Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Things： True Crime with RedRum

00:00:00.000 hey y'all joe here happy sunday friends happy freaking sunday now a lot of you have been

00:00:15.100 emailing me asking me for different kinds of podcasts uh one of the things that our audience

00:00:21.800 is really into is true crime and i get it a lot of people are very into true crime in fact it is

00:00:29.840 the most popular genre of podcast after two dude celebrities talking on a microphone together.

00:00:38.540 So I've been going through a bunch of different true crime podcasts and trying to find some that

00:00:43.960 I like. For me, a lot of it boils down to the narrator. It does. It does. A person's voice

00:00:50.740 like really does it for me. And I get it. I know there are people out there, mostly men,

00:00:55.760 who think that my voice is quite annoying. And you know what I say to them? Don't fucking listen

00:01:01.560 to me. Don't fucking listen to me. Oh. Anywho, I've got a new show for you to listen to today. 1.00

00:01:11.840 It is true crime. It is sort of grisly, to be honest, so maybe it's not for you today. Maybe

00:01:17.860 this is just a warning for you to be like, hey, okay, yeah, I don't need this. I don't need to

00:01:24.040 think about bad things happening to good women, which is, let's be honest, the majority of true

00:01:30.000 crime podcasts. I would actually, I'm wondering if a true crime show about men getting murdered

00:01:36.280 would do well with women. I don't think so. I actually don't. And there've been whole studies 0.98

00:01:43.400 about this, about why women listen to shows and watch shows about women being horrifically

00:01:50.820 murdered. And some experts have said that it's because, you know, we almost just want to want

00:01:57.700 to listen to this and want to play out these fears in our heads because they're very real fears.

00:02:02.780 Because as women, we often aren't as safe in the world as men. But I would be curious about a true

00:02:08.860 crime podcast that's just like called Dead Dudes. I'd listen to that show. Maybe I'll make that show.

00:02:16.860 anyway today we are listening to red rum it is a true crime podcast focusing on the real victims

00:02:25.980 of crimes each episode follows a new case every week it is real life real victims real crime from

00:02:33.580 real source materials it's a spotify top 20 show with grace cordell presenting each and every case

00:02:41.040 and she does a really great job of covering lesser known crimes, which I always think are

00:02:47.280 important to highlight. So if you enjoy this show, you can binge all of them wherever you

00:02:51.540 get your podcasts. It is called Red Rum, and I think you're going to like it.

00:03:02.520 The perpetrator of this crime had worked as a sheriff's deputy, which meant he knew what it

00:03:07.220 was like to have authority over people and what people would be prepared to do if you showed them

00:03:11.980 your badge. He would later go on to use that badge to lure his victims into a place where there was

00:03:17.280 no way of escape. I'm going to start this episode with a quote from one of the killers. Fair warning

00:03:24.560 it's pretty gruesome and we're getting straight into it here. The quote comes from a man called

00:03:29.500 David Allen Gore. His last name Gore is pretty appropriate here. Quote, for years I abducted,

00:03:36.400 raped and tortured and killed women right in my hometown and no one ever suspected me. I learned

00:03:42.420 how crimes were investigated, what cops looked for and I honed my skills to a science. It was a warm

00:03:50.100 morning in July 1981 that Judith Daly got her two teenage daughters ready and into her car. She was

00:03:56.680 living in California but had returned to her hometown just a few miles south of Vero Beach

00:04:01.760 for that summer. Judith dropped the girls at the beach with the instructions that she'd be back a

00:04:06.840 little later to pick them up. She then drove on a little further to a quieter area near Round Island

00:04:12.120 Park so she could have some alone time with her book. She spent a good few hours there before

00:04:17.640 deciding that it was probably about time to go pick her daughters up but as she tried to start

00:04:23.380 her car she could tell something was off. It just wouldn't start. By some kind of incredible

00:04:29.600 coincidence, an officer walked towards the car and asked what was going on and if she needed

00:04:34.520 any help. Judith told him what had happened and that she didn't really know why her car wasn't

00:04:39.980 starting so she might need a mechanic. The officer said he could drive her to a nearby payphone to

00:04:45.160 call for help. Judith agreed and got into the officer's car and they drove off into the distance

00:04:51.080 but Judith was never seen alive again. It turned out that officer who had agreed to help Judith

00:04:58.360 with her car troubles had been lying in wait for her. He knew her car wouldn't start because he'd

00:05:04.200 made sure of it. He'd planned this and his plan had worked perfectly. That man's name was David

00:05:11.100 Alan Gore and Judith was by no means his first victim and she certainly wouldn't be his last.

00:05:17.060 It's difficult to know exactly when David's perverted and shocking behaviour started but

00:05:22.200 we do know that one of the earliest examples of this was when he was working at a local petrol

00:05:27.080 station as a teenager. He decided to make a hole in one of the bathroom walls in the men's toilets.

00:05:33.880 This hole gave direct viewing access through to the women's bathrooms. There's no way to know for 0.98

00:05:39.300 sure how long this went on for but we do know it only stopped because his boss caught him and very

00:05:44.780 quickly fired David. David wasn't too bothered about getting fired though. He had more important

00:05:50.920 things to focus on. He'd always been close to his friend and cousin Fred Waterfield as there was

00:05:56.920 only a one-year age gap between them. As they got older into their teenage years, they realised that

00:06:02.220 both of them had a desire to hurt women. They spent their days speaking about how much they wanted to

00:06:07.440 just take women and do things to them. Specifically, they wanted to sexually assault women and, spurred 0.97

00:06:13.940 on by one another, it wasn't long before they started trying. Their first victim was Fred's 0.69

00:06:19.520 younger cousin Wendy, who was also David's younger sister. They both plotted together and eventually

00:06:26.060 with David's help, Fred sexually assaulted Wendy. Their teenage years continued with each of the

00:06:32.560 boys cooking up horrific fantasies about what they wanted to do to unknowing female victims.

00:06:38.760 But when David was 21, certainly to an outside eye, he seemingly started to settle down. He

00:06:45.040 married a woman called Donna and the couple had a son. Now alongside that, Fred had also met and

00:06:51.100 married a woman, coincidentally also called Donna, and they had twin daughters. But becoming fathers

00:06:57.460 definitely didn't give them any sense of morals or slow down their sadistic fantasies. They decided

00:07:02.640 they still wanted to act on them, and in 1976, three years after the birth of Fred's twins,

00:07:08.580 they did. 27-year-old Diane Sullivan Smalley was driving down a road on her way to Lake Wales

00:07:14.740 when she heard loud pops. She then felt her car veering off to the side, and she realised that

00:07:20.540 she had a flat tyre, possibly two. So she pulled over to the side of the road and got out to

00:07:25.360 inspect what had happened. What Diane didn't know was that Fred and David had seen her driving along

00:07:31.000 and they'd honed in on her as a victim of theirs. They'd been following Diane's car and then one of

00:07:37.380 the men leaned out of the car holding a rifle. He then aimed the gun towards Diane's car and quickly

00:07:43.420 shot a number of rounds. None of the bullets hit Diane but that was never his goal. He'd been aiming

00:07:49.420 for the tyres and he got them. The men watched as Diane pulled over and they pulled alongside her

00:07:55.240 asking if she needed any help. But before she could even answer them, Diane felt a gun in her ribs 0.86

00:08:01.040 and David pushed her into the back of their vehicle. Diane was terrified but she knew she

00:08:06.380 needed to get out now or she may not make it out at all. She clocked the headlights of another car

00:08:11.280 coming down the roads towards them and so she flung the back door open and bolted out of the car

00:08:16.400 into the road and the oncoming vehicle's path. 0.89

00:08:20.120 The couple driving that car immediately stopped and Diane got inside.

00:08:24.300 David and Fred were too scared they would mess up

00:08:26.280 if they tried to take on Diane and the other two people

00:08:29.420 and so they just sped off into the distance.

00:08:32.180 But this was just the beginning.

00:08:34.440 In July of 1976, 20-year-old Angela Hommel left her house

00:08:39.420 and got into her car ready for the drive to work.

00:08:41.740 As she was about to set off, she realised that she had two flat tyres.

00:08:46.400 It was odd to have two flats at the same time, having seemingly come from nowhere,

00:08:50.620 but Angela didn't worry herself with how this had happened.

00:08:54.380 Right now, her main focus was on how she would get to work.

00:08:57.780 Angela's ex-husband, Bob, had previously recommended a mechanic he knew called Fred.

00:09:03.600 This Fred is obviously the man we know to be a depraved, twisted individual,

00:09:08.420 but of course Angela had no idea.

00:09:11.760 Fred arrived at Angela's place and told her to get into his car,

00:09:14.920 saying he'd take her to work first and then fix the car.

00:09:18.380 Because she knew of him from her ex-husband

00:09:20.380 she wasn't in the slightest bit afraid or suspicious of Fred

00:09:23.440 and so got into his car.

00:09:25.320 But when he took a detour into the orange groves

00:09:27.960 she asked what he was doing.

00:09:30.080 Fred simply said that he knew a shortcut to Angela's workplace

00:09:32.720 and as she was running late because of car troubles

00:09:35.480 this shortcut would save time.

00:09:37.820 But as they turned a corner

00:09:39.520 Fred drove the car into a ditch and it became stuck.

00:09:43.200 Fred got out of the car and told Angela to stay put.

00:09:46.440 His cousin David lived nearby and so he'd get him to come and help.

00:09:50.080 But when Fred returned with David close behind, they had an evil kind of smirk on their faces.

00:09:56.500 Fred reached over to the glove box and pulled a gun out. 0.99

00:09:59.900 They both raped Angela with the other holding the gun to her head 0.81

00:10:03.700 and then David pulled out a knife and pressed it onto Angela's skin. 0.99

00:10:07.700 He said they were going to cut her up and feed her to the alligators

00:10:10.500 but for some reason that Angela still to this day does not know the two men then decided that as long

00:10:16.560 as she promised not to tell anyone about what had happened they actually would drive her home and let

00:10:20.620 her go they did drive her home but Angela went straight to the hospital to have her injuries

00:10:24.940 checked and to report the rape she knew both the perpetrators by name and so they were brought in

00:10:29.880 for questioning both David and Fred said that yes they had had sex with Angela but they insisted it

00:10:36.120 was consensual and in a sadly unsurprising but extremely frustrating series of events

00:10:43.240 Angela was not believed. They even got her to do a polygraph test something we know is highly

00:10:49.300 unreliable and when it came back the officer told Angela she was lying and that she could be

00:10:54.360 prosecuted for perjury. Because of this the case never went any further and both men were free to

00:10:59.380 leave. If the case had been properly investigated at the time the officers would likely have found

00:11:04.540 that Angela's car tyres hadn't come upon two coincidental punctures, but instead they had both

00:11:10.320 been intentionally slashed. I mentioned earlier that one of these men used his sheriff's deputy

00:11:16.300 badge to lure his victims. That was David. He had got a job in his hometown, but it was as an

00:11:22.460 auxiliary sheriff's detectives, so he actually had no right to ever pull anyone over or get them to

00:11:28.220 come with him. Fred said that for every attractive woman David could lure using his badge, he

00:11:34.480 would pay up to $1,000. It almost seems as though David was sort of answering to Fred. Although he's

00:11:40.860 very much an active and willing participant, oftentimes going out on his own, he was eager

00:11:45.980 to impress his cousin who was a year older than him but also is just keen to exert his power over

00:11:51.440 younger, vulnerable women and girls. It was the 19th of February 1981 that David marched up to a

00:11:57.860 school bus that was just pulling up to drop students off. One teenager, Ying Wa Ling, a well-liked and

00:12:04.320 award-winning math student at Vero Beach High School, walked off the school bus and began to

00:12:09.020 walk down the road to her house. But that's when David struck. He'd been stalking Ying for a number

00:12:14.980 of weeks and he knew her routine. He showed Ying his badge and told her she needed to come with

00:12:19.800 him. This is the 1980s and there's this old man showing her his official badge. Of course she's

00:12:26.580 obliged. She didn't know any other way to respond to someone of this authority and so David drove

00:12:32.600 down the road with her in the car towards this girl's home. At this point Ying's worst worry was

00:12:39.360 probably that she was going to have to explain this to her parents. What she'd have to explain

00:12:43.560 exactly she probably didn't know but after David had pulled his car over in front of the house

00:12:49.200 he got out of the car, knocked on the door and waited for it to open. Ying's mother answered

00:12:54.500 and that's when David asked her to come get in his car explaining that her daughter was in some kind

00:12:59.360 of trouble. But as soon as Ying's mother, Xiang, was inside of the car, David raced towards the

00:13:05.680 isolated citrus grove where he worked. He abducted the mother and daughter, making sure to handcuff

00:13:11.480 them together so there was very little chance of them escaping. He parked up and then he dragged

00:13:16.300 Ying and Xiang out of his vehicle before calling Fred. Fred was at work in Orlando but he said he

00:13:22.060 was going to finish up now and head straight to where David was at. Meanwhile, back at Ying's

00:13:27.200 family home, her brother had returned home from school and was confused to find the front doors

00:13:31.420 open and, inside the house, there was no sign of his sister or mother. He alerted the police but

00:13:38.300 there wasn't a whole lot for them to go on. No one had seen anything suspicious and, although the

00:13:44.400 front door was open, there were no other obvious signs of anything out of the ordinary or any sign

00:13:49.940 of distress. Meanwhile, across town, Fred arrived to where David was holding Ying and Xiang. Once he

00:13:56.740 arrived, Fred confirmed that David had done a good job and he agreed to pay him $400 for each of the

00:14:02.520 women. 48-year-old Xiang and 17-year-old Ying were worth a grand total of $800 to him. As a gesture

00:14:11.680 of goodwill, Fred said that on top of paying the $800 total payment, he'd also allow David to

00:14:18.340 sexually assault both women. David and Fred tied the two women to a tree and they both raped Ying 0.96

00:14:25.660 before David went on to do the same to Xiang.

00:14:29.060 Fred decided that he didn't want to do that because he didn't like how old she was.

00:14:34.240 It wouldn't matter what Fred did or didn't want to do in the end though. 0.78

00:14:38.300 He and David had tied Xiang so tightly and in such a way that restricted her breathing

00:14:42.700 that she ended up choking to death.

00:14:46.000 I couldn't find the specific detail on how they killed Ying but they did

00:14:49.780 and either way, once both women were dead, they dismembered the bodies and began disposing of them.

00:14:55.660 They'd already planned this out.

00:14:57.200 They had oil drums waiting, which they filled up with various dismembered body parts,

00:15:01.900 before burying them nearby and then leaving the scene.

00:15:05.840 Okay, let's take a quick break here.

00:15:07.500 We'll be right back.

00:15:20.940 The cousins kept in contact over the next few months,

00:15:24.080 promising each other that they would do this all again sometime soon and then in July of that same

00:15:29.640 year David found his next victim. He'd been spending the last few months working still as an

00:15:36.000 auxiliary sheriff's deputy and now he knew full well how much power his badge could get him. He'd

00:15:41.940 been using it on night time shifts to eye up who his next victim would be and that's when he honed 0.79

00:15:46.880 in on 35 year old Judith Daly. Judith is who we started the story with. She's the woman who couldn't 0.64

00:15:52.920 start her car. We know she dropped her two teenage daughters off at the beach and then drove down to 0.52

00:15:57.640 that quieter area to read her book. What Judith didn't know was that David had seen her set up

00:16:03.000 her beach chair and start to read and in that moment he decided he was going to abduct her.

00:16:08.240 And so he silently snuck up to her car and managed to somehow tamper with it so that she wouldn't be

00:16:14.580 able to drive on. When Judith eventually went back to her car and realised it wouldn't start up

00:16:19.080 she was probably relieved to see an officer flashing his badge walking up to help her.

00:16:24.720 David said he could drive her to a payphone and of course she agreed,

00:16:28.520 ever so thankful that he just happened to be there.

00:16:31.680 But as soon as she got into his car, David pulled out his gun and put handcuffs on her.

00:16:36.800 He then drove to a secluded area he'd scoped out earlier and met up with Fred.

00:16:41.160 Fred paid David $1,500 for his abduction of Judith.

00:16:45.040 the two men then both raped judith before david killed her by strangulation they decided this

00:16:52.160 time that the easiest way to get rid of her body was to dump it into a swamp close by 0.60

00:16:56.920 and let the alligators eat the remains david then called judith's family telling them that

00:17:02.680 she was having car trouble and so wouldn't be able to pick the girls up from the beach

00:17:06.380 i really i can't work out why they decided to do this other than to perhaps stall for a bit of time

00:17:14.380 even so it seems wild to sort of insert yourself into the case like this but we have seen people

00:17:21.220 do that time and time again just to be close to the case so perhaps this is what he was doing

00:17:26.000 either way when judith didn't return her family called the police and to be honest it does seem

00:17:32.480 as though they acted quickly they had a sighting of david gore with blood on his clothing in the

00:17:38.520 same area as Judith was last seen. They managed to track down her car and on closer inspection

00:17:44.460 they saw the coil wire had been pulled and it was evident of an intentional tampering.

00:17:50.780 After that they questioned David but he made up some story about having been in that area to check

00:17:56.380 the tides. The police obviously did not believe him and they managed to get a warrant to search

00:18:01.520 his house and vehicle. They found two hairs caught in his radio holder and when they compared them to

00:18:07.300 the hairs found in Judith's hairbrush, they were found to be a match. However, without a body or

00:18:14.000 any more evidence, the investigating officer was told there was nothing else he could do,

00:18:18.700 especially after David got himself a lawyer. And so once again, he was free to leave.

00:18:25.100 It was less than one week after the murder of Judith that David wanted to kill again.

00:18:30.520 This time, he set his sights on an 18-year-old called Dana, who he walked up to and said he

00:18:36.080 needed to ask her a few questions about a recent burglary in the area. He said that someone had

00:18:40.960 identified her as being involved. Dana seemed unsure but when David showed her his badge she

00:18:48.060 thought she had no choice but to go with him. She followed David out into an isolated road but

00:18:53.780 thankfully some fishermen were nearby and David just panicked on seeing them and told Dana to go

00:19:00.080 home. When Dana did eventually arrive home she told her parents what happened and her dad was

00:19:06.160 immediately suspicious. He filed a complaint to the police and they acted quickly bringing David

00:19:11.480 in and actually arresting him and most importantly firing him and confiscating his badge. The badge

00:19:18.320 was the only way that he had any kind of success in abducting the previous victims. Without it he

00:19:24.060 worried he wouldn't be able to trick anyone to go with him and so he decided he needed a new

00:19:29.180 plan of action. This time he was going to have to use the method of surprise to get his victims.

00:19:35.600 He knew people were prone to leaving their cars unlocked if they locked them at all and so he

00:19:40.340 found a car he'd just seen a woman getting out of and he got inside the back seat. He hid there

00:19:46.740 lying in wait. Once the woman returned he decided he was going to use his gun to make her do whatever 0.98

00:19:53.020 he wanted and he still had his handcuffs so he would render her helpless as soon as he possibly

00:19:57.940 could. And he put his plan into action soon after. A young woman, Marilyn Owens, was just finishing

00:20:05.260 up a doctor's appointment and began walking back to her car when she glanced to the back seat.

00:20:10.700 She saw someone inside. She could just make out a dark figure and so began screaming.

00:20:16.740 It just so happened that one of the sheriff's deputies was coming out of the doctors at the

00:20:21.000 same time and heard Marilyn's screams. The officer rushed over and found David in the back seat with

00:20:26.880 handcuffs, a gun, a police scanner, and he seemed to be a bit drunk. The officer asked David what

00:20:33.620 he was doing, but any excuse he tried to make was not believed by the officer, and so he was

00:20:38.340 actually charged with armed trespassing. And because this was just a matter of days after

00:20:43.100 the incident with the teenager and her dad, and his badge being taken, David was sentenced to

00:20:48.500 five years in prison. He ended up, however, only serving a little less than half that five-year

00:20:54.900 sentence and he was released in March of 1983 on parole but his time in prison had done nothing

00:21:01.820 to help him reflect on what he'd done. He did get offered psychiatric assessment and therapy whilst

00:21:06.820 he was in prison but he refused and he came out more determined than ever to continue with his

00:21:13.000 brutal and sadistic ways. It was less than two months after that that David was driving down a

00:21:18.980 road in Vero Beach and he came across a sex worker looking for a client. David picked her up

00:21:24.760 but the woman could just sense something was wrong. She'd been working the streets for some 0.77

00:21:29.820 time and her instincts were usually right. She managed to force her way out of his car and ran

00:21:35.400 away. And there were many other close escapes from other women that David abducted. One woman had

00:21:41.640 been taken after her car had broken down and David later admitted to tying her down and shaving off

00:21:47.620 her pubic hair which he kept as a kind of trophy. That's when David returned home and Fred decided

00:21:53.460 to join him for their next killing mission. On the 20th of May 1983, David and Fred set out,

00:22:01.200 driving again down Vero Beach, and this time they came across two young teenagers hitchhiking for a

00:22:08.280 ride. Angelica La Valle, known as Angel, and Barbara Ann Byer, known as Barbie, were both

00:22:15.420 just 14 years old. It was extremely concerning to Barbie's parents when she didn't return home

00:22:21.360 that afternoon. What they wouldn't find out for another four months was that Barbie and Angel had

00:22:27.260 gotten into the back seat of David's vehicle. He and Fred had seen the two teenagers hitchhiking

00:22:32.160 and saw it as the perfect opportunity. David immediately pointed his gun at the girls when 0.97

00:22:37.580 they were inside the car and handcuffed them. Fred then told David to take the wheel and he

00:22:43.200 climbed into the back where he sexually assaulted both of them and eventually Fred joined in.

00:22:48.920 This went on for hours until eventually David raised his gun 0.96

00:22:52.840 and callously shot both girls in the head.

00:22:56.280 As was becoming quite a tradition at this point,

00:22:59.380 David then dismembered both the bodies

00:23:01.200 before they drove to dump them in various areas of Vero Beach,

00:23:05.060 including in a canal.

00:23:08.100 OK, let's take a quick break here. We'll be right back.

00:23:18.380 It was two months after that that David and Fred decided to look for their next

00:23:27.980 and what would be their final victims.

00:23:31.140 They again picked up two teenage hitchhikers who were travelling north up to a different beach,

00:23:36.560 16-year-old Lynn Elliott and 14-year-old Regan Martin.

00:23:41.180 The pair had never hitchhiked before.

00:23:43.540 In fact, on this particular day, they'd been planning to get a ride with a friend,

00:23:47.400 but for some reason they decided last minute that they were going to hitchhike instead.

00:23:53.260 Lynn's dad would later say that if he'd known about it, he would never have let them go.

00:23:58.240 But, quote, kids are really trusting.

00:24:01.560 David grabbed the gun and pointed at the girls.

00:24:04.740 At first they thought this was a joke, but David quickly told them no, this was serious.

00:24:10.720 After David and Fred handcuffed the girls and were headed down the street back towards David's parents' house,

00:24:16.660 Fred looked out of the driver's side window and he saw his sister. We don't know for sure why but

00:24:22.720 for some reason, probably panic, Fred decided he didn't want to be involved with this right now.

00:24:28.360 He decided instead to go home and he left David with Lynn and Regan. He took them back to his

00:24:34.660 family home, tied them up in different rooms and sexually assaulted them. But as David was sexually 0.76

00:24:41.160 assaulting Regan. He was obviously in a different room to Lynn and Lynn saw this as possibly her

00:24:46.980 only chance to escape. She did manage to break free from her restraints but now she had to get

00:24:52.700 out of the house. She pelted forwards towards the front door and she did manage to get it open and

00:24:57.900 get outside. She had seen freedom. All she needed to do now was to flag down a passerby or get to

00:25:04.620 another house. But David had heard the front door open and was running at full speed out of the

00:25:11.260 house and towards her, and Lynn wasn't wearing any shoes. In fact, she was naked, so she was

00:25:16.720 barefoot on this rocky driveway outside, desperately trying to make it just a few strides further

00:25:21.680 forward. She didn't get much further, though. David was quickly upon her. He raised the gun

00:25:28.220 and frantically pulled the trigger twice, shooting Lynn in the head. She slumped to the floor,

00:25:33.700 dead and David dragged her body into the boot or trunk of his nearby car. This had all happened

00:25:41.520 completely unexpectedly and it was the middle of the day. Now what David hadn't counted on

00:25:47.360 was a teenage boy who had just happened to be riding his bike past David's family home

00:25:52.900 and that boy had seen everything. He darted back to his house and told his parents who called the

00:25:59.160 police. At the same time, in an attempt to throw police off, David made a 911 call himself and

00:26:07.060 reported that he'd seen a man chasing a girl and he gave the address as a few blocks east of his

00:26:12.240 own house. But dispatch could see that the call had come from David's house and so police continued

00:26:18.520 there, arriving outside in just a matter of minutes. As they were waiting outside, one of the officers

00:26:24.640 spotted David's car parked and that same officer saw that there was a small pool of blood underneath

00:26:30.380 the car. He looked to see where the blood was coming from and it was clear it was actively

00:26:35.360 dripping from the boot. As they popped it open they found Lynn's lifeless body. She clearly

00:26:41.940 suffered a gunshot to the head and she was deceased. The police tried to call David and to get him to

00:26:47.980 surrender. Now they knew that he's armed and they didn't at this point know that there was another

00:26:53.640 girl inside the property. So they just began this standoff that ended up lasting over an hour and a

00:26:59.360 half. Eventually, the police decided to raid the house and force their way inside. David surrendered

00:27:05.740 and he was taken into police custody. But of course, the police went on to search the house

00:27:10.940 and once they got upstairs into the attic, they found Regan. She was lying naked and had been

00:27:16.380 tied up with electrical cords, which had also been tied to the beams of the house. Regan was still

00:27:22.180 alive. David knew that once he'd been caught there was no way of getting out of what he'd done

00:27:27.920 and because of this he told police a lot. He even gave up his cousin Fred and because police had

00:27:34.720 details of a previous claim against the two of them for the rape on Angela, the one that was

00:27:39.220 eventually dismissed, they did believe him. David admitted that he and Fred had been in the process

00:27:45.620 of buying a house in the middle of nowhere. You couldn't see the house from the road because it

00:27:49.840 was set back in the woods. He admitted they planned to use it as a lair and would continue

00:27:54.340 hunting down girls and women and bring them back there. Oh and get this, David had a real solid

00:28:00.580 reason for doing all these horrific and brutal things. He blamed his ex-wife who had left him

00:28:06.700 and taken his two sons. He said he'd built up anger towards women because of her and he vented

00:28:12.380 that through murder. David even admitted to having killed his ex-wife's sister Joanne.

00:28:18.720 He had murdered her and then, quote, skinned her like a deer before cutting her up and burying the

00:28:25.160 pieces, something we know he then went on to do in most of the subsequent murders. Police soon

00:28:30.780 arrested Fred and brought him in for questioning. Thankfully, they didn't need him to be super

00:28:35.380 cooperative because David had given them so much information already. He told them about the other

00:28:40.500 girls and women the pair had abducted, raped and killed, and he even led them to various places

00:28:45.700 where the pair had dumped the remains. The only reason David gave up his cousin Fred and gave

00:28:51.120 them so much detail was because he was offered a plea deal. If he told police about the crimes

00:28:56.620 including disclosing the locations of the victims bodies and if he agreed to testify against Fred

00:29:02.760 then the death penalty would be off the table. The authorities managed to find some of the women's

00:29:08.740 remains including Xiang and Ying the mother and daughter and Barbie or Barbara Byer one of the

00:29:15.440 14 year old hitchhikers. A lot of the other girls and women's remains were said to be lost because

00:29:22.380 they were assumed to be eaten by alligators. The case went to trial and David was found guilty

00:29:28.640 and although he'd obviously taken that plea deal he was actually found to be an unreliable witness

00:29:34.460 i.e. he was probably lying and so the plea deal was revoked and he was actually given the death

00:29:40.080 penalty. He was executed by lethal injection in 2012. Fred however completely denied that he had

00:29:48.280 been an active participant saying he was merely an accomplice. He wouldn't give them any information

00:29:54.060 and he kept up his story that he had quote very little to do with any of the murders. For that

00:29:59.940 reason it actually wasn't possible to find him guilty on all of the same counts as David and

00:30:05.720 Fred was eventually only convicted for the murders of Barbara and Angelica. The Angelica conviction

00:30:11.500 is a little surprising to me because they never actually found her body or her remains but I

00:30:16.480 suppose because they found Barbara's they did know that the pair went missing together and they also

00:30:21.760 had David's story of what had happened so perhaps that's why. Either way Fred was given a life

00:30:28.000 sentence david only ever showed remorse for his crimes when he was attempting to appeal his death

00:30:33.140 sentence he said he'd found god become a christian and wanted to apologize to the victim's families

00:30:38.000 but his behavior in prison showed his true colors i think he often spoke to other inmates about how

00:30:45.140 much he enjoyed the killings and how he still thought about it all the time he also struck up

00:30:51.100 a pen pal relationship with a woman in england called ada she said that although david admitted

00:30:56.660 to six murders he told her he'd actually killed over 30 women. He specified that he knew how to

00:31:03.680 get rid of evidence because of his police training. When she asked him to reveal their name so that

00:31:09.320 their families could grieve and have some closure he refused to do so saying how he just didn't

00:31:15.280 remember their name so he couldn't possibly say. It's impossible to know how true any of what David

00:31:20.220 said was after he was arrested but what is clear is that he really believed he was not only above

00:31:26.800 the law but that the people he killed did not deserve any kind of mercy of all the cases i've

00:31:32.940 covered on red rum i think david is up there with the least remorseful of them all thank you for

00:31:41.600 joining me on this week's episode of red rum as always you can find our instagram uh facebook and

00:31:47.640 twitter in the description box down below you can message me on there with your case suggestions or

00:31:52.080 just to let me know what you thought of the case if you're on spotify there is a comment section now

00:31:56.660 where you can comment on the episode and let me know what you thought of the case

00:32:00.820 and other than that i'll see you next week for another episode of red rum bye

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 30, 2024

Sunday Things： True Crime with RedRum

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