Unlearn16: Class is in Session - The One Where I Talk to Ria Mae...And We Don't Take Out Clothes Of

00:00:00.000 classes in session and welcome to unlearn 16 classes in session today i can't even say my

00:00:08.480 own title today i'm so ria please i don't know why i look this tired i think and i and i just

00:00:15.820 realized i have deodorant on my shirt so that's nice i'm only going to film from here up though

00:00:19.480 it's fine welcome guys ria may is with me today all the way from halifax halifax nova scotia

00:00:28.460 the connection's great. The connection of Wi-Fi or our friendship connection?

00:00:35.380 Both, Ria. They're both very grounded. Good. I am so thankful that you came on today.

00:00:42.440 And it's been a long time since I've seen your face. We chat on text message a little bit.

00:00:48.520 And how is it out in Halifax? It's good. It's like, I want to say it's a slower pace than,

00:00:56.340 i'm from halifax first of all it's a beautiful little city it's it's like it's not a town it's

00:01:01.160 a legit city but it's a small city and uh i've been living in toronto for the past while so it's

00:01:08.920 it's definitely a change but uh i know toronto is probably everywhere slow right now so i can't

00:01:13.880 really toronto's well we're starting to bustle right our premiere is not necessarily the sharpest

00:01:19.940 tool in the shed so we're we're starting to bustle a little bit right um so how has music

00:01:28.140 been going out so everybody that knows ria is this amazing singer been doing it since you

00:01:32.920 released your first album in 2009 you just said yep yep yeah that's a long time ago it's yeah

00:01:40.420 it's more than a couple years that's that's a bit ago um how's it been going like musically

00:01:47.080 when we're all sort of trapped in our houses. I mean, I feel like it would be a good kind of

00:01:52.340 creative setting, but how has that felt? Or do you feel more isolated?

00:01:56.380 You know what? I felt like it should have been the perfect time to create. And when it first

00:02:01.560 happened, the first like 60 days, I went hard, locking myself in the room and putting so much

00:02:08.380 pressure on it. And then I just hit a wall. And then I had this series of like, I got super

00:02:14.560 depressed and then i was like i need a month off and then it was like oh god i haven't written

00:02:19.120 anything in two months like and then that messed with my it but it's i've and then i had like a

00:02:24.000 couple months where things were great now oh yeah everything's coming out and then i literally made

00:02:29.600 like a whole album and then only picked like two of the songs and deleted the rest and like i've

00:02:35.280 just i've been through it anyway so it's like i thought in my head if you told me you're gonna

00:02:39.280 have 18 months in your house i would have been like oh my god i'm gonna be like putting out all

00:02:44.960 this content all these all this music but like it was just not like that i have a little kid too

00:02:50.560 like it's weird it's so different for people that beautiful little boy beautiful little boy and like

00:02:56.160 you know so it's i don't know i'm at a good place now where i'm like i've got to spend a lot of time

00:03:01.520 with him right i finally do have most of my album completed but i just i spent a lot of time beating

00:03:07.600 myself up not being productive enough i just didn't realize how important it was to be like

00:03:12.480 productive like to my own self-esteem and i'm like right yeah gotta work through that yeah

00:03:18.560 but it's so funny like obviously you're a musician and the rest of us had i think i had a very similar

00:03:24.560 experience and i'm a teacher so it's like we thought okay i can ride this out and then what

00:03:30.560 we don't realize because i think would you can describe yourself as an introvert i don't know

00:03:36.720 what i think i'm mostly an introvert yeah you know some tendencies of extroversion

00:03:43.120 well and then there's on stage so you i think you spend them all on stage and then you have to you

00:03:48.400 know but for me i think i'm an extrovert so i thought i was gonna you know have a really hard

00:03:54.400 time with it because i get a lot of energy from people but i i think i went through the same thing

00:03:59.440 it's kind of like this roller coaster of okay this is going to be good i'm going to be able to do all

00:04:03.040 this stuff i'm gonna have this all of this balance all of a sudden and and then all of this you know

00:04:08.720 you you kind of felt well i felt completely disconnected right and and any creativity or any

00:04:17.280 sort of any thoughts i had of doing stuff around the house or what i would get done i mean it all

00:04:23.040 went out the window yeah completely i think it's like i feel like if someone said it's going to be

00:04:29.920 22 months do it you know plan it and execute it but i think for me what it was is it was like is

00:04:37.200 it four months is it six months like is it well i just have this one month left with my family

00:04:43.360 oh no it's three months oh no it's oh god now i'm scared to get sick oh now i'm like i'm nervous

00:04:48.320 about the vaccine and then i'm like oh god now i'm nervous i'm not gonna have the vaccine it's

00:04:52.080 like your head it's you we keep forgetting we're in a literal pandemic i think too where it's like

00:04:58.000 if it was just someone being like stay home for 22 months i would have killed it i would have like 0.95

00:05:02.560 built a house had like 10 albums took a month long just no phones in the house moment like i

00:05:09.360 would have been like but it's you can't if i could go back in time i'd do it different but

00:05:15.680 well that's the that's the truth i guess when you're living through craziness you don't know

00:05:19.920 you're in crazy when they teach about this 20 years from now you know it's going to come off

00:05:24.320 very, very differently. All right. I want to start with how I met you. I don't know if you

00:05:28.740 remember this. I know you remember meeting me, but I was at the same event as Rhea. It was at

00:05:36.760 Fort York, I think. Is that where we were? Oh, yeah. Right. So I'm at the same event and she's

00:05:43.500 headlining a show and we're at a sound check. And I'm a big fan of craft services or whatever food

00:05:48.980 they have there. So any event I go to, whether any music kind of stuff that I'm behind the scenes,

00:05:55.200 I'm real excited to see the table of food. And normally artists stay the hell away from the

00:06:00.280 table of food because they, well, whatever. So I saw you and I didn't say hi or anything. I might

00:06:05.200 come up to you after, but I saw headlining the show. I'm a little starstruck back then, right?

00:06:11.320 You've released taking off, you know, take your clothes off. And I'm just like, you come in and

00:06:16.920 there I am eating at craft services. And this chick takes out two hard boiled eggs in a baggie 1.00

00:06:25.560 from her pocket. And I'm watching this and I'm like, is she, did she bring those from home?

00:06:35.480 You took them out, you sat down by yourself at like this big, huge, long table and you took

00:06:41.840 them out and you just ate two hard and I'm right at that moment I went I kind of love her I the

00:06:49.320 fact that she's this huge you know you're you're recording for Sony you're touring whatever and

00:06:56.460 this chick took the time to make herself two hard-boiled eggs and to crack them open and it's 0.98

00:07:03.400 like you didn't even eat in your trailer you're like I'm just gonna eat it at the craft service

00:07:06.400 table because that seems you know i have no recollection of that but that sounds exactly

00:07:14.400 what i would do it was hilarious it was so i didn't really introduce myself and then

00:07:19.360 you needed you're trying to get home quickly in toronto for anybody who's listening who's not

00:07:23.360 from toronto it can be annoying and she lived like five seconds away so i'm like i'll drive you it's

00:07:28.720 fine and you you seem genuinely like a a little bit like who is this chick trying to drive me home

00:07:34.480 and then b it was just i just felt like it was a natural thing to offer whereas you're kind of like

00:07:40.640 toronto people don't do that toronto people usually don't do that and you had this really

00:07:44.640 you always have like nice cars so i don't know anything about cars but i know a good car when

00:07:49.600 i see like i'm really always and i like when people like things so like when someone owns

00:07:53.440 a nice car it's obviously because they like cars right and they know something about it

00:07:58.320 so i just like you know if it's it was just an interesting point of like okay you're really nice

00:08:04.480 then you offered to drive me home in Toronto and you had this really cool car so I was like it

00:08:09.200 was a moment I was like okay okay could have gone either way really but we had I feel like that car

00:08:14.560 ride solidified a friendship I don't know how it happened it did because I got out of that car and

00:08:19.840 I went and told Sarah my wife I was like I think I made a new friend like so like yeah I feel like

00:08:28.400 it was just instantaneous instantaneous so back then we'll talk a little bit about that back then

00:08:36.400 you were with sony and uh and you know you were touring what what was the transition from from

00:08:43.840 sony to independent what was that like and then the transition for everybody now you are now signed

00:08:49.920 with warner and putting out a new album what was like what was that whole experience like i know

00:08:56.160 that you'll try to be nice talking about sony but what what was it really like because i i feel like

00:09:02.800 there's some freedom and constraints in both categories and it probably deals with your head

00:09:07.840 differently yeah and i mean i was independent and without a manager for a while like for my first

00:09:16.640 two releases and just did you know booked every show but had no at the beginning though right

00:09:23.280 beginning yeah like that makes sense yeah i had done two album cycles like that on my own i knew

00:09:29.040 exactly how it went and it's a lot of work and you know you sort of incrementally get a bit more

00:09:34.880 success you're playing to 10 people then 15 people then 22 people then you know i sold out my 100 cap

00:09:41.360 room in halifax then you move to the 200 cap like and i was like that's how it's gonna be it's gonna

00:09:46.640 be a slow climb and that's how it's gonna be and in about 10 15 years i'll be able to maybe sell

00:09:51.760 out a 500 cap and i'll be able to pay my bills and i'll have stability you know i had some very

00:09:57.600 reasonable goals um and then i had this song called i wrote close off and i asked classified

00:10:06.960 to produce it he classified as this uh big canadian rapper and he's actually from my hometown

00:10:13.040 and so he's like you know when someone famous lives in your hometown you you can get a bit

00:10:17.920 obsessed to be like, that's, that's my ticket. He needs to know who I am. Yeah. It really was my

00:10:22.860 ticket. And so he produced some of this for me. And then I said like, how do you get stuff on the

00:10:27.280 radio? And he was like, well, you need to hire a radio promoter. And I was like, okay, like I

00:10:31.840 Google it. Oh God, it's $4,000. Like I don't want to $1,000. I'm like, if I had $4,000, it'd be a

00:10:39.320 different, I'd be a different person. So I started doing like Airbnb of my staying in my girlfriend's

00:10:44.520 house but like airbnbing my house for 100 bucks a night oh my god to raise this money to raise

00:10:50.400 this money then i got it i got a grant for 2500 bucks which was huge at the time for me and still

00:10:56.920 is a huge amount and finally got about 4 000 bucks together and hired a radio promoter and i i did not

00:11:05.220 know how it worked at all and i always had reasonable and low hopes by this point because i

00:11:09.220 by this point as an artist you're like everyone tells you things are going to go well and never

00:11:12.600 does yeah yeah yeah i hired this tracker she got me on to two radio stations not pop ones

00:11:18.760 they were alternative stations one was in ottawa and one was in halifax right and the one in

00:11:23.560 halifax put me on i was on like twice a day which is huge for an independent artist and someone from

00:11:30.120 sony heard it on that radio station in those six weeks you only get six weeks for four thousand

00:11:34.680 bucks and then you're done and and it wasn't there's no a and r people on this side of the

00:11:39.880 the country. There's no one. It was literally a radio rep. So meaning like when Adele has a new 0.99

00:11:45.220 album, Sony from Toronto calls this radio rep and says, all right, Adele needs to go on, make it

00:11:51.280 work as your local station. He's not an A&R guy where he's looking for artists. And he just kept

00:11:56.180 hearing this song and being like, this person isn't signed. Like this is strange that this

00:11:59.800 song's on twice a day. And it's anyway, the whole Sony team flew out here. I had the whole album

00:12:07.360 written already except for about two songs like i didn't have thoughts on fire and i but i had

00:12:11.280 ooh love and i had a whole bunch of stuff and they wanted to come and see a show and and classified

00:12:17.600 luckily this is where he comes in and kind of saved me i i didn't have a great show then if

00:12:22.560 they had flown out and seen my show they might not have signed me i couldn't play with tracks

00:12:27.440 yet i was very confused about what my right he came into the email chain and said no she's not

00:12:33.440 doing a show come to my studio so they all came to the studio he bought them some drinks and we

00:12:39.680 listened to my music and we just talked and they gave me a record deal on the spot six months later

00:12:44.880 they re-release it with like they got the guy that mixed shake it off for taylor swift right it has

00:12:50.320 that vibe absolutely yeah yeah yeah it was it was like it doesn't have a lot of tracks in that song

00:12:54.960 but they needed it to pop so they mixed it a different way and re-released it six months later

00:13:00.400 it's like you know it that by the end of that year it had went gold and then a few months later

00:13:06.080 when platinum selling 4 000 copies a week this is this is before spotify right it was the year when

00:13:12.640 it was still itunes i was selling 4 000 every week on itunes give or take i i never hit 5 000 and

00:13:19.120 everyone below three forever and and then they just kept and then my shows went i skipped you

00:13:26.320 know i skipped the 500 mark in halifax all of a sudden i had to play to 2 000 people yeah well

00:13:33.280 anyway it was great it was everything i had hoped for and they gave me i really can't

00:13:37.600 talk bad about sony because they changed my life in that way yeah yeah well it kind of sounds like

00:13:43.840 classified really did like step up you know what i mean but it was your song somebody heard look

00:13:50.640 and i and i say this to everybody about everything i mean the music industry is a special kind of

00:13:56.160 animal but it's about everything it's about being in the right room at the right time with the right

00:14:00.720 people who go that's it you know what i mean and and when people i've talked to different people

00:14:06.960 about music and about acting and stuff like that i'm like i just would never say no i just

00:14:11.360 consistently say yes because you never know who's going to be sitting beside you at the dinner you

00:14:17.200 didn't want to go to or you know yeah that's exactly that yeah you have to be it's like you

00:14:23.920 have to make your art and sort of know your brand and then you just have to get out there yeah and

00:14:29.600 say yes to everything try to keep that like hopeful you know like the positive attitude of

00:14:35.200 like this is going to happen just when you know is it yeah is it tonight at this event is it right

00:14:41.600 you know and i just yeah i think that's a really important mindset to have you definitely i think

00:14:47.680 you said something super important though you said know your brand like know who you are and know

00:14:53.040 you're there it is in my opinion that's the biggest problem people have they're trying to

00:14:59.600 figure out what somebody wants what's cool what's in what's whatever you know like you never wrote

00:15:05.920 or maybe you did i don't think you wrote take your clothes off thinking taylor swift like you wrote

00:15:09.600 it because you wrote it and i think people and again this just applies to life when you know who

00:15:16.880 you are when you know where you stand when you know how you want to enter a room two things

00:15:22.960 happen number one people get that that authenticity because i don't think many people have it and then

00:15:28.960 they want to follow you and number two um you're leading it authentically so that when it actually

00:15:37.280 happens you're going to have real fans real following you know nothing's men you don't need

00:15:44.160 to perpetuate a lie or an identity or whatever you know it's yeah 100 and it is hard like

00:15:52.480 and i'm not immune to that like thing of oh maybe i should do this because this is kind of like

00:15:58.800 that i think that is the work of being an artist in many ways and i know when i was making that

00:16:03.600 album with clothes off and u love and all those kind of songs that people first heard from me

00:16:08.960 i really i used to take a bath every day i didn't have a shower in this house i had i only had a

00:16:13.280 bath and I'm quite tall I'm almost 5'10 and the bath was in like the roof was like this like you

00:16:19.960 couldn't it was really hard for me to get in the bath but I took a bath every day and I made my

00:16:25.800 bath like a an hour-long meditation of visualizing what it would look like to look like me and be on

00:16:33.220 the radio and have music videos because I loved hip-hop music I only saw like straight attractive

00:16:39.840 like you know traditionally attractive women like I remember being like I want to collaborate with

00:16:44.000 classified I want to collaborate with like hip-hop artists I remember people being like you want to

00:16:49.040 be a rap girl that's all we had that's all I had too and I was like no almost like imagine like

00:16:54.960 if like Missy Elliott was like like Ed Sheeran but like kind of like

00:17:00.660 wait a minute are you Ed Sheeran I don't know like I was just like trying to be pick out like

00:17:07.640 acoustic guitar yeah well like cool like missy elliot where she's not trying to like rub up on 0.94

00:17:13.060 guys right not that that's not cool i mean like cool for a queer person yeah for sure and then

00:17:19.060 all this stuff and like you have to get you have to meditate on what's the best version of me how

00:17:26.120 look at yourself doing it you don't have to be like how am i gonna you don't have to know how

00:17:29.520 to get there you just have to see yourself like yeah see myself in five years you know being

00:17:36.440 successful with a couple of kids living in different cities like you have to see it because

00:17:41.160 if you don't see it then it's like the whole thing will you might as well just give up almost

00:17:45.800 right look i think that's an incredibly important point because i think a lot of people who are

00:17:51.380 striving for whatever dream they have they need to they're trying to figure out step one step two

00:17:56.860 step three step four right which is overwhelming and impossible because like look at you you just

00:18:02.380 skipped over about 17 steps, all of a sudden playing to 2000 people. But if you visualize

00:18:07.140 the end result, then you'll take whatever step, whatever winding crazy path you need to take.

00:18:13.980 Yeah, you know? Yeah, exactly. And it's like, you have to be, what is that saying? I'm probably

00:18:18.740 going to get it wrong, but like, don't let your goals get in the way of your dreams or something.

00:18:25.400 It's like, when you have like this, oh, I have to play this and then do this and do this. And it's

00:18:29.520 like well remember though your dream is to be to create to be happy to be financially stable yeah

00:18:36.000 to do this and this and this like your your dream isn't to play at you know randy's music venue and

00:18:42.800 sell it out like that's not your dream you know your dream isn't to collaborate with randy i'm

00:18:47.320 sure it's a very lovely venue but my dream you know your dream isn't to like oh but i really

00:18:52.320 just want to play on you know i really just wanted to open for nickelback and my friend

00:18:57.080 go back and that's my that's not your dream your dream you know like that is a goal but it's not

00:19:03.320 the dream so yeah it's like having having the big picture and then like you said saying yes

00:19:07.640 to everything and just being like okay it's a little game of snakes and ladders like how do

00:19:11.160 i get out right yeah that's an amazing i've never even distinguished between the two the difference

00:19:16.680 between a goal and a dream i think that's a very cool distinction that the fact that goals are very

00:19:23.480 uh end result or very permanent or very concrete whereas a dream is a life is a is an entire

00:19:32.280 holistic picture that's yeah look at you teaching me something on a saturday morning

00:19:38.840 wide awake coming up with new things i can tell my students i'll say ria may told me

00:19:44.680 okay what's your favorite song you've ever first of all a lot of artists will say they

00:19:48.440 get famous for a song they don't particularly love is that the case

00:19:52.680 um close off was definitely the song that like that bumped everything up for me yeah i like it

00:19:58.980 i don't listen to it but i every time i play it i love it i like the reaction it gets and i like

00:20:04.860 i'm like thankful for it thank god i stuck with it yeah there's uh well it's it was a huge i mean

00:20:12.000 i my listener i mean you know i have a lot of people from the states and and some people

00:20:16.200 maybe don't know your music just so everybody knows like ria has been an out you've been out

00:20:21.700 the whole time of your career right which is amazing like it like you have to think in 2000

00:20:27.980 you said 2009 for you to be like look I started that's when I started teach no I started teaching

00:20:34.480 before that nope I lied god I just I just reduced my age by 10 years that was nice but at that time

00:20:40.880 I remember when I started teaching not too far before that and it was I was nervous to be out

00:20:46.440 as a teacher responses right so for you to be out as an artist in an industry that before gold

00:20:54.000 because I read you know the way that gold was perceived and and and taken you nobody was doing

00:21:00.140 that it's true yeah like especially with my gen like my gender I don't know what my gender is

00:21:07.800 still but like you know like nobody does yeah but you know Tegan and Sarah have a lot of people so

00:21:13.860 have a much more international career than i do and they are you know so cool and have done so

00:21:19.700 much for my self-esteem and to pay the pave the way to be like oh these cool queer musicians can

00:21:24.260 exist they're stylish and everything but like i always felt like a little bit like i'm a little 0.89

00:21:28.740 less sort of like stylish and a little more gay looking i'm like a poor man and so for me it's 0.77

00:21:35.540 like a little less stylish a little more gay you know or not more just just a little more boyish 0.68

00:21:42.100 you know like yeah and i just it was like um yeah i just never seen something exactly like mine in

00:21:50.500 in that sort of way and right wanted to i knew that i couldn't i mean anyone that knows me you

00:21:56.820 might see a picture of me and be like she could pass for straight in this picture but if anyone

00:22:00.500 meets me i'm not gonna i you know there's so many interviews that i'm not gonna pretend that i'm

00:22:05.220 straight for like the rest of my career like it would it just was never even an option whether i 0.76

00:22:11.300 want to or not so yeah close off video came out it was very there was no you know it wasn't gay

00:22:17.540 or straight it was just a bunch of people dancing in the video and it was a very low budget it was

00:22:22.340 like my brother and his friends and my friends and we recycled people like there was like my brother

00:22:27.300 was two different people and then some of the guys from neon dreams another canadian band were in it

00:22:32.420 and then when the second song came out gold i knew i needed to make a video that was who i was because

00:22:38.500 it started being people being like is this artist gay so it starts pretending not to be like right

00:22:44.020 i'd go out to these like events and people like gay people would come to me and be like you're 0.62

00:22:48.100 gay right is that a gay like i was like oh i need to make it a nap i just felt like i needed to say 0.72

00:22:53.220 like yes no big deal i'm not coming out but here's my very gay music video for gold yeah here's me 0.79

00:22:59.140 kissing a girl yeah yeah yeah but i think look and i mean i love tegan and sarah and they've been out

00:23:03.940 oh i don't know how long they've been out they've been out god early 2000s anyways um maybe 2000

00:23:14.100 yeah a long time long time but their music was still i everybody knew they were gay and whatever

00:23:20.420 but yours it was a little more sexualized it was a little bit more here you know what i mean

00:23:27.060 whereas i think tegan and sarah came in it softly with a lot of metaphor and a lot of you know yeah

00:23:33.460 because yeah melissa etheridge-esque kind of music right everybody still knew they were gay

00:23:39.620 they're amazing to watch in person because they're very funny together um but i still say that you

00:23:44.820 kind of put it here's me in a music video with a girl you know what i mean yeah and i think that

00:23:51.780 they had to play it like it wouldn't have worked before it worked there you go yeah it wouldn't

00:23:58.100 have worked i think my first single being so successful and having people just think whatever

00:24:02.580 they want and getting a bunch of like straight moms and a bunch of like older dudes you know

00:24:10.620 and then and then that's one being like oh and this is my love interest you know where if I did

00:24:15.160 that first it might have kind of alienated people to be like oh this isn't for me or yeah even gay

00:24:20.940 people can be bad for that oh it's a gay thing okay like exactly and I think and maybe it was

00:24:26.660 just a little bit more natural maybe it was just a little bit more but I feel like you just kind of

00:24:32.340 It's just, again, I don't know how nervous you felt about it, but you're just like, this is where it has to be like this.

00:24:41.980 I can't run the rest of my life or my career, you know, saying, oh, my partner or they just to just to keep everybody at bay.

00:24:50.980 That's too much. And I would expect for an artist to say what they really want to say.

00:24:57.500 If they're not authentic, how the hell can you do that?

00:25:00.700 yeah exactly that's exactly it so I felt like at that point I was like I have a higher purpose

00:25:07.460 which is like so good for an artist to not the worst thing an artist can do is start to think

00:25:14.280 it's a really about them and people don't like me because they don't like me or people like me

00:25:18.840 because I'm an amazing human or you know it's like it's you have to at some point adjust you

00:25:24.960 have to at some point be like oh it's a higher purpose I'm I'm showing people that this person

00:25:30.280 is a is a thing because people don't know like some people don't know that someone like me exists

00:25:35.100 where me and you know that a bunch of people like us exist yeah all the time but you know but like

00:25:41.120 so just having something that people can be proud of be like oh it just like it just helps that

00:25:47.280 thing where i couldn't visualize what i wanted to be as an i couldn't even visualize what i would

00:25:52.080 look like as an adult because i looked like a boy my whole life right so it's like now someone else

00:25:56.780 can be like oh maybe that's what I'm gonna be like as an adult maybe a little bit different

00:26:00.860 probably because they're not exactly me but at least they have a path to be like oh look I can

00:26:06.080 do arts and be myself and wear hoodies have a kid like well I think it's and as a teacher it's the

00:26:13.820 same right like I came out within my first year of teaching and a lot of people are like a lot of

00:26:18.160 people still ask me are you out are you whatever I'm like of course I am because that's way more

00:26:23.680 important I feel like being being gay and being out not to tell people to be gay some people get

00:26:30.360 that confused but to be exactly who I want to be in front of a room full of kids every single year

00:26:36.260 doesn't tell them who to be it just gives them the option of diversity it gives them the option 0.99

00:26:43.440 of this well if Joanna can stand in front of the classroom and you know have tattoos all over her

00:26:48.240 arm and and say my girlfriend or my wife yeah and not think anything of it then then that's

00:26:56.920 an open door and i think for you you do it on just such a bigger scale yeah it's very it's so

00:27:04.780 important a that's like you just having that representation and that's like what we hear now

00:27:09.720 in the last couple years everyone's so aware of it it's like you know we're talking about like

00:27:13.620 even i don't know why this popped in my head now but like the asian community's representation

00:27:18.080 like you know what Indian kids saw growing up that absolutely the Simpsons and all that stuff

00:27:24.640 and it's like it's so important yeah just to be comfortable and not hide yourself and give people

00:27:30.020 another it helps everybody it helps like someone in your class is going to have a kid one day that

00:27:35.560 has the same like gender as you and blah blah and it's going to be so not a shock because

00:27:41.480 they have a bud that was a teacher that was you know what exactly and already kids in my school 0.95

00:27:47.440 like I've seen a progression and I don't know if you've seen this too in your industry, right?

00:27:51.940 You just see a progression of people just at this point going, whatever, my kids don't care.

00:27:59.200 I'm not shocking anybody. I'm not, everybody's like, oh, it's so different. I'm like, you know

00:28:03.480 what? My kids find me boring. And that's about, and which is the loveliest thing, right? I'm just

00:28:09.260 the same boring person. I say wife, they don't care. I say whatever. And I think that's the 1.00

00:28:16.940 best place to get to but you need people to stand up and do that right totally yeah okay so my my

00:28:23.740 four favorite songs you want to know my four favorite songs yeah i have two cards just so you

00:28:27.820 know i am a teacher so take your clothes you gotta let clothes off you got i'm sorry i was going out

00:28:33.420 all the time it was a great song it was at every single club i went to it's fantastic bend i love

00:28:42.300 bend oh yeah uh for uh sorry broken with tegan was amazing can we talk about the darkness of

00:28:50.380 that song for a second yeah like were you like so when did you write broken broken i wrote uh so

00:28:57.900 after i got my record deal i moved to montreal i was i i was in a relationship for a few years that

00:29:05.420 was like really unhealthy like just like a toxic relationship and i'm i knew that me getting really

00:29:16.380 busy and touring it was not possible in this relationship there's a lot of jealousy and

00:29:21.100 so when i got this opportunity it was also like like it broke us up right and i went to montreal

00:29:29.580 alone and just rented a room in a house and it was a soundproof room that a

00:29:34.980 musician had done up right oh I could write all through the night even though

00:29:39.660 I had roommates and yeah I wrote and recorded I think Bend was made that

00:29:45.640 there and and definitely broken and I didn't know how to finish it that song

00:29:51.660 never had a bridge and so it just sat with like verse chorus verse chorus for

00:29:55.120 like probably a year and a half or two years.

00:29:59.320 I'm still Teagan came into like a writing session with me

00:30:02.520 and I just played her all of my ideas.

00:30:05.160 Yeah.

00:30:06.000 Teagan Quinn, sorry, we're both just using the first name,

00:30:08.200 but.

00:30:09.040 Yeah, Teagan and Sarah, Teagan and Sarah.

00:30:12.560 But yeah, that song is just, yeah,

00:30:15.840 I think a lot of the songs of mine that have done well

00:30:17.840 have been more positive and that's like most artists,

00:30:20.360 like your radio singles are like the, yeah,

00:30:22.640 take your clothes off or like, you know, I love you.

00:30:26.140 Love me back.

00:30:27.380 And this is just a darker, yeah.

00:30:29.780 I have some of my favorite songs like are,

00:30:32.700 I have a song called crazy on my first album.

00:30:34.700 That's just about me being paranoid.

00:30:36.600 I was a relationship before that.

00:30:38.180 I was like, every second, this girl wasn't with me. 1.00

00:30:40.740 I assumed she was cheating on me.

00:30:42.600 I couldn't stop thinking about it.

00:30:46.000 And then I realized one day I saw my group of friends post

00:30:50.000 that they were out without me, like a nice day.

00:30:52.340 and they were just on Civil Hill hangout place in Halifax.

00:30:55.400 I know that place very well, yeah.

00:30:57.160 And that triggered the same feeling. 0.99

00:30:58.640 And I was like, oh fuck, I'm paranoid. 0.99

00:31:00.780 It's not the girl. 1.00

00:31:01.620 It's not about her. 0.99

00:31:03.400 So I wrote this song being like, I'm fucking crazy. 0.99

00:31:05.600 Like she's sleeping with someone else. 1.00

00:31:07.720 She's lying to me again.

00:31:08.840 It was basically like, instead of hiding these feelings,

00:31:11.540 I'm just going to tell you every time you're gone, 1.00

00:31:14.400 you're sleeping with someone else, I'm fucking crazy. 1.00

00:31:16.100 Like what the fuck is wrong with me? 1.00

00:31:17.540 And that's the song. 0.96

00:31:18.300 And it's like, I need those songs because it's like,

00:31:22.340 the more that song surprising with how many people that's their favorite especially guys a

00:31:26.780 lot of straight guys that get dragged to my shows in the beginning you know they're like oh my wife's

00:31:32.480 obsessed do I don't I don't know why but and then they'll usually come up and be like oh because

00:31:37.380 it's such like a toxic masculinity trait of feeling like you're not good enough it into

00:31:43.380 feeling like you're paranoid and your partner's cheating on you and it feels like if your partner

00:31:47.120 is cheating on you for some reason that's like you just feel this big like right I haven't even

00:31:52.520 worked it all out yet but I know it's like it's it's like girl it's like people like us that

00:31:56.520 relate to it and it's guys mostly yeah okay that's an important piece of the puzzle then to get out

00:32:02.680 there a hundred percent a hundred percent and I think you start to realize too when you're when

00:32:08.120 you saw your friends hanging out you're like oh I have the same then it's not it has nothing to do

00:32:12.860 with them. I think a lot of our, our issues and a lot of the things, when we say toxic masculinity,

00:32:19.200 or when we say we have these traits and we all have some, I think a lot of the times we're very

00:32:24.820 in the beginning, unless you get some help, unless you get some perspective, unless you do some

00:32:29.300 self-reflection, they're constantly everybody else. It's them. It's that person. It's my mom.

00:32:34.660 it's my ex-girlfriend it's my brother yeah and at some point when you go oh oh it it's me and i

00:32:43.300 don't know why it's me obviously you've had experiences that have led up to that but that

00:32:47.940 don't shouldn't encapsulate the way that you treat everybody else i think if we can all get there and

00:32:54.340 then here's the best part admit it like you admit it on a freaking world stage most of us just you

00:33:01.060 you know, sit at home in our journal and go, oh, or admit to our close circle.

00:33:05.640 Right.

00:33:06.000 But you're up here having therapy while singing to 5,000 people.

00:33:11.760 True, right?

00:33:13.120 Yeah.

00:33:14.480 I think it's incredibly important to sort of get to that place, you know, and admit.

00:33:21.200 And if we do it loud and if we do it out, I think then everybody else gets to say, oh,

00:33:27.700 yeah, there's one time I felt this.

00:33:29.540 Oh, yeah, there's one.

00:33:30.300 you know that's the thing and like some everyone has those couple things that they just feel like

00:33:36.840 I'm never going to tell anyone yeah and and I have them too but like that was one that that for some

00:33:44.060 reason that year was like this is my darkest secret I can think of and then like you write

00:33:48.520 it down and you're like that's not that bad and then I'm like objectively looking at it and being 0.99

00:33:52.760 like oh fuck my best friend definitely feels this way because she's fucking crazy right now too 0.99

00:33:56.840 you know what i mean and then and then you just realize that anything that your brain is capable 0.99

00:34:02.400 of feeling like other people feel it too and it just brings you closer it's almost like a little

00:34:07.340 secret weapon like you know if you're if you're meeting someone and it's like you know when

00:34:12.540 someone opens up and says like oh i'm having a really hard day my you know my cat just died

00:34:17.020 all of a sudden you're giving the other person this ability to empathize with you and share

00:34:21.880 their store it's it just it brings it closer and art is no exception like if you're an artist and

00:34:27.060 you have a bunch of bubbly songs about nothing it's hard for people to come in and and relate

00:34:31.820 to you and i think without knowing a lot of these like where i spilled my guts i think is where i've

00:34:37.720 i've built some cool relationships well but that's the thing i mean we all like the bubbly

00:34:43.260 songs right we like to blast the music singing clothes off going down the road that's so much

00:34:48.460 fun living in that mantra but but people listen to music for the emotion it creates and it taps

00:34:57.940 into for that person we don't always want to cry but yeah that's what that's what makes us human

00:35:07.720 that's what connects us to an artist you know and that's why i think for me listening to like

00:35:14.380 my favorite song of yours is uh for your love for sure and i think that listening to that song for

00:35:21.460 me i'm like oh my first of all i thought you wrote it for me i'm like oh i think she listened

00:35:28.520 to some of my stuff that i've been through i think she sat down and ria may wrote this song

00:35:33.240 you should have put for joanna right in the caption but that's the key you know what i mean

00:35:39.020 the key is being able to write something so that somebody in a different part of the world going

00:35:44.040 through a different experience but feels that can actually tap into it that's I like that you like

00:35:51.740 that song it's like one of the that was the first song I released as an independent artist and oh my

00:35:58.580 god yeah that was like yes the last song I released was Sony was a song called too close

00:36:05.160 and we parted ways when that was like on the radio climbing the charts and it was a very weird I was

00:36:11.320 like so thankful for them pushing the song and so like sad to be leaving and just had mixed emotions

00:36:17.900 like you know well what was that like okay so you're with sony you pump out all this music you

00:36:23.500 seem to be doing incredibly well and then what what happened you know i'm learning now it's like

00:36:31.920 labels change so much and the the team i had at the beginning which i can't say enough good things

00:36:39.740 about it just wasn't the team I had at the end right it's like they had they let go like 16

00:36:45.300 people one day that were like yeah and like four of them were like on my team like my day-to-day

00:36:50.660 team yeah and just a whole bunch of things start changing and I kept the same A&R guy like A&R

00:36:56.900 people um are sort of like your you know you would submit your songs to them and say here's what I'm

00:37:03.320 thinking this is my album and they might come back and say oh this is great this one would be really

00:37:06.800 good with you know Beyonce or this one would be this one doesn't I don't know that never happened

00:37:12.140 to me this one call Beyonce just give me a second let me call Beyonce for you and then it would be

00:37:16.400 you know they might be say this one is really great I don't think it's strong enough let's

00:37:20.860 find another producer they would try to like they're just like that person that's really good

00:37:24.820 at um right you know helping with the overall picture and I had the same A&R guy the whole

00:37:30.020 time loved him like would sleep on his couch in Toronto we were really close and I'm really sad

00:37:35.480 to not be with him anymore but the label just wasn't the same and it wasn't um

00:37:40.600 I was just struggling I it was a lot slower for me to release music and it just wasn't the same

00:37:48.300 experience and my manager just just did whatever yeah it was it was a it was a nice ending and

00:37:57.440 and by the way like I think this is a lesson too like Warner called Sony when Warner signed me this

00:38:04.140 year they just said we just want to call sony hang on we'll call you back you know it's a job like a

00:38:09.440 job calling your references so your references sure yeah and i knew i knew they were i knew the

00:38:16.060 loyal the loyalty there they were gonna say nothing but great things and you know i think

00:38:21.400 a new label is probably looking for like if they were like i uh i'll tell you about ria she's really

00:38:27.580 she comes from with a big eagle she doesn't actually write her own songs we did uh this 0.97

00:38:33.700 you know she's really expensive here's what ria comes with two boiled eggs that's what she comes 0.50

00:38:38.220 with she doesn't have her two boiled eggs she doesn't go on stage um so they i don't know

00:38:44.520 exactly what that conversation was like but i i never was nervous for a minute because i knew

00:38:49.040 that i handled myself well there and if anything i just wanted to work more and i was coming up

00:38:53.900 against a wall and they told warner that and warner offered me a nice deal which is was an

00:39:02.640 interesting so i haven't met a lot of the staff on warner it's all been zoom meetings but right

00:39:08.460 you know bigger they're a bigger label up here in canada and they've done great things so yeah

00:39:14.880 they have great people on their label now go you know i never thought about this until right now

00:39:19.820 But when you came out, you have iTunes, but there hasn't been that shift to Spotify.

00:39:26.180 So of course, that was going to impact Sony and that label and how many people they could

00:39:33.560 keep and artists they could pump out and money they no longer had, because you'd seen this

00:39:39.260 huge shift to listening to music online and labels no longer had that power.

00:39:45.380 So you kind of came in right at that time where you came in, you pumped out some great

00:39:52.760 music and then boom, Spotify and all of that changes everything.

00:40:00.540 Yeah, it's funny because even right, like maybe five to 10 years before I signed, there

00:40:07.200 was this really negative outlook in the Canadian industry where like labels were making no

00:40:12.780 money at all because of like lime was a lime water people were right before

00:40:18.720 iTunes came out there was no way to monetize like the internet was just

00:40:23.040 like everyone was getting their music literally for free concept of when

00:40:27.240 iTunes came out people were like people aren't gonna pay a dollar for a song

00:40:30.060 they could you know and some somehow Apple got it together it was great so

00:40:35.220 when I got signed it was in this really fruitful era of like everyone was so

00:40:40.320 happy and they were like a lot of these staff had worked at the record industry 30 years ago and

00:40:45.040 were like oh it was so incredible and these last few years feels like this we're finally signing

00:40:49.900 domestic we're you know putting money into artists and it's great and yeah I think in a lot of ways

00:40:58.900 Spotify like it's it's weird you know because when Spotify came along and then Apple streaming

00:41:04.020 started labels do make quite a bit of money from streaming they all had their hands in Spotify they

00:41:09.620 all owned parts of it right and the people that don't make the money now are like these songwriters

00:41:15.940 like so people that write songs that are behind the scenes and then independent artists can't

00:41:25.060 there's like a crazy divide now like independent artists used to be able to yeah sell off

00:41:29.620 physical cds and make their living and now it's just it's yeah it's like you said it changed

00:41:37.140 everything some people are benefiting more some people are benefiting a lot less and it's regardless

00:41:43.780 no one knows what they're doing so it's like 30 years in the music industry sometimes can be erased

00:41:50.660 you know in a second because you don't know the algorithms of spotify you just knew how to like

00:41:57.300 shake someone's hand at the radio station yeah so there's a lot of crossover of course like

00:42:02.980 but it's yeah it's a bit of the wild west for sure how long were you independent for

00:42:09.340 after sony to warner um about a year okay so i released uh i released for your love i released

00:42:19.360 swoon that's the song i'm telling you warner heard that song it went joanna's song that's

00:42:25.160 why we're signing you maybe um yeah i released swoon i love swoon i forgot about swoon swoon

00:42:32.860 there was another song i released called therapy last year and a song and then i released some

00:42:38.300 cover i just start putting stuff out and not ask one which is really refreshing like usually i have

00:42:44.220 to be like you know do you like this song and then maybe and then like a month later remember this

00:42:49.740 song i think you like it we should release it whereas this one was like i'm gonna upload it

00:42:54.220 and release it in three weeks done that's amazing and um it was fun and it had a bit yeah like we

00:43:00.220 got a bit of um for your love had a little bit of its own life but it is it's a great song guys

00:43:06.060 i do enjoy being on a label for me it works a bit better with what i like to put my energy into

00:43:12.560 sure it's just like the songwriting and and the touring yeah um but yeah but i think now too

00:43:20.760 being with warner you're a little bit older you've been through a few you've jumped through a few

00:43:24.680 hoops i would expect especially having that time where you released your own stuff you didn't ask

00:43:30.760 anybody and look it did well warner it's kind of like you know somebody a little bit older more

00:43:36.600 experienced coming to the table and they're going to respect that a little bit further they're going

00:43:40.840 to listen to you a little bit more rather than saying nah change this we want you working with

00:43:45.960 this person yeah 100 and i mean it's such a new relationship but that is what i'm yeah thinking

00:43:53.560 and hoping and i think labels these days are smart like they know that i don't know man if

00:43:59.080 unless you have a bazillion dollars to manufacture like a bts or something like you can't really

00:44:03.400 manufacture a human not in this country you can't just you need i think the best thing you can do

00:44:09.080 is is is give an artist space um and might you know maybe they want to do something and you give

00:44:15.960 them like i want to do a video that's like this and you give them the money and you give them the

00:44:19.400 freedom because yeah i mean it's all about just so much so many artists have potential and they

00:44:26.120 just don't get to see that through and i think that's the biggest gift you can give someone is

00:44:30.300 to just let them get better at what they do right and i i i really i do think that this new label

00:44:36.720 will be um will be like that but we'll see i'll let you know i'll come back on the podcast if they

00:44:41.760 suck uh okay so we're going to talk about tours a little bit first of all you've toured with tegan

00:44:48.440 sarah we're going to talk about how you snuck in to meet them because that's awesome i don't know 0.55

00:44:52.040 why i wasn't with you for that uh katie lang and dido my first question you ready i'm gonna need

00:44:58.280 an honest answer here ria okay out of those four people who's the best kisser katie lay

00:45:11.080 it's a solid answer she's had the most experience yeah most experience she's um

00:45:16.200 um man that her katie lang show is like unbelievable i'm glad i didn't see the show

00:45:24.660 before we opened you know i mean i'm glad i didn't like see the show and then we had to go open

00:45:28.980 because oh god it's so good like we when we showed up to the green room her assistant came and gave

00:45:36.140 us all green smoothies and um everything was like all zen and relaxed and just like so pro they were

00:45:44.400 it was right yeah kenny's cool um so you snuck in to meet tegan and sarah what what what's that

00:45:51.280 story so in canada we have these mmvas it's much music video awards they're kind of like the mtv

00:45:57.600 awards in the states and after close off got nominated or go something got nominated maybe

00:46:04.720 gold video got nominated for an mmba and there's these classes of artists where it's like the a

00:46:11.120 level b level and i was in the b level and so we were downstairs with open bar but like also like

00:46:17.440 influencers and like just like important a lot it wasn't just artists and then the a level artists

00:46:22.080 were like you know like miley cyrus tegan and sarah i don't know marianna's trench 21 i don't

00:46:31.100 know right people yeah and i was like i've known for years that i am perfect to open for tegan and

00:46:39.820 Sarah like that is just it's a no-brainer and my team was like it's a no-brainer but

00:46:44.740 as as big as your team is you still need to have that connection no time if if if Tegan and Sarah

00:46:52.960 get a phone call from like hey this is um David at Warner uh we have an artist name like you know

00:46:58.960 imagine like Jonah blah blah blah can they open right no what are you talking no you need that

00:47:05.520 personal connection so i was like i i love drinking alcohol i really do but i know i know that i

00:47:12.380 couldn't at that event i was like what i'm gonna do zero drinks which is take me if everyone around

00:47:18.020 me is drinking and i'm not i'm not fun actually and my only goal was to meet tegan and sarah and

00:47:24.880 so everyone would come up to me like the head of iheart radio really wonderful beautiful gay man

00:47:29.580 ria what are you doing i was like oh you know i'm just trying to meet tegan sarah can you help me

00:47:33.680 out and then someone else would come down how have you been I'd be better if I could meet Tegan and

00:47:37.600 Sarah to be charming and not annoying but just I wanted everyone right and finally actually someone

00:47:46.600 I met at the Warner team was like I think I helped you meet Tegan and Sarah I I use like 12 people

00:47:51.440 oh someone came down with a bracelet I think it was um I shared a publicist with Fifth Harmony

00:47:57.760 right and they were in the a-level so well it's harmony yeah i think one of them had their

00:48:03.620 bracelet take come off or something and someone else said this is a half a bracelet just tie this

00:48:09.300 on right follow me and it was someone that wouldn't get questioned like you know like 0.82

00:48:13.920 the head of cbc i don't know someone who the fuck knows the head of cbc and it was like a movie 0.80

00:48:21.140 because i finally got upstairs past the guard and then there was one more guard that was in front of 0.95

00:48:25.380 the green rooms right just worked with me he was my personal security at the juno's song circle i

00:48:32.320 had just played yeah nice to see you again and i was like oh and we kind of like high five and i

00:48:38.640 was like i was like oh just coming in to hang out he's like awesome let me in didn't even think

00:48:43.140 right and then i go outside and i see their personal security and their publicists and i was

00:48:49.520 like there was another sony person up there they could not have let me up there it was illegal but

00:48:55.960 once i got up there i could hang out with the sony staff that were up there right so i was like

00:49:00.460 you need to go talk to the anyway long story just all these like different levels to the point of

00:49:06.680 when finally their publicist went in to ask them if they could meet me i was shaking as if i was

00:49:12.380 like going to murder them like in my head i was like this looks insane my whole night has been

00:49:17.300 trying to meet them they're not gonna want i looked like that crazy girl and i was like i've 0.99

00:49:23.500 made a horrible decision then they pull me into their room chica and sarah are very little people

00:49:28.500 they're so they're like so cute but they're very little people and i'm very big and i'm kind of

00:49:34.840 self-conscious about how big i am sometimes because i'm i'm tall and i come into this room

00:49:39.880 that's so well lit you could like see through people's skin and their skin's perfect by the

00:49:44.920 way and I have rosacea and it's like this tiny room that's well lit they have 12 people around

00:49:50.640 the outside of the room because their whole team couldn't fit in this tiny well-lit room

00:49:55.140 then those two then those two and then me with a big red face and I'm like hey and they had

00:50:03.260 clearly done a bit of google search on me before I came in or their team head and they were like

00:50:07.140 hey you live in Montreal Sarah lived in Montreal I was like oh yeah and then all this stuff and I

00:50:12.400 I started um shaking a little bit and to I this really showed me what a great person Tegan is

00:50:22.000 because Tegan noticed me getting nervous and she shot into talking about herself taking all

00:50:27.520 the energy off me you know right he's like oh I'm doing this and blah blah do you like this

00:50:31.760 or what about this and then she said how is touring going how are things going and I had

00:50:37.120 just got kicked off a tour like I was supposed to open for ex-ambassadors but then they at the

00:50:41.760 last moment said no and took their friend and i wanted everything in my heart i wanted to tell

00:50:47.520 tegan that i was doing great and i all that came out of my mouth was i just got kicked off a tour

00:50:53.760 i was like oh god and then she was like oh when was it i was like it was supposed to be january

00:51:00.080 february like it was going to be huge and anyway it's fine i'm just bummed sorry i shouldn't have

00:51:05.440 said that and then she was like well hold on a minute sarah ria europe the europe tour

00:51:10.240 they had a tour in europe january february and this was like august and i was like what

00:51:17.160 they're like you should come on tour with us you should come what really i was like oh okay and 0.91

00:51:23.840 then i'm like they like you and they've offered you something get the fuck out of this small room

00:51:28.680 have a nice night yeah so and i was like and i know me what like i just know i'm like they think 0.54

00:51:33.680 you're cool. That only lasts a couple days. I got to get the fuck out of here. So I just like I was

00:51:40.900 like, Okay, well, I actually have to go like, I need to go call my mom, my publicist, my manager,

00:51:46.400 my girlfriend. And I just backed out of the room. And just fucking gunned it and left the whole

00:51:52.640 event. And it was a big deal for me because I just knew for my career, it was a big deal. And I just 0.99

00:51:57.960 it meant a lot that they liked me. And now it's funny. And I tell this story not embarrassed

00:52:02.020 because they're they are my buds now yeah it was just a moment that I knew I needed to make happen

00:52:08.460 and so there it is yeah the my favorite part of that story and I want everybody that's listening

00:52:14.720 to to really listen to the part in my opinion that got you on that tour was you being honest

00:52:22.220 about who you are where you were at and what you were going through that's what got you the what

00:52:28.520 got you that tour wasn't bullcrapping about what your life is or bigging up where you are it was

00:52:33.780 saying i just got kicked off a tour and it sucked yeah you're right you know it's something everybody

00:52:40.800 would want to hide they wouldn't want to show that because then tegan and sarah would think what i'm

00:52:45.240 not good or they would whatever but it's that authenticity that people are so terrified of

00:52:52.680 showing and and you're on tour in Europe yeah yeah you're right that's it's uh yeah when I said

00:53:02.120 it I thought it was going to come across like like yeah like I was a loser and then I was not

00:53:08.200 anywhere near ready to tour with bigger artists or something and yeah I guess it came but then 0.94

00:53:14.260 to Tegan she was like oh god like maybe she was like I can relate that really sucks

00:53:17.860 oh you should come with us right the same thing we were talking about earlier you put out your

00:53:23.940 insecurities you put up your fears you put out you know your panic craziness which we all have

00:53:29.540 and instead of people being driven away for you from you for that they're drawn into you because

00:53:35.940 of that yeah that's like a that's a big that's a big lesson isn't it that's the thing i'm gonna cry

00:53:42.720 that's lovely that's lovely and tegan and sarah are you know hilarious amazing writers i know you

00:53:51.140 you know you did that doing that song when you did the uh what was the song's name again when

00:53:56.520 you did broken with tegan did you did you guys sit down and write together then for that yeah so they

00:54:01.680 had they were on another tour after that through canada and had a couple days off i i think they

00:54:08.140 often when they have days off sarah goes to montreal and tegan does whatever that's not that

00:54:14.460 and i think tegan knew that i was in toronto and she had some friends that just had a baby or

00:54:19.020 something but i was i had two days she had two days off there and i had two days in the studio

00:54:24.620 that same week and i was like just pop in the studio and uh i'll play you some stuff and see

00:54:29.820 if you can write on anything i didn't think about collaborating it's so hard to collaborate i now

00:54:34.860 know it's so hard to collaborate with anyone who's on a major label because it takes a team

00:54:41.320 of people saying yes or saying how do we make the two marketing teams work together it's just like

00:54:46.460 it's a ton of work so i didn't even think about that i was just like let's see if she she's so 0.73

00:54:51.400 good with words i some not when once i get stuck on a song i'm like fuck i can't finish it and i 0.61

00:54:57.540 just played her a bunch of things and that night she was like can you send me that broken song you 0.79

00:55:03.480 play it again i think i have an idea and she had an idea for me but it sounded like that rap and i

00:55:09.020 was like oh like i flipped i still remember i was like doing laundry and i was like dude if you were

00:55:14.680 ever gonna do a song with me it should be this you feel like a rap like it shouldn't feel like 0.81

00:55:18.900 you're singing the choruses with me harmonies like fucking indigo girls like it should be this 0.86

00:55:24.100 like you know and i think my excitement for it was so much that maybe she just couldn't say no 0.99

00:55:30.280 because I was like dude like this you need to do this and so the next day she

00:55:34.780 came back to the studio we got her to record it and then it was a bit of a

00:55:39.040 challenge so she's on she's on Warner in the States and it was like I was on

00:55:42.740 Sony and yeah that relationship there but they made it work they made it work 0.85

00:55:48.760 finally thank fuck but it was a lot it was hard to make that one work actually 0.74

00:55:53.200 but I love it I love what she did to the song we've never played it live I play 0.96

00:55:57.520 that song almost every night but hopefully she can pop up one time because it just be a surprise

00:56:03.200 but it's well now at least you're both on the same well warner canada and warner us is there

00:56:08.600 a better yeah yeah it's all connected there yeah so then you know maybe that'll happen

00:56:14.280 yeah hopefully we'll see uh okay i i have to talk about this last song because i listened to it and

00:56:21.600 i've never laughed so much in my entire life and i'm a big christmas person right so when artists

00:56:28.460 like to write depressing music about christmas i'm like you know what pull it together it's just

00:56:33.520 you know can you just write something nice just whatever i i like christmas music i like christmas

00:56:40.280 shopping um but you wrote to for those who who know take your clothes off it's to the melody

00:56:49.340 of take your clothes off but it's called give me my presence and then the subtitle is take take my

00:56:56.040 bows off and i read the subtitle and i because i knew where you're going right away when i saw

00:57:00.740 take my bows off i didn't even need to listen to it i'm like oh this is gonna be funny um i mean

00:57:06.940 you bring up asa bass which i love which i'm like oh my god she wrote this song from 1997

00:57:12.220 yeah um toys r us which in the states it doesn't even exist anymore does this concept no they've

00:57:19.840 closed them all i know um and no conscience like i was killing myself laughing and it's it's like

00:57:28.880 this song written from the perspective of a kid being like the build-up is too much like can we

00:57:35.100 can we speed this up a little bit can you drink your eggnog quicker can you eat your toast come

00:57:40.920 Yeah, that's cool. And what made you write that song?

00:57:44.840 So growing up, I have a little sister and a little brother, and my sister could not wait.

00:57:50.740 She had no patience when it came to gifts. So like the, like, if, you know, if she was asking

00:57:58.140 for like a Barbie house and every day is, am I going to get it? Am I going to get it? And then

00:58:02.480 it became on like December 22nd, they'd have to give it to her. And then the next year it'd be

00:58:07.380 like December 1st then the next year it would be like after Halloween Kyla gets to open her 1.00

00:58:11.640 like she was just harassing my parents and me and my brother were like just wait like how can you

00:58:16.400 not wait and um so one year the local radio station that kind of gave me my big break here 0.95

00:58:22.340 asked me to do a Christmas song and I was like fuck I don't know any Christmas songs but I've

00:58:28.220 always been good at just changing the lyrics to things like you know whatever I do that in class 0.97

00:58:32.620 like you would have hated me maybe because like I came in and be like miss instead of writing an

00:58:36.960 essay can i write a song about it and i'd like take a song i had already written so there was

00:58:42.240 no work there and just you know i'd make it about animal farm or i'd make it about

00:58:46.800 and so if you can make take your clothes off about animal farm i want to hear that song i'm

00:58:54.100 going to send you some political ideas that's what i'm going to do i'm going to send you like

00:58:57.440 civil war i'm going to and i want you to write me a song off or something flip the page

00:59:02.960 um but the yeah so i just basically did this live radio show and and told the story about my sister

00:59:11.360 and then you know just her unfolding and she's coming off the rails she's like how are you just

00:59:18.240 sitting there drinking eggnog and eating cheese and there's a whole present over there and cheese

00:59:25.440 why does everybody eat cheese at christmas i laugh so hard so that's where it came from and

00:59:30.480 and yeah so it's been out there's different versions of it have been out for a few years

00:59:35.380 and actually some people haunt me people will come to my shows with a sign that says take the

00:59:39.040 bows off in like april and i'm like security yeah you should just cut anybody that asks you should

00:59:47.260 be like i can see a request for take your bows off i'm on it and just sing it doesn't matter

00:59:52.160 july 1st freaking throw it out oh god i think it's amazing i think it's a fantastic song

00:59:58.760 what's coming up next so you're finishing an album finishing an album um yeah so i have lots

01:00:06.520 of because it takes so long to sign a record deal not a lot of people would know this it takes

01:00:11.820 months and months and months with lawyers and just tiny little details going back and forth

01:00:17.200 right um but wait a minute you got to get your eggs in the contract that's hard

01:00:21.520 yeah it's like on the off chance that ria is playing in iceland and a three-week tour turns

01:00:30.340 into a six-week tour and then has to do physical merch should it be a four percent or a five 1.00

01:00:35.660 percent like literally the dumbest shit and i'm like oh my god so all that dumb shit is over 0.99

01:00:41.480 and i usually don't talk like this about that anyway um look it's important to have all those 0.99

01:00:48.460 t's crossed so there's no more fighting later obviously or no more issues but as an artist

01:00:54.220 you're like for the love of god yeah it's so important and i have an incredible lawyer and

01:00:57.860 incredible managers and i've already seen what that has done for me compared to people who

01:01:02.200 haven't and i love it right but the songwriter part of me is like i have a i don't want to show

01:01:08.340 you this other wall in my house but it's just songs on sticky notes all over the wall i'm sorry

01:01:14.420 i need to see the wall it's too messy over there because i kind of i wanted this place to look

01:01:19.140 clean and i had a friend there's this producer sarah mcdougall that was staying on this couch

01:01:24.820 in my studio for a few weeks so like there's like anyway there's just there's bedding i like it

01:01:31.220 it's it's you might you can't see it on there so i'll see the sticky notes all around that plaque

01:01:36.020 you can see the sticky notes they're white same color as the wall but oh that's why i can't see

01:01:40.020 them um so yeah it's just that's been my songs and trying to i have columns with ones that i've

01:01:48.100 written ones that are half produced and one that are done so they're all in the last two columns

01:01:52.980 where a year ago they were all in the first two columns and i'm ready to get that out and i'm

01:01:58.980 ready to i fly to toronto in a few days to do a photo shoot which i haven't done in a long time

01:02:03.980 Oh, that'll be fun.

01:02:05.120 It'll be fun.

01:02:06.940 Just getting back in that mode of ramping up again.

01:02:12.560 It feels weird.

01:02:13.460 Absolutely.

01:02:14.040 Yeah.

01:02:15.280 Are you here?

01:02:15.780 How long are you here for?

01:02:17.100 I'm there for two days.

01:02:20.360 Just, you know, I feel more and more guilty leaving my partner with the kid all alone.

01:02:25.200 That's fair.

01:02:26.140 Which is silly because, you know, in a couple of months, I'll have to leave her for weeks and weeks again.

01:02:30.800 Right.

01:02:31.200 Right. But that makes this time super important. And let's be honest, look, COVID made you put in

01:02:36.940 some time. Yeah. You know, especially when he was young. Yeah. And it's like, it made me,

01:02:42.840 got me to put in the time. It's, it's so great, but it's, I really, it's really hard on the

01:02:47.280 partner that's home. I can imagine. I've done a few little trips for personal reasons this year,

01:02:52.420 and I've been home on my own for like up to a week at a time. And it's fucking, it's no joke. 0.99

01:02:57.560 It's harder than any, definitely harder than being in a van with a bunch of people telling jokes. 0.99

01:03:04.060 Okay. I want to wrap it up by asking you a few little rapid fire questions.

01:03:08.060 Yep.

01:03:08.860 You ready? I'm just going to make them up. I usually have a list, but I don't have a list today.

01:03:14.120 Favorite movie?

01:03:16.540 Oh no.

01:03:19.600 Not so rapid fire. Guys, settle in, get second coffee.

01:03:23.400 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the OG.

01:03:24.880 the of course of course it has to be the og amazing favorite song not yours one song reg

01:03:34.080 raglan road like the cover like van morrison and sinead o'connor both do this old irish cover like

01:03:40.000 on raglan road i saw her first and new i can just cry anytime i want to when that's on

01:03:50.560 oh my i've never i'm gonna go look it up right after this oh beautiful oh my god favorite place

01:03:56.240 you've ever traveled um frig you know i really like the the hotel buffets in sweden

01:04:07.040 the buff have you ever been to a buffet in sweden you're speaking my language right now it's like

01:04:12.240 craft services but in sweden nothing else like it like the swedish i've never been to sweden

01:04:17.680 oh god you have to go um i really enjoyed a lot of a lot of you i can't believe you just said

01:04:24.800 it's my favorite place because of the hotel buffet no i feel weird about that but

01:04:29.200 i like it though right yeah i like it um favorite book uh there's an author that i love named

01:04:40.960 Lawrence Hill and he's Canadian. His half brother is Dan Hill, a musician. I saw him at an event in

01:04:48.320 Toronto and got too nervous to talk to him, but he wrote, he's probably most famous for Book of

01:04:52.580 Negroes, but he wrote several books that are just incredible. He's just such an incredible writer

01:04:58.000 and he can write from like a woman's perspective that makes no sense. It blows my mind. I really 1.00

01:05:04.260 like him, but you know what? My favorite book that I've read really recently is Glennon Doyle's,

01:05:08.280 um, what's it called? Untamed or I, I haven't read it. Oh my God. Adele posted it. So I was like,

01:05:15.560 Hey, I keep hearing about this book. I thought, I think my own sexism was like, Oh, it's like a

01:05:19.720 self-help book for, you know, moms, which I am a mom. Forget that I'm in that category now.

01:05:25.100 Yep. But anyway, Glennon Doyle is this amazing writer and she left her husband for this famous

01:05:30.040 soccer player woman named Abby Wambach. And her, her, her writing is just, it's for everyone.

01:05:37.720 It's for

01:05:38.620 I'm going to read it

01:05:39.320 I love this book

01:05:40.140 And it's going to change your life

01:05:41.180 I listened to the audiobook

01:05:42.160 When I drove to Toronto

01:05:43.920 It's like a 16-hour drive

01:05:45.240 And I wasn't bored for a single

01:05:46.940 I wanted the drive to last longer

01:05:48.280 So that's my most recent favorite book

01:05:50.880 I love it

01:05:51.700 Okay, last question

01:05:52.420 You ready?

01:05:53.140 You can have three people at your dinner table

01:05:55.220 Anytime in history

01:05:57.080 Who do you invite?

01:06:00.580 Oh, jeez

01:06:01.900 You're wishing I gave you this question earlier

01:06:03.360 I can tell

01:06:03.940 Yeah, this is a hard one

01:06:07.720 um I could play the Jeopardy music if I was prepared but yeah like I could make that like

01:06:16.720 who knows I love funny people so like I feel like maybe I would say like Kevin Hart Cat

01:06:22.660 Williams and Tiffany Haddish just to just to howl for the next however long yeah I like it

01:06:29.640 I'm into it um I know that you're affiliated before we go I know that you're affiliated with

01:06:34.360 a charity because I've noticed on different things you want to just say that real quick

01:06:37.580 so people know i'm affiliated with a bunch of charities i wonder which one you you mean i read

01:06:43.000 about uh anti-racism oh so that um that is a a charity that is not i can't take any credit for

01:06:53.720 it but i've signed on to it's artists against racism there it is yeah yeah and it's just being

01:06:58.300 a part of this network that is ongoing that is going to be um yeah artists raising money um for

01:07:06.240 issues that this this place will will deem fit so it's just a huge network of artists raising money

01:07:11.920 which i'm a very small small part of but of course it's amazing to be a part of any other charities

01:07:18.800 you want to just chat about um i really love um my heart is in like um food banks and and poverty

01:07:29.280 and things like that so feed nova scotia i'm the province i live in in canada is called nova scotia

01:07:34.160 and um there's a charity called out of the cold um that have done incredible things this year to

01:07:42.320 raise money and raise awareness and get the government to actually pay for hotels for the

01:07:48.240 homeless population to live in through the winter wow there used to be a homeless issue in halifax

01:07:54.240 and now because of the pandemic and everything that's been happening and the rent going out of

01:07:57.680 to control that um this this little place out of the cold they're they're taking responsibility

01:08:05.420 really they're giving people showers they're making sure every family in halifax has a place

01:08:09.200 to live it'll literally the conversations will be like okay this hotel's full we have a mom with

01:08:13.600 three kids find it now tonight and they're finding it tonight so i've been doing these little um

01:08:19.660 things all winter uh last winter especially where i would people would pay me a certain amount of

01:08:25.640 money and I would say whatever they want on camera and then that was right to that to out of the cold

01:08:31.160 was that on cameo or is that something else um I didn't do on cameo I did it uh through my own

01:08:38.000 sort of like yeah because because cameo takes 30 and I wanted 100 to go here and I didn't want

01:08:46.160 amazing you know what I think I'll do that I think that's a fantastic uh mostly people like

01:08:52.760 to insult politicians but i think that's a lovely way to use for somebody to get something that they

01:08:58.600 really want and they treasure and for it takes no time from you know from from you or whatever in

01:09:05.000 order and then just donate all the money i think that's a lovely idea yeah it's fun yeah we have

01:09:09.320 an out of the cold here i'm gonna do the same thing perfect okay guys i'm gonna ask re to stick

01:09:15.720 around because we're gonna talk about things you're not allowed to hear um but for now i'll

01:09:21.720 say goodbye thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next tuesday same bat time same bat channel

01:09:27.000 am i allowed to say that do you think that's copy written uh no all right all right have a great day

01:09:33.640 Hey guys! Dismissed.

Unlearn16: Class is in Session - November 02, 2021

The One Where I Talk to Ria Mae...And We Don't Take Out Clothes Of

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