00:02:23.760and the right, or elements, are now stipulating
00:02:28.400that well obviously she's been hiding it her whole life and she has she was actually born a
00:02:38.140man and she's hiding it and she snuck in to compete and to win at boxing and guys my head
00:02:45.140and she has this advantage and a lot of people are talking about the fact that she has elevated0.90
00:02:49.780levels of testosterone well some athletes do some athletes do which which brings me to the point
00:02:56.300where, and the reason why I'm so frustrated, and I'm not even, you know, I feel like sometimes I
00:03:02.180get this frustrated. I don't often speak on an issue because it's so enraging. I find it difficult
00:03:07.480to be articulate. So let me try to take a deep breath and really dive in. We want to create a
00:03:15.060system of athletics in which there is fair and just competition. I understand that. I absolutely
00:03:22.140understand that. But I'm going to side with Neil deGrasse Tyson here and stipulate that maybe,
00:03:29.800just maybe, that the binary of the sexes that we have created and applied to sport
00:03:37.400is not necessarily the best way to categorize levels of athletes. Because when people started
00:03:47.580arguing about trans athletics i would be very very clear i mean i've always said let them play i've
00:03:53.100also said i'm not an endocrinologist i'm not a doctor i'm not a medical professional i am not
00:03:58.940trans i am not family of somebody who's trans i just want to see people being included as the
00:04:06.780driving force in our society because i'm going to stand by the idea that fewer people get harmed
00:04:15.100when we are inclusive than not. Then people started talking about, okay, well, it's all
00:04:22.820about estrogen and testosterone levels. Okay. All right. So what did people in the trans
00:04:30.080community do? Well, they ensured that their estrogen and testosterone levels were in the0.87
00:04:35.980pre-described, I guess, categorized limits. I would expect there'd be a lower and an upper limit
00:04:43.200in order to fairly compete in each event. Well, then people are like, well, that's not good
00:04:48.040enough. That's not good enough. Because if individuals went through puberty, specifically
00:04:55.180as males going through puberty and then transitioned into a woman, that they would
00:05:01.280have all these other advantages, nothing to do with testosterone, muscle mass, bone density,
00:05:06.280height, wingspan, right? Everybody talked about this with Leah Thomas. Wingspan, the ability of
00:05:13.180oxygenation of red blood cells in order to do all of these different athletic things
00:05:18.320listen and here's what they did in my opinion as people started really talking about those issues
00:05:26.340and really stipulating the advantages of those different issues that were given to different
00:05:35.880people by the way not all cis born men not all cis born women but some and i took a step back
00:05:43.140and went huh maybe just maybe we aren't correctly identifying an even or a relatively even playing
00:05:54.360field for individuals to compete on let's look let's take it out of trans athletes for a second
00:06:03.980let's not talk about trans athletes let me just talk about me all right i'm five six putting on
00:06:11.380muscle mass, relatively difficult. I don't have a particularly high level of testosterone at a
00:06:17.760naturally occurring state. I don't have, you know, the fast twitch muscle fibers that cause people
00:06:26.520to be able to have great sprinting or jumping capacities. I wasn't born with that. And yet,
00:06:32.840And yet, I in my life had competed against cis-born women that have stood 6'2, 6'3 above me1.00
00:06:46.320They put on muscle mass in an incredible way1.00
00:06:51.220They have higher levels of naturally occurring testosterone
00:06:55.860They have the ability to jump and sprint at a much higher rate than I do
00:07:02.680They were naturally born with these things. Why am I competing against those individuals? No matter how hard I bust my butt, I'm never getting close.
00:07:14.880now if that's the case should we not maybe have more of a wide variant um factorization going into0.98
00:07:30.420how we section off athletics and none of this is to mention the horrific levels of sexism that
00:07:37.880have gone on in sport forever women weren't allowed to ski jump want to know why doctor
00:07:43.840said our uterus would fall out i i wish i was making that up i wish i was making that up
00:07:51.680there are events historically that women were taken out of because they didn't like it that
00:07:56.640they beat men whoop i am exhausted at the way in which we then weaponize or some people then
00:08:11.840weaponize this idea of naturally born aptitudes and how we should categorize them when they have
00:08:20.800zero understanding of the huge dynamic the wide ranging of dynamic that can go into giving an
00:08:31.680athlete undo natural advantages in comparison to the other field of athletes right so for imani
00:08:40.720the algerian boxer there has been talk i have no idea if it's true because heaven help me
00:08:45.600finding the truth on the internet is is really mission impossible without tom cruise um
00:08:53.040potentially this individual potentially and i say that has a y chromosome but has presented as
00:09:02.400female their entire life female general genitalia female development female across the board doctor
00:09:12.000identified her as a female has this extra chromosome or has a y chromosome which is
00:09:20.560completely possible so when people talk about you're either xx or xy they don't know what
00:09:26.560they're talking about because there are about eight variances when it comes to chromosomal
00:09:31.920realities about sex variance. Okay. We're not two sexes. We're bimodial rather than divided so
00:09:46.740clear cut into two categories. So an extra chromosome, or I think it's called Swayers1.00
00:09:55.020swire's syndrome this extra y chromosome which gives the individual0.73
00:10:00.940um who is still by the way scientifically categorized as a female scientifically
00:10:08.800categorized as a female higher levels of testosterone and from what i understand in
00:10:16.240some cases they are unable to necessarily reproduce because they lack ovaries yet they can still carry0.99
00:10:24.220a baby to term if an egg was implanted in their uterus. Does that sound confusing? Yeah. Yeah,
00:10:32.860it does. That's okay. We've been so far living in this land of the simplistic
00:10:39.960that the more information we get, it's like we want to disavow it meaning anything or having
00:10:49.360any relevance whatsoever. So rather, as Neil deGrasse Tyson so eloquently put it, rather than
00:10:55.440taking a new perspective and stepping back from the old ways of judgment and classification,
00:11:01.040maybe it's time, since we know more, to classify differently and more justly and more fairly.
00:11:11.120Because all of those people said, there's only two, there's only two, there's only two. And all
00:11:16.140a sudden when this individual presents themselves and possibly shows this chromosomal variant all
00:11:23.260of a sudden there's not only two all of a sudden the scientific classification of classifying her
00:11:29.100as a woman as she was born doesn't count anymore why because she can hit really hard
00:11:33.900we need to really take a step back and understand how this entire new not perspective but new
00:11:48.860scientific information actually plays into how do we set up a fair and just way of people
00:11:57.180competing against one another in athletic competition. Maybe that's the time we start
00:12:04.500using our heads just a little more than we used to. Maybe, just maybe, we start to understand
00:12:13.360that the perceptions and the understanding of sex in 1952 might be perhaps just a little more
00:12:24.340technically incredible as of today because we understand things better. Possibly. Right?
00:12:33.680But nobody wants to do that. What do they want to do? Well, they want to weaponize it.
00:12:37.340They want to use it to divide. They want to use it to elevate levels of hatred and animosity and
00:12:44.560anger in order to do what i mean i have never seen more individuals that have never spoken
00:12:54.800about women's sports in their entire life speak about protecting women's sports those same
00:13:02.480individuals would have stood against title nine those same individuals would talk about how women
00:13:09.120right now don't deserve the same funding model in the wnba by the by side note everybody talking
00:13:17.760about the wnba as though they were demanding the same pay scale as lebron and all of the
00:13:24.480rest in the nba have never actually listened ever what they were saying was they want the same
00:13:31.920percentages. So if the NBA makes a million dollars and LeBron makes 20%, great. The top
00:13:40.320player in the WNBA should be making 20%. WNBA players don't make any money off their jerseys.1.00
00:13:48.260They don't make any extra sort of out-of-pocket money on anything. All they were demanding0.99
00:13:54.600Is an equitable distribution of the money
00:17:00.800I think we just need to figure out how we can better address, classify, how we can apply this knowledge we have to sport in order to make it, it doesn't, we want it to be inclusive, sure.
00:17:25.920Do I want to see the best of the best? Sure. But when I say it's the best of the best,
00:17:35.860am I allowing, and I know Michael Phelps has a laundry list of things he is great at,
00:17:42.160am I, I mean, exceptionality in his physical, naturally born makeup? He's double jointed,
00:17:49.780he has extra bones. I think the guy has gills. I don't think it's fair. Are we going to then
00:17:56.100start acknowledging all of that? And what is the difference? What is the difference between
00:18:02.460Michael Phelps and all of his genetically born predispositions in order to be great swimmer
00:18:09.640and the average guy? Cis-born man. I want to know what that difference is.
00:22:51.460Because if we could agree on that, if we could agree on what we want out of it, then the methodology for the way in which we wanted to create and we wanted to encourage and we wanted to empower young individuals to strive to be great would be very different.
00:23:13.520and there wouldn't be these arguments and this rage and this call to violence
00:23:31.080you know and we've seen this we've seen this in our treatment of different athletes
00:23:38.240Alonia, I can't remember her last name. She's an incredible sevens rugby player for the women's side of the United States. The woman runs a hundred meter sprint, one second behind world record holders.0.55
00:23:56.500She is one of the most physically dominating, powerful athletes I've ever seen1.00
00:25:47.080Heaven forbid you show a level of determination and aggression, an individualistic kind of empowered nonstop attack of competing at your sport and winning.1.00
00:26:07.160heaven forbid, because as soon as you're that, you can't even be a woman anymore because the woman0.69
00:26:15.400category has been so clearly defined and limited. Gross. What a waste.0.76
00:26:25.380Now, I am not saying there shouldn't be limits. I am not saying there shouldn't be safety
00:26:32.420parameters. I am not saying there shouldn't be weight classes and divisions made so people don't
00:26:38.540get injured and don't get hurt. Of course, in my head, I could still play rugby seven. If I stood
00:26:45.320up against Elonia, I would be a squished pancake with a memory of when I used to be able to hold
00:26:55.660a rugby ball and run down the field, she would hit me so hard that I would forget that I even
00:27:02.560was a rugby player. I shouldn't be competing against her. Now, some people would say, yeah,
00:27:11.600but Joanna, if you train to that degree, right? Well, I understand that that's possible, but let's
00:27:18.640also understand that I could train as hard as she did, and there could be natural advantages that
00:27:25.580individuals have. And I have no problems with those natural advantages, to be honest with you.
00:27:29.700I have other natural advantages. I have really good hair. There's not a sport for that yet,
00:27:34.540but I'm sure one day there will be. It is to acknowledge the natural advantages,
00:27:40.420but not just categorize them male and female, A, B, line one, line two, because life is more
00:27:48.340complicated than that. Society is more complicated than that. Understanding greatness is more
00:27:54.780complicated than that and the minute we can start to understand that and embrace that
00:28:03.020the that's the day we can actually start to build something much more practical and impressive
00:28:12.220and magical than ever before but if you want to stick your head in the sand and say everything's
00:28:17.980black and white everything's right and wrong please go left please go right there's only two
00:28:22.460a binary is the way it's always existed from here to eternity well my friends
00:28:30.780you are living in a fictitious world where simplicity reigns supreme because you're
00:28:38.460not ready for the truth and i was under the impression that your side was all about facts
00:28:44.140over feelings having said that i hope i didn't hurt your feelings too much in this episode but