Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - The Smart Woman’s Guide to Escaping Into Reality TV With Kate Casey

00:00:00.000 Here is where we're at right now. No one I know wants a hot girl summer, okay? And you 1.00

00:00:13.840 know what? They don't really want a coastal grandma summer, either. No. No. What people

00:00:21.620 seem to want is an escape this flaming hellscape of late-stage capitalism with a glass of wine 1.00

00:00:27.440 and maybe the real housewives. Kind of summer. Which is why I called up my friend Kate Casey, 1.00

00:00:33.840 because she's a genius when it comes to this stuff. She is the human equivalent of a perfectly 0.83

00:00:39.680 curated Hulu cue. She's the host of the daily podcast Reality Life, and she is one of the 0.97

00:00:45.120 smartest people out there when it comes to reality television and true crime. And I don't say that

00:00:50.180 lightly because I know a lot of people who are really smart about reality television and true

00:00:55.260 crime. Today, we're creating a guilty pleasure playlist for you, because you deserve it. This

00:01:01.620 is your permission slip to turn off the news and turn on something you're actually going to enjoy

00:01:07.300 this summer. Hello, Kate Casey. Well, when I see the countdown, it feels very American bandstand.

00:01:15.300 Doesn't it? Do you want to dance now? A little bit, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit.

00:01:19.840 I remember there was a show called Dance Party USA.

00:01:22.420 Oh, I do.

00:01:23.300 Oh, I do.

00:01:23.860 That was like in our hometown.

00:01:25.900 Yeah.

00:01:26.420 Yeah.

00:01:26.800 That was a really great show, to be honest.

00:01:31.600 It was great.

00:01:32.380 But I forget, did everybody else in the country get access to it or was it just us?

00:01:36.260 I think it was just us.

00:01:37.240 I think it was just a local thing.

00:01:38.680 Yeah.

00:01:38.740 Okay.

00:01:39.060 Or maybe not.

00:01:39.560 I don't know.

00:01:39.860 We'll find out.

00:01:40.560 We'll find out.

00:01:41.980 There are a thousand reasons that I wanted to have you on today.

00:01:44.660 You are a genius about many.

00:01:46.240 Oh, thank you.

00:01:46.700 Many subjects.

00:01:47.620 but but one of them one of them in particular is reality television yeah it's a thing you know a

00:01:55.260 lot about and a lot of members of my audience have been telling me they don't want a hot girl summer

00:02:02.060 they don't want a coastal grandma summer they want an escape this dumpster fire of our country summer

00:02:09.080 And so and so they're just they're looking for good TV, good escapist books. And I want to give

00:02:17.280 people some great shows to binge right now if they've kind of been checking out of entertainment

00:02:22.220 and checking into the news. And now they want to check out of the news and check into the good

00:02:27.000 stuff. Yeah, I think that's so true. I find that when life gets really chaotic, there's something

00:02:33.220 that's so satisfying about tapping out of your own world and then just being a voyeur into someone

00:02:40.740 else's world listen i think there's so so many high level things that can come from watching

00:02:45.320 reality shows if you are exposed to somebody with a different culture a different faith like it can

00:02:51.760 help people have some sort of evolution as far as their own life perspective but there's something

00:02:58.580 that's so fun about watching a reality show where you can dip out of your own life and

00:03:02.620 watch people make horrible life and romantic decisions, and you know it won't have any

00:03:08.520 effect on your immediate life. No, it really won't. And I do agree with you. And I think

00:03:14.280 that's something interesting to point out at the start, that I think there is so much value

00:03:19.120 in reality TV. It gets written off as like, trash TV, a lot of times by a lot of people,

00:03:26.320 not me, but it is in some ways a beautiful ethnography of where we are at in the world

00:03:33.200 without question. I'm always just surprised when people say that to me. Like I was just somewhere

00:03:39.580 last week and a woman said, I don't, I don't really watch reality TV because I just feel like 0.93

00:03:44.200 it burns my brain cells. And then I thought, well, what movies are you watching? Because why would 0.51

00:03:50.000 you assume that that's not burning your brain cells? Or what are you reading? Or what TikToks

00:03:54.820 you follow. Like that's not burning your brain cells. The smartest people I know watch reality

00:03:59.700 shows because it's really just a study of human behavior. It's a study of human behavior. Exactly.

00:04:05.760 If I watch Real Housewives, I am watching for all of the small things that tell me so much

00:04:12.760 about a person, how they treat their children, their husbands, their best friends, down to what

00:04:18.880 they order at a restaurant. It helps me paint a picture of who that person is, the way they look

00:04:23.500 at the world, the way they treat people, the way they feel about themselves. And I think that's an

00:04:29.700 interesting thing to do is to explore why people think and operate the way they do. And I think

00:04:35.680 it's so helpful then when you go back to your own life, it makes you think about, all right, well,

00:04:40.680 this housewife, she's trying to overcome a bad marriage right now. It makes you start to look

00:04:46.800 at other people and the way they communicate with their loved ones or the way they treat their

00:04:50.460 parents who are sick or their kids. And I think that it gives people a little bit more grace

00:04:57.100 when you watch a show like that. And you can kind of study the way people operate.

00:05:02.080 I 100% agree. Also, the smartest people that I know, watch so much reality television.

00:05:07.400 I watch reality television. I've also covered reality television for years. I covered the rise

00:05:13.540 of reality television back when I was a celebrity reporter. I was the person who was paying my

00:05:20.320 reporters to go crash the bachelorette engagements and on exotic islands all over the world.

00:05:26.920 Well, I said it to you also, like Celebrity Inc. was a hugely important book to me. I think I read

00:05:33.360 that several times. Yeah. For me, it was like all the things that I cared about, which was like

00:05:39.880 data, information, interviews that had to do with this new medium, which again, people kind of put

00:05:46.460 down but what i notice is that someone will say oh i don't watch reality shows i'm too busy which

00:05:52.400 is such a such a gross thing to say to someone such a gross thing but i also hear that i hear

00:05:58.260 i hear people tell me often men i don't read books because i'm too busy and i'm like what are you

00:06:03.500 busy what are you doing what are you doing you know what are you doing in the bathroom and

00:06:07.600 they're looking at like sports clips on their phone yeah exactly but i would like to say that

00:06:11.460 to them. How do you have time to do that? How do you have so much time? Why are you watching your

00:06:16.500 kids? Exactly. Uh, but the people that mostly say that are lying because then they always seem to

00:06:23.500 like five minutes down the line, it's like, they know who the finalists are on a show.

00:06:28.460 They know who's in a relationship. I'm like, I thought you don't have time,

00:06:31.880 but you seem to know all the details about this show. Yeah, no, exactly. And the other thing

00:06:37.120 about reality TV is, I have to say, now that we live in a world with less and less appointment

00:06:43.960 television, you know, now that everything is streamed, and we're not all watching The Sopranos

00:06:50.040 on a Sunday night at the same exact time, reality shows, because of the nature of the competition,

00:06:55.940 feel like they're breeding community and conversation more than any other kind of

00:07:00.840 show out there right now. I think it is an enormous source of pop culture news.

00:07:05.900 oh yeah oh yeah for sure when i started my show nine years ago i would i had a background in pr

00:07:13.580 so i think that helped enormously but i would book these guests and then i would send all the

00:07:18.260 sound bites to the reporters and they were grateful because movie stars aren't really

00:07:23.760 available for interviews and they're very guarded but these reality stars would just sing like a

00:07:29.240 canary oh they'll say anything one of my big moments of my show was when i had interviewed

00:07:35.300 someone from Southern Charm and I'd asked them about Madison and A-Rod and she confirmed that

00:07:41.940 they were talking to each other. And that story became the front page of everything for like a

00:07:48.480 day. I thought it was going to be taken out by a J-Lo sniper and I'm not kidding you. To this day,

00:07:53.080 I feel like she owes me because I feel like I provided a lot of comfort for her so that she

00:07:57.620 could pursue Ben Affleck, which of course didn't end well, but that's neither here nor there.

00:08:01.800 Nothing's going to end well for J-Lo, okay?

00:08:04.020 I just, I do not think that she is destined for a happy ending.

00:08:08.840 You know when they say like people are kind of presented with their life and what it's

00:08:13.180 going to be and you kind of make an agreement, some sort of universal spiritual agreement,

00:08:17.600 like locked and loaded, I want that life.

00:08:19.960 I want those parents, that life plan.

00:08:23.360 Yep, yep.

00:08:24.000 I think the person who wants to be the movie star gets so caught up in, I'm going to get

00:08:29.860 all this recognition and the other things that come with it which are enormous headaches just

00:08:34.920 seem so small then I think they get into the life and they're like wait like Matthew Perry I think

00:08:41.060 was the one of the only people that really admitted to that like I would have done he said

00:08:45.260 I would have done everything anything to be famous but now here I am yep yep it's a deal with the

00:08:52.220 devil any way you slice it and there's also celebrities and we know them who are good at

00:08:58.660 making the things they make, and then stepping the hell away from the spotlight.

00:09:02.640 You know, like, there's so many celebrities, I don't know how many kids they have, if they

00:09:06.880 have kids. And then you find out later, because all of their children inevitably want to be

00:09:11.240 actors and actresses and models and singers. But, you know, I couldn't, I actually couldn't

00:09:17.300 tell you how many kids Matt Damon has.

00:09:19.520 I know, he's really good at that.

00:09:21.780 He's really good at that. And I think it's just in direct contrast to Ben Affleck.

00:09:24.980 you know what's interesting about matt damon too and i thought about this actually this morning

00:09:29.300 because i'm weird he married his wife lucy and she had a child from a previous relationship

00:09:36.600 and the press was always respectful to him and said he has four daughters other celebrities

00:09:41.760 they would say three daughters and then his wife's previous daughter or something they always gave him

00:09:49.140 the respect of including her in that yeah and they still do they still I mean I saw and I can

00:09:54.900 tell you it's four because I saw a recent profile and there was a family picture of them on the red

00:09:59.340 carpet because they don't hide but they're also not clamoring and desperate for press the way that

00:10:05.680 so many celebrities are he's lucky that he married somebody who also didn't want to be famous or it

00:10:13.580 doesn't seem to I should say because I don't know personally I don't think she seems to want to be

00:10:17.240 famous yeah um because if she wanted to be famous she very well could have right now could have like 0.59

00:10:23.040 a i remember when alex started dating ilaria and thinking she's on access hollywood showing off

00:10:30.580 their their baby nursery like yeah has he lost his mind mm-hmm she wants she wanted to be famous

00:10:37.380 matthew mcconaughey's wife she wants to be famous you know like any any celebrity spouse who starts 0.88

00:10:44.820 an influencer account wants the eyeballs they want the attention full stop no exceptions do

00:10:50.980 you remember when camila had the bag line and do you remember when kevin costner's ex-wife now now

00:10:55.940 ex-wife christine also had a bag line and they were both hideous yeah yeah bag line bag line

00:11:03.280 was like the earlier of the influencing yeah yeah i had a cast or a producer of a a real housewife

00:11:13.260 show that said they are overwhelmed with cast, um, interviews where the person starting a bikini

00:11:21.460 line. I believe that. That's like another thing right now. I will tell you, and I'm not going to

00:11:27.260 name names, but I got tricked into one of these like celebrity influencer bathing suit, like lines

00:11:33.780 the other day. And I ordered one and it was the most hideous thing I've ever seen in my entire

00:11:39.760 life. It was so cheap and so poorly fitting. I saw it on a model and it looked like it doesn't

00:11:45.340 even go under the boob. It doesn't even go under the boob. I think, yeah. I'm catching what you're 0.91

00:11:50.720 throwing. You know, you know. Okay, let's take a really quick break. And when we get back,

00:11:57.600 I want you to walk my audience through what they should be watching this summer

00:12:00.860 to just like let their minds go somewhere else for a little while. Okay, perfect.

00:12:09.760 okay we are back Kate Casey tell me what we should all be watching right now

00:12:19.200 well when I think of your audience this is the one I find makes people laugh so hard and it really

00:12:26.960 seems like it hits a lot of different generations in particular I kind of have a barometer and

00:12:33.440 sometimes there are these shows that my high school daughter and her friends will let like

00:12:37.420 they'll come to my house and they'll sit on the couch and they'll just binge it and laugh so hard

00:12:41.740 this one is called love undercover are you familiar with it wait no i know nothing about

00:12:47.460 love undercover love undercover is on peacock and what they did was they convinced these women

00:12:53.460 american women who seemingly have nothing going on and said to them you know we're gonna put you

00:13:01.020 on this dating show but the caveat is you are obviously so incredible and sophisticated and 1.00

00:13:07.060 interesting all those things but you don't seem to have any luck in the United States of America

00:13:12.400 so what we've done for you is we've found men in Europe and you know the you know the kind of the 1.00

00:13:21.620 rub is are you going to like them because they're just so fantastic so what these ding-a-lings don't 0.99

00:13:28.300 know is that all the men that are participating in the show are actually international soccer stars 1.00

00:13:34.480 stop stop with like bonkers followings one was actually retired but he was like an olympic

00:13:41.240 medalist in for mexico's soccer team so in the beginning episode these women are sitting there

00:13:51.260 and they bring in the men and they're so judgy they're like well i mean he's not that hot or

00:13:56.040 well he says he's a trainer i mean like what kind of job is that and a lot of them

00:14:00.820 are like the wannabe influencers like this one woman in particular at that point

00:14:05.140 I think because I saw it before it actually aired so then you're looking at some like real numbers 0.87

00:14:11.160 because you don't know what's going on once the show ends so I'm going to say at the time she had

00:14:15.340 like 27,000 followers okay and she was talking about herself as if she wore a list movie star

00:14:22.380 and she said well it's really like what kind of guy am I going to get for the kind of lifestyle

00:14:26.280 that I want and deserve and I'm like based on 27,000 followers what are we talking about here

00:14:30.780 like you don't get brand deals like what do you what's happening no one knows who you are 0.95

00:14:35.100 so they're these women are so judgy about their jobs and the other funny thing is the guys have

00:14:42.200 to lie about the job they make up jobs so like one guy said he works in construction and then

00:14:49.000 he gets a little like bored because he's competitive and he starts up in the ante like

00:14:54.740 he worked on the Burj Khalifa so you're in on the secret because you know that they're all

00:14:59.700 international stalker stars and they're all laughing about this behind the scenes like the

00:15:04.640 real love story is that all the guys become really good friends oh i love that especially

00:15:09.440 especially in the age of the epidemic of male loneliness totally yes and they're um and the

00:15:14.640 women are just such brats and it kind of showcases this like archetype of a woman who perceives 0.63

00:15:22.960 themselves as a major influencer without actually the following that would constitute being called 1.00

00:15:31.060 an influencer so at the end of the show they're all kind of you know getting cast off and then

00:15:35.580 they let them in like by the way i'm not actually you know a teacher i'm actually i play for real

00:15:41.280 madrid or something and they're like wait what but at the end if they're if they choose a girl

00:15:47.300 and they bring them back home um they have to let them in on like they're actually a celebrity but

00:15:52.100 then you see the power dynamic shift because they think they have the upper hand and then they're

00:15:56.260 like this like loser back in the states who desperately wants to date a celebrity wow it is

00:16:03.620 really funny so i interviewed two of the guys and i was just making because one guy lloyd was so in 0.51

00:16:09.740 his head because he's trying to maintain the secret and so he's just stiff and they're like

00:16:14.200 what's his problem and he's it's totally a funny person in real life but he was like so in his head

00:16:18.720 playing the game it's a good one all right i'm very i'm very excited i'm gonna put that on my

00:16:25.260 tbr right now um and i'm just gonna i'm just gonna binge it while i do like summer work

00:16:30.560 that's my yes you don't have to be paying attention to like sometimes with true crime

00:16:34.820 docs especially ones that are like this one i that just aired is from um argentina i had to

00:16:41.360 really pay attention and i hate that sometimes because i sometimes just want stuff in the

00:16:45.240 background to just blow it off. Totally. I just want stuff, stuff. I mean, like for a while I

00:16:49.880 actually watched old episodes of Friends while I was working. Yeah. My niece does that too. She's

00:16:55.000 like, it's like calming. Yeah. It's calming. It's calming. I mean, it's like, I watch it on long

00:17:00.360 plane rides too. Like when I need to fall asleep and goes off cause it's just like, it's comfort

00:17:04.160 food. It's meatloaf. Um, and I want to ask you about some true crime docs because you, you have

00:17:08.420 such good recommendations for those two, but give me one more good reality show. Well, I really

00:17:14.420 liked, I put this under the reality category is jury duty. Oh my God. I also don't know about this

00:17:19.680 one. What? No. Oh my God. This is like you and your husband are going, this is going to be like

00:17:26.580 appointment television. You're going to love this one so much. Okay. Jury duty is this hilarious

00:17:31.440 concept. And let me first tell you that my favorite reality show of all time was called

00:17:36.620 my big fat obnoxious fiance. And they had this couple and they had to pretend that they were

00:17:42.500 going to get married and convince their other family members. And I love that because the

00:17:48.040 audience is in on the joke, just like Love Undercover. This is a similar construct where

00:17:53.500 there is a jury and there is one person that's been cast who does not know that all the other

00:18:00.320 jurors and the judge and everybody in the courtroom are all actors. And so it's basically

00:18:06.480 like like a social experiment or they're following them and each juror has like some sort of

00:18:13.300 archetype and they're superb actors and actually the judge is played by ike barrenhold's dad

00:18:21.240 who actually was a judge but now should be a movie star because he's so good at this job

00:18:25.940 and each episode gets funnier and funnier oh and one of the jurors as an alternate is james

00:18:31.680 Marsden but he's playing himself as James Marsden as like but like a douchey version

00:18:36.400 oh my gosh so they're just they know that they know that he's James Marsden everybody in the

00:18:41.320 jurors like and the juror too he's like oh my god James Marsden but he's playing in like a

00:18:46.140 exaggerated version of himself because I got to tell you in real life James Marsden is lovely

00:18:50.820 he seems lovely and I have to tell you another great thing about this show

00:18:54.680 remember I said like the love undercover they all become friends

00:18:57.560 by the end of the episode where they have to reveal to the that's fake this fake or this

00:19:02.880 juror that they're all fake it is such a beautiful awe-inspiring people are good in this world

00:19:09.700 moment where you're crying and they all have remained friends well after the show's over

00:19:14.780 including the guy that's the the who doesn't know the secret the real juror and james marsden became

00:19:21.620 like really good friends oh my god stop it you work like you're gonna cry you're like i was

00:19:26.840 sobbing and I like sometimes I'll say okay you guys I sob like I just sobbed at the my mom Jane

00:19:31.980 with Jane Mansfield and Mariska Hargitay oh I haven't I haven't watched it yet but let's let's

00:19:37.020 talk about that one when we get into the I don't cry a lot yeah I cried at jury duty I was like

00:19:42.280 this he's such a superb person and everybody just did they put so much effort in and then you get

00:19:48.260 to see the fourth wall where they break break it down you see the people behind the scenes at the

00:19:52.640 big reveal and they're all hugging and crying and you'll feel good about the world when you watch

00:19:58.560 that I think that's what we all want right now like we want to feel Amazon Prime jury duties on

00:20:04.580 Amazon Prime but the other one is on Peacock oh this yeah this this brings me joy I I only met

00:20:11.080 James Marsden once but it was a good celebrity hang because we were at the Savannah Film Festival

00:20:15.980 which is an awesome film festival uh and it was early days of the film festival so everyone was

00:20:22.180 like, actually just like chilling, right? Yeah. And just like a big group of us all went out and

00:20:27.200 did karaoke. And he and I did a really stunning rendition of Country Roads. Wow. Yeah. And then

00:20:34.060 everyone just had drinks after and it was so fun. That tells me so much about per person.

00:20:40.700 If they're game for karaoke and singing something silly, it puts you high on the rungs.

00:20:46.760 It puts you high on the rungs. It tells me a lot about a person. Totally. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No,

00:20:51.440 he was great all right this show so i'm gonna put this on my to watch this is like this is top top

00:20:57.060 okay because we and your husband will love it too like yeah we haven't had a lot of shows that we

00:21:02.880 could watch together lately perfect yeah which is why it's why we ended up watching train wreck

00:21:07.900 poop cruise the other other night um which by the way don't regret don't regret that was it was an

00:21:15.000 hour of television that was so well produced it felt like it was a documentary that felt like a

00:21:21.480 mockumentary oh and i'm like i'm like oh yeah like you guys you guys delivered on the entertainment

00:21:26.760 quotient wait have you ever watched class action park on hbo okay that's another one to add on the

00:21:31.940 list that's a laugh out like i was like a guttural laugh because action park remember when we were

00:21:37.480 kids oh yeah we i don't think we we were not old enough to go but like my siblings went my older

00:21:44.180 siblings yeah it was like just slightly before us but i remember it yeah so they made a documentary

00:21:51.080 about it but it's all of these hilarious former staffers and comedians that are riffing about like

00:21:57.060 what class action what action park was like they called a class action park because the guy who

00:22:01.880 owned it was like a con artist and he got uh like some he had some situation where he was able to

00:22:08.460 get insurance but like it was all fraud the whole thing and there were injuries and anyway that's

00:22:15.400 another one where you're laughing out loud okay all right here class action park yes on hbo okay

00:22:23.040 great here for that too okay one last break and when we get back let's dig in a little bit to

00:22:27.860 true crime because i also think that despite the subject matter and i can say this as someone who

00:22:33.360 just published a crime thriller. That is also escapist for a lot of us.

00:22:39.440 It is.

00:22:47.660 Okay, we are back. Talk to me a little bit about some really good true crime docs that we can kind

00:22:53.300 of sink our teeth into right now. And also just like, lay around and watch on a lazy Sunday.

00:22:59.640 Well, I also think that in times of chaos, people like true crime docs too, because

00:23:04.240 it's a way of making you feel like I'm going to come up with a solution here. I'm going to map

00:23:10.400 it all out. I'm going to figure it out. It gives us a sense of control.

00:23:15.420 Absolutely. Absolutely. And also because most of the time it gets solved in the time that you're

00:23:23.760 watching it right so you have a satisfying conclusion when in the world that is rare

00:23:30.420 right well i should tell you that in two we can change they have a new prime video documentary

00:23:39.120 on the idaho four murders that are coming out oh that's going to be an absolute one one that

00:23:44.980 everyone's going to watch i told you to watch the keepers which is about a catholic nun by the name

00:23:50.360 of Kathy, Sister Kathy Sesnick. Oh, yes. I started this. I started this. I'm so... All right. Yeah.

00:23:55.600 Keep going and tell the audience. It's so good. And Brenda, because you love all things nuns.

00:23:58.940 I do. She was this spectacular teacher at a school called Archbishop Keough in Baltimore,

00:24:06.000 which was an all-girls school, which is no longer in existence. While she was there,

00:24:10.700 she was this beloved teacher, but she hadn't taken the formal vow. She was sort of in this

00:24:15.080 pilot program where nuns were teaching and then later on they could go teach at a public school.

00:24:21.640 So she was just like a cool teacher who really listened to them. Unbeknownst to the parents

00:24:29.880 of that school and much of the people who lived in that community, there were priests that were

00:24:35.260 working at that school who were molesting the students. And Sister Kathy Sesnick, it seems,

00:24:43.520 was going to be a whistleblower because these students would come to her and they would tell

00:24:48.420 her things and so she disappears one day in 1968 and once after her body is found and so the whole

00:25:00.100 series of the keepers is about these former students who are now or at that point were like

00:25:05.180 in their 60s and they were tirelessly trying to find out what happened to her and in the process

00:25:09.700 began to unravel what seems like a total cover-up, which included not only the Archdiocese of

00:25:17.180 Baltimore, but also the police department. It seems like these police officers were pulling

00:25:21.600 up to the school, going through a side door, and they were assaulting a lot of the students of that

00:25:27.460 school. So it's really powerful. I think it's about maybe like four episodes, maybe five.

00:25:33.780 four or five is also my sweet spot yeah that's yeah yeah you know I started the first episode

00:25:39.980 and I'm sucked in the keepers yeah that one is a keeper yeah okay really well done another

00:25:47.500 obsession of mine and truly I go through like I have obsessions that go back actually another

00:25:53.160 obsession I had was in um I don't know where we were but like I think you may remember it was 1998

00:26:02.000 and there was a girl named amy lynn bradley who went on a cruise ship with her parents

00:26:06.460 and her brother to like curacao and like that kind of area and disappeared off the cruise ship

00:26:13.600 and no one knows what happened to her and there's reason to believe that maybe she was taken off

00:26:17.640 and like put into the sex trap it's like the sex trade down there and maybe alive so that was like

00:26:24.400 one of my obsessions netflix has a doc coming out about it in another two weeks i i just saw a doc

00:26:30.740 when I was scrolling last night about the Gabby Petito story. I don't think you should watch that

00:26:35.280 one. Okay. All right. I just think it was, I didn't think it was great. Okay, good. Good to

00:26:38.920 know. Yeah. No, don't even waste your, I should bypass that one. Talk to me a little bit. This

00:26:42.940 isn't true crime, but about the Mariska Hargitay. Okay. Why do I, I love biographical documentaries

00:26:50.400 and especially if it's about someone exploring the story of their parents. Oh my God. Me too.

00:26:56.320 I mean, Sicilian inheritance. Come on. Yes. It's the best. Yeah. Well, oh, you're going to really

00:26:59.980 love this one because you take Mariska Hargitay, who is a super, you know, stupendous actress. 1.00

00:27:06.180 Perfect in every way. Okay. Just, yeah. And she sort of, I think, represents our time, like 0.98

00:27:12.860 a really strong woman, excellent at her craft, someone who's an advocate for women,

00:27:18.760 advocate for victims. And I, what I've come to understand is that she's been reconciling the

00:27:24.980 fact that her own mother was sort of a product of that time but in a totally different way she was 0.99

00:27:31.060 like a Marilyn Monroe knockoff like plain stupid blonde with like that weird voice and so if you're 0.97

00:27:37.960 Mariska and you look back you're like I what would I have in common with this woman if I had met her 0.99

00:27:42.800 you know at somewhere right that that is like I I you know I represent her in some ways and when

00:27:50.860 she sort of unravels the story of your mother, you realize Jane Mansfield was brilliant. She

00:27:57.240 spoke several languages. She played two different instruments. She was a really great actress.

00:28:02.340 But it really speaks to what women had to do at that time to kind of be objectified in order to

00:28:07.940 have a career at all. And then also what happens after you start to age and how the business sort

00:28:14.820 of chews you up and spit you out. She was really the Paris Hilton before her time because people

00:28:20.360 treated her like she was an idiot but she was very aware of like what kind of press she was getting 0.99

00:28:25.180 how to set up a shot how to keep yourself still in the news and in the meantime she has this family 0.99

00:28:31.400 and what's revealed in it and I won't reveal it is that there's a family secret about Mariska and

00:28:38.360 who her father really is and that is like an added layer to it which I think of of our time too there

00:28:45.640 are so many people that are getting answers on the reality of who their relatives are because

00:28:52.040 of 23 and me oh my gosh i have two friends and you know like two people that aren't just

00:28:58.140 acquaintances that i like talk to on a pretty regular basis that found out their dad wasn't

00:29:02.380 their dad wow i know i know because during the 70s they were doing that crazy thing where they

00:29:08.360 wouldn't tell men they were infertile and they were just like you can mix the sperm with someone

00:29:13.740 else's and that sperm will help your sperm swim because they just couldn't bear to tell a poor

00:29:19.920 man and his fragile ego that he couldn't make a baby um and so yeah two of my friends same thing

00:29:27.160 wife one friend from college i went to a catholic women's school my one friend

00:29:31.140 had that happened she found out the donor was jewish and she has since converted her whole

00:29:37.400 family oh my god she's and now that i look back she's and she said i just didn't feel like i was 0.96

00:29:42.660 in the right place in college which totally makes sense touching him as an imposter right yeah yeah

00:29:49.120 so it's got a lot of those elements in like making peace with like who your parents were and really

00:29:54.880 trying to figure out who she was but also it's this love story to her entire family

00:29:59.160 because they're all kind of part they're all participating in it and reflecting on their

00:30:04.800 relationship with their mom and and coping with the grief even decades later because she was killed

00:30:11.120 in a car accident and the three three of the kids were in the backseat of the car oh my gosh and

00:30:15.740 they survived so it's almost like molly shannon's book and like a paternity story it's like a lot

00:30:23.180 of different things oh you know what i would like to watch that with my mom you should i i actually

00:30:30.060 watched it with my mom too i really recommend that one yeah and also you're not gonna know

00:30:35.380 about this one. I'm going to tell you the two. Yeah. Sally on Disney plus Hulu about Sally Ride

00:30:41.340 is magnificent. I have seen, I just saw a snippet of this on Instagram. I love that we're doing

00:30:48.420 this because I got to tell you, I think content is harder to find than ever. Well, that's why I

00:30:52.420 love what I do because I help curate a list every week and I'm bringing people a lot of these that

00:30:57.980 you wouldn't necessarily find it. Someone like Sally Ride, you know, when you're growing up,

00:31:01.560 people say freaking ride. Well, that then you hear her story. And I got to interview her partner 0.99

00:31:07.240 of 27 years, who remained secret because Sally rides this astronaut and she can't talk about

00:31:14.260 her partner because she's in this misogynistic space. And yeah, so and not just that, right?

00:31:20.260 Wasn't it because NASA was really worried that the astronauts could be blackmailed?

00:31:27.400 If anyone found out that they were committing, you know, essentially because, you know, a lot of people thought that it was unacceptable to be in a same sex marriage.

00:31:38.780 She married a man for a period of time.

00:31:41.040 Oh, my gosh.

00:31:41.420 And he's interviewed.

00:31:43.280 And then you're asking, like, have times changed?

00:31:46.000 Is it better now?

00:31:46.980 And then after she died of cancer, she got Tam, who's her partner.

00:31:51.820 Sally got a presidential medal of freedom and she was the one that accepted it and you just

00:32:00.560 lose your mind crying oh my gosh but she's like an outstanding figure who's done so much for

00:32:06.800 women in science and math and I the amount of people that participated in this and there's

00:32:13.340 this one point that you're gonna love Tam her partner reads this letter from an astronaut who

00:32:17.960 was with her and he went on to have daughters and in reflection said I was the worst version

00:32:26.080 of myself I was the product of like the patriarchy especially in that work environment and now I

00:32:32.420 realize what I did and said and I have great regret about it and Sally is a hero and Tam's

00:32:39.440 reading the letter and you're just like I feel like that's something that should be shown in

00:32:44.480 high schools and colleges. Oh my gosh. All right. I'm going to, I'm going to put that one on the

00:32:48.500 list immediately. Also, I just finished the book Atmosphere, which is about, oh, it's about a pair

00:32:57.260 of women astronauts who fall in love with each other in the early eighties. It felt very Sally

00:33:02.280 Ride. Well, it probably is because there were, there were a couple of women that she had 0.99

00:33:06.860 relationships with, but Sally was so private. It wasn't until she was on her deathbed that she said,

00:33:13.140 I want to, I want to make, you know, legally, I want us to be partners. And then when the

00:33:18.080 obituary came out, that's when people first realized she even had a partner. And then you're

00:33:22.040 like, like Lynn Schur, the reporter, she said, I mean, I was close to her. I couldn't, I was like,

00:33:27.000 how'd you keep this a secret? Wow. All right. So much good. There's this one moment after she's

00:33:34.800 on the challenger and, you know, they come down. Right. Yeah. She goes to a press conference and

00:33:39.060 this reporter goes to hand her flowers and she doesn't take it and she got written about like

00:33:45.180 she's ungrateful and the whole thing was you give the flowers to the astronaut's wife

00:33:50.880 i am the astronaut and you're like mic drop mic drop mic drop wow see again unscripted tv to me 0.96

00:34:02.500 way more interesting than scripted tv you can watch all these dumb series with owen wilson or

00:34:07.320 whatever but like these are real people real stories you learn so much about yourself as you

00:34:12.400 start like if you're watching my mom jane you're reflecting on your own life and also tropes and

00:34:19.680 all of this it's i i find it it's like a continuation of college right exactly it's a

00:34:26.100 it's a full degree in anthropology and sociology is what it is yes 100 oh my god you gave me so

00:34:32.040 much so much good good stuff to watch i'm gonna have to have you on maybe once a month as just

00:34:36.720 like my what to watch guru. Yes. Will you tell everyone where they can find you and all of your

00:34:41.840 incredible recommendations? The first thing I think they're really going to love is my what

00:34:45.500 to watch list. And if you just go to katecasey.substack.com, you just put in your email

00:34:50.760 address every Monday. Really, it's on Sundays. You get an email and it just gives you documentaries

00:34:56.000 and reality shows to watch for the week. And you also can see all the archive lists. So if you

00:35:01.400 miss something like six months ago, you can find something. And there's so many great things that

00:35:06.120 are buried in all these streaming networks and channels so many things so many i mean nick and i

00:35:11.780 were just like we didn't know what to do the other night because and i was saying i'm like one i miss

00:35:17.620 going to blockbuster and like just walking around and you could see it all you can see it all and

00:35:22.620 two i miss i don't miss commercials generally but i miss trailers for things yeah like when there

00:35:29.220 were like trailers i was like oh i know what's coming i know where to go and now it's just so

00:35:35.220 scattered. I need that. We all need you. Like a quote unquote trailer on Netflix. It's maybe 10

00:35:40.700 seconds. It doesn't really give you any meat on the bone. No, no, exactly. Exactly. Okay. So

00:35:45.280 everyone needs to sign up for the subsec. It is perfection. So then they can go to my podcast. 1.00

00:35:49.960 So I have six, I really do seven episodes a week because Monday I do what to watch Tuesday through

00:35:56.200 Friday. I interview the talent, the directors and executive producers that make all of these things

00:35:59.700 Saturdays, which you've been a part of are the Saturday series episodes, which are people that

00:36:04.400 I find have really interesting stories and then I have like a bonus episode like the bonus episode

00:36:09.720 this week will be about Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos wedding because I'm like you like I go deep

00:36:14.180 diving you know I mean because I couldn't not okay like I just and also the benefit I think to

00:36:20.560 listening to our shows is our our media perspective too which a lot of deep divers don't always give

00:36:28.960 that perspective of like how someone maneuvers the media with the like obviously for Lauren and

00:36:35.320 Jeff's wedding I'm like they chose that venue because it would require all of those celebrities

00:36:39.840 to come in and out on a boat they can't just have someone secretly drop them off so they could all

00:36:44.880 be seen they could all be seen and I mean the fact that they had the majority of the wedding

00:36:51.460 guests were strangers to them but they were they were celebrities again the small things say so

00:36:56.640 much. Now I know everything I know about both of them because they invited people that were

00:37:02.620 celebrities they didn't know to their wedding. Yes. Yes. That's like when you go to a party and

00:37:08.540 you learn something small about someone and you're like, we don't need to move forward forward.

00:37:12.800 No, we don't. Well, I mean, so what it reminded me of was the days when I was a celebrity reporter

00:37:18.860 and everyone was like, oh my gosh, it must be so much fun. You're always at these

00:37:23.240 like emmy after parties and oscar after parties and i'm like you don't get it yeah it is all a

00:37:29.700 performance these things are not fun like the majority of celebrities also like don't really

00:37:36.220 know each other except on a surface level so it's not like they're like hanging with their friends

00:37:41.360 they're all there to like be seen and see kiss the ring kiss the ring and it's all a performance

00:37:50.160 and so you know that's exactly what the wedding felt like my friend carlene who lives in the

00:37:55.680 neighborhood next to me mom of four back in the day she was the uh an us weekly reporter she was 0.83

00:38:00.800 the person that got into the back um tom cruise party and took the picture of katie and tom 1.00

00:38:06.680 dancing when she had the strapless red dress on yeah yeah yeah she was that's that the whole party

00:38:12.860 is it was weird she said there were rare parties that were that were fun and like sometimes after

00:38:18.140 after parties were often quite fun in the days before smartphones because no one had pictures

00:38:23.300 but just like those really organized parties I'm like this is work for these people

00:38:27.560 like and the the whole Bezos Sanchez wedding it just felt like performance. Why did Leonardo

00:38:34.620 DiCaprio go? Why like that my question actually is what is in it for these people? Well for the

00:38:39.480 actors I think you now you have so many prime tech people that are investing in those projects 0.92

00:38:46.580 So they're like, I have to ass kiss. 0.91

00:38:48.860 I have to. 0.99

00:38:49.360 This was kissing the ring.

00:38:50.720 I didn't even think about that.

00:38:52.100 A hundred percent.

00:38:53.100 But Oprah. 0.72

00:38:54.420 Oprah needs nothing. 0.99

00:38:55.460 She doesn't need anything. 0.96

00:38:56.340 Why is she there? 0.83

00:38:57.220 Why is she there?

00:38:58.780 Or maybe she does.

00:39:01.000 Who knows?

00:39:02.160 Because traditional TV has gone by the wayside and you always need streaming money.

00:39:07.160 Okay.

00:39:08.460 But doesn't she have enough money to start her own streamer?

00:39:11.120 I don't know.

00:39:12.400 Can they ever have enough money?

00:39:13.480 I think that some of them may regret this and go, just like the space shuttle launch. Like, I thought this was going to move the needle, and it actually buried the needle.

00:39:23.420 Yeah, but there's also no consequences anymore. Like, you know, it's like a flash in the pan. And then just like the fact that I said the F-bomb on local television today.

00:39:33.560 um yeah and it's over i mean there's just like we live in a consequence less world for celebrities

00:39:40.940 at this point but yeah it was shocking the fact one the fact that they had strangers at their

00:39:46.340 wedding and two the fact that they those strangers actually went that they showed up that they went

00:39:52.680 that they went no one looked like they were having fun well also when i read that the the night after

00:39:59.460 was like pajama-esque. I'd be like, I'm not coming to your wedding. Sorry. I'm not coming

00:40:05.600 to your wedding. No. Don't tell me what color to wear and what theme it is. No, no. Like Oprah had

00:40:13.460 to wear like a satin negligee pajama situation. I know. And did it. And did it. And Usher was there.

00:40:21.320 I know. Oh, I have a good Usher story too. I once stole Usher's limousine outside of the Kentucky

00:40:27.820 Derby because I had I snuck into a Kentucky Derby after party and then snuck back out you know once

00:40:34.960 I got my interviews and my scoop and the only car waiting outside was apparently Usher's

00:40:39.480 Limo and I got in and like you know they're going back and forth from like this estate to like

00:40:43.420 downtown and I was like take me to this hotel and he's like I'm um waiting for so and so and I'm

00:40:50.180 like it's okay you can it's like 15 minutes and he did and Usher's Limo took me back to

00:40:54.840 back to downtown Louisville. And did that driver give you any indication on how happy he was?

00:41:00.400 He gave me no gossip whatsoever. He would not speak to me. And he got back and he picked up

00:41:04.920 Usher. And also that Usher smells really good. I once did a story about Usher's fragrance launch.

00:41:09.620 It was in Celebrity Inc. Oh, yeah. I'd probably have to go back and read that part. But I love

00:41:15.480 that book. My daughter just showed me a video at Usher concerts. He gives women like strawberries

00:41:20.820 or cherries and they have to lean over and like you know eat it and she's like this guy is so

00:41:26.560 gross i'm like that's kind of gross we all know it we all know that yeah that's kind of gross he

00:41:30.560 did smell good though he did yeah i know i mean it's all of these people i mean dicaprio also

00:41:35.040 with like his hat over his face and then orlando orlando bloom solo it was like 92 private jets

00:41:40.660 went to that wedding and isn't this like leonardo dicaprio talking about like climate change he left

00:41:45.280 i'm pretty sure he left like a climate conference or he had just recently been oh my god to then

00:41:49.740 why is this guy not even called out more oh it's all over my social media but like i said we we

00:41:55.100 live in a consequence consequence free world so no one seems to care and also like he always has 0.93

00:42:00.000 the younger girlfriends like he's always always yeah yeah i mean it's just oh the yeah the bezos

00:42:08.020 sanchez coupling i just i think about his family and mackenzie scott all the time and i'm just like

00:42:15.820 you dodged a bullet girl like you deserve this is her season this is gonna be her season because

00:42:21.960 people are paying attention to all the work that she does yep yeah this is it because this is 1.00

00:42:27.340 clearly always who he was inside oh yeah yeah he's a i mean he's a dork he's a dork he's a dork 1.00

00:42:34.300 who then just like he got all he got like the entire dork fantasy right like everything a dork 0.99

00:42:39.860 wants when they're 12 right and he's definitely got to be on human growth hormone he's oh he's

00:42:45.600 on all all of those guys are on all of the things they're all getting all of the things on all of

00:42:50.720 the human growth hormones like yes yes and yes oh yeah did you see that like the night before they

00:42:56.120 had like a phone party the phone party the phone party what year are we in what year what and how

00:43:00.800 old are you really yeah i know everything about it everything about it oh all right casey i could

00:43:08.420 talk to you for hours i know i could talk to you for hours but i have to go pick up my kid

00:43:12.940 oh oh i know i i'm i'm i'm driving that train too yeah yeah gotta go grab him from from the local

00:43:20.800 pool uh you're amazing thank you and you're gonna have you on once a month we're doing this forever

00:43:25.000 now there's nothing i love more than like i the best thing is you're gonna write me back and say

00:43:30.060 we started watching jury duty and we are totally like can't wait to be with each other to watch

00:43:35.960 i feel like that's the best yeah yeah it's gonna be great thank you thank you thank you thank you

00:43:42.940 Thank you.

00:44:12.940 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - July 10, 2025

The Smart Woman’s Guide to Escaping Into Reality TV With Kate Casey

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