Vulgar History - Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire (part two)

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00:00:48.560 Hey everyone, it's Anne here.

00:00:50.200 Just before we get into today's episode, I wanted to let you know about a fundraiser that I'm doing.

00:00:54.320 I'm selling t-shirts and hoodies that say Rebel, and all proceeds from these sales will support

00:00:58.820 the Women's Foundation of Minnesota. You can support this fundraiser at vulgarhistory.com

00:01:03.440 slash minnesota. That's vulgarhistory.com slash minnesota until February 8th, 2026.

00:01:10.100 Thank you and enjoy the episode.

00:01:11.740 welcome to vulgar history feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann foster and we are in

00:01:27.380 our regency era we're talking about all the scandalous people who lived in that that little

00:01:31.920 the early part of the 1800s so it's like jane austen era bridgerton era like that that's honestly

00:01:38.240 like we think of it as this kind of like nice polite time where everyone's just attending

00:01:41.920 balls and arranging marriages and if you listen to last week's episode we were talking about

00:01:45.660 Georgina Duchess of Devonshire last week we talked about her first part of her life which

00:01:49.440 was a lot of unhappy marriage a lot of hats a lot of drugs a lot of gambling and part two is going

00:01:55.860 to be more of all of those things I'm joined again by Amanda Mata welcome Amanda welcome back

00:02:00.920 hello thank you for having me once again I am there's so much we're going to get into like

00:02:05.820 Georgiana's life was wild in part one but it gets yet more wild in part two because she was kind of

00:02:12.140 she's holding on until she had a son like she had to have a legitimate heir and there couldn't be 0.52

00:02:16.540 any question about who that the paternity of that child but now that she's had a son she can do some

00:02:21.880 more stuff which she's gonna do which we're gonna talk about yeah but first there's a painting I

00:02:27.700 want to discuss with you and you wanted to just and I love that we both had the same painting

00:02:31.100 that we wanted to discuss. This is from, the painting is from her Georgiana part one era

00:02:36.080 earlier in her life, but it's so cool. We have to talk about it. Yeah. And it's not the Gainsborough

00:02:41.780 painting, which I think it's even funnier that we both had this other one in our notes, which just

00:02:48.000 speaks to how iconic it was. But yeah, it's from 1775. And I did not know it existed until I did

00:02:54.000 this research but it shows georgiana and two of her besties in the guise of the three witches

00:03:02.860 from macbeth they have pointy hats they have a cauldron it's like one of them is flying yeah

00:03:09.860 she she is isn't she yeah so it's georgiana she is throwing things into the cauldron elizabeth

00:03:15.920 lamb who is we learned the mother-in-law of caroline lamb another scandalicious figure from 1.00

00:03:22.660 this era or a little later. And Anne Dahmer, who is a sculptor, sculptress.

00:03:28.600 Anne Dahmer. We're going to learn more about her. I forget if it's next month or the month

00:03:32.900 after, but there will be an Anne Dahmer episode. And she was historically very good friends with

00:03:37.820 a woman who was her lifelong companion. She was a sapphic sculptor. And I love that she

00:03:43.720 was in this painting. It's so good. Of course, Georgina, like, you know, that account where

00:03:49.500 i think it's parody of trad wife content there's the mom who like only ever shows her face from

00:03:54.620 that very specific three-quarter angle like that's what georgiana is giving in this portrait

00:03:59.760 which i'm sure was the artist's choice and not hers but i also love her little dainty

00:04:04.780 witch's hat perched on top of her poof the whole idea the whole concept of it when i forget i think

00:04:11.400 i first came across this painting when i was researching ann damer and i was just like she's

00:04:16.000 with who is it she's with Georgina I'm like of course she is what are you doing here but just

00:04:21.360 kind of like three besties it's I don't even know it's just like putting it feels very contemporary

00:04:26.540 to me to just like hey let's put on like let's dress up as the power puff girls or let's dress

00:04:30.960 up as whatever when your friends like let's just do a photo shoot for fun yeah let's hire is this

00:04:36.740 portrait it's not Gainsborough it's somebody else or is it no it's somebody else it's at the natural

00:04:40.940 National Portrait Gallery. It's by Daniel Gardner. Let's hire this portrait artist to

00:04:46.140 paint us like the three witches from Macbeth, not as like, let's paint us as like three

00:04:51.500 muses of Greek history or as whatever. Like the three, it's such a funny picture and I love it

00:04:57.520 so much. And it really speaks to Georgina. It was just like... Well, apparently I was reading too

00:05:02.040 that these three women all would get together at Althorpe, which is where Georgina grew up and do

00:05:08.060 amateur theatric productions of Shakespeare.

00:05:12.120 Okay, this might be like a picture of a thing that they did.

00:05:16.000 Maybe, but also it could have just been for the drama.

00:05:18.460 Like, I don't know if they ever actually staged Macbeth.

00:05:20.920 They just, they had a theater at their disposal,

00:05:23.900 much like Marie Antoinette did, 0.70

00:05:25.580 where they would pretend to be famous actresses. 0.53

00:05:28.500 So there was that.

00:05:29.640 I love this painting so much.

00:05:31.020 And I love that Ann Dahmer is in it,

00:05:33.360 partially because like, I'd never heard of Ann Dahmer

00:05:35.100 before I started researching Carolina Brunswick,

00:05:37.180 who I wrote a book about called Rebel of the Regency that everybody should pre-order. 1.00

00:05:42.660 But Ann Dahmer was one of Carolina Brunswick's ride or dies. 1.00

00:05:46.360 Like when everybody abandoned Carolina Brunswick, when she was eschewed from all of society, 0.55

00:05:50.060 Ann Dahmer was just like, that's my girl and stuck by her side.

00:05:52.820 She's like, I am a lesbian sculptress who lives in Strawberry Hill and I'm, I'm right.

00:05:59.140 And so I'm like, I'm all about Ann Dahmer.

00:06:01.100 So I said that she and Georgina were friends because Ann Dahmer was a real one.

00:06:04.520 Like she was a good person to have on her side.

00:06:06.080 And she was like head on her shoulders. 1.00

00:06:07.900 Like there was a lot of bitches around Georgina, but Ann Damer was like a cool person. 1.00

00:06:13.920 Well, and all three of these women. 1.00

00:06:15.500 So the other one is Elizabeth Viscountess Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne.

00:06:20.800 So they all had like political influence too. 0.92

00:06:24.100 And for Georgina, she would have been kind of up and coming in that area.

00:06:27.260 But I guess painting them as the witches was a subtle way of like

00:06:31.180 commenting on how they influenced men in power.

00:06:35.880 because the witches in Macbeth

00:06:37.640 are the ones that encourage him to seize power.

00:06:40.800 And all three of the women here

00:06:42.400 are supporters of Charles Fox,

00:06:45.240 which I think is cute.

00:06:47.160 Saying he's Macbeth in this situation, I guess.

00:06:49.520 There's all these layers to it.

00:06:51.320 I love it.

00:06:51.660 I wonder if part of it is sort of like,

00:06:53.220 yeah, we know we're being criticized for doing this,

00:06:55.240 but just like we're owning it.

00:06:56.960 Yeah, but I mean, they don't,

00:06:59.580 I mean, they're not throwing gross stuff

00:07:01.260 like Eye of Newt or whatever,

00:07:04.100 baby's fingers into the cauldron.

00:07:05.280 they're throwing like lavender and Georgiana has like a very dainty little slipper peeking out from

00:07:11.340 under her dress and I guess it's Ann Dahmer has like all of these astrological symbols on her

00:07:17.480 dress which is very like 2012 tumbler core of her yeah but it's I love it I don't know how many more

00:07:24.580 ways I can say I love it it's exactly it's exactly like what you said like tumbler it's like it feels

00:07:29.500 very contemporary to me yeah together with your besties and have this portrait done it's like yeah

00:07:34.380 lots of elizabeth of vijay labren painted lots of women as lots of like greek you know goddesses

00:07:40.040 and stuff but just like this is just such a like this is more hardcore yeah it's just kind of like

00:07:45.760 it's not just like we're presenting ourselves as these like you know patrons of whatever it's just 0.98

00:07:49.780 like yeah we're witches fuck you like i love it yeah we're so charming we hold the reins of society 0.99

00:07:55.340 and like what are you gonna do about it yeah we're witches and we're also hot we're hot 1.00

00:08:00.340 witches. But here's what's up. Yeah, I love it. I noted on the National Portrait Gallery's

00:08:05.740 website, just a tidbit, it was accepted by the government in lieu of tax, which means at some

00:08:10.840 point, I'm guessing it was the Devonshire family. It could have been either Ann Damer's family or

00:08:16.040 Melbourne's family, though, that owned it. Couldn't pay somebody's death duties and had to give this

00:08:21.220 painting to the nation as a result. So indebted aristocracy is the reason we know that this

00:08:26.720 painting exists so it was maybe like a private painting and now we know like it was just kind

00:08:31.080 like let's just have a funny polaroid but now it's just like yeah the national portrait gallery okay

00:08:35.500 the gallery website says because the composition has no parallel in the artist's like body of work

00:08:41.420 it's assumed that the women were the ones suggesting that we made this picture so like

00:08:47.720 they would have commissioned him to do this so it is like a private inside joke almost just like

00:08:52.680 the nicknames we talked about georgiana having for people in her life georgiana was such a good

00:08:58.580 time like yeah everybody loved her because everybody should because she sounds great

00:09:03.800 so what where we where we last left her i mean listen to part one y'all but we left her she had

00:09:10.380 had a son she has three kids she's got little g she's got hario she kind of has four but also

00:09:15.860 kind of six if you count bess's and her husband's illegitimate children the nursery is very full of

00:09:22.660 children and not all of them. A lot of them share at least one parent. All of them share one parent.

00:09:27.920 All of them are the children. It's a blended family. So she had the children. And then what

00:09:34.100 happens? What happens is she is able to take a lover because she's had a son. Yes. And she's in 0.99

00:09:41.240 good company. Again, women of the era did this, but only after you had kind of fulfilled your 0.89

00:09:46.860 marital duties, or if you came up from being like kind of a courtesan, we're going to talk about

00:09:52.920 Emma Lady Hamilton eventually, you and I. She was another one of this era who like was famous for 1.00

00:09:59.560 her affair with, spoiler, Lord Nelson. But there was also Lady Jersey and Lady Melbourne who were, 0.85

00:10:06.460 was in that portrait with Georgiana, Lady Melbourne was. So there's a lot of women in this

00:10:12.260 era having affairs with men who were not their husbands. Some husbands were okay with it. Some

00:10:17.960 were not. Georgiana's sister, Harriet, who had a very unfortunate marriage, she had an affair that

00:10:24.660 did not go well. I don't know how far down that road you want to go. I think we won't get too

00:10:29.600 much into Harriet's story because I might do a whole episode about her later. But something I

00:10:33.600 wanted to mention that also happened in this era is so Georgiana has been besties with Prinny,

00:10:38.900 george the prince of wales yep we talked last time a bit about she became sort of like an advisor to

00:10:44.160 george the prince of wales aka brinny because georgiana is like she's all up in the like again

00:10:49.200 as much as we don't want to talk about wigs and tories she was all about wigs and tories and she

00:10:53.160 was very knowledgeable about the politics of it all and i respect that about her and i will not

00:10:57.720 talk about it because i'm not interested in that anyway so she was involved with george the prince

00:11:04.380 of wales like they got along and part of that i think is just like he liked to party she liked

00:11:07.720 to party. They were both in debt all the time. He was connecting her to creditors. Yeah. You

00:11:13.280 have to be friends with him in that situation. So I talk about this in my book, Rebel of the

00:11:18.420 Regency. This is where Georgina comes into my book. So Prinny was in love with this woman called

00:11:23.160 Mariah Fitzherbert, who was a widow. She's in my book too. I write a little bit about her

00:11:28.080 in my forthcoming book. Yeah. Your book, which is about... What's your book?

00:11:31.780 so my book it's forthcoming next spring so it's at the editor right now but it's called the royal

00:11:39.720 tea a commoner's guide to the british monarchy and so i go through every like area of life

00:11:45.340 in regards to the royals and it's just non-fiction kind of like a guidebook and i have a whole

00:11:50.540 chapter on scandals so i got to do some research on mariah and that was crazy i didn't know half

00:11:57.700 of that stuff. I will, I will, well, you know, not to spoil either of books, but I'll just say

00:12:02.020 how Georgina comes into it is that, so Prinny George, the Prince of Wales was obsessed with

00:12:06.380 this woman, Mariah Fitzherbert, who was a widow. So she was technically available to be with him,

00:12:12.780 to marry him, except for she was Catholic. And so at that time, and you know about all this from 0.71

00:12:18.520 your recent Royal work, but like the, there's various legislations that said like the heir to

00:12:23.180 the throne of Great Britain cannot marry a Catholic woman. If they do, then they disinherit 0.88

00:12:28.540 themselves effectively. Yeah. But then also what the rules were at that time were that if the heir

00:12:34.920 to the British throne was going to get married, he had to get his father's permission. So he knew

00:12:39.260 that his father would not give him permission to marry Mariah Fitzherbert because she's Catholic,

00:12:43.580 but he wanted to be with her. And she, in like a true, like Anne Boleyn adjacent way was like,

00:12:48.160 i will not be your mistress i will only be your wife so then he's like okay yeah yeah but it's

00:12:54.320 like he's not going to disinherit himself from the throne because no so what he does which is

00:13:00.160 the same thing that the character will does in an episode of fresh prince of bel-air effectively

00:13:04.420 yes he pretended to marry somebody so that he could sleep with her um so what prinny does is

00:13:10.960 he's like i want you to marry me and she's like well no i don't know if i want to do that and

00:13:14.540 And then Prinny, he had a habit of faking suicide attempts to get his wife. 0.86

00:13:18.760 Guess I'll die. 0.93

00:13:19.820 Yeah. 0.69

00:13:20.300 Yeah.

00:13:20.720 So then he wrote a letter.

00:13:22.460 Anyway, Georgina gets involved with this because Prinny claims to have tried to kill himself.

00:13:26.680 And then he's like, and I'll go through with it unless I can see Mariah Fitzherbert.

00:13:30.780 And somehow Georgina gets called upon to accompany them both because she's Prinny's friend or something.

00:13:36.680 So she's in the room witnessing this.

00:13:39.620 But I think she was called because Prinny wanted a witness. 0.99

00:13:41.740 And what he said was just like, Mariah, if you don't marry me, I will kill myself.

00:13:45.740 And Mariah's like, okay, well, don't do that, buddy. 0.99

00:13:48.980 Okay, I'll marry you.

00:13:50.100 And then Georgiana lends them a ring.

00:13:51.720 And that kind of is their like betrothal thing.

00:13:54.380 And then this becomes a secret because if anyone finds out that this is happening,

00:13:58.440 then he will be disinherited.

00:13:59.840 So it becomes a secret marriage.

00:14:02.440 Secret sexy marriage.

00:14:03.500 Super secrets.

00:14:04.280 I'm going to say not sexy.

00:14:05.500 Not sexy marriage.

00:14:06.220 Yeah.

00:14:06.780 When I said it.

00:14:07.820 We do have a fun ongoing thing on this podcast of super secrets. 1.00

00:14:11.320 sexy marriages, but this one is pretty is involved. So it is not sexy. And it is also

00:14:15.500 manipulative and pretty gross. Anyway, so he marries Mariah Fitzherbert. Georgina is one of 0.52

00:14:20.180 the only people that knows they're actually married. Nobody else can know because he will

00:14:24.200 be disinherited. She would have loved that to be the one person, like the witness. She would have

00:14:30.360 loved that. Yeah. Yeah. So this is, so she's involved just in that aspect of it. So I wanted

00:14:36.100 to mention that because it just shows how close she is to him. And he's the whole thing. This is

00:14:41.780 like, we won't get into this in this because we're just focusing on Georgina, but eventually

00:14:46.000 Prinney becomes the regent because his father, George III, just becomes incapable of leading

00:14:50.900 the country. But there's a previous scare where it seems like George III and Prinney is going to

00:14:57.620 be the regent. So Georgina is in such close proximity to the person who might be effectively

00:15:02.140 the king, like that she's got his ear, that she's influential. Like this just shows how

00:15:06.780 up there she is. Yeah, definitely. And of course, because of this, there were rumors she was having 0.57

00:15:13.060 an affair with the Prince of Wales also because he was having affairs with many people himself,

00:15:17.320 but I don't think that was true. I'm pretty confident that that wasn't true. I read,

00:15:23.200 there's a whole book that I read from mine. I didn't read the book, but it was a book about

00:15:27.200 the mistresses and wives of every British monarch. And it was a list of all of them.

00:15:32.140 evidence for all of them and what were their alleged children and georgiana was not listed

00:15:36.280 there like people said that she had an affair with him but it's like we know who he had affairs

00:15:40.920 with and it was these 35 people sure like 35 yeah i think it was wow anyway georgiana was busy with

00:15:48.000 other people which we'll get to yes but so what happens is she has a son the french revolution

00:15:54.740 happens she leaves france um she's back in england and okay so that we'll pick up from there

00:16:01.860 what's what's what's next for georgiana well okay so she once she's gotten the baby making taken

00:16:07.480 care of she her husband's now free to pay off some of her debts because he can mortgage his

00:16:12.200 estate i think she gets like financial benefits from producing a son as well which is crazy but

00:16:18.640 it would have been written into her marriage contract but now she's also free to kind of 0.70

00:16:22.660 enter, I like to think of it as like her self-actualization era. So like she's trying

00:16:27.960 on all these different things before she has her son collecting crystals, gambling, writing. But

00:16:33.840 in this latter half of her life, she is still kind of doing all that, but it's less frantic,

00:16:41.280 I would say. And she's also now free to take on lovers of her own. So before the big one that

00:16:48.720 most people focus on there was allegedly the unmarried duke of dorset which i don't know a

00:16:54.380 lot about that she is thought to have also had an affair of and then people also talked about

00:16:59.180 charles fox that's still kind of a question mark even amanda foreman like kind of refers to it at

00:17:04.420 some points like she might have been his lover as well as his political like patron in many ways but

00:17:10.920 that's a big question mark again i don't know where i fall on that so who should we do know

00:17:15.200 confirmed her lover is earl grey earl grey charles grey seven years younger than her so she's a

00:17:22.420 cougar we're talking about earl grey and i need to pause to have a conversation about earl grey

00:17:27.660 let's do it because i love earl grey tea i'm currently drinking earl grey tea i am always

00:17:34.500 excited honestly excited is the right word whenever i'm reading something in history and i realize

00:17:38.400 like wait this thing this phrase i've been saying that's a person like the same i wonder if i like

00:17:42.600 the earl of sandwich i'm like i was just thinking sandwich sandwich like sandwiches it's like oh

00:17:48.100 that's where sandwiches come up so earl gray tea has got a contentious history who invented it

00:17:54.260 but he certainly his family is credited he is the earl of earl gray tea his wife might have

00:18:01.140 invented it so you tell me the earl gray tea history that you're familiar with and then okay

00:18:05.960 yeah so this comes from research i actually did for the pennsylvania tea festival a couple years

00:18:11.880 ago so i know it's a very fun event in september every year near where i am obsessed with how many

00:18:18.040 festivals you just went to a butter carving festival like okay the pennsylvania farm show

00:18:22.880 please put some respect on the farm show yeah we have a lot of weird festivals here in pa

00:18:28.640 um but i did this talk on like the royal history of tea and so in researching that

00:18:34.700 the earl gray connection comes up a lot and nobody really knows like how it got its name but

00:18:40.940 it's kind of agreed now that Earl Grey loved Earl Grey tea and made it popular, but probably

00:18:49.200 didn't invent it. So the guy who did would be Sir Joseph Banks, who I don't know if you've ever

00:18:55.100 talked about on this podcast, but if you do talk about the science of the Georgian era,

00:19:00.560 he comes up a lot. He was the imperial botanist to King George III. And he's the person who first

00:19:07.620 suggested growing tea in India, which Britain has colonized at this point. So he has a lot of

00:19:15.080 really strange ideas about how to grow tea in India, including importing it from China,

00:19:20.660 because he doesn't really realize that India has its own native tea plants, which is funny in and

00:19:26.660 of itself. But he also proposes at some point that the British East India Company invests in

00:19:32.660 an alternative supply of tea because China is monopolizing it. How dare they, this thing that

00:19:38.740 they've grown for centuries. Anyway, so in this quest to come up with a new pipeline for tea to

00:19:45.500 import to Britain, because it's very popular at this point, he kind of gets turned onto this blend

00:19:52.080 that in China grows next to orange blossoms. And for that reason, in China, a lot of blends of tea

00:20:00.240 are flavored with orange. The problem is it's hard to import that to Britain. So instead he

00:20:06.500 substitutes bergamot oil, which is not native to China. It's grown in Europe. But he, Banks finds

00:20:13.280 this to be like the closest substitute for the neroli oil that comes from orange plants in China.

00:20:19.740 So it's a colonial substitution, but it creates what we now think of as the Earl Grey blend.

00:20:27.200 and banks was supposedly a very close friend of charles gray who loved the blend helped to spread

00:20:35.880 it and made it popular so banks is said to have named it after him as like a thank you gesture

00:20:41.560 for i would i would assume getting him a return on his years of investment in the tea trade because

00:20:49.060 like this was not cheap he he this was like 30 years of of work and colonialism trying to set

00:20:57.480 up tea plantations in a country that already had its own native tea production like a lot of work

00:21:03.060 and effort went into this so I think that's why he named it Earl Grey in honor of his friend well

00:21:07.420 and this is this is him this is he Earl Grey who Georgina is about to embark on a yes very

00:21:13.580 considerable love affair with is that Earl Grey. So I was excited, but also it's the sort of thing

00:21:19.560 like I'm always, you know, I'm always learning new things. Like I had finished my book. My book

00:21:23.600 was submitted and I read the Amanda Foreman book and I'm just like, Oh, now I know more about Earl

00:21:29.040 Grey. I'm like, he was in my book. Cause he just shows up as like a political guy. It's like,

00:21:32.040 he's the prime minister. Yeah. He eventually, exactly. So I was just like, and that was where

00:21:36.080 I was like Earl Grey from Earl Grey T. So what I need to tell you is this is a small advertisement

00:21:40.560 for a business that I just discovered.

00:21:43.480 Unpaid advertisement, if you want to clear that,

00:21:45.680 just a place that I'm now obsessed with.

00:21:47.420 So I'm from Halifax, Nova Scotia,

00:21:49.380 but this store does have a website.

00:21:50.800 It's called the Tea Pothicary.

00:21:52.160 You would be obsessed, Amanda. 0.99

00:21:53.620 So it's a woman who I think is our soulmate 0.98

00:21:55.660 who researches tea blends from history 0.85

00:21:58.720 and then recreates them and then sells them.

00:22:00.760 Oh my, I'm bookmarking this right now.

00:22:03.980 No, exactly.

00:22:04.860 So I visited there when I was last visiting Halifax, Nova Scotia.

00:22:07.940 Again, they have a website.

00:22:08.920 It's like teapothicarytea.com.

00:22:10.320 sense and sensibilities yeah oh my god so she has two strains one of them is like historical

00:22:16.580 recreations of teas and one of them is like teas inspired by literature so i do have an i didn't

00:22:20.800 bring with me but i do have the dorian gray earl gray tea which is like a sinful earl gray tea

00:22:25.580 but i also have with me i have the gray's mixture i'll just show you the gray's mixture okay and

00:22:33.000 then she has like little historical fun facts on the back of all the tea bags so it says earl gray

00:22:37.980 comes from a criminal and sordid past.

00:22:39.880 The first known appearance came in the 1830s

00:22:41.820 when two tea merchants sued one another

00:22:43.600 over the rights to sell this new tea blend.

00:22:45.740 It's being sold as an expensive Chinese tea,

00:22:47.740 but was in fact a forgery.

00:22:49.400 The flavor came from the addition of bergamot

00:22:51.100 and a number of other ingredients

00:22:52.220 added to lower quality tea.

00:22:54.060 The merchants succeeded in getting this tea banned,

00:22:56.660 but it was not long before it reappeared

00:22:57.920 under the name Grey's Mixture

00:22:59.080 and eventually Girl Grey.

00:23:00.960 Oh, so it was a copyright battle too.

00:23:03.220 Yeah.

00:23:03.400 That's interesting.

00:23:04.440 So this is the Grey's Blend.

00:23:05.600 They also have the Dorian Grey.

00:23:06.660 there's also lady gray tea as well i love the one inspired by um thomas jefferson's

00:23:13.920 plantation monte cello is the name of the blend that's fun i want to show you this one as well

00:23:19.940 they have this is their royal tea um queen victoria's favorite tea oh it's like we don't

00:23:26.280 love queen victoria but she also did love tea she did she loved darjeeling anyway so as the queen

00:23:33.020 was an admired fan setter the rage for darjeeling with lemon soon to cold so now now you two can

00:23:37.920 drink tea like royalty i visited this store and i was just like i am obsessed with this store like

00:23:42.900 the entire concept of just like recreating tea from history i'm just like could not be more and

00:23:47.660 core love possibly so i've been trying to find a way to bring this up in the podcast and i just did

00:23:52.900 that was no it was like tailor-made um fabulous so yeah georgiana um gets to have an affair

00:24:01.540 with Earl Grey. So you know what? She's probably drinking Earl Grey tea. She's probably drinking

00:24:06.360 tea with bergamot if she's hanging out with him. It might have been a little early just from what

00:24:10.520 I know about the history of tea. Like at this time, like twinings in London would have been

00:24:15.400 the only like place you could have gone to drink it because it doesn't become like it's a novelty

00:24:21.420 at this point. So it doesn't become like a mainstay until Victoria pretty much. And it's

00:24:27.720 her friend, her bestie, the Duchess of Bedford, who introduces like afternoon tea because she

00:24:34.900 complains that she gets a sinking feeling in the afternoon because dinner was so late in this era,

00:24:40.860 but lunch was a little too early. So it's what I like to compare to like the 3 p.m. slump where

00:24:45.900 you just need a little something like a British afternoon tea. Yeah. So and she was Victoria's

00:24:52.360 Duchess of the Lady of the Bedchamber. So that's kind of where it becomes part of British culture.

00:24:57.720 so Georgina probably she probably would have had tea but most likely not the Earl Grey blend she

00:25:03.280 was having the real thing you know the real Earl Grey um but like it would have been more it was

00:25:08.780 advertised as a health drink at this time so the more you know actually speaking of speaking of

00:25:14.200 because this is we warned you last time there will be tangents but I was really excited because

00:25:17.940 Earl Grey like that's my beverage that's what I drink that's the only tea I drink I'm all but I

00:25:22.540 love a London fog moment like anything Earl Grey is so the fact that Earl Grey is in the story

00:25:27.440 i'm excited but speaking of the medicinal properties georgiana health problems she has

00:25:31.960 migraines yes throughout her whole life um which is and she's living in a time like god knows like 0.99

00:25:38.180 even now like migraines like no one really knows you can't fix it you can treat it but back then

00:25:44.020 it's like we'll treat it with leeches we'll treat it with bloodletting like yeah that's what was

00:25:48.940 happening and so like she'd have to take to her room in the dark like she had migraines like we

00:25:53.580 understand them now. She eventually like, didn't she lose the sight in one of her eyes because of 0.93

00:25:59.120 her like headaches? We will get to the eyeball. The eyeball stuff. That's later in her life, 0.97

00:26:05.720 but she does have health problems. So I think perhaps this is part of why she's turning to

00:26:09.980 opium. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Various points of pain in her life that she's trying to quell. And at

00:26:16.340 this point she's done the baby making thing. So she has another outlet available to her, which is

00:26:21.600 affairs so we know for a fact she had this one no sure like just to remind everybody from last 1.00

00:26:28.080 time in case her husband sucks and hates her so yeah and she just wants love she just wants 0.99

00:26:35.540 affection and so she finds somebody who likes her who is earl gray who is at this point you 0.98

00:26:40.040 said what 17 years younger or something uh seven years younger yeah seven years yeah so not too

00:26:45.560 bad but he yeah his like career is he's active for like another 40 years after he's an up-becoming

00:26:52.200 wig right obviously she would never have an affair with a tori like she's very like in the movie he's

00:26:56.720 played by dominic west i think it is he's very cute in the movie i think that's who it is nope

00:27:03.720 not dominic west sorry the other one the younger one cooper dominic cooper dominic cooper yeah yep

00:27:11.240 so he's yeah i assume dreamy um he is an up-and-coming political figure and she's still

00:27:19.400 active in politics at this time so she has an affair with him and it goes really well until

00:27:25.520 she gets pregnant not by her husband the thing about this is like one would think i had thought

00:27:33.080 it's like well she could just pretend that her husband's the father but it's like he knows and

00:27:37.800 she knows that they have not had sex in a really long time like if she's because she's done her

00:27:42.080 job she's had a boy yeah and like he hates her like why would they he's called best like he's

00:27:48.180 fine yeah yeah anyways best continues her second son with the duke let me find it here so i feel

00:27:56.600 jordana has her son in 1790 the two sons are like simultaneous best's son and her son with the same

00:28:03.180 man, I think they were potentially conceived the same week. Like when Georgiana and Bess look at

00:28:08.020 the dates. Yeah, they're very close. And Bess's second son is named Sir Augustus Clifford. They

00:28:15.380 call him Clifford or Cliff because that is one of the Duke's subsidiary titles. So they're not being

00:28:20.980 subtle about this at the same time, which sucks. At this time, like at first initially when Bess

00:28:25.320 first got pregnant by the Duke, she kind of tried to hide it. She went in exile and all this stuff.

00:28:29.540 But now she's just kind of like, yeah, it happened again. And Georgiana's like, that's cool.

00:28:32.580 yeah you're my bestie like let's let's have sons we're like that time when all those kardashian

00:28:36.760 sisters all had babies at the same time it's like we're putting it together the pregnancy pact yeah 0.99

00:28:40.800 yes that was like a real thing they tried to dissuade us from doing in high school i remember

00:28:46.260 you're from that era that's how relevant it was to my era yeah yeah well these two had children

00:28:52.580 by the same man and the son and they were both sons and they're born at the same time um

00:28:56.820 but now Georgina is pregnant again and this is the issue because eventually it becomes

00:29:01.980 actually um it wasn't this pregnancy because this becomes a whole thing one of her other 0.85

00:29:06.160 pregnancies because Georgina is such a trendsetter so she people started wearing fake pregnancy 0.99

00:29:11.720 bellies because she was pregnant like she was so much just like gosh I heard Georgina had a 0.93

00:29:17.680 pregnant belly so I got like without they like that's foam or whatever they had back then like

00:29:22.060 cork yeah to look pregnant she was pregnant and she looks so beautiful pregnant and was just like

00:29:27.400 let's do that too like this you still got that influence it's bananas that is but she with this 1.00

00:29:34.380 pregnancy though she does not get to be the darling of society she essentially gets exiled 0.92

00:29:39.560 the duke sends her to france where she is going to give birth which means she is separated from

00:29:46.660 her other children and this is like forman calls it the great tragedy of her life because she

00:29:52.020 loved her kids. She loved being a mom. And she says the Duke essentially kidnapped her children

00:29:57.540 in revenge for her love affair. His brutal assertion of male right forced Georgina to

00:30:02.820 redefine herself. And from that moment, her life was no longer about possibilities,

00:30:06.820 but about consequences. It's very poetic. Well, and this is where I felt like when we're

00:30:11.440 knowing this would be a two-part episode, I felt like part one, part two. And the thing about her, 0.54

00:30:17.340 I just want to mention, I forget how you phrased it there, but it's the parental authority. We

00:30:21.960 see this also in the story of Carolina Brunswick, which I talk about in my book, Rebel of the

00:30:24.980 Regency. Well, and Bess in this same story, like her husband had kept her children away from her.

00:30:31.120 Yeah. Part of what kept women in terrible marriages. It's because husbands had entire 0.94

00:30:36.100 control over the children. Like if like, yeah, the wife could leave the husband, but she, 0.99

00:30:41.040 until I want to say like the early 1900s, like women had no rights to their children. The 1.00

00:30:46.520 children were the property of the husband. So like all these husbands could do this. And it's

00:30:51.500 obviously horrible for anyone in this situation and it's in Georgina's story it's horrible for

00:30:56.500 her especially because she was so affectionate towards her children she was so close to like

00:31:00.420 again like if I just think back to like famously Princess Diana like you just see you see the

00:31:04.800 videos of her like Prince Harry is a toddler like running towards her and flinging her arms around

00:31:09.440 him it's just like she had such a tactile yeah like relationship with her children in a way that

00:31:14.060 not a lot of mothers of her station would have had so it was even harder on her and the children

00:31:19.520 to be parted because they were so close. Definitely. And so, Jordana, she goes to France.

00:31:24.700 She is convinced she's going to die in childbirth. She is so afraid. And I think part of that has to

00:31:30.420 do with the fact that she's away from her living children. So, she writes a letter, again, in her

00:31:35.080 blood to her baby son. What's his name? William? Yeah. She says to him in this letter, as soon as

00:31:43.660 you're old enough to understand this letter, it will be given to you. It contains the only present

00:31:47.620 I can make you. My blessing written in my blood. Alas, I am gone before you could know me,

00:31:53.180 but I loved you. I nursed you nine months at my breast. I love you dearly. Spoiler,

00:31:57.460 she does not die in childbirth, but she was very afraid that she would never see her kids again.

00:32:02.400 And she also, so she went, like her husband sent her to the continent, like for all of this stuff.

00:32:08.220 But the reason I believe that everyone that he said she was going was because her sister Harriet

00:32:13.080 was ill, which she was often. And so Georgiana was accompanying her. And then Bess also went

00:32:18.300 along because it's just like, when is she not there? Yeah. So it's just kind of like the three

00:32:22.780 of them off the, they have like maybe Bess's children are with them. I feel like, or maybe

00:32:26.540 some of Harriet's, like there's so many children, like Dana's sister, Harriet has children, Bess

00:32:33.160 has children, Georgiana has children, Georgiana's children, not with them. Some of the other kids

00:32:37.780 I think are with them anyway so it's it's like the three of them just kind of like in exile

00:32:43.180 together but ostensibly because of Harriet's various health concerns which I might again do

00:32:48.100 an episode about later although it's really dark but her husband seemingly kept trying to murder

00:32:52.300 her and she kept having health problems that happen when you're being almost murdered by poison

00:32:59.640 constantly anyway so that's like the alleged reason that's the alleged reason that they're

00:33:04.160 on the continent so everyone like people in england kind of knew or suspected there were

00:33:08.640 rumors or gossip about that georgiana was having an illegitimate child but it was not official

00:33:12.960 knowledge right yeah you brought up a good point though like why didn't they just pretend it was

00:33:17.660 the duke's child like everyone else wouldn't necessarily know but that must have just been

00:33:21.620 the state of their relationship and the fact that she was so they talk about her being unaffected

00:33:26.560 as a person like she's just so earnest and straightforward in all of her dealings like

00:33:31.820 maybe it was just never a possibility to pretend it wasn't charles gray's child i don't know and i

00:33:38.280 think she's also such a romantic like i think she would have she wouldn't have i don't think she

00:33:43.780 would she had it in her to deceive anybody except about her gambling debts but i think she she

00:33:50.220 wouldn't have wanted to claim that the child was anyone else's except for charles gray's because

00:33:53.620 she was yeah she's all about him at this point but what i find is interesting so they're basically

00:33:58.440 She does not die on childbirth

00:34:00.000 There in Europe

00:34:01.380 And what I find interesting

00:34:03.780 Is like during this era

00:34:05.100 It says

00:34:06.080 The book

00:34:06.900 Amanda Foreman's book

00:34:07.660 The Duchess says

00:34:08.380 Georgina had been free

00:34:09.720 Of the urge to gamble

00:34:10.680 During her exile

00:34:11.640 She had been so preoccupied

00:34:12.980 With other interests

00:34:14.140 Especially her scientific studies

00:34:15.620 The problem had never arisen

00:34:17.220 I find that really interesting

00:34:19.200 Because she's had this

00:34:20.240 Gambling problem

00:34:21.300 For most

00:34:22.640 All of her adult life

00:34:23.700 Starting when she was a teenager

00:34:24.940 But in this era

00:34:26.220 When she was

00:34:26.860 You would think maybe

00:34:27.860 the most distressed. So part of it could just be like, who is she surrounded by in England? Like

00:34:34.460 her mother, also like gambling all of her friends. She couldn't avoid being her social circle. But

00:34:40.040 if no one around her was gambling, she could seemingly easily not do it. So that's interesting.

00:34:46.740 And now for a quick advertising break.

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00:36:37.840 The world of Sonic the Hedgehog

00:36:41.740 has been thrust into a not-so-dark,

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00:36:47.520 that probably nobody saw coming.

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00:37:19.020 Wait, what?

00:37:22.100 All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog presents The Chaotix Case Files.

00:37:30.080 Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:33.100 The chaotix are on the case.

00:37:38.620 And we're back.

00:37:39.920 and she i think tried to fill a hole of like affection and yeah just like having a good time

00:37:46.760 with gambling when she was in britain but now she's on the continent she's in france she's 0.97

00:37:51.500 separated from her children so she she yeah i don't know she like probably wouldn't have been

00:37:56.740 looking to fill the hole in the same way and she's older too yeah true and she's like traveling 0.53

00:38:02.520 around i think she did some like and what says here she climbed to the top of mount vesuvius

00:38:07.060 she boat trips around the island she investigated ancient ruins like she kept herself busy even as

00:38:14.700 she was like desperately missing her children and we need to talk about so she has a daughter

00:38:18.660 who's named eliza yes and this child what is decided is that this child would be given to

00:38:25.320 earl gray's parents to raise as his younger sister his much younger sister right yeah so

00:38:33.500 this is like a condition of the duke eventually letting georgiana come home he he forbids her to

00:38:40.600 return until the baby is placed elsewhere and she agrees like not to bring it back with her

00:38:47.300 but even so it's like two years she's away for two years before she can come back home to her

00:38:52.520 children um so even though she did everything he supposedly asked of her went away to have the baby

00:38:59.500 gave it to Gray's family. She's still gone for like an extra year and she writes letters to her

00:39:05.220 kids. So they're allowed to like have contact with her, but she isn't allowed to return until

00:39:12.700 she also renounces Charles Gray and says she won't have an affair with him anymore. 0.95

00:39:18.380 And that was basically his, he, her shitty husband effectively says like, I will take you back. If 0.97

00:39:24.340 you renounce Charles Gray, if you will never have anything to do with your child, you will

00:39:29.280 never tell the child a bit which is so shitty because do we need to remind this man that his 0.78

00:39:34.380 illegitimate children from other women live in Georgina's house yeah with her raising them 0.51

00:39:41.200 multiple other women have had multiple children and they all are being raised by Georgina and her

00:39:47.820 and she's such a he's doing this I think in part because he knows that this will devastate her

00:39:54.360 like this is why this is his condition like he knows how much she loves children he knows how

00:39:58.600 she loves her children. She knows how much this will affect her. So it's basically either stay

00:40:03.300 with your child and be penniless and never see your other children or abandon this one child

00:40:09.920 and come back to your life you had before. And she, it's a hard decision, but she decides to

00:40:15.300 estrange herself from Eliza and go back to her shitty husband. 0.99

00:40:21.200 Because that's a better option. Like also she has all the debts, right? She can't. 0.99

00:40:25.040 She's the Duchess. People would start to ask questions. And I mean, she is eventually allowed

00:40:29.600 to see Eliza, the child, as she grows up. She kind of is in her life as like a godparent or

00:40:36.140 a favorite aunt would be, but Eliza doesn't know Georgiana's her mom. I think everyone else knows,

00:40:42.860 but Eliza doesn't know. Eliza doesn't know for a long time. She learns after Georgiana dies that

00:40:48.040 that was her biological mother. And eventually she names her own daughter Georgiana and her

00:40:53.480 second daughter is elizabeth georgiana so eventually she knows and georgiana also writes

00:40:59.340 her poetry there's like really lavish poems one of them she says unhappy child of indiscretion

00:41:07.640 poor slumber on a breast forlorn pledge of reproof of past transgression dear though

00:41:14.600 unfortunate to be born so that's a really heartbreaking like tension like i love this

00:41:19.960 child, even though she was born out of like really terrible circumstances all around,

00:41:24.920 like everyone was miserable because she came along. So the psychological trauma, I guess,

00:41:30.680 continues into the next generation in that way. And part of like when she would go to visit Eliza

00:41:35.340 as just kind of like this friend of the family, she would see that they were raising her in what

00:41:39.820 was a more conventional parenting style, especially they were older parents, right? Because they were

00:41:43.780 her lover's parents, right? They would be grandparent age, but they were raising her

00:41:47.260 much more emotionally distant than the like Rousseauian way that her jade wanted to. So she

00:41:52.640 saw that her daughter was not getting the hugs and the affection that she would have given. So I think

00:41:56.460 that was very distressing for her to see that her child was not being raised the way that she would

00:42:00.260 have herself. Yeah, that's a good point. But she eventually, she gives up Charles Gray so she can

00:42:07.080 go home to return to her other children. She writes at one point about giving him up. She

00:42:13.520 says she had left her heart and soul. He has one consolation that I have given him up for my

00:42:18.260 children only. So I think she really loved him. Yeah. And he does get married. Charles Gray's a

00:42:24.340 woman also called Mary. And then Georgiana becomes great friends with her. Yeah. They name one of

00:42:29.780 their kids, Georgiana as well. Gray marries a woman named Mary Elizabeth Ponsonby. They have

00:42:36.500 16 children together. 16. 10 boys and six girls. One of them is stillborn. So that's insane.

00:42:44.500 And it was Mary Ponsonby. You know, God bless your inner organs from that experience.

00:42:50.660 Yeah. And she was a prime minister's wife. Yeah. Couldn't be easy.

00:42:54.680 And Lady Grey Tea. Lady Grey Tea. That's the lady.

00:42:58.860 It must be, right? Right? Yeah. And I think part of what I read about, 0.81

00:43:03.220 just to get back to my favorite topic, Earl Grey tea. I believe that she was such a well-renowned

00:43:08.860 hostess. Like she would serve the Earl Grey tea at her parties. And that's part of what popularized 0.95

00:43:12.660 it was because people drink it at their house and they're like, well, this is good. What's this

00:43:15.880 one? Oh, it's called Earl Grey. Oh, well, we'll serve it at my house too. So I think she was

00:43:20.580 involved in the popularization of the tea. Fantastic. So yeah, G kind of, I mean, she

00:43:25.840 parts ways with them for the short term, but you know, eventually I think these are all people in

00:43:30.240 the same social circle, the political stuff still linking them all together. So when things cool

00:43:36.120 down, um, it seems like they can still be in touch. Um, but she, I mean, this is kind of like

00:43:42.780 the end of the Keira Knightley movie when she like ends her affair and goes home. She lives

00:43:47.480 another 15 years. Like she's still got like another couple chapters of her life story, which

00:43:53.080 This is, it's very much a new era for her. And this is an era of her being more, less in the public eye. And the movie is raising her children who she has, like reconnecting with them after she was apart from them for two years, especially her son Hart, who's a baby when she left when she came back. He didn't recognize her. He would scream when she tried to hug.

00:44:12.460 eventually turns out he'd had a fever at one point that in her absence and it made him deaf

00:44:18.180 like partially deaf and this effect nobody realized that at first and then so Georgiana

00:44:24.480 blamed herself for not being there because maybe she would have noticed the fever and she could

00:44:27.620 have treated it but especially he and her have a really rocky road to reconnecting because he 0.96

00:44:32.520 doesn't remember her and he's got this like disability now and he doesn't like being touched

00:44:38.420 but she's a very touching person right so i think she's she's not so much of like the

00:44:44.560 you know starting trends and going out on the town and throwing parties she's much just like

00:44:48.580 taking care of her children slash we mentioned before she loves her crystals she loves her 0.91

00:44:53.480 minerals yeah she pivots even in terms of politics like she's still keeping up to date with stuff but 0.98

00:44:59.400 she's not out there like you know rallying up the boat or anything what she's doing is filling her 0.98

00:45:04.200 days with lectures at the Royal Academy, conducting chemistry experiments and studying

00:45:08.540 mineralogy. The fossils and minerals she had acquired while abroad formed the core of a

00:45:12.940 collection to which she was continually adding. So she just becomes, she embraces her woman in STEM.

00:45:17.640 Yeah. Well, STEAM, because she's also writing her poetry. She even wrote a song for a play that

00:45:22.980 becomes a hit, like a smash hit. So it's, it is a new era for her. I also want to note,

00:45:30.000 there were some sources saying she had a miscarriage during this era,

00:45:33.540 but she is at home with the Duke being a dutiful duchess at this point.

00:45:39.980 He has gout also. So she's like home caring for him.

00:45:43.080 So there is speculation.

00:45:44.260 The relationship between them also takes on a new tone and like softens.

00:45:49.000 But I think that's only speculation.

00:45:51.320 I think that what we will see in as the story progresses is this is kind of

00:45:54.680 the best their relationship ever is when she's taking care of him as he's

00:45:58.140 dealing with various illnesses because all she's doing is paying attention to him and not being a

00:46:03.200 famous celebrity in the world. And he's like, I like this. I like this wife. Yeah. Do we think

00:46:09.580 he has mommy issues? Do you think that's what it is? He has various issues. His parents died

00:46:16.680 when he was very young, I think. And there's something about his role. He was sort of like

00:46:22.760 Prinny. Prinny always wanted to join the army, but he wasn't allowed to. I think this group

00:46:27.680 wanted to do more than he was allowed to because he was the heir to this vast fortune. So I think

00:46:32.460 he felt trapped by circumstances. Yeah. We never said he, he becomes the Lord High Treasurer of

00:46:38.720 Ireland and the governor of Cork. He's also the Lord Lieutenant of Derbyshire. And like I said,

00:46:44.000 in the first part, he's invited to join the cabinet, but he declines every time. So like,

00:46:49.100 I think there you can see he he is doing his duty but like nothing else no more no extra

00:46:55.340 it's he's an interesting figure to me compared to just people like Louis the 16th or other

00:47:01.300 husbands that I've talked about recently on the podcast where it's like yeah he's not a good

00:47:05.840 husband to Georgina but it's not because he's not interested in women it's not because he's

00:47:10.800 not interested in sex it's he like there's something going on with him internally like he

00:47:15.460 it seems like he and Bess have like an okay relationship and he treats her much better

00:47:21.280 than he treats Georgina so it's like yeah I can't get a handle on this guy really yeah and yeah I

00:47:27.920 don't necessarily want to read a biography of him but I wonder what would be in there I want someone

00:47:32.260 to give me the cliff's notes of that biography I do want to make it clear that Bess is still on

00:47:36.180 the scene obviously yes very very much so ever since she entered this story she's never not

00:47:40.900 No, she's here. She's also doing better because her estranged husband, so not the Duke, but the guy who abandoned her and kept her children from her for quite a while, he dies. And because they were still married, she gets a nice widow's settlement. She also gets her two sons back. So they're restored to her and she is free to remarry.

00:48:04.480 And I found a little bit more about Bess than I had originally known.

00:48:08.960 So just like her best friend, Georgina, is a duchess, she now wants to be a duchess.

00:48:13.780 So she first goes after the Duke of Richmond, whose wife has also recently died.

00:48:19.780 I guess the Duke had also always been infatuated with Bess.

00:48:24.740 They kind of have a will they won't they for like a year,

00:48:27.700 even though they are mourning their respective spouses.

00:48:30.440 They can't get married right away.

00:48:31.560 and by the end of that year he like isn't really about it anymore he doesn't want to marry her

00:48:36.940 so she strikes out the first time she tries to become a duchess like her bestie georgiana

00:48:41.720 so she's just like she's never not striving best is just like the archetypical like gold digger

00:48:47.500 yeah she just wants like security and a home yeah absolutely georgiana so she's doing her

00:48:57.180 own science experiments and stuff you know writing songs or whatever but she's also she became a

00:49:02.060 patron of promising scientists just like in her earlier era she'd been a patron of young actors

00:49:06.920 and one of her most notable successes was she sponsored this guy doctors dr thomas beddows

00:49:11.800 whose institute she helped to establish um which resulted in the discovery of laughing gas oh i bet

00:49:19.060 she loved that stuff i bet wow okay i didn't know that um and then she we mentioned the eye issue

00:49:28.540 so this is around the time that she i don't know i didn't consult with any of my doctor friends

00:49:33.120 about this but so she has migraines like that's an ongoing thing that she's dealing with in her

00:49:37.140 life and then also she just gets a swollen eye it's like the size of like it's bad it's huge

00:49:46.320 it's like i don't know some sort of infection and then the doctors are like well so they gave

00:49:50.540 her all kinds of like horrific olden times she just she could only stay in a darkened room like

00:49:55.740 she couldn't see light yeah they at one point in an attempt to increase blood flow to her head

00:50:01.200 to counteract the inflammation of her eye they squeeze her neck to the point that she's like

00:50:05.520 almost strangled to death because that's what medicine was doing at this time it's just gruesome

00:50:11.600 There is an article on Amanda Foreman's website where she quotes I.G. Schraibman, who has written about this.

00:50:17.920 And like, there's some conjecture on what she would have been suffering from.

00:50:21.680 So they suggest that she had cavernous sinus thrombosis.

00:50:27.460 Whatever it was, she did eventually recover from it.

00:50:31.740 Her eye went down to normal size, but she lost vision in that eye for good.

00:50:35.740 And I think her vision, her other eye was affected.

00:50:37.720 But this is also sort of like, and she was like, oh my God, I'm so deformed.

00:50:41.220 nobody can look at me but people who saw her at the time were like she looks fine she's like 0.66

00:50:45.740 but she's just like oh like it's like you look fine but you know for somebody who was such a

00:50:51.620 glamorous figure you know to look even slightly different so she was just living this sort of

00:50:55.220 quiet life like she would be she got really involved in like landscaping like botany on

00:51:00.900 her various estates um she she gets back into politics too she does back into politics yes

00:51:07.780 Yeah, because the Whigs have been kind of out in the cold for two decades and they're kind of reforming at this time. So she briefly gets back into politics. I don't know much more than that.

00:51:20.280 Well, I think she just kind of like she's never not been involved in it, but this is where she gets back into politics and that's where her husband is just kind of like, he's unhappy. He liked when all that she did was take care of him. And now that the attention is back on her and she's other hobbies, he starts treating her more cruelly because that's his psychology.

00:51:36.580 Yeah. Also in 1800, she gets to see little G come out into society. So her oldest daughter, 0.71

00:51:46.880 she marries Lord Morph in 1801. That is the son of the Earl Carlisle. So this is,

00:51:53.500 Georgina gets to see one of her children get married and that's the only one, sadly.

00:51:57.280 Yeah. And in terms of like coming out in society, like this is the Bridgerton of it all, right?

00:52:00.700 It is. Yeah. 1800, we're in the Regency, right?

00:52:04.720 No, we're not. Still not.

00:52:05.800 yet no but um the balls are being held like you have to go and meet queen charlotte and like

00:52:11.140 introduce yourself and stuff and so her older daughter little g looks resembles her mother i

00:52:16.220 think little g is much more princess diana personal she's much like she's tall and striking

00:52:20.700 but shy where georgiana is tall and striking and like both the duke and duchess mixed together in

00:52:27.100 little g yeah crazy how that works yeah interesting um but so little g makes her debut in society and 0.99

00:52:34.420 it's like wow she's striking but she like she's not you know built for this world yeah but she

00:52:39.880 does she finds a wealthy husband and I don't know like I think Georgiana ever since the eye incident 0.97

00:52:46.920 like she's and she's always had migraines and stuff like she's involved in politics she's kind

00:52:51.320 of you know helping out behind the scenes but she's like certainly slowing down and I think

00:52:56.200 that's a lot of health related but you know it's not slowing down it's her gambling debts so

00:53:01.740 at some point in this kind of like final era she does come clean asterix not still not entirely

00:53:09.600 right about how many debts she had and her husband tried to pay off as many as he could

00:53:14.120 but like she's she really i think she's sort of like a later in life well just not that her life

00:53:19.780 is long but like towards the end of her life just she has sort of like a religious breakthrough

00:53:24.780 where she's like i want to do better i want to be better like and i need to sort of like in

00:53:29.280 Alcoholics Anonymous. It's like, I need to make amends. Like I need to, I can't just run away

00:53:33.520 from my problems. I need to deal with them. So this is where she finally like confesses what

00:53:37.100 her debts are and her husband, I think helps to pay off some of them. Yeah. I mean, and like we

00:53:43.520 were saying, they do kind of enter a new phase of their relationship at this point to the point

00:53:49.520 that after she passes away, he is called most deeply effective, showing more feeling than anyone

00:53:57.780 thought possible. So I think clearly in the end years of their marriage, they do, I don't know,

00:54:04.840 kind of renegotiate the terms of their relationship a little bit. Maybe her as, you know, a 17 year

00:54:10.240 old wife wasn't his ideal woman, but as the mother of his children, both legitimate and

00:54:16.020 illegitimate, he must've respected her at least a little bit. And so when she does pass away,

00:54:21.540 do you know how old she was? She was 48. Yeah. And I think it's illness related,

00:54:26.540 just like various yeah um so it was in 1806 and she had all these illnesses leading up to that

00:54:33.580 point historians think that she died of an abscess of the liver again possibly a side effect of her

00:54:40.500 years of hard living catching up with her yeah so she dies in piccadilly at devonshire house

00:54:48.540 the family's townhouse thousands of people congregate in front of the house because

00:54:53.540 this is the most famous woman of the it would be like if you knew where princess diana had died

00:54:58.680 right and think about people leaving flowers at kensington palace and it's just this public moment

00:55:04.380 of collective grief well and especially because like she's 46 she became famous when she was

00:55:09.840 what 16 or 18 like there's so many people who remember her at her like prime like her peak

00:55:16.060 fame but then she's never not been famous so right yeah yeah pretty pretty says of her the

00:55:23.160 best-natured and best-bred woman in England is gone. It's like, okay, thank you. It means so

00:55:30.100 much coming from you. She passes away. And then I'm not sure how much long after that, but you

00:55:35.460 know who her husband marries is. Surprise, surprise. Yep. Yeah. So three years after her

00:55:43.400 death, Lady Elizabeth marries the Duke. Georgina's children are not happy about this. So her kids,

00:55:51.880 they get along with Bess's children and like the Duke's other kids by however

00:55:57.020 they were raised together. The kids all get along, but Georgina's children hated Bess.

00:56:03.560 She always like pled pleaded with them like to like give her a chance. She's my best friend.

00:56:10.840 Like her, your dad loves her, but they were not having any of it. When Bess marries the Duke,

00:56:16.620 the the scripts kind of flips historical records kind of show the duke gave bess's daughter

00:56:23.360 30 000 pounds as a dowry when she marries george lamb but only gives hario 10 000 when she gets

00:56:31.720 married so there's some weird like inter familial stuff going on however best only gets to be

00:56:39.900 married and be the duchess for two years because the duke dies in 1811 and then i just want to

00:56:46.460 mentioned best does wind up in rome is where she kind of lives her yes so i have a couple points 1.00

00:56:52.200 on her later years so she fights because she's the second duchess of the fifth duke right so she 1.00

00:56:58.500 fights to keep properties which she is not entitled to um because there's a new duke now 0.70

00:57:04.780 it's georgina's son she really really tries to get some property for herself and she also insists

00:57:10.500 that her son Clifford has the right to use the Duke's like crest, like his coat of arms.

00:57:17.380 So she, I don't know, she was a crafty one. Also goes public at this point with the paternity of

00:57:24.140 the, her illegitimate children, which again, people knew, but like it hadn't ever been confirmed

00:57:31.440 to the point where she's like airing dirty laundry to the point where the new Duke, 0.99

00:57:36.140 Georgina's son, give like basically bribes Bess to leave England. So this is why she ends up in

00:57:42.900 Rome. She kind of just gets out of there. She lives in Rome for the rest of her life. She

00:57:47.500 becomes a patron of the arts and she has a torrid affair with a cardinal of the Catholic church.

00:57:53.180 Cardinal consultant. So this is where she shows up in my book. I don't know if she actually shows

00:57:57.900 up in my book, but she did show up in my research and it confused me because in my book, Rebel of

00:58:02.620 the regency i made the choice to always call people by kind of their first name or their title

00:58:07.880 like to not if a title moves from one person to another i don't refer to the new person as that

00:58:13.720 former title right but other and that was partially because other authors don't do this and i was

00:58:17.920 reading a book that was talking about carolina brunswick goes to rome she meets cardinal consalvi

00:58:22.240 and it says in the duchess of devonshire was so mean to her and i was like devonshire died 20

00:58:27.720 years prior to this. And it's like, yeah, Georgiana died. So to call the same, to call

00:58:35.000 two different people in the same book, the Duchess of Devonshire, well, one of them is so

00:58:38.200 famous as the Duchess of Devonshire. So that's how I knew she was in Rome. And Cardinal Consalvi

00:58:43.340 was very mean to Carolina Brunswick. So that's what I know about her.

00:58:47.520 Interesting. So we cannot stand. Yeah. She is known also as an amateur archaeologist. She funds 0.96

00:58:54.600 excavations of the forum so she and Georgina were both women in stem um Georgina died in Rome

00:59:02.440 18 years to the day after Georgina that's how badly this woman wanted to be Georgina um she

00:59:10.020 dies on March 30th 1824 um rumor has it that she had a locket around her neck with Georgina's

00:59:18.740 curls inside as well as a hair bracelet next to her bed yeah so this is like the whole like

00:59:25.860 their relationship is just so strange and sort of unfathomable but i'm sure lots of people today

00:59:31.580 have lots of relationships that a biography couldn't necessarily dictate but best was

00:59:36.240 important to georgiana and best and the duke i mean she gets married with both of them in the

00:59:41.800 cavendish family vault because she's the duchess and so was georgiana so they're all together like

00:59:47.700 for eternity it's you know like i'm trying to think a different version of the story would be

00:59:52.920 like and best kills georgiana so she could marry yeah it's like single white female yeah she just

00:59:59.220 kind of georgiana was so nice yeah you can't do that to her like i think they did have a legitimate

01:00:05.180 friendship it was just but everybody else or didn't like her and were so suspicious and thought

01:00:11.800 her motives were so obvious except for georgiana who was just like no that's just my friend it's

01:00:16.080 Like she's clearly trying to take over your life.

01:00:17.740 And Georgina is like, well, that's fine.

01:00:19.460 But this could be a horror movie as well as a black comedy.

01:00:22.160 Yeah.

01:00:22.540 The whole thing is it's and that's where I was kind of like, because there's lots of

01:00:27.060 readings of the situation.

01:00:27.980 And part of it is this is a bisexual thing. 0.74

01:00:30.560 Is this like, did they have a sexual relationship or like the fact that Bess was sleeping with 0.81

01:00:36.720 a husband, but Georgina was also sleeping with a husband.

01:00:38.820 Like it's it's an unusual situation to try to understand. 0.84

01:00:42.960 Yeah.

01:00:43.060 Um, like there's certainly lots of people in history where there's a husband with a wife and a mistress, but the wife and the mistress are like living together.

01:00:50.180 Yeah.

01:00:50.960 Happily, seemingly loving each other's company.

01:00:54.800 Like that's where people are just like, so then they must've been also in love.

01:00:58.880 So it's like, I'm not to say what is up, but I do know that.

01:01:01.820 I don't think we can ever understand because we don't live in this world.

01:01:05.280 And yeah, I don't know.

01:01:07.360 It's, but for all that, we can say Georgina's son is the one that comes, becomes the next Duke.

01:01:12.220 eventually he tries to like right some of the wrongs of the previous generation he like gives

01:01:18.100 his illegitimate sisters their dowries and he helps to settle Georgina's debts um and he's

01:01:23.960 even helpful to Bess's children it's just Bess that he could not stand but he helps Clifford

01:01:29.340 become a baronet so yeah well like you said like earlier I think in part one just after she dies

01:01:35.840 Bess's, or not Bess, Georgiana's husband and son put out a public notice being like, hey,

01:01:44.260 did Georgiana owe you money? It's like, it would be an infomercial. Like if you have been impacted

01:01:49.140 by like mesothelioma, you may be entitled to compensation, except it's Georgiana's gambling

01:01:54.920 debts. Yeah. So they, they took care of that for her after that, but Hart, her son, in terms of

01:02:01.420 just queer history it seems like he never married and he had various like male companions and stuff

01:02:06.700 so that's where amanda foreman suggests like maybe best or sorry you're getting mixed up now

01:02:13.480 georgiana oh they're all one person um georgiana felt like personality wise her son heart was the

01:02:20.440 most similar to her and amanda foreman suggests like maybe part of that similarity was heart

01:02:24.940 was queer and maybe georgiana also was oh because he never married an interesting angle he never had

01:02:30.840 any children he had like male favorites and stuff and he also she would have wanted him to become 0.62

01:02:35.620 like the next big wig sensation but because of his next big wig but because of his deafness like he 0.61

01:02:41.620 was never able to like he couldn't go and debate in a room full of people like so but he did like

01:02:46.720 her behind the scenes was just kind of like supporting and stuff yeah and there's a time

01:02:50.900 where we need to give Georgina Duchess of Devonshire her scores in four I forgot to do this

01:02:56.320 ahead of time. So we're going to do this on the fly. We're going to do it live. Um, well, and I,

01:03:00.800 I don't, I never prepare. I always just think of it as I do it. So the first category is

01:03:05.020 scandalousness. How scandalous was she seen by people in her time? And it's one to 10. 0.69

01:03:10.800 It's one to 10. My thought process is like, well, she did have an illegitimate child and she was 1.00

01:03:16.860 doing like the political stuff. Like there were people who found that scandalous, but then

01:03:20.320 not everyone knew about the illegitimate child and not everyone found that political stuff

01:03:24.400 scandalous. Like she was so beloved by just a everyday person. It's not just like, who's this

01:03:29.720 hussy? Like people. And people wanted to like accept everything she did. I think as evidenced 1.00

01:03:35.720 in the fact that she was like a darling for most of her time in the public eye, like everyone in

01:03:40.360 England loved her except for her husband. I want to say a six feels right. Possibly a seven.

01:03:47.620 I feel like a six is appropriate because she, it's funny because she did things that on another 1.00

01:03:52.380 person would have been seen as scandalous but because she was so wealthy she just she just

01:03:57.640 owned it too and she was so just sweet people just loved her like it's like well we won't be mad at

01:04:02.600 you it's like yeah you're addicted to gambling and opium but like who isn't like yeah that's fine

01:04:08.460 and there was there were other more scandalous people doing other things at this time so it 0.65

01:04:13.900 might be a case of relative like calm i think six yeah i think six because she did do things

01:04:21.060 that were scandalous but she's not out there intentionally trying to shock people um part of 1.00

01:04:27.360 it's funny sort of like some of the scandalous stuff she did was just because she was so almost 0.99

01:04:32.060 passive in a way she was just like oh that's fine like my husband's mistress wants to move

01:04:35.980 oh that's fine things just happened to her lack of action just kind of made things a bit she didn't

01:04:42.320 yeah i agree with that so the next category is the scheminess it's it's a one it's she did how 0.70

01:04:50.780 did she scheme she orchestrated good political campaigns did she do anything else besides plan 1.00

01:04:55.920 a good party i don't think so no like in terms of the even if she was scheming she would have like 1.00

01:05:01.960 oh my god i think i'm pregnant i'm gonna scheme to like sleep with my husband so he'll take the 1.00

01:05:05.600 child she's just so upfront and honest or like help help people during the french revolution 1.00

01:05:10.440 rather than just being there as some kind of disaster tourist yeah and then she went back

01:05:14.840 to england it's like oh you could have arranged for some of your friends to be sent to england

01:05:18.680 but he didn't she no she's she was not a scheming person and that's fine and she didn't have to be

01:05:24.800 so in terms of significance i want to read you a passage just a sec okay okay so um in the epilogue

01:05:33.200 amanda foreman writes georgiana should be credited with being one of the first to refine political

01:05:37.180 messages for mass communication she was an image maker who understood the necessity of public

01:05:42.080 relations and she became adept at the manipulation of political symbols and the dissemination of

01:05:46.640 party propaganda. Um, so her influence with sort of like going out and meeting and greeting with

01:05:53.320 people like that kind of changed how politics operated. Um, I think her just being a woman 1.00

01:05:59.780 being in the political sphere kind of set up the scene for other people to do similar things later 1.00

01:06:05.400 on. Um, she sponsored the guy who invented laughing gas. Um, yeah. And I'm thinking too,

01:06:12.340 Like there is stuff we can't really measure.

01:06:15.120 Like Charles Gray was prime minister when the slave trade was abolished in

01:06:19.220 Britain, 0.52

01:06:19.540 but like how much of his footing was based on the fact that Georgiana was in

01:06:23.140 his orbit.

01:06:23.800 We don't know.

01:06:24.360 It's hard to quantify that.

01:06:26.280 Yeah.

01:06:27.100 Like she was behind the scenes sort of just like,

01:06:29.020 and she also sponsored like people who became really successful performers

01:06:32.320 like Sarah Siddons,

01:06:33.260 like she sponsored,

01:06:33.980 she was a patron of her.

01:06:35.000 Like she,

01:06:35.500 it's hard to quantify because so much of what she did was behind the scenes

01:06:38.500 and then someone else did a thing.

01:06:40.360 She's a little humble about it too.

01:06:42.340 Yeah. And like without her support, a lot of like some of these people wouldn't have been successful.

01:06:47.400 Yeah. It's hard to prove a negative.

01:06:49.900 Like a seven or an eight.

01:06:51.920 I don't know. Is that too high?

01:06:53.960 No, I think we can make up some points here because the, you know, she lost so many points in scheminess.

01:06:59.240 But I think her significance is.

01:07:01.580 She comes up a lot in just accounts of the era, too.

01:07:05.520 She's always there. Like her involvement, like we did not focus on the politics of it all, but she was really important to the politics.

01:07:12.000 Like I'm just like finding the new people and sort of like finding the rising

01:07:16.520 stars and like grooming them to take over.

01:07:18.560 And like,

01:07:19.260 I think her political influence is very significant in a way that I can't

01:07:22.940 quantify because I skipped a lot of those parts of the book.

01:07:25.480 But I know that the Whig party would,

01:07:29.740 might've collapsed without her support,

01:07:31.300 like both financial and also just her like person skills.

01:07:35.360 And she was like behind the scenes,

01:07:37.480 like advising Prinny.

01:07:38.720 Like,

01:07:38.860 I feel like she had like an invisible influence on the whole thing.

01:07:41.980 wrote a book and she wrote a book and she wrote a song that became a hit song and she got everyone

01:07:47.180 wearing ostrich feathers yeah you know poofs the poofs the all the dresses the brown she invented

01:07:55.140 there was also like a dance she invented i think they said a devonshire minuet so i i'm gonna say 0.98

01:08:02.940 seven or an eight and you choose i'm gonna say eight i'm gonna say eight because all right

01:08:08.460 her influence is she's one of the most famous people from this time period even if someone

01:08:14.320 doesn't really know what she did like somehow she just became a she's connected to all these

01:08:19.240 things yeah every biography of anyone from this era she's gonna pop up in somehow yep unless it's

01:08:26.620 best popping up being like i'm the duchess of deaf and sure it's like no you're not you're in

01:08:30.460 rome get out of here best stop trying to make fetch happen okay this is interesting which is

01:08:35.780 funny the whole gretchen wieners of it all um so his best was kind of had that gretchen wieners

01:08:41.660 energy as well but georgiana did too anyway so sexism bonus is how much was she held back by

01:08:47.580 her gender yeah and it's like she did accomplish what she did accomplish but also just the fact 0.92

01:08:52.820 that like she was married off really young um so much of her first part of her life her first era

01:08:58.780 was just because she was married so young and she did not have children right away she was at

01:09:05.460 loose ends and then she started partying and gambling and like to compensate her but we see

01:09:11.500 that she's interested in science and writing and all these other things like had she not been in

01:09:15.620 a society where she was the most important thing she could do was give birth to a son like maybe 1.00

01:09:21.020 she wouldn't have amassed the gambling debts because she would have i mean and she could 1.00

01:09:26.280 have been the politician running the campaign and get an elective rather than getting men elected 1.00

01:09:31.960 right she could have been the prime minister because she had the social skills yeah yeah 1.00

01:09:37.740 it's it's up there it's a it's a i think a high sexism bonus and but that's before we even get to 0.97

01:09:43.540 being exiled from your children because you've had one child out of wedlock when your husband

01:09:47.700 has had at least three who again i can't stress this enough live in your house with you so there's

01:09:55.340 yeah yeah and then and she was a very privileged person but the issues she rubs up against are 0.99

01:10:03.780 almost all because of sexism exactly i was just gonna say like that she was exiled but then she

01:10:08.940 was forced to not be connected to her daughter to her illegitimate daughter or the lover yeah like

01:10:15.980 all of her problems you're right like except for like gambling debts were based on well no because 0.62

01:10:21.680 even the gambling debts I think are a side effect of she can't produce the male heir and that's like

01:10:26.200 the only thing she is deemed like important for in this world it's a high sexism bonus I think I 1.00

01:10:34.180 think it would be I think she like we see when she was able to just do like her science experiments 1.00

01:10:40.540 or like her home redecorations or the politics it's like when she was able to just do what she

01:10:45.140 was interested in she thrived everything she did she did very well yeah and it's just that the

01:10:51.020 society and the patriarchy was just kind of like, but you know what you didn't do well,

01:10:55.360 have a son. Like that was so important. So I don't know how she, I mean, she does subvert it

01:11:01.640 because that's, that's, I think why she is so successful in her fashion and messaging through 0.74

01:11:06.980 her clothing. That's her way of expressing herself. So she does navigate it well, but I 0.97

01:11:13.240 hate that she had to. Yeah. Well, for comparison, for instance, um, there's an episode I have

01:11:18.500 coming out in a bit that's about margaret beaufort who like the mother of the tudor dynasty and like

01:11:24.200 lots of feelings complicated feelings so talking about her where it's just like sexism it's like

01:11:29.160 someone else was like if she had been the monarch like yeah well the fact like the two is married

01:11:35.100 off at age 12 had a child when she was 13 almost died and like that colors everything and she had 0.50

01:11:39.360 to keep marrying husbands yeah um so it's like that got in her way in a specific way but she

01:11:44.700 was able to still work within the system and i feel like georgiana found ways to work within the

01:11:49.520 system but but how much easier would it have been if she could just go do the things without being

01:11:55.180 hampered by that exactly so is it a seven again i was thinking i was gonna say seven i was thinking

01:12:01.260 feel safe yeah yeah well and it's because it's not it didn't a 10 out of 10 in this category is

01:12:06.760 like sophia dorothea the queen who is like trapped right hour for 25 years yeah an affair it's like

01:12:13.340 that's a 10 out of 10. Like her life was stopped. Or like a queen Boudicca, right? Who has to go 0.59

01:12:17.800 fight the Romans because of all the horrors they inflicted upon her. Yeah. So like Georgiana,

01:12:22.920 she found ways to thrive, but she could have thrived. She shouldn't have had to. Yeah,

01:12:27.100 exactly. I think seven. I like where this Lancer, which is at a 22. Okay. Respectable.

01:12:33.520 So she's a 22. And do you know who has a 21.5? Is Gabrielle de Polignac. Amazing. 0.80

01:12:39.480 so she's right there next to her one and she she stayed in contact with her like they were

01:12:45.460 long-distance pen pals like when the flight to varenne happened and stuff like she gabrielle

01:12:50.220 like she was able to flee versailles and so like she and jr were exchanging letters like they

01:12:54.940 they stay in touch good for them i like being your your 21 22 on the scale

01:13:00.140 guest it's a comfortable place it's not as tragic as some of the other ones

01:13:05.660 Exactly. It's people who they had, um, Empress CC is a 21. I think she's someone else who

01:13:10.780 could have had a much better life if not for the, like, have a son of it all. Um,

01:13:17.000 Madame du Barry, 15. Like she didn't have a son. Yeah. So thank you so much for this episode. Like 1.00

01:13:26.360 I felt like the combination of the time and the place, because it overlaps with like the stuff

01:13:30.720 that we've talked about before the Versailles and everything, but then also the art element of it.

01:13:35.480 And then the royal family element, I'm like, this is like, this is a Amanda episode.

01:13:40.340 Like I needed you to be a guest.

01:13:41.540 I was so excited when you asked me to come on for this one.

01:13:44.140 And I'm excited for the other one we're going to discuss in a little bit.

01:13:47.200 We will.

01:13:47.740 That's coming up in a few months.

01:13:49.280 We'll be talking, we mentioned before, but we're going to do Emma Hamilton, who is also

01:13:53.200 going to be a two-part episode, I'm pretty sure.

01:13:55.380 There's a lot there, yeah, to dissect.

01:13:57.340 Another person with eras.

01:13:58.500 But yes, please remind everybody how they can keep up with you and follow you.

01:14:01.660 Yeah. So I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Mata of Fact. That's M-A-T-T-A underscore of underscore

01:14:09.340 fact. You can also find me on the twice weekly podcast Off With Their Headlines. That is

01:14:15.040 royal news, but also dissecting the media around the royals, crazy headlines, the narratives,

01:14:22.120 all of it. That's really fun. That's anywhere you get your podcasts. Just search Off With Their

01:14:26.380 Headlines. And I also have a newsletter, The Fascinator. That's on Substack twice a week as

01:14:31.360 well. Again, royal news and commentary, but I do some essays and stuff on there too. So yeah,

01:14:36.660 I don't have a pre-order link for the book yet, but I'll have more about that to share

01:14:40.340 in a future episode. My book, The Royal Tea, T-E-A, of course, is coming out in spring 2027.

01:14:48.740 And just to be clear, your book is about the history of the royal family and scandals. It's

01:14:51.960 not about the history of Earl Grey Tea. No. Yeah, it's history. I mean, it's,

01:14:56.160 I kind of think of it as like a field guide to royal world, like anything you would need to know

01:15:01.940 any like freely asked question that I get about the monarchy. I have tried to answer in the book.

01:15:07.200 So it's going to be really great illustrated, just a beautiful packaged gift for anyone who

01:15:13.740 either loves the monarchy or like hates that they're fascinated by the monarchy, but can't

01:15:19.580 look away. Like I'm trying to straddle that line. Well, and I think like, that's what you do with

01:15:23.680 your content as well you're being like here's what the royals are up to and it's like people

01:15:26.540 watch you because they they hate to follow it but they're interested in people follow you because

01:15:30.500 they love the royals so you're just kind of like here's the facts and like feel how you feel here's

01:15:35.060 my thought on it and you can make up your own mind i'm not telling you how to feel and i get

01:15:39.200 people too that say like i'm not interested in the royals but the way i'm not to toot my own horn

01:15:44.580 but the way you break down the the situation and the story is just so engrossing and i think that's

01:15:50.580 a testament to like royalty itself just sucking us in no matter what era but yeah I mainly talk

01:15:57.040 about the modern royals but my background like you mentioned in part one is art history so the

01:16:02.080 historical context and the characters are also fascinating to me so I love that I get to mash

01:16:08.440 it all together uh in my commentary no and I love I can't wait until your book comes out like I will

01:16:14.480 be I'll get your copy for sure the number one cheerleader but I will be up there in the upper

01:16:19.640 echelon of people just like it's gonna be so good you're gonna die I'll send you offline the

01:16:25.140 illustrator that I think we're gonna get for it um because it's it's gonna be so good I'm so

01:16:30.180 excited about the illustrations that's so great um my book has a little my book which I'll talk

01:16:35.300 about in a second my book has like portraits in the middle it was really important to me to have

01:16:38.540 like a book that has like the glossy I love those books yeah yeah I was just like I want that and I

01:16:44.260 think because so much of the Carolina Brunswick story is about the visuals and how she harnessed

01:16:48.020 that and the tabloid press like I just really wanted people to know it's important I think

01:16:52.500 yeah the image making your book is beautiful by the way I I was a little amused when you said like

01:16:59.420 I sent you a picture of it when it came to me in the mail and you were like I think you're the

01:17:02.700 first person to get it I'm so honored but that era the regency like even if people don't think

01:17:09.640 they know anything about the regency they definitely do and the visuals I think are what

01:17:14.140 ground you in that time, whether it's Bridgerton or the portraits of, you know, George or the

01:17:20.120 satire, like whatever. I think the visuals are important. So yeah, you did a great job. Everyone

01:17:25.880 should go buy your book. Thank you so much. And to remind everybody, it's called Rebel of the

01:17:29.460 Regency, the Scandal Saga of Carolina Brunswick, Britain's Uncrowned Queen, and it will be

01:17:33.460 available in Canada, the US, the UK and Australia on February 10th. You can get all the information

01:17:39.500 about it and your pre-order all the links are there rebel of the regency.com and when you

01:17:44.760 pre-order it um it's been interesting because i have this form that people fill out like they

01:17:49.500 send me the receipt and then i send them like which of the treats they want they can get a

01:17:52.760 free membership patreon or my sub stack or the paper doll and it's been like increasing in

01:17:57.880 frequency like people are like realizing it's coming out they're on it yeah they're on they're

01:18:02.260 on it now more than they had been so you can do that up until february 10th basically you can

01:18:06.660 send me a receipt and get your little treats but also please join me at the book launch event which

01:18:11.580 is going to be friday the 13th um i love that it's friday the 13th my parents got engaged on

01:18:17.520 friday the 13th it's an auspicious day i think i think it's an auspicious day and i also think

01:18:21.620 it's sort of like it would be weird if my event was friday that was like february 14th because

01:18:25.940 it is not yeah yeah yeah you should dress up like one of the witches from macbeth for your book

01:18:31.580 launch party. Absolutely. Georgiana. Yes. I'll show up with an ostrich feather in my hat or

01:18:37.640 something, but anyway, so I'm going to be doing the launch in person here where I live in Saskatoon

01:18:41.340 in Canada. So if you're here, come right by McNally Robinson bookstore, which is our independent

01:18:45.260 bookstore on Friday, the 13th at 7 PM. If you're not here, it's going to be live streamed. So I'll

01:18:51.340 put the YouTube link in the show notes to this episode. So everybody can participate from wherever

01:18:55.280 you are in the world and that'll be really exciting. And then I have another event in

01:18:59.140 Halifax Nova Scotia and further events coming up later when we're out of like blizzard season

01:19:04.940 like it's not really like I'm doing these two cities because those are kind of my two hometowns

01:19:10.220 but once we're out of when it's like I don't want to show up in whatever Philadelphia or somewhere

01:19:15.480 and it's like oh guess what all the flights are grounded because of snow like yeah it's risky

01:19:19.960 I'm hoping to go to other places so stay tuned for information about that and otherwise Amanda

01:19:26.200 thank you so much. This was such a, it's such a treat to talk to you. Um, Georgina, like everybody

01:19:32.400 out there, like, let's just invent our own accents. Let's just like start pronouncing things and do

01:19:38.220 interesting things. That's how we can keep our memory alive. And thank you so much for joining

01:19:41.840 me and to everybody, keep your pants on and your tits out. 0.99

01:19:50.920 Fulgur History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Anne Foster. Editor is Christina Lumagi. 0.99

01:19:56.200 Theme music is by The Severn Duo.

01:19:58.760 Regency-era artwork by Karen Moynihan.

01:20:01.080 Social media videos by Magdalena Denson.

01:20:03.920 Transcripts of this podcast are available at vulgarhistory.com by Aveline Malek.

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Vulgar History - February 03, 2026

Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire (part two)

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