Vulgar History - American Revolution, part 7： Benedict Arnold's Wife (pt 2⧸2)

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00:00:30.220 Hello, Tits Out Brigade. Before we start the episode, I have a big announcement to make.

00:00:35.500 I'm going on a trip. I'm going to be in England and I'm going to be in Scotland to research my

00:00:40.580 book that I'm writing. Did you hear? I'm writing a book about Carolina Brunswick. Anyway, while I'm

00:00:44.520 there, I know that some of you live in those places. And so I have penciled in some time

00:00:49.720 to meet up with Tits Out Brigade members in those cities, the cities being Edinburgh, Scotland and

00:00:55.440 london england so we'll be meeting in enborough scotland on wednesday august 21st and in london

00:01:02.100 england on wednesday august 28th details are still being figured out partially because i don't know

00:01:06.620 how many of you are going to be there which will mean where we meet or not but it's going to be

00:01:10.940 something like we'll meet somewhere in a public open space and like walk around looking at some

00:01:14.400 oldie timey things is my hope anyway details are still being figured out and if you want to take

00:01:20.120 part let me know um go to vulgarhistory.com slash meetup vulgarhistory.com slash m-e-e-t-u-p

00:01:27.020 and fill in the form for updates this is the first ever titsa brigade meetup meetups uh um

00:01:34.300 and i'm really excited to to make this happen so yeah vulgarhistory.com

00:01:38.240 slash meetup um to sign up for updates and to kind of rsvp so i know how many people to expect

00:01:50.120 hello and welcome to vulgar history of feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann

00:01:59.440 foster and this is part two of our discussion of peggy shippen who is is what's described to me 0.89

00:02:06.560 by one of you who sent me a message excited that we're talking about her she's the the original

00:02:11.160 the og scandalous lady of american revolution era and also as a few of you have told me

00:02:18.340 She does appear as a character in a miniseries that was called Turn, Washington's Spies, which I haven't watched, but which seems like it's kind of like the American Revolution.

00:02:29.240 But what if everyone was really hot?

00:02:31.040 And what's crucial about this is that, well, first of all, Nicia Solo plays Peggy Shippen.

00:02:36.640 She was on Lost Girl, a Canadian lesbian show that I enjoyed.

00:02:41.760 She's a cool person, a very cool looking person.

00:02:44.020 And I feel like Peggy Shippen would have been in good hands with her portrayal.

00:02:47.320 Also, John Andre is on the show, the character who I haven't done a recap at all of last week, but I feel like if you're jumping into part two of Peggy's ship and welcome. Last time we talked about her, she's trying to live her brat summer. And then it all got pretty derailed when she married Benedict Arnold and everything got really fucked up.

00:03:07.620 She ended up being a spy, kind of against her will. 0.99

00:03:10.140 She's a teen mom living in the woods.

00:03:12.400 But the shining light in this whole story of dirtbags is John Andre, hot British spy,

00:03:19.620 John Andre.

00:03:20.360 We're going to talk about him a lot more in this episode.

00:03:22.460 And I was really happy that the defining feature of his portrayal on the show Turn,

00:03:26.620 Washington Spies, is that he was hot.

00:03:29.120 And I was just really gratified to see that because talking about him, I just felt like

00:03:33.600 he was hot.

00:03:34.220 And so I'm glad that the makers of that show felt that as well.

00:03:37.280 and that that is how he can be remembered now also uh we're talking about philadelphia

00:03:42.440 there's a lot of philly in the episode in this week philadelphia really really the way that

00:03:49.240 people talk about philadelphia now like i think it's a city that as long as it's been around it

00:03:54.700 seems like it's been known for a citizenship a population that is just like they keep their

00:04:00.520 pots and pans right beside the door like they're ready 24 hours a day to riot if needed and we

00:04:06.480 get some of that in this week's episode. I feel like Gritty, the beloved mascot of Philadelphia,

00:04:12.480 I think it's of the Philadelphia hockey team, but I feel like it's of Philadelphia

00:04:15.620 in general, the big orange, like sort of Muppet googly eyed guy. I feel like Gritty,

00:04:21.820 the spirit of Gritty was definitely, definitely around in a lot of the stuff we're talking about

00:04:25.500 this episode. Anyway, Peggy Ship in part two. Take it away, me. 0.99

00:04:37.140 Anyway, and she knew her job was to help him. And she had to seem like a cute wife and use her 1.00

00:04:42.600 like hotness to distract people and make him seem less suspicious. And so one night, 0.91

00:04:48.620 she had quite a lot of work to do because Benedict Arnold, again, terrible at being a spot.

00:04:53.120 So they're having dinner, like a dinner party one night. And he like one of the guests was

00:04:57.200 a person who was like a suspected loyalist. And then Benedict Arnold was being like weirdly

00:05:01.660 friendly with him. And people are like, why is Benedict Arnold being so friendly with that

00:05:05.460 suspected loyalist is he like a spy they were already thinking and then a messenger arrived

00:05:09.960 at the door with a sealed letter which ben and arnold unsealed and read not out loud although 0.54

00:05:15.720 you'd think he would be dumb enough to do that he like looked at the letter in front of everybody

00:05:20.080 and he got all shifty eyed and then he like shoved the letter in his pocket he's like nope nothing 0.90

00:05:24.000 nothing to see here don't worry about what that letter just said and then he and some other guys

00:05:27.940 left leaving peggy behind like jittery and nervous and like this is just kind of she's doing her

00:05:35.400 best, but she is still, you know, an 18 year old new mom married to a spy who is a bad spy who just

00:05:41.820 did some bad spy stuff in front of other people. Anyway. So she was left behind and she started 0.91

00:05:46.840 chatting quote hysterically. Like she just started babbling really just like, Oh, what's,

00:05:51.940 what's Benedict Arnold doing? I don't know. Anyway. Like, did you see the new episode of

00:05:55.540 the housewives? It was great. And so people are like, Hmm, Peggy is like, seem nervous.

00:06:00.820 uh she just in terms of people to be a spy couple neither of them seem fundamentally suited to that

00:06:07.800 life like they're not like that show with carrie russell and her husband where they were like

00:06:13.080 russian spies that's not the vibe of these two he has a ben and arnold just kept being the most

00:06:18.140 obvious worst spy in various ways john andre is just like oh my god like this guy is a terrible

00:06:24.460 spy so there's a whole thing where benedict arnold had drawn like maps of west point and

00:06:30.500 what it looked like to get to the british the british would know how to better invade and

00:06:34.200 then he met under cover of darkness with john andre hot violin spy and like they met alongside

00:06:41.940 the bank of the river and then benedict arnold was like hey i think i should be paid more money

00:06:46.500 about my spy work and john andre is like no like can i have the maps or whatever and they argued

00:06:51.840 about this like it was nighttime when they met you know like 2 a.m or something and they kept

00:06:56.160 talking until like dawn broke and they're like okay we need to like stop doing this because

00:07:00.140 someone's gonna see us because we're bad spies anyway ultimately Bennington Arnold did give

00:07:05.260 these maps and information on West Point to John Andre who stuck who put these things in his boots

00:07:13.000 and there's a whole thing where John Andre he showed up and he was wearing his like red coat

00:07:18.560 like British army outfit, which is like, okay, interesting choice. But then they're like, no,

00:07:23.900 you should wear like a disguise. You should go in civilian clothes to deliver these to the British 1.00

00:07:27.880 army because then you'll be less suspicious or something. But again, I love you, John Andre,

00:07:32.740 but you are also not a good spy. Map drawing is your skillset, party planning. But anyway, so

00:07:39.120 things are very much on edge. Is there a play about this weekend? Because, you know, it's all

00:07:45.520 in one room in one house and just like everyone is getting increasingly unhinged. So the day

00:07:51.580 started, Benedict Arnold is back at home and he got into screaming argument with somebody about

00:07:56.260 the price of butter. And then some guests came by who were the Marquis de Lafayette and Alexander

00:08:01.620 Hamilton from musical Hamilton and George W. Like they're George W's friends and George W came as

00:08:08.440 well. And what had happened, the news they were coming there to share is that John Andre, so he'd

00:08:14.480 gone off in his like civilian clothes with the maps and stuff. And then he was caught by someone

00:08:20.480 and he was like, oh, I think these guys are probably loyalists. So he's like, hey, are you

00:08:23.980 guys also loyal to the British crown or whatever? And then the guys were like, no, actually we're

00:08:28.620 patriots. Like what's going on? And then they saw that he had papers in his boots and they took

00:08:32.740 them out, but those guys couldn't read. So at first it was fine, but then they like bought him

00:08:36.600 in and then it was discovered that these were maps of West Point. And so Benedict Arnold,

00:08:41.600 not necessarily compromised at this point, but like John Andre arrested. And so George W. Lafayette

00:08:47.680 and Alexander Hamilton came by to be like, whoa, man, did you know that that guy, John Andre,

00:08:51.300 the party planner was just caught with these maps. And Benedict Arnold was like, wow, crazy news. I'm

00:08:56.820 just gonna go to West Point and see you all later. And he just like peaces out before they know that

00:09:03.440 he's involved. Peggy, he had had time to talk to Peggy before he like made his exit. And so Peggy

00:09:10.380 is left behind. And we know fundamentally, like I would probably be similar. She's just like not

00:09:14.740 good under pressure. So she's just like, okay, what are we going to do? So she burned his like

00:09:19.920 secret spy letters in the bedroom fireplace. And then she's like, what, how are we going to handle

00:09:23.980 this? Peggy, what are we going to do? And so this is like one of the most famous things she did.

00:09:27.960 There's an episode of Drunk History about her doing this. And what she did was she's like,

00:09:31.100 I'm going to pretend like I just found out Benedict Arnold is a spy and I'm now insane.

00:09:37.520 that news made me go insane and have a nervous breakdown so and this works because like there

00:09:44.580 was recently that thing where she was just like babbling incoherently like she had that like 0.99

00:09:48.800 screaming fit at that party one time when she heard news about his job like she's known for

00:09:52.320 being a person who has fits and so she's just like i'm just gonna go for it so she just started 0.99

00:09:57.780 screaming um her hair is disheveled she like tore out her clothes she was raving and all the men in

00:10:03.080 the house were like oh man what's wrong with peggy shipping it seems like she's going through some

00:10:07.060 emotional distress and they were so distracted helping her that ben ed arnold was able to escape

00:10:12.800 meanwhile george w is like why like he was like meet you at west point and george w goes there

00:10:18.640 and he's like why ben ed arnold here hamilton lafayette told him about the betrayal like the

00:10:24.780 fact that like he had been in league with john andre and that they were gonna try and have the

00:10:30.240 british sees west point george w george w has it's his turn now lots of you know pressures are high

00:10:35.620 in all sides. He freaks out. He's yelling, like, go and catch Benedict Arnold. But our boy,

00:10:40.420 Benedict Arnold, was already on a prearranged ship out of town, headed to British-controlled

00:10:45.060 New York City. Meanwhile, Peggy Shippen is just, like, kept, like, playing up the part of, like,

00:10:51.180 hysterical person. Which also, I think, partially she was doing because that meant, like, if I

00:10:57.160 seem like I'm... This makes her seem, like, not implicated. It makes it seem like she didn't know

00:11:01.380 that Benedict Arnold was doing this. And in fact, George W., Hamilton and Lafayette came out to visit

00:11:06.260 her and they're like, oh wow, she has actually lost her mind. We're not suspicious of her

00:11:11.700 whatsoever. This is how we would assume a wife would react to learning her husband as a traitor.

00:11:17.280 And because everyone kind of loves Peggy, Hamilton was just like, oh, he wrote in the thing. He's

00:11:22.340 like, I'm so mad that Benedict Arnold betrayed America, but I'm even more mad that he betrayed

00:11:27.320 Peggy, his lovely teenage wife. Anyway, so she's just left there with baby Nettie. Benedict Arnold

00:11:33.880 has gone to New York and she's just like, what am I going to do? It's a real Mary Queen of Scots

00:11:39.160 deciding between France and England moment for her. She's like, do I go to New York to be with

00:11:45.280 my husband or do I go back to Philadelphia to be with my parents? And eventually she's like,

00:11:50.600 I'm going to go back to Philadelphia to be with my parents. And on the way there, she's taking

00:11:54.700 of the benedict arnold carriage which people recognized and they like jeered and called out

00:11:59.860 at it because he was already like everyone had found out that he was a traitor and everyone

00:12:03.800 hated him people didn't need a lot of reason everyone already hated him but now they also

00:12:08.940 hated him for being a traitor and i don't know how different carriages can look from each other

00:12:13.080 but i picture that the benedict arnold carriage was covered with you know like decals like a car

00:12:17.580 when it's advertising a real estate company or something anyway so she it took a while to get

00:12:22.560 from West Point to Philadelphia. So she had a baby with her. So at night, she would stop at

00:12:28.240 friends' houses. One of the places where she spent a night was with Theodosia Prevost, who is the

00:12:34.820 Theodosia from the song, Theodosia from Hamilton. She's like a married woman who Aaron Burr was in

00:12:40.360 love with, and then later he married. So allegedly, according to Theodosia's later husband, Aaron Burr

00:12:47.280 from the musical Hamilton, allegedly Peggy confided to Theodosia that she had been faking

00:12:52.920 being upset and she was tired of having to perform all the time and that she had corresponded with

00:12:58.900 John Andre, which some of this is maybe true, but also allegedly Aaron Burr had, um, there's a whole

00:13:06.580 thing about like, did Aaron Burr at one point try to seduce Peggy and she turned him down. So Aaron

00:13:10.840 was mad at Peggy. I don't know. Anyway, I just wanted to include that because it's Hamilton

00:13:15.540 and adjacent content anyway back in philadelphia the newspapers were just like this is amazing this

00:13:21.320 is like even bigger than scandoval this is like the biggest like we're gonna sell so many newspapers

00:13:27.680 talking about the story one of john andre's letters to peggy was discovered the one where he

00:13:33.400 was like hey let's talk about fabrics and stuff and nothing suspicious like there was nothing

00:13:38.220 suspicious in the letter but the fact that he had written a letter to her made her seem like she was

00:13:43.360 involved her family her powerful family the shipments were like no that was just a letter

00:13:47.380 about fabric and this is called the millinery letter and it's like if you read about peggy

00:13:51.520 shipping this comes up a lot it's sort of the casket letters of the story this is like before

00:13:56.820 she got there so philadelphia like again the vibe is so similar to those like sports things where

00:14:03.780 people in philadelphia flood the streets and just like climb the poles like this is their

00:14:07.920 and Philadelphia itself just causes people to behave this way. So, um, there was this sort of

00:14:13.040 impromptu, not so impromptu, actually like, just like we hate Benedict Arnold parade.

00:14:18.960 So a drum summoned Philadelphia residents to the streets where some arts and crafts people,

00:14:24.440 again, I would say John Andre, except he's currently under arrest and he was actually

00:14:28.160 on the same side. Some John Andre like arts and crafts person has created a dummy version

00:14:34.780 effigy of benedict arnold which is now parading through the streets in a wagon so this dummy

00:14:41.040 this very artistic had two faces it held a mask in his right hand in the left hand the figure

00:14:47.620 clutched a message from satan announcing his completion of mischief behind the dummy stood

00:14:53.600 satan shaking a bag of money at the general's left ear and grasping a pitchfork poised to drive the 0.99

00:15:00.080 traitor into hell. So they paraded this around and then later set it on fire. So quite a thing 0.99

00:15:05.820 that some very artistic person came up with. But also this gets into the whole thing about

00:15:12.760 the American founding fathers and how like the Declaration of Independence is like,

00:15:17.860 it has the authority of like the Bible or God, like the concept that the founding of America

00:15:22.840 was like divine somehow, like God wanted that to happen to the extent that Benedict Arnold

00:15:28.520 is now equated with satan like betraying america is the same as like betraying jesus um is the vibe

00:15:35.820 and this happened right away um but i guess tensions were already high and the city of

00:15:39.980 philadelphia already kind of hated him and then just like in that final scene in the movie cruel

00:15:45.200 intentions so people are going through benedict arnold's stuff his house like because he like

00:15:51.320 lived in philadelphia so among his letters they found a letter from peggy to him um and this

00:15:56.960 letter she's being sort of like catty and bitchy and talking about how the other women at a concert

00:16:01.020 like their outfits weren't as cute as her outfit or whatever and then this was published in the 1.00

00:16:05.100 newspaper and it's like peggy is a bitch like look at her writing this mean girl letter she's not 0.98

00:16:10.180 this sweet young victim she's actually this like mean girl and it's like yes she was but also 0.99

00:16:15.800 publishing it in the newspaper and also it's like her private letter it's like 0.71

00:16:19.860 showing somebody's dms it's just like well this was intended she was just being silly and writing 1.00

00:16:25.320 some like bitchy stuff to her husband. She's also at the time 17. Anyway, so Peggy goes back to her 0.93

00:16:31.680 parents' home and she goes into kind of a stupor. And I don't want to be like her various

00:16:37.380 psychological experiences are invalid. Like the time, like her throwing a tandem to get what she

00:16:42.500 wants from her dad is a thing. But her like having these like serious emotional responses to these

00:16:47.400 events is like this, she's an emotional person. Maybe she wouldn't have been living a more normal

00:16:53.320 life but this is quite a series of situations she's been in since the day she got married

00:16:57.680 so she just kind of went into a stupor understandable like if it was today she'd go to

00:17:02.000 her parents house and just like stay in her pajamas all day just like you know watching 0.98

00:17:06.840 friends episodes and just eating doritos like she's just like what the fuck is my life i used 0.96

00:17:13.100 to be this hot young like society girl and now like there's effigy of my husband with satan like 0.98

00:17:19.980 what is happening? To the confusion of everybody, she remained loyal to Benedict Arnold. She did not

00:17:27.800 turn away from him. She still kept supporting him. She still, when he wrote her a letter,

00:17:31.600 she would respond to it. And her family were like, really, Peggy, really? And then Emma Roberts and

00:17:36.660 the Supreme Executive Council kicked her out of Philadelphia. They, in fact, wrote a letter being

00:17:41.340 like, you can't live here, lady. Her being there was a public danger to others. And so she's like,

00:17:47.660 I guess I'm going to go to New York City. So she took her baby, Nettie, tearfully bid farewell to

00:17:52.920 her beloved dad, who still loved her as his favorite and went off to NYC. But I know you're

00:17:58.600 wondering what happened to John Andre. Now, John Andre, I forget if I said this, but in my survey,

00:18:04.980 only 12.6% of the 300 Americans surveyed had heard of John Andre. So I need to let you know

00:18:12.920 what happens to him because it's interesting so he was caught and ordered to be hanged as a traitor

00:18:20.380 which is interesting because how is he a traitor when he was actually a british person just doing

00:18:25.720 british like he wasn't a traitor like he was actually always on one side which was the british

00:18:30.900 side anyway so even before his execution though he had aroused the sympathy of british and american

00:18:36.580 people because what i just said it's kind of like well he's just kind of like doing his thing like

00:18:41.520 he's just being a British soldier and that's what he did. But he was ordered to be hanged

00:18:45.640 in Tappan, New York. If anyone has been there or lives there, shout out to Tappan, New York.

00:18:51.380 So he walked to the gallows. He was watched by apparently many sobbing women, one of whom

00:18:56.540 apparently gave him a peach. And when he was hanged, that peach later grew into a tree above

00:19:01.300 his grave. For there was a peach tree above his grave. And then he was buried where he was hanged,

00:19:06.360 basically in Tappan, New York, below the site of his hanging. And this tree and this hymn is

00:19:13.480 mentioned in the story, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow by Washington Irving, which is a story

00:19:18.280 with Ichabod Crane. And they talk about this tree was haunted by John Andre in that story,

00:19:24.740 apparently. Later on, years and years from now, we've got a lot more episode to go, but when Peggy

00:19:30.900 died and her children were going among her belongings, they found among her belongings,

00:19:35.040 the locket that John Andre had given her with a lock of his hair inside. So she was a good friend

00:19:40.920 to him. John Andre became a romantic hero in England because, you know, the story of him being

00:19:47.080 a spy and then being executed, but also he was like hot and like through parties. So people in

00:19:52.200 England were like, we, you know what? Fuck you, America. You killed our cool guy. So a tomb to 1.00

00:19:57.880 his memory was erected two years later in London, in Westminster Abbey. If I ever get to Westminster

00:20:03.420 abbey the number of people have talked about this podcast who have tombs there like i'm gonna have

00:20:08.820 to spend a day seeing them all the tomb was paid for by the person who was the king at this time

00:20:13.200 george the third aka farmer george from queen charlotte bridgerton story and the tomb it's got

00:20:18.840 like it's one of those carved things with like scenes on it it's like scenes of like george

00:20:23.860 washington and like a woman crying and like just showing john andre being a hero 40 years after

00:20:30.720 that, his remains were at the request of the royal family. His remains were moved from America

00:20:36.120 because he was buried in Tappan. His remains were moved to London. And then, so now he's buried in

00:20:42.100 Westminster Abbey as well. And there's like a little tile on the floor showing it says like

00:20:45.380 Major Andre, I think. And when they went to dig him up after this, on the banks of the Hudson

00:20:50.800 River, the roots of the peach tree had pierced the coffin. And so the peach tree was uprooted

00:20:56.420 and replanted in the King's Garden behind Carleton House in London. John André is often

00:21:03.940 remembered favorably by historians as a man of honor, unlike, for instance, Benedict Arnold.

00:21:09.920 John André was always loyal to the one side. Several prominent U.S. leaders of the time,

00:21:14.500 including Alexander Hamilton and the Marquis de Lafayette, did not agree with him being hanged.

00:21:19.720 In Tappan in 1879, so like 100 years later, on the site of his hanging, a monument was erected

00:21:26.120 and on the monument are lines from George W., which says, quote, he was more unfortunate than

00:21:31.440 criminal, an accomplished man and a gallant officer. So I wanted to tell you that to wrap

00:21:36.960 up the story of John Andre, a person who I had not heard of. And most of you had also not heard

00:21:43.220 of only 12.6% of American surveyed had heard of him. He just seemed like a cool guy. He's got a

00:21:49.520 bit of David Rizzio vibes about him. And like David Rizzio died very young, but also let's just

00:21:55.320 compare him to benedict arnold john andre cool guy benedict arnold you know i came to this episode

00:22:01.760 i'm like okay peggy ship it i know she's the wife of benedict arnold i vaguely thought like i think

00:22:06.320 she was maybe a spy i think i saw some drunk history and i was like you know these people

00:22:10.200 get a bad rap like benedict arnold like i know he's like famous his name is synonymous in the

00:22:14.720 u.s with um just being a traitor i think i'd first heard about him there's an episode of my favorite

00:22:20.540 show murder she wrote called i think benedict arnold slept here where there's a whole thing

00:22:25.720 about a house where he apparently slept at one point and anyway from that episode and also i

00:22:30.600 think he appears maybe in timeless the late lamented time travel tv show that used to be on nbc 0.98

00:22:36.440 i think he was involved in that so i just kind of had this vibe like benedict arnold oh he sucks he's

00:22:41.280 a traitor but then it's like oh but is this just like you know is this just history being shared 0.93

00:22:45.240 where it's like george w was and thomas jefferson were heroes and so that means benedict arnold has 0.99

00:22:50.080 to suck also but i'm here to tell you ben ed arnold was a traitor and also a shitty person 0.93

00:22:56.380 peggy just along for the ride in my opinion so anyway five days after the execution of 0.99

00:23:02.060 john andre ben ed arnold wrote a letter to the editor because he's the sort of guy and this you

00:23:07.920 know the whole newspapers of it all like of course he wrote a letter to the editor of a new york city 0.97

00:23:11.980 newspaper where he's just like blah blah blah you're all assholes i'm great john andre shouldn't 0.98

00:23:17.320 been killed blah blah he was now like he now officially switched sides he was now getting a 0.98

00:23:21.980 salary as a british army person when the salary was enough to pay for him to live in a townhouse

00:23:27.320 here's you know i've got some sites if you're in new york cité things you can see he lived at

00:23:32.320 three broadway um several efforts were made to kidnap him because he was the most hated person

00:23:38.280 in america he had been a member of the connecticut freemasons because i think he's from

00:23:43.400 Connecticut. They blotted his name from the list of members. Even the Freemasons were just like,

00:23:47.600 fuck this guy. So his hometown, residents of his hometown went to the graveyard or the cemetery, 1.00

00:23:52.800 and they like smashed up the grave markers of his father and his like infant brother who had

00:23:57.640 been buried there. And in various cities, other people did their own version of like Benedict

00:24:02.240 Arnold, Satan effigies to like parade through the streets and burn. Like, you know, he had been

00:24:07.740 brought to Philadelphia to sort of like bring everyone together to try and make the two sides

00:24:11.700 to exist but i think where he did make more like he had been brought to philadelphia to try and

00:24:17.040 make everyone be sort of on team george w and in fact i think he did bring everyone together in

00:24:22.940 america in hatred of him um i think both sides hated him basically peggy shippen don't forget

00:24:31.920 about her she's by now 20 years old she's had quite an action-packed like year and a half of

00:24:36.540 married life. But she's in New York City and she's like, okay, who are the hot girls? Where 0.98

00:24:41.480 are the hot nightclubs? Let me get my tits out and try and improve my husband's reputation by 1.00

00:24:48.300 being hot. So she was trying to be a goodwill ambassador for her husband's reputation, which 1.00

00:24:52.820 was toxic. She also became pregnant again. So Benedict Arnold, he has this army job for the 0.88

00:24:58.920 Brits. And so he's, because he's experienced being military guys, so he was given a job to

00:25:02.800 lead some British soldiers in Virginia, which led to a situation that maybe people in Virginia

00:25:07.940 are familiar with. So at this time, Thomas Jefferson, who I want to say of everybody on

00:25:13.620 my list of people, Thomas Jefferson, 99.7% of Americans surveyed are familiar with Thomas

00:25:19.960 Jefferson. Anyway, Thomas Jefferson at this point is the governor. And so Benedict Arnold

00:25:23.720 led some troops in Virginia. He had an argument with Thomas Jefferson about tobacco crops. And

00:25:30.500 this whole thing wrapped up with Benedict Arnold vengefully ordering the burning of the city of

00:25:36.020 Richmond in which lots of people died. So yeah, so again, it's just like the American Revolution

00:25:42.240 not settled. Like it still seems like the British could win it, but Benedict Arnold started being

00:25:46.600 like bored. He's like, I want a better job. I want more money. And so he went back to New York City

00:25:51.940 and stopped leading troops. So he had been away for six months doing all this stuff,

00:25:57.280 burning richmond etc and during which time peggy away from him like now entering her like

00:26:03.080 adulthood era she thrived like she was very pregnant and which i just mentioned because 1.00

00:26:09.900 she didn't like hide she wasn't um having serious issues where she had like hide away in the house 1.00

00:26:15.340 or whatever she was just like i'm pregnant i got my tits out and let's just like meet the other hot 1.00

00:26:20.880 young socialites so she became the it girl bell of society now in new york city as well she had a 0.96

00:26:26.720 second baby, a son named James Robertson. Benedict Arnold took another job where he was like leading

00:26:33.480 another battle scenario. One thing led to another. And in this one, a ship filled with gunpowder

00:26:38.700 exploded due to his negligence, which made everybody on every side of this war mad at him.

00:26:44.480 So kind of, yeah, Hepburn is here. Like, do you, what are your thoughts on Benedict Arnold?

00:26:51.480 Arnold no one liked him I don't I appreciate that at the time people hated him because sometimes

00:26:57.100 there's like a thing after the fact but I just like someone who like him is shitty in his lifetime

00:27:01.840 he knew he was hated and do you remember so much of this started where he was like concerned about

00:27:05.860 his reputation and that's why he's like I want a court-martial and stuff or it's just like his

00:27:10.600 reputation like could not be worse um hashtag quoting from Taylor Swift so he's his whole life

00:27:18.260 is a reputation era benedict arnold anyway so eventually the british surrendered in 1781

00:27:24.920 and um that was the end of the american revolution more or less so team george w had won and benedict

00:27:34.840 arnold and peggy were like let's leave the country everyone on this continent hates us

00:27:41.400 or benedict everyone loved peggy and so they decided to go to london england so they sailed

00:27:49.640 over on separate ships um peggy was on a more luxurious comfortable ship with their like

00:27:54.560 young children benedict arnold was on a more military ship and this was good so they were

00:27:58.900 separate benedict arnold's um ship was chased by privateers trying to kidnap him he had to like do

00:28:04.760 a switcheroo like change ships and anyway eventually he got away so they came over to

00:28:09.720 london england and they went to live here's people in london some sites you can see they lived in a

00:28:14.980 handsome five-story townhouse in portman square which is sort of an area where other american

00:28:20.680 loyalists had moved like people who were had lived in america for a while sided with the british and

00:28:26.640 then fled um the rich ones went to london to live in portman square so he was introduced to uh king

00:28:35.240 george the third aka firmer george from queen charlotte a bridgerton story and he actually

00:28:40.940 got a private meeting with him followed by a stroll through saint james park with the king

00:28:45.440 and his son the prince of wales aka prinny aka the future husband of carolina brunswick

00:28:50.840 so um who was like 18 or 19 years old at this point pretty so peggy arrived and right away

00:28:58.520 everyone's just like she's great we like her she was feted as the most beautiful woman in england 0.96

00:29:05.080 And she was introduced at court. 0.52

00:29:06.900 She met Queen Charlotte from Queen Charlotte Bridgerton's story, except not her, the actual

00:29:11.620 boring one. 0.99

00:29:13.040 And Queen Charlotte, who was sort of dressed out of fashion and was boring, you'd think 1.00

00:29:19.220 she'd be like, oh, I don't know about this tits out lady. 1.00

00:29:20.920 But even she loved Peggy. 1.00

00:29:22.460 Peggy was great.

00:29:24.220 She took a liking to her.

00:29:25.820 She gave an annuity, which is sort of like a salary of 100 pounds a year to Peggy for

00:29:30.740 the maintenance of her children, those she had and those which were yet to be born.

00:29:34.760 George III also issued a pension on Peggy's behalf, which may be proof that she had done

00:29:40.480 spy work because there's a whole thing about like, was she a spy or was she just married to a spy?

00:29:44.560 But the fact that she got a pension from the government means like she probably did something

00:29:48.360 he was grateful for. Anyway, so Peggy's great. Everyone loves Peggy, but as per usual, nobody

00:29:53.880 likes Benedict Arnold. One guy said, quote, Peggy was an admirable woman and was her husband dead,

00:30:00.740 she would be much noticed. So tragically, if you want to hang out with Peggy, Benedict comes along

00:30:06.360 too. Unfortunate. So Benedict Arnold, he's just like, I need some jobs and money. So he applied

00:30:11.940 for a position with the East India Company, but he was rejected for that job because the person

00:30:18.620 who was doing the hiring was an American loyalist. Or no, so that's on the same team, but they're

00:30:24.620 just like, we don't like you, Benedict Arnold. Even in England, people hated him for his disloyalty.

00:30:30.740 So even though he was on, he'd switched to their side.

00:30:33.240 They didn't like that he had switched sides.

00:30:34.660 But also on top of that, he just had an unpleasant personality.

00:30:38.820 And now for a quick advertising break.

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00:30:52.980 The war is over and both sides lost.

00:31:01.640 Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust.

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00:33:04.640 And we're back. Peggy's, she gave birth a daughter named Margaret who died after seven months.

00:33:11.660 At the time the baby Margaret died, she was already pregnant again.

00:33:15.580 She's 22 by this point, going on her fourth pregnancy.

00:33:19.200 and everyone still loves her. One person said she was more noticed and more liked than any

00:33:24.000 American that ever came over. She's visited by people of the first rank and invited to all their

00:33:28.880 houses. So this next child was named George. He died shortly after birth. Benedict Arnold kept

00:33:35.720 petitioning for more money from the government. And finally, he's like, I'm not going to get

00:33:39.980 a government job or money, so I'm just going to establish my own business, which is going to be

00:33:44.440 international trade, which for him was, so after the American revolution, people who had been

00:33:53.060 loyal to Britain left America. So some of them went to London, like the Benedict or like the

00:33:59.080 Arnolds did. And a lot of them went North to Canada, specifically to what is now the province

00:34:04.160 of New Brunswick. So he was like, I'm going to go and sell imported goods to the loyalists in

00:34:10.620 New Brunswick. What's his plan? Peggy, again, she's pregnant, but when is she not? She's just

00:34:16.700 getting tired of his get-rich-quick schemes. Her brother-in-law came to visit at one point

00:34:24.120 because we know what she was thinking because a lot of her letters exist back to her family.

00:34:28.260 And I think she was so upset that they were like, let's send somebody. By the way,

00:34:31.480 her family referred to Benedict Arnold as that infernal villain. They hated him and they were

00:34:36.800 mystified that she was standing by her man. Anyway, her brother-in-law came to visit and

00:34:40.980 found she seemed relatively content. She gave birth to a daughter named Sophia and the brother

00:34:46.220 stuck around just to make sure Sophia was okay before leaving. And Benedict Arnold went to New

00:34:51.420 Brunswick to start his new business. And I'm just, when I got to this part of the story, I was just

00:34:55.480 like, wow, New Brunswick. New Brunswick is one of the Canadian provinces. And it's the setting of,

00:35:02.040 if you watch the show on the Hallmark Channel, The Way Home, the time travel show with the pawn.

00:35:05.820 but New Brunswick doesn't get a lot of attention or love. There's a show that they film there

00:35:10.040 where people competitively make sandcastles. Lots of stuff happens there. There's a really

00:35:15.180 high tide and really low tide or something. Anyway, I'm just happy for New Brunswick

00:35:18.740 to be involved in a story because it's not often mentioned in things. The other Canadian provinces

00:35:25.080 get a lot more attention. Anyway, so she didn't hear from him for months. So she's just like,

00:35:29.760 is he alive? Is he dead? What has happened to my horrible husband? And the reason she hadn't

00:35:34.080 heard from him was because towards the end of the Atlantic crossing, he suffered another attack of

00:35:38.300 gout and he fell ill. And so he had to stick around in Halifax, Nova Scotia. When I came to

00:35:45.100 that, I was just like, what? Because I am sure I've said this on the podcast before, but just

00:35:50.160 so listeners know, that's where I'm from. I grew up in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I'm like, Benedict

00:35:54.800 Arnold was in Halifax, Nova Scotia. So Halifax, Nova Scotia at this point was really a British 0.89

00:35:59.320 garrison satay so i guess it makes sense he was there but like wow halifax nova scotia shout out

00:36:05.660 so he couldn't make the rest of the trip himself he had to hire a pilot and a captain to go the

00:36:10.280 rest of the way on his behalf and then the ship that those guys were in got stuck i guess in like

00:36:15.960 famous new brunswick title changes and then scavengers stole a bunch of the goods they're

00:36:20.820 going to sell so just like this whole thing not going well eventually benedict arnold um got like

00:36:27.280 felt better after his attack of gout and he went headed to New Brunswick because that one ship,

00:36:32.700 they lost most of those goods, but he had other goods to like sell. Basically, he's just like a

00:36:36.500 scammer. He's like, he's just like, okay, like here's my latest gift. Like let's just sell stuff

00:36:40.840 to, he bought land in New Brunswick to sell to the loyalists. He was selling them like imported

00:36:45.360 British goods. Like, I don't know if you have a store like this where you live. If you're not in

00:36:48.860 England, English people might find this interesting. Sometimes there's stores that are like British 0.72

00:36:52.900 stuff, like a store that sells imported candy and tea and stuff for like British people who

00:36:58.640 moved to other countries. Actually, where I live in Saskatoon, Canada, there's a new store that

00:37:03.180 sells American stuff. So for people who want to get imported American things, like for instance,

00:37:08.120 from that American store, you can buy Dolly Parton cake mix. Anyway, so he was just starting

00:37:13.300 like British goods for loyalist people in New Brunswick business. So 1 million hours ago,

00:37:19.760 I mentioned he had three sons before he married Peggy and so those three sons now adults and he

00:37:24.160 invited them to come up from Connecticut to help him out with this New Brunswick business he finally

00:37:29.200 wrote back to Peggy being like hey guess what I'm alive and you and our children should come here to

00:37:34.000 New Brunswick as well Peggy's shipping somehow pregnant again they must have visited at some

00:37:39.480 point I guess he left her pregnant anyway so there's no doubt about who is the father of these

00:37:46.600 children. So I guess he didn't write to her for a while. And then he came back to visit her,

00:37:50.500 knocked her up, left again is what happened. Anyway. So she's like, I don't want to go there.

00:37:57.420 But Benedict Earl was like, well, if you come to New Brunswick, that's practically Philadelphia.

00:38:00.980 So you can go and visit your family. So she's like, okay. So in the last weeks of her pregnancy,

00:38:05.560 she got on an Atlantic ship. She arrived in New Brunswick. She gave birth six weeks after

00:38:11.440 arriving in St. John and they named the son George after the King of England. So in St. John,

00:38:18.260 and these are some like, if you know, listeners in New Brunswick, here's some sites you can visit.

00:38:23.980 They lived in the corner of King and Cross Street, which is now Canterbury Street.

00:38:29.020 Things were not great for them there because like all other North American British colonies at this

00:38:38.160 time there was a recession due to the ongoing revolutions and things. Peggy was on her own a

00:38:43.720 lot with her like increasing amount of very young children. Although she did have help from Ben

00:38:48.200 and Arnold's sister, the plain dressed Hannah, who was on the scene to help out. I guess she 0.99

00:38:52.260 came up with the adult sons as well. Peggy Shippen, if we're keeping track is now 29 years old. Um,

00:38:58.400 and she's still gorgeous, popular. She rallies, like she has this real resiliency and ability 0.97

00:39:04.940 to be like, this sucks, but you know what? I'm going to see it through. She hosted dinners,

00:39:12.020 attended galas. She found some gal pals to hang out with. And then July 11th of whatever year 0.67

00:39:18.820 this is, Benedict Arnold's warehouse went up in flames. His youngest two sons had been sleeping

00:39:26.200 in the warehouse because they slept in the office as guards. They were both badly burned

00:39:30.260 and barely escaped with their lives.

00:39:33.460 And Benedict Arnold was like,

00:39:34.740 okay, so I want to get money back

00:39:36.460 from the insurance company.

00:39:37.560 And the insurance company was like,

00:39:38.720 this is obviously arson fraud

00:39:41.220 and you just burn down your own business

00:39:42.720 with your son's inside of it to get money.

00:39:44.820 One of the people saying that was his business partner.

00:39:46.680 So then Benedict Arnold accused

00:39:48.640 his business partner of slander.

00:39:50.440 The insurance company was like,

00:39:52.060 we're just going to see how this goes.

00:39:54.080 So he's in the midst of like another self-made drama.

00:39:58.560 like i don't know if he burned down the warehouse himself or if just like someone who hated him did

00:40:03.940 that but either way i blame him and peggy was like i'm just gonna go visit my family in philadelphia

00:40:08.540 now goodbye so her mother had recently had a stroke which was another reason why this was

00:40:12.960 really important to her and why she decided to do this even though she was like very pregnant

00:40:16.400 like the atlantic crossing so she took her youngest baby um little george as well as an 1.00

00:40:22.460 enslaved black woman. So note to listeners, um, there have been enslaved black people throughout

00:40:29.760 this whole saga because these are wealthy white people in America at that time. And they all had 0.73

00:40:36.340 enslaved black people with them. So, uh, Peggy went to hang out with her family, but the people 0.99

00:40:43.520 in Philadelphia, if you will recall the people of Philadelphia had done things like dedicate the

00:40:50.360 time to make a life-size paper mache dummy of benedict arnold and the devil like a day after

00:40:56.220 he was caught for being a traitor they're not happy she's back because they really hate benedict like

00:41:03.660 the whole country of america seemed to be founded on the principle of we all hate benedict arnold

00:41:08.640 and she's his wife but she loves seeing her family she hadn't seen them for what like even

00:41:12.220 i don't even know 10 years and like seeing them made her even more sad to leave which you know

00:41:17.260 relatable content. And so she went back to New Brunswick and she's like, can we go back to maybe

00:41:22.380 England where people hate us less? And I have friends there. And Benedict Arnold was like,

00:41:26.920 well, we can't because I'm in the middle of this like insurance scam trial. 18 months later,

00:41:32.600 Supreme Court in Fredericton, New Brunswick decided that his partner was guilty of slander.

00:41:38.400 I don't know about the insurance fraud though. Anyway, so Benedict Arnold has sued his business

00:41:42.780 partner for slander and he had said i want 5 000 pounds but the court was like 20 shillings so he

00:41:48.400 was mad about this and newspapers on both sides of the atlantic because now all of england also 0.58

00:41:53.180 hated him just wrote scathing newspaper articles about how ben ed arnold sucked which were accurate

00:41:59.740 newspaper articles one night soon after the trial a mob appeared before his home smashing windows

00:42:05.220 and doors and then somehow they had an effigy um people in this era were just real effigy makers

00:42:14.160 so they smashed his windows the doors then they came into the house and they paraded through the

00:42:18.040 house with an effigy of him um that said traitor on it like peggy and the children are home watching

00:42:25.040 this all happen and then there was a street riot that became so violent that soldiers had to

00:42:29.820 intervene to calm things down. And they went back to England. After that, leaving his sister

00:42:36.840 and his burnt adult sons to manage his scam of a business. So back in London, so a duel happened.

00:42:47.340 Rumors came out in the newspapers that Benedict Arnold had died in a duel. Peggy was like,

00:42:52.040 okay, no, he didn't die in a duel. Like she wrote a letter to her because her father wrote a letter,

00:42:56.220 I guess, being like, hey, newspaper said your husband died in a duel. I hope that's true. Is 0.97

00:43:00.360 he dead? And Peggy's like, no, no, there was a duel. He didn't die. What had happened was some

00:43:05.480 guy insulted Benedict Arnold, like everyone did every day. Benedict Arnold demanded an apology.

00:43:11.200 And in fact, he wrote a template for the guy to sign being like, I, fill in your name here,

00:43:15.680 apologize to Benedict Arnold, signed name. The guy wouldn't sign the letter. And so then Benedict

00:43:21.020 Arnold challenged him to a duel. And this is, you know, the era of Hamilton, the musical,

00:43:25.120 which also famously has duels in it. So they did a duel. They both had their like, they went to a

00:43:30.140 park, like you stand back to back. They both had their seconds. Peggy stayed home just being like,

00:43:35.240 my husband is a nightmare in increasingly unhinged ways. What happened was Benedict Arnold fired

00:43:41.260 first, but he missed. And the other guy was like, I dare you to shoot again. Benedict Arnold was

00:43:46.700 like, no, that's against the rules of duels. So neither of them died. And somehow this situation

00:43:53.300 made people appreciate ben arnold for courage and dueling like the fact that he didn't shoot

00:43:59.160 again when he could have made people be like that was cool of him so he was like this is great

00:44:04.660 king george can you pay me more money now that i'm popular he also applied for military posts

00:44:10.060 but he didn't get more money he didn't get the military posts but just his reputation got like

00:44:14.000 one point better so he's like you know what i'm gonna do like again i'm not getting money from

00:44:18.620 the government. I'm going to go back to my roots of being a self-owned business grifter. And I'm

00:44:24.160 going to sell two of my New Brunswick ships to fund a privateer, which is like a pirate, but

00:44:33.000 legal. So he was going to fund a privateer vessel, which would attack the French. And he wanted to

00:44:40.600 get into like trade in the West Indies slash the Caribbean region. Again, Peggy, who is pregnant, 0.87

00:44:46.600 like, again, just if I don't say, just assume she always is, I was just like, are you fucking 0.99

00:44:51.600 kidding me? Like, oh my God, like, can you please grow up? Like, yes, she was a child when they 0.99

00:44:56.060 married, but now she is like in her thirties and she's just like fully aware of what a disaster

00:45:01.460 this man is with this constant get rich quick schemes. So he was going to go, um, to the Caribbean,

00:45:08.880 um, in March, 1794, but then his departure was delayed, um, because of the weather. And you know,

00:45:15.400 who arrived at around the same time due to the weather is the arrival of a ship of exiles.

00:45:20.740 Rich people fleeing France from the reign of terror. So that is a connection to the overall

00:45:28.520 season theme, Marie Antoinette, the French Revolution. Like this is all happening at

00:45:33.200 the same time. I included that detail just to remind you, like this is all happening at the

00:45:37.460 same time. He did eventually, like his ship was able to leave, the weather cleared. And so he

00:45:41.760 went to trade English goods. So again, he's just opening up like an English goods store in places

00:45:46.180 where like, you know, immigrant English people were living. So he's selling these in St. Kitts.

00:45:50.340 And then he went onto the Guadeloupe Island of Grand Terre, which the day he arrived was like,

00:45:58.360 the French arrived and took it over and he was captured and put on a prison ship. Like if he'd

00:46:02.900 arrived one day earlier, that wouldn't have happened to him. So like he is a shitty person 1.00

00:46:08.540 who also has just very bad timing and luck. So he's in prison. Peggy doesn't know what's going 0.99

00:46:15.680 on. Three weeks later from his being like put on a prison ship, John Knox vibes, Peggy gave birth

00:46:21.220 again to his son that she named William Fitch, named after one of their neighbors in London.

00:46:27.660 And then Benedict Arnold, one of the, I'll give him credit for this because this is pretty cool.

00:46:32.300 So he bribed his guards on the prison ship and made a daring escape, which comprised of he

00:46:36.520 squeezed through the cabin window of the prison ship, shimmied down a rope onto a raft, Mary Queen

00:46:41.480 of Scots vibes, paddled through shark infested waters to a small boat, which he rode to a British

00:46:46.620 ship. The captain of that ship was impressed by his moxie, I guess, and rewarded him with some 0.99

00:46:52.720 new jobs, like I think an army job and also being like in charge of something in Guadeloupe for the 0.99

00:46:58.040 British army. So he stayed in Guadeloupe for a year, then returned to London, where Peggy,

00:47:03.980 by now 35 years old had become an invalid because of like, she's always been, I would say an anxious

00:47:12.760 person. She's a person who feels emotions deeply. Like again, just trying to parse out when you

00:47:18.400 read about her, there's a lot of stuff where it's like, Oh, she would pitch a fit to get her way 0.96

00:47:21.640 where it's like, well, maybe she was actually that upset. Like anyway, so all this stuff,

00:47:27.200 like her husband went missing. She's having children all the time. He came back and found

00:47:31.760 that she was basically bedridden because of her nerves because of financial worries her mother had

00:47:37.780 died in philadelphia like she was just she's 35 and having i don't know that's not quite quarter

00:47:43.480 life crisis but it's like midlife crisis she's just like i peace out like my brain like let's 0.98

00:47:49.960 just fuck everything so benedict arnold too his credit was like oh i've ruined this woman's life 0.96

00:47:56.200 I'm gonna try and help so he took her to the baths in Cheltenham to the ocean near Surrey 0.99

00:48:02.560 but one thing that did I don't know if that helped to fresh air whatever but one event that did cheer

00:48:08.420 her up was that her father sent a portrait of himself and she loves her father so much like

00:48:12.780 she'd always been his favorite and actually at around that same time for the first time in one

00:48:17.800 of her letters she admitted for the first time that marrying Benedict Arnold had bankrupted her

00:48:23.520 vitality and spirit. So she, this is part of where she's just having this real aha moment of just

00:48:30.120 like, cause you know, she was with him for so long and from a really young age and everything

00:48:35.520 was kind of like, well, who's going to win the war? Like maybe what we're doing is good. But now

00:48:38.580 she's just like, Oh no, this guy sucks. Fuck. Okay. So the years following this Guadeloupe 1.00

00:48:44.060 adventure had been economically disastrous for Peggy and their five children, but Benedict

00:48:49.200 arnold continued to live like a wealthy man because that was what he did he was like so

00:48:54.840 many people in this podcast um greatly in debt and terrible with money so he moved the family

00:49:01.160 into a new townhouse in gloucester place um peggy was having migraines at this point as well

00:49:08.120 and he just kept proposing new get rich quick schemes often involving privateers he had a real

00:49:13.800 thing for just like pirate life. And, um, at one point, so their young, youngest daughter,

00:49:19.380 Sophia at one point had, she'd always been sort of like her health was not great. And for a while

00:49:24.920 she, her legs became temporarily paralyzed, Sophia. And Peggy is just like, I like as a woman,

00:49:31.960 she couldn't get a job. Like she couldn't do like, all she could do is like marry well, 1.00

00:49:37.080 but it's like, she's already married to him. So she can't change what she's doing. She's just

00:49:40.260 like, how are we going to provide for our five children? Our one daughter is really sick.

00:49:44.860 She knew that she would be responsible for the children's future because her husband was useless. 0.98

00:49:52.120 One of the issues she was worried about was paying for their education. So the oldest sons

00:49:56.000 were 17 and 18. They'd nearly completed their education, planned to join the British army.

00:50:00.580 The other three still had years of schooling ahead. And she's just like, we have no money. 0.52

00:50:04.200 my husband is terrible. And then, um, his health, Benedict Arnold's health suddenly got worse or

00:50:11.080 just, I guess you could, I don't know. I'm sure he had, he had the leg thing and gout and stuff,

00:50:15.740 but just everything kind of got worse in late 1800, early 1801, which was reported in this

00:50:21.860 thing I read as the effects of repeated gout, general dropsy and disease in the lungs. He

00:50:27.140 slipped into a coma. Peggy stayed by his side. When he woke up briefly from the coma, he apologized

00:50:32.920 for his failures. Like, you know what? Credit for that, for not waking up and being like,

00:50:38.620 everything I did was great. He's just like, oh, I really fucked up, didn't I? And then he died 0.94

00:50:42.720 on June 14th, 1801. He was buried. His grave site was in St. Mary's Battersea in a crypt that was

00:50:53.360 often used for American loyalists. And Peggy vowed to redeem his reputation. I mean, good luck,

00:50:59.620 peggy but like yikes at least when he's dead he can't make things worse and this is where like

00:51:05.520 there's a first pivot in her life where or as i see it like for she they fled to new york and

00:51:13.240 then london and then like no when they were at west point that's why i first was just like oh

00:51:18.180 she's like stepping up like in terms of just being a person who is strong and can um resiliency like

00:51:28.320 she sort of surprised many people when she was able to stick with benedict through all that stuff

00:51:33.140 like the time on the run and everything she was always sort of like i don't know energetically

00:51:38.720 is that the word i don't but she's just always like passionately trying to like improve their

00:51:43.320 law and to do things and she like pivoted resiliency i guess is the word i just keep 0.96

00:51:47.580 coming back to like unexpected and this is where again um problematic heroine scarlett o'hara comes 0.94

00:51:54.380 to mind where it's just like both of them were sort of just like teenage bells who were just

00:51:58.420 kind of like not really thinking about what was happening politically around them until suddenly

00:52:02.780 they were forced to reckon with that and then both of them drew upon resources and a strength

00:52:07.960 of character maybe they didn't know they had um and did what they could to support their family

00:52:12.720 so that's the vibe here so this is another pivot so she becomes a widow her husband is finally dead 0.52

00:52:19.220 and she is free of him but she's like okay like when he was alive he was shitty and

00:52:25.900 bankrupting them but like at least she had a husband like being a single widow is a challenging

00:52:31.480 time and she's like i will rise up to this challenge and so she did so a few weeks after

00:52:36.200 his death one of her friends wrote how impressed she was with peggy's courage and fortitude like

00:52:40.880 for a person who um would often she cried easily you know she had these sort of like

00:52:47.720 fits or whatever, but she's pulling herself through this. And after his death, Peggy learned

00:52:54.580 the truth of their finances, which was that they were in incredible debt. So she immediately stopped

00:53:00.560 spending as much. She started changing the lifestyle completely to just be like, I'm going

00:53:04.800 to balance out these books, but also from his will. So there's this thing, one of the beneficiaries

00:53:10.000 of his will is a person, a young man in New Brunswick named John Sage. And so no one really

00:53:16.680 knows who this guy was. Was this, did Benedict Arnold father an illegitimate child during his

00:53:23.160 time in New Brunswick? Like, did he have a mistress? Was the mother like maybe an indigenous

00:53:27.960 woman from there? Or maybe did one of his adult sons have an illegitimate child? And Peggy didn't

00:53:34.340 know. She's just like, who the fuck is John Sage? And why is he getting an inheritance? Like, who 0.99

00:53:38.260 is this? So she's just like, who did I even marry? So he died in 1801. By autumn, 1802, she had

00:53:45.220 reduced expenses drastically by auctioning off her furniture, silver and other valuable

00:53:49.920 possessions. She rented out their townhouse. She lived in a much smaller place. And her two older

00:53:55.440 sons who had finished their education and were in the military now donated their pensions to help

00:54:01.280 finance the education of their younger siblings. So she was like, should I just go live a quiet

00:54:06.000 life in the countryside? But she's like, no, I'm a city girl. Like I need to be around people like

00:54:11.300 museums, art galleries, parties, like that's who I am. That's what I want. Her father was like,

00:54:15.680 you could return to Philadelphia, but she's like, I'd rather not see like effigy parades of my

00:54:20.180 husband and Satan. So I'll stay here in London. And much to her credit through all of her actions,

00:54:26.560 she managed to pay off her husband's debts. She believed that that would help restore his honor,

00:54:32.260 which I mean, honestly, Peggy, I love you, but like nothing ever could, but I'm just impressed

00:54:37.260 with the paying off of the debts. Good for her. Like being a woman who couldn't work,

00:54:40.680 she just found a way to make it happen um she also intended to use now that she had not debts

00:54:46.540 but like money she wanted to help support his sister hannah she wrote a letter to hannah plain

00:54:52.360 dressed hannah to be like you know women supporting women like i want to help you out and she did

00:54:56.620 but um she was now very ill peggy with an abdominal tumor she became um bedridden um

00:55:06.260 She was relying on opium as a painkiller.

00:55:09.140 She wrote to her sister at this time, quote,

00:55:12.140 I do not suffer my spirits to overcome me.

00:55:14.340 I have much to be thankful for,

00:55:15.880 most particularly for the very uncommon attention and kindness

00:55:18.820 that I hourly experience from my numerous friends.

00:55:21.600 I have the best advice that London can afford,

00:55:23.480 and I'm constantly attended by two of the most eminent physicians.

00:55:27.220 And then she died August 24th, 1804, aged 44.

00:55:31.840 She was buried with her husband,

00:55:34.060 and actually their daughter, Sophia, died as a young person as well. And she's also buried there

00:55:38.140 at the same church, St. Mary's Church in Battersea on August 25th, 1804. And at that church,

00:55:46.000 so much, much, much later, so like 200 years later, an admirer of Benedict Arnold for these

00:55:51.560 people are out there. And I presume they have not made it this long on this podcast if they

00:55:56.660 wanted to listen to it. A Benedict Arnold admirer donated new stained glass windows to that church

00:56:01.480 in honor of Benedict Arnold Peggy and their daughter Sophia. So there's, it's like seeing

00:56:06.460 glass windows showing like images of them as people. In 2004, another Benedict admirer donated

00:56:12.660 a new memorial plaque to replace an earlier one. And this is in the basement of the church. The

00:56:17.720 book I read said like, so if you go there in the basement near the daycare center, there is a plaque

00:56:22.480 to Benedict Arnold and Peggy Shippen and their daughter Sophia. And I forgot to say earlier,

00:56:26.820 but when they were in london they were seen to be visiting john andre's tomb in westminster abbey

00:56:34.480 as well so they they paid their respects to to their cool friend as well so peggy ship in time

00:56:42.260 to get into some scoring stuff and we're going to score her on the fredigan memorial scandalous

00:56:48.680 scale as well as we're going to connect her to marie antoinette in ways you might be able to 0.83

00:56:54.760 predict for this one. I don't know. So, um, and I do think that this story has a bit Marie Antoinette

00:57:01.840 vibes as well. I'm just sort of like a young person who's just sort of like partying and

00:57:08.500 likes her female friends. And then just kind of gets caught up in this, like has a horrible

00:57:12.300 husband and is caught up in some wild international world events. So the first category on our scale

00:57:18.420 is skin deliciousness and i was thinking about this because she was she was a spy in the american

00:57:26.180 revolution like her husband like we're not scoring ben and arnold thank god but um so the people

00:57:32.900 philadelphia found her pretty scandalous well actually at the beginning the quakers found her 0.97

00:57:37.180 scandalous for her tits out dresses and for attending the marchina stuff and stuff but 0.59

00:57:42.720 But ultimately she was, for most of her life, she was just like a standby her man, like having children, like living as best she could, just sort of like a respectable life. But the scandal of her like being a spy, the reaction of people in Philadelphia, it's, I'm going to say for scandaliciousness, I'm going to give her a six because she was a spy who was run out of town for being a spy. 0.89

00:58:11.600 and i mean spy shit invisible ink ciphered letters like that's cool um for scheminess

00:58:17.600 i think she gets a high score for scheminess both for her era of the various people in this 0.97

00:58:23.880 you know none of them were good spies but i think she was at least better spy than benedict arnold

00:58:30.520 um but i'm gonna say the scheminess of like how she reconciled the finances like as a woman in

00:58:38.200 1801 like the way that she was really hands-on with all of that scheminess we also often look

00:58:43.620 at like the resiliency like how people are able to pivot given life circumstances and god knows

00:58:48.260 she did that as well like she whenever she um like she's so loyal to her man and she kept trying to

00:58:56.440 fix his reputation and like she had strategies for that and she was so a lot of those strategies 0.86

00:59:03.540 were just kind of like using her emotional and social skills and things i think she gets a pretty 0.96

00:59:07.540 highest score for scheminess. I'm going to say like an eight for scheminess. Significance. 1.00

00:59:13.720 I mean, I'm just going to check my score again, but she's, um, at this point, if you're like,

00:59:20.820 why do the numbers keep changing? It's because the survey is still live as I'm recording this,

00:59:24.040 but yeah, 22% of Americans, only 22% of the 300 people who answered the survey,

00:59:30.560 um, have heard of her. Like, I don't think she's super famous. Benedict Arnold, her husband,

00:59:36.400 um 87.8 percent of people have heard of him of him like her significance I think to me partially

00:59:44.320 is sort of like emblematic of sort of like a wife who and we haven't had a lot of stories like this

00:59:49.260 on the podcast who she kind of like lived up to the standard of what society expected of a woman

00:59:54.620 to be it's just she was in these various extreme situations because of what her husband was doing

00:59:59.420 but like she did so many women in history were married to men and kind of had to put up with 0.91

01:00:06.680 stuff or just sort of like within those constraints had to find ways to make themselves happy and she 0.72

01:00:12.120 did you know like she had her friends she liked going to parties like she had a nice time but

01:00:15.520 significance I think it's pretty low for her frankly and that that's the whole thing like 0.83

01:00:21.640 well-behaved women don't make history or whatever not that she was especially I guess she was well

01:00:26.040 behaved for most of her post-marriage life. But it's just like she kind of did what was expected 0.93

01:00:30.700 of her. And that's not, that's not necessarily significant, which doesn't mean the things that

01:00:35.240 she did weren't worthwhile or weren't important. It's just in the grand scheme of things, her

01:00:39.440 significance, I'm going to say like two, because at least, you know what, there's other people in

01:00:43.620 this survey that less Americans have heard of. So she has been heard of by 22.4% of a survey

01:00:52.140 sample of 300 Americans and there's other people less famous. So, um, the sexism bonus,

01:01:03.000 how much did sexism get in her way? And I don't think that was really her, an issue she had to 1.00

01:01:08.900 face to very much extent. Like, I think she was, she found ways to live within the context she was

01:01:14.520 in. Like she is a young bell. She was just kind of like, okay, I'm valued for this and this and

01:01:19.480 this great like i'm going to use that as currency i'm going to become the most popular um like her

01:01:24.640 father she was well educated so you know her education didn't suffer because of her gender 1.00

01:01:28.480 she learned about politics and stuff i think if she had lived in a society where women were able 1.00

01:01:37.300 to do more stuff than just like constantly be pregnant and raise the children of dirtbag husbands 1.00

01:01:42.580 maybe she would have been able to thrive in a different way but i think she found a way for 0.97

01:01:47.440 herself to do the best she could within the society that she was in um i mean i don't know

01:01:54.880 like she was married often she was 17 but like she wanted to be because that's kind of how she

01:02:00.580 saw a way to sort of improve it's not that there's not sexism there i just don't think it affected her

01:02:05.260 very profoundly so i'm gonna give her a three for sexism this is gonna be a low score no hate but

01:02:16.360 you know we end these episodes with these scores and this is what it is her score is a 19 so which

01:02:25.000 gets her in the neighborhood of the marys like mary queen of scotts pals the four women all 0.70

01:02:34.240 called mary um they have a collective score of 18 and i think having peggy ship in in that area 0.96

01:02:40.920 within 19 makes sense because these are kind of like women who were they did what was expected

01:02:50.360 and wanted of women at this time and we know their names um but not a lot more about them and so like

01:02:57.580 they're on the scale they're on the scale it's just you know not any higher up than that i think 0.92

01:03:01.940 this is suitable for her and the other thing we're doing this season is nothing but net

01:03:06.200 a special new segment to see how, how do we connect the story to this series, this, this

01:03:13.640 season's ultimate heroine, Marie Antoinette and the French revolution. So I did mention that they

01:03:19.400 did, or Ben and Arnold did run into some people leaving the French revolution and they also hung

01:03:23.840 out with Marquis de Lafayette. So I was like, is that going to be her connection? No, her connection

01:03:27.780 was actually quite direct because she met Queen Charlotte from Queen Charlotte, Bridgerton story,

01:03:32.380 who um like they directly knew each other queen charlotte liked her queen charlotte gave her

01:03:37.580 pension like these two had dealings with each other and knew each other and queen charlotte

01:03:41.960 was pen pals with marie antoinette so that's a pretty direct connection actually so peggy to

01:03:48.480 queen charlotte queen charlotte to marie antoinette is two degrees of separation

01:03:51.880 is how close peggy shipping was from marie antoinette

01:03:56.160 so that is the end of the saga of Peggy Shippen and that makes if you count Peggy which is short

01:04:08.800 for Margaret and if you count her along with Peg Plunkett the various Marguerites and Margates

01:04:16.020 that makes nine over the course of this podcast that has been around since 2019

01:04:21.660 um and we've done i don't even know how many people 100 something nine margaret's that's the

01:04:28.840 you might think is that the most i was thinking is that the most of any name we've had i feel like it

01:04:33.140 was in the women trapped in towers season just it seemingly person of a person just happened to be

01:04:38.100 named margaret but in fact mary or marie is the most populous name with 10 margaret is creeping

01:04:46.660 up there but i will say i counted the four marys mary queen of scotts ladies-in-waiting i just

01:04:51.520 count of that as one Mary. So technically it's like, what, 13 Marys. Anyway, this is Vulgar

01:04:57.880 History. As I mentioned at the top of the show, big exciting news. I'm going on an international

01:05:04.820 research trip, but there will be time during that trip to do the first ever Vulgar History

01:05:11.120 meetups. So I'm going to be in Edinburgh, Scotland, and I'll be available for meetup

01:05:18.860 on Wednesday, August 21st. And I'm going to be in London, England, Wednesday, August 28th.

01:05:25.100 And so the details are TBD, but if you want to RSVP for this and get updates about

01:05:30.600 when I figure out where we're going to meet and what we're going to do, I mean, it's probably

01:05:34.140 going to be walking around looking at some oldie timey things in some park somewhere

01:05:37.840 in both cities, but go to vulgarhistory.com slash meet up and I'll put you on the list to know

01:05:44.580 what we're doing and when and where. And also if you're not in or near those places,

01:05:50.620 but you want to know all the stuff that I'm experiencing during this research trip, which

01:05:54.320 I mean, side note, is my first time leaving Canada in 10 years. And 10 years ago, what I did

01:06:03.020 was I just went to the US for a weekend. So it's my first time leaving the continent of North

01:06:07.400 America in 15 years. It's a pretty big deal for me personally. I'm going to be seeing so many

01:06:11.500 things that I've talked about on the podcast I am quivering with excitement and I'm going to be

01:06:15.960 sharing a lot of the stuff that I see um you can follow along I'll be putting my photos videos and

01:06:21.980 more at patreon.com and foster writer where which is free like I'm gonna be putting all these things

01:06:27.700 up for free so you can follow me there it'll be sort of like a little blog that's why I'm putting

01:06:31.420 it there just so I can have sort of like long essay type things and then also be putting some

01:06:35.060 stuff in my Instagram stories, which is at vulgarhistorypod on Instagram. Yeah. But speaking

01:06:41.740 of both, I mean, you can follow me on Instagram at vulgarhistorypod and you can also follow me

01:06:47.380 on Patreon. So patreon.com slash annfosterwriter. If you follow me just for free, like you can just

01:06:52.860 go there and just sign up and say like, I want to be a free follower, whatever. Then you sell

01:06:56.320 the stuff that I post there, like my trip pictures and videos and things. And then if you bump it up

01:07:03.480 if you pledge at least $1 or more a month. And I think that's $1 US or potentially $1 Canadian.

01:07:10.060 So I think in the EU, that might be like 50 cents. I don't know. I haven't been on my trip yet. I

01:07:15.780 don't know conversions. But for $1 a month, you can get early ad-free access to all episodes of

01:07:21.820 Vulgar History. And you can listen to those. You don't have to listen to them in Patreon. You can

01:07:25.620 just attach that to your regular where you listen to your podcast, Spotify or Apple Podcasts or

01:07:30.900 whatever. If you pledge $5 or more a month, you get access to bonus episodes of Velgar Peace

01:07:36.940 Theater, where I talk about costume dramas with Alison Epstein and Lana Wood Johnson,

01:07:40.760 as well as episodes of The After Show, where I take it out to The After Show with some of the

01:07:45.460 guests when we just have so much to talk about. And also, so this asshole about some gross men 0.99

01:07:49.700 from history. And I also want to mention the jewelry brand I will be wearing on my trip, 0.99

01:07:56.980 Common Year Jewelry, which is our brand partner. So this is a beautiful small business,

01:08:02.860 woman-owned business, and they make beautiful jewelry inspired by women from history and

01:08:09.020 slash mythology, like Roman mythology, Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, and also history.

01:08:15.940 The designs are all about women. They have a whole collection that's called the Difficult 0.99

01:08:22.460 women collection which talks about women who are historically kind of misinterpreted misunderstood

01:08:28.540 like we would call them tits out women um tori from common era calls them difficult women

01:08:33.180 we're talking about like agrippina anne boleyn is there cleopatra is there when we're talking 1.00

01:08:39.980 about mythology medusa just like hecate just like amazing women badasses to wear on your neck um

01:08:47.220 or on your finger because there's also rings anyway um vulgar history listeners always get

01:08:53.000 15 off all items from common era by going to commonera.com slash vulgar or using code vulgar

01:08:58.440 at checkout and if you want to get some vulgar history merch such like i will be wearing on my

01:09:05.080 trip i was thinking when i have the meetups how will people know who is me when we're having the

01:09:10.340 meetup and i'm like oh oh we're vulgar history t-shirt and then people know that's me so i'm

01:09:14.340 planning to wear the peg plunket t-shirt that's how you know it's me anyway you can get your own

01:09:18.960 vulgar history merch go to vulgarhistory.com store that takes you to our t public page

01:09:24.800 and you can get the beautiful designs that i have commissioned and paid artists to draw

01:09:30.340 um i just want to let you know they're not done by ai or anything they're like real human people

01:09:35.360 who i've paid who are talented artists members of the tits out brigade you can get all those

01:09:39.880 gorgeous designs. You can get on a t-shirt, on a magnet, on a sticker, on a pin, on like a phone

01:09:46.640 case, like all different things where you want to flaunt your extremely niche interest in this

01:09:52.340 podcast. And yeah, vulgarhistory.com slash store takes to the T-Palbug store, which is great if

01:09:57.860 you're in the U.S. If you're outside the U.S., I recommend the Redbubble store. All the same stuff

01:10:01.700 is there and the same deal. Just find the design you like, put it on whatever thing you want.

01:10:05.080 that's vulgarhistory.redbubble.com and you can get in touch with me using the form at on the

01:10:12.300 website which is vulgarhistory.com I think it's just like contact me or something so if you have

01:10:16.980 honestly if you're from Philadelphia like Peggy Shippen is your girl like let me know I don't

01:10:23.480 know like what do you know about Peggy Shippen when you grow up there like or if you're honestly

01:10:28.380 if you're from England like did you know about John Andre and his like tomb and if you're from

01:10:34.420 New Brunswick. Are you just excited that I talked about you for the first time ever? Anyway, you can

01:10:39.200 get in touch with me about whatever at vulgarhistory.com. Just give a little contact form

01:10:43.280 or send me a DM on Instagram where I am at vulgarhistorypod. Next week, we're continuing

01:10:49.040 our American history sojourn. We're going to have a lot more guest appearances by the main characters

01:10:56.540 of the musical Hamilton as we take a look at another person who was at one point president

01:11:08.200 of the United States and some of the women who he was terrible to. So that's what's coming up

01:11:15.100 next week. Until next time, keep your pants on and your tits out. Vulgar History is researched, 1.00

01:11:21.600 written and hosted by Anne Foster. 0.91

01:11:23.900 That's me.

01:11:24.900 The editor is Christina Lumagi.

01:11:27.180 Theme music is by The Severn Duo.

01:11:29.880 The Vulgar History Show image is by Deborah Wong.

01:11:32.840 Transcripts are written by Aveline Malek.

01:11:34.880 Find transcripts of recent episodes at vulgarhistory.com.

01:11:44.320 Legendary stories, awe-inspiring sound, and endless adventure.

01:11:50.180 Welcome to the Realms of Peril and Glory.

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01:12:42.840 Reality TV is messy.

01:12:44.860 pop culture is louder than ever and the internet completely unhinged welcome to roxanne and chantel

01:12:51.980 the podcast where cousins roxanne and chantel break down reality tv celebrity drama and the

01:12:57.180 stories everyone's texting about we recap the shows spill the headlines and sit down with the

01:13:02.980 stars themselves no filter no boring takes just the tea new episodes every week if it's trending

01:13:10.920 We're talking about it.

01:13:12.320 This is Roxanne.

01:13:13.520 And Chantal. 0.95

01:13:14.600 Let's get into it.

01:13:16.640 Oh, please.

01:13:17.700 Not that music.

01:13:18.500 That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

01:13:20.880 Could we get something a little bit lighter?

01:13:22.640 Some lighter music here?

01:13:23.900 Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

01:13:27.140 And what about Unsolved Mysteries?

01:13:28.720 The show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime.

01:13:31.900 I'm Ellen Marsh.

01:13:33.280 And I'm Joey Taranto.

01:13:34.280 And we host I Think Not, a true crime comedy podcast covering some of the wildest stories

01:13:40.040 from your favorite true crime campy TV shows

01:13:42.720 all the way to Unsolved Mysteries.

01:13:45.000 Baby, you will laugh, you will cry,

01:13:47.260 you'll think about true crime in a whole new way,

01:13:49.420 and you'll also ask yourself,

01:13:50.920 who gave these people mics?

01:13:52.260 New episodes of I Think Not are released every Wednesday

01:13:55.020 with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon.

01:13:58.640 And every Monday, you can listen to our True Crime Rundown,

01:14:02.240 where we go over the top true crime headlines of the week.

01:14:05.860 So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

01:14:10.040 Thank you.

Vulgar History - August 07, 2024

American Revolution, part 7： Benedict Arnold's Wife (pt 2⧸2)

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