Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Why So Many Mothers Are Unraveling and Filled With Rage with Libby Ward

00:00:00.000 hey y'all joe here and you are listening to under the influence quick reminder to get your orders 1.00

00:00:10.740 in for the parisian heist the book of the summer it is a badass feminist art heist set in paris

00:00:18.560 that's going to make you want to travel to paris and the untold story of joe van gogh the woman

00:00:23.700 who made Vincent famous. I love this book. You're going to love this book. Your mom's also going to

00:00:30.360 love this book, and your book club's going to love this book. Maybe even your husband. Who knows?

00:00:34.940 Men seem to like the book, too. It's Ocean's Eleven meets The Goldfinch. What more could you ask for?

00:00:40.700 Okay, now on to today's episode. A lot of you probably follow Libby Ward on social media, 0.99

00:00:46.420 or you've seen her hilarious reels about motherhood. I first met Libby at a mom-influencing

00:00:52.620 conference about four years ago. I was pregnant with Eliza, and she was just a person that I

00:00:57.800 immediately wanted to spend more time with. Libby's reels about motherhood are hilarious, 0.98

00:01:04.220 but there's a lot else beneath them. I truly believe that Libby is shifting the cultural

00:01:09.420 narrative about motherhood in a way that we really, really need. Libby's got a new book out

00:01:15.440 called Honest Motherhood, and in it, she candidly shares her journey of unlearning the myth of the

00:01:21.340 ideal mother. We talk about this myth all the time. This myth is bullshit and we just need more people

00:01:26.200 busting it wide open and saying, hey, this is the reality of motherhood and it's great and it sucks 1.00

00:01:32.600 and then it's great again and then it sucks again and that is totally okay. In the book, Libby dives 0.82

00:01:38.420 headfirst into the experiences that many mothers have but few feel like it's safe enough to say

00:01:44.260 out loud. This book is equal parts memoir and manifesto and it's just one of those books that

00:01:50.400 you want to read out loud. And Libby's one of those people you just want to hang out with and

00:01:53.620 shoot the shit with. You're going to love our talk. Hello, Libby Ward. Hello, Joe Piazza. Piazza? 1.00

00:02:05.740 Piazza? Piazza. Piazza. So fancy. Hello. Hello. Hello. I don't know why I just used your last

00:02:11.800 name. It felt fitting for some reason. Well, I suppose it is. It felt fancy. It felt fancy. And

00:02:17.100 this is a this is a fancy occasion as you can tell if anyone is watching this on video because

00:02:22.240 I'm in a bathrobe I'm in a bathrobe and I wish I was in a bathrobe I wish you were too I wish

00:02:27.280 you were too but I just felt like if anyone would understand that I could not physically get it

00:02:32.700 together to put on clothes I have a sick kid home today but because we're women we do all of the

00:02:37.340 things and I was like Libby's gonna get it and she's gonna be like good for you I get it and

00:02:42.840 good for you thank you not of this i'm not jealous of the sick kid though that's uh that's a lot oh

00:02:49.300 it sucks it totally sucks it's but it's my easiest kid it's my biggest kid so he's just watching

00:02:53.180 like the jurassic world franchise downstairs right and then you get to not feel even like a smidgen 0.96

00:02:59.000 of guilt like none just go watch tv i'll see you sometime soon when you're feeling better i'll see

00:03:05.180 you sometime soon because also when we were kids and we stayed home it's not even like we watched

00:03:09.740 good TV. It was like, watch The Price is Right, and then watch a bunch of daytime talk shows.

00:03:15.080 Yeah, you're going to watch Mori. You're going to watch people find out who the baby daddy is.

00:03:19.640 You're going to learn. You're going to become cultured.

00:03:21.960 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So no, I feel good about him downstairs watching Jurassic World. But we're

00:03:27.180 not talking about me in my bathrobe. We are talking about you and your wonderful book,

00:03:30.100 which I'm so happy to be able to finally talk about because I feel like I've been talking to

00:03:34.180 you about this book for so long. I mean, since I was pregnant with my last baby, which was four

00:03:40.700 years ago. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I spent over two years writing it, which is more than

00:03:47.700 double the amount of time I plan to. So I also feel like I've been talking about that long. But

00:03:53.460 now it's the official time to talk about it to the world. So it's the official time. Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:58.480 So we're going to talk about your story because you have so many followers on social media and so many women that I think you've really helped by being raw and honest about motherhood.

00:04:11.640 But a lot of them might not know your whole background and they're going to get this in the book because you're really open about what you went through to get here.

00:04:22.360 So I want to start out.

00:04:23.720 What does honest motherhood mean to you?

00:04:28.480 Honest motherhood means something different than it meant five years ago, first off.

00:04:34.260 So five years ago, honest motherhood to me would have been, hey, we should be more honest about all the hard things to do with motherhood because no one is doing that.

00:04:43.280 And it makes me feel alone and ashamed.

00:04:45.540 And we need to talk about it more so that we can get rid of the stigma and like do something about this.

00:04:50.740 And those things are still true.

00:04:52.180 But when I finished writing the book, Honest Motherhood had completely changed for me to mean something so much more internal about how we need to be honest with ourselves.

00:05:04.600 Because every single mom has a completely different motherhood experience.

00:05:10.040 They're mothering in different circumstances with a different pocketbook and kids with different needs and their own trauma and their own relationships.

00:05:17.020 relationships and while I know and believe that being honest with one another about motherhood

00:05:22.480 is important and needed and necessary the first step step to me actually making a difference in

00:05:27.440 my life and making changes so that I wasn't burnt out and resentful and full of rage for the rest of

00:05:32.020 my life was admitting the truth to myself which was that I was carrying a lot and expecting a lot

00:05:37.900 of myself and I had some work to do both on the messages that I had received from the world that

00:05:43.280 I had ingested and made a part of my worldview and some work to do on my trauma. So Honest

00:05:50.840 Motherhood to me is the need for all of us to be honest with ourselves so that we can actually be

00:05:56.220 whole human beings. Exactly. Exactly. And so I have so many follow-up questions to that. Tell

00:06:03.960 me about the place you were in where you were like, I can't go forward like this anymore. I have

00:06:09.200 so much goddamn rage. I don't want to live like this anymore. Where were you in your motherhood 0.99

00:06:15.580 journey when that happened? So before I got to the point where I was filled with rage,

00:06:20.240 I was at the point of breakage. So I'd like to tell you about the first time that I finally

00:06:25.560 admitted to myself. I was finally honest with myself about the fact that I couldn't handle it

00:06:29.160 all. So I had a two-year-old and a six-month-old baby. We had just moved to a new town. My father-in-law,

00:06:37.980 who used to live with us had just moved out and remarried. So our like one person support system,

00:06:43.260 we didn't really have any support other than that anyway. So he was gone. I had a codependent

00:06:48.200 relationship with my mom. I was still trying to do everything for her, still trying to support

00:06:51.720 my disabled father. My husband was a police officer. And so he worked the day night rotation

00:06:58.180 shift from hell, which meant that he either wasn't home or he was sleeping when he was home.

00:07:02.340 and my whole vocabulary was just shtaddy sleeping.

00:07:05.940 I was the carrier of everything, of all the words, of all the needs,

00:07:10.140 of all the knowledge, of all the appointments, of everything that needed to be done.

00:07:13.280 I was working part-time. I was in school part-time.

00:07:16.080 I was working as an educational assistant, and I wanted to be a teacher,

00:07:18.760 so I went back to school.

00:07:20.400 And so I had a child also who didn't eat and didn't sleep.

00:07:25.600 Like the six-month-old, my second-born, love him to bits, was a baby from hell.

00:07:30.080 and I didn't sleep. And I was a basket case and I was running a volunteer organization because I

00:07:38.680 thought that that was normal. I thought it was apparently I thought it was normal to have two

00:07:43.680 kids under two to run a volunteer organization, to work, to go to school part time, to be the

00:07:49.140 default parent, to not have a support system and keep going. And I thought I was a piece of garbage 0.99

00:07:53.420 for being tired, which is I mean, it's insane in hindsight. But at the time, I just I wanted to 0.98

00:07:58.340 keep up with everybody else and what they seem to be able to do. And so I went one night to

00:08:03.940 a shoebox packing party. So the volunteer organization I ran was during the holidays,

00:08:08.360 we would pack shoeboxes full of new items for women who were unhoused or at risk of being

00:08:14.380 unhoused because I just want to save everyone all the time and I care a great deal. And so

00:08:19.180 I ran the local chapter, I planned these parties and we went, we'd pack these shoeboxes. And so

00:08:23.700 I go out to this party. I plan it. I run it. I come home in my SUV full of like 100 shoeboxes

00:08:31.980 full of gifts for women who are unhoused. And I'm absolutely exhausted. I thought like, oh,

00:08:35.780 this will be my me time. Of course, I was like, of course, I was like volunteering would be my

00:08:40.460 me time. And I come home and it's like 11 o'clock at night and it's freezing cold outside, but

00:08:47.280 like not cold enough that everything's frozen. There's like puddles and I'm just shattered.

00:08:53.080 I open the back of my SUV and these shoeboxes come out and they like fall out.

00:08:58.980 And so we had to wrap the shoeboxes.

00:09:00.660 This is important.

00:09:01.320 OK, so the shoeboxes had to be wrapped at the bottom, separate to the top, because when you submit them, they have to get inspected to make sure they're safe for people.

00:09:08.000 And so there's all these beautiful items inside.

00:09:10.380 And then the outside is beautiful.

00:09:12.740 And it just looks like this great gift, except that they all fell out and smashed on the ground.

00:09:18.320 And I like broke.

00:09:20.180 I'd like knelt down to pick up all these like broken pieces of like candles and all these things we were giving to these women.

00:09:26.620 And as I was like putting the things back in the shoebox, I had this like moment of realization that like I was the shoebox.

00:09:32.400 That like I had been keeping up this shiny facade of like everything is fine and everything is pretty and everything is good and I can do it like you guys can do it.

00:09:40.600 and we're good while inside just being like sad and resentful and broken and not enjoying

00:09:45.880 motherhood and wishing that I can run away and just live in a hospital where someone took care

00:09:50.640 of me. And I was like picking up the broken pieces and I was like, this is me inside.

00:09:55.480 And I had this moment of realization that like, what is the point? What is the point in all of

00:09:59.880 this? And the facade and the pretty and the like, I'm holding it together. If inside I'm like broken

00:10:03.800 and I can't even be present for my life. And that was the first time. So like two years into

00:10:09.440 motherhood that I finally admitted I wasn't okay and that I couldn't keep up with everything

00:10:14.820 anymore. And it probably won't come as a surprise to you or anyone that I had the realization and

00:10:22.660 then I still went on to host Christmas for like two families and like it's wild to change from

00:10:26.460 there. But that was the first moment that I was like, okay, I'm not fine. Okay, I'm not fine.

00:10:32.360 Well, and so much of what you're saying resonates that you were like, I thought this was normal.

00:10:37.460 And the fact is, for so many of us, for so many women, it is normal.

00:10:42.420 I mean, I look at and I think that we should also create maybe a German word or perhaps a Hallmark card for women with a two or three year old and like a six month to one year old baby.

00:10:55.540 That is a real I mean, I when you were saying this, I was sent back there and that is a real time period.

00:11:01.720 It is the worst.

00:11:02.900 And I will tell you, I didn't experience it with number three, but going from one to two in that exact age period, I'm like, this is the worst.

00:11:11.100 This is I does it like how do people do this?

00:11:13.620 How does anyone ever survive this?

00:11:15.260 And yet at the same time, I, too, was taking on too much.

00:11:18.060 Right. But I think that part of it and I know not everyone has the experience where their first one is like kind of OK.

00:11:23.760 And the second one is just like how it was a lot easier.

00:11:25.860 My first one was a lot easier. Yeah.

00:11:27.340 But I feel like that like set me up for failure because I ended up and I was already somebody who got my worth from doing good and being good and pleasing everyone and spinning all the plates and just like doing really well and like making the things from scratch and like achieving and perfecting.

00:11:42.920 And so the fact that my first was going so well gave me this false sense of, like, pride and worth that, like, I was a good mom because I could do all the things, because my baby ate and slept and whatever.

00:11:56.880 That meant that I was good.

00:11:58.180 But then the flip side to that meant that when my baby wouldn't sleep, my second baby wouldn't sleep and wouldn't eat and couldn't do the things, then the flip side to that is then I was worth nothing and I was the problem and I wasn't good enough.

00:12:12.600 And no, it couldn't be that society has ridiculous expectations or that my trauma made me someone who would rather like not exist and live in a state of self-denial than speak my needs.

00:12:23.300 It couldn't be that. 0.98

00:12:24.180 It had to be that I was a piece of garbage for not being able to keep up on like zero sleep. 0.99

00:12:30.280 Yeah. 0.98

00:12:30.780 Yeah, exactly.

00:12:31.620 Exactly.

00:12:31.960 I mean, it really is.

00:12:33.580 I think it is so much more common than anyone talks about.

00:12:37.540 But you finally decided to start talking about it.

00:12:39.880 So that was at the point you reached this breaking point.

00:12:42.960 When did the rage come?

00:12:46.100 The rage came a few years later when the child who wouldn't eat or sleep became the child who couldn't speak.

00:12:55.260 And I was in taking him to speech therapy multiple times a week and still carrying the load and still doing all the things.

00:13:02.880 Actually, I just realized when I told you that I was in school part time, that didn't happen until the youngest was two.

00:13:08.760 that was a lie at that part but I wasn't in school at that time but I was doing all the other things

00:13:12.180 so a couple years later what is time what is time girl what is time oh my gosh just a construct

00:13:16.840 just a construct yep so anyway when that child was you know two and a half three years old

00:13:22.200 um it just the load of carrying everything even though I had been to therapy and I had worked

00:13:30.780 I've been working on my postpartum depression I finally learned the word for boundaries I realized

00:13:35.480 that my obsession with saving my mother and trying to be her everything and giving of myself was a

00:13:43.780 problem I had learned the language and I was trying to make changes but the actual load of

00:13:49.360 being a mother of a two and four year old a three and five year old was just far too much and I was

00:13:56.700 carrying far too much and that's when like the resentment and like the anger and like the rage

00:14:01.760 really began to to bubble and I I had been pretty good at like stifling my rage like I could allow

00:14:09.100 myself to like feel it in moments when the kids weren't there but I because of the way I was

00:14:15.260 raised in a household that felt unsafe and that felt like rage was around every corner I became

00:14:21.560 really good at stifling it and not really showing it but what that does it's just like packs it in

00:14:27.380 impacts it in, impacts it in, impacts it in. So when you have a child who can't speak their needs

00:14:32.100 and is constantly dysregulated, which is sparking my dysregulation, which sparks their dysregulation,

00:14:36.860 it's like this whole cycle, then it starts to bubble up. And so we had one morning in particular

00:14:40.920 where my husband, of course, was sleeping because he had worked all night. It was my job to get the

00:14:44.580 kids to school and daycare. And we were running late and my daughter had barfed all over the floor 1.00

00:14:49.200 and both the kids were refusing to eat breakfast. And it was just like, you know, like the typical

00:14:55.500 chaos morning where you're trying to get out the door and you're doing it alone and like everybody

00:14:58.820 has a need and your kid slaps you in the face and it takes everything not to slap them in the face

00:15:02.760 and you're proud that you didn't slap them in the face so proud yeah that you're like it's just

00:15:07.840 bubbling um again maybe there should be a hallmark card for good job not slapping anyone in the face

00:15:14.460 today you didn't slap anyone you didn't slap anyone yay for you so we get out the door and

00:15:20.260 they hadn't eaten so i'm like here's a granola bar so i hand them both a granola bar i buckle

00:15:23.700 them in the seat i like pull out of the driveway i realized crap we don't have a babysitter for

00:15:28.160 after school so i'm like trying to call i'm like hey guys can you just be quiet for a few minutes

00:15:31.380 while we're driving and of course what do they do they start screaming so my son starts yelling

00:15:35.440 crying he needs me um but i can't hear what he's saying because his words don't make sense because

00:15:40.420 he can't use words uh and i can't see his sign language because he's in the back seat and if i

00:15:44.040 turn around i'll drive into oncoming traffic and so then my daughter's yelling because my son's

00:15:47.760 yelling it's a whole thing and i just like you know those moments where you just lose it and it

00:15:52.320 just all comes to the surface and your face turns red and like i can feel the heat and i can feel

00:15:56.960 all the like i'm gonna be late for work i'm gonna feel ashamed this kid never stops crying i don't 0.97

00:16:02.360 know how to meet his needs i'm a piece of garbage they don't listen to me and i just like slam on 0.99

00:16:06.660 the brakes i turn around and i scream in their faces to shut up like all the things all the 0.98

00:16:10.920 things you don't listen to me i try so hard i like lose it and i remember that was like the

00:16:16.060 Yes. The answer is yes. I know that feeling. Yeah. Yes. And that was sort of the first moment

00:16:22.520 where I really like unleashed my rage out loud, like truly to the point that like they were

00:16:30.240 terrified of me. And that feeling of knowing that I had instilled that fear in them when like my

00:16:36.580 whole job till that point has been to like lovingly nurture them and like keep them safe from fear.

00:16:42.620 like it just like broke me and you know my son held up his granola bar that was all crinkled

00:16:49.180 and signed the word open and I realized like oh he just wanted me to open his granola bar like

00:16:54.860 they weren't even trying to do anything like they just wanted to eat and I felt so ashamed

00:16:59.640 and it was after that moment you know you know I had apologized and sent them to school and after

00:17:04.900 that moment I was like I need help like there are reasons why I'm feeling this way a million of them

00:17:11.180 but I don't know what to do like why can't I why can't I control you know my rage kind of thing

00:17:17.860 and so then that's when I really started doing like deeper sort of like trauma work and being

00:17:22.600 like okay what is it aside from the reality that everything is chaos but like why why am I like

00:17:30.000 this uh and so that's when like the rage really came out and yeah I could go on but uh yeah that

00:17:37.120 sort of like the first time. The first time, the first time. Okay, let's take a quick break. And

00:17:43.420 when we get back, I want to talk about what you ended up doing with that rage, because I think

00:17:50.460 the rage transformed you and then you transformed it into something really productive. And I think

00:17:56.480 a lot of women are really going to want to hear about how you did that.

00:18:07.120 Okay, we are back. We've all been there. We have all been there. And for me, part of honest

00:18:14.620 motherhood is admitting that we've been there, that I've turned around in the car and I've

00:18:18.740 screamed in my kids' faces and I felt like garbage afterwards, but it happened and I did it. And why

00:18:24.180 did I do it? And, you know, what internal and external forces caused it? You experienced this

00:18:31.180 estranged and not just once but several times and you were like okay what can I do with this

00:18:37.040 how can I turn this around and also in into something something that maybe could help other

00:18:44.300 people yeah I you know I started out as a mom with this idea that my love would be enough to

00:18:54.980 make me the mom that I wanted to be that I wanted to be different than my mom that I wanted to break

00:18:59.680 the cycle and that, you know, this idea of like, why couldn't she love me? And in the end, I realized

00:19:07.260 that it really isn't about like, if you love your kids, it's about like, if you have the skills and

00:19:13.580 the capacity to give them what they need. And I was mothering in the types of circumstances and

00:19:18.780 with the expectations on me that didn't allow me to do the things that helped me meet my kids'

00:19:23.080 needs and I sure I love them but I needed to learn how to regulate I needed to learn why I was

00:19:30.120 somebody who couldn't say no to save their life I needed to like learn how to value my needs and

00:19:36.260 my role as a mom and my like role as a human being for like having needs and so it took a really long

00:19:43.740 time to to do that but the the trifecta so the trifecta for me of how I ended up sharing online 0.99

00:19:50.740 and how this like fire got lit under my ass 0.96

00:19:53.760 to be like, we need to change something here. 0.99

00:19:56.140 Those three things happened.

00:19:57.360 The first thing is that I had been in therapy

00:19:59.580 for five or six years.

00:20:01.640 I had really started to do some of the work.

00:20:03.720 The second thing is when I did go back to school,

00:20:05.840 the goal was to become a teacher,

00:20:07.280 but I went back to school for sociology

00:20:09.440 and the only class that was available on the evening

00:20:11.740 that I could make it out of the house

00:20:12.840 was sociology of sexuality and gender.

00:20:15.400 And so as a backstory, I love a backstory, girl.

00:20:20.740 So we're going to go like right back to when I was a teenager and I was living with my mom and my abusive stepdad and I was isolated from the world and had no sense of belonging and felt like I was worth nothing.

00:20:33.920 And so I was introduced to a youth group at a local church and I went there and they were so loving and so kind.

00:20:43.120 and it was the first time that I felt like I actually mattered and they scooped me into their

00:20:50.700 arms and I fell in love with like the structure and the morality and the consistency and the rules

00:20:57.540 and and the bounds that I didn't really have at home and I became very attached to them and

00:21:02.500 therefore just went along with anything and everything that came with being a part of that

00:21:07.040 group and that sense of belonging and it wasn't until my mid-20s until or my late 20s I had been

00:21:14.340 a mom for a little while that I started going wait a second I'm not I'm not sure about some

00:21:20.660 of these things I'm not sure about what how we're treating certain groups of people I'm not sure

00:21:27.560 about, you know, many of the things that I know that you know, Joe. And so that is,

00:21:36.920 though the women at that church, when I became a mom, I was surrounded by women who saw motherhood

00:21:42.360 as the ultimate calling and who saw giving birth as like the ultimate calling and who,

00:21:49.540 you know, this community of people praised motherhood as the be all and end all and something

00:21:55.000 that was only sunshine and rainbows and joy and purpose, and that is what I expected. And they

00:22:01.340 also lived in community with one another and supported one another in a way that gave them

00:22:07.480 capacity to mother in ways that I never had the capacity to do. And I was not raised in those

00:22:12.840 families, and so I tried to live up to that expectation. And I didn't realize how much

00:22:18.440 being around those people had, like, put this idea in my brain that I needed to be a perfect mother

00:22:24.640 and that I needed to only feel good things all the time and that I couldn't trust my own judgment

00:22:28.800 and that I should just hashtag blessed at everything, even though I felt like I was dying.

00:22:34.380 And so when I went back to school for sociology of sexuality and gender,

00:22:40.200 and it was the first time I had really got language for the mental load, for the default parent, 0.72

00:22:47.220 for the impact that women carrying everything has on their well-being and mental health and lives

00:22:54.100 and careers and all of society uh it was all of this language for like oh my gosh like not only

00:23:02.380 am I not crazy not only is this a common experience but like this is a big problem 1.00

00:23:07.960 and oh my goodness I'm not alone and oh my goodness feminists aren't just those people 1.00

00:23:11.820 who burn bras oh my gosh I'm a feminist wait a second this means that we're all just equal 1.00

00:23:17.000 humans I didn't realize all along that's what this was and so that class that like singular

00:23:22.240 class really was like like broadened my whole view from being like I am the only one out of

00:23:28.760 this circle of influence that's not enjoying this so I have to keep quiet to wait a second

00:23:34.320 there is so many other circles out here and like we're all not doing okay and why aren't we talking

00:23:39.740 about it so that class was the first of the trifecta I'm coming to my point here the sorry

00:23:44.540 the class was the second thing the going to therapy was the first thing so there's like the

00:23:49.140 internal therapy and external of like going to school being like oh okay I'm not alone oh this

00:23:54.020 we can talk about this and then when I the pandemic happened in 2020 and I joined TikTok just to see

00:23:59.760 what it was about and I started sharing about motherhood and how hard it was for me thinking

00:24:04.420 no one would find me especially the church moms oh no one will find me I'll just post on this

00:24:10.260 platform that no one's ever gonna see no one's ever gonna see this I love that you had that idea

00:24:14.700 Yeah. No one's on here. I'll just share the stuff that I'm feeling inside that I'm learning at

00:24:21.100 school and that I'm learning in therapy. And like, no, no one's going to see it. We'll just

00:24:24.800 make jokes. That was wrong. Sorry, I was wrong. It was the right thing to do. And so this thing

00:24:32.820 happened where I then had all the primary data at my fingertips when millions of women started 0.67

00:24:37.480 being like, oh my gosh, me too. Oh my goodness, you're the first person who said this. Oh my 0.88

00:24:42.220 goodness this and so not only did it help me feel not alone but it took all the things I was starting

00:24:48.120 to know and believe about myself and the world and it just was like here it is it really isn't

00:24:54.500 just you we we do have trauma and the world is set up to f us over as mothers and we need to do

00:25:00.420 something about it I don't know if that answers your question but that's the story uh I love I

00:25:06.000 I love I love that story. But I do also want to say that, you know, I came into being a mother as a person who thought they were a feminist. Right.

00:25:14.720 And I still had all of this ingrained bullshit around you. Motherhood maybe should be your, if not your highest purpose, one of the highest purposes. 1.00

00:25:23.800 And you should automatically be good at it. And it should make you feel wonderful all the time. And you should devote your whole life to it.

00:25:30.100 Right. But the thing is, it's in all the messaging. It's in everything.

00:25:33.920 It's in all the books. It's in it's on the TV screen. It's in the movies. It's in how our boomer parents talk about motherhood and how it's in like it's in it's in the jokes. It's in everything. And so, of course, we're going to feel like, well, I should just be good at this.

00:25:53.440 All the moms are good at it. All the moms know what they're doing. But really, we're surrounded by other people who also feel like they need to keep their crap together. And like we're all just like dying inside a little bit. And honestly, the ones who aren't dying inside a little bit are probably surrounded by all kinds of people who are supporting them and just like aren't mothering in the same circumstances. 0.98

00:26:14.700 It's like the it's the lie of motherhood that only one thing can be true at the same time.

00:26:19.820 You can be having a hard time and also love your children.

00:26:23.120 You don't need to enjoy every second.

00:26:26.300 No, no, you don't.

00:26:27.400 I mean, I think I feel like two or 27 things are true at all times for me.

00:26:33.560 I'm like, OK.

00:26:34.860 Yeah.

00:26:35.240 For example, this morning I was up all night with a sick kid and just wanted to try to

00:26:41.400 sleep in.

00:26:41.880 and of course both my daughters then are screaming for me to be me to be the one to take them to

00:26:47.360 school and i'm like i love them so much i actually really like taking them to school and right now i

00:26:51.740 want them to get the hell away from me like all of these things can be true at one time and it

00:26:55.920 doesn't make you good or bad mother just makes you a human being right and but i think that

00:27:00.800 among many other things social media has been one of the worst culprits for making us feel that only

00:27:08.160 one thing could be true at the same time. And I mean, social media has also been good, right?

00:27:11.700 Because we're able to find the others who are like, oh, my goodness, we're not having a good

00:27:14.980 time. Like there are good things. But, you know, when it comes to social media and influencer

00:27:21.780 culture and the experts and all the noise, all the advice, all the information, all the shoulds,

00:27:30.140 all the mom tropes, it's just exhausting. And it just like adds to this feeling of like,

00:27:37.320 I don't really know okay well this person's saying this and this person's saying this and

00:27:41.480 this person's saying this and we have all these noises that just like add to this idea that we

00:27:46.100 can't trust ourselves and we should trust other people but also all these people we're supposed

00:27:51.400 to trust have conflicting advice so we'll just try to do it all and like no wonder we're exhausted

00:27:55.940 and burnt out so burnt out so freaking exhausted so you started posting on tiktok you thought no

00:28:04.720 one was going to see it on this little platform that no one uses but people did see it and your

00:28:09.480 account blew up pretty quickly what was the tipping point where you were like oh my god 0.95

00:28:15.540 people are actually paying attention to this shit i mean it was a combination of things but if i were 0.94

00:28:23.520 to pick two things it would be everything from i went to the grocery store and noticed people 0.99

00:28:27.560 looking at me and then being like oh my gosh i follow you like that was the first time i was

00:28:32.080 like oh there's real people the the hundreds of thousands of people on tiktok like they're actual

00:28:37.740 human beings behind the screen they're not just like a number because keep in mind this was all

00:28:42.140 during the pandemic the first year so it's like it wasn't even real to me it was like this fake

00:28:45.920 thing so being recognized in public was like oh i i guess okay i guess that is real or like people

00:28:50.780 would see me and cry and i'd be like oh my gosh um this real thing uh and then there was like one

00:28:57.600 of the biggest points was when i made a video called maybe it's not mom rage and i just like

00:29:02.140 sat on the edge of my bed and like ranted about like maybe it's not mom rage like maybe we're

00:29:05.340 caring too much and something needs to change longer than that anyway um the taryn hall show

00:29:09.920 like reached out a few months later and wanted me to like come on tv to talk about it and that

00:29:13.660 was a moment when i was like oh that's insane like it was by it was a viral video but i had

00:29:18.820 so many viral videos that like it was almost just like normal for my videos to be viral so

00:29:23.580 when it went viral I was like yeah of course it did because we're surrounded by burnt out mothers

00:29:29.580 and like it resonates and like we all feel rage of course of course but then when there was

00:29:34.740 something about like oh you should come to New York and like I live in this little small town

00:29:39.220 Canadian place where it's like that doesn't happen that's not a thing that's real and like going on

00:29:45.080 TV to talk about it and then coming home and having even more conversations about it that

00:29:49.180 just made me realize like oh this isn't just about like being funny this isn't just about like

00:29:53.900 making jokes about how motherhood is hard and us just being like it's so hard oh my husband takes

00:29:59.660 hour-long poos so he doesn't have to watch the kids are like oh haha it's hard like I do make

00:30:04.840 jokes about you know I was making jokes about different things and being honest but that was

00:30:08.540 hour-long poos okay I'm sorry why why like just how and what would you do if I wasn't here like

00:30:16.680 what yeah and if i took an hour-long poo they would be in there the all three kids would just

00:30:21.520 be staring at me while i did it right and now i love that i get to tell my 9 and 11 year old like 0.51

00:30:26.120 you realize you used to beg to watch me poo right like you like that was like your thing that you

00:30:31.480 wanted to do i'm just gonna be with you all the time it's just all the time and like and also 0.76

00:30:36.740 that they will deadpan stare at you while they grunt and push a poo out as well yep while like 0.69

00:30:42.500 they are like dead eye lock you while they poo. But yeah, it kind of went from like, yes, I want 0.75

00:30:48.200 to be honest about this. Yes, like we can make jokes that can open the door for hard conversations.

00:30:51.920 Yeah, I'll be vulnerable about stuff. But we need to change like the whole narrative on motherhood.

00:30:57.180 And like we all need to stop accepting this lie that it should be easy and that we should be

00:31:03.700 carrying it all. Right. Right. And I mean, that is where I think your account has been truly

00:31:09.820 transformative to not just to your followers but to other content creators to show hey it's okay

00:31:17.180 it's okay to break down that wall to show what you're going through to show what this is really

00:31:22.640 like there's not just one way of being this online there's not just one way of doing this

00:31:27.360 but but i truly believe i told you this the first time that we met in real life uh at one of uh the

00:31:34.380 mom influencing conferences which sometimes i call mom bomb just because that's what i wrote in the

00:31:38.940 book. But I'm like, no, it's not called Mom Bomb in real life. It's Mom 2.0. And, you know, Mom

00:31:43.860 Bomb's not based on Mom 2.0. It's based on lots and lots of different conferences. But when I saw

00:31:47.600 you in real life, I was just like, thank you. Thank you for what you did for for showing that

00:31:52.660 this is something that so many of us care about. So many of us want to start a conversation about

00:31:58.120 and that this truly, truly matters. Thank you. I never know how to like when people say thank

00:32:05.380 Yeah, I'm always like, what is the word you say when people say thank you?

00:32:08.000 You're welcome.

00:32:09.780 Okay, let's take one more quick break.

00:32:11.480 And when we get back, I want to talk just a little bit about what it is like to be a woman who does do this online, who does talk openly about things.

00:32:20.860 Because being a woman on the Internet is hard and people are so mean and also so kind, but also so mean.

00:32:27.440 And so I want to get into a little bit of what it's been like to actually be honest on the Internet.

00:32:35.380 Let's do it.

00:32:44.340 Okay, we are back.

00:32:46.420 Your accounts have grown so huge.

00:32:49.700 And, you know, with those kinds of numbers, with that kind of viewership, you have a lot of people reach out and say, oh, my gosh, thank you for this. 0.99

00:32:57.240 But then you also have a lot of people act like assholes and douchebags. 0.99

00:33:01.300 It happens to every woman I know who puts herself out there online. 0.98

00:33:05.620 What has the reaction been to what you've done, both good and bad?

00:33:11.160 That's a great question.

00:33:12.760 The reaction has been everything a lot all of the time.

00:33:18.400 The way I describe it in my book is that when I blew up online, it was like I've never been needed or wanted or spoken to or communicated with.

00:33:31.300 by so many people who hadn't entered or exited my vaginal canal.

00:33:36.120 Like that.

00:33:37.580 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:33:38.680 It's just a lot.

00:33:40.320 And so also you take somebody who does have childhood trauma and some trust issues

00:33:46.280 and who is just learning boundaries and just learning to prioritize herself

00:33:50.640 and really figuring out who she is later in life.

00:33:53.280 And then you put her up on a pedestal very quickly overnight

00:33:56.240 and wish her to be well as everybody watches everything.

00:34:01.780 It is a little bit of a recipe for disaster.

00:34:04.000 And so the good, we'll say, let's go with the good.

00:34:07.180 The good is that it reinstilled this deep and sincere

00:34:12.120 and unwavering knowing that I am not alone to me

00:34:17.440 and that I am not crazy and that my struggles are legitimate

00:34:21.760 and my needs as a human being are real and matter.

00:34:24.840 like oh my goodness yes and then this like feedback loop of me being able to do that for others and

00:34:31.820 show other women that they aren't alone and that they're not crazy and that their needs matter and

00:34:35.440 that change needs to happen and that has been like one of the most powerful and meaningful

00:34:39.580 experiences I've ever had to know that this just like regular mom person could share her perspective

00:34:45.560 and her story and that it could make such a difference in so many people's lives like that

00:34:52.240 means so much to me and it is like one of the joys of my life to have the privilege to be able

00:34:58.360 to do that and to have a platform and it yeah it's like truly changed my life and I've had so

00:35:03.020 many incredible opportunities both to do things and connect with like people like yourself and

00:35:07.420 so many others who have yeah I just I never would have met so many incredible people and I'm so

00:35:12.000 grateful for that and it's been the hardest thing I've ever done and I've wanted to quit so many 0.96

00:35:18.600 times and it's been difficult not just to deal with like I mean the guys who write stupid stuff 0.88

00:35:25.140 about I don't know they make empty threats or they tell me to get back in the kitchen like 0.99

00:35:29.960 whatever like you're kind of the scum of the earth and like just I don't I'm not going to 0.98

00:35:35.380 take your opinion to heart like that like it can be a lot but it really doesn't get to me that much 0.99

00:35:40.800 because like if I'm not coming to you for advice I'm also not going to like come to you for your

00:35:44.460 depending on like my worth in the world.

00:35:47.360 But I would say it's been, it's hard.

00:35:51.100 It's hard to be a person with raging ADHD,

00:35:55.220 attachment issues from my childhood trauma,

00:35:58.900 and have to also be creative all the time

00:36:04.040 and be structured and create my own structure

00:36:08.000 and to have boundaries and to constantly be re-figuring out

00:36:12.160 what are my priorities, what are my boundaries,

00:36:14.120 What is my capacity? All the things that took me so long to learn about in motherhood, like what is a realistic amount to take on? And can I say no? And what is the value in doing these things? And have to apply that on such a large scale and to have so many people be like, can you do this? Can you do this? Can you just shout this out? Oh, let's be friends. Just kidding. A month later, can you actually promote my thing?

00:36:34.140 A lot of people sort of masquerading as friends or a lot of pressure to make content that's brand friendly.

00:36:45.460 You know, I never set out to be an influencer.

00:36:47.060 I didn't know what an influencer was.

00:36:48.800 And, you know, until more recently, like my main way of monetizing was through brand partnerships.

00:36:55.540 That is no longer the case anymore.

00:36:57.460 um i have you know i've been trying to move away from while i do have influence and do

00:37:03.460 brand partnerships that's i'm not in a lifestyle influencer all to say you know to you know my

00:37:09.760 whole thing is being honest about motherhood and talking about hard things and systemic issues but

00:37:13.740 that's not always brand friendly and so it's like there's all this pressure to like okay well you

00:37:17.760 have to stay authentic for your followers but then if you change then your version of authenticity

00:37:22.880 changes so is that even authentic anymore and you have to make content that's kind of brand friendly

00:37:26.920 because you actually have to make money and you can't just do this for free all the time.

00:37:30.200 But then you also, OK, well, you're trying to write a book and, you know, do more public speaking.

00:37:34.340 But in order to build that, you need time to do that. And then you're not making content.

00:37:37.500 And so it's a lot. You have to all of a sudden become an expert at everything.

00:37:42.540 And yeah, to answer your question, it's a lot and it's very hard and it's beautiful and a privilege, right?

00:37:48.660 Like motherhood. It's like all the things, but just on steroids.

00:37:53.580 And it's been yeah, it's been really hard and good.

00:37:56.920 Do you find that sometimes your audience, despite the fact that you are talking about how hard this is, sometimes hold you to impossible standards?

00:38:06.700 Like they're like, oh, OK, but you said you do this and no, you're not doing this.

00:38:11.320 They want to put you in a box, right?

00:38:12.860 They want to put you in a box.

00:38:13.880 I saw a thing the other day that was talking about how the personal brand is one of the worst pieces of advice we've ever been told to build.

00:38:21.760 because by nature of being a brand,

00:38:24.720 it's supposed to be consistent all the time

00:38:26.560 and it's supposed to be never changing.

00:38:28.340 And, you know, the reason we like going

00:38:30.520 to the same fast food restaurant

00:38:32.540 is we know exactly what to expect

00:38:33.820 and it doesn't change.

00:38:35.340 And it's always delivered in the same way

00:38:37.560 and it gives us a sense of like comfort

00:38:39.100 that we can trust that it's going to be the same.

00:38:41.040 And by nature of being humans,

00:38:42.240 we're always changing and we're always growing

00:38:44.580 and we're like humans are supposed to be many things

00:38:48.420 at the same time.

00:38:49.260 And so, I mean, that's one of the reasons that I changed my handle. It was Diary of an Honest Mom. And people are like, that's crazy that you're writing a book called Honest Motherhood and you're changing your handle. That's your entire brand awareness. That's everything.

00:39:01.320 And I was like, it no longer feels authentic because it feels like I'm being forced to be this version of myself that became famous when, yes, motherhood is so important to me and it is a part of who I am.

00:39:11.900 And I will always talk about it now, always advocate for mothers.

00:39:14.240 But I'm starting to feel like I'm being forced to only do it and only do it in a certain way because that's what I became famous for.

00:39:20.220 And like I am a human person who changes and that's my entire message.

00:39:24.920 So it would be inauthentic of me to not, you know, to go with that, as I forget your question now because I have ADHD.

00:39:33.420 But essentially, it's yeah, it's it's been hard to feel like, OK, well, you, Libby, said this.

00:39:40.740 So now you always have to be this way or you, Libby, are vulnerable and sincere and you talk about your trauma.

00:39:46.320 But then also, wait, you want to be funny next week or you're someone who made me laugh last week.

00:39:50.680 but now you're someone this week who's like ranting about like mommy influencers and the

00:39:56.080 government it's like yeah because i am a whole person i'm a whole person who like feels rage

00:40:01.520 at the systemic issues that are like breaking mothers and families and like our society and

00:40:07.540 i'm also a human person who just wants my mom sometimes but can't do that because of the

00:40:12.940 relationship i had and i'm going to be honest about my own imperfections and insecurities as

00:40:18.080 Well, because I know that helps, too.

00:40:19.540 And so it can be hard because people get this idea of like, no, this is the box I want you to be in.

00:40:25.360 And this makes me feel comfortable.

00:40:26.640 But I didn't get into this to, like, be someone who lives inside of a box.

00:40:33.220 Right. Right. But it's very hard.

00:40:35.480 I mean, when we're influencing, I talk about this a lot, you know, is this new version, this new wild, wild west of celebrity.

00:40:42.460 And when people expect you to be a certain thing, and we do put celebrities and now influencers up on pedestals, it can be really jarring for them when you change. And that is also not fair to you.

00:41:01.960 It was never fair to celebrities, but I also like to say celebrities have always been paid a premium to, like, live their lives in the public sphere, whereas influencers are, like, just, like, you know, gigging to get along most of the time.

00:41:13.880 And we also don't have PR teams, like celebrities.

00:41:16.340 No, exactly.

00:41:17.360 It's like you're a singular human who got famous for whatever it is you got famous for, and now you need to be an expert on everything.

00:41:25.420 And if you say something, you're in trouble.

00:41:27.360 But if you don't say something, you're in trouble.

00:41:28.900 But if you say something the wrong way, you're in trouble.

00:41:30.780 But then you don't have anyone necessarily guiding you on whatever it is that you're supposed to be speaking on. And you also don't have the support to necessarily like help you bear the brunt of 100,000 people sending hate your way.

00:41:47.060 Like, no one can prepare you for what it feels like to have such an influx of these opinions and of, like, what people want from you.

00:41:59.220 And it's like you can say, oh, well, don't let it get to you.

00:42:02.000 But the reality is, like, we live our lives online, so you are going to see it and it is going to affect you.

00:42:07.380 And, yeah, it's a tricky one.

00:42:10.960 It's a tricky one, too, because it's like, oh, well, you wanted this.

00:42:13.380 You want to do this.

00:42:14.040 It's like, yes, I wanted to do this doesn't mean that I want all the negatives as well.

00:42:21.300 Like with motherhood, right?

00:42:22.600 It's like, sure, you can want it and still say it's very hard and I don't know how to navigate this thing.

00:42:28.060 Exactly.

00:42:28.600 Again, all the things can be true.

00:42:30.540 My last big question for you, although I could continue to talk to you in my bathrobe all day long.

00:42:36.780 How did you learn to finally say no to set the boundaries?

00:42:39.620 And it's a big question.

00:42:40.420 And you do talk about it a lot in the book.

00:42:42.880 but I do want a little bit of a taste of it because I think it's something we're all so

00:42:47.280 desperate to figure out. I learned to say no over time with a lot of practice.

00:42:56.820 I practice being honest with myself. Like it's not just called honest motherhood because I am

00:43:04.040 the honest mom, diary of an honest mom. It's because I literally know and feel and have

00:43:09.400 experienced that telling myself the truth has been the catalyst to all the changes I've made

00:43:16.260 in my life, including being able to say no. Being honest with myself about the fact that I have a

00:43:20.660 child who has extra needs. I have raging ADHD. I have childhood trauma and attachment issues. I

00:43:26.660 have a partner who works a lot in a lacking support system, in a social structure that makes

00:43:32.920 me feel like I need to do everything at the same time. And I have limited energy and capacity. And

00:43:37.500 if I'm honest about all of that that allows me to instead of like blame and shame myself like 0.98

00:43:44.600 you're a piece of crap for not being able to keep up it allows me to objectively say these things 0.93

00:43:48.740 are all true and therefore I cannot do everything and because I cannot do everything some things 0.99

00:43:54.340 need to get crossed off and because some things need to get crossed off I need to say no and so

00:43:58.900 being honest about the fact that I'm a human being with like full human needs like every other person

00:44:04.660 on the planet and accepting that I have a limited capacity because all humans have a limited capacity

00:44:11.080 helps me to say no. And when I think of different people in my life who need to be said no to more

00:44:17.500 often than others, it's usually the ones that cross your boundaries more, right? And so

00:44:22.040 acknowledging that and acknowledging that those people can maybe sometimes suck the life out of

00:44:29.620 you or that you can't volunteer at the thing because it takes more energy than you have

00:44:33.940 it helps you say no like when when we can acknowledge that we're actually humans with 0.93

00:44:38.580 needs which seems like a stupid thing that you should have to be honest about but like we all

00:44:42.460 live as though we're not it like it helps you to be honest and that's what you know what eventually 0.90

00:44:47.680 helped me and I say practice because it's like you know the first 25 times I said no 10 minutes

00:44:53.860 later I said yes you know or you know the next day I still did some version of it or I said sorry

00:45:00.660 when I said no. And one of the lies that I've believed for so long is that just because I

00:45:06.600 learned something, I had to be able to implement it immediately. And if I couldn't, again, there

00:45:10.680 was something wrong with me. And one of the big lessons of the book is that number one, there's

00:45:15.040 no arrival. And number two, there's no such thing as perfection. And like change doesn't happen

00:45:19.760 overnight. So it literally comes with practice. You say no. And the first time you want to peel

00:45:24.420 your skin off and like crawl into a hole and never talk to anyone again. And then the next time you

00:45:28.720 only want to peel your skin off and then the next like you practice and practice and eventually

00:45:33.300 you figure out the way to say it and to fully believe like oh no like I needed this and I'm

00:45:41.300 I'm not a terrible person for saying no and so the answer is with a lot of practice over time

00:45:46.180 and I'm still practicing me too I am still practicing but I do think I'm getting better

00:45:53.340 at it and you're right I mean it's it's kind of like a muscle right you kind of build it up

00:45:57.080 Yeah. Yeah. It's a muscle and you're not going to get better at it unless you practice. And, you know, at the end of the book, one of my final chapters, I talk about the Rubik's Cube of motherhood. So at the beginning of the book, I talk about how motherhood is like a Rubik's Cube, like trying to be a good mom and a whole person at the same time. It's like trying to solve a rigged Rubik's Cube with the sun shining in your eyes and a couple of your fingers missing.

00:46:19.300 It's just impossible to like be able to do all the things. And in the end, after my many breakdowns and my many therapy sessions and my many like starting again and trying again, I realized like it is like a Rubik's Cube, but not just for that reason, not just because it's hard to solve, but because in order to solve a Rubik's Cube, you have to learn a set of codes.

00:46:42.800 and for every different set of problems there is a different set of tools or a different set of

00:46:49.620 turns and twists that you need to do to solve it and the first time you want to solve one side

00:46:55.720 it's going to be like torture and you're like following a tutorial and you're trying to follow

00:46:59.400 a thing and you're trying to or you're just practicing out of nowhere but eventually you

00:47:03.540 do it enough times that when a problem comes up you're like oh yeah this is what I need to do to

00:47:10.460 solve it. I've practiced enough times that like, oh, this is how I say no. This is how I answer

00:47:14.900 that message. This is how I whatever with my husband or my parent or whatever. It's not going

00:47:20.760 to happen immediately. Like you have to keep doing it. And so that like that for me was like one of

00:47:28.580 the biggest lessons that I've like taken away in my whole journey through motherhood is that

00:47:32.300 it's not about like having all the right perfect answers. It's about like trying and trying again

00:47:36.240 and continuing to do it, yeah, to be honest with ourselves and the world so that we can

00:47:41.840 live like we're whole human beings. Which is what we all deserve. And we all deserve,

00:47:47.820 all mothers deserve this wonderful book. I truly, I want Honest Motherhood to become part of the

00:47:56.200 canon that I recommend people give for baby showers. Because we don't think about preparing

00:48:02.940 the whole mother, the whole human, when we're usually approaching the baby shower gift. But

00:48:08.460 I think this is one of those books that I think is absolutely necessary. I highly encourage you

00:48:14.600 to give it to any of the mothers in your life or soon-to-be mothers or fathers, because what we

00:48:19.600 want is more men reading books about women's experiences by women, Honest Motherhood. You

00:48:25.940 can get it wherever books are sold. Thank you so much for coming on today, Libby Ward.

00:48:29.740 Thanks for having me.

00:48:32.940 Thank you.

00:49:02.940 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - March 31, 2026

Why So Many Mothers Are Unraveling and Filled With Rage with Libby Ward

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