00:00:00.000Hi, Tits Out Brigade. It's me, Anne. I wanted to let you know about a fundraiser that I'm
00:00:07.660doing all this month, the month of April 2023. Trans rights are under attack seemingly everywhere,
00:00:14.640particularly in the United States. That's been in the news lately, but it's an issue
00:00:18.060all over the place. And I as a person and this podcast as an entity, we stand with all
00:00:24.280trans people everywhere. And so to raise some money, I'm running this fundraiser all
00:00:29.560month called Tits Out for trans rights. So you can get all the details if you go to vulgarhistory.com
00:00:34.940slash donate. That's vulgarhistory.com slash donate. It's two-pronged, the fundraiser. So
00:00:41.300first of all, I'm raising money for the Trevor Project, which is an American organization that
00:00:45.620supports LGBTQ plus people. And then also I've got a new item in the merch store, which is an item
00:00:52.200featuring trans icon, the Chevalier Day On, who I talked about in an episode last season with guest
00:00:58.480host, Maya Dean. And all the proceeds from sales of the Chevalier Day On merchandise this month
00:01:05.120is going to be donated to Point of Pride, which is another American organization that helps support
00:01:10.360trans people. If there's another organization that you're planning to support this month anyway,
00:01:14.940somewhere close to home, something that is meaningful to you that supports trans people,
00:01:18.620there's a form also on my website where you can just list what the donation was and who you gave
00:01:23.300the money too. So at the end of the month, I can give a grand total of how much the Tits Out Brigade0.84
00:01:29.040was able to raise as part of this fundraiser. Also for everybody who wants to, I will give you
00:01:35.100a shout out to all the people who donate in a later episode of Vulgar History. So again,
00:01:40.000you can get all the details of this fundraiser at vulgarhistory.com slash donate. Tits out for trans rights.0.97
00:01:53.300Hello, welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast. My name is
00:02:07.520Anne Foster, and this is a special episode. I'm talking with author Max Wallace about a book that
00:02:14.040when I first saw it listed, I was just like, what? When I saw the name of the title and the
00:02:19.500subtitle, and then I looked into it and I was just like, oh, first of all, I need to read this
00:02:22.880book. And second of all, I hope I can talk to this author on the podcast and both came true.
00:02:26.740So he's written a biography of Helen Keller. It's called After the Miracle,
00:02:31.960The Political Crusades of Helen Keller. And it is such a fascinating read. I thought I knew the
00:02:39.740deal with Helen Keller. And we talk about this a bit in the interview that you're about to hear.
00:02:44.720And so I just want to go over sort of the widely known, the widely known saga of Helen Keller,
00:02:49.460which is that she was a little girl in Alabama. When she was 19 months old, she contracted an
00:02:56.900illness that ended up making her deaf-blind. So she couldn't see, she couldn't hear. And then
00:03:02.780sort of the narrative is that she was just this kind of feral child and nobody could get through
00:03:08.060to her until a woman named Annie Sullivan came to teach her. And then the really big aha moment,
00:03:14.560famously recounted in Helen Keller's own autobiography and then later in the play
00:03:19.620and the movie The Miracle Worker. There's a moment when Helen Keller was six years old
00:03:23.780and so Annie Sullivan had been spelling out letters in her hand and it just didn't seem
00:03:28.200like Helen was really connecting the letters being spelled out with the objects that she
00:03:33.000was being shown. There is a moment where Annie Sullivan held one of Helen Keller's hands
00:03:38.000underwater from a water pump and spelled out water on Helen Keller's palm. And then this was
00:03:45.260the moment where it just seemed like Helen Keller would like that, that clicked for her, like, oh,
00:03:50.680this means this, this means this. And so a lot of the story of Helen Keller has been interpreted as
00:03:58.380sort of like Annie Sullivan, like it's called the miracle worker. It's Annie Sullivan is the
00:04:01.940miracle worker. Like it was a miracle that she taught Helen how to read and write and communicate
00:04:08.520And as this book explains, Helen herself, I don't know, with a different teacher, similar or different things might have happened.
00:04:17.080But the person that Helen Keller was, like, thank goodness that we're able to know what she was like, because it turns out, as much as she is still remembered today, is this kind of saintly advocate for the blind and for the deaf.
00:04:29.900She was, in fact, a radical activist and advocate for her whole life.
00:04:36.220And anyway, so Max Wallace is here with me to talk about the legacy of Helen Keller and how he's revisited it in this book.
00:04:45.460So I hope you enjoy this chat between me and Max Wallace.
00:05:09.200Well, like most people, you know, I read the story of my life.
00:05:13.820I think I was forced to read the story of my life in grade school.
00:05:16.720And so, again, like most people, my image of Helen Keller was a six-year-old blind girl,
00:05:24.140deaf-blind girl at the water pump in Alabama.
00:05:27.580And that's all they ever told us about Helen Keller.
00:05:31.700And then, you know, imagine my surprise years later, I'm a historian and I was doing a book about Nazi Germany, about the Third Reich, Charles Lindbergh's Nazi affiliations.
00:05:43.020And I come across Helen Keller, you know, raising her voice against Hitler, against the rise of Nazism.
00:05:50.880And then I did another Holocaust book a few years later, and I find that Hitler is burning her books and banning other books and censoring other books.
00:06:02.440And so they never told us about that side of hell and cover, that's for sure. So I was very intrigued.0.93
00:06:09.900And was that where your decision to make this book came from, just sort of figuring out what on earth was she doing in this Holocaust story?
00:06:18.480Oh, exactly. And then I started looking into her and I was, I was captivated by this incredible figure that, you know, no, very few people know this other side of her, her, you know, this all happened. Her legacy was forged when she was six years old, but she lived till 88. She lived till 1968. And nobody ever talks about her incredible adult life.
00:06:42.140And, you know, the other part was kind of boring. You know, there's a term for it now, inspiration porn. Disability advocates call it this uplifting story that's designed to make non-disabled people feel uplifted and inspired. And that never really interested me.
00:07:01.800My aunt was blind. So I did know that, you know, the obstacles that people with disabilities go through to some extent, right, just seeing the obstacles that my aunt faced. But I was never really inspired by that story of Helen Keller at the water pump. But when I discovered this side of her, I was very inspired.
00:07:24.780Honestly, when I came across your book, just in a list of, you know, upcoming books, even just the title, The Political Crusades of Helen Keller, and I thought, the what now? Because I had the exact same understanding. She was kind of a deafblind girl who learned how to communicate. And I just never knew or thought to look into what did she do after that. And so it was incredible, all the everything you have in here.
00:07:47.720So can you, you know, people should read the book to get the whole story, but some highlights of what she did after age six.
00:07:57.480Well, she, you know, part of the original story that I guess people also knew was that she was the first deafblind person to graduate from university.
00:11:16.740There was a very concerted effort to cast her as a secular saint.
00:11:21.860So even when they did talk about her adult life, it was always supposed to be as a shining symbol of overcoming adversity, resilience, etc.
00:11:34.960So it comes as a shock to all Americans.
00:11:37.600in 1912, she suddenly announces that she's joined the Socialist Party of America.
00:11:42.880And not only that, but she's no garden variety moderate socialist who believes in achieving
00:11:49.340socialism at the ballot box. She starts to talk about revolution. And the only way to transform
00:11:55.140society is through a full scale revolution. And part of this, the epiphany, this is what I
00:12:02.240discovered that, you know, the famous epiphany without Helen Keller is Annie Sullivan runs her
00:12:08.380hand on water over her hand under the water pump in Alabama when she's six. But the real epiphany
00:12:16.120that I discovered is when Helen Keller discovered that the majority of blindness and disability in
00:12:24.580America is caused by workplace accidents resulting from a lack of worker safety. So this is an
00:12:31.260epiphany for her and she starts to link disability with capitalism and she travels the country
00:12:37.980talking about the commercial uh the greed of commercial society and you know people are
00:12:47.180expecting to hear her talk about her inspirational story and she's indicting capitalism so needless
00:12:54.600to say this is not well received by the media by the public the media starts to this ableist
00:13:02.260narrative uh attaches to her where she must have been manipulated by those around her though the
00:13:08.380wonderful blind girl certainly could never have come up with this uh on her own so annie sullivan
00:13:16.200gets blamed and ironically annie sullivan was very conservative um you know helen keller is a staunch1.00
00:13:23.820feminist. She becomes a militant suffragette. And Annie Sullivan doesn't believe in socialism.0.91
00:13:29.240She doesn't believe in suffragism. She doesn't think the women are capable of exercising the1.00
00:13:33.880vote. While Helen Keller's telling the New York Times that she's a militant suffragette for one1.00
00:13:41.740reason, because suffragism will lead to socialism. Socialism is the ideal cause. But people just0.82
00:13:48.300can't accept that Helen Keller could have come to this, these radical ideas by herself.
00:13:57.320She must have been manipulated by people around her. And this continues throughout her whole life,
00:14:03.460this ableist narrative about how, well, no, Helen's a saint, so it must be the people around
00:14:10.240her, the communists, the socialists, Annie Sullivan, are manipulating her. And very typical.
00:14:17.280She's very outraged in the beginning.0.96
00:14:19.200She is very feisty, and her rhetoric is revolutionary,
00:14:26.680and she's outraged by this, and she's very funny, too.
00:14:30.280She has this incredible sense of humor.
00:14:36.140A lot of people have discovered that her wit is very biting,
00:14:43.400And she starts to use her sense of humor to counter this ableist narrative. So she writes these essays mocking the media for assuming that she's been manipulated by those around her. And she's always smarter than her critics.
00:15:02.280So I think a lot of this went over their heads, but it's quite fascinating to watch these these rhetorical strategies that she uses to counter the ableist narrative that that's always greeting her political ideas.
00:15:16.540And she she stops. So at one point, she becomes very conscious of her financial limitations.
00:15:54.940But unfortunately, she realizes that she's going to have to tone down the rhetoric. She's seeking money. She's going hat in hand to these capitalists that she's been condemning a couple of years earlier. And so she stops that revolutionary rhetoric, but she does not stop believing in socialism.
00:16:15.120She just sort of tones down her approach. And this is the part of the narrative that's attached to even her political side, is that after 1924, after she goes to work for the American Foundation for the Blind, she becomes apolitical.
00:16:35.120political. Her politics have mellowed. Her nephew gives an interview years later saying that her
00:16:41.840early socialist politics are a historical relic. So it's acknowledged. There's documentaries and
00:16:48.160biographies that talk about her early socialist ideas. But this all supposedly came to an end in
00:16:54.9801924. After that, she becomes mostly liberal in her outlook on society. But I discovered a very
00:17:02.980different story. I probed FBI files, intelligence dossiers, private archives that actually revealed
00:17:11.280she moved to the left after 1924. The Bolshevik revolution in Russia inspires her. And she
00:17:22.760starts to take a very left wing, much further to the left than her old socialist analysis.
00:17:30.500She starts to almost parrot the communist party line for a couple of decades.
00:17:39.200And this is another side of her that's been swept under the rug.
00:17:43.020Even those, you know, they acknowledge that she was once a socialist can't accept that she was actually a communist.
00:17:50.920And now we're just going to take a break for a word from our sponsors.
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00:21:03.480And we're back. Well, and you say in your book, there's a part, one of the,
00:21:07.440one of the many interesting things about your book is you sort of interrogate previous biographies
00:21:13.120of her. And one of those called her socialism, a phase or something like that. And you're like
00:21:18.900a phase that lasted 15 years. Like that's not. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, the most her most
00:21:26.080celebrated biographer is Joseph Flash, who writes the first major biography of Helen Keller in 1980.
00:21:32.420And he was a socialist before the war. So he's very sympathetic to her early socialist politics. But then starting in the 30s, it's very clear that she's moved to the left. She makes no secret of her admiration for the Bolshevik revolution.
00:21:49.600She calls Vladimir Lenin the greatest living figure repeatedly during her vaudeville tour, and she spends the next three decades championing the Bolshevik revolution.
00:22:04.820So it's very clear that she has a lot of admiration for communism.
00:22:08.860She soured on Stalin early on. She realized that he's a tyrant. So she's quite critical of Stalin, but still retains this admiration for Bolshevism. And yet Joseph Lash in 1980, years later, he talks about how she was duped by the communists because she started to embrace the anti-fascist cause during the Spanish Civil War.
00:22:37.040and travels with the Abraham Lincoln Brigade,
00:22:40.960which had been formed by the Communist International.
00:22:45.820And so she's a very strong opponent of fascism.
00:22:52.280First, she's denouncing Hitler very early on,
00:22:57.220before most people knew what was happening in Germany.0.56
00:23:11.200She's almost the epitome of Antifa, you know, long before that became a pejorative of the far right.
00:23:17.380And then the Spanish Civil War happens, and she's very prophetic.
00:23:24.640She speaks six languages, including German.
00:23:27.360So she's reading periodicals in Germany.
00:23:29.500She knows a lot more about what's happening in Europe than the average American because she's reading the news in all these various languages.
00:23:42.820She's criticizing the New York Times for being too soft on Hitler.
00:23:47.420So she spends the whole decade, you know, as a crusader against fascism.
00:23:52.960And yet, according to her major biographer, she's been duped.
00:23:56.500But again, you know, this ableist narrative that starts in the in the 1910s is still there in 1980.
00:24:07.340uh so and probably probably today i'm sure there are a lot of people that that hear about you know
00:24:15.120her political crusades and figure oh well she must have been she must have been manipulated by0.74
00:24:20.020by these people because the the wonderful helen keller could never embrace the an ideology that
00:24:27.620goes against america and that's what's so fascinating to me like when i was reading
00:24:32.560reading this book every page I was just like what like the the amount of um major civil rights
00:24:38.920figures that she's interacting with like you you open the book with her her thoughts about the
00:24:43.360arrest of Nelson Mandela like it's just she I picture her as this little girl in you know 1900s
00:24:49.920early 1900s so it's she lived for most like up till 19 is it 68 she died in 1968 yeah like she
00:24:57.080lived through so many major political moments in history, and she had a strong opinion about
00:25:03.700all of them, and she wrote about it. Exactly. So it's out there, right? This isn't
00:25:09.420a secret, and yet most people have no idea. And they certainly have no idea that she continued
00:25:15.280these political states after 1924. So yeah, you mentioned Nelson Mandela. I came across in an
00:25:24.440archive. And this has never been revealed that, um, that in 1950, 1956, uh, Nelson Mandela and
00:25:34.020the entire, uh, African national Congress, uh, are arrested in a pre-dawn raid and put on trial
00:25:40.720for treason. Uh, and they're facing the death penalty. This is a long time before anybody's
00:25:46.300heard of Nelson Mandela before apartheid becomes a liberal cause celebre. And, uh, Helen Keller
00:25:53.860had traveled to South Africa. She spent two and a half months in South Africa in 1951,
00:25:59.520just three years after apartheid had been implemented. And she was appalled by what she
00:26:05.180discovered. Now, she's from the South. She's from Alabama. And in Alabama, at that time,1.00
00:26:14.940the conditions facing African Americans were not that different than the condition facing
00:26:20.660black South Africans. I interviewed two of Mohandas Gandhi's grandchildren who met her
00:26:28.000during that tour. And one of his granddaughter, Ella Gandhi, ended up under house arrest years
00:26:37.080later. She worked for the African National Congress. She was an MP and an ally of Mandela.
00:26:44.720And I asked her, you know, why do you think Helen Keller was so shaken by apartheid?
00:26:52.760It wasn't that much different than Alabama at that time.
00:26:56.180She said she thought the major difference was that in Alabama, a large white minority was oppressing the black minority.
00:27:08.580But in South Africa, it was a tiny white minority oppressing a massive black majority. That would have been the major difference between Alabama and South Africa in 1951.
00:27:21.120So then a few years later, the dissidents start to organize against apartheid.
00:27:31.280Nelson Mandela is arrested, put on trial for treason, and the civil rights activist writes to Helen Keller in 1959, asking her if she'll help raise money for the defense fund.
00:27:44.440They're running out of money. Mandel and the others are facing the death penalty. And they thought that, you know, an appeal from a beloved figure like Helen Keller would might help the cause.
00:27:58.240Now, this is the height of the Red Scare. Helen had spoken out against McCarthy, publicly spoke out against McCarthy and McCarthyism. And she, again, faced intense pressure from her employer to hold her this is jeopardizing your reputation, the cause of the blind community.
00:28:22.480And yet when she gets this letter asking for her to issue an appeal for funds, she doesn't hesitate. She writes this very poignant letter about the poison. We have to stop the poison of racism and oppression.0.99
00:28:43.160So she issues this letter as well as a financial appeal.
00:28:47.760And, you know, that's never been revealed.
00:28:49.820It's just one more incredible story from her life that's been ignored or forgotten in favor of a more familiar narrative.
00:29:15.040But it's I love that all this stuff is coming out now.
00:29:18.340But can you talk a bit, too, about some of the more problematic, some of the more problematic views?
00:29:23.960I'm thinking specifically about eugenics.
00:29:25.780Yeah. So in 1915, she very briefly now, this is a period where the socialists, so-called progressive figures have embraced eugenics, the idea of selective breeding or the there was this idea that eugenics would help curb the misery of overpopulation and poverty.
00:29:54.360This was certainly Helen's rationale. Her very good friend and socialist comrade Margaret Sanger, who we now know as the founder of Planned Parenthood and a celebrated figure in feminist history, was a very ardent eugenicist.
00:30:13.180And, and so that a baby is born in Chicago, the Bollinger baby with very severe birth defects. And Helen weighs in, she shocks a lot of her admirers by the, the, the doctor, the doctor that treated this baby decided that the baby was better off dying.
00:30:37.260He was a staunch eugenicist himself, and this sort of furthered his agenda.
00:30:43.260And Helen weighs in and says, you know, a baby with these severe defects is almost certain to become a criminal.
00:30:51.540So she parrots this eugenic line, and it's a little bit shocking,
00:30:58.180considering the compassion that she always showed for the most vulnerable members of society.
00:31:04.460This is the only real example. And then, you know, two decades later, she reverses course. She uses her status as a disability icon to condemn Hitler's eugenic policies. So yet it certainly has cast a stain on her reputation among some segments of the disabled community.
00:31:31.140Well, and I think it really, what I find really impressive about her is she was a woman who was consistently, like you were saying, she knew several different languages.
00:34:09.140She was clearly a prodigy, you know, sort of a once in a lifetime mind.
00:34:14.700Well, and I think I read, I forget if it was on the back of your book, or if it was one of the reviews, it said, Helen Keller, like she's known for learning how to speak. And then your book is talking about what she did with her voice. And I thought that was a beautiful way to explain kind of what your book is doing.
00:34:31.180And honestly, it's so shocking to me. So now I think to learn all this stuff about Helen Keller that is not so widely known. And you see her on quotes, inspirational quotes, you know, the Helen Keller Barbie doll. And she's still very much seen as this kind of like saintly person who all she ever did was be deafblind.
00:34:51.680And apart from her politics, which obviously my book focuses a lot on her political views, but I was really captivated by her as a person. She loved to drink, loved to beer. She loved dirty jokes.
00:35:06.940you know mark twain she talked about how mark twain she was she was drawn to mark twain uh
00:35:13.920because the profanity it came from his uh from his mouth right people talk about their friendship
00:35:20.280but they never talk about that side of her you don't want to be thinking of you know ellen
00:35:25.240ellen uh exchanging dirty jokes with mark twain and other people she was friends with
00:35:30.140harpo marx and dorothy parker and a lot of people associated with with wit they they loved her sense
00:35:38.440of humor and that you know she she um she went on vaudeville for a few years and and uh there was
00:35:45.580always a question and answer session at the end of each performance and that was often the highlight
00:35:51.560the audience would ask her a question so somebody would say what do you think of capitalism she said
00:35:57.280it's outlived its usefulness. What did America get out of the First World War? The American
00:36:01.820Legion and a bunch of other troubles. The audience roaring with laughter while making
00:36:07.740these political blinks. So, you know, I love that side of her other than the politics.
00:36:13.700Yeah. So it's really what I think is really great about your book is it's uncovering
00:36:17.800the human being, like the person, what's her personality? What were her opinions? What were
00:36:22.560her thoughts behind this oversized myth like i i thought i knew who helen keller was but i just
00:36:28.900kind of knew the the mythology of a person who wasn't really a human right right yeah so i i'm
00:36:37.400you know i'm hoping readers will will sort of leave with that that side of it there's a lot
00:36:41.940of great progressive disability advocates today that have sort of taken up that mantle
00:36:46.180Well, you know, she's sort of an anachronism amongst some segments of the disability community.
00:36:54.020But I'd love people to be left with that image of this, you know, feisty woman who fought the good fight while enjoying a beer and a dirty joke instead of the six-year-old girl at the water pump.
00:37:13.560I was going to say, what do you hope people get out of the book?
00:37:15.220what do you think the connection between actually here's my final question for you
00:37:19.060if Helen Keller was around today what do you think she would be up to
00:37:22.280oh I think she would have you know all through her life you know when there was a when there0.99
00:37:27.900was a conservative politician in power she loved nothing more than to take them on she uh you know0.60
00:37:35.160I could just picture her on the war path against Trump and and his ilk uh so you know a disability
00:37:44.140advocates criticized her a few years ago and said that Helen Keller is not radical at all.1.00
00:37:49.340She's just another privileged white woman. History telling the story of a privileged white woman.
00:37:55.940And Ted Cruz immediately tweeted his outrage at this. How dare you call the great Helen Keller0.68
00:38:01.860privileged? You know, if Helen were around to see herself defended by a politician that stands for
00:38:12.700everything she opposed in her lifetime. I think one of her favorite epithets was a dung beetle.0.99
00:38:18.180She called this right wing columnist, the dung beetle, Westbrook Pegler in the 50s.0.75
00:38:23.180I'm sure I could just picture her calling Ted Cruz a dung beetle for defending her.
00:38:28.760Well, I mean, that's just you mentioned in the book, too. And it's such a
00:38:31.920beautiful illustration of the misunderstanding of her entire legacy and what she was about.
00:38:36.900Right. Where somebody like Ted Cruz, you know, can can summon her image to serve his agenda. You know, it's a little bit troubling that, that, that, you know, people, if Ted Cruz only knew that he was defending a radical socialist.
00:38:53.900socialist. Exactly. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really, I'm going to press on my
00:39:02.400listeners. This is such an interesting and fascinating book. And just some of the sources
00:39:06.540you're mentioning, it's like you're saying you're getting the FBI files and stuff. You really
00:39:11.500are unearthing some fascinating information that's never been widely known about Helen
00:39:18.080Kellen. I think that's so important. Thanks, Anne. Yeah, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
00:39:23.900So again, this book is now available wherever you like to get your books from.
00:39:28.960After the Miracle, The Political Crusades of Helen Keller by Max Wallace. And honestly,
00:39:33.740like I think I said this in the interview, but reading this book was just blowing my mind. She's
00:39:37.700almost like a Forrest Gump level person, like every prominent figure of the 20th century.
00:39:45.260Somehow she either was friends with them if they were cool, or she wrote angry letters to them
00:39:50.060if they were awful. She was just all up in everything. And it's wild to me that even while
00:39:55.140she was alive and her legacy now just doesn't discounts either that this is what she was
00:40:00.440actually like discounts that these are actually what she thought. It's such an interesting good
00:40:04.700book. I super recommend it. And this is the Vulgar History Podcast. So to keep up with me and with
00:40:11.000this podcast, I'm on Instagram at vulgarhistorypod and I'm also on TikTok at vulgarhistory. And
00:40:18.520And, you know, I was just thinking, too, that this really ties in with some other conversations we've been having on this podcast about how when history is taught to people like those, the understanding, like, for instance, of Helen Keller, it's like, this is what she was like, and this is what her story was like.
00:40:34.740so any new information that challenges the concept that she is this this little girl at
00:40:40.260the water pump who then grows up to just be this kind of like saintly advocate it's like well no
00:40:45.020here's letters and documents and proof that this is there was more to her than just that it's met
00:40:50.100i think by with some resistance from people who can't who don't want to reinterpret what they
00:40:57.180had been taught what they thought helen keller's whole story was so that's where it turns into as
00:41:01.280Max was saying she was manipulated to think these things like it was just a phase like she couldn't
00:41:06.760possibly have have been the person who she clearly was for 80 plus years of life anyway we're getting
00:41:15.440to such interesting stuff lately on the podcast and this book ties in so tidily with it I was
00:41:20.260really happy to be able to talk with Max anyway um yeah what was I saying vulgar history um we
00:41:25.960also have a patreon if you want to listen to this podcast um ad free and early access to episodes
00:41:31.060if you join my Patreon and for at least a dollar a month, you get the early ad free access. And for
00:41:36.200$5 a month, you get the bonus episodes as well. My name is Anne Foster. This is Vulgar History
00:41:42.680Podcast. We'll be back with another episode really soon. There's a lot of episodes coming
00:41:47.040up this month and next month because between the stuff I'm doing and all these books that are being
00:41:51.080published that I want to talk to the authors about, there's going to be like this week,
00:41:54.140there's going to be several more weeks with two episodes per week. So enjoy. Anyway, until next
00:41:59.940time, keep your pants on and your tits out. Vulgar History is hosted, written, and researched1.00
00:42:06.200by Anne Foster and edited by Christina Lumagi.
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