Vulgar History - Mary, Queen of Scots： Part Seven： Lochleven

00:00:00.000 hello and welcome back to vulgar history feminist women's history comedy podcast this is the Mary

00:00:15.960 Queen of Scots season and there's so much to get into because again I can't believe I ever thought 0.64

00:00:21.640 I would do this in four episodes that was just like a ridiculous thing I thought and imagine

00:00:26.260 if I had how much weird stuff I'd have to skip. I'm Anne Foster, and I'm joined today by Alison

00:00:31.800 Epstein. Hello, hello. I am back. Happy to be here. I think it's interesting. So like you,

00:00:38.580 your first appearances on this podcast, not this season, but in general, were just dirtbag adjacent

00:00:42.820 reasons. Like I brought you on when I had a story of like a weird dirtbag so you could react to it.

00:00:48.120 I was your, your kind of your straight man to the what on earth is happening in this story

00:00:53.600 kind of thing so yeah those have been my greatest hits so far well and then we brought you on for 0.94

00:00:58.440 Darnley because he is your nemesis the worst I hate him so much I would blow him up in his house

00:01:04.400 myself if I could yeah and then we had Bothwell which is just honestly it's like wow Darnley 0.68

00:01:09.620 what a terrible husband like oh wow like could like could it get worse she's married to she's

00:01:15.280 married to Bothwell for a month and it was like at least as bad as Darnley was but now we're into

00:01:20.720 part of the story that you don't know as well. So now I'm just kind of like telling you stuff.

00:01:24.140 Which is, I also love when you tell me stories. It's why I listened to the podcast in the first

00:01:27.640 place. So. Exactly. So this is just like you listen to the podcast, but you happen to also

00:01:32.260 be recording what you're up to. Yes. I'm also a deep enthusiast of Mary Queen of Scots, but like

00:01:37.540 I was telling Anne right before we started recording, I know a lot about what happened

00:01:41.160 in France and I know a lot about what happened in England. But then after Darnley gets blown

00:01:45.620 up in Scotland, there's just like a period of some years that I'm not as familiar with.

00:01:49.420 well and that's a period of time that i don't blame any movie maker historical fiction writer

00:01:57.280 for glossing over because it's just like 75 men all called james writing weird contracts with each

00:02:04.520 other over and over again there's a lot of paperwork more than i expected there's a lot

00:02:09.160 of paperwork there's a lot of men called james there's a lot of just people not being sure like

00:02:15.020 no one's in charge it's just like 28 guys and none of them is really steering what they're doing

00:02:21.500 but they all know that they want to do something and anyway we'll see the result of that so last

00:02:28.920 oh actually no first let's get my references so mary queen of scott's secretary william

00:02:33.220 maitland politician reformer and conspirator by robert steedle mary queen of scott's escape

00:02:38.560 from lock leave and castle by theresa breslin which is an illustrated children's picture book

00:02:43.440 and you know i'm all for more illustrated children's picture books about very specific

00:02:49.920 moments in the lives of historical figures um mary was here where mary queen of scots went and what

00:02:54.780 she did there by historic scotland embroidering her truth mary queen of scots in the language of

00:02:59.200 power by claire hunter daughters of the north jean gordon and mary queen of scots by jennifer

00:03:02.960 morick henderson and homecoming by rosemary goreng so oh that was i didn't write down the subtitle

00:03:09.280 but homecoming by rosemary goreng that's like mary queen of scots in scotland and what she did

00:03:13.080 while she was in Scotland. So last time, William Cecil was revealed as the Wizard of Oz behind

00:03:21.300 everything. He manipulated Bothwell into forcing Mary to marry him, despite Bothwell having three

00:03:28.420 previous or current other wives. This turned everyone in Scotland against him and kind of her.

00:03:35.580 Bothwell fled. Mary surrendered to the asshole Confederacy, who claimed, yeah, come with us. 0.99

00:03:42.040 we're going to restore you to be the queen. 1.00

00:03:44.180 Just like march on with us 0.94

00:03:45.880 behind this banner of your murdered husband. 0.98

00:03:48.780 And your screaming child.

00:03:51.300 Totally chill.

00:03:52.440 Totally chill vibes. 0.99

00:03:54.220 So when Mary struck this deal 1.00

00:03:55.960 with the rebel assholes, 0.99

00:03:57.660 she believed she was returning to Edinburgh 1.00

00:03:59.700 to resume her reign

00:04:00.800 and be reunited with her son.

00:04:02.380 And honestly, 1.00

00:04:02.940 she had faced down against assholes 1.00

00:04:04.940 several times before. 0.99

00:04:06.520 And that had always weirdly happened

00:04:07.960 after she just kind of like went back

00:04:09.240 and it's like business as usual.

00:04:10.980 I'm queen again.

00:04:12.720 But then the rebels dismissed the women who were with her, like Mary Seaton from the Four Marys,

00:04:19.060 leaving her escorted back to Edinburgh just by male soldiers. And she was riding just next to

00:04:24.640 the banner showing the corpse of Darnley and her baby son being like, avenge me, oh Lord Jesus,

00:04:29.860 or whatever. So she must have been like, oh no. I think she later wrote or someone said,

00:04:37.260 she said, like, I wish I had never seen that banner, which I don't know if she had seen the

00:04:42.860 illustration before, but to see that banner and then to have to like ride into town next to a

00:04:46.680 banner of like your murdered husband. I wonder if they kept the tasteful ink lot over his private

00:04:53.320 parts. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. And I might have answers for you in next time's episode,

00:04:58.580 because one of my books does delve a lot into this banner, one of the books I've been reading.

00:05:04.240 So she entered Edinburgh, and throughout this story, throughout these last six, seven episodes, she's entered Edinburgh a lot of times, generally to cheering crowds.

00:05:14.980 Last time, to perplexed crowds, being like, is she a prisoner of Bothwell? Should we cheer?

00:05:21.280 But this time, it was clear she'd lost the support of the people, because as she entered Edinburgh, they screamed obscenities and threw mud at her, yelling things like, burn the whore, and murderess. 0.99

00:05:33.620 Fairly direct, yeah. 0.99

00:05:35.100 Not a lot of interpretation.

00:05:37.200 No, it's kind of like, oh, this is a change.

00:05:40.320 And remember, also, she's still wearing the borrowed outfit from last time where she had to get clothes from like a much shorter peasant woman, which did include, just because I know you're a hat enthusiast, the outfit she borrowed did include a velvet hat.

00:05:53.080 Excellent.

00:05:53.640 So, yeah.

00:05:55.120 The one good thing about this outfit, I'm sure.

00:05:57.800 Yeah. 0.99

00:05:58.260 But did she sit there on the horse being self-pitying?

00:06:00.580 No. In fact, she yelled at the asshole soldiers who were taking her, being like she was going to hang and crucify them for betraying her. She told Lindsay, a character who we first met last time, but I think you'll remember because his name is Lindsay. She told, I will have your head for this. And, you know, literally, she meant that. So she was, she wasn't just being taken and like, I guess this is what's happening to me. 1.00

00:06:25.100 Like after that, like the Bothwell era was Mary was just not an active participant in a lot of what happened there.

00:06:33.680 She was just kind of like being dragged along.

00:06:36.140 Like she was having health issues. 0.96

00:06:37.460 She's having mental health issues.

00:06:38.560 Like she just was not, she was not the Mary we knew because she was overwhelmed with emotions and grief and medical issues and things.

00:06:47.180 But, but, but our girl is back this week in the episode.

00:06:51.240 but she's also interestingly in times of wild crisis she really thrives like when like I think 0.96

00:07:03.160 one of her most impressive eras was when the night that Rizzio was murdered and how she turned that

00:07:09.780 all around like in a crisis she's your girl like she steps up she's really really good that chips

00:07:16.800 are down which is great because her trips are always down all the time so i'm glad she's good

00:07:21.380 in a crisis she'd better yeah exactly so here and i don't know it's also like she's always trying to

00:07:26.460 find allies and people to work with her but she's so good on her own like last time like she was

00:07:31.720 relying on bothwell and that one very badly obviously but she was just kind of letting him

00:07:35.720 take over and she stepped back which i'm sure was good for her just to like maybe sleep and like get

00:07:42.200 better but here she is isolated again and she this is where she's just like a feral cat who's 1.00

00:07:47.860 just like oh you're gonna fuck with me i will murder you so anyway that's the vibe so she was 0.99

00:07:53.760 taken instead of to the castle she's taken to this like fancy house on edinburgh's high street 1.00

00:07:58.800 where she's placed under guard in an upstairs room and the dead darnley banner was positioned

00:08:03.960 opposite her window in the street below so when she looked outside it's like there it is a mob

00:08:09.520 outside continued to yell abuse up to her she was offered supper but refused because she sensibly

00:08:14.840 assumed it was poisoned i'm sure it was and so she was kept in the room so this is like i'm trying

00:08:19.600 to think who's in charge of this well that's the thing kind of no one is which is part of the

00:08:23.560 problem because they had defeated bothwell but now it's like no one was in charge of the other side 0.99

00:08:28.980 the confederacy of lords is still just kind of a blob of of asshole men yeah like hollywood 0.99

00:08:35.840 and jimmy stewart is kind of in charge but he's not there because he's never there when shit goes 0.99

00:08:40.640 down because he wants to keep his hands clean so no one's quite sure what to do so they put her in 0.99

00:08:45.020 this house but they do know that she is like a cunning bitch so they're just like she will 1.00

00:08:52.120 escape she will make a rope out of sheets she will put on men's clothes she will switch places 1.00

00:08:58.480 she will lower herself onto a horse like it's mission impossible we got ideas 0.99

00:09:03.200 yeah no like we know like they to their credit question mark like they knew that she was good 1.00

00:09:09.940 at this shit cunning bitch complimentary yes absolutely so she was in the room and there 1.00

00:09:15.640 were guards like male guards in the room with her the whole time because they knew that she 1.00

00:09:20.620 might come up with some sort of scheme but this also meant that she was in the room by herself 0.91

00:09:24.380 there's no ladies with her to help her undress because this is the era where like dresses there's 0.98

00:09:27.840 not zippers like there's you just get pinned in and out of your dresses by like a group of people

00:09:32.040 there are no zippers despite what the costume designers on rain would have you believe

00:09:36.280 yeah fair well this is where whatever this episode's coming out a few weeks from now but

00:09:41.320 there's a new movie coming out called firebrand about katherine parr with alicia vikander isn't

00:09:47.160 it playing katherine parr and jude law as henry the eighth and costume design social media are

00:09:52.220 losing their minds at how accurate the costumes are i've never seen the costume design like i

00:09:57.920 love costume designers on social media and on podcasts like my beloved frock flex because

00:10:02.140 they're they're they're so picky and they notice they're like oh i noticed that that extra is

00:10:08.080 wearing a dress from 1763 when this master's wearing a dress from 1754 like oh my like they

00:10:13.600 notice so many things and i love i love how they notice things but this trailer came out and like

00:10:17.800 unanimously they're all just like oh my god oh my god she's wearing a french hood with a chin strap

00:10:22.120 a chin strap they're losing their minds but one of the images that was released of it was alicia

00:10:27.700 a vikander and just wearing a dress and someone's like it's pinned on it's pinned on people are

00:10:34.640 losing their minds in a good way about those costumes i was like oh pinned on like yeah that

00:10:40.280 does look complicated to put on and off yeah anyway so mary is there in this like borrowed 0.98

00:10:44.960 too short dress that is pinned on she can't change out of it um she had no privacy even when using 1.00

00:10:49.340 the chamber pot she's pregnant um so i bet she was at this point they don't but i bet she's peeing a 1.00

00:10:56.400 lot so this is humiliating but also speaks to how much they knew that she was a wily bitch at some 0.99

00:11:03.280 point she looked out the window and passed the banner of her dead husband and baby son screaming 0.99

00:11:08.840 for revenge scottish macchiavelli was on the street and she tried to like get his attention

00:11:13.040 but he was just like i don't see you and he would look at her later he did come up to talk to her

00:11:17.440 and he told her if she rejected bothwell that he would be able to protect her from those who wanted 0.87

00:11:22.180 her dead she was like guess what dipshit boswell gave me this piece of paper with your name on it 0.79

00:11:27.000 with all y'all's names on it it says james 45 times that's all of you why did people do that 0.91

00:11:33.340 why was he just like you know what i'd like to admit to murder before i leave town i don't know

00:11:39.420 but why did she tell him she had this piece of paper because she's like i have this piece of

00:11:43.020 paper and i'm gonna expose all of y'all as the murders of darnley i know that you are the reason

00:11:48.320 this investigation didn't see through like i'm gonna expose you all and at some point that night

00:11:53.600 this paper was taken from her and never seen again anyway she continued to demand to be released to

00:11:59.180 have a hearing like to be told what she's being charged with but there's no response and she grew

00:12:04.400 quote hysterical i i don't know what other word to use she was crying and screaming and i don't

00:12:10.980 know that's as most of us would be if we were arrested without charges and interrogated for

00:12:15.540 several hours while staring at the banner of our dead husband and screaming child yeah after having

00:12:21.140 just been in like a weird coercive toxic abusive nightmare kidnapping while also recovering from

00:12:28.440 sexual assault and still being pregnant like yeah she's upset yeah she's upset she's upset so the

00:12:36.680 next morning she went to the window and somebody who saw her described that she was in so miserable 0.80

00:12:41.040 estate her hair hanging around her ears and okay i'll say how they described it her breasts most 0.99

00:12:48.380 part of all her body from the waist up bare and discovered sad tits out so tits out but sad or 0.98

00:12:55.980 just was it just like her top was like loosened or was she just like i so i'm not sure i'm not 1.00

00:13:01.920 sure i've never encountered tits out but sad before but yeah anyway she's just like have

00:13:06.760 sympathy for me later later those who would wanted to besmirch her name would rewrite this

00:13:14.580 to be like she was so sad she's separated from her true love bothwell she's crying out for bothwell

00:13:19.400 that she wanted to see her lover again which was categorically not what she was crying about

00:13:24.080 but anyway so bear in mind the thing is hollywood icon jimmy stewart is like off in france or

00:13:28.880 something just being like well i'll just kind of wait for this the chips to fall where they may

00:13:32.780 and then I'll swoop in.

00:13:33.960 So nobody knew what to do.

00:13:35.960 So initially, they were pressuring her to divorce Bothwell,

00:13:39.000 which she refused to do because she knew by now

00:13:41.480 they didn't know that she was pregnant by him.

00:13:43.220 She didn't want the child to be illegitimate.

00:13:44.880 But she also probably thought,

00:13:45.960 maybe he's going to come and rescue me

00:13:47.380 and we can like take over again.

00:13:48.540 She didn't know that he was off in a dungeon in Denmark or whatever,

00:13:52.520 which he was not yet.

00:13:53.500 At this point, he was trying to get supporters to help him

00:13:56.000 and no one was joining him.

00:13:57.420 He was being rejected by ex-wife number one,

00:13:59.800 about to be rejected by ex-wife number two.

00:14:02.220 Exactly.

00:14:02.780 So, but even if she did divorce him, which is also like a Protestant thing, not a Catholic thing.

00:14:08.160 So they were like, you need to divorce Bothwell.

00:14:10.220 And like, let's say she did that. 1.00

00:14:11.800 Like if Mary was like single again, she would still have the power to overthrow these guys. 0.98

00:14:17.400 And she would insist on, like as soon as she had power again, she would get a parliamentary inquiry into the murder of Darnley now that she knew that they had done it. 0.92

00:14:26.680 And she would prove her own innocence because she had the piece, she had seen the piece of paper as we're going to see in this story.

00:14:32.780 someone having seen a piece of paper can be evidenced even if that piece of paper is no

00:14:37.180 longer there anyway so the lords were just kind of like like we can't let her have power again

00:14:43.180 because she knows that we killed darnley and that will expose us and then we can't

00:14:47.240 whatever we want to do i don't know what any of their plans are well i'm sure their plans were

00:14:52.100 not get executed for the murder of darnley and so her to prosecute them for that would get in

00:14:57.880 the way of the plan of staying alive that's it that's what their plan is their plan is just let's

00:15:01.880 not be executed. And so to do that, they had to like keep her prisoner. But until they could

00:15:07.240 prove, quote unquote, that she had been involved, like complicit in the murder of Darnley, they had

00:15:11.960 to keep her away so she wouldn't expose them. And they also had to keep her like away from any

00:15:18.180 allies who might come and try to help her. So they had to isolate her. Another thing to keep in mind,

00:15:23.120 Mary at this point, I'm going to blow your mind, listeners. So she's 24 years old. She came to

00:15:29.340 scotland when she was 18 so she has spent basically five six years from like landing in scotland till

00:15:35.540 now it feels like 25 years but she's 24 she's been married three times lord remember when you

00:15:43.920 were 24 and like i was not not not here for any of the things she's doing i was not successfully

00:15:52.560 leading multiple armies against multiple civil wars led by when i was 24 i have a very vivid

00:16:01.540 memory of crying through doing my taxes alone for the first time so i think yeah historians don't

00:16:09.380 cut her a lot of slack for being barely not a child at this point very much so yeah so she's 24

00:16:16.060 but here's the clutch thing so this is what it's like june so that december she would be her

00:16:23.220 birthday and she would turn 25 and so there's this law in scotland that when you turn 25 when anyone

00:16:27.820 when any of their series of baby monarchs turns 25 they that's the age of majority at that point

00:16:34.100 they can undo things that happened previously in their reign like they will be in full power 0.80

00:16:39.020 oh that's neat yeah so when she turns 25 she could do things that like take away lands and 0.98

00:16:47.920 titles that have been given to them so they really wanted to just like make her not be queen by the 0.60

00:16:55.240 time she's 25 basically which is a ticking clock because she's 24 right now 24 and six months yeah

00:17:01.680 yeah exactly they needed to kind of keep her both somewhere where allies like supporters couldn't

00:17:08.040 free her but also somewhere where she couldn't spread the word that they had killed Darnley

00:17:12.440 but also to keep her somewhere where maybe they could keep her indefinitely 0.62

00:17:15.460 so that when she turns 25 she wouldn't take away all their lands and titles

00:17:19.380 so they were just kind of like well I don't know and again no one's in charge so they stopped in

00:17:25.420 at Hollyrood where two of the four Marys were there so she's able to like change in her own

00:17:30.720 clothes like see the Marys and just like eat food because she hadn't been eating because of poison

00:17:35.640 reasons and she was there for a minute and then suddenly like i think in the middle of dinner they

00:17:39.420 came up and they're like actually we're leaving now totally to go visit your son i promise and

00:17:43.720 she's like okay and then they went out in their whatever horses and she's like that's not the way

00:17:48.420 to where my son is they're like isn't it because they're headed to a place called lock leaven castle

00:17:53.500 which is on an island in the middle of a lock which is like a lake but scottish

00:18:01.100 Scottish Kits Out Brigade can correct us, but that's my understanding as well.

00:18:05.500 Yeah.

00:18:05.920 So being on an island, the only way to reach this place was via boat, which meant that

00:18:11.000 it would be really hard for her supporters to come and get her because you would see

00:18:14.240 the boat coming and you could stop it.

00:18:16.880 So Lockleaven Castle was also owned by a Douglas.

00:18:20.700 A Douglas.

00:18:23.400 Is owned by a Douglas, Sir William Douglas, a.k.a. WD-40.

00:18:30.700 Do you have that in the U.S.?

00:18:32.220 Yes, we do.

00:18:33.460 Okay.

00:18:34.200 Oh, boy, that's great.

00:18:35.900 And WD-40 is the half-brother of Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart, but in the other direction?

00:18:41.560 So it's his dad's brother?

00:18:45.520 Same mom.

00:18:46.740 Yeah, okay.

00:18:47.540 They have the same mom, WD-40 and Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart.

00:18:50.860 That's my favorite of your nicknames so far, by the way.

00:18:53.980 WD-40?

00:18:54.600 Yeah.

00:18:54.760 Okay.

00:18:55.280 Okay. Yeah. So they had the same mother who had been the mistress to Mary's dad, J5. And there's

00:19:03.620 other siblings as well. There's also a sister named Euphemia, which is a great name in a story

00:19:11.120 full of Janet's and Mary's. I'm sorry, Euphemia. I hope she gets to hang out with Lindsay just for

00:19:16.900 a whimsical day. Allison, they're married to each other. What are you kidding me?

00:19:21.700 i'm so happy euphemia and lindsey are a married couple yeah yeah so wd-40 also has a wife lady 0.80

00:19:34.280 agnes douglas who was pregnant at this time and she was assigned the job of being mary's shadow 0.99

00:19:38.540 again they know she's a crafty bitch so lady agnes douglas was staying with her 24 7 like 1.00

00:19:44.380 including sleeping in the same room i'm gonna get same bed because of this whole scottish bed 1.00

00:19:48.440 shortage also shadowing her but in an unofficial capacity were wd-40's teen daughter and niece who

00:19:54.920 i think just thought she was an icon and just like wanted to follow her around that's awesome

00:19:58.440 wd-40 was also under oath to kill mary if she tried to escape so like the fact that hollywood

00:20:06.760 icon jimmy stewart is still like not physically here but the fact that they're like let's put

00:20:11.480 mary on this island owned by his mom like so he's clearly like behind this and had helped come up

00:20:18.320 with this idea at least so mary arrived there she did not eat for two weeks because of fear of being

00:20:24.800 poisoned which sensible sensible fear it's not an irrational fear yeah no no it's anyway and she

00:20:34.860 obviously but also i don't know she did not eat for two weeks maybe from fear of poisoning maybe

00:20:39.440 because when she her like anxiety response to a stressful situation is she loses her appetite

00:20:44.100 So anyway, of course, all of her various illnesses triggered. Her limbs swole. She developed pustules and she's also actively pregnant. So she didn't know what was going on, not just because no one told her, but also the assholes didn't know what was going on. They just kind of like put her there and they're like, let's figure this out later.

00:21:03.500 but so a warrant had been issued for her to be kept incarcerated indefinitely for helping

00:21:10.880 bothwell kill darnley and then this is i hate like okay she was also being accused of interfering

00:21:17.280 in the investigation of darnley's murder like as though it's her fault that they didn't investigate 0.96

00:21:22.740 properly interfered in the murder in the in the darnley's murder trial every single man in scotland

00:21:29.520 like every single person she's the only one who didn't yeah and so this warrant just bear in mind

00:21:38.060 just for consistency in this podcast series was a piece of paper which was signed by everybody

00:21:43.560 because these guys just lie they see a piece of paper they sign it these guys are just into

00:21:48.560 signing papers but meanwhile back in england surprise elizabeth was like wait what what

00:21:56.120 And because we talked last time about how Elizabeth, her thing is like, we need to treat monarchs special. And if someone starts like putting a queen in prison, for instance, that could be slippery slope to like someone putting me in jail. So not a fan of this. She was 100% on Mary's side against the asshole Confederacy.

00:22:18.860 in fact Elizabeth called to raise an army to save her um not for like because women support women 0.98

00:22:26.320 but because Mary was a queen Elizabeth was a queen and this is not like just the fact that

00:22:30.640 any queen was treated this way it was like offensive to her and also extremely threatening

00:22:35.180 to her because her own legitimacy on the throne of England was like not very certain in people's 0.87

00:22:41.300 eyes anyway so if all of those angry Catholics in England were like oh we can imprison queens on

00:22:46.160 islands and she really should do that like she couldn't no so it's interesting there's um like

00:22:51.740 again the story changes and develops and people's goals and motivations change but like so much of

00:22:56.440 for even myself like people who don't know the story super well myself six months ago there's

00:23:03.200 this idea that like mary versus elizabeth like that's the rivalry that's what's going on but 0.98

00:23:08.060 like elizabeth is like very supportive of her at this time in this way she was like raise a goddamn 0.84

00:23:14.260 army let's go free my girl um william's no problem with mary being mary queen of scots 0.93

00:23:20.820 that is no yeah so yeah but william cecil is like or we could not he's like hiding his white

00:23:33.940 board with like a poster he's having a giant flag with darley's dead body on yes yes yes oh my god

00:23:41.700 yes um so he's like what if we don't go to war but instead send an envoy to go and just like

00:23:48.220 make sure she's treated okay and that happens the envoy is sir nicholas throckmorton aka throcko

00:23:55.800 who goes his job is not just to see if she's okay his job is he's sent there to negotiate

00:24:01.760 mary's release and reinstatement so throcko shows up and he is denied permission to see her

00:24:07.980 because the lords are like mary there's no one called mary here boop boop boop go worry about

00:24:12.980 it but he persisted because he knew that it would be like really easy for them to kill her and make

00:24:18.340 it look like an accident or an illness or something and mary also knew that right that's

00:24:22.520 why she's like suspicious of all food she's being fed i so was throck borden a catholic

00:24:27.980 i don't know was a catholic i i feel like that maybe he was interested in mary for personal

00:24:34.580 reasons as well as he i all i know in terms of the story that i'm telling you right now but i

00:24:40.400 could research more for next week is that he is a good guy who is like helping her out so he figured

00:24:45.660 out a way to smuggle a letter to her so you remember there's moby dick from last time so

00:24:50.360 moby dick who is uh sir something melville who was mary's secretary when she was being held by 0.99

00:24:55.780 bothwell so moby dick has a brother sir robert melville um bob dick who is familiar so what 0.97

00:25:03.820 happens is he's helping out like sir robert is like an okay person so thrako hit the letter in 0.96

00:25:09.900 the in sir robert's scabbard like of his sword and so the letter got to her and so she read the

00:25:15.820 letter and the letter said like you should break all ties with bothwell like this is how you can

00:25:19.300 survive also can i just say before we go on i love that they're confiscating letters but what

00:25:23.560 they're not confiscating apparently are swords they're like hide it on your sword they won't

00:25:29.000 take that away from you you go in yeah well no and that's true they were also they didn't want

00:25:35.480 mary to correspond with anybody because they didn't want her to reveal that they had killed

00:25:39.180 darnley and they didn't want anyone to offer her help but you're right you're right they're just

00:25:42.640 like you know what we don't accept on here letters so it's cool swords are good no worries yeah we

00:25:48.740 won't even search your sword like it's fine anyway so she sent a letter back i guess through the

00:25:52.720 scabbard and she was just like i can't break ties with bothwell i am pregnant and my child can't be

00:25:57.680 named illegitimate. There's also concerns about like if she had Bothwell's child, would like James

00:26:01.780 be murdered? Like there's a lot of stuff about like what would happen. Was this the big public

00:26:05.760 reveal of her presidency, her pregnancy? I'm not sure. I know I do have a thing. I'm not sure,

00:26:13.320 but at least Throcko knows and Sir Robert knows. Throcko heard that the Lords are going to make

00:26:18.840 her abdicate. So he smuggled another letter to her via Scabbard urging her. He said basically,

00:26:23.620 yeah, okay, they're going to give you this abdication paperwork, but like this will save

00:26:27.420 your life if you sign it and like anything that you it won't be legal like a forced abdication

00:26:32.200 is not legal and can and you can revoke it later so just sign it that will make you so like he had

00:26:38.180 been sent there to like negotiate her reinstatement and her release but now he's just trying to make

00:26:42.380 her be not murdered is his focus meanwhile in edinburgh to the surprise of nobody posters

00:26:50.820 A poster campaign.

00:26:52.840 John Knox returned to Edinburgh.

00:26:54.860 With his teenage bride.

00:26:56.540 With his teenage bride and their children. 1.00

00:26:59.260 And he thundered against the whore of Babylon. 0.99

00:27:02.400 He called her the Scarlet Adventuress. 1.00

00:27:05.140 Okay, that's dope as hell, John Knox.

00:27:07.520 That's the merch idea.

00:27:09.140 The Scarlet Adventuress.

00:27:11.040 I love it.

00:27:12.200 I would like to watch that show.

00:27:14.320 Me too.

00:27:15.800 So anyway, there's posters.

00:27:16.920 The posters are going up just being like, 1.00

00:27:18.080 Mary is a whore, et cetera. 0.99

00:27:19.840 John Knox is just back being like, look at my beard. She sucks. Don't look at my teenage bride. 1.00

00:27:25.620 It's totally not like a Courtney Stodden situation at all. He said, quote, God would send a great

00:27:30.820 plague in the whole nation if Mary was spared from punishment. So he, you know what? He was

00:27:35.840 just being like, she's awful. She sucks. And before she even arrived, then she arrived and 1.00

00:27:40.280 he's like, she's awful. And it's like, she's literally an 18 year old Catholic widow who's 1.00

00:27:44.480 wears pants sometimes. And he's all like, she's a devil. But now she's actually done stuff. So 0.98

00:27:49.220 like his sermons like make more sense maybe i don't know anyway whatever he's just he could

00:27:55.200 not be more excited that she did maybe did something he could be actually mad about so

00:27:59.160 throco is just like mary's pal this is you know when we get to the lady jane seymour award like

00:28:04.960 davy rizzio is strong contender obviously but throco is just like coming in clutch so he saw

00:28:11.060 again he's not seeing her but he's hearing that like she needs more gentle women around her she's

00:28:15.980 very few servants. There's just these like teen girls trailing after her. There's this like 1.00

00:28:20.380 pregnant wife who's like in her room all the time. She needed her girls. So he appealed to Elizabeth 1.00

00:28:26.560 that she needed more gentle women around her. And Mary Seaton from the Four Marys was allowed to

00:28:31.380 come join her. And then around the 24th of July, Mary had a miscarriage. So there's some timeline

00:28:39.840 stuff I want to get into. The widespread understanding of this is that she miscarried

00:28:47.880 twins, but I don't think she could have known it was twins that early.

00:28:54.920 Not with that level of obstetric medicine.

00:28:58.280 No. So I checked with Titswood Brigade member Isabel, who is a specialty trainee in obstetrics

00:29:02.920 and gynecology. And she said it is incredibly unlikely that at seven weeks, what she passed

00:29:07.720 wouldn't have been distinguishable as two sacks even if they weren't identical like even an

00:29:13.540 experienced midwife wouldn't necessarily be like oh that's that so so why would she have said it

00:29:19.760 was twins if she didn't know that but this is where the timeline of it all so it's like if she

00:29:25.100 became pregnant when Bothwell first kidnapped her which was a month before their marriage

00:29:30.600 she might have just been she wouldn't have wanted to admit that she got pregnant before she married 0.95

00:29:36.480 both well because then the child would be illegitimate because he was married to gene 0.99

00:29:40.220 at the time so she had to date her pregnancy as not happening until after she married both well 0.74

00:29:45.740 but if she was starting to show more her cover story might have been like oh it's twins like 0.86

00:29:51.040 right to cover the fact that she's looking more pregnant than maybe she should be is it also 1.00

00:29:57.320 possible that if it if the pregnancy dated from earlier then she might be far enough along at this 0.98

00:30:02.760 point to know it was twins that is possibly yeah yeah but i don't think she would have dated

00:30:07.500 i don't think she would have known right i guess a midwife could have seen so it's it's kind of

00:30:13.620 unclear it's just interesting to me that the commonly accepted thing here is that she miscarried

00:30:19.620 twins where it's like we don't actually know the right whatever passed from her body cannot be

00:30:26.620 examined at this point but yeah so i don't know it could have it could have been twins and it could

00:30:31.640 have been, Bothwell's twins. Anyway, she had a miscarriage. Guess what? She has a gazillion

00:30:36.540 health issues already. This was not, this is another one. The news of, you were asking like, 0.95

00:30:43.060 was her pregnancy widely known? In fact, no. So this news was kept from like the everyday people,

00:30:48.820 or from most people, from other nobles, I think too, because it would make people sympathetic to

00:30:53.780 her if they heard that she had miscarried and they didn't want people to have sympathy for her. 0.61

00:30:58.120 They wanted people to hate her. So I don't think people, I don't think the pregnancy was widely

00:31:02.780 known at that point. The miscarriage caused her to hemorrhage. She became incredibly ill

00:31:07.960 because she's also been not eating and in a stressful situation and has all these like

00:31:12.800 comorbidities. So of course, because the assholes are assholes, they're like, you know, it's a great 0.99

00:31:19.980 moment to get her to sign the abdication paperwork while she's bedridden, grieving her child loss. 1.00

00:31:26.140 so that is when they came to her lying in her bed so the person who brought the paperwork was in

00:31:31.260 fact lindsey and when she refused to sign the paperwork lindsey threatened to cut her throat

00:31:36.760 if she did not agree and so she signed so like bearing in mind what throcko had told her like

00:31:42.100 this can be redacted later like if you sign this under duress it doesn't count and i think i will

00:31:47.960 cut your throat really counts as duress in this situation especially being said by a man holding 0.95

00:31:52.800 a knife to your throat who you've seen murder other people while you're in bed and take it up. 0.98

00:31:57.660 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and you're in an Island where no one can get to you and you can't cry for 0.98

00:32:02.780 help anyway. So what she signed was paperwork confirming one saying like, I stepped down. I

00:32:08.360 am no longer queen of Scotland. The second one said the new region will be Hollywood icon,

00:32:12.460 Jimmy Stewart. And the third thing would appoint a regency council. So like Hollywood icon,

00:32:18.380 Jimmy Stewart is officially the region, but there'd also be a council of like advisors,

00:32:21.260 which would comprise basically all the all the greatest hits councilman jeremy jam you know the

00:32:26.960 guys so anyway in her own words vexed broken and unquiet she signed away her crown hoping that she

00:32:35.280 could get it back later so then bj's coronation was held in edinburgh she had like another i could

00:32:44.540 think of the baby size crown it's like another baby king go get the crown james

00:32:50.140 i assume it was a james yeah james needs this tiny crown james it says it's engraved james

00:32:57.920 baby james so mary wasn't told that this was happening she only was just like she was in her

00:33:02.480 like room you know i guess getting better and she was like why are there bonfires being lit and

00:33:06.940 people are like dancing in the gardens outside um and they're like oh they're celebrating because

00:33:12.100 the coronation of your son and mary was like james will avenge me you know once he stops being

00:33:18.160 a literal infant james will avenge me it says so on the flag outside it does actually she stared

00:33:25.960 at that flag so long that night when she was in that room i know what james will do he will avenge

00:33:31.100 me oh lord i know again she's just she and thrako have a good thing going with messages back and

00:33:36.080 forth thrako gets the messages to elizabeth so she told elizabeth she would rather herself and

00:33:39.740 the prince were in your realm than elsewhere in christendom so she's just really being like i wish

00:33:43.580 i was with elizabeth i think things would be okay if i was with her and she's got the reason for

00:33:47.220 thinking that because elizabeth the only one sending her people who were trying to help her

00:33:50.320 yeah like yeah elizabeth is the one who like made her be not murdered yeah right now so at the

00:33:58.240 coronation though like although there was bonfires and stuff and people were writing letters being

00:34:01.960 like everyone in scotland is so excited about the new baby king it's like no one was excited 0.95

00:34:05.360 most of the nobles did not attend the coronation and even like the asshole rebels like they'd taken 0.96

00:34:10.680 over the council but they didn't have the support of like the wider nobility who were just kind of 0.93

00:34:15.580 like not cool with this like coup that was happening even if they had been on the anti-bothwell side

00:34:23.060 before like the guy there's like a core group of people who are like keeping mary on this island

00:34:27.860 and that's not everybody that's this group actually fun fact that's what my notes say fun fact

00:34:36.240 so this is just because hollywood icon jimmy stewart is coming back on the scene so i just

00:34:40.820 wanted to clarify a bit more about him so before mary even returned to scotland so to recap very

00:34:47.180 quickly so her father died when she was six days old she became the baby queen of scotland her

00:34:53.460 mother marie de guise fought until she marie de guise was named the regent but then like hollywood

00:34:58.940 icon jimmy stewart and a bunch of other protestant guys were like no you shouldn't be the regent 0.84

00:35:02.580 we should be the group of asshole regents and in fact hollywood icon jimmy stewart was just like i 0.97

00:35:08.200 should be goddamn king this is like in the marie digge's era so he was like if i was legitimate 0.99

00:35:14.460 then i would be the king right now so he tried to get his mother's marriage annulled to her 0.98

00:35:22.440 husband which would mean that he would be the legitimate son of the king which is not true but

00:35:28.020 he tried that doesn't work because he's not the son of the queen so right is it like any child

00:35:36.160 that the king the king has not i don't know i'm not it did not work his petition was rejected for

00:35:42.520 being nonsensical presumably but this just shows like even before mary came he was like i should

00:35:47.720 be in charge so you know like with the caucus of north scenario and everything like he was always

00:35:51.300 actively working against her and that's because he always clearly felt like he should be in charge

00:35:56.620 so now he's the region so like he's got what he always wanted i guess except she was still alive 0.98

00:36:00.940 and could rally supporters at a moment's notice as soon as she was off this goddamn island 0.93

00:36:05.060 so he was overseeing her quote care at lock leave-in so he is the one who's making he was 0.96

00:36:13.120 treating her really badly like basically like neglecting her actively like just trying to

00:36:19.120 humble her and break her psychologically so she wouldn't attempt to restore herself to the crown

00:36:23.300 but he did he forgot no one puts mary in a corner this is what she's at her strongest when she's

00:36:30.260 being isolated and someone's trying to bring her down but that's the reason why she was like not 0.99

00:36:34.260 given enough ladies. She didn't get her outfits. She wasn't fed enough. She didn't have enough

00:36:39.080 things to do. She requested a professional embroiderer. She wanted to have a household. 1.00

00:36:44.320 She wanted to bedazzle her outfits. But instead, she was sent. So the court embroiderer traced out

00:36:52.600 a pattern that he sent her and thread and was like, here's how you do it. But they wouldn't

00:36:56.560 send the actual embroiderer there for her. Because she's on a little tiny island, she couldn't do 0.99

00:37:01.940 like horseback riding or hunting or like the things she liked to do. So she just really got

00:37:06.020 into embroidery at this point. So she already was like doing embroidery. That was like a thing

00:37:10.960 lots of people did. It was a creative outlet. It was a way to sort of communicate your thoughts

00:37:17.300 and feelings. There's in the book, the Claire Hunter book that I used a lot as a reference.

00:37:24.760 She talks about Catherine de Medici never wrote journals, but she did so much embroidery. And

00:37:29.020 through that you kind of get it it's like looking at someone's scrapbook it's like what did they

00:37:32.320 choose to do and what was their style like you can really see what they were thinking through

00:37:36.540 what they were doing so she really did embroidery just for self-expression i think sewing is tactile

00:37:41.040 it has a rhythm it steadies the mind and calms the spirit it can be therapeutic so maybe this

00:37:45.900 is just like helping her in that way as well it's also a way to communicate for those whose voices

00:37:50.580 are going unheard in other ways claire hunter wrote and it's always i'm sure this your book

00:37:56.240 gets into this as well but it's always devalued in like every single period drama you've ever

00:38:01.660 watched so I don't want to sit at home and embroider all the time I want to have adventures

00:38:05.480 and it's just like I hate that so much like this is it's devalued because it's women's work but

00:38:11.420 it's art and it's practical it's a skill it's not just a thing you do while you're waiting for your

00:38:18.920 husband to come home from the war like Mary Queen of Scots is embroidering it's not like

00:38:24.020 it's a huge thing yeah it's for sure let me just say wait the title of the book again is

00:38:30.000 embroidering her truth mary queen of scots in the language of power by claire hunter it's really

00:38:34.280 really really interesting like she talks about mary queen of scots but also about that sort of

00:38:37.260 stuff like how the power in embroidery and i think you're right like there's so many things like in

00:38:43.640 the um brave the pixar movie she's like i don't want to do embroidery i want to do archery or 0.88

00:38:48.140 like in game of thrones like sansa is like i want to do embroidery and everyone's like she sucks

00:38:51.840 aria is cool because she does sword fighting mary also did sword fighting but like she yeah no the

00:38:57.220 embroidery that she did was and we're going to get to this in next week's episode really expresses

00:39:03.060 what she was thinking and feeling and we can really like a journal would like why are people

00:39:08.120 not like oh she's writing a journal that's women's work it's like anyway even painting i think is

00:39:13.460 respected more than because men paint true true yeah so this is a period of time where embroidery

00:39:20.580 was becoming a thing that lots of women did. I don't know if I forget it's in this book, but like

00:39:25.260 just the kinds of needles and thread and stuff that there were like, it was people really getting

00:39:29.100 into it. Like Catherine de Medici was so into it. She left behind like hundreds of thousands of

00:39:33.420 things and you can really learn about people by what they did. Anyway, so she's getting really

00:39:38.080 into embroidery at this point in her life for various reasons. And I like the idea that it's

00:39:43.860 a way to communicate for people who are not able to communicate in other ways. And so the weeks

00:39:49.900 slash months went on and she acclimated to what her situation was. She was able to stroll around

00:39:56.020 the gardens. She worked on her embroidery. She did other indoor things, playing cards.

00:40:00.620 She danced and played music when she was able to. So this could be mistaken for the people there.

00:40:06.600 At first she shows up, they're like, we have to keep an eye on her. She's a crafty bitch. 1.00

00:40:09.620 But eventually they're like, she seems fine. So she starts getting more freedoms and more things 1.00

00:40:13.720 to do. Not freedoms, but just like she's allowed to do more things. We won't be hovering over you

00:40:18.960 all the time because you're probably going to be needle pointing. Yeah. And the other people don't

00:40:23.800 have the energy to be following her 24 hours a day for this long. In August. So she was arrested

00:40:29.020 in June. And so this is like two months later. Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart came to visit her.

00:40:33.500 So baby James had been like corner crowned in July. So months later, Jimmy Stewart comes to

00:40:39.680 visit Mary. I love this detail. So he arrived on like one of her horses and he like fell off into

00:40:46.400 the lock when he arrived and mary's like a horse yeah exactly exactly so then he came to her room 0.70

00:40:53.120 and he started just like mansplain yelling at her but like how dare you mary bothwell you're 0.97

00:40:58.040 such a shitty person and then he was like but i don't know should i accept a job of regent 1.00

00:41:02.960 and she was like uh well you are the bastard son of our shared father so fuck you and he's like 1.00

00:41:08.700 i already am the regent i was just asking you to be polite so actually so rewind to what he's been 1.00

00:41:13.880 doing. So all ruined actually all the way back to when she had the gastric ulcer that time before

00:41:19.860 Darnley was even dead. So Hollywood Eck and Jimmy Stewart, then he's like, what? Mary is getting

00:41:24.560 sick and might die. And he like started secretly like taking some of her possessions, like her

00:41:28.800 jewelry and stuff. Cause he's like, well, then I can be in charge. And so now that she was actually

00:41:33.600 in jail, he decided that he had the right to all of her things. And so he took everything, including

00:41:38.320 not just like jewelry that were like the crown jewels of Scotland, but things that were like

00:41:41.680 personal gifts given to mary like by her first husband francis and things like that did he take

00:41:47.220 the tortoise i don't know because if he did i hope he's burning i don't know i i know so like

00:41:55.080 she had you know she wrote a will but we think this jewel to this person and this jewel i think

00:41:59.160 he took everything he took everything her most like on paper priceless thing was she had this

00:42:04.380 many stringed necklace of rare black pearls, each as large as a grape. Yeah. Which Mary had worn 1.00

00:42:11.680 when she was queen of France and he needed money for Scotland. So this is the thing. He took the

00:42:16.340 jewelry to like try and sell it, to like pawn it. Well, he gave some to his wife and then like other

00:42:21.180 things started to pawn. So he offered these like black pearls to Catherine de' Medici, who was

00:42:25.080 interested. You know, she likes a black look. It's her color. He also offered them to Elizabeth

00:42:30.420 the first and elizabeth the first bought them and actually her famous portrait of like elizabeth

00:42:34.580 the armada portrait she's wearing them oh yeah yeah i'll post that on instagram i know i know

00:42:41.500 the tortoise anyway so speaking of elizabeth so once hollywood icon jimmy stewart was installed

00:42:48.500 as regent and it seemed like mary's murder was not like gonna happen anytime soon so throco was

00:42:54.900 recalled but elizabeth never formally accepted jimmy stewart as regent because she could not

00:43:00.400 be seen to condone mary being kicked out of being queen because that would set a precedent against

00:43:06.460 her anyway meanwhile so mary is just like in this castle whatevering um but it's kind of like they

00:43:13.320 can't just like keep her there forever like they need to they're like okay we want to prove that

00:43:18.720 she was complicit in the murder of darnley a thing she was not complicit in so they needed to make

00:43:23.040 fake up some evidence to make it look like she was by keeping her at lock leave-in without a trial 0.99

00:43:27.480 while the assholes could keep spreading rumors putting up posters and making everyone think 0.97

00:43:32.020 she was guilty but like they couldn't put her on trial without like any evidence at all and so 0.98

00:43:38.160 my least favorite thing to talk about one of my least favorite things to talk about in terms of

00:43:43.980 mary queen of scots whenever any book i get to get to this part i'm just like god damn it is the

00:43:48.320 casket letters are you familiar with the casket letters vaguely but not enough to explain what

00:43:54.940 Well, a lot of people have a lot of theories, but I think everyone mostly agrees.

00:43:59.720 And now we're just going to take a break for a word from our sponsors.

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00:46:10.020 the world of sonic the hedgehog has been thrust into a not so dark not so stormy hard-boiled

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00:47:09.640 And we're back.

00:47:13.600 So they were letters that were found in Bothwell's cabinet.

00:47:17.940 They were all letters sent to Bothwell.

00:47:20.300 I'm going to tell you what I think is though it's true because I think it is true.

00:47:24.880 So they were letters from various people to Bothwell.

00:47:27.760 their letters some were from gene gordon some were from scott afruin anna tronson some were

00:47:33.700 from mary but those were just kind of like business letters some of them were like love

00:47:39.280 sonnets like some of them were like oh please i miss you come back to me like those are probably

00:47:43.460 from anna right yeah but anyway they were taken they were rewritten by somebody um none of them

00:47:49.260 have like none of them have signatures it's like let's just cut the bottoms off and pretend that

00:47:54.680 no one like the dates are all messed up like even the ones that maybe are from mary like the dates

00:47:59.360 are wrong there's like just i forget she refers in one like basically they found all these letters

00:48:04.140 in bothell's house and they're like what if we say they're all from mary that will make it look

00:48:08.140 like she was having an affair with him because the letters are all like oh i miss you i love you

00:48:11.100 they're like let's pretend mary wrote all these letters and she did write some of them way way

00:48:14.840 back yeah so the point of them was to make it seem like mary had been in love with him for a long

00:48:20.740 time and that they had worked together to kill Darnley none of the letters are like let's work

00:48:25.560 together to kill Darnley the letters are like hey so did you do that thing you promised they're all 0.89

00:48:30.300 like that must mean kill Darnley it was like can you please send me child support for your Danish 0.99

00:48:35.060 son yeah exactly okay and the whole thing is so stupid like William Cecil was like this isn't 1.00

00:48:42.080 gonna hold up in court you're assholes so the original letters were mysteriously lost and only 0.98

00:48:47.280 copies and extracts were provided later when there's a trial and only copies of these copies 0.93

00:48:52.840 have survived so like the letters were like this is the point at which the letters first were some

00:48:58.600 of the assholes were like we just found these letters they totally prove she's guilty and they

00:49:01.740 send them to william sesal and he was like no they don't never show these to anyone but like 1.00

00:49:06.540 exactly um the rumor it's right it's daniel craig and glass onion just being like it's so stupid 0.99

00:49:15.760 why are you so stupid um William Cecil is just like does anyone have two brain cells in Scotland 0.96

00:49:21.780 anyway so this is where the letters show up they're gonna recur throughout this story but 1.00

00:49:26.340 this is where they came from this is when they first arrived and I think it's important to note

00:49:30.940 that at that time William Cecil was like this isn't evidence you guys are dummies but anyway

00:49:36.340 rumors started spreading like the letters existed that showed that she was guilty and people talked

00:49:41.400 about them and that itself became sort of evidence like just the fact that there's a rumor that

00:49:46.480 evidence existed yeah so they would never withstand scrutiny in court mary was never

00:49:50.820 permitted to see them in fact kind of nobody was allowed to see them we have evidence it's so good

00:49:56.800 no one can look yeah so meanwhile so back in scotland hollywood and jimmy stewart declared

00:50:03.640 peace like that's not how that works time to declare bankruptcy he said

00:50:08.280 so this is september so like the timeline is wild like she was kidnapped in april she was

00:50:15.800 arrested in june and out september of the same year and she's going to turn 25 in december right

00:50:21.640 that's the whole leg and then all these things change so on december 4th four days before her

00:50:27.800 25th birthday she was charged with the murder of darnley and with the intent to murder her son

00:50:33.640 That's new.

00:50:35.160 Yeah, that is new.

00:50:36.520 So these acts both count as high treason.

00:50:38.440 So she was charged just before she was 25.

00:50:40.480 So just under the wire before she got all these powers that she would have gotten.

00:50:44.720 So Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart was now basically king in all but name, which is all he wanted,

00:50:51.260 although he wanted to be king in actual name.

00:50:52.760 But he, like every person in this story, he'd burned a lot of bridges and a lot of people

00:50:59.740 hated him.

00:51:00.820 He also had an unpleasant personality.

00:51:03.060 And he had personally betrayed basically everyone. 0.99

00:51:06.100 All these like people, you know, are murderers.

00:51:08.900 No one likes the guy who's in on all the schemes, but is never around to take the blame for the schemes.

00:51:13.740 Yeah.

00:51:14.400 Yeah.

00:51:16.000 Exactly.

00:51:16.520 And so some of the people who were mad at him was the Hamilton family.

00:51:19.820 So they were the ones who were like historically always the regents of all the baby kings.

00:51:24.400 And they were like, wait a minute.

00:51:25.700 We are the regents of the baby kings. 0.74

00:51:27.380 And they were mad that he had become the regent of this baby king when they were like, but that's the Hamilton family job.

00:51:32.240 so they were like you know what we support mary now and so her like supporters started to like

00:51:37.540 like she had supporters and they just started to like coalesce into a group that became known as

00:51:41.440 the marians i would call them the maid marians but so the marians were they were trying to find

00:51:48.360 ways to rescue her from this like alcatraz like castle prison let me see other supporters

00:51:53.220 included cock of the north jr the gordons all of the highlands like the gang the gang anyway so

00:52:01.140 we're going to do a whole episode later, later on, after we finish with Mary, I'm going to do

00:52:05.400 like an episode about the four Marys. So I haven't really gotten into details about them because

00:52:09.820 there's a lot of stuff to talk about otherwise. But one of the four Marys was Mary Fleming and

00:52:15.960 her husband was in fact Scottish Machiavelli, but she was still on Mary's side and presumably,

00:52:23.000 and hopefully she kind of got Scottish Machiavelli to like be more on Mary's side as well.

00:52:27.200 And she's probably the person. So Mary was sent a secret gift. I don't know if this is

00:52:30.940 also in the scabbard of a sword. Somehow Mary acquired a secret gift, which was a ring

00:52:35.380 representing Aesop's fable of the mouse and the lion in which the mouse gnaws through the lion's

00:52:40.840 ropes. So I guess it's the thing about like how like even though you're trapped, you can still

00:52:44.820 escape even though you feel like powerless. Mary Fleming probably sent this to Mary. And so it

00:52:50.300 could have just been like, hey girl, don't give up. But it could have also been her being like,

00:52:53.220 hey, guess who's on your side now? Scottish Machiavelli, my husband. It could have been

00:52:57.200 indicating that who knows there's a lot of codes there's a lot of like creatures and animals and

00:53:02.280 just like like the posters in Edinburgh it's like well this poster has the hair and everyone knows

00:53:06.760 that that means but like there's a lot of symbolism going on that I don't entirely understand yeah

00:53:11.820 it feels like it's family crests but for individual people like how Richard III was always like the

00:53:17.240 wild boar or whatever Richard the Lionheart they're just like Bothwell the rabbit we're

00:53:23.680 running out. It's been a minute. I don't know. Yeah. So anyway, she was sent this Aesop's Fables

00:53:29.840 inspired ring by probably Mary Fleming, who was made to Scottish Machiavelli. So it was probably

00:53:34.740 some sort of message, but we don't know what the message was. And then, please know, Mary has been

00:53:40.560 nonstop scheming as well. While her supporters are trying to figure out ways to free her, she's just 0.99

00:53:44.460 like, fuck that. I'm going to free myself. She's climbed out of windows onto horses. She's put on 1.00

00:53:49.320 men's outfits. She outsmarted during the Rizzio March. She's like, how many times has she run

00:53:55.020 off into the darkest night on a horse after climbing on a window? She's just like, I got

00:53:58.800 this. If no one's going to come save me, I will save myself. So one of the things she was using

00:54:03.460 was her personal charm and beauty, which was I think also why people were like, oh, don't trust

00:54:09.300 her. But she could win people over with her personal charm and beauty. And she did. So this 0.99

00:54:14.660 did backfire in the sense in one instance here where one of the nobles who was there guarding her

00:54:21.560 like fell in love with her so hard that he like burst into her room at 4 a.m to say if she took

00:54:26.520 him as a lover he would help her escape she had him removed but also like if you want to help her

00:54:32.120 that's not how you do that yeah that guy's not going to be helpful i'm not sure that's a good

00:54:37.600 subtle schemer you want on your team no no so it's yeah separating the wheat from the chaff 0.84

00:54:43.540 who's going to be like a helpful person here you were going to be a hindrance sir yeah so he was 0.65

00:54:49.520 that guy was actually the son of the guy from the rizzio murder who showed up in armor that guy's

00:54:54.240 son of course it was that whole family is like subtlety never heard of it no no so a useful ally

00:55:02.940 was george douglas who is the younger brother a douglas but a good one um the younger brother of

00:55:10.900 WD-40 and Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart. So another brother of Euphemia. So he, I don't know how old

00:55:19.120 he was, but bearing in mind, Mary is 25. Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart is like 10, 12 years older.

00:55:25.540 He's probably around Mary's age, probably. So like a young man. And with Bothwell now,

00:55:31.440 everyone assumed he was dead. So there's a thing about like, is Mary going to take another husband

00:55:35.680 was also a question slash concern and george douglas could have been a good option so this

00:55:42.100 might have been part of what she was thinking about too but also the best character in this

00:55:47.800 episode young willie douglas who is that's how that's how he's known young willie is what he's

00:55:55.340 called adorable aka the orphan no poor guy he's a he's a young teen and he's either one of wd-40's

00:56:06.560 young cousins or his illegitimate son or something he's like a douglas but he's also like lower class

00:56:11.740 somehow and kind of like a servant-esque person and so another person who is there and always

00:56:18.680 ready to help is mary seaton from the four marys so with those pieces in place we're going to go

00:56:23.100 through escape attempt number one. So this is March 1568. So she's been there since like the

00:56:31.280 previous June. So not quite a year at this point. She's now clearly gotten like her health has

00:56:36.880 restored after the like miscarriage, hemorrhage, not eating for two weeks, everything. And she's

00:56:42.220 like ready to climb out some windows and like get this done. So what happened this time is that I'm

00:56:47.680 not sure how she got this, like George or young Willie, one of them helped get Mary the clothing

00:56:52.600 worn by a laundress so like they're on an island so like the laundry ladies would come in drop off

00:56:58.040 the laundry pick up the laundry and then like go back on their boat so mary disguised yourself as

00:57:02.200 a washerwoman she left the island on a pre-arranged rowboat but the guy rowing the boat was like

00:57:07.560 your hands are like really clean also you're like six feet tall yeah so for some reason he

00:57:15.800 recognized her and he's like i i'm pretty sure you're not a laundress and then he just like

00:57:20.200 rode her back and brought her back to jail we do love an elaborate disguise though so at least 0.70

00:57:25.360 she does love an elaborate disguise i think maybe that gives her confidence the disguises 0.99

00:57:32.200 because that was she was always into disguises anyway outfits i also feel like it gives her

00:57:36.960 something to do because she's been locked in this room like like if you had told me eight months into

00:57:41.480 covid do you want to dress up like a washerwoman and try to sneak out of your apartment without

00:57:45.800 your roommate seeing you i'd have all into that 100 for sure absolutely absolutely exactly yeah 0.97

00:57:51.100 so after this like this so i guess the guy told on her that guy sucks um and then her security

00:57:56.820 heightened again like remember she's like super high security at first and then they kind of 1.00

00:58:00.160 lessened and now it's like super high like bitches back on her schemes calling reinforcements 0.99

00:58:05.100 it's like we thought it's like we waited a year we thought that we like demoralized her but in fact 0.99

00:58:09.960 we only made her stronger so she wrote i am so closely watched that i have no leisure but during

00:58:14.820 their dinner or when they sleep that i get up for their daughters sleep with me so like the teen

00:58:19.600 girl fan club are still just like we love you you're so cool wd-40's wife is still there sleeping

00:58:24.400 with her like so she's just being followed all the time george um george douglas fought with his

00:58:31.300 brother wd-40 after this because i guess he's just like this is like i don't i don't think he's like

00:58:36.060 we should free her but anyway they had an argument about it the way you're treating her is kind of 0.82

00:58:40.220 fucked up bro yeah so george was banished from lock leave-in but not a bad thing because back 0.94

00:58:46.800 on the mainland he was able to start rallying her supporters together like getting them like 0.97

00:58:51.960 aligned instead of just like here's the you know the gordons up in the highlands and here's these

00:58:56.160 people here and here's the hamiltons he's just like let's like come together as like a team

00:59:00.780 avengers assemble across yes yes yes marians assemble so escape attempt number two so mary

00:59:08.480 was as we've discussed numerous times but bears repeating six feet tall the walls of the castle 0.78

00:59:13.180 seven feet tall she's just like i can reach so she decided to climb out

00:59:19.580 so well she's just like here's what we're going to do climb out but first she got 0.79

00:59:28.860 mary seaton to try like to see like what's on the other side where we're going to land on or

00:59:33.280 whatever but mary seaton fell and hurt herself and the guards figured out what was going on and 0.99

00:59:37.540 then stopped her from doing that. By then, so WD-40's wife, Agnes, who had been her like 24-hour

00:59:43.880 shadow, had had her baby. And because of this was not able to be by Mary's side 24-7 because of like

00:59:49.300 baby, I don't know, not the people breastfed their own babies, but just baby reasons. She 0.64

00:59:54.040 just like was busy. And Mary took advantage of this with escape number three, colon, this time

01:00:00.520 for real so may 1568 she's been so it's basically almost a year that she's been there so may 1st

01:00:08.360 1568 she wrote a letter to elizabeth being like oh like you know sad i don't know not that anyone

01:00:14.740 would see this letter so it's not she's pretending to be sad like she is sad but basically she's

01:00:19.060 just like this sucks like no one's coming to rescue me i hate it and then the next day it all 0.59

01:00:24.140 went down. Allison, get ready. I'm so ready. I'm so ready for the, for the ocean's 11 of it all. 0.89

01:00:31.340 The young Willie 11. So May 2nd, time for the annual May Day celebrations at Lock Leaven,

01:00:36.820 which includes in a previous episode I talked about, there was the celebration they did one

01:00:41.400 time where there's the queen of the bean, like whoever finds the bean in the cake gets to be

01:00:45.640 like queen for the day and stuff. That's what I call my cat when she's showing the little

01:00:49.520 bottoms of her feet. I call her the queen of the bean. Queen of the bean? 0.96

01:00:53.260 that's a merch idea as well so in this celebration in this festival there was a similar thing

01:00:59.280 called the abbot of unreason okay love i feel like they're trying so hard not to call it wacky pope

01:01:06.660 day but like so it's wacky pope day so this tradition basically means that somebody of high

01:01:13.560 status was demoted for the day to act as a servant to somebody else basically so a queen of the bean 0.92

01:01:19.220 adjacent thing but for not just a woman a real festival of fools from hunchback of notre dame 0.88

01:01:24.740 sort of thing yes so what happened is willie young willie i kind of picture it's like y-u-n-g 0.91

01:01:32.740 willie is like a rapper name young willie so he schemed this like teenage boy he's great so he

01:01:40.800 schemed to make sure that he got the role of abbot of unreason and then he chose mary to be his

01:01:45.300 servant so this rule required her to follow willie wherever he went which set up a reason for them to

01:01:50.100 be in each other's company earlier in the day young willie had secured all the boats but one

01:01:56.400 on the castle shore and while he was doing that there was actually a close call and wd-40

01:02:00.680 noticed young willie at the boats and he's like what's well what's he doing the orphan

01:02:05.100 so mary queen of scots had to pretend to faint to distract him which worked i love yeah it's not

01:02:11.480 quite a fake going into labor moment but it is adjacent oh no women problems yeah and then later

01:02:18.040 wd-40's mother noticed horsemen gathering on the far side shore of the lock so there's like

01:02:23.400 the castle is on this island then there's water then there's like the mainland

01:02:26.420 and so the mother noticed like there's it looks like there's like a some sort of team some sort

01:02:33.040 of avengers assembling over on the other side and mary distracted her by being like you know 1.00

01:02:37.880 who's a piece of shit? Hollywood, I could Jimmy Stewart, your son. And that worked. That distracted 1.00

01:02:43.780 her. And so a pearl earring was to act as this is so just like, this is so Mary. She's like,

01:02:48.900 here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to escape and dial like this. There's going to be disguises.

01:02:53.520 There's going to be secret symbols. Like this is like, this is her. So a pearl earring was to act

01:02:58.880 as a signal for escape is discovery and return assigned to Mary that all was ready. So young

01:03:03.800 willie would like lose it and then find it and when mary saw that happening those would be

01:03:07.620 simple like that would tell her she's gonna go down so dramatic it's like when someone caused

01:03:13.240 twice like a screech owl from outside they're like now it's time to go i love her so when she

01:03:20.000 received the earring she went to her room saying she needed to be alone to pray but when inside

01:03:26.160 she put on a disguise of uh like a chambermaid's outfit probably not the same washerwoman outfit 0.99

01:03:33.880 as before because we'd established that didn't work that didn't work no but a different outfit 0.95

01:03:38.320 so anyway and um mary seaton put on mary's outfit so that she could like stand and like be her was 1.00

01:03:44.040 mary seaton also six feet tall i don't know she couldn't climb up the walls so maybe not

01:03:49.900 standing shoes exactly so meanwhile young willie who is the abbot of unreason who's also kind of

01:03:56.860 like the party leader was just like woo let's all get really drunk like more drunk than that

01:04:02.520 let's all get even more drunk everyone even more drunk just trying to get everybody distracted but

01:04:07.960 also incapacitated especially wd-40 who had the keys to get out of the castle anyway willie young

01:04:16.480 willie managed to get wd-40 drunk enough that he could grab the ring of keys so then mary seaton

01:04:23.460 replaced mary in her room so i guess maybe she would stand by the window and be like oh i'm so

01:04:26.980 sad i'm mary queen of scots me while mary in her disguise literally just walked out of the room

01:04:33.420 crossed the busy courtyard with people in it who were just like we're all drunk willie's a great

01:04:39.780 party host and she just like went out the front door of the gate like of the castle she just like

01:04:43.920 went outside she must have been like shitting bricks the whole time though right oh i'm sure 0.61

01:04:49.380 so scared yeah good for her so then young young willie locked the door behind them and then threw

01:04:55.260 the key down the mouth of a cannon which i'm not sure if that means everyone else is trapped inside

01:04:59.620 now but i think it does so there was a boat waiting she was ferried across the lock to a

01:05:04.360 horseman on the other side where george was was leading things and then they sped off to freedom

01:05:10.400 Hell yeah.

01:05:11.620 Can you give me just your immediate feedback on her escape plan and the Ocean's Eleven of it all?

01:05:16.860 I have two thoughts immediately. 0.99

01:05:19.060 Number one, we love a girl with a scheme, a secret signal, a fake person in the window.

01:05:25.380 It's wonderful. 0.86

01:05:27.160 It's Shakespearean.

01:05:28.420 She's obviously having a lot of fun because there's no reason for it to be this elaborate and so good for her.

01:05:34.120 Thought number two, everyone in Scotland is so bad at schemes.

01:05:38.380 Mary is nailing it.

01:05:39.840 And everyone around her is like, let's assemble my army on the bank in broad daylight and make sure I stand right here.

01:05:48.540 Like, come on, guys.

01:05:50.900 You got to pull your weight on the group project is all I'm saying. 1.00

01:05:55.080 Well, but the fact that they're all like, we can't let this bitch out of our sight, except one night a year when we all get drunk and let this bitch out of our sight. 1.00

01:06:02.560 We put her in the custody of a scheming 14 year old. 1.00

01:06:07.900 Yeah.

01:06:08.140 so if you like this story i do want to recommend mary queen of scotts escape from luck leaving

01:06:12.900 castle by theresa breslin in illustrated children's picture book which is a great

01:06:18.460 subject for a children's picture book okay so she has escaped and she headed off to hamilton palace

01:06:25.680 because remember the regents there they're just like we support you because we hate your piece 0.98

01:06:29.700 of shit brother because we should be the regents not him and she's like don't like your reasoning 0.98

01:06:33.720 but i'll accept your accommodations so she was reunited with all the nobles still little to her 0.99

01:06:40.000 cause who george had got together young willie sticks with her by the way good for him for the

01:06:45.140 rest of this whole for the rest of her life allison good for young willie which i'm willing

01:06:51.580 y-u-n-g now no in terms of just like there's so many awful people and some people when people

01:07:01.140 are good like him and like davy rizzio it's just like yes yes i'm glad she's got a couple

01:07:07.080 supporting performance candidates here because she deserves them because everyone else around

01:07:11.500 her is the worst absolutely sort of somebody who's well i feel like that was part of what

01:07:16.340 she spent like she's there for a year like some like health issues and stuff but she couldn't

01:07:19.520 really like actively scheme but she's just sussing out who's here like the servants like who's

01:07:23.820 like these teenage girls are they useful no like is this like whatever like who is like smart and 0.56

01:07:29.580 actually helpful and it's like you know who is the orphan young willie that's and she was right

01:07:34.980 that's who it is that's who she needed that's yeah so she's at hamilton palace when news of

01:07:40.260 her escape reached elizabeth elizabeth sent a letter of support because she did not want queens

01:07:46.640 being captured by their subjects which i just every time elizabeth does something that's like

01:07:51.440 yeah girl go i'm like the narrative is so much just like elizabeth and mary hated each other

01:07:55.940 where it's like, no, in this instance, Elizabeth was just like, we are queens and I do not want

01:07:59.860 you to be in prison. And I'm happy you're not in prison. Yes. I would like you to be out of prison

01:08:04.020 and ruling Scotland over there. That would be great. Yeah. So then some more paperwork happens

01:08:09.720 because everyone is just like, you know what we need to do? Sign a paper being like, we support

01:08:13.040 Mary now. Paperwork. This is signed by another 12 days of Christmas. Nine earls, nine bishops,

01:08:20.060 18 lords a leaping and 100 others signed a proclamation saying like, we will serve an 0.99

01:08:25.840 obey mary queen of scots this document also denounced the confederate assholes as traitors

01:08:31.100 declared mary's abdication was invalid and you know who put this one in there name the hamiltons

01:08:36.760 as the heiress to the throne after her and baby prince james they were like may i make one small

01:08:43.520 request for this document he's like okay is your request to be regent's yes please anyway they

01:08:53.580 also were like and you know you're single now because we all think bothwell is dead he's dead

01:08:58.340 to us they're like why don't you marry aaron jr who is a hamilton but you might recall like

01:09:03.860 not mentally capable to do much of anything at this point she was like we'll see about that guys 0.85

01:09:11.280 how about you sign the paper first yeah let's how about you just like get me be queen first then

01:09:16.340 we'll talk about like which douglas you want me to marry yeah great anyway the group quickly

01:09:20.620 gain more supporters troops were rallied so this was like she was in prison for a year

01:09:26.120 and then two weeks after her escape she's leading an army of 6 000 people yes like

01:09:32.540 like people the people who supported her never stopped supporting her like they were right and 0.97

01:09:37.680 they also just like hollywood icon jimmy stewart like piece of shit like they're just and also 0.98

01:09:42.460 she's the queen like a lot of people believe that as well it's just like you can't treat a queen 0.95

01:09:45.600 this way you can't do this to a monarch anyway hollywood icon jimmy stewart is like now officially

01:09:50.780 like the leader of the other army but i feel like he's always the leader of the other army

01:09:53.980 and he was in glasgow so she's like i want to go to glasgow where he is and i want to face off

01:09:58.980 against him personally like by battle let us try it she said so she just wanted to like go there

01:10:06.160 and murder him which good for her i would like that yeah well especially after that time when

01:10:11.000 he went to visit her in prison and he was all like me i don't know should i be the regent you 1.00

01:10:15.040 piece of shit. Like, he's awful. She now knew he was awful. She'd seen the paperwork and stuff. 1.00

01:10:20.260 So Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart knew he had to attack quickly before like the... So she had 6,000

01:10:27.280 people, but I think there could be more like once the Highlanders got there, but they just like had

01:10:30.860 to commute. So he was like, I need to attack before her army gets any bigger. Like she's

01:10:35.220 getting more supporters wherever she goes. So she had chosen the Earl of Argyle to lead her troops.

01:10:41.760 He's a guy who's been like here and there in the story, mostly loyal to her.

01:10:45.260 But anyways, they went like the battle is happening.

01:10:47.680 It's they're having a battle.

01:10:49.200 But then the Earl of Argyll collapsed mid battle.

01:10:52.100 Is this because he like fell ill or was old or was this because he it was a planned betrayal and he was secretly working against her like anything is possible.

01:11:03.280 But that was kind of the worst timing because they now didn't have like a leader like of their army.

01:11:11.280 So Mary tried to rally the troops herself,

01:11:12.880 but found that the men had started fighting amongst themselves.

01:11:17.080 So these, I don't know.

01:11:18.520 This isn't the battle.

01:11:19.520 I was confused with the other one where they're all drinking wine all day.

01:11:22.580 I'm like, Melana explains that.

01:11:23.660 I'm like, but here, I don't know.

01:11:25.060 Anyway, so she had to flee, but you know what? 0.97

01:11:27.120 She's good at fleeing. 0.98

01:11:28.600 So she and her small entourage had to outmaneuver Hollywood, 0.99

01:11:32.240 I can Jimmy Stewart's supporters on the roads.

01:11:34.320 So like she couldn't go anywhere where they would find her,

01:11:37.160 but also the roads were all full with Hollywood,

01:11:39.360 I can Jimmy Stewart's supporters.

01:11:40.820 So she had to go south.

01:11:42.280 She had to stay off the main roads.

01:11:43.640 She had to go through like the woods.

01:11:45.640 Here's how she described this later.

01:11:47.760 I have endured injuries, calamities, imprisonment, famine, cold, heat, flight, 92 miles across country without stopping.

01:11:55.040 And then I have had to sleep upon the ground and drink sour milk and eat oatmeal without bread.

01:12:00.500 And in the meantime, they demolish all the houses of my servants and I cannot aid them.

01:12:05.100 So she is going through it.

01:12:06.680 this sounds like hot king charles ii on the run hiding under trees her descendant who also

01:12:14.160 notably had a boat-based disguise escape and so did bonnie prince charlie right i think so

01:12:23.380 yeah this her lineage is just like people who like disguises in boats but this is very much

01:12:29.260 that like you're right like he had to sleep in the tree like this is her version of that

01:12:32.240 I love that all of her descendants love disguises and they're all like six and a half feet tall.

01:12:37.460 Just like you are the least possible people to disguise.

01:12:40.840 They do their best.

01:12:42.260 You are the most distinctive people at all.

01:12:44.640 Yeah, it's interesting, like in terms of just who inherited what from who, but like

01:12:48.720 the fact that you're right, you're exactly right.

01:12:51.380 Like this is so much Hawking Charles II when he had to go on the run.

01:12:54.900 But then also Bonnie Prince Charlie, when he went on the run, he disguised himself as,

01:12:57.960 I believe, an Irish washerwoman when he was being rowed by Flora McDonald.

01:13:02.240 i like that that trickled down through the generations what i what is too bad trickled 0.98

01:13:08.600 down through generations is like darnley's whole bullshit which like james baby bj got 0.99

01:13:15.660 quite a lot of and some others do too anyway so she's just like she's doing it she's sleeping on 0.99

01:13:21.860 the ground she's eating oatmeal with sour milk she's just like whatever i gotta do this is what

01:13:27.660 i'm gonna do but honestly if you have all these like medical issues and you're sleeping on the

01:13:31.120 ground is not ideal anyway so they set sanctuary at dundrennan abbey which was an actual abbey

01:13:38.860 you know there's a lot of places i was confusing this with in england you know henry the eighth

01:13:42.520 turned all the abbeys into like houses but this is actually an abbey so this is like a little

01:13:46.560 abbey with no henry the eighth in scotland they were no no no where's your god now henry the eighth

01:13:53.260 so it's a literal abbey with like catholic monks in it so the country is protestant so this is

01:13:59.440 kind of like out in the middle of far away from places like sort of like secretly being monks i

01:14:04.340 guess and so she was there with her guys i'm not sure who her guys are but no one whose name i've

01:14:09.100 said before but like guys she could trust hopefully george is there young willie and she's just like

01:14:13.320 what do we do like brainstorm time so they were like maybe france because she had although like 0.97

01:14:20.220 when she married bothwell france was like fuck you goodbye you protestant but like now that she 0.89

01:14:25.860 was free from bothwell and she'd been in prison like that people are maybe more on her side so 0.99

01:14:30.060 it's like okay she could go to france she had political allies family the de guises and money

01:14:34.980 there as well from being the alger queen of france and she could maybe muster an army there to return

01:14:39.360 to scotland and reclaim her throne by force with a french army or she could go head north to meet

01:14:45.160 up with her supporters there cocker north jr the gordons the highlanders but mario was like option 0.97

01:14:51.280 three bitches england and they're like tell us more what do you mean why because she felt 0.96

01:14:58.520 elizabeth had been so supportive of her right like during her imprisonment she said throco 1.00

01:15:04.240 she also like when mary escaped elizabeth was like yay good for you and mary had through this

01:15:10.160 whole time it kind of they'd had this pen pal relationship and she always felt like no one

01:15:13.840 gets me but elizabeth would she and i like she called her sister and stuff and she was like i

01:15:18.300 I think if I go to England, Elizabeth will help me out because she said like, I want you to not

01:15:23.120 be in jail, etc. And so the others were like, but what about France or Northern Scotland? And she

01:15:28.020 like wrote later herself. She's like, no, I decided this myself. Like I commanded my best

01:15:32.180 friends to permit me to have my own way. And this is where it's like in retrospect. And this happens

01:15:37.740 not just with this, but like with marrying Darnley and marrying Bothwell, people are like,

01:15:41.020 why would Mary make these bad decisions? It's like she didn't make a bad decision on purpose.

01:15:44.840 she didn't know what was going to happen she made what seemed to her like the best decision and i

01:15:49.860 think it's let me go to the country that's right here shares a land border with the country i want

01:15:54.780 back and has a monarch who has been visibly sympathetic to me throughout this whole

01:15:59.660 scenario and who has a pretty sizable military who could conceivably help me out like yeah it's

01:16:06.000 not a bad plan a reason like how about the like elizabeth had sent thrako like she saved her life

01:16:11.780 really so anyway so she wrote a letter to elizabeth and included in this letter so

01:16:16.920 previously in their like pen pal relationship elizabeth had sent mary this like heart-shaped

01:16:22.140 diamond um as a token of friendship and mary sent that back and i like that she has how did

01:16:27.240 she have that with her did she take it with her to lock leave in i don't know how she's one of her

01:16:32.600 guys got it like because hollywood and jimmy stewart took all the diamonds right anyway or

01:16:39.040 maybe elizabeth had sent it to her while she was in jail anyway mary sent this heart-shaped diamond

01:16:42.920 which is like a cute like sailor moon adjacent thing to send to somebody a little sparkly jewel

01:16:47.480 and she sent it back to her it's like a token of like you know saying you sent this to me as a

01:16:51.700 friendship token i'm returning it like this we're friends and she signed the letter your affectionate

01:16:56.260 sister and then allison she headed off to england in men in pants disguise pants disguise she

01:17:04.800 dresses up like a man and she also 1.00

01:17:06.820 cuts off all her hair and

01:17:08.800 or shaves her head unclear

01:17:10.320 to avoid recognition. I can't

01:17:12.920 decide if I want to call that a Catalina de

01:17:14.820 Arraso move or a Mulan move,

01:17:16.660 both of them, exception. I didn't

01:17:18.980 know that until just

01:17:20.720 this research I've been doing. I'm like, she cut off

01:17:22.840 all her hair?

01:17:25.440 She's committed to this.

01:17:27.140 She knows it's like, I am six feet

01:17:28.820 tall, unrecognizable, and my

01:17:30.800 hair is long and red. Anyway, so

01:17:32.720 she's just committing to this bit. I'm just

01:17:34.660 like a man and off we go so she and her friends commandeered a small fishing boat to carry her

01:17:40.280 and 16 followers on a four-hour voyage across the soulway firth which is like from scotland to

01:17:47.400 england and so among the 16 was young willie young willie as well as george douglas like two guys who

01:17:55.440 came out of nowhere and i love that they're connected to hollywood uck and jimmy stewart

01:17:59.660 yet they take her side and i like that they're douglas's because historically in this story

01:18:03.700 a douglas has been a bad thing to hear when you hear that war cry something shitty is gonna happen

01:18:10.480 but these are like two good douglases a douglas not like that not like that yeah a douglas a

01:18:16.640 douglas willie george two good ones so they're like on this four-hour boat trip and midway across

01:18:23.640 allegedly she had a sudden change of heart and she was just like she asked the boatman like can

01:18:28.800 you switch direction like let's go to france instead but the tide was like headed in england

01:18:33.220 direction and so that's where they went also they're in a fishing boat like that's not gonna

01:18:37.440 make it all the way to france that's gonna you're going to capsize true there's so many boat moments

01:18:42.900 in this like starting with she went to france in the first place and she was the only one who didn't

01:18:48.480 get seasick and then when she was coming from france back to scotland like she witnessed this

01:18:52.200 other boat sink and all the people in it die and she's like oh that's a bad omen and so now she's

01:18:56.700 in another boat based sort of like i don't know there's a lot of boat omens in that story

01:19:02.760 bowman's and that is where she went she headed to england and that's where we're leaving the story

01:19:09.480 for this week how will she be received with no hair with no hair in her pants looking amazing

01:19:17.960 in a fishing boat so that's yeah we will pick up a story again next week but this is like so this is

01:19:24.700 a part of the story you did not know as well. Yeah, I am. I know the names of the things that

01:19:31.340 happened. Like I am familiar with the words, the casket letters, and I know that there was an

01:19:37.260 escape. But like knowing the details of it, it's really validating my picture of Mary in my head

01:19:43.700 because I'm like, no, yeah, that's exactly what she would do. That's exactly. Yes, girl, do it.

01:19:48.620 I find that. I find her escapes extremely satisfying. I love her schemes. They're my 0.85

01:19:54.320 favorite thing about her. And this is where like last weeks, or I guess two weeks ago,

01:20:00.620 the last episode, like the Mercury Scots episode, the Bothwell episode, like the fact that she

01:20:05.220 wasn't in a place where she was able to like either physically or mentally or whatever,

01:20:09.620 like get the schemes done where she's just being like taken place to place. I was just like,

01:20:13.880 this is and i think that's how some people imagine her whole story is is she's just a person who's

01:20:18.980 just a victim being dragged place to place where it's like no no her story is like jumping out of 0.99

01:20:23.360 windows climbing down a rope ladder dressed like a man landing on a horse like dressed like a

01:20:29.160 washer woman hiding in a boat god she'll try anything once and i love it yeah no trying to

01:20:35.800 jump over the wall she's like i'm six feet tall i can take this like that's her story like so much

01:20:40.680 i don't know it is the bosswell stuff i think people get bogged down on that and think just

01:20:45.060 like oh i guess either she was the whole thing but like elizabeth leads from the head and mary 0.92

01:20:49.380 leads from the heart it's like no bitches like mary is not just this like foolish person who's 1.00

01:20:55.040 like swept away by like passion or whatever she's just like making this scheme with like 1.00

01:21:00.220 unnecessary disguises involved but it's still successful like it worked can you imagine elizabeth

01:21:07.360 in a disguise escaping from a palace absolutely not i've never heard of any elizabeth the first

01:21:12.360 related disguise stories mary's which choose which one she's in disguise constantly like

01:21:18.740 so this is where yeah i find that this is sort of uh like the last time was a bummer frankly

01:21:25.200 the bothwell stuff is just like she's that is i would think in retrospect a low point

01:21:31.060 for her like when she herself is also saying like i want to kill myself now like she was not in a

01:21:37.960 good headspace she was not physically well like things were bad but this episode she just like

01:21:44.660 sits and waits and then just like bam yeah for the listener we're recording this one immediately

01:21:51.320 after the bothwell episode because we couldn't end our conversation on that one it's too much

01:21:56.820 of a bummer we have to go about our days after this so we're like can we get one win before we

01:22:00.860 stop so i just like i'm just sitting in it i'm just like so satisfied with the with the escape

01:22:07.900 plan it's so ridiculous and cinematic really and it also it doesn't bother me but i just think it's

01:22:15.000 notable that of the movies of her story like the saoirse ronan movie also basically it stops before

01:22:21.920 she gets to lock leave-in like rain was canceled before they could do this stuff like i haven't

01:22:25.700 seen the Katherine Hepburn one but that one the Katherine Hepburn movie is like her beloved

01:22:29.240 courageous lover Bothwell like I don't think no one ever puts this part in Mary Chris Scott's

01:22:34.420 movies or tv series and it's so cinematic it's so cinematic it comes on the heels of the biggest

01:22:40.520 cinematic bummer that you can imagine so it's a tough narrative to tell it it's much easier to

01:22:45.940 start way earlier way later but like yeah this is satisfying like midpoint it was so good I think

01:22:53.840 like so many of the stories are just kind of like rizzio darnley bothwell like that's the part of

01:22:58.680 the story that is often told and retold yeah but this part is no less dramatic um she's no less

01:23:06.620 capable like i just love it i love when i was reading this i couldn't wait to go through this

01:23:11.360 with you especially like now that i know that you hadn't heard a lot of details before it's just

01:23:14.880 like oh here comes young willie he's got young willie style he's got like the pearl earring he's

01:23:22.120 got like the abbot of unreason party escape like it's iconic it's just like what a treat 0.99

01:23:29.520 i also love that she's tried she tried to escape as a washer woman didn't work

01:23:33.620 she tried to climb over those didn't work she didn't she never stopped trying you know she 0.99

01:23:37.680 wasn't like i guess i won't escape like immediately back to my own whiteboard yeah her whiteboard

01:23:44.700 which is her embroidery oops she's just embroidering mary seaton falling over the wall 1.00

01:23:50.720 and she's like a note yourself that does not work or she's embroidering sort of like the floor plan

01:23:56.120 of the castle and like you'll go here and i'll go here like you know like making them that sort of

01:24:00.560 thing it's great and there is going to be there's more of a story to tell because she's going to

01:24:04.040 england and i don't know how many people listening to this have now read ahead in a biography or on

01:24:09.020 wikipedia or anything but there's a lot of people who don't know the story and they're waiting for

01:24:12.900 us to tell it so i'm excited to get to because next week we're going to get to the where the

01:24:17.720 story interrelates with your book why don't you tell everyone about your first book that was a

01:24:22.800 beautiful segue and thank you i wrote a book that is an elizabethan spy novel that the first half of

01:24:30.540 which is all about mary's time in england topic of next week's podcast uh it's called the tip for

01:24:35.480 the hangman you can read it there will be some spoilers for next week's podcast if you get through

01:24:39.200 it before we come back to tell you what happens maybe you could like buy the book hold off read

01:24:45.140 it after and then what's fresh in your mind yeah you can read to like chapter five and then i would

01:24:50.100 pause that's true yeah maybe get or get the audiobook just like listen to it a bit pause

01:24:55.300 listen to the our next episode and then go back to it yeah and then you have another book that's

01:24:59.780 coming out i do i have another book coming out in october let the dead bury the dead you can find

01:25:05.140 that my website alisonepstein.com i think by the time this episode airs i will also be able to tell

01:25:12.600 you all that i have a third book coming out in 2025 just announced in mid-june so by the time

01:25:19.580 this airs it will be real and y'all will know about it you can find more about that on my website as

01:25:24.540 well very exciting and if it's not announced we could edit that out i'm pretty confident that's

01:25:31.440 why i waited till this one and can you tell people about the pre-order thing for let the dead bury the

01:25:36.980 dead where they send you the receipts and stuff yes of course um that's on my website also it's on my

01:25:41.360 linked on all of my things. But if you pre-order Let the Dead Bury the Dead, I got some original

01:25:47.460 character art commissioned by the fantastic designer, Ari Kaiser. And I would love to send

01:25:53.580 you some as a thank you for pre-ordering. So if you just drop your receipt into the Google form

01:25:58.200 that's on my website. Lovely. And I believe I don't, are those the same pictures you have

01:26:02.620 framed on your walls? They are. I'm looking at them right now. They're over there.

01:26:06.020 Well, because I believe we were recording some nonsense when the delivery person came and dropped

01:26:11.720 those off at your house. And I believe I derailed the entire recording. I was like, guys, guys,

01:26:15.720 guys, I have to open these. These are my babies. And they were.

01:26:19.960 That's wonderful. Yeah. So you have your website. You have your books. That's how people can keep

01:26:23.880 up with you. You have your newsletter as well. I do indeed. Dirtbags through the ages. It's

01:26:27.960 rapscallison.com. It is terrible people from history delivered your inbox biweekly.

01:26:35.220 And to keep up with me and this podcast,

01:26:38.640 so we're on Instagram at vulgarhistorypod.

01:26:41.060 I don't even remember what images.

01:26:43.620 Oh, the black pearls.

01:26:45.160 Well, I'll show the picture of Elizabeth's portrait 0.56

01:26:47.360 where she's wearing Mary's stolen pearls

01:26:49.840 that Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart pawned to her.

01:26:53.540 Anyway, Instagram, we're at vulgarhistorypod

01:26:55.680 and I'm on TikTok at vulgarhistory

01:26:57.700 where again, my cat Hepburn does make audio appearances.

01:27:02.060 I think I recorded one and she wasn't there and someone was like is she okay where's Hepburn

01:27:06.260 she's like oh if she's okay as of this recording I have seen her she's still very cute

01:27:11.540 yeah no proof of life but yeah maybe I'll show a picture of Hepburn in the show notes for this

01:27:16.360 as well I don't know this honestly the Mary Kay Scott season is getting increasingly unhinged

01:27:20.220 like by the time I got to WD40 I'm glad you found that funny because I was just like I'm hilarious 0.79

01:27:24.920 but I'm like or am I losing my mind I'm not sure the tits upper grade got to hear my unhinged

01:27:30.280 genuine laugh at that one so you are appreciated at least by me yes yes um and then we have our

01:27:37.540 merch store which is vulgarhistory.com store which is better shipping stuff for the u.s

01:27:42.540 vulgarhistory.redbubble.com is better for international orders and honestly tits up brigade

01:27:47.960 like we have the where's your god now john knox merch from the marie diggies but like

01:27:52.540 out of everything we've talked about with marie queen of scots like merch concepts the brigade

01:27:56.980 is like so good with merch like they were the ones who were like you need to do where's your

01:28:00.500 god now john knox and now it's like i have to say a bestseller in my in my very strange store

01:28:06.360 new york times merch bestseller where is your god yeah so i don't know you know there's like

01:28:11.400 the darnley murder banner if there's a way to like reinterpret that to be like less gruesome

01:28:16.300 i don't know i don't like what was it the scarlet adventuress could just be that i don't know

01:28:22.020 i was picturing the hollywood icon jimmy stewart jimmy stewart but like in the like a done up like

01:28:29.120 he's in renaissance era i don't know anyway yeah so we merged store and then i have the

01:28:34.540 patreon patreon.com social and foster writers so you get early ad free access to episodes and if

01:28:40.820 you pledge at least five dollars or more you can get the spin-off podcast vulgar peace theater

01:28:44.780 where we talk about costume dramas and also so this also where we talk about gross men in history

01:28:49.000 And when I get to 500 Patreon supporters, I will do a special John Knox.

01:28:53.960 So this asshole episode, but I will not do that until and if such time I get 500 followers,

01:28:59.820 because it's a similar thing you did with your newsletter. 0.99

01:29:02.840 You didn't do the darnly until you got to 500 followers, I believe.

01:29:06.140 You got to save it up.

01:29:07.140 You got to give the people a reason to tell their friends, tell your friends.

01:29:10.240 You guys want that.

01:29:11.680 Well, and also it's like I need that strength and tits out brigade energy behind me to have

01:29:18.840 the constitutional ability to like spend that much time thinking about john nox you really have 0.98

01:29:23.780 to gird the tits for this one yeah well there's something else i was gonna say pigeon oh yeah 0.76

01:29:29.420 so because we talk about vulgar peace theater and we do various costume dramas and there's 0.92

01:29:33.300 like different things we have at this point this comes out i'm not even sure which episodes are

01:29:36.600 out but um at some point we need to do a mary queen of scots movie i don't know that might be

01:29:42.000 another live event scenario at the end of this season maybe yeah celebration maybe reading all

01:29:48.020 of these books maybe the Saoirse Ronan one I don't know I don't it's funny because I saw that I saw

01:29:53.580 like I watched Rain which ended in 2017 the Saoirse Ronan movie came out in 2018 and I was like I know

01:30:00.600 the story of Mary Queen of Scots I watched the movie I was like yes that's correct I knew that

01:30:03.780 she had a brother yes John Knox I'm familiar but now with my the amount of knowledge I now have

01:30:09.780 I feel like I'd watch and I'd be like I don't know one of the or I think we talked this will

01:30:14.660 have already come out I think so I interviewed Jennifer Marek Henderson who wrote the Gene

01:30:17.860 Gordon biography and I think I asked her at one point I'm like did you watch that movie and she

01:30:22.340 was like yes and I was like you know how the brother in that movie looks like a Viking mixed

01:30:26.500 with Outlander and she's like oh my god yes because Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart was like

01:30:31.620 the portraits of him he looks like an Elizabethan gentleman like people in Edinburgh were not

01:30:36.700 stylistically very different from people in like London like the Highlanders were doing their own

01:30:41.800 thing and so in the Saoirse Ronan movie they have Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart with his like

01:30:45.920 beard and like shaggy hair and like 12 necklaces and like eyeliner looks like a dwarf like what

01:30:52.860 what are we doing he kind of looks like like Braveheart a little bit like they're really 0.99

01:30:58.260 just being like he's from Scotland where it's like well he is from Scotland but it's like quite

01:31:03.260 a different thing to be from the highlands he's not from the woods like he lives in the house

01:31:09.500 so even like I watched the movie I was like oh that's an interesting take on him but now I'm

01:31:13.400 just like oh no now that I understand more the difference between the loans and the highlights

01:31:16.420 I feel like watching that movie might be interesting anyway I don't disagreeate if

01:31:21.120 that would be a thing you'd enjoy let me know and anyway I think next time yeah anyway we're

01:31:28.240 going to talk about Mary's time in England we might get to a scoring moment which is going to

01:31:35.280 be a real discussion we have a lot to cover in the scoring portion also knowing Anne's ability

01:31:41.080 to underestimate how many episodes story is going to take that may not be in the next one 1.00

01:31:46.100 that may not be the next one but yeah the way that she like became queen of Scots at six days

01:31:52.360 old and her story was just like unrelenting from then on like I've no one else I've ever covered

01:31:57.120 on the podcast has had so many things happen in so many years usually people like and then she

01:32:03.760 and often had children for 20 years and then she came back but she's just like boo like

01:32:07.840 unrelenting we're on what like episode seven and she's 25 yeah yeah yeah i can't believe her like

01:32:15.300 it was yeah her time in scotland was a six years of reigning actively in scotland so much happened

01:32:21.760 so much in the last like six months anyway thank you so much allison for spending so much time

01:32:27.660 talking to me about nonsense um i'll talk to you next time until then everybody keep your mat or 0.99

01:32:34.540 sorry keep your pants on and tits out and you know shave your head climb out a window whatever 0.99

01:32:40.040 follow your bliss 0.99

01:32:41.680 vulgar history is hosted written and researched by ann foster and edited by christina lumagi

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Vulgar History - July 05, 2023

Mary, Queen of Scots： Part Seven： Lochleven

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