Vulgar History - Movie Discussion： Conclave (2024)

00:00:00.000 Chew on this bold question from Dentine Gum.

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00:00:14.880 hello everyone and welcome to a very special episode of the after show which is like it's

00:00:30.600 not after a show but i you know it's not it's not vulgar peace theater it's not vulgar peace theater

00:00:35.500 it's not a costume drama lan is not here but allison epstein and i are both would you say

00:00:41.380 feral about this film yes i think we both caused minor scenes in actual cinemas a couple days apart

00:00:49.720 for this movie and so we've decided i don't care what part of your podcast this is we need to come

00:00:54.340 on and talk about it no i was like we we need to do this and i okay first of all the movie that

00:01:01.480 we're talking about is conclave the 2024 pope-based thriller and if you heard those words and didn't

00:01:08.980 tell me, Alison Epstein, that this movie was coming out, we're not friends because this is

00:01:14.240 me. This is my genre of film. I need to know your journey of hearing about this movie and

00:01:21.600 then attending the movie. It was a very brief journey. I subscribed to another sub stack,

00:01:27.400 which is Hello Poppy by J.P. Brammer, who writes gay pop culture, essentially. And he sent out a

00:01:33.760 newsletter that said, I'm reviewing the new papal thriller. And the first line of his newsletter

00:01:38.560 said, this movie has a cardinal who vapes in it. So of course I liked it. And I said, I'm going to

00:01:44.940 see this movie. And I told Anne, I'm going to see this movie. And Anne said, I would also like to

00:01:49.880 see this movie. I think I said, wouldst that we were in the same city? Because I had a similar

00:01:55.100 journey. I think I saw it from another sub stack, Kristen Lopez, who is a friend of the podcast.

00:02:02.300 And also she writes under the film Maven. And I've found that when she loves a movie, even if I don't

00:02:08.060 know about it i'm gonna love it too like her her viewpoint is very similar to mine and i think it

00:02:13.080 was her and maybe someone else who described this it's like it's like 12 angry men but the conclave

00:02:17.440 and i was like well i'm in 12 angry popes it's so good i'm in i'm in um and i was really excited

00:02:25.780 about it and then you saw it first yes and i was so worried that you wouldn't like it but do you

00:02:33.740 remember how you described it to me? If not, I can bring up that message you sent me.

00:02:38.160 I don't. So please remind me what I said. I said a lot of things to a lot of people that night.

00:02:42.240 You said something like the first part of the movie is just like bitchy men in robes being 0.99

00:02:46.820 bitches, which is your genre. And then the final part of it, it suddenly pivots into suddenly a 0.99

00:02:52.320 completely different movie, which is my genre. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like,

00:02:58.460 then I was even more excited about it because I knew that you liked it.

00:03:00.900 there was a specific point two-thirds of the way through and we'll get to it where i gasped 0.56

00:03:05.640 aloud i did the gay gasp in the theater and then i said oh and it's gonna like this part

00:03:10.720 yeah there was um i just want to describe to you my experience in seeing the movie so

00:03:16.320 i went to see it the weekend that wicked opened but and i was like is it gonna be in the theater

00:03:23.080 even because there's like 7 000 screens of wicked and gladiator too but it was in the smallest of

00:03:28.360 the theaters which i think is good for a cozy conclave painful thriller sure um and i was wearing

00:03:35.180 like a hoodie with a front kangaroo pocket which is important so you know every time i say i started

00:03:40.400 applauding please know that my hands were in that pocket muffling the sound it's so good to know

00:03:46.680 so i was i was i was squirming i was applauding i was like shaking my fist and it was so it was so

00:03:56.120 fun yeah it was i think at one point i i whispered to my companion like this is the greatest movie

00:04:01.620 i've ever seen and like i whispered during the movie so yeah i walked out of it and i said

00:04:06.760 out loud this is the best movie of all time it's so good it was so good it was yeah um okay so i

00:04:16.880 do want to say because listeners to um vulgar peace theater will know intimately that i don't

00:04:22.200 usually watch let alone enjoy movies that are primarily about men all dressed the same which

00:04:28.860 is why I was worried about this movie for yeah yeah but I think we'll get into it but there's

00:04:33.700 a number of tropes that supersede that for me but also afterwards when I was talking with the movie

00:04:39.340 with my companion I was saying like it was all men dressed the same but they all look very different

00:04:44.400 like facially I never confused anyone with anyone they were all either it's like oh that's famous 0.96

00:04:50.480 actor john lithgow or or oh that's the mexican guy like everyone looked very very very very 0.90

00:04:58.240 different which i appreciate because they were wearing the same outfit for the whole movie

00:05:02.200 they all had distinguishing haircuts and glasses and vibes some of them even had distinguishing

00:05:08.880 crucifixes which i thought was neat so i like yeah i like i like that they all had distinguishing

00:05:13.780 like different glasses um but also because the average age of the cast is i think 70

00:05:18.260 like yeah it's like these are people who need glasses like why would the characters not have

00:05:22.980 glasses of course they're cardinals none of them can see no they're all they're all old because

00:05:28.060 like in real life cardinals are old when they choose a pope the pope is so old um so this is

00:05:35.340 a movie about the conclave if you don't know what that is listeners that's when the pope dies and

00:05:40.500 then all the cardinals come together sequestered and they have to vote on who's going to be the

00:05:45.000 new pope and it has to be like a majority and to my delight and i'm sure you know about this

00:05:50.820 in real life they did the same thing the movie is in real life so they take a vote and if the

00:05:55.960 vote is inconclusive like you don't know then they send up gray smoke yes and then people in

00:06:02.480 the square are like in like vatican like in rome are like like boo you didn't choose a pope and

00:06:07.700 then the next day the gray smoke i was like boo no pope and then when they choose a pope then

00:06:12.060 it's white smoke and everyone's like yay pope i remember this happening when pope francis was

00:06:18.140 elected pope i was in college and it was like the first time a pope had ever resigned and as me a

00:06:23.780 lover of papal drama this was the best two weeks of my life yeah i remember sitting there watching

00:06:28.420 like is what's the smoke gonna be and i felt like a renaissance peasant it was so fun i love the

00:06:32.880 smoke i love i love that i love the vibes of like mob like the mob just in the square just waiting

00:06:38.000 for the smoke like say what you will about the catholic church and this movie will say what it

00:06:42.620 will about the catholic church but like it just got drama and i do appreciate that oh my god the

00:06:48.200 smoke thing i love it i love it um i was trying to think of like again i went there i have to

00:06:52.820 emphasize like the day the wicked open and also gladiator 2 and you know what there was not

00:06:57.820 like conclave based popcorn bowls which is such a shame child's packs shaped like the

00:07:05.800 pope-mobile would be my suggestion little pope-mobiles you could buy you could put popcorn

00:07:11.020 in an upside down pope's hat it's right there come on and then you could wear the pope's hat

00:07:14.680 what are they thinking why are we not in charge i don't know i saw um one of the tits of brigade

00:07:23.140 saw gladiator 2 in a theater where they handed out giant oversized thumbs up thumbs down hands

00:07:28.700 and i was like that's great but also where's my oversized pope hat to wear to this movie

00:07:35.300 screening and then i was thinking like is there a way that we could use the white smoke the gray

00:07:39.300 smoke to like name cocktails you know like yes i love this or do one of those like you know science

00:07:47.840 experiment type cocktails where like a haze comes off you lift up the thing and that yes and it's

00:07:53.080 like is there a pope chosen or not you don't know till you get your drink and then it turns out that

00:07:57.520 you're the pope the best yes it's oh my god so it's an amazing movie what i have in front of me

00:08:02.940 i was telling all of a sudden is the wikipedia summary but we're gonna we're gonna diverge from

00:08:07.600 it a lot but this is just to remind me what order things happen in because like again this is not

00:08:11.920 photography theater for photography theater we watch streaming movies i take lengthy notes myself

00:08:16.120 but this we just saw them incredible if you would come up in the movie theater for a second time

00:08:22.480 with like a little tiny flashlight in your notes just taking complete notes yeah so this is a 2024

00:08:28.580 mystery thriller film directed by edward burger and i was like what else has he done and can i

00:08:34.380 watch those things so he's the one who did the recent all quiet on the western front movie he's

00:08:38.000 a german person okay and i think that's notable because the movie it's very international the

00:08:46.140 cast um like each of the cardinals is from a country and generally speaking the actors are

00:08:52.020 from those countries too so it's like it's not like all it's not 12 angry men where it's like

00:08:56.760 12 angry, famous Hollywood British actors.

00:08:59.680 It's like three famous actors

00:09:01.780 and a bunch of people

00:09:02.640 who are famous in other countries.

00:09:04.360 But I think that the fact

00:09:05.340 that he was a German director,

00:09:06.820 he was bringing a different sensibility

00:09:08.140 than like a Hollywood

00:09:08.980 or a British director might have done.

00:09:11.800 And he did a fantastic job.

00:09:13.300 It's based on a book I've not read,

00:09:14.660 Conclave by Robert Harris.

00:09:16.780 I will say at my public library,

00:09:18.300 I was like,

00:09:18.740 gotta make sure we have enough copies

00:09:19.840 of Conclave the book

00:09:20.840 because this is gonna go bananas, 1.00

00:09:24.020 I'm sure with the elderly library crowd

00:09:26.220 and it has i'm so happy it has yeah but you know what there's not large print is out of print

00:09:32.600 because the book is too old i'm like we need large print conclave for the elderly with sight

00:09:36.440 problems this is one of those books that if it's not in large print why even print this book

00:09:41.140 like it's a big grandpa seniors home for grandpas on vacation and me yeah yeah and me and also my

00:09:51.040 who is a catholic webman who likes mysteries yes okay so it's this fantastic movie we'll explain

00:09:58.420 who all the characters are i mean we're going to call them by their actor names almost entirely

00:10:01.460 yeah i have no idea what anybody's name is so we always talk about the costume design and in this

00:10:06.380 i'm like good job comma the costumes are just what cardinals wear yes no distracting costumes

00:10:13.860 it is what you expect to see yeah like i don't think there was a lot of room for the cost i just

00:10:19.060 want to look them up because we always showed her the costumer but i think they were just like

00:10:22.360 dear the vatican can we rent some of your actual outfits great thanks um this is what and i will 0.88

00:10:30.060 say like to their credit there's some pretty fucking great outfits in the catholic church 0.81

00:10:34.640 they love a hat they love a cape it's wonderful the outfits are top tier they are and as they are 0.89

00:10:43.660 in the catholic church um let me just see but you know they had to decide i'm sure the costume

00:10:48.940 lily this is telling usually when we do a vulgar peace theater there's like a costume team there's

00:10:55.220 numerous names here it's just one person it's like yeah because she just rented the vatican

00:10:58.980 so she's from munich her name is lissy crystal um oh you know what she did costumes for

00:11:06.400 anonymous the movie about what if shakespeare wasn't shakespeare

00:11:10.320 oh those costumes were great so i feel like that's all i'll say about that movie she got

00:11:17.520 to flex her you know bona fides there like and then she also did costumes for another movie that

00:11:22.660 i think everyone was wearing the same thing all quiet on the western front so do you need her to

00:11:27.200 do a caution run where she can do it you know what she did costumes for 2016's independence day

00:11:33.200 colon resurgence she's got the goods lissy crystal good job i feel like this was like a

00:11:40.900 easy job for you she would have just had to research what do they wear to conclave

00:11:44.760 what do they wear to mask what hat can this guy wear this hat it's a different hat when a certain

00:11:51.860 character enters what cloak will he be swirling dramatically but we'll get to that yeah we will

00:11:57.540 oh gosh it was just like oh what a good movie okay so the movie starts with the pope has died

00:12:05.460 and now i want to sidebar immediately and say he looks a thousand years old the dead pope this is 0.87

00:12:13.060 the oldest fucking pope anybody has ever seen and there's a there's a part where a character says i 0.95

00:12:18.100 thought he'd outlive us all and i was like did you that speaks not well of your vision your 0.99

00:12:26.340 understanding why everyone was wearing their glasses because the pope was made of graham

00:12:32.040 crackers and dust you know who said that was ray fines and he did he only put on glasses to read

00:12:36.260 because he was the main character so maybe anyway when he was like i thought he'd live us all i'm

00:12:40.160 like sir he is conservatively 110 years old he thought you know as every pope ever has always

00:12:48.900 bit none of the candidates this time are that old though they're all true yeah okay so the pope has

00:12:56.420 died and so like a bunch of cardinals i don't know like the head cardinals rave finds enters the

00:13:02.860 movie now it took me a while to get used to this but he's a good guy in this movie it's very

00:13:08.240 disconcerting to see him play a good guy i kept waiting for him to kill yeah yeah i kept waiting 0.98

00:13:13.440 like people kept being like oh will you pray with me and i'm like he's gonna be like fuck you he's 0.98

00:13:17.820 like of course I'm like oh because he's oh yeah that's right he's an actor he's a good guy so 0.99

00:13:23.660 Ralph Fiennes Colin good guy he shows up he's like the dean I don't know what that means but

00:13:29.180 it means that he's the manager of the eventual conclave he's the event planner of the Vatican

00:13:33.880 I think which I love for him he knows how to throw a party he knows how to make sure all the doors

00:13:39.000 are locked it's a real David business David Rizzio energy so he is one of the cardinals so they go

00:13:46.360 like the Pope was like literally lying dead in his like bed in his little dorm room. And so they

00:13:51.280 come to see the dead Pope and it's Ralph Fiennes is there. And then we meet, I think John Lithgow

00:13:57.840 is there. And I think Stanley Tucci also there. Yes. Those are the people who are there. And

00:14:03.840 they're just kind of like, Oh my God, the Pope is dead. And now this is like, now the comparison I

00:14:09.480 always make to a movie that does this really well is Jurassic Park, where the beginning of Jurassic

00:14:13.960 park they're like here's the gates here's how the fences work here's how this works so then

00:14:18.180 partway through when when electricity goes out you know everything how it's going to go wrong

00:14:22.020 because they've explained it to you so here they show the pope and here's they take off the ring

00:14:26.820 and they seal the door with a wax seal and like yeah they do and i didn't think at that time that

00:14:34.220 they were jurassic parking us but they were because later we returned to that room but first

00:14:38.960 i'm just like wow look at all these things look at all these things they have to do they have to

00:14:41.880 like get the ring off the dead pope's finger and then like chisel the thing off in a complicated

00:14:47.000 metal ring popping off tool um yeah so the pope is dead this is the part where stanley tucci is

00:14:56.460 lurking outside of the office saying do you think the pope will mind if i take his chess set which

00:15:00.600 is my favorite little moment of this movie i forgot about that yes because he's like the pope

00:15:05.100 and i used to play chess on this chess set and ray fines is like i'm sure that's cool i'm sure

00:15:09.160 i'm sure if he wouldn't mind if you could take it and i'm like i bet you the vatican minds if 0.99

00:15:13.120 you just start stealing shit from the pope's office stanley tucci but what the fuck do i know 0.98

00:15:17.660 maybe yeah i don't know so so we see that like the pope is dead and we we glean that stanley 0.99

00:15:23.780 tucci was like pals he and the pope were cool um ray fines and the pope they were like friendly

00:15:30.520 um and we slowly like i didn't you clearly understood more about conclave happenings but

00:15:38.100 i learned a lot the movie explained it all really well which is basically the next thing that happens

00:15:41.400 effectively is like we're having a conflict which means all the cardinals from all around the world

00:15:46.240 are all coming here for this meeting and at first they're like oh i hope so-and-so doesn't come 0.97

00:15:52.620 like oh maybe he won't come and then this bitch comes up in a cloak this is what's his name um 0.97

00:15:59.740 the italian one i i refer to him as dirtbag cardinal i don't know what the actor's name 0.97

00:16:04.660 was but he deserves an oscar tedesco is his yes oh my god the character's name incredible

00:16:11.620 explain tedesco's entrance in the lake outdoor courtyard every other cardinal who's shown up

00:16:18.700 in this entry of the cardinal sequence is like hello i'm so sorry to hear about the death of

00:16:23.980 the pope i'm so sorry and then tedesco comes up his cloak is like 14 times as large as everybody

00:16:29.560 else's cloak and he's just

00:16:30.920 spiraling down the hallway of the

00:16:33.320 Vatican and if I remember correctly he makes

00:16:35.480 like a dirty joke and then smacks

00:16:37.400 somebody for trying to take his suitcase

00:16:39.240 yeah one of his like

00:16:41.360 he comes in like everyone else just comes in like hi

00:16:43.320 I'm so and so but Tedesco comes in with his

00:16:45.360 cloak and then he has

00:16:47.320 like two sort of like little minions

00:16:49.180 next to him and one of the minions is like do you want to take your suitcase

00:16:51.360 and the guy like hits the guy with the

00:16:53.320 suitcase and I'm

00:16:55.420 like oh this guy

00:16:56.660 is mean 1.00

00:16:58.740 oh shitty cardinal what a delight to have a dirtbag cardinal in a movie it's all i ever asked for 0.99

00:17:05.300 he's great and rave finds it's like oh hey hey jadesco jadesco's like everyone sucks blah blah 0.99

00:17:10.640 i'm gonna be the pope i'm a fascist and i'm italian which is important for pope reasons 0.60

00:17:17.060 and i vape is his characterization he vapes threateningly he pulls out a vape when he wants

00:17:25.840 to create an aura of malaise and god bless whoever's idea that was oh my god the guy let

00:17:34.940 me just see the guy who plays tedesco because he was great afterwards i was like who are all

00:17:38.560 these people i'm so intrigued so the actor is sergio castellito and he is an italian film

00:17:45.600 director actor and screenwriter um i'm just seeing if he's done any famous oh let's see he was in

00:17:53.120 he was the antagonist in the film the chronicles of narnia prince caspian what do you know how

00:17:59.680 many times i've seen the chronicles of narnia prince caspian he plays king miraz wow wild

00:18:06.300 this is bringing me back to high school so he's got some like i feel like villain energy i feel 0.55

00:18:12.340 like based on these two roles i think this is who you get to display a dirtbag oh my gosh he

00:18:19.180 began his theatrical career in italian public theater in measure for measure 0.92

00:18:23.020 then he was in of course he did yeah the shakespeare play with the worst possible italian

00:18:28.960 man in it yeah that's zero percent surprising he's fantastic i want to say like a shared

00:18:36.580 supporting actor oscar for all of the men in this movie yes yeah a sentence ann has never said

00:18:43.720 before and will never say again no but this is great but again like every man in this movie is

00:18:48.660 like at least 70 years old and also i do want to shout out the use of extreme close-ups of their

00:18:54.560 faces a lot and the fact that i don't think any of them are wearing any makeup you see age spots

00:18:59.400 you see wrinkles you see sagging skin and i was like this is refreshing it's great yeah yeah this

00:19:04.820 is also just like a beautifully shot movie like all of the scenes they do from like 20 meters above

00:19:12.600 the ground watching all of the cardinals move around like yeah little game pieces on a chess

00:19:17.240 board it's so good oh it's a beautiful looking movie yeah and they i also was thinking like the

00:19:22.980 fact that all the actors like they're just wearing ropes they're literally wearing like long dresses

00:19:26.460 they must be so comfy that's what i thought yeah yeah these actors like they don't have to like

00:19:31.200 watch their diet or like whatever it's just like hey here's your robe for the day like great like 0.99

00:19:35.980 i'm just gonna hang out in my robe no makeup around wear a little hat be a little bitch this 0.99

00:19:41.420 is my dream it's beautiful it's beautiful okay so the cardinal so this is where i like we're coming 0.96

00:19:50.500 up to the first time i think i applauded this is like 20 minutes into the movie but what i want to

00:19:56.380 say is just so you understand so everyone understands like one like my favorite trope

00:20:00.920 is the a bunch of people are trapped somewhere like they're people are in a hotel and then

00:20:08.460 there's a snowstorm and the phone line cuts out at a business retreat you know or like people

00:20:13.100 happen at the agatha christie estate like a couple years ago yes people are trapped there i was like

00:20:18.820 oh why am i not there so i love i love like as soon as any book if any book is like this is like

00:20:25.880 and then there were none and i'm like i don't need to read the rest of that sentence i'm gonna read

00:20:29.320 this book because it's about people trapped somewhere and they start being killed now this

00:20:33.120 movie people don't start being killed but they're being killed they do start becoming not pope so

00:20:39.140 which is for them is like dying yeah yeah so as soon as they were like okay we're gonna like

00:20:44.860 close everybody off in the um conclave like nobody you can't interact with the outside world i was

00:20:51.300 like oh no it's time to sequester the college of cardinals let's go and then even they're like we

00:20:59.720 We don't want people to be, like, sending drones out to, like, look in the windows so

00:21:03.440 the windows are all covered.

00:21:05.100 Like, they're, like, could not be more sequestered.

00:21:07.500 It's, there's a long sequence of, like, the dramatic, like, hurricane shutters coming down,

00:21:13.100 shutting everybody in the Vatican.

00:21:14.580 And I'm just imagining you just getting more and more excited with every window that closes.

00:21:18.440 Exactly.

00:21:19.140 Exactly.

00:21:19.640 So the only places that they're allowed to go are, like, the room where they talk, where

00:21:22.680 they do their voting.

00:21:23.700 And then they, like, go on a little, like, shuttle bus back to their, sort of, like,

00:21:27.220 dormitory.

00:21:27.780 I love the shuttle bus.

00:21:28.760 yes it looks like everybody on like a high school band trip and i love it i don't know if this is

00:21:34.660 just an italian thing no this is like a real um the juxtaposition of these beautiful buildings

00:21:41.140 and like i did read they did they did not have permission to film in the vatican surprisingly

00:21:46.120 but they did film in rome so these like beautiful architectural like renaissance buildings and then

00:21:52.320 they go back to their dorm and it's like oh i'm just gonna make some kerrig coffee now like i'm

00:21:56.700 just gonna use this photocopier like everything is so mundane and the desktop computers just

00:22:03.240 fantastic it's fabulous okay okay so so two crucial things happen before they're sequestered 0.93

00:22:10.760 and ray finds the manager of the conch life is like what the fuck um because he can't investigate

00:22:15.660 these things we'll see how he does the first thing is somebody is like uh john lithgow who 0.74

00:22:21.120 was also cardinal they're like uh he had a meeting with the pope right before the pope died and i

00:22:27.120 think the pope um fired him for being a cardinal i spent the entire remaining two hours of this

00:22:36.500 movie being like john lithgow killed the pope john lithgow killed the pope i was waiting for

00:22:41.080 pope poison the whole time i'm so sorry to the listeners there is no pope poison but it's just

00:22:46.360 is good yeah well no i will say i mean if you've gotten this far full spoilers for conclave

00:22:51.420 yeah so that's the first thing he's like wait what sean lithgow was fired and like okay

00:22:57.400 we're stealing you in this room now bye he's like wait i have follow-up questions and the other

00:23:02.580 even more exciting thing is yes a surprise cardinal has arrived that no one knew existed

00:23:10.260 everybody is present accounted for has checked into their rooms and then Ralph Fiennes is like

00:23:16.080 secretary comes up he goes there's another one and I'm like yes there's another one I'm clapping

00:23:22.260 in my hoodie pocket yeah what do you mean secret cardinal secret cardinal so it turns out and this

00:23:30.380 is a real thing in the actual church so the pope can secretly make somebody a cardinal and then

00:23:35.300 like not announce it publicly if for like safety reasons like they don't want people knowing that

00:23:40.000 there's this cardinal what this movie did do because this is an alternate reality um they said

00:23:48.960 okay in our reality when the pope makes a secret cardinal when that pope dies that secret cardinal

00:23:55.140 is not a cardinal anymore but in this movie the now dead pope made a rule saying like my secret

00:24:00.700 cardinals state cardinals so they do say that in the movie at some point anyway so this guy shows

00:24:06.120 up and they're like who's this and the whole thing is like is he really a cardinal is he trying to

00:24:10.700 infiltrate like who is no one knows this person and so he i forget his name benitez and so he is

00:24:18.600 a mexican person who is a missionary first and then he was he works entirely like in war-torn areas

00:24:28.080 right he's the the unofficial cardinal of afghanistan i think kabul he's the cardinal of

00:24:34.320 Kabul. And that's why they didn't announce it, because it would have been dangerous if anyone

00:24:38.000 knew that there was Cardinal in Kabul. So he's this like, we can talk about this when we get to

00:24:44.400 it, but I'll piecemeal give you some information about the actor who played this role. Do you know

00:24:48.560 anything about the actor who played this role? No, I didn't think to look it up. And now I'm

00:24:51.840 incredibly curious. Well, he lives in Canada. There you go. Which means that our entire country

00:24:59.520 is like our guy so there's a lot of information about him on canadian broadcasting he is from

00:25:05.060 mexico he moved to canada i think 14 or 15 years ago he is by trade an architect this is his first

00:25:11.980 ever acting job yay good for him he did so good yeah right i don't i didn't mean that to sound

00:25:19.700 patronizing i just genuinely did not expect that yeah no so exactly he brings really great energy

00:25:25.340 to this movie of somebody who doesn't quite know what's going on and is trying to figure it out so

00:25:29.880 actually like that's great because yeah no he's never been a cardinal before he's no what's going

00:25:34.980 on exactly exactly and i think part of his thing too is like his just from hearing him talk but

00:25:41.520 i'm like oh yeah because his character was like boots on the ground like he was like a missionary

00:25:45.900 guy whatever like he's probably he's never put on a cardinal's robe before so he's uncomfortable

00:25:49.620 this is not how he usually presents himself he's in this place where no one knows him he doesn't

00:25:53.400 know anybody yeah so this architect um carlos diaz he lives in vancouver in canada and he

00:26:02.480 like around 2020 he became an empty nester like his kids graduated and left home and he's like

00:26:08.940 you know i've always when i was younger i wanted to join the drama club at school but i was too

00:26:13.220 shy and then it was like covid and there's so much acting stuff happening in vancouver there's

00:26:17.940 so much filming there so a lot of acting coaches went online because they had to like keep their

00:26:21.980 business going so he took some he started taking online acting classes in covid and then he got an

00:26:27.900 agent and then i think he was casting like maybe a couple student films but he said he went for he's

00:26:33.780 been for 60 auditions he didn't get any role and then his agent was like i got the script and i

00:26:38.240 think you'd be perfect for this part and he's like wow this is a good script i'm like yeah it's a

00:26:41.560 script for conclave i don't know the most perfect film ever come on let's go i don't know what like

00:26:47.160 hallmark scripts have been turning him down but like he was like yeah i could really connect to

00:26:51.720 because like he Carlos Diaz he wanted to be a priest when he was younger so like he connects

00:26:56.340 with that and so I think his outsider energy brings an unquantifiable thing because it's like

00:27:03.500 Ralph Fiennes John Lithgow Stanley Tucci like this Italian guy like all these very established

00:27:08.000 actors and then so when you read about how the other actors were like wait you're an architect

00:27:12.240 this is your first movie and they were so welcoming and kind and gave him pointers and like explain

00:27:17.580 things to him and they like really loved helping him out and when they left after filming in rome

00:27:23.320 they were like so what are you gonna do now he's like well i need to go back to my job as an

00:27:26.580 architect they're like you're going back to your job as an architect he's like well that's my job

00:27:30.160 i don't know i don't have another acting job lined up he's great and i love him i assume that

00:27:36.660 he was like the most famous actor from mexico like i didn't know who he was the same way there's a

00:27:41.080 character who we'll talk about who's like from nigeria and he's like a famous nigerian actor

00:27:45.160 I do love that every other actor and actress will get to the actress later in this movie.

00:27:51.000 They are chewing the scenery so delightfully.

00:27:54.780 And then Benitez is like, no, no, no, I'm going to play straight down the middle for

00:27:58.700 this character, which is perfect.

00:27:59.860 It's exactly what he needs to do.

00:28:01.320 No, Benitez is so perfect.

00:28:02.480 He said there was one, the actor was saying like in one scene, he felt like Ralph Fiennes

00:28:06.540 was really watching him like off camera while he was acting.

00:28:09.840 And then afterwards, Ralph Fiennes was like, I see now, I see why they cast you like you

00:28:12.880 are Benitez.

00:28:14.700 i would have died on the spot yeah like goodbye this is my life now there's another um story he

00:28:22.620 said where ray fines told him it's like you know it's so important as an actor to really

00:28:26.380 to really know your lines to know the script really well because and then to enunciate because

00:28:31.560 it's up to you so that the audience like every word is important you want to make sure that

00:28:35.800 they understand every word and carlos is like yeah so he's like practicing between every take

00:28:39.460 enunciating and then they did this scene together and afterwards ray fines was like

00:28:43.460 good job yes and he's like oh my god when we get to it later he has a speech and i'll tell you how

00:28:49.340 john lithgow like got him through that speech but so i want to re-watch the movie now just

00:28:53.940 knowing that this guy yeah it's just this like canadian architect so cute i'm excited for him

00:29:00.360 good job man okay so everyone so these are the two twists like the conclave is being sealed off

00:29:05.740 everyone's trapped in this room and the two things that ray fines is are fucking up his mind is like

00:29:11.520 was John Lithgow secretly fired? 0.67

00:29:13.640 And who is this surprise new cardinal?

00:29:17.240 What's happening?

00:29:18.560 But this is where we learn.

00:29:20.080 So this is how Wikipedia breaks it down.

00:29:21.940 So let's say there's four main candidates for Pope.

00:29:24.040 Like, I don't know how many cardinals there are, but.

00:29:26.440 I don't either.

00:29:27.640 200 something.

00:29:29.260 I don't know.

00:29:29.980 There's a lot.

00:29:30.860 So the four main candidates for Pope are Stanley Tucci,

00:29:33.880 who is, his name is Bellini.

00:29:36.540 And he.

00:29:37.460 232 cardinals.

00:29:38.460 I'm so proud of myself.

00:29:39.380 233 with benitez that's very true i also need you to know that i was googling this and the

00:29:44.460 first answer was something like 250 000 but that was how many cardinals are there in the u.s like

00:29:50.680 the bird which was not the question i was asking yeah it didn't seem like 250 000 so so stamtucci

00:29:59.000 is bellini and he is sort of the like centric no he's like a neoliberal pope candidate yeah he's

00:30:07.480 like i don't want to overthrow the entire vatican but maybe we can stop um actively like committing

00:30:15.060 genocides and hating the gays like he's very for the vatican he's very liberal yeah yeah he's like

00:30:23.600 there's a scene where he's like here's what i stand for he's like i want common sense stuff 0.96

00:30:28.920 about like gay people and like divorce and stuff that i'm like okay this would be like very

00:30:36.440 revolutionary if a pope was actually like this but stanley tucci's whole thing he's like but i

00:30:40.660 don't even want to be the pope i don't even want to be the pope he says he says a lot of times how

00:30:47.260 much he doesn't want to be the pope okay because technically you're not supposed to want to be the

00:30:54.540 pope to be the pope that's like the whole thing you elect the guy who doesn't want it but that's

00:30:59.120 why i love papal drama so much because everybody wants it yeah so they're lying to themselves and

00:31:05.260 to everybody else and you're so perfect so stanley tucci it's like he seems to have become sort of

00:31:11.160 the the choice for this faction the sort of like it's kind of like anyone but tedesco faction

00:31:17.460 yes he he is the kamala harris of the conclave yeah yeah um because tedesco it's like if tedesco

00:31:27.200 becomes the pope he's gonna like reverse everything he's gonna bring us back to like

00:31:31.620 spanish inquisition times like he's just like he we don't don't let this fascist be the pope he 0.52

00:31:37.840 vapes and he's clearly evil like that's not good for the pr of us the vatican no that's a much 0.95

00:31:45.200 worse sequel to don't let the pigeon drive the bus which is don't let the fascist become the pope

00:31:49.460 yeah not as popular absolutely and i think this movie is so popular that book is going to be

00:31:53.660 published probably um so we've got bellini um then there's adayemi who is a nigerian candidate

00:32:02.920 and who is a fucking joy to watch on screen for every moment okay okay this guy lucian

00:32:11.180 misamati oh he's i thought anyway he's british okay um but he he's been in everything oh my gosh 0.96

00:32:20.040 um i mean this is a play not a movie that any of us can see but you know who he played

00:32:24.920 on stage in 2017 salieri in amadeus oh my yeah he did i would watch that so hard

00:32:32.600 yeah so he's let me see so he so he was born in london he was brought up in zimbabwe by

00:32:39.820 tanzanian parents so he's got connection to zimbabwe anyway he's done so much all the stage

00:32:46.420 acting um all this he brings a really wonderful stage actor energy to this role where he's playing

00:32:53.160 the back the back of the theater and it's great oh and you know what in 2015 he became the first

00:32:59.940 black actor to play iago oh cool in the royal shakespeare company production of othello

00:33:06.000 and you know why great at that too i know i wouldn't ever cast him as othello i cast him

00:33:10.640 yeah no yeah no no i don't trust that absolutely not i want him to scheme oh my gosh he's so good

00:33:17.720 so he's in so he's still have stage work he's still have television work i'm just seeing what

00:33:22.260 he's done um like every actor he was in the hollow crown the um shakespeare series right

00:33:30.020 i need to watch that again the bishop of carlisle i don't know oh one of those yeah all right

00:33:35.880 he was in richard ii the one that i like the one that you don't like yeah not that i don't like i

00:33:44.020 just have other preferences oh yeah yeah no i i like richard ii and henry the sixth which puts

00:33:49.780 me in the minority henry the sixth is the one i don't like because henry the sixth the terrible

00:33:53.280 play but that's not the point of our pope podcast today no anyway he was on game of thrones he

00:33:58.060 played salador san i remember him he was yeah i think he's like a pirate guy anyway he's been in

00:34:05.340 every british tv show obviously he's in his dark materials he's great so he plays adayemi lucian

00:34:11.980 misamadi like again co best supporting actor supporting actor yeah so how do you how would

00:34:17.700 you describe adayemi's vibe his vibe is he is so friendly to everybody everybody he sees it's the

00:34:25.500 most exciting person he's ever met and you know the second they turn around he's going to stab

00:34:30.480 them in the back with a pencil I just I love that kind of character so much because he he's got the

00:34:36.580 friendliest face in the world and I'm like oh I don't trust that man oh he's so great and then

00:34:41.860 another the other option is Tremblay played by John Lithgow a Canadian cardinal you can take

00:34:50.280 John Lithgow it's fine no I'm gonna take Benitez because he lives in Canada anyway so John Lithgow

00:34:55.980 is there and so how would you describe the difference between him and bellini like he

00:35:00.860 they're both not tedesco right that is correct i gotta tell you i forgot that john lithgow's 0.97

00:35:07.320 character had a name that wasn't john lithgow so you said that i'm like who the fuck is that 0.56

00:35:11.120 john lithgow is what we'll call him obviously yeah great yeah he is if if stanley tucci is like 0.86

00:35:19.320 30 degrees left of center i would say john lithgow is straight exactly down the middle

00:35:26.620 zero percent anywhere and is just he's your grandpa but it's what's the energy he's trying

00:35:33.360 to put out there is oh i'm just here for the good of the church and for my friends and

00:35:37.520 i want nothing and i believe nothing and isn't this all a tragedy but it's john lithgow in

00:35:44.560 dramatic actor mode so you're like yes are you the most evil of everybody with your

00:35:49.380 friendly face john lithgow um you're casually making yourself an espresso and i feel like 0.97

00:35:56.420 you're killing somebody while you're doing oh my god oh my god the the way that he like

00:36:01.180 goes to the kerrig machine he's like do you want a coffee and he pushes down don't accept that 0.66

00:36:07.100 coffee i'm just like a kehrig machine has never been so threatening

00:36:11.980 okay so these are the people who want to be who these are the the front runners to be right

00:36:22.000 um let's see so before the first vote so ray fines who again is a good character in this

00:36:31.080 um and you know what bravely we see his receding hairline and mega close up so many times every

00:36:37.040 time they put the hat on and off I was like I like seeing a receding hairline you never see a

00:36:43.000 receding hairline no one people are either bald like completely about like Stanley Tucci or like

00:36:48.680 The Rock or they have like hair plugs or a wig or I'm just like yeah he's just like no this and

00:36:54.200 it's so perfect for the kind of person he's being in this movie which is just a little bit overworked

00:36:59.460 and a little bit put upon and he doesn't have time to go do anything with his hair because there is

00:37:03.880 of conclave to be managed and the whole thing with ray fines character too is he tried to quit

00:37:08.960 being a cardinal before the pope died because he wants to go and just like be like a small town

00:37:12.860 priest and just like live a quiet life but for some reason the pope was like no i need you to

00:37:17.080 stay and ray fines come to realize it's because i'm the best papal detective in the world because

00:37:23.060 he's someone to do some snooping around which he's going to do very soon so let's see so what

00:37:27.060 do we learn okay so refines gives a sermon to like uh all the cardinals like the opening day

00:37:36.340 blessing for the conclave like let's go get them popes and i think he starts off with his like

00:37:42.860 prepared statement which is like in latin there's a lot of latin spoken in this movie which i feel

00:37:46.860 like you probably found personally very satisfying i did and i liked when they put the subtitles up

00:37:51.540 and i'm like oh i know that one word oh i know that one word over there too that was nice and

00:37:55.960 actually it was cool because the um the movie is so international like the cast and also the

00:37:59.920 characters like people like refines when he's talking to tedesco they go they talk in italian

00:38:04.020 like people are changing languages a lot like the actual cardinals and like the actual pope does

00:38:09.520 like in actual the world my mother again a catholic woman was telling me that pope john paul

00:38:14.900 the second who was the pope for like most of the 80s he spoke like i don't know 45 languages or

00:38:20.740 something and it was like his party trick he would like go and do a speech and he would like pivot

00:38:24.240 languages so many times just to kind of show that he could but he his past pope john paul ii

00:38:30.040 my mother told me was um he was an actor before was he really so he had a he the dramatic flair

00:38:37.400 of the vatican i think agreed with him you must have loved that yeah anyway so he's gonna give

00:38:43.260 this prepared speech but instead he's like you know what cardinals embrace doubt embrace uncertainty

00:38:50.100 tea and everyone's like or the catholic church perhaps we shouldn't do that yeah so everyone's

00:38:57.900 like what are you and then okay so every day ray fines gets to meet with his like secretary i don't

00:39:05.380 know i refer to him as his spy master for this whole time he's going out and getting a little

00:39:10.400 information yeah so every day ray fines is like okay like i need to go be in a conclave sealed

00:39:15.520 off but like could you go like investigate this and the next day he's like oh can you go investigate

00:39:19.440 this now so he's got this guy who can kind of like his man on the scene is able to like go

00:39:24.400 all the other cardinals can't interact with anyone in the outside world but because rave

00:39:27.980 fines is the leg party planner he gets to like talk with this guy and i love this little secretary

00:39:34.140 guy because the first time he's asked to like go do a little snooping he's like monsignor are you

00:39:40.020 sure a snoop me and by like 40 minutes into the movie he's like who do you want me to snoop on

00:39:45.640 boss let's go yeah yeah there's so much snooping to do so what he what he well at first like the

00:39:53.020 new the surprise cardinal comes up benitez and he's like can you just find out like what the 0.76

00:39:57.340 fuck and so this guy is like here's what i've learned um benitez was close to the former pope 0.97

00:40:02.240 the former pope paid for benitez plane ticket to switzerland for a medical appointment that was 0.99

00:40:07.060 later canceled but and that so just bear that in mind but also um before the first vote refines

00:40:14.440 goes to john lithgow and is like and this is where they have their carry coffee scene and he's

00:40:17.800 like so i heard that you were fired by the pope and john lithgow goes me fired i could never have

00:40:28.800 been fired heavens yeah um and ray fines is like okay i guess i'll go now that's the like okay

00:40:41.780 Ralph Fiennes is doing some really good snooping,

00:40:43.800 but I got to tell you,

00:40:45.440 this was not the move here to go into his office

00:40:48.120 and be like, hey, excuse me,

00:40:49.060 I heard you secretly got fired

00:40:50.340 and aren't telling anybody.

00:40:51.680 True, false.

00:40:53.180 Like, what did you expect, my guy?

00:40:55.420 Yeah.

00:40:56.340 Well, and this is, you know,

00:40:57.480 like the snooping guy gets used to snooping.

00:40:59.240 Ralph Fiennes gets better at investigating.

00:41:02.140 He does.

00:41:02.680 He gets much better.

00:41:03.380 The more he realizes that, like,

00:41:04.500 this is his training wheels.

00:41:05.380 Everyone has a secret

00:41:06.760 and you can't just, like,

00:41:08.380 confront them immediately.

00:41:09.360 okay so they have the first vote and the first vote it's like nobody you need to have two-thirds

00:41:15.440 majority at this point Adeyemi is ahead um and a bunch of people voted for Ralph Fiennes and he's

00:41:22.900 like oh no as much as Stanley Tucci's like I don't want to be the pope Ralph Fiennes is like no I

00:41:26.920 don't even want to be a cardinal like I I want to be here I super don't want to be the pope so but

00:41:33.580 that like my speech was too good it was the problem yeah so it's a vote split between bellini and

00:41:39.560 lawrence he was the surprise third party candidate no one wanted that it's like oh no i'm jill

00:41:44.700 starting the conclave i have to stop yeah yeah um and then um benitez gets like one vote which is

00:41:51.420 interesting anyway so the different votes all come out and then they're like okay you know gray smoke

00:41:57.200 the mob vote side is like boo choose a pope so oh but then also of course tedesco gets votes right

00:42:04.340 so the like liberal faction they're like okay we need to um we can't split the vote like lawrence

00:42:13.180 like rave fine stanley tucci like we can't we need to all go behind somebody just so we can

00:42:19.300 beat tedesco so i think we all need to support um adiemi um and bellini is like that guy like

00:42:27.680 he's so like he's like super conservative he's like super homophobic and they're like yeah but

00:42:32.760 he'd be the first black pope so like that's cool and he's not a literal fascist so and he doesn't

00:42:40.640 vape so and he doesn't vape very important yeah okay so then like and this is this is like

00:42:48.620 at the beginning, I've thought this is so good. Like Stanley Tucci, your close personal friend.

00:42:55.560 But we don't need to get into that. A person who I have emailed someone who has emailed someone

00:42:59.900 who has spoken to him one time. Yes, my close personal friend. Stanley Tucci gave an interview

00:43:03.980 where they said, what role would you like to play you haven't played? And he said, oh, I like to play

00:43:07.220 Fagan in Oliver Twist. And that is, of course, what Alison's book is about. So. So we're best

00:43:12.720 friends and he's going to give me 10 million dollars and let me visit his italian villa

00:43:17.620 yeah we've decided and he'll cook for you so um so your close personal friend stanley tucci

00:43:24.400 um he's like on he pivots immediately because at first he's like oh i don't want to be a pope i

00:43:31.400 don't want to be pope and then as soon as ray fines gets votes stanley tucci's like how dare

00:43:35.040 you you want to be the pope and he's so mad it's like oh you wanted to be the you wanted to be pope

00:43:40.220 stanley tucci he wanted it so bad and he's like so ray fines what's your pope name gonna be have

00:43:45.940 you thought of your pope name and ray fines is like no because i don't want to be the pope and 0.81

00:43:49.080 stanley tucci's like bullshit everyone wants to be the pope i'm like stanley tucci 10 minutes ago 0.84

00:43:52.980 you're like no i don't want to be the pope everyone wants to be the pope you want to be the pope it's 0.96

00:43:58.120 not the same thing okay and then this is where so sister shanumi who is uh so actually no so the

00:44:06.500 nuns are on the scene the nuns have been on the scene we saw them arriving the head done is

00:44:10.940 isabella rossellini goddess perfection um so the nuns are on the scene and their job is kind of

00:44:19.140 like behind the scenes housekeeping like they lay out the like shaving kits for everybody and

00:44:24.220 they like make the tortellinis um there's a lot of nuns making pasta footage in this movie which

00:44:29.460 is as a stregan no no girly i enjoyed a lot making the tortellinis i was like wow making

00:44:35.860 tortellinis it's rossellini making tortellinis um yeah so the nuns are there and their job is

00:44:43.900 just to kind of like be invisible and be in the background and just kind of like make everything

00:44:47.100 go cool for the conclave dudes right because they couldn't bring in like a catering company

00:44:51.460 this is they're sequestered it's the vatican you need something you can try so has to be the nuns

00:44:55.500 so one of the nuns who's on the scene is this nigerian nun named sister shinumi um and she

00:45:01.120 uh causes a stir by confronting Adeyemi in the Cardinal's dormitory and then she later they have

00:45:09.020 like a run-in at like in the cafeteria her and Adeyemi that ends with her like running off

00:45:14.420 Sister Shinumi um and Ralph Fiennes is like what's going on so then Sister Shinumi went to see

00:45:22.180 Isabella Rossellini and which is great there's this scene where Ralph Fiennes comes up and

00:45:27.420 Isabella Rossellini opens the door like two inches and she's like I got this handle don't

00:45:30.660 worry about it go away and he's like it's my conclave i would like to handle it and she looks 1.00

00:45:35.660 she closes the door like another half bitch and says no really i got it please leave it's us so 1.00

00:45:41.600 good so then he comes in he's like i need to talk to sister shinumi and then we don't see them 1.00

00:45:46.280 talking to each other but what we learn that he was told is that sister shinumi um she

00:45:52.640 had an illicit relationship with adiemi 30 years ago resulting in like back in nigeria

00:46:00.640 resulting in the birth of a son um so adiami has a secret son and this is where i was like how old

00:46:07.080 is anyone i was like wait 30 years ago how old is sister shinumi i'm like so it's not he didn't

00:46:14.520 just have a son like 30 years ago they had this affair and they had this son i think it was

00:46:20.520 implied that she's a lot younger than he is and yet she was like 17 or 18 at the time yeah but

00:46:27.920 he's now 47 and he's 70 or something like that right yeah um anyway so but basically when you're

00:46:36.540 the pope can't have a son this is not anymore this is not no big deal the borgias no

00:46:45.120 yeah i did do a little gasp at this part of the movie too i was like

00:46:49.900 a cardinal with a son just like the renaissance yeah yeah so bring just bring that all back

00:46:57.300 Anyway, so, um, so Ray Fiennes learns about this and he actually, no, he's like, Isabel Russell. And he's like, no, she's not going to talk to you. She's not going to talk to you. And then Ray Fiennes is like, do you want to give a confession, my child? But then it's like, when you learn something in confession, like you can't tell anybody, you can't tell the police, you can't tell anybody. Like that's the whole thing with confession. But Ray Fiennes now knows.

00:47:21.280 um anyway so he goes to talk to Adeyemi and is like oh bro like I heard something and I can't

00:47:35.060 tell you what it is or how I heard it but is there anything weighing on your mind that you'd

00:47:39.780 like to tell me and Adeyemi's like no everything's totally cool totally chill I got a lot of votes in

00:47:44.760 the conclave and i'm just gonna go to dinner now and refines is like are you though and

00:47:52.180 he basically is like look like areyemi is like it's a great scene the actor great job he's he's

00:48:00.380 like you know i was young and i made a mistake and like whatever and like i'm not i'm not that

00:48:04.620 guy anymore and refines is like yeah regardless like you were seen like having dramatic confrontations

00:48:12.500 with this nun twice so even even if there wasn't a secret love child like this discounts you to be

00:48:19.580 the pope like you're not gonna you know what the catholic church doesn't want in the pope right now 0.99

00:48:23.620 is a sex scandal so yeah yeah you're out but i'm so sorry but adiemi is like oh this sucks like 0.52

00:48:33.120 will you pray with me and this is where i was like and ray fines is like of course i'm like oh he's 0.52

00:48:37.720 he's a good person interesting but he also deduces with the help of isabel rosalina that

00:48:45.200 shinumi had never left nigeria before being personally invited to come be at the conclave

00:48:50.100 so it's like this was clearly a setup somebody wanted her there to cause this confrontation

00:48:53.800 and i think we this wasn't in the summary which is a failure on wikipedia's part

00:48:58.780 but there are turtles at the vatican this is so important to the movie and maybe not to the movie

00:49:06.100 but to me it's very important to me and there's the scene with um benitez the surprise mexican

00:49:12.440 cardinal and he's just hanging out with the pope's the dead pope's turtles yeah he's just like i just

00:49:18.840 like them and ray fines is like sometimes i have to bring him back into the pool because they'll

00:49:23.320 wander out into the road and get hit by a car and i'm like what's happening in this scene and they

00:49:28.540 just have this nice scene and then benitez is like yeah just so you know ray fines like i voted for

00:49:33.560 you in the conclave and refines is like please don't like i don't want to be pope and this is

00:49:38.560 gonna like if you vote for me like tedesco might win and benitez is like yeah but you're supposed

00:49:44.300 to vote for who you think would be the best pope and i'm gonna keep voting for you because i'm

00:49:49.000 benitez and i am a very straightforward upfront person but yeah the turtles i was like i was like

00:49:55.640 oh no i believe it was my companions how the movie with was like they're surprised there

00:49:59.180 was in a scene of like tedesco kicking a turtle just to really remind everybody that he sucks

00:50:05.140 because he would oh he sure would you know what he would do he'd be like boil his turtles make 0.94

00:50:09.500 me a soup i want i want turtle soup sure would and then he'd like pour it on someone's head

00:50:14.560 so um so that's the first drama so adiemi is now out of the running but then also now that adiemi

00:50:22.660 can't be the like liberal candidate against tedesco so they're like i guess we they have

00:50:27.860 this secret meeting that was very like all the president's men this is the one on the three

00:50:32.020 levels of the staircase yeah yeah it was very like democratic national convention vibes it was

00:50:38.780 this was when you're picking warren g harding to be president this was like what should we do i

00:50:42.980 don't know who do you think we can do it well let's just plot louder in the shadows and see

00:50:46.740 if anyone notices yeah and it's like stanley tucci ray fines and i forget who else but they're like

00:50:51.760 who like we can't stanley tucci's not going to win they know that ray fines doesn't want to win

00:50:56.540 Adeyemi's out of the run they're like I guess we have to support John Lithgow

00:50:59.760 and Ray Fiennes is like god damn it but like this is the only way to block Tedesco

00:51:06.000 and then um oh yeah so there's a scene with Isabella Rossellini and her like ancient 0.88

00:51:11.920 dial-up modem computer where Ray Fiennes is like you tell me who sent Sister Shinumi like why is

00:51:19.740 she here and Isabella Rossellini is like she's so good I saw somewhere she had something like

00:51:24.240 seven minutes of screen time but she's like in the conversation for best supporting actress 0.71

00:51:27.980 because it's like that's what seven minutes they were it was great her facial expressions are

00:51:33.320 iconic it's beautiful incredible she's like so much smarter than everybody there and she's just 0.98

00:51:39.640 like do i have to spell it out for you you fucking men okay sure figure it out so this is where 0.95

00:51:47.520 refines is like please can you tell me this information she's like no i can't tell you the 1.00

00:51:50.600 information then she like puts on her reading glasses and she's like typey typey types in 0.97

00:51:53.840 her computer password and then like walks out of the room so he can like look at the files on her

00:51:58.200 computer do you know who she reminds me of in this movie who is sister michael from dairy girls 1.00

00:52:03.380 i have not watched dairy girls you would love dairy girls but just a bitching ass down who 1.00

00:52:08.340 doesn't give a damn yeah so good she's isabel roslini is fantastic in this film and so from 0.98

00:52:13.920 this ray fines learns that john lithgow arranged for sister shinobi to come to the vatican 0.96

00:52:19.940 and he's like what the fuck but he doesn't to his credit go to john lithgow to be like ask hey why

00:52:27.560 did you do this he's learning the schemes are getting that his scheminess score is going up 0.97

00:52:34.660 as we progress through this oh but then there's also the scene this is not in the summary but i

00:52:38.660 just remember because it was this was another applause chuckling to myself scene was where

00:52:43.980 Ralph Fiennes meets with his outside spymaster because he's like, so when John Lithgow met with

00:52:49.800 the dead Pope, there was like another guy in the room. And Ralph Fiennes is like, go find that

00:52:54.040 other guy and see what he says. Like, will he say that John Lithgow was fired? And so the spymaster

00:52:58.400 comes back and he's like, I talked to that other guy. And he said like, no, John Lithgow is totally

00:53:02.480 not fired. And then he's like, but he said it kind of too emphatically. And he also said,

00:53:08.540 regard, don't worry about what it says in the report. He wasn't fired. And Ralph Fiennes is

00:53:13.120 like what report reports and we were both like there's a report there's gonna be a paperwork

00:53:19.980 based drama let's go this is me clapping inside my hoodie again it's like in in a murder mystery

00:53:27.100 where some where you confront the the person who did it and you're like did you kill this person

00:53:31.120 like no i don't even know how to use a gun and it's like i didn't tell you that they were shot

00:53:36.900 yeah exactly so the guy was like no he totally wasn't fired and there's and i don't know it's

00:53:41.540 a lie. Was it? So this leads us to the most iconic scene in the movie. This is the one where I

00:53:50.800 applauded. Ralph Fiennes breaks into the dead Pope's room. And literally he has to go up.

00:53:58.480 Remember, they sealed it in that opening Jurassic Park scene. And so there's a big old red ribbon

00:54:02.960 with an old timey wax seal on it. And Ralph Fiennes stops and he looks at it and the music

00:54:07.920 gets more and more dramatic and he looks at the seal and then he snaps the seal like a communion 0.99

00:54:12.700 wafer and walks into the pope's bedroom and i am losing my shit in the back of the theater 0.95

00:54:17.220 oh my god i i was losing my mind to like a scene or two earlier i think when the spy master had 0.97

00:54:22.980 found some secrets and he's like what do you want to snoop on next boss and refines it's like let's

00:54:26.500 just stop snooping this is like i don't like learning all these secrets stop snooping and i

00:54:31.300 was like no no more secrets so then that made it even more excited which he was like i have to go

00:54:39.560 into the pope's room and then allison who comes down the hallway is this isabella rossellini who 0.96

00:54:45.800 wants to sneak into the pope's bedroom and absolutely the fuck knows that someone's in 0.81

00:54:49.920 the pope's bedroom and ray finds this hiding behind the door in the shadows trying not to 0.98

00:54:54.540 breathe like he's in scooby-doo and isabella rossellini looks she's like i know someone's

00:55:00.580 in there however it's none of my business and she turns around and walks away the face acting she 0.94

00:55:07.060 does like that's her academy award right there just her standing outside that door and refines

00:55:11.200 being like i'm invisible no one can see me if i close my eyes it's the velociraptor from jurassic

00:55:16.800 park exactly exactly exactly um so he's in the pope's room and he's just like what it just

00:55:25.000 occurred to me now that of course she knows it's him she's like oh good he's gonna figure it out

00:55:29.640 great i don't have to go break in there myself and tell him good for you rafines carry on she

00:55:34.720 walks away oh my gosh so he's like here's the pope's robes it's like what book is on his night

00:55:40.640 stand and then he like sees the pope's glasses what book do you think is on the pope's bedstand

00:55:44.680 friends what do you think it is could it be the bible it was in fact the bible i think it would

00:55:50.920 have been great if it was something anyway silence of the lambs um the new james patterson so he sees

00:55:59.180 the pope's glasses and he like cries and it's like because that was like his friend and he

00:56:02.480 feels like they and like the pope died and they it wasn't on the best terms because refines was

00:56:06.580 trying to quit and he wasn't allowed to be to quit and we now know the pope didn't want him

00:56:10.280 to quit because the pope was like i need this guy to run my conclave like no one else guy is the

00:56:15.080 urkel poirot of the vatican we cannot get rid of him he's too good at snooping exactly well it's

00:56:21.160 like the only people who are not shitty in all of the vatican are like isabella rossellini 0.89

00:56:26.420 ray fines and secret cardinal like everybody else is shitty and so the pope is like i need 0.94

00:56:32.080 i need you to run this conclave bro and then take it away allison and he's holding the glasses 0.85

00:56:38.860 he's crying he looks over at the headboard of the pope's bed the bed that the pope died in

00:56:46.520 and behind like the headboard padding in the wood there's a little white something

00:56:53.120 sticking out and he looks away and then he looks back at it and he goes what is that and i lost my

00:56:59.840 mind because then he starts to pry it out like a little secret cabinet inside of the dead pope's

00:57:07.000 headboard and what is it but the secret john lithgow report behind the cinema headboard 0.99

00:57:14.900 i was losing my goddamn mind i was so excited at the secret report behind the pope's headboard 0.89

00:57:24.440 this was like this was my super bowl this was incredible feeling and it was the john let's go 0.99

00:57:32.000 report it was the john let's go report the pope like met with john let's go presumably in his bed

00:57:38.600 with this report and then john let's go left the pope was like

00:57:42.080 just gonna put this here i'm dead now yeah and it's like stamped with a big old red secret

00:57:49.720 report logo on the front like it's a carmen san diego video game it's perfect yeah and it's a

00:57:56.060 john let's go report right so then he goes and he talks he confronts john let's go and he's like

00:58:01.100 bro i found oh no before this he had confronted john let's go about the sending sister shinumi

00:58:05.840 yes sorry before this like in the hallway and this is where i was like john let's go is

00:58:10.740 10 feet tall my god he's so tall he's incredibly fine is not short yeah so they have this scene

00:58:18.340 in a hallway where he rave finds again is just kind of like john let's go like you pretend to

00:58:22.060 be a friendly grandpa but you like clearly sent sister shinumi and john let's go is like i only

00:58:26.700 did that because the pope asked me to do that i don't know why the pope wanted me to do that

00:58:31.540 do do do do do um and then he's like and you have to vote for me because otherwise tedesco will win

00:58:37.720 so that's where it's at bro and if he could have skateboarded away he would have skateboarded away

00:58:44.460 and that's one of them says to the other one like let's pretend this conversation didn't happen

00:58:48.360 and the other one was like john lisko says and rafines looks in the distance and he says

00:58:52.040 but it did happen yeah and then he goes and brings it to the pope's room yeah that's what it was

00:58:57.820 that's right that's right oh god okay so now he's got john he's got the report right but it's like

00:59:04.080 but he got it by breaking to the pope's room which is like you're not supposed to do right

00:59:08.200 let's see and then he goes and he's like he goes he's like stanley tucci oh my god look at this 0.99

00:59:12.980 report i found in the pope's secret headboard stanley tucci's like what the fuck were you 0.51

00:59:16.940 doing in the pope's room my guy um and that oh and so what the report says is basically that 0.95

00:59:22.640 john lithgow was bribing cardinals to vote for him is right simony which is like the oldie

00:59:29.280 timiest of oldie time crimes and they're just i this is my favorite kind of exposition where

00:59:35.280 ray finds it's like simony you know but when you bribe votes in the curia to make yourself pope

00:59:41.040 and stanley tucci is like i know what simony is oh yeah but most of the grandpas in the audience

00:59:47.360 don't so thanks for explaining it yeah i didn't know it's like on star trek when they're like

00:59:51.120 so what you're saying is this alien species doesn't breathe oxygen yes of course of course

00:59:58.060 everyone knows that yeah so John Lithgow has been doing simony um he's not the friendly

01:00:03.060 grandpa that no one actually thought he was anyway but this is just another twist on twist

01:00:07.720 because Ralph Fiennes goes and he's like Stanley Tucci oh my god what'd you do and Stanley Tucci's

01:00:11.380 like bro guess what I agreed to support um John Lithgow because he's gonna make me like secretary

01:00:18.500 of state or whatever secretary of pope i don't know so um sidebar the in the carolina brunswick

01:00:28.140 book that i'm writing she goes to rome and so in a lot of these scenes i was like picturing carolina

01:00:33.800 brunswick and all these rooms i'm like what would she be doing she'd be wearing a hat with a feather

01:00:37.320 and she'd be amazing she'd be doing simony probably she probably would be as would christine 1.00

01:00:42.740 of sweden who also spent a lot of time in rome i was just like rome that's where my gals go 1.00

01:00:46.740 catalina de rasso was in rome remember she had a dispensation for pants the pants from you know 0.98

01:00:52.160 what yeah the pope gave her the tedesco wouldn't have done that he would not have stanley tucci

01:00:57.580 would have but um so as much as stanley tucci was like oh i don't want to be the pope now he's just

01:01:04.480 like oh yeah no i'm actually corrupt as well yeah and i he does look like he feels a little bit bad

01:01:10.100 about it yeah but so the thing is stanley tucci was presenting himself as being this like oh no

01:01:15.780 i'm just this like sunshine and flowers like friendly guy and he's like no i'm actually just

01:01:20.680 as corrupt as everyone else meanwhile benitez actually is that pure and good he actually is 0.99

01:01:26.080 what stanley tucci was initially pretending he was like and so refines is just like fuck this 0.99

01:01:32.140 like everybody's corrupt oh my god it's like yeah welcome to the vatican the vatican my god have 0.96

01:01:37.040 you heard of a catholic church and this is why they didn't let them film in the vatican yeah

01:01:42.980 yeah probably yeah um but oh yeah no i was gonna say this is my favorite um office supply based

01:01:50.620 betrayal that's coming up soon yes but first i just wanted to say when we were talking about

01:01:55.120 like you're gonna be the like secretary of pope or whatever the jobs are there's a part in the

01:02:00.000 carolina brunswick saga where it's like this guy who was the papal ambassador to hanover and i'm

01:02:07.480 like do you does that need to exist do we need an ambassador in the vatican from him like do we do

01:02:16.140 we need any ambassadors in the vatican what are these it's it's not really a country bro like

01:02:22.600 what are we doing they used to go to war with people which is great but yeah in carolina

01:02:27.420 brunswick's day it's sort of not happening anymore yeah i'm like and that's why in this movie they're

01:02:32.380 like yeah you can be secretary of state and i was like secretary of state of vatican but i'm like

01:02:36.040 oh no it is like a country that's like i don't entirely understand but i feel it's like

01:02:41.520 in the middle of rome it's not yeah it's like a mile and a half wide it's it's classic italian

01:02:47.240 we don't know what a country is so we're gonna make it up but it's like in rome yeah yeah city

01:02:54.220 state inside of a city inside of another state yeah yeah okay bro um so the yes so

01:03:04.200 said who she's like we need to support john lithgow because no one else can defeat um 0.99

01:03:10.500 tedesco who's still just around there just like vaping evilly just so you remember that he sucks 0.65

01:03:16.960 he's got like a chalice of red wine in his hand at all times and he's always talking a little bit

01:03:22.660 too loudly it's really great he's so good and that was where i was thinking like you know again

01:03:28.420 in terms of like movie theater tie-ins it's like you want to go into the like adult you know the

01:03:33.120 theater you can get like booze to drink it's like what i want is a chalice of red wine yes and to

01:03:38.300 watch this movie because i would swirl it at dramatic points it would be oh perfect it'd be

01:03:43.920 me and they could keep the chalice because it'd be sort of like conclave themed conclave

01:03:48.060 so that's the only thing i think this movie would have benefited from is every time someone got

01:03:55.080 knocked out of the running to be pope a big old like bum bum conclave on the screen you got

01:03:59.900 conclaved i think that would have been a good addition like in a video game just like knocked

01:04:04.700 out exactly so yes this is the office supply-based scene which is also very similar if you think

01:04:13.480 about it to the climax of cruel intentions because what happens is ray finds isabella

01:04:20.980 if ray finds this in isabella rossellini's like office and he's like trying to figure

01:04:25.800 at the photocopier to make copies of the, like, John Lithgow's report.

01:04:28.580 And he's just, like, standing in his cardinal robes with his little red velvet hat on,

01:04:33.380 and he's trying to make photocopies of the report to keep saying, like,

01:04:36.620 paper jam, paper jam.

01:04:38.460 And I'm like, oh, this is so...

01:04:39.900 As someone who works in an office with people who already finds his age, 0.99

01:04:42.540 that's extremely true.

01:04:44.180 And then, like, I would imagine you in the office,

01:04:46.380 Isabella Rossellini comes up, she's like, how many copies do you need?

01:04:48.880 No, but what she does first is she opens the lid,

01:04:51.080 sees that it's the secret John Lithgow report,

01:04:53.280 and then she closes the lid and says how many copies do you need yes and refines is like 233

01:04:59.460 or whatever 233 one i'm taking home as a souvenir yeah so they print off just like at the end of

01:05:06.880 cruel intentions when they print off um sir michelle galler's evil diary they make photocopies 0.74

01:05:11.720 of the report and then the is it isabella wrestling like they put one at everybody's

01:05:17.300 place for like breakfast in the cafeteria so there's like a report at everyone's place i was 0.67

01:05:21.060 just this it was peak like high school movie it was it was the burn book and mean girls

01:05:26.680 yeah yeah so he just but what he did do though is refines he um blacked out the names of the

01:05:33.960 cardinals who had been bribed so as to not expose them just john let's go just exposing john let's

01:05:39.480 go um so then they and this is the again this is like if and when isabella rossellini has her

01:05:46.860 oscar nomination this is what they won't like she would win it for looking darting her eyes back and

01:05:51.840 forth outside of the dead pope's door oh but they'll play this scene yeah because so ray finds

01:05:57.920 like everyone reads the report um and everyone's just like like maybe it's fake or i forget what

01:06:04.220 they're saying but then isabella rossellini is just like hi like i know i'm supposed to be

01:06:09.120 invisible but like fuck that and this is all true and he brought sister the nigerian nun here 0.88

01:06:17.980 and boom mic drop isabella rosalini out and then she like curtsies she's like and i know everything 0.99

01:06:24.300 and you didn't even notice it was me because none of you notice women except for ray fines

01:06:28.800 gone she does the curtsy and then yes yes beautiful it was gorgeous work it was my theater applauded

01:06:38.100 it wasn't just me she it was so good it was like people applauded at that America Ferrera speech

01:06:44.080 and Barbie and this is exactly like that we're like yes yes women um I want to tell you the

01:06:52.260 other time we got a full theater laugh in my in my showing was at some point I think I think it

01:06:58.300 was when they were just talking about okay we have to get behind John Liskow as Pope and Ray

01:07:01.780 Fiennes was like we have to get behind who was Pope and Staley Cushy goes it wouldn't be the

01:07:05.720 worst pope we've ever had and the theater loved that theater of like your local catholic

01:07:12.400 all of us remembering pope john the 12th maybe that was just me oh yeah that was in the scene

01:07:18.420 it was in the scene of the staircase and the guy was like look we've had nazi sympathizers as popes

01:07:22.120 we've had this as popes we've had this as popes it's like could be worse yeah we've had nazi

01:07:27.080 sympathizers as popes like 20 years ago yeah okay um oh yeah i was gonna say about isabella

01:07:34.020 Rossellini. So something else I learned is that, so Isabella Rossellini famously is the daughter

01:07:38.520 of Ingrid Bergman, the famous actress. Stanley Tucci, famously a person who knows a lot about

01:07:44.200 Italian food and dining. So they're all, and also this guy, this architect from Vancouver is also,

01:07:49.660 they're all in Rome, just like hanging out. And so yeah, Isabella Rossellini, but she's the one,

01:07:55.240 she's like, oh, like do you, I'll show you all the good places to eat all the best Italian food.

01:07:58.580 Like I'm an Italian person and I grew up here. And Stanley Tucci's like, oh, that's great. I

01:08:03.240 know some restaurants too and Isabella Rossellini's like but do you know this place and what it is is

01:08:07.780 it's a restaurant run by nuns that where she used to go a lot with her mom because the nuns didn't

01:08:14.240 watch movies and they didn't know who Ingrid Bergman was so Isabella Rossellini could go there

01:08:19.260 like her mother loved going there when she was in Rome because she was treated not like a famous

01:08:24.220 actress but yeah but it's this like secret nun restaurant like in a nunnery I want to go there

01:08:31.780 was Stanley Tucci and Isabella Rossellini and Stanley Tucci was like this is actually the best

01:08:35.900 Italian food I've ever had I'm Stanley Tucci my whole career is eating Italian food and it's like

01:08:42.380 this secret non-restaurant and then this guy for the architect is just like wow my life is great

01:08:48.560 what is happening right now um so yeah so because of all this John Lithgow is now no longer in the

01:08:57.780 running so when the people are like him and Adeyemi like they're still there they're still

01:09:00.960 voting the conclave it's just like they know that there's not support like they're not

01:09:04.180 anymore they just got conclaved they still have to attend boom conclaved so it's kind of like

01:09:10.720 so now it's like well i guess it's going to be like everyone keeps being knocked out because

01:09:15.480 of their like secret secrets and it's like well who's left to like and it's like haha now tedesco

01:09:21.460 is going to win but then it's like well now we need to call us all the support behind ray fines

01:09:24.880 who's been getting votes every time even though he's been trying to personally tell people stop 0.96

01:09:29.100 voting for me and then he just did that dramatic shit with the photocopier i'd fucking vote for 0.97

01:09:33.760 him at this point in the movie i'm like yes that guy i want this messy drama um but also every vote 0.98

01:09:40.760 benitez like the first time he got one vote the next time he got like three votes then he got

01:09:44.260 like five votes so he's been like quietly people have started like i feel like anytime someone

01:09:48.980 talks to him they're like oh wait you're like actually nice and good like so like one more

01:09:54.580 person votes for him too so the only remaining candidates really are ray fines and tedesco

01:10:00.680 and so ray fines and who's been like i don't want to be the pope i don't even want to be a cardinal

01:10:06.080 but then they show this is growing getting up to a big twist but what happens is so they're all

01:10:12.300 there and they're voting and it seems like where the movie is headed and ray fines they show him

01:10:15.300 writing down his own name because he's like i don't want to be pope but like i can't let tedesco

01:10:18.940 be pope and he writes down his own name and as he goes up to submit his no wait wait wait we have

01:10:23.720 one thing before this which is when stanley tucci is like you're gonna be pope you picked out your

01:10:28.740 pope name yet and refines is like yes and my pope name will be john and that's when you know he's

01:10:35.120 betrayed himself but he's picked his own pope name i love that but then yes he writes his name

01:10:40.640 down and he starts to walk toward the big old elaborate bowl where you put your name

01:10:44.860 and then neither of us can decide who gets to say it because it's the best an explosion

01:10:52.860 he put the second his name hits the bowl a bomb blows out the top of the vatican 0.99

01:11:02.840 now i yelled fuck yes yeah yeah i hope you did by the way this was the genre switch into an 0.99

01:11:12.860 movie i was referring to no this is where i was like this is the moment allison meant 0.98

01:11:16.580 this is the pivot because suddenly the movie did change but there was foreshadowing of this

01:11:22.960 because like a few votes ago there had been some sort of weird noise outside and they're all like

01:11:27.220 what was that and Ralph Fiennes talks to his guy on the outside the guy's like oh yeah no there's

01:11:31.400 like a bomb set off like somewhere across the city but like we can't let the cardinals know

01:11:34.860 because that might affect their vote so we knew that there was some sort of like terrorism type

01:11:39.220 thing happening in rome but but i did not expect the literal light of god's judgment to punch its

01:11:48.740 fist through the ceiling and knock rave finds to the ground for voting for himself for pope yeah

01:11:54.560 i love when a symbolism just actually physically hurts you it's so obvious i love it because with

01:12:01.920 the way that because you know they had those like really the hurricane blinds and all the windows

01:12:05.240 but and the bomb knocked them off so now there's like a light going like coming in through the

01:12:10.080 window a single beam of light that i think might actually land on the crucifix or something yeah

01:12:15.080 so it looks like like it looks like the scene of the sistine chapel like this like perfect

01:12:18.660 beam of light it's like so yeah no that's why i was like i feel like this has to be the pivot

01:12:23.960 that allison meant where the movie changes yeah because i was already on board but now i'm even

01:12:28.960 more on board because this just got bananas um okay so what what happened was so it was a

01:12:37.740 i didn't catch all the details but not because the actors weren't enunciating like refines taught

01:12:43.560 them but um so a suicide bomber attack i was just so excited i didn't pay attention

01:12:48.440 um a suicide bomber attacks the vatican killing many in the crowd outside and damaging the

01:12:53.920 Sistine Chapel um so then all of the cardinals are taken it's sort of like in January 6th where

01:13:01.500 all of the like Congress was taken to like a secret underground room or something all together

01:13:06.080 yeah they go to the Vatican bunker which looks like a middle school auditorium I was like they

01:13:11.460 just put them in a movie theater it was it it does look like a middle school auditorium and

01:13:16.940 it's the same place where they had their earliest meeting of Stanley Tucci being like oh I don't

01:13:20.920 want to be the pope like it's a room we've seen before it's the room for secret conversations

01:13:24.760 that's right yeah so they're all in this kind of like movie theater type room and so tedesco

01:13:30.060 stands up and he's all like oh make vatican great again this is what we get for tolerating the 0.90

01:13:36.680 muslims i'm like oh okay yeah he's like let's just bring back like the um oh what's it called 1.00

01:13:43.580 where the in the medieval times crusades let's bring back the crusades and like go destroy these 0.99

01:13:50.300 like muslims um and then okay so what is about to happen is that benitez is going to give a speech 0.97

01:13:56.100 and what i want to tell you is what i saw in the actor's interview with cbc radio

01:14:01.320 was he was talking about um he was so nervous because he had this big speech to give and he's

01:14:07.440 like an architect from vancouver and he's having to give a speech in front of all these people

01:14:12.500 he's like shakespearean actors who've been doing this one of whom is john lithgow like no pressure

01:14:17.080 but john lithgow i'm glad you said that so he was just like oh i'm so nervous and john lithgow

01:14:22.380 was like here's the thing so i just love the fact that these guys are all coaching him

01:14:25.520 because he's like 53 years old all the other actors are like 73 so they're already like a

01:14:30.380 bit older than him but like so much more experienced in this job right so john lithgow

01:14:35.640 was like here's the thing when you have a big speech like this like you're so in control of

01:14:39.520 it like don't feel like you have to talk quickly to get it over with like the camera is gonna keep

01:14:44.140 stay on you until you finish.

01:14:46.260 So like take all the time you need,

01:14:47.880 take all the pauses you need and just like know that you are actually in

01:14:52.180 control of the situation.

01:14:53.840 And I was like,

01:14:54.600 wow,

01:14:54.880 John Lithgow.

01:14:56.720 And the actor,

01:14:58.880 Carlos Diaz was like,

01:14:59.840 well,

01:14:59.920 what do you do about like stage fright?

01:15:01.160 And John Lithgow is like,

01:15:01.860 well,

01:15:01.940 that never goes away,

01:15:02.820 but that just shows how much you care.

01:15:04.820 Oh yeah.

01:15:07.380 Hey.

01:15:08.080 And then the director who was also like,

01:15:09.700 okay,

01:15:10.020 like I cast you Canadian architect,

01:15:12.000 like,

01:15:12.900 how are you doing?

01:15:13.500 And he's like,

01:15:14.140 no, I'm good. I'm fine. And the director was like, okay, because like, I can hear your heart

01:15:18.180 beating through your, your microphone because you're so anxious right now. So Carlos Diaz is

01:15:26.200 like, okay, like some deep breaths. Yeah. So knowing all of that. So what he does is he stands

01:15:31.620 up and he gives a speech and he's just like in this soft spoken, kind, good person way. That

01:15:36.660 is his way that the same way he was with the turtles. Like he's just, you know, he's just

01:15:43.140 like a genuine person and that's part of what i like about this movie is that the people really

01:15:48.500 are who they seem they are it's not like a twist on a twist on a twist it's just like no he actually

01:15:52.680 is just a good person the story anybody who is secretly not a good person is acting so loudly

01:15:59.760 that you know from the beginning they're not so here's how the wikipedia describes the speech

01:16:04.900 that he gives which is very soft spoken but also like strong in like a quiet way and what the actor

01:16:12.300 had also said when he was thinking about this character was like this is somebody he's been

01:16:16.240 like he worked as a missionary and he's worked in these different roles like he's clearly got

01:16:20.140 leadership skills like he knows how to get people to listen to him he's not just like this innocent

01:16:25.980 in the woods or whatever like he does have the goods and so that comes out in this speech so it

01:16:30.620 says benitez responds to this like tedesco fascist speech calling for a christian war benitez is like

01:16:37.800 violence should not be met with more violence he's seen the true cost of war during his time

01:16:41.940 in the Congo, Baghdad, and Kabul.

01:16:44.340 And it's like a very moving speech.

01:16:47.900 And then they all go back into the conclave room

01:16:50.960 to vote again.

01:16:53.540 And this time, the majority vote for Benitez.

01:16:59.220 Who is our new pope?

01:17:03.100 The white smoke goes up.

01:17:05.360 The people in the square are stoked.

01:17:08.740 I think they were also,

01:17:09.820 when they were in the secret cardinal room i think they're also talking about how like we need to

01:17:16.060 elect a pope like the people need to see that we are strong that we are unified like that the church 0.97

01:17:22.740 isn't just full of bitches who are like ambitious like we need to be like it'll be soothing and 0.96

01:17:28.940 help people recover from this tragedy when they see that like we can get it together and like 0.98

01:17:34.820 elect a pope um so they elect benitez as pope actually the way that this is revealed it's like

01:17:40.400 we don't see at first like they take the they're like okay a pope has been chosen and then you

01:17:45.980 slowly see in the crowd and you see like john lethko is there and you see stanley tucci is

01:17:51.320 there and it's like oh did they choose ray fines but then right they're all clapping

01:17:54.580 then you see ray fines clapping and you're like he's not the pope it's like who's the pope and

01:17:59.680 then it's like it's benitez and then like benitez do you do you accept this rose and then and then

01:18:07.140 benitez is like i will and they're like and what's your pope name and he's like innocent

01:18:11.640 innocente he says and then you would think that's the end of the movie however we go back to the

01:18:21.420 turtles because i think there's a turtle wandering through the vatican and ray fines is like oh it's

01:18:26.920 turtle and then his spy comes in and he's like holy shit oh my god what's happening he's like i

01:18:33.580 i didn't think benitez was gonna be pope so i didn't tell you this other information that i

01:18:38.520 had learned but now benitez is pope and i don't know what to do and this movie actually does a

01:18:45.260 really good job of like not showing the person saying the thing but cutting to the next scene

01:18:49.920 of somebody reacting to the thing so he finds is like well what what did you find out and he's like

01:18:54.380 I found out why Benitez was going to go to Switzerland for the medical thing. And Ralph

01:19:00.340 Fiennes is like, well, what, what is it? And the guy's like, I can't tell you. And then cut to

01:19:04.200 Ralph Fiennes being like, Oh my God, what am I going to do? So then he goes in to see Benitez,

01:19:10.980 who like hasn't come out yet in his Pope outfit. They're like that he won't put on his Pope outfit.

01:19:16.340 We don't know why. So then Ralph Fiennes goes in and Benitez is like, I've been waiting for you to

01:19:20.280 come in because we're bros and i knew you would um and refines is like do you want to tell me

01:19:28.080 about the switzerland surgery situation benitez how how would you how do you recall benitez

01:19:38.160 explaining this i recall trying to guess what it was for and getting exactly three wrong guesses in

01:19:45.780 before he revealed what kind of a surgery it was but I was sure they were gonna the secret reveal

01:19:51.920 was going to be AIDS because they kept referring to him going to a clinic in Switzerland and I was

01:19:57.140 thinking well that would be a kick-ass reveal actually like love that and then they keep

01:20:02.880 talking and then it's like oh I guess it's not that it's not that I don't know what it is and

01:20:07.380 then Benitez eventually says well I went to go I was scheduled for a surgery and then I decided I

01:20:13.100 didn't want to do it but i hope said it was no big deal and so i could go ahead and become a

01:20:19.260 cardinal anyway and then he says what the surgery was and he says he was scheduled for a hysterectomy

01:20:24.960 and i almost fell out of my chair so he explains that what i what i also heard is that he and ray

01:20:30.900 finds like they spend like six to seven hours filming that scene like just really getting into

01:20:35.260 it and so what he explains is he was going to get uh basically he doesn't say these words but what

01:20:41.940 he is saying is benitez was intersex and assigned male at birth and then grew up in uh like he went

01:20:50.700 to like a religious school or something where it's just kind of like no one no one saw each

01:20:56.100 other naked ever so he never knew that he looked different from other boys and he didn't actually

01:21:00.200 realize that this was and he became a priest um and this is just kept not being a thing he needed

01:21:05.400 to think about but then he had an appendectomy and then when he got that done they were like

01:21:10.460 guess what you have ovaries and are an intersex person like chromosomally and so benitez that's

01:21:18.100 where he was like oh i thought like oh i should you know get this surgery but then decided not

01:21:23.700 to and he says i like this he's like well ray fines like you said in your speech isn't it time

01:21:28.560 for the vatican to have more uncertainty and more things that are neither this or that and

01:21:33.140 refines is like i don't know if i meant this because i'm trying yeah so then benitez goes

01:21:41.240 on to explain he chose to keep his female organs and i'm using he him pronouns because benitez

01:21:46.160 is a man and lives as a man um and defines himself as a man um benitez goes on to explain he chose

01:21:54.960 to keep these female organs stating i am as god made me which is like fair because if you're being

01:22:00.340 like god whatever it's like this god made you this way yeah you don't need to like yeah correct

01:22:07.320 mistakes with like that's why he didn't get the surgery um and so refines is like you know what 0.97

01:22:12.800 let's do this sure you're still like everyone else here sucks you're great first intersex pope let's 0.80

01:22:20.020 go or that we know of um and then um so he agrees to keep a secret and then he listens to the crowd's 0.99

01:22:28.000 cheer um the crowd's outside cheering benitez being elected as pope innocent the 14th and then

01:22:34.940 he looks outside and he sees this is i thought this is so interesting the very last shot of the

01:22:38.240 film is he sees some of the nuns just like leaving the building just to remind you like hey they were

01:22:45.740 there too like and maybe this new pope will bring a better deal for women in the church who knows

01:22:52.620 so you leave with kind of like a okay feeling of like this isn't so bad exactly they could have

01:23:01.280 chosen a much worse pope this was i think everybody else would have been a much worse pope

01:23:06.720 so only only good option yeah the only good option was this guy who it turns out surprise 0.80

01:23:12.800 um intersex person um and that was so this movie has done i'm just looking at the other

01:23:19.960 stuff that it says um and while you're doing that like i felt i was i went back and forth

01:23:26.600 on the intersex reveal at the end of this movie like i don't i don't love uh this person is not

01:23:32.600 cis as a surprise reveal most of the time like you got you got tricked into this person being 0.99

01:23:39.400 intersex but at the same time like fuck the catholic church so that part was satisfying 0.99

01:23:44.380 So I go back and forth on whether I'm here for that or not. 1.00

01:23:49.180 Yeah, exactly.

01:23:49.940 And I don't know what to think about that as a twist.

01:23:55.080 I think that the movie didn't present it as a bad thing or as a scary, horrifying monster thing.

01:24:04.620 Right. 0.50

01:24:06.040 But they did want to say, this person is intersex, and I hope everybody gasped when they heard that. 0.81

01:24:12.020 Yeah. 0.99

01:24:12.300 Okay.

01:24:12.540 Okay.

01:24:12.600 yeah yeah and but that's the book's twist ending also you know do you know when this book was

01:24:21.280 written recently recently okay um like within the last i don't know five years gotcha uh 2016

01:24:28.600 i think it was written around the same time shortly after the most recent pope was chosen

01:24:33.500 because that was when anyone gave a shit about conclaves that would be like yeah like two years 0.73

01:24:37.680 three years after probably yeah so i was just reading about the film because i was wondering 0.95

01:24:42.920 about you know the process they showed up a conclave and was it is that what it's like or

01:24:47.140 is it secret or um the person with the screenplay screenplay written by peter strawn um he

01:24:54.480 met with a cardinal doesn't say the name name redacted to discuss the logistics of the conclave

01:25:02.900 so he oh here's some stuff about the set design so the set designers took great care to replicate

01:25:10.400 the Sistine Chapel though they took some artistic license with the painting they made their set more

01:25:15.900 prison-like to enhance dramatic tension um costume designers visited uh several museums in Rome as

01:25:23.800 part of their research for the cardinal's red attire costume designer Lissy Crystal opted for

01:25:28.580 a hue used in 17th century cardinal vestments rather than one from modern day ones believing

01:25:34.580 it was far more beautiful and far easier for our eyes so she was doing the she did the job

01:25:39.420 did the work and that's why the robes look so beautiful because she didn't use the ones that

01:25:44.320 they use now that are probably just like polyester yeah who cares let's see so the film

01:25:50.400 it's doing fine it's doing very well it was really better than you would expect a papal

01:25:56.740 thriller that came out at the same time as wicked and gladiator 2 would do starring entirely 75 year

01:26:01.580 old men yes yeah so it sounds like it's it's doing just fine the reviews are all really good

01:26:09.260 people are talking about oh religious response hmm let's see this person the archdiocese of los

01:26:18.500 angeles magazine angelus and gel angelus complimented the actors performances but wrote

01:26:26.820 that the problem here is not that it is full of bias against the catholic church the problem is

01:26:30.980 that it is just plain bad okay i don't know how does it feel to be so wrong yeah the national

01:26:38.900 catholic reporter praised the film calling it a compelling and ecclesiastical call for a renewed

01:26:43.740 spiritual stewardship characterized by humility meekness and curiosity doubt um let's see in

01:26:50.360 christianity today they said though the film subtly advances progressive convictions subtly

01:26:57.400 subtly what this film does not have is anything that is subtle it gives cardinals of all

01:27:04.900 ideological persuasions equal opportunity to fall short i will say like this probably didn't get the

01:27:10.800 church is mad or something like like that this is not going to be a da vinci code situation

01:27:14.620 no they're not like they're not being like oh jesus had kids they're being like sometimes

01:27:19.560 priests are corrupt which and like not even all of them and not even that that really they were 0.99

01:27:24.880 they were pretty generous oh wow this shitty bishop said i'll say his name because he sucks 1.00

01:27:31.580 he's just some random bishop robert baron um he said just saw a conclave if you i'm gonna guess 0.99

01:27:39.320 he said this on X is my guess.

01:27:41.280 If you are interested in a film

01:27:42.540 about the Catholic church

01:27:43.460 that could have been written

01:27:44.120 by the editorial board

01:27:45.260 of the New York Times,

01:27:46.420 this is your movie.

01:27:47.720 The hierarchy of the church

01:27:48.820 is a hotbed of ambition,

01:27:50.240 corruption, and desperate egotism. 0.99

01:27:52.360 Conservatives are xenophobic extremists 0.98

01:27:54.160 and the liberals 0.99

01:27:54.760 are self-important schemers.

01:27:56.680 None can escape

01:27:57.420 this irredeemable situation.

01:27:59.220 The only way forward

01:27:59.940 is the embrace of the progressive buzzwords

01:28:01.700 of diversity, inclusion,

01:28:03.500 and the ultimate solution

01:28:05.440 is a virtue signaling cardinal

01:28:07.180 who takes the papal name of innocent 0.57

01:28:08.820 and who is intersex since it checks practically every woke box i'm sure it'll win a boatload of 0.92

01:28:14.880 awards but my advice is to run away from it as fast as you can virtue signaling what does he 0.81

01:28:20.240 think jesus is i know robber baron what do you think your church is based on do you not know

01:28:26.980 that the vatican is a hotbed of corruption and ambition you're a bishop well his name almost 0.99

01:28:34.400 literally is robber baron so probably he doesn't let's see oh this guy sucks anyway so it's like 0.98

01:28:41.960 what you wanted to see a movie about like oh everyone here is great who's gonna be the next

01:28:46.520 pope i don't know any of these nice people that's not a movie that's not even a 25 minute tv episode

01:28:54.760 like we're coming here for papal drama yeah let me have it and this movie does let me have it

01:29:01.580 And at the same time, it's like, oh, what did the Catholic...

01:29:04.920 I don't...

01:29:05.200 You know who I think would like this movie is the Pope. 0.99

01:29:07.840 Because I think he's an old man in this movie.

01:29:11.600 Yeah, he probably is the target audience.

01:29:14.100 Speaking of, this film has been commercially successful,

01:29:17.020 particularly among an older demographic.

01:29:19.300 According to box office data, nearly 50% of ticket buyers were over 55.

01:29:23.800 A demographic that has been less active in movie theaters since the COVID-19 pandemic.

01:29:28.380 The other 50% of ticket buyers were me and Anne.

01:29:31.100 Yep.

01:29:31.280 just going back yeah i think it was uh people who also enjoy rupaul's drag race because it's

01:29:40.480 the same kind of betrayal and drama and fancy capes yeah it was just such a good movie and

01:29:45.280 that was the thing like i i kept thinking during the whole time it was gonna come at the end that

01:29:49.980 benitez was like behind the suicide bombers and he made that happen because he was secretly

01:29:54.740 ambitious and that was his plan to become pope that's why that was headed but i appreciate that

01:29:59.700 it didn't do that i appreciate it didn't do john let's go poison the pope although i think he

01:30:03.140 probably did i think he probably did too the last person to see him alive um did he just get him a

01:30:10.940 little nescafe from the machine and put a little poison in the espresso i think so like i think

01:30:15.820 the movie part of what i appreciate was it was just so straightforward it was just kind of like 0.76

01:30:19.880 who's going to be the pope here's some complications this person sucks this person has a secret this

01:30:25.400 person's bad this person's a pope now the end like there wasn't anything like and guess what 0.94

01:30:30.080 the pope's not even really dead benitez is the pope with extreme plastic surgery like that also

01:30:35.580 would have been incredible i would have enjoyed that twist yeah but it didn't go yeah like it

01:30:41.120 went just far enough off the rails yeah but like the rails were always nearby yeah this did not

01:30:47.760 end up becoming a brotherhood of the wolf situation no no and i i think that that's lovely

01:30:53.380 that both you and i have found common ground in this perfect papal thriller conclave oh

01:31:01.040 i mean recommend it for all the elderly the less elderly the elderly the millennial women

01:31:10.220 etc anyone who likes a good senior citizen man thriller where they're all wearing robes

01:31:20.300 and speaking latin if the phrase the cardinal vaped ominously fills you with joy go see this

01:31:27.260 movie you will enjoy it so much yeah or even just just like and then they closed all the doors and

01:31:33.060 they had no contact with the outside world if if that fills you with joy like it it just all all

01:31:39.140 these tropes that i don't often see all put together and you're right and ray fine's character

01:31:45.660 he did have a real sort of like poro type yeah vibe like so if you like again like he's not

01:31:51.480 investigating a murder or is he but just the way that he's snooping right Isabella Rossellini

01:31:56.680 like flawless perfect goddess like she's perfect in that role yeah it was just I I like this movie

01:32:07.060 so much it was so good I'm so glad you enjoyed it I'm so glad that we could yell about it and

01:32:12.120 applaud in theaters separately but together about it spiritually together yes yeah no I was so

01:32:18.880 because you had seen it and I'm like I'm gonna see it and then I'm like oh no wicked is opening

01:32:22.820 it's like will this movie for the elderly still be in the theater luckily it was in the one very

01:32:30.120 small theater there was like me three other people it was great I had a half full theater

01:32:35.320 I went at like a seven o'clock on a Friday and I was like people it was all people in their 60s

01:32:43.020 and their wives or husbands but yeah you know and me and I went to an afternoon screening which

01:32:50.560 I feel like also appeals to seniors just a sec seniors I forgot I did this I need to um I had

01:32:58.200 said on the patreon I'm gonna be talking to Allison does anyone have any any questions for

01:33:01.920 Allison, and two people did. Oh, is the question, should I see conclave? Because I think we've

01:33:07.020 answered that one. Yeah, well, I didn't tell them what we would be talking about. I just said I'd

01:33:10.160 be talking to you. Okay, so here's the first question. Who says, do you have any advice for

01:33:15.780 someone considering studying slash pursuing a career similar to yours, i.e. creative pursuits

01:33:20.560 inspired by history? Words of caution or encouragement, tips and tricks. Curious to

01:33:25.200 know what you've found most difficult or most rewarding. I think the most useful advice somebody

01:33:30.080 gave me was to make sure that you're super interested in the subject that you decide

01:33:36.280 to write about rather than what's popular in the market right now, because by the time you finish

01:33:41.460 researching and drafting and redrafting and sending it around for edits and then eventually

01:33:47.340 getting it, if you get it into the publishing space, for me, that took like seven years.

01:33:51.860 And what was popular when I started doing that, that doesn't matter at that point.

01:33:57.500 And because you do have to spend so much time doing it and doing the research of it, like, make sure you're excited about it because your readers will know when you're really jazzed about something.

01:34:09.020 And if you're writing just because, like, I'm going to write a book about nurses in World War II because those sell, people will know that you're if you're writing it because it sells or because you're excited about it.

01:34:21.980 I would also say people are going to not like it.

01:34:25.600 And that's fine.

01:34:26.600 other people will like it. There's no way to have a creative life where everyone's happy with what

01:34:34.760 you're doing. So don't read your own reviews. I don't read my reviews anymore. That was a very

01:34:40.160 good decision for me. Except for your very good reviews that you got for your new book

01:34:44.540 in Publishers Weekly and Kirkus. I read the good reviews that people send to me in email that say,

01:34:50.980 look at this good review. You're going to like this one. And then I read those.

01:34:54.600 Oh, that's good.

01:34:55.180 That's a good way to get them.

01:34:56.460 Yeah.

01:34:56.580 Yeah.

01:34:57.060 Trust that if something out there is good,

01:34:58.980 a friend will send it to you.

01:35:00.360 And if something out there is mean,

01:35:01.920 your friends won't tell you.

01:35:04.320 That's good.

01:35:05.180 And then the other question

01:35:06.020 is from a person called Allison.

01:35:08.120 Hey.

01:35:08.600 Who is also in Chicago.

01:35:10.520 Oh, no.

01:35:10.940 So as a fellow Chicago Allison.

01:35:16.280 Hey.

01:35:17.860 This Allison would love to know

01:35:19.420 where you find inspiration.

01:35:21.420 Hmm.

01:35:21.820 well that's a great question right now because I'm trying to find inspiration to work on anything

01:35:26.620 and I don't have it yet so usually what I do is I just research mostly like what I like to do

01:35:34.300 I don't have a clear idea for what I want to work on next but I do have time periods and people and

01:35:39.560 like vibes that I'm interested in like lately I've gotten super interested in like turn of the 20th

01:35:45.940 century Chicago history and so what I'm doing is I'm just reading gangsters yeah yeah

01:35:51.820 Like, this is the book I told you about with the two rival brothel owners who were fighting with the Alderman. 0.99

01:35:57.220 Like, I think that shit is great. 0.97

01:35:59.320 So I'm just reading as much about that as I can, waiting for something to, like, hit me and, oh, I want to write about that. 1.00

01:36:05.740 Or there's a story in there that I want to dig into.

01:36:08.680 I usually find it like that.

01:36:10.680 And that's a little frustrating because I have to wait for something to show up.

01:36:15.480 And right now there isn't anything.

01:36:17.200 but you're waiting until it's something that like you said like that you are willing to

01:36:22.720 think about for several years yes i've i found a couple things that i thought oh that could be an

01:36:28.720 idea and then i started writing it and i got bored in two weeks i'm like oh that's not gonna

01:36:32.140 that's not gonna hold it's got to be something that an idea and a character that i feel like

01:36:37.260 oh i want to spend a lot of time with this person and this idea so well thank you allison those are

01:36:43.560 the two questions that were brought to me to bring to you i forget the what was like other

01:36:48.320 than vulgar peace theater i don't know the last thing we recorded lafayette yeah it was the lafayette

01:36:53.340 multi-part series and also the napoleon carolina brunswick yes yes we had some good conversations

01:37:00.300 yeah lafayette people are you know new listeners or whatever people catching up like people in the

01:37:06.440 u.s are so excited about lafayette because there's so many places so cool but there's so many places

01:37:10.640 called lafayette because he traveled all over and everyone he visited they called something after

01:37:15.080 him they sure did i didn't remember that but yeah there's a there's probably four or five lafayette

01:37:21.320 colleges there's a lafayette and probably all 50 states yeah nuts and he's like the one like

01:37:27.080 white man from that era who i don't mind things being called after yeah i'm like no go ahead man

01:37:32.620 he deserves it you do it was also helpful that he was in america at the time where we were

01:37:40.020 just starting and everything needed a name so true that's why there's so many washingtons

01:37:46.140 so confusing to me still um like the fact that there's washington state is different from

01:37:54.220 washington dc it's very silly it's very dc as a concept is silly because it's not even a state

01:38:01.060 wait is it like the vatican is it like it's is it like it's like its own thing in a another thing 0.77

01:38:09.740 i mean it's part of the u.s but it's sort of like like it yes and no is it we don't have a pope so

01:38:19.520 it is different that way but in the sense of like here's a city and i understand how that works and

01:38:24.180 within that city here's this other thing that's not part of it yeah i mean it's its own little

01:38:30.240 territory inside of like maryland and virginia yeah which isn't part of either of them but still

01:38:36.520 has to pay taxes sorry i don't know i was cool with that cool i knew as much about american

01:38:46.460 history as i ever did approximately three months ago and that's all left me now but yeah now you

01:38:53.740 just know as much about brunswick as any human being has ever known ever oh yeah

01:39:00.140 my book's due on february 1st woo oh my god that's so soon yeah i know yeah i know you're

01:39:09.880 gonna do it i have my word count but there's i keep finding new things that i want to add

01:39:16.600 into it i am surrounded by so many books right now um democracy when it's called

01:39:24.060 why do i have this nice nice and specific as a topic

01:39:27.460 what is this even um

01:39:33.520 democracy the long revolution oh yeah because i'm doing a lot of stuff with the mob

01:39:41.580 the mob the the pro caroline mob oh i thought you meant the mafia and i was like hang on a minute

01:39:50.800 oh no sorry i forgot that that's even a thing people say no when i say the mob i mean my

01:39:57.100 beloved working right not the not the godfather mob which i thought maybe caroline was involved

01:40:03.640 with which would have been fun she was in italy i don't know i had a threatening cannoli once or

01:40:08.900 twice she was in the vatican she she met some cardinals allison thank you so much like this

01:40:15.860 movie i was i couldn't i saw it and i couldn't wait to talk to you about it as evidenced by the

01:40:20.880 messages i sent you right after i saw it i think the message just said this is the greatest movie

01:40:26.380 of all time and then i think i was like when he found the papers behind the headboard exclamation

01:40:32.140 point and you were like exclamation point exclamation point thank you for talking about

01:40:37.720 this with me i there's no one else i would rather debrief this movie with and i really had to

01:40:43.000 debrief this movie yeah it's the thing there's it was so beautifully done there's the one scene

01:40:47.560 where the cardinals are coming inside and it's raining and the cameras above the umbrellas and

01:40:52.380 it's just all they're all wearing their red robes they're all holding like see-through umbrellas and

01:40:56.400 at first i didn't even know what i was looking at but it was beautiful and i'm like oh it's the

01:40:59.820 cardinals walking in the rain from above like it's just a beautifully shot movie too that's also just

01:41:05.140 like a bananas thriller yes gorgeous i love it listeners go see this before wicked kicks it out

01:41:12.940 theaters or i think it's gonna be streaming on peacock so you know it could be a cozy watch

01:41:18.020 at home over your christmas holidays with your elderly um male relatives type film that's true

01:41:22.700 this is a great grandpa bonding film watch this movie with the old man in your life or me or

01:41:27.940 allison honorary old men honorary old men thank you so much allison bye

01:41:42.940 The war is over and both sides lost.

01:41:54.160 Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust.

01:41:59.840 Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world,

01:42:04.020 praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

01:42:07.160 But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.

01:42:11.000 this is old school adventuring

01:42:13.460 at it's most cruel

01:42:14.800 your torch ticks down in real time

01:42:17.220 and when that flame dies

01:42:18.580 something else rises to finish the job

01:42:20.880 this is a brutal rules light nightmare

01:42:23.180 with a story that emerges organically

01:42:25.880 based on the decisions that the characters make

01:42:28.500 this is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s

01:42:30.920 and man, it is so good to be back

01:42:33.200 join the Glass Cannon podcast

01:42:34.500 as we plunge into the shadow dark

01:42:36.260 every Thursday night at 8pm Eastern

01:42:38.320 on youtube.com slash the glass cannon

01:42:40.600 with the podcast version dropping the next day.

01:42:43.980 See what everybody's talking about

01:42:45.280 and join us in the dark.

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Vulgar History - May 09, 2025

Movie Discussion： Conclave (2024)

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