Vulgar History - August 09, 2023


Author Interview: Craig Shreve (The African Samurai)

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Author Interview: Jamila Ahmed (Every Rising Sun) Author Interview: Rachel Cantor (Half-Life of a Stolen Sister)

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Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
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00:00:30.000 hello and welcome to vulgar history a feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann
00:00:47.780 foster and sometimes on the show we talk about people who are not women and this is one of those
00:00:53.120 times because when it's a story that really has to do with marginalized people in history or lesser
00:00:57.780 known stories. I'm all about it. And I was really, really, really excited when I heard first just
00:01:02.400 about this book. And then I was so excited to read this book, because it is about a figure that I
00:01:06.940 think I've mentioned a few times on this podcast, just in passing, because I've heard of him, but
00:01:11.120 I never really read up on him. And it's Yasuke, who is a man who was born in Africa, and he wound
00:01:17.480 up in Japan for reasons we'll talk about in this episode. And he became known as the African Samurai.
00:01:23.220 and that is the title of this book. So the author is Craig Shreve, who clearly it's a story that
00:01:29.740 he's so passionate about and he's so interested about. I was really excited to talk with him
00:01:33.540 about this book and about this really interesting character, Yasuke the African Samurai. So I hope
00:01:38.700 you enjoy this talk with Craig Shreve. So I'm joined today by Craig Shreve, whose new book,
00:01:46.340 The African Samurai, just came out at the time that you're listening to this interview. So
00:01:51.080 welcome, Craig. Hello, thanks for having me. I have to tell you, I was so excited when I first
00:01:56.640 saw that this book existed, because this is a figure from history, Yasuke, who I've always
00:02:01.320 been really interested in. And I thought, what a perfect subject for a novel. So my first question
00:02:06.800 for you is, where did you first hear about this person? I first heard about them from just a
00:02:12.340 short YouTube video that I saw years ago. And it really didn't have very much detail. But just
00:02:19.080 this basically just covered the story of the 16th century African man who was the world's
00:02:23.540 first foreign born samurai. And when I saw it, I initially thought, I thought it was probably false
00:02:29.940 because I couldn't believe that I, that that would be a true story and I had never heard it before.
00:02:35.260 So I started looking into it, expecting to see that, you know, it's been misrepresented or that
00:02:40.900 it's a hoax or something like that. And instead, like the more I dove into it, the more I realized
00:02:45.540 that not only is it a true story, but there's so much more to it than what this introduction I had
00:02:50.940 to it. So yeah, it definitely captured my attention immediately. Can you tell everybody
00:02:56.160 who doesn't know who this person is who Yesuke was? Sure. He was a 16th century African slave
00:03:04.120 who traveled to Japan in the company of Jesuit missionaries and was gifted to a warlord named
00:03:11.800 Oda Nobunaga, who, if you're familiar with Japanese history, he is one of the most important
00:03:16.380 figures in the nation's history. The two formed an unlikely friendship, and Yasuke was elevated
00:03:22.640 to the role of samurai. And so when Nobunaga eventually kind of met his end, betrayal at
00:03:29.140 Honaji, Yasuke was there with him at the end. So the two were seemingly very close.
00:03:36.340 When you started looking into this story more to see what was true and what was real,
00:03:39.820 what sources are there from that time explaining that this person was there and what he did?
00:03:45.480 Right. So I had to rely a lot on other people's translations because the original sources,
00:03:50.660 of course, there's some mentions of them in some Japanese documents. I think there's more
00:03:55.780 details about them come from some of the Portuguese letters from the Jesuits who were
00:04:01.040 kind of writing back to the church. So those are really kind of the primary sources. The Jesuit
00:04:06.500 letters are probably the biggest source. And then there's also some documentation from some of the
00:04:12.180 Japanese writings of the time. Yeah. Am I right? There's some drawings. I know I've seen, I think,
00:04:19.740 old drawings with him in them. There are drawings and some people will kind of dispute whether it's
00:04:25.740 him or not. So for instance, there's one, I think, of some of the Jesuits arriving on the ships and
00:04:32.740 And there is an African man there.
00:04:34.720 It's the one you've seen where he's kind of holding the umbrella.
00:04:37.460 I don't know if that's the one you saw.
00:04:38.760 But so that's one that people think is probably Yasuke.
00:04:41.480 There's also, I think it's a silkscreen from around that time of a sumo tournament
00:04:46.880 where one of the sumo wrestlers is considerably darker than the rest.
00:04:51.660 And so some people think that that was possibly Yasuke as well.
00:04:55.220 So it's for sure this person, like, I don't know.
00:04:58.560 I'm not, I completely understand that this is a real person who is there.
00:05:01.800 but the things you're saying like this is the evidence this is the proof that this isn't
00:05:05.140 this isn't a made-up story this is a real person yeah so the proof is you know from the letters
00:05:10.960 uh written by the jezeris and etc so yeah he's a real person and a lot of the like a lot of the
00:05:17.240 elements of the book you kind of have to kind of match up where he's kind of who he's with and
00:05:22.220 then study what that person was doing so it's in terms of kind of like tracking his path through
00:05:27.020 japan and where he was and who he was with there's a lot of kind of like research by proxy so knowing
00:05:31.600 that he was with Valignano up to a point, you can kind of follow Valignano's path. And then
00:05:35.500 knowing at which point he came into Nobunaga's service, then you start tracking Nobunaga. So
00:05:39.800 yeah, there's not a lot of kind of primary sourcing that lays out step by step.
00:05:45.120 There's certainly a lot of blanks to fill in and a lot of things that are open to interpretation as
00:05:49.920 well. But yeah, it's an interesting process to kind of, you kind of follow his path by
00:05:54.160 seeing who he was attached to. And so what, at what point did you decide I'm going to be the
00:05:59.880 one who's going to write the historical fiction novel about this person?
00:06:03.560 I had been doing this research, like I think it was around 2017, maybe, either 2017 or
00:06:09.040 2018, but I think 2017, when I kind of had first heard of Yasuke.
00:06:12.420 And so I started doing research and certainly I had the idea that it would make a really
00:06:18.600 great story, but I wasn't at all committed to writing it yet at that point, because it
00:06:23.420 does involve a lot of Japanese history.
00:06:25.700 And so I was concerned about like, maybe I'm not the right person to be doing this.
00:06:29.880 but really what it came down to is when the pandemic hit and I had so much free time on
00:06:35.620 my hands and I had to do something to keep myself from going nuts. I, you know, spent some time
00:06:40.300 going through it and thinking about it. And I, and so this is why I kind of decided to write
00:06:44.020 this in the first person. Originally, you know, if you write it in the third person, there's so
00:06:48.600 much other history that you can cover with this and so many other interesting people who, you know,
00:06:52.980 are not a part of this book, unfortunately, but I decided I can, I can write it as the first person
00:06:58.520 and then just kind of like keep the focus on Yasuke and I felt comfortable doing that.
00:07:03.120 It did mean cutting out a lot of other interesting characters in history,
00:07:07.440 but that was kind of really the way that I felt comfortable going forward with it.
00:07:10.920 But I really felt like, you know, there are some nonfiction books written about Yasuke
00:07:15.620 and some of them are quite good, but I didn't see anything kind of English language fiction
00:07:21.560 about Yasuke.
00:07:22.620 And so that was really kind of the big motivator to do this is, you know, fiction, of course,
00:07:27.700 allows you to create more of a character and just you know you can be a little bit freer I guess
00:07:35.940 in terms of trying to make this a real person and like flesh them out as a real person
00:07:41.140 as opposed to a non-fiction where you're limited to you know what what's available
00:07:46.540 that was something too when I saw that this book was coming out I was like oh I'm sure there's been
00:07:51.400 other novels about Yasuke before it's such an interesting story and they're like you just said
00:07:56.560 There really hasn't been. So it's a story that I think it's so cinematic. It's such a great story.
00:08:04.220 What a gift to you as a writer to be able to use this as a foundation for your novel.
00:08:08.160 Yeah, absolutely. It's an ideal that any time I talk to somebody about it, they're kind of
00:08:12.920 immediately fascinated by it. So it's never a hard sell. It appeals to a broad, broad stretch
00:08:21.380 of people you know like i said basically everyone i've come across even if it's they'll say that oh
00:08:26.620 that's not usually my thing but that sounds you know really interesting it's it's it's a story
00:08:30.860 that i think people are gonna really relate to and it's also i think just where i'd heard of
00:08:35.940 yasuke before just sort of briefly in the periphery i'd probably seen maybe the same
00:08:40.000 youtube video you had as well and i always had it in the back of my mind as an example of people
00:08:44.500 think in times like this like the 16th century everyone kind of stayed in their own country
00:08:50.600 for the most part like people didn't internationally travel where it's like well this man from africa
00:08:55.940 and he got there because of slavery he wasn't you know traveling around freely but just an example
00:09:01.540 he went there and he's clearly accepted by the japanese people i think it's such an interesting
00:09:05.700 example that the people have been traveling for so much earlier than i think a lot of people think
00:09:10.380 yes yeah so there's a couple things there so one um that was one of the things that interested me
00:09:15.480 as well is that they're really because the the japanese at that time had so little interaction
00:09:20.640 with africans there were no like negative stereotypes or anything associated with his
00:09:25.780 skin color that he had to overcome um there certainly would have been resistance from some
00:09:30.080 just because he's a foreigner but no more resistance than you know the europeans etc so
00:09:34.780 that's kind of like a unique situation really in fiction i've really never kind of come across that
00:09:39.760 before so that was a um you know really interesting element to me and then yeah as far as the movement
00:09:46.480 so while i'm researching this of course i end up going down all these rabbit holes and i started
00:09:50.840 reading about black vikings and black cowboys and black conquistadors and it really made me
00:09:58.160 recognize that that like black history is not a separate element from the rest of world history
00:10:03.600 You know, Africans and Caribbean, you know, they were part of all these major events around the world.
00:10:10.720 And, you know, in a lot of a lot of cases, maybe their stories weren't recognized or weren't recorded, but, you know, they were there.
00:10:19.760 And so I really love the idea of this story being a piece of black history, but that has a place in the larger world history context.
00:10:28.520 there's a part in your book just really stood out to me where he i think it's where his first meeting
00:10:34.780 the the japanese people and they say okay so you're you're also european like you came with
00:10:39.280 the europeans he's like no no i'm from africa he's like okay so africans and europeans they
00:10:43.180 work together a lot and he's he's the one who's like not really just having to explain yeah yeah
00:10:49.960 yes yeah so i was uh again i was i had you know i had fun writing that scene and because
00:10:55.840 you know i guess today we look at you know african and european as being like vastly different but
00:11:01.960 to the japanese of the day they're both just not japanese they wouldn't like they didn't
00:11:06.900 really make much of a distinction between i don't care if you came from here or there you're just
00:11:11.360 from somewhere else kind of thing so that was kind of you know interesting to be able to kind
00:11:15.460 of play around with that in that scene that does seem to be from from what i've been able to read
00:11:20.260 about kind of race relations in that time there's not a lot of course on race relations at the time
00:11:24.340 But from what I was able to read, that does seem to be the case.
00:11:28.740 Yeah, just reading the book, which I did read and which I really enjoyed.
00:11:32.840 So it's just so that listeners know who haven't read the book yet.
00:11:36.860 It's just so interesting, like you're describing it like it's just it's a person from Africa who's brought to Japan by the Portuguese.
00:11:44.580 Like it's just an element of world history that it's it's so different.
00:11:48.120 There's not that Western lens that there so often is in a historical fiction book.
00:11:52.880 it's completely different and that was so refreshing and so interesting yeah you know
00:11:57.560 obviously you know the word the u.s didn't exist yet so it's certainly kind of focused on on more
00:12:05.560 of that region it is an interesting story because people from europe people from africa people from
00:12:11.440 japan of course there there are characters from each of those areas that all play a central role
00:12:16.100 in this you know nobody's a background character it's it's really these three cultures uh intermingling
00:12:23.720 and one of the other things of course as i you know initially i thought that this would be a
00:12:31.280 story about culture clash but as i was kind of working through the story i started to see all
00:12:36.620 these interesting kind of like parallels with african and asian cultures that i'd never considered
00:12:42.220 before and i think the one that struck me most was kind of the legends around mount namuli in
00:12:47.660 mozambique and mount fuji uh in japan but then also the you know like the no masks and the uh
00:12:56.000 you know the masks that the africans used in the festivals and uh like the music and dancing um
00:13:01.920 like the tradition of kind of speaking to your ancestors and a lot of things like that i there
00:13:06.880 all these parallels and so um it was nice to kind of be surprised by that and then be able to shift
00:13:12.940 the story so that instead of writing about a culture clash it's these two men from vastly
00:13:16.820 different like cultures and backgrounds and upbringings who realize that they have a lot
00:13:22.260 more in common than they would have thought yeah so when you were deciding where i mean you say
00:13:28.980 this and i think it's in the the afterward in your book like no one knows where yassuke was from
00:13:32.980 But you had to make a decision when you're making this book.
00:13:37.500 There's a book from a Jesuit priest named Asolier, I think his name is, that does say that Yasky is from the Makor tribe in Mozambique.
00:13:46.800 However, that book was written in 1627, so it wasn't contemporary.
00:13:50.360 So people do dispute that.
00:13:52.060 There's plenty of reasons to kind of dispute the accuracy of that.
00:13:55.080 But I went with that because that's the only document that speaks about his origin.
00:13:59.400 But yeah, there are certainly there are other people that think that he was probably from Ethiopia or from Sudan. And I think they kind of based that off of the limited descriptions of his appearance or of the kind of activities of slave traders during that time. But yeah, I just went with the document, even though there is reason to dispute it.
00:14:21.740 And I think that it's really beautiful the way that you work in the aspects of his African
00:14:25.420 heritage in the book, because again, I don't know how much of this you're drawing from the sources,
00:14:29.680 but that he grew up until the age of what, about 12, probably in Africa. And then, so he has memory
00:14:35.720 of it, but it's been suppressed. But as he's in Japan, in your book, you're showing him
00:14:39.340 kind of remembering so much stuff. So it's a way to explain that part of his life as well.
00:14:45.220 So is that always part of your plan to write it, to have, to bring in his memories of Africa as
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00:17:50.460 Actually, in earlier drafts, I wrote it more chronologically,
00:17:54.400 where a lot of his childhood was kind of at the front.
00:17:57.360 And then working with the editor, she suggested that, you know,
00:18:00.160 the book really should start with his arrival in Japan.
00:18:02.400 And then you kind of work that in. So we kind of like significantly reworked it to have that come throughout the novel, which I think worked really well. That part of it is so it's based off of the actual customs of the of the Macra tribe. But as far as his childhood and that is all fictionalized, there's nothing really recorded about that. So that's not based off of any sourcing.
00:18:28.860 And there's something I just wanted to bring it up because it really stuck with me.
00:18:32.180 And I just took a screen capture of this part of your book in the afterward where you're
00:18:35.440 talking about the difference between written sources and oral traditions.
00:18:39.980 Can you talk about that?
00:18:41.500 So Yasuke just kind of disappears from the historical record after the events that are
00:18:45.940 presented here.
00:18:47.300 And that made me realize that really all we have are observations of him.
00:18:52.640 Everything that's written about Yasuke was written by the Japanese or by the Portuguese.
00:18:56.580 We don't have anything like a diary, a letter, a journal.
00:19:01.420 There's nothing from Yasuke himself.
00:19:04.860 It kind of makes me sad in a way because of that, we don't really talk about his actions.
00:19:11.740 And, you know, he's described as being like well-behaved and proper in all situations,
00:19:17.060 that kind of thing.
00:19:17.700 But you have no idea if that's who he is or if he felt that he had to be that way.
00:19:23.120 You know, I can't tell you if Yasuke was proud or happy or sad, depressed, bitter.
00:19:30.140 We don't know any of his kind of internal world because we don't have any written record from him.
00:19:36.260 And so but then like kind of expanding that out further, that's true to some extent about most of the histories of cultures that practice oral history.
00:19:48.280 And it made me think that now, again, I it's been a long time since I've been in school, so maybe things have changed.
00:19:54.500 But I know when I was in school learning about indigenous history, it was all based off of observations from settlers.
00:20:02.360 And so it's it's kind of amazing and a little bit depressing as well to think of how much history is unknown or possibly just lost because we don't have written records from from some cultures.
00:20:17.520 Oh, exactly. And that's where I think that historical fiction can really come in and help fill those gaps in a way to take the few things that we know about someone like Yassuke, the observations, and then to develop them into a story. So like returning it to kind of a storytelling, storytelling manner. Yeah.
00:20:32.860 Yeah, I always think, you know, a person's story is more powerful than any overwhelming statistics or anything like that. If you can just kind of write one person's story that people connect with, that helps them understand. It can help them understand the entire life and entire culture and etc. So yeah, I mean, I hope that comes through.
00:20:55.020 So you mentioned earlier that you were, you know, during the pandemic, etc.
00:20:59.080 But then also you're writing this book about Japan from the point of view of a man from Africa.
00:21:04.320 And this is, you say this also in your afterward that you weren't able to travel to Japan yourself to see these places.
00:21:10.120 Can you talk about how you were able to immerse yourself in the culture and to learn more about it?
00:21:14.380 yeah so uh you know initially of course i just started with you know books and uh internet
00:21:20.360 sourcing and then kind of expanded out to there to podcast and youtube series there were some
00:21:24.880 really good youtube series covering this period of history and so then eventually once i got to
00:21:29.860 the point where i was going to write about this by that point the pandemic had started and travel
00:21:34.180 was restricted so i hired a guide uh in japan to visit some sites for me and so some sites we were
00:21:41.000 able to do live walkthroughs it was kind of like early morning his time and late night my time but
00:21:45.800 other other places that that didn't work out and so he would do recorded walkthroughs uh and send
00:21:51.000 those to me and provide some context um and then so during the editing process then i was able to
00:21:56.320 go to japan uh so earlier this year when so the book we didn't close the book until i think april
00:22:01.840 so i was able to travel uh earlier this year and visit uh the ruins at azuchi castle uh and then
00:22:08.280 reconstruction in Honoji and a few other sites, and certainly was relieved to find that it was
00:22:13.440 the way that I had pictured it. But yeah, definitely being in lockdown presented some
00:22:19.120 challenges during the time that I was working on the early drafts.
00:22:24.060 I was also wondering what your personal background is with things like
00:22:27.960 martial arts and things like that. Is that something you're involved with in your personal
00:22:31.420 life? Not a lot, but I actually did a number of years ago, I did kendo lessons for, I didn't stick
00:22:37.720 with it too long i did maybe like six months of kendo lessons but so in the in the um in the book
00:22:42.880 when you read about yasuke struggling with the kneeling and how his knees and ankle take that
00:22:47.880 unfortunately is based off of a real life experience because uh i loved the training and
00:22:53.620 i hated the the kneeling it was uh i'm not a very flexible person so that was very painful for me
00:22:59.700 even though just like a couple minutes at the beginning and a couple minutes at the end that
00:23:03.060 was by far the worst part of the training for me but that was obviously that was before i heard
00:23:07.000 anything about Yasuke. So I did, that was just kind of something I did as a matter of interest,
00:23:11.020 but yeah, it proved to be helpful knowing a little bit about sword fighting.
00:23:16.440 No, I was just wondering because those parts of the book, I felt like they were written. I'm like,
00:23:20.180 oh, this is a person who knows, knows this world. So convincing job.
00:23:25.220 Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I have some experience, but I certainly don't think I
00:23:30.420 would have lasted long in that, uh, that period. Can you talk about what the role of a samurai
00:23:36.280 was like it's a word that is pretty widely known but i don't know if anybody i until i read this
00:23:41.760 book i didn't specifically know what a samurai meant can you explain what that role is in in
00:23:46.800 japan culture at that time yep so there's a couple things um so the the other term that's used quite
00:23:54.560 a bit is the ashigaru so those are the foot soldiers those are like conscripted soldiers
00:23:58.540 they're they do other things with their lives and whatever and are called into service when
00:24:03.080 they were acquired. Samurai are professional soldiers who were paid to train. And so fighting
00:24:09.320 was their job. But it's also like a social class as well. I would say the kind of ranking just
00:24:16.120 below the nobility. And so they had different privileges that commoners didn't have. And so
00:24:22.420 it's interesting that during Nobunaga's period, there was mobility between classes. And that's
00:24:28.680 why you see like Yasuke elevated to the role of samurai and there were a few others uh as well
00:24:33.800 and so but Nobunaga's successor uh Toyotomi Hideyoshi he enforced kind of a strict class policy
00:24:40.740 and so that mobility went away and and from that point forward it became an inherited position
00:24:46.860 but during Nobunaga's reign there was mobility between classes and so there were people were
00:24:53.180 basically elevated based off of merit and one of the other things that i learned or that became
00:24:59.960 apparent to me while i was researching this is that the idea of a impartially written history
00:25:04.700 is a pretty recent concept so you'll see history you'll see stories about nobunaga that present
00:25:10.000 him as an actual demon um and then you'll see other stories that talk about him like as a
00:25:15.860 progressive nation builder and i'm sure the truth is somewhere in between but um on this note in
00:25:22.420 particular, he does seem to be quite progressive in terms of promoting people based off of merit
00:25:26.500 rather than their social class or their family and et cetera. Well, and that just, what a time
00:25:32.300 for Yesike to have arrived there, like for him to have been given as a gift, you know, as an
00:25:36.880 enslaved person, but then he wound up in a place where it was this time when there was social
00:25:42.000 mobility was possible. He didn't just go there and then get forced into a similar role. He was
00:25:46.820 able to to make a name for himself just how fortunate exactly there are you know probably
00:25:53.300 a thousand points along the way where if one thing goes different nobody ever knows who he is
00:25:56.860 that's also part of what makes it an incredible story but also makes you think of how many of
00:26:01.360 those people were lost that you know if you think about slavery and you think about you know how
00:26:06.760 many millions of people never had an opportunity to do anything you know maybe you know they could
00:26:12.500 have been doctors it could have been scientists humanitarians etc you know but never had an
00:26:17.260 opportunity and so yasuke to me is an example of someone who through these kind of slivers of fate
00:26:23.100 did have an opportunity and as a result we still know who he is today it's a very narrow uh kind
00:26:29.300 of it's a narrow line between being remembered and forgotten oh exactly and just speaking of
00:26:34.440 we know who he is today so you mentioned there was the youtube you saw before there was also
00:26:38.180 wasn't there an animated series about Yasuke? There's a, there's an animated Netflix series
00:26:43.840 called, called Yasuke. And, uh, but it, it is, um, kind of science fiction based. Yeah. It's
00:26:50.600 not, it's not meant to be historically accurate, although it does, you know, bring in some of the
00:26:54.860 characters and, uh, and some of the historical elements, uh, but it's written as kind of like
00:26:59.360 a science fiction fantasy. Uh, but, but it's a good series. Uh, and, uh, yeah, so that, that was
00:27:05.700 anything that kind of helps introduce this character to an audience is appealing. Yeah.
00:27:11.480 No, exactly. And I think people who watch that could be like, like you were, it's like,
00:27:14.900 was this a real person? And then they can do the deep dive to see like, who is this really?
00:27:18.460 But speaking of Netflix and series, your book has been optioned, right? It's being turned into a
00:27:24.660 series? Yes. And the screenwriter is the screenwriter of the animated series. So he's
00:27:32.060 actually um and he's been wanting to do it like a more accurate retelling of it uh so it worked
00:27:37.460 it really well he's actually um he's a former marine who was stationed in japan uh for a while
00:27:43.020 and so that's how he came across the story so he was already kind of familiar with the story we've
00:27:46.560 had a couple of conversations and he's he's got some really great ideas so there was some some
00:27:52.000 development work that occurred on it and then with the writers guild strike that's currently in place
00:27:56.680 of course, everything's stalled. So we'll kind of see how that strike goes. But yeah, it's exciting
00:28:03.080 to know that that's on the horizon. And again, bringing this character to a larger audience.
00:28:10.320 Well, and that's what I was really happy when I saw it. I don't know if this is in the published
00:28:14.240 version, but in the advanced reader copy I got, there's a foreword that explains that this series
00:28:18.560 has been optioned and all that sort of stuff. And whenever I come across a story like this,
00:28:23.960 of a person from history who's not widely known especially like a black person or a person from
00:28:28.120 a marginalized background I always think I'm like why isn't this a movie this should be a movie
00:28:32.280 and then this one I'm like oh it is it's gonna be a tv series good yeah yeah I don't think that'll
00:28:38.000 be mentioned in the published version but uh yeah I and it certainly it stood out as like a very
00:28:45.900 cinematic story right from the beginning you know as soon as I as soon as I heard about it
00:28:50.480 probably the same as your reaction where you feel like this definitely belongs on a screen.
00:28:56.340 So yeah, I'm glad that it's kind of found its way into the right hands for that.
00:29:00.780 Well, no, it just, again, just really threading the needle, like there wasn't
00:29:04.280 really a major English language novel about this. And then you're the person who wrote it. And then
00:29:08.660 this screenwriter who's been wanting to turn this, you know, finds it about your book. So it's just,
00:29:13.040 you know, a series of really happy, happy, lucky things.
00:29:16.080 For sure. Yeah. I think they just ended up with it through word of mouth because obviously, you know, the book's not published yet. So I was quite surprised when they reached out. But I asked them how they got a hold of it. And I think somebody just like read a notice about the publication and contacted somebody said, hey, you might be interested. And it was just kind of like word of mouth that it kind of floated around and ended up in the right people's hands.
00:29:40.360 Yeah. And I think, again, it just speaks to the fact that this this man's story is like you said, whenever you mention it to people, even people who maybe don't read historical fiction or whatever, it's like everyone's interested. Like this story is just inherently interesting.
00:29:52.800 Yeah. And so it's also been, you know, it's been picked up by some international publishers and it's been picked up in some areas where there's not a significant black population or Japanese population.
00:30:03.300 So that's what, you know, I felt like this story had a universal appeal.
00:30:07.780 And so, you know, that's that kind of confirms that to me to know that, you know, publishing professionals are looking at us and saying it's not it's not a niche story by any means.
00:30:17.460 This is something that people of of all backgrounds and et cetera are going to be interested in.
00:30:25.940 Which is so interesting because it's the story of a man from Africa going to Japan.
00:30:30.940 there's not you know the typical like white savior character at all like it's really just
00:30:35.900 people of color for the most part yeah and i actually so that was one thing i was conscious
00:30:40.580 of when i was writing in is i also didn't want to turn him into a black savior you know i didn't
00:30:45.120 want to write a story of like yasuke saves japan yeah so i was very conscious of trying not to
00:30:50.520 over inflate uh his importance uh through any of the events but again by by just kind of staying
00:30:55.920 focused on his story i was still able to tell an interesting story without you know having him
00:30:59.720 save the world. Yeah, no. And again, it was just so interesting to read the book where it's just
00:31:04.460 like an African man in Japan. There's so many fictional novels about, I don't know, Henry VIII
00:31:12.020 or Napoleon or George Washington. So it's just really great to read this story that's like got
00:31:16.720 nothing to do with England or, you know, like kings or anything. It's just like Japan, Africa,
00:31:24.840 like that's where the story is set. It was really refreshing to me. Yeah. And I think a lot of people
00:31:29.280 when they read it are going to have. So when I started researching it, I thought, I know
00:31:35.800 Japanese history not too badly. And then as I started looking into it, I realized like, oh no,
00:31:40.660 this is, there's so much more here that I didn't know. And I think that's, you know, from early
00:31:45.580 readers that there's kind of been that response as well, that they didn't realize how much of
00:31:51.020 Japanese history they didn't know kind of thing. So I'm excited about that element of it as well.
00:31:55.300 so I guess my final question for you would just be like the book again like we're recording this
00:32:00.360 earlier it's going to come out this episode the same week that your book is published so what do
00:32:03.940 you hope what do you hope people get out of your book when they get when they're able to read it
00:32:07.600 well I hope they really connect with the character because that's you know what I
00:32:11.160 was most focused on is just trying to portray this individual in a realistic way but also
00:32:18.040 kind of a very human way of you know someone who's you know one of the things that really
00:32:23.700 attracted me about this character is his adaptability because so many times throughout
00:32:28.020 his life his circumstances change drastically and and often quite suddenly and like and still every
00:32:33.180 time it would be easy for him to just think of himself as a vic uh or kind of give in but instead
00:32:38.300 he kind of bounces back and finds a way to make himself more valuable than than what you know
00:32:44.600 the original person kind of thought he would be so he kind of proves his value at every step along
00:32:49.280 the way shows an incredible amount of adaptability and resiliency. So yeah, I hope that people
00:32:54.300 just connect with the character. And I also, even though, you know, there's some dark moments in the
00:33:01.240 book, there's, you know, some violence, which I really wanted to portray just to, because it was
00:33:07.260 a violent time. So I didn't want to shy away from any of those elements. But ultimately, you know,
00:33:12.160 I hope that people find this story to be a positive and a hopeful one.
00:33:15.980 no and absolutely that's that's what i found about it as well i mean thank you for joining
00:33:21.180 me to talk about your book it was the sort of book that i read it and i just thought i'm so
00:33:24.120 glad i get to talk to the author because i want to let you know how much i enjoyed it but i also
00:33:27.220 every question i just asked i was just like i really wanted to know more about how this came
00:33:30.420 to be how you connected to the story so thank you so much for joining me today and best of luck with
00:33:35.300 your book launch oh yes thank you so much uh i i i love the the podcast i'm looking forward to
00:33:40.960 hearing it released and it's been it's been a pleasure talking with you and i just wanted to
00:33:45.160 ask if people want to keep up with you i assume there's going to be events and things when your
00:33:48.460 book comes out do you have a website or social media where people can follow you so my website
00:33:52.940 is craigshreve.com uh so c-r-a-i-g-s-h-r-e-v-e.com and probably instagram would be best for social
00:34:03.760 media which is cg underscore shreve and so yeah there'll be the launch and then um i have a number
00:34:09.700 of uh kind of festival appearances that are booked and and i'm sure there'll be more coming so
00:34:14.600 So, yep, stay tuned for updates.
00:34:17.000 Fabulous.
00:34:17.480 Thank you again so much for joining me today.
00:34:19.500 Okay, thank you.
00:34:22.700 So Craig's book, The African Samurai, is now available as of the time that you're hearing
00:34:27.440 this episode.
00:34:28.120 It's available wherever you get books.
00:34:29.480 I think it's such an important and interesting book.
00:34:33.140 And it's a story that so many people, I think, will enjoy knowing about.
00:34:36.760 And clearly, Craig was the right person to be sharing this story.
00:34:39.580 So I hope you all check out this book.
00:34:41.840 There's a link in my show notes. If you buy using that bookshop link, then a little bit of money goes
00:34:46.560 to help support this podcast. But also you can just keep up with Craig and his book at his website,
00:34:51.920 which is craigshreve.com. And if you want to keep up with me in this podcast, I'm on Instagram and
00:34:58.520 also on threads. Actually, Craig is on threads. I saw him there as well. It's an interesting time
00:35:03.720 to be promoting a book when all the social media is sort of fluctuating, but he's there too. So
00:35:09.180 if you're in threads, you should follow Craig there. And while you're there, I'm also so vulgar
00:35:12.460 history pod on Instagram and threads. I'm also on Tik TOK at vulgar history. You can pick up some
00:35:17.740 vulgar history merchandise at vulgar history.com slash store. Or if you're outside the U S you can
00:35:22.580 also get some merch at vulgar history.redbubble.com. I also have a Patreon where for at least $1 a
00:35:30.760 month, if you pledge that support to me, then you get early ad free access to all episodes of vulgar
00:35:35.220 history. If you pledge $5 or more a month, and you also get bonus episodes and access to our
00:35:41.120 exclusive discord community. So anyway, you can learn more about that at vulgar history at
00:35:46.180 patreon.com slash and foster writer. And if you want to give it a try, you can get a seven day
00:35:50.580 free trial and just see what it's all about. Anyway, I was I'm sure you could tell I was
00:35:55.800 really excited to talk to Craig. I'm really excited about this book. I hope everybody
00:35:58.980 reads this book. And until next time, keep your pants on and your tits out. 1.00
00:36:05.220 Volker History is hosted, written, and researched by Anne Foster and edited by Christina Lumagi. 0.99
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