Unlearn16: Class is in Session - The One Where Viva Frei and I Debate the Power of a Teacher

00:00:00.000 class is in session hey everybody and welcome to unlearn 16 classes in session guys today today i

00:00:09.440 have a fight ready to go i think we have a throw down fight no we don't we actually we actually

00:00:15.200 discuss incredibly well um you guys maybe know him as viva fray from twitter he has a pretty

00:00:22.720 significant presence there he has a significant podcast that where does that stream all over like

00:00:29.920 I rumble YouTube locals. And then I and then I snip and clip and put it to put it to Twitter.

00:00:36.700 It's all over the place. Really. It's it's genuinely all over the place. But what we found, I think David and I have found this nice little, I don't know, this nice place of we disagree maybe on a lot more than most, but I like it.

00:00:53.900 And I think we do it honestly and we do it intelligently.

00:00:57.840 And I think hopefully that's the kind of dialogue people want to hear.

00:01:03.180 I was, I was, I was talking about it with my wife where I,

00:01:06.340 we were saying like, we can disagree.

00:01:08.800 And I don't get the impression that you're,

00:01:11.340 because there are bad faith actors out there.

00:01:13.260 I'll say on both sides, genuine bad faith actors.

00:01:16.440 And I, and, or who are malicious in intent,

00:01:18.600 deliberately trying to mislead trolls.

00:01:20.560 um and then there are others who are legitimate and sincere in their beliefs which i i and my

00:01:25.920 wife is a good judge of character as well have no doubt you are and i think it's when you have

00:01:30.160 these people talk that you can i i don't think we disagree on all that much there's some fundamental

00:01:35.980 stuff that we do disagree on but then you find out how much you do agree on but that's a dangerous

00:01:40.520 thing joe because what ends up happening is the base that thinks we have to you know fight with

00:01:45.440 the nail say how can you agree on these things you're you're joining the enemy you're controlled

00:01:49.080 opposition whatever but uh we're gonna be in for another one tonight i forget what the latest

00:01:53.000 twitter exchange we had is but i'm sure i'll remember and we're gonna i can't remember it

00:01:56.680 right now um what i find interesting and what i find you know i found interesting about our

00:02:01.320 conversation i mean we talked for three hours guys if you if you haven't heard our conversation

00:02:06.200 for the love of god i'm gonna put all of his links in the in the bio so you guys can click

00:02:10.120 on them and go find it but we talked for three hours three hours and could have gone could have

00:02:16.200 another hour easily easily um and what i was anticipating i'm not gonna lie was definitely

00:02:24.380 because i'm like well now my face my username has sort of been put you know on rumble has been put

00:02:32.820 on these other platforms that i don't necessarily frequent and has been put with your considerable

00:02:39.500 body that follows you i'm like i'm bracing myself for the onslaught and you know what i got none

00:02:46.160 of it. Joe, I'm telling you this, the fear is the fear. The reality, generally speaking, is much

00:02:53.160 different. Now, for people who are your subs, your fans in your realm of the interwebs,

00:03:00.400 probably think that I'm some sort of wild radical extremist. I mean, I was described as like alt

00:03:05.020 right on Wikipedia until they corrected that. I've been sort of demonized by W5CTV. And I think a lot

00:03:12.420 of people think especially if they only know me from twitter they must think i'm a wild radical 0.99

00:03:16.600 can i swear asshole oh i'm okay no yeah no it's fine uh a-hole bunghole um and then and then you 0.99

00:03:23.820 must you have a discussion with somebody i i uh yesterday or the day before i think it was 0.99

00:03:28.880 yesterday had on my channel uh kareem assad who is a an attorney out of toronto uh she does a lot

00:03:35.560 of reporting she's i guess you say left-wing like she doesn't like the conservatives i think but is

00:03:40.140 fair in her assessment. Right. And then some people from her crowd saw our interview. She

00:03:45.300 popped on for 15 minutes. And then I see on Twitter, oh, I thought Viva was a total a-hole 1.00

00:03:50.020 from his Twitter feed. But is that, you know, and I was like, well, but this is the problem is we

00:03:54.920 need, we feel the need to reduce people to like one dimensional aspects to deal with a complex

00:03:58.960 individual to either write them off, demonize them or lionize them. And things are much more

00:04:03.520 complex than that in real life. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think, I think that's the,

00:04:08.680 the fundamental key of everything is that everything is very complex. Everything is a

00:04:14.400 three-hour discussion. Everything is, you know, contingent upon all these multiple factors that

00:04:21.400 when you boil it down to just a catchphrase, sure, you get a lot of people behind you screaming

00:04:25.580 bloody murder, but you don't get to anything important. All you get to is division, anger,

00:04:31.520 hatred for what? That does zero people any good, no matter what side of that fence you're on,

00:04:36.540 right? But I think today, so today we're going to talk about something that obviously is close

00:04:42.860 to my heart and we kind of got at it a little bit on your channel, which is, and it's funny

00:04:48.600 because I just did a TikTok today, kind of talking about something that was going on in Florida,

00:04:54.140 is talking about how we create a healthy educational system. I'll sort of frame it

00:05:01.520 this way and you can sort of throw in caveats if you want a healthy education system with teachers

00:05:07.700 with parents with administrators like people who are external to that the bureaucracy that let's

00:05:13.080 say creates the curriculum and creates the expectations and and how you move through

00:05:18.160 public education um and how you create a balance of all that is that i say the way i synthesize

00:05:26.480 it is where is the line between a teacher and a parent and i think a lot of the conflict that

00:05:31.060 we're witnessing right now is because of the blurring of that line or in some senses

00:05:36.840 destruction of that line where teachers say we have the communist phrase you know like

00:05:42.300 it's our kids their children are the children of the community and not of the parents 0.80

00:05:45.940 whereas others say damn no teachers are going to have a very delineated

00:05:50.220 role in my child's development and the rest is left up to me and the question is where is that 0.83

00:05:54.800 line. Where's that line? And obviously some of this got started clearly from what books go into

00:06:02.160 each classroom. That's a big thing, you know, book, taking books out of the classroom, what's

00:06:08.500 allowed to be in curriculum, what's not allowed to be in curriculum, at what age is it allowed to be

00:06:12.260 in curriculum. And then we are obviously also talking about pronouns and acceptable time

00:06:17.980 periods in which you're allowed to speak to that. So where's the line for you?

00:06:24.800 can i start with this i think the line used to be blurred a long time ago teachers used to be

00:06:29.160 able to hit kids it is well it's actually a decent point um in that the line i had a great

00:06:35.980 teacher that would throw things at me when i was in the back row i got real fast oh no my father

00:06:40.960 growing up used to say how he got the ruler on the knuckles i mean it was i you know i don't know

00:06:46.740 what the line is where the line has been drawn and whether or not there has always been something

00:06:50.760 of an overlap in this Venn diagram. And everybody always says the best teachers are the ones that

00:06:57.280 are confidants that you can go to when you can't go to your parents and you have your family ties

00:07:02.060 type moments. I think the issue is where it becomes a problematic violation is where it

00:07:08.020 crosses over the lines of things that were hitherto sacrosanct. The funny thing is the line

00:07:14.200 between physical abuse and sexual abuse has always been a special line in America. Violence

00:07:20.640 has always been tolerated, but sexuality has not. And so the idea that a teacher might spank a

00:07:25.420 student or smack a student is less offensive of a violation, at least I presume back in the day,

00:07:30.980 than sexualizing a kid. Religion and sex, I think, have been things that everyone says keep away.

00:07:36.660 But there's clear laws that say you, I mean, there's no relationship between teach, you go

00:07:43.000 to prison, you sleep with a student, you go to jail. That's not, that's crystal clear. Because

00:07:49.840 think what you're going to get at is something very different and that's where we're going to

00:07:52.800 disagree but it's interesting you called it a venn diagram and i've been a teacher for 20 years and

00:07:58.880 it's absolutely event there as much as i am not a parent there is no way you can get around being

00:08:09.200 a parental figure but i will say this if we look at child development what you have to understand

00:08:17.280 is kids care much more so kids care about their parents and then they come to elementary school

00:08:23.120 and they do care about their teachers they care about their teachers to about grade five

00:08:27.600 and then we know they stop psychologically right they they start to care about their friends

00:08:34.320 i don't matter anymore in the big picture a little bit i try to impart knowledge teach them history

00:08:41.760 but they really turn to their friends and they become much more dominant and much more

00:08:46.320 important. And that's who they listen to. And that's who they confide in, which is the scary

00:08:50.640 part. Cause you have a bunch of 14, 15 year olds walking around confiding in each other about

00:08:55.120 things that are terrifying and very adult and very dangerous. And they're not telling their parents

00:09:01.800 and they're not telling their teachers because a lot of the times they won't, they know.

00:09:06.660 And I make it very clear because I don't, the thing about being a teacher, the scary thing

00:09:12.140 about being a teacher is, how do I create a safe space where if a kid's hurting, 100% I need them

00:09:18.600 to come to me? Absolutely. And I don't think there's anybody out there who would say that

00:09:23.140 if a kid is getting harmed and hurt or abused in their home, that they shouldn't have places they

00:09:28.740 can go to and say, this is what's happening. My job at that point, though, is to pick up the phone,

00:09:36.420 right? That's my job. My responsibility and my legal responsibility is to pick up the phone

00:09:41.100 and involve child whatever the version of child protective services is in in the event of physical

00:09:48.220 abuse or you know demonstrable psychological abuse yes but back it all the way up to the

00:09:52.700 beginning and this is where i think the problem is where you said you know i'm not a parent but

00:09:58.640 i'm a parent type figure or a parental figure sure see there is a very material distinction

00:10:04.680 between an authority figure and a parental figure. And now that I have to think about it in real

00:10:11.560 time, the difference would, well, it is an authority figure would be someone who is in a

00:10:15.920 position of authority that is fundamentally not a parent. And then a parental figure would be

00:10:20.960 one in which you are substituting someone who is not a parent for the relationship that ought to be

00:10:26.160 only between the child and the parents. And so, I mean, what types of things would this materialize

00:10:30.680 as. I don't know. I'll have to come back to that bookmark in a second, but I do think this is where

00:10:35.500 the problem arises is that you have a lot of teachers and not all and no pointing fingers

00:10:40.760 who confound the two and say, undoubtedly authority figures for children. That's what

00:10:45.960 a teacher is supposed to be. That's what a principal is supposed to be, a coach,

00:10:48.400 all these other things. Someone from whom a kid learns, comes to for discipline and maybe life

00:10:53.640 lessons, which is fundamentally different than a parental figure where we always typically tend

00:10:58.720 to regard people who get into relationships with others where they use them as a parental figure

00:11:02.580 as dysfunctional relationships where they're trying to accommodate for something that is

00:11:06.440 missing from their lives through this relationship and so they view their partner as a parental

00:11:09.620 figure you know as opposed to a partner so question yes as a parental figure how would you

00:11:15.980 because we're trying to define terms now by excluding other terms it is it is an authority

00:11:22.160 figure that is not a parent okay so what is a parental figure what would that be to you

00:11:27.720 a parental outside of the people that give birth to okay because it like like try to give it a bit

00:11:33.440 more span no no for sure i mean because i i am not one to adhere to the belief that a non-biological

00:11:38.440 adoptive parent is any less of a parental figure than someone who's given birthday there's a

00:11:42.120 different connection that unfortunately i you know adoptive parents can probably never have but that

00:11:47.620 doesn't undermine the relationship what is it i don't know i i try to think of the things that are

00:11:52.160 only for a parent and a child to discuss uh well typically i go to i go to the things that you're

00:11:59.160 not supposed to discuss at parties religion and politics so i i think it is well then so you would

00:12:04.760 be against hold on because that's important you would be against texas mandating the the um

00:12:11.540 10 commandments put on a wall in every school i well okay so i'm i'm i'm nuanced on this as well

00:12:18.700 because I do appreciate the Judeo-Christian aspects of a society that this Western society

00:12:24.980 is built on certain Judeo-Christian values. In a public school, the Ten Commandments.

00:12:30.000 Well, that's what he's talking about. Every public school in Texas put up the Ten Commandments in

00:12:34.200 every single room. You know what? This might be my own, what is it called? Motivated reasoning to

00:12:41.180 work my way around it. I think you can listen to a lot of the stuff from the Bible without having

00:12:45.440 a religious aspect to it. And so the 10 commandments, I think are good rules of life.

00:12:49.740 And I don't, the first of the 10 commandments, don't kill. Wait, the first three are all about

00:12:56.400 belief in God. Oh, I tell you this, I have no problem with that. I got to go look at the 10

00:13:03.040 commandments now. I've ordinarily, I'd pull up the screen. God, don't blasphemy. Like the first

00:13:08.660 three are just about belief in God, be afraid of him, be reverent of him. That's kind of the first

00:13:14.380 three because i looked them up after they were going to put them on because everybody knows the

00:13:17.820 other ones right yeah don't kill don't cheat don't steal uh sure i am the lord need a religious

00:13:23.280 doctrine to teach that in class um in a public school in a secular society uh i would have no

00:13:31.920 problem with it not being required in a western in a judeo-christian western society do i have a

00:13:38.220 problem in public schools uh with reference to god i can tell you i don't now the only question

00:13:43.660 is going to be why I do not. Because I think it's cultural and not fundamentally religious.

00:13:48.100 And so it's not like someone who's trying to convert a child to Christianity by virtue of

00:13:54.440 having the Ten Commandments. It's a cultural, philosophical gesture more than a religious one.

00:14:01.320 What's the difference?

00:14:02.300 Well, I mean, one I think is to pay homage to the founding principles of the nation.

00:14:08.860 One nation under God, I have no problem with it. I don't consider myself to be

00:14:12.600 a religious person interesting i it is it is more of a massive problem with it i just i feel like

00:14:21.600 it has no it has no space it has no space in the public system does should have no space in our

00:14:26.000 government we are a secular nation our founding principles there are a lot of things that we are

00:14:30.400 founded upon that we have let go of because we know the damage and the destruction and all of

00:14:36.000 the things associated with that if we are going to have freedom of religion you cannot have freedom

00:14:40.740 of without freedom from and freedom from religion means i don't walk into my classroom every day as

00:14:47.300 a student as an impressionable student and think whether i'm christian and jewish or muslim or

00:14:55.300 atheist or baha'i i don't care what you are walk into that classroom and see a big framed poster

00:15:01.620 of the things that i'm supposed to believe in because that's what this country used to be based

00:15:05.540 on. And we might as well call ourselves what we are, which is still a little bit theocratic,

00:15:13.240 a little bit still based in those religious underpinnings that we have been saying forever

00:15:18.700 that we are shedding. They shouldn't be able to form law. They shouldn't be able to form 0.69

00:15:23.180 curriculum. They shouldn't be able to inform people's lives and people's morality.

00:15:28.800 Well, but I mean, that's, I would say that's sort of factually historically incorrect,

00:15:33.440 where even the Charter of Rights of Canada

00:15:35.500 is based on the supremacy of God.

00:15:37.240 I mean, and it's not in a one religion type sense

00:15:40.700 where it's an attempt to convert, but it is.

00:15:43.060 I mean, and these are how the values

00:15:45.020 of Western society were founded.

00:15:46.740 So when you say one nation under God

00:15:48.520 and you have the 10 commandments,

00:15:49.360 it's not saying go get baptized

00:15:51.660 and be a born again Christian

00:15:53.000 or be Jewish or be Muslim.

00:15:54.420 It's saying these were the founding principles

00:15:56.140 of a nation that provided,

00:15:58.100 that created democracy, free speech,

00:16:00.420 the very Charter of Rights

00:16:01.840 that we purportedly, you know, believe in.

00:16:05.040 And so do I think that that's a religious violation

00:16:07.200 or religious imposition on me?

00:16:09.020 Well, I will say no, because on the one hand,

00:16:12.420 you choose to live in a country that reflects your values

00:16:15.600 and not vice versa,

00:16:18.260 choose to shape your country around your own values.

00:16:21.160 And if I decide to live in a country

00:16:22.960 that has cultural norms and values

00:16:25.400 that were born out of this history,

00:16:27.880 it would take a degree of audacity for me to say,

00:16:29.940 well, now you have to go scrub your history

00:16:31.220 because I now find it offensive oh there's a big part okay but there's there's not two options

00:16:36.340 right it's not scrub your history and negate everything we've ever learned no I'm not doing 0.91

00:16:41.380 that I'm not banning a single book up in here I also don't think I also don't think it is suck it

00:16:48.240 up and swallow it because it's only ever provided such great impressive amazing opportunities I mean

00:16:54.480 I think the indigenous population of Canada would have a lovely thing to say about that and I think

00:16:59.020 I think the more that we grow and the more that we expand and the more that we recognize what

00:17:04.600 this world is, and I try to be very respectful for people's religious beliefs. So when people

00:17:09.340 are listening to it, they're going to be like, oh, she hates. No, I want everybody to have a

00:17:13.600 personal faith that they believe in, that gives them comfort, that gives them any connection to

00:17:18.640 whatever they need a connection to. However, we as a society have been progressing away from that

00:17:26.380 for a reason and i think the reason is crystal clear morality and and morality and religion

00:17:32.660 don't go hand in hand because if we start going back to the morality of some religions and what

00:17:37.980 they use religions in order to justify and in order to demand and in order to control and

00:17:44.560 manipulate and indoctrinate we're in some very muddy territory yeah right well i i i don't i'm

00:17:52.020 not convinced that the 10 commandments is a religious first three ones i'm gonna look them

00:17:56.840 up and by the way look about actually i i look them up because i think it is important because

00:18:01.420 it will highlight you know the the importance of having a god-like figure and as the bible says

00:18:07.380 someone taught me this during one of my streams that there's a there's sort of an analogy between

00:18:11.120 god and parents um in that you know for for a certain period of time in a kid's life their

00:18:16.320 parents are basically their gods and need to provide that guidance and that instruction i

00:18:20.860 disagree it's it's it's the truth for good or for bad so they're either good parents and behave

00:18:27.280 because they occupy a god-like figure in a child's life i'm not saying that this was not a this was

00:18:32.000 not a statement how it should be it's just the statement of the way it is prescriptive all right

00:18:35.920 here's the first one says i am the lord thou shalt not have any other gods number two which

00:18:42.740 basically is negating by the way you're negating 11 other religions number two thou shalt not take

00:18:50.120 the name the lord's name in vain we break that one all the time i think it's funny because i

00:18:56.780 would like to i want to know a christian that's followed these you show me that person and i'd

00:19:02.180 like to do a podcast the perfection is not the goal it's the pursuit of and the awareness and

00:19:08.200 the attempt to perfection is not the goal that's what everybody says when they're trying to figure

00:19:14.180 out ways to skirt the ones that are inconvenient no today full crap wait wait number three remember

00:19:21.840 the sabbath yeah well now now sunday lately well no but the funny thing is the the sabbath well

00:19:32.220 the 10 come so now the question is that it'll be it'll be slightly less tenable to say that

00:19:38.200 these are not religious based in a public school there we go in texas um and that's the point in

00:19:45.600 texas is following this up with let's be honest very religious based laws very recently and i

00:19:51.640 don't know a lot about this i'm glad that you're here how did we get off teaching all of a sudden

00:19:55.380 but nonetheless i knew that was going to happen um very recently i read um that they were trying

00:20:01.960 to pass a law in texas or or the next major push is to get rid of no fault divorce have you have

00:20:11.600 you read anything about no i haven't to get rid of no fault divorce so is to get rid of the idea

00:20:18.300 that because i guess in in all 50 states from what i understand again we're in the law of legal

00:20:24.020 tenants um that in order if you want to get a divorce anybody can get a divorce and you do not

00:20:29.640 need to prove abuse. You do not need to prove adultery. You can just be like, dude, I don't

00:20:37.240 like you anymore. I'm out. And anybody can do that. From what I understand, Texas and the GOP

00:20:44.980 in Texas is now trying to push for, and now I'm hearing Steven Crowder in my ear because he made

00:20:50.740 it very clear when he got a divorce, when he's in the middle of it, right? My wife chose to leave me

00:20:55.900 and i happen to live in a state where she doesn't need to prove there's a good reason to leave me

00:21:03.320 so now i can't do anything about it and she can just walk off and yada yada yada well so oh by

00:21:10.620 the way do i just i uh real-time google fact checking is the bill the texas bill uh is dead

00:21:16.360 after failing to get a vote after it let's see it went through it sailed through the texas senate

00:21:20.940 on a party line vote last month received the initial approval among dozens of bills that

00:21:24.400 didn't get all right um where did you get approved then where did you get killed uh i it didn't it

00:21:29.540 seemed that it did not it was among the dozens of bill that didn't get a house floor vote before

00:21:33.320 the midnight deadline so i guess they had a new session coming up um but it's interesting look

00:21:38.060 when it comes to that type of of question um i've also i've come to the point in my life where now

00:21:44.440 i do believe that people need some sort of fundamental guidance in terms of principles

00:21:48.180 and if they don't get it from religion and they don't get it from somewhere else good

00:21:51.800 they're going to get it from somewhere else bad which is where i think a lot of this uh a lot of

00:21:55.580 the problems we're seeing today come from is that people have abandoned what they think is an

00:21:59.460 antiquated need for some sort of spiritual guidance but they don't realize that they still

00:22:03.200 need it somewhere and if they don't get it it's going to cause all sorts of psychological problems

00:22:06.280 you think people need spiritual guidance to say that murder is wrong no no no no no that's an

00:22:11.360 oversimplification i think people need some form of spiritual guidance in order just as as a human

00:22:17.960 condition, that not believing in anything greater than oneself, whether or not you can get this

00:22:24.020 through things other than organized religion, which is where my struggle comes because I don't

00:22:27.620 really believe in organized religion, but I understand the value of it. The good principles

00:22:31.600 of biblical teachings. Can they get it from other places? Sure, you can get it from Aesop's fables

00:22:36.620 as well. The question is, once you stop getting these basic principles of value of morality,

00:22:42.140 um these once you lose a fundamental anchor of uh spiritual guidance you're gonna look for it

00:22:50.580 somewhere else you're gonna look for the leadership you're gonna look for the uh the

00:22:53.900 answers and you're gonna look for the guidance from somewhere else which is why people turn to

00:22:56.660 politics uh people turn to other forms of idolatry and then people also turn to drugs for the to fill

00:23:02.660 the void of what is a spiritual void so i think people need it and if they don't get it we see

00:23:07.460 the problems that we're seeing. All that long way to say, when it comes to things like the Texas

00:23:12.580 law, as I'm a born Jewish person, quite Jewish, can't get away from it. I wouldn't have a problem

00:23:19.500 with it in any event, because on the one hand, I don't find that to be offensively overburdening

00:23:25.720 from a spiritual or psychological perspective. I appreciate the fact that I'm not living in a

00:23:30.040 country that abides by my religious law. And if I want that, I have that option. And to the extent 0.98

00:23:36.120 that I'm living willingly so in a society that was built on certain principles, it would be

00:23:42.980 audacious of me to say, you've got to abandon those because now in my current day of understanding

00:23:48.220 and morality, I take offense with them. And so you change, not me type of thing.

00:23:52.760 Well, yeah. But change happens. Of course, change happens. If change didn't happen,

00:23:56.660 we would still have horrific realities at the foundations of both the United States and in

00:24:01.840 Canada, of course, change happens. Now, having said that, I don't think, again, if we're going

00:24:07.420 to have freedom of religion, religion can't inform law. And the further away we get from

00:24:13.720 the beginning points and the days in which superstition and religion sort of created

00:24:18.800 foundational realities of who we were and what we were allowed to do, the further we get from that

00:24:23.840 means we are developing, in my opinion, a more healthy, and I'm going to take it a step further,

00:24:29.840 a more honest and real source of ethic and morality, because my ethic and morality is

00:24:36.880 not based on what's going to happen to me after I die. My ethic and morality is based on who I am

00:24:43.600 here, how I act in this world, and what's bigger than me. Is it some mystical force that's

00:24:48.960 controlling me or predestining, you know, or is it something that is going to punish or reward me

00:24:56.640 for my behavior after this world.

00:24:59.440 If I'm basing my morality on that,

00:25:02.660 I don't consider myself to be a moral person anyways.

00:25:07.440 Well, I think that's a characterized version

00:25:09.380 of religion and the role that it serves.

00:25:12.600 The idea of heaven and the afterlife

00:25:15.180 and following the rules of God.

00:25:16.920 I know Judaism doesn't speak really about hell,

00:25:19.000 so we're really talking about Christianity here.

00:25:20.820 Yeah, but it's a character of religion.

00:25:22.720 It's like abide by the rules and you'll get...

00:25:26.640 you'll go to heaven type thing uh or you're saying i look to religion if i if i don't if

00:25:31.840 i can't look to religion i need something external to fulfill something that i'm searching for and i

00:25:37.680 think the quest for spirituality you're right i think the quest for spirituality the quest for

00:25:42.400 connection because i think those two things are very very different i think is a a fundamental

00:25:48.560 human conscious desire i agree with you 100 but i don't think that looking to something external

00:25:57.600 to you um is finding the connection that is actually fulfilling maybe for some people

00:26:05.760 maybe for some people but i think the inherent connection the thing that we

00:26:09.840 really and when you and you'll see this when you find people that are like

00:26:15.840 connected to a humanity on the basis of, you can see their struggle, you can see their pain,

00:26:25.860 what you're willing to do for that person who you don't even know, that's the connection.

00:26:30.780 It has nothing to do with something external or above.

00:26:34.340 Well, someone will tell you, all right, well, the lesson of morality and spirituality and

00:26:39.680 inter-human connection that you just fleshed out. Well, I can cite the biblical verse where it's

00:26:44.460 said in exactly that way but through old you know biblical terms sure i'm not saying there's nothing

00:26:51.100 in of course there is something in let's be also honest in every single religious text that i can

00:26:57.260 pull out when i teach world religions you want to know what my kids get to after 12 major religions

00:27:03.180 they get to the end and they look at me and they say we've just studied 12 of the same religions

00:27:08.620 with different outfits and different days off honest to god that's what they say because

00:27:13.660 underpinning wise it's very because it's the philosophy not necessarily the god it's not the

00:27:19.820 scripture no but absolutely but but right now you're highlighting the fundamental primordial

00:27:24.940 human value of religion i agree all 12 you know they have similar principles different practices

00:27:29.900 and then even within christianity you'll have oh you know however many subdivisions 30. the fact

00:27:36.940 that they are all somewhat derivative of similar core underlying principles shows you that these

00:27:42.540 principles albeit materialized in a religious sense are our fundamental human condition principles

00:27:47.820 which is why amazing we do not need the pinup poster of a very late comer to the game why don't

00:27:55.420 we put up zoroastrianism principles it's the exact same stuff if we're worried if we're truly worried

00:28:03.580 hun about people's moral and ethical leanings if we are worried about the directionality of their

00:28:11.180 life why are we so concerned that it's a christian methodology on that wall rather than being

00:28:17.160 concerned with how do we teach values that you and i both agree with no respect um education um

00:28:25.720 empathy um cooperation why why not teach those values why not put those up on a wall does that

00:28:33.360 not make more sense than don't covet which by the way who doesn't covet but i i think we're saying

00:28:40.380 we are saying the same thing whereas you're objecting to the antiquated formulation via

00:28:46.180 the 10 commandments but if you like have that one the rules of a happy household be forgiving 0.97

00:28:50.780 the indoctrinization is what i'm well yeah and i'm saying like you want to put up another 0.96

00:28:56.380 iteration that's a non-religious iteration you're talking about the same thing you just want to have

00:29:00.560 it your way as opposed to the way it's been done since humans have been philosophizing about

00:29:04.480 morality i just want to have it in the way that we're talking about the things that make good

00:29:09.980 people. That's what morals and ethics we're talking about. We're talking about what makes us

00:29:14.520 good in this time, in this space now. You've got to know 50 years ago being gay, you're not being 0.99

00:29:21.620 gay. No, absolutely not. You can't be gay under certain religious beliefs, right? And there's 0.52

00:29:28.700 still lots of places where that's not true. And there's still some states where I'm not going

00:29:32.000 anytime soon. Well, that I think is, you might need to stop reading some news outlets, but

00:29:38.500 there are certainly some countries where as a practicing gay person you probably don't want to

00:29:42.020 go uh is that to say that some of the old religious principles have been outdated you know

00:29:47.400 like stoning your neighbor to death for for for infidelity there are there are some uh is that to

00:29:53.580 say that there are not some which are timeless and and and will last forever there are there

00:29:58.340 are some as well the ten commandments might be more along the lines of ones that are not going

00:30:01.900 to age badly versus stoning your neighbor but flip side and now i just forgot my thought it

00:30:07.240 had to do with religion oh will there be a day when punching a nazi because you deemed a person

00:30:12.700 to be a nazi is going to be a morally laudable thing or is that the product of people who need

00:30:17.000 rules who need morality and find it in places that lead them to believe it's moral and justifiable

00:30:22.700 to punch a nazi that's there's lots of religions and actually i i don't know if it's all of them

00:30:28.680 that believe that sometimes violence is the answer i would need to time and time again with 0.95

00:30:35.660 different religions in different time periods where in which they thought by saving souls

00:30:41.620 they either needed to convert or slaughter and and we don't need to go into that much history

00:30:47.700 to understand that that's the principle um and again stepping out of that for a second and we're

00:30:54.600 going to talk about what morality really should look like at what point having a good discussion 0.94

00:31:00.020 a philosophical discussion in a school about at what point is violence justified damn that's a

00:31:06.340 great conversation that's a great conversation for older kids and for grade threes just joking

00:31:14.460 for kindergarten well i mean even things kids typically understand listen it's so funny we're

00:31:20.800 saying not kindergarten kids but watch who resorts to violence real damn quick it's going to be the

00:31:25.440 kid who stole the crayons and the other kid who wants them back. The lessons have to start there

00:31:31.140 a hundred percent. They just have to happen. And now I also have to be sure not to fall into the

00:31:36.380 no true Scotsman fallacy where, okay, there has undoubtedly been violence committed in the name

00:31:42.240 of religion for the saviors of the individuals. There has also been inhumane violence committed

00:31:46.940 by non-religious or um not even secular but you know godless godless entities so the the constant

00:31:56.520 that we might want to just take away from that is there will be violence the only question is um

00:32:01.300 does that mean that you you throw the baby out with the bath water because violence carried out

00:32:06.220 the name of religion therefore we must you know uh no and that's why i'm never and again i'm going

00:32:11.240 to go back to this. I am never talking about throwing out religion in the sense of people's

00:32:16.860 internal beliefs, deep rooted connection, and it brings them peace and it brings them joy and it

00:32:23.760 brings them a sense of identity and a place in this world. I would never, never, never want to

00:32:28.060 take that away from a person. I, however, do not think it has any place, those particular beliefs,

00:32:35.580 Those particular ideas and that personal belief that they cannot prove nor I cannot disprove, there is no way that that should be sitting at the head of any table in a secular society, whether it be Jewish, Christian, the 18 denominations of, you know, the 30 denominations of Christianity.

00:32:53.780 but then but then this this goes just to the fundamental point is a a what is a secular

00:32:59.220 society versus what is a religious society and the question is going to be is is well a secular

00:33:06.360 society means we're not going to does it mean we're not going to impose anything on you or does

00:33:09.700 it mean that we're going to go scratch off the in god we trust on our pennies and so you know

00:33:14.580 there's a difference between a secular society and a godless society yeah so that and that's

00:33:18.760 where i would say i i still consider it doesn't even have pennies anymore no that that's that's

00:33:23.560 that we'll thank inflation for that soon they're not even going to have toonies it's just going to

00:33:26.960 be it'll be central digital banking currency but no that's that's the question is where i don't i

00:33:32.000 don't view i don't even view that 10 commandments as a religious non-secular element i think that

00:33:37.400 that's our because you have to also understand i don't really care because i am who i am i believe

00:33:44.440 what I believe, and I've grown up in a Christian society, right? You're Jewish, you've grown up in 0.74

00:33:51.440 a Judeo-Christian society. We have the luxury, for the most part, of saying, who cares? It doesn't 0.67

00:33:58.140 really impress upon me. It doesn't really control me. It doesn't really serve to limit who I am and

00:34:05.180 how I walk through this world. Of course it doesn't. Of course it doesn't, because I love a

00:34:09.300 Christmas movie because I can't wait to buy a Christmas tree because I like Easter and looking

00:34:14.760 for chocolate, even though I have no idea how those two go hand in hand. None of that impacts

00:34:20.120 me, but I can be cognizant enough to understand how that ideal, how that power, because we're not

00:34:28.520 just talking about faith here. We're talking about religion. And I think you've discerned between the

00:34:32.880 to how the power of religion is just as terrifying, just as intrusive, just as domineering, and

00:34:41.640 to put it in your words, as the power of too much big government and what they get to tell

00:34:47.520 us and what they get to convince, what, a grade one of, a grade two?

00:34:53.860 We used to, I don't know if you remember this, there was a teacher in Alberta named James

00:34:59.740 Kiekstra.

00:35:00.260 Have you ever heard of him? 0.89

00:35:00.880 Oh, that was the Nazi, the guy who's-

00:35:02.800 There we go. 0.56

00:35:03.280 For those who don't know.

00:35:04.800 The Supreme Court decision.

00:35:05.780 But a lovely piece of our history.

00:35:07.320 There was a guy out in Alberta back in the 90s.

00:35:10.600 I believe it was the 90s.

00:35:11.620 He was a teacher for a solid 10 years. 0.76

00:35:13.660 And every year he would teach that the Holocaust never happened.

00:35:16.540 Or to some degree, it was exaggerated.

00:35:19.160 And he would bring in a stack of books and he'd put them on his desk and he'd teach his grade 10 history class.

00:35:25.100 And this would go on year after year until a Jewish kid happened to move to that part of Alberta, sat down in his class. 0.50

00:35:32.800 Learned his lesson with his stack of books and turned around to everybody going, what the hell was that? 0.59

00:35:38.760 And he goes home to his parents or she, I don't know.

00:35:41.760 And, you know, and all of a sudden it all comes crashing down.

00:35:46.040 That kind of belief system, that kind of structured imposition.

00:35:52.040 I agree with you when we talk about how teachers need to be limited because there needs to be fundamental limits.

00:36:00.920 But I'll tell you what else.

00:36:02.420 I talk about him constantly, constantly, because every kid should know one very important thing.

00:36:08.980 I am your teacher. I don't agree with you that I'm some sort of an authority figure. I don't

00:36:12.900 think that's what makes me a good teacher. I am your teacher. I want you to walk in here every

00:36:18.280 single day, especially in the age of the computer and your cell phone and everything else that you

00:36:22.400 have access to. And I want you to question every single word that comes out of my mouth,

00:36:27.200 every single theory we talk about, every single piece of history that I give you from the textbook

00:36:32.340 that's been pre-approved by the ontario government that's that's the job of a teacher it's not

00:36:39.140 narrowing the scope of that information i would never narrow it so if somebody really wants to

00:36:44.660 talk about that teacher and even more importantly i've had kids talk about those books like talk

00:36:50.580 about how does a book like that get made who backs that who published it how how does it become you

00:36:56.580 you know, this sort of standard of truth. Um, and without those kinds of conversations,

00:37:02.740 which is why, and we're going to eventually get back to the teaching thing. This is why getting

00:37:08.180 rid of any form of literature, any form of history makes me instantly uncomfortable.

00:37:18.160 Back up a bit for one second where you said, it's not because it doesn't affect me that I,

00:37:23.700 you know, I, as if the suggestion is, and this is not a pointing finger, well, it doesn't,

00:37:28.080 it doesn't impact me. So therefore I have the luxury of ignoring it. I look at it a different

00:37:32.580 way. It's, it does affect me. The, the religious history of, of, of a country. I, you know, I'm

00:37:40.200 Jewish. I grew up in a Jewish milieu. I went to, you know, private Jewish school. So that's what

00:37:43.800 I grew up with. If I went and I did end up going to a non-Jewish private, uh, private high school, 0.99

00:37:50.260 LCC, Lower Canada College for two years, where there were fundamental other religious things

00:37:56.280 going on in the school. Whereas as a petulant child, I would say, well, you know, I find this

00:38:01.360 offensive, but I'm in the house of LCC now. I take a more analogous look as being living in Quebec

00:38:09.480 as an Anglophone. And where I say, look, times are changing. It's time to loosen up your language

00:38:14.100 laws. You know, the world is getting westernized, Anglicized. So, you know, stop clinging to your 0.99

00:38:19.140 old French and just get with the modern times. And that's what a lot of people say to say,

00:38:24.280 Quebec, give up your identity. And I might be one of the rare Anglophones who say, look,

00:38:30.120 this is a French province historically. It was built on these principles. This is what made

00:38:34.480 the province what it is today where I live. I can understand the people wanting to impose certain

00:38:39.300 laws to preserve that aspect of their historical cultural identity. And if I don't like it,

00:38:43.320 there's other places for me uh to to to go i i do look at these religious underpinnings which i don't

00:38:50.720 consider to be religious in the religious sense and say look it's a secular society that was built

00:38:54.080 on these principles it is what made the society one in which i want to live and now it would it

00:39:00.300 would be the other way around to say like i have the luxury of saying thanks for building a nice

00:39:03.800 house now i want to sort of destroy the foundation upon which that house was built by saying yeah

00:39:08.420 we've moved past those principles that made this country what it is and now it's the modern time

00:39:13.180 so erase god from the foundation of that country and i say that that's the the privileged luxury

00:39:18.220 um that lacks the historical insight and the you know seeing into the future what happens

00:39:25.040 when you you say it's not a racing history but if you're saying look it's a secular society so

00:39:29.860 start erasing god from um now i can't remember the name for it understand like god on money

00:39:36.940 that's not an old invention uh well when do we when do we put in god we trust on our coins

00:39:42.320 In the United States, it was later.

00:39:46.100 Well, later, give or take.

00:39:47.160 Let me see this.

00:39:47.700 I have to also look up Keekstra.

00:39:49.380 Yeah, yeah, go ahead and look that up.

00:39:50.680 I also think this.

00:39:52.040 I think it's very problematic to talk about the perfect foundations of a country that don't have perfect foundations.

00:40:00.680 I also don't think that our country progressed and is this beautiful place.

00:40:05.080 And I do love living in Canada.

00:40:06.300 And I do like many aspects of the United States.

00:40:09.080 And there's a lot of beautiful countries all over the world.

00:40:12.320 i don't think that it's beautiful because of religion i think it's beautiful because of

00:40:18.400 people and i think sometimes religion got people to certain places and when we don't

00:40:24.240 need the tradition anymore when we're not cleaving to it like it's it's some sort of life raft and

00:40:31.360 using it let's also be honest to discriminate to oppress to control to enslave when we let go of

00:40:40.480 those things and we open it up to what it really is, the beauty of our world, it's us. It's not

00:40:48.880 some supernatural creature that's telling us how to behave. It is people. And this is where we're

00:40:54.060 going to disagree a little bit. I fundamentally believe that people are amazing. I believe

00:41:00.820 fundamentally that human nature is good. I think we can do bad things, but I believe that

00:41:06.880 fundamentally human nature is good. And that's not a religious belief. That is a human, that is,

00:41:13.540 that is a people belief. And I also think that if we're talking about foundations, we have some

00:41:19.380 serious cracks and water is flooding in by the second. I'm not erasing the history of us being

00:41:27.280 a Christian, Judeo-Christian nation. Let's be honest, Christian. I think it's funny when we

00:41:32.100 say we're a Judeo-Christian nation. I think it's real hilarious because I think at some point 1.00

00:41:36.500 the christian powers that be realized they didn't want to exclude and they couldn't really exclude 0.96

00:41:41.860 the jewish population from that lineage but it's not too long ago we were saying crap like 0.93

00:41:47.920 no jew is too many that was 1940 what five oh well but i'll say this hold on i had my thought

00:41:56.040 um i had it formulated uh where you it's it is like the one screen two films where you're looking

00:42:03.200 at certain negative and let's just call them disastrous or immoral parts of human history.

00:42:08.560 And I know that you're thinking slavery, the no Jews is too many. I don't think that was religious. 0.81

00:42:12.480 I think that was more cultural immigrant based. But you look at the darker sides of history,

00:42:19.040 at least in the West and say, well, that you attribute it to religion. Whereas I would say, 0.94

00:42:25.280 I would attribute fighting those darker periods of history to religion.

00:42:29.920 i don't attribute it to religion i attribute it to men using religion to do bad things

00:42:35.200 well but but you know the spanish inquisition okay they're using religion to do bad things

00:42:41.000 it's all about power right well it is it but this is worth it this might contradict your theory that

00:42:46.020 human you know humans are fundamentally good i don't think that they're bad i think that

00:42:48.880 the bad humans cause a lot more damage than the vast majority of good humans how they gain power

00:42:54.560 right and what they use to gain that power and to manipulate that power well now hold on i have to

00:43:01.280 stick to one thought at a time though it's not religion but it is the religious principles i

00:43:08.400 think that actually i don't think they cause the darkest aspects of modern western civilization i

00:43:14.220 think they actually serve as the basis to fight them and so when people say like slavery was not

00:43:18.920 built on religious principles but it was fought on religious principles and and not religion per se

00:43:23.920 because, yes, there's been a lot of bad stuff done in the name of religion.

00:43:28.060 But slaves existed in the Bible, right?

00:43:31.960 The existence of slaves was a natural, you know, and that's one of them, 0.98

00:43:37.340 don't covet thy neighbor's wife, ass, or slave, whatever beautiful language it used. 0.95

00:43:42.920 Those aspects in the Bible were reflecting, and this is what, in my opinion, 0.99

00:43:46.840 a lot of religious texts reflect.

00:43:49.260 A religious text reflects a belief structure of the time

00:43:52.900 reflecting the context of when it was created you know i we talk about jewish dietary laws 0.71

00:44:00.180 those were brilliant they're not brilliant necessarily because god said so they're

00:44:04.380 brilliant because you didn't die that's why they were brilliant well but you get sick and die

00:44:10.920 and joe i mean they're they're they're still brilliant even today when it comes to certain

00:44:15.380 types certain types of food and so again but this is highlighting the value of the religion that

00:44:21.860 you could actually somewhat dissociate from the religion itself. It's highlighting the value of

00:44:25.900 ideas people come up with and humans come up with, and they codify it as a religion in order to

00:44:33.320 promote what they need at that time in that place. Listen, the reason why Texas wants to pass this

00:44:38.260 law is no, it's clear as day. Women file, and if I hear this stat one more goddamn time, I'm going 1.00

00:44:44.600 to lose my mind, what, 75, 80% of divorces. So all divorces, for the most part, are initiated by 0.95

00:44:50.880 women. Texas wants that to stop. Texas wants divorce to stop. They want people to start 1.00

00:44:56.420 having more babies. So they ban abortion and they force people to stay married. Once you've made 0.97

00:45:02.520 that choice, it is no different than fornication under the command of the King. It is the same

00:45:08.940 idea, the same mentality. How do we make sure our population, how do we control our population

00:45:16.620 in order to elevate how many people are having babies, how they're staying together,

00:45:21.540 because that's a better economic unit. We all know this. Divorce sucks economically for both sides,

00:45:27.340 right? Divorce is a weight on the economic system. It is a weight on the stability of a 1.00

00:45:34.940 community. All of that is true. And how do we get back at it? Well, we get back at it by bringing

00:45:41.940 back traditional beliefs and using that to manipulate and codify and indoctrinate, whereby

00:45:50.040 we really need to be talking about the bigger issues of what marriage is, how it happens,

00:45:56.000 how people have kids, what the laws are. Everything of that has been changing for 50 years.

00:46:02.540 Well, I have no knowledge of this particular law, and I'm trying to think of not...

00:46:09.380 It's not a law yet. I'm just saying it was a legal, right?

00:46:11.600 But also, there might be some other very real social reasons for attempting to change that where there might there are certain inequities in the divorce process in the family law process that are fundamentally more unfair and disadvantageous to the male counterpart where you might have divorces for opportunity.

00:46:30.780 i say opportunistic i think every time i've seen it it's a it's a like in most places now we're

00:46:37.100 talking 50 50 50 50 money 50 50 kids 50 50 everything and that's the go-to even when by

00:46:45.020 the way even when we could very easily prove or possibly prove that one parent is and whether

00:46:54.300 it's a guy or the girl, I don't care. But one parent is more suitable, more stable, a better

00:47:04.200 parent. Even when that's the case, even when you have a better parent, the courts aren't allocating

00:47:09.980 that. The courts don't take that into account. Not here, in California, not in Florida, not in a lot

00:47:16.680 of these states. I am not convinced that that's accurate in terms of it being 50-50. I think

00:47:22.400 there's still massive inequities when it comes to custody uh and other issues in the family law

00:47:27.700 and i i'm not the man of sphere i mean there's a lot of people who operate in this sphere

00:47:30.620 i would all be civil too so it would be very different i'm assuming every place you go in

00:47:35.200 the united states right we'd be talking about a a pretty big overpinning of law i'm i'm just

00:47:41.360 trying to think if i had i it's it's i i i'm going to see now i can't remember the name of

00:47:46.060 the person who's been on the channel incredibly insightful a woman she's she was big in the in

00:47:51.420 the men's rights um in the men's rights sphere once upon a time the name will come to me in a

00:47:56.080 few seconds i'm i can't remember it but no but my understanding is that there are massive inequities

00:48:00.300 in the family law court system and perhaps this legislation or this proposal was an attempt to

00:48:04.680 counter that but no bottom line religion aside everyone should be everyone should be allowed to

00:48:10.120 get divorced um yeah i don't understand listen i can get married in a day i should be able to get

00:48:15.160 divorced in the same amount of goddamn time i should be able to sign that if i want to and i

00:48:20.960 should be able to tear it up you know irrespective of fighting about money and kids and all of that 0.94

00:48:25.920 that's different that's different but an actual legal divorce I mean I in Canada in Ontario for

00:48:32.840 example you have to prove that you've been separated for a full year well true no but

00:48:42.260 there's a logical reason for that is that they want to make sure that people don't make rash

00:48:45.360 decisions then go and get remarried afterwards the government didn't ask me to make a logical

00:48:49.400 the rash decision when I got married. No, but there's value and stability of contracts from

00:48:54.820 an entire social perspective. Sure, but when you're breaking a contract and there's clear

00:48:59.200 delineation about what the broken contract looks like, there's not a lot of fighting that goes on

00:49:03.460 there either. You talk about Finley Law in Ontario and it's real simple. What are your assets?

00:49:09.800 What are your debts? Do you have kids? Everything gets divided. You'll have a lawyer that say you

00:49:16.520 don't even need a lawyer it it's that clear the only time you need a lawyer is when there's abuse

00:49:22.260 or there's any of those horrible things or somebody's doing a really good job about hiding

00:49:26.720 assets assets and it's never the women everybody's like oh the poor men hiding look i want to know

00:49:33.680 how many women have hidden houses and money i want to know well these are these are stuff where

00:49:40.280 i would make sure that i know what i'm talking about before venturing into it for the time being 1.00

00:49:43.320 I know nothing. I'm just talking.

00:49:45.080 No, but the idea of having to live apart for a year before you formalize the divorce,

00:49:50.660 you could disagree on policy, but there's a very logical reason for that is that

00:49:54.380 people get into fights, they go through two weeks of badness and then they get divorced

00:49:58.540 and then, oh, we regret it. Let's get it back together.

00:50:01.040 But again, you're asking, I can't believe you of all people are advocating the state

00:50:07.420 to be able to tell me when I can be or cannot be.

00:50:10.140 They're not telling you when they're just saying.

00:50:11.480 yes they are yes they are they're saying no no think about it little girl sit down and have a

00:50:19.340 good thought about it because we know better no no well i don't think that's what they're saying

00:50:23.360 i think the thing is look if and it's left over from the days where we couldn't get a divorce

00:50:27.740 anyway which isn't that long ago or it was really hard anyway yeah but i i don't i don't view it

00:50:33.340 that way as the state saying look i'll tell you when the state is saying look we we understand

00:50:37.520 the nature of heated fights if you're going to get divorced um make sure make sure that it's a

00:50:44.460 definitive decision i i know i have the other thing is agree or disagree with it that's not

00:50:48.560 that's not going to be um that's not going to be my make or break uh limit as to what the government

00:50:52.920 tells me to do that that pisses me off think about this for a second honestly let's think about

00:50:59.900 let's say two people get married and divorced and it's you know it's a disaster and all of a sudden

00:51:04.780 get married one day they want to get divorced the next day boom gone stability to the wind but

00:51:12.140 let's say those two people never get married but decide to have a kid

00:51:17.340 there's the lack of stability there's the rashness and there lies the real social damage

00:51:25.980 of erratic choices and and fly by the seat of your pants kind of behavior that brings

00:51:33.820 whole other living entities into this world, into that dynamic. Which one should the government

00:51:40.060 be talking about? Because I know you're not going to say they should be able to tell people when

00:51:43.600 they can have kids, but that one directly, but that one, we can agree, would directly cause

00:51:51.140 way more harm to this society than the latter. Yeah, but look, I can play devil's advocate and

00:51:56.560 say there's a fundamental difference is that one is the government telling you what you,

00:51:59.880 uh is setting certain parameters once you've entered into a contract and the other one is

00:52:04.360 the government preemptively telling you what you can and cannot do with your body you want if you

00:52:07.660 want to get married and you want to get the government benefits that come along with getting

00:52:11.720 married well what are those benefits but tax tax benefits i i think i think earn more money

00:52:18.260 obviously to see what benefits big tax benefits i get well no i think there are certain financial

00:52:24.480 tax deductions and whatever but the bottom line you can't say look i want to get the government

00:52:28.380 benefits so i'm going to get married but then i don't want the government having any say as to

00:52:31.180 you know there on in that's just the government benefits only last as long as you're married as

00:52:36.840 soon as you're divorced those government benefits cease to exist true but the bottom but the bottom

00:52:42.240 line is you're saying look i i want to adhere to a government uh run program okay well then look if

00:52:49.400 you once you get into it you'll think you'll make sure that you're certain when you want to get out

00:52:53.600 of it again but these are these are not like i don't care about this issue one way or the other

00:52:57.740 I think they all matter. Let's steer it back to where we were in the beginning because I think it all matters because I think the most fundamental thing about all of the things we're talking about, whether you're talking about what people search for in this world, whether you're talking about a stable population, whether you're talking about what the government should and should not be allowed to do and how they should be able to sort of set policy or rules for our life, that all starts with education.

00:53:25.580 And I'm being real clear and real honest. And I'll talk about Ontario because I really can't speak to curriculum in Florida, even though I have talked about books and stuff like that. I'll be real honest. The curriculum and the money that we spend, if we really were interested in stability, if we were really interested in an intelligent, diverse, powerful base population,

00:53:52.320 We would spend boatloads more money on education, and we would not be talking about what a parent gets to decide should or shouldn't be on a reading, possible reading curriculum, because those decisions should be made, and I think this is an interesting conversation, should be made by the people who study it, by the people who have dedicated their lives to it,

00:54:20.440 by the people who have become professionals at it.

00:54:23.680 Just like I don't want a parent deciding

00:54:25.880 what the national policy on medical care should be

00:54:29.860 because they don't know.

00:54:32.020 Yeah, well, I think a lot of people are going to say,

00:54:34.400 despite what teachers think, it's not, teaching is...

00:54:37.380 By the way, it's not just me though, right?

00:54:39.760 Because I don't set the curriculum.

00:54:41.580 Teachers don't set the curriculum.

00:54:43.140 I also don't, and I also don't want you to think

00:54:44.460 this is an attack on you, but there are people...

00:54:46.800 No, no, no.

00:54:47.540 The issue is going to be like,

00:54:48.440 one can accept that there are levels of scientific expertise that might not you know like

00:54:54.860 people who again i'm not comparing teachers to cab drivers but and there's no but you're

00:55:00.820 gonna say like okay well they're the professional so don't tell it he's the taxi driver don't tell

00:55:07.080 him don't tell him how to how to get you home although some you know sometimes he might a

00:55:11.080 teacher you say like i'm the teacher i'm the professional so don't tell me how to teach

00:55:14.620 parent leave it to professionals there's levels of expertise where even and by the way even when

00:55:18.520 it comes to the highest level of expertise like doctors I'm the doctor don't tell me how to do my

00:55:22.180 job that's true but at the end of the day it's up to the it's up to the the the patient or the

00:55:27.100 person to say I don't care that you're the expert I'm going to make my own decision not listen and

00:55:31.200 there's all sorts of agency when it comes to students and when it comes to parents within

00:55:35.200 the educational system what I'm advocating and what I'm saying is is two things number one I am

00:55:41.940 not the professional. It is not just me. That's what I'm saying. I would never ever assume or

00:55:48.960 be so arrogant as to think I know best. What I think is you put people in a room with child

00:55:58.420 psychologists, you put people in a room of academics, you put people in a room who have

00:56:03.800 studied child development and the way the brain works and what they need to learn at which time

00:56:09.380 and you match it to physiology and they come up with a curriculum that reflects that in a real

00:56:14.740 adequate way. And then you have a parent sitting at home going, I don't want them reading the

00:56:20.160 latest Amanda Gorman poem. No. Well, I'll say two things to this. One, that might be a very

00:56:29.820 lofty scientific way of describing the learning process. And that doesn't apply mutandis mutandis

00:56:36.080 to the curriculum, the determination of curriculum. Second thing I would say, I'm not getting my head

00:56:41.240 on my mic here. You're saying, wait a minute, sorry, the first point you're saying that child

00:56:46.860 development and child psychology, you don't think that they tie that to curriculum?

00:56:53.540 I think the science behind the brain development, when certain emotions, when certain processes,

00:56:59.640 object permanence, when that develops is a scientific process. But I would, and maybe I'm

00:57:07.300 not correct in this, but I don't think I'm not correct. I don't think the curriculum is based

00:57:13.300 on the scientific development of the human brain and the, you know, the psychological development

00:57:18.780 of kids. And if it is very tangentially, you know, the curriculum is... Would you appreciate it if it

00:57:24.980 we're more reflective of that uh because we are talking about systems and not and not curriculum

00:57:32.080 and so you know understanding that at a certain age a kid can't do algebra is different than saying

00:57:36.780 this is yeah but um but the flip side is also to this is that historically the schooling

00:57:43.940 institutions have been responsible i mean if we're if we're looking back at like the bad

00:57:48.420 institutions of the past and where certain atrocities have been performed well the schooling

00:57:51.700 institutions, if left to their own devices, don't always come up with the right solutions and don't

00:57:56.280 always do the right thing. And so to say that this is the institution of education, now leave us

00:58:03.500 alone because we're the experts. Wait, I never said leave us alone. I actually say quite the

00:58:08.940 opposite. I say quite the opposite. I would say that a teacher's responsibility and a parent's

00:58:15.700 responsibility, both equally, equally, is to keep that door wide open, keep the communication

00:58:23.920 consistent, keep the awareness of what's going on in that classroom constantly, as well as

00:58:32.160 the parent keeping the teacher apprised of what their kid needs, what they're going through so

00:58:37.680 that we can do our jobs properly. That's the only way education works, the only way. But that way

00:58:43.300 does not necessitate me telling them how to parent and them telling me how to teach. It does

00:58:48.360 say this book is on the curriculum. If you don't like it, that's okay. You can talk to your kid

00:58:54.000 about it. Guess what? You're still the parent. You still have all the power in the world. But

00:59:00.160 for you to say and for you to demand that this shouldn't be made available to other kids in that

00:59:07.180 age bracket at that school because you don't want it anywhere around them, then yeah, I have a huge

00:59:13.120 problem well let's we can always get hung up on the on the gray zone aspect we agree that american

00:59:19.840 psycho should not be uh reading material for a grade sixer never read it but the movie was gross

00:59:26.320 the movie was paled in comparison to the book but we can i say this hold on before we go down this

00:59:32.400 road i will also what what grade level was that who was reading oh no no nobody but i i had a

00:59:38.240 teacher in high school after reading one of my short stories tell me you might want to read you

00:59:43.280 know you might like bready's analysis um and you'll read and how old were you uh 16 15 but it

00:59:50.880 wasn't she said here go do it it was more like you know check with your parents first and my my mom

00:59:55.920 was you know let me wet reservoir dogs when i was in grade five so she didn't care um but like i

01:00:01.680 guess the issue is we can agree on the black and whites like right pornography we can agree like

01:00:07.360 We don't have to have a debate.

01:00:08.580 No pornography.

01:00:10.260 Okay, yeah, but here's the problem.

01:00:12.260 Can you define it?

01:00:13.740 Because Anne Frank got taken out of a school in Canada, in Ontario,

01:00:17.900 because there's a part of Anne Frank, which I didn't even know about

01:00:21.440 because it's been so long since I've read that.

01:00:23.220 There's a part of Anne Frank that is sexual.

01:00:26.560 There's this tiny little caveat that is sexual,

01:00:30.560 and the parents said, pornographic.

01:00:32.620 I want it off the curriculum, and they took it off.

01:00:34.860 Kitchener-Waterloo in Ontario is a situation.

01:00:37.700 I don't understand what's going on there.

01:00:39.620 Is that pornographic?

01:00:41.460 Well, I mean, if it is, I have to go back and reread that.

01:00:45.520 But for example, I mean, let's take an example that's fresher. 1.00

01:00:48.020 Talk about a woman, actually. 1.00

01:00:49.060 I think the implication, the implication was that she was a lesbian. 0.98

01:00:53.820 Or there was talk, that was the, so it wasn't just a matter of, yeah.

01:00:57.320 No, not to that. 0.93

01:00:57.940 I suspect the implication, it was more not that she was a lesbian, but that she's an

01:01:01.040 underage kid.

01:01:01.600 And so this might actually be by Canadian legal standards, you know,

01:01:04.200 depiction of children engaging. And I, I don't remember.

01:01:06.680 I don't know.

01:01:09.960 I know, no, no, I know she didn't engage in it.

01:01:12.220 I have just that example. I don't know offhand,

01:01:14.680 but like to take train spotting, for example, where I was saying,

01:01:18.620 I, one of my favorite movies of all time. And then someone said to me,

01:01:22.240 Oh, I'm sorry. Stop right now. Yep.

01:01:25.320 Train spot.

01:01:26.220 We need a whole podcast and we need to talk about what's going on in your

01:01:30.160 life up until this point where train spotting is your most favorite well no it's it's it's top 10

01:01:34.920 and i went to see train spotting like seven times in the theater the whole thing where we talk about

01:01:38.780 our top 10 movies and pulp fiction is my it's top 10 movies um so i so i i was having the discussion

01:01:45.340 with someone and they said well what about the uh the the cpc in that movie and i'm like in my

01:01:49.920 memory didn't even i haven't seen it admittedly in 20 years yeah yeah it didn't even register and

01:01:54.140 now that would be an example where i would say okay like i can appreciate someone saying that's

01:01:58.680 inappropriate for any levels of school don't show it if you have if you're taking a film class

01:02:02.580 um i can't so and frank i don't remember even what the what the what the part of it was i should

01:02:08.700 have brought it i should have brought it home yeah i just don't know but but the question is this

01:02:12.520 then because it sounds like what you're saying is well who's to say what's what's pornographic and

01:02:16.520 several we can't somebody has to say it though right well i agree but but and between the between

01:02:22.420 you and me we can say look uh american psycho inappropriate objectively if it's on a curriculum

01:02:27.980 i would expect parents to demand to be removed we can agree on that i've never read it is it

01:02:33.020 because of all the blood is there too much that i don't really remember there's sex there's there's

01:02:37.260 access to the face i mean there's like it's it's access to the face yeah that that that reading

01:02:42.380 that's my goodness the movie did not do it justice the movie was teaching it can i tell you though

01:02:47.280 as a teacher the hardest thing that i ever have to do isn't what i think is hysterical because

01:02:53.080 if we're going to start talking about what's appropriate and inappropriate on curriculum

01:02:56.820 let me be real clear nobody gives a crap about violence nobody there is it there is indeed a

01:03:04.880 double standard but i can tell you this did we talk about this when we were live that i i think 0.76

01:03:09.600 i understand the the reason between the two is that nobody gives a crap about violence because

01:03:13.980 very few people are going to be prone to going out and replicating the violence for pleasure or for

01:03:19.560 entertainment the same is exactly not true of sex and so when a kid sees a super violent movie like

01:03:25.660 ramble. I said to you, teenagers need no external drive in order to do whatever it is they're going

01:03:36.700 to do with their boyfriends and girlfriends. I would disagree with you. And I actually think

01:03:41.000 this is one of the, going back to train spotting. I was in the theater alone because I used to go

01:03:46.060 watch movies only alone. And I sat next to somebody who happened to be a psychiatrist.

01:03:49.900 yeah i know so i sit next to somebody who happens to be a psychologist or psychiatrist i forget which

01:03:56.220 and he says what are you watching a movie alone for i said i like watching movies alone and he

01:03:59.880 says what are you watching movies like this for and i said i like this i like i mean this is a

01:04:03.300 great movie he says the problem with watching movies like this is that it conditions you to

01:04:07.560 tolerate and think that the bad things you do are acceptable and tolerable because they're not

01:04:12.700 sorry a thousand percent you believe that violence in movies desensitizes us to violence

01:04:19.620 No, no, no, no. What I believe is that seeing other people's moral depravity exceeding one's

01:04:26.360 own foibles is oftentimes serves as the excuse for the person to say, well, I'm not that bad

01:04:30.440 because other people are worse. And so when it comes to a replicating sexual activity, for example,

01:04:35.740 or being inspired to because you saw it somewhere else, I sure as hell think that if people watch

01:04:40.620 the movie Kids, especially if kids go watch the movie Kids, they're going to say, well,

01:04:43.980 I'm not doing that. So have you never seen Kids? Yeah, I have. That's an old one.

01:04:48.160 that's an old one it's a gross i mean i i i do think when it comes to violence people don't say

01:04:52.880 well i'll i'll i you know beating up the guy is not as bad because at least i didn't shoot him

01:04:56.780 with a with an rpg like in rambo but when they do see like well other kids are doing this type

01:05:01.600 of sexual stuff so what i'm doing is not so bad i think that is behavior that is far more quickly

01:05:05.900 uh imitated to a lesser degree and they could say well i'm not as bad as this therefore it's

01:05:11.260 acceptable i i think maybe i'm wrong and maybe i'm just an old man but i do things i well i don't i

01:05:16.600 don't agree with you but I have two questions yeah I have two questions number one do you think

01:05:23.080 by having it on the curriculum somehow we're advocating the violence more or or especially

01:05:29.940 in this day and world like let's be honest if a 15 year old wants to see a movie they'll go see

01:05:35.920 their parent I don't care who you are even Matt Walsh who has chained his kids to the bow and

01:05:41.000 arrow set in the backyard one day those kids will get out of that house and they will watch

01:05:45.720 whatever the hell they want to watch. And the more that you've kept it from them,

01:05:50.180 I also promise you, this is also human nature, watch what they watch now.

01:05:55.760 Do you think though, possibly, I'm not advocating for American Psycho to be played.

01:06:01.000 Think of more of the nuanced middle ground movies or books that we're talking about, right?

01:06:06.560 Do you think that talking about violence in movies or talking about sexual depictions of

01:06:12.540 people and the way it's depicted and creating an academic conversation surrounding it has value and

01:06:20.140 weight that actually would serve to do quite the opposite of what you're talking about uh i'll say

01:06:25.580 this it depends on at what age which i think is the crux of this but i i always conversation yeah

01:06:31.740 but i i would i would venture to say you know discussions of sexuality um among teachers and

01:06:39.580 students is probably because i teach look i teach grades seven and eight health heaven friggin help

01:06:45.980 me biology but biology is different than sexuality that's right i teach health so when i teach health

01:06:51.180 let me let me describe what's in the ontario curriculum i have to teach obviously stis and

01:06:57.580 and when i talk about stis i have to talk about all the ways in which you can contract them

01:07:02.940 okay so i have to talk about all of the different aspects when people are like why are you talking

01:07:08.140 about anything but intercourse i'll tell you why because grade eights are doing it we we're

01:07:13.740 pretending they're not but they are and that's a part of the curriculum so number one i talk about

01:07:18.540 that number two um i have to talk about um uh consent i have to talk about like that's a big

01:07:26.460 one consent is pretty huge in the grade seven and eight curriculum i also have to talk heaven help

01:07:31.980 me about internet pornography oh well i i think this how do you have that conversation well i don't

01:07:39.540 i'm not sure i'm not sure you're not sure i should i'm not sure i in fact this this sounds

01:07:44.440 even more uh what's the word i'm looking for subversive than i could have possibly thought

01:07:48.540 now i'm thinking to myself okay well kids need to know about stds or stis all right uh that should

01:07:54.840 be that should be parent discussion oh the parents aren't going to do it well uh not all parents are

01:08:00.460 going to be equally as good in the same way that not all teachers are going to be equally as good.

01:08:03.580 But when it comes to making certain types of mistakes with children, I think those are only

01:08:07.060 the types of mistakes that the parents have the luxury or the obligation. You're talking about,

01:08:11.980 look, sex education has been proven time and time and time again to protect, to educate,

01:08:18.400 to reduce risk factors to those individuals. And that is, I can't think of a more important part

01:08:26.520 about education. I would actually, let me see this. Has sex ed decreased pregnancy? Let's see

01:08:37.160 that. Pregnancy. Then we're going to get into another one. Pregnancy rates. Let me see this 0.81

01:08:42.040 here. Or STD rates. Let me see here. I'll have, I don't want to waste too much time here about

01:08:53.300 the national institute of health in the nih for whatever we can trust these institutions for now

01:08:57.940 a consistent finding i love it when you pull up this the nih in this context no i haven't

01:09:02.580 i haven't even read it but i'm just saying this is by the way this is the nefarious effect of

01:09:06.980 having been lied to by the professionals like okay yeah you're like what am i supposed to believe

01:09:11.140 here yeah a consistent finding from observational studies that rely on regression analyses of survey

01:09:15.700 data is that comprehensive i don't know comprehensive sex education is associated

01:09:19.940 with lower pregnancy risks at a later age first sex and increased probability of contraception

01:09:26.020 29 to 31 i don't know if that's ages um i'll tell you i'm gonna look i'm gonna look i would

01:09:33.140 be curious yeah we can talk about it another thing because i think it's important to talk about too

01:09:37.460 um like one of my scariest jobs ever was grade nine health my very first year practice teaching

01:09:42.980 in a, in a room full of 30, 14 year old girls. And, and again, everybody's denying or, or 0.99

01:09:50.780 pretending as though this isn't happening or it's not what reality is. And I'm living in a world of

01:09:56.580 reality in which I want kids educated to their fullest. And I do not believe in any way, shape

01:10:02.320 or form that me educating them on the risks of sex and the risks of unprotected sex in any way,

01:10:09.140 shape or form makes their life worse or encourages their behavior to do immoral and dangerous thing

01:10:16.760 i'll tell you this with when it comes this is where i'm trying to think of a like a distinction

01:10:22.100 that is they're not verifiable but delineate delineated so hard well i know i do i do make

01:10:29.640 the distinction at biology versus um biology versus sexuality now we're going back to what

01:10:35.820 that was and i'm trying biology being how things work versus sexuality being what people prefer

01:10:42.120 and when it comes now look it's all very mechanical i don't want to talk about any

01:10:48.360 sort of preferences i don't want to talk about any of that but if we're going to

01:10:53.380 only talk about intercourse as a means to get pregnant or contract an sti

01:10:59.100 it's dangerous and i'll tell you why it's dangerous okay please and i'll remember my

01:11:04.240 thought. Grade nine girls, 14 years old. I had a question box at the end of my freaking desk

01:11:11.580 where they put at the end of the day, whatever their question was. And I took home this horrible 0.68

01:11:16.460 box and had to open up all these questions and decide how in the hell am I going to answer them

01:11:21.220 the next day? Five of the questions were, if I have anal sex, can I get pregnant if I don't use 0.99

01:11:29.980 a condom. That's their reality. That's their reality. I am not there to champion it. I am 0.99

01:11:42.480 not there to shame them. I am there to make sure these young, very young girls are not putting

01:11:50.120 themselves in a dangerous situation and are not, are understanding the full scope of what's going

01:11:58.340 on in that particular dynamic no but and with that example i'm trying to we're gonna have to

01:12:03.440 get back to the you know online porn and uh the consent issue but um that i'm i'm putting this

01:12:11.320 into my own perspective as to when we did sex ed and our professor's name was mr dixon if you can

01:12:15.760 actually believe that stop it no i swear his name was mr dixon and he taught us sex ed um

01:12:21.740 um i see i cannot i i might be able to fit that within the dichotomy of um biological

01:12:28.940 reality versus sexual preference and say okay fine and how do you have that i mean again age

01:12:35.360 appropriate and then the question is where's the appropriate they were asking where's the end of

01:12:40.440 that discussion that's a great question but i i mean i get like sex ed it's either that or you

01:12:46.480 give a pamphlet or you say we don't talk that i don't think is where people get hung up as much

01:12:51.560 because i again oh i think it is but where do you think they get hung up i think they get hung up

01:12:56.180 when it goes from biology to preference when it goes from what does that lesson look like to you

01:13:00.660 what is preference well i mean actually explain to me at what point anybody would be talking about

01:13:05.060 online pornography uh in the curriculum it talks about that you're supposed to because

01:13:10.400 again if you think your grade seven and eight hasn't looked at online pornography what i don't

01:13:16.200 know where you're living of course they have they've done it with their friends they've done

01:13:19.440 it on their phones, they've done it at their friend's house. I don't care. They've tried to

01:13:23.240 do it at school. The point of it in that curriculum is to say the risks, is to say the lack of

01:13:34.280 authenticity, is to talk about the dangerous caveats that you can go down that road when

01:13:40.680 you're not of age, when you're not supposed to be, right? Because technically you're not supposed to

01:13:45.400 be looking at that until you're 18 but you click the button moving on with your day um so it's in

01:13:51.200 the warning aspect and talking about it in the coming from a perspective of like nobody's nobody's

01:13:58.600 talking about what's on it we are saying look you can get some pretty horrible graphic images

01:14:03.660 and pretty horrible um examples of what sex looks like but to warn them about the dangers of that

01:14:14.280 of not talking to their parents about it?

01:14:16.920 I tell my kids to talk to their parents every single day.

01:14:20.960 Every single day, but I promise you,

01:14:23.140 first of all, the grade seven,

01:14:24.000 they don't talk to me about it either.

01:14:25.740 They don't want to talk to anybody about it.

01:14:27.420 Want to know who they talk about it to?

01:14:29.260 Each other.

01:14:31.200 That's it.

01:14:31.880 They don't talk about their parents.

01:14:33.300 If a parent calls me up and says,

01:14:34.680 Joanna, what are you doing in the curriculum?

01:14:36.440 I will send, as I always do,

01:14:40.080 my entire syllabus,

01:14:42.380 my entire set of notes,

01:14:44.280 my entire, you know, span of what I teach and how I teach it. So they know exactly where I stand,

01:14:52.840 exactly what's in the curriculum. My problem is this. Want to know who the parents are that are

01:14:57.340 the biggest problems? By far, the ones that don't take the time to call. They won't respond to

01:15:03.780 emails. They don't sit down and talk to their kids. And they have never looked at the pages

01:15:09.020 and pages of documentation or syllabi that i have sent them this is now what well i see that i'm

01:15:18.020 thinking to myself as you say this like you talk about the risks of online porn and and by

01:15:23.600 incidentally there's a legal reason why i can think that you have to have these discussions

01:15:27.180 as well because underage kids sending each other nude pictures of each other which they're doing

01:15:31.000 creates massive massive legal problems yeah then the flip side is okay well where do you draw the

01:15:36.240 limit you have to show them an example of what online and not you not you but now and i'm googling

01:15:41.180 at the same time to see where there have been examples of this where they're like well we're

01:15:45.020 showing we're only showing them the pornography so that they know what to look out for type thing

01:15:48.620 and that's i mean that's it's it's i want to know i am sorry yeah in where have they put porn on the

01:15:56.180 tv in school oh well no no what the only story i can read right now is what reason did that teacher

01:16:01.400 go to. Well, I have to find the exact, I have to find the concrete examples because what people

01:16:07.240 always invariably end up fighting over are the, the, the gray zone examples, which people then

01:16:12.300 use to, to, to, to, um, you know, try to erase the rule. But then you read an example of a kid

01:16:19.560 who's reading from a book that was on their curriculum and it reads like soft core pornography.

01:16:24.080 If only for one scene, it's not Anne Frank, but it's one that I think most people would agree

01:16:27.940 with the bottom line is that most people agree with the with the cut and dry black and white

01:16:33.480 examples of too much or too far like you know banning michelangelo's david because it's ding

01:16:40.020 dong showing is too far i think we can all agree on that uh but apparently not for some well but

01:16:45.800 but that that is the problem is that there will always be activists on one end and the other 0.99

01:16:50.780 but flip side um maman what is it my sister wants a penis and you have a you have a children's book 0.99

01:16:59.200 of a kid playing with her brother's penis and it's like and graphically drawn i can we agree 0.99

01:17:04.500 that that's a problem and first of all i don't know the book so i i i won't even bring it up 0.57

01:17:09.740 now but it sounds like but and i don't know what age that's for and i don't know what in context

01:17:14.700 that's been used for. Because the only thing I've seen online, unfortunately, repetitively,

01:17:21.540 is that one graphic novel that everybody has like- Yeah, the BJ.

01:17:26.440 One, yes, right? And they keep posting that on my Twitter page as though this is what's going

01:17:33.480 to end society. Listen, I'm not going to sit here and say we should be handing out graphic novels

01:17:39.200 like that to the grade three kids i'm also going to say this two delusional parents who think you

01:17:46.380 are protecting your kid or stopping them from doing something because you don't want them to

01:17:51.840 see a graphic novel let's say when they're 15 16 years old oh honey yeah but you're not being honest

01:17:58.920 about who kids are what they're doing and what risk factors they're having that's that's not

01:18:03.840 the argument the argument is going to be if my kids are going to do bad things and in sort of

01:18:08.140 Your suggestion presupposes or at least takes into consideration that it is objectively bad.

01:18:12.960 They're going to do bad things anyhow, so it may as well be the teachers that expose them to it.

01:18:16.100 That's a moral distinction, right?

01:18:17.280 So now we're saying our teenagers experimenting with each other, is that a bad thing?

01:18:24.260 And I'm saying I'm not going to make that moral distinction.

01:18:26.880 I am going to want them to be two things, very, very importantly.

01:18:31.140 I want them to have full control and full consent of their bodies at all time and feel empowered by that. And number two, in a very close second, no matter what you choose to do, how you choose to do it, I want you to be 100% safe so you don't die from it.

01:18:48.460 I think those, I am not, I'm not the one imparting morality. The other side is. I am not the one telling somebody what's right or wrong. I'm telling you what just scientifically is.

01:19:00.800 Empowerment with one's body sounds like sexualizing versus biology being this is how it works.

01:19:08.240 When I say empowerment, I mean every single person, and I believe this should be taught

01:19:13.600 from freaking kindergarten, every single person should be told their body is their body. Nobody,

01:19:20.000 not a single person has the right to touch you anywhere you don't want to be touched.

01:19:26.320 And I think that lesson should, every parent should be like, yes, I'll make the flag for that.

01:19:34.400 It's a song, my bodies, my bodies, no one's but mine.

01:19:37.560 You touch your own body, let me touch mine.

01:19:38.820 I remember that from childhood.

01:19:40.360 But we're going to get-

01:19:40.900 But you're taking that away now because they're starting to say, because it can, look, it can extend into like, okay, well, you know, what if, like I have a, my friend's kid is four years old.

01:19:54.000 and every time I go over there, some days he likes me, some days he does not. I always want

01:19:58.500 to hug him hello. Always, always, always. Right? And Anna, my partner, always goes,

01:20:06.720 uh-uh. And I'm like, what? Let him decide. There is something so freaking powerful about that

01:20:14.480 lesson. And that's a lesson for me because I would just pick him up and hug him because I'm

01:20:18.520 just you know but how powerful is that lesson for me to give him and I say it to him do you want to

01:20:27.320 hug me if you do cool if you don't amazing you don't have to but I'm telling you right now you

01:20:35.500 very well know that the majority of people aren't going to be on side with that but I'm telling you

01:20:41.480 you want to stop people with nefarious goals getting at kids you you we all want to stop that

01:20:51.100 right start by giving them power over their own bodies to decide every step of the way yeah

01:21:01.040 no but we are we're talking about two different things at this point in time and and and the the

01:21:06.340 it goes back to the question as to where the line between parents teacher and

01:21:10.180 exists. And then the question is going to be, you teach them biology,

01:21:14.000 you teach them about condoms,

01:21:15.040 you teach them about STDs and how they're, how they're transmitted.

01:21:18.560 And then the question comes up, well, we'll, we'll, 0.92

01:21:20.820 we'll doing it in the butt prevent me from getting pregnant. Well, that's, 0.90

01:21:23.580 that's a, that's a no with a butt or a yes with an and pun intended.

01:21:29.300 The question, the question then becomes day of teaching I've ever had.

01:21:33.460 well and i can tell i i i knew i i think they lied about how they got pregnant this was a

01:21:38.100 my my friends now is how their parents say they got pregnant i think they might have been covering

01:21:42.640 up what they actually did but the but i mean the question is then where does the class end

01:21:46.780 where where does the discussion end even if we say okay fine kids need you know they get to the

01:21:50.620 right age they need to learn about stds and protection fine i think some people are going

01:21:54.200 to say no and here's the most people and here's what i would say honest to god this is how i would

01:22:00.660 structure it. This week, this is what I'm talking about. If you want to pull your kids out of this

01:22:05.600 class, you have a choice to pull your kids out of this class, but you have no control and nor should

01:22:10.880 you have overriding power to pull, change, or adjust curriculum that is necessary, proven,

01:22:20.860 scientific, and based in reality. Go ahead and pull your kid out. By the way, your kid's just

01:22:27.000 going to ask the other kids the next day well but that that doesn't mean it's right that just means

01:22:32.260 that they're just around the the issue is as a parent though i'm saying let's be aware of what

01:22:38.440 reality is and how to address it i think it's hysterical we're focused on books i really do

01:22:43.520 i really think it's funny sorry the focus on the books is a red herring itself because

01:22:48.960 yeah i've i've said to you like they've been they've banned books in southern california

01:22:53.240 ban first of all i always say like you got to use words properly to get out of the curriculum take

01:22:58.360 him out of the curriculum they've done it in southern california nobody complained they do

01:23:02.280 it in florida people complain this is where i think ultimately you know the issue gets politicized

01:23:07.160 where people just lose track of what the discussion is 100 i think most people agree some books

01:23:12.520 inappropriate and would have no problem with it that's why they did it in southern california

01:23:16.600 but even when they did it there other people huckleberry finn for one of them which i which

01:23:21.880 which I think I don't agree with it. But for the cases of, you know, when it's obvious,

01:23:28.560 clearly egregious sex for the sake of sex, violence for the sake of violence,

01:23:32.300 historical classics. Absolutely not. I had a video that I did a history class.

01:23:36.600 Well, no, I went to the Met and I was with my kids and I decided to make a funny video.

01:23:41.320 I called it the penises of the Met where I just like made a montage of all the statues, 0.98

01:23:45.040 penises because there were different sizes there. YouTube demonetized it and confirmed it after 0.84

01:23:50.220 manual review gave it an 18 and over and i was like that's a little puritan but then meanwhile

01:23:54.780 youtube does that and then the same people who you know are ideologically aligned with youtube say

01:24:00.260 how can how dare florida do this and i say look there's a gray zone where people are going to

01:24:04.180 fight over the huckleberry finn because of the use of the n-word and there's a black and white

01:24:08.180 where people are going to agree what an important book what an important book to talk about of mice

01:24:13.280 and men i think of mice and men is another levels we did of mice and men at my school i there's not

01:24:18.320 many books that i have ever read that i've ever seen on any curriculum now i realize there's you

01:24:23.920 know a book in one county in arkansas i don't know i i can't talk about all of that i can only speak

01:24:30.240 to what i've seen and what i've read um and do books and can literature make people feel

01:24:36.800 uncomfortable because of the subject like huck finn and using the n-word makes every and it

01:24:40.880 should make you uncomfortable that at this point should be the point of the book

01:24:45.200 the idiocy is that that's offensive and should be banned because of the use of the n-word but then 0.81

01:24:50.940 you can have wap or you know you can have a takeshi 99 i mean the rap songs which use it 0.98

01:24:56.720 over you know i don't but you got to know this is where i'm sort of on that other side of the fence

01:25:03.820 in the sense that education and censorship do not go hand in hand you cannot have education when you

01:25:11.580 have rampant censorship and in this day and age today 20 years ago we could be having a very

01:25:17.460 different discussion but today oh my god the things the kids will come in and say they watched

01:25:24.180 on their phone i'm like no no there's no there's no question i think the other the issue is also

01:25:31.160 that when it comes to the curriculum and the issue of you know prohibiting books on in the

01:25:36.520 curriculum and parents freaking out over what would otherwise be non-issues it is in the broader

01:25:42.280 context of what the teachers are talking about with kids that have actually no business in either

01:25:47.600 reality science academia and i mean we know what we're talking about here and it's it's it's then

01:25:53.200 you're talking about but then i think you're talking about people doing bad jobs like let's

01:26:00.120 say let's say we agree on a teacher that has completely crossed the line whatever that line

01:26:04.020 is for us. And I'm like, oh my God, that's not okay. I've seen videos of what teachers have

01:26:09.860 done in classrooms where I'm like, they have to be in jail now. Let's agree to that. You cannot

01:26:17.180 build a system of educators where you censor everything because you're trying to avoid that.

01:26:22.600 Because what I also promise you is this, bad teachers, bad workers, bad politicians, bad

01:26:29.660 whatever guess what they're not going to give a crap about it anyways so the best we can do in

01:26:36.020 my opinion as a parent if I was a parent of a kid I'd want to know what's going on in that classroom 0.94

01:26:41.440 every day I'd have constant conversations with that teacher I'd have constant open conversations

01:26:45.700 with my kids but I promise you the parents that are the loudest aren't they're not having

01:26:53.440 conversations with either true now but let's just say like in the clearest of cut cases when the

01:26:58.240 teacher crosses the line you know go to jail whatever uh if one were to find out that a

01:27:03.740 teacher would be you know surreptitiously uh influencing a child to convert religions from

01:27:09.900 say islam to judaism christianity to judaism christianity to islam we would say that that's

01:27:14.920 they should you know teaching religion and aiding a student in converting because his parents will 0.72

01:27:19.800 get mad if they find out are two very different things one crosses the line the other one doesn't

01:27:23.640 I mean, would we be able to agree on that?

01:27:25.540 Sure.

01:27:26.080 Okay.

01:27:26.820 How would I aid a conversion?

01:27:28.660 Oh, the kid says, I need you to teach me about this.

01:27:30.660 What can I read?

01:27:31.440 My parents find out they're going to kill me.

01:27:34.780 So you would say, oh, that's an interesting one. 0.61

01:27:37.820 That's a hard line.

01:27:38.900 It really is.

01:27:39.760 First of all, I wouldn't know enough about religion, but like in that kind of way. 1.00

01:27:43.060 So you're saying that if a kid came to me and their family is Christian and they want

01:27:48.380 to be Jewish and they're like, listen, I really want to be Jewish, but my mom thinks

01:27:51.920 it's horrible.

01:27:52.340 I took your class.

01:27:52.980 you gave me the world religions. I realized I got the wrong one. Uh, I re I'm curious to learn more.

01:27:57.560 If my parents find out, they'll kill me. What can I do to read about converting to Judaism or

01:28:01.560 and what, and, and, and I, and I say, well, you're going to have to ask your parents about that.

01:28:06.900 Well, no, but the question would be, so my options would be, you're going to have to ask

01:28:12.220 your parents about that. Or here's a book to read about religion. Well, there's a third option,

01:28:16.940 which is, uh, the, the parent, the Don, no, the Donnie Darko, which is, I just can't have

01:28:22.120 that conversation with you? I don't know how many of those conversations I have. The first thing I

01:28:28.960 would say to that student, to be honest, if that, if this was a legitimate thing, why are you afraid

01:28:33.720 of your parents? I think we should have your parents in. That's a legitimate, if a kid comes

01:28:39.940 in, no kid's ever done that, right? If a kid legitimately comes in and says, I'm terrified of

01:28:44.420 what my mom will do if I read about Judaism. No, no, no. If I, if I want it, I want it. You know

01:28:49.300 where I'm going with this is the bottom line is where people the same thing is true for where

01:28:53.940 you're going to get to my question is are you afraid of your parents because that's the most

01:28:59.440 important question because otherwise I open the door for a big conversation I open the door for

01:29:04.160 conversations with parents with students with doctors with anybody they want to bring in

01:29:08.340 but if I have a kid who sits in front of me and says I'm afraid of my whoever because of anything

01:29:15.520 as a teacher i have to take that fear very very seriously shouldn't i uh if a kid came in and said 0.99

01:29:23.580 i'm dating a black student and i'm white if my mom my dad finds out he's gonna beat the crap out of

01:29:28.860 me what do i do uh well i think this would be one of those those questions this would be one of 0.93

01:29:35.820 those situations where i say i'm sorry i i have to think about this but my initial reflex is to say

01:29:40.720 this is not a conversation i can have with you no i have a student you have a student that says

01:29:46.520 they are in potential danger well you can but you can you can this is now you can you can you can

01:29:53.140 frame it so that you say like oh they're if they're telling me that i'm going to get beaten

01:29:56.300 tonight and there's been evidence of it and you have there's there's reason i don't need i just

01:30:02.040 need evidence that it might happen i don't need evidence that it's happened no but evidence that

01:30:06.280 might happen would be i'm just gonna freeze my camera again would be more than a student you

01:30:11.320 know perhaps flippantly saying i'm gonna i'm scared of my parents or even because if a student

01:30:17.240 flippantly said that my first conversation would be honest to god on any of those fronts right

01:30:24.360 are you genuinely afraid of your parents and i'd wait for that answer because if the answer is no

01:30:31.560 no, not really. I said, great. Then this is a conversation for all of us. I'll have it with

01:30:35.960 you. I'll be here with you, but let's call them and have them in. If you're genuinely afraid,

01:30:41.580 if you think they're going to hurt you, we have a different line that we need to go down.

01:30:47.000 I can appreciate that. But then I, you know, I can also appreciate where this goes. Absolutely

01:30:54.400 haywire. If a student looking for attention has a fight and says, let's open this can,

01:30:59.560 let's open this can of worms and get the administration in and it's so if you know but

01:31:03.820 in the apps it's the first time ever is looking for that kind of attention and is willing to

01:31:09.040 put that stuff on the table holy shit we need to give it to them too maybe for very different

01:31:14.240 reasons possibly but they also might just have no concept of the consequences of that type of 0.98

01:31:19.440 attention seeking i'm talking about adults right like i mean not adults i'm talking about older

01:31:24.020 teenagers too right a student comes up to you and says um if my parents find out that i'm dating 0.93

01:31:29.360 a black kid, they're going to beat me.

01:31:34.540 I can see the questions that you'd have to have. 1.00

01:31:37.700 I would also talk to administration about that.

01:31:39.420 Yeah, but the question is, the conversion is where I'm going with this.

01:31:47.700 Do we agree that engaging in or allowing what now has become the talk of the day, a child

01:31:57.740 is uh you know i i don't tell my parents that i want to that i think that i identify as a male

01:32:02.620 that's a discussion that that that you say like well why don't you want to tell your parents

01:32:05.980 because they'll get mad at me um then my first again it is no different than my reaction to the

01:32:12.860 other to to the same the same issues i don't i don't see that conversation any different than

01:32:18.780 the other ones i have had students come to me look i don't question my students if a student

01:32:25.500 comes into my school and they say um my pronouns are not the gender in which i thought they were

01:32:33.420 i don't even question it i don't having said that um on unless somebody tells me differently i don't

01:32:42.940 hide it from their like you know what i mean unless i'm worried about their safety and then

01:32:46.380 we need to have that conversation i also will say that to their parents quite openly and well this

01:32:50.780 is this is where i would i would have to say again getting from biology to preference if a student

01:32:57.900 if but that's from from from an outside they could ask you to call the master i would not

01:33:03.260 expect an adult to cater to the whims of of a of a of a kid um if this would be one of those

01:33:09.420 examples where i say if if a kid comes up to you and says nicknames all the time nicknames are

01:33:14.540 different nicknames are different yeah but they're different to you they're different to you because

01:33:18.700 you've decided that the latter is is incredibly no i they're different to me because one is by

01:33:25.580 you know biology versus preference and nickname nicknames are your gender presentation is

01:33:31.740 preference gender presentation would be how one presents and and and dresses not not how

01:33:41.100 look at me right now my presentation right the way that i and then i i i'm sorry i would love

01:33:47.660 love to talk for like two more hours. I don't know how much longer I'm going to have to get going

01:33:51.000 to. But the way that I look right now is my preference, right? It's how I choose to look.

01:33:56.300 I don't want, and I know we were talking about my grandma earlier and when she was asking me 1.00

01:34:00.380 what non-binary means and all of those things. But not too long ago, I walked into a bathroom 0.91

01:34:07.700 and somebody grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and tried to pull me out. And I was following my

01:34:13.260 girlfriend at the time. And I was just like, I was so taken back by it. Now, when I turned around,

01:34:19.220 okay, they very quickly, because I have kind of feminine features. I think when people mistake

01:34:25.100 me, they see baggy jeans, they see a short hair, they maybe see tattoos and that's it. That's all

01:34:29.300 they've clocked in on. And they've grabbed me and then they were so apologetic. Number one,

01:34:36.060 Don't grab me. But number two, I don't get mad at the perception of me being a guy because

01:34:45.840 the way that I present, the way that I choose to express my whatever, you can call it gender,

01:34:54.480 I don't give a... I call it style, but... There we go. The way that I choose right now

01:35:00.600 falls in a category that people, for the most part, taking a quick glance, would very quickly

01:35:05.720 lump in a guy category, right? And I think the way that we present and the way that we walk

01:35:13.840 through this world and the way that we treat other people and the way we want to be treated

01:35:17.600 still has so much tied up with stereotypes and preconceptions of what those two different

01:35:24.820 genders are. Not my sex, just the way in which I dress. Now I work at a very different school,

01:35:30.640 you know that. I don't work at a school with 3,000 kids, right? I work at a small school where

01:35:35.140 I know all the parents. So anything the kid's going through, we've already had 17 meetings

01:35:40.080 about it, right? That's probably a big reason they brought them to Metro in the first place,

01:35:45.720 because, you know, they want a place where they can have that conversation, smaller class sizes

01:35:50.820 and all of that kind of stuff. But that's different. I am not, I would never, and I've

01:35:56.860 heard this sometimes where like somebody said, oh, teachers got together and they got the kid a

01:36:01.860 doctor and they snuck in meds and all of a sudden they were transitioning and their parents said

01:36:06.620 well can we at least put that over on the side of crazy town no can we can we at least put that

01:36:12.820 on the side of okay that crossed the line can we sure whether or not they're whether or not they're 0.58

01:36:17.080 they're gendering misgender misgender whether or not they are biologically incorrectly identifying

01:36:22.500 the kid not letting the parents know that has happened i don't think we can deny that that

01:36:26.460 happened i've only heard of one case and i'd still like to hear the full story now in canada in

01:36:32.440 ontario i think we talked about this before you can be 14 and decide oh yeah well you can there's

01:36:40.620 a few things that you can be for that the age of consent is is surprisingly not separate it is what

01:36:46.120 it is 14 and you don't need your parent and i found this out not through law i found this out

01:36:50.360 for a friend of a friend's kid and they were 14 years old and they wanted whatever well they were

01:36:57.940 going to a doctor and they were talking about you know being trans and and the dad didn't like it

01:37:02.520 and the doctor basically said yeah but in ontario your son gets to decide now is it i i don't know

01:37:10.880 much more than that but i find that interesting and if the law is respecting it in that capacity

01:37:17.040 am i not supposed to well i know first of all i would say i'm looking now the age of consent for

01:37:22.320 sexual activity is 16 in canada in some cases the age of consent is higher for example where

01:37:26.920 there's a relationship of trust or authority 16 i'd say you can talk about me oh i think it means

01:37:33.620 like if there's a teacher relationship then it has to be a um i have to find the examples you

01:37:39.300 you're not allowed to sleep with your students i don't understand no no even that's the law isn't

01:37:44.480 i'm gonna go i'm gonna go i'll find out what those exceptional cases are i i i'm actually

01:37:48.640 quite happy that i don't know what they are offhand yeah really really no but so so like

01:37:52.560 so we can agree see this is where you agree on the black and white okay so obviously transitioning

01:37:56.640 behind the parents back crosses the line criminal i don't know maybe you won't go there uh the one

01:38:01.840 what my question was though my question was this the 14 year old can transition behind the parents

01:38:06.880 back regardless is that true let's let's actually i don't know what the age of i don't think it's

01:38:11.600 that i think i think it's still 16 because i i can't see it being different than tattoos which

01:38:15.900 are 16 or 18 um tattoos are 18 i think so i can't see it i'll say within the realm of the law then

01:38:22.360 i have then then that is the the best like i'll talk if it's not illegal if this image is not

01:38:28.080 illegal cp then you know the law will be the ultimate defense for what's you know what can

01:38:33.680 be discussed but just like i'll finish the one thing we can agree secret transitioning bad

01:38:40.720 over the world yeah a kid comes in and says anybody anybody doing something with this with 0.92

01:38:48.540 with a minor that uh isn't their legal right to be doing would be the same thing and that's true

01:38:55.360 of a hockey coach that's true of a teacher but now we're getting into that goes right back to

01:39:00.380 the first question as to where that legal line between a teacher and a parent um i have a question

01:39:05.180 for you yep what a pastor what what do pastors what can they get away with uh legally i i don't

01:39:14.100 know and if the if if where we're going with this is confessions like uh yeah if a minor

01:39:19.560 right this minute i i don't yeah i wouldn't even know what age limit i i think there must be some

01:39:26.560 religious laws to the age of someone who could even go to the confessional but i i don't know

01:39:30.280 but let's just say we can agree on the black and white cases we can agree on the black and white

01:39:34.960 books that are just outright inappropriate we can agree that uh you know on certain things then the

01:39:39.900 question only becomes whether or not uh gender discussion is ever is ever appropriate uh whether

01:39:47.740 or not sorry go ahead look gender has first of all gender is in the curriculum so um when i talk

01:39:53.720 about um i teach a grade 12 society challenge and change course gender is in the curriculum the

01:39:59.180 distinction between sex and gender is in the curriculum the conversations about the lgbtq

01:40:04.300 plus movement is in the curriculum the that that's in the politics curriculum you might you might

01:40:09.600 just be this might be evidence as to how Ontario no no i know and some people are going to listen

01:40:14.360 to this and say well this is evidence as to how the Canadian educational system has gone the way

01:40:18.360 of the woke and like has gone into total. Sure. So ridiculous. But I, again, I'll stand in firm

01:40:24.580 disbelief of that. I would say a stronger educational system has more ideas on the

01:40:28.420 table, has a more open discourse, has a more open banter. And I'm talking about grade 12 courses.

01:40:34.640 That's what education should have. And if a parent is really concerned, if a parent really

01:40:39.240 wants to argue the opposite or really wants to be involved, they can get involved, but their ideas

01:40:45.200 do not get to control, manipulate, or indoctrinate the curriculum.

01:40:48.800 Well, unless it's one of the courses they take, that's all.

01:40:52.000 Well, their views don't get to, you know, determine the curriculum, unless it's one

01:40:58.180 of the cut and dry examples that we can all agree on, the most extreme of the extreme

01:41:00.960 examples.

01:41:01.380 Sure, sure.

01:41:02.240 But listen, I have seen, I saw a teacher screaming at a student like this far from

01:41:08.260 their face, and people are worried about whether or not I'm respecting pronouns.

01:41:13.800 What do you think causes more damage?

01:41:15.200 Well, first of all, respecting, what do I think causes more damage?

01:41:20.420 I don't know.

01:41:21.900 Or if a kid comes in and says, I'd like to go by they, them.

01:41:26.780 Look, I'll even grant you what I think.

01:41:29.840 Just saying, where's the outrage about the screaming teacher?

01:41:32.220 I think there is, there should be, and the fact that two things are destructive, but one more destructive than the other doesn't mean that the other one's not destructive.

01:41:39.840 I'm simply saying I, as well as you, would like some consistency across the board.

01:41:45.680 I saw a gym teacher rugby tackle a girl because two girls were fighting and he rugby tackled one of them.

01:41:53.920 And I mean a hard shoulder.

01:41:55.980 And the comments were filled with people that would, you know, let's be honest, not drinking Bud Light, saying, how'd it go?

01:42:04.760 That's the way you take care of them.

01:42:06.140 Kids nowadays need respect.

01:42:07.700 i don't read any the internet comments are generally speaking a cesspool where you don't

01:42:13.560 even know if people are trolling anymore and like reverse double fakie troll yeah sure but i look i

01:42:18.320 think any number of things can be destructive for a student and i do think engaging in and affirming

01:42:25.460 the confusion of children uh is is destructive whether or not it's more or less than you think

01:42:31.120 it's destructive if parents support it as well well i'll say that again you think it's destructive

01:42:36.320 if parents support it as well yes i do yeah so that's where we look we can sit here and talk

01:42:43.640 about should a teacher go behind a parent's back and what is the danger zone and what is the

01:42:47.960 precedent but our fundamental disagreement to be honest on this particular issue is going to come

01:42:53.820 when you say you don't believe that gender affirming care is what we should be engaging in

01:42:58.540 and i say i'm going to believe the endocrinologist the child psychologist the trans community and

01:43:03.080 then we just sit here at an impact yeah for sure for sure and then the only question is

01:43:06.520 that's the bottom line of that conversation yeah and then we revisit in 30 to 50 years and see

01:43:10.240 where where things have gone and whether or not you know all win you i'm sure back in the day

01:43:16.680 they were saying i and not to use a hyperbolic analogy but i'm sure back in the day they were

01:43:20.580 saying lobotomy is the cutting edge technology to getting rid of certain mental illnesses it'll

01:43:25.020 be it'll be great you know that they still use lobotomies now well i mean i mean for very

01:43:30.500 specific things i'm just saying i know and i haven't gone away i just had on my channel um

01:43:37.080 hold on i'm absolutely going senile um oh i i'm ashamed of myself

01:43:43.900 oh my goodness blair white my goodness i'm thinking of too many names i just had blair

01:43:50.440 white on where blair white is one of those examples of someone who you would you would 0.74

01:43:55.040 refer to blair as a she and no one would have a second guess no one would think that they're

01:43:58.820 violating their own psychological understanding of biology um and blair might be one of the

01:44:04.420 sorry because they passed well i don't think i don't think it's an interesting thing i i knew

01:44:10.920 blair on twitter before i knew that she was trans so like i in my in my mind that was the factual

01:44:15.780 reality that i ever had you could tell me one day to you know that you're biologically different

01:44:20.640 than i than i think that you are and then i'd still be surprised and i'd still reflexively say 0.68

01:44:24.340 she to you um but blair might be one of the examples and i think is one of the rare examples

01:44:30.980 where recognizing as blair does that it's gender dysphoria a mental condition and only under the

01:44:36.580 rarest of circumstances it does it go to where it went and even then didn't go all the way to

01:44:41.620 removing the body parts that might be one of the anomalous examples of where the radical treatment

01:44:48.580 is necessary to, um, eliminate the psychological distress, but anybody who pretends that this is

01:44:56.220 not becoming something of a, of, of a, of a goth type, um, what's the word of the ones who were

01:45:01.360 dressed in like black and they were always sad. It was gone. Okay. That's good. What an old man

01:45:07.440 with anyone pretending that there's not something of a, of a trending thing going on right now.

01:45:11.020 And the more destructive thing is, I don't think there's a trending thing of people wanting to have

01:45:15.440 major surgery in life, altering hormones. I think that's all taken very, very, very heavy. And I

01:45:20.180 would disagree with anybody who says otherwise, by the person, by the parent, by the medical

01:45:24.740 community. Here's what I do think is a big trend. And in my opinion, a good one. I think

01:45:32.420 a gender binary is a useless traditional set of circumstances and expectations and boxes we put 1.00

01:45:40.680 upon people that only limits humanity. And I mean that probably in a bigger way for men than I do 0.99

01:45:47.640 for women, because as a woman, I have been allowed socially to sort of have a much wider scope of how

01:45:55.560 I want to present, what I want to engage in, how I interact with people, what I do without the fear

01:46:01.980 of violence or significant recourse. Men, on the other hand, do not have that. Men step out of the

01:46:09.380 box in which they are presubscribed and they face a level of harassment and violence and bigotry

01:46:21.780 that is disgusting, that is shameful, and that only limits, only serves to limit who people can

01:46:31.300 grow to be. And I think that is an amazing conversation that people don't want to have

01:46:37.840 because they're too worried about whether or not their six-year-old wants to wear a dress or not.

01:46:41.460 But this is an amazing conversation. And if we're right, people have genetic predispositions to do

01:46:48.380 a whole bunch of things. I just don't think they're as connected to our gender presentation

01:46:54.100 and our gender or our social roles as we have tried to, and I say that word because it hasn't

01:47:01.120 been successful, and it's changed over the decades, right? That we have tried to instill

01:47:06.220 upon everybody else. It is an interesting discussion. I don't think many people are

01:47:10.680 averse to that discussion. And when it comes to gender as a concept versus sex, I don't think

01:47:15.420 people might disagree. I think that where the disagreement hits the fan and pollutes

01:47:21.260 the broader discussion is when it starts involving kids, gender affirming care,

01:47:26.260 which is a euphemism for something that I much worse. Yeah. But the kids are the kids, 0.98

01:47:31.700 the kids are the ones that haven't bought into gender roles yet i i look i i don't think the

01:47:37.060 kids are having thoughts that are i don't think the the trend among the kids is an organic trend

01:47:41.300 among kids who are discovering freedom i think it's actually a pervasive indoctrination from

01:47:46.900 adults who are putting on the kids you know little girls that have always wanted to wear their

01:47:52.500 brother's clothes and you know no one ever wanted to put on the dress and you know both of those

01:47:57.940 circumstances we have socially called their inclination to a certain point the girls a lot

01:48:06.520 less than the boys and then sent them on their way right i that's what i'm talking about that's

01:48:13.540 all i'm talking about well yeah and i think now but we now we might have gone to the full swing

01:48:20.700 opposite where back in the day oh you know some people say don't don't wear a dress and do whatever

01:48:24.940 and be, you know, whatever.

01:48:26.600 I think now we've gotten to the exact opposite,

01:48:29.300 which is where this trend comes from the adults

01:48:31.200 to the kids and not vice versa,

01:48:32.360 where I like to say as a parent,

01:48:34.000 you know, when a parent says to a kid,

01:48:35.280 don't be afraid,

01:48:36.600 they're actually, you know,

01:48:37.800 planting that seed for the kid to be afraid.

01:48:40.020 And so when, when, when, when they,

01:48:41.740 when now, when you, when you see kids saying,

01:48:43.380 I want to dress and then the parent thinks,

01:48:44.820 oh, I'm going to be so supportive and affirming.

01:48:46.680 I'm going to make a bigger deal of it

01:48:47.960 than should otherwise be made of it.

01:48:49.660 Such that when the kid hits 10 years old, 0.90

01:48:51.380 I think I'm a they or I'm, I want to be.

01:48:53.180 yeah but you're but now you're saying you know parents aren't perfect and they're not perfectly

01:48:58.800 raising their kids but but i think i think that erring on the side of as long as it doesn't hurt

01:49:05.260 exactly well as wearing on the side of i'm going to support you 100 i don't think you go wrong as

01:49:12.220 a parent as long as it doesn't hurt you and gender affirming care hurts them but we're not that's not

01:49:17.620 what we're talking about we're simply talking does your six-year-old little boy want to wear

01:49:22.100 the dress to school every day and are you culling that behavior we have forever forever and ever and

01:49:31.280 ever i had a kid listen i taught a kid a very very long time ago and um you know the amount

01:49:39.520 of therapy that was foisted upon him because you know he liked female pop stars was a lot

01:49:49.120 And that's the trend.

01:49:51.940 Let's talk about indoctrination.

01:49:54.540 Let's talk about it on both sides equally.

01:49:56.800 And I promise you, I promise you, the side that says boys will wear blue and play with

01:50:02.660 trucks is a much bigger proponent of what that indoctrination looks like than the opposite.

01:50:10.460 Still.

01:50:10.960 So I think we can agree on what we agree on, so long as it doesn't harm the kid.

01:50:15.240 And then the question becomes, when does it?

01:50:17.480 um side note and then we're gonna have to wrap up yes why don't i have a cool emblem like that

01:50:23.920 because i feel like that's more my hair than yours you would not want to wear this emblem in

01:50:28.360 in insert it reminds me a little bit of it reminds me of beaker you remember beaker from

01:50:34.780 i'm getting a i might hold on a second i might have to run now because i'm getting that's okay

01:50:41.960 we can run because we're wrapping it up right now thank you so much for hanging out i really

01:50:46.680 appreciate you thank you very thank you for having me and thank you for the discussion look i like i

01:50:51.740 say i believe you are a sincerely uh well-intentioned individual and not a malicious

01:50:56.460 player and not a deceitful player and then i think we understand with you good right i appreciate you

01:51:04.340 stick around for one second i just have one thing off camera that i want to say to you to everybody

01:51:08.120 that's listening thank you so much for listening i will leave all of his connections and links in

01:51:14.280 the comment section below and I will see you next Tuesday. Same bat time, same bat station. Dismissed.

Unlearn16: Class is in Session - May 30, 2023

The One Where Viva Frei and I Debate the Power of a Teacher

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