Unlearn16: Class is in Session - The One Where I Bring Alberta To Ontario To Talk Politics

00:00:00.000 Class is in session.

00:00:04.080 Hey, everybody, and welcome to Unlearned 16, Class is in session. Today, I'm going all the

00:00:10.220 way across Ontario with Janice Irwin, member of Legislative Assembly out in Alberta, NDP,

00:00:18.480 rocking the house, making all sorts of waves. You guys call yourself members of Legislative

00:00:23.760 Assembly where we're MPPs, Member of Provincial Parliament. It's a little East Coast, West Coast

00:00:30.700 thing. What is it like out there? What is it like under Danielle Smith? What is it like being NDP

00:00:39.940 in the Energy Resource Capital of Canada? Wow. What first thing comes, I know you're a teacher,

00:00:49.020 so like I'm grabbing all these things. I know you're a teacher. I feel like we have, so we both

00:00:52.400 came out later in life you were a teacher all of a sudden you're in politics i'm getting some

00:00:56.160 shoves to go in that arena um if if you were to say like one thing about where you stand where

00:01:03.200 you grew up in alberta where you stand your background what are you the first thing that

00:01:08.880 comes to mind you know you get like a sentence you get you get like a quick sentence yeah i mean quick 0.80

00:01:16.800 sentence queer politician in alberta like there's a lot to unpack there that's true yeah no it's good

00:01:23.840 i mean like i gotta say things have shifted a bit because when so i was first elected in in 2019

00:01:30.800 and uh i was the only queer politician in alberta at the time and now fast forward four years i've

00:01:36.560 been joined by a couple more so that's good news uh i'm sorry i'm also joined by my cat oregano

00:01:42.320 today so just in case people are wondering yeah i know they can't everybody knows that's a bylaw 1.00

00:01:46.800 in alberta um if a lesbian politician is sitting on camera she must have her respective cat next

00:01:52.240 to her yeah exactly it's the law so i'm glad i'm glad that law transcends uh provincial boundaries

00:01:57.680 this we understand we understand

00:02:02.000 so so you step into this arena so you're a teacher for how many years

00:02:06.320 so i didn't teach actually all that long um i started teaching when i was very young i just

00:02:10.240 just turned 21 and I was teaching like high school so I had like 19 year old boys in my class which

00:02:14.580 was fun keep in mind though uh you know I was straight I'm using quotation marks for the people

00:02:19.860 listening straight back then and you know I wasn't I wasn't out and I was dating men and all that so

00:02:24.740 I wasn't dealing with all of that uh at the time when I was teaching but yeah I didn't teach all

00:02:28.600 that long I taught for about um six years in rural Alberta and then I came uh to Edmonton

00:02:33.640 the big city and then because you were getting your PhD like you're you just haven't defended

00:02:38.320 your dissertation from what I understand. Yeah, exactly. So I did my master's when I was out

00:02:42.040 teaching in rural Alberta, and then I came back to Edmonton. I thought, you know what, why not do my

00:02:45.820 PhD? But I ended up running for office. I ended up running federally in 2015. And so I stepped

00:02:52.040 away from my PhD and didn't come back to it. So maybe one day if I don't continue with politics.

00:02:57.900 So you ran federally. What happened there? Yeah, so ran federally. So I launched that campaign in

00:03:04.680 2013 I thought we did we had a really good chance in that election um put two years of my life into

00:03:10.440 it but it was a close a close loss in the conservative uh a conservative member parliament

00:03:17.480 at the time um but so it was it was like a heartbreaker but yeah the good news is um

00:03:23.560 let's see six you had to do some math there I was not a math teacher by the way Joanna uh six years

00:03:28.480 later we ended up winning that seat so um a young uh two-spirit member of parliament

00:03:34.720 so you know sweet sweet victory about six years later right that vengeance and uh was was really

00:03:42.660 awesome i put a lot of i put a lot of steps into that campaign because i wanted us to win and

00:03:47.520 we have an amazing guy there now so it all worked out so you you ran federally and then

00:03:54.720 ran provincially and won that seat exactly yeah so ran federally lost stayed involved in politics

00:04:01.520 uh and then four years later so I lost in 2015 four years later I ran provincially

00:04:05.900 and I was successful and uh and then ran again and just got re-elected in May

00:04:11.200 your first term you step into COVID yeah that's it that's your first no but you know what and

00:04:20.480 here's where we should start on this. Um, you know, what, what my,

00:04:24.460 the first, so one of the very first things, so I was elected in, uh,

00:04:28.020 in 2019 and, uh, I'm just going to take this wherever we want. Right.

00:04:32.700 You're any direction. Just have. Okay.

00:04:35.840 You just cut me off if I'm rambling too much. So what happened is, um,

00:04:40.680 you know, Jason Kenney had, you had to campaign in that campaign of like,

00:04:44.500 you know, no, no divisive. And again, I'm using quotes. He was like,

00:04:47.520 I'm not going to campaign on any divisive social issues. And, you know,

00:04:50.200 his his slogan during that campaign was jobs economy pipelines right that kind of thing and

00:04:55.260 so you know i got elected and i was uh appointed the critic for status of women and 2s lgbtq issues

00:05:01.040 again this was um april 2019 just to give you some time context and people right away were like

00:05:05.800 whoa janice to you know lgbtq issues this is going to be controversial and i said i was like you know

00:05:12.100 what i doubt it because jason kenny has said he's not going to talk about these things he wants to

00:05:15.980 stay away he wants to focus on the economy right i was wrong i was dead wrong because one and just

00:05:22.600 for folks who weren't following alberta politics very closely um the very one of the very first

00:05:27.340 pieces of legislation that they brought in just after we were elected in 2019 was bill 8 bill hate

00:05:33.740 and that effectively made it more difficult for young people to access gsa's in schools it made

00:05:39.700 alberta the first province in canadian history to actually roll back to s lgbtq plus rights right

00:05:45.920 make how do they do that can you explain it just a little bit what did the bill do in schools yeah

00:05:50.660 yeah absolutely so um essentially and again like i always say like i'm not the lawyer i'm surrounded

00:05:56.460 by lawyers in our caucus who i get to explain bills to me because i'm like can you explain this

00:06:01.040 to me and then then they do and then i'm like okay bring it down a level okay maybe once more yeah

00:06:05.660 uh so i always need a little bit of help but essentially so a couple of things it um it made

00:06:10.680 it more difficult for kids to access GSAs. What had happened under previous legislation is if a

00:06:17.020 student at a school was like, hey, went to the principal and was like, hey, I want to start a

00:06:21.420 GSA. There was like an immediacy clause. Like you, the principal had to, had to, had to act.

00:06:26.900 That was all removed. So basically, you know, a kid could ask and say like, listen, I don't feel

00:06:32.040 safe. And the administration could just ignore it. Exactly. Exactly. Right. And, you know,

00:06:39.360 made it more possible for like, for, for kids to be outed to, to their, uh, to their parents.

00:06:45.660 And just like, you know, it just, it was just a very, um, very gross piece of legislation because

00:06:51.340 the UCP very much framed it as, oh no, we're helping, you know, actually helping protect kids

00:06:56.900 and no, it's the same. And this is why. And in fact, I, I just, for anybody who follows me,

00:07:01.140 I just posted a video of me speaking in 2019 during that debate because it's the same debate

00:07:06.200 coming up now right and uh under the guise and it was it was this always is under the guise of

00:07:13.200 parental rights right just the same conversation you're having in uh in Ontario and across the

00:07:17.880 country so there was very much that right far right contingent in the UCP's ear saying like

00:07:23.660 you need to talk about this because Jason Kenney said he wasn't going to talk about it right it's

00:07:27.760 going to stay away from those issues clearly there was enough of a you know a voice in their head

00:07:32.440 saying you you need to you need to touch on this even though it is going to be controversial and

00:07:36.100 the the really shitty thing about that sorry I probably shouldn't say shitty but I did theirs

00:07:40.220 it did it again um the really crappy thing about that was like we so many Albertans spoke out and

00:07:46.760 like we were inundated with stories from parents from teachers from students how GSAs did save

00:07:54.560 their lives or how they would have helped them had that when they had been kids uh when they

00:07:58.740 were kids right in schools and and I talked about this you know the fact that I know I didn't do

00:08:03.300 enough as a teacher. And we need to do more now, right? I think they probably would have framed it

00:08:10.800 and correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm Jason Kenney, heaven help me. The way that I would frame it

00:08:17.120 would be, listen, teachers have a lot on their plates. They don't need extra clubs. They don't

00:08:21.440 need these clubs that clearly identify who the gay kids are in the school. Because if we clearly 0.98

00:08:26.160 identify who the gay kids are in the school, it makes it easier for bullies. And this is just 0.91

00:08:30.680 highlighting an issue. We're already putting a lot of pressure on our teachers who are already

00:08:34.160 overworked. We don't really want, we can't have this immediacy clause because the immediacy clause

00:08:39.220 might, might, you know, negate mathematics that whole year because now they need to make a GSA.

00:08:45.120 Am I, am I on the right path? Yeah. I mean, he didn't really talk about that because,

00:08:50.000 you know, Lord knows Jason Kennedy would never actually acknowledge teachers. So no, but, um,

00:08:54.820 like yeah but again it was just very much very much this this you know this nod to to the far

00:09:01.860 right right to be like oh don't worry we're we're protecting your kids when you know you know i've

00:09:06.640 got my protect trans kids shirt on right now we know these are just the same ill-informed

00:09:11.720 conversations right and that was and again this this idea and what we're hearing a lot in alberta

00:09:16.580 right now which i'm sure you're hearing there too and it was just it was just so incredibly

00:09:21.160 disheartening to be at the protests here last week because the the misinformation that's that's

00:09:26.940 being spread throughout periods about what's happening in schools none of that's happening

00:09:31.360 right well they're and that's the huge thing i think a lot of you know i speak however i speak

00:09:38.900 on tiktok however i speak on here but i really do love engaging with people that disagree with

00:09:44.380 me fundamentally uh i mean as long as they can give an intellectual sort of conversation why

00:09:50.500 because I think we're doing an incredible disservice when we're listening to such ridiculous

00:09:57.840 statements about what's going on in school. And then people are just rolling with them. 0.87

00:10:02.500 And they're never, because they're so far out of the way of the center and they're so far

00:10:08.020 distantly removed from intelligent thoughts. Like, well, I'm not talking to those idiots anymore. 1.00

00:10:12.700 Well, there's the problem because we're not talking about it. We're not going point by point 1.00

00:10:18.720 by point by point because as soon as you do that as soon as you go point by point they're gone

00:10:26.640 you'll either win people over and they'll go oh wait a minute i didn't know that or the people

00:10:32.800 that are just going to exist in their own world listen i don't know what to do about those

00:10:36.880 the people that are fixated on like there's kitty litters in the classroom like those people i don't

00:10:42.000 know i can't do a thing i'm just gonna let them roll um but i think the discussions are incredibly

00:10:48.960 important to have especially when it comes to because as soon as you say it's like they have

00:10:54.560 go-to words which i won't repeat because we can't repeat certain words on this platform

00:10:59.280 but there's go-to words right as soon as anybody talks about um health education for young people

00:11:07.760 oh and there's that lovely g word they love to throw out left right and center and it's just so 0.90

00:11:13.760 debasing and so ridiculously on the attack but holy crap when you throw that word out there

00:11:21.200 it's like boom you just have fireworks left right and center right um what's the just out of

00:11:27.920 curiosity because i know that kathleen win when she was premier here and doug ford's done what

00:11:32.960 he did but she really changed the elementary health and sex education curriculum and people

00:11:38.320 lost their minds you know grade ones don't need to be knowing about sex nobody was ever teaching 0.94

00:11:42.240 them about sex you know becky um but like grade one they would just do anatomy and then grade two

00:11:49.600 they would do you know consent and then and it seemed completely rational if you read the

00:11:56.480 curriculum is that the scene out there and that's and that's the exact your last point there if they

00:12:02.480 read the curriculum and this is the this is the challenging part i think you and i are very similar

00:12:06.880 because you know you said like you want to engage with people who disagree and i do too i think it's

00:12:11.520 a t you know it's a teacher in us who wants to yeah i want to educate and i want to inform and

00:12:15.680 i want to explain to these folks who who are literally like there are people who are literally

00:12:20.640 saying at these protests here in edmonton alberta that kids were getting gender surgery in in schools

00:12:27.600 like the back of the school yeah right and so i mean not only does that have nothing to do with

00:12:32.480 curriculum but that is absolutely like just and and and i guess here's where where you know people

00:12:39.440 like you and me and others come in where we've got a lot of work to do because there's there's an

00:12:44.240 education piece because i truly believe you know there were a lot of people that protest on on you

00:12:49.040 know the side that i wasn't on um that were there because they they genuinely care about their kids

00:12:55.360 and heard that these awful things are happening in schools, right?

00:12:58.660 They're not bad people.

00:12:59.920 They're fearful.

00:13:01.040 They're being 100%.

00:13:02.620 They're being manipulated and led by fear.

00:13:05.020 And the strongest touchstone of that fear you can ever, ever tap into is somebody's kids.

00:13:11.640 It's a brilliant move, sadistic, but brilliant by the other side of the aisle

00:13:16.180 because that's the pressure point.

00:13:19.540 That's their Achilles heel.

00:13:21.480 That's the part you go after and you know, well, if I can convince them,

00:13:24.700 even even if it's happened one time in the past 50 years where you know something untoward has 1.00

00:13:32.060 happened in one school in whatever and i can tell them it's them and right now it's the trans 1.00

00:13:39.580 community they're the problem right let's be honest and heaven help me from what's gone on 0.95

00:13:44.500 in federal government recently certain people are always looking to point the finger and say it's

00:13:50.820 them whether it's 1939 germany whether it's donald trump looking south of the border you know in in

00:13:58.580 1919 whatever it happens to be because if we can look to a group of people and we can say

00:14:05.620 your life is bad because of them if i can i'm gonna take care of them and everything's gonna

00:14:12.180 get better and for people who are scared who lack the knowledge who who whose lives have

00:14:19.220 substantially gotten worse for whatever number of reasons um they want to believe that like they

00:14:25.940 want to believe that right yeah and and i gotta say you know there were a lot of of newcomers to

00:14:31.860 canada at the at the protests and a lot of folks who again you know i i get it you came you came

00:14:37.940 to our country because you wanted better life and better education for your kids so i get it that

00:14:43.700 you know you're hearing these messages and you're yeah you're like you said you're you're fearful

00:14:48.580 And so, you know, I didn't answer your question there, typical politician, but on the piece around curriculum, right?

00:14:54.720 Like, so that's my background, John.

00:14:56.880 I worked in curriculum for years when I came back to Edmonton after being a teacher.

00:15:01.140 I was, so here, we'll just keep interspersing my life story in here.

00:15:04.520 It'll be like, I like it.

00:15:05.860 Like for the love of the game, you know, when they're pitching, he's pitching that no hitter.

00:15:08.860 Yeah, that's right.

00:15:09.480 It's like we planned this.

00:15:10.480 Okay, now back to Janice's life.

00:15:12.440 So what had happened is I took a secondment.

00:15:15.180 So it was supposed to be a three-year position working in the big city on curriculum.

00:15:19.580 And then the plan was I would go back to rural Alberta.

00:15:22.480 Well, you know, plans don't always work out as predicted.

00:15:25.600 And so I ended up staying in Edmonton, got a permanent job working on curriculum.

00:15:30.200 And that's where, you know, I started getting more involved with the NDP.

00:15:33.660 Absolutely.

00:15:35.160 All that to say, you know, we don't have this radical curriculum at all.

00:15:41.040 In fact, most of our curriculum is quite outdated.

00:15:43.380 and and it was the NDP and this is where some of the challenges come from it was the NDP who

00:15:48.320 started a curriculum renewal when they were in government from 2015 to 2019 so they started that

00:15:53.160 in about 2016 and I'm not gonna lie part of that was revamping social studies studies here in

00:15:59.840 Alberta and you know our health and wellness curriculums curricula to be more up to date

00:16:04.360 because a lot of those documents health and wellness in particular there's some of like

00:16:08.780 our high school document which is called career and life management that's you know it's nearly

00:16:13.240 the same document that I learned from. And I'm not, although I look very young, I'm not. And so,

00:16:18.780 yeah, just joking. But you know, so a lot of these documents needed updating, right? There's no

00:16:24.240 discussion of these 21st century issues, reconciliation, climate change, you know,

00:16:31.060 diversity, perspectives on gender, all those things, right? So yes, the NDP had done some of

00:16:37.360 that? Was it extremely radical? And were there, you know, these far left concepts that you're

00:16:43.760 hearing about? No, I mean, it was just a lot more. What was the most radical thing? Give me an

00:16:47.580 example. Like there would have been in the, and again, these are drafts because they never ended

00:16:51.680 up. So what happened? Let me, I should finish the story because people are, no, no, I just realized

00:16:56.180 this is me rambling. So yeah, what happened is the, we didn't get to fulfill that curriculum

00:17:02.760 renewal the documents were we're working on for years uh hundreds of thousands of albertans were

00:17:07.480 consulted then there was an election and then we lost that election exactly that's exactly it so

00:17:14.440 the development process but not the implementation process um so the ucp comes in and they're you

00:17:20.520 know this radical ndp curriculum we're gonna scrap all that what are things that are radical to the

00:17:27.160 the ucp yeah mentions of climate change gender i'm not gonna lie there was converse you know

00:17:31.700 there were conversations about things like uh gender yeah right um and so so that was obviously

00:17:40.080 another like wedge for the ucp to be like oh look at the ndp wants to indoctrinate your kids which

00:17:44.780 again it's very similar to to updated curriculum documents across the country right like there's

00:17:49.740 nothing extreme there but that's so that's where we're at right now is we um they've moved forward

00:17:54.880 with some of the drafts of the like that the UCP have worked on. But there hasn't been full on

00:18:00.120 curriculum renewal across the board. A lot of the curriculum documents in schools right now in K to

00:18:04.040 12 in Alberta are are very outdated. Okay. Well, it's similar to a lot that's gone on. So when

00:18:10.360 Kathleen Wynne passed all of that in Ontario, Doug Ford came back in, and he he put it all back,

00:18:16.300 I think, to 1999 standards. He thought curriculum from 23 years ago was better than talking to

00:18:25.220 young kids about consent for the love of God. But again, he did it under the auspice of veiled

00:18:33.180 notions of sexualizing your kids and veiled notions of all of this stuff, but never actually

00:18:39.760 stipulating what was involved in each curricula point, what was involved in grade one, what was

00:18:46.180 involved in grade two, when you have young girls in grade four, getting their menstrual cycles,

00:18:50.900 it makes pretty good sense that you talk about periods in that grade. It's just, it's a no

00:18:56.180 brainer. That's reality. If you don't want it to be reality, I don't want to tell you, but that's

00:19:00.720 reality. So curriculum and education should reflect the reality of people living in those

00:19:08.420 particular, you know, that particular situation. So it made perfect sense. But again, since he

00:19:14.580 didn't talk about it. And let's be honest, if any of you guys have ever sat at home and tried to

00:19:18.740 read through a curriculum document, you can understand that it's overwhelming. It's long

00:19:25.500 and it's relatively subjective in a, in a lot of different ways. Right. And I should do a whole

00:19:32.160 thing on curriculum. I could do a whole thing on just one element of curriculum for the hell.

00:19:37.440 Even I could rant all day. Yeah. Well, and it, because it's so hard because what,

00:19:41.740 what people don't understand is it doesn't say teach a b and c for 15 minutes each using these

00:19:48.320 talking points it doesn't say that it says at some point you know within this unit speak about

00:19:54.040 residential schools what listen you i could speak about residential schools for an entire unit

00:20:01.300 so it becomes a lot more vague and nondescript than than you think it would be so but at the

00:20:08.660 very least mentioning these things at least opens the door for healthy discussion and debate and

00:20:15.520 bringing all ideas to the table. Like when I was a kid, there was no, I've never heard. When I went

00:20:22.600 through all of my education to my master's, never once heard of residential school. Never one time.

00:20:28.900 And I was teaching for a good 10 years, probably, maybe not quite, before that it was in the

00:20:38.540 curriculum and in the textbook in any other way than saying at the side of the margin, you know,

00:20:43.280 residential schools were used to help foster relationships between indigenous and like that 0.98

00:20:50.360 stupid little blue writing before it was actually something legitimate. So to change it like this 0.97

00:20:56.620 is incredibly impossible. But didn't Jason Kenney get in there and he did tackle education a little

00:21:02.220 bit because he did change. What was what were the nature of some of the aspects he changed? I know

00:21:07.980 he changed a lot when it came to he sounded like he was parroting an awful lot a little of DeSantis

00:21:13.920 in the sense of we're not going to focus on the negative stuff anymore here guys we're going to

00:21:18.960 focus on my dad who sang the blues or something people are really good memory yeah so yeah so

00:21:25.060 one of the the the uh ridiculous aspects of the so the UCP curriculum changes again they you know

00:21:31.960 they scrapped the NDP curriculum even though again you know we I know because I was there

00:21:36.620 we had curriculum experts we had you know of course with expertise and developmental appropriateness

00:21:42.740 all the things right you know i don't have to list everybody involved right and then yeah i think we

00:21:47.420 do by the way we should do another one because i think we do i think there needs to be a whole

00:21:51.620 podcast talking about what goes on curriculum development because i swear to god people think 0.95

00:21:55.980 just one you know ndp liberal or even conservative candidate sits in a room and comes up with crap 0.55

00:22:02.300 rather than basing it in real science and psychological and sociological development 0.96

00:22:08.260 for age-appropriate, intelligent individuals.

00:22:11.760 But continue.

00:22:12.240 And the other big challenge is people don't know the difference between curriculum and pedagogy, right?

00:22:18.160 And just classroom environments, right?

00:22:20.660 So, you know, people will say, again, we're hearing like,

00:22:23.700 oh, there's all this stuff in the curriculum, which is absolutely not true.

00:22:25.580 But they see a pride flag in the school and think that's curriculum.

00:22:29.160 You're like, no, this isn't curriculum, right?

00:22:31.160 So, again, that's a lot of the challenge that we have ahead of us is to try to, you know, explain to people what's actually happening in schools from a curriculum standpoint and from a, you know, what's happening in this at the school, the school level.

00:22:44.640 Right. But again, that's a whole whole other conversation. But you're right.

00:22:47.400 So Jason Kenney did come in and he he clearly had his fingers on on some of the curriculum documents because, yeah, he I can't even remember the name.

00:22:53.720 I love that you remember that. What was his name? Oh, Mart, Mart Kenney.

00:22:58.060 I think it was, like, Jason Kenney's relative who was, like, a musician.

00:23:02.280 I think it was his dad or his grandfather.

00:23:04.760 Yeah.

00:23:04.840 Like, something.

00:23:05.920 Right?

00:23:07.440 So stuff like that, right?

00:23:10.360 Yeah.

00:23:10.900 And, of course, just, yeah, very much making curriculum a very much a political wedge,

00:23:18.800 even though they would say that, you know, we were politicizing it.

00:23:21.160 It's like, no, we, you know, we consulted so many people.

00:23:24.020 And, in fact, curriculum development had kicked off under the previous PC government,

00:23:27.880 right there was there were these conversations happening since like 2010 which is right UCP

00:23:32.940 came to town right so having worked there because I worked in with the ministry of education uh for

00:23:38.600 years under a PC government right then under the NDP and not under the UCP because I was elected by

00:23:45.800 then right but you know you could see that this was you know this was not a political process prior

00:23:50.720 to the UCP coming around and suddenly it was Jason Kenney's uncle or whatever the heck it was uh who was

00:23:57.880 being named in the curriculum and that was the other wild thing oh gosh I'm sorry we how much

00:24:01.580 time do we have but like much as you want yeah that's right you know like you know we really

00:24:06.900 much moving away from those very um prescriptive curriculum documents of the past right you can

00:24:11.980 look at Alberta social studies again I know too much about this but you can look at Alberta social

00:24:15.980 studies curriculum documents from decades ago where it was rote learning where it was you know

00:24:19.860 list of list of topics that you needed to memorize we know that's not you know that's not how kids

00:24:25.520 learn and that's not how you know that's not that's not the way in which they should be learning

00:24:29.600 and this is where we were seeing this this um step backwards to this kind of rote learning and like

00:24:34.740 you know there was an example and I'll get this wrong but I believe Genghis Khan was mentioned

00:24:39.140 in like grade two social studies or something again because Jason Kenney would come from the 0.69

00:24:43.580 school of oh yeah kids need to you know they need to memorize the names of just just ridiculous 0.85

00:24:49.020 right? So anyways, I think that the certain people take education and what they want to do

00:24:57.100 is simplify it and give the pretense of objectivity. And I've always laughed at the

00:25:04.580 notion of objectivity in education. And I don't mean that in a people are trying to indoctrinate

00:25:10.760 your kids. I mean that in a very practical and realistic notion that we are all biased in

00:25:18.240 teaching from a Canadian, for the most part, French-English perspective, Judeo-Christian,

00:25:24.740 that's our bias. That's where we're coming from. So let's put that on the table right away.

00:25:29.420 And I think they like to give the pretense when we get into a bunch of critical thinking and you get

00:25:34.560 grade five, grade six, grade seven kids critically thinking or allowed to have conversations,

00:25:40.120 all of a sudden, the more traditional aspects of our culture and our generations go, oh,

00:25:45.520 no no no I don't like that I don't want them critically thinking because now they're going

00:25:50.980 to be critically thinking about the things I expect them to do and the way I expect them to

00:25:55.220 interact and now they're challenging me so in fact when you when you open up education and you make

00:26:02.800 it less dogmatic you make it more critical it actually opens up way more conversations way more

00:26:10.060 areas, way more perspectives, but there's the parent right thing. Because what, in my opinion,

00:26:16.980 the parents right activists outside of the scared ones that have been misled by really bad

00:26:22.280 information, what they're really looking to do is indoctrinate. What they really want to do for

00:26:28.220 their kids, and they believe it is their right since they're their little tiny biological

00:26:33.300 property. They are looking to how can I make them just like me and whether that's in whatever

00:26:41.100 capacity. And if education is competing with that, I want to stop that heads off because obviously

00:26:48.460 I've always said this. People say, well, don't you like any tradition? I said, well, if it serves.

00:26:55.500 Sure. I love Thanksgiving. My family got complicated for a minute. I stopped. I didn't

00:27:02.220 keep doing it because i thought bashing my head against the wall was good during you know because

00:27:08.060 it was thanksgiving and i always do it no no no you don't have to do it when it no longer serves

00:27:13.900 and it's no longer beneficial and and you know um useful in your life and that's true for everything

00:27:21.500 so when they say things like well i don't want them talking about parents should have the right

00:27:25.820 to say when i talk to my kid about you know about gay kids or when i talk to my kid about

00:27:31.580 about gender or the trans community or when I talk to my kids about, and I'm like, 0.53

00:27:36.380 but would the same logic go if a parent called in and said, you know, I don't want my son or 0.94

00:27:41.740 daughter playing with the kid who happens to be Jewish. It's my parents' right, isn't it? 0.98

00:27:46.460 Isn't that the same logic? Isn't it the same logic that segregated schools? It's a parent's

00:27:51.720 right. I mean, that's the only, you are using the exact same logic that fostered such horrific

00:27:59.300 anti-semitism anti-islamic um culture uh uh you know racism and bigotry you are now using it

00:28:08.820 you've shifted it all that's all wrong now but you've shifted it all to make the exact same

00:28:15.300 arguments the exact same premise against a whole different kind of community because you think

00:28:21.860 how you think and who you want your kid around is yeah i know and you know what

00:28:28.260 one of the interesting things is you just, and I, I heard this a lot, um, you know, working in

00:28:34.540 curriculum to just like, there's this fear of change, right? So, um, parents, parents also

00:28:40.540 saying, well, I learned, I want my kids to learn what I learned as if, you know, as if we can't,

00:28:46.660 uh, we can't shift. You know, there was a conversation around diploma exams, which we

00:28:50.920 have these exams that are worth like 50% of your grade in grade 12. And I still remember parents

00:28:54.940 being like, well, my kids should have to write these exams because I had to write them. And I'm

00:28:58.640 like, well, yeah, but can we, can we at least kind of, you know, assess the psychological impact,

00:29:03.880 the need, does it have to be, you know, we know, we know there's a lot of research around high

00:29:07.700 stakes testing and 50% of a grade, right? Like, so, and just the absolute hesitation, even from

00:29:12.800 people internally in government to like have these conversations because like, no, this is,

00:29:16.120 this is the way it's always been, right? It's always been. And that's tapping into two things.

00:29:20.720 Number one, fear of change. But number two, this ridiculous sensation of nostalgia.

00:29:26.980 I mean, Trump got elected under it. The idea of make America great again. The reason why that was

00:29:32.820 so unfortunately brilliant is because no matter who you are, I could show you a whole wall of

00:29:39.360 toys I have over there. No matter who you are, if I can tap into your sense of nostalgia when you

00:29:44.300 were a kid and you felt safe and happy, no sense of responsibility, you felt like things were good.

00:29:50.120 first of all you were wrong you were just unaware number one you weren't that's not what it was but

00:29:56.360 if i can tap into that right and then i can tell you i'm gonna bring it back to the good old days

00:30:02.200 yeah nostalgia is a freaking first of all it cost me a lot of money but second of all it's one of 0.98

00:30:08.520 those easily to manipulate individuals right to do a lot of really horrifically stupid things and 0.98

00:30:15.320 we've seen it throughout the united states and unfortunately you know it's pushing up here in a 0.94

00:30:20.200 grand sweeping scale um but i think they really like with those tests and standardized tests they

00:30:26.360 like the idea that they can do something quick easy and cheap in order to assess somebody's 0.98

00:30:35.720 academic or intellectual potential everybody in academia academia knows that's bull crap 0.66

00:30:41.800 everything doesn't work can't be cheap it can't be quick and it can't be easy that's not what

00:30:47.800 learning is it never can be those things but if i can convince a population that i can do it

00:30:53.320 cheap and quick it's not going to cost them any more tax dollars and it's going to be objective

00:30:58.360 and i'm going to get a clear picture and it's going to be a throwback to when you were a kid

00:31:03.000 vote me in now yeah i could run on that tomorrow yeah although what's interesting is i mean there's

00:31:09.320 a whole there's because i i worked in it a little bit there's a whole um there's a lot of resources

00:31:14.600 and money that goes into assessment in alberta just as one example right but but but it is just

00:31:20.760 so fascinating to to also hear that argument that like well i went i went through it i had to do it

00:31:27.640 so my kids should have to do it or all every kid should have to do it right and just yeah and i

00:31:32.840 I mean, you know, educational research has shifted a lot and it's worrisome that we have

00:31:39.680 policymakers that aren't willing to, you know, when it comes to curriculum, to look at best

00:31:44.340 practices for curriculum development and implementation.

00:31:46.800 And no, that's going out the door, right?

00:31:48.680 Because of ideology.

00:31:50.620 Right.

00:31:51.020 What do you think about, and I've tossed this around, I've obviously never been in politics,

00:31:54.800 but what do you think about education provincially being nonpartisan, meaning the government

00:32:02.260 in power never gets to decide any of it they can it just needs to be a separate functioning

00:32:10.880 um entity that is you know still government run and maybe you have conservative members

00:32:19.520 liberal you can have all of the people in it but those people don't change depending on what the

00:32:23.880 government changes because they're not politicized they are functioning on a academic social

00:32:31.100 psychological child development centered model to do what's best for education irrespective of

00:32:37.960 who's in government yeah i mean like dream world for sure um that sounds no but that yeah

00:32:43.940 i know i know and it's and truly and again we're in alberta where you know this um the conversations

00:32:52.380 around fiscal conservatism and just you know those that language is always used by the by the

00:32:57.780 governing conservatives and yet you know the amount the millions of dollars and the hundreds

00:33:03.800 of thousands of hours that went into those curriculum drafts under the NDP government

00:33:07.600 and that were just tossed out right without like like what an example of of government waste right

00:33:13.500 there but to your point had you had this you know um again how it would work we would how we'd have

00:33:19.760 to we'd have to work that out but yeah if you had you had this standalone um arm's length body right

00:33:26.520 Should it not be the fourth branch of government? Should it not be Supreme Court-esque? Is education not that, first of all, I'd nationalize education, no, like it should be consistent across Canada. But should it not be Supreme Court-esque in the sense that it doesn't tap into the other branch? It is a standalone. It has its own power. It has its own sort of consistent sense of funding. And I just, it makes so much more sense to me.

00:33:53.720 And then not only would you not get all that waste, heaven help us, we would get consistent curriculum throughout the ages that might not be perfect, but is not going to leave kids with 1998 sex ed curriculum that I took because Doug Ford doesn't want to talk about gender because it mucks up his base.

00:34:15.400 Yeah, I mean, listen, you're preaching to the choir on this one.

00:34:18.660 So, yeah, no. And that was that was part of what was what was baked into our curriculum model as well is curriculum renewal in that, you know, what would happen historically with curriculum documents, you know, this is a teacher, you know, you'd get that, you'd get that document printed off. And, you know, that was your that was your guide. I'm talking, you know, 20 years ago, when you and I were both starting to take us 20, not 20 for me, but 15. I can't again, not a math teacher.

00:34:43.860 anyways um you know you'd have that document and you'd you know you'd work through it um

00:34:48.720 and yeah I still remember actually great example oh my gosh when I started teaching which was uh

00:34:53.260 2006 so yeah I guess you know 18 years ago um we still had the old and older social studies

00:34:59.580 curriculum and um the the textbook and of course the textbook for anybody who doesn't know is not

00:35:04.740 curriculum but regardless it was so funny because the text it was about um the social studies 30

00:35:09.680 the grade 12 curriculum at the time um was still about the soviet union and whatnot and this text

00:35:14.080 i'll get it wrong but it basically ended with like because the textbook was written in 1987 and of

00:35:19.020 course yeah right so this textbook which was funny like i didn't use it very much with the kids but

00:35:25.780 you you know the textbook ended like you know uh the soviet union is as at a time of change what

00:35:32.360 will happen next right you're just like and you know i wish i still had that textbook i would

00:35:37.420 want to frame that last page. Cause I think that's amazing. What I also find amazing is I start every

00:35:43.520 year by handing the kids, sitting down, telling them the textbook they have to buy and showing

00:35:48.280 it to them, you know, give them the cover or whatever. I said, this guy, you gotta go buy

00:35:51.640 this by, you know, tell them where to get it from. And I said, so guys, this goes from 1914 to 2000

00:35:58.360 and it's this thick. What do we think? And they'll kind of look at me and they'll be like,

00:36:04.860 what do you mean i'm like well i want a lot of people want their students to be aware of my

00:36:10.900 bias yeah i want you to be aware of my bias i want you to be aware of mistakes made in this book i

00:36:15.780 want you to fact check things blah blah blah you know what i want you to be more aware of than that

00:36:20.640 because you can if i say something to you my kids will be on their phones and they don't believe me

00:36:26.080 they're like joanna like they're checking me real quick that's not the danger of education in my

00:36:33.420 opinion or the danger of media or the danger of all these things people talk about it's not about

00:36:38.700 what's in it it's about what i decided not to even touch that's the scary part what's not in this book

00:36:46.540 why is it not in the book this is like maybe 400 pages for how many years yeah who decided what

00:36:54.140 goes in there who decided what's excluded from that now that is an interesting conversation but

00:37:00.540 But that's not one anyone ever talks about.

00:37:02.500 I can see somebody's bias coming a mile away.

00:37:05.140 I can't see what they left out.

00:37:07.580 I can't see what they, which is why when I was a kid, never knew about, you know, residential

00:37:13.020 schools, had no idea, didn't even, I couldn't question it.

00:37:16.560 I couldn't even talk about it because it was never put in front of me in any significant

00:37:20.560 way.

00:37:21.000 And well, I didn't have the internet.

00:37:22.900 So there was that as well, right?

00:37:25.440 Yeah.

00:37:25.600 And again, and when you told that story, I was like, this is totally me as well.

00:37:28.800 Like I, same thing.

00:37:29.820 i didn't know about residential schools until i started teaching uh right i mean i didn't we

00:37:34.640 didn't learn about it in the previous social studies curriculum and now fortunately we have

00:37:37.680 a we have a newer it's now like you know 15 years old a newer curriculum that just came in just as i

00:37:42.660 was starting to teach um that residential schools are embedded throughout the curriculum at various

00:37:47.640 grade levels yeah which is great um but again same thing like and and you know i i had a lot

00:37:53.480 of conversations about that with teachers too and like a lot of teachers like you talked about i

00:37:57.740 I mean, you and I, we're, you know, we're, we're settlers on this land.

00:38:01.860 And like, I know how many teachers were very much struggling to teach residential schools,

00:38:06.700 not because they didn't want to, but because they just felt so ill-equipped, right?

00:38:10.940 And so.

00:38:11.960 Look, those are hard conversations to have.

00:38:14.740 If we're being brutally honest, we don't, sitting in front of your, because I know that

00:38:19.600 I talk about it with even my grade sevens and eights and sitting and talking about what

00:38:23.840 went on in those schools to those kids is horrific. But in the same breath, we did a very

00:38:32.860 large art project the other year, last year for Ruby Bridges. And my kids did this sort of a

00:38:40.160 replica of that very famous painting. And I'm like, if that six-year-old can walk into that

00:38:46.340 school surrounded by US marshals while parents are shouting out parental rights, throwing crap

00:38:53.560 at her my grade seven and eights can talk about this yeah right that's the bottom line and this

00:38:59.960 this is it and that's where you know um this is where it's so important that you you know the

00:39:05.360 teachers of course have um the the resources the professional development to to to guide them along

00:39:11.600 this journey and you know it's one of the really interesting things and again the social studies

00:39:16.300 curriculum in alberta was was done was done well it was done over um a number of years again like

00:39:21.620 you know, with, with previous PC governments, they, you know, they did a really good job of

00:39:27.100 like, you can actually, you can have conversations around residential schools with students at young

00:39:31.780 ages, right? You know, you start as early as kindergarten talking about belonging, right?

00:39:37.660 And without, without talking about the, the, the brutality of residential schools,

00:39:42.380 you can start those conversations though, around isolation and around, like there's ways that you

00:39:48.660 can really, you know, that you can really help, you know, well, you know, scaffold kids learning

00:39:53.400 so that when they are ready for those deeper conversations about residential schools, they've

00:39:57.940 had that groundwork laid for them, right? So. Well, and again, we will tap into some of the

00:40:04.260 issues that are going on today and things that are people are fighting, but you talk very, very

00:40:08.720 specifically as young as possible about how important it is, how powerful, how amazing it is

00:40:13.980 that each individual kid has their own identity that will be respected. And you can run 17

00:40:21.100 different ways to Sunday with that word identity, but it goes into every single thing that makes up

00:40:26.000 that kid. And don't we want them to feel empowered and incredible and strong and confident about

00:40:33.480 every single part of themselves from the way they do their hair to the clothes they choose to wear

00:40:39.140 to the names they want to be called, all of it, every aspect, to the religion they practice,

00:40:44.520 to where their family comes, to the languages they speak. And how dare parents use parental rights

00:40:51.880 to try to mitigate that for some children. It makes me so frustrated that I actually have

00:41:00.260 sometimes very hard times trying to have that conversation. People will say,

00:41:05.120 Joanna why are you always so calm and cool or whatever in your TikToks I'm like because I don't

00:41:09.420 release the ones where I swear I delete those ones because I wasn't articulate I allowed my emotion

00:41:15.740 to usurp the the incredibly important message so I wait I take a breath I have a tea and I do it

00:41:23.400 again I do it again so so the more important thing gets across but that's that's the foundation of

00:41:30.240 everything. And we, you can talk about trans issues all you want in, in a specific category

00:41:36.200 of identity, but that's just an aspect of a huge part of identity that we should be moving

00:41:43.600 mountains to allow kids to have moving mountains. And I think that's the hardest part. And that's

00:41:49.380 why, you know, I always, you know, I always reflect on, and I very much acknowledge my

00:41:53.460 privilege, right? I'm a white cisgender woman with a lot of privilege. I'm like you, I'm

00:41:58.780 comfortable in my identity and my sexuality but i remember too well when i wasn't and i think right

00:42:04.960 now about that kid with two moms right yeah seeing these protests with that kid who's struggling with

00:42:11.640 their own identity right now right that kid who's being told at home that uh feeling that way or you

00:42:18.780 know the the feelings that they're having are are wrong are invalid right and this is where it's 0.96

00:42:22.520 like, shit, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't want to be spending so much energy being angry 0.97

00:42:29.300 at these people that are promoting hate, because I want to spend a lot of that energy, making it so 0.99

00:42:33.700 those kids feel safe, right? And right to get there, though, we have to, we have to tackle the

00:42:40.320 hate. So it's, I've been thinking about it a lot. It's just because it's, you know, it's, it's,

00:42:45.760 I really thought, and I know you probably were feeling this too, I really thought that things

00:42:49.980 where, you know, things were getting better for a while there, right? I just thought like, you know

00:42:54.420 what? There's always a pendulum, right? There's always a pendulum. Like when I started teaching,

00:43:01.220 I remember my kids, I wasn't out when I started teaching because I was terrified I was gonna get

00:43:05.080 fired for being gay. Which, by the way, I work at an amazing school, 21 years. I mean, obviously

00:43:11.140 wasn't an issue, but I remember my kids, I always taught politics, heavily debating whether it was

00:43:17.160 okay to be gay. Like half the room saying yes, half the room saying absolutely no. And I remember

00:43:22.140 going, what is going on? And then like five years later, that debate went away and everybody was

00:43:26.540 bored by it because they're like, who cares? And then they would debate gay marriage. And then

00:43:31.940 that went away. And then they would debate gay adoption. And then that went away. And here we

00:43:37.520 sit at the next massive debate. But here's the funny part. The debate's not happening with kids

00:43:44.380 anymore. Because you know what kids think about all this? Nothing. They think nothing. A kid will

00:43:51.480 come up to them and say, oh, what pronouns you want to use? They, them. Okay, cool. Are we going

00:43:55.840 to play basketball today? Or do we have, that's it. That's as much thought, unless you're being

00:44:01.260 specifically programmed. And the reason why I think these protests are happened in this way

00:44:07.080 is because those adults that are trying so carefully to curate exactly how their kids

00:44:13.720 think and who they accept in their lives and what's okay and what's not okay for their whatever

00:44:17.880 their reasoning is those same kids on the whole not the ones that get on cbc saying horrific

00:44:24.520 things but on the whole those kids are coming home saying you know oh my my friend sally goes

00:44:29.960 by they them it's so cool that they can just choose that off to the room they go and then

00:44:33.640 their parents go what what's happening in the school my kid is accepting something

00:44:38.440 that's where it's coming from so this pushback we're feeling it will be washed away just like

00:44:44.680 all the rest of the bigotry just like it always has been this is the part we have to weather

00:44:49.780 yeah i don't know and again it's probably just because it's it's been really um on my mind so

00:44:55.600 much i i want to be hopeful and i i but i i think i don't think we can sit back and not that you're

00:45:00.940 saying this but you know just yeah i i do think like we really do um there needs to be a concerted

00:45:07.720 effort from a lot of people to show up and I think again because I'm in the Edmonton context

00:45:12.500 I just have to tell you like so I showed up to the protest late because I just I had meetings

00:45:17.280 that I couldn't move and so I got there and when I got there the you know the people on on my side

00:45:24.380 for lack of a better way of framing it were marching and so most a couple people had stayed

00:45:29.460 back but then it was all of them and so it was like you know it was a gut it was just it was

00:45:33.860 heartbreaking for me because there were so many of them with some really awful signs and of course

00:45:38.700 they saw me and many of them recognized me so I was immediately targeted and you know people

00:45:42.960 filming me and yelling at me whatever again I don't care I can I can handle that I'd rather

00:45:47.820 be me than a than a trans kid getting attacked for sure um but what was what you know you said 0.99

00:45:53.800 the point about kids and I agree like for the most part kids don't give a care right they don't like 0.56

00:45:58.520 it's for the most part at all it's already yeah yeah for the most part kids have moved along but

00:46:04.300 i'm very worried and again this is from the context that i'm seeing that things are shifting

00:46:09.220 a little bit there too because one of the things that happened uh at the protest last week in

00:46:13.980 edmonton is our our people were marching by the local high school where the march was taking place

00:46:19.320 and there were a number of high school students there who were yelling obscenities at them who

00:46:24.640 were you were following them who were giving them the middle finger and this is like at a school in

00:46:29.600 a progressive part of edmonton i mean all of edmonton is ndp right the whole whole city of

00:46:33.600 edmonton is is is orange and so like this is happening this is happening here in edmonton

00:46:38.800 and so i guess it's a call to me and to to elected officials and to teachers and to anybody who has

00:46:44.800 who has the platform and the ability to teach and to educate to to to be vigilant and and to realize

00:46:50.800 Like this, it feels like things are shifting in a really significant way and clearly a negative way.

00:46:59.440 And so, and again, maybe it's just the way I'm feeling right now, Joanna, but like, I just.

00:47:03.480 I understand what you're saying.

00:47:05.060 Absolutely.

00:47:05.420 I do think though, because again, 21 years of teaching, I do think those angry kids and those, the kids you're talking about, given the right.

00:47:17.220 because i guarantee they come from i would put money on abusive homes 100 i put money the kids

00:47:25.000 shouting obscenities and giving the finger they come from very problematic homes kids that come

00:47:31.680 from those homes are looking for an outlet and we are seeing them being able to utilize this as

00:47:37.960 a rage outlet when five years ago it would have gone somewhere else we just wouldn't have noticed

00:47:44.300 that's it's a genuine it's a general understanding because i've you see those kids turn it you know

00:47:52.720 they end up becoming that bully they end up becoming maybe joining groups of people they

00:47:59.100 shouldn't be joining or getting involved in criminal activity they shouldn't be joining

00:48:02.520 all of that is the outlet of stuff that's gone on and that's unfortunately transcendent because

00:48:09.420 if we really started looking at the damage that's being done to our youth, if we really started

00:48:15.500 using that, if we started looking at SA and what goes on, every so concerned about

00:48:21.600 sexualization of kids and using the G word and all of that kind of stuff, we really started

00:48:27.080 admitting where that's happening. The call is coming from inside the house. It is. It always

00:48:32.880 has. Statistically, we're talking easily 75 to 80% of horrible things that are happening to kids

00:48:40.100 are happening within their homes. That's something where I sit back and go, because then it's just

00:48:47.940 this horrible snowball, this horrific snowball, right? Then I start to think, now what do we do?

00:48:54.720 The more of these parent rights, because what I've been thinking of a lot lately, and I think

00:48:59.960 it's going to align with what you're saying, is where's the child's right? Why are we talking

00:49:06.520 about, we can talk about parent rights, teacher rights, police rights, nurses rights. Where the

00:49:13.680 hell are we talking about inalienable rights and protections that kids have? And I'm not just

00:49:22.700 saying somebody that five, but I sure as hell am including them. Where do we start talking about

00:49:28.020 what their rights are, because I'm real tired of hearing them as being extensions of parental

00:49:32.840 property for them to do with whatever. Because everybody's like, well, that's the way it is. I'm

00:49:38.000 like, no, it's not. We've been putting more and more limits and rational laws on parents. They

00:49:46.000 just can't do whatever the hell they want. We've changed, right? We've grown. Maybe now is really

00:49:52.440 the time to start understanding what kids should have the right to be and say and how they should

00:49:59.780 have the right to live. And I think it has to, it has to start with the inalienable right to a common

00:50:09.220 rational education. Because if I take that away from a kid, if I take that away purposefully in

00:50:18.080 order to indoctrinate in order to convince in order to limit i don't understand how that is an

00:50:23.680 abuse yeah yeah no i i hear you on that and i want to clarify too like i those those kids i'm not mad

00:50:31.400 at those kids that were no you can't be you know you know that it's coming from something yeah yeah

00:50:35.880 and you just think about like you said what what's happening at home guaranteed guaranteed some of

00:50:41.740 those kids spreading hate are struggling themselves right absolutely and it's a way of

00:50:46.480 looking back and repressing and all the things um and i also think back you know and i've told

00:50:51.820 this many times and i don't mind saying it and i'm sure you have similar stories like

00:50:55.440 i myself was homophobic 100 kid right like yes right i'm from rural alberta not that that's

00:51:03.800 that that means that i'd be homophobic but like i remember you mentioned gay marriage i remember

00:51:08.000 that debate in high school i remember being like gay people can't get married right you know like 0.64

00:51:13.080 ridiculous yeah right and and even even as a as an adult like i remember being in university and 0.96

00:51:20.240 having a conversation around bisexuality and and you know just saying the most ridiculous like 0.98

00:51:24.900 thinking like oh as if you could be attracted to like come on pick a gender right and i'm like 0.91

00:51:31.120 so i always and you know what and and this and this is where you know your whole podcast and

00:51:35.960 your your tiktoks are just so the whole the learning and the and the unlearning is just

00:51:40.240 just so um so so critical right and and again i don't think it's just because we're educators

00:51:46.360 it's just that this this is the time right where you know i'm okay and i i've said this so many

00:51:51.220 times in the legislature and outside the legislature like i want to talk about the

00:51:55.500 facts that i've made mistakes the fact that i've made mistakes right that i've i've i've i've been

00:52:00.880 wrong so many times and that that causes me to to respond to other people with empathy another

00:52:07.780 example i remember the first time one of my friends about 10 years ago um said they were

00:52:12.500 using they them pronouns so you know i was mostly a social studies teacher but the english teacher

00:52:17.300 in me was like wait a minute like wait i probably won't even remember like you know sub what is it

00:52:24.340 subject pronoun agreement like no all this they i'm not interested yeah like this doesn't work

00:52:29.700 grammatically like there's there's no way right and again this was me 10 years ago when i was

00:52:34.420 already starting to come out myself and i was right so i i have a lot of um compassion i guess

00:52:40.500 maybe it's the word understanding for folks who are you know struggling with um you know ideas

00:52:45.700 around it feels like it's what it means to be transgender the cisgender the list goes on right

00:52:52.100 like i i was there so i get it right um but it's one thing so to come back to what you started with

00:52:58.100 in this podcast you know like it's one thing to um you know to to be willing to um uh engage in

00:53:06.340 these conversations but some there are those people who are so closed off right and that

00:53:11.700 respond with hate and so you know i i want to be able to talk to people who disagree because i've

00:53:17.220 been there right or or people who are who are um you know coming across as um prejudiced or

00:53:24.020 homophobic whatever it might be but if they're not coming to me with a place of being willing

00:53:28.420 to listen and talk it makes it challenging so i'm ranting now so you're not ranting i think

00:53:34.660 that was amazing i think i've taken up a whole hour of your time so i'm going to try to limit

00:53:39.060 it can you give me one and it could be completely off the off point but can you give me if you were

00:53:46.420 could could describe you and what you stand for in the ndp and alberta what do you think

00:53:52.500 think maybe the top three things that you stand for that you would support or that you would fight

00:53:58.400 for um within your province right now what like you okay this is like just so the audience knows

00:54:07.280 we did not prep this at all so like that's like no so this is a little tricky for me to just like

00:54:12.900 think of um three things so you know this is me stalling here uh look at that sun on my face for

00:54:20.860 the people watching. That's nice. Where's the cat? I know, I'm wondering where Oregano is, but

00:54:25.740 hopefully he'll come back. Oregano. Three things that I stand for, gosh, because I think I'm going

00:54:34.840 to give you, I'm going to vamp so you can have time to think. I think a lot of times the average

00:54:41.440 voter gets a little bit frustrated with the lengthy list of things a lot of politicians

00:54:46.500 will promise. And I've often said, I would be really in love with a politician who could boil,

00:54:54.920 could not say, this isn't the only things I care about. But because if I gave you a list of 20,

00:55:01.100 I can't do them all. I'm going to give you a list of three that I am going to die on each one of

00:55:06.520 those hills this term. I feel like that would be a lot more, that would resonate a lot more and

00:55:13.580 people could understand clearly now here's the problem for voters when they're expecting

00:55:17.840 ridiculousness and like bring down my taxes and give me more social services you you end up

00:55:23.180 marginalizing and I get it we have a long list so we cast a big net but right now I'm asking you to 0.55

00:55:28.120 just cast an authentic net yeah and I mean I'll I'll be speaking for me but I think what what

00:55:34.220 comes yeah what comes to mind for me um human rights public services and community and you know

00:55:44.620 we can obviously human rights we can we we've talked a lot about what i mean by that and again

00:55:48.940 it's not not just about protecting the rights of trans kids and the 2s lgb community um but you

00:55:55.700 know thinking about my my muslim neighbors who've been subject to so much hate in our city in our

00:56:02.780 province and how we can really come together right how these communities many of our communities

00:56:07.480 have faced um you know similar discrimination and hate and now's the time that we we need to come

00:56:13.220 together right and we need to support each other so that's a big one um public services i mean i

00:56:18.460 just this is my way of talking about education and health care and the need to protect both of

00:56:22.900 those things and obviously as a teacher and and somebody oh my god we could do a whole other

00:56:26.480 podcast and help yeah and and then just ending with community in the sense that uh community

00:56:32.620 has been something that's just so central to my work as a politician um I don't mean that just as

00:56:38.980 showing up in the neighborhoods that I represent um but in the values of what it means to be

00:56:44.700 to be and to come together and at a time when when we need it and uh you know I get I get

00:56:51.640 accused of law of being divisive. And it's just like, listen, if I, if standing up for human

00:56:56.180 rights and for love and respect for all is divisive, then sure enough, I'm divisive. Right.

00:57:01.220 You know? Right. I love it. Janice, thank you so much for being on my podcast. I would really

00:57:07.260 love it. Whenever you carve out time, you throw me a text, I'll get your email right the first time

00:57:12.140 on the next time. And I would love to have you back on, talk about as many things as you possibly

00:57:17.860 want to talk about i love this thanks for the opportunity and you keep crushing it out there

00:57:22.500 on tiktok all right and we got to have some crossovers much love and to everybody listening

00:57:27.440 thank you guys for listening or thank you guys for watching and i'll see you next time

00:57:31.700 same bat time same bat station dismissed

Unlearn16: Class is in Session - October 03, 2023

The One Where I Bring Alberta To Ontario To Talk Politics

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