Vulgar History - French Revolution： Radicals (part 5)： The Triple Agent

00:00:00.000 hello and welcome to vulgar history of feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann

00:00:17.160 foster and this season we're looking at well this part of this season we're looking at the

00:00:22.680 women of the french revolution and i have to say some of these stories are real bummers

00:00:28.260 I try to stay in the moment of the story, but I know it's coming towards the end.

00:00:34.480 And, you know, there's not been a lot of happy endings.

00:00:37.720 And this episode is like that, too.

00:00:41.040 But it's a different sort of point of view of the French Revolution because our main character is from the Netherlands.

00:00:49.880 And I guess we've had other people, like, wasn't Tyrone?

00:00:52.620 One of the other people is from Belgium or something.

00:00:54.740 But this is a bit of a different story.

00:00:57.120 although she does end up in the same place as all of the other people we're going to go through a

00:01:02.080 lot of the events that we've discussed from other points of view already in the french revolution

00:01:06.320 but i came across this person who is etta is her name and just as i was researching some of the

00:01:13.580 other women of the french revolution it's interesting because you start i start seeing

00:01:18.280 sort of like oh well you know the women of the french revolution it's like well there's olympe

00:01:21.400 de gouge turon de mary court there's claire lacombe pauline leon like names kept adding and

00:01:26.580 And they're like, oh, and also there is Etta Palme de Elders.

00:01:30.100 And I was like, who is this person?

00:01:32.200 But I think this is it.

00:01:34.260 These are the ladies of the French Revolution on the Jacobin side. 0.80

00:01:39.140 We're going to get into some Girondins starting next week. 0.78

00:01:42.540 But Etta was a happy surprise to me.

00:01:44.640 And I had to dig around a bit more for information about her

00:01:47.700 because she's not written about as much as others.

00:01:50.140 And that's because, my friends, she was a spy.

00:01:53.240 and one of the things about being a good spy is the stuff that you do is not always written down

00:02:00.480 and you can't find it there wasn't she wasn't sort of person who is posting all the state 0.98

00:02:05.780 secrets on a signal chat like she knew her shit and she was good at it and how did this woman 0.96

00:02:11.880 from Groningen in the Netherlands end up in the midst of the French Revolution to the point that 0.99

00:02:16.300 she's mentioned in a lot of sources alongside Tyrone de Maricor or Olympe de Gouge. Well,

00:02:23.340 that's the story we're going to get into today. And I also huge, huge, huge thanks to several

00:02:30.960 people from the Netherlands, people who speak Dutch, who I, there are some names here and I

00:02:37.060 hope you'll be impressed with my pronunciation because I learned the pronunciation from several

00:02:40.780 people from the Netherlands who recorded voice memos or videos for me pronouncing these words,

00:02:47.020 and I listened to all of them, slash watched all of them. It's interesting. Most of the words,

00:02:51.540 everybody said the same way, but there's some maybe regional differences in some of them,

00:02:55.340 so I'm just going to kind of go with what feels right to me, but I'm doing my best,

00:02:58.960 and the Netherlands tits out brigade, you really showed up for me, and I appreciate it.

00:03:04.580 So today's heroine is Edda Lubina Johanna Derista Alders, who was born into a middle-class family in Kroningen, Netherlands, in April 1743.

00:03:17.660 See, she's such a spy, I don't even have a date, but I'm going to guess April 15th, because that's my birthday, and I vibe with her.

00:03:24.340 So she's born April 1743, the child of Johann Alders von Neuenhaus, a wallpaper merchant and pawnbroker. Wallpaper merchant is an interesting job. I don't recall having seen on this show before. And Johann's second wife, Achata Pirtonella de Sitter, daughter of a silk cloth merchant.

00:03:45.740 So we're in a merchant class. Although, Achata's family had never approved of this match because

00:03:51.020 Johan was of a lower social standing than her, even though they were merchants. I guess one is

00:03:54.940 more like a fancy merchant. I guess, silk cloth merchant versus wallpaper. I don't know the ranks

00:04:01.480 of merchants, but anyway. Johan died when Etta was six years old. And at this point, Achata took over

00:04:10.340 the family's business, both the wallpaper shop and also, if you'll recall, he's also a pawnbroker.

00:04:16.240 And her family, again, didn't approve of this. 1.00

00:04:18.420 Like, Ahata's family, like, take all of the seats. 0.77

00:04:21.980 They didn't approve because they didn't think that this was an appropriate occupation for a lady of her rank.

00:04:26.260 But it's like, who else is going to run these businesses to, like, keep this household thriving and to keep little baby spy Etta, you know, fed and closed and housed?

00:04:35.760 Come on.

00:04:36.420 Ahata kept the same business partner who Johan had worked with in these businesses, who was a Jewish man.

00:04:42.500 and this had an effect because in the netherlands at this time widespread anti-semitism meant that

00:04:49.380 there was discrimination against ahata for working with him and including the authorities withdrew

00:04:55.700 her license to run a pawn shop and the business went bankrupt so that sucks for everybody all

00:05:03.800 concerned but i guess maybe the wallpaper biz was still going or maybe she had some family money

00:05:09.320 from the silk cloth trade

00:05:11.160 because they kept going

00:05:12.320 and they weren't poverty-stricken.

00:05:14.520 And Achata ensured that little baby Etta

00:05:16.620 got a good education.

00:05:18.360 She learned German, French, English,

00:05:20.060 and perhaps a little Italian,

00:05:21.860 which was much more of an education 0.87

00:05:24.540 than a girl from a non-aristocratic family

00:05:27.320 at the time would usually get.

00:05:29.680 So Etta was really just like,

00:05:30.840 I'm getting at my daughter, trained up.

00:05:32.340 And you know what?

00:05:32.880 Thank God she did

00:05:33.500 because Etta became a spy 1.00

00:05:35.700 and she needed all these languages 0.94

00:05:37.640 for spy reasons.

00:05:38.760 was she being raised to be a spy was this like the netherlands black widow program i'm not saying it

00:05:46.300 was but we don't have the paperwork because of all the spy stuff is this like the kingsmen is

00:05:53.600 that the movie about like british people who are spies like is there like a spy school i'm gonna

00:05:59.260 have to do a lot of theorizing here because again the spy the spinous of it all we don't have a

00:06:05.300 super lot of details about Etta. So we'll just fill in the blanks. We'll have a nice

00:06:08.700 time. These have been some grim ass episodes. So let's just have a nice time while we can. 0.83

00:06:14.060 Anyway, Etta was thriving. She grew up, she was the it girl around town. She was the Serena

00:06:19.360 Vanderwoodsen of her age. I think that's a Dutch name as well. But she was gorgeous.

00:06:24.300 She was popular with, there was a university in Groningen, perhaps there still is. And

00:06:29.700 she's popular with the university students, like those guys where I was like, ooh, who's

00:06:34.020 this gorgeous girl. And she had charisma and talent and everything. We're going to see that

00:06:38.980 later on. People love to be around her and to tell her secrets, which is again, crucial to her

00:06:44.920 success later on. As a spy. So in this time, in her teenage years, she received several marriage 0.94

00:06:51.740 proposals, including one from a married man. So I'm not sure what that guy was up to. All of which

00:06:58.000 she turned down. She's too busy training to be a spy. When she was 19, she fell in love 0.99

00:07:03.640 with one of these students whose name was Christian Ferdinand Loderwag Pallum. I'll say

00:07:11.180 that again because I do have the pronunciation written down for me. Thank you, people of the

00:07:15.900 Netherlands. Christian Ferdinand Loderwag Pallum, who was the son of a prosecutor in Harlem in the

00:07:24.800 Netherlands. Her mother opposed the marriage. And I like the generational thing of like,

00:07:29.620 Akhata's parents disapproved of her marriage, that Akhata disapproves of this marriage for Etta. 0.95

00:07:34.640 Etta didn't care. She eloped with Christiane. And this is where she got her surname because she's 0.81

00:07:40.100 Palm Elders. Like she was born Elders and then she married Mr. Palem. Anyway, they eloped and

00:07:46.280 it became quickly apparent that this was not a good match. She continued sleeping around with

00:07:51.420 other people. He continued sleeping around with other people. She eventually became pregnant and

00:07:56.520 he's like, who's the father? She's like, I don't know. And he left her to go to the Dutch colonies

00:08:02.000 of the East Indies. And he's not in the story again. He truly just abandoned his pregnant

00:08:07.200 teenage wife. She gave birth to a daughter she named Achata after her mother, but this baby

00:08:13.080 died within the first three months of infancy because it was olden times. And that sort of

00:08:18.040 happened a lot. So I do want to also mention, just in a nice change from the last several weeks of

00:08:24.140 episodes, that Etta was a sexually liberated woman. We've had people in the last several

00:08:32.900 weeks who were accused by Robespierre of sleeping around and being like slutty, trashy bitches, 0.99

00:08:38.560 but they weren't really. But Etta was. And on this podcast, we celebrate sluttiness. 1.00

00:08:45.640 and I'm just happy to have another story like this

00:08:49.240 where there's so many lovers, y'all.

00:08:51.940 We're gonna get into a lot of lovers in this story.

00:08:54.820 And it's just, again, it's just a nice break

00:08:56.500 from kind of the grimness of the last few weeks

00:08:58.700 of this episode.

00:09:00.140 So all right, Christiane is off

00:09:02.100 in the Dutch colonies of the East Indies

00:09:03.740 and Etta was like, well,

00:09:05.400 like they didn't technically get divorced,

00:09:07.440 but she was like, it's olden times,

00:09:09.920 like no one knows paperwork, whatever.

00:09:12.980 So she just started claiming that she was a widow 1.00

00:09:14.900 legal documents referred to her as Madame Palme. Later, she would claim that Christiane had been 1.00

00:09:20.900 a baron, which is why later in her life, she's known as Baroness Palme d'Elders, or maybe

00:09:26.960 d'Elders. Anyway, we love a rebranding moment. We love the Lola Montes vibes of this all. Just 0.75

00:09:33.660 invent your personality, travel to a different country, have a nice time. And that is what she

00:09:38.520 did for her next era etta became what is described as an adventurer and she's such good social skills 0.97

00:09:45.840 what is it called like emotional intelligence she was comfortable with higher class people 0.59

00:09:51.100 probably because of her mother's family she spent time with them but she could also like get down 0.84

00:09:55.200 and like have a nice time with lower class people she charmed everybody so she's gorgeous you know

00:10:02.220 what was she gorgeous i feel like her personality made it that was what was most important she was 1.00

00:10:07.460 charming. Everybody loved her, like super popular. And five years after being abandoned 1.00

00:10:13.800 by Christiane, she chose a new lover, Jan Minix, a young lawyer whose wife had divorced him

00:10:20.220 after he had spent all of her money. So, Etta, is she good at, I was going to say,

00:10:25.480 is she good at choosing lovers? Clearly, she chose a lot of them. But you know what? It's like, 0.67

00:10:32.200 she's not choosing someone to be her husband to support her. She just wants to have a nice time.

00:10:35.640 and Jan Minix is the guy for the moment. So he was named, he was a lawyer as well. Oh, I said he

00:10:42.420 was a young lawyer. And then he got a job. He was named consul in Messina in Sicily. And so he

00:10:47.780 headed off with Etta by his side and they sort of presented her as his wife. I like the way that

00:10:52.300 she's just vibing along. She's like, I don't need a marriage certificate to call me to like to be

00:10:56.460 someone's wife. I don't need a death certificate to call myself a widow. She's just like doing the

00:11:01.920 thing. While they were en route, though, she fell ill. She got sick, and he sucks, and just left 0.98

00:11:09.620 her behind. He went on without her, but you know what? She's fine. She landed on her feet, so to 0.94

00:11:14.660 speak, as she met a new lover, whose name was Dawa Sirtama von Hrovestin, a former equerry, which is

00:11:23.600 like a high-ranking, like he oversaw the horses for a rich person, which means he was also kind

00:11:29.840 rich person to the widow of William IV, Prince of Orange. And Doa became her lover and introduced

00:11:36.720 her to even higher society, where she thrived as well. And then, again, we're missing some

00:11:43.700 paperwork here. I guess someone who she met in high society was like, would you like to be a

00:11:49.480 spy? And she said, yes, because what happened next is she moved to Paris to become a spy.

00:11:53.660 In Paris, she lived in the Palais Royale area.

00:11:57.780 And through her connections,

00:12:00.140 this is again where it's just like,

00:12:01.620 we need to fill in some real blanks here. 0.93

00:12:03.720 So she was friends with a lot of high-class people 1.00

00:12:06.720 who helped her just have an income.

00:12:10.660 I guess she's being paid an income from her spy work.

00:12:13.620 What this says is, 0.84

00:12:14.420 she secured a large income through her connections,

00:12:17.060 benefiting from profits on shares in military necessities,

00:12:19.960 such as gunpowder and saltpeter.

00:12:23.060 Salt Peter is the thing I looked up and I still don't quite understand what it is, but it's some sort of mineral that is worth money. So she was just like grifting her way along, really, like doing whatever she could using all for language skills. She's also being paid for espionage work and her diplomatic work. Like she like some of her stuff she was doing was like spy stuff. And some of the stuff she's doing is like, could you go and like mediate this problem between these two nations?

00:12:48.000 like she's just like what is how is this your life etta like how did you manifest this and how can we

00:12:54.540 all manifest this amazing life it was just spy diplomatic work and have connections who set us

00:13:00.780 up with profits on shares in i don't know she's doing amazing and i'm here for it so her house

00:13:07.780 in the palais royale she lived in luxurious quarters in her house like so many wealthier

00:13:13.340 women in the french revolution although we haven't talked about them for a while we've been talking 1.00

00:13:16.640 about less wealthy people, but she ran a salon like so many women did. So her house functioned 0.99

00:13:22.740 as a salon for young intellectuals and politically engaged people. This is pre-revolution. This is

00:13:28.300 like 20 years pre-revolution. So like there's people there talking about stuff, but it's not

00:13:33.540 like, revolution's not happening yet. So she's doing all this. And then perhaps this is another

00:13:38.720 way that maybe these are the connections who help her get shares, where she also was being a 0.51

00:13:43.800 courtesan which is so the closest thing now i can describe it too is like a sugar daddy sugar baby 1.00

00:13:50.280 relationship like she would just kind of like you know be an escort like you know be an escort like 1.00

00:13:57.960 fuck some men and they would like get her like help her pay for her house or whatever like she 1.00

00:14:02.600 had to figure it out she took a number of lovers while also being a spy for the netherlands that's 1.00

00:14:08.460 why she's there right like the netherlands had sent her to paris to be a spy and she's being a

00:14:13.440 spy kind of on these politically minded people in Paris who would come to her salon. So running a

00:14:17.700 salon is pretty good cover for being a spy. It was around this time that she started being called

00:14:23.960 the Baroness, Baroness Palem d'Alders. Interior design note. This one sort of said she furnished

00:14:32.640 her apartment in a rather coquettish style, which sounds pretty amazing to me. Her bedroom featured

00:14:39.160 four large mirrors, one at the foot of the bed. I was, I thought I was going to say four large

00:14:43.800 mirrors, one on the ceiling, but like, you know, she's reminding me of, and I think it's the word

00:14:48.740 coquettish is Gabby Windy. Like, I just feel like she's got like a Gabby Windy energy where

00:14:54.260 everyone's just kind of like, you're an unusual and interesting and beautiful person. And like,

00:14:58.960 let's just tell you all our secrets. And she's like, thanks. Don't mind if I do.

00:15:02.820 so she's in Paris being a spy for the Netherlands and while she's there the French Secret Service

00:15:10.720 noticed her and they don't know she's a spy I guess and they were like could you be a spy for

00:15:15.560 us the French Secret Service could you spy a Netherlands for us and she's like bet yeah so

00:15:21.640 she's a double agent she's a spy for France against the Netherlands and she's a spy for 0.68

00:15:27.080 the Netherlands against France. And then somehow Prussia enters the chat and she becomes a spy for

00:15:34.080 Prussia as well. So she's like a triple agent, just sharing secrets with various people, running her 0.77

00:15:40.380 salon, taking lovers. Just like, what an icon. What a vulgar history-coded individual this is. 0.99

00:15:48.740 So this is, again, like the 1770s, like 20 years before the French Revolution,

00:15:53.000 but coincidentally the same time as the American Revolution. So in 1778, when the American

00:15:59.680 Revolution is still ongoing, Etta was sent by France to The Hague to, for something just kind

00:16:06.800 of like, it's not even like spy work. It's not really espionage. It's more like market research.

00:16:11.800 They wanted her to go there to see how did people in the Netherlands feel about the American

00:16:17.300 revolution like france wanted to know if the dutch would support france like france was allied with

00:16:24.580 america during the american revolution we know that because lafayette did both and he's in the

00:16:28.940 musical hamilton so france was like with the dutch also join this kind of squad like what are the

00:16:34.340 vibes like that was her job just to kind of like two women on the street interviews and see what 0.57

00:16:38.080 the vibe was during this short mission she ran into guess who yan minix her ex the one who ditched 1.00

00:16:46.040 her when she got sick en route. It turns out he was now a spy for the British. Just spy versus

00:16:53.080 spy drama happening. So she's just like doing all this spy business, just crossing national borders.

00:17:00.220 And then we're not going to get into this in detail because this is not part of this episode.

00:17:07.180 But in the 1780s, there were, shall we say, political upheavals in the Dutch Republic.

00:17:14.660 So just to sort of explain a bit of how things were happening over there, because it's different

00:17:20.740 from other places. One of my Dutch contacts explained this to me one sec. This is from Kim.

00:17:28.220 Thank you, Kim. Dutch Tidstote Brigade member. So there's the Dutch Republic. So it was called

00:17:35.580 the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands. So there wasn't a king. What there was, was a

00:17:42.100 Stadhouder is the word, which means it's a person who's practically a king who looked at the military

00:17:47.880 and political tasks. The Stadhouder served one or more of these individual states of the seven

00:17:53.840 regions. So there wasn't a king in the Netherlands until 1815. So at this point, we're just looking

00:18:00.700 at these various Stadhouders running things over there. And kind of like in France, there were some 0.88

00:18:08.740 revolutionary people who were like this should we should not be under the control of these wealthy

00:18:13.780 elites we should do a revolution like let's do it so in 1784 there was a conspiracy a bunch of

00:18:25.720 these revolutionary type people were scheming and she single-handedly averted this conspiracy 0.52

00:18:32.500 by i guess being a spy and infiltrating them and then telling people that it was happening like

00:18:38.260 She basically saved the life of this person, who was a German person, who was the personal

00:18:43.740 counselor of the Stadthauder, and who this person was, who she saved, was none other

00:18:47.880 than Karl Wilhelm Ferdinand, Duke of Brunswick, Wolfenbutel, who you know better as the father

00:18:53.420 of Caroline of Brunswick, a military hero, Karl Wilhelm Ferdinand.

00:18:58.800 I was just like, Caroline of Brunswick's dad is in this story, and Etta saved his life?

00:19:03.940 Like the crossing over of episode to episode, it's just like, everyone knew everyone.

00:19:08.260 In 1785, the Patriots' Revolt began in the Dutch Republic.

00:19:13.340 Etta sided with the Stadthouders in this situation, which is interesting because she would later side with the revolutionaries in France.

00:19:20.540 But it's kind of like if this is your country, and she was raised like her mother was very much like on team Stadthouders.

00:19:29.120 So Etta was also, but it's also a different situation.

00:19:33.200 The Dutch situation is a lot more complicated than France.

00:19:38.640 France was like, there's the king, and there's the aristocats, and then there's kind of like everybody else.

00:19:45.080 In the Netherlands, it was more complicated, and maybe we'll do an episode about that one day. 0.83

00:19:49.100 But basically, for her whole life, Etta was always on the side of the stadhouders, who were equivalent to kings but not actually kings.

00:19:56.780 In 1787, the Dutch revolutionaries arrested Princess Wilhelmina, the wife of the Stadthauder,

00:20:03.240 and the Prussian army intervened to defeat the revolutionaries, many of whom fled to France.

00:20:08.440 The possibility of a civil war followed, which could have exposed the Netherlands to the threat

00:20:12.480 of foreign powers or threaten its autonomy. Etta Hollem Dalders stepped in to mediate on her own

00:20:20.820 initiative. She wasn't hired by Prussia. She wasn't hired by the Netherlands or France. She was just

00:20:25.560 like, hey, freelance mediator here, do you want me to sort this stuff out? And she succeeded in

00:20:30.440 stopping France from intervening in the conflict. Who is this woman? So 1788, this woman is a person

00:20:38.640 who is like a spy for three nations against each other simultaneously. 1788 in France, she was hired 0.66

00:20:46.580 by the Dutch Stadthouders to spread propaganda against the Dutch revolutionary faction.

00:20:55.760 So I don't know if this meant she was doing like a pamphlet moment, or if she was just

00:20:59.320 kind of like spreading rumors on the street, or I guess she's having her salon so she could 0.86

00:21:03.020 just tell people stuff there and they would spread the words and information. 0.85

00:21:06.400 And she's still getting lots of information to send along.

00:21:09.820 So like people in the Netherlands are sort of following French newspapers to try to

00:21:13.900 follow what was happening.

00:21:14.640 And this is 1788.

00:21:15.520 This is like the year before the storming of the Bastille where the French Revolution starts up officially. 0.99

00:21:22.680 So like shit was in the wind. 0.96

00:21:24.520 And so she was just like, hey, the Netherlands, like Stathouders, here's what's happening in France. 0.99

00:21:29.740 Like this isn't in the newspapers, but here's the word on the street.

00:21:32.120 I'm Etta and I got this information for you.

00:21:35.300 And then she's also spreading information around Paris from The Hague that The Hague wanted people in Paris to know about.

00:21:42.220 And then she does, in fact, get a pamphlet moment.

00:21:44.200 So someone, I did not write down who, and I don't know if anyone knows who, a pamphlet was published that was saying, like, the Dutch revolutionaries are great, the Stathouders suck, like, people of Paris, like, let's support the Dutch revolution.

00:21:59.820 Etta was so affected by this, or maybe someone paid her to do this, but she published a pamphlet defending the Dutch Stathouders.

00:22:07.980 Not just any pamphlet, a 36-page pamphlet.

00:22:11.560 so she's just like listen up y'all like here's what's going on she became or had right away

00:22:19.820 because she was always on the side of the stadhouders she was an opponent of the approximately

00:22:24.380 6 000 dutch exiles in france and so she defended the dutch stadhouders against their attacks

00:22:30.620 so here's kind of where she's coming from like i get like i don't i forget if i even said what

00:22:36.180 my sources were but my sources were women in world history essay by david s newhall i was

00:22:40.660 looking at her wikipedia page as well but some of the the information i was reading was saying like 0.90

00:22:45.680 it's kind of like hard to understand her politics because she supported the stadhouders in the

00:22:50.200 netherlands but then she supported the revolutionaries in france and like isn't that

00:22:53.820 inconsistent and it was not because it's two different countries in two different situations

00:22:59.260 so why she was against the dutch exiles in paris she saw them as aristocrats masquerading as

00:23:08.680 democrats in order to preserve and extend their old political privileges she wanted to preserve

00:23:13.960 the dutch monarchy or like not monarchy but like the stadhouders like that whole situation

00:23:18.740 but also introduce more democratic structures and practices into the dutch regime so it's kind of

00:23:24.620 like what the girondins wanted in france so she's like busy with all this stuff you know taking 0.74

00:23:30.460 lovers running her salon being a triple agent i'm trying to prevent wars and then the french 1.00

00:23:37.340 revolution kicks off. So shortly before the revolution started, like in the years prior,

00:23:45.400 Etta was still hosting her salon. And some of the people who attended the salon included

00:23:48.860 Jean-Paul Murat and Maximilian Robespierre. So like she was in on what was going on and what

00:23:55.060 people were thinking and what they were saying. And even though these guys are coming to her

00:23:58.780 salon, she was on the revolutionary side because she's no stranger to being a double agent and to

00:24:05.260 pretending to support somebody while you're actually supporting somebody else

00:24:09.040 also at around the same time so in 1790 uh she was also still kind of like getting up in like the

00:24:16.780 whole france versus netherlands thing like she was able to reassure and calm the french government

00:24:22.340 regarding news about the dutch government being involved with counter-revolutionaries so she was

00:24:27.560 just like she's the person in the know do you know in in the john wick movies there's sort of 0.96

00:24:34.220 this like underground place where there's all these kind of like sexy librarian looking ladies 1.00

00:24:38.080 who have lots of tattoos and glasses and they use typewriters and fax machines to sort of like 1.00

00:24:42.800 communicate with everybody in John Wick. I feel like whatever the previous version of that was

00:24:48.380 is like what Etta was all up in. Like she had all this information. So she, in terms of the French

00:24:55.180 Revolution and who she was friends with and who she was siding with, et cetera, she was closely

00:24:59.620 linked to a writer and translator named Louise Felicite de Caraglio. And she also had links to

00:25:05.460 Olympe de Gouges, whose ideas she supported. She was all in on women's rights, which was, you know,

00:25:12.220 Olympe de Gouges' whole vibe. That was her whole thing. And so Etta, she's already like a notable 1.00

00:25:20.160 person around town. Like people didn't know at the time, presumably, that she was a triple agent,

00:25:24.460 but she was just a glamorous salon person and she gained when she started being involved in

00:25:31.800 the french revolution like she was a famous person doing a thing so people are interested

00:25:35.700 um maybe the first sort of notable french revolution thing that she did was there's a

00:25:41.340 meeting of the society of the friends of truth on november 26 1790 there was somebody was giving a

00:25:47.680 speech defending the rights of women and when this person was getting tired and was like

00:25:53.100 I don't know if it was like, what's it called where you just keep talking and talking the thing

00:25:59.800 that they do? Anyway, I don't know if it was specifically one of those things, but this guy

00:26:03.880 was getting tired. And then she took over. So she interrupted this meeting to talk. And as we know

00:26:09.540 from all these episodes, like women talking in a political club was like, Herman Mollpils,

00:26:14.360 the French people would say. And so she gave a speech. I guess she came with a speech prepared

00:26:19.900 because the speech was titled 0.99

00:26:21.720 On the Injustice of the Law in Favor of Men at the Expense of Women.

00:26:26.040 And so this, I guess she published it later, maybe in a pamphlet.

00:26:29.420 So her speech did not question like this tricky tightrope 0.93

00:26:34.040 that all the feminists had to do at this time, 1.00

00:26:36.200 where it's just like, 1.00

00:26:36.800 we think that women should be able to do more stuff, 1.00

00:26:38.780 but men should still be in charge of everything. 0.97

00:26:41.840 So her speech did not question that women should be in the domestic sphere. 0.99

00:26:46.940 She didn't question the fact that women were subordinate to men. 1.00

00:26:49.320 but what she demanded was the possibility for women to intervene in political life.

00:26:54.540 And this speech went over pretty well. So she was invited to make a formal speech, 0.78

00:26:59.500 like I guess this was her just kind of impromptu speech, although it was later published. Later

00:27:04.120 she made a formal speech, which she did on December 30th. This speech was applauded by many,

00:27:10.420 opposed by some, and inspired the revolution's first recorded discussion of the rights of women. 0.89

00:27:16.760 that was her. Etta, triple Asian spy, salon runner. The war is over and both sides lost.

00:27:27.020 Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust. Now the

00:27:32.940 survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

00:27:39.520 but in the shadow dark the darkness always wins this is old school adventuring at its most cruel

00:27:47.440 your torch ticks down in real time and when that flame dies something else rises to finish the job

00:27:53.520 this is a brutal rules light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the

00:27:59.520 decisions that the characters make this is what it felt like to play rpgs in the 80s and man it is so

00:28:04.980 good to be back join the glass cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every thursday

00:28:09.860 night at 8 p.m eastern on youtube.com slash the glass cannon with the podcast version dropping

00:28:15.320 the next day see what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark

00:28:20.620 welcome to the realms of peril and glory explore the mechanically magical vistas of veil

00:28:32.360 The paranormal mysteries of liminal London

00:28:36.500 And the cyberpunk chaos of Cyborg

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00:28:44.660 From familiar shows like Oxventure and No Rolls Barred

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00:28:53.480 The world of Sonic the Hedgehog

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00:29:05.580 that probably nobody saw coming.

00:29:09.400 Follow Sonic and the intrepid Chaotic's detective agency

00:29:12.940 as they take on their biggest case yet.

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00:29:21.220 fighting for every quill they can fight.

00:29:23.800 It's one heck of a tale, which is good,

00:29:27.220 Because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives.

00:29:33.940 Well, if that's all, I can just dispose of you.

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00:30:29.800 Sexually Liberated Woman and Speech Giver. 1.00

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00:30:37.500 And we're back.

00:30:39.400 So one society even awarded her a medal for her speeches about women's rights.

00:30:44.080 And so with the success, she gave more speeches. 0.96

00:30:46.180 so she called for equal education for women she depicted the sad status of women as quote

00:30:52.040 slavery that mocked the ideals of the revolution here's a quote from her which is our life our

00:30:57.140 liberty our fortune is not ours at all she celebrated the virtues of women and she evoked

00:31:03.940 the example of the women of ancient rome so many people the french revolution is just people 0.55

00:31:09.500 cosplaying ancient rome so much of the time but women of ancient rome were pretty great 1.00

00:31:14.600 We've got Agrippina. We've got Livia. We've got Messalina. All people I appreciate. All people 1.00

00:31:21.240 can get on necklaces from Common Year Jewelry. Anyway, here's another quote from Etta.

00:31:26.080 Justice must be the first virtue of free men, and justice demands that the laws be the same

00:31:30.500 for all beings, like the air and the sun. And so she called for a revolution in our customs.

00:31:37.380 So just like for society to just like get his act together. And she continued giving speeches. So

00:31:42.440 through the winter and spring of 1791,

00:31:44.720 which was very active speaking and writing for women's cause.

00:31:48.820 But as we've seen with all the other women 0.63

00:31:51.480 who were doing stuff like this in previous episodes, 0.99

00:31:53.980 there was a lot of, the majority of revolutionary men

00:31:57.940 were not in favor of women speaking up,

00:31:59.880 especially about women's rights. 0.76

00:32:01.760 And so they did the same thing they always do, 1.00

00:32:03.720 accusate, they spread rumors about her.

00:32:06.240 And it's interesting because unlike the other women,

00:32:09.440 like Tyrone or Olympe de Gouges, 1.00

00:32:12.440 They didn't spread rumors of like, oh my God, she's a slut who loves sex, where it's like, that is true and was true. 0.98

00:32:19.380 It's like when somebody wants to insult another person, if someone's really worked up, like you, sometimes you'll just look for like, what's the most obvious difference that this person has versus everybody else in like society. 0.96

00:32:33.680 And so for her, it's the fact that she was foreign.

00:32:35.840 It's the fact that she was Dutch. 0.95

00:32:37.560 And so she was attacked for being a disloyal, dishonest foreigner. 0.98

00:32:42.060 And to be fair, she was a tribal agent working for the Dutch and the Prussians and France.

00:32:47.620 So, so many accusations came out against her. 0.98

00:32:50.080 She was just like, bitch, like, sit down, like, I'm going to publish another epic pamphlet. 0.98

00:32:54.160 This one was a 46-page collection of speechless letters and a petition entitled, 1.00

00:33:00.680 Appeal to French Women on the Regeneration of Customs and Necessity of the Influence of Women

00:33:05.040 in a Free Government. She's just like, you're not going to shut me up? Here's a 46-page pamphlet. 0.69

00:33:10.800 And she started working on establishing an all-female society in Paris. This is before

00:33:16.780 Claire and Pauline's all-female society kicked off. So there's a newspaper called The Social

00:33:21.440 Circle. And I think that's one of the clubs as well. So in The Social Circle newspaper,

00:33:26.280 She made an announcement like, hey, I'm starting an all-female society.

00:33:29.720 This is March 23rd. 0.93

00:33:31.160 I want to say 1792.

00:33:33.060 And then, yes, 1798.

00:33:37.200 Or could we 1791?

00:33:38.640 Anyway, March 23rd is the date.

00:33:40.900 She announced that she was going to do this on March 23rd.

00:33:43.800 Two days later, she started the club.

00:33:46.300 And it's called the Patriotic and Charitable Society of the Women Friends of Truth.

00:33:50.580 Her plan was to create, this is sort of like inspired by the way that the Men's Society of Truth was running.

00:33:55.760 and some other men's club where she wanted to have a network of patriotic women's societies

00:34:00.460 all across France. So the societies would, like the men's societies were set up like this,

00:34:05.400 the society would be organized and connected by a central society in Paris, but there'd be like

00:34:09.760 offshoots all over the country. Her society is focused on women's rights and membership was

00:34:14.420 only offered to women. And so, and you had to pay to join the society as well, which was kind 0.61

00:34:19.600 of problematic because a lot of people were poor, like the market ladies, for instance. 0.99

00:34:23.480 but she wanted to use the dues that people paid to join the club to advance the prospects of 0.97

00:34:28.840 underprivileged girls by teaching them skills like how she went to spy school when she was a girl and 0.94

00:34:33.560 how she got this education a lot of girls didn't get so she wanted other girls to get these

00:34:37.860 opportunities she never actually succeeded in setting up the schools or workshops to teach 0.58

00:34:42.800 these skills because it was the french revolution and not a lot of people supported this but she

00:34:49.120 was able to use the money from this club to benefit three girls. She financed apprenticeships

00:34:54.060 for them with the subscription money paid by the society members. She was of course president of

00:34:59.480 the society. She continued giving speeches and these speeches were about the social and living

00:35:04.460 conditions of women and they were heard widely and also published in newspapers and garnered

00:35:09.600 popular support from Parisian women. She was a really skilled speaker, which is interesting too

00:35:14.880 because Tyrone and Olymp were both criticized for like not being perfect at English. And she's,

00:35:20.500 but I guess she, again, people didn't attack Etta about this. She gained, so like listeners at

00:35:27.160 meetings, she went to society meetings, she gave speeches and that like won more people over to her

00:35:31.400 cause because she was a good speaker and she spoke about equal rights, better education for girls and 0.98

00:35:37.160 the right to divorce, which was a pretty major thing. Cause remember her husband left her and

00:35:41.260 she was just like, I'm a widow now, just because divorce is complicated in a lot of countries at

00:35:45.580 this point. April 1st, 1792. So she and a bunch of other people from her society went to the

00:35:52.960 National Assembly to make an address. She asked the assembly to admit women to civic, civil and

00:35:58.500 military roles. I don't know if I'm supposed to say civic or civic. Basically just like let women

00:36:03.740 have jobs. She also said she wanted the education of girls should be based on the same principle as

00:36:09.260 the education of boys, that women could become adults at the age of 21, which would mean that

00:36:14.360 they would be allowed to choose their own husbands and things like that. And she also said

00:36:17.820 that they should make divorce easier. The response of the president of the National Assembly

00:36:24.100 was, yeah, no, that's no. Two months later, Louis XVI, the king, his wife Marie Antoinette,

00:36:32.820 and the royal family attempted to escape. This is called the flight to Varane,

00:36:36.920 which they were caught they were brought back and this kind of inflamed everybody because

00:36:41.740 everything inflamed everybody so this led to a counter-revolutionary offensive including a

00:36:49.040 demonstration at the champ de mar on july 17th etta was probably there for that this demonstration

00:36:54.900 resulted in the massacre of 12 demonstrators and when this happened etta took up a collection for

00:37:01.780 the victim she was like the original gofundme just like picking up some money for people who

00:37:06.540 affected by this thing. And then because we're in 1792 and Robespierre is on the scene, that was

00:37:13.460 suspicious. So she was arrested as a suspicious foreigner. Again, the foreigner thing is what

00:37:18.980 people keep using as an excuse. The same night, another person who was arrested at the same time

00:37:23.900 with her was a Jewish banker named Ephraim, who was thought to be an agent of Prussia.

00:37:29.280 But both were released after three days for lack of evidence, thank goodness.

00:37:33.460 And, in fact, three months later, basically three months after Etta gave her speech about, like, we should make divorce more possible, the National Assembly took direct action as a result of her proposals.

00:37:43.920 They implemented that basically you could get divorced on a variety of grounds, including mutual consent, which was an important step towards women's liberation.

00:37:52.560 Why did they suddenly decide to do what she was asking?

00:37:56.540 Could it be because her latest lover, Claude Basir, was a rising young deputy in the National

00:38:03.560 Assembly?

00:38:04.320 So he had a seat on the Committee of General Security.

00:38:07.380 So maybe she was just kind of like convincing him to agree with her, and then he convinced

00:38:12.000 the other ones.

00:38:12.740 So like she's working every angle. 0.93

00:38:14.120 She's working all the angles. 0.54

00:38:15.620 So her society of like her women's society continued on until late 1792.

00:38:21.300 too. And as it was going, it's not just like she didn't publish the 46-page pamphlet and everyone's

00:38:26.580 like, oh, she's cool, actually. Like she got this lover in a highly placed position, but that didn't

00:38:30.840 make Robespierre people stop being suspicious of her. And not for the reasons they should have

00:38:36.300 been suspicious of her, like that she was a spy, but just because she was a woman speaking out. 1.00

00:38:40.720 So like she kept being trashed in the media, like so many strong women are. And for being a foreigner, 0.98

00:38:49.200 for being kind of shifty for being kind of shady for like probably being a spy and by this point 0.99

00:38:54.040 the national assembly maybe they knew that she was a spy because they've been like paying her

00:38:57.220 to be a spy so her reputation tainted her and the association like her society as well just 0.99

00:39:03.420 because it was her society and also everybody was still poor still angry nobody had any money

00:39:11.900 and so her society ended up just kind of ending like not enough people joined it partially because

00:39:18.700 he chose uh as the patron of society this aristocrat so a lot of people didn't want to

00:39:23.900 be associated with that but then also people didn't have money to join to pay the society

00:39:27.480 and also like women being politically involved was like a really controversial thing to do

00:39:31.480 so her society tragically ends this is all the end of 1792 january like we're ending 1792 now

00:39:40.980 we're beginning 1793 january 21st the execution of louis the 60th which damaged relations between

00:39:48.360 France and the Netherlands, which damaged her income stream because she was being paid by both

00:39:56.520 of those governments. In fact, France declared war on the Dutch and the British on February 1st.

00:40:02.540 And so this war basically disintegrated her job as an intermediary, as a spy. There wasn't a role

00:40:09.960 for her in this situation. It was a war. They didn't need her kind of spies at this point,

00:40:15.360 like women on the street spies. So her spy boss in the Netherlands complained that her information

00:40:23.700 was of little value. And it's like, yeah, she wasn't on the front lines of the war. She couldn't

00:40:27.700 get them that information that they wanted. And then in fact, she was fired from being a spy on

00:40:33.780 October 5th, 1793. And guess what? We've seen this so many times on this podcast with women

00:40:39.040 and other people who are serving their countries and then they stop serving their countries and

00:40:44.300 then they don't get paid. So she hadn't been paid for several months, even though she had been

00:40:50.700 still technically working for them. And she kept asking them, like, where is my salary, please?

00:40:56.140 They gave her a paltry 20 ducats, which I don't know what that is, but it says it's paltry. So

00:40:59.980 it's not very much. So like she was not paid for her last year of spy work. And it's like,

00:41:05.740 um, the French revolution is happening. It'd be great to have some money. Thank you.

00:41:10.000 so the whole dutch thing fell apart and like she's still being slandered in the press in

00:41:17.260 france but she was still technically a spy for the french government somehow and she was

00:41:22.100 subsequently sent on diplomatic mission to holland and she decided to just stay there because things

00:41:28.580 were not going great for her in france and she just kind of stayed there and i guess just being

00:41:32.780 a spy like in the netherlands which was again in the process of its own revolutionary type

00:41:39.580 situations. So two years pass and she's just in the Netherlands. And then the French revolutionary

00:41:46.680 armies invade. So what would this be? 1795. At this point, the Batavsha Republik, a new

00:41:58.500 kind of Netherlands Republic was proclaimed. And which is kind of like, I think, again,

00:42:04.900 I was researching the French side of things, not so much the Netherlands sides of things,

00:42:08.520 except for the pronunciation but basically i think the revolutionary type people kind of took

00:42:15.000 over at this point and she fell under suspicion because she'd been in the stadhouders side this

00:42:19.960 whole time and also because she was known to be a spy jan munix her ex shows up in the story again

00:42:27.100 both of them came to the attention of the dutch authorities and jan was sentenced to be banished

00:42:34.060 from the Netherlands or from the Batavsha Republik.

00:42:38.060 Edda was put under arrest.

00:42:40.100 She was sent to the fortress of Vorden.

00:42:43.060 And someone else who was in the same fortress prison

00:42:45.700 was her old spymaster boss who had fired her.

00:42:48.160 And he was in comfortable political confinement,

00:42:51.340 like in a nice room with a bed.

00:42:52.780 But she was put among the common criminals,

00:42:55.400 assigned a one-room cell,

00:42:56.700 and allowed only one hour's daily exercise,

00:42:59.960 which sucks for anybody.

00:43:01.440 and I think for her as a person

00:43:04.100 who was just like so active

00:43:06.460 like that would have been 0.91

00:43:07.540 really shitty

00:43:08.580 and she couldn't talk her way out of it 0.97

00:43:10.120 after having been able to talk her way

00:43:11.800 out of so many sticky situations

00:43:13.340 for so many years

00:43:14.620 and there she stayed for three years

00:43:17.320 three years later

00:43:19.000 she was released on December 20th, 1798 0.76

00:43:21.420 under 0.92

00:43:21.920 along with a bunch of other prisoners

00:43:23.660 there was a general amnesty

00:43:24.840 for political prisoners

00:43:25.880 and she just went to live with a friend

00:43:28.480 she's just like

00:43:29.460 what's my next move?

00:43:31.440 what am I going to do? If she considered going back to France, she couldn't really because in

00:43:36.400 1798, we haven't even talked about what France is doing in 1798, but she had been pronounced an

00:43:41.580 emigre. And so emigre was the word that they called French people who left France because

00:43:49.560 they didn't support the revolution. People who fled to Italy or England or places. And when

00:43:55.000 you're an emigre, then all of her property and money would be confiscated. So if she went back 1.00

00:44:00.300 to France, she wouldn't have anything. So they had confiscated all of her papers and property.

00:44:05.980 They sold all but her political correspondence. I guess they kept the political correspondence

00:44:09.400 for just like spy reasons. So she had no money and she had nowhere to go. And she was sick.

00:44:17.000 I don't know if she became sick when she was in jail and then it got worse or if she became ill

00:44:23.720 after she got out of jail. But what killed her, because that's what's about to happen,

00:44:28.540 she had a breast infection so i don't know if that means like breast cancer or if that means

00:44:35.960 like do they mean breast like chest like a lung infection or like pleurisy or i'm not sure she

00:44:42.520 died of a breast infection march 28 1799 aged 55 she was buried the next day in an unmarked grave

00:44:51.320 in the cemetery in Rixwick, I forgot to ask how to pronounce this, a suburb of The Hague.

00:45:00.120 And that is a saga of Edda, Lubina, Johanna, Dorista, Alders, Pallum, which is, I had never

00:45:08.520 heard of her until I started reading up about other women of the French Revolution. And her

00:45:13.300 name just kind of came up as like, oh, she was also there. And I'm like, wait, who is this? Wait,

00:45:16.620 she's a spy like it's just what a fascinating story and to the netherlands listeners who helped

00:45:23.160 me with this and who i now know are out there like what a cool heroine you have eight a few

00:45:29.320 years ago when i was doing um the international season of the podcast i made a a goal i stated

00:45:36.580 my goal that i wanted to you know at some point do a story about somebody from each country where

00:45:44.480 there is a listener from. And that is still a goal that I have, like a long-term goal. And so

00:45:49.120 I'm happy to have been able to do this Netherlands-based story and to learn a bit about how

00:45:54.700 to pronounce Kroningen. Did I say that right? I don't know. So it's time to score Etta in the

00:46:01.300 four categories, if you've never heard this podcast before. We have four categories where

00:46:05.260 we score the women at the very end of it. And then we see where that lands them, who they're 1.00

00:46:09.720 next to you on the list of the Fredigan Memorial Scandaliciousness Scale. So the first category

00:46:14.980 is Scandaliciousness, which is how shocked and how scandalized were the people in this person's

00:46:23.400 time and place. Because one person's behavior might be really shocking in one context, but

00:46:27.180 maybe not in another one. So Etta, like she was educated more than girls usually were in that time,

00:46:35.020 girls of her class her mother was seen as scandalous for running this pawn shop with a

00:46:40.460 jewish person and then she she's being proposed to by married men she got married and then he left

00:46:48.800 her because she kept sleeping around like i feel like she and then she became gone it was like

00:46:54.440 a spy a triple agent like i think for women of this time and place this and again i don't know

00:47:02.340 a lot about the netherlands but from what i know about other western european countries at this

00:47:07.420 time like that behavior is not what was expected or anticipated of most women like i think 0.90

00:47:11.660 scandalousness is going to be a pretty high score for her although it's interesting that she's doing 0.99

00:47:17.820 all this stuff like taking the lovers being the spy everything and then the only thing that was 0.97

00:47:22.340 ever really used against her in the press was like she's foreign so it's like she's scandalous

00:47:27.740 but do people not know that she was? Or could they not mention these things because were her

00:47:32.980 lovers too important of people? I don't know. I'm going to give her, because it's tricky. She did

00:47:39.320 stuff that to me is just scandalous and awesome, but that didn't really bring her down. That 0.99

00:47:45.200 didn't really ruin her. I'm going to say a seven for scandalousness. I think just because people 0.97

00:47:49.700 in the time seemed kind of okay with it, bananasly, considering how sexist France was at this time.

00:47:57.740 scheminess though this is going to be a high score because she was effectively she was a spy 0.98

00:48:04.920 and then she got hired on to be a spy against the people she's spying for and then a third party

00:48:08.660 also caught her to be a spy the way that she mediated and stopped wars like she saved carolina

00:48:15.100 brunswick's dad's life like she was clearly on the ball like she's coming with good plans she 0.94

00:48:19.580 was executing those plans the fact that we know so little about her shows what a good spy she was 1.00

00:48:25.060 I'm going to give her 10 out of 10 for scheminess because for all the above, she killed it. She killed it literally. I don't know if she was also an assassin. It's kind of like Killing Eve, but oldie times. And that would be a good TV show or movie. Someone should do that. 0.99

00:48:42.720 it's tricky to do the significance because so much of what she did was in the shadows like it's

00:48:50.560 significant that she stopped at least two invasions or wars that she saved the life of

00:48:57.800 this war hero carolina brunswick's father but so much of what she did was in the shadows it's hard

00:49:02.780 to say like what did she do although in terms of significance her speech was the first time the

00:49:07.500 women's rights were brought up like in one of these assemblies she started the first women's

00:49:12.420 club in the french revolution i'm gonna say i'm gonna give her like a six for significance like

00:49:18.740 these are certainly significant things but if we're thinking on a scale of like zero to i don't

00:49:24.240 know who's like harriet tubman like she's not you know like harriet tubman would obviously be like

00:49:28.840 a 10 significance like all the stuff that she did and the way that she's remembered

00:49:32.580 Etta, I'm going to say like a six, like a respect, respectable score. 0.91

00:49:36.720 The sexism bonus is interesting as well, because she was married, she was abandoned, 1.00

00:49:44.900 she rebranded herself as a widow, but like, I don't know, like how much did sexism hold her

00:49:50.420 back? That's what this category is for. Like we give more points to a woman when she could have 1.00

00:49:54.980 done more, if not for the patriarchy, if not for sexism. And I think Etta kind of stuff got in her 1.00

00:50:00.880 way, but it wasn't really sexism. Even when she was being criticized in the press, it wasn't for 0.97

00:50:05.980 being a woman. If a man had been in town doing the same thing from the Netherlands, being a triple 0.99

00:50:10.820 agent, he probably would have been written about the same way. And then when she and Jan Minix 0.73

00:50:15.000 were both arrested, he was banished and she was sent to jail. So maybe he's being banished better

00:50:20.760 than being sent to jail? Maybe, I guess, because you're not in jail. So he's treated a bit better.

00:50:24.860 I feel like she'll get

00:50:27.200 I think like a standard classic 0.99

00:50:29.580 maybe a 5 for sexism

00:50:32.240 like 1.00

00:50:33.080 I'm going to give her a 6 for sexism 1.00

00:50:35.960 I think about like she had the child and then the child died 1.00

00:50:38.240 and the way that she was

00:50:40.240 treated differently from Jan Minix when both of them

00:50:42.040 were being arrested for both being spies

00:50:43.780 so let's see what this is

00:50:45.180 I believe

00:50:47.000 let me just double check

00:50:48.560 yeah this is a

00:50:51.380 a 29 which is

00:50:53.680 really

00:50:54.860 With the exception of Charlotte Corday, the score that everybody is getting in this,

00:50:59.780 Olympe de Gouges got 29.5. But I just kind of like that all the women of the, 0.83

00:51:04.720 and if you're thinking like, oh, and you're planning this ahead of time, 0.99

00:51:07.000 that assumes that I can do math in my head, which I can't.

00:51:11.800 So Etta, Palem, Dalders has a score of 29. The other women of the French Revolution, 0.94

00:51:17.180 Theroyne de Maricourt has a 29. Claire Lacombe and Pauline Leon have a joint 29. Olympe de Gouges,

00:51:21.860 29.5 so they're all kind of here at the same level they're all hanging out in the same sort

00:51:26.800 of place which is sort of like often it's like high sometimes it's high significance sometimes

00:51:31.840 it's high scandal i don't know it's it's interesting the way that this is turning into

00:51:36.500 sort of like a cool little cul-de-sac where all the french revolution ladies are all

00:51:39.880 hanging out together next week on the podcast we're going to be switching sides never let it

00:51:47.040 be said that vocal history doesn't show multiple sides of a situation because we're going to be

00:51:54.920 looking at a Girondin. Well, I guess, I guess Charlotte Corday was a Girondin, but we're going

00:52:00.020 to be looking at another salon running woman during the French revolution on the other side.

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00:57:32.360 next week we're going to be looking at again a girondin another woman of the french revolution

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Vulgar History - May 14, 2025

French Revolution： Radicals (part 5)： The Triple Agent

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