Vulgar History - French Revolution： The Messy Bitches Who Brought Down the Monarchy

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00:00:47.720 Hello and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast. This season, 1.00

00:00:52.740 we've been looking at the French Revolution. And up until now, we've been looking at it through

00:00:57.720 the eyes of the women who were involved and in often cases trying to be more involved in the

00:01:02.960 French Revolution. And that's what I do in this podcast. I tell history through the stories of

00:01:07.540 women who were involved in it. But sometimes you just buck up against a piece of history where

00:01:11.780 women were just not involved in it. And it's important history that we all need to understand

00:01:16.240 to get to our ultimate goal, which is talking about Marie Antoinette. But it's just, there's

00:01:20.040 not women there. I'm like, I don't, how can I, I tried to research this myself, but my brain just

00:01:25.240 glazed over when I tried to read because it's just men writing paperwork, which is like

00:01:29.040 a phobia of mine at this point. But guess what? I know somebody who knows all about these people.

00:01:34.480 I wouldn't say that they love these people, but they love the stories of these people. And that

00:01:40.280 is Alison Epstein. Welcome, Alison. Hello. I feel like I've become your accidental

00:01:45.220 correspondent for men we can't avoid talking about on the show, which is fine by me.

00:01:50.320 Which is, you know, when you explain these stories of men to me, I can pay attention and I have a good time. When I try to read books about them. Actually, side note, I think I just saw you post something about reading books and the books assume you know facts that you don't actually know. I think, yeah, explain that.

00:02:08.180 i was reading a research book this morning and i posted on instagram i got so pissed off because

00:02:13.160 the author was just like and the thing that happened in spain after this event is of course

00:02:17.780 known by all my readers so i won't talk about it and i was like sir i don't know what happened in

00:02:22.220 spain write it down i don't know so i feel like a lot of the stuff about the men of the french

00:02:28.600 revolution is written by people who assume their readers already know a lot of these things and i'm

00:02:32.420 like i don't i'm so out of my depth i can't all that i know about some of these guys is i'm like

00:02:38.080 well, that's the one who, was that the one that, that the wife was her? Like I was trying to find

00:02:43.680 my way. I was really, I was overly stubborn about this. I was like, I will tell this story all

00:02:48.080 through women. And by the time I was looking at the wife of one of these guys, I was just,

00:02:52.240 her whole story was just like, I'm married to this guy and he's hot and it's great. Oh no,

00:02:55.960 I'm executed. I was like, how do I make that an hour long podcast episode?

00:03:03.040 And you really can't like, she's just, you can't, these guys, there were women in their lives,

00:03:07.120 but the women were just kind of like, that's my man. There's not a lot to their stories that is

00:03:12.680 known. I'm sure they were cool and interesting people. But these guys, you made me excited about

00:03:18.060 it by creating a graphic that I will share with the listeners. That is of the Spice Girls.

00:03:24.240 Yes, that's going to date me exactly for your listeners, because my formative pop culture years

00:03:28.900 were prime Spice Girls years. And in my opinion, there are five dudes in the French Revolution

00:03:35.460 that it's worth knowing and I think of them as the Spice Girls of the Revolution because I give

00:03:40.060 them each one adjective to help me remember which one is who and so I pitched this to Anne as let's

00:03:46.320 go through the five dudes of the revolution and spend the least amount of time as possible on all

00:03:51.640 of them and you can think about them as a power girl group from the 90s if that helps. It does

00:03:56.440 and it always helps and actually I what I appreciate with the Spice Girls everything but I

00:04:02.140 do you make him and they were like hi there's five of us we look visually distinct and we each

00:04:07.540 have one characteristic so in any video you're like that's baby that's ginger that's posh like

00:04:13.000 it took me a while to understand who posh was i'm just like wait which one is she like she's just

00:04:16.840 like wearing a black dress like what what adjective oh posh okay like that's more of a british british 0.96

00:04:22.200 adjective than like a north american one i'm just is she just like the sexy one i'm like well they're

00:04:26.540 all sexy but that really helps me but now like i'm into lately um various like k-pop groups and

00:04:33.520 when i watch them i'm just like which is who which is who and they're like changing wigs and changing

00:04:37.860 outfits throughout the video and i'm just like how many people are even in this band i can't tell

00:04:41.560 i need to have singular adjective that's what i need i need like one of you needs to have bangs

00:04:46.680 one of you needs to have short hair i'm like stop changing wigs this i want to support this band but

00:04:52.260 I can't tell how many this is also a problem with me hi welcome to vulgar history a podcast about

00:04:57.600 history but um with destiny's trial this was a major thing for me this is a major thing for me

00:05:03.860 and I didn't realize and it was because they kept changing who was in the band

00:05:07.320 and their videos from like the early 2000s were really like frenetically cut so I'm like blonde

00:05:12.740 hair short hair some others like I couldn't tell how many people were in the band and then they

00:05:18.780 switched out two people for two other people then anyway so like how many children does destiny have

00:05:25.320 i need to know i'm just like that's beyonce and that's kelly but i don't know who else is in this

00:05:30.680 band and i know this about you am because when we watched conclave i knew one reason you enjoyed

00:05:35.540 that movie is because everyone had weird glasses or a weird like facial expression or facial hair

00:05:41.180 that could tell them apart i was like okay that's how we're gonna conclave no conclave was such a

00:05:45.840 good example of a movie where it starred entirely like with like two exceptions like 70 year old

00:05:52.360 white men but they all had they made them look different like you can wearing the same thing

00:05:58.860 but you can do it so I again listeners maybe you're like me as well like you just who are

00:06:04.380 these guys like let's give them all a Spice Girls name they each have a thing this is really helpful

00:06:09.740 for me thank you you are so welcome and I want to say before we get into this that I am not an

00:06:14.780 expert in the French Revolution and you've had a lot of experts on the French Revolution on this

00:06:18.600 podcast. So I don't usually caveat myself, but like this is not a Leia Redmond Chang episode.

00:06:23.880 This is a me vibing with my boys episode. And that's the level of expertise I need. I don't

00:06:30.960 know if I got an expert in these five guys on if I could for dummies it enough that I would

00:06:37.720 understand it. But you know the level I need. I do. So to kick us off, I want to introduce our

00:06:43.820 five Spice Girls. And then I'm going to try the best that I can to tell this story, chronologically

00:06:50.140 focusing on what these five guys did and not make it take seven hours. That's really the goal that

00:06:55.680 I have. And I want to say that most of these guys we have mentioned at least once in the podcast so

00:07:00.700 far, they're kind of there doing stuff. Some of them we haven't, but two of them, especially we

00:07:05.860 have. Yes. So number one is, is the reason you asked me to come on and do this episode, which

00:07:10.740 is Robespierre we have to eventually talk about Robespierre and I call him fanatic spice I think

00:07:16.440 that will help us as we go along uh then we get to talk I'm so excited to talk to you about Jean

00:07:21.980 Paul Marat who I call trash spice um we've talked about him in your Charlotte Corday episode but 0.63

00:07:27.600 yeah last scene being stabbed in a bathtub wearing a turban but what did he do before that once you 1.00

00:07:33.780 get through this episode you're gonna be like yes that was the right choice congrats to Charlotte 1.00

00:07:37.640 Corday for picking the right one um there is next Camille Desmoulins who I call uh chaos spice

00:07:44.820 because what is this boy doing I don't know Camille Desmoulins is one who I was looking at his

00:07:50.700 wife to maybe do an episode about but she was mostly just kind of like that's my man love him

00:07:56.340 oh no I'm executed the end so I only know about him through when I was researching his wife which

00:08:02.480 is just kind of like she's like love him I ride for this man and it's like that's what I know

00:08:07.540 He inspired that in One Woman.

00:08:09.700 Two, two, because I write for this band also.

00:08:12.760 Number four is Georges Danton, who has come up and I think is on your bingo card.

00:08:16.800 And he is Murder Spice.

00:08:19.000 He is.

00:08:19.860 Yes.

00:08:20.440 Georges Danton is also has the is a human with a face of a pit bull spice.

00:08:26.220 And we're going to talk about why.

00:08:27.640 He's got a real distinctive face.

00:08:30.080 He does.

00:08:30.660 He does.

00:08:31.480 And finally is Sanju, who I don't think has come up yet. 0.99

00:08:35.040 But he is Posh Spice. 1.00

00:08:36.300 He's just Posh Spice. 0.85

00:08:37.540 so he's joining the party he's the hot one yes okay so starting us in the story of these five

00:08:45.060 men you have to start with mara because he's like 10 to 15 years older than everybody else

00:08:49.680 so he's sort of on the outside of the group but he does part of it part of it is kind of like

00:08:54.860 getting the spice girls together as a band it's like here's just like for them for instance i

00:08:59.680 think there was an ad in the classifieds being like starting a band and then these five women

00:09:03.380 from different places came together and they became the spice girls this is more of a

00:09:07.540 gradually, people sort of like came together in a style of, I can't believe I'm going to say this,

00:09:13.800 America's Founding Fathers.

00:09:15.560 Much like that. Yes.

00:09:17.140 Just kind of like, we're just some guys, various different ages. We like to wear wigs.

00:09:21.700 And we just kind of like come together philosophically.

00:09:25.740 We're vibing.

00:09:26.700 Some of us are older than others. And this one is older than the others.

00:09:30.000 Yes. So we've got Murat, who sort of gets the revolutionary stuff kicked off first. He was

00:09:35.820 born in the 1740s and then as early as like the 1770s he's out there on the pamphlet circuit

00:09:41.880 writing all of his his spicy pamphlets and treatises about liberty and rule of the people

00:09:48.320 over the king all of that good stuff in the 1770s yeah early early days yes uh here his first book

00:09:56.280 was called les chines de l'esclavage which translate to the chains of slavery it's not

00:10:00.660 about slavery. It's about white people having not rights about the king because he is the way that 0.63

00:10:06.600 he is. But he was pretty popular in the early days. People who loved Rousseau loved Marat.

00:10:15.140 The listeners can't see the face that Anne just made when I said Rousseau. And I do want to say

00:10:20.220 in defense of Rousseau, like the Republican stuff, not so bad. The naturalism of all of it

00:10:27.720 extends to having a king rule over people is not natural we all have rights in nature and that's

00:10:35.260 kind of nice the sexism of it's bad but there are good things in there also somewhere okay okay

00:10:42.640 russo is just i haven't delved deep into russo just every time he shows up in a story

00:10:47.620 it's because some of his misogynistic stuff is coming up and somebody is using it to like

00:10:53.620 be mean about Marie Antoinette or something. And I do have to tell you, as someone who studied the

00:10:58.880 French Revolution from the dude's point of views, the sexism never comes up. I learned that from

00:11:03.580 listening to this podcast. I was like, oh, okay. That's all I know about him. Like, I just feel

00:11:07.940 like he's really, he's the John Knox of the French Revolution. Yeah. So it's funny who cares about

00:11:13.500 what part of his philosophy, because everyone's just like, oh yeah, Rousseau, the hero of the

00:11:17.040 revolution. And I'm like, oh, okay. I guess I learned something new every day. I want to say

00:11:21.440 there is a listener of this podcast who was sharing with me on the discord actually and

00:11:27.600 with everyone on the discord this graphic novel about like the history of women feminism and it

00:11:33.440 was really cute and it's really good and there's like lots of people in it who we know from the

00:11:36.420 podcast and at the end there's sort of like an opposite of awards are given out to like who is

00:11:41.060 the shittiest man and you know first place was Rousseau all right in this whole book of like

00:11:49.140 the pantheon like second place was aristotle first place was russo that's impressive yeah

00:11:54.880 it really shows i was not reading the right books good to know but this really shows the difference

00:11:58.900 between like women's history like social history like i read about and like standard normal history

00:12:04.880 that is presented to people in schools it really does okay so mara was born in switzerland i think

00:12:12.380 Yes. But he moves to Paris in 1776. And because this is the 18th century, he has like four jobs, none of which he's really qualified for. He's a journalist. He's a medical doctor. He is an experimenting scientist trying to figure out electricity. He's friends with Ben Franklin. Like, I don't know what this man is doing, but he's very famous and he is shooting with everybody.

00:12:37.180 You might get to this, but I feel like some of these things in medical experience especially might lead to his debilitating skin condition that he later has.

00:12:45.560 Was he putting his hands on things and not washing them? Maybe. I don't know.

00:12:50.420 Was he covering his body in lead to be like, let's see what this does? Who knows?

00:12:55.440 You know, that seems like a thing he would do.

00:12:58.540 He's fighting with the Académie de Séance for basically a decade.

00:13:03.580 And just like nobody likes him.

00:13:05.580 he's a real aggressive abrasive man who's sometimes right but you hate when he's right 0.98

00:13:11.480 because you don't want to agree with him because he sucks so that's mara okay okay and he is chaos 0.99

00:13:17.380 spice yeah he is garbage spice garbage spice garbage because he's a little bit like i i don't 0.99

00:13:23.040 want to make this like physical but i also don't want to be in the same room as him he freaks me 0.93

00:13:27.480 out yeah like that yeah okay and then we're getting into sort of the core of the spice girls 0.70

00:13:33.920 who are showing up around this time,

00:13:35.580 and that's Robespierre, Desmoulins, and Danton.

00:13:38.140 They all kind of show up together at the same time.

00:13:40.260 In Paris, just in the salons,

00:13:43.760 just being like, hey, we're angry men,

00:13:45.580 and we all listen to Joe Rogan, and yeah.

00:13:48.720 Sure. Robespierre and Desmoulins

00:13:51.540 actually were friends in college.

00:13:53.980 They went to university together in Paris.

00:13:55.920 They both moved in from the countryside,

00:13:58.480 and they made friends with each other

00:14:00.560 for being like the most into russo and the roman empire of everybody else at university so they

00:14:06.380 were best it's interesting like this will probably come up several times in this but the roman empire

00:14:11.940 of it all like it's just funny that people nowadays are so into the roman empire and people

00:14:16.300 then a days we're so into the roman empire and i recently just re-released the episode about

00:14:21.880 elagabalus where i where i was just kind of like reminder to everybody like the roman empire

00:14:25.880 was chaotic and shitty also it was not it was not centuries of amazingness the roman empire i want

00:14:36.040 to tell you what i know about camille de moulin because this this might come up now so he so his

00:14:41.660 future wife lucille the person who i was going to do an episode about but in fact her life can

00:14:45.940 be summarized in two sentences she was like from a wealthy family and they fell in love at what's

00:14:50.720 that there's like a garden in paris it's called like the great garden or something it's like a

00:14:55.560 famous garden there's a bunch of gardens i'm not sure which it's called like le grand jordan or

00:15:00.880 something really basic and it's apparently very famous so they met there they fell in love she's

00:15:05.940 like i just met this hot guy can i marry him and his her parents were like no because you're really

00:15:10.920 rich and he's not and so they're and she read a lot of novels and she was just like i just want

00:15:15.640 to have this grand romance like in my novels and she loved him so i'll let you know when that

00:15:20.840 changes but well actually yes i will say it does it she eventually gets permission to marry him

00:15:28.640 when he makes a name for himself oh oh i see okay and robespierre is the best man at their wedding

00:15:33.760 oh cute i also have a a private theory there's some historical speculation that demoulin was

00:15:40.840 bisexual and i think it's because he was in love with robespierre that is unsubstantiated by anybody

00:15:46.020 but me but you'll see how this all plays out and we can talk about it later yeah yeah okay

00:15:50.620 yeah but okay so we've got we've got robespierre we've got de moulin are like on the scene just

00:15:55.500 being they they both train to be lawyers because they're both like big talkers and they're they're

00:16:00.500 they love sharing an opinion um but neither of them made it as lawyers robespierre because he

00:16:05.740 wanted to spend all of his time in the salons talking about justice and like political theory

00:16:10.040 and de moulin because he had a stutter so he got nervous in court and he couldn't

00:16:14.140 deliver his uh his speeches and so he became a journalist and then as now journalists don't

00:16:20.940 make any money so he's broke like that's probably why his wife's family were not in favor of this

00:16:26.420 he's just like out there writing for the local community newspaper doing his best and then

00:16:31.840 there's danton who comes to paris at the same time he's not friends with them he's he's a real

00:16:37.680 a real guy do a real like listeners do an image search for danton like he is like you're gonna

00:16:45.660 explain to me what happened to his face because something happened to his face it's like no shade

00:16:49.100 to people who were born with faces like this but he looks like he was kicked in the face

00:16:52.660 by an ox like his face is just like smush did you read my notes before we got on this episode

00:16:59.720 was that it was he was he was kicked in the face by a bull and then stampeded by a herd of pigs

00:17:04.880 as a child that's what he looks like that's that's it looks like that yeah like because i was thinking

00:17:09.780 of something that was like stronger than being punched in the face i was picturing like a hoof

00:17:13.080 but not like a horse's hoof like something bigger and then he got smallpox because it was the 1800s

00:17:19.040 so like this man his life started out with a bang and none of it went well for him like the first

00:17:23.420 five years there's a movie about him starring gerard de perdue which i feel is like the only

00:17:30.180 possible casting yeah you couldn't you couldn't pick anybody else ron perlman maybe maybe but

00:17:36.500 maybe maybe so danton i'm intrigued in him just because when you look at the it's like when people

00:17:42.000 are like oh my gosh this cat looks so much like this person when you see a picture of danton he

00:17:46.740 has the face of like a pitbull like he it's like you can pay for portraits of like take your cat

00:17:52.800 and like put them in like tutor costume or something it's like they took the face of a

00:17:56.480 pitbull and put it in french revolution clothes and that's danton's face and i love it and i'm

00:18:01.300 obsessed because so many people in portraits just look like oh that's just some guy it's just a dude

00:18:05.240 i can always spot when it's danton you sure can yes okay so he comes to the town what's his vibe

00:18:10.740 he is loud he's abrasive he's got loud opinions and he's gonna shout you down from the rooftops

00:18:18.220 do you know he's tall he's also tall i feel like he is he's like sort of like a big those football

00:18:24.920 guys who like their job is just to stand there and people like bounce off of them like he's that

00:18:28.880 sort of physique i think the the body type that i'm imagining here is the governor from disney's

00:18:35.660 pocahontas you know where you're just like that's a that's an upside down triangle of a man that's

00:18:40.880 sort of that's sort of the downtown of it all yes okay so he and he's married with kids you said

00:18:45.300 yes which they got along great which is wild to me but i'm just picturing his kids somehow with

00:18:51.380 of fate that his kids are like puppies somehow okay yeah yeah and then i just have to introduce

00:18:56.720 the last guy which is san just uh he's a decade younger than robespierre 20 years younger than

00:19:02.380 marat so for the beginning of all of this he is a literal child uh and he spends most of his time

00:19:08.620 not he doesn't come to paris till later so for the first little bit of the revolution 0.90

00:19:12.720 including him in the story lets us see like okay what the fuck was happening outside of paris

00:19:17.240 okay okay so we've got like just to recap for myself there's five people all together so we've 0.95

00:19:21.840 got marat who's older and covered in sores presumably from his science experiments

00:19:27.120 we've got rose pierre and we've got demoulin boyfriends yes failed out of law school then we've

00:19:35.760 got um danton kicked in the face and then we've got sans juice but he's just a little kid off 0.88

00:19:42.700 He's a kid, but he's also a dirtbag kid. So like a couple of sentences about his childhood, and then we'll jump into the French Revolution. But like, he once led a rebellion at his middle school and tried to burn the school down because he wanted more justice for the students. 0.75

00:19:58.180 this is exactly how i imagine all the french revolution people were his children this is like

00:20:04.100 market ladies as little girls were doing this too i think yes yes yes uh he tried to run away from

00:20:10.100 home in 1786 after his girlfriend got married to somebody else and allegedly when he packed

00:20:15.480 to run away from home he brought two guns and a bag full of his mom's silverware

00:20:19.580 and then he got arrested and sent to 18th century uh juvenile detention yes

00:20:25.960 and he spent a year there so he's a real a real problem kid he's just like really just waiting

00:20:34.400 to grow into being like what a perfect person to grow up right into the french revolution because

00:20:40.040 he's been he's got those vibes pre-revolution he just has this revolution energy and just

00:20:44.520 nowhere to put it exactly and then the last thing to say you said it already we'll just emphasize

00:20:48.900 it again because all of my sources do he is so hot okay every source is just okay first of all

00:20:55.520 you do have to hand to San Jose.

00:20:57.440 He was really hot, though.

00:20:59.940 I don't, and I will tell you,

00:21:01.220 I've looked at portraits,

00:21:02.240 and I'm like, yeah, okay, sure.

00:21:04.820 For it being an 18th century person,

00:21:07.600 I can see it.

00:21:09.200 I get it.

00:21:10.020 It's interesting.

00:21:11.060 I'm always interested

00:21:11.880 when every historical source,

00:21:13.600 like Madame DuBerry,

00:21:15.400 everyone is just like, 0.81

00:21:16.880 like, va-va-voom,

00:21:18.260 like people are losing their minds.

00:21:19.380 And you see the portraits,

00:21:20.120 you're like, she looks fine.

00:21:21.560 She's like, I guess.

00:21:23.600 But it somehow just doesn't

00:21:25.280 always translate to portraiture. Yes. Someone's hotness. It's true. I think our, I think our

00:21:30.180 standards change. I think we're not used to portraits. And I think also it helps when

00:21:34.100 they're like standing up in, in the legislature yelling. Like, I think that's hot for French 0.99

00:21:39.180 people as well. So that's true. That's true. It's sort of like, um, a few weeks ago, listeners,

00:21:45.400 we had the episode about Gouverneur Morris, the American founding father, fuck boy. Yes. And I, 0.99

00:21:51.740 when like the episode came out and then I posted a picture of him on Instagram and one of the

00:21:54.540 listeners was like this is the guy who is doing all those things you were saying and it's like

00:21:59.540 yeah he looks like your friendly like your dad's retired golf friend where it's just like but he

00:22:05.840 was apparently so charismatic but he's also like six foot nine which i think also helps especially

00:22:10.140 in olden times yeah yeah yeah no one had ever seen a tall person and he had a peg leg which was like

00:22:14.960 oh i'm so in okay so it's just like a a young radical growing into his hotness yes precisely

00:22:23.680 Okay, so that's who we're talking about. And now we can talk about what they do during the French Revolution. I'm jumping to the estates, the general estates, which is the whole nobility, clergy, everybody else debacle.

00:22:38.960 Can you briefly explain that?

00:22:40.920 Because market ladies weren't really there, so I didn't talk about it a lot.

00:22:45.520 Yes, I could do this at the very highest of terms, which is this was sort of the initial

00:22:52.200 kicking off of the political side of the French Revolution, because everything had been going

00:22:56.660 so badly, you know, with the economy and with harvests and everything.

00:23:01.200 And so the king knows, OK, we have to do something.

00:23:03.740 We have to make some kind of concessions to the people who are extremely angry.

00:23:07.980 Let's call the Estates General, which is the political body that had been in France since the Middle Ages that was organized into the three main kinds of society, the nobility, the clergy and the third estate, which is everybody who's not in those two things.

00:23:22.600 So it's sort of like calling an annual general meeting of all of France.

00:23:27.280 Yes.

00:23:27.720 Let's just get all the people together and like, let's let's do some votes.

00:23:31.920 Let's make what are we going to do?

00:23:33.160 What are we going to do to fix this?

00:23:34.460 How can we adjust taxes in the harvest to make this work?

00:23:37.840 Except every one of the three estates gets one vote

00:23:41.900 and the nobility and the clergy all was voted together.

00:23:45.020 So really the third estate was just showing up as a formality

00:23:47.620 and people really-

00:23:48.540 Is this where they were meeting in the tennis court

00:23:50.360 or that's something else?

00:23:51.640 This is that, yes.

00:23:52.920 Because they could only,

00:23:53.900 the tennis court was the only place big enough

00:23:55.440 for all these people.

00:23:56.120 So they had to meet in the tennis court?

00:23:57.860 It was that and also sort of

00:23:59.560 because they could bar the doors

00:24:00.440 and have secret talks at the time.

00:24:02.440 But yes.

00:24:02.760 So there's Marat and Robespierre both go.

00:24:07.840 it the third is the estates general they're both participants but which estate are they uh i believe

00:24:13.940 the third and none of these people are particularly noble and certainly none of them are priests so

00:24:19.300 there's nobility clergy and then kind of everybody else and they're on there and you can go as like

00:24:23.380 a deputy to your home city or your province wherever okay so that marat robespierre both

00:24:28.240 there okay and robespierre like is an absolute sensation at this he's great at speaking he is

00:24:33.920 he can shut down a room with his political oratory and everyone's like this guy is really something

00:24:39.180 we should listen to what he has to say marat is a little bit more old man yells at cloud

00:24:44.320 at this time he's sort of like he's a really really radical even at the super early stage

00:24:50.020 of the game yeah um he's and you're gonna hate me for doing this but he's a member of the cordelier

00:24:55.160 which is unfortunately like we've talked on this podcast so far about the girondins and the

00:25:02.500 jacobins yeah sort of like the two wings of revolutionary political parties yes this is

00:25:10.120 unfortunately there's a third one i have come across the cordeliers i probably called it the

00:25:16.940 cordeliers um but that's like a club where people met or something yeah just like all of them it was

00:25:23.480 in the uh cordelier neighborhood i think which is what it was named was it like that was where

00:25:29.600 it started and then that bisected into the girondins and the jacobins or is it a sort of thing

00:25:34.920 so the cordeliers were the original radicals they were the ones who were like we're in

00:25:40.080 we're going we're gonna overthrow the king and kill everybody that's sort of where murat was

00:25:44.780 on day one okay and as the jacobins started a little bit more moderate in the very beginning 0.56

00:25:52.740 and as the revolution went on the jacobins sort of split halfway through to the ones who said i

00:25:59.860 want to be a bit more moderate i don't think we should kill everybody and no actually i do think 0.94

00:26:04.280 we should kill everybody that's the girondins and that's the girondins who went to the don't 0.97

00:26:08.780 kill everybody yeah and then the jacobins who split off and met up with the cordeliers 1.00

00:26:12.620 that's the mountain that's the mountain montagnaro that's sort of the the terror of it all so the 0.83

00:26:19.300 cordeliers are like pre-terror terror okay so like if we're just going in stages like this is we all

00:26:25.040 we have right now is just the cordeliers they're like hey we're the guys who want to change things

00:26:29.260 dramatically in a revolution-like way right we're all one faction for now and then you have your

00:26:36.140 royalists who are like please don't those are sort of your factions yeah yeah okay so the uh

00:26:42.800 estates general goes on the the tennis court oath happens which is the big declaration that you know

00:26:48.520 we're going to kick off the revolution sort of essentially i'm way oversimplifying all of this

00:26:54.840 but robespierre is one of the ones sort of in the room coming up with the declaration of the rights

00:26:59.120 of man and all of that stuff he's very leading edge of all of this yeah um and danton are not

00:27:06.560 there because they are not important enough to be that's kind of one of my questions which was

00:27:09.720 kind of like how do these guys who just kind of like i'm sure there's lots of other radicals in

00:27:13.240 the city but like why did these guys end up being in charge and i can see for robespierre it's

00:27:16.800 because he just made a sensation at the speech.

00:27:18.580 Everyone's like, let's follow him.

00:27:19.700 He's good at speeches.

00:27:21.060 Yes.

00:27:21.580 It really was a charisma.

00:27:23.560 And he was like just well enough positioned socially

00:27:26.660 that he could get into that room.

00:27:28.680 He was from a decently well-off family

00:27:30.760 out in the provinces.

00:27:32.620 And so he was like, okay, I can go to this.

00:27:34.340 I can speak.

00:27:35.600 I can cause a storm.

00:27:36.840 Everyone will be like about me.

00:27:38.760 Okay.

00:27:39.120 And throughout his whole life,

00:27:40.660 which we're going to like, thank God,

00:27:42.680 get to his death because...

00:27:44.660 It's a real saga.

00:27:46.800 But throughout his whole life, that was where he sort of like got more and more power was because he was so persuasive, his charisma, like he drew people to him because he could speak so well.

00:27:57.100 Yes.

00:27:57.640 Yeah.

00:27:59.880 So de Moulin was not invited to the Estates General, but this is the moment where he becomes the most important person in the French Revolution for five minutes and bless him for that.

00:28:10.900 Because in the aftermath of the Estates General, there are a bunch of foreign mercenaries who are called into Paris sort of to keep peace.

00:28:20.620 You can imagine it's the National Guard being called up before France really had the National Guard.

00:28:25.440 And this, of course, is making everybody in Paris super on edge.

00:28:28.680 This is amping up the tensions.

00:28:30.940 Nobody in America can relate to this at all right now.

00:28:33.100 I was just going to say it's not all things are happening in America.

00:28:36.740 No, not at all.

00:28:37.560 No.

00:28:37.640 So de Moulin is seeing this happening and he is so hype on revolutionary fervor that he hops up on a cafe table in the streets of Paris and he gives the speech, doesn't stutter at all.

00:28:49.880 He's so carried away by the spirit.

00:28:52.280 And he says, you see what the king is doing, dismissing all of these ministers who are on our sides and bringing in soldiers to keep the peace.

00:29:00.120 This is going to be another St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, known to Anne as the Queen Margot massacre with all of the naked bodies in it.

00:29:07.640 from the film queen marco yeah yeah saint berthelman's day massacre was was i would say

00:29:12.860 the previous time that paris's streets ran with rivers of blood and they will again but

00:29:20.080 not just yes this is yes this climbing on table moment though this is where he got because of

00:29:26.600 that that's where his wife's family was like okay you can marry him he he climbed to the table like

00:29:31.080 we like the les mis energy of that a musical not about the french revolution um but this is big

00:29:37.000 Les Mis energy. Just this like young guy climbing on a table. Yeah. Yes. Everybody in the street is

00:29:42.420 listening to him. They're like, that's a great point. We have to do something. It turns into

00:29:46.780 mob. Mob turns into violence. Violence turns into Storming of the Bastille. Des Moulins leading the

00:29:52.360 way with two pistols and a bayonet. I like that's him. And he never does anything quite that dramatic

00:29:59.600 again. But I love him. And I love that he has that moment. Can we talk about Storming of the Bastille

00:30:03.620 for a minute because as i think i know now that was so the best like the royal family lived off

00:30:10.200 in versailles which is like not in paris um the best deal was like one jail right it was like a

00:30:16.220 jail that was in paris and it was one of the only buildings it was sort of like the royal family

00:30:21.260 was in charge of it so they're like well we can't storm versailles too far away we'll storm the

00:30:26.160 best deal and i think they wanted to get the weapons from there that's why they stormed it

00:30:30.440 It was partly that it was a combination prison and armory.

00:30:34.240 So great place to storm if you're starting a popular revolution.

00:30:37.480 But also, I believe it was one of the only prisons in Paris where the king would would send somebody who had been arrested sort of without trial on like a royal.

00:30:50.160 Yeah, there's like some royal thing.

00:30:52.500 So the storming the best.

00:30:53.720 So the Estates General was kind of the like paperwork based beginning of the French Revolution. 0.99

00:30:57.520 but the storming of the best deal is the real like market ladies like heads on pikes like 0.52

00:31:02.920 this is the big dramatic moment and the tennis court oaths is the uh we signed a lot of things

00:31:09.860 and made a lot of speeches part of it yeah okay so okay yeah so de moulin is there

00:31:13.760 leading the way yeah yeah uh marat claims he was there he also claims that he personally

00:31:21.000 overthrew an entire company of german soldiers and spoke to them so eloquently they all had to

00:31:26.140 lay down their weapons and they joined the revolution. A story substantiated by nobody

00:31:30.640 but Marat. So that sort of tells you what he's doing. So the Bastille has fallen and Marat is

00:31:38.760 gaining more and more notoriety as a journalist and a rabble rouser and a weird man who yells

00:31:46.600 about revolution. This is when he starts The Friend of the People, the Amidupo, the newspaper

00:31:51.860 that he writes and basically the entire point of that newspaper is this person is a counter

00:31:57.080 revolutionary nobody believes in the revolution as much as i do and you should make sure that you

00:32:02.760 overthrow anybody who's not as orthodox as the revolution is he like i'm just trying to think

00:32:09.200 like today like it feels very much like people today i don't know if this is like if you know

00:32:15.180 2025 marat would have a podcast or a youtube he's kind of like joe exotic you know like

00:32:21.840 yeah like he would have a youtube show kind of like joe exotic i think would be what he would

00:32:27.640 be doing he would also be on x canceling people i think yes in the comments with a lot of hashtags

00:32:34.980 um just kind of like using it badly anyway it just his energy feels a lot like people today

00:32:42.640 where it's kind of like well for him we'll talk about him but you know he was just old man yells

00:32:46.460 at cloud for like 20 years and suddenly the revolution that he always wanted to happen is

00:32:49.780 happening so he's there with them but it's like you didn't cause this sir and you're also but he

00:32:56.580 like thinks it is yeah yeah he's uh you can imagine he's making a lot of enemies at this time

00:33:03.220 because he's accusing everybody yeah of being the the antichrist essentially like his paranoia

00:33:08.860 and psychosis just suddenly coincided with the revolution so it seems like they're the same

00:33:14.000 thing but actually they're not the same thing it's what i like to think about is like mara would

00:33:18.540 have done great during the terror this is not the terror this is like three years before that he's

00:33:23.360 just over there having his paranoid delusions sort of by himself yeah yeah yeah and so he

00:33:29.220 repeatedly has to flee paris because he's making all of these enemies he runs away to london

00:33:34.120 for a little while between 1789 and 1792 he repeatedly goes into hiding sometimes hiding

00:33:41.800 in the sewers of paris just like is this escape routes which is my favorite thing i learned full

00:33:49.680 researching for this in the sewers i'm familiar with the sewers of paris from the movie musical

00:33:55.820 les miserables which i made you watch i'm so sorry which is based on the book les miserables

00:34:00.720 which i understand has a lot of writing in it about the sewers of paris sure does now nowadays

00:34:05.560 you can go for tours in these underground tunnels of paris but he was in actual sewage

00:34:12.300 when he's like i mean they're like big old tunnels so he did he was not like swimming

00:34:18.640 through a pipe full of stuff but yes one small step off of the little embankment and you were

00:34:24.840 falling into a river of sewage. I think we're also, I am personally developing more of an

00:34:30.700 understanding about his later debilitating skin condition. Yes, this did not help, I would imagine.

00:34:36.220 Living in the sewer, I will, as a brief anecdote, I grew up in Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is a city

00:34:42.640 like Paris on a body of water. And for a very long time, most of my life, raw sewage just was

00:34:50.180 pumped out into the harbor of Halifax such that growing up there everyone knew don't go in that

00:34:55.780 water like people who I knew who took like sailing lessons and stuff they'd be like oh yeah no we got

00:35:01.240 like this rash like you would just like get this rash on your limbs from like being adjacent to

00:35:07.220 the water if someone fell in like they would get a whole round of like inoculations like yes

00:35:12.200 and you were not getting that in 1789 no i don't think they i i don't know since i moved away from

00:35:20.100 there so within the last 15 years they um did a whole thing where they like cleaned the harbor

00:35:25.340 they're like now it's safe to go in and the mayor put on a wetsuit and he's like look i'm going

00:35:28.940 swimming in the harbor and everyone everyone was just like oh no don't do that don't don't do that

00:35:34.360 i think like the sewage system it is functioning now tourists like go in the water but everyone

00:35:39.500 who's from there is just like oh no oh no this is how i feel every time i see someone kayaking

00:35:44.040 in the chicago river i'm like get out of there don't do that but getting back to paris this was

00:35:49.160 like when the olympics were there they did the triathlon through the seine and it was like everyone

00:35:53.060 got like or whatever it was and that's like the scent like marat is like in the sewer it's not

00:36:01.940 like yes 75 sewage that's where the sewage goes just and it's the sewage from like olden days

00:36:09.180 so it's got like dysentery like and i'm getting this one other thing i want to tell you at this

00:36:15.620 point is like fun fact about robespierre robespierre was an extreme germaphobe and clean freak

00:36:22.320 he hated like marat he did marat like just smells of sewer you know yes and like robespierre hated

00:36:31.820 marat for a lot of reasons but i have to feel like the ode to sewer really did not help the

00:36:37.440 overall vibe yeah okay so marat is just like making so many enemies he's living in the sewer

00:36:41.820 but you know what i think something like that with sort of a persecution complex to actually

00:36:45.800 be persecuted he's just like yeah yeah he's like finally i've been for this my whole life

00:36:50.140 yeah actually being persecuted amazing yeah yeah okay yeah so he's writing his newspaper and uh

00:36:57.640 Desmoulins is trying to set up his own newspaper at this time.

00:37:00.320 He had been a starving journalist before the revolution really kicked off.

00:37:04.320 And now he's the starving journalist who led the storming of the Bastille.

00:37:08.460 So now everyone is like super excited to read the stuff that he's got to say.

00:37:12.160 Yeah.

00:37:12.740 And his wife, Lucille, is just like, that's my man.

00:37:16.240 Like, again, to reinsert the story that is not a story.

00:37:19.200 She just supports him.

00:37:20.420 From the sidelines.

00:37:21.240 Yes. 0.98

00:37:21.640 She's just like, hell yeah. 0.96

00:37:23.100 Yeah. 1.00

00:37:23.540 That's what she's doing.

00:37:24.100 He joins the Cordilliers alongside Marat.

00:37:26.500 So now they're working sort of together.

00:37:29.400 And Desmoulins is making enemies as well, but not as many as Murat because he's not as gross.

00:37:35.000 I only bring this up because we mentioned before we started recording that the French Revolution is full of these wonderful little one-liners.

00:37:41.960 People were just saying, cutting sassy things the whole time.

00:37:44.360 and uh one of uh des moulins uh enemies referred to him in the newspaper as l'anon des moulins 0.59

00:37:51.880 which translates to it's a pun on his name and it translates to the little jackass of the windmills

00:37:57.040 which i think is great these guys you know like i have lots of feelings about these guys but they

00:38:04.080 they were there with a with a quip yes they did have that yeah so this is about when danton becomes

00:38:11.860 friends with Desmoulins and Marat. So this is sort of the trio of people who were yelling,

00:38:17.060 having opinions, sometimes smelling like the sewer. Finally, finally, just the angry men

00:38:23.260 Avengers assemble. This is the heyday of the Cordeliers. They're like, let's go. We're right.

00:38:29.980 Yeah, yeah. Saint-Juice is still a teenager, just to remember him. But now that the revolution is

00:38:35.680 sort of picking up in the provinces, he also becomes like the head of his local branch of

00:38:41.460 the national guard like boy scout exactly and he's such a zealot about it people are like look at 0.97

00:38:48.800 look at this 17 year old absolute fucking nut job at one point when he's on duty he takes this 0.97

00:38:55.660 anti-revolutionary pamphlet that like a royalist had written and plunges it into the fire and then 0.99

00:39:01.560 holds his hand into the fire while holding it it's burning and he's just like and this is how

00:39:06.940 dedicated i am to the revolution and you have to imagine his mom is just like please calm down

00:39:12.880 bro but he's ready he wants to be noticed this is also like you know we see enthusiasm like this

00:39:20.860 among today's 17 year olds about various things i mean often it's tiktok dances but like

00:39:26.380 yes this is his tiktok dance yeah yeah yeah so that brings us to 1790 or so and this is when

00:39:37.480 robespierre starts to assume more like political power in the governing bodies of the revolution

00:39:44.480 he becomes uh the president of the jacobin club and he becomes a member of the national assembly

00:39:50.920 which is sort of like what they had for a functioning government right at this exact

00:39:56.060 moment um and he's very popular um he's ladies love cool rose pierre yes he's very charismatic

00:40:06.140 he's very clean he's well dressed i know i'm just like they don't have bras but like they're

00:40:11.200 throwing i don't know what they have they're throwing their revolutionary cockades probably

00:40:15.640 their wooden clogs killing people um but yeah blood-stained clogs they're like max you're mine

00:40:23.740 The ladies love him, which I was startled to learn. 0.99

00:40:27.560 Yes.

00:40:28.600 One fun fact about Robespierre.

00:40:30.380 You know how we've talked in many episodes about the sans-culottes, without the culottes people?

00:40:36.420 Those guys running around in their underpants.

00:40:37.840 Yep.

00:40:38.520 Yep, yep, yep.

00:40:39.940 Robespierre kept his breeches.

00:40:43.260 He refused to change to the revolutionary outfit.

00:40:46.140 He kept his little nobility knee breeches.

00:40:48.640 So he was with, he was avec culottes.

00:40:51.180 Avec culottes, yes.

00:40:52.560 okay that's interesting because like the sans-culats was such a thing yeah yeah and i this

00:40:59.200 is me projecting on him but i think it's because he was such an upright moral puritan kind of guy

00:41:05.360 he's just like no no no this is what refinement looks like however in service of the people but

00:41:10.760 i'm not going to be a slob about it i'm gonna like keep doing my hair and brushing my teeth

00:41:15.660 well and also i think if he's this sort of like you described him as like this germaphobe type

00:41:19.240 person like if he's just a very fastidious person who like wants everything to be done just so

00:41:23.280 um i could see like if we're looking at some sort of spectrum of human behavior he could be somebody

00:41:29.100 who's just like this is what i wear every day and i'm not going to change that don't take my wig

00:41:32.880 i'm gonna kill the king but i'm gonna look normal yeah yeah yeah he's also the one who came up with

00:41:38.540 the motto liberte egalite fraternite that was him and he also as we discussed in previous episode 0.95

00:41:44.440 he also came up with if you're going to make it can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs

00:41:47.680 which we said the most french saying that could ever exist is when you're thinking about violence

00:41:52.600 and you're like you know what this reminds me of a nice omelet with some chives on top if he was

00:41:56.580 making an omelet he's like you know what this omelet reminds me of the revolution we're doing

00:42:00.220 it could go either way it really really could yeah like like i was saying he was he was a real

00:42:07.420 upstanding in his principles kind of guy he was referred to as the incorruptible because you

00:42:13.440 couldn't you couldn't buy him off with a bribe or with anything he was going to stay to his

00:42:17.500 principles no matter what i think you or someone else maybe lana described him to me early on in

00:42:23.000 my research is like if he had been around during the salem witch trials he would have been like

00:42:27.440 you're not getting enough witches get more witches this is we're not trialing enough

00:42:33.080 witches like he's he's like puritan sort of vibes yes he has a very strong and very high

00:42:40.720 moral bar, and if you're not meeting it, then you are now at the end. I think that's fair to say. 1.00

00:42:47.220 And now for a quick advertising break.

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00:45:40.740 leadership, entrepreneur, and self-improvement. Let's get started. And we're back. And throughout

00:45:56.060 all of this france is on and off at war with austria and i simply cannot do it i'm so sorry

00:46:03.740 to the listeners don't if there's habsburgs no there's so i just every time they debate the war

00:46:10.220 with austria and like and then i skip ahead 10 pages because i cannot do that so there's a limit

00:46:15.720 to what i'm allowed we don't need that's not what we're talking about right but they're working on

00:46:20.720 a constitution at this point. They draft the constitution, more paperwork. And then one of

00:46:26.760 the founding points of the new French constitution is that they're going to make a new governing body

00:46:32.960 to replace the National Assembly. And no one who is on the National Assembly can be elected to the

00:46:38.100 new government. So they sort of wrote themselves to say, I made a government and I can't write

00:46:42.940 myself as the president because that would not be upholding our Republican. Is this the really

00:46:47.660 ominously named thing no there's a thing this is the national convention no no there's a thing

00:46:54.120 later that's called like the we'll get to it it just sounds really 1984 if i go it's something

00:46:58.880 robespierre is a committee of public safety committee of public safety it sounds like oh

00:47:02.260 that's who does all the murdering i mean yeah that's a that's a committee on the national

00:47:07.240 convention okay like the ways and means committee in congress that's the sort of thing okay so

00:47:12.460 so right so there was the national assembly now they're making the convention same people not

00:47:17.080 allowed to be on it but i presume robespierre still on it not right now he's very very confident

00:47:22.920 in saying i am not going to be on it i believe in the principles of a free and fair election to

00:47:28.220 the convention so there's like a little brief moment where none of these guys are actually in

00:47:32.380 power it doesn't last very long but this is the point where robespierre who is temporarily out

00:47:39.080 of a job gets a fan letter from some kid in the countryside named saint just who's just like i

00:47:45.880 love you so much the the opening letter of St. Jude's letter to Robespierre the opening sentence

00:47:54.480 is you who uphold our tottering country against the torrent of despotism and intrigue you whom

00:48:00.860 I know as I know God only through his miracles I'm like oh okay I mean who among us hasn't

00:48:09.800 written that kind of a letter to a pop star whom we were like yeah yeah so so I like that St. Jude

00:48:15.860 is like still there, like ready to enter this story in a more legitimate way. But for now,

00:48:21.040 he's just like, dear Robespierre, I love you. I drew this fan art of me with you.

00:48:28.960 It's exactly what it was.

00:48:30.800 And I have heart eyes in it. Yeah.

00:48:34.340 So August of 1792, there are new elections for the National Convention. And Robespierre gets

00:48:41.180 selected from paris from the paris delegation side note i mean i know we're like pre the terror

00:48:46.020 but i always start me whenever barely but the fact that there are elections i'm just like wow

00:48:50.980 this is like in in the gouverneur morris episode where where i learned that he was named ambassador

00:48:56.860 to paris and i was like why do you have ambassadors in the midst of the purge but it's like well you

00:49:04.100 know paperwork has to still keep like so the fact that they're like well we're in the middle of the

00:49:08.580 french revolution but like let's do an election sure and unsurprisingly the most famous man in

00:49:16.160 the revolution rose fair elected handily so okay the whole thing about not writing himself into

00:49:21.360 the new government whatever he was going to be in the government yeah yeah yeah well it's kind of

00:49:25.120 like that's the only name anyone knows of course who else is anyone gonna vote for yeah yeah yeah

00:49:29.620 um they also elect representatives from the provinces around france and sanchise gets

00:49:35.920 elected. I was going to say, is one of them child representative Saint-Just? He's 25 now and he's

00:49:42.680 ready to go. I mean, still a baby in the grand scheme of things, but he is now present and

00:49:48.520 accounted for and standing six inches next to Robespierre for the entirety of the rest of the

00:49:54.300 story. Fantastic. Yeah. With heart eyes, I assume. Yes. Just, oh, you're my best friend, Max. I love

00:49:59.560 this so much. Yeah. Danton is also elected to the National Convention. He's the Minister of Justice.

00:50:05.920 which I wouldn't personally have said was a good idea.

00:50:10.700 I just picture that it's just him punching everybody.

00:50:14.160 I mean, sort of.

00:50:15.640 Which is just all I assume that he does.

00:50:18.200 But, okay, Mr. Justice Danton, yeah.

00:50:20.740 Yes, and so shortly after his election,

00:50:23.480 there's the massacre on the Champ de Mars,

00:50:26.040 which I think you've talked about.

00:50:27.200 I'm sure we have, but remind me who massacred who?

00:50:31.280 That was, unfortunately, it was Lafayette and the National Guard.

00:50:35.920 who were kind of trying to keep the peace

00:50:37.900 as this large group of French citizens 1.00

00:50:40.580 were gathering, rabble-rousing, 0.99

00:50:42.720 trying to sign petitions

00:50:43.880 to get rid of the monarchy, essentially.

00:50:46.860 Yeah.

00:50:47.240 Petitions.

00:50:48.220 But Lafayette was trying to keep order in the city

00:50:50.520 and you ordered the National Guard

00:50:52.340 to open fire on the mob

00:50:53.720 and some dozens of people died,

00:50:56.860 which Danton then used as an excuse

00:51:00.420 to go after people suspected

00:51:02.680 of being royalists in Paris.

00:51:04.580 were you on the side of the national guard are you a traitor to the revolution and he rounds up

00:51:11.720 hundreds and hundreds of people they're all sent to prison and in september there is a purge of

00:51:18.800 all of the prisoners in paris they're all they kill the people in the prisons yes that was um

00:51:24.300 the september massacres some of my ladies were there to roin to mary court and i think rain

00:51:29.500 Aoudou got Queen of the March. 0.99

00:51:31.720 She did. I think they got

00:51:33.480 some sort of medal afterwards for like being

00:51:35.620 especially murderous. Yes.

00:51:37.460 In these prison riots. Yes. Yes. Yes.

00:51:39.440 And these were all on the orders of Danton

00:51:41.640 as Minister of Justice. He was the one

00:51:43.500 who ordered those to happen. Yeah.

00:51:46.220 So he makes a lot of

00:51:47.480 enemies in that moment, obviously. But

00:51:49.440 he also has a lot of admirers. He's

00:51:51.500 a very dramatic,

00:51:53.780 forceful person who's

00:51:55.540 uncompromising. If

00:51:57.440 they're royalists, then that's all we're done.

00:51:59.500 Yeah.

00:52:01.240 Murat was, meanwhile, writing his newspaper, celebrating.

00:52:05.300 Honestly, I forgot about him.

00:52:06.500 Like, he just, like, emerges from the sewer, like Oscar the Grouch, like, I'm still here.

00:52:10.360 Yeah.

00:52:11.340 Yes, he's Oscar the Grouching himself back into the story by writing inflammatory newspaper articles saying, I don't think we murdered enough people during the September massacres.

00:52:22.040 Can we murder more people? 0.92

00:52:23.400 And also, all of you revolutionaries out in the provinces should probably start murdering people, too. 1.00

00:52:28.240 That would be great. 0.96

00:52:29.500 Danton and Marat are working together on sort of this Ministry of Justice stuff,

00:52:34.780 but I did include one quote from Danton about how much he hates Marat, which I think is great.

00:52:40.580 Quote, I don't like this individual Marat.

00:52:43.520 I say frankly that I have experienced his temperament.

00:52:46.300 He is volcanic, cantankerous, and unsociable.

00:52:49.780 Which coming from Danton is really something. 0.75

00:52:53.020 I am getting such a clear image of Marat now.

00:52:57.160 Like he's just...

00:52:59.500 yeah just like the most aggressively annoying like if you've ever worked in like a customer

00:53:06.260 service based job just like the person who comes in like or you're just like okay sure yeah we'll

00:53:12.100 try and help you but it's just like somebody's never satisfied yep shall i like even more the

00:53:18.700 the image that you and gavin talked about the david painting of mara dying like jesus i'm just

00:53:23.620 like i need everyone to know it was this guy that we're talking about this disgusting man from the 0.55

00:53:29.920 sewers yeah stewing in his own filth yeah okay yeah so even like like so extremely even danton

00:53:36.980 is like this guy's a bit much this guy even i danton author of the september massacres are like

00:53:43.460 this guy needs to cool it a little bit yeah yes meanwhile robespierre is still in the national

00:53:50.760 convention he's sort of the most important politician there and he is continuing to be

00:53:57.220 the most articulate and charismatic and exciting speaker on the floor of the convention i feel like

00:54:03.540 at this point he's kind of holding it all together yeah like i don't think the leader the revolution

00:54:09.320 wouldn't have gotten to this point in state at this point without him sort of like is the linchpin

00:54:13.020 like you need someone like that in charge yeah and you can kind of see why now that we're talking

00:54:18.640 about all of the kind of men at the center of this and how so many of them were like a danton

00:54:23.820 or a marat, where it's just like, okay, you've got the spirit and you've got the energy, but what

00:54:28.000 you don't have is the patience to sit down and do the paperwork and the administration.

00:54:32.120 And Robespierre does. He's going to his convention meetings every day and making his speeches and

00:54:37.160 calling votes and setting up committees. And that's what you've got to do to keep the actual

00:54:41.220 machinery of it right. Yeah, exactly. You're probably going to, I don't think you'd skip

00:54:45.220 over this but is the king

00:54:47.140 still alive he is

00:54:49.400 okay we are getting very close

00:54:51.280 to that point that would be a wild thing to skip over

00:54:53.280 in the story I don't know like because we're

00:54:54.980 trying to do a high level version of things

00:54:57.200 but we are trying to whiz through it

00:54:59.060 just double checking okay yeah because at

00:55:01.160 this point the king is still alive and their plan

00:55:03.080 allegedly is to be

00:55:05.220 like yeah we're going to be sort of like England

00:55:07.000 where it's like there's a king but also there's a parliament

00:55:09.080 and he's just kind of like he

00:55:11.120 approves things but he's not really in charge like they're

00:55:13.100 keeping him alive to sort of have this

00:55:15.220 representative monarchy. Right. This is sort of the moment when the split between the Girondins

00:55:21.320 and the mountain is kind of coming to. Now that they're reaching this point, there's a government,

00:55:25.820 it's more or less functioning. You now have to decide what you're going to do about the king.

00:55:31.200 And so the factions between will we go constitutional monarchy or will we go

00:55:35.720 all murder all the time? Those are kind of people are radicalizing themselves in both directions.

00:55:40.940 okay but the thing i wanted to tell you about robespierre in the convention is his his lady

00:55:48.300 fan club which we alluded to briefly but i need to know if you've come across in your research

00:55:53.540 uh the group of women called the tricotus have you found them yet no what's that what does that

00:55:59.100 translate to the knitting ladies no yes like in the book in the tale of two cities based on real

00:56:06.420 people. Yes. These are women who would bring their knitting projects to national convention

00:56:11.800 meetings and like sit off in the side and spectate and listen to Robespierre give his fiery speeches 0.89

00:56:17.360 while he yelled at people and sentenced them to the guillotine. And then later in the terror,

00:56:22.400 they would bring their arts and crafts knitting projects to the guillotine and knit during the

00:56:27.120 executions. Okay. Back, I want to say two years ago when I was like, I'm going to do this season, 0.91

00:56:32.520 it's going to be able to re-internate in the French Revolution. I don't know anything about

00:56:36.080 it i think i was like i need to know allison who are the people who are the main characters of

00:56:39.880 french revolution is there a real life version of the woman who does the knitting yes yes there is

00:56:45.400 this is them because that is the energy that i have always aspired to um just i think of them

00:56:53.920 as the pinterest arts and crafts sub segment of the market ladies they're just like yeah we're in

00:56:59.540 here and we're here for blood but also we're making a chic little scarf which i love i feel

00:57:05.140 like yeah it's kind of like market ladies when they finish doing their like market lady biz

00:57:08.580 they're like you know what let's just go watch our guy robespierre um and like oh i have this

00:57:13.540 new pattern to like for this jaunty little scarf and like my red light and blue socks because i'm

00:57:20.120 ready oh my gosh yeah yeah so robespierre like the fact that robespierre has these like

00:57:24.880 fans is i love this detail and it was unexpected to me for sure yeah we've talked about this like

00:57:32.000 what is this fan club for ropes here like it's wild you wouldn't expect him to be the one who

00:57:37.160 has groupies and yet i guess the charisma the charisma of it all you know it's people write

00:57:42.120 love letters to to people in prison you know like yeah like like women can become stands for like

00:57:48.600 any vaguely charismatic man really yeah and he was what much more than vaguely he was the guy i

00:57:55.800 suppose he was also like if you're believing in the philosophy of Rousseau and the rights of man

00:58:03.260 this is your guy I mean not to compare this to contemporary American politics but there are

00:58:10.940 women who are drawn to people who they see as leaders of movements that they support and it

00:58:18.740 is yes indeed baffling and I could see those people knitting and then putting their things

00:58:22.780 on pinterest as well so they would also be red white and blue interesting they would be yes

00:58:29.400 yeah absolutely so they're just like standing for rose pierre they're just like we do you remember

00:58:35.280 in um the indiana jones movie where the one person in the class she's written on her eyelids 1.00

00:58:39.800 in eyeliner it's like love you yes i feel like these women are there just they use like charcoal 0.99

00:58:45.560 to be like love you robes here exactly that speaking of standing for robes pierre yeah

00:58:51.000 Saint-Just is in the convention as well and he is just as charismatic as Robespierre is

00:58:56.300 and hotter so people are like oh yes this is great who's a hotter younger Robespierre yeah

00:59:02.800 exactly and he's the one who starts like oh the big theme of his speeches at this point

00:59:08.040 is we need to kill the king we should be killing the king he's sort of getting that into

00:59:12.660 the mix of what's being discussed I wanted to mention about Robespierre in terms of his like 0.96

00:59:16.960 lady fans he yes is not married he has like a longtime girlfriend who's like an artist or

00:59:24.200 something but he is he's he's single he's the most eligible bachelor in the French Revolution

00:59:29.640 ladies I suppose but I guess he also doesn't have time for a relationship because he's busy doing

00:59:36.620 all these bureaucratic there's so much paperwork yeah yeah yeah so this brings us to late 1792

00:59:45.220 all of the ground laying

00:59:47.740 Saint-Just has been doing

00:59:48.980 is paying off

00:59:49.860 and the king is arrested.

00:59:51.700 He's put on trial,

00:59:52.840 which is a joke

00:59:53.460 because everybody knows

00:59:55.060 how the trial is going to end.

00:59:57.100 He is convicted.

00:59:58.660 He is sentenced to death

00:59:59.700 and the king is executed

01:00:01.100 by guillotine in January 1793.

01:00:04.840 Robespierre and Saint-Just

01:00:06.040 are sort of just behind the scenes

01:00:08.620 pushing all of this forward

01:00:09.680 the whole time,

01:00:10.500 like making sure

01:00:11.420 the machinery keeps turning,

01:00:13.060 making sure everybody's

01:00:14.160 in a vote the right way they're the ones sort of pushing that yeah i like that i like that

01:00:19.120 roe's pure and st juice i'm happy for st juice that they're like those two guys or it's like

01:00:23.780 this guy and then his like little helper guy his little man like it's a real batman and robin kind 0.86

01:00:30.160 of thing yes yes exactly yeah so the king is executed everything's fucking crazy no one knows 0.82

01:00:39.460 what to do at this point yeah can you guess who immediately starts calling for everybody to murder 0.57

01:00:45.460 everybody and to put the city under martial law uh marat correct yeah he's just like all my dreams

01:00:53.000 coming true like this is why i am ready it's time for chaos and uh the convention arrests him's like

01:00:59.980 no please calm down this is too much we need you to chill for a moment smora but they release him

01:01:05.260 later and he's back out writing. Yeah. This is the point where the Girondins are like, hang on,

01:01:12.260 what are you doing? This is not the revolution that I signed up for. This is, this is not my

01:01:17.780 beautiful house. This is not my beautiful France. And so they start to kind of cause this split 0.78

01:01:22.840 inside of the convention. And this is the moment when Robespierre, Marat, Danton, Desmoulins,

01:01:29.480 all of them are like we need to purge the convention of everybody who doesn't believe 1.00

01:01:36.300 in the motivations of the jacobins and so this is the purge of the girondins they're all expelled 0.91

01:01:42.720 this is where the um who are my lesbians um claire and pauline show up with the other lady 0.59

01:01:49.400 soldiers with their daggers and they're the like lady army in the in the hallway yeah

01:01:54.140 um and they're all arrested and of course arrest at this time means in one to two weeks you will

01:02:02.320 be executed at the guillotine uh our our poor little boy camille de moulin i don't think put

01:02:08.720 that together because he said to have immediately regretted his role in the purge of the girondins

01:02:14.900 and he fainted when he found out they were going to be executed and from this moment he starts to

01:02:19.860 kind of push back against Robespierre and company. He's trying to slow down the violence of the

01:02:25.800 revolution. It's far too late for that. He's already done everything that he needed to do

01:02:29.720 to set that machine in motion. But this is where he starts to have a little bit of a change of heart.

01:02:35.320 And I think this is also, I mean, what year are we in? 1790?

01:02:38.620 Early 93.

01:02:39.880 Yeah, this is around the time period of which everyone that I've talked about on this podcast

01:02:43.600 is killed.

01:02:45.240 Yes, we are rapidly running out of my notes for these guys as well.

01:02:48.500 Yeah, but this brings us to July in 1793, when a very badass lady decides to come to Paris and avenge the Girondins and get rid of the person she blames for the Girondin purge, which is Charlotte Corday, our girly, who comes to Paris and stabs Marat in the bathtub because she blames him for the murder of half of the National Convention.

01:03:16.140 And I do want to mention here, so he was in the bathtub because he had this skin condition that especially flared up when it was hot out and there was this like heat wave happening in Paris at the time.

01:03:26.300 So he had to just like live in a cold bathtub 24 hours a day. Otherwise he's just so itchy.

01:03:31.700 And as you, Alison, in Chicago have been living in a heat wave and lots of people in lots of parts of Canada and America have been as well, just imagine how the heat makes you go crazy.

01:03:42.820 like how it just like exacerbates if you're cranky if you're angry like it just makes your emotions

01:03:47.700 more extreme so you're also hungry because there's no bread so you're sweating you're hungry you're

01:03:53.880 angry everything smells like sewer it's a bad time yeah yeah so just sort of just throwing the heat

01:04:00.400 on top of everything else that's happening in paris at this time it's just like no wonder everyone

01:04:04.500 just kind of like you know people talk about the salem witch trials it's like oh was it the bread

01:04:08.240 or whatever it's like sometimes i don't know like why do people go so wild like in the french

01:04:14.140 revolution there's all these things happening but the heat just tips everyone over i think

01:04:17.440 it just like yeah if you're already at like a nine it takes it to a ten yes i have been cranky

01:04:22.760 for two weeks so absolutely and you have air conditioning i presume i do yes but sometimes 0.83

01:04:29.420 i have to leave this apartment french people like what can they do to cool off go in the sewers i 0.99

01:04:34.880 don't know i mean it's probably nice and cool down there yeah yeah so marat is dead yes and this 0.94

01:04:42.380 does as i recall the opposite of what charlotte corday wanted it to do it makes people hate the

01:04:47.720 girondins even more yes what this does is suddenly our entire government is under a threat from

01:04:53.820 assassins and what we need to do is crank up the authoritarianism and root out everybody who was

01:04:59.300 a contra-revolutionary, sending us straight into the terror. So this is where the Committee of

01:05:06.180 Public Safety, which is that subset of the convention. It just sounds like something

01:05:11.860 from 1984, like Committee of Public Safety is like actually the most dangerous group of all.

01:05:16.040 And they were. And they were. Yeah. Robespierre and Saint-Just are both members of the committee.

01:05:21.740 Robespierre is also the president of the convention at this point. So he's sort of in

01:05:24.920 charge of everything and the committee of public safety becomes sort of the de facto governing

01:05:31.760 body in charge of the revolution it's sort of like we're in a time of our our revolution is

01:05:38.220 under attack so we're going to have this committee kind of take control and establish order sort of

01:05:43.540 emergency powers that sort of supersede the rule of law again not to bring up

01:05:49.160 current american political situations yeah um saint just had just finished writing the constitution

01:05:56.720 for the new republic of france like weeks before but it was never put into power because they

01:06:03.720 immediately jumped right into emergency powers and suspended the constitution that they had just

01:06:08.080 finished so they can sort of do whatever they need to do to take care of the threat of

01:06:12.820 counter-revolutionaries, which in practice means they're guillotining Girondin's sort of left,

01:06:19.900 right and center. Yeah. Danton, who was on the Committee of Public Safety, resigns. He says,

01:06:26.860 what the fuck is this? What are you doing? Even Danton has a change of heart. Yes. 1.00

01:06:30.980 The boys, the Spice Boys are splitting up. Okay. I know what my notes say is the girls are fighting,

01:06:36.860 which is what happens in this point uh so danton steps down and kind of sides desmoulins kind of

01:06:43.320 comes over to his side yeah so now we've got two factions which is the robes pierre sanju's side

01:06:48.840 which is we have to kill everybody there is no other way to protect the revolution

01:06:52.320 and the side of the dantonists who is danton and desmoulins and lots of other guys we haven't

01:06:58.820 talked about whose name i'll start with g so we're not getting this is this is something to do with

01:07:04.080 the Menon Roland had a thing where like Danton tried to make peace with her but she was mad at

01:07:10.240 him for something and she never did and I read like if she had sided with him maybe things could

01:07:15.140 have gone differently but she just like wouldn't something about Danton in that story I forgot this

01:07:19.240 is the moment where Danton becomes the more moderate voice and he was the author of the

01:07:24.800 September massacres like a year ago yeah so I'm imagining Madame Roland is like I don't know if

01:07:32.100 that's the guy i want to be on his side but i'm like when you look at the two sides that are

01:07:35.680 available yeah that is the preferable one in this book yeah um so roves-pierre and sanju are like 0.98

01:07:43.440 well then fuck you danton we'll make our own government they start having these inflammatory 0.80

01:07:48.060 speeches against danton in the convention what i will say about the french revolution is that 1.00

01:07:54.800 events happen all the way through but the most important thing is that these messy bitches are 1.00

01:08:00.220 yelling at each other in political speeches every single day for five years that's how most of these 1.00

01:08:06.160 opinions are changed and how most of this happens is that they're just spatting and yelling yeah

01:08:11.820 um so danton forms his own little like counter government called the indulgence or the indulgence

01:08:20.080 which is i was just gonna say like oh it doesn't have a cute name and it does okay it does they

01:08:24.060 all do uh and the point of this group is it's all former radical jacobins who are like we believe in

01:08:31.120 revolution we are on the same side as you but please stop murdering everybody and can we maybe

01:08:37.300 take two steps back and focus on the price of bread which is what we said a lot of this was

01:08:41.800 in the first place what essentially this all is about and it's still really expensive and the

01:08:47.000 market ladies are like what's up yeah uh so desmoulins starts a brand new newspaper for this

01:08:54.780 movement uh which he headily calls the vieux le vieux cordeliers which is the old cordeliers

01:09:01.620 like the way it used to be the old days the good times and the point of this newspaper is to push

01:09:07.840 back against the terror and kind of try to walk back the french revolution like two and a half

01:09:12.620 years to when we were all working together. Conservatively, how many newspapers do you

01:09:18.360 think were started during the French Revolution? Is it a thousand? At least. I tell you, these

01:09:25.160 people loved a pamphlet and they loved a newsletter and they loved a speech. If I'm just like a market

01:09:31.320 lady walking down the street or like market lady's husband or whoever, and it's just like, hey, you

01:09:36.060 get the new newspaper. I'm just like, I already subscribed to 25 newspapers. I'm not like, what's

01:09:40.360 this new newspaper. Like, I can't keep up with all these newspapers. I assume this is the

01:09:44.740 substack of the French Revolution, where you're just like, it's another goddamn substack from 0.99

01:09:49.540 another guy with an opinion. I can't. I get too many emails every day. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. 0.99

01:09:56.200 So in this newspaper, Desmoulins calls for replacing the Committee of Public Safety with

01:10:01.040 a Committee of Clemency, which I think is very cute and idealized of him. This is Desmoulins?

01:10:06.540 Yes.

01:10:07.040 Okay.

01:10:08.040 And so he also, in his newspaper, which is why I brought this up, starts writing open

01:10:13.420 letters to Robespierre, like referring to him as my old school friend, and urges him

01:10:21.440 to remember, quote, that love is stronger than fear.

01:10:25.340 This maybe is de Moulin's romantic wife's, you know, influence on him.

01:10:30.900 But recall, recall that Robespierre was best man at de Moulin's wedding.

01:10:36.040 Yes. And this is why I'm just like, where is this romance novel between Des Moulins and Robespierre? Where's that? Where is that to me? But nonetheless, Robespierre gives Des Moulins the chance to recant, take back everything he said in the newspaper, burn all of the issues of the newspaper, and says, if you do all of that, you'll be welcomed back into the fold of the government. You can still be my friend. It'll all be okay.

01:11:01.920 and Desmoulins' response is

01:11:04.920 burning the letters isn't answering them 1.00

01:11:07.820 like this dramatic bitch 1.00

01:11:10.300 that's great that's great yeah yeah 0.99

01:11:13.000 so in March of 1794 Robespierre decides that he's had enough

01:11:18.080 with his two former friends who have turned against him

01:11:20.600 so Danton and Desmoulins are both arrested

01:11:23.900 as enemies of the people

01:11:25.500 Robespierre and Saint-Just preside over the trial

01:11:28.700 they're the ones in charge of course Danton gets some good like

01:11:31.920 one-liners in there because of who he is as a person yeah um do you have stuff here about the

01:11:36.560 the wife of de moulin i do in a moment yes okay yes yes because this is the one i think this is

01:11:42.160 the one thing more about her than i do so i would like to know what exactly she did yeah okay but

01:11:47.260 um saint just delivers the verdicts condemning danton and everybody else to death this is when

01:11:54.560 he earns the nickname the archangel of terror oh because he delivers all of these murder

01:12:01.260 verdicts and also because he is again so hot so yeah i love that for him i pictured him sort of

01:12:07.220 like the guy who plays listat on interview with the vampire sort of like hot yet terrifying yes

01:12:12.920 i think that's exactly the energy okay yeah so all i have in my notes and this is where i'm turning

01:12:18.840 it over to you is that de moulin's wife was arrested for counter-revolutionary activities

01:12:23.080 just a few days before he was sentenced to death because she was trying to free him

01:12:27.500 is that true and what else do you know um well i can get you my previous notes from when i thought

01:12:34.000 i was going to talk about her but basically this is the only thing she did in her life other than

01:12:38.560 support her man and for a while i was like i can do an episode about this and then i was just like

01:12:43.340 i can't like the one active choice she made in her other than just being like that's my man

01:12:49.320 that's my man like he like god put him here i support him and then when he was arrested she

01:12:55.100 it's like she's living in this like she's like trad wife of the french revolution she's just like

01:13:00.860 i'm here for my man and then when he was taken away she's just like wait what like this affects

01:13:04.780 me what like so her husband was arrested that night and then and then began her gallant if

01:13:12.020 futile fight to save her husband oh so she was i feel like she was oh no she wasn't in a nightgown

01:13:19.760 that was menon burlan but um she just like was like the first time she ever did anything active

01:13:24.320 in her whole life lucille de moulin like you know god bless she just was like oh my god this isn't

01:13:28.780 right what can i do and then she was just going from like around the city begging everyone like

01:13:33.560 going to all the offices being like please release my husband like won't anybody help me

01:13:37.280 um and then eventually when exhausted she stood silently outside the prison yearning for the sight

01:13:43.720 of him like these two like i know that you have your like and i agree with rose pierre like this

01:13:48.800 is like like there's a love triangle and or thruple going on here but like she is my preferred

01:13:54.300 outcome for this story yeah yeah no because she and her husband were just like really into each

01:13:59.080 other so she just wanted to like see the top of his head through the window of the prison

01:14:03.160 she appealed to robes pierre um reminding him of the old friendship of the knights robes pierre

01:14:09.860 had been a part of the family circle how he had been the best man at the wedding but he wouldn't

01:14:14.860 answer the letter and oh my gosh so from prison um demula wrote to lucille begging her to live

01:14:24.280 to protect their son adieu lulu he wrote oh my life my soul my divinity on earth and this letter

01:14:33.220 inspired her to go trying to um get him freed she started like cursing robespierre she was like i'm

01:14:40.700 gonna bribe somebody i will raise an instruction in the city somehow this is from an encyclopedia

01:14:47.920 but um to everyone and to no one she cried why am i at liberty do people think that just because

01:14:52.860 i'm a woman i do not dare to raise my voice but no one listened anyway so she was in fact like

01:15:00.240 trying to raise an insurrection to free him from prison and so then she was sans juste accused her

01:15:06.380 of fomenting a rebellion in prison which she was doing and conspiring with no encounter

01:15:11.600 revolutionaries which she was doing and that's do you have stuff there about uh de moulin's

01:15:16.100 execution i do only from his perspective but he was being brought to the guillotine and he was

01:15:23.060 informed on the way that she had been arrested for trying to free him and he went nuts and tried

01:15:28.940 to escape and then tried to kill himself before he got to the guillotine because he loved her so much

01:15:34.040 hysterically he tore his clothes shouted her name to the crowd lining the avenues

01:15:39.920 he believed that the citizens would search for to save him and danton or somehow lulu might

01:15:45.400 rescue him. Danton tried to encourage his friend to display dignity, but he could not. He could not

01:15:53.120 control himself. So as they passed Robespierre's house, like going to the execution, Danton

01:15:58.760 bellowed towards Robespierre's house, you will follow me. Yes. At the scaffold, Danton hesitated,

01:16:06.700 then said, come Danton, no weakness. And then to the executioner, Danton said, show my head to the

01:16:12.620 people it is worth showing which is my favorite last words for anybody in the french revolution

01:16:19.180 because as we've discussed he has quite a head so he's i was gonna say yeah if you put that head 0.99

01:16:25.580 on a pike everyone's gonna know whose head that is yeah um and then lucille just so you know she 0.86

01:16:30.720 was faced before the revolution so de moulin was it was weeping as he was executed lucille lived 0.65

01:16:37.020 for one more week um and she was just like all i want is to be reunited with my beloved husband

01:16:43.580 in death um this says she wore a white veil over her head just as she had on her wedding day at

01:16:51.320 the guillotine she displayed no fear she all but danced up the steps and quickly placed herself in

01:16:56.160 the correct position because she was just like bring me back to my beloved husband that's that's 1.00

01:17:02.680 what I know about Lucille de Moulin. I think that is probably the entirety of what there is,

01:17:08.360 but I do love them so much. This is why I'm problematically a big fan of de Moulin because

01:17:13.180 I'm just like, yeah, he's also a wife guy, which is great. And he just had a lot of feelings.

01:17:18.720 He did. He was just a little broke journalist who got excited and blessed him for that.

01:17:24.700 Yeah. Yeah. And he found a, he found a woman who would ride or die.

01:17:28.140 all right so we started this story with five spice girls and we're now down to two i was just i was

01:17:35.120 to do the mental earth and check i'm like who's left yeah so just robespierre and san just yeah

01:17:39.660 yes that's all we have left and uh spoiler this section of my notes that i'm going to talk through

01:17:45.760 is titled fall of robespierre so we're going to finally talk about the death of robespierre well

01:17:50.220 because this happens very quickly everyone else i've talked about on the podcast this season

01:17:54.900 is dead now. Like we're getting into uncharted territory of what happens after. Yeah.

01:18:02.840 Right. So we're in late 1793, a place we have not been in this season before.

01:18:07.380 An era I don't know anything about.

01:18:10.000 And there's been a big undercurrent of pushback against the Catholic Church throughout the whole

01:18:16.980 of the revolution. That's been, you know, another source of power that doesn't come from the people.

01:18:22.140 so there's been a lot of that going on it's at this point that robespierre tries to instate his

01:18:27.100 new religion wait wait when did they put in the new calendar has that happened that's happened

01:18:34.020 yes thermidor etc that was the death of the king i think that was day one of the new calendar where

01:18:40.420 they have the could you just briefly remind people who may not know about the the french

01:18:45.060 revolutionary calendar when the revolutionaries decided we're starting a brand new world brand

01:18:50.180 new france and it means new world new calendar so they start over it's now day one of year one

01:18:56.420 and they redo the names of all of the months to be not i think not related to the ancient emperors

01:19:05.320 but like to their own brand new french things i think that was the to like this season like the

01:19:11.400 month of the flowers and this is the month like yep yeah so there's there's uh germinal which is

01:19:17.580 like this season where things start to sprout and fluvial the month where it rains a lot and

01:19:23.120 ann's favorite broom air the month when it's foggy it's an easy one to remember yeah yeah you know

01:19:30.400 and i i just like to think about the committee that got to do that it was like people like you

01:19:34.220 and me they're like okay like who in our committee like who's kind of creative out the box thinking

01:19:38.340 like ann allison could you make up names for the months like oh yeah i'd rather do that than like

01:19:43.100 oversee tribunals of executions.

01:19:45.460 Thank you.

01:19:47.760 Yes.

01:19:48.420 I have to imagine that was a job for somebody.

01:19:50.340 They did not want to be in charge of anything else.

01:19:53.160 They're just like,

01:19:53.620 and we're going to give you the calendar.

01:19:56.440 Good luck.

01:19:58.920 Yes.

01:19:59.540 But in addition to new calendar,

01:20:01.780 Robespierre decides to launch the cult of the supreme being,

01:20:05.800 which is what he calls his new revolution.

01:20:08.220 Robespierre, there's like people who have...

01:20:13.100 who want to be in charge of things like he was doing in terms of someone being in charge he's

01:20:17.900 like let's do the paperwork let's have the french revolution but it's like after a certain while

01:20:21.700 it's like i think he has achieved all his goals so now he's just inventing new goals and now it's

01:20:27.020 and now that's where you need to retire from that job when you like you've achieved everything you

01:20:31.900 wanted to like the cult of the is he the supreme being see that's exactly what everybody in france

01:20:38.300 was asking themselves because the whole idea of the cult of the supreme being is that the human

01:20:43.800 soul is the most holy thing there is there is no god there is no church there is only a supreme 0.99

01:20:50.080 leader of the republic who leads all people which is everybody's like bitch that's you 0.97

01:20:54.940 robespierre that's you you just made yourself a god which people don't love because they just 0.96

01:21:01.600 over through a king yeah there's some not great things happening in rogues pierre's world right

01:21:08.860 okay okay and this is also giving me sort of like an i claudius type vibe this is sort of like a bit

01:21:13.560 of a he's gone a bit caligula here a little bit yeah it's it's like i want to say he's being

01:21:21.100 extra paranoid that everybody's out to get him except everybody is out to get him so he's not

01:21:26.480 wrong but he is kind of trying to ramp up his control of the convention and he's making many

01:21:34.840 more enemies than he is friends at this point he's also just as we discussed executed half of his

01:21:41.120 friends so nobody feels particularly safe around rosebeard because if you're on his side today

01:21:47.340 is he going to execute you in two weeks like he did to dental maybe so he's like here's my new

01:21:53.340 religion and saint juice i assume is like hell yeah hell yeah you've been my god this whole time

01:21:58.400 remember you're that letter yes yeah exactly that yes so rope spear gets up in july 1794 and does

01:22:07.280 like a multiple hours long filibuster on the floor of the convention where he goes through

01:22:13.480 all of the people that he thinks are enemies of and it's a long list takes him all day to get

01:22:20.280 through it the the ladies are knitting they're like i've done so many years like i made a whole

01:22:24.760 sweater and he's still saying names i guess i'll do the front row clapping wildly but yeah yeah

01:22:31.640 everybody else is like oh god this guy has actually gone too far and i think he's going to be a threat

01:22:37.020 to me personally yeah maybe we should do something so we then have a brand new movement of people who

01:22:45.340 enter the convention and they're called you'll enjoy them the thermidorists after the month of

01:22:51.000 thermidor yes we bring the calendar back that's july and this is just a group of people who are

01:22:58.040 like robespierre must be stopped we have to get him before he gets july it's probably hot again

01:23:02.380 i would imagine yeah nothing good happens in july in france yeah people burn things honestly yeah

01:23:08.800 that's three july is when people are doing that i've never put that together yes so the

01:23:15.540 thermidorists then put out a warrant for the arrest of robespierre and and san just they're

01:23:21.680 like we got to get rid of them they're arrested they are brought to prison they break out of

01:23:28.120 prison yeah allies there are still allies to these folks in paris and so they organize a prison break

01:23:35.260 And Saint-Juice and Robespierre are then on the run.

01:23:38.700 Hiding in the sewers?

01:23:41.140 It's Robespierre.

01:23:42.100 He's definitely not in the sewers.

01:23:43.180 Oh, that's true.

01:23:43.860 He's hiding in a very clean apartment somewhere.

01:23:46.660 Yeah, yeah.

01:23:48.220 But what they do is they run off with the other people they were arrested with, Robespierre and Saint-Juice.

01:23:54.420 They run to the Hotel de Ville, which is like town hall.

01:23:56.900 and they're in this secret room in the back

01:24:01.120 trying to draft a call to arms

01:24:04.340 where they're going to get the people to rise up.

01:24:07.700 They're going to get a popular rebellion

01:24:09.720 to take over the convention again, 0.99

01:24:12.280 kill all the people who just arrested them 1.00

01:24:13.980 and keep themselves back in power. 1.00

01:24:16.080 But the Thermidoris find them.

01:24:19.220 I like the detail of how they found them,

01:24:21.460 which is because the secret password

01:24:23.000 you were supposed to say to get back into the room

01:24:25.440 where Robespierre was hiding.

01:24:26.900 was

01:24:27.860 Viva Robespierre

01:24:29.860 which you have to feel like was going to

01:24:33.100 tip off somebody who hurt you

01:24:34.660 but they did find him

01:24:36.720 and a battalion of soldiers

01:24:39.100 storms in and tries to retake the

01:24:40.960 fugitives in the Hotel de Ville

01:24:42.640 Robespierre

01:24:44.520 wants to go down like an ancient Roman 0.73

01:24:46.740 that was his whole deal and so he tries 0.99

01:24:49.080 to shoot himself in the head before he can be 0.75

01:24:51.040 taken prisoner 1.00

01:24:51.680 he does a shitty job of it 0.93

01:24:55.080 and what he does is 0.98

01:24:56.720 he shoots himself through the jaw and suddenly he looks like danton like a little bit danton

01:25:02.580 his face yeah but it breaks his jaw and it knocks out his teeth yeah and they have to

01:25:08.020 tie like a bandage around his head to keep his mouth closed oh yeah it's really bad okay

01:25:16.500 but he is then taken captured okay sounds just just i do have to love the drama of this kid

01:25:25.420 because they come in to arrest him and he's just like go ahead and they take him they handcuff him 0.96

01:25:31.760 they walk him out he doesn't say a goddamn word i don't know if he says another word until they 1.00

01:25:36.020 arrest him he's just like there we go we're in i'm better than all of you fuck you that's his 0.99

01:25:41.620 energy he's arrested um so both rose pierre and sanjuice are put on trial quote unquote and they 0.99

01:25:50.540 are immediately sentenced to death as counter-revolutionaries and the people who are

01:25:54.220 are the thermidorists yes is there a leader of them there is but he's not as charismatic so i

01:26:01.940 don't remember his name okay i was gonna be like and is that person napoleon okay no okay not okay

01:26:07.680 but um robespierre and sanjuice are then taken to the guillotine danton was right it was indeed him

01:26:14.820 next but the horrible detail that i'm going to give you is that they take the bandage off of

01:26:21.480 rope to his head before they execute him so he's just screaming in pain the whole time yeah before

01:26:27.580 they got his head off yeah sandjuice is guillotined as well wild applause the crowd goes nuts the

01:26:33.840 knitting ladies are knitting they're enjoying this because by this time they're just here for

01:26:37.580 the violence yeah yeah and now we are all out of spice girls now we are zero for five 0.52

01:26:43.280 this is a good demonstration or explanation of how the french revolution because right now we're

01:26:52.020 recording this same weekend as the um jeff bezos lauren santa's wedding in venice which i've seen

01:26:59.300 a re-emergence of people talking about guillotines and like you know where it's like

01:27:06.240 the french revolution didn't work it's not no there was we don't want we don't want to emulate

01:27:13.860 this this is not this didn't help you know who got guillotined in the french revolution

01:27:19.960 everybody including the leaders of the french revolution that was a there was nobody who could

01:27:26.020 stand up to the the purity politics of the french revolution nobody could be republican enough

01:27:32.020 yeah it it just so after this you sent me a document once sort of explaining the sequence

01:27:39.360 of revolutions and then like the monarchy is restored and like what happens so there's like

01:27:43.880 the thermidorists and then right and they're they're they have no real charismatic leader

01:27:49.640 they don't have a rope here there's nobody who's like yes and we're going to rally everybody around

01:27:53.960 this it is also much harder to rally people energetically around let's be moderate and in

01:28:00.620 the middle of things fair yeah so they kind of hold on for a little while but then the pendulum

01:28:08.700 starts to swing in the other direction and then it becomes the royalists who are pushing back

01:28:13.460 against the terror and everything that happened during the french revolution they start to take

01:28:17.760 on more power they start to bring in more of a need for a central force at the middle of this 0.99

01:28:24.980 government to sort of impose order and that unfortunately is how we end up with goddamn 0.93

01:28:30.560 napoleon who like rose pierre napoleon like there's just there's a it's i don't know like 0.73

01:28:41.060 the the men who were like in charge of these movements are just like that's not where my

01:28:45.740 interest lies usually because they but i can see where there was a need for someone to take charge

01:28:53.060 yes yeah it's like you needed a rose pierre to like get the you could have had a constitutionally 0.91

01:28:59.560 elected president instead of an emperor but what the fuck do i know napoleon and in the next episode 0.91

01:29:09.260 napoleon is going to show up a little bit but thank you for for guiding us through the rest 0.95

01:29:16.440 like every episode of the the season so far it's been like i'm explaining it's like we get like

01:29:21.540 one more week further into 1793 it's like and then our main character arrives the end

01:29:26.180 like i'm just like how like did anyone in france survive past this point like does

01:29:32.180 everyone seems to just have died in 1793 so like we well you have now made it to july 1794

01:29:38.640 and beyond that the answer is no some people did survive apparently but thank you so much 0.74

01:29:44.700 for explaining who these guys are these messy bitches it's like for a time they were a dream 0.99

01:29:51.820 team and then for like nine months man they were great for for nine months 1791 and then it all 1.00

01:30:00.420 just kind of fell apart as it does when you have a group of people with big personalities like this

01:30:03.920 and it's July and it's hot I mean I don't I don't feel like we we need to score them on the

01:30:10.620 scandalousness scale I don't know how that would even work I don't know how we would do it but if 0.98

01:30:14.300 we're scoring murah on the amount he smells like sewer that's 10 that's 10 that's a 10 out of 10 0.91

01:30:20.680 yeah just give them each an award and so san just i think we get 10 out of 10 hotness

01:30:25.140 terrifying hotness and just like earnestness and like like emerged from the womb just like

01:30:32.800 ready to run a revolution and then he got to so that's he did you know and when he was arrested

01:30:39.560 he's just like okay like i did what i wanted to do which was be in charge of a revolution

01:30:43.100 and be BFFs with Robespierre,

01:30:45.220 like my work on earth is done.

01:30:47.600 One last thing about Sanjus

01:30:49.260 is when he got up to the guillotine

01:30:50.860 and they were reading like

01:30:53.000 the part of the constitution

01:30:54.440 that's like you betrayed France 1.00

01:30:55.760 and therefore you shall die. 0.99

01:30:57.240 He like nodded at the constitution 0.98

01:30:58.920 the guy was holding was like,

01:31:00.440 I wrote that.

01:31:04.120 That's a good vibe.

01:31:05.160 Who else do we have? 0.97

01:31:05.800 So Marat, Sanjus.

01:31:07.720 So Marat gets the Oscar 0.73

01:31:08.760 the Grouch Memorial Award

01:31:10.020 for disgusting performance

01:31:11.440 in a supporting role.

01:31:12.700 Yeah.

01:31:13.100 Absolutely. Robespierre, I don't know. I would give him something like the Caligula Award for

01:31:19.600 just like reaching one step too far in your... Caligula Award for should have quit six months

01:31:25.040 ago. Yeah. Yeah. For like overstaying your welcome, for like not retiring when you should have.

01:31:32.840 I think Danton gets the Harvard Award for I can't believe you're making me root for Harvard at a

01:31:37.660 time like this. Like when I find myself on Danton's side, I'm like, how? Why are you the

01:31:43.040 good guy now yeah yeah that was a real a real surprise switch and then de moulin like he gets

01:31:48.040 the wife guy he sure does he gets he gets my favorite he's awarded my favorite i have um on

01:31:56.460 the just there's so many people on the fredigan memorial scandalousness scale on the website i

01:32:02.060 have like a whole list of them so i just tried to break it down into categories i just want to let

01:32:06.260 you know about this because i was thinking like when i was thinking i would do a lucille de moulin

01:32:10.080 episode i'm just like oh she's gonna get zero points for anything one point yeah one of the

01:32:17.120 so the if you go to vulgarhistory.com and click on scores people can see it so like there's the top

01:32:21.500 10 then we've honorable mention then the next section is called still notable um and then

01:32:27.500 we've got the um alison epstein dirtbag cul-de-sac which is everybody from 22.5 to um 24 almost all

01:32:37.360 of whom were episodes we did together and then the final category is this bottom um it's just

01:32:42.080 called great gowns lovely gowns and that's that's where lucille de milan so i would give her the

01:32:50.740 great gowns lovely gowns memorial you know what just like for somebody who woke up to the like

01:32:56.920 fascist world they were living in like five years too late she's like wait a minute days before she

01:33:03.700 died yeah wait this can affect me i never thought the tigers would eat my face absolutely yeah the

01:33:10.620 francesca ramsey never thought the tigers ate my face award goes to lucille de melon for

01:33:14.520 for too little too late honestly i think robespierre gets that one too

01:33:18.740 yeah yeah just when you're when people have been hyping you up for so long being like you're great

01:33:25.920 everything you do is great then you just kind of you lose i say you anyone robespierre is an

01:33:33.120 example of this like you just lose perspective of like what you start thinking everything i do is

01:33:37.660 great like you need to start doing things like declaring yourself a god of your own religion

01:33:42.060 yeah like you need to have if people if everyone around you is i was like yeah that's a great idea

01:33:47.060 it's like you need to get some new people around you you can't yeah yeah you need to not but

01:33:52.660 around robespierre of course everyone is saying yeah yeah that's a great idea because if they

01:33:55.840 don't he will kill them yeah so that's the robes beer um i don't know thank you allison this is

01:34:04.940 also interesting um and will you join me for another episode about a story that i'm gonna

01:34:10.780 tell you because a bunch of these guys are in it and also so is napoleon and we're gonna and

01:34:16.080 i just kind of need you to hold my hand to explain to me what's happening in the story

01:34:19.920 that i'm gonna tell you because i'm just like what is happening so we'll get through it together

01:34:24.060 let's do it we'll get through it together but that'll be next week on vulgar history everybody

01:34:27.660 so i will let you know that next week we allison is returning frankly i won't be coy about it if

01:34:38.980 you enjoy our conversations and next week allison is back and i'm going to be sharing a story this

01:34:43.780 time for allison to react to which gets us back into the the whole french the french revolution

01:34:50.020 women's point of view aspect of it. We're going to look at somebody who survived past 1793 to 1.00

01:34:57.980 talk about what happened in France after that, because we've had a real firm stop in a lot of

01:35:03.340 these French Revolution episodes. No one's made it past 1793, 1794. Next week, we're going to

01:35:09.700 talk about somebody, a woman who did and went on to thrive. And it's a good way to explain what

01:35:17.320 happened after the French Revolution. So that's what's coming up next week. More Alison. Get ready

01:35:22.000 for it. And I just wanted to remind you about two things. Firstly, I'm having an in-person meetup

01:35:26.880 coming up really soon on Sunday, July 20th in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. If you want to attend,

01:35:33.760 there's going to be a lot of people there. I'm pretty excited. This might be the biggest

01:35:36.720 meetup so far we've done for Vulgar History. It's going to be outdoors. So if you're worried about

01:35:41.460 meeting a big group of people, don't worry. Fresh air will be involved. So if you want to get the

01:35:45.540 details of where and when we're meeting, you can RSVP at vulgarhistory.com slash meetup. Basically,

01:35:51.580 just leave your email address there and I will contact you to let you know where and when

01:35:54.840 we're going to all be meeting. It's very exciting. So again, vulgarhistory.com slash

01:35:58.580 meetup for our in-person meetup in Toronto, Sunday, July 20th. And then of course, I have a

01:36:04.700 book that is available for pre-order. It's a nonfiction biography of Caroline of Brunswick,

01:36:09.400 Britain's uncrowned queen. It's called Rebel of the Regency, the Scandal Saga of Caroline of

01:36:13.440 Brunswick, Britain's queen without a crown, or maybe Britain's uncrowned queen. We're still

01:36:18.720 deciding, but the cover is going to be launching soon and we're going to have to make a decision.

01:36:23.420 So one or the other. But look up Rebel of the Regency by Anne Foster. You can add it on Storygraph

01:36:27.980 or on Goodreads. Actually, both of those things really help out just to show that there's hype

01:36:32.520 and that people are excited about this book. So the publishers are more likely to let me write

01:36:36.440 more books in the future. But also if you pre-order the book, which you can do from

01:36:41.040 in Canada and the United States from any major online retailer or from your local store as well.

01:36:47.560 Send me a copy of your receipt to take a screen capture of it and send it to me

01:36:51.180 at rebeltheragency.com. There's a little link there where you can say like, upload my,

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Vulgar History - July 09, 2025

French Revolution： The Messy Bitches Who Brought Down the Monarchy

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