00:00:00.000classes in session and welcome to unlearn 16 classes in session guys i'm beside myself
00:00:08.300i'm beside myself because today look at this gentleman sitting right over here today we have
00:00:13.800adam bush former current lifelong buffy the vampire slayer cast member and i think my true
00:00:23.080love developed because i'm not gonna lie you had a lot to overcome with warren was over i'm sorry
00:00:28.800you're going to carry the moniker forever, was over interacting with you and listening to you
00:00:34.880and hearing your opinions on Twitter and the ability to be articulate and to the point and
00:00:40.740funny and intelligent and all of those beautiful things. I am very thankful you decided to come on
00:00:47.580today. Thank you so much for having me. I think today we're going to talk about a lot of stuff,
00:00:52.520guys. We're going to talk a little bit about Buffy because I can't help myself,
00:00:55.120But we're also going to talk about politics. We're going to talk about society. We're going to talk about some social justice issues. We have no idea which place this can possibly go. But since we're taping this on Election Day in the United States, Adam, how do you feel in the pit of your stomach about today?
00:01:16.920In the pit of my stomach, I have a bad feeling, but I normally feel that way.
00:01:20.380I feel like there was some progress and there was some backward movement and it's frustrating.
00:01:27.160And so what is the like, I mean, I travel to the United States a lot and you're in California right now.0.99
00:01:34.060What would you say the vibe is like you come from a very progressive state, but there's there's interesting parts about California because it's such a huge state.
00:01:41.680and I and it is interesting you can go from one district to the next and be like on a whole
00:01:46.400different planet um what what do you feel like the vibe is there right now there's a lot of good
00:01:52.800things happening in California there were a lot of nice um there was uh Robert Garcia one that was
00:01:58.160very exciting for us it looks like Rex Richardson will win that's very exciting for us I hope Fatima
00:02:03.280wins for assembly that's very exciting and it's all moving the right way but Rick Caruso is really
00:02:07.840scary and it's very divided over him and it's very personal and it's very um aggressive and
00:02:14.760and violent and it's it's a it's being used really well to divide people here in california because
00:02:21.080that just seems to be the issue that's the new trump that's the new maga hat is how you feel
00:02:25.880about caruso right right and do you think i mean okay so we're talking about politics it's funny
00:02:31.940the way that we get people involved in politics i think this heightened level i mean and i don't
00:02:36.760want to spend much time talking about Trump, but this increased heightened level of divisiveness,
00:02:43.740of us versus them, of the future versus the past, of really sedimenting, that's not even a word,
00:02:52.640cementing? I know what you meant. Really cementing you into one idea or the next. Do you feel as
00:03:00.840though that's the driving force, like that kind of oppositional tactic?
00:03:05.700I feel like in America, ever since Karl Rove, that 51% needed to win mentality has stayed
00:03:12.020dominant in politics. And I feel like in more positive ways, that's how art has become. It's
00:03:18.380become very niche. There's not as many global hits. Everything is very specific and speaks
00:03:23.460to its own little audience. And I feel like politics has moved that way. Also, in a disappointing
00:03:30.360way. Whereas people are not looking to get everyone. They're just looking to get their
00:03:34.800little base and get them riled up and then have them lead. Right. Right. What, what would you say,
00:03:41.380like, and I know you don't mind talking politics, but what would you say you were going to list off
00:03:45.880three things? What are the three things you care about? Three things. That's all you get.
00:03:50.920In terms of whatever, you can decide those parameters in terms of whatever, when you think
00:03:58.300about where the United States stands, where you want them to go as a person, what you think the
00:04:03.900best sort of societal development looks like? What three things would you put at top of your agenda?
00:04:09.940They would have to be pro-choice. They would have to be pro-universal healthcare, and they would
00:04:16.540have to have some eye on the environment and what's happening here. Right. And if they're not
00:04:20.760going to address those three things, I mean, you can say those three things and I get very excited
00:04:24.520and I'll probably have your back. Let's talk about the environment a little bit. That's not
00:04:29.380my wheelhouse. I'm not like an expert when it comes to people are starting to, they'll talk
00:04:35.320about carbon emissions and food production and whatever. I don't have all those gauges in my
00:04:39.120head. Here's my question. How do we make, how do we put environment in a serious way on the table
00:04:44.300given that every, depending on what office you're in, if you're in the house, it's two years,
00:04:49.280the Senate six, the president, the Oval Office, every four. How on earth do we put forward an
00:04:57.040agenda? Because it's going to cost us money. Let's rip off that bandaid right now. Nobody's
00:05:01.240saying it out loud, but that's the bottom line. Wouldn't you love a politician to say,
00:05:04.280it's going to cost us billions, 100%. There's no way around it. But how do we establish
00:05:09.780that kind of policy if I only get elected for two years? And no matter how much money I take
00:05:17.340from you. Nothing's going to happen in two years to fix the environment. And then my base is going
00:05:22.580to get mad because I've taken money and nothing's happened. How do we get around that, do you think?
00:05:28.780It's the same problem we have with infrastructure. How do things get built if you're only elected for
00:05:33.080two years when it takes a decade to build them? Maybe there's a way to tie it together so it's
00:05:38.020more appealing because these are projects that take 10, 20 years. These are ones that involve
00:05:43.020science. Maybe there's some way to have it be an ongoing thing. I really don't know the answer.
00:05:48.460It's a great question. And I think it's just so incredibly fundamental. And I think what
00:05:53.960Republicans rely on is that instant gratification, right? It's going to happen now. It's going to
00:05:58.300happen now. And they're tapping into not people necessarily, and I know people love to divide
00:06:04.780Republicans and Democrats like good versus evil, but not really like that. You're tapping into
00:06:09.860what happens now in your life. And that's very real to everybody. What's happening to me right
00:06:15.880now is very real. And if you can make my life better now, that has weight for everybody. And
00:06:23.140I think it's very hard for us to think outside of now. How do we appeal to that? How do we tie
00:06:30.540that into projects that take 10, 20, 50, 100 years? And they all do. All of the good, all of
00:06:37.700these significant things take that long to do? The only way I can foresee this happening
00:06:43.880is if there's projects, and I can't even imagine it right now, that cross those lines, that you
00:06:52.940say, listen, we need to build hospitals. We need to build, you know, that kind of infrastructure.
00:06:58.640We need to build some sort of regulation across the board so that we're always going in this
00:07:04.920direction but you're right i feel like everybody and it's happening in canada to some degree
00:07:10.640instead of getting more maybe this is the reason instead of getting more global because everything
00:07:17.060is and it's scary and it's big and it's unmanageable and it's uncontrollable and it's
00:07:22.820very for the most part anti-democratic because you can't vote for the world we're we're receding
00:07:28.560you right what do you mean well like as a voter um you you know this everybody in the united states
00:07:37.800is blaming joe biden for inflation every rational person understands that that's not his to shoulder
00:07:42.980but if joe biden or pierre trudeau oh sorry that's a Freudian slip justin trudeau or whoever
00:07:48.520was going to take this on they would have to admit the really dangerous reality that
00:07:54.300there is no national government on this planet, except for maybe North Korea, that has
00:08:03.340the ability to control its own economy. It doesn't exist. We're dependent on you. You're
00:08:12.000dependent on us. You're dependent on oil from this part. You're dependent on computer parts
00:08:16.580from here. None of it. We have this globalized system of economy. And when it all shuts down,
00:08:22.260it comes to a screeching halt because of a pandemic, which is also a global issue, we can't
00:08:26.380control that. We look for somebody to blame. And then our leaders don't say the one thing that they
00:08:33.160need to say, but they're scared to say, which is, I can't control it. Right? Or I don't know.
00:08:40.600I don't know. I can't. Could you imagine if a Democrat and Republican could sit in the same
00:08:46.180room and say, globalization, economic globalization is such an incredible force that we can't
00:12:31.020these are the things that are our soul.
00:12:33.180right? These are our heart. This is what we're tied to in a way. And honest to God,
00:12:39.300I think if we could elevate that, we've been in, we're similar ages, right? So we would have went
00:12:45.080through the time where the arts and humanities would have been big. And then all of a sudden,
00:12:48.960everybody and their brother was only supposed to care about science and computers. That was it.
00:12:54.340That was all you were supposed to care about because everything else was crap and you weren't0.98
00:12:58.020going to ever have a life if you're going to die porn alone, if you did the art, right?0.99
00:13:01.940And we went through that. And I feel as though there's this a little bit of a swell coming when it when it comes to the tie between art and activism and empowerment. What do you what do you think about that?
00:13:20.060it'd be nice if people understood that art could be used simply as empowerment and as therapy and
00:13:28.280as a means with which to find yourself and to find your voice and relax your body you know
00:13:33.800people are comfortable taking yoga or boxing lessons because they like what that feels like
00:13:40.540yeah they don't claim to want to be a professional boxer or a yogi but somehow you can't
00:13:48.220You can't do a play without people thinking you think you want to be Marilyn Monroe.
00:14:26.580And I think a lot of people with a lot of things to say are missing out on the opportunity because of that, because of the stigma that it has in society, because of the lack of money and funding that goes into it.
00:14:36.660And it's interesting because I think, I mean, it really does. And I'm not downplaying math and science. I'm going to have a bunch of comments that are going to be like, you need math and engineering. Okay, yeah, everybody. I get it. I'm not, you know, ignoring that. I'm not throwing that out the window.
00:14:55.940But what I am saying is maybe, just maybe, we should be focusing on people becoming more holistic.
00:16:45.760To stand in a place with your feet firmly planted on the ground and your arms outstretched, owning the space and making a long, loud sound.
00:16:55.340It's very therapeutic and people rarely get to do it, especially in front of others.0.93
00:17:00.060You were talking about that fear of, you know, making a fool of yourself.
00:17:03.600It's fun to live through that fear because then it goes away because you learn that.0.71
00:17:42.620pulling me aside and saying, Joanna, you got this. You just need to breathe a little bit more.
00:17:48.080I got you. If you drop a line, I'll pick it up. Don't worry. I all of a sudden felt what it was
00:17:53.760like, A, to be a student again, but B, and this is the most important thing, I think, to have
00:17:59.980the capacity to connect with other people to do something great that you're scared of.
00:18:06.220and to do it together as a team very similar to sports you weren't student teacher in that
00:18:13.120moment you were both castmates absolutely in the same play doing the same thing it's another
00:18:18.820interesting thing is that if you're looking on a stage and there's a kid on the stage you will
00:18:26.620always look at them it doesn't matter if it's Meryl Streep or Uta Hagen whoever is center stage
00:18:32.600If there is a child on stage, you will, your eye can't help but go to them because they're the only one who is looking around the theater and really seeing it.
00:19:18.160And this is something you're very good at.
00:19:20.040I don't know if you were born that way or you worked at it, maybe consciously or unconsciously.
00:19:23.380But that part of our brain that kind of reviews what we're about to say before we say it or reviews what we're about to feel before we feel it and kind of scans it to see if it's okay before it just lets it out.
00:19:36.760You have to spend years removing that and being allowed to just let it come out like a long, loud sound, whatever you're feeling.
00:19:43.280You can't have a second of hesitation between what you're thinking and feeling.
00:19:52.640And that's why, I mean, work, everybody asked me, what's the best part about teaching? And I said, learning every single time. It's easy. It's easy. And it's not just learning. I'm not learning more about history. I know more about those things. That's not what I'm talking about. Learning about life, learning how to be an authentic human being.
00:20:08.200And I think this is what, and I want to ask you about Buffy and your time on that and all the shows that you've been on and what your experience is, what you've drawn, what was the good, what was the bad, what was the amazing, but I think we're all in desperate search of authenticity.
00:20:22.380authenticity and i think the dangerous thing is and what we've seen in politics where i see the
00:20:27.100draws or i see the ties in the absence of authenticity we will settle for what seems like
00:20:35.620um just sort of painful truths you know what i mean like these people that seem like they have
00:20:43.240no filter we think that's authentic when it's not it's 100 manufactured do you understand what i
00:20:50.360mean by that? Like, well, look at Donald Trump for a second. I remember reading his tweets when
00:20:55.900he was allowed, you know, to publicly speak and, um, all those spelling errors and grammatical
00:21:02.720errors. And I remember at some point thinking, I think somebody's doing that on purpose. Don't get
00:21:09.200me wrong. I don't think he's a genius by any stretch. Do I think he can make a grammatical
00:21:12.640mistake? Sure, I do. But, but isn't there a play? Isn't there a political play at making you seem
00:21:23.400like a man of the people if you don't know the difference between you're, you're, and you are?
00:21:29.260Of course there is. There's a play there, right? The same way there's a play where it's more
00:21:34.260exciting to believe the hit song came from the comment section of somebody's TikTok as opposed
00:21:39.160to manufactured in a studio somewhere in an ar in our meeting room it's much better to believe that
00:21:45.000and it's possible it's all possible so we'll just fill in the blanks ourselves and i think you're
00:21:50.760right i think with an absence of authenticity we'll just fill it in ourselves and hope for the
00:21:55.320best because we want to believe you know i think it i think that is what we are in desperate need
00:22:01.400of um i don't know if the political system is set up to allow for it but but i think we are in
00:22:07.080desperate need of it. So you've had, you know, obviously you're having a very long,
00:22:13.360robust acting career. What made you jump into that circle?
00:22:17.780I was an unhappy kid who wanted to express himself and live close enough to New York City
00:22:26.820where I felt like it was possible. I was born in the Bronx and then raised in Long Island.
00:22:31.240And like you were talking about earlier, there's pockets of, you know, Long Island is a very
00:22:35.760conservative very rigid post-war levittown housing everything's supposed to look the same and feel
00:22:41.220the same there's an overabundance of serial killers and artists that come from long island
00:22:46.780that should be a shirt i believe it should i would i would wear it i like it because that kind of
00:22:55.200yeah no long island serial killers and pop stars you could also replace it with orlando
00:23:01.240They have that in common, but there's something to be said for, you know, people that live
00:23:07.240half an hour from the greatest city in the world, arguably, and never go.
00:23:13.720If you, um, if you're from Long Island and you buy a ticket to a Broadway show, you can
00:23:18.700ride on the Long Island railroad for free because no one does it.
00:23:27.520They don't go to see Broadway shows like that.0.99
00:23:29.460Most of them don't. They stay right where they are. And it can kind of breed this kind of discontent that I think Lou Reed also felt, I would hope, where you just look around and you're so close to just absolute acceptance and love and the greatest art and food and people you can imagine.
00:23:45.960And everyone here is very rigid and just looking at each other and keeping to themselves and breeding this kind of paranoia and this very – all the worst aspects of capitalism.
00:23:55.700And culturally, there's just no growth happening.
00:23:58.420So as soon as I learned I could get to the city and kind of reinvent myself, that was what I was about.
00:26:33.420was look that is insane well look i'm terrified all of a sudden as a teacher right now i'm starting
00:26:40.700to sweat a little bit i'm like have i humiliated anybody like but that is that is how powerful
00:26:46.780we talk about education but that's how powerful and and significant those hallways can be you
00:26:53.820know what i mean my parents were both new york city school teachers and they used to commute
00:26:59.100from Long Island every day. And this was all we talked about at the dinner table was
00:27:04.160how poorly they were being treated, how little funding they were getting, how difficult everything
00:27:10.240was. My father's school tried to put on a play, but they had no music department. So me and my
00:27:15.820brothers were the pit band for the musical. We went into Queens because they had no, anyone that
00:27:21.600played an instrument in the school was now a part of this band but the
00:27:26.680i lost my train of thought i'm sorry that's okay we were talking about yeah you were saying like
00:27:34.120your parents were talking about how hard it was to be teachers and i was just saying like those
00:27:39.220hallways are what make or break kids right and my father used to always say that to keep in mind
00:27:44.000a policeman doesn't have the right to come into a your school and go through a kid's locker but
00:27:49.260the principal does. These teachers and principals are given complete authority over when this child
00:27:54.980is allowed to go to the bathroom, who they're allowed to talk to, when they're allowed to eat,
00:27:58.320what they're allowed to eat. They're allowed to confiscate anything they have. They can do things
00:28:02.060that cops can't do. So that relationship, when your only relationship is a fractured one at home
00:28:07.120to begin with, and then this person, you're right. It's a lot of power in that teacher's hands to do
00:28:13.820a lot of good or a lot of bad that I feel like a lot of people don't even, they're not even aware
00:28:17.400of it. They're not even aware of the power they have in their hands. Well, 100% because you got
00:28:22.120to think like just because you're a teacher doesn't mean you're not broken. Just because
00:28:26.560you're a teacher doesn't mean you haven't perfected yourself as a person or gone to therapy
00:28:30.440and figured it out and done all of those, you know, the significant things. And then all of a
00:28:36.480sudden for 20, 25 years, you're given classroom after classroom of kids that you are going to
00:28:44.020have the opportunity to be either the best thing in the day or the worst thing in their day.
00:28:49.700And when you don't know, it's just like anybody in a relationship. Sometimes we pass on,
00:28:55.160you know, we replicate bad behavior because we haven't fixed it in ourselves. We don't know
00:28:59.660we're doing it. We're not trying to be that person. We're not trying to damage anybody,
00:29:03.520but we do it nonetheless, right? But as a teacher, you get 30 kids every hour
00:29:10.700to, to play that out. I often say that, you know, I'm glad I, I mean, I love my education. I, I,
00:29:17.920I would go to school forever, but I'm pretty sure I should have become like, I should have had a lot
00:29:22.220more psychological training. I should have had a lot more of that training because anybody can
00:29:28.340read a history book, but the part about teaching that is scary and great all at the same time is
00:29:34.860how do I get that kid to care? How do I get that kid to feel powerful enough to take a chance to
00:29:42.040read the book, to give an idea and to feel stronger because of it? That's psychology.
00:29:47.740That's something else, right? Not only does it sound so hard, but how do you do that when you're
00:29:55.140given 40 minutes and 30 kids at a time? It's pretty much impossible. It is. It is. Those
00:30:02.680numbers don't work right i mean and i i work i teach at a private school which i you know i talk
00:30:07.820about a lot because people ask you know how do you do all these things well i'll tell you how
00:30:11.400i don't have 40 kids that you know i don't have 30 kids i have much smaller class sizes and having
00:30:17.560much smaller class sizes allows me to do two things number one get through the material which
00:30:22.040is important and most class never get through the material but that's that's kind of a distant
00:30:27.120important too, I actually see the kid. I actually see the individual. I see maybe what they need.
00:30:37.060I see maybe when their day isn't good. I see, and I'm not talking, I'm not the easiest teacher in
00:30:42.080the world. I haven't patted everybody and I'm not all sunshines and roses, but when you have
00:30:50.360the ability to connect with kids and to notice when their behavior changes, and then to pick up
00:30:55.260phone and make that call and make that adjustment that's a whole world right there yeah and that's
00:31:00.940joel rifkin god help you but joel rifkin i have no idea i don't know much about his childhood
00:31:08.460but you have these individuals maybe not that extreme but you have these individuals
00:31:14.860that can so easily be broken or built by a sentence
00:31:21.100when they're in grade five, right? When I talk to kids that really, and adults that really hate
00:31:29.820school, you know, I always feel the need to try to like convince them that they should have loved
00:31:34.340school. They'll all go back to when I was in grade three, when I, my grade five gym teacher,
00:31:42.020and I'm like, this, this is what, as a 40 year old person, this is still,
00:31:47.420that's a lot of power but it's everywhere i hear the same thing about therapists and
00:31:54.180psychiatrists you have one bad experience with an ill-informed therapist and you go i don't like
00:32:00.020therapy yeah i believe in method acting there are plenty of bad acting teachers out there you meet
00:32:04.600with one who takes themselves too seriously who doesn't want you to win who wants something else
00:32:09.740and you go i don't like method acting i don't like acting classes because of those one experiences
00:32:14.880I don't like teachers. I don't like that entire subject because I didn't like the teacher.
00:32:19.400It's a huge power. And it's tough to to have a bad experience like that and want to try again.
00:32:25.480Yeah, absolutely. So after your Spanish teacher, which we've named a few times, I hope she feels
00:32:31.140really, you know, a lot of she should be looking internally at herself right about now. After that,
00:32:36.720how do you so you have a person like that, but it sounds like you had two parents that were probably
00:32:41.560like you know incredibly supportive was that the balance for you they were they were the ones who
00:32:47.680took me to the city every sunday to see a broadway show to go to chinatown they were the ones who
00:32:52.480spent whatever money they had on just culture on just exposing us to whatever they could
00:32:57.760and it was very effective and as soon as i fell in love with that i just didn't want to stop
00:33:03.540and i started taking classes when i was really young and they supported it right and so as you
00:33:09.380progressed and you started getting all these gigs what was what was the first gig you got that that
00:33:15.160I know you had a lot of different little ones but what are the like when you were young what's the
00:33:19.700first what's if I said give me the one memory what is it of and why do you think it shoved in there
00:33:25.660so deep can I do two yeah because they came simultaneously and I'm working on duality anyway
00:33:33.240The first one was the first film I did was called Leon the Professional, and it was with Gary Oldman and Jean Reno and Natalie Portman.
00:33:41.980And I had the smallest role in the film, but the director, Luc Besson, made me feel like I had the biggest role in the film.
00:33:50.360He told me a backstory for my character that no one knows about, but made me feel and allowed me to just express myself in all of these ways.
00:33:59.400And it was the first time I got to take those things I'd done in class and just apply them there and also see how silly I looked in my chair doing my warm up in front of people and what I should keep to myself and what I could share and seeing how Gary Oldman would kind of turn it on and turn it off.
00:34:16.320it was still maybe to this day one of the best experience i ever had on a film set
00:34:20.940and the other was a pilot i did for a nickelodeon show called the mystery files of shelby woo and
00:34:27.240we shot it in orlando in a theme park and it was just everything i'd wanted at that time all at
00:34:34.380once i felt very free i felt um i became best friends with my castmates i didn't have to go
00:34:39.680to school anymore i was going to get tutored now we got picked up it became a series i was going
00:34:44.180to live in this theme park my brother was going to become my guardian and everything was all right
00:34:49.520that was I saw how um acting and art can be used to just um um can be very fulfilling yeah well I
00:35:00.100I feel like that your first director what was his name again Luc Besson I feel like he's a teacher
00:35:05.660I feel like all great directors are teachers and they look and they can figure out who needs what
00:35:13.340on their set in order to get the best possible thing out of amazing people you know i never
00:35:20.680thought of it like that but i think you're exactly right i think that's what it is he knew what i
00:35:25.520needed and he probably knew who needed to be left alone and not talk to and i think he saw that in
00:35:31.240me and you're absolutely right you're absolutely right it's it's that quality of wanting the person
00:35:37.980to win some people want to impart their wisdom more than they want you to win some people believe
00:35:44.300in a a a strict discipline and they need that to be right rather than just whatever's right for you
00:35:53.020and the truth is wow that wouldn't we love to apply that to the political system wouldn't we
00:36:00.060love wouldn't we love to apply that how do how do the most people win what do they need what do they
00:36:07.420Rather than, this is the way I've always done it,
00:36:10.320this is the way my mom and my dad worked my house,
00:36:32.880And if we can fill a country with those people,
00:36:37.420we don't need to worry about anything else. Right? That's it. That's all. I mean, and that's why
00:36:45.260when I talk about education, I know you're passionate about education. When I talk about
00:36:48.940education, I'm like, pour money. Pour it. You should have waves of money coming at the educational
00:36:56.760system. Waves of money. And you want to know what else? Expect more from teachers. Have us go to
00:37:01.660school longer, have us get more degrees, have us, but then waves of money. So this is the place in
00:37:07.900which we build those kinds of minds. Cause if we do that, guess what? Our criminal justice system
00:37:14.420takes care of itself. Our, our healthcare system ends up taking care of itself. Our unemployment
00:37:22.680rates, our domestic violent rates, our drug addiction, our alcoholism, they all take care
00:37:28.500themselves shockingly when we make room to build you know amazing fulfilled empowered people
00:37:38.180this isn't a hypothesis or an experiment like these these are proven facts that's it that if
00:37:42.980you put money in that direction that's the result you get what drove my parents out of teaching was
00:37:47.940the um forced curriculum was the standardized tests that went across the board and that became
00:37:54.900all they cared about was not that the kids learned, but that they learned a specific way,
00:38:00.100and that they could pass this specific test that has not been proven to make people smarter.
00:38:06.580Well, and it's a silly thing. I like to define the difference, and I constantly define the
00:38:11.780difference between what is being smart and what is being intelligent. And sometimes I look at
00:38:17.380smart as being able to see the rules before you, conform to the rules, do what you got to do in
00:38:24.020that setting in order to succeed right that's smart but intelligent intelligent is being able
00:38:31.620to a have a lot of transferable knowledge and and ideas being able to step back from the system
00:38:37.700look at it as a whole and go this could be better this could be better i'm going to change this
00:38:42.820because i can get to this result that kind of creativity is an intelligence that unfortunately
00:38:49.540in a lot of school systems, we just stifle again and again and again and again. And we do it with
00:38:57.100these standardized tests, which are hilarious, but it gives the illusion to the masses that we're
00:39:02.940good at our jobs. You know, well, my class got 90 on this test and everybody, what a great teacher.
00:39:10.940But meanwhile, those kids can't step into the world and operate in a variety of circumstances
00:39:19.260with many people and many different sort of changing realities because they start to crumble
00:39:24.360because they like the structure. Right? I think that all of those things are just like
00:39:33.980so problematic and so upsetting that we keep imposing all of that. And that's the reason
00:39:43.020why we get rid of the arts, in my opinion, is because it builds intelligent kids.
00:39:48.320I wished when you had asked me earlier about those three things I was looking for in a candidate, I went to specific issues.
00:39:54.800I wished I had said empathy as the number one thing because it's what I was thinking, but it wasn't an issue.
00:39:59.500And when you talked about the difference between smart and intelligent, I feel like empathy is that difference, that one factor there that if you can – and even as you were describing intelligence, it's the ability to see a situation and relate to it and empathize with it and put yourself in it or there.
00:40:17.100you know shoes and then work from there as opposed to like you were saying well this is what we did
00:40:22.180in my house so that's what we're going to do here and that kind of empathy um is only a product of
00:40:28.580i don't think like i think kids have it naturally to be honest with you but i i think that empathy
00:40:33.600really comes from education and i don't just when i talk about education i'm also not just talking
00:40:38.200about sit down and read this book sit down in school i'm talking about the kind of education
00:40:43.020you got when every Sunday you took the train into New York. The kind of education that people get
00:40:48.680when they put themselves in situations with different people, different cultures, different
00:40:52.900backgrounds, different belief systems, and embed themselves and get to know those people.
00:40:58.820That kind of diversification, when I talk about diversity, it's not because I just want all of
00:41:04.700us to hold hands and sing around a campfire. It's because I genuinely believe that the more
00:41:10.380the diverse the ideas and the opinions in a room the better conclusion you will come to
00:41:16.440and if you never put yourself in that room you never get any smarter right yeah yeah
00:41:24.200um i constantly want to be around people i disagree with sometimes because um and even
00:41:32.180vehemently disagree with the conversations are better what's that the conversations are better
00:41:37.020I found. Well, I mean, you need an intelligent person sitting on the other side, even if they
00:41:42.040be admitted. I mean, there's basic building blocks that I'm not willing to concede, right? Like
00:41:47.560sitting in the same room with somebody who is horrifically homophobic or transphobic or racist,0.91
00:41:54.080I don't know how far I'm getting with you. But sitting with somebody, let's say, that has grown0.77
00:41:59.900up, I don't know the demographic of Long Island, but let's say has grown up in a small Midwestern
00:42:06.120town, predominantly white, predominantly Christian, predominantly straight. That person just doesn't
00:42:13.300know yet. I'm fascinated by that person. I'm fascinated by the person who hasn't stepped out
00:42:21.160of that area, stepped out of that town. Now, could they have some stereotypical beliefs?
00:42:28.520100% they will. Of course they will. But that's just because they haven't experienced yet.
00:42:33.640right and i'm all about that's how you change everybody
00:42:38.340you it it allows you to love them because it's not their fault if they haven't been exposed to
00:42:44.340anything there you go and it allows you to have those conversations like sometimes i look at the
00:42:49.960election results and i just want to go to every small town in those red states i swear to god
00:42:54.720every small town and sit in a coffee shop for eight hours a day and talk to every single person
00:43:01.620that walks in about life as I see it, looking the way I do, because I'm pretty sure, I'm not sure
00:43:06.900how many people walk into town looking like that, you know, and give them that and say, listen,
00:43:13.200there's so much more out there. Have you thought of this? Because I don't think, I'm an optimist,
00:43:19.060first of all, but I don't think people are inherently horrible. I think sometimes
00:43:23.360our ignorance, and I don't mean stupidity, I just mean not knowing, our ignorance0.99
00:43:28.100allows us to be manipulated by certain people to lead us down a road of actually hating0.99
00:43:34.880and it's just the ignorance if we get rid of that that road never gets taken
00:43:40.360it's tough if i wish you know when when you you love your parents and your parents believe
00:43:49.780something it can almost be impossible to believe that they're evil or that they believe in
00:43:55.560something that's promoting evil or that they would or could hate you. And so many of the
00:44:01.260alternatives are just so much easier or feel so much more appealing than having to fight against
00:44:06.120that for your whole life. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to expect people to look at
00:44:13.240an organized religion that they're a part of that all they equate with it was going with their
00:44:18.320mother on Sunday and having this warm, nice feeling and being close to their mother. And
00:44:22.560And when I'm trying to explain to them just about simple things that maybe this organized religion is doing that is not within its own people's best interest, I sound like I don't want you and your mother to – I'm taking that Sunday away from you.
00:44:37.160I sound like I am just spoiling this beautiful thing.
00:44:41.520You talk about Buffy, and the most common thing I hear from people is, oh, I used to watch this on this time with these group of people, and it takes me back to them whenever I watch it, and we're closer because of it, and I wouldn't ever want anything to take that away from people. Does that make sense?
00:45:02.580Yeah. Nostalgia is the most powerful and devastating force, period. Right? I did a TikTok. I found, you know, those big gumballs you used to get in the sleeve? They're different colors, like they're rainbow and they're giant gumballs. I don't know. It's old school candy. I bought that one time and I sat in my car and I ate one and I almost broke a tooth.
00:45:26.760And I thought to myself, this gum right here, very, very metaphoric, right? We remember things a certain way when we were kids. First of all, because we had no idea of life, number one. And number two, it was our first experience with that. And so we're very limited and narrow in what we're experiencing.
00:45:46.880So when you got that gumball, especially out of those gumball machines, which, by the way, might be the center of COVID, I'm not too sure. No one's looked into that. But when you got that gumball out of the machine and you chewed it for five seconds and then got a sore jaw and had to spit it out and ask your mom for another quarter, it was the best, right?
00:46:03.300And as an adult, I re-bought that. I popped it in my mouth. I went, oh my God, what? And I spit it out. I'm like, did I break something? Did, is everything in my, and I, and I had this kind of epiphany where, don't get me wrong. I love my childhood. I love all the shows that go with it and all of those things.
00:46:22.900But I came to the conclusion that it's nostalgia, and heaven forbid, an entire political campaign was based on it.
00:46:31.080Nostalgia is a very powerful thing to make us feel good, and it's a very powerful thing to weaponize if we want to, right?
00:46:42.160According to sense memory and to method acting, these sensory experiences are the tools we use to feel everything.
00:46:52.740That if you wanted to cry, you wouldn't think about the death that happened.
00:47:01.540You would simply explore sensorily when you found out the funeral.
00:47:37.820And who can say that we're not time traveling in those moments, if it was the taste of that jawbreaker that that sent you back to your mother. And if you didn't break a tooth, if it was just, oh, there it is, she'd be there with you, you two would be sharing this time, and you would be young and old, and she would be with you. And also, back then, and it all becomes one.
00:48:00.920I it never even occurred to me until you said it to weaponize that sort of thing but my god how
00:48:09.140powerful that would be I mean that's the power you have with that and that is the power that I
00:48:13.880guess you're right a lot of these campaigns are going for when they're saying you're right music
00:48:18.220was best when you were 18 yep look you just said something that I mean I can't I got shivers when
00:48:24.580you said, you can't think it. You have to feel it. Shoot. I wish is what I wish for the world
00:48:32.260that they would stop thinking it and start feeling it. Because when you said that, so I did this
00:48:37.920play, right. And people kept telling me that's what I'm supposed to do. I'm like, I don't
00:48:41.800understand you. You keep saying these words. I don't, you know, people were very much my,
00:48:47.300my director and my friend is very much that kind of method actually like Joanna, listen,
00:48:51.040You need to feel what it was then. You need to explore that feeling you had, not the instance. But in my sort of logical kind of head, it was all about thought and just sort of, okay, well, this happened, then this happened, then this happened, but I don't feel sad. I can't feel sad. How do I get?
00:49:09.960And I honestly think that that's what the artistic world, whether they're poets or actors or musicians or whatever, you are able to feel it, which is why we are so drawn to you, why we are so empowered and inspired by you.
00:49:34.460And I also think, unfortunately for you guys, why you carry such a heavy weight.
00:49:42.100A lot of really great artists carry such a heavy weight because you always feel it.
00:59:48.800And when you were going into it, so you read first, like you were in it, you know, lightly, let's say lightly earlier on.
00:59:54.800But when you came back as the trio, I mean, when you were reading it, did you, could you recognize the trajectory of this character and the kind of impact it was going to have?
01:01:10.420And I would recognize that at some point with all human beings,
01:01:13.700there just becomes a point of no turning back.0.88
01:01:16.680And once you've accepted that you are a monster and you are dangerous and you
01:01:21.020do need to be dealt with because you can see it in, in there's a,0.96
01:01:27.060I think there's a switch that happens,
01:01:28.400whether it's either drugs or it's just mental illness or whatever it is,
01:01:31.140but there can become a point where if it's untreated,
01:01:33.360I think there is no coming back because the best definition of depression I ever heard was
01:01:40.740it's not seeing options for yourself. And that feels very real to me because there's always
01:01:46.240options. They're always there. You just don't see them. And that's what depression is. And there
01:01:53.200becomes a point. I've done it when I lived downtown and the homeless people are a part
01:02:01.520of your life and you're a part of theirs and you're living together and you're helping each
01:02:04.540other and with some people you're like this is going to work and with other people you're like
01:02:08.980I don't know what I can do I don't know there's just maybe it's medication maybe it's something
01:02:14.080that I don't know about yet but I can't get you to understand what's happening here I hope that
01:02:19.400doesn't sound um cold or unsympathetic no I think that no no it doesn't sound hopeless because what
01:02:26.240you're saying is that it's just like, and it's also interesting because you being the person
01:02:33.580you are and making the connections you do, when you think about the people that you have helped,
01:02:38.640or you think about the connection you have made, it's kind of interesting. You go directly to the
01:02:43.220people you couldn't help. Again, that's very teacher of you, right? You just remember the
01:02:48.300places where it didn't work. Meanwhile, you're not counting all the places that what you did
01:02:53.340made the world of difference. And what we need on this planet is a different person to talk to that
01:02:59.500other person that you couldn't connect to for whatever reason. Because I do believe there's
01:03:05.000always something that can be said, something that can connect, something that can break through a
01:03:10.820wall. And I don't always know it with every single person, but somebody else might. Right?
01:03:16.000It's interesting you say that. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead.
01:03:18.760All my experiences downtown were with a pit bull. And it's the reason I became so aware because I was a new pit bull owner and I didn't want the dog to be scared of the homeless and I didn't want the homeless to be scared of the dog. And sometimes situations would get hairy where someone would just be yelling at us or screaming at us or following us and not understanding that I'm scared for you right now because this is a new pit bull.
01:03:43.980And I was told she's aggressive and had aggression done to her.
01:03:47.920And I'm really scared about what's going to happen here.
01:04:21.780But no matter what a homeless person is doing, if you simply address them and hand them a cigarette, they feel so grateful and will go away.
01:04:30.960I would carry around cigarettes even when I stopped smoking because there was no situation that couldn't immediately be ended with, here you go.
01:04:37.940Because that is a lot more than a cigarette.
01:04:40.200It is now something they can sell outside at 2 o'clock in the morning for whatever they want.
01:04:46.540It is maybe something they just want to smoke and feel like a human being.
01:04:49.400Whatever it is, this acknowledgment of me seeing you and me handing you something and you not exiting this interaction negatively, you exiting it ahead, you do deserve it because you've had a rough night no matter who you are.
01:05:32.760First of all, my students were amazing. But second of all, when we listened to their stories and they each sort of told us different stories. And then the main guy, the guy that ran the whole thing, he told us his story and he spoke as though he has a stroke. So he spoke with a bit of a slur and it took him a little bit longer. And he described why that happened. It was due to a drug overdose and he was taking drugs because he was being abused at home. It's just a horrible story.
01:06:02.760Um, and he talked about being homeless and what he did and who, who saved him, who gave
01:08:54.880I had done an episode as Warren, and then they asked me to come back as a part of the trio.
01:09:01.920And in that in-between time, I would run into people that would come up to me that knew exactly who I was just from that one episode and knew more about what I was going to do when I was coming back than I did.
01:09:14.420because they knew who because they knew because they knew they knew who I was gonna be in the
01:09:20.520trio with who was playing it I didn't know that they knew that uh Andrew was Tucker's cousin or
01:09:26.880his brother from his brother come on sorry they and I was like oh I this is yeah this is you know
01:09:35.640but I noticed when you know which side of the stage Dylan's coming on from whether he's on his
01:09:42.500bus where this guitar player changed his hat and you know all that stuff so i appreciate it i love
01:09:47.820it i love that um excitement and passion and attention to detail because it does matter but
01:09:53.120that's when i learned and it stayed you know for a long time yeah kind of there are no passive fans
01:09:59.260of that show no i appreciate it and i think that's why it was always on the verge of cancellation
01:10:03.920because those networks are just looking at numbers and they weren't as savvy about engagement back
01:10:08.540then. I think they didn't realize maybe the numbers weren't as high as some of these procedural
01:10:12.600cop shows. But nobody knows the name of the lead on this procedural cop show. They just know it's
01:10:18.160the cop. But this show, they know that I misspoke and said Tucker's cousin instead of Tucker's
01:10:24.640brother. Because we're crazy. Because that's true. No, because it's true. If you said a song was in
01:10:29.260A flat and it was an A, I'd correct you. There we go. But I think that that's what's so, so
01:10:34.480powerful. And I want to ask you what you think about this, but I think, you know, you say that
01:10:38.740some cop show, well, there are shows that we put on every night because they don't impact us anyway.
01:10:45.860And they're enjoyable to watch while we eat dinner or talk to our spouse or clean our kitchen or
01:10:51.620whatever. And these standard stock shows are probably have super high ratings because they're
01:10:58.740good for everybody but they're not great for anybody whereas you have a show like Buffy
01:11:06.460which maybe didn't tap into by the way I think the the the title really put a crick in a lot
01:11:12.680of people wanting to watch it in the first place but you know you have people that when they bought
01:11:18.940into that show like I loved it but I've heard people say it saved me from depression it saved
01:11:27.680me from hurting myself. It gave me a sense of power. It gave me a sense of wellness. It gave
01:11:33.140me, and they go on. And I listen to those things. And I think the depth of that show is what
01:11:42.300mattered. And you can't, you know, one Buffy fan compared to like a hundred, I'm not going to name
01:11:49.420another show because I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling, but a hundred fans of like the primetime
01:11:53.620eight o'clock show that's on CBS, they're not even in the same hemisphere. Not even in the
01:12:00.160same hemisphere. Why do you think people, it resonated so much?
01:12:08.440I think it did multiple things at the same time. And that's just rare in television. What you're
01:12:14.540talking about is shows that do one thing. We do a cop show. We do a comedy. We do a fantasy.
01:12:19.560i feel like um we're either looking maybe there's two kinds of entertainment or two kinds of
01:12:28.500entertainment viewers we're either looking for something that will take us as far away from
01:12:33.620ourselves as possible so we can completely escape and then we love it and we go thank you that was
01:12:37.780beautiful or we look for ourselves reflected back and we go yes that's me that's beautiful and when
01:12:44.880one fan gets the other they don't enjoy it when i'm looking for escapism and i just see myself
01:12:49.120shaving, I'm like, I want my money back. But if I'm looking to feel validated, and I'm just getting
01:12:54.380some farcical fantasy, I feel like I don't I'm not connecting to any of this. This isn't for me,
01:12:59.660I feel more alone than when I started. But Buffy could do both. Buffy could give you true
01:13:04.760entertainment and fantasy, deeply grounded in reality. And it seemed the more fantastical
01:13:11.340the situation got the more grounded in depth and reality it was. And it used that to say a lot of
01:13:18.700very brave new things it could hide behind the fantastic element and sneak in some really really
01:13:26.380cutting social commentary using high school as a metaphor for life and using hell as i i could go
01:13:34.460on but you get what i'm saying high school yeah yeah no i i think and i think it's funny because
01:13:42.140we looking back on it i mean i i love the show i do i do um force my every class to watch it so
01:13:49.720that's enjoyable for them but um which episodes do you make them watch as many as i can i had a
01:13:55.900grade six class one year who wanted to start watching it because they knew i loved it it was
01:14:00.160a young class i don't ever teach that young and and i said well guys we can't watch this in class
01:14:05.380and they said oh that's okay can we we'll come in on certain nights and watch it and then we'll
01:14:09.360come in on weekends. Like, honest to God, they were like all in and they loved it. You know,
01:14:13.880the first year is very campy and whatever. Anyways, they just, they were all in. I had
01:14:19.52010 kids in that class. They loved all of it. And we would talk about issues in it. We would laugh
01:14:24.740about it. We would tell the episodes that we didn't like, that we didn't think were fun.
01:14:28.640And then I sent them all home for the summer. And I realized we'd gotten to season five,
01:14:36.180maybe, or four, and I realized they were all going to watch season six. And I went, uh-oh.
01:14:43.220Season six comes with a lot. I thought I needed to pick up the phone and say,
01:14:49.140um, okay, so we've been watching, they knew we were watching Buffy. I go, I don't know if you
01:14:53.140know much about the show, but season six gets a little adult. There's a little adult scenes with
01:14:58.500Spike, your stuff that goes on. I mean, there's some adult stuff that goes on. It gets pretty dark.
01:15:03.060And I had parents saying, Joanna, it's okay. We know what's coming. It's the best thing you've
01:15:11.100done because our kids are talking to us about issues they've never talked about before. And
01:15:17.540they're doing it under this auspice that is so powerful. And I sat back and I went,
01:15:26.180what a great mechanism for that. And I think it's also because we talked about it
01:15:32.380but they for the most part love it if i'm going to show an episode like a one-off i'll show
01:15:38.580probably any of the halloween ones because i love like you know fear itself probably one of my
01:15:45.740favorites you know the little tiny fear demon i like to show ones that that can have a you know
01:15:52.700you don't need to watch anything else you can just watch it um i often play season the the
01:15:59.500series finale because it's you know it's pretty awesome uh i don't think they i show hush because
01:16:07.700they love the scary guys but i don't think they get how awesome that episode really is on its own
01:16:14.040you know um and there will be a lot of people like i'm like you got to give it a go i'm like
01:16:20.460you're gonna watch season one but if you get through season two and you're not hooked first
01:16:25.020of all, I don't know if we can be friends, but second of all, you'll, you won't be hooked. You
01:16:29.320won't because you won't, you won't get it for whatever reason. You just, you won't connect to
01:16:33.420it. But I just, you know, and the more people that I speak to about it, whether it's fans,
01:16:41.420whether it's actors, whether it's production people, like when they look back on it and we
01:16:47.780can be critical. I love the fact that I can look back on Buffy and think, well, okay, issues about
01:16:53.700feminism in 1998 are very different than today. And some of them hold up and some of them don't.
01:17:02.380But what a cool conversation to still have, right? About the why, about what was hard to say in 1997.
01:17:12.840People always will need and deserve representation. And when you don't see yourself
01:17:17.020up on that screen ever, you feel very alone, very isolated. And I think Buffy allowed people to see
01:17:23.200themselves, people that had never seen themselves before or not presented in that way and go, yes,
01:17:29.140yes, that's me. Thank you. In so many different ways, in so many different ways. And then you've
01:17:34.040had this like onslaught. I mean, you know, Comic-Cons and fan expos and all of this stuff
01:17:39.320that kind of blew up after Buffy. And then you have all of this, you know, resurgence of people
01:17:47.600that will that will talk about it and that will apply it uft which is a university in toronto
01:17:53.280has a course on buffy did you know this it's actually a senior level course about buffy the
01:17:59.600vampire slayer and its feminist and epistemological themes as applied to pop culture and feminist
01:18:06.480ideology absolutely i'm thinking i should just go back to school so i can take it but that sounds
01:18:11.460amazing right because I think it draws upon it lets us have hard discussions about things that
01:18:19.880are hard especially for kids that sometimes we don't have a conduit to get into you understand
01:18:29.260what I mean like I do and I think that's what it allows you know you you had whatever metaphor
01:18:39.000was going on, you know, even simplistic one-off Buffys where like the girl that nobody talked to
01:18:44.620actually became invisible. Just something simple like that. That's not this grand, you know, leap
01:18:50.260of anything. But then it allowed kids to say, what does it feel like to not feel like people around
01:18:57.040you see you? And I had big discussions with 12-year-olds, with 15-year-olds about those
01:19:03.920themes that I don't see happening to be honest I don't know another show where it happens on that
01:19:10.540level no that doesn't seem to have its heart in that place I haven't found it so I think you know
01:19:19.160looking at and I mean unfortunately you know you got you got the character that everybody really
01:19:24.780really hates so that's a hard burden to carry but to be able to do that character as well as you did
01:19:32.640is such, I don't think there was another important role, a singular important role,
01:19:41.140you know, outside of Buffy herself that mirrored so clearly and painfully what needed to be mirrored.
01:19:55.220I hope, I don't, I don't know how to respond to that.
01:19:57.520don't you see it that way a little bit or are you like oh wait a bit that's way that's way too much
01:20:04.100like what you're like i mean it certain shows predicted things you know there are certain
01:20:13.760shows that predicted there would be a pandemic or that pointed out that we were not equipped
01:20:18.600to deal with uh of a virus if it were to happen there are certain shows that
01:20:23.500point out that we're not equipped to deal with a cyber attack that if someone were to really
01:20:28.360really our government we do not have the kind of things in place and and the kind of warfare that
01:20:34.360can be done using those methods and those tools and i think buffy the vampire slayer really um
01:20:40.560predicted the incel and was a warning through warren about what's going to happen if these
01:20:48.000people are left untreated or left to their own devices. And it was spot on. And I'm honored
01:20:54.240to be a part of that, to be a part of that warning and to help spread that message and
01:20:59.960raise awareness about that because it's true. And we need to acknowledge it and recognize it
01:21:08.720with the same kind of, um, strict empathy that we've been speaking of. Yeah. Where
01:21:16.240there's an effort to understand, you don't have to agree to understand, you know, I don't agree
01:21:22.160with Joe Rifkin, but I, no, I don't understand, but I, um, you know, it helps bring you closer
01:21:30.060to understanding. Absolutely. And I mean, it's, it's so funny you talk about that and we see
01:21:35.680what's going on and we circled right back around. I love it when that happens by accident, but we
01:21:40.820circle right back around to this division. And one of the biggest divisions, you hear people
01:21:47.080driving home today through guys like Jordan Peterson or Shapiro or Matt Walsh or, heaven
01:21:54.660forbid, Andrew Tate. You have these drives talking about alpha males and masculinity and what we've
01:22:02.700lost and what we need to build up and how did, and, and my mind goes, guys, did you not watch
01:22:09.900Buffy? Was nobody paying attention? What are we doing? But I don't, when I talk about it like
01:22:16.600that, I agree with you. I, a lot of people want to just drive those guys into the dirt, so to speak.
01:22:23.060I would like nothing more than to have a conversation because I think they're leading
01:22:26.280some people down a very, very dangerous road. And they're uplifting or highlighting or empowering
01:22:35.820the wrong ideals to take care of broken people. Does that make sense?
01:22:43.980It makes perfect sense. I also, at some point, I think it's okay to apply the term domestic0.99
01:22:50.780terrorist when you're a threat to those around you and society is is unfortunately
01:22:57.600blind to a lot of things and i don't appreciate um when men feel like things are suddenly moving
01:23:09.660unfairly against them when it's like it's been a certain way for a long time and maybe there's0.99
01:23:17.440going to be some growing pains or adjustment, but shut the fuck up and let this thing right itself0.99
01:23:22.780and get out of the way of progress. Because the fact that you now feel uncomfortable in whatever0.99
01:23:28.180public setting you feel uncomfortable is, let's call that collateral damage and just move on.
01:23:33.900Yeah. I think, and it's interesting because as they do it, it's really speaking of
01:23:41.900weaponizing nostalgia. And when we weaponize nostalgia, this idea of what once was,
01:23:49.800the funny part is we are never clearly depicting once was, what once was, are we? We're not clearly
01:23:58.740showing that image. We are pulling pieces of it from 1950, 1960, 1972, whatever era you want to
01:24:08.440pull what it was to be a man and a father and a husband. And we're negating all of the horrific
01:24:15.840things that went with that identity of that time. And we're just pulling the ones we want to pull.
01:24:23.740Yeah, of course. Not taking responsibility for any of the bad, only remembering the good and
01:24:29.940moving on. Yeah. And I think therein lies the problem. But I constantly try to take a step
01:24:37.280back. And I constantly try to understand. I mean, these, these men have hundreds of millions of
01:24:45.660people listening to them. Maybe that's a long shot. Millions anyway, tens of millions. And
01:24:51.900they're listening to somebody who is saying that they want to make them feel better and they want
01:24:59.460to make them feel empowered and they want to make them feel good. It's all good things. Those,
01:25:03.600those things all resonate right if i'm if i'm somebody lost i love how we're going to use
01:25:08.480rifkin through this whole thing but if i'm a rifkin like and and my spanish teacher is talking to me
01:25:15.760like that and this guy on a podcast you know is sitting there saying it's okay to feel how you're
01:25:23.760feeling don't let anybody don't don't let anybody under you don't need to feel bad about anything
01:25:30.480isn't that where i would rather if i was a young man isn't that where i'd rather exist i want to
01:25:37.460exist on that podcast i get that of course i'd rather go to the church that tells me i'm going
01:25:42.360to be rich that sounds great why would i want to hear any other message than that
01:25:47.360but my desperate you know draw i think it's so interesting considering you know where i'm on
01:25:55.620tiktok or on the podcast and all the things these amazing things that i've gotten to do
01:25:59.180And the market I still want to tap into, the people, market is a wrong word, are those
01:26:04.460men, those young boys, because, and I'm trying desperately to figure out how to do it, because
01:26:12.000they are just as good and empathetic and loving and amazing as the rest of this planet is.
01:33:10.680But if we could show them that there are other routes to sex and to love and to acceptance and to fighting loneliness, I believe they will take them if it's not too late.
01:39:23.260Why? See, this is why I'm such a big fan of you, because we think a lot of about a lot of similar topics, but I'm not disciplined or motivated or confident enough to take it to that next.
01:39:40.740So what are we going to do about it level that you bring everything to where I feel like, well, now I am not a worthy soldier because, Captain, I'm with you in the fight and I don't have the artillery with me.
01:40:08.060So that's my frustrating points are always, you and I have just discussed, like we have
01:40:14.740gone through, I don't even remember what all we went through, I'm going to have to rewatch
01:40:18.200it before I title this episode, but we have gone through this whole episode talking about
01:40:23.440so many different things and we've come up with, you know, solution after solution after
01:40:29.900solution including something as as seemingly easy and trivial as put dogs in prisons
01:40:40.460we we've seen it work why did you stop it from happening again we know what education needs
01:40:48.940why are we getting in the way of it what it's almost as though we have ideas we i mean we don't
01:40:56.540just have ideas. We have proven track records of, of reality. It's not a, it's not a pie in the sky
01:41:06.540dream. We know. Then the answer is going, sorry. And yet what do we do? Why don't we do it? The
01:41:13.180answer is- We go back to the first thing that you said, which is we have to bring everybody
01:41:16.060together because if we all worked as one, we're uncontrollable. You can't stop us. We can do
01:41:21.740whatever we want if we vote is one if we act as one if we step out as one if you bring people
01:41:27.100together we can have the change we want but asking a working person to also fight these changes
01:41:34.060against a broken system that is working against them while paying their bills and raising a
01:41:38.700family it's too much it's just too much and it's built that way obviously to keep it that way so
01:41:44.940that we don't have time to learn and to grow and to do those things the fact that if we really want
01:41:49.980to call ourselves a planet and the internet is not just free and readily available to everyone
01:41:54.460we're not a free society because you want to talk about doing something with yourself if you have
01:42:00.140access to those things you have a world of possibility in front of you but it all costs
01:42:05.420money and you can't ask people to do all that but if we all voted as one if we all took it you know
01:42:11.980one of these causes and made it the majority of people in america want what i want i don't meet
01:42:18.060them all but when you poll them they want we all want the same things we just can't vote that way
01:42:24.620we can't get it through that way or even if we do there's an electoral college there to mess it up
01:42:33.740sometimes i feel incompetent sometimes i sit down it's funny that you think i have these
01:42:41.500i go to those places but when i get to those places speaking of not feeling soldier enough
01:42:47.340I'm like, but, you know, and people will say, Joanna, why don't you run? And I say, oh my God, whose table would I sit at? Heaven help me. And I'm talking about Canada, right? So we have three major political parties, a couple of extra parties. I mean, whose table am I sitting at that I'm either not going to disagree with it wholeheartedly, or I'm going to piss off because I think they're being inauthentic and they're full of crap anyways.
01:43:09.720and I'm probably going to piss off the electorate because I'm going to say what they don't want to0.96
01:43:13.440hear, which is a very simple truth. You want something better. It's going to cost more money.
01:43:21.140That's it. It can't cost less money. It's going to cost more money. Are you in or are you? This
01:43:28.220is my first question. And I feel like I wouldn't get elected past the front door. My mom would
01:43:32.780vote for me, but that's about it. Everybody else would be like, what? She wants more money for me.
01:43:37.340get the hell out of here and i'd be sitting there going but why are we believing people
01:43:42.220that are promising you the moon and saying but don't worry you only have to pay five percent tax
01:43:49.020we need to take accountability for that we love to blame other people and then we go and vote
01:43:54.860like in ontario we've just we voted in a premiere basically because he gave people
01:44:01.500back 140 bucks in a license plate sticker fee what and then we're shocked when he has to cut
01:44:09.900health care because he just lost a billion dollars in tax revenue because i need the 130
01:44:15.900in my bank account anybody does i understand some people paycheck to paycheck i get it but
01:44:19.980that's not going to make or break the bank but real health care is and that's right well that's