Unlearn16: Class is in Session - April 05, 2022


The One Where We Discuss Language and the Violence Within It

Topics
The One Where I Tell You My Origin Story The One Where The Woman Wouldn't Leave

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 33 minutes

Words per minute

153.5

Word count

14,355

Sentence count

317

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

33

sentences flagged

Hate speech

40

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Welcome everybody to Unlearned 16 Classes in Session. Today, I am incredibly lucky to have
00:00:11.440 Marty with me, who's this highly intelligent, articulate TikToker that I came across quite
00:00:19.880 a while ago, actually. And the way that he constructs an argument and breaks it down
00:00:26.600 and speaks about real life. I knew that I desperately wanted to have you on here. So,
00:00:31.080 Marty, thank you so much for coming on. If you want to give a bit of background about
00:00:34.460 who you are, where you come from, whatever you think is pertinent, we're all yours.
00:00:39.720 Well, my name is Marty, and I'm Blackfoot. And I don't really know what else to say. I've done
00:00:47.880 a lot in my life, and there's kind of like too long of a step to just say.
00:00:53.320 Okay. What are your three highlights, let's say?
00:00:56.280 Well, I was raised as a ceremony person with our people from a very young age.
00:01:06.780 Do you want to explain what that is just for people who aren't Indigenous or who have no connection to that culture?
00:01:11.860 Well, with our ceremony, there's kind of, it's really elaborate. 0.99
00:01:18.700 Like people, I feel bad for them. 0.95
00:01:21.360 One time we had this woman at the Sundance. 0.95
00:01:23.280 She came over. 0.99
00:01:23.920 she was from a tribe just one province over in Saskatchewan and she was the head of the
00:01:31.120 Indigenous Studies Department at the university and when she came to our ceremony I saw her and
00:01:38.100 I was like oh Tanya I know her so I went over there walked over to her and I was about to greet
00:01:43.600 her and she looked at me and she had big huge tears in her eyes like they're just welled up
00:01:48.720 and read. And I said, I just kind of looked at her and I was like, Oh, geez, you're crying.
00:01:54.600 And I said, So what do you think? And then she said, We have nothing like this. What you what
00:02:02.600 you are doing, we have absolutely nothing like this left anymore. And I realized that she didn't
00:02:09.820 know what her people had lost until she saw what we had retained. Because like, you know, we're the
00:02:17.340 last to be colonized like they avoided blackfoot people for a very very long time and it wasn't we
00:02:23.660 weren't put on reserve until 1884 or so and so it was um quite a big shock to her to see what we
00:02:31.400 still had yeah and so without getting into too much detail there's different um it's not just
00:02:39.860 like one kind of ceremony like it follows the moon cycles uh 13 moon cycles there's uh seasonal
00:02:48.420 stuff that we do there's different groups that have different ceremonies within and it's uh it
00:02:56.180 takes some of them take weeks to do you know and so i get pretty exhausted sometimes when i'm um
00:03:03.780 they're doing doing my thing with ceremony people so it's it's quite a it's quite a bit but um the
00:03:10.980 good news is there's at this point there's probably a few thousand people who are involved
00:03:17.780 wow that's amazing as a caveat to that though if you ever meet indigenous men in particular 0.90
00:03:25.300 who are claiming to be a shaman or a holy man right they're a fraud stay away from them why is 0.99
00:03:30.980 that why is that because they're snake oil sales that language yeah they're they're snake oil
00:03:36.980 salesmen they're just there to like use you for money or something like that because the actual
00:03:42.340 ones the real ones they never talk about it like the ones that do kind of like healing with
00:03:48.260 medicines or any kind of like personal body healing anything like that they never talk about it and
00:03:54.580 why not um generally speaking they're not allowed to not by any person but by what gifts they have
00:04:04.420 they're not allowed to to speak of it because they it might uh they might lose it oh wow okay
00:04:12.500 because it's a gift yeah they would offer it then you know what i mean like you would i mean within
00:04:19.860 the blackfoot community you would know yeah but outside they would just have to offer it 0.52
00:04:26.180 and no no no no no they they don't offer it at all um it's blackfoot people know who they are 0.98
00:04:34.260 and so we go to the ones who we know who they are and so they they're not advertising themselves 1.00
00:04:40.500 they're not selling their services in any sort of way we know who the people are so we go to them
00:04:46.100 and um has that always been the case or do you think that's like a protectionism that's
00:04:51.860 been instilled in specifically blackfoot people or any indigenous nation for that matter because
00:04:59.460 of colonization because uh and especially now with a lot of the appropriation that's going on
00:05:05.780 do you think it's been that's that's to protect that gift well i can't really speak on other
00:05:11.780 indigenous people like i don't know a whole lot about them because we're pretty well taught to
00:05:17.140 just know about blackfoot people right well let's be yeah speaking directly for blackfoot then yeah
00:05:22.420 one of my friends he had actually gone to live with the cree in manitoba for a little while for
00:05:28.820 about a year and he went to one of their sweat lodges and they actually had it their sweat lodge
00:05:35.220 inside a house because what they did, um, up until like mid 19th or mid 20th century,
00:05:44.980 it was, uh, technically illegal for us to be practicing our ceremony, I think up until like
00:05:52.000 the 1960s. Right. So people would be arrested for doing that. Yes. And so our practice at that time
00:05:59.520 became like, if we're going to do a ceremony, we had to shorten it down to a day and get rid
00:06:05.120 the evidence right away right but what uh some people did is they actually built whole houses
00:06:11.280 where they yeah just for ceremony they would hide it inside the house and so that house is
00:06:18.320 particularly for that ceremony and they have blacked out windows where they could hide from
00:06:22.880 the rcmp and that was a federal law right yeah criminalization that would have been federal yeah
00:06:30.320 in like i think that was like 1947 it was it was probably under mckenzie king and then who
00:06:36.000 was that what's that mckenzie king was horrible just the worst it's the absolute worst and not
00:06:44.000 when i teach about him i mean because i do teach canadian history and i teach about him i
00:06:48.320 i'm very holistic in how i speak about him because a lot of people you know don't speak
00:06:52.880 about all the horrific things um and this is this is obviously a significant how do you
00:06:59.360 criminalize something like that because he criminalizes it in 47 and then it continues
00:07:04.720 to what Diefenbaker I guess in the 60s is that when it gets decriminalized I think it was around
00:07:10.400 like the end of the 60s early 70s I'm not exactly sure at the time but people were still very like
00:07:16.040 there's tribes out there now who practice their ceremony hidden in the bush still because they're 0.98
00:07:22.540 still scared of the rcmp you know and so luckily we found ways of um getting around it like just 0.99
00:07:31.740 just hiding from them right and we had actually never stopped our main stuff because uh there's
00:07:38.540 just no way that they could stop us like they they tried often like my great-grandfather great great
00:07:45.180 grandfather he was um he was one of our weather dancers doing our main one of our main ceremonies
00:07:53.180 and he had uh been arrested actually for put in jail for several days after the fact for that
00:08:00.460 yeah just for spring just for pray like when i when i tell this the age in which i teach
00:08:08.460 this kind of history goes from like grade seven so like 12 years old up into grade 10 which is
00:08:13.020 was what, 14, 15 years old. And when I talk about this kind of criminalization and I give examples,
00:08:18.640 the examples I can give and as much insight as I can give it, right? The kids always sit there
00:08:23.840 with their mouths open, like, why, why would you take time, even time out of a bullet to criminalize
00:08:34.160 praying and dancing and it affects nobody. And they sit there with such innocence,
00:08:42.480 which is quite lovely because obviously they don't understand the cultural genocide that was
00:08:47.140 afoot. And unfortunately I'm the one that gets to explain it to them. Um, but they just, you know
00:08:52.720 what I mean? And now the kids are starting to get it in a much more significant way, obviously
00:08:58.760 because of the massively increased notoriety of, of the murdered indigenous children they're finding
00:09:06.620 all over the country. Right. So kids are starting to gain awareness of that. And as they gain 0.77
00:09:11.480 awareness of it they're they constantly are looking into it so trying to figure out okay
00:09:16.540 what ceremony was banned when by who what were the consequence and the interesting part about that is
00:09:21.880 there's such little evidence like you're talking about the rcmp coming knocking and arresting
00:09:26.460 the the funny part is you you go try to find that on the internet because really that's where we're
00:09:31.240 looking at this point right and it's very difficult if not impossible to find that evidence
00:09:37.720 because you're only going to hear it through personal story
00:09:41.900 because I'll tell you who's not putting it on their website, the RCMP.
00:09:45.480 So it's just been washed.
00:09:49.080 And, yeah, it is nice to see the new generation
00:09:53.040 seeing it with very, very, very clear eyes.
00:09:57.280 But, of course, you'd be hiding it forever.
00:10:00.600 How do you get rid of that fear?
00:10:02.060 You can't just eradicate it.
00:10:04.780 Oh, it's legal now? Great. Everything's good.
00:10:06.860 i don't have to remember the last you know 150 years yeah there's i mean i think there's some
00:10:13.340 protection outside protection because um there were people who had come like um anthropologists
00:10:22.540 well armchair anthropologists even ethnographers um people who had come to study us or to stay
00:10:30.140 with us and some people did a good job like there's i think his name is james willard schultz
00:10:35.660 he wrote a book called uh my life as an indian where he had lived in with black feet in amskapi
00:10:42.140 pikani in montana right and so he tells stories about going on war raids with them and living
00:10:48.940 how they lived yeah and but then there's other people who had come in and they were just taking
00:10:55.660 pictures and uh you know doing and they were they were doing such maybe partially intentionally but
00:11:06.060 also unintentionally misrepresenting what they were seeing because they had no framework frame
00:11:12.540 of reference for what they were looking at hey so they would interpret it in a weird way but then
00:11:17.740 And like we we have some of the most documentation on us.
00:11:23.180 Blackfoot people do. And a lot of it is stuff that just armchair anthropologists were going around saying, oh, this is what they did.
00:11:31.340 You know, they're very primitive for this, that they're very savage.
00:11:34.540 And so they would make up a lot of stuff. And that's what I worry about sometimes, because this actually ties into the main topic is that you can't trust.
00:11:45.180 i was actually taught this from a young age you can't trust what people are writing down about
00:11:51.220 you you can't trust what is being documented because uh people could easily lie and put it
00:11:57.480 in a book anybody can lie and put it in a book absolutely and so we end up um part of the danger
00:12:04.200 is like when we're looking at wikipedia or google because there's a lack of information out there
00:12:11.960 or a lack of true information out there, in some ways it serves us because then they don't know
00:12:20.060 who we really are. Then they don't know how to speak Blackfoot. They don't understand who we
00:12:25.220 really are. So in that way, they have the wrong idea about us, but we know fully well who they
00:12:31.640 are. So there's a benefit there, but there's also this downside to where a lot of youth
00:12:39.720 aren't taught how to approach elders or to ask questions because like part of asking a question
00:12:48.180 is that you kind of have to have a well a frame of reference some knowledge to ask this question
00:12:56.680 about what you're asking but if you don't know anything about it then how are you supposed to
00:13:02.440 ask the right questions to get to the answers that illuminate you you know and so part of the
00:13:09.500 danger of relying on wikipedia or google or you know those sorts of things is that um it may not
00:13:17.400 um it may not be there in the documentation that's available to us right now is what i'm saying i
00:13:25.120 guess yeah absolutely and i mean we talk very very openly about that you know and we have like
00:13:30.320 indigenous fest like so a film festival in toronto that is that is curated and created by
00:13:36.880 indigenous people of all different nations and and uh you know i've taken my kids to that because
00:13:42.320 we we speak a lot about trying to hear the stories from the people themselves and believe them when
00:13:47.920 you hear them right i mean that's that's one of the really important and that's and we're going
00:13:52.560 to talk about language today but that's where history truly lives in the people that have lived
00:13:58.640 it um and the closer i can i can get to that and then the closer i can then bring that to the my
00:14:05.680 students, I think is the, the best kind of education, but you also are dealing with a
00:14:11.160 community and we're going to talk about language obviously, but you're also dealing with a
00:14:15.260 community. I mean, I'm from Ontario and of course it would be true everywhere in Canada that has
00:14:20.680 been so, that have been such horrible victims of such a level of violence, either, either,
00:14:27.540 you know, physical or cultural that it's very guarded, right? That, that your culture and
00:14:35.560 your identity and what was and what is, is very, very guarded. So as somebody who's not Indigenous,
00:14:42.320 trying to understand that, sometimes you come up against walls that I respect,
00:14:47.960 and I understand 100%. And I teach my students to be respectful of those walls. And we talk about
00:14:56.440 why they might exist and how we have to be respectful of that and of the process it's
00:15:01.980 going to take if ever for those walls to come down in any significant way yeah um i think it's um
00:15:12.600 you know it's tough because there's some stuff that is really of no business to other people
00:15:22.920 you know that's great like what like there's some ceremony stuff that uh we don't talk about
00:15:29.960 because it's like you know this is for the ceremony people so it's like um even historically
00:15:37.180 not everybody was involved in ceremony like when it was just blackfoot people in our territory
00:15:42.620 there was always a smaller group of people who were involved in ceremony who knew what we were
00:15:48.440 doing who knew what we were on about there were some people who like prayer or or traditional
00:15:55.020 living quote-unquote traditional living that wasn't ever forced upon anybody like there is
00:16:00.280 people in the tribe who are just like yeah I'm just living my life you know like just doing my
00:16:04.120 thing there was no um you know gifts or medicines that they had there's no paranormal stuff going
00:16:10.820 on there's no ceremony stuff going on there was just uh they're just there living their life
00:16:16.600 And that wasn't something that was forced upon people, you know, and but at the same time, I was actually in one of your lives and you were talking, you are going on this back and forth about sex ed and elementary school students.
00:16:38.960 Yes.
00:16:39.620 And I so wanted to jump in on that. And this is if you don't mind, I'll tell you this story.
00:16:44.860 Yes, please.
00:16:45.480 so um there's different kinds of stories that we have and really it can be viewed as like
00:16:57.320 the creation story from the very beginning of time right up until now it's actually one story
00:17:03.860 and it goes through different parts so the creation story starts with the sun
00:17:09.240 and the moon and the earth and then it travels on to not be and um when people first came around
00:17:19.200 and not be is uh called the old man because he when people came he he taught them everything
00:17:28.500 that he knew and once he taught everything that he knew he went crazy and he and so that's that
00:17:37.160 kind of like trickster thing that they have you know that kind of trickster but it's not really
00:17:42.560 that you know like I think just sort of like uh academia and like there's sort of um analogous or 0.83
00:17:51.080 or parallel characters in other tribes so like um the Cree have Weisakechuk you know and then
00:17:58.220 I think for the Dene it's Wolverine oh yeah yeah but there's a very different you know this is this
00:18:05.180 is different because with not be stories they so there's children versions of the stories
00:18:14.620 that are censored to some extent and then there's like youth sort of adult versions of the stories
00:18:25.680 that get more explicit and they get more to the point then there's the ceremony stories
00:18:34.520 but there's also stories that women would talk about among themselves and men would talk about
00:18:40.280 among themselves so some of these stories are really really filthy stories like they're
00:18:48.540 absolutely filthy and um can i tell one of these stories like with the warning that it is filthy
00:18:59.020 Sure.
00:18:59.340 I always click the box that says, this isn't for kids.
00:19:01.840 Yeah.
00:19:02.880 Well, so this story that I was told was about the creation of the Old Man River. 1.00
00:19:09.940 So, Nopi was known for having a very large penis. 0.99
00:19:15.380 It was huge. 1.00
00:19:16.380 It was massive.
00:19:18.500 And there was this woman. 0.99
00:19:20.960 One night, there was this woman that had come in, and so she started having sex with him. 0.97
00:19:26.780 And he was all for this. 0.98
00:19:28.220 oh good whatever but it was the best sex he had ever had and in as the sun came up in the morning
00:19:33.700 she left so he didn't see who she was but she came back again the next night and they had the
00:19:42.180 most amazing sex ever it was better than the last time but the sun came up in the morning and she
00:19:46.840 left so this kept going on and finally he said I want to know who this woman is I want to marry
00:19:53.120 this woman and so he decided what he's going to do is he's going to dig a pit beside his bed
00:19:58.880 he's dug a pit yeah he's going to trap her so they have the um she comes in the next night 0.99
00:20:06.100 they have great sex together and then just as she's about to leave he he grabs her and rolls
00:20:15.360 over with her and goes into the pit and so she's they're both in there they can't get out without 0.86
00:20:22.080 each other's help. And he's waiting to see who this woman is, because she would always leave.
00:20:28.780 So as the sun rose and started getting brighter and brighter, finally she couldn't hide. And he
00:20:34.360 said, turn around, I want to see who you are. She turns around, and it's his sister. And so he's
00:20:41.600 absolutely ashamed of all of this that had gone on. Absolutely ashamed. He's so ashamed that he
00:20:49.380 starts crying and he starts crying and crying and crying but he's crying so hard out of shame
00:20:56.040 she starts crying out of shame that they just lose control of their their they void their bowels and 0.89
00:21:03.000 he starts peeing so he's crying and pissing and crying and pissing and they cry and piss so much 0.88
00:21:09.320 that it fills up the pit and they cry and piss so much that it creates the old man river so 0.62
00:21:17.400 some of these stories they're not to be taken literally you know you're probably not going to
00:21:25.460 forget that story anytime soon that story is shocking to the senses there's stories about
00:21:31.680 not be where he raped there's stories about him where he um like he turned himself into a baby 0.97
00:21:41.600 so that he could get at this woman this woman's large breasts there's stories about him coercing 0.98
00:21:48.060 women into sex i think shakespeare stole all of his plays from these stories i think they're all 0.97
00:21:54.120 straight from there but yeah continue and there's stories where he murders even wow so there's some 0.74
00:22:01.420 really awful stories but then there's also stories in there where he um like he tricked
00:22:07.900 some gophers into um roasting themselves on the fire but he let the pregnant gopher go because
00:22:14.140 there should be more gophers so there's always embedded um there's an embedded lesson of
00:22:20.140 conservation within it but the point of these stories is that what they were told as a means
00:22:30.940 of education and social control yeah so there's children's versions that are very moralistic
00:22:39.100 they're about stealing they're about um they're about being honest and they're silly stories
00:22:45.660 they're stories that are meant to make you laugh to emotionally react and then when you get into 0.99
00:22:51.420 the youth and adult stories that's where the sexuality comes in because black people had
00:22:56.860 recognize that there are stages of development psychologically for people and the main stages
00:23:04.600 are infant youth adult elder so infancy is from the from zero to 25 youth is 25 to 50
00:23:13.480 adult is 50 to 75 and elder is 75 to 100 because people would generally live to be about 100 years
00:23:24.020 old throughout an appropriate lifespan anyway the point of these stories was to proactively
00:23:34.220 mitigate sexual violence because that you learn from not be how not to be here you don't want to 0.96
00:23:43.920 be like him he is a fool and I think what had happened more often than not too and I've had 0.99
00:23:49.860 this confirmed by other elders was that things would happen in camp uh you know humans be human 1.00
00:23:57.560 so they're going to steal they're going to get into sexual misconduct they're going to be violent
00:24:03.680 they're going to murder there's all of these things that they're going to do and when there
00:24:08.500 was something that was so outrageous that would happen within camp that they had to deal with
00:24:13.620 That would become a not be story to teach other generations. Look at how foolish, how crazy this behavior is. So we don't want to do that. 0.99
00:24:23.160 Yeah. So there's these books called, well, George Bird Grinnell had written, I think, Blackfoot Stories, I think is what it's called. There's others like the Old North Trail.
00:24:35.680 in one of those books about our stories, the author writes, I have intentionally
00:24:43.400 censored these stories, because they are too raunchy and ribald for civilized ears.
00:24:50.960 They're no good. So what he ended up doing was he removed the point of the story.
00:24:57.640 because you can't mitigate sexual violence without talking about what sexual violence is
00:25:07.620 you can't mitigate these problems without being honest about them yep and that's why it's important
00:25:15.940 for children at early ages when they're starting to interact with other people to get age
00:25:23.020 appropriate ideas of what sexuality is of what uh you know the psychological development that
00:25:29.820 they're going through their body development so on and so forth absolutely what a great what and
00:25:35.260 this is gonna this is a lovely sort of transition into language because what a great perfect analogy
00:25:43.500 and comparison to what we think we're doing when we protect or we cover or we we you know
00:25:52.300 do whatever we do to young people or to adults, because let's be honest, we still love to censor
00:25:57.960 left, right, and center. And when we do censor what we're scrubbing out of reality, and if we
00:26:05.960 scrub it out of reality, we don't know we have to face it. We don't know we have to have a
00:26:11.260 discussion about it. We don't know it needs to be on the table, right? I mean, and that's what
00:26:17.480 censorship a lot of the times does. And I've had, I don't know how many conversations about
00:26:23.260 censoring language and what we can and can't say and how we're supposed to interact with each other
00:26:29.600 and what civilized society, and I use that term loosely, looks like. But it all goes back to
00:26:36.400 people A, a lot of powerful people trying to control the narrative to make society work.
00:26:42.740 right we want society to work in a normal society work we want less conflict we want less uprising
00:26:49.520 we want less we everybody wants less violence nobody wants violence but what do we do well we
00:26:55.260 ignore the reality to pretend as though we have it and all that does is perpetuate the negatives
00:27:03.220 right it allows the negatives to breed and to to multiply because we're not we're not addressing
00:27:10.600 them so when i was talking about that i don't know how much of the live you heard but it was really
00:27:16.120 in relation to florida's laws about k through three um that's why i was having that conversation
00:27:22.440 i think um and and because the whole you know the don't say gay bill which it's not what it's called
00:27:28.520 but the bill in florida that's trying to control what we talk to k to three about
00:27:35.400 and what's interesting or one of the foundational things i found interesting is number one
00:27:40.600 the people that created the bill like to pretend and conflate talking about your bodies and talking
00:27:48.780 about your gender and talking about your identity to like, oh my God, we're teaching great these 0.94
00:27:52.820 threes how to have intercourse. Nobody's doing that anywhere, right? But most psychologists 1.00
00:28:00.820 believe that and have studied that by four years old, kids start to gain a significant portion of
00:28:06.800 their gender identity. And so kids can have a strong viewpoint of that. And for us not to talk
00:28:13.940 about it at that age, if we're talking about age appropriateness, psychologists are saying this is
00:28:20.140 when they start developing that. How do we not speak to that? And not in an educated way, but
00:28:26.340 if a little boy walks in and he was born a boy and he walks in and he identifies as a girl, and I'm
00:28:31.960 not going to talk about that as a teacher. I can't talk about that to the rest of the kids who are
00:28:35.960 like, what? Wait a minute. That's not what my mom told me. My mom told me that boys are he's.
00:28:42.280 So that's, you know, or kids that have same-sex parents. They're not, are they not allowed to 1.00
00:28:47.800 talk about that? Or books. You were just talking about literature, right? Books that have, nobody's
00:28:53.360 saying that you shouldn't have a book with a mummy and a daddy in it. Nobody's arguing about that.
00:28:57.560 Nobody's going to court and suing about that. But having a book, they want to take books out
00:29:01.980 the library that have same-sex parents when they're trying to censor a reality right
00:29:10.540 yeah like i think that that that problem has been um because like when we were this was in
00:29:18.880 victorian times that we signed the treaty you know like with queen victoria 1877 so you know the once
00:29:25.960 the ethnographers had come to us it had been in that time and post victorian area era so there's
00:29:33.560 a long history of brushing things under the rug for the west you know and like this kind of uh
00:29:41.000 strange purity culture like in like here even um when the mormons had come up here and colonized
00:29:51.560 their little area uh cardston they were polygamous at that time but they forget that history or it's
00:29:59.320 not that they forget it they don't talk about it it's not it's it's whatever it's something
00:30:03.640 that was done in the past yeah and there's this constant kind of um whitewashing of history in
00:30:11.320 order to just sort of you know we'll we'll ignore it and it's not it's not a big issue because
00:30:17.560 because that's already done. We'll, we'll do whatever, you know,
00:30:20.300 like gibbet cages where they used to just like people living or alive,
00:30:24.600 just hang them in the streets on these, these metal cages, you know,
00:30:27.760 burning people at the stakes, so on and so forth.
00:30:31.720 Like there's a lot of stuff that's gone out of fashion, but you know,
00:30:37.840 that history of oppression and repression in order to just ignore those parts
00:30:43.940 and hopefully it goes away. It doesn't go away. It just,
00:30:47.560 makes it weirder you know like you get weird results when you have to um repress this and
00:30:53.840 it's it's kind of on topic with what's his face ted cruz and his his anti-racist baby
00:30:58.320 oh yeah he's like they're saying this baby's racist you know and there was a fella on tiktok
00:31:04.500 who had read the book yeah on his tiktok and it's a short book and reading when once he read it i 0.99
00:31:11.820 realized right away this book isn't aimed at kids this book is aimed at stupid adults who are too 1.00
00:31:19.480 stupid to understand they're trying to break it down to you like this is what racism is and they're 1.00
00:31:26.960 they're trying to do it in a way that's like you are so uninformed that we have to talk to you like 1.00
00:31:34.040 you're a child and they still don't get it like that's the and i think and i mean when ted cruz
00:31:43.760 did that by the way i bought all four books immediately but nonetheless like whatever book
00:31:47.620 he held up i said i'm gonna like that book i can tell already um but what i find interesting and
00:31:53.860 and we talk about people and i would still say mainstream canadian culture and i would still say
00:32:01.380 the majority of people think that by us actually acknowledging actual history, real, just like what
00:32:10.620 you've described, right? Like real events that happen. So rather than saying that was never us,
00:32:15.760 or we're not talking about that, or we're ripping that chapter out of the book and moving on with
00:32:19.460 all the good stuff we've done since. If we can't acknowledge all of it, I'm not even going to
00:32:27.200 placate and say history will repeat itself what i am saying is we won't progress well we won't
00:32:35.840 progress as quickly as we could have if we would have put all of it on the table all of it the good
00:32:42.060 the bad and the ugly we put all of it on the table including like a lot of people especially right now
00:32:48.060 you're finding or i'm starting to find um this pendulum right like why all of a sudden it seems
00:32:56.420 like all of a sudden you have, you know, don't say gay, you have anti-trans laws, you have
00:33:02.320 anti-CRT laws. Now this is predominantly in the United States, but we, it spills over into Canada.
00:33:07.880 I saw a guy with a Trump sign just the other day. It spills over into here. And I, and we have our
00:33:13.200 own versions and bastions of racism and discrimination, all of our own anyway. But what
00:33:19.600 I think we're seeing is this huge push by those communities and real gains being made by the
00:33:25.460 trans community by the gay community right by by the black community and and uh black lives matter
00:33:31.040 and all of these things and what we're seeing right now is the giant pendulum swinging backwards
00:33:37.200 saying no no no that's too much you've got you've gone too far everybody sees these laws as being a
00:33:46.500 a sign of of this sort of these movements losing and funnily enough and in a way i see it as winning
00:33:53.680 because the only reason they're making the law the only reason they're pushing so hard back
00:34:00.680 is because a lot of good people a lot of intelligent people a lot of good-hearted
00:34:06.060 people which i think there's more than not are making this push so the only thing they can do
00:34:11.280 is try to legislate it away let's quickly criminalize it we'll legislate it away and
00:34:15.960 then it will go away but all that's going to happen is another big push from the other side
00:34:19.920 right because you don't eradicate things like that i think that in part what they're doing
00:34:26.080 with these laws is uh knowing that trump had appointed a few supreme court justices
00:34:32.700 that i think they're kind of hoping that it goes to the supreme court
00:34:36.600 but there's such a backlog of court cases that they're dealing with that this is going to be a
00:34:43.180 fight they know for years to come but like just throttle the system with all of these these
00:34:48.860 ridiculous legislations yeah and in the hopes that it'll be one but then meanwhile uh what's
00:34:55.700 her name i can't remember her name the the lady that biden is appointing oh jackson jackson jackson 0.86
00:35:03.660 yeah judge jackson so you know like it looking just sort of outwardly looking at the united
00:35:10.000 states it's like man they got a super messed up system and i'm just i i i wish it goes better for
00:35:17.200 people there um at the same time it's almost like um it's i i found the united states to be kind of
00:35:25.360 a canary for a canary in the mine for canada to see what's coming in the next little bit you know
00:35:32.240 i agree and we have that here right and and we have that here in the you know in the guise of
00:35:39.680 of gentlemen like jordan peterson and again i don't need to spend too much time talking about
00:35:44.220 him but speaking against you know censorship of language and then what does it mean and who's
00:35:51.160 trying to do it and what are they trying to do and how are they trying to control you and i had
00:35:54.520 a great conversation with one of my friends um because bill c16 are you familiar with that bill
00:36:03.100 right the bill that was basically so this is where jordan peterson got a lot of his notoriety and and
00:36:07.940 you, this is 2016, where you start to see that push in Canada, or rather the pushback against
00:36:15.860 sort of diversity and equity platforms and all of the pushes we've had for all different kinds
00:36:20.800 of minorities in this country. And you start to see the pushback. And part of this bill was that,
00:36:27.280 And I'm simplifying. You are to address people by the gender pronouns they identify with. Simple, right? And it falls underneath. You can't discriminate on the basis of sex, sexuality, race, ethnicity, yada.
00:36:49.660 And they sort of added trends at the end of that very long list. 1.00
00:36:53.640 And he gets up and says, well, I shouldn't, if I say that you're a he when you're really 1.00
00:36:58.600 a she or you identify as a she, I shouldn't go to jail for that. 1.00
00:37:02.160 Well, number one, nobody is going to jail for that. 1.00
00:37:08.020 So all of a sudden he escalated the punishment, right?
00:37:11.300 To scare everybody.
00:37:13.060 But I think what it did is it tapped into something.
00:37:17.300 And this is why I listen to them, because I'm always curious at what it's tapped into in a silent majority in this country, in a group of people that stay silent, but then start to really agree with and get behind certain ideas and preconceptions or whatever that I thought we were long past.
00:37:42.720 And you see that with Trump. Trump didn't create racism in America. He just started hanging out megaphones, metaphorically. He didn't create that sentiment. He made it subtly okay to actually express what you were really feeling.
00:38:03.560 right and so when people condemn i can condemn trump with the best of them
00:38:10.080 but what i don't mind that happened is it pulled the blanket back on how people are still really
00:38:19.320 thinking and i think that that's incredibly important right yeah i i it it's good to
00:38:28.780 I think in the grand scheme of things, I'm under the belief, and I may be wrong or this may be a hot take, that I don't know if there would have been a civil rights movement without the horrific things that had happened in World War II.
00:38:58.780 interesting i don't know if there would have been such an interest in the rights of human beings
00:39:07.020 and worldwide the united nations and our interest in human rights without seeing how far people went
00:39:13.980 with world war ii so publicly yeah because if it um because there you know there was horrific
00:39:20.220 things happening this entire history but stuff that we didn't see so we didn't see um you know
00:39:26.620 the spanish inquisition was 400 years in the making that had happened uh there was uh there
00:39:34.060 had been genocides there had been just really really awful stuff that was never appropriately
00:39:40.860 documented or recorded so like you could hear about you know some ruler impaling people and
00:39:46.780 putting them on their lawn and um you know or lining the road like you you could hear that stuff
00:39:54.940 but if you don't actually see it then it doesn't have the same impact you know and i think that
00:40:01.900 that was a big huge um that was a huge realization for the world that you know like well we knew of
00:40:08.700 concentration camps they did know of them you know like there was people alive there they knew
00:40:14.540 they couldn't deny that they didn't know because it was it was known what was going on the anyway
00:40:20.940 and it wasn't until they saw you know it wasn't until they saw and then that they were forced to
00:40:27.680 see yeah and i think for a little while afterwards the um i remember watching videos of uh your
00:40:35.700 everyday nazis were sat down in movie theaters and shown what was going on and the looks of
00:40:42.700 some of the horror on people's faces but others were absolutely smug like almost enjoying it in
00:40:49.480 a weird way like it was it was so messed up but anyway all that being said is that um
00:40:55.320 you know there has to be that kind of uh very visceral you know put a face put a put a name
00:41:03.740 on what's going on and really show it and once we see it for how ugly it actually is
00:41:11.020 you know we we we change within ourselves if we could appreciate that still like one of my pals 0.70
00:41:18.620 he was um he was totally a white supremacist neo-nazi type he wore the suspenders and cut
00:41:25.800 his hair in the same way wore the jack boots and so on and so forth and what actually changed for
00:41:30.980 him was um that he couldn't reconcile his belief in god in creation in christianity and these
00:41:39.460 beliefs that he had about white supremacy like at the end of the day he just couldn't reconcile
00:41:44.520 all those things and it became one or the other and so he chose um he chose the the flavor that
00:41:54.000 he could that he could and you know he's enjoyable to be around sometimes that nazi stuff comes out
00:42:00.000 of him like just that out of the back of his mind still but um i'll just quickly make fun of him and
00:42:07.160 and we'll have a conversation about it well it's it's interesting because i think and and we talk
00:42:13.260 a lot of people talk about physical violence but and then very recently i think a lot of people
00:42:17.980 have been very much fixated and focused on language and the power of language like a
00:42:24.140 taking a person's language as you incredibly well know is genocide and and it's and it's genocide
00:42:31.020 from a from a cultural perspective but you eradicate those people nonetheless if you if
00:42:35.500 you decimate their language and then being able to use language in today's context in order to
00:42:41.580 create hatred, in order to incite violence, in order to set up the precursors to, you know, 0.51
00:42:51.580 just crime or hate crimes or genocide. And I see them all as actual steps, just in a,
00:42:58.820 you know, in a progression of, I used to, I took a course on genocide, which was, you know,
00:43:05.640 really hard to get through. But one of the, they talk about the template, the template of a genocide
00:43:11.420 is the same everywhere. And the very first thing you do, the very first thing you have to do
00:43:17.120 is you dehumanize a person or a group of people with language in order to make them,
00:43:25.980 to paint them as subordinate beings. Because you have to convince everybody else that they are
00:43:32.480 less than. And whether we're talking about the Jews in Germany, whether we're talking about 0.96
00:43:36.800 the Vietnamese and Japanese in the East, whether we're talking about indigenous people, you have
00:43:42.260 to paint them as less than. And that language that people just discount as free speech, as
00:43:49.180 whatever you want, that language is the first step. So a friend of mine and I were talking about this
00:43:56.440 whole, should language be censored? Should it be dictated? Should it be enforced by the government?
00:44:04.000 And my point is this. First of all, nobody's getting thrown in jail for saying a word. That's never happening. What we were focused on was in academic institutions, if you are a professor and you insist upon calling, for example, a young trans woman he because, you know, they used to be a he and that's just where your principles lie and you're not willing to change for them.
00:44:29.720 A lot of people don't see that as the potential and the spark of violence unless you're trans, right?
00:44:39.200 And a friend of mine is like, well, you can't force that. 0.65
00:44:41.040 I said, okay, given the same parameters, are you allowed to use the N-word when talking about Black students?
00:44:48.780 Soft A, not the hard ER.
00:44:51.800 And her response was, of course not.
00:44:54.160 I'm like, why?
00:44:55.800 Why is that word not okay?
00:44:57.800 Because I agree it's not okay.
00:44:59.440 but why not because you see it as an act of violence rightly so but for some reason because 0.99
00:45:06.080 most of us aren't trans most of us haven't lived that experience we haven't seen the civil rights
00:45:11.040 movement we haven't seen you know tens of thousands of young black men going to the vietnam war
00:45:16.560 we haven't seen the the media representation of that just like you said we haven't seen it we
00:45:23.600 we haven't, it's not visceral yet. So I don't think we yet count it as being violent. Does
00:45:31.040 that make sense? Yeah. Something that really came to my attention, you'd even said the
00:45:41.280 word was the parameters of what we're talking about. So I think when we get into things
00:45:47.940 like um when i've i i used to be pretty active on twitter it's a hard place to exist yeah once i
00:45:58.180 joined ceremony in a more official kind of way i couldn't be around violence any longer
00:46:06.420 so i can't be around when people are fighting or um you know in dangerous situations things like
00:46:12.420 that because like we want to protect ceremony people but it's a very high voltage place and
00:46:17.460 we're dealing with pretty you know powerful energies here yeah and so i realized i can't
00:46:25.060 because one of the fun things that i would do was i would get into it for sometimes hours with neo
00:46:30.100 nazis like just slowly just going back and forth with them chipping away and chipping away yeah
00:46:36.820 and it can't um i couldn't do that any longer because it's that's violence like just just
00:46:42.180 being on Twitter alone can be really, really violent space. But I realized at some point that
00:46:49.580 we're not talking about the same thing when we're talking about racism. They think racism is this
00:46:56.080 thing, like wearing a KKK hood or walking around with a swastika. And they don't recognize the
00:47:05.700 subtleties or the everyday what is going on within the experience of indigenous people or black
00:47:13.280 people what's going on in that everyday experience that they're having and they also view racism or
00:47:21.320 what have you in a historic sort of way that it's like oh you have uh okay there was oppression back
00:47:29.380 then residential schools were bad we'll give you that there was historical oppression but none of
00:47:34.400 that exists today. So what's your problem now? And they really do. It's because of the parameters
00:47:44.260 that they're operating within. So going back to, you know, talking about the language of things
00:47:52.580 is that somebody had asked me at one time in my life
00:47:59.160 how is or i'd seen a discussion i don't know if somebody asked me
00:48:05.920 but how is colonization going on today and how it's going on today right now
00:48:13.160 this very moment is that i
00:48:16.540 am not wearing blackfoot clothing i have my necklace on
00:48:23.920 i don't have that option to wear the clothing that my people did i'm the first generation to
00:48:33.540 speak english first in my family my dad spoke blackfoot first my mom spoke cree first all of
00:48:41.080 aunties and uncles spoke their language first and then they had to learn English so everybody in my
00:48:48.280 family from everybody older than you know of my dad's generation my mom's generation they're all
00:48:55.160 bilingual some of them are kind of trilingual even very smart people I speak some Blackfoot
00:49:04.360 I understand a lot of Blackfoot, but my first language was English.
00:49:13.540 I have to, Blackfoot people have social mores.
00:49:20.340 We have ways of being.
00:49:24.460 We have customs.
00:49:26.660 We have traditions.
00:49:27.680 But I have to give uptake to Canada's laws.
00:49:34.360 and canada's ways of being canada has imposed itself upon us and no matter what i do i have
00:49:48.020 to give uptake to what they're doing i do have to pay taxes i do have to follow the social mores
00:49:56.480 and the laws that are prescribed i can't just take my tribe and go live in our territory there's no
00:50:03.740 buffalo out there but our territory is dissected and bisected with highways and fences and private
00:50:13.200 property and crown land so there's absolutely no way that i could be wearing our clothing
00:50:26.200 speaking our language, following our way of life to the fullest extent that I can, 0.98
00:50:33.880 that I could be, if, if I went back in time and saw pre-colonial Blackfoot people, I don't think
00:50:39.920 they would recognize me. They, I don't think that they would understand that I am of them because 0.99
00:50:46.080 I have, I'm so different in some ways than who they were, but I could recognize them because
00:50:53.400 I could start to talk with them in their language I could do the protocol show them of what culture
00:51:00.640 that I have been given over time and it's not that long ago you know like 1884 isn't very long ago at
00:51:08.100 all when we're put on reserve the last buffalo hunters died in the 1960s and 70s you know like
00:51:14.880 it's not a very long time ago and so all that being said is that I would give anything to be
00:51:24.880 like how our people were I would give anything to be living that life that we had but I'm coerced
00:51:33.040 into being in this way and so it's like yeah I could technically choose my clothes I could have
00:51:39.340 been wearing a t-shirt I could have been wearing a hoodie I could have been wearing whatever is
00:51:43.740 available to me technically i but i could have done some of this interview in a little bit of
00:51:51.180 black but okay what is going on is that they've put these parameters in here saying that you could
00:51:59.400 interact in any way any any anywhere you want all of your freedom is in here within these strict
00:52:06.980 parameters absolutely and that's where i think people are not fully understanding you know
00:52:16.580 they're not fully understanding what you're talking about when you're talking about
00:52:19.940 intergenerational trauma they're not fully understanding about what they're talking
00:52:23.460 about when colonization is still going on and how we're prevented from fully being who we are
00:52:30.580 you know but in turn the landscape has changed as well you know there's a lot of change that
00:52:37.380 has happened and for our own survival we have adapted to this the best that we can
00:52:44.580 you know and that's one that's probably the main reason why we survived is our ability to adapt
00:52:51.780 to adapt absolutely and i think it's interesting because you you spoke eloquently about
00:52:58.980 having conversations and what you realized is in order to have conversations with people genuine
00:53:06.260 articulate uh you know useful conversations you have to be operating under the same definitions
00:53:13.700 and when you disagree about the language and the definitions you can't possibly have a conversation
00:53:19.860 so if nobody understands racism and nobody understands intergenerational trauma or nobody
00:53:24.820 understands what language means and what it what it gives to people it's really hard if not
00:53:32.500 impossible to have an authentic conversation and you end up talking to people and it's like talking
00:53:40.580 to a bit of a wall and then they get very defensive right they get very defensive of
00:53:44.980 i'm not racist my my family's not racist i don't do this i don't walk this way my friends don't
00:53:51.780 walk this way right and it's because of the way we've set up the language that is the problem
00:53:58.340 because you know when people talk to me about racism or people talk to me specifically in
00:54:02.740 canon we speak about you know aboriginal indigenous issues and i do it quite often
00:54:09.140 i don't feel i don't feel guilty i feel responsible and i often try to impress that
00:54:17.940 and i'll explain what i mean by that i can't feel guilty for something i wasn't a part of
00:54:24.180 don't feel guilty about that i never it doesn't even make sense to me but
00:54:28.820 i can feel responsible for the way things are now i can be responsible for the role i play in that
00:54:36.740 or my parents play in that or the government play i can feel responsible for wanting to create a
00:54:42.660 society that is better without feeling guilty that i did it and i don't think many people
00:54:49.300 can separate those two realities you know they immediately go to guilt and then they get
00:54:55.700 defensive and you can't talk to somebody like that you know you're talking about the guys
00:54:59.860 on twitter you can't have that conversation anymore well i think it's also interesting um
00:55:06.660 um just the aversion to guilt itself and so with people making it about guilt i wonder because
00:55:15.440 like that's a tactic that the you know the alt-right the jordan peterson types have like
00:55:20.180 what you were referring to before is escalating and changing the parameters so here's the reality
00:55:27.140 of what they're doing and this was escalated changed manipulated into something else almost
00:55:33.780 a different just on the verge of being a different conversation absolutely they have yeah and so
00:55:40.000 then you're not actually arguing about the reality of the situation you're arguing about something
00:55:46.340 something else yeah and you're arguing about a fictional sci-fi built what if what if what if
00:55:55.400 happened and you're winding everybody up in the fear of that rather than dealing in what is and
00:56:03.000 the intention of that is that because he has now set the parameters over here there's no way that
00:56:11.080 he could lose that argument to any satisfaction because it's not based in fact it's not based in
00:56:17.840 reality he created the fiction and said well you can't argue my fiction right i just i'm sorry i'll
00:56:23.500 write a different story and we'll argue about it over here but doesn't make any sense but what it
00:56:27.820 does is it's kind of weird and unfortunately very, very smart. It has the potential and the ability
00:56:37.100 to use a fiction that doesn't exist to support a reality so we do not have to look at externalities
00:56:48.180 of that reality to support what we think is, not what actually is. When people say the good old
00:56:55.460 days. I love it when people come at me and say, I wish school was like it was in the 60s. And I'm
00:57:00.460 like, well, your teachers could hit you. What did you like about the 60s? Did you like about,
00:57:07.060 what was it, you know, let's make America great again, that whole thing. I'm like,
00:57:11.200 what are we trying to get back to culturally? Are we trying to get back to when minorities 1.00
00:57:17.520 had fewer rights? What are you trying to get back to with that slogan? And for the most part,
00:57:23.260 when we talk about the West, we're not really trying to get back to a society. We're trying
00:57:27.580 to get back to a mindset because it taps into when we were kids, right? When you're 10 years
00:57:32.680 old and everything's perfect because you don't know any better. That's what they're tapping
00:57:36.620 into. And that is still a fiction. That is a fiction that never existed because you were
00:57:42.120 young and you were watching cartoons on a Saturday morning. You didn't have to worry about gas prices
00:57:46.660 and you didn't have to worry about the war in Vietnam and you didn't have to worry about
00:57:49.980 residential school yes you didn't know so as a person they're tapping into this unconscious
00:57:56.460 happy place we all have and using it against us in a way to halt any kind of progress
00:58:07.020 it's really quite sadistically brilliant yeah there's well there there's a historical
00:58:16.180 precedent for this kind of stuff um medieval europe you know like very just before the
00:58:24.780 renaissance didn't know a whole lot about the romans right and so they picked and chose different
00:58:31.600 things about them and created a narrative about the romans that wasn't true right and it became
00:58:39.400 this kind of so then this culture that they had born out of that was based on this picking and
00:58:46.800 choosing of stuff they didn't really understand right and giving accolades and credit to a
00:58:54.600 culture like you know like we use um we use the the alphabet the number system that we have that
00:59:05.500 comes from the middle east of course yes it's not from the romans you know like democracy has sprung
00:59:12.020 up in different places throughout the world uh the kind of democracy that they use in the united
00:59:17.320 states is directly from the six nations not from greece you know not from ancient greece and
00:59:25.320 so there's this kind of um manipulation of history and romanticization of it
00:59:31.960 that has happened historically and it but then it kind of takes it off into this sort of tangential
00:59:39.840 from the now you know because like when people talk about here um oh indigenous people lost
00:59:48.100 their culture i i sort of bristle at that because that's not necessarily true so you have you know
00:59:57.960 the colonial culture coming along uh colonization capitalism all those different things sort of
01:00:05.120 forms of capitalism that they had at the time because it wasn't that wasn't like this official
01:00:10.060 thing that we understand capitalism to be but there was this meeting that had happened with
01:00:17.820 indigenous people going along doing their thing and it's not that we joined up with them and 0.83
01:00:24.040 Because that's kind of what they wanted to do. 0.99
01:00:25.640 They wanted us to assimilate into die or assimilate.
01:00:28.960 And eventually, once they realized they couldn't kill us off, they tried and tried and tried to fully kill us off.
01:00:34.800 When they realized they couldn't do that, then the efforts became assimilation. 0.95
01:00:40.000 Because it's a lot easier. 0.99
01:00:42.240 This is why they sent missionaries in first.
01:00:45.240 Why they always sent missionaries in first is because it's a lot easier to get the people to believe in what you believe in.
01:00:52.920 because you could find like paintings of saint george and quetzalcoatl saint george overtaking
01:00:59.740 the dragon um this is where hunting for easter eggs came from in jesus you know jesus comes out
01:01:07.200 of the tomb and sees his shadow and we have winter for six months um that's not how it goes but
01:01:12.680 they obviously had come version well they had obviously come into contact with people whose
01:01:20.620 ceremony was because the eggs are the first available protein in the spring yeah so there
01:01:29.260 is a there was a culture of people who would go out there and have an egg hunting ceremony to get
01:01:34.380 the first available protein happens around the spring when the rabbits are still white
01:01:39.740 so they took these cultural symbols and put them into their own stuff which the catholics
01:01:46.620 have a huge yeah in order to get them to assemble say so look we're just like you we have these
01:01:52.560 things as well we believe what you believe so come and join the real faith right so they send
01:01:59.580 missionaries in because it's very very expensive to just have all-out war with people why have all
01:02:07.560 out war with them when you could turn them to fighting for you first so send the missionaries
01:02:13.960 in first because then they'll they'll turn and it'll avoid a costly warrant so they want that
01:02:21.320 to happen but that's not what happened with us we continued on our ways and we were forced 0.73
01:02:27.480 to adopt stuff from them but essentially it was blackfoot people then to blackfoot people now
01:02:36.920 being coerced into adapting for survival you know so this idea of losing culture isn't necessarily 0.76
01:02:45.800 the thing it's that we had had to adapt we changed you know it's it's a changing of culture that it
01:02:54.680 happened right and that changing of culture that had happened is um because we're still directly
01:03:01.240 you know the lineage is still directly to to our old people and the lineage is still directly there
01:03:10.200 however it has been it's it's a new context that we're in now and you know for good or ill
01:03:20.600 as much as i don't like it this is still the reality of the situation you know and that's
01:03:26.360 i think something that people also don't seem to understand and this is going back to jordan
01:03:31.480 peterson this is going back to that alt-right idea of taking the argument out here set up the
01:03:38.600 parameters out here and be very busy talking about this while the reality is still happening
01:03:45.960 you know while the reality is going on it creates that tangent that that othering
01:03:52.440 And I think it's obviously specifically done because if I can keep your arguing and I can keep your attention out here, life as I like it or as I know it can continue on. Right? If I'm arguing up here, we don't change this, whatever this is in whatever capacity.
01:04:08.440 capacity. I know I've had you on here for a long time, but I want to ask you a quick opinion about
01:04:12.920 what's just happened with the group of Indigenous people that have gone to Rome and the apology from
01:04:20.280 the Pope. How do you see that? What's your takeaway from that? Like right now, like I didn't
01:04:32.180 think he'd apologize, to be honest. When I heard about this, I'm like, he's not saying sorry. So
01:04:36.640 I was a little surprised by that. Not that that really is this huge life altering thing, but what,
01:04:41.880 what do you think about that? Cause that's language, right? And it's, it's language that's
01:04:46.640 never been spoken before for some reason. Do you, do you think that has significance or do you think
01:04:52.900 it's just lip service? Well, it's a big one, right? I don't like, I haven't even spoke about
01:05:05.160 it much because I can't quite grasp. One of the men from our reserve, he was appointed a judge
01:05:14.780 actually in Alberta. He was a lawyer and they used to call him chief when he was in residential
01:05:23.200 school. He later became a lawyer and he was appointed a judge. And I think he is actually
01:05:29.100 kind of sick now so he's not really working but there was an older priest who he had met at some
01:05:35.820 dinner like after becoming a lawyer and so this guy had a big ring on he would wear this big ring
01:05:42.300 like like with a kind of a big jewel on it and the priest saw his ring and he said oh can i see your
01:05:47.100 ring and so he goes sure because he knew the priest from when they're in residential school
01:05:53.340 so the priest took the ring and he looked at it and he put it on his finger he looked at it
01:05:57.680 And then he looked at this.
01:05:58.920 This priest is like 60s.
01:06:01.280 In his late 60s, this guy is in his like 30s.
01:06:04.500 The priest looks at this full grown man and then he bashes him on the head with the ring.
01:06:08.940 And then he gives it back to him. 0.96
01:06:10.780 Just kind of like the good old days, eh?
01:06:13.940 Make America great again.
01:06:16.080 Like that relationship.
01:06:19.140 The priests had full control, even in town.
01:06:23.600 the priest in this city would influence the mayor because they were catholic so the mayor would have
01:06:31.100 a problem or the priest wanted something done he would go and he would tell the the mayor what to
01:06:36.800 do so there was a time when the catholic church had this real unquestionable power over society
01:06:47.200 and in the last while lethbridge has become more of a mormon place you know there's there's a big
01:06:53.100 mormon influence um but i what i've noticed about the catholic church is that that unquestionable
01:07:01.900 unquestionable power that they had they no longer have like that for some reason or another
01:07:11.100 that power has shifted and i think a lot of priests um you know maybe jesuits or people
01:07:19.500 who study at the vatican or in the vatican they'll tell you it's because uh you know it's not old
01:07:25.740 church values or the devil has infiltrated the church and there's people who are possessed who
01:07:30.620 are now leading it they'll have all of these sorts of um all of these sorts of explanations
01:07:37.420 what i personally think it is is that you give power whatever you're giving your time and effort
01:07:43.740 to you're giving physical life force to it you're giving power to it and so because people were
01:07:51.260 forced to be in catholic church on sunday they were giving their life power to the church from
01:07:56.720 the ground up and it's because that they were collected in that building that they gave that
01:08:02.480 their energy to it they gave their life to it literally and now that's not happening there
01:08:08.860 aren't people the pews aren't full everywhere you know like there's fewer and fewer people
01:08:13.900 because they can't reconcile again like my even my neo-nazi friend they can't reconcile
01:08:19.760 their beliefs with this what has happened what we found out about um the
01:08:28.680 i think the movie the exorcist is actually about child abuse it's about how adults fail children
01:08:40.560 and every adult in that movie fails the girl some way if you paid close attention to the
01:08:50.960 subtext yeah yeah and there's even the psychiatrists they were outright abusing her the the mother was
01:08:59.500 neglectful the father was really neglectful and in the book it's even kind of more obvious that
01:09:05.020 I think it's different ways that people fail their children and that it is it's about child
01:09:10.880 abuse and that's why the old priest dies because I think they're kind of suggesting that once he
01:09:17.900 sends the young priest out of the room, the girl's tied to the bed, he puts his hand, he holds her
01:09:22.560 hand. I think that it's suggested that Father Marin, the old priest, is a pedophile priest. 0.60
01:09:28.840 And that in that moment where you don't see what's going on, where he dies. Because when exorcists
01:09:35.240 go into an exorcism, they have to fast and pray beforehand. No food or water, they pray beforehand.
01:09:41.620 and they're willing to live they they have to put their life on the line the person who's
01:09:49.280 possessed puts their life on the line the exorcist puts their life on the line and who they want to
01:09:55.180 walk away is this invading entity so because he died the old priest i think that he had done his
01:10:04.020 misconduct and that was his last chance that's why he died anyway there's themes of abuse all over
01:10:13.100 the exorcist and that was something that at that time in 19 the late 60s when it was written
01:10:20.540 1973 when it was made 74 they weren't talking about that they weren't talking about the
01:10:28.900 the abuse there were some people who were unquieted tones but they were certainly punished
01:10:35.360 if they had brought this up their experience up so it wasn't until well into the 90s that we had
01:10:43.140 any sort of whiff of what the church was up to historically when people started talking about
01:10:49.620 like hey what about this you know so only now do we realize that there has been a very
01:10:59.620 lengthy history of child abuse within the catholic church like just from the top down
01:11:07.160 if i'm not mistaken that's why cardinal ratzinger resigned as pope
01:11:12.120 because he was subpoenaed by the international criminal court to answer for um because they
01:11:20.440 at the end of the paper trail he was the one cardinal ratzinger was the one who was moving
01:11:25.020 pedophile priests around different diocese giving the order so the icc had subpoenaed him to answer
01:11:32.440 for this so he stepped down and it was around easter so my joke at that time was oh i guess
01:11:36.980 the pope gave up being pope for lent but um that's how we got pope francis so if i'm not mistaken
01:11:46.720 there could be other explanations that people may have had that's from what i understand had happened
01:11:51.460 anyway so with this apology i think it's definitely meaningful coming from
01:12:04.000 who we're dealing with you know like I started off with that story of that priest who had just
01:12:10.700 like wrapped the head of this full-grown man because that was the kind of power that he had
01:12:16.900 that was the kind of abuse that he could wield unquestioned he's just like oh I could hit you
01:12:21.420 over the head anytime I want to you know and the kind of stuff that they did um you know like I've
01:12:30.140 been collecting residential school stories from my aunts and from older people and there's some
01:12:36.580 really truly horrific stuff that um people have no idea about like absolutely no idea about
01:12:45.400 and for what they had gotten away with for so long having this apology and admitting that
01:12:53.980 they're wrong that's a huge thing given the history of who they are you know that that's a
01:13:01.120 pretty big deal given given what they have become you know not even just what they say about
01:13:08.520 themselves yep but just given what they've done what they do and so that alone I think is a huge
01:13:18.660 thing how an apology is fine what i would like to see is that all of the land holding that they
01:13:25.860 have in canada in the united states all of the land holdings that they have give it to the
01:13:31.620 indigenous people whose land that is there we go that's that would be there's the there's the
01:13:38.260 apology right there's the there's the i'm really sorry and i watched it and it did seem you know
01:13:43.780 And I, whether it was heartfelt from him, the fact that the institution decide that's huge, but you have to have, there has to be action. And I would agree with, I would agree with the illegitimacy and the symmetry of that action.
01:14:00.260 You know, like it seems it's not over, you know, it's not like this ridiculous set of reparations that nobody can.
01:14:10.720 It's not talking about that.
01:14:11.820 It's talking about something very practical, very clear and very, you know, fair, very just.
01:14:23.040 See, Stephen Harper was the prime minister who had apologized for Canada's role in residential schools.
01:14:30.820 Yeah.
01:14:31.100 And so what had happened was that just before that had happened, there was a class action lawsuit of residential school survivors who had gotten together.
01:14:43.480 So the Harper government quickly calculated that if they do a class action lawsuit and are on the hook, they knew full well they're on the hook for probably billions, if not into trillions of dollars, given the amount of survivors that there are and the atrocities done.
01:15:02.240 So what they decided to do is like, OK, there's no way out of this.
01:15:05.620 We have to acknowledge it.
01:15:07.580 We're going to settle. 0.88
01:15:09.460 So there's the Indian residential school settlement payment.
01:15:12.860 that went that were capped at I think $250,000 maybe $300,000 per person that would be way
01:15:23.480 cheaper than going through this um I didn't even know it was that much from what I read it was
01:15:30.440 like well maybe that that was the new settlement like I read I read $13,000 per person if you were
01:15:38.020 still alive yeah there was a basic one a basic level that was a basic threshold that everybody
01:15:43.480 got yeah but how they made it more do you know how they made it to be more was how much abuse
01:15:51.240 you got so trigger warning this is pretty gross um this is about sexual assault and rape 0.99
01:15:58.300 our old people were asked this question did the priest ejaculate inside you 0.99
01:16:05.640 if he did you got two thousand five hundred dollars if he pulled out oh if he pulled out
01:16:15.200 you did not get that two thousand five hundred dollars because what they set up across canada
01:16:22.060 were these uh kind of commissions these boards this is before the truth and reconciliation
01:16:26.680 commission oh yeah yeah yeah these people my parents and people of my parents and grandparents
01:16:33.760 generation they had to go to this sort of tribunal and tell this tribunal about the abuse that they
01:16:41.820 experienced and this tribunal then would check off boxes and tally up what their abuse was valued at
01:16:50.620 to a certain extent there's there's the the questions are one thing how on god's green earth
01:16:57.900 do you sit down and go okay so we need to come up with a number a number that signifies 0.55
01:17:05.500 a priest ejaculating into a young what i know that number what two thousand dollars 0.65
01:17:11.020 and all let's say 2500 to round up are you and what year would that have been in 0.79
01:17:16.780 this was in the 2000s right i'm guessing i can't remember the exact year i'm thinking around
01:17:23.020 2009 ish yeah yeah it was around there mid to mid 2000s yeah before 2010 here's the reality
01:17:36.640 speaking of here's the reality of the situation that when people say how cool how's colonialism
01:17:45.780 still going on. There's the reality. There's the reality. A bunch of government officials
01:17:52.800 knew what happened, heard what happened, heard the stories. Because let's be honest,
01:17:57.460 we've heard a few stories outside of the Indigenous community. I realize people within
01:18:02.460 the community have heard this forever, but the stories that we've gleaned, that we've gained
01:18:06.700 access to. And to not have those stories as being fundamental truths put in historical context,
01:18:19.420 put in the classroom, put on the governmental website, put every single... Forget the money
01:18:25.120 for a second. Let's really talk about accountability because $2,500, you can shove it
01:18:31.700 for what just happened like are you joking but let's put some accountability on that
01:18:37.600 and the accountability is sure as hell not Stephen Harper with the least authentic apology I've ever
01:18:43.280 seen in my entire life giving minimal sums of money to people that have endured that
01:18:47.780 I can't and for people to say it's in the past it's in the past no it's not
01:18:54.720 well i mean my parents are alive today and they both went you know like the one on our reserve
01:19:03.160 closed in 1988 so i was three had it been a couple more years open i would have gone you know
01:19:09.260 but all that being said is that the harper government realized what was coming in the most
01:19:14.960 minimal way that they could to prevent having to lose this calculation they they gave this a very
01:19:23.260 facile shallow apology and here pay them off so i really didn't like that money i didn't want
01:19:29.980 anybody to take it like because um there's a huge amount of poverty among indigenous peoples across
01:19:37.980 canada and what are you supposed to do when faced with uh poverty or get a few thousand dollars
01:19:46.300 they're going to take the few thousand dollars a lot of people died because of that money a lot
01:19:53.300 of people died because you're giving money to poor people you're giving money to people where
01:20:00.400 who are already struggling with addictions mental health once some one guy there is a man
01:20:08.120 uh okay i have a little closer tie to this uh the trc and the meeting with the pope that i that i
01:20:19.220 wasn't so forthcoming about is that my mom's brother is a jay wilton little child oh wow so
01:20:25.840 he was one of the commissioners for the trc and he's there i think he's still in rome right now
01:20:30.420 actually truth and reconciliation commission just spoke to everybody's yeah he had told us so we're
01:20:36.440 sitting there having dinner one night and he had told us there was a man that had gone to one of
01:20:41.440 these tribunals talked about his abuse and they were tallying up how much it was ready for he
01:20:49.840 hadn't confronted it the entirety of his life he went home and he killed himself because it was the
01:20:56.240 very first time that he talked about it and that was a common thing that had happened like people
01:21:04.000 died because of it you know like it was something that felt very dark very gross very gnarly and i 0.80
01:21:11.180 didn't but after the indian residential school settlements happened then the trc happened and
01:21:17.480 the trc i like because what he had told me next push right yeah what he had told me was that the
01:21:23.820 94 calls to action they didn't come from the commissioners they didn't come from the government
01:21:29.720 they came from the people themselves the people who were affected they put these calls to action
01:21:36.160 forward saying this is what we want the government to do because this is what we experience what we
01:21:42.700 got out of this what we what we see at this point in this time is what we want to see happen and
01:21:49.260 thus far the Canadian government hasn't acted on most of those but in different ways oh and the
01:21:56.180 other thing is all of the calls to action are particularly directed at educators they're not
01:22:04.660 necessarily directed at governments they're directed at educators teachers are the ones
01:22:09.820 that they want to know this the most well they should that being said i had this story because
01:22:16.480 during the indian residential school settlement my uncle not wilton little child one of my uncles
01:22:23.960 from here he was hired to kind of let people know about what they were doing so he would go drive
01:22:32.520 around and collect stories about residential school and then tell them that they're going
01:22:37.160 to have this tribunal they're going to have these settlement payments and so he was sort of hired
01:22:43.320 as a government scout kind of to go into the community and he was working with this white
01:22:48.360 man from indian affairs so they were collecting these stories but this guy this white guy was
01:22:55.080 just like whatever it's just another job like he didn't really care about it it was like well yeah
01:22:59.880 yeah whatever whatever and typical kind of a southern alberta dude they go to st mary's
01:23:07.400 residential school and they go down it was still there for a long time they built once they closed
01:23:16.920 it they built red crow college so i did upgrading there before i went to university for a year
01:23:23.560 so i spent a year in my dad's residential school and just like it was a wild place because they
01:23:29.480 weren't they were never able to fully renovate it so i saw all of it was all the same stuff
01:23:34.840 just that they added new tables and except the crazy thing was that somebody had set fire to
01:23:40.520 the chapel years ago and so where the uh altar was in the chapel was all burned and there's these
01:23:47.320 black marks that went all the way up to the ceiling and it was so wild to be in there because
01:23:53.160 i would look at it i would go i would kind of break in there and look around and think like you know
01:23:58.680 the one this place where like god didn't want this chapel being here you know with what they did in 0.93
01:24:04.760 this in this building but so my uncle and this and this white fella they're going around touring 0.84
01:24:13.640 they go down to the basement and they go down to the boiler room my uncle goes around because
01:24:20.040 they're doing a tour of the building he goes around the corner and just kind of looking around
01:24:24.200 this stuff over here the white man standing at the entrance and right in front of the man is the
01:24:30.440 the in front of the white man was the incinerator my uncle comes around the corner and he turns to
01:24:38.120 look at the white man right at that moment a little boy wearing a long sleeved white shirt
01:24:47.500 with no collar like that kind of mandarin collar you know he was wearing suspenders and black pants
01:24:53.680 and the boots that they gave he was wearing the uniform that they gave the kids and he had his
01:25:00.140 hair cropped to the side like they had just cut off his braids. This boy crawled out of the ashes
01:25:05.720 and then he stood up just a little toddler and he looked at the white man and he put his arms up
01:25:13.200 like to be picked up and he walked towards him and stopped and wanted to be picked up
01:25:18.300 and the white man's looking at him and then immediately that boy disappears like he was
01:25:24.140 never there. And the white man, he just lost what color he had in his face. He lost. He looked over
01:25:31.840 to my uncle and he said, did you see that? And my uncle said, yeah. So immediately he turned,
01:25:39.260 he walked out and he walked all the way out into the middle of the field. He was bawling and bawling
01:25:45.280 and bawling and bawling and crying. And so my uncle just kind of waited and it took him like
01:25:51.980 a good hour over an hour to come back he gets back to the vehicle and his eyes are all red
01:25:58.600 and splotchy he's he's he's all swollen from crying and he turns to my uncle and he said if
01:26:06.140 they ever do anything like a ceremony or something to commemorate to heal what had happened here
01:26:12.820 I want to be part of that my uncle said okay but that day the man quit the job because he knew that
01:26:21.060 he couldn't, he couldn't, he had no business dealing with this. And, um, you know, that story
01:26:30.400 is, I, it's, it's a ghost story. Okay. I don't really, uh, care whether or not people believe
01:26:44.280 stuff like that it doesn't really matter to me what matters to me is that the only way that this
01:26:54.360 guy could understand the gravity of what he was doing was to be shocked into it and the only way
01:27:05.560 that we can have any kind of reconciliation is to have the truth first and the truth comes down 0.95
01:27:13.080 to how we talk about things not in this weird set the parameters argue about this bullshit over here
01:27:20.700 but the actual reality of what's going on we have to stick within the parameters of truth
01:27:29.680 stay within truth speak truth as best as we can and report reality understand reality and report
01:27:38.780 reality with as little distortion as we possibly can because that um at the end of the day
01:27:47.500 that's what we have you know that's really what we have like i i sit there there's some of these
01:27:53.720 stories that i've told you and where i sat there and thought am i gaslighting myself is that really
01:27:58.380 how it happened and like no i'm gonna tell the story because that's the story that i was given
01:28:02.820 that's what i had experienced this is what i saw this is what was given to me i have to
01:28:10.660 be true to that and just for my own personal sense of being able to look in the mirror
01:28:18.660 you know to be able to be okay with myself okay and i think that people
01:28:26.500 for somewhere along the line in the last few years of this dialectic
01:28:32.820 of this ongoing dialectic, this ongoing fight, the Twitter wars, whatever.
01:28:40.480 People have really just steered away from that.
01:28:45.420 And I don't know whose fault that is.
01:28:47.700 You know, I don't know if there's anybody's fault.
01:28:49.820 I have some suggestions.
01:28:51.140 Yeah.
01:28:52.140 It's at the end of the day. 0.69
01:28:54.080 And, you know, maybe it's been Russia the whole time, too.
01:28:57.340 I kind of believe that, you know, because the order in order to destabilize
01:29:02.700 the west introduce this infighting you know because that's always been the divide and conquer
01:29:10.140 kind of way get them arguing about things that uh isn't that the nature of colonization
01:29:17.660 isn't that the nature of taking a people over i mean it's the nature it is it is the very nature
01:29:24.380 and i think and i appreciate i thank you so much for sharing the stories that you shared i know a
01:29:30.460 a lot of them, well, all of them are incredibly personal and incredibly important because
01:29:35.640 I think when they speak about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and they focus on
01:29:43.880 teachers, I think the way we need to focus on education is through those stories, is through
01:29:51.420 that personal history. It's not through analysis. It's not through, you know, getting wrapped up in
01:29:57.240 words. It's to listen to those stories that actually happen to people, sit and shut up and
01:30:06.000 hear them. And I think that's the most impressive, amazing, powerful form of education that everybody
01:30:16.800 in power is so horribly afraid of because they can't control the narrative, because they can't
01:30:23.520 control the, and then we lived happily ever after because we ain't there, but we have to hear those
01:30:30.540 stories. And we're so quick to, it's not now, it's not now, it's not now. Forget it's not now.
01:30:36.040 Listen to what was at the very least. How about that? Stop arguing about what's now to discount
01:30:43.480 what was and listen to those stories from a multitude of sources. You would have stories
01:30:52.080 from the Blackfoot, from the Cree, from the Ojibwe, from all over the place, from African
01:30:56.800 Americans, from women, from gay and lesbian. You start seeing these stories form and instead of
01:31:03.800 outrightly discounting them to prove a narrative, shut up and listen. Well, that's the intentional
01:31:10.180 thing because to get to now, you had to go through these steps. This is why people are talking about
01:31:16.480 that history is because that history leads to now so if you're discounting that history
01:31:22.240 then you can't be truthful about the now and on that i think that should be on a shirt by the way
01:31:30.420 on that amazing without you know without summarizing too much on that amazing end note i
01:31:37.780 would like to thank you so much for being a an hour and a half i mean i i have a feeling we
01:31:42.240 could probably sit here for about five hours but we'll do a part two we'll do a part two um part
01:31:47.720 seven uh i want to thank you marty for being here um i am going to put all the places people can
01:31:53.580 find you if you want to give them just a quick synopsis of where they can listen to you and
01:31:57.660 where they can gain access to you all right that's where i'm at lately uh i also have instagram
01:32:04.440 and what's your thing i think instagram is m heavyhead and then on tiktok it's uh martin
01:32:13.900 heavyhead jr i think there we go i will put them both in the comment section below um but
01:32:21.160 again i'll let you check that again i'm incredibly um just thankful that somebody with your and and
01:32:30.720 And what also amazes me is that you have this breadth of knowledge that seems to go from the Middle Ages to Blackfoot history to U.S. constitutional history.
01:32:40.460 I mean, you're all over the place because you understand, like most very intelligent people, is the pieces don't make sense, but the picture does.
01:32:48.900 So you got to learn as many possible pieces as you can in order to construct a truth that is closer to reflective of, you know, of the whole thing.
01:33:01.400 And I appreciate that.
01:33:02.440 I really thank you about that.
01:33:04.400 Yeah.
01:33:05.260 And for that.
01:33:06.720 Well, thank you for letting me be here.
01:33:09.560 And I hope it was what people wanted.
01:33:13.920 I don't know.
01:33:14.760 I have no doubt.
01:33:16.120 And whether it's what they wanted, here's what I tell you.
01:33:18.380 it's absolutely what they need. So I thank you very much. I will see everybody here. Same bad
01:33:24.980 time, same bad station next Tuesday. Thank you so much and have a great week. Dismissed.