Unlearn16: Class is in Session - The One Where Rev. Dan and I Fight The Trolls and Dogma (Hi Kevin Smith)

00:00:00.000 class is in session how you doing and welcome to unlearned 16 class is in session guys

00:00:08.840 reverend dan came back i'm so happy you came back because i feel like we are deep in conversation

00:00:15.400 and the powers that be who shall be unnamed whose name we shall not mention

00:00:21.540 Funnily enough, when we started talking last time, so just for my listeners and everybody who's watching right now, this is Reverend Nett.

00:00:33.440 We met through Twitter because, well, for me anyways, you have some of the wittiest, most hysterical comebacks to a lot of bigotry in the cesspool that is Twitter.

00:00:49.560 And that's what I'm very much drawn to. 0.99

00:00:51.120 i'm very much drawn to people that can take like a lot of heat usually of stupidity sometimes of 0.99

00:00:58.880 there's some hateful violence in there but nine times out of ten they spell you're wrong 0.95

00:01:05.600 it's the red flag super quick with them and like i'm also not i don't type well like i that's why

00:01:14.960 i do so many videos because it'll come out of my mouth quicker then i'll be able to like really

00:01:18.640 tight, but you're like meticulous with your comebacks. So I appreciate that. What, what's

00:01:25.720 your vibe on Twitter right now? Like what's your, how long have you been doing it? What's your vibe?

00:01:30.400 And most importantly, what's the worst thing a troll has ever said to you?

00:01:34.260 Oh my goodness. Uh, what's my, what's my vibe? I guess I'm just trying to be,

00:01:39.780 I mean, I'm just trying to be myself, which is, which, which is, you know, in part, uh, a priest,

00:01:46.740 Christian, but also a gay, openly gay man, a married gay man, someone with a questionable

00:01:55.620 sense of humor, someone who, I just, I don't want to be sort of the pious, like I'm a minister

00:02:04.440 and I'm just on here to talk about Jesus and to promote my church and to bring people to

00:02:09.980 Christianity. I mean, that would be great. And I do all that, but I want people to experience that

00:02:16.740 you know, in the context of me and all that I am. And I want to, you know, I want people to see the

00:02:22.900 contrast and the tensions between like the guy who wants to make an inappropriate joke and the

00:02:28.660 guy who leads a congregation and both are me, you know? Right. But that's amazing. I feel as though,

00:02:35.680 and again, you and I have already spoken. I mean, I'm not the religious kid in the room,

00:02:40.100 but I feel as though that would be the, I don't know.

00:02:44.940 I feel like that would be the draw for me,

00:02:47.780 but I guess some people are looking for an element and correct me if I'm

00:02:52.500 wrong,

00:02:52.980 but I feel like some people who are drawn to religion are really looking for

00:02:58.560 absolutes.

00:02:59.800 They're really looking for a clear cut cookie cutter.

00:03:03.740 You be that pious guy that you don't want to be necessarily.

00:03:07.100 Cause I need that as my.

00:03:09.200 Yeah.

00:03:10.100 you know, symbol maybe. Totally. And, and, and for those people, I'm not it. Right. And, and,

00:03:16.420 and those people are also, you know, down the way. Yeah. And, and the Venn diagram of those

00:03:23.400 people and the people who troll me is like just one big white circle, right? Like those are the

00:03:28.220 people that have a problem with me. People who aren't interested in religion, they don't bother

00:03:32.600 me. Right. People who, uh, you know, maybe just have a different take on things. It's like, 0.98

00:03:38.720 that's fine but it's the people who are like you represent you your existence questions that

00:03:48.300 absolute and um and i and i can't have that and those are the people that tend to get the most

00:03:55.340 upset with me um it's other christians saying you're not being christian properly whatever

00:04:00.800 which is hysterical because we all know those throwing that many stones are definitely living

00:04:07.340 in a glass house oh yeah sure um you know well but it's interesting like i don't even know

00:04:13.400 i guess part of me it's funny that you say people that darn into religion aren't drawn to you but i

00:04:18.800 i am and i'm not into religion what i am into is good people with amazing character and to be honest

00:04:26.920 have questionable humor um well the interesting thing is is how many people um and at first it

00:04:34.860 used to kind of annoy me or it used to kind of get on my nerves. I'd get defensive. Like people

00:04:39.220 would always start every post to me, whether it's a private message or something public with like,

00:04:44.700 I'm not religious, but, or I don't share your views or I don't believe in God, but,

00:04:49.100 and I would be like, I didn't ask you to, why do you have to tell me that all the time?

00:04:52.820 But I realized it's because that's the assumption most people have when they're talking to

00:04:57.800 a religious person, particularly a Christian, right? That that is going to matter to me and

00:05:02.660 I'm going to judge you for that. So I now don't get defensive when people, but it is interesting

00:05:08.360 to me that people always feel they need to point that out, right? I feel like I would say it,

00:05:13.980 it's so funny. I mean, it depends what the rest of the context of their message is, but I feel

00:05:17.960 like I would tell you that only because it is people like you who are beautiful and intelligent

00:05:25.960 and also have this very, what I feel, profound, profound connection and spirituality to them

00:05:35.980 because it's something I just don't have, but I'm interested.

00:05:39.740 Right.

00:05:40.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:40.500 I'm not interested in religion, but I'm interested in that, whatever it is you have.

00:05:45.080 And we kind of got at that a little bit last time because, you know, there is something,

00:05:51.500 and this is true of anybody who feels something deeply or spiritually.

00:05:54.980 I think when it's like you seem to have, what's the word I'm looking for, an insight into the world I do not have or an insight into being I do not have.

00:06:12.480 And there is some connectivity about that.

00:06:16.140 And that's kind of beautiful, right?

00:06:18.200 Well, and although I don't, let's have an argument now.

00:06:21.820 This is where we totally disagree on everything.

00:06:24.060 But I would challenge you on that. I don't know that you don't have that insight. I think what connects us is that awareness or that recognition of that connection. And we use different language and we have a different sort of film through which or lens through which to see it.

00:06:46.020 But but I think what you see in me is something that you recognize to be true.

00:06:51.440 And what I see in you is something that I recognize to be true, although we may talk about it in a different way.

00:06:56.380 Right. Yeah. I like it. Well, no, I think that's I think that's a very cool way of looking at it.

00:07:03.520 Absolutely. Because people ask me all the time. I mean, I'm on my lives all the time.

00:07:07.400 Yeah. Yeah. One of the big questions they they ask me and they'll say, do you do you are you religious?

00:07:13.900 Do you believe in God? Do you whatever? And I'll say, I'm going to say this at least

00:07:18.900 offensively as I can. I said, I don't really think about it. And it's not that I don't think

00:07:23.980 about it because it's not important for other people. It doesn't cross my mind. They're like,

00:07:28.400 well, what do you think happens when you die? I said, we'll find out. I go, but I'm pretty sure

00:07:32.700 any postulating I'm going to make here and now I'm not much closer. So I don't, but I don't ask.

00:07:39.660 and it's so funny because Anna asks all these big frigging questions all the time like she exists

00:07:44.840 more in the realm of like manifesting and energies and connectivity and all of those things and I

00:07:50.820 look at her like I like the blue one because it looks pretty that's my my husband and I are right

00:07:59.540 like right that but my my husband would be you I don't know what else to say but I appreciate the

00:08:07.100 fervor. Right. And it's just like, I don't know if I, as a kid, I never asked those big questions.

00:08:13.920 You know, like, like somebody asked me, one of my students haven't helped me in my grade seven

00:08:17.660 and eights asked me, okay, where does the universe end? And I said, excuse me.

00:08:27.260 I don't understand. Like, does it go? I go, it's infinite. That's my answer because that's what

00:08:32.260 science tells me. Right. It's infinite. What the hell does that? They're like, what do you mean?

00:08:35.700 and I'm like, I don't know. Go ask the science teacher. I don't, but I never questioned that

00:08:42.960 the big bang. I love people that think like, okay, the big bang theory, let's assume we believe in

00:08:48.740 the big bang theory for a second, that moment where that little thing come from that was

00:08:53.620 expanding and contracting. I'm like, I don't know, nor do I care. And you know what? And I don't know

00:08:59.840 either. Right. And for me, my like faith is not about, I think we talked about this last time,

00:09:04.700 right? Faith isn't about knowing, right? It's not about, it gives me a bunch of certainties.

00:09:11.160 It's, yeah, I mean, you're talking about, it never crosses my mind what happens after death,

00:09:18.700 right? And that was a conversation I was having today or a debate I was part of on Twitter is

00:09:24.020 that whole thing of the number of Christians that I have encountered online who, if I say,

00:09:31.220 I don't really worry about hell I don't know that exists I don't know if anybody ever goes there

00:09:36.200 that's just not on my radar and for them it's like well if escaping hell isn't the point then

00:09:44.020 why do you bother believing like what's the point of Jesus or what's the point of loving people

00:09:49.040 what's the point of being good or kind if it isn't to get out of hell later and I'm like that's your

00:09:53.460 only reason for doing those things I think that might be yeah yeah and I don't get that

00:09:59.520 Uh-huh. There's where we connect, I think. And I see this to people often. I'm like, listen, I am who I am. If there is this big supernatural power that's going to decide who's cool and gets to go different places, hopefully I've done a good job here. But I've just done the job I always would have done whether I thought they existed or not. This is who I'm going to be.

00:10:20.060 But there's your problem, I think, and this is probably true of many religions, not just Christianity, but your lack for need of certainty and what happens after your dismissal of that is the exact opposite reason that most people want to join a faith.

00:10:40.880 Because they want it.

00:10:42.520 They need it.

00:10:43.500 It makes them sleep at night.

00:10:45.400 It makes them feel good about where their loved ones are.

00:10:47.640 it makes them yeah but that's part of i'm sorry i'm totally interrupting you because right ahead

00:10:53.400 um but that's you know that's that's what i have a problem with in like in politics and so you see

00:10:59.880 the same thing in religion right it's like let's create the the thing that we want you to be afraid

00:11:04.840 of we'll create the fear and then we'll tell you here's the answer to it or here's what's going to

00:11:10.920 save you from the thing we've told you to be afraid of and you know like that that's that's

00:11:16.520 hugely manipulative and an abuse of power. And I think, yeah, I don't want, I don't vote for

00:11:24.860 people like that in terms of politics. And I don't want my Christianity to be about that. Like,

00:11:30.140 let me tell you everything to be afraid of. And then here's the answer to it.

00:11:35.360 Yeah. And I'll sell it to you. Right. Yeah. I think, yeah, because it's true in politics and

00:11:42.280 in religion, I think people, life is chaos. Life is uncertainty. And nobody enjoys that.

00:11:53.360 Unenjoyable life, right? What's that stupid thing everybody has in their fridge, like make plans 1.00

00:11:58.400 and watch God laugh or something like that? Yeah. If you want to make God laugh, tell him your 1.00

00:12:03.060 plans yeah yeah yeah so but but those ups and downs and uncertainties of life are just very

00:12:11.340 anti whatever we've built like we want this structure i want to know what's coming next

00:12:16.440 everything i do is strategizing to make sure i'm secure and i'm insulated to any sort of ripple

00:12:23.000 effects of that yes so when when you walk through life not necessarily skip there's nothing to be

00:12:30.540 scared of as a particular thing because you never know. The real scary part is you don't know. It

00:12:38.140 could be your job, your relationship, the environment. It could be a car. Anything could

00:12:42.640 happen in so many moving parts that you're constantly, it's that complete and utter unknown.

00:12:49.300 So when somebody comes along, religion or politician, and says, this is the thing,

00:12:55.320 but don't worry, honey. I'm going to take care of it for you. Just pray on this Sunday or just

00:13:02.680 vote for me this fall and coming Tuesday. And I got you, right? It's a created sense of fear,

00:13:12.380 a directed fear. I'm going to make the weirdest comparison, a directed fear to make us feel safe

00:13:18.580 from a thing that doesn't matter to us at all in order to mitigate the rest of the fears that we

00:13:25.140 have in order to push them aside. Yeah. And the, and the, the problem, I mean, that's a problem

00:13:31.260 in itself, but then added to that is not just, here's the thing to be afraid of, but here's the

00:13:36.400 people to be afraid of. Here's the group that's responsible for the problem or the fear. So it's

00:13:43.360 like, I wouldn't even have such a problem if Christians were just like, Hey, you know, we 0.91

00:13:49.360 hate satan the problem is is we hate satan and those people over there are the servants of satan 0.80

00:13:56.000 and those people over there are manifesting satan that's my problem hate satan but stop assuming

00:14:01.560 that it's the guy that living next door to you that votes for a different party or you know it

00:14:07.560 doesn't have the same sexual or gender identity as you like that's the problem or sam smith who

00:14:13.220 dresses up. Yes. So, and this is such a weird comparison and I don't mean to be disrespectful

00:14:28.780 to anybody that was involved in this. Cause it's not what the point is. It was, it's the

00:14:34.660 distraction. So 9-11 happens. 3000 people are killed. Four planes go down. People are, I remember

00:14:42.740 where I was. People are losing it. Nothing is quite as scary as that level of uncertainty.

00:14:49.340 And I know acts of terrorism happen all over the world all the time. It doesn't happen here. It

00:14:53.820 doesn't happen in North America. Shakes people to their core. And then what happens is we go

00:14:59.220 looking for Osama in Afghanistan and nobody can find the six foot six man. Nobody knows where he

00:15:07.980 is. School shut down. People stop shopping. People stop going to work. Everything, right?

00:15:17.340 And then I feel like, and this was brilliant politics, if not horrific, catastrophic cause

00:15:23.920 and effect. I feel like Condoleezza and George, maybe Colin Powell, sitting around going,

00:15:31.520 oh, we got to do something about this. We can't have this unknown, this thing we can't find

00:15:37.900 and we can't attack. It can't consistently be a thing. I know. Saddam Hussein has weapons of

00:15:45.640 mass destruction. I'm laughing, but it was brilliant politics. And to be honest, even 1.00

00:15:51.720 brilliant social theory. Because it created something tangible, a man in power that we've

00:16:00.060 had issues with before. It created a country to go into, to rescue, to win, to, you know,

00:16:08.500 and, and then there we were for 20 years. Well, yeah. And, and it, it creates, it creates unity

00:16:16.780 within the country because nothing, I mean, I, I, I learned this when I, when I first moved into a

00:16:23.040 house in university with a number of roommates and there was always that one roommate that the

00:16:27.020 rest of us can't stand right i mean nothing brings uh unity faster than having a common enemy and so

00:16:33.000 and it also is a deflection from all the problems we're having ourselves some of which we are

00:16:38.940 responsible for but look over there you know so i think it's yeah and i mean and that's why i i

00:16:47.580 sometimes my students and i talk we talk about these kind of concepts and i you know whatever

00:16:52.060 and i said i really do think that independence day had a little bit of a you know that movie

00:16:57.900 seen that movie oh yeah yeah but the but the interesting part about that movie is

00:17:03.900 you get a big bad external enemy and all of a sudden the world unites

00:17:11.420 behind the united states because it's always the united states right they got will smith

00:17:16.540 yes um but that you're seeing that like online right now with you know and and everything that's

00:17:28.860 just just been happening um with the nashville shooting but but it's that it's that need for

00:17:34.060 and i find i'm you know i'm constantly going on about evangelical christians because for me

00:17:39.820 they are the ones who, not only the only ones, but that right-wing evangelical fundamentalist

00:17:46.560 kind of approach to religion is what I think, you know, it's an insult to my faith. It's an insult

00:17:53.060 to what I actually believe. And so I'm often in opposition to them. And I find that their need to

00:18:00.380 look like the persecuted ones, right? Their need to be the victims that someone is attacking,

00:18:07.560 right so it it's kind of like it's kind of like the reverse of what you're talking about with

00:18:13.360 9-11 it's like instead of finding something out there to attack it's we are the victims we're the

00:18:19.500 ones being attacked everyone else is the enemy and I'm like how do you get that when you have 0.76

00:18:25.180 so much power politically and culturally you are the dominant Christian voice in the media 0.88

00:18:32.200 You have incredibly wealthy megachurches, and you are literally controlling the law right now.

00:18:41.360 How are you persecuted in any way other than there's some people that actually oppose you and say you can't have everything you want?

00:18:50.280 How is that persecution?

00:18:51.980 Yeah.

00:18:52.180 Right?

00:18:53.580 I don't – that's a huge question.

00:18:56.340 I think when Reagan really bolstered sort of that movement in the United States and really sort of solidified it and united it in order to get him elected and get him to be as powerful as he is, you were seeing, I would expect, a very downward turn of religiosity overall.

00:19:21.440 Come the 70s and 80s, I'm assuming the United States, as well as Canada, is becoming more and more secular.

00:19:30.420 Meaning, not that people don't necessarily believe in a God, but people are going to church less.

00:19:35.960 People are going to synagogue less.

00:19:38.180 People are living their lives less in a religious sort of significant way.

00:19:45.380 Yes.

00:19:45.720 You have divorce becoming common in the 70s and 80s.

00:19:51.440 You have unwed parents totally fine with it. 0.89

00:19:55.560 You know, you have flower children with their bellies painted with, you know, you and then in the 80s, late 70s, 80s, homosexuality is now legal. 0.88

00:20:07.640 You you now start seeing more and more prominence of that. 0.52

00:20:11.520 You start seeing pride. All of these things that represent a lack of control.

00:20:17.260 um and again a lack of control scares the hell out of people a lack of structure scares people

00:20:24.660 because what i find fascinating is how quickly all religions line up with the evangelicals

00:20:31.620 somehow do you know what i mean like in toronto i'm often blown away at how many religions

00:20:39.600 will still back let's say the separate catholic school board yes because at least they're standing

00:20:46.680 for morality which means yeah they're because at least they're against those very things that 0.99

00:20:52.000 you're that you're talking about represent a lack of control i'm fine you have muslim neighbors 0.82

00:20:57.000 saying no we like the catholic schools you have jewish i'm like what really okay all right so 0.93

00:21:04.340 it's this again us against them and i and i do feel as though and this is i i could be way off 0.93

00:21:12.260 base here. Cause, and then we're going to speak a bit about Tennessee and, and, and those kinds

00:21:16.560 that event and sort of what it's shaken loose. Um, I think that the more we progress and I could

00:21:27.580 be way off here, but the more we progress, the more we admit to each other, there's nothing

00:21:32.820 really certain. And the more we admit a lack of certainty and heaven forbid, we admit a lack of

00:21:38.920 certainty along gender and sex lines which is like the foundational bedrock of what everything 0.52

00:21:46.100 the more we admit that the more terrified everybody become because they don't know

00:21:54.040 they have no structure anymore and if they have no structure telling them who to be and how to be

00:21:59.140 and where to be then everything feels chaotic even though by the way people it was chaotic yesterday

00:22:05.900 You just were self-delusional. And I mean that in the most loving way. We were all self-delusional enough to think, but if I just hold on to this thing, it'll be fine. Right? Do you get that? Do you think that's part of it?

00:22:22.480 Yeah, no, I definitely think that people want, I mean, people want structure, but it also depends on where you fall within the structure, right? I mean, what I always find interesting is that people, how often people will kind of rise up against an oppressive hierarchy, only to replace it with another hierarchy, but now they are sort of on top of it rather than below.

00:22:48.760 And it's like the whole idea of like, what if we just got rid of the hierarchy altogether instead of a different one? And, and that's, yeah, that's, that's what I, I often find interesting is how quickly, I mean, you see this, you see this in the gay community, right? With the whole LGB, but not T, right?

00:23:07.820 Or the whole, you know, I'm a white gay male and I see this in my niche of the community a lot is how quickly once somebody like myself has, you know, social, you know, is safe socially, you know, we make enough money, we're accepted, the laws protect us.

00:23:34.260 And all of a sudden, we kind of become part of the status quo. And we have no problem with seeing others being oppressed in the very way that we were fighting against. That always really saddens me, how quickly people sort of forget the experience of being on the outside, of being oppressed, of being without power. And then when they have that, it's like, you know what, it's fine. Actually, the way things are is fine. It's like, no, no, there are people experiencing what you were experiencing.

00:24:03.360 what about them so that yeah we all want that safety of the structure we really do we want to

00:24:11.780 be in the circle you know sometimes i talk about being in the circle being in the bubble and as

00:24:16.600 soon as you get pushed out of the bubble you you can see it clearer but when you get pushed out of

00:24:20.900 a bubble you kind of create your own bubble yeah you know you create your own bubble of of people

00:24:25.320 that accept you and people that love you and in a community whatever that community is and you

00:24:31.360 insulate yourself against against other communities in order to give you and to feel

00:24:39.040 strong in your identity in opposition to this bubble but as soon as you're feeling super strong

00:24:43.920 in this identity it has to be in opposition to things so that's why in the lgbt and i for the

00:24:50.880 love of god i wish we could come up with a shorter acronym you do yes because i i'm totally i i totally

00:24:56.560 yeah well it's that whole you know alphabet soup thing i mean when people say that

00:25:02.200 usually as a derogatory you know way of putting down the lgbtq community um i'm like but i kind

00:25:11.100 of agree like and always there's there's always more letters that you left out and i don't want

00:25:16.000 to leave people out but how many letters can you remember we're almost at 26 i think i mean i and

00:25:23.840 And I say it sometimes in TikToks and stuff like that.

00:25:26.720 And after I say it, I'm like, did I say it right?

00:25:28.720 I don't even know if I said it right.

00:25:29.760 I don't even know what the latest right is.

00:25:32.920 And so I understand sometimes, 1.00

00:25:34.820 especially coming from the straight community

00:25:36.240 where they're like, guys, can we just...

00:25:38.560 And I think it's a little bit funny.

00:25:40.460 I mean, I've heard the alphabet mafia. 0.62

00:25:42.460 I think that's hysterical.

00:25:45.080 I also don't have a lot of problems.

00:25:49.440 And this is because, you know,

00:25:51.140 we've spoken about this a bit.

00:25:53.840 I've never really faced me personally, significant, really like hatred and violence.

00:26:01.140 I haven't come face to face with that.

00:26:04.060 And so I think my sense of humor gets to stay a little wider.

00:26:08.280 Yes, me too.

00:26:10.520 Because of the privilege I've managed to have.

00:26:15.440 And, you know, so I understand that.

00:26:18.240 And I don't mean to be disrespectful to people that have gone through, you know,

00:26:21.700 um hell and back so to speak uh their identity and because of who they choose to love

00:26:28.180 but i i still feel like humor is such a it's such a better way to cut through it sometimes

00:26:37.160 if you can manifest it right well and that's the challenge like that is the challenge that i always

00:26:41.660 find on social media is that on one hand do i want to leave myself open to you know the constant

00:26:47.400 abuse and, you know, sometimes even violent threats, you know, no, I want to block those

00:26:53.480 people. You know, I want to mute those annoying voices that are constantly, you know, what about

00:26:58.980 Leviticus, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, I think to myself, stop asking me about

00:27:06.300 Leviticus. I think we should get you that shirt. Well, yeah, like, like I, oh, I didn't know about

00:27:11.400 that verse and now that i do i will completely change my whole life um but but but i but i i

00:27:18.280 think about how for my own mental health and for my own safety and for and also for those that

00:27:24.200 follow me i don't want a lot of the you know those to see that on my on my feed right but i also don't 0.98

00:27:31.960 want to create a little echo chamber where it's just me and a bunch of liberal you know uh gays

00:27:39.960 uh and and there's i have nothing pushing back or making me you know everybody's in agreement with 0.85

00:27:45.000 everything i say i don't want that either so where is that balance i think what is your line out of

00:27:49.800 curiosity i don't block just so you know my line is like i don't i don't think i've ever blocked

00:27:57.560 anybody on twitter which is hysterical heaven forbid people are going to run to my twitter

00:28:02.120 now and say i'll see how exactly that is a challenge i've been blocked like lives of tick

00:28:10.360 tock did it blocked me jordan peterson blocked me oh me too yeah so like i've been blocked by people

00:28:17.240 which is hysterical because i'm never i never am violent i never swear i'm never aggressive

00:28:23.160 at the worst of it i call them hun like that's the height of it um but i don't i'm

00:28:32.120 And the only time on TikTok I've ever blocked anybody is in a live 0.60

00:28:36.460 when they, for example, think it's fun just to consistently say the N-word.

00:28:41.760 I'm like, dude, can we stop? You're seven. Stop it. Stop it.

00:28:46.340 Okay, block.

00:28:47.120 Or somebody is violently threatening.

00:28:53.280 Usually not even toward me. It's toward everybody else.

00:28:58.100 What's your line on Twitter?

00:28:59.380 um at first a long time ago um i had a very i had a very strong sense of you i am not blocking

00:29:07.620 because that is not what jesus would do um and uh yeah every once in a while i still get caught up

00:29:14.160 with like trying to be like jesus and um yeah no and i and i because i felt like well no however

00:29:20.560 strongly we disagree you i i i support your right to have that opinion even if i don't agree with

00:29:27.440 it but then i just i found my own when i started getting a lot of followers and then and then of

00:29:35.120 course what happens is everything you tweet gets a lot of you know it's easier to go viral when

00:29:40.000 you've got tons of followers because you've got all these people that will retweet you right

00:29:43.200 and the more attention your tweet gets the more attention it also gets from the trolls right and

00:29:47.840 then you get on certain people's radars um and and that's when i started experiencing like not just

00:29:55.520 individuals disagreeing with me but like yeah just like all day and and and not and really

00:30:02.800 abusive violent threatening kind of stuff that's when i was like i don't i can't have that i can't

00:30:10.880 see it and i don't want other people seeing it um so that's when i started blocking but i do block

00:30:16.080 people for not for disagreeing with me not for annoying me not for saying things i don't like

00:30:21.920 but for when they attack me personally or are using my um platform to attack others

00:30:29.680 right and i see that that's a consistent thing um then yeah because you're not gonna you're

00:30:34.720 not gonna enter into conversation with them and change their mind on anything

00:30:38.480 all you're doing is allowing them to continue to use your platform to promote hate so i block that

00:30:45.360 but i find meeting is a lot more helpful because then they can they don't know their blog but

00:30:50.160 but they'll continue screaming into the void and you don't have to be bothered with it.

00:30:54.140 That's kind of funny, actually. Have you ever taken down a tweet?

00:30:59.900 Oh, yeah.

00:31:01.060 And can you remember one that you took down because it just got too much and you're like,

00:31:05.120 OK, I'm going to take this down?

00:31:06.700 Yeah. So what, a month ago at the beginning of March when we had International Women's Day.

00:31:13.180 And so, you know, I was tweeting a whole bunch of, you know, supportive of women type tweets.

00:31:19.280 And they were all like, I know, I'm so brave, so brave.

00:31:23.660 And I believe women exist, Jamie.

00:31:29.800 And but and then and then so I often tweet early in the morning.

00:31:34.700 That's when my brain is fresh.

00:31:36.180 And so often I'm still even in bed and I'm tweeting.

00:31:38.500 And then I was getting up ready for work and I thought, you know what?

00:31:41.000 I've tweeted about a whole bunch of stuff about women, but I didn't acknowledge that

00:31:45.800 trans women are women.

00:31:47.220 Right.

00:31:47.360 yeah so all i did was put up a trans women are women and didn't think anything of it and oh my

00:31:55.880 goodness nothing nothing i have ever tweeted and it wasn't even my tweet it was just a meme right

00:32:02.000 i think i know what you're talking about actually yeah and nothing i have tweeted in the 10 years

00:32:09.140 i've been on twitter has garnered me so much hate so quickly and a lot and most of it from

00:32:15.340 the Christian right. Because not only am I wrong about that, and not only are trans women,

00:32:22.580 trans people awful, blah, blah, blah, but how can you support this and say this as a Christian and 0.98

00:32:28.380 as a pastor? So all of a sudden, I'm a fake pastor. And then they go into my bio, and they're 1.00

00:32:34.320 like, well, of course he is. Look, he's got a husband. He's gay. He promotes all kinds of

00:32:39.560 weird perversion so of course he'd be behind this and and I took that down because it just

00:32:45.500 I couldn't respond to all the hate and there were some things that I was like I don't want that there

00:32:51.020 without a response and I don't have time to respond but the other thing is is a year ago

00:32:56.080 I lost my goddaughter uh Charlie who is trans um and she died by and you know and and the

00:33:07.080 The attacks against not just me, but against the trans community, I couldn't help but take that very personally and think of all the hate that that she had, you know, taken in that led to her decision.

00:33:24.360 And so I took that down because it was the only way to sort of stop that that whole train.

00:33:30.860 but i felt bad because then it i did also get some some push back on that too um not only from

00:33:38.540 the trolls that were like oh so now you don't stand behind your convictions you're you're a 0.95

00:33:42.280 coward but also the trans community saying oh so like are you with us or not you know 0.98

00:33:48.280 but yeah first of all i'm horribly horribly sorry for your loss that's just 0.90

00:33:56.720 uh how old were they uh she was uh 16. yeah

00:34:07.760 yeah

00:34:10.340 i look and she and i just want to say this she she had the most supportive family she had um access

00:34:23.120 to support and to resources and to things that most like a lot of kids going through this don't

00:34:30.340 have and even with that she couldn't she couldn't deal with the the trauma and the hate you know

00:34:38.100 that in the world around us um so i can't imagine what it's like for people who don't have

00:34:44.040 supportive homes and and the resources that she had access to but it just makes me even more

00:34:50.620 like, of course I would be an ally, but it's personal for me, you know?

00:34:56.320 Yeah. It's just such a, and again, I think it's tapping into that fundamental for a lot of people,

00:35:11.580 the need for this to be unshakable yeah that sex needs to be needs to be unshakable this is the

00:35:20.980 thing that that can't falter and change and and and once we allow that everything will unravel

00:35:29.120 yeah and i i look at those people and i don't i have zero comprehension of of understanding

00:35:37.760 why. You don't think, like, I have spent way too much time trying to see the argument,

00:35:45.760 the underlying argument, any vestige of it, only because I want to sit down and talk them out of

00:35:51.880 it, right? Like the Matt Walsh's and the Ben Shapiro's and the Jordan Peterson's and these

00:35:57.720 men that have these significant platforms and are spewing vitriol everywhere. And if I could find

00:36:06.040 the thing the thing that you know that that they're trying to um they're that they're trying

00:36:16.080 to hold so desperately onto and assuming for a minute it's not just they're horrific individuals

00:36:24.980 assuming for a minute there's there's something that's in their brain that says i can't let go

00:36:30.360 of this and to tap into that psychologically and i know i'm asking for freaking miracles i'm

00:36:35.460 asking the right guy um i just feel like these are the people that have to have you know and

00:36:43.720 because i'm i'm in i mean i'm not in shapiro's i mean uh peterson's comments because he won't let

00:36:49.000 me but i'm in matt wash's wallace's comments all the time yeah i've seen that today not that i think

00:36:55.040 i'm going to change his mind but i think there could be a handful of people and i also know

00:37:00.640 there's a lot of allies in his comments, but I think there could be a handful of people that might

00:37:05.820 maybe possibly read something that I've said and go, wait a minute, wait a minute, maybe I'll take

00:37:13.540 another look at that. Because a lot of people are like, Joanna, why do you engage with them? Well,

00:37:17.280 I'm like, I'm not trying to engage with them. I'm trying to engage with the hordes of people

00:37:22.000 that follow them that maybe, possibly, probably have zero connection to the community, zero

00:37:31.040 lived experience with anybody outside of their bubble. And the only information that they're

00:37:37.240 consistently getting is, you know, are from these individuals. And I can include Candice in that,

00:37:44.460 and I can include a lot of different people in that sort of onslaught. And they're really,

00:37:49.540 really tapping into that hatred and and this is where they're really going to put it to the floor

00:37:56.480 because all of a sudden they're talking about kids right yeah everything's about protecting

00:38:01.440 the kids now it's all about the kids is it is it yeah because and as we were you know going to talk

00:38:11.020 about earlier you have this horrific event um i'm going to be very careful with my wording because

00:38:17.360 youtube there's certain words you can't say um by the way the unalived one that's when we have to

00:38:24.480 sort of change our vocabulary because they they won't allow for some reason that word regardless

00:38:29.520 about how you say it oh really okay i don't understand here's the thing about censoring

00:38:37.360 vocabulary we just there are other words that that are then used that mean the same thing that

00:38:43.440 that will trigger the same way, I don't, you have to see context. That's what I don't understand

00:38:48.040 about a lot of social media. If we don't understand context, we have to be able to use the words,

00:38:52.960 right? I had a video get taken down because it was my coming out story. And I said gay way too

00:38:57.600 many times, I'm pretty sure. And they took it down for hate speech. I'm like, against myself?

00:39:04.260 Well, and it went to review and they still took it down.

00:39:10.180 Anyways, so we have this awful, awful event go on in Nashville.

00:39:20.080 Three nine-year-olds and three employees of Covenant School. 0.57

00:39:25.420 And immediately, well, relatively quickly, they find out that the individual happens to be or identifies as he, him, sort of, I think in their initial stages of their trans kind of identity.

00:39:42.820 Again, it's very hard to know because not a lot of information is out.

00:39:47.080 And the right took this and ran with it as sure as the day is long for, you know, it is now the trans community committing a hate crime against the Christian community. 0.57

00:40:03.600 And they're, I mean, that is a Christmas gift to them. 0.62

00:40:07.460 like that really is it's it's the you know um and everything else is off the table everything else

00:40:14.660 is off the table and i don't know if you've seen they've gone through like different shootings and

00:40:19.140 gone look this person was non-binary this person and it's just like oh my god so if this is what

00:40:25.620 we're gonna do right now white straight men aren't gonna come out on top well and and yeah and you

00:40:33.460 You know, as I said to this one person today, like they were like, oh, because I shared this meme about, you know, like, oh, things that didn't kill children today, drag queens, banned books, Statue of David.

00:40:44.640 Right. And and the and the guy was like, oh, I noticed you didn't put transgender people on there. 0.67

00:40:50.420 Oh, because one did. And I went, I said, first, okay, so one, do you, are you that concerned about all the cisgender male, white Christian men that dominate the school shooting and the mass shooting group? 0.72

00:41:06.420 group. And two, that the shooter didn't kill them with their transgender identity. They killed them 0.85

00:41:14.800 with guns. So, you know, like anything we can talk about or focus on other than what the actual

00:41:21.480 problem is, right? And the problem isn't all transgender people or even that person's 0.99

00:41:30.180 transgender identity. That wasn't the problem. Maybe it, you know, as we've talked about,

00:41:35.920 who knows what their experience of that school was, who knows what their experience of their

00:41:41.500 transitioning was, and what supports they had or didn't have. But the point is, they walked in

00:41:48.140 there with an assault weapon that they were easily able to get, though they were under doctor's care

00:41:53.880 for emotional disorders and there's no red flags there's no laws to put up red flags and that's the

00:42:00.800 problem and no one wants to talk about that problem so thank god this this shooter has given

00:42:07.260 us something else to focus on as well as making the christians again going back to what i said

00:42:12.960 before the persecuted you know victims you know are are are people less victims is it less a tragedy

00:42:21.820 if the children are not identifiably Christian? 0.55

00:42:25.260 What if they're Jews in a synagogue?

00:42:27.720 What if they're Muslims in a mosque? 0.98

00:42:29.180 What if they're gays in a nightclub?

00:42:31.080 I didn't hear that kind of rhetoric around the victims.

00:42:36.740 Of course not.

00:42:37.640 Right?

00:42:37.940 Of course not.

00:42:38.580 Yeah.

00:42:39.460 Now, now, let's say, I try to always,

00:42:45.280 even when it makes me want to throw up a little bit in my mouth,

00:42:47.440 be overly fair.

00:42:49.260 So if I was the left and I knew about a guy that walked into the Orlando gay bar, right, and shot up the place, that's a hate crime.

00:43:01.540 Yes.

00:43:03.140 Can we at least talk about how this is or isn't a hate crime?

00:43:10.980 an individual walked into a christian school

00:43:17.080 was it purposefully shot up because they were christian or just because it was the school that

00:43:25.940 they attended because if they walked in and purposefully did it because they were christian

00:43:31.140 then yes yes that is a crime yeah um but the fact that they went to that school the fact that they

00:43:38.620 have pain associated with that school, seemingly understanding. We don't know the full picture.

00:43:46.900 That's the interesting part, right? And that's the part that that's the, the subtext that nobody

00:43:53.120 wants to talk about. And the fact that if I'm going to talk about anybody walking into any

00:43:59.780 crowded anywhere and shooting up the place, they're not okay. They're all not okay. I don't

00:44:07.040 care what your skin color is. You're oriented. You are not, there is zero ability to be that

00:44:14.180 they consider you that I would consider them to be healthy. Also, I mean, there's lots of cases

00:44:20.280 of like just one-on-one premeditated violent acts where I'm like, you're not healthy. You're not

00:44:25.140 okay. You sit at home and you come up with a plan and you execute this plan. I've often felt like

00:44:31.800 they're all, you're all not okay. Something needs to click in your head. I never could

00:44:37.800 understand the line, to be honest, between, you know, temporary insanity or insanity, please

00:44:44.760 and murder. I'm like, as soon as you cross that line to me, you're all not okay.

00:44:49.420 Yeah. And that, you know, and that gets tricky because, you know, for me that a lot of the,

00:44:56.720 the rhetoric becomes about, you know, well, they're mentally ill, right? Okay, but not all 0.91

00:45:02.820 mentally ill, most mentally ill people don't do this. And, you know, statistically, a person who

00:45:09.600 is mentally ill is more likely to be the victim of a crime rather than the perpetrator. My problem 0.65

00:45:15.240 is, okay, even if we want to talk about this is a mental health issue, and there needs to be better

00:45:20.580 resources, and there needs to be more help given to those who are struggling, so they don't get to

00:45:25.420 this point why are we why do we only have that conversation after someone's after a whole bunch

00:45:30.340 of people have been killed right you know where is the march the christians marching for for mental

00:45:36.240 health resources any other time yeah well and i mean and it's also they've also taken a hard line

00:45:43.660 you know talking about the trans community and talking about it is a mental health issue and

00:45:47.780 it's even diagnosed as such right gender dysphoria is a diagnosable mental health issue now 0.96

00:45:54.740 the treatment, they just don't like. They think that it should be a diagnosable issue, but the

00:46:02.200 psychiatrists and the, you know, they just want to make money. So they're doing all these

00:46:07.820 unnecessary surgeries. I don't, it's ridiculous, but that's the slant they take. They run with 1.00

00:46:15.040 that mental health issue still. What I think's funny is that, and I did a video about this

00:46:21.460 a couple of days ago is that anybody thinks it's one thing. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly.

00:46:28.880 You know, is it, you know, a lack of healthcare in the United States? Yes. Does that include

00:46:33.740 mental healthcare? Yes. Is it a lack of funding and care for children? Yes. Is it the guns? Yes.

00:46:40.740 It can be more than one thing. There's a whole boatload of blame that we can spread around.

00:46:46.800 um it's just that everybody's so quick to say well it's not my thing whatever whatever my

00:46:53.860 whatever I like in society it's not that it's not that you know I think about teaching and I think

00:47:00.260 about how hard my job is and especially to recognize kids because they hide it so freaking

00:47:07.420 well to recognize kids that aren't okay yes yeah you know I often think of it like everybody's had

00:47:14.700 an animal that's sick and when an animal's really sick they go away yeah they hide they hide they

00:47:22.620 pretend they hide their i had a cat i'm gonna cry i had a cat that had like zero kidney function

00:47:29.960 and right up until we had to have him put down like right up until that moment i i never would

00:47:36.920 have guessed and other than the fact he got skinny that's what they do and i feel like kids do that

00:47:42.060 unless you're paying real, real close attention.

00:47:45.420 And how the hell can you pay real close attention

00:47:47.320 when you have a school of 2,000 kids?

00:47:49.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:47:50.960 You know, how do I notice that that kid's daily ritual

00:47:54.240 of sitting down and playing video games with his friends,

00:47:56.640 that didn't happen today.

00:47:58.980 And just that didn't happen today.

00:48:01.440 And all of a sudden, something in my head would be like,

00:48:03.300 mom's going to make sure they're okay.

00:48:05.540 But you can't, and I realize we can't be perfect

00:48:08.320 But we can pour money into lowering class sizes, making smaller schools, giving more teachers, giving more, all of that kind of thing. 0.98

00:48:20.960 But make no mistake, that's not excluding getting rid of AR-15s. 0.98

00:48:27.200 I called it an AR-15 one time. 0.99

00:48:29.100 Holy shit. 0.99

00:48:30.420 I'm like, is that the point that I don't know the names of my guns? 0.99

00:48:33.800 Well, and, you know, after Sandy Hook, right?

00:48:36.580 The only thing, the only thing that formally changed was formalizing, you know, drills in

00:48:43.920 schools so that kids learned how to hide or fight or flee. And I'm like, that's our response. Like

00:48:51.440 there's nothing else that can possibly be done to mitigate this situation, except teach the kids

00:48:57.540 how to hopefully survive a shooting better because the shootings are going to keep happening.

00:49:02.140 right and that's what that's what just drives me up the wall it's like you like you said there's

00:49:08.080 there's a there's a lot of different factors and none of those factors are being addressed

00:49:12.460 at all do you think it's because just like the beginning of our conversation

00:49:18.400 our answer my answer to this kind of systemic problem involves a boatload of money a lot of

00:49:26.980 different factors and it's going to take time. Whereas if you believe the other guy, the other

00:49:32.840 people, the other side, it's about a bulletproof classroom, a guard or a police officer at the

00:49:39.480 front of your school and Bob's your uncle. Yeah. Right. The guy with a gun is always going to be

00:49:46.440 able to stop them. And that's so not true. It's a good, clean, simple, because the right loves to

00:49:54.860 do simple, simple answer to a very, very complex problem, which is always the problem of the right

00:50:01.800 and the left. Yes. We go on and talk about things in depth with nuance and shades of gray or

00:50:08.300 whatever. And the right goes, don't worry. I'm putting a guy with a gun at the front and a gun

00:50:12.420 at the back. See if anybody gets in. Yeah. And everybody's like, oh, well, that seems dual.

00:50:17.620 That's a good idea. Meanwhile, that was quick. We're done now. Yeah. Fantastic. Put on big

00:50:23.620 brother like is that i guess that's the bottom line right the bottom line is the simplicity of

00:50:30.080 the message and it gives the illusion of safety the pretense yeah of security and stability well

00:50:38.640 and it would require it also requires people of different you know uh different views and different

00:50:46.380 expertise to talk to one another and and that's not happening and and i think a bit another big

00:50:52.540 part of that, and this is, this is a legacy of the right as well, is that, what's the word I'm

00:50:59.480 looking for? The skepticism or the suspicion around expertise, right? You know, you don't

00:51:05.800 know more than I do. And it's like, no, actually, a psychiatrist does know more about mental health

00:51:11.500 than you do. No, actually, people who've studied this know more about, you know, gun statistics

00:51:18.660 and shootings than I do.

00:51:20.820 People who studied internal policy

00:51:23.960 knows more about that than I do.

00:51:26.480 And this idea that we can't trust the experts,

00:51:30.440 well, then how do you have,

00:51:31.600 how the hell do you have a conversation

00:51:33.320 between the right people

00:51:35.600 to come at these complex issues

00:51:38.580 from all the different angles

00:51:41.080 that have to be covered?

00:51:43.880 It's very interesting that you say that

00:51:45.560 because you're 100% right.

00:51:46.640 it never has been so true as it is today i mean it's it's a it's a ramification of the internet

00:51:52.800 it's really antithetical to what we were just saying people want structure people

00:51:56.720 want security people want all of this but they don't want it they don't believe the experts

00:51:59.920 anymore what right yeah wait a minute wait a minute so who's it who's then put in charge of

00:52:08.080 the the structure like people who have no credibility no credentials no education

00:52:14.560 no expertise at all they just have very strong opinions and they're willing to represent other

00:52:20.960 people with strong opinions i think they just put people in charge in their heads people are given

00:52:27.200 the expertise given the sort of notoriety or the the supremacy of ideas if they come up with

00:52:34.320 simple easy relatively cheap idea that doesn't really mess with their lives so much

00:52:40.400 Again, COVID is an amazing example of this, right? They fought against masks. Listen,

00:52:48.160 you can have a legitimate conversation about vaccines and efficacy and blah, blah, blah. Sure.

00:52:53.920 I'm not going to pretend to understand it. I'm not an immunologist. Having said that, the mask,

00:53:01.440 I just, I never, I didn't, I hated them. I hated it. I didn't want to wear it. I didn't have to

00:53:05.520 wear anymore i took it off with glee and then i got covered very

00:53:16.080 it's because mask was lowering your immunity that's why yes i went to an arcade i i know the

00:53:23.360 moment it happened i went to an arcade i took a friend for his birthday and it was there we got

00:53:29.360 food. They had poutine. I said, Oh my God is the great. I didn't, I had a hot dog. I did not wash

00:53:36.900 my hands before I ate. I stuck my finger in the gravy and licked my finger. And Anna looked at

00:53:42.820 me and she said, what did you just do? And I'm like, what? She's like, it's like, you just licked

00:53:51.240 the entire

00:53:52.280 you might as well

00:53:54.760 I'm like

00:53:57.300 oh you're so dramatic

00:53:59.420 and like

00:54:00.060 were you dramatic when you were going

00:54:07.400 through go

00:54:07.800 she was so serious about it

00:54:12.980 I was trapped in the downstairs bedroom

00:54:15.260 I couldn't go anywhere 0.58

00:54:16.500 I was online shopping like a psychopath 0.99

00:54:19.120 she would come in the room first of all anna doesn't cook so it was really touch and go for 0.88

00:54:29.120 me for a while but she made me she's like i'm gonna make you soup i said okay dude she made

00:54:34.620 me the whole can with doubled whatever so it's a pot of soup and then she poured it into the popcorn

00:54:42.240 bowl and she handed it to me she's like baby i made so she comes in the room like this 1.00

00:54:50.220 and she has she goes hold your breath so i can't breathe so she comes in like this and she hands 0.53

00:54:56.820 me i go what the hell is this she goes hold your breath i said okay she walked out and i'm holding

00:55:03.180 this but i go what am i did you give me a spoon she goes no no just drink it i said 0.50

00:55:08.960 it's a popcorn bowl. She goes, but Joanna, you haven't eaten. I said, well, I'm not going to

00:55:14.960 eat all meals out of this bowl. By the way, it was tomato soup. It's only so many tomatoes you

00:55:22.440 can drink. But you know what? To bring it right back to where we started, I think, I mean, this

00:55:33.420 is this is what i deal with online um and why i think people struggle is because they want some

00:55:40.260 they want simple right they want straightforward and this is what you are and this is the box you

00:55:47.060 fit in and when you don't that that freaks people out that's absolutely um anna just walked in from

00:55:54.360 her um i i didn't think she was home did she bring a bowl of did we bring up the bowl of

00:56:00.820 she she she nursed you through covid and this is how you thank her i could never look at tomato

00:56:15.620 soup again oh my god okay and on that note um thank you so much this has been an amazing

00:56:26.560 conversation um and i want you to come back i want to come back i never know where these

00:56:32.060 conversations are going to go but they're always fun right for those at home who will not be named

00:56:37.340 let us get through all of this tonight so now you never know how it's gonna pan out

00:56:43.440 thank you guys so much for listening and reverend and thank you so much for coming

00:56:49.120 and uh i hope you come back on the show and for everybody listening i will see you next week same

00:56:55.020 bat time, same bat station. Dismissed.

Unlearn16: Class is in Session - April 04, 2023

The One Where Rev. Dan and I Fight The Trolls and Dogma (Hi Kevin Smith)

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Transcript