Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： The Silver Chain

00:00:00.000 Today's Sunday Nice Things has everything that you want in a Sunday listen. Swingers,

00:00:11.120 the 70s, and puritanical Minnesota. From my friends who bring you the Terrible 1.00

00:00:17.200 Things for Asking podcast comes a new show called Time Capsule, The Silver Chain, which, 0.99

00:00:23.160 as promised, unveils the secret lives of 70s swingers. And they've already released two

00:00:28.700 episodes. So if you like this, you can go over to their feed and mini binge it. I think you're

00:00:34.280 going to love it. And if you do, go and subscribe to Time Capsule, the silver chain. It comes from

00:00:39.480 my friend, Nora McInerney. And, you know, she's the best. She's just the best. I love her. And

00:00:45.160 this, this, my friends, is a wild ride. Maybe don't listen to it with the kids around.

00:00:53.640 A quick warning. This episode contains material not suitable for children.

00:00:58.700 When I was a kid growing up in northern Minnesota,

00:01:10.200 I decided to start my very own detective agency.

00:01:15.020 There were just a few obstacles.

00:01:17.360 We lived in the woods, 10 miles from the nearest town.

00:01:21.120 Also, I made this decision in the dead of winter.

00:01:25.540 And my neighbors, many who lived miles away,

00:01:28.700 They were A, annoyed by my unannounced house calls, and B, let's just say unamused by the big announcement that I, a nine-year-old, was available for hire.

00:01:42.000 But that didn't stop my pitch.

00:01:44.980 Missing valuable family jewels, searching for a long-lost spinster aunt, I'm your guy.

00:01:51.260 And gradually, after more than a few slammed doors, I realized that the people who live in the woods reside there for a reason.

00:02:02.820 They want to be left alone.

00:02:06.840 And after all that literal legwork and frostbite, I had zero clients.

00:02:13.880 Little did I know, decades later, I'd have another shot at my dream.

00:02:21.260 In the early 1990s, a safe deposit box at First Bloomington Lake National Bank in Minneapolis went unclaimed.

00:02:29.640 For months, the rent had not been paid, and per the bank's policy, the contents would be sent to the Minnesota Department of Commerce.

00:02:38.200 Inside this slim metal box in a nondescript bank, the employees found something that definitely caught their attention.

00:02:45.660 i'm paul diddy and this is time capsule the silver chain

00:02:53.040 this story begins with a text message from my friend april shee have you heard of the

00:03:07.040 silver chain social club april's a writer for tv and film and co-founder of her own production

00:03:12.020 company, Diversity Hire Limited. We've been friends for 10 years and even formed our own

00:03:17.140 writers group because, well, I'm also a TV writer. I have not. Immediately after my reply,

00:03:25.660 April sends me a link to a 2017 GQ article about the Silver Chain Social Club, titled

00:03:32.640 The 70s Swingers Club and the Secret Archive It Left Behind.

00:03:38.000 In the early 70s, four satiated but dissatisfied couples on their way home to Minnesota from a

00:03:46.340 social event in a distant state reignited a conversation they'd been having about their

00:03:52.680 gripe. Having to pack up and travel to meet like-minded people was a big bother. Surely

00:03:59.540 there was a way to meet more people like them close to home, other swingers. So they made a

00:04:05.960 plan. If they combined efforts, they thought, they could start their own swingers club and create a

00:04:12.280 scene right in their own town. They could swing more often and with more people. These couples

00:04:18.900 called themselves the executive committee of their new outfit. The article, written and read here by

00:04:26.900 Minnesota journalist Jack Elhye, pieces together a story from a collection of 18 of the Silver

00:04:33.320 Chain's newsletters, dating from October 1976 to June 1978, newsletters that found their way from

00:04:40.840 a safe deposit box to the Minnesota Department of Commerce, and then finally becoming a part

00:04:47.140 of the collections at the Minnesota Historical Society Library. In the article, Jack L. High

00:04:54.560 shares what he knows about the Silver Chain. It was a couples-only swing club that held the

00:05:00.840 majority of their monthly dances at the faux Indian-themed Thunderbird Motel in the Minneapolis

00:05:06.940 suburb of Bloomington. New members were allowed in by referral only. And club-sponsored events

00:05:14.520 like dances, picnics, and sports leagues were for socializing only, as in no sex.

00:05:23.360 That's right. The members were left responsible for partner swapping and sex on their own time.

00:05:30.840 And then there's the name, the silver chain itself, which originated from the idea that members could identify one another by wearing a silver chain with a distinctive round pendant containing the number 77.

00:05:45.800 The meaning behind the number 77? As one club goer explains, it's like 69, only you get 8 more. As in A-T-E more. I know.

00:06:00.840 try forgetting that one. But within the article, Elhai also shares what he doesn't know.

00:06:09.200 Was the final newsletter an indication of the club's demise? Who was it that placed

00:06:14.780 these newsletters in a safe deposit box only to abandon them? And when, why, and even if

00:06:22.960 the club ended at all? Finding the answers to these questions is especially challenging for

00:06:30.020 El-Hai because, in the Silver Chain's effort to preserve anonymity, members are identified both

00:06:36.260 in the newsletter and at the monthly dances by first name and last name initial only.

00:06:44.800 As I read Jack El-Hai's article, my world completely stops. April, she totally knows me.

00:06:54.300 This article checks all the boxes.

00:06:58.280 My home state, the 1970s, my favorite decade,

00:07:03.260 and most of all, the real-life mystery within those newsletters.

00:07:08.100 The idea of a swing club holding monthly events out in the open

00:07:12.400 in the conservative suburbs of Minneapolis

00:07:15.140 sounds so preposterous that I'm instantly hooked.

00:07:20.200 April tells me she has plans to partner with actor-producer Jack Houston

00:07:27.180 And develop the article into a TV series

00:07:30.520 But the best part of all is that she wants me on board

00:07:34.340 So over the next couple of weeks, we work on a pitch

00:07:37.180 And then set up a meeting with Jack Houston to discuss

00:07:40.100 Well, everyone's here!

00:07:42.000 This is so exciting, Jack!

00:07:42.660 I know, finally! This is so great!

00:07:45.060 Amazing!

00:07:46.340 Hi, Jack!

00:07:47.360 Cool!

00:07:48.680 Nice to finally meet you

00:07:50.200 Oh, it's so good to meet you, too. Well, I've heard a lot about you.

00:07:53.440 Yeah, well, obviously, I'm just really honored that you both shared this with me.

00:07:59.120 And I'm just really curious, like, how did you come across this article?

00:08:05.620 I always have an eye out for things, just sort of, you know, being in the business as sort of actor, writer, director, that kind of thing.

00:08:13.640 So I love to read everything from all sort of walks of life.

00:08:19.140 But I just was fascinated at this idea about Minnesota back in the 70s.

00:08:26.800 I agree, too.

00:08:27.800 It's like I'm very fascinated by it because I feel like for suburban, you know, Minnesota life, this is such a progressive stance.

00:08:37.020 But then you realize that they were young.

00:08:38.840 They were exactly like us and they were excited and wanted to explore and do fun things.

00:08:44.160 So I think with something like this, it opens up such a new understanding of who our grandparents and parents really were.

00:08:56.860 Yeah, I love how it's like both sexy and like unsexy at the same time.

00:09:00.800 And I think we each walk away with like an idea of what swinging is.

00:09:05.040 But I feel like what we're missing is we don't really, like we can glean things from the newsletters

00:09:10.980 and from like what we understand

00:09:13.020 the swinging lifestyle to be,

00:09:14.800 but we don't really know what it was like.

00:09:17.640 All we have to go by is like our preconceived notions

00:09:22.000 of what swinging is.

00:09:23.480 And my preconceived notion of swinging is

00:09:26.720 it must be incredibly messy.

00:09:29.100 I don't know why.

00:09:31.940 To myself, I'm like,

00:09:33.440 you think of these rather prim and proper

00:09:35.240 and you know, like the ideals of the day,

00:09:38.820 But, like, there's something rather messy about it.

00:09:43.200 I think I wish I was the type of person

00:09:46.000 that could, like, participate in something like this,

00:09:49.380 but I'm way too prudish and, like, feel like I would get jealous.

00:09:53.040 Like, I wish I was the type of person that was more progressive.

00:09:56.380 You know what I mean?

00:09:57.560 I'm trying to imagine, like, first of all, 0.99

00:10:00.800 how did they have time to do all of this fucking? 0.99

00:10:04.080 Like, who has time? 0.99

00:10:05.820 yeah i barely even have time to like get coffee in the morning yeah by the way i think that's

00:10:14.940 brilliant just that question like how did they have time to do all this and they have kids they

00:10:20.460 have children these people so i know i can't even keep a plant alive and i don't have sex so

00:10:26.840 Part of our collective curiosity during this call is that in recent years, phrases like open relationship, polyamory, and ethical non-monogamy have gradually woven their way into the conversation.

00:10:44.340 In our recent survey, we actually found that 52% of Americans, a majority, said they tried something new in the bedroom during the pandemic.

00:10:51.640 I'm looking for Saturday night orgies and white picket fences like

00:10:56.980 How we define ethical non-monogamy for us is that we are romantically monogamous and

00:11:03.480 Sexually non-monogamous. You look at the calendar. Oh tomorrow

00:11:08.080 So-and-so is coming over and Bridget is hosting that means that I need to find something to do

00:11:13.020 This is far more than just about sex or just about casual sex is people who are actually committed

00:11:19.040 They've agreed that they will have multiple partners.

00:11:21.740 And I know it sounds like a lot from the outside looking in,

00:11:24.840 but at the end of the day, ethical non-monogamy is what makes us happy.

00:11:29.420 So does swinging as we know it even exist today?

00:11:34.300 Or has it gone the way of the rotary dial phone or the VHS tape?

00:11:38.400 Something so archaic that we find it entertaining, yet somehow inaccessible.

00:11:45.460 Kind of like that key party scene in Ang Lee's film, The Ice Storm.

00:11:54.160 Oh, my own husband. Isn't that against the rules?

00:11:57.680 Try again.

00:11:59.240 No.

00:12:00.120 No, no, no, thanks.

00:12:02.760 That's fine.

00:12:05.000 Or those late night ads I used to see on cable TV.

00:12:09.380 It's for you.

00:12:11.000 plato's retreat located in the ansonia hotel is a unique club open to free-thinking adult couples

00:12:19.580 we offer a relaxing no-pressure environment complete with heated swimming pool and that

00:12:24.180 great disco beat plato's may not be for everyone but it turns out that yes swingers still do exist

00:12:31.060 hey there pineapple people and welcome to the swing nation podcast we are your hosts

00:12:40.080 Northern Guy and Southern Girl. Dan and Lacey aka Northern Guy and Southern Girl are the married

00:12:47.860 hosts of the Swing Nation podcast and are two of the most prominent voices in the swinging

00:12:53.100 community today. I found this community of people that kind of looked at you know life and sex and

00:12:59.800 relationships in a slightly different manner and I was like that's really cool that couples can be

00:13:05.060 open with each other and can kind of you know explore sexuality together and experiment together

00:13:09.600 I'm like, that's a really cool thing.

00:13:11.960 I started doing research into the lifestyle.

00:13:14.740 Like, what is this?

00:13:15.860 I started listening to podcasts and Googling and found SLS, which is swinglifestyle.com,

00:13:22.720 which is one of the biggest platforms and made a profile.

00:13:26.240 And the next thing I know, I had couples messaging me.

00:13:30.020 Okay. 1.00

00:13:30.780 Lacey gets buried in messages because she's a unicorn. 1.00

00:13:36.520 That's swing code for a single female swinger. 1.00

00:13:40.700 Was it overwhelming to be a unicorn? 0.99

00:13:44.420 Very much so.

00:13:45.680 I mean, truthfully, the options were endless.

00:13:48.560 I could just open my inbox on any random time and just scroll down and pick one.

00:13:53.440 You know, I mean, if you're a single female in the lifestyle, people just flock to you.

00:13:58.820 And Dan, being a single male is a bull.

00:14:03.620 I went out and met a bunch of couples as a single man,

00:14:06.300 which was, you know, coming out of a long-term monogamous relationship

00:14:09.340 was an interesting way to explore my sexuality and to have some experiences.

00:14:13.960 And for me, it was very positive.

00:14:16.320 And then I met this one.

00:14:19.440 Dan is on a work trip in Lacey's hometown when she first messages him.

00:14:24.060 And they hit it off.

00:14:26.160 From that point on, they meet up every time he's in town.

00:14:29.880 And it's kind of perfect.

00:14:32.520 It's just such a refreshing, I think, change of pace for me.

00:14:35.580 It's very rewarding.

00:14:36.920 You know, you just feel like you're not weird.

00:14:40.680 You're not strange.

00:14:41.480 You know, you feel like you fit in and that it's more normal than what you think.

00:14:46.040 And with that comes an exploration of how to navigate their sexually adventurous sides

00:14:50.960 with a growing emotional bond. 0.92

00:14:54.320 We were like, oh, we're both swingers and we've been, you know, having sex with all

00:14:57.280 these other couples and stuff.

00:14:58.320 Like, we're just going to be in an open relationship.

00:15:00.020 We're going to have no rules and no boundaries.

00:15:01.540 and you do what you want to do, I'll do what we want to do,

00:15:04.480 and then when we're together, we'll be together,

00:15:05.940 and it's all going to be great.

00:15:07.720 It was terrible.

00:15:08.460 And that was a nightmare.

00:15:09.620 You know what I mean?

00:15:10.020 It was just, it just was crazy.

00:15:12.280 You know, there was, we had to deal with jealousy.

00:15:14.200 We had to deal with insecurities.

00:15:15.620 We had, you know, we fought and bickered,

00:15:17.240 and, you know, I think we knew we couldn't be monogamous,

00:15:19.900 but we weren't sure how to, you know,

00:15:22.280 how to kind of manage this non-monogamy

00:15:24.140 and where the rules were and where the lines were

00:15:26.460 and where the boundaries were.

00:15:29.420 Wow.

00:15:30.660 So an open relationship is not the same thing as swinging.

00:15:35.540 This is total news to me.

00:15:38.080 Up until this point, I considered open relationships, polyamory, and ethical non-monogamy the same thing as swinging.

00:15:47.440 But the difference with swinging is that the couple is on this journey together.

00:15:53.960 And this ultimately is what works for Dan and Lacey.

00:15:57.520 In fact, they only play with others when both of them are in the same room.

00:16:04.220 In talking with Dan and Lacey, I find out they host Swingers Weekends all around the country,

00:16:09.080 and even publish a magazine about the lifestyle, which is how this community refers to their way

00:16:14.260 of life, the lifestyle. And the lifestyle is now Dan and Lacey's full-time job, which gets me

00:16:21.480 thinking even more about their predecessors. Like, how does Dan and Lacey's experience compare to what

00:16:27.680 it was like to be one of the four founding couples organizing the silver chain? I mean, if you think

00:16:33.040 about it, their newsletter was, in a way, the 1970s version of a podcast. The early 70s were

00:16:40.680 free love, suburban suffocation, and feminism on the rise. All over America, people were re-examining

00:16:48.440 relationships and marriage. Swinging might have spun out of the organized partner swapping

00:16:54.980 of U.S. military pilots who flew in World War II and the Korean conflict. It blossomed during the

00:17:02.480 decade, along with communal living, gay liberation, and extra-legal domestic partnerships, all attempts 0.56

00:17:10.120 to break the numbing shackles of buttoned-down lifestyles. That's Jack Elhai, once again reading

00:17:17.460 from his GQ article about the silver chain. In the mid-1990s, Jack was working on a book titled

00:17:24.720 Minnesota Collects, detailing the Minnesota Historical Society's vast collection, when he

00:17:31.040 asked one of the curators a question. What are some of the most interesting things you know of

00:17:36.360 in your collections, and maybe things that aren't accessed as much as they should be? And this

00:17:42.680 reference librarian, immediately mentioned the club's records.

00:17:49.340 What did you think when you first saw the newsletters?

00:17:53.620 It's a feeling I've had when I come across something and it's like an egg cracks open

00:18:01.740 and I see a yolk that is of a different color than I've ever seen a yolk before.

00:18:08.060 But it's mainly a feeling of, oh, my God, what have I gotten myself into?

00:18:24.120 What Jack gets himself into takes 20 years to get out of his head and onto the page for GQ.

00:18:31.400 He'd go back to the newsletters from time to time, looking at the pixelated black and white photos of the club's members, wondering, who are these people?

00:18:45.280 Why did they join the group?

00:18:47.760 And what is the real story here?

00:18:54.280 Were you able to contact anyone that was in the group?

00:18:57.460 I can't remember if you were able to or not.

00:19:00.880 The only one I tried to reach was the treasurer, because her name was given in full in some of the newsletters, and hers was the only one.

00:19:10.380 And I tracked her down to the senior residence where she was living.

00:19:16.060 I called there, asked for her, was put in touch with her daughter, who said that she was not in condition to speak.

00:19:26.740 Yeah.

00:19:27.540 Did you tell her that it was because of the silver chain?

00:19:30.880 Yes. I know I mentioned to her the name Silver Chain, but I didn't say Swingers Club. And I noticed when I was talking to her on the phone that she didn't flinch or even ask, what's the silver chain? But I didn't take it any further with her then.

00:19:51.300 After we hang up, Jack sends me a PDF of the newsletters,

00:20:00.980 ranging in date from October 1976 to June 1978,

00:20:05.400 along with a copy of the group's bylaws.

00:20:08.500 And these newsletters?

00:20:10.840 They're like a total time capsule,

00:20:14.020 giving me this glimpse into a world I'd never know anything about

00:20:18.400 without their existence.

00:20:21.300 On the surface, they look like they could be any community newsletter.

00:20:26.500 There's this heartfelt, ingrained earnestness that prevails,

00:20:30.640 despite the club's after-hours practices.

00:20:33.340 There are surveys, dance announcements.

00:20:37.320 Oh, and a recurring feature on the silver chain's personality of the month,

00:20:42.020 which is always a woman who is typically gorgeous

00:20:45.640 and, most importantly, never misses a dance.

00:20:51.680 There's also tons of admin, like tersely delivered details on why it takes so dang long to get your membership card.

00:21:00.600 And a somewhat desperate article titled, Do You Really Want or Read Your Newsletter?

00:21:07.120 And my answer to that question is a resounding hell yes.

00:21:11.800 But somehow, having all these copies of the newsletters, it does very little to quell my curiosity.

00:21:22.340 In fact, it completely tips the scales.

00:21:26.280 I've officially become a silver chain fanatic.

00:21:31.840 The more I read the newsletters, the more questions I have.

00:21:37.560 Like, what did people want from this group?

00:21:41.800 Aside from the obvious, are the newsletters even an accurate representation of what it was like to be in the silver chain?

00:21:50.300 And Jack's question, when did the silver chain end?

00:21:55.320 Was it in June 1978, the date of the last newsletter on record?

00:22:00.260 And why did it end?

00:22:03.340 These are questions that reveal the newsletter's limitations, or maybe the limitations of any time capsule.

00:22:11.800 Without context, these are just artifacts.

00:22:16.780 And the only way that I can answer these questions is to do the impossible.

00:22:22.740 Fifty years after the club's inception, I have to track down the Silver Chains members.

00:22:30.060 The one thing I forgot to mention about that Zoom development call with April and Jack

00:22:46.320 and about TV development in general

00:22:48.940 is that you never really know how everything will work out.

00:22:54.220 You pitch projects that never see the light of a television screen

00:22:58.120 and often toil over scripts that end up in your trash can

00:23:02.300 or on a pretty bookshelf.

00:23:06.200 But once I decide to locate the Silver Chains members,

00:23:09.760 that uncertainty morphs into determination.

00:23:13.220 I mean, there has to be a story here

00:23:15.000 that goes beyond anything I can dream up, right?

00:23:18.900 And April, she agrees.

00:23:22.000 We have lunch and think,

00:23:24.140 what if this project is a podcast?

00:23:28.740 So, I start recording everything.

00:23:32.700 And I pick up where Jack Elhye left off.

00:23:35.400 Just a couple issues.

00:23:37.660 First, the group, as we know, was anonymous.

00:23:41.520 The newsletters only identify members by first name and last initial.

00:23:46.560 Secondly, five years after his article's publication, these people are not getting any younger.

00:23:53.180 They have to be in their 70s, 80s, 90s, maybe even pushing 100, if still alive.

00:24:00.720 And a lot of them aren't.

00:24:03.940 That treasurer that Jack Elhine mentioned, the one who wasn't in a condition to speak in 2017, she's dead.

00:24:13.640 But she does have a Facebook account with 33 friends.

00:24:19.260 For someone who had a social club of over 100 couples, this friend count is a bit underwhelming.

00:24:26.300 Nonetheless, I get to work.

00:24:29.360 Actually, before I get started, one quick note.

00:24:33.360 As the newest self-appointed honorary member of the silver chain, I'll be sticking to their

00:24:38.640 code of ethics for the duration of this series.

00:24:42.220 Members will be identified by first name only, and in some cases, I'll use an alias if requested.

00:24:48.600 Okay, back to it.

00:24:52.220 I cross-referenced the names of the treasurer's Facebook friends with the names from the newsletters

00:24:57.340 on the off chance these relationships survived the past 50 years.

00:25:02.320 I just started making a list.

00:25:03.980 Like, I would section each one off by the couple's name.

00:25:07.060 And then when I found something, I would, like, paste it there.

00:25:09.360 I had, like, I think three different times where I thought I found Sharon and Don.

00:25:14.440 And I'm like, this is the Sharon and Don, I know it.

00:25:16.280 and then I realized it wasn't.

00:25:19.260 The first person I found was a guy named Michael

00:25:22.240 and I looked at his profile

00:25:24.080 and then I saw his wife's name was Mary

00:25:26.180 and I'm like, well, there's a Mike and Mary in the group.

00:25:29.700 So then I looked at, you know, I looked at Mary's

00:25:32.860 and then I saw Mary's mutual friends

00:25:36.140 and I kept seeing like a pattern of familiar names

00:25:38.800 as I would look at people,

00:25:40.580 people that I hadn't even discovered their names

00:25:42.700 in the newsletter yet.

00:25:46.280 Another search turns up, yet another obituary.

00:25:50.560 This time it's for Mike, barely a year earlier.

00:25:54.480 My only hope now is to speak with Mary.

00:26:00.780 As the phone rings, my heart starts to race.

00:26:06.600 I'm nervous.

00:26:08.740 I'm even actually a little relieved when the call goes to voicemail.

00:26:12.540 she's kept her husband's name in the voicemail greeting these are people i don't even know

00:26:19.720 but that fact just breaks my heart hi mary my name is paul diddy i'm a writer based in southern

00:26:28.020 california and i'm reaching out because i'm doing some research on documents i received

00:26:34.340 from the minnesota historical society i place additional calls to other potential silver chain

00:26:39.480 members, and what I receive are refusals to talk, a lot of disconnected phone numbers,

00:26:45.880 and I even get catfished by a bored teen pretending to be an octogenarian named Bruce.

00:26:53.360 This is not going well. I take a few days off, and then try again.

00:27:06.060 Hello?

00:27:06.700 April, hey, um, is now a good time to talk?

00:27:13.060 Yeah, totally, what's up?

00:27:14.800 I just needed someone to, like, share my excitement, because I actually talked to a Silver Chain member.

00:27:24.960 Wait, what? Oh my god, tell me everything.

00:27:28.000 I tell April about my entire process so far.

00:27:33.060 All the dead ends, the hang-ups, and how Mary finally answered.

00:27:41.020 And then when I say the name of the group, The Silver Chain,

00:27:46.140 she lets out this really, like, audible gasp.

00:27:50.000 Um, and I was like, okay, this is the right person, obviously, right? 0.99

00:27:58.440 Oh, shit, she's totally caught. 0.99

00:28:00.640 Yeah. 0.99

00:28:01.360 She was very, very nice, but also made it really clear that this is something that she did not want to discuss.

00:28:11.400 and yet in true minnesota fashion we stay on the phone for 30 minutes she tells me that she and

00:28:22.900 mike were founding members one of those couples jack l high wrote about in his article and mostly

00:28:29.220 they joined because it was something mike wanted and mary loved mike she tells me they stayed in

00:28:37.260 the silver chain until Mary became pregnant with their second child, and their five-year-old

00:28:42.320 started asking questions about what was going on in the basement during their parties.

00:28:47.500 But again, Mary doesn't want to talk about it.

00:28:52.340 She says that if anyone's going to give me information, that it's Carol.

00:28:58.900 Carol? That's the same name that I've been seeing as a byline in practically every newsletter.

00:29:07.260 And I have to say, more than any other contributor, I feel like it's Carol's words that paint

00:29:14.660 the picture of the silver chain as a warm, loving, and progressive group.

00:29:21.400 Carol and her husband George are one of the four founding couples of the silver chain.

00:29:27.180 Carol leads the group's monthly discussion panel called New Horizons, where the topics

00:29:31.720 range from proper consent to the dynamics of an open marriage.

00:29:35.620 and is the sole member to attend an international swinging conference,

00:29:40.540 the Lifestyle 77 Convention in San Diego.

00:29:45.180 It's Carol, more than any other contributor,

00:29:48.940 who makes her presence known in these newsletters.

00:29:52.320 There's something about Carol's writing

00:29:54.500 and the topics she chooses to write about

00:29:57.080 that provides a heartfelt yet cerebral approach to the lifestyle.

00:30:02.940 Through Carol's contributions to the newsletters,

00:30:05.620 You can totally sense her excitement, not necessarily for partner swapping, but for the fact that she's found a way to express and expand herself.

00:30:17.300 I find out that Carol's husband, George, is no longer alive, but that Carol is.

00:30:24.580 I feel like Carol will definitely shed some light on things.

00:30:29.200 She's very, I have no doubt in my mind that she'll give me a very thorough discussion.

00:30:37.760 I call every Carol in Minnesota.

00:30:42.160 And there's a lot of them.

00:30:45.000 And then I realize Carol's not even in Minnesota.

00:30:49.200 She lives in California, where there are even more Carols.

00:30:54.460 But I won't let that stop me.

00:30:57.220 I am determined.

00:30:59.200 And guess what? After seven weeks and thousands of phone calls, I think I found her.

00:31:19.320 Hello?

00:31:20.340 This call is being recorded.

00:31:22.820 Hi, Carol.

00:31:30.160 Harold, the one person who holds the answers to all my questions, hangs up on me.

00:31:43.840 This is a major setback for me, and I'm really disappointed.

00:31:49.460 I kind of feel, honestly, I'm feeling right now like this is just a lost cause.

00:31:54.160 I feel like I'm hitting a lot of dead ends right now.

00:31:57.140 And, um, I feel really fucking discouraged, but at the same time, you know, this is this

00:32:06.200 person's life and I don't want to be someone that's going to violate someone's privacy.

00:32:14.980 I always went into this, um, thinking that I would reach people that would say, oh yes,

00:32:24.240 I did that and would talk about it like I just I thought that I would find people that would be

00:32:31.540 open to having discussions with me and maybe even be proud for lack of a better word about it and

00:32:42.560 man I'm just not finding those people I don't know if they're in existence and if they were

00:32:49.480 I don't know if they're still alive.

00:32:51.340 I just, oh, this is rough.

00:33:19.480 maybe this was it like maybe this was all the story that i was going to get from

00:33:28.480 living people and that i just had to accept that what could be there is just not something that i

00:33:35.920 can retrieve and yet there's a part of me that just can't leave this alone without answers

00:33:43.580 and I really have to consider why am I so obsessed with this and I think it's a combination of things

00:33:54.400 the time the place and this one element that I realize I'm most drawn to the act of leading

00:34:03.900 a secret life as a gay kid growing up in the late 70s and 80s I can relate to this need to

00:34:13.560 keep a part of myself secret. Leading a double life to keep judgment at bay was crucial to my

00:34:19.840 survival in Bemidji, Minnesota, the small town I grew up in, a small town that felt worlds away

00:34:26.100 from the excitement and promise of the Twin Cities. There's something I've learned as an adult

00:34:33.020 about nine-year-old me. My obsession wasn't really with mysteries. I went door-to-door

00:34:40.560 to those homes in the woods because I wanted to be welcomed in. I wanted to see how others lived

00:34:48.180 because a part of my life at the time just didn't feel right. And I wondered if there

00:34:56.700 was even a world that I could fit into. I believed that a life in the Twin Cities

00:35:03.580 held the key to happiness.

00:35:06.900 And now, decades later,

00:35:09.560 I'm seeing that many of its inhabitants

00:35:11.740 were also seeking a sense of belonging

00:35:14.940 and still harboring their own secrets.

00:35:20.600 It was a notion I hadn't considered at the time,

00:35:24.460 that we all feel disconnected in some way.

00:35:29.460 We're all looking for a connection,

00:35:31.760 to feel seen and heard and known.

00:35:38.640 This is the part I can't let go of.

00:35:46.500 So, I call Carol again.

00:35:50.960 And this time, while she doesn't hang up, she keeps it brief.

00:35:55.680 She sounds a little bit like a stern, mildly irritated schoolteacher,

00:36:00.860 explaining a lesson for a third time.

00:36:04.080 Total Mrs. Thompson from second grade vibes. 0.77

00:36:07.680 Then she tells me she's having medical issues 0.95

00:36:10.880 and says for me to call back in a few weeks.

00:36:14.580 I don't trust a whole lot of what's going on

00:36:17.100 at her house right now.

00:36:20.020 That's Kimmer, Carol's neighbor and daughter.

00:36:24.700 After Carol's initial hangup,

00:36:26.760 I expand my search beyond the silver chain

00:36:29.080 and reach out to Kimmer.

00:36:30.860 And to my surprise, Kimmer was well aware of her parents' involvement in the silver chain.

00:36:37.920 She even encourages Carol to talk to me.

00:36:41.540 I was excited. I'm like, oh, look, somebody wants to talk to you about something you've done, and isn't this cool, and yada, yada, yada.

00:36:48.420 And then, like, a couple of days later, I got a text, I think, that said, when you have a chance, would you come over and talk?

00:36:57.680 Because I really need to talk.

00:36:59.280 I'm like, okay.

00:37:01.680 So when I got over there and talked to her,

00:37:04.760 she wanted to tell me about how squeaky clean the silver chain was

00:37:11.880 and that it was just a dance club.

00:37:15.760 Squeaky clean.

00:37:17.760 Those are the exact same words Carol said to me.

00:37:22.260 Carol picked up and it's been two weeks.

00:37:24.660 She's feeling better but still has a lot of doctor's appointments.

00:37:28.580 And in talking with her, we spoke about 10 minutes.

00:37:32.080 She let me know that what set this organization, the Silver Chain, apart from other groups like it is that they kept it squeaky clean.

00:37:40.280 And the second time she said squeaky clean, or the third time, I asked her what she meant by that.

00:37:47.820 And she said, no drugs, no violence, and no club-sponsored interactions of any kind.

00:37:56.200 so we can assume what that means right okay i'm totally confused this is not what i was expecting

00:38:06.280 at all is the same carol who wrote about alternative lifestyles consent sensual touching

00:38:14.900 and female empowerment the woman i believe to be so open-minded and ahead of her time 0.70

00:38:20.920 now clutching her pearls 1.00

00:38:23.180 and flat-out denying her participation

00:38:26.320 in a group she co-founded?

00:38:30.280 Maybe it's her participation in another group

00:38:33.700 that's holding her back,

00:38:35.440 one that's given her a newfound sense of belonging

00:38:37.940 with a whole other set of bylaws. 0.99

00:38:41.900 To be very honest, I think the Christian thing 0.98

00:38:45.520 is why mom is dodging you. 0.98

00:38:48.640 because the last god knows how many years of their lives mom and dad have been totally into

00:38:56.600 listening to gospel music and going to gospel things and it's like uh

00:39:06.800 okay and now that dad's gone um i think she's still in that phase

00:39:17.720 So it doesn't really fit with swinging.

00:39:22.360 And then finally, Carol agrees to meet with me.

00:39:26.580 Carol's daughter, Kimmer, also arranges to give me some of her time.

00:39:30.340 So I book a flight to Sacramento and get a rental car to complete the drive to Modesto.

00:39:37.220 A few days before the trip, I call Carol's number to see if I can bring lunch for our meeting.

00:39:42.980 Carol's grandson, who is also her caregiver, picks up the phone.

00:39:46.720 They tell me they'd like Arby's roast beef sandwiches.

00:39:50.780 Well, gotta admit, I do love their curly fries.

00:39:55.540 So my bags are packed.

00:39:58.240 I'm in front of my computer with the production team,

00:40:00.460 and I'm doing a final run-through of all the questions I have for Carol

00:40:04.740 when I hear the ping of an incoming email.

00:40:10.200 You guys aren't going to believe this,

00:40:12.240 but just while we were talking i got a email from kim carol's daughter yeah and uh she just

00:40:22.600 let me know that carol was taken to the hospital on sunday night and they found it necessary to

00:40:29.340 put her on a respirator no yeah it says she's currently stable but the nurse says she has a

00:40:38.480 hard road to recovery.

00:40:43.920 Yeah, and she wrote,

00:40:45.160 I'm sorry that you won't get to chat with her,

00:40:48.240 and I'm not sure that she will recover enough

00:40:50.620 that you will ever be able to.

00:40:57.920 This season on Time Capsule,

00:40:59.860 we'll find out what happens

00:41:01.720 when an archive that was never meant to be found

00:41:04.360 is discovered.

00:41:05.960 And while I learned that many people

00:41:07.840 do not want to talk.

00:41:09.800 You guys do not realize you're playing with fire.

00:41:14.460 There are also plenty of others who do.

00:41:19.080 It was very odd the first time I went

00:41:22.200 because my parents were there.

00:41:24.540 In an ecstasy is,

00:41:25.920 there was a little bit of that floating around back then.

00:41:29.400 This is a real party. 1.00

00:41:31.140 He just had to fuck everything. 1.00

00:41:34.680 He probably would fuck a snake if you held it still. 1.00

00:41:37.840 We'll see you next time. 1.00

00:42:07.840 Time Capsule theme music is composed by Louis Stevens.

00:42:12.780 Curious to hear how Swing Nation's Dan and Lacey came out to the world as swingers?

00:42:17.540 Visit us at timecapsule.substack.com for newsletter excerpts, listener discussions, bonus episodes, and more.

00:42:25.880 This show is inspired by a GQ article titled,

00:42:29.260 The 70 Swingers Club and the Secret Archive It Left Behind, from writer Jack Elhye.

00:42:34.220 That will be linked in our show notes.

00:42:36.660 Jack's research was extremely helpful as we dug into this project, so thank you, Jack.

00:42:41.800 In addition to Jack's article, special thanks to Lori Williamson and the Minnesota Historical Society for access to the Silver Chains newsletters.

00:42:50.220 Segments of this episode were recorded at Podcast Place Studio in Long Beach, California.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - March 03, 2024

Sunday Nice Things： The Silver Chain

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