot at the time. And she said, I don't think you're going to be a publicist in a year.

00:21:23.500 I think you're going to be doing this full time. And, and I was like, okay, like, let's see. I

00:21:27.780 remember her saying that to me. And then that, and then as soon as I put it up online, the 12-ish

00:21:32.880 style, because I had fluctuated maybe a size 12, 14. 12-ish already exist or? Nope. So I started

00:21:38.400 the 12-ish style. It was a blog. Yeah. My other friend was like, just start an Instagram, start

00:21:42.800 a blog, just do it. So I just did it. And, uh, it, it took off because we needed someone in the space

00:21:50.760 who was there to like help the big girls get dressed. 1.00

00:21:54.500 So representation matters. 1.00

00:21:57.380 You dream big and you just go for it.

00:22:00.220 Yes.

00:22:00.440 In the face of fear.

00:22:01.780 Oh, yes.

00:22:02.460 Yeah.

00:22:02.760 I am scared, but like you just go.

00:22:05.600 But so what, how do you have the ability

00:22:08.280 to put that fear aside?

00:22:10.200 I think I don't, I think fear is less strong than regret.

00:22:15.200 And I don't want to regret anything.

00:22:17.060 I don't want to leave an opportunity on the table

00:22:19.680 because I got nervous. So even though you get anxious, you get nervous, you get fearful,

00:22:23.660 you have a way. Yeah. And, but what is the way, like, do you meditate? Do you go for a jog? Like,

00:22:28.460 do you have a trick? Is there like a CBT trick? No, I just go. I just do it. You just go. I just

00:22:34.120 do it. Yeah. Yes. Where does mega babe show up in this journey? So I I'm doing the body acceptance

00:22:39.440 work, which wasn't, I didn't even start off doing body acceptance work. I just realized after about

00:22:44.420 a year of talking to women of all sizes who were like, I'm so inspired that you were a tank top 0.98

00:22:49.020 that women's body image is so fucked up and that every woman of every size doesn't like her body 0.98

00:22:54.560 and we need to do something about that. So that was my next phase as I was like, uh, I'm, I feel 0.99

00:23:00.780 like I'm, I feel like the lights just got turned on and I'm realizing that, um, women have been 0.99

00:23:06.360 tricked into focusing on their body size and their body shape and feeling that it's wrong, no matter 0.90

00:23:13.000 if you're thin or big or whatever. So I figured, uh, I needed to do something about that. And so

00:23:18.680 that was my next phase of this. Did you also feel a sense of responsibility? Cause what you

00:23:23.600 unlocked now became bigger than you. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I wanted, I wanted to help women. So that

00:23:30.020 became my, that became like, it shifted from like dog rescue, helping small businesses. And now it's

00:23:35.960 like, Oh, we need help. Women need the help. And I feel like I just realized that we're in like a 1.00

00:23:40.340 huge con where you're supposed to stay small and feel bad about yourself. Um, but that is only

00:23:45.760 because that, that keeps you away from your power. So let me, let me work on that. So that's

00:23:51.320 what I, I pivoted to. And then as I was doing that, something kept coming up and it was chafe.

00:23:57.400 It was thigh chafe. And I talked to my followers. What is that? Cause some people may have no idea

00:24:01.340 what you're talking about. I know all the thigh gaps out there may not understand.

00:24:05.460 Okay. Well, you're also going to have to describe what a thigh gap is because somebody could be

00:24:08.480 listening who is not familiar with fashion terms. You're correct. So in the year 2016,

00:24:14.140 which is when I started talking about this to myself um there there's a term called thigh gap

00:24:21.600 where your thighs don't touch and that's the goal that's the goal is to have your body goal

00:24:26.320 that's the like the media goal is like it's like how to get a thigh gap by summer like that so how 0.92

00:24:32.900 to have your legs not touch which we know that like your legs touch no matter what your size if 0.97

00:24:38.500 you have like certain shaped hips, whatever, it's a whole thing. You're human, your thighs touch,

00:24:44.040 okay. Like, um, so I started every spring, I would get these messages from people who followed me

00:24:50.640 being like, what do you use for thigh chafed? Do you use shorts underneath? Do you use a chafe

00:24:54.180 stick? Like, what is it? And the only things in the market every year were from gross companies

00:24:59.000 that worked with, or that targeted runners or men, um, really embarrassing names, D's nuts,

00:25:05.760 Dee's nuts for her.

00:25:06.900 What is that?

00:25:07.440 I know.

00:25:07.740 That's a terrible, terrible name.

00:25:09.000 This is what's out there.

00:25:10.020 Squirrel nuts.

00:25:11.160 It's like how to make yourself feel worse.

00:25:12.640 Yes.

00:25:13.180 It's how, like, who wants to pull that out?

00:25:15.300 Nobody.

00:25:15.820 No.

00:25:16.320 So I just kept waiting for someone to make a chafe stick that we could be proud of.

00:25:21.560 And no one was doing it.

00:25:22.700 And then that was, I guess, we're discovering that's my next sign.

00:25:26.320 That's your thing.

00:25:26.880 Yes.

00:25:27.040 All these signs show up for you.

00:25:28.420 Well, because I'm like, if no one's going to do this, I guess I'm going to do this.

00:25:31.600 No, that's not what most people think.

00:25:32.900 But, okay, that's definitely what Katie Storino thinks.

00:25:35.020 I guess that is how I think.

00:25:37.440 And you're like, no fear.

00:25:39.640 I'm just going to go do it.

00:25:40.420 What do I know about making a product?

00:25:41.920 My very cautious and very conservative, my sister and my best friend from Camp Kate,

00:25:49.240 they have a very different brain and mode than I have.

00:25:53.660 But they're your partners.

00:25:54.460 They're my business partners.

00:25:55.440 So I was like, let's do this.

00:25:57.480 Neither of them had ever chafed.

00:25:59.160 They were like, we don't know.

00:26:00.440 If you think this is a thing, let's go for it.

00:26:02.560 You seem to have done okay with the dog thing and your business.

00:26:05.020 to follow you. I like that. Uh, and, and so we launched, um, we launched thigh rescue.

00:26:11.860 I would say it took us probably like seven months to get the product from like the lab to the,

00:26:18.700 the lab to our website. And what was interesting is that when I started telling people about that,

00:26:24.240 we were going to launch a chafe stick. Um, I started hearing a lot of nose. Uh, we met with

00:26:29.560 manufacturers who said it wasn't going to be a big enough business for them to like even make

00:26:33.540 the minimum for us. We met with one guy who said, if we didn't put an anti-cellulite product in the

00:26:40.400 stick, that women wouldn't buy it. They've all been proven wrong because I see the ads on every

00:26:46.000 taxi that I take in New York City. Thank you. Yes. Right. And Target and Walmart. Yes. Target,

00:26:50.580 Walmart, Ulta. This is not a small company. I just want to explain. I mean, it is small compared

00:26:54.700 to the category. That's how I always say it. What category? You created a category. I mean,

00:26:59.320 We created a category, but we sell in the deodorant aisle of Target where everyone else is like a billion dollar conglomerate.

00:27:05.160 Like we're the only self-funded.

00:27:06.520 Is that the sign that we're seeing next?

00:27:08.200 What do you mean?

00:27:08.900 I just mean a billion dollar company.

00:27:11.020 Okay.

00:27:11.300 I'm sorry.

00:27:11.560 I'm putting it out there because I mean, we dream big.

00:27:13.500 I've been putting it out there since we launched my parents' garage.

00:27:16.280 I stood there literally like we pushed go on the website and I was like, is P&G at the door yet?

00:27:21.780 Like I've just been waiting.

00:27:23.380 But we launched, we had to make a minimum of I think 10,000 units of each product.

00:27:28.460 that's not a small amount of product put it in my parents garage and we thought is anyone going to

00:27:33.080 buy this I have no idea um we made a product called bust dust which is a telk free powder that

00:27:38.920 you can spray in your bra for boob sweat or like in your unders wherever you're sweating everyone

00:27:43.000 was like are we like are we just going to hold these for the next two years until they expire

00:27:47.820 at Halloween like we do here in Chelsea exactly um and we had a segment on the today show about

00:27:54.820 three weeks after we launched and we sold out of every product we made. We launched in June. We

00:27:59.900 sold everything out by after July 4th weekend. I mean, if this isn't an inspiring story of like,

00:28:05.080 just go do shit, I don't know what it is. Thank you. Yeah. So I think what's interesting is that 0.98

00:28:10.000 we have faced issues from everyone from retailers to media to customer. I mean, people who see our

00:28:18.280 ads who don't understand what we make and think it's vulgar. Um, we just made a new TV ad. And

00:28:24.980 the reason I wanted to make the TV ad the way that I did, I wanted it to resemble the way that

00:28:30.380 ShamWow or the pillow guy, those really annoying commercials you see that stick in your head. I

00:28:36.260 wanted to make one of those. So I made this like. Such a PR person. Okay. You can't stop it. It's

00:28:43.420 just how you're wired. I understand. Um, and I wanted to, I wanted to put something out there

00:28:49.000 that people would really remember. And it's just me. And I call it throwing a leg up. It's me

00:28:53.140 with my foot up on a wall or wherever. And I'm just applying my thigh rescue.

00:28:57.500 Well, um, we're running it on E we're running it on Bravo. We're running it on all these different

00:29:03.980 networks. Um, but we got a message from Hallmark that it did not meet their standards because it

00:29:08.980 was not family. Yes. Not family friendly, which I don't, which I really don't understand what is

00:29:14.920 not family friendly about stopping thigh chafe. Let's talk about the fact that you work with

00:29:20.500 your sister and best friend. Yes. And I have started working with my husband that probably

00:29:24.840 like starting in COVID, you know, working with your family and friends can be messy.

00:29:28.980 Are you going to give us a messy part of that story? It's the messiest thing you can do. I think

00:29:32.700 is work with your family and friends. And also amazing. And I think the difference is when

00:29:37.580 you're working with, I don't know how it is to work with your spouse. Like John and I work

00:29:41.440 together. He does all my contract work and we, we have never had an issue. Um, but working day in

00:29:47.840 and day out with my sister, I can fight with her and call her a fucking idiot and hang up the phone, 1.00

00:29:53.140 which I don't ever hang up the phone, but I mean, I can just call her names. And then two seconds 1.00

00:29:56.540 later, we're back on the phone and be like, what are you doing? Okay. But I mean, it goes deep.

00:30:00.880 Yes. But I'm saying like, I think there's a freedom when you're working with family,

00:30:04.040 because you know that you, you can say what you really feel and you can move on. Now you can't

00:30:08.960 do that too much in front of employees. Like as we've grown the team, I've had to scale back my

00:30:13.740 like open conversations in front of people. I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable,

00:30:18.260 you know? Um, and then working with a friend is also hard because we spend so much time together

00:30:24.140 during the week on work that you got to put effort in to keep the social part of your friendship

00:30:29.380 alive. Which is hard. Yeah. That's true with like a partner too. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I agree. Yes. You

00:30:34.700 know, I have tried to hire a lot of friends over the years and I've been declined a lot because I

00:30:39.440 think. Well, not everybody's up for that. I know. I think people don't, I think people are cautious

00:30:42.820 of that. We have no boundaries. We have no boundaries. But there's a lot of therapy to be

00:30:46.600 unbucked here. No, no, no. I know. I know. Okay. So you have a, I mean, it's the truth. Okay. We're

00:30:52.720 going to talk about the book that I have not had a chance to read. And you know, that makes me

00:30:55.920 really anxious. So thank you for not giving me the book earlier. I'm going to hold that against

00:31:00.660 you for a long time. Um, you wrote this book that's coming out in June. I've noticed that

00:31:05.080 you're giving a lot of things away to get people to buy books because by the way, writing a book

00:31:09.060 is hard, but Oh my God, getting people to buy pre-order a book. It's like a nightmare. I think

00:31:14.680 something, I'm going to talk about my book, but I want to talk about the book process and pop

00:31:18.800 some bubbles out there for anyone who's like, has a fantasy of writing a novel and being like,

00:31:23.920 You only do tough things.

00:31:25.120 I mean, I'm doing a tough thing.

00:31:26.400 Let me just say, doing a podcast is really, really hard.

00:31:29.220 Doing a podcast is really hard.

00:31:30.680 I did it for four years, and it's really hard.

00:31:33.220 It is.

00:31:33.480 It's really hard.

00:31:33.940 Yes.

00:31:34.360 I don't know why everybody keeps thinking like you're just doing a Zoom in your bedroom.

00:31:37.100 No, it's not.

00:31:37.760 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:31:38.040 I know that, but that's how they feel about influencers as well.

00:31:40.660 It's so much work.

00:31:41.980 But I always say in the back of my head, I could always be doing something else, something worse.

00:31:47.320 Okay, we're coming back to your book.

00:31:48.500 Okay.

00:31:48.840 Bring us back.

00:31:50.580 Sunny Side Up.

00:31:51.240 It's a book that I have wanted to write since I got divorced.

00:31:54.460 It's the rom-com that I wanted and I needed when I got divorced.

00:31:58.960 It's about a woman who- 1.00

00:32:00.280 No, sorry.

00:32:00.580 I read, you said, I wanted to write a revenge book, but I decided over time, I'm not writing

00:32:05.260 a revenge book.

00:32:05.820 I'm writing a rom-com.

00:32:06.540 Did I say that?

00:32:07.420 Yeah.

00:32:07.880 I found that somewhere online because I didn't make that up myself.

00:32:10.480 Okay.

00:32:10.820 I don't know where I said it, but wow, that's true.

00:32:13.100 Here's the thing about the internet.

00:32:14.460 It all follows you.

00:32:16.180 No, I did.

00:32:16.800 I think when I, cause I think when I first got divorced, I was like one day I'm going

00:32:20.200 to write this.

00:32:21.500 Like, yeah, let's just be honest.

00:32:22.900 Can I just say, I don't want to like make you feel like you're being on the spot because

00:32:26.140 I'm going to say like when people have done me wrong and I don't know the ins and outs

00:32:29.220 of your situation, I also have those thoughts.

00:32:31.800 We're human, but we don't always act on them.

00:32:34.140 It's like the letter you write and you burn.

00:32:35.940 That's exactly it.

00:32:36.920 And this book is not the letter I wrote and published.

00:32:40.520 This is the, I mean, I'm saying like didn't burn and just put it in a book.

00:32:44.160 No, I, I, I ended up writing the story I needed, you know, how long did it take you to have

00:32:50.860 that separation to be able to do that?

00:32:52.600 Uh, nine years.

00:32:55.980 Okay.

00:32:56.460 It was a long time.

00:32:57.040 Yeah.

00:32:57.360 But also I actually think that having processed all that and gotten to a place where you can

00:33:02.060 do this, you're going to be able to impact a lot more people.

00:33:04.160 Oh, I couldn't have, I couldn't have like gone on a media tour with this book like two

00:33:08.220 years out.

00:33:08.720 Right after?

00:33:08.880 Yeah.

00:33:09.260 Because you're, you're so raw and you don't even know how raw you are.

00:33:12.420 I barely know how I was like yesterday.

00:33:15.260 Okay. 0.95

00:33:15.720 The book is about a woman named Sunny Green and she gets divorced at 35 and thinks her life is over. 0.99

00:33:21.640 She ends up gaining a lot of weight. 0.99

00:33:23.420 Her body's changed.

00:33:24.440 And, you know, New York is a hard place not to be thin.

00:33:28.840 I would think it'd be worse than L.A.

00:33:30.680 I don't know.

00:33:31.000 Actually, it's interesting.

00:33:32.240 It's different in L.A.

00:33:33.720 You can actually shop more plus than L.A.

00:33:35.560 That's a whole thing.

00:33:36.200 But this is so for the book. So she she decides that she's going to throw herself into work and she ends up launching a swimsuit line because she has a breakdown at Bergdorf's going on this vacation with her girlfriends. 0.72

00:33:48.580 She can't find a swimsuit that fits her. And so she's shopping is kind of the worst.

00:33:52.620 For everyone. That's what I'm saying. This is my whole point is that it's awful for everyone.

00:33:56.340 And so she ends up making a swimsuit line and maybe she figures out how to start dating and maybe she has two suitors and it's a lot of fun.

00:34:08.360 But what I did is I decided to bring the book to life and I made the swimsuits from the book.

00:34:15.980 I have a swim collab coming out.

00:34:18.560 Oh my God, when is that launching?

00:34:19.940 It's launching in June, the same time as the book.

00:34:23.300 And you can shop the suits from the book.

00:34:26.340 I love that. I mean, you're definitely a marketer at heart. Yes. Yes. What I think is interesting

00:34:32.720 about writing a book is that it's not, it's not just selling the book. You have to sell like,

00:34:38.620 how can I say this? It's not just selling the book to the publisher. You have to get people

00:34:43.440 to buy the book in pre-order. That's a huge sign of success. And it, and it basically dictates

00:34:49.400 whether or not people are going to put effort into promoting the book.

00:34:53.120 Yeah. Cause the business is so broken. It's so hard. So it's like, you don't,

00:34:57.180 you don't just write a book and then put it into the world. Like that doesn't exist

00:35:01.440 that I can see anymore. Okay. And so give us a little preview. Like, why should we read the

00:35:06.620 book? By the way, I did go on people magazine and there was an excerpt. So I did read a little bit.

00:35:10.860 Well, I think Sonny is, I hate to use this word inspiring cause it feels cheesy, but it is

00:35:15.520 Sonny is inspiring. It's funny. It's a sex in the city comment about it. Yes. It was,

00:35:20.940 someone said it was like a Carrie Bradshaw for the next generation. And God, did I meet Candace

00:35:25.100 Bushnell at, um, an event in Palm beach this year. And I, did you almost fall over? I did.

00:35:31.900 And I looked at her and I was like, Oh, someone said I'm like, I could barely even choke out my

00:35:36.720 own line of someone said I'm a next generation you. And she probably, she was just like, can

00:35:40.640 you get out of here? Yeah, I know. She's like, please, do you know how many girls say this to

00:35:44.120 me a day? Like, this is so, um, anyway. Uh, so yes, I, I think it is funny. It's inspirational.

00:35:50.040 it's an easy beach read and it's all about new york okay yeah which we both you're gonna really

00:35:55.100 you're gonna really love it because a lot of our block i'm not gonna be able to sleep again tonight

00:35:58.500 yes it's either because i'm doom scrolling and finding little you know excerpts about you or

00:36:02.960 i'm gonna be reading your book now you're gonna like it we need to talk about oprah great and we

00:36:08.160 need to talk about ozempic i mean i just feel like we need to talk about that because the two

00:36:12.060 live through all this moment of body positivity everyone's accepting of everything we're having

00:36:16.740 representation and then a zempic comes and like literally all the body positivity people are like

00:36:21.480 basically now getting a zempic because apparently being skinny is the thing again i think what's

00:36:25.940 really interesting is that i view it in a very careful way of this is uh this is you'd be the

00:36:31.980 person i know it there's this is a medication that is made for people who need it who who have

00:36:38.360 numbers that they need adjusting for the longevity of their health like that's what it was started

00:36:44.180 That's what it started for.

00:36:45.500 Now, the circus that has happened since then, that it's just like a shot for people who need to, who feel they need to lose 10 pounds and just want to fit into a dress.

00:36:54.160 That's where the toxic part comes in.

00:36:56.600 And I think that is, that is why it's been like demonized and it's so polarizing.

00:37:02.500 I wish that that part wasn't part of it.

00:37:05.400 I wish they were highlighting like the people's lives who have been saved because of the drug.

00:37:10.220 Yeah, because I mean, if you're diabetic and you need your numbers changed, it's a thing.

00:37:13.460 Yes.

00:37:13.700 And by the way, I mean, far be it for me to judge even people who are doing it otherwise.

00:37:18.080 But I did think it was interesting.

00:37:19.780 Yeah.

00:37:20.020 I mean, because, you know, I think to myself, like, I'm so not perfect.

00:37:22.180 So why am I going to judge you?

00:37:24.100 But you're generous.

00:37:25.580 But it's the truth.

00:37:26.440 Yeah.

00:37:26.780 I mean, you know, I mean, really, we're all just harder on ourselves.

00:37:29.480 At least I can say I can speak for myself.

00:37:31.600 I don't know.

00:37:32.000 I think that there's a responsibility that some people have in the public eye to not perpetuate like a terrible time when everyone had to be like heroin chic.

00:37:42.080 And I think that we're losing that in a lot of the people who are constantly photographed right now, the famous people.

00:37:49.060 Come to Oprah.

00:37:51.160 Yeah.

00:37:51.720 Because you were on the Oprah show.

00:37:53.060 Yes.

00:37:53.140 I mean, and you had a moment here about Candace Bushnell, whatever, right?

00:37:56.920 Yeah. 0.90

00:37:57.080 But Oprah.

00:37:58.080 Yeah.

00:37:58.560 I mean, I used to say like Oprah might be kind of like God.

00:38:00.820 I don't know.

00:38:01.280 That's what I said.

00:38:01.740 I said that to her.

00:38:02.940 Because I'm pretty sure it was like a thing.

00:38:04.580 Yeah, because she kind of is.

00:38:05.500 Like, I'm just like, who else is there?

00:38:07.160 I don't know.

00:38:07.660 Yeah. So I, um, they were doing a special on all the GLP one drugs, the Ozempic and all the other

00:38:15.020 drugs. And they had the CEO of Weight Watchers, a woman named Seema Sistani. She was on and she

00:38:21.580 got really close to apologizing for Weight Watchers stance on weight loss because the whole,

00:38:26.480 the nut here is that they're calling it, um, they're saying that obesity is something that

00:38:32.820 you have like in your brain, in your body, that your brain is different from the way that some

00:38:37.760 people's brains work. Okay. And that felt like a big unlock to hear. And she was like, basically

00:38:44.480 almost said, we're sorry for the decades of pushing willpower on people who couldn't,

00:38:51.280 who didn't have willpower and just saying, Hey, you should just eat less, move more. And like,

00:38:56.840 you're going to be fine. Uh, and I called that out and then she saw my video responded to me

00:39:02.840 without checking with lawyer. I always think that this is so cool. She didn't check with lawyer.

00:39:06.320 She just got on the internet and started talking. And that moment, that exchange we had where she

00:39:12.260 said, Katie, you know what? We are sorry. That was fucked up. Um, Oprah. I love that she was a

00:39:17.860 leader. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. And men don't respond like that. Men, male CEOs

00:39:23.060 don't respond like that.

00:39:23.900 You know what, women don't either sometimes. 1.00

00:39:25.080 That's fine.

00:39:25.960 I'm just saying, I don't want to take away from her credit

00:39:28.240 by just saying she was a woman

00:39:29.500 because the truth is we know tons of people

00:39:31.360 who would not have done that.

00:39:32.140 That's correct, you're right.

00:39:33.140 Like, that's a sign of leadership.

00:39:34.520 No, she's a special leader

00:39:35.420 and who's no longer with the company.

00:39:38.840 And we-

00:39:39.900 That feels like a cliffhanger.

00:39:41.160 Okay.

00:39:41.780 We organized this big special with Oprah

00:39:43.800 and I talked with her for eight minutes.

00:39:46.620 I mean, Oprah.

00:39:47.500 Yeah, it was a long time.

00:39:48.240 It's a long time.

00:39:48.580 I know.

00:39:49.300 And she said, and they did this special

00:39:51.720 because of this interaction.

00:39:53.060 So it was a three hour thing. And she was like, you started it all. Like say what you got to say.

00:39:57.880 It was meeting Oprah, um, was better than I thought it was in every single way.

00:40:03.480 Okay. So, you know, you, you're making me think about something, which is, um, I know you don't

00:40:07.960 have a vision board or a long-term plan like me, but do you have a clear sense of what your why is?

00:40:13.040 Like what drives you, your purpose? I do now. Yeah. What is that? Um, it's to help women.

00:40:19.280 Yeah. I just want to help women feel good about themselves. What do you think that's about?

00:40:23.060 Uh, after like the lights came on and I realized that women are just all sitting alone, feeling 1.00

00:40:27.520 bad about themselves because society told them to somewhere, many ways, many, many wears along

00:40:33.060 the line. So interesting. Right. And so did, did discovering that or leaning into that change your

00:40:39.300 life? Yes. Cause it's just like, everything is like my, you know, sunny side up. This is,

00:40:44.560 this is for women, like my mega babe, like it's for women to feel more comfortable. I made a

00:40:49.580 hemorrhoid cream. Cause I'm tired of, you know, women who give birth, they don't even know the 1.00

00:40:53.500 word hemorrhoid until suddenly you have a baby and you're like, what the, what is that? So I want 1.00

00:40:58.200 to bring these conversations to the front so we can all stop feeling so ashamed about normal things.

00:41:03.100 Even the thigh gap conversation that we had, like that's up until like 2017, you know, 0.99

00:41:11.140 you're still walking around being like, I don't have a thigh gap, like no shit. Like no one has 0.97

00:41:15.640 the thigh gap. So it's just these very few people and great. If you do, there's nothing wrong with

00:41:21.200 that. It's just, I feel as though we've been feeling bad alone and I'd like to feel better

00:41:26.780 together. I just want to ask again about one of the things that sort of came up earlier in our

00:41:32.320 conversations, which is, do you know when you're in the messy parts? No, I, the thing that I find

00:41:39.880 really interesting, especially when it comes to mega babe. Um, you know, I used to listen to a lot

00:41:45.720 of like entrepreneurial podcasts and I hated them and I stopped listening to them because it's

00:41:50.460 everyone just being like, I exited my company and I sold my company. And I'm like, no, I need to

00:41:54.940 know about the times when you're like crying on the floor or like you just got rejected for the

00:42:00.000 fifth time or like your manufacturer, like sent 20,000 units with the wrong label printed. Like

00:42:06.600 I want those moments because that's what every day is. It's hard for me, an entrepreneur. Oh my

00:42:12.640 God. And I think I used to think that if you got into Ulta or target or a big retailer that it was

00:42:19.060 game over, you were in, you got it. Like your business is made. And that was just really the

00:42:23.340 beginning. Um, and that's like where your issue, what is it? Mo money, more problems. Like you just

00:42:30.200 You keep having bigger issues and things that you think would not be a problem, you know, almost eight years into the business, like you still you run into the craziest things like are like tubes printed upside down or manufacturers running out of like one single ingredient.

00:42:50.140 And so what I'm saying is that like and you're always fighting for your shelf space.

00:42:53.420 It's not like you are.

00:42:54.180 It doesn't end.

00:42:55.060 It never ends.

00:42:56.140 How many years have you been doing Mega Babe?

00:42:57.800 It'll be eight in June.

00:42:58.640 Okay. And so you've stuck to it, which is a long time. It's not a short amount of time.

00:43:02.420 No.

00:43:02.920 And you listened to entrepreneurial podcasts and they didn't give you the advice you needed. So

00:43:07.200 what is the advice you would give to somebody who's listening, who wouldn't get it in those

00:43:11.460 kinds of places?

00:43:12.360 You never feel like you've made it. You never feel like that. Like, that's how I feel. I don't feel

00:43:17.560 that we've like achieved the, and I think, I think it's hard because I am always looking around at

00:43:24.880 competition. I'm always looking around at brands that are funded. I will repeat again that we

00:43:28.600 are self-funded. We have no outside money. We have no board. We have nothing like that.

00:43:33.240 And I look around at brands who are doing activations, like, you know, pop-up coffee

00:43:38.220 shops or a big massive mailers. And I'm like, look at them moving the marketing needle. And

00:43:43.760 then you find out a year later that they made no money and they closed. So I think it's hard,

00:43:50.500 especially in like the product industry, because you're always looking around. Well,

00:43:54.180 any industry, you're always looking around. And, um, I think what they don't show you

00:43:59.640 is important, which is that this is a mess. This whole business is a mess and it's all a mess.

00:44:06.100 Every, it's all a mess. And I think if people led more with the hard stuff, uh, you would,

00:44:12.620 I don't know, you'd have a lot more. Maybe just more forgiveness or empathy for yourself along

00:44:18.800 the journey or even your customers, like bringing your customers in on the journey.

00:44:22.780 All right.

00:44:23.280 So we're going to do rapid fire.

00:44:24.840 OK.

00:44:25.800 What is your favorite karaoke song or walk on music?

00:44:28.660 Oh, my God.

00:44:30.180 I have never been to karaoke and I would die of embarrassment.

00:44:35.560 OK.

00:44:35.880 Walk on music.

00:44:37.880 Also just terrified.

00:44:40.040 Yeah.

00:44:40.720 Music.

00:44:42.320 I'm not being short about this answer.

00:44:44.080 I'm sorry.

00:44:44.460 But like if you ask me to DJ at the party, put a song on the radio, like in front of a crowd, it's one of my things where I just I'll just jump out of the car.

00:44:51.660 like i just can't okay good to know yeah okay i i go with um girl on fire that's a great song

00:44:57.840 no and that's a great answer i just i literally i'll just die no i melt into the floor okay

00:45:03.000 amazing um what is the food you'd bring to a potluck in fact what is the food you brought

00:45:07.520 to the longest table oh my god obviously we we probably um i see johnny making a face which

00:45:13.720 means like did you not bring food to the potluck

00:45:15.700 we're you know what i think we went to billy's and picked up cupcakes okay that's good because

00:45:24.540 i also would not cook i would definitely do store yeah i mean i'm gonna go with it because i

00:45:29.180 it's close i didn't cook okay oh cook no no um alternative career if you weren't doing this

00:45:35.280 what would you be so glad you asked um a facial recognition specialist for the fbi i do love

00:45:40.980 those shows yeah that's why i don't understand when people don't ask for a lawyer when they

00:45:44.380 get arrested because I'm like, haven't you watched Law and Order? Because you are going in as an

00:45:48.060 innocent, nice person. And you're like, this is what I would do. I think about this all the time.

00:45:51.880 Watch more TV. No. Yeah. Okay. John's like, don't talk to anyone. Yeah, no, I get it. And I will

00:45:57.460 say my knowledge comes from television. What are you reading, listening or watching? I'm currently

00:46:02.960 listening to my own. I'm listening to my own book right now. I'm going to start the Mel Robbins,

00:46:08.020 let them theory book. My mom just listened to it and said, I need to listen to it. What would you

00:46:13.340 say people would be surprised to learn about you? I'm as much of a curmudgeon as I am. Cause I think

00:46:18.180 I keep it pretty positive online. You know, if I don't like a movie and I don't like, if I don't

00:46:21.980 like a restaurant, a movie, something, I don't really put negative opinions out online unless

00:46:25.940 it's about like a man or like the media or something like that. Um, I, I keep it pretty

00:46:31.580 positive, but in real life I am, if you ask like my friend Ryan, he's like, you've never liked a

00:46:37.480 cup of coffee in your life. Like I just, I'm a, I am a big complainer. Amazing. See, there was a

00:46:45.180 surprising thing. What is the one piece of advice you'd like to leave everyone with? Oh, just do it.

00:46:51.620 Just do it. I see people and it breaks my heart having the same idea or the same thing that they

00:46:58.000 wanted to do. And you talk to them a year later, two years, three years, four years, and they're

00:47:01.260 still haven't done it. And I'm like, just do it. And I'm going to say, we might have learned from

00:47:05.880 you to dream big. Cause I think, sure. Don't limit yourself. Don't limit yourself. See,

00:47:10.320 cause why not? Cause you want to know what, Oh, now I'm going, here it goes. I'm just saying

00:47:15.100 that, that I think that, I think you, you think that people get to where they are because of some

00:47:21.200 special skill you don't have. And then the further in you go, you realize that everyone's just a

00:47:26.260 person and that they got there for whatever. And I feel like once you realize that you, you can

00:47:33.360 lift the ceiling and just dream bigger because there's no reason why it can't be you don't

00:47:39.480 limit yourself don't limit yourself yes okay well thank you so much for coming that was really fun

00:47:44.440 thank you i can't wait to read this book because now it actually has like even more meaning no

00:47:48.900 you're gonna really like it it's very neighborhood-y yeah but i'm now seeing the movie oh good

00:47:54.340 exactly we're gonna dream big

00:48:03.360 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - July 13, 2025

Sunday Nice Things： The Messy Parts with Katie Sturino

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