Vulgar History - Mary, Queen of Scots： Part Six： The Mermaid and the Hare

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00:00:14.720 hello question mark hello welcome to vulgar history a feminist women's history comedy podcast

00:00:34.880 my name is ann foster and this is part six of our ongoing series within a series there's

00:00:41.680 something about Mary, Queen of Scots. And honestly, I'm not going to recap everything

00:00:46.320 that's come before, because that's, I don't even know, eight hours worth of content. And

00:00:51.860 you can hear that. But what I do want to say is I do have a guest with me today. And it is

00:00:59.900 the one, the only Alison Epstein. Hello, friends. I'm back. Excited for part six.

00:01:06.620 Yeah, you're saying this is a dip. This is a part of the story you're less familiar with.

00:01:10.180 I'm very familiar with the Darnley of it all.

00:01:13.180 And I'm very familiar with what's going to happen in about 10 years.

00:01:16.360 But this little bit right here, I'm not as familiar with.

00:01:20.240 This is a gap in my research.

00:01:21.860 So I am learning a lot of this alongside many of your listeners.

00:01:25.980 Yeah.

00:01:26.400 And this is what's funny.

00:01:28.480 Well, I'll tell you a couple.

00:01:29.280 I'll confide in you slash all the listeners.

00:01:31.660 So when I first was going to do the American of Scott season, I was like, you know what?

00:01:34.660 This will be like low key for me.

00:01:36.120 It's like, I know this story.

00:01:37.160 I've researched it before.

00:01:38.120 This will be like not time-consuming to put together.

00:01:41.480 Au contraire.

00:01:44.080 There's a lot of this story I didn't actually know.

00:01:46.600 So when we get to parts I know, I'm just like, oh, I know this like 2% of what happened here.

00:01:51.920 But there's so much I didn't know.

00:01:53.040 So I've been learning a lot.

00:01:54.100 When I was originally planning, I had planned for four episodes.

00:01:57.460 Lol.

00:01:59.780 Like I think somehow I had imagined that the deaths of Rizzio and Darnley would all be contained in one one hour episode.

00:02:06.100 we spent uh four hours i believe five going through that so yeah yeah there's there's a lot

00:02:14.440 we're really taking this step by step and really going but also just it's really a lot of what i've

00:02:18.620 been learning what i'm excited to tell people about are these little dips like parts where i

00:02:23.460 didn't exactly know what happened like when i looked at the past things i've written about this

00:02:27.340 i skimmed past these myself but in fact stuff was always happening and i'm really grateful to

00:02:34.040 the books that I've been reading

00:02:36.120 I feel confident

00:02:38.560 now you know on episode 6

00:02:40.380 there are these kind of like 3 to 4

00:02:42.640 core biographies and I'm just kind of going through

00:02:44.540 them piece by piece to like get each

00:02:46.680 chunk of the story otherwise it's overwhelming

00:02:48.460 but I feel confident

00:02:50.700 enough in my understanding of the story that

00:02:52.560 when I read something and that

00:02:54.120 describes it in a certain way I'm like that's not how

00:02:56.520 I take that I feel like I've got some

00:02:58.320 hot takes but they're backed

00:03:00.520 up with facts

00:03:02.420 I don't know

00:03:04.040 Because there's going to be some parts, especially in this episode, where takes vary on why some people did the things they did.

00:03:13.160 And I'll give you, I'll mention kind of what the various theories are, and then I'll tell you which one I think.

00:03:20.220 And you can tell everyone which one you think after I tell you all the theories.

00:03:23.480 So I'll tell you all my sources.

00:03:26.100 It's a lot of similar ones, but there's one new one I haven't mentioned before.

00:03:28.780 so I've referred to as ever

00:03:31.560 Daughters of the North, Jean Gordon

00:03:33.220 and Mary Queen of Scots by Jennifer Morag Henderson

00:03:35.560 Embroidering Her Truth

00:03:37.360 Mary Queen of Scots in the Language of Power by Claire Hunter

00:03:39.780 Homecoming, The Scottish Years of Mary Queen of Scots

00:03:42.080 by Rosemary Goring

00:03:43.040 This is the new one I haven't used as a source before

00:03:45.940 Mary Queen of Scots Secretary

00:03:47.880 William Maitland

00:03:49.440 Politician, Reformer, and Conspirator

00:03:51.780 by Robert Stiddell

00:03:53.420 and William Maitland is

00:03:55.400 Scottish Machiavelli, aka

00:03:58.360 Mary Queen of Scots, The True Life of Mary Stewart by John Guy.

00:04:00.740 And Mary Was Here, Where Mary Queen of Scots Went and What She Did There by Historic Scotland.

00:04:06.120 I just have a little, I have a short previously on, just because for you and me, because we

00:04:13.100 last recorded a week ago and you know what the listeners last heard this week ago as

00:04:16.720 well, presumably. 0.97

00:04:17.760 believe so um previously on so firstly um a group of kind of most of the asshole scottish lords 0.92

00:04:27.120 came together with like two to three exceptions to sign a piece of paper saying like we're gonna 0.91

00:04:32.200 kill davy rizzio and then they did but in the most convoluted badly planned way and then

00:04:39.260 they did kill him, R.I.P. Davy Rizzio, but Mary got power back from them. But then basically those

00:04:48.180 same guys came together. They signed another document being like, we're going to all kill 0.95

00:04:52.520 Darnley now. And then they did. And again, it was weirdly complicated and he did die, but it was a 0.92

00:04:59.640 bad plan. So what happened is that Darnley died. Mary was like, oh my God, like, can we investigate

00:05:07.440 this, who did this. But unfortunately, the one person she was trusting, who was also the sheriff

00:05:12.520 of Edinburgh, was Bothwell, who was part of this conspiracy. The rest of the conspiracy was effectively

00:05:20.260 the police department. So their investigation was not going well. And she was like, why is this

00:05:26.640 investigation not going well? Why are you not finding who did this? And they're like, it's hard

00:05:30.680 to say. Too soon to tell. There was posters, Allison. I think the posters were a big highlight

00:05:36.760 for you last time and asked me where we left off. And I said, we left off with the tits out 0.98

00:05:40.560 Starbucks mermaid and the rabbit in the circle of swords. That was our last topic.

00:05:44.120 Yeah. Yeah. So there was there were anti there were posters went up that were saying really,

00:05:48.880 really, really subtle things like a picture of Bothwell's face and the words here is the

00:05:54.640 murderer of Darnley. This man murdered Darnley. So he was really like in terms of posters,

00:06:00.400 he was really being thrown under the bus. And it was like every night posters went up

00:06:04.460 and then they'd rip them all down and the next night more posters there's also maybe a ghost 0.96

00:06:09.000 or maybe a person dressed like a ghost wandering around being like boss well killed darnley

00:06:13.960 another highlight of yours truly i don't remember was it supposed to be the ghost of darnley or just

00:06:21.300 and a miscellaneous ghost who knew things i think just a miscellaneous ghost who knew things but it

00:06:28.220 could have been the ghost of it's not it's just like i'm a ghost and i know facts yeah it does

00:06:34.400 a freelance ghost with some facts to share oh yeah because remember there was the two women 0.58

00:06:39.220 missus whoever and missus whoever and they were like they're just silly women where it's like no

00:06:44.340 we like saw these people do these things and they're like women we saw this man run away from

00:06:49.160 the castle covered in gunpowder that can't be relevant to this case doesn't sound true at all

00:06:54.860 yeah so i think you had a theory that maybe it was one of them dressed up like a ghost being like

00:06:58.840 actually i'm not a woman you listen to me now i'm not a woman i'm a ghost uh yes that sounds

00:07:06.280 and everyone paid more attention to the ghost apparently than the women anyway so i have a

00:07:11.940 couple updates so since i don't know it's like we're recording this the episodes come out it's

00:07:17.360 not simultaneous but anyway since the last episode i posted i got a really interesting

00:07:22.340 message from tits out brigade member chloe christina who is in scotland and had information

00:07:27.440 about a Mary Queen of Scots connection to where she lives. I will just say that one of Mary's

00:07:32.040 greatest legacies is to perhaps the contemporary Scottish tourism industry because she spent at

00:07:38.760 least one night sleeping in seems like every castle in that country. So every castle can be

00:07:44.480 like Mary Queen of Scots once slept here because like she spent she spent every summer like going

00:07:50.140 on progress like traveling around visiting her like constituents. But then also she was you know

00:07:55.260 variously being almost kidnapped having to go on the run and so she stayed in various castles for

00:08:00.480 those reasons as well so this where claire christina lives is um she lives near cumber

00:08:06.740 cumbernauld castle so mary visited this place in january 1562 so that was just a few months after

00:08:13.740 she arrived and she arrived in scotland like that previous summer so like january that was like her

00:08:17.720 first progress around scotland i guess anyway so here's why that's notable so while she was staying

00:08:23.320 there she and all of her entourage mostly went out hunting which was one of her great things

00:08:27.580 she's horseback riding ship hunting while they were away the whole great hall of this castle

00:08:32.840 collapsed there was an architecture failure um and seven to eight men were killed mary herself

00:08:42.260 was not hurt because she was off hunting at the time but just in terms of just like what

00:08:46.300 how many crises can one life i bet you at that point she's just like another castle

00:08:51.920 has imploded and or exploded while I was supposed to be inside it what is happening yeah so she

00:08:58.700 here's where she's just like I want to say like she's genuinely kind to people and she also knows

00:09:06.500 that this is helpful to her in a very smart way so she herself was not hurt but she went to visit

00:09:12.040 she paid condolences to the relatives of those who were injured or killed in the village below

00:09:15.940 like big like princess diana type vibes of like yes this is good for your reputation and also not

00:09:23.020 everyone would do this and it makes people like her right like one of her superpowers is that the 0.98

00:09:28.340 people the like everyday people of scotland were like oh we like her anyway so she went to pay

00:09:32.040 respects to them and then she also planted a yew tree y-e-w at a nearby castle that's called

00:09:38.020 charmingly castle carry castle that's adorable when i saw that i was like oh i must have that

00:09:43.920 must be a typo. I must type that wrong. No, it's called Castle Cary Castle. Anyway, and that tree

00:09:48.480 still grows there. So that's if you keep track, the second tree that we know of that she allegedly 0.98

00:09:52.560 planted that's still growing. So and I like, you know, if whenever I'm able to get to Scotland and

00:09:58.580 just pay tribute to when I go there for the five years it would take to visit every castle she also

00:10:04.220 visited, like I'd like to visit these trees because that's like a tangible thing. Like she

00:10:07.780 planted it and it's still there. Another update is from this is when I sought out actually. So do

00:10:13.580 you remember, Allison, in one of the previous episodes, Mary had that horrific health incident

00:10:19.020 where she went into a coma and it seemed like she was going to die. And then the doctor wrapped her

00:10:24.900 up like a mummy, massaged her limbs, forced wine down her throat and gave her an animal.

00:10:29.720 I remember that part. Yeah. 0.66

00:10:31.320 And for some reason that helped her. So I asked my friend Dagmar, who is a physician, I'm like,

00:10:37.420 tell me about gastric ulcers. And why do you think this helped? Here's her symptoms. And here's what

00:10:43.300 the doctor did. And so she's like, yeah, no, for sure. That sounds like a gastric ulcer. That's

00:10:46.880 what the symptoms are. The treatment nowadays involves a surgical procedure, you know, IV

00:10:52.120 fluids, medications to help the ulcer heal. So I asked her like, so the doctor did this, this,

00:10:58.120 and this, like, why do you think that helped? And she said, well, the funneled wine wouldn't

00:11:00.720 have been great for the ulcer because alcohol would interfere with healing, but it's probably

00:11:04.880 the better way to give her fluids as the drinking water may have been unclean. You know what? Fair.

00:11:09.880 how many people died of dysentery because the water was yeah i think people in this era in

00:11:14.480 london like they drank weak beer and wine instead of water because the water was consistently so bad

00:11:21.140 so that i'm just supposed to yes i think the one it was more just like here's some fluids the food 0.97

00:11:25.420 i have to give you is wine the wrapping the massage may have helped her feel better but

00:11:29.380 wouldn't have helped the ulcer the enema may have also helped because she could absorb more fluid 1.00

00:11:33.880 through her colon so she might she would have needed fluids to replace all the shoes because 1.00

00:11:37.620 she was like vom i forget what it said it's like she vomited blood 50 times in a row or something 0.97

00:11:41.320 so she needed fluids to replace all that she was vomiting and bleeding to help keep her volume up

00:11:45.540 and the blood pressure okay so it was likely time and her own body that took care of the majority

00:11:49.900 of her recovery so basically this doctor gave her fluids is what he which you know what not every

00:11:55.320 doctor would have so he didn't um actively lead her with leeches so like i was gonna say yeah

00:12:00.700 he didn't remove fluids and then i asked what because mary as we're going further into the

00:12:07.300 story like she had this situation very recently to this story i don't have a timeline in front of

00:12:11.680 me but it was kind of like she married darnley she had this near-death experience with a gastric

00:12:18.160 ulcer darnley was murdered like these things happened over the course of like less than a

00:12:22.380 year she had no it's like wait she had a baby she had the gastric ulcer darnley was murdered

00:12:29.280 like this is like rizzio was murdered while she was pregnant so like yes rizzio started yeah

00:12:35.100 exactly. And she already had like chronic illnesses she was dealing with. And from now on, 1.00

00:12:39.820 like she has various other symptoms. So I asked Dagmar what other effects she might have had from

00:12:43.820 this gastric ulcer experience. So Dagmar says she could have developed an abscess, a collection of

00:12:48.780 fluid or pus. And after the infection died down, that could cause chronic pain, which it did,

00:12:53.920 or bands of tissue in her abdomen called adhesions could stick to her bowel and abdominal wall and 0.97

00:12:58.140 cause bowel obstruction and chronic abdominal pain. And she is like from now on in the story,

00:13:03.260 like she will at times be like have horrible pain in her side like she always say like it's in my

00:13:08.720 side so since the ulcers wouldn't have been treated she could also have chronic pain from

00:13:12.900 recurring gastric ulcers so yeah i just wanted to get i was happy to get that medical information

00:13:18.240 because some of the sources are like oh this woman always complaining it's like yeah my friend 1.00

00:13:27.160 she has serious ongoing medical disastrous things happening to her like and also like in terms of 0.84

00:13:33.900 having like the baby like it was a traumatic birth it was not an easy birth like she's still

00:13:38.920 she's not even a year out from that and that very much has not changed since the 1560s that

00:13:45.080 women in pain are still not believed in the medical institution yeah yeah of course she's

00:13:50.060 in pain she's not just saying this to be a whiner no like and of course this will affect her mood 1.00

00:13:56.260 This will affect her, how much she sleeps, which like this affects her decision-making

00:14:00.420 process. 0.97

00:14:00.900 So all these things that people like, oh, Mary, she's so flighty.

00:14:03.280 Like these are what some people say about her. 0.96

00:14:05.120 It's like the fact that she gets out of bed every morning is impressive.

00:14:08.560 The fact that she did as well as she did being in this much pain.

00:14:10.780 And then you look at what happened to Henry VIII after he got an ulcer.

00:14:13.600 Like, come on.

00:14:14.460 Yeah, I know.

00:14:15.540 Anyway, so this is what's happening with her physiologically.

00:14:18.780 So that all happened about six to seven months before what we're talking about today.

00:14:22.360 Like that was when she had the gastric ulcer situation.

00:14:24.620 So she also has, as we've discussed, probably porphyria or something like that, which gets triggered when she by various when she's upset, like when her best friend is murdered. 0.63

00:14:34.540 When her castle explodes, when she's right next to it, etc.

00:14:37.680 Yeah. And then she also she has people write down.

00:14:42.340 She did this. She did, which is really interesting, actually useful, because people would just be like, here's the symptoms we're seeing.

00:14:47.180 They didn't know what it was. But now it can be like, OK, when she's stressed out, she has trouble eating.

00:14:51.000 And when she doesn't eat enough, then her porphyria triggers. 0.99

00:14:53.640 And then that causes gastrointestinal problems.

00:14:56.020 Like we see the sequence event play out over and over and over.

00:14:59.120 And porphyria is also the thing that potentially George had from, who is he?

00:15:02.900 George III from Queen Charlotte.

00:15:05.460 So he, Queen Charlotte, the Netflix series, and also history, which also causes some mental

00:15:11.940 illness things because it like affects your brain.

00:15:15.220 And so this is the sequence.

00:15:16.620 It's like Mary doesn't, something happens.

00:15:19.180 Mary doesn't eat well.

00:15:20.260 Her porphyria is triggered and that includes her having sort of, I don't know, she just starts being incredibly depressed to the point of like suicidal ideation.

00:15:29.980 Like it showed up in George more as like a mania sort of thing.

00:15:33.500 But for her, it's kind of really, really deep depression.

00:15:38.140 Exactly, exactly.

00:15:39.200 And I would presume by this point, she also is living with PTSD from having seen her friend murdered in front of her, being betrayed by everyone she knows.

00:15:47.220 You think she probably had PTSD from being kidnapped so many times?

00:15:50.260 is a baby like a lot honestly ages ages zero to five she's constantly on the run the whole

00:15:56.400 steward dynasty has ptsd from all of the baby kidnapping yeah honestly yeah that's why there's

00:16:01.460 this whole family in this story who's the hamiltons which is like there's rn junior and

00:16:05.800 senior but like so the hamiltons are like the ultimate children of one of the king jameses

00:16:10.560 at some point but that's the family because there's like six baby kings in a row and the

00:16:14.140 hamiltons were always the regent for those baby kings like there were so many there's so much

00:16:19.020 fucked up stuff happening so many people being killed and kidnapped that there's an official 0.88

00:16:22.760 family in charge of being the region and has been for like six generations just for the next time 0.88

00:16:28.260 the the baby king gets kidnapped you guys are gonna be in charge of that well and bear in mind

00:16:32.200 they're on the scene as well here still in the story anyway so that's where that's where she is

00:16:36.740 at we're gonna be talking about what happens and what she does but she's just i'm gonna say like

00:16:41.980 mentally checked out for a lot of this for reasons i just explained she's not at her usual like level

00:16:48.540 like 15 out of 10 scheminess. She's just like in a fugue state of shock slash medical crises

00:16:56.260 at the moment. So all this stuff happened. Her husband was killed. She still understandably

00:17:03.800 assumes that that assassination attempt wanted to kill her, but only failed because she went

00:17:08.840 up to her friend's wedding, which we know now is not true, but she didn't know then.

00:17:13.260 So she's just like, everyone around me is betraying me and just tried to murder me. 0.99

00:17:16.500 so she's just like not able to be in charge of the country and do her queen shit at the moment 0.98

00:17:22.720 because of everything i just described but somebody needs to be in charge and so the one 0.91

00:17:27.360 person the one person she's like i can trust in this world is bothwell because she saved herself

00:17:33.260 but then he helped out when during the davy rizzio situation remember he was one of the people who

00:17:38.740 helped like lead the army so she's just like okay so she believes that the darnley murder was

00:17:44.480 actually someone wanted to kill him and also her. And people are like, oh, we think Bothwell did it.

00:17:48.740 She's like, no, because Bothwell would never kill me. He's so loyal to me. It was a murder just of

00:17:53.100 Darnley and Bothwell was heavily involved. Anyway, but that's who's, she's kind of leaving in charge

00:17:59.100 right now because she can't, she just needs a holiday, some time off. Yeah. She just needs to 1.00

00:18:06.640 get away from it all. I also wanted to bring up, we've mentioned him before, but in my subsequent

00:18:12.980 been reading I really learned a bit more about so William Cecil Allison he is kind of he's running

00:18:21.680 the show but what's his actual job can you remind me I want to say at least later I'm not sure if

00:18:27.680 he is right now but at least later he is the royal treasurer so he's in charge of the money

00:18:33.640 for a look he may be serving as secretary of state also at this point my timeline is a little

00:18:39.680 shaky on privy council elections of the late 1560s, but he's very, very high up in her privy

00:18:48.480 council. Yeah, for Elizabeth. So yeah, here's what I want to say. If you're listening to this

00:18:53.420 episode, episode six of this mini series, then by now I assume you're okay with the fact that

00:19:00.220 there's a lot of men in the stories and I don't care enough. I can't bring myself to learn any

00:19:07.660 more about them than I did the bare minimum. So I don't know what his job is, but I know that he's

00:19:12.620 basically writing things in England. Elizabeth may or may not know that he is, but he is.

00:19:16.900 So he is the mastermind of everything. I read this. This was in the biography of Mary Queen

00:19:22.360 of Scots, the secretary, the biography of Scottish Machiavelli is where a book I just

00:19:26.520 picked up to learn more about him. And he mentioned some facts that I hadn't seen in any of their

00:19:31.040 books, which is so William Cecil kept amazing records, like all these things. Last time we

00:19:35.120 you're talking about it's like william sisal had a copy of this like let's all kill darnley like he 0.73

00:19:38.760 had that contract it's like let's all kill rizzio he had that contract he had the drawing the famous

00:19:43.240 drawing we went into in great detail last time of darnley's murder like i don't i just picture

00:19:49.420 oldie time filing cabinets of some sort so he had receipts of everything and he also kept kind of

00:19:56.240 his own memo to myself like he's got all those so two years before mary even arrived in scotland

00:20:02.600 like I think before Frances even died she was like in France being a teenager thinking that's

00:20:07.920 what her life was going to be Cecil was just like memo to myself like to-do list and on it he

00:20:12.920 basically said destabilize things in Scotland so that Mary resigns so I can put a puppet in place

00:20:19.360 and then England can take over Scotland to do note that down yeah and basically everything he did

00:20:26.520 from that point on was with that aim like people kept betraying Mary but she kept fighting

00:20:32.440 back like doing amazing like she there was the chase about raids against her brother and then 0.89

00:20:37.400 when the assholes rose up against her against the Davy Rizzio murder like she kept winning and 0.69

00:20:41.020 Cecil is just like well that's annoying to me Cecil but big picture what he wanted was just 0.99

00:20:46.920 to like destabilize things in Scotland just make it such a chaos nightmare that she would eventually

00:20:52.840 step down like she would abdicate stop being queen so he could put someone there who he could control

00:20:56.880 to that aim so he's been working like and everyone's constantly changing teams right

00:21:01.880 we've been through that a million times already like with Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart it's like

00:21:05.080 now he's helping Mary now she's fighting him like now he's on her side again like or even like

00:21:09.160 Scottish Machiavelli is just like what side is who on so Cecil is just kind of like on and off

00:21:14.060 supporting various people he's working with you will recall um counselor Jeremy Jam from Parks

00:21:20.260 and Recreation is here Scottish Machiavelli is there like Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart is

00:21:26.100 pretty consistently working with Cecil because he Hollywood icon Jimmy Stewart wants to be he

00:21:31.100 wants to become the region he wants to take over and Cecil is cool with him doing that because 0.92

00:21:35.160 he's a protestant and a man and a himbo who Cecil can control and I did double check he uh Cecil is 0.99

00:21:41.260 secretary of state at this point so he's in charge of foreign relations which is why he's very much 1.00

00:21:45.900 like I'm gonna manage Scotland he becomes treasurer in like five years and when you're

00:21:50.200 in charge of money you're also still very in charge of foreign relations like he keeps

00:21:53.780 messing with things but this is technically like in his job description at this point

00:21:58.320 yeah doing the foreign relations yes for sure so like scotland being a major foreign relation he

00:22:03.580 wants to he just yeah he's just like slowly waiting for scotland to just like rip itself

00:22:07.700 apart which it's doing and which it feels like it maybe would have been doing without his help but

00:22:12.540 he the stuff he did actively made that happen faster for instance you remember the douglas's

00:22:18.460 do you remember their war cry a douglas a douglas yes yes yeah i know every time i write the douglas

00:22:25.520 this in my notes i'm like the douglas is a douglas a douglas i have a friend who is in glasgow and i

00:22:30.760 was like do you know anyone with the last name douglas because i believe they live around glasgow

00:22:34.920 and she's like oh yeah no there's a few people who know their last name and i'm like and do they

00:22:38.100 ever say a douglas you know in the in a university classroom apparently not a shame i just think of

00:22:45.260 the guy i used to work with whose name was doug and i would just see him and i want to see him

00:22:48.780 in the hall and be like a douglas a douglas i don't think he'd think that was funny but if a

00:22:53.140 Titswood Brigade member was around.

00:22:54.600 I get one laugh. 1.00

00:22:56.760 So the Douglases were instrumental in the murder of Darnley. 1.00

00:23:00.840 Because remember when Darnley was murdered, 0.99

00:23:02.160 one of those two women who nobody believed heard Darnley say,

00:23:04.720 my kinsmen, why are you doing this?

00:23:06.700 Darnley basically was like, a Douglas, a Douglas, like pointing at them.

00:23:10.260 So the Douglases had been involved in the Davy Rizzio murder. 0.77

00:23:14.400 So Mary understandably exiled them, kicked them out of Scotland. 0.98

00:23:18.680 But then Cecil got his goons to get in her ear and manipulate her

00:23:22.020 into bringing them back and the douglases were so mad at darnley for betraying them that that's

00:23:26.480 why darnley's house was exploded basically so that was cecil like he knew that if he brought

00:23:30.720 he got the douglases back in scotland something would happen and it did so it's not like cecil

00:23:36.340 didn't sign the document being like we're going to kill darnley but he like led to that happening by

00:23:40.260 manipulating mary into letting the douglases back let's get some some little mischievous 1.00

00:23:45.660 traitors into this country and see what kind of mischief they can start let's just see what they 1.00

00:23:49.520 because he just wants things to be destabilized he just wants things to be cast which they are

00:23:53.560 and i i love him and his approach because he's not doing a single thing himself he's just like

00:23:58.720 let's let them do this to themselves i will watch i will kind of like twiddle the knobs here to make

00:24:04.240 sure everything is calibrated but then you guys just go have have fun destabilizing your own

00:24:08.360 country it's very devious here's what's funny so william sessel as i picture him is in the

00:24:16.380 Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movie. He's played by

00:24:18.400 Sir Richard Attenborough, the like old

00:24:20.400 Santa Claus looking man from the Miracle on

00:24:22.280 34th Street remake. But also

00:24:24.240 he plays the guy who invented Jurassic Park in the first

00:24:26.380 Jurassic Park movie. I was going to say, that's the Jurassic Park man, Anne.

00:24:29.940 No, I know.

00:24:30.880 Well, I was just explaining why I become the little

00:24:32.260 Santa Claus looking guy. But yeah, no, he's from Jurassic

00:24:34.340 Park. So at first I was like, man, I can't believe that's just so

00:24:36.360 evil because he's played by Sir Richard Attenborough

00:24:38.160 from Jurassic Park. And I thought, no, that's just

00:24:40.340 what his character did in Jurassic Park.

00:24:42.320 He invented Jurassic Park.

00:24:44.040 He's to blame for Jurassic Park. 0.99

00:24:46.380 The whole reason why that all happened was because he set this thing up and then the dinosaurs did dinosaur shit. 0.98

00:24:52.760 So it's actually sort of a consistent... 0.90

00:24:55.520 So anyway, it does work if you picture him, the Jurassic Park guy, just being like, let's just like put some velociraptors over there.

00:25:01.860 I mean, like, I don't know what's going to happen, but maybe they're going to kill some people.

00:25:05.380 Anyway, so William Cecil has just been hard at work at this point for something like six to seven years,

00:25:10.360 trying to make Scotland such a disaster that Mary is forced out of it. 0.96

00:25:14.500 but she is too good at this shit and she keeps winning and as we discussed last time one of her 0.99

00:25:21.060 the reasons why she is so successful is that the people of scotland love her like because they see 1.00

00:25:26.500 she's cool she's tall she has outfits um she has this bright red hair she crimps her hair is crimped

00:25:32.620 all the time by one of her marys and she goes around the country every summer like she's always

00:25:38.460 going around meeting people in a genuine way so they're like oh that's our queen we support her

00:25:42.180 she like took the trouble to meet us great like that's what politicians still do today right they

00:25:45.840 go around like door knocking or whatever so one of the reasons why she keeps winning is the people

00:25:50.820 of scotland always have her back so william sesal is like okay so how can i make the people of

00:25:54.980 scotland hate her because if she didn't have them what does she have so he's like what we're gonna

00:26:02.260 do is what if we make it seem like she was responsible for darnley's murder and there i'm

00:26:07.640 just picturing him monologuing you know in some sort of tower room with some person being like

00:26:13.160 but but what will we do williams that's what he's like like i think i'm picturing maleficent

00:26:17.580 beauty just like hmm so he's like i need to make it seem like mary was responsible for darnley's

00:26:25.480 murder and how do we do that it's like well what if we make it seem like it's a crime of passion

00:26:30.400 like that's her husband kind of everyone knows she hated him so what if we pretend like she was

00:26:34.880 having an affair with someone and then that person and then they killed Darnley so she could be with 0.95

00:26:41.080 this new guy. And then it's like, well, she's spending this time with Bothwell. She keeps not

00:26:46.080 turning on Bothwell. So what if we pretend like she was in love with Bothwell? The two of them

00:26:50.520 were together to kill Darnley so that they could get married. And I do have to say that is a

00:26:56.460 compelling story because in my heart, I want to believe it. I know the facts do not necessarily

00:27:03.260 support that mary was in on the murder of darnley but like god i wish she was i wish she looked at 0.61

00:27:09.920 this man and was like absolutely not we have to blow up his house because i just cannot deal with 0.52

00:27:14.060 him anymore and like drops to cecil for being like this is the story that's going to make people

00:27:19.620 for hundreds of years be on my side for this like it's master controlling the narrative it's great

00:27:25.200 no exactly and he started it he started this narrative at this time like right after darnley's

00:27:31.280 murder and this is part of why presumably like we still don't know who made the posters but like

00:27:36.960 whoever commissioned the posters knew that Cecil's plan because the posters were like Mary and

00:27:41.960 Bothwell are having an affair Bothwell killed Darnley like these were like connecting the dots

00:27:46.040 for like so people would start getting this in their head that that was what had happened I have

00:27:49.500 a conspiracy theory for you has anyone ever compared the drawing style on the posters to

00:27:55.540 the drawing style of Cecil's guy doing that portrait of Darnley dying in the garden do you

00:28:01.580 think maybe it was the same artist do you think we could tell I don't know but what I do know is

00:28:07.260 that when I was looking over stuff I was like who did that drawing and no one knows who did the

00:28:11.100 drawing no one knows who did that that big graphic novel type one image of Darnley's so it's it's a

00:28:16.900 very famous image but actually the name of the artist is unknown name of the mermaid poster

00:28:21.500 artist also so how many freelance artists are running around with the skill to like

00:28:26.240 draw tits out mermaid holding a sea anemone over a hair in a circle of daggers i don't know who's

00:28:34.260 to say yeah i think you could compare because the mermaid poster did have letters it had her 0.93

00:28:38.040 initials and bothwell's initials and then the other poster has little baby prince james being

00:28:42.380 like oh avenge me oh lord um so there is writing on both so you could do a handwriting i'll call

00:28:48.760 up the Fulgur Shakespeare Library and see if

00:28:50.720 they'll do some research for me. Yeah, for sure. I'll see if

00:28:52.700 I can get a grant to go there and do that myself.

00:28:55.280 Anyway, so this is what he's doing. He wants

00:28:56.700 people to turn against Mary.

00:28:58.760 So he's spreading these rumors being like, Mary's in love with

00:29:00.520 Bothwell. It was a crime of passion.

00:29:02.560 This is who killed Durnley. But

00:29:04.520 the people of Scotland, they turned against

00:29:06.460 Bothwell, but not against Mary

00:29:08.780 because they just, she's the

00:29:10.580 queen and they love her. So he's

00:29:12.580 like, okay, how can I make

00:29:14.580 these people

00:29:16.700 hate Mary? It's like, okay, like

00:29:18.760 they believe, like, they hate Bothwell,

00:29:20.520 but they're just not buying into this whole thing

00:29:22.080 that she was involved in the murder,

00:29:23.460 that she's in love with Bothwell.

00:29:24.400 I'm just imagining Cecil standing

00:29:25.820 in front of a big old tiny whiteboard. 0.92

00:29:27.840 She's got, like, ways to make Scotland hate Mary,

00:29:30.320 and the list is, like, kills Darnley, 1.00

00:29:32.840 kicks puppies, spends all of the money, 1.00

00:29:36.660 like, puts ketchup on her hot dogs.

00:29:38.820 Like, I can't imagine what he's going through.

00:29:41.720 I don't know.

00:29:43.040 Get her to somehow, like,

00:29:44.220 intimate that Haggis is not delicious. 0.93

00:29:46.780 like have her like I don't know throw a bagpipes out a window wear a brown suit to the airport

00:29:53.200 I don't know there's lots of lots of options so what what he lands on from that whiteboard list 0.64

00:29:58.780 is we need to make her marry Bothwell because that will just ruin her reputation well firstly

00:30:06.780 because Darnley died two minutes ago and you're supposed to be in mourning for 40 days in a dark

00:30:11.220 groom, let alone not get married right away. But also if that would just really definitively

00:30:16.960 cement his narrative that like she was in love with Bothwell, they worked together to

00:30:20.500 kill Darnley. And the proof of it is, look, now they're married to each other.

00:30:24.820 So that's, I don't, I don't think we're going to mention Cecil again in this episode,

00:30:29.080 but just know that everything that happens is because of his, him and his whiteboard

00:30:33.460 coming up with that plan. So several things stood in the way of Cecil's scheme to make

00:30:38.720 marry get married to bothwell like the fact that bothwell was already married to someone else 1.00

00:30:44.140 remember a few episodes ago mary um queen of matchmaking she match made bothwell to like 0.87

00:30:51.280 she personally decided who he would marry she married bothwell to a woman named jean gordon

00:30:56.120 jean gordon is the daughter of caco the north george gordon was bothwell not already also

00:31:02.080 married before he was married to jane gordon oh yes but we're just going one wife he's already

00:31:07.860 double married so there's there's levels of marriages so legally recognized in scotland is

00:31:15.500 is that this is one of the marriages but so mary had married bathwell to gene gordon

00:31:20.020 and that when she did that and this is described um jennifer moray kanderson in her book about

00:31:25.520 gene gordon she explains how that was like a really politically savvy thing mary did because

00:31:30.360 when she did that was at a point where mary really needed to solidify who was supporting her and the

00:31:34.840 two like big families big scottish groups supporting her were like the gordons like

00:31:39.640 caco the north's family in the highlands and then bothwell's family the hepburns in the border area

00:31:44.600 so by marrying these two together she like made literal that alliance of people who would support

00:31:50.240 her so it was a very politically savvy thing to do because she loves a wedding and she loves a

00:31:55.940 politically savvy wedding like even the bad ones on paper they all yeah no and this made total

00:32:01.760 sense like the timing of it it's just it made all the sense in the world but so so in terms of like

00:32:07.420 let's get Bothwell to marry Mary it's like well he's like married to Jean Gordon a marriage Mary

00:32:11.900 Queen of Scots herself arranged so it's like was she secretly in love with him why would she do

00:32:16.020 that then she attended the wedding she like provided the wedding dress oh which actually I

00:32:21.660 just got I think I said in the episode where I talked about that wedding the Jean Gordon Bothwell

00:32:26.120 wedding that Mary gave a silver dress to Jean Gordon and it's literally a silver dress it's a

00:32:30.620 dress that was woven through with like actual silver fibers which is quite a thing so but even

00:32:36.920 if both hadn't been married to jean gordon he was also married to someone else already which was a

00:32:41.420 norwegian woman in denmark which is why i get confused about where she's from so the woman is

00:32:46.820 named anna tronson which is i'm saying it anna because i imagine it's like anna and elsa from

00:32:53.920 frozen because that's my main understanding of scandinavian historical culture and she's aka

00:32:59.640 a Skotafruin, which means the Scottish lady in, I believe, either Danish or Norwegian,

00:33:07.260 I forget, Anna Tronson, citizen of the world. So people call her Skotafruin. And I asked a

00:33:13.120 Titsa Brigade member who is, oh, I forget if she was in Denmark or her boyfriend's from Denmark.

00:33:17.380 I was just like, red alert, is anyone in Denmark? And then she's like, hey, what's up? I was like,

00:33:22.160 do people in Denmark know about Anna Tronson, aka Skotafruin? And she was like, no.

00:33:26.740 thanks for the confirmation appreciate that but maybe people in scotland call her that anyway so

00:33:32.600 she's anna tronson so here's her deal she was the daughter of i think an admiral or something like 0.84

00:33:38.360 she wasn't just like some peasant rando like she had like connections and stuff she also is always 1.00

00:33:43.400 described as like spanish looking which basically means she had dark hair a real lola montez kind 0.54

00:33:48.880 of lady exactly exactly but she was danish and or norwegian no so her family is very powerful

00:33:55.820 in Norway. But she was in Denmark because I think her father was like there for like

00:34:00.600 Navy business. And Bothwell was in Denmark. They met in Denmark. He's from Scotland. She's from

00:34:05.360 Norway. And they got together. They were married, but it was in what's called hand fasting,

00:34:11.400 which is just kind of like... You do it yourselves, basically. You're like,

00:34:15.060 I promised to marry you. You promised to marry me. There's not necessarily a priest present, 0.61

00:34:19.120 but because you both believe in your hearts that you're married, it counts as marriage.

00:34:22.700 Exactly.

00:34:23.240 And so this is legally binding in Denmark and Norway, but not in Scotland.

00:34:29.120 I'm going to guess it's legally binding in Protestant countries more than it is in Catholic

00:34:33.040 countries who need priests to, like, moderate things more heavily, but don't quote me on that. 0.74

00:34:38.860 Yeah, so it's, exactly.

00:34:40.840 And Bothwell is, this is very actually important, he is Protestant.

00:34:45.380 So he went to Denmark, like, hand-fasted with Anna Tronson, the Scottefruin.

00:34:49.980 she had a baby um and he abandoned her he like went back to scotland she followed him back to

00:34:57.020 scotland i really like her i've never heard of her before but anna seems dope good for her just

00:35:02.900 just wait no spoilers um for the end of this episode and what anna does because we're going

00:35:09.540 to follow up with anna anyway so she followed him to scotland to be like hey remember me i'm your

00:35:13.040 wife um and he's like this is your child this is your child um and he's like so he set up to like

00:35:20.760 live in a house with his mom like up like well not up sorry down i guess in the borders is where his

00:35:26.160 family is um so she was like living with his mom and the child but he's just like that's my like

00:35:31.060 mistress my like ex-mistress like it's not a wife don't worry about it like i can totally marry

00:35:35.600 gene gordon for political reasons but so she was writing him letters being like please come back

00:35:40.860 to me like from the mother's house like she was writing him love letters basically being like

00:35:46.800 please come back to me etc probably also money letters like please come back support your child

00:35:52.220 that would be helpful for me yeah so anyway okay but the third level of like bothwell's 0.96

00:35:59.120 wives is third so even if he hand fested to anna like and hadn't also been like literally married

00:36:07.640 to gene gordon he had previously been promised to a scottish noblewoman named janet beaton and so

00:36:14.040 we've seen from like henry the eighth and stuff like sometimes even like having a previous promise

00:36:17.720 can mean your later marriage is invalid like that whole thing so he had been promised to this woman

00:36:22.900 named janet beaton and he was actively still lovers with her had he just been married to 0.99

00:36:27.480 gene gordon for less than a year yes he is a fuck boy is his way i think that's our reveal 0.97

00:36:34.920 on this episode at this point all that we know about him is he's a player yeah that's very 0.99

00:36:42.720 literal sense of a boy who fucks okay he is that that's all well 30 seconds from now there'll be

00:36:49.140 another reveal but um he's a man who actively has basically three wives and Cecil is like here's 0.96

00:36:55.740 what I want to do get him to marry Mary and then you can picture him on his whiteboard just being

00:36:59.980 like writing out the names of the three wives like okay how can we disentangle him from each

00:37:04.120 of these wives so he can marry

00:37:05.300 again. Remember the scene at the beginning of Lady Jane 0.67

00:37:08.320 where they're writing out the family

00:37:10.100 tree from Henry VIII with the three sisters

00:37:12.040 and they just draw one big old line through

00:37:14.260 Margaret Tudor and they're like, nope, not this

00:37:16.140 but I imagine him doing the same thing. It's just like

00:37:18.080 Dean Gordon, nope, absolutely not.

00:37:20.340 Nope, absolutely not.

00:37:22.100 Yeah, yeah. These are not insurmountable.

00:37:24.320 His like three wives

00:37:26.140 he has already. But also, so 0.81

00:37:28.060 Williamson was like, I want to marry

00:37:29.880 Boswell to marry because that will ruin Mary's

00:37:31.960 reputation, basically. But 0.92

00:37:33.980 what's the incentive? Why would Bothwell want to marry Mary? Like he has, he has a wife. He has

00:37:41.260 two mistresses. He's also sleeping with one of the servants. Like he, his sexual needs are being

00:37:46.780 met. But also like she is, as we mentioned, like just checked out for the time being, she's on a 0.72

00:37:53.600 mental health leave. And so he's sort of acting monarch. Like he mostly had full control of

00:37:58.980 everything in Scotland. Like he was, he had so much power. He wasn't literally the king, but he

00:38:03.600 would like had so much power and influence because he was ruling in her place because

00:38:06.820 he's the only person she trusted sort of the facto regent at this point even though she's

00:38:10.500 like very much still the queen exactly exactly so it's kind of like so why would he want this

00:38:15.780 well and the thing is he wants power right like cecil is easy he's just skilled at finding like

00:38:23.120 what how how do we manipulate who what's the thing they most want and bothwell was just basic 0.99

00:38:28.720 ass bitch like he just wanted more power certainly it was sex and both well it was power or both 0.99

00:38:33.460 very simple people they really are as much as both of them probably thought they were like really 1.00

00:38:39.140 complicated interesting people and also the thing is that both well is also very easy to manipulate

00:38:44.320 because once you figure out what somebody wants and you start telling them things like he is

00:38:49.440 he was getting carried away with how much power he got and so it was easy to lean into that

00:38:54.860 So William Cecil got Hollywood Econ Jimmy Stewart, Scottish Machiavelli, and Jeremy

00:38:59.720 Jam from Parks and Recreation to just be like, hey, Bothwell, maybe you should divorce Jean

00:39:04.620 and marry Mary Queen of Scots.

00:39:06.440 Maybe that would be a good idea.

00:39:08.080 You're basically the king already.

00:39:09.300 Maybe you should do that.

00:39:10.580 And he was like, maybe I should do that.

00:39:14.200 So I'm going to just tell you a bit more about Bothwell as a person.

00:39:18.160 So the thing about Bothwell as a person is that everyone hates him and always had hated

00:39:23.920 him. 0.78

00:39:24.260 where like Darnley sort of like came to town and everyone realized quickly oh he sucks and then

00:39:29.420 they hated him but Boswell like from minute one everyone already hated him his reputation

00:39:35.000 preceded him into the room it's not even his reputation it's like because he was he's like 0.97

00:39:40.380 I'm not hashtag like other assholes like I'm not like the other lords he's like my family is 0.92

00:39:45.560 different so he he never tried to be accepted by them he wanted to be an outsider like that's where 0.97

00:39:52.080 he derived his sort of power and his personality from just being like i'm not like the other guys

00:39:56.280 so he really and this is because i have been listening a lot lately to a podcast called

00:40:02.160 newbie star trek where people watch star trek next generation which is a really good podcast

00:40:06.520 by the way so i've just been thinking a lot of i'm like he's like a klingon from star trek

00:40:11.620 he's very much just kind of like honor like he feels like everything can be sorted out with like

00:40:16.980 a sore duel he's just like no more talking like everything is just duels like let's just do duels

00:40:21.780 all the time he's like it's a really sort of old-fashioned not chivalry thing but sort of

00:40:27.020 like an old-fashioned knight era thing like a very medieval thing where he's just kind of like i am

00:40:33.160 the one person with ethics in this situation everyone else is just like talking and having

00:40:38.240 committees and i'm just like no we should just fight like that's i'm getting like sir lancelot

00:40:43.400 vibes from this and i also hate sir lancelot so that all tracks yeah i'm the moral person man of

00:40:50.360 action in this room and everybody else is kind of also I'm sorry I'm not Lana for this episode

00:40:55.740 for your Star Trek references no it's fine it's fine people there are just like people who get

00:41:00.900 the Klingons are like yes he's like Worf got it but yeah he so he really was just kind of like

00:41:05.680 laws don't apply to him because he himself knows what's right to do all the time sort of thing

00:41:13.900 And this sort of code of ethics lifestyle was not as uncommon in like continental Europe and in Ireland, but in Scotland and England, they were kind of like, no, let's have a committee meeting and like talk this through and sign paperwork.

00:41:28.480 And Bothell's over there like, this could have been an email.

00:41:31.240 No, exactly. He's like, this could have been a duel is where he's coming from.

00:41:34.920 So just to remind you as well, because this is also pertinent.

00:41:37.880 So his dad, Patrick Hepburn, it's funny, actually, speaking of Hepburn, I, at the point that only one episode of this series had come out, I had like several people mentioned to me like, haha, they like how much I mentioned that like, my cat Hepburn is not related to the Hepburn family. And I'm like, so I must have said that a lot of times.

00:41:56.060 Just want to be extra sure that the people know Hepburn is not to blame for what happens. She is a perfect angel.

00:42:01.780 And Hepburn is also not named after anyone in this story.

00:42:05.440 She's named after Audrey Hepburn and Catherine Hepburn, the actresses, who perhaps they were descended from the Hepburns of the border region of Scotland.

00:42:14.000 But anyway, I just the Hepburn family vibe is so different from my Hepburns vibe.

00:42:18.920 I just really want to be clear about it.

00:42:20.640 Hepburn and Hepburn would never have three secret wives.

00:42:24.960 No, no, she would never.

00:42:27.260 She would never.

00:42:27.900 so at one point so his dad bothwell's dad patrick hepburn had wanted to marry mary's mother marie

00:42:33.940 de guise um at one point in the story i would like to marry marie de guise oh no everybody

00:42:39.580 people were falling out of trees being like please marry marie you're like six feet you're so tall

00:42:44.680 you're so smart you're so capable like of course but he was married to patrick hepburn he was

00:42:50.960 married to bothwell's mother honestly i am surprised knowing this family yeah well no and

00:42:57.480 this is kind of where it's like, so it's a family tradition of just like not getting one wife,

00:43:01.720 getting in the way of you getting another wife is sort of like, they're like, well,

00:43:04.920 laws don't apply to me, including the laws of bigamy, because we're just these like Klingon

00:43:10.340 guys. So in fact, he abandoned his wife, used his influence in the Catholic church to get an

00:43:15.080 annulment from her, but Asterix not making his children illegitimate because he wanted Bothwell

00:43:20.880 to still inherit. And Marie de Guise was just like, what are you doing? Of course, I'm not

00:43:24.460 going to marry you, which is like, there was a thing a while ago. I forget. It was like Jonathan

00:43:27.780 Franzen or somebody like left his wife to be with Natalie Portman. And Natalie Portman was like,

00:43:32.560 I've never met you, bro. That can't have been Jonathan Franzen. Hang on.

00:43:36.740 Someone like that. Wait. Okay. It's some literary author like that, but there's something where he

00:43:40.160 like had a whole thing where he thought that Natalie Portman, he was going to be with Natalie

00:43:43.860 Portman. Jonathan Safran Foer. Jonathan Safran Foer. Thank you. One of the Jonathan authors.

00:43:48.420 The other Jonathan. I was like, that doesn't sound like the Jonathan Franzen I know and have

00:43:52.580 strong opinions about. Yeah. But didn't he do that? He like thought he was Natalie Portman

00:43:57.780 wanted to be with him, but he never actually asked Natalie Portman, do you want to be with me?

00:44:01.060 And of course she didn't. She's Natalie Portman. What's he doing, man?

00:44:03.680 It's like, it's like Marie de Guise. So this guy like left his wife, did all this stuff with a

00:44:07.060 Catholic church to get an annulment to be with Marie de Guise. And she was like, I don't,

00:44:10.840 that's not happening. Like, what are you even doing? So that's his dad. Bothwell himself was

00:44:15.300 seven years older than Mary. And he had this sort of reputation. So it's kind of like daring do

00:44:19.580 sort of like freelance mercenary knight sort of pirate-esque vibes like he would just kind of

00:44:25.080 like blow into town be like oh it's bothwell like he's like worldly and cosmopolitan have you ever

00:44:29.360 seen blackadder and yeah am i getting lord flash art a little bit from bothwell yeah you just cut 1.00

00:44:35.400 you come in dick first you're slashing your sword around you're just like what up i'm here to fuck 1.00

00:44:40.220 things up and fuck somebody and then he sashes away that's a hundred percent it to the point 1.00

00:44:45.620 that i will put a picture of him when i when i post this on instagram so bothwell was like short 0.99

00:44:51.280 but like who is not short compared to mary kufa scott's who is six feet tall he had dark hair

00:44:55.300 and what was described as a mustache in the french manner which i'm imagining is kenneth

00:45:00.980 branagh off to the sides yes later in the story he does grow a beard which is like for a man i

00:45:07.180 think the point like similar to getting banged he's just like oh oh he's in his beard era like

00:45:12.440 anyway so one guy who met him described him as a vainglorious rash and hazardous young man

00:45:19.740 so yeah i thought you were gonna stop halfway through this and just call him a vainglorious

00:45:23.380 rash which is like the sickest burn i've ever heard which is that is good so the other thing

00:45:29.180 about him that's also everyone kind of knew is he hated england he was anglophobic he hate like

00:45:37.880 which is interesting because his family lives right on the border with england but he and his

00:45:42.140 family just like hate England. That's like their defining feature. And this is part of why William

00:45:46.560 Cecil knew that he could never, you know, buy him off, right? Like this is William Cecil's like,

00:45:51.500 well, I can never use him. Like he'll never work for me. So I guess I'll just be a convenient

00:45:55.740 scapegoat. He was also a longstanding personal enemy of Hollywood icon, Jimmy Stewart, because

00:46:01.420 at one point during the period, so before Mary Queen of Scots was there, but when Marie de Guise

00:46:06.060 was still there, you know, after Marie de Guise was just like, bro, I'm not going to marry you.

00:46:09.480 Like, have we met? Who are you even? So the assholes were trying to usurp power from Marie

00:46:14.240 DeGees. They were like John Knox, like Hollywood, I can Jimmy Stewart. They were all teaming up 1.00

00:46:19.060 together to try and like get rid of her as regent. Cecil was sending some money to support them

00:46:24.020 in their quest. But Bothwell, maybe because he's on the border, he just like grabbed the money and

00:46:30.040 ran. Literally, it was like a thousand pounds worth of gold coins. He was just like yoink and

00:46:35.680 just took it so hollywood icon jimmy stewart took that personally because that money had been meant

00:46:40.680 for him all the other protestants were also mad about that and so this is part of why everyone

00:46:45.520 hates bothwell because he just is out for himself all the time at one point um he was expelled from

00:46:51.420 edinburgh for starting too many duels you love to hate this guy for that reason because he is

00:46:59.320 a consistent personality well and i feel like getting kicked out of edinburgh for starting

00:47:03.440 too many duels is on par with like when lola montez was expelled from poland where like a

00:47:09.240 polish listener was just like do you know what you need to do to be expelled that was when she

00:47:13.580 was expelled from warsaw for undisclosed reasons right like something just went wrong in warsaw

00:47:19.680 yes this is not a lola montez recap show but i have to bring her up every time she shows up

00:47:24.300 no i mean it's like being being exiled from las vegas for like playing cards too much or something

00:47:31.260 it's just like what you do man how much do you need to okay so nice so he's staying too many

00:47:35.740 duels then this thing happened we talked about in previous episodes of bothwell he got in a fight

00:47:40.540 with arn jr a duel one might say and then arn jr said he claimed that bothwell had wanted him 0.91

00:47:48.700 arn jr to help kidnap mary and force her to marry him and i was like oh arn jr you're insane but

00:47:54.600 it's like but is he two old ladies from darnley's murder are just like we've been here before arn

00:48:00.500 jr no one listens exactly so both men were through in jail for treason bothwell escaped from jail

00:48:06.060 because like in the bush rangers episode um jails don't have walls or ceilings apparently

00:48:11.960 anyway so that'll happen before this this is all before this so but just bear in mind that like

00:48:16.900 bothwell's dad annulled his marriage to try to marry marie degeese bothwell himself allegedly

00:48:22.840 had wanted to kidnap mary earlier on perhaps anyway various things happened that's what my

00:48:28.080 note says various things happen mary started to become more anti-english and she started to think

00:48:33.680 like that bothwell guy like he hates england and he's like a chaos agent but if he's like a weapon

00:48:39.320 working on my side that could work so bothwell at this point when mary was like maybe let's call

00:48:46.220 the guy bothwell back to town like i know he was banished for starting too many duels but i could

00:48:49.780 use him at this point bothwell had escaped from jail he was actively shipwrecked um he had been

00:48:55.280 driven by a violent storm while en route to france captured taken by the english and imprisoned in

00:48:59.960 the tower of london so mary mary wrote to elizabeth to demand his return i would say to request his

00:49:05.320 return but i demand is apparently what she did elizabeth was like we'll think about it eventually

00:49:10.720 later bothwell was released on parole the english ambassador to scotland wrote quote lock up your

00:49:17.020 wives and daughters that's like a direct quote from six the musical god bless yeah yeah so he's 0.98

00:49:25.500 he's back on the scene he's ready to fuck shit up yeah he's on the scene he's back in scotland 0.98

00:49:31.200 and jimmy stewart is chasing him and then eventually bosswell shows up in a clutch moment 1.00

00:49:36.080 to help out mary when the assholes were rebelling against her for marrying darnley that's the chase 0.98

00:49:40.500 about raids it was at this point that she match made him with gene gordon because she's like let's 0.98

00:49:45.220 cement these alliances. Let's like, yeah, this is working for me. Well, he was put on the Privy

00:49:50.400 Council. He became one of Mary's trusted advisors. Then the Ritzio murder happened. Bothwell helped

00:49:54.280 her out a lot with that vis-a-vis helping her escape. And then the Darnley assassination plot,

00:49:58.480 which he was involved with. And everyone knows that because there was a piece of paper with his

00:50:02.160 name on it. And everyone else's name, every male named character in this podcast's name was also

00:50:09.060 on the document. So it just said James 95 times, basically. Basically. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's

00:50:13.520 my name so we don't have yeah exactly so okay this is the non-surprising plot twist which is 0.99

00:50:18.080 that bothwell was a piece of shit as well i mean we've talked about him he's kind of like a dirt 0.91

00:50:22.780 bag but this he also is like actively i just learned a new phrase i don't know if you've 0.99

00:50:27.520 heard this before it's he was a wrong in a wrong on like a wrong apostrophe u n he's a wrong like

00:50:33.940 a wrong one he's a wrong and that's adorable yeah i learned that from double love the sweet valley

00:50:39.220 High podcast hosted by two Irish women, Karen and Anna, who are at this point in the extended

00:50:43.820 vulgar history, shared universe in very confusing ways. But anyway, they were saying on their

00:50:48.700 podcast, oh, he's a wrong on. And I sent them a message. I'm just like, wow, I learned a new word

00:50:52.980 wrong on. And they're like, oh, no, it's wrong apostrophe UN. It's like a wrong one, like wrong

00:50:57.740 gun. Anyway, Bothell is a piece of shit, aka a wrong on. He is so shitty. Here's an example. 1.00

00:51:06.020 So, for instance, a few months after Darnley's death,

00:51:09.160 so he was hanging out with Mary a lot.

00:51:10.760 Like, she was going up to the Seton Castle

00:51:13.700 was where she would kind of go.

00:51:15.680 Remember, she needed to, like, get air

00:51:17.220 and, like, be outside and not just in a dark room.

00:51:19.280 In the dark room where her best friend was murdered, yeah.

00:51:21.780 Yeah.

00:51:22.400 So they were there,

00:51:23.720 and they were just, like, strolling the grounds,

00:51:25.020 and they were approached by an old man.

00:51:26.320 And this old man had been one of Darnley's former servants,

00:51:29.440 but now that Darnley was dead,

00:51:30.640 he was, like, he'd fallen into, like, bad times.

00:51:33.560 He asked for money.

00:51:34.300 mary was always generous like she was always giving out tips she was always giving out gifts

00:51:38.920 like she was always always always always helping people out so she likely would have given him

00:51:44.140 something but bothwell was just like freak the fuck out at this guy in fact to the he began to 0.85

00:51:49.300 punch and kick the beggar so savagely that the man died two days later jesus christ man yeah

00:51:56.580 so that's like a side of him that mary had witnessed allegedly around the same time is 0.94

00:52:04.700 when he first proposed marriage to her so it's not like he beat up to death a homeless person

00:52:10.200 and then proposed to her but it's like not too far apart so it reminds me of that thing in pride

00:52:16.300 and prejudice where mr darcy proposes to elizabeth but is mean and she says no but it's like

00:52:23.460 hey i just beat a man to death will you marry me like no no mary turned mary turned him down

00:52:31.660 and good for her she's like my husband died 20 days ago in a house bombing the first in recorded 0.98

00:52:39.980 history no i'm not going to marry you you just beat a man to death for asking for money anyway 1.00

00:52:46.420 so bothwell piece of shit and then people like elizabeth in england catherine de medici in 0.99

00:52:51.140 france were writing merry letters they're being like please put bothwell on trial for darnley's 0.99

00:52:54.660 murder everyone says he did it you remember there's a thing did i say this already one of his um

00:52:59.260 servants was seen like his servants was seen pushing barrels of gunpowder towards the house

00:53:04.100 that day like they were not good at crime these people no no so they were just like please put

00:53:10.460 both on trial for his murder like this is like a no-brainer like you need to do this because and

00:53:14.640 elizabeth and i think especially elizabeth was like people are like saying that you were involved

00:53:19.220 like you need to disavow this you need to disavow him you need to put him on trial just for your

00:53:23.140 own reputation in the background like elizabeth stop it my plan that's the thing that's the thing

00:53:29.440 this is really interesting there's a couple moments in this especially in that biography

00:53:32.480 of maitland scott is scottish machiavelli because he worked a lot with cecil i got some more cecil

00:53:36.260 intel but just to understand how much elizabeth was like kind of supporting mary almost throughout

00:53:42.800 but cecil's the one who's like what if we don't do that like so there's a lot of like elizabeth

00:53:48.500 versus mary queen versus queen where it's like yeah and they there are those parts in the story 0.97

00:53:53.300 and there are more of those parts coming up but like cecil is just the one who's fucking this up 0.58

00:53:57.380 like he because he wants to destabilize scotland to take it over for england but also this also

00:54:03.940 gives elizabeth plausible deniability right it's like oh she wasn't actually that bad like if she

00:54:07.740 knew about the plans maybe she would have been in on them too like she didn't not know what cecil

00:54:11.960 was doing she's not like an innocent oh no you you blew up my you blew up my best friend's life 0.90

00:54:17.120 how dare you we wanted to like spend all our time together she's still like a really savvy

00:54:21.520 political person she's just like yeah yeah i mean they are cousins though so like i do think there's

00:54:27.240 something in her that's like i'd prefer not to like completely destroy her but if i have to i

00:54:31.100 will and her thing too and we're gonna see this too as the story goes on is that elizabeth really

00:54:35.320 sees she really has such importance placed on being a monarch and like what that role means

00:54:41.720 being like god chose you to be the queen or whatever and that's more important than other

00:54:46.300 stuff like so she that's where she appreciates mary because she's like you know she and i may not

00:54:51.460 see eye to eye on like almost anything but it's like but she is a queen she was like divinely

00:54:55.740 given like like and if and if something happens to mary then that could set a precedent where

00:54:59.760 something could happen to elizabeth exactly like that's it's like the french revolution domino

00:55:04.140 effect she's like oh now we're overthrowing kings oh no well don't do that here please yeah yeah

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00:58:01.160 So they wanted Mary to put him on trial.

00:58:03.340 Mary did not.

00:58:04.520 But I don't know, again, like, I don't know how much this is Mary actively not doing that

00:58:08.040 and how much this is just like the investigators not making that happen because they themselves

00:58:12.960 were literally the murderers and they were covering their own tracks.

00:58:15.860 A trial did eventually occur, but it was not because Mary instigated it.

00:58:19.920 it was because Darnley's dad, Lennox, charged Bothwell with the murder. The day of the trial,

00:58:27.640 so I think Bothwell and Lennox were both told, okay, you can come and on the day of the trial,

00:58:31.680 you can each have like six guys with you. But Bothwell was like, did you mean 6,000?

00:58:36.580 And he filled Edinburgh with just like thousands of men loyal to him, like thugs, they were

00:58:43.900 described in one book. So the streets of Edinburgh were just full of like Bothwell bros to the point

00:58:48.960 the lennox didn't even come to town because he was like well can i also bring thousands of people

00:58:52.920 and it's like no sick so so he's just like i'm just gonna stay in glasgow with the douglas's

00:58:58.660 who are my family a douglas so so the trial was held both as both went down to the courthouse

00:59:06.620 riding on one of darnley's old horses because he mary had like given him darnley's old clothes

00:59:11.160 darnley's old horses and again not in like a because she loves him but just because like

00:59:15.860 clothes and things were valuable and Mary like giving people things she was seen waving to him

00:59:20.660 from the window as he headed off so the trial was a farce like almost literally a farce because any

00:59:27.440 witnesses had been either beaten up or threatened or bribed to not say what they saw or they were 0.99

00:59:33.260 dismissed like those two ladies the people who did testify did so just to protect the assholes 0.96

00:59:40.340 like predictably Bothwell was acquitted it was a show trial it was literally a play that they put 0.94

00:59:47.820 on to pretend like Bothwell was on trial but he wasn't really he's like great that's done so he

00:59:52.720 got new posters made saying like this guy is totally innocent picture of Bothwell

00:59:57.020 guess who didn't kill Darnley this guy

01:00:01.860 he's like that's how this works right this is how you change people's minds using posters but

01:00:09.280 everyone everyone knew he was probably guilty the trial had been a sham he both well being

01:00:14.320 both well he challenged anyone brave enough to hand-to-hand combat like you think i'm not

01:00:19.700 innocent i'll kill you like yeah let's duel this out bro somebody had to be arrested for the 0.60

01:00:25.620 darley murder because like he had been murdered very ostentatiously and very publicly so even 0.99

01:00:31.800 just to quell the public unrest so over the next months 62 suspects total rounded up almost

01:00:38.460 entirely maybe entirely servants like none of them were anyone whose name was on that piece of paper 0.56

01:00:43.740 they were all lower class people who had been kind of sacrificed because of course they were

01:00:49.200 one of whom is a guy that we mentioned before and i think you're gonna remember him

01:00:53.320 french paris i do remember french paris french paris bothwell servant who you might recall

01:00:59.260 mary saw when he was putting the gunpowder in the room and she said paris how begrimed you are 0.94

01:01:04.580 the better to blow up your husband with, my dear.

01:01:08.240 So he testified that Bothwell had kicked him 0.68

01:01:11.180 until he agreed to help.

01:01:13.360 Which he probably did.

01:01:15.740 Which tracks!

01:01:17.080 Like, Bothwell just kicked him repeatedly.

01:01:20.940 That's the Bothwell way.

01:01:22.680 Also arrested, I'm so sad to say,

01:01:24.360 Captain William Blackadder, played by Rowan Atkinson,

01:01:28.140 who we mentioned during that episode, 0.80

01:01:30.580 he was the first on the scene, but he was just a looky-loo. 0.97

01:01:33.140 He was like, no, I was just here. 0.98

01:01:34.580 hanging out with my friends drinking. And they're all like, sounds like you're a murderer. 0.98

01:01:38.220 You do have a suspicious sounding name.

01:01:40.300 You do have Rowan Atkinson's eyebrows and overall demeanor. So other like other servants who

01:01:46.680 arrested some of them named some of the actual conspirators like Scottish Machiavelli,

01:01:51.440 Jeremy Jem from Parks and Recreation, Cockers and North Jr. Like they did name them, but

01:01:56.020 like those guys were not charged. Only servants were charged. And in fact, Blackadder and French

01:02:00.760 parents were among those found guilty and executed for the murder of darnley french paris you know

01:02:07.280 au revoir so bothwell was again doing fine to celebrate his like being innocent he invited 28

01:02:16.860 assholes with him to a place called ainsley's tavern which it's unclear if that's like actually

01:02:22.720 a place or if ainsley's tavern was like ainsley's tavern catering services incorporated and they

01:02:28.120 could just like turn your house into ainsley's tavern and you could just do that in your house

01:02:32.060 yeah and like literally like i read that in a book like it's just like this happened at ainsley's

01:02:42.060 tavern but there's no record of a place in edinburgh at this time called ainsley's tavern

01:02:45.360 so it's like is that just maybe just a guy named ainsley brought over some beer that's what they

01:02:49.360 called it hey it's ainsley's like artisanal ale it's adorable good for him for supporting a small

01:02:55.680 business though honestly yeah yeah so he invited these 28 guys over to be like yay i'm innocent

01:03:03.520 and the 28 guys were also the 20 guys who like killed darnley so they're like so are we anyway

01:03:09.200 so while they're there at ainsley's tavern he brought out a document he's like you know what

01:03:13.300 we like a group scheme signed on a piece of paper and so this became known as the um ainsley's tavern

01:03:21.100 bond this piece of paper. And so it basically said, Bothwell is totally innocent of Darnley's

01:03:27.700 murder. And also if Mary decides to get married, a great choice of new husband would be this guy,

01:03:32.860 Bothwell, who totally didn't kill Darnley. And if Mary marries Bothwell, then he will give presents

01:03:39.180 and honors to everyone who signs this piece of paper. And so basically everyone there signed

01:03:43.820 the piece of paper being like, sure. Okay. So signing this were, it was described in one of

01:03:49.120 the books kind of like the 12 days of christmas nine earls eight bishops seven barons among them

01:03:55.460 jeremy jamb and perks of recreation scottish machiavelli cocker the north jr can you remind

01:04:00.000 me what jeremy jamb's actual historical name is is james morton okay he the thing that is

01:04:07.880 challenging to me in reading all these biographies is we've got morton who is jeremy jamb from

01:04:13.480 creation we've got scottish machiavelli who is william maitland there's also a guy coming up

01:04:18.660 is going to be called melville and i'm just like that's too many m names i can't have that many m

01:04:23.320 names they're all just guys they're all just guys who are there so too many guys yeah so oh he is

01:04:30.780 jeremy jam is also a douglas a douglas he is he's affiliated with the douglas's i think he's like

01:04:36.600 the leader of the douglas's i think during the davy rizzio murder he was like leading the douglas's

01:04:41.640 to do that were there five douglases and douglases sing at this signature party

01:04:47.660 that's really hard to say by the way five douglases five lords a-leaping and douglas

01:04:58.160 oh there was there were definitely lords and they were leaping but so basically it's ainsley's

01:05:04.320 tavern catering company supply incorporated and they signed a piece of paper being like

01:05:09.080 if bothwell married mary we would support that we the undersigned every named character from this

01:05:14.260 story hollywood icon jimmy stewart not there because he's a slippery guy and he just like

01:05:19.580 doesn't put his name to paper so he has plausible deniability which honestly good for him in this 0.94

01:05:24.880 era it's just like these other assholes are just like let's sign some more paperwork like bro again 0.97

01:05:28.780 like signing paperwork again like this never works anyway so these guys also at this party 0.99

01:05:34.180 like they know he has three wives already but Jean Gordon was like the main wife she's the one

01:05:39.660 that everybody knew about and she was like I'm not gonna divorce you like no like not because

01:05:45.180 she liked Bothwell but just because like she had married him and she like got some properties to

01:05:50.800 manage and like she wanted to maintain her like that stuff like the money and things reasonably

01:05:56.460 she said in fact she would die with the name of Lady Bothwell so again this is not because

01:06:03.780 she loved or even liked him in fact Bothwell had started having an affair with one of her servants

01:06:07.840 on their honeymoon um yeah and he was also constantly hooking up with his ex Janet Beaton

01:06:16.020 but um she she just refused to claim that their one-year marriage had been a sham and so this is

01:06:22.740 like a Catholic slash Protestant thing because Protestants could get a divorce but Catholics can

01:06:28.420 like annul or separate you could get an annulment from the pope that would mean you were free to

01:06:34.800 marry again you could separate but you were still technically married in the eyes of god unless pope

01:06:39.840 said no you're good yeah so he was trying to cover all his bases he was like we should get an

01:06:45.060 annulment on the basis that he had a pre-existing contract with janet beaton and this is what he

01:06:50.460 wanted because mary was catholic and he knew that like a catholic can't marry a divorced person so

01:06:56.120 he wanted to get an annulment, not a divorce. But Jean was like, no. Considerable pressure was 0.74

01:07:02.680 brought on her, which is quite an evocative phrase considering this guy who just kicks people until

01:07:07.160 they do what he says. So like including the people trying to convince her to end this marriage was

01:07:12.380 her own brother, Cocklinworth Jr., who is like one of Bothwell's bros now. He had signed the

01:07:16.520 Ainsley's Tavern Bond. So Bothwell's like, okay, well, maybe we can get instead of a Catholic 1.00

01:07:20.660 annulment, what about a Protestant divorce? Like maybe on the grounds of I had an affair with a

01:07:24.460 servant on our honeymoon. And Jean was still like, no, like, no, like I'm not ending this

01:07:30.060 marriage. Fuck you. No, honestly, good for her because anything that makes Bothwell mad makes me 1.00

01:07:36.140 glad. But so anyway, Jean is just like, no, bro, I'm not doing it. And then Bothwell is just like,

01:07:40.860 well, you know what? Fuck that. I'm just going to like marry Mary anyway, because that is the 1.00

01:07:46.060 the Hepburn way asterisk no affiliation to Hepburn my cat this is his Klingon way so two weeks later

01:07:55.000 the Ainsley's Tavern bond was signed and then two weeks later Mary not knowing any of this is going

01:08:00.340 on she's just again extremely depressed numerous like like simultaneous health issues she's just

01:08:08.460 like whatevering she needs to do to like get through day to day she didn't know that all

01:08:13.320 schemes are happening, but she knows schemes are always happening. She went to Sterling Castle to

01:08:17.800 go visit her son, baby prince BJ, who is by now 10 months old. So if we're just tracking everything

01:08:23.760 in terms of timeline, like the baby is 10 months old. Rizzio was murdered while she was pregnant.

01:08:29.800 Darnley was murdered shortly after he was born. Like this is like this two year period is just

01:08:36.340 like event, event, event. So she wanted to bring the baby back with her to where she was staying

01:08:40.540 at holly rood holly rood castle but the guy in charge at sterling was like no and kind of in a

01:08:46.980 good way because he was like i feel like if i gave you the baby bothwell might like kill this baby 0.99

01:08:51.540 because what the fuck is this guy not gonna do or he might hold the baby ransom or like he's 0.99

01:08:58.420 basically this guy at the castle i didn't write down his name but like thank you this guy he's 0.99

01:09:02.820 just like i'm gonna keep the baby here away from bothwell who is awful also do you remember this

01:09:09.760 country's long history of kidnapping babies. Let's not bring this baby outside right now.

01:09:14.400 No, Sterling Castle is the castle where you put babies to have them not be kidnapped. And that's

01:09:18.160 where the baby is. And he's like, and that's where the baby's going to stay. So Mary hung out with

01:09:21.420 her baby for two days. Then she fell ill, understandably, like she is always ill, right?

01:09:27.220 But she just like needed to rest. So she stayed for two days at this other palace. And then she

01:09:31.760 was heading back to Edinburgh with her like entourage, which included Scottish Machiavelli,

01:09:36.860 Cox the North Jr. Another guy who I haven't really mentioned, but he's going to be important. I was

01:09:41.860 like, God damn it. Another man I need to put in this fucking story. Anyway, his name is Melville 1.00

01:09:48.020 and I'm going to call him Moby Dick after Herman Melville and as well as 30 horsemen.

01:09:54.280 So they're just like heading back to Edinburgh after she saw her son. She's like sick. And then 0.63

01:09:59.440 they were halted on their way by Bothwell with 800 men with swords who told her that she was in

01:10:03.940 grave danger and that she shouldn't go back to edinburgh it was dangerous there that come with

01:10:07.780 him back to dunbar castle and mary was like sounds fake but she's like i guess like whatever she's

01:10:14.600 sick she's tired 800 swords she's got 30 guys like he's got 800 swords and it's this guy she

01:10:21.660 trusts right the only guy anyway so she was taken to dunbar castle where she was locked inside like

01:10:30.500 for her own safety, quote unquote, the castle is surrounded by the 800 guys to defend her against

01:10:35.520 enemies. Bothwell brought her two women to wait on her, who are both named Janet, which was his

01:10:40.860 lover, Janet, and also his sister, also called Janet. So instead of the four Marys, she's got

01:10:45.700 two Janets. Moby Dick, this is where I'm just like, goddammit, this guy, Moby Dick is on the 0.94

01:10:50.960 scene. He's acting as Mary's personal secretary at this point. So we know part of what happened

01:10:54.780 at this castle because he was there. So she was still like doing queen shit. Anyway, so then 1.00

01:11:00.080 Bothwell was like, ahem, I've got this piece of paper that says you should marry me.

01:11:04.420 So I think you should marry me.

01:11:05.900 As you can see, I have a document saying that you should.

01:11:09.220 Who knows what happened here?

01:11:12.080 I guess I will put a little content warning. 0.79

01:11:16.260 Christina will put a content warning in the show notes because there is a sexual assault 1.00

01:11:22.720 component to this story.

01:11:25.520 So put the timestamp for whatever time it is right now.

01:11:27.720 Thank you.

01:11:28.080 so they had sex in some coerced way bothwell and mary so this is where people still to this day

01:11:37.700 find it easier and maybe more palatable to think maybe she was already lovers with him 0.91

01:11:43.020 maybe if she was already in love with bothwell they worked together to kill darnley and then

01:11:47.860 she only pretended to be kidnapped by him but secretly she knew he was going to do it 0.90

01:11:53.080 so that when they had sex at dunbar it wasn't rape that is a nicer story to think about

01:12:00.400 is it a true story given what we know about bothwell so far i would question it so whether

01:12:07.060 he talked her into it or took her like physically by force like mary had not chosen to be there she

01:12:13.780 had not chosen to be there with him either way it's sexual assault it doesn't matter if it's

01:12:17.000 verbal coercion or physical yeah no exactly she had not chosen willingly and freely any of this

01:12:22.800 to happen. And the reason why this detail I'm including in the story is because it's a lot of,

01:12:29.160 it's part of the narrative, but also because she became pregnant at this point. And that

01:12:33.440 is crucial. Following this, Mary spent the next two weeks at Dunbar. And so this is where like,

01:12:40.180 again, like we don't know what was going through her head, which is fine. But also this is where

01:12:46.680 a lot of people try to guess what was going through her head. So it's like she spent two

01:12:50.580 weeks there like quote without trying to escape where it's like bro there's 800 people outside

01:12:55.340 like like what's she gonna do we know she's good at escaping when she needs to so some people take

01:13:01.800 it to mean that like oh she didn't mind being there or like she wanted to be there or like

01:13:04.780 she wasn't a prisoner because she didn't try to escape that's a real victim blamey way of framing

01:13:09.200 this like if you didn't fight back then you must have wanted it which is gross yeah no exactly like

01:13:15.840 one of the biographies was like well you know she you know Moby Dick was there like some of

01:13:20.780 other people were there like if he was assaulting her she could have screamed like

01:13:25.260 everyone there was on Bothwell's payroll and also also maybe she did who knows you weren't there

01:13:34.220 right so that's where people just really want this to not have been rape because that gets in 0.99

01:13:39.340 the way of any reading of the story that's not Bothwell is a piece of shit who kidnapped her 0.96

01:13:44.260 interesting tidbit is that so the tv show rain ended before any of this happened like the 0.97

01:13:50.320 their version of mary com scott's story because they were tragically canceled before they could

01:13:55.220 do a fifth and final season so season four ends with mary and bothwell it basically ends with

01:14:01.660 bothwell being arrested for darnley's murder and then flash forward to years later so you don't

01:14:06.940 get any of this and i was like it's interesting because on rain and i think i told you this

01:14:10.320 before not on the podcast but i want everyone to know on the podcast too so when bothwell came on

01:14:14.540 the show rain he was cast with well everyone on the show rain is like an extremely attractive

01:14:18.800 person because it was a show on the cw and that's what that's their vibe that's the aesthetic even

01:14:24.240 the guy playing john knox weirdly hot quite a choice anyway so the guy that cast to play

01:14:28.980 bothwell was like really handsome instead of like an errol flynn carrie grant sort of way

01:14:33.320 like he's like you know what he is he's like the strapping knight sort of vibe is like the actor

01:14:38.400 who they hired. And he came on and he was like, Hey, you know, I used to, your mother trusted me

01:14:43.320 and she says that you can trust me too, which is true to what happened. And so he becomes like her

01:14:48.940 loyal advisor. True also happened, but then rain ended when he was arrested. So everything that

01:14:55.240 happens. So I was a rain Stan when it was on, I have a friendly relationship with one of the

01:15:05.060 writers of rain and so after the show ended i was like what were you gonna do in season five

01:15:09.580 with bothwell like he set him up to be this like great alternative to darnley like he's this

01:15:14.320 handsome guy who's nice and helpful and whatever like in rain they actually show bothwell literally

01:15:20.840 being the one who like beats up darnley in the lake amid the fiery explosion of his house like

01:15:25.120 he's the one who like kills him it was like very satisfying and he said oh basically because it's

01:15:29.320 rain he's like oh he's gonna like sell his soul to the devil or something like to get this to be

01:15:34.960 able to make this shift of like oh he seems like a great guy who's actually nice and helpful to be 0.86

01:15:39.020 like to doing this shit which like any retelling has to show him doing they were like oh he was 0.51

01:15:43.780 gonna just like become possessed by an evil demon or something which i think is letting him off a 0.99

01:15:48.940 little bit easy personally oh for sure for sure like no no no this was all all of this was you 1.00

01:15:55.900 he was always a piece of shit you were in charge you have agency my man yeah it's so i don't know 0.99

01:16:01.880 And that's since Rain, a lot of the times I see it as kind of like Mary's point of view. 1.00

01:16:06.340 So like what I'm trying to do with this podcast, too, is like I want to tell you how she saw these people and how she trusted them without the foresight of like that they're going to be a piece of shit later. 0.98

01:16:14.860 So I think on Rain, it's like she thought he was good. 0.99

01:16:16.940 And so the show showed him as being good, but they never got around to doing showing the rest of the shit he did.

01:16:22.300 I assume once you make your billions on the Tits Out Brigade Empire, you're going to give at least five million dollars to the team of Rain and ask them to make season five. 0.56

01:16:31.880 just for you you know what just for me yeah what a dream i would love to because there's some

01:16:36.540 characters i i would love to see them cast so characters we've yet to meet anyway so here's

01:16:42.740 the thing so moby dick is there he's on the scene melville who's her like secretary or whatever he's

01:16:48.120 on her side as insofar as like he's not on bothwell's side and he wrote down kind of what 0.99

01:16:53.600 he witnessed and part of what he witnessed was her calling out for a knife so she could kill herself

01:16:58.420 and if it didn't come quickly enough she was going to drown herself so like crime of passion

01:17:04.700 like two lovers absconding together like this was not like this is a woman in crisis who was

01:17:12.020 kidnapped and assaulted and yeah that's what's happening listeners can't tell but I can tell

01:17:17.980 that Hepburn the cat has arrived to make sure that we know she has no relation to Bethwell

01:17:23.520 She's very much here just being like, I disavow this.

01:17:27.920 The only Heparin that she recognizes is Catherine.

01:17:30.440 But Mary's like the citizens of Edinburgh, like her subjects, they heard that she had been taken to Dunbar.

01:17:35.040 They heard that she was kidnapped.

01:17:36.400 So the guys, remember the guys with the torches who were just like, what's happening?

01:17:39.460 Is someone messing with our queen?

01:17:40.460 Like those guys came out.

01:17:41.880 They tried to send a rescue party to go and save her.

01:17:44.560 The alarm bell was rung because she was like on her way to Edinburgh when she was taken.

01:17:48.740 So they, this is at the point where she's being taken.

01:17:51.440 They tried to point the cannons or two guns moved out of Edinburgh Castle to try to like fire on Bothwell's troops, but they were too far away.

01:17:58.640 So they weren't able to fire at them.

01:18:00.320 The cannons of Edinburgh Castle supporting character in this story.

01:18:03.800 So during those two weeks, Mary was there.

01:18:05.860 She did archery practice.

01:18:08.200 She went horseback riding.

01:18:09.400 She spent time embroidering.

01:18:11.200 The administrative duties of Queen continued to be carried out with Moby Dick, like kind of writing her letters for her and stuff. 0.99

01:18:17.460 But everyone knew this was really fucked up. 0.97

01:18:20.200 Like this was weird. 0.99

01:18:21.440 it's like they were all play acting this is not weird but like this was real weird what was going

01:18:27.080 on and again people being like well she did archery practice that means she wasn't depressed

01:18:31.300 and hadn't been assaulted where it's like it's the same as when Darnley died they're like she

01:18:35.660 wasn't really grieving because she went for a horseback ride like don't police other people's

01:18:40.120 like emotional responses to things and if Mary was in that house and all day for two weeks just

01:18:45.220 like screaming and crying and clawing at the windows like Bothwell maybe would have killed

01:18:49.260 her i don't know like she's doing what she needed to do anyway during this two-week period bothwell 0.99

01:18:53.380 went off to see poor gene long-suffering wife of one year she had understandably by now begun 0.78

01:19:00.500 divorce proceedings because he had just kidnapped the queen she's like i would like to remove myself

01:19:05.400 from the narrative very much so she got her lawyers to sue bothwell for divorce under for

01:19:10.420 protestant divorce and on the grounds of the affair with the maid not on the grounds of

01:19:15.220 kidnapping the queen and keeping her captive and sexually assaulting her but yeah exactly so so he

01:19:20.940 filed a counterclaim with the catholic church asking if the marriage declared null on grounds

01:19:26.400 that he and gene were too closely related and they were closely related in the sense of like

01:19:31.500 one of his family members was had married one of her family members sort of thing but in fact they

01:19:37.280 had gotten a dispensation before their marriage for that and gene like had that piece of paper

01:19:41.660 The Pope was like, I thought I covered this already.

01:19:45.180 Yeah, Bothwell was like, nope, totally didn't get a dispensation.

01:19:47.760 Totally. 0.96

01:19:48.220 Anyway, so she was granted the divorce.

01:19:51.460 Within a week, he got his annulment, saying the marriage was null and void.

01:19:55.060 Also, both of these things happened like weirdly quickly.

01:19:59.100 Everything's happening weirdly quickly.

01:20:01.260 So then they returned to Edinburgh.

01:20:03.940 And they're just like on their horses.

01:20:06.000 And unlike other times, she's returned to Edinburgh.

01:20:07.580 The citizens were just like, do we cheer?

01:20:10.000 Is this a good thing?

01:20:12.500 Is she a free person?

01:20:15.800 Like, what is happening?

01:20:18.020 So she moved back into Holyrood Palace,

01:20:20.220 and she had Bothwell appointed the Duke of Orkney

01:20:22.940 and the Lord of Shetland,

01:20:24.460 which raised his profile such that she would be able to marry him.

01:20:28.080 So it seems like she's going ahead with the,

01:20:30.620 like, I'm going to marry Bothwell situation,

01:20:32.480 which again is like, what are you doing?

01:20:34.200 Why?

01:20:34.860 So the thing is, Scottish law at this time

01:20:37.420 said that if a rape occurred and the man married the woman afterwards and she forgave him then it

01:20:43.140 was no longer a crime so it seems like that's what she's doing the law is wild that's all i'm 0.79

01:20:50.620 gonna say about that yeah so she could have not married him she could have been like this 0.99

01:20:56.380 motherfucker just kidnapped and assaulted me so the fact that she went along with marrying him 0.99

01:21:02.160 is why some people think well maybe she really was secretly in love with him and killed Durnley 1.00

01:21:08.700 and it's like no that's what William Cecil put on his whiteboard that's not what really happened

01:21:12.840 man but it's an efficient like you just said like it's an efficient storyline to be like okay if

01:21:18.260 she was in love with Bothwell and then they teamed up together to kill Durnley and then they got

01:21:21.540 married that's like that's a neat and tidy story that is like easy to it's also a big win for her 0.99

01:21:27.920 which like a nice story to believe in because you're like yeah fuck yeah merry-go you

01:21:32.800 exactly anyway so it's just these events happened and we don't know why she made the choices she 0.98

01:21:40.820 did part of why she made the choice she did maybe that she suspected because of the rape she was

01:21:45.920 pregnant which she was like she wouldn't have known two weeks later but she knew that was a

01:21:50.200 possibility and she wouldn't have wanted to be an unwed mother she wouldn't have wanted her child 0.89

01:21:55.440 to be maybe illegitimate like abortion is so much not an option for her that at some point

01:22:01.100 previously in the story there was a thing where like two people i think it was her apothecary

01:22:05.400 her french apothecary had an affair or like got one of her like servants pregnant and then they

01:22:12.220 tried to get an abortion and then that was found out and then both of them were executed so for

01:22:17.620 trying to get an abortion so that's like abortion law in scotland reminding everyone that she was

01:22:22.540 very catholic so yeah this is her where she's coming personally so it's like abortion not an

01:22:28.320 option for her anyway so whatever or maybe like she also she saw that letter signed by 28 people

01:22:34.920 being like yeah if you marry bothell we'd support it she might just be like i guess i'll do that i

01:22:39.100 don't know this is what happened and then historians have argued over why for 400 years

01:22:43.960 so all i can say is like here's what happened but i am like very confident that she was not involved

01:22:49.440 in the murder of Darnley,

01:22:51.480 mostly because she was just about

01:22:52.960 to sign paperwork with Elizabeth

01:22:54.340 that would have settled the succession.

01:22:56.660 And Darnley being murdered, 0.97

01:22:57.640 fucked that all up.

01:22:58.260 And she'd been working towards that 0.98

01:22:59.240 for five years.

01:23:00.000 She wouldn't have fucked that up.

01:23:01.120 Like she wouldn't have.

01:23:02.540 That was her whole dream.

01:23:04.640 And then the Bothwell thing,

01:23:05.540 he like, to me, 0.99

01:23:07.460 clearly kidnapped her and raped her. 0.99

01:23:11.260 And then she agreed to marry him. 0.99

01:23:12.640 And I don't think it's a love story.

01:23:14.720 But I understand that

01:23:15.740 that's an appealing narrative.

01:23:16.880 And that's why Cecil engineered this all.

01:23:21.000 And because her marrying Bothwell so soon after Darnley's murder, with everyone assuming he was guilty of the murder, did just what Cecil had wanted.

01:23:28.800 It made her look guilty of murdering Darnley as a crime of passion.

01:23:32.320 So there was a thing in this era when a couple was getting married, someone had to like pre-announce it.

01:23:37.520 It's like having the bans proclaimed.

01:23:40.220 I think people still do this in some places.

01:23:42.020 You have to like post in the newspaper so-and-so is going to marry so-and-so.

01:23:44.840 like so if someone can be like no they can't i'm his secret wife from norway or whatever

01:23:49.520 anyway so the bans had to be proclaimed like by the like minister in church saying like so and so

01:23:54.960 is going to marry so and so but both had trouble finding someone to do this because everyone hates

01:24:00.260 him no one support everyone hates him and no one supports his marriage and they all assumed the

01:24:04.500 queen was being held against her will by him which she was so john knox was not on the scene at this 0.94

01:24:09.720 point i don't give enough of a shit to like learn why but i did see one reference to the fact that 0.98

01:24:16.240 he had married a teenager recently and he was aged 57 and that was fucked up for everyone even in 0.98

01:24:24.600 like reformation scotland even if it's john knox and he kind of like peaced out for a while to like 0.88

01:24:29.780 ride out the scandal of him like grooming and marrying a child so john knox not on the scene

01:24:34.960 but his assistant was there. And so this assistant had heard, everyone had heard,

01:24:40.180 not even rumors, everyone knew that Bothwell had like kidnapped Mary and he refused to allow the

01:24:44.080 bans to be proclaimed unless Mary gave him written proof that she had not been raped or abducted

01:24:48.620 against her will. So she provided a statement saying I was not raped or abducted against my

01:24:53.140 will. And she said in the statement, like, you know, I, at first I was mad at Bothwell for

01:24:57.480 kidnapping me, but because of his record of loyal service, I now forgive him. So the assistant

01:25:03.200 didn't proclaim the bans in church but then he kind of like well and this is where you're like

01:25:06.780 oh you're like john knox's protege because he's like so bothwell is gonna marry mary queen of 0.98

01:25:11.940 scots but this is fucked up he killed darnley i don't agree with this like he said all the 1.00

01:25:17.000 stuff in church bothwell summoned this guy to be like what the fuck dude you just like 1.00

01:25:21.880 and this guy just like they're like john knox fanboy he was he was just like 1.00

01:25:29.260 if i can just mansplain to you for a minute why actually you're a piece of shit actually 0.99

01:25:33.480 except in this case it's like good for him no exactly in this case i'm just like yes you know 0.99

01:25:38.900 i kind of wish it was john nox at that point because it's like just use your power for good 1.00

01:25:43.080 like telling off this piece of shit for being a piece of shit bothwell of course threatened to 1.00

01:25:48.080 kill this guy but did not a duel a duel exactly um anyway and then mary and bothwell were goddamn 1.00

01:25:54.060 I'm married. So this was like, he kidnapped her on April 24th and they were married on May 15th. 0.98

01:26:00.360 So like not even a month later. And it was a Protestant ceremony. Scandal. Yeah. That was

01:26:08.220 Bathwell's religion, not Mary's. She wore an Italian black gown embroidered in gold and silver. 0.97

01:26:14.200 And then after them, because of mourning, because her husband died three minutes ago. And then she

01:26:18.760 changed into a dress of gold and yellow for the reception, which was open to the public and people

01:26:23.180 who went by just said no one was talking. I was sitting there. Everyone looked really sad. She

01:26:26.840 was like softly weeping to herself. Shortly after the ceremony, one of her friends or the priest or

01:26:32.740 somebody found her in tears and she regretted agreeing to a Protestant ceremony. She also said

01:26:37.840 that if, you know, she, if she was seen to be sad, it was because she could not rejoice nor ever

01:26:42.500 should again for she did nothing but wish for death. And then he was a piece of shit, his husband. 1.00

01:26:47.880 he often made her weep he had mood swings and the moods he swung between were mean 1.00

01:26:54.960 overly sexual and cranky were his three moods but he also really leaned suddenly

01:27:01.760 into a like calvinist protestant puritan vibe where he forbade all fun he forbid music cards

01:27:11.580 hunting hawking all things she liked and golf yeah all of her things she liked but also her

01:27:18.680 like coping mechanisms like the things that helped her get through the day he swore constantly people

01:27:24.620 were the way that he talked i have to say to use a vulgar history slash double love sweet valley

01:27:30.880 high podcast phrase made the the lords the asslords of scotland say herman my pills they

01:27:36.640 They were like to make those guys say, Harbin, my pills is like, how much swearing did he

01:27:41.500 have to swear?

01:27:42.360 Like, this is like dueling too much.

01:27:44.420 You kicked out of Edinburgh level.

01:27:45.880 Just like you swore too much for them.

01:27:48.040 You swore too much for Scotland?

01:27:50.000 Oh, my gosh.

01:27:51.500 Yeah.

01:27:51.880 He yelled at her constantly in public, making her cry.

01:27:55.380 Also note. 0.99

01:27:55.860 So the asshole lords did not attend their marriage, even though they had sent the document 0.99

01:27:59.420 being like, we support this marriage. 1.00

01:28:01.000 They threw their own party at the same time.

01:28:03.520 And part of their party was they had like a play where actors played Darnley and Bothwell.

01:28:08.720 And part of the play was like the actor playing Darnley, I think, like jokingly hanged Bothwell to death.

01:28:16.280 And everyone got so into it that the actor playing Bothwell actually almost died, but didn't die, but almost died.

01:28:22.440 Mary stopped attending Catholic mass. 0.51

01:28:24.860 So between that and the Protestant marriage made basically the country of France, a.k.a. Catherine de Medici, stop supporting her. 0.81

01:28:31.920 the pope also was like yeah pass from me bro so like all of the catholic countries who used to

01:28:39.200 support her now didn't her diggy's relatives no longer wrote her letters and to me that's like 0.99

01:28:44.180 the biggest sign of what an abusive asshole buffwell was like she's like the most catholic 0.96

01:28:49.600 person ever and when she's like okay i will have a protestant wedding and then stop going to mass 1.00

01:28:55.420 she is horrified of him no this is horrifying so um but like she saw him beat a man to death

01:29:02.320 so like she knows like if you don't do what he says even though she's the queen like that's

01:29:07.880 clearly not going to stop him so the broadsheets aka posters in edinburgh compared her to biblical

01:29:14.100 floozies like jezebel and delilah and also to the like greek figure of clytemnestra so again like

01:29:22.340 with the posters like the posters are being done by people with a real classical education

01:29:27.200 assuming that the readers of the posters can a read and b are familiar with these allegories

01:29:33.420 yeah so catholic europe saw her as entering a bigamous marriage with a heretic

01:29:38.060 and just like cecil wanted she also lost public opinion so like no one was supporting her anymore

01:29:45.320 like every person in scotland was against bothwell including the guys who had signed

01:29:51.080 that document at ainsley's tavern saying we support this marriage like they signed that

01:29:55.160 because they wanted to bring her down so that they could take over it's not like they knew that

01:30:01.580 her marrying bothwell would ruin her reputation but they wanted her reputation ruined so they

01:30:06.180 could take over not so bothwell could take over so they they got out a new document allison they're

01:30:11.700 just like you know what we need to sign all of our names which are all james to another piece

01:30:15.720 paper this is like treaty underscore final underscore final final yeah so they made a new 0.97

01:30:21.980 document and this one was like we're going to free mary from bothwell then we the assholes will take

01:30:27.740 over is what they were going to do and they called themselves the confederate lords which means a

01:30:33.840 different thing than the like yeah way that sounds today back then it was just like i've got a bunch

01:30:40.320 lords together yeah joined in a group so anyway everybody hated him they'd already hated him now

01:30:48.080 they hate him even more like they're all writing letters to elizabeth being like we hate him he's

01:30:51.960 terrible elizabeth like can aikland take over like get rid of this guy we hate him although

01:30:58.080 bothwell wrote elizabeth a letter being like hey so i'm the king of scotland now everyone loves me

01:31:02.560 it's great she's like hmm is that true and cecil's over there by the whiteboard being like it is 0.99

01:31:07.600 absolutely not true yeah so elizabeth wrote mary a strongly worded letter like what the fuck like 0.99

01:31:13.180 you're not like i wanted to name you my heir but i can't because you just married this guy so 0.97

01:31:19.400 cocklin north jr was like one of the only noble men left at court almost everyone had left like

01:31:23.460 at the meetings of the privy council like no one showed up so bothwell made a rule that's like

01:31:27.980 attendance is mandatory but everyone's like we're still not gonna come like we hate being around you

01:31:32.920 we hate you like anyway cocklin north jr was one of the only people still left but he was he asked

01:31:37.160 mary's permission good for him to leave because just like being around bothwell was disgusting 0.99

01:31:42.260 and mary was in such a bad place she was just like oh really so like your father cock of the 0.56

01:31:47.660 north are you going to rebel against me now too which is like the cruelest thing she could have

01:31:52.340 said to him considering how she like the last guy on her side the last guy on her side and like she

01:31:58.160 had you know led a civil war that led to the destruction of his whole family so the confederate 1.00

01:32:04.440 lords i'm just it's the same guys it's the assholes it's just the asshole lords um they 1.00

01:32:08.460 just give themselves a new name that i refuse to say so they're going into open rebellion they 1.00

01:32:11.820 publicly declared bothwell had murdered darnley and ravished the queen those true facts although

01:32:16.520 they had also co-murdered darnley we're gonna leave that bit out yeah but you know technically

01:32:22.180 true so mary at this point this is where it's like okay now she's doing stuff so it's like she

01:32:27.220 was in this like state of shock whatever like we don't know what she was thinking we don't she was

01:32:31.280 doing. Things were happening to and around her. But now she like starts doing stuff again. So

01:32:35.440 it's like her head is clear. I don't know, whatever. She's just like, she's back on the

01:32:38.920 scene. So she joined military preparations to face off against the asshole lords. She's like, 1.00

01:32:44.460 done this three times already. I know how to do this and I always win. So let's go.

01:32:49.140 They needed money to pay soldiers. So they started melting down gold and silver things

01:32:55.300 to make coins to pay their soldiers, which included melting down the giant solid gold

01:32:59.500 baptismal font elizabeth had sent glad that came up again glad for that callback yeah but it was

01:33:05.640 too big to fit into their like whatever they were melting things with so only part of it could be

01:33:09.380 melted and so then they went to hide out at borthwick castle which is 12 miles south of

01:33:15.040 edinburgh by now the assholes had taken baby prince bj in their custody they called upon the 0.73

01:33:22.740 people of scotland to take up arms against bothwell and i feel like the torch guys would do 0.97

01:33:27.320 that i think just the whole country is united in hating bothwell like nothing has ever brought 0.64

01:33:35.260 catholics protestants everybody is just like he sucks so they're all on that side except for these 0.87

01:33:43.740 guys being paid from the melted down gold fond coins so they're at borthwick castle and then 0.99

01:33:47.880 about 700 of the assholes arrived led by jeremy jam from parks and recreation a guy who's on the

01:33:53.540 squad is named lindsey and i'm going to mention him a few more times and i don't have to change 0.94

01:33:58.520 his name because his name is lindsey they wanted to quote free mary and demanded bothwell come out

01:34:03.940 to face them but knowing that you know he couldn't duel them all at once even though he really really

01:34:09.280 wanted to i'm sure he did but so to distract them so bothwell could escape mary went out to address

01:34:14.640 them this just turned she's calling at them from like the top of the castle and they were like on 0.92

01:34:18.200 the ground and this just turned into like yelling and insults back and forth apparently she started

01:34:22.560 swearing, which was not like her, but she, Bothwell's influence, I guess. And they were like,

01:34:27.040 a woman swearing? Herman, my pills. Which is, you know, listen to my whole episode about

01:34:32.700 women talking to learn about the history of why women swearing is okay, but people hate it. 0.75

01:34:39.500 Anyway, she went back inside to wait for backup, which never came. The next day she heard the 0.93

01:34:43.920 rebels had entered Edinburgh and they had been applauded by the crowds, which again,

01:34:49.100 Everyone hated Bothwell.

01:34:51.080 So she had to escape.

01:34:53.320 So to escape this castle, she dressed in men's clothes.

01:34:56.860 You remember how she liked to dress as a man? 0.96

01:34:58.360 Like she liked a disguise. 0.99

01:34:59.460 She liked an outfit.

01:35:00.220 She's just like, this is a pants moment.

01:35:02.380 Ready to go get my escaping pants on.

01:35:05.420 Exactly. 0.97

01:35:05.960 So she's lowered by servants on a rope from a window onto a horse.

01:35:09.040 That's so cool.

01:35:10.500 Yeah.

01:35:10.840 Like at the end of The Princess Bride.

01:35:12.500 So under Darkest Night, she rode a mile dressed as a man on the horse.

01:35:16.580 Like this is the thing.

01:35:17.700 she's making where they're like oh she could have escaped from bothwell if she wanted to 0.94

01:35:21.280 where it's like not if no one was helping her like she makes these daring escapes but like she

01:35:25.400 needs someone to hold the rope like she needs helpers anyway she's met by bothwell but i just

01:35:30.660 it's a cool story but also just this place um borthwick castle claim to fame is that mary queen

01:35:36.660 of scots slept here once but also allegedly the castle is haunted by the ghost of mary queen of

01:35:41.480 scots wearing pants which i love she's just like oh i wore pants here those were good times let me

01:35:46.640 let me visit here again from beyond i know it's like a place like an outfit she did not die wearing

01:35:52.020 a place she did not die in one night out of her life she's like you know where my ghost will haunt

01:35:57.500 and fair i think at the end of the final episode i'll talk about all the places where mary cream

01:36:01.560 scott's ghost is said to be but this one i was just like a pants ghost a ghost in pants you know

01:36:06.580 the lady on tiktok who's like the receptionist in heaven and when she's like what do you want

01:36:11.080 your ghost outfit to be that you marry was like you're those cool pants i was wearing that one

01:36:15.400 night when I escaped let's let's go with those those are cool yes perfect so anyway so there's 0.99

01:36:24.560 just betrayals double crossing people are switching to the other side the assholes took Edinburgh 0.95

01:36:29.520 like they got Edinburgh Castle they took the city and once you had that it's just kind of like 0.98

01:36:33.180 whoever had Edinburgh is gonna win basically but Marion Bothwell get ready for battle waiting for

01:36:39.180 Cocker the North Jr. to arrive with reinforcements but he never came because he had gone to Edinburgh

01:36:44.520 castle which was now under enemy control but also maybe he was just like i'm just gonna not

01:36:49.500 send reinforcements because i too hate bothwell this is such a weird vibe because i'm actively

01:36:55.620 rooting for mary to lose so that they can kill both well like it's such a strange it's a weird

01:37:01.400 thing and it's also confusing because and i think that's part of where it's just like we hate

01:37:06.120 bothwell but so like the confederate lords like the whole thing was like we need to liberate mary

01:37:11.020 from this guy which is like yes you should but then what are you gonna do with her like am i on

01:37:18.380 your side i don't know yet yeah well and this is the thing like i don't think the lord's new either

01:37:23.600 like they keep signing these documents then they have these like really bad mismanaged group

01:37:27.780 murderers and then none of them ever think what will we do after and this is another example of

01:37:34.400 that anyway so the battle was held at carberry hill near enborough on june 15th so that's like

01:37:40.500 one month after her marriage so she's abducted april 24th april two months basically two she's

01:37:47.660 abducted one month later married one month later this battle is happening so the rebel lords oh

01:37:54.500 if you don't know this detail it's a callback to something you're going to be really excited about

01:37:58.440 the rebel lords came out carrying a flag and do you know what was pictured on the flag can you

01:38:03.380 guess is it a titset mermaid no it's the picture of darnley's naked corpse from the drawing along

01:38:11.180 with it along with the picture from that same drawing of baby prince james crying out judge

01:38:15.760 and revenge my cause oh lord i didn't know that that makes me so happy oh my god can i i'm gonna

01:38:21.680 get one of those flags and hang it out my like living room window just into the courtyard for

01:38:26.080 the neighbors oh my god yeah so they like the images from that picture they made a flag version

01:38:31.560 of it they're making merch that should go in the merch store but like think about how that can go

01:38:36.040 in the merch store something something involving that picture needs to yeah so anyway they came

01:38:40.100 out with her flag of like the drawing anyway so by now mary had changed out of her men's disguise

01:38:45.840 but like she didn't have any of her outfits with her so she had borrowed clothes from a local like

01:38:49.540 woman which consisted of just like an outfit that like you remember she used to dress like this for

01:38:54.240 fun to make marmalade with her marries so she's wearing sort of like peasant woman cosplay she's 1.00

01:39:00.140 but she's so tall. She's six feet tall. No one else is that tall. So the skirt wasn't long 1.00

01:39:03.820 enough. The petticoat only came up to her knees. And when she rode her horse, because remember, 0.97

01:39:07.640 she would ride a stride. People could see like the bottoms of her legs. So it's just like an 0.90

01:39:12.420 undignified thing for the queen. Like considering the like glamour and power the last time she was

01:39:18.540 doing this with Darnley, they had their bespoke armor. They had their like special helmets. And

01:39:23.280 now she's wearing like clothes that don't fit her like long legs sticking out. Legs out moment, 1.00

01:39:28.080 but not in a good way. So there's a character who I, I'm happy to have a reason to say his name.

01:39:34.980 He's the French ambassador, Ducroque. So I just picture us being a little crocodile person,

01:39:41.620 like from the Disney Robin Hood somehow. So the French ambassador Ducroque was permitted to act

01:39:47.780 as an arbitrator, arbiter between the assholes and Bothwell and Maryside. And Ducroque advised 0.93

01:39:54.080 that she should surrender if she did both well would be given safe passage to leave the country

01:39:58.160 and she would be restored to the throne she refused so if we're doing the timeline of it all

01:40:03.440 she was abducted april 24th it's too yeah so she's as much as like seven weeks pregnant potentially

01:40:09.220 she would know by now that she was she's like no like i can't that my child cannot be illegitimate

01:40:14.700 like she didn't tell anyone but like she would know that she was pregnant and so she wasn't

01:40:19.360 going to like have both well leave to like anyway to safeguard her child's legitimacy and duke croc

01:40:25.580 was like oh well and then left so a battle did not commence right away it was just a bunch of

01:40:32.680 messages back and forth like for literally hours like they started in the morning and it just went

01:40:36.420 all day both well was like let's settle this like klingons do with single combat a duel so he wanted

01:40:43.680 like the other team to send like one guy and then he would fight that one guy and they would all do

01:40:47.360 this through a duel but then they're like okay we'll do that and they're like and we're gonna

01:40:50.140 send this guy both was like no i don't want to fight that guy how about this guy and they go

01:40:53.340 that guy chooses this that guy accepts but then he chooses this guy as his standard and both was

01:40:58.340 like well no i can't fight that guy so it's just like the day is just going on it was all really 0.97

01:41:03.280 hot and mary and both were at the top of a hill and the assholes were at like the bottom of the 0.59

01:41:08.140 hill near a stream so they could drink water this is also june and it's hot and they're wearing

01:41:14.100 armor so they were drinking water so eventually like the bothwell married team all they had to

01:41:18.520 drink was wine so how's that going and eventually they just started like deserting because they

01:41:23.600 just were thirsty so they started like switching to the other side probably everybody hated

01:41:27.920 bothwell so like that's a nice reason yeah so then the rebels eventually began to advance and

01:41:33.800 not just the one guy but like all of them he knew that if they bothwell knew like if they engaged in

01:41:39.920 battle it would be a massacre so he urged mary to surrender and this time she agreed so the sun

01:41:45.380 was going down like this has been the whole day and they embraced publicly and as they did he gave

01:41:51.580 her one of those documents he gave her the document saying we will all kill darley together so she

01:41:57.020 would know who actually had been involved in that and then he rode away to raise support for her

01:42:02.040 elsewhere that's a wild choice on his part yes only after he was like too far to be for anyone

01:42:09.940 to catch up did mary allow herself to be led away through the rebels army towards edinburgh

01:42:15.260 following her on a pony was mary seaton from the four marys so i guess she'd been there for a lot

01:42:20.480 of this and the rebels were like okay bothwell's gone and they're like mary you know we're gonna

01:42:26.500 take you back to edinburgh and you can be queen again like maybe your son will be there is what

01:42:31.540 they said is that where they were taking her and is that what was going to happen find out next time

01:42:37.800 what a tease what a tease but this is already an incredibly long episode but i'm gonna tell

01:42:44.620 i'm gonna say even more because we have time we started recording early this is like i want to

01:42:49.480 tell you what happened to bothwell next because he's not going to be in the later episode so we

01:42:53.180 can get rid of bothwell in this one episode and the listeners do not have to have a bothwell

01:42:57.420 warning for next week that would be a good idea yeah but also this is a story i'm excited to share

01:43:01.960 with you okay especially if you don't know this so he rode around trying to get people to join

01:43:07.180 his cause nobody did everyone hates him but he went up north trying to rally his supporters

01:43:11.960 but do you remember he married gene gordon from like cock to the north from the gordons who were

01:43:18.240 like in charge of the north and he's like come join me and they're all like didn't you just treat 0.96

01:43:21.480 gene gordon like a piece of shit who were gonna not support you actually and gene's just gene is 0.98

01:43:26.760 just like fuck off forever so he so they didn't help out and then he had like a dozen bros still 1.00

01:43:33.600 with him bothwell bros i guess guys with nothing better to do so they were hung out up there in 0.99

01:43:39.580 the northeast of scotland with his great uncle um who was the bishop of moray but then some of 0.95

01:43:45.420 his children tried to betray bothwell for money because this whole family was garbage but he was 0.87

01:43:49.720 also garbage a group of assassins tried to kill him but he fought them off i feel like this is 0.99

01:43:54.420 he's living his dream life all he's ever wanted to be able to fight off a pack of assassins

01:43:58.780 single-handedly just duel after duel so then he headed further north by boat um he like and where

01:44:04.980 did he get the boats from like he stole them he just like saw some fishing guy was like you give

01:44:08.960 me your boat and just like took the boat so he set up the coast making for orkney but in because

01:44:15.260 he was named the duke of orkney like before they got married but had the news even reached orkney

01:44:19.580 yet that Darnley was dead? Maybe not. I don't know. Anyway, so he did not get a warm welcome

01:44:24.700 there, quote unquote. He went into Shetland, added on some more ships, included a double-masted boat

01:44:29.940 called the Pelican, which was equipped with guns to defend against pirates. And then I'm going to

01:44:36.400 say Name Redacted was at this point in charge down at Edinburgh, and four large ships equipped with

01:44:43.020 guns, 400 men, and several smaller vessels were sent after Bothwell. One of the main men in charge

01:44:47.800 of this was a guy whose name comes up every now and then kirk caldy of grange which is just a

01:44:53.080 memorable name when he shows up i'm like i remember that name anyway so kirk caldy is kind of like

01:44:58.180 the main guy leading these ships so they surprised they sailed to shetland where

01:45:02.120 bothwell was he was on shore eating lunch while his boats were lying at anchor so then they set

01:45:08.520 sail in the confusion um in the confusion one of his ships bothwell ships sailed dangerously close

01:45:13.100 to a reef. It just made it over, but Kirk Caldy of Grange's ship, the Unicorn, struck hard and

01:45:18.900 sank. And that is why that is still called Unicorn Rock to this day. So Bothwell escaped overland,

01:45:26.040 rejoining his ships. And then a sea battle took place against the people chasing him,

01:45:30.860 lasting three hours. But his side won because the weather and his crew's expert seamanship were on

01:45:37.440 his side. And then he sailed off towards, and I'm not sure why, Norway. But that's where he was

01:45:43.380 going. That's where you go when the going gets tough and you're a headburn, I think.

01:45:48.160 That's what's up. Yeah. So they had been on the run now for two months, had no provisions and

01:45:52.020 didn't really know where they were, where they were going. And then they were challenged in like

01:45:55.960 the ocean by a Danish warship out patrolling for pirates. And Bothwell was like, it's cool. I'm

01:46:00.560 the king of Scotland, actually. He like beard, like been on the run for two months, just like

01:46:06.580 messy he didn't have any of his papers with him because the ship had sunk or whatever and the

01:46:10.740 danish warship captain was like sure yeah you're the king of scots right anyway so like why don't

01:46:16.560 you just come on board for a little little visit king of scotland both was like i don't mind if i

01:46:20.720 do so once he was on board they were like we're gonna just take you to bergen to sort this out

01:46:25.580 um and he had to go that was he was on the ship so he went to bergen where he got entangled in

01:46:33.120 legal court because basically they thought you're like you're a pirate like these are ships that

01:46:36.820 you don't own you stole them right you're sailing mysteriously near norway i don't trust this yeah

01:46:42.380 so like you clearly are a pirate right you're a pirate so there's just like legal battles about

01:46:47.320 like who owned the ships that he was commanding he had no papers for them and oh and one of the

01:46:51.900 ships he had stolen was the owner of it was already accused of piracy that's like stealing

01:46:58.140 a car that's been reported stolen by someone else. But also, in a devastating twist that I love,

01:47:04.380 do you know who was in town in Bergen at the same time? Scotta Fruin. Yes. Anna Tronson. My girl.

01:47:12.880 Get it. So she was the daughter of a Danish admiral. She had status there. And she had

01:47:19.380 Bothwell summoned before the court where she provided documents showing that they had been

01:47:22.980 married. And in Scandinavia, a hand fasting was legally binding. So Bothwell had to agree to pay

01:47:29.920 Anna an annuity and to hand over one of his ships to her. I love that he's just hoisted by her. I

01:47:36.680 love that she was there. I love that he wound up in the country where she was. I love that both of

01:47:42.760 his first two wives fucked him over in the end because the Gordons were like, no, we won't help 1.00

01:47:47.340 you. Run away, you little man. And so he runs away to home of first wife who's like, actually, give 1.00

01:47:52.240 me all your money and all your ships. This is what you deserve, man. Exactly. So then he was

01:47:57.020 sent to Copenhagen for the Danish government to decide his fate. He claimed to be the King of

01:48:01.080 Scots, but they were just like, you are a pirate. You stole a ship from honest merchants. You're a

01:48:07.560 multiple adulterer. You had abandoned this like important Scandinavian woman. You're a piece of 0.99

01:48:13.400 shit. You were a rongan. And that's what we see. So the Scottish parliament asked for him to be 1.00

01:48:19.480 sent back, but he wasn't. And then he was forgotten and everyone in Scotland kind of

01:48:23.520 assumed he was dead, but he wasn't. So by the summer of 1573, he was in Denmark state prison

01:48:30.440 at Dragsholm where he was put in sort of like the dungeon. It was like a room. Okay. So he

01:48:37.560 ended his days in a sunken room. So it's like a half basement, like not a full apartment sort of

01:48:44.120 thing yeah yeah like you'd pay a lot for this in brooklyn or whatever so he was chained to a pillar

01:48:49.860 half his height unable to stand upright food was thrown down to him at regular intervals and he

01:48:54.820 went insane as you would but he probably lived for another like five years like that then it gets

01:49:01.920 here's some final details his corpse mummified by sea air was left on public display

01:49:07.420 until the 1930s.

01:49:10.300 What?

01:49:11.320 That's so long.

01:49:13.000 The head was separated from the body

01:49:14.720 and there are stories that children

01:49:16.120 had at one point used his head as a football.

01:49:18.180 Good for them.

01:49:18.860 This is just, again, I'm just like, 1.00

01:49:20.540 no punishment is too severe for this piece of shit. 1.00

01:49:24.020 So in the 1970s, an American with the surname Bothwell 1.00

01:49:27.840 became interested in the story.

01:49:29.980 I don't know.

01:49:30.940 I don't know what became of his child with Anna Tronson.

01:49:34.460 I don't know if this is a direct descendant.

01:49:35.660 Anyway, someone called Bothwell was just like,

01:49:36.920 Oh, a person in history called Bothwell, who like died in a prison and then his mummified

01:49:40.840 corpse was put on display.

01:49:42.280 So a personal intervention from the Danish queen in like the 20th century resulted in

01:49:48.360 the removal of his body from public display and his coffin was sealed.

01:49:52.440 So another of his distant descendants tried to have his body repatriated, I guess, to

01:49:57.000 Scotland.

01:49:57.620 Where nobody wanted him to be.

01:49:59.520 Nope.

01:49:59.920 His grave remains in a crypt in Denmark in a sealed wooden coffin provided by the Queen

01:50:03.640 of Denmark.

01:50:04.540 And that is the end of Bothwell.

01:50:06.140 And I just wanted to wrap things up with two quotes.

01:50:08.980 So this is a description from a 2013 movie, Mary Queen of Scots, which I haven't seen.

01:50:13.880 It's not streaming anywhere.

01:50:15.480 It's a Swiss product, at least the director is Swiss.

01:50:18.180 Anyway, when Mary finds the love of her life, the Earl of Bothwell, she has darnedly murdered

01:50:22.560 in Mary's Bothwell.

01:50:23.960 Horrified by this deed and the blind passion that motivated it, both the nobles and the

01:50:27.460 people of Scotland spurn her.

01:50:29.180 To avert a bloody battle, Mary is compelled to give up her beloved Bothwell.

01:50:33.320 All right.

01:50:33.780 So just in terms of like that narrative is compelling and to this day still used to explain

01:50:42.700 what happened. This is from the back of the box of the 1936 movie, Mary of Scotland starring

01:50:49.260 Catherine Hepburn. Lovely Mary Stewart, queen of Scotland and France, but only sometime ruler

01:50:53.960 of her own heart, careens through a tumultuous life. Men flatter her, then betray her. Her people

01:50:59.420 embrace her than vilify her both fierce and fragile as a headstrong queen katherine hepburn

01:51:04.140 is brilliantly matched by frederick march as her courageous lover bothwell i hated this yeah so

01:51:10.180 bothwell just really in terms of like how is he remembered it's kind of not always as the piece 0.94

01:51:16.740 of shit that he was well done cecil oh to this day like the fact that he started engineering that 0.95

01:51:23.060 like before the two of them even got married he was like what if we connect those two together 1.00

01:51:28.020 make it seem like a crime of passion,

01:51:29.880 like that he was doing that,

01:51:31.280 that he did that.

01:51:32.360 And then 400 years later,

01:51:33.820 Catherine Hepburn was like,

01:51:35.120 absolutely.

01:51:36.220 Yeah.

01:51:36.620 My courageous lover,

01:51:37.700 Bothwell,

01:51:38.240 like who,

01:51:38.720 who can play this role of this dreamy night of my heart?

01:51:43.840 So that was that very long episode.

01:51:46.760 There will be another,

01:51:48.220 there will be more episodes

01:51:49.100 because the story is not over.

01:51:50.820 But Alison,

01:51:51.440 please tell everybody about your books

01:51:54.060 and your website

01:51:55.600 and where to your newsletter and all your things.

01:51:58.920 All the things, yes.

01:51:59.900 You can find all of the things that I do on my website,

01:52:03.100 which I updated last weekend. 0.93

01:52:04.780 Lana didn't even have to yell at me.

01:52:05.900 I did it myself.

01:52:07.080 AlisonEpskeen.com.

01:52:08.180 You can find their links to my two books.

01:52:10.460 The first one is A Tip for the Hangman,

01:52:12.360 which is a tutor spy adventure.

01:52:15.700 The first half of which involves

01:52:17.760 later adventures of Mary, Queen of Scots,

01:52:20.060 which we will get into maybe next week,

01:52:21.560 maybe the following week.

01:52:22.820 The second is Let the Dead Bury the Dead,

01:52:24.940 an alternate history 19th century Russian novel

01:52:27.200 coming out in October.

01:52:28.780 And you can also find on my website

01:52:31.120 a link to subscribe to my newsletter,

01:52:33.340 Dirt Bags Through the Ages,

01:52:34.540 which is a bi-weekly look at the worst people in history 0.99

01:52:38.760 and why I hate them or why I love them for being shitty. 0.95

01:52:42.540 Including a two-part Darnley super special. 0.89

01:52:44.760 If you want to see the pictures of Darnley

01:52:47.700 laying dead without any pants in a garden,

01:52:50.360 you can indeed find those on my newsletter.

01:52:52.120 Absolutely.

01:52:53.060 And I will just say,

01:52:53.820 you can keep up with this podcast on Instagram at vulgarhistorypod. I know we mentioned a lot

01:52:59.240 of people and a lot of pictures and things, and those are all, the Instagram is where I share

01:53:03.180 most of those mostly. Also, I'm on TikTok at vulgarhistory. And if you go to vulgarhistory.com,

01:53:09.100 all the episodes are there, as well as the recent episodes have transcriptions by Eveline Malek of

01:53:14.440 The Wordery. And we have a store, which is vulgarhistory.com slash store, which is the

01:53:20.620 that works best for people in the U.S. in terms of shipping costs. If you're international now,

01:53:25.420 vulgarhistory.redbubble.com works better in terms of shipping costs. I also have a newsletter,

01:53:32.380 which perhaps by the time this episode comes out, I will have updated. It's a low pressure

01:53:37.540 fun thing for me. So I have a lot on my plate right now vis-a-vis recording six hours of a

01:53:44.340 podcast about Mary Queen of Scots every day. But anyway, threenicethings.substack.com is where you

01:53:50.040 can follow my newsletter, which I will be doing more stuff with once this Mary Queen of Scots

01:53:53.880 shenanigans is over. And I have a Patreon, which is patreon.com slash Anne Foster Writer,

01:53:59.640 where once I get to 500 people on Patreon, I am going to do So This Asshole John Knox

01:54:04.480 as a special episode for the Patreons. And there's a new thing where if you can sign up for a trial

01:54:10.060 so you can see what it's like before you like commit. But anyway, if you pledge at least $1 a

01:54:14.500 month, then you get early every access to all episodes. And if you pledge at least $5 a month,

01:54:18.960 you get that the early every access as well as access to our special patreon only spinoff series

01:54:26.360 so there's so this asshole alison recently joined me for a i don't know just so these guys we did 0.90

01:54:32.900 an episode with bush rangers just australian dirtbags and vulgar peace theater where you 0.95

01:54:37.740 and i and lana would johnson talk about costume dramas in episodes that are nearly as long that

01:54:43.560 are longer than what this is but but not by much not by much recording one this weekend which

01:54:48.860 means that I am talking to Anne for upwards of eight and a half hours this week. So lots of

01:54:54.800 content coming your way. Lots of content, lots of Allison and Anne banter. Anyway, that was a long

01:55:00.360 episode. Thank you all for listening to this. There's going to be more Mary Cream of Scouts

01:55:05.140 episodes. Just let me think. There's going to be, I don't even know, like basically between me

01:55:11.120 telling you stuff and then experts, experts, maybe the authors of some of the books that I've referred

01:55:16.160 to coming on to share information with you. There's going to be at least four more episodes

01:55:20.700 of Mary Queen of Scots content. So thank you all for listening. Until next time, keep your pants on

01:55:25.180 and your tits out. Folger History is hosted, written, and researched by Anne Foster and edited 0.99

01:55:30.880 by Christina Lumagi.

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Vulgar History - June 28, 2023

Mary, Queen of Scots： Part Six： The Mermaid and the Hare

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