Vulgar History - Movie Discussion： Shakespeare In Love (1998)

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00:00:30.000 chew on this bold question from dentine gum is it ever okay to compliment a millennial

00:00:36.320 on their skinny jeans in 2026 dentine chew bold hi everyone it's me and foster host of

00:00:48.840 the vulgar history podcast um this is sort of like an ad for me i guess for just other stuff

00:00:57.400 i'm doing so i have a patreon page which is at patreon.com slash ann foster writer and that is

00:01:04.340 where um as you hear me say every episode uh if you pay some money each month you get some extra

00:01:11.500 stuff from me and so i've just started a new thing on there so there's already every month

00:01:17.960 on patreon uh so this asshole episodes where i talk about horrible men from history and then now

00:01:24.580 i've added a new sub series i don't know what to call it mini so technically although this is an

00:01:31.160 hour and 41 minutes long anyway so to the patreon subscribers you will get this new series i'm doing

00:01:37.460 with my friends allison epstein and lana wood johnson who are both authors and history nerds

00:01:44.200 and we're going to be watching costume dramas and just kind of talking about them it's called

00:01:50.100 vulgar peace theater and to give you a taste for what these episodes are going to be like

00:01:54.640 i'm just releasing this the first episode of vulgar peace theater out for everybody

00:01:59.100 and if you want to hear more of this stuff slash support me and the podcast um you can head on

00:02:06.200 over to patreon.com slash ann foster writer and i hope you enjoy okay so welcome to the first ever

00:02:14.260 episode of Vulgar Peace Theater. You know me. My name is Anne Foster. I host the Vulgar History

00:02:20.620 Podcast. And the history that I most know about at the moment is Tudor England slash France,

00:02:30.460 Spain, and a bit of Italy. Joining me are two people who know about other things. So we're all

00:02:35.760 going to have all fun different viewpoints about this. So do you want to, I'll pick one of you,

00:02:40.200 Allison, do you want to introduce yourself? Absolutely. I'm Allison Epstein. I am a

00:02:46.080 historical fiction author. My book is called A Tip for the Hangman, and it's set in Elizabethan

00:02:51.120 England, so that's where most of my history knowledge lives, is Tudor, early Stuart, England.

00:02:57.640 I've also been researching Russian history a lot these past two years, so my brain is in those two

00:03:03.600 places. Perfect. And then our third co-host Lana, am I saying your name right? I'm always worried 0.96

00:03:10.280 about it. It rhymes with banana. Well, I think that however you say banana, that is how you say

00:03:16.380 my name. So I have allowances for people who have the more British pronunciations. Okay. So how

00:03:22.020 everyone says, cause I'm always like, is it like how I say banana or is it not like how I say

00:03:25.720 banana? And then I freeze up. Lana Wood Johnson, introduce yourself, please. Hi, I'm Lana Wood

00:03:32.040 johnson the author of two young adult contemporary novels the first is technically you started it and

00:03:37.800 the second is speak for yourself um both of which have been described as having unnecessary amounts

00:03:43.880 of history information that adults shouldn't know and um my background is i have a bachelor of arts

00:03:52.620 in history with an emphasis in Europe and historical demography. And I've studied a

00:04:01.720 comparative Europe and East Asia during the industrial revolutions. My specialty is

00:04:11.820 more the Habsburgs and the Holy Roman Empire and all of the messy messiness that goes

00:04:22.500 into that but I have a working knowledge of American history and I was the president of

00:04:28.320 the history club at the University of Minnesota. There was a history club. Yes and we ran history

00:04:34.780 day for the state of Minnesota the state finals for history day we ran those. There was a history

00:04:40.620 day these are all things I'm not familiar with but that's not what we're here to talk about

00:04:45.060 but I'm dying to know more about it but I feel like there's going to be a lot of asides and I

00:04:49.180 want to focus these sides on the film that we're discussing today so I think given what our

00:04:55.680 respective knowledge areas are Allison I think is going to be the one with the most I came with

00:05:01.100 facts and opinions and I will alternate between the two okay because I have several questions

00:05:06.400 where I was like oh Allison probably knows this um so we're talking about Shakespeare in Love

00:05:10.740 it's a movie from 1998 written by Mark Norman and Tom Stoppard I think that's how you say it

00:05:18.160 And from what I read in the IMDb trivia, I didn't do like a deep dive. These two men didn't sit down

00:05:23.960 and write the movie together. Mark Norman wrote a movie and then Tom Stoppard like rewrote almost

00:05:29.480 entirely. And now there's a play version that's credited to only him, I think. It's directed by

00:05:34.760 John Madden. And well, actually, first, before we get into the movie, could each of you say what

00:05:41.940 your experience was? Had you seen this movie before? Do you remember the first time you

00:05:45.480 watched it what is your relationship to this movie um i will go first because i have a very

00:05:51.320 deep and loving relationship with this movie um i've seen shakespeare in love probably 15 times

00:05:57.120 it is unironically one of my favorite movies i used it as a comp title for my book um i could

00:06:03.540 probably recite it to you right now if i wanted to like i it's my comfort movie and so i will be

00:06:11.120 on this podcast the unironic defender of all things Shakespeare in Love because I think it

00:06:15.720 is a masterpiece and I love it I haven't yeah I haven't watched it since 1998 when I um that was

00:06:27.000 my heavy movie period where I had a movie theater within three blocks of my house the dream and I

00:06:33.800 would that's where I got comfortable going to movies by myself but I watched Shakespeare in

00:06:37.320 love during that period and I remember enjoying it I definitely remembered Kit Marlowe because

00:06:42.780 um that was also my uh ideal husband phase so uh um that movie I can talk about but uh I just love

00:06:55.200 the way you worded that sounds like Kit Marlowe was your ideal husband right you mean you mean

00:06:59.560 Rupert Everett Rupert Everett was it who is not called the ideal husband yes uh yes uh Rupert

00:07:06.820 it was was in a oliver or no sorry oscar wild um adaptation of an ideal husband and this is before

00:07:15.620 he um came out and i had zero attraction to him i just really like him um but i watched that movie

00:07:23.020 too many times during that period and so uh that is the big thing that i remember and and having

00:07:29.260 read that he didn't want to be credited and doesn't like the movie uh amused me to no end when i was

00:07:36.320 reading the IMDb trivia notes which was interesting because that was one of the things I remembered

00:07:41.060 about the movie too like Allison when your book was when I first heard about your book I'm like

00:07:44.640 oh Christopher Marlowe like Rupert Everett from Shakespeare a movie that he apparently doesn't

00:07:49.560 want anyone to know he was involved with which is interesting I fall somewhere between the two of

00:07:53.860 you I think in the sense of this movie was very important to me when I first watched it because

00:07:59.580 I was a theater kid who spent all my teenage years volunteering at Shakespeare in the park,

00:08:06.940 handing out programs, like to the point that I probably still have most of Midsummer Night's

00:08:10.160 Dream memorized. And then seeing a movie about people putting on a play like this was around,

00:08:15.920 I watched it when I myself kind of moved from being more of an actor to more of like

00:08:19.920 a playwright slash director of a number of plays cast entirely with my friends.

00:08:26.660 um so it was very moving to me to see a movie that was about putting on a play and then when

00:08:32.420 we go through the summary the part at the end where just seems like the play isn't gonna work

00:08:35.380 and then it suddenly does I remember just like weeping where I'm just like theater is magic so

00:08:40.640 but I don't know if I've watched it since then like I'm sure I watched it a couple times

00:08:45.500 since I first saw it but I don't I'm pretty sure I haven't watched in the last

00:08:49.940 20 years so it was interesting to revisit it and remember like the soundtrack like I list I would

00:08:56.380 listen to that while I was writing just to be like I'm like William Shakespeare so the music

00:09:02.000 was like a big sense memory for me okay so what I have is a summary of the movie so I'm just going

00:09:08.760 to kind of do my best to work my way through this and please just interrupt me whenever you need to

00:09:13.760 rant or interrupt or say anything about it but first I'm going to read the um what comes on the

00:09:20.540 screen at the beginning, like in a Star Wars movie. So London, 1593. Lana, I don't know if

00:09:27.240 you want to scream about that yet, but we'll wait until things in Congress of 1593 happen. Okay.

00:09:32.860 At this point, I'm watching it going, I'm going to take really good notes because

00:09:36.440 Anne and Alison know this period way better than me. So I am still innocent and un-ranty at this

00:09:42.480 point. Okay. You're just like London, 1593. Great. Love it. Okay. And then what it says is in the

00:09:48.880 glory days of the elizabethan theater two play houses were fighting it out for writers and

00:09:53.960 audiences north of the city was the curtain theater home to england's most famous actor

00:09:58.800 richard burbage across the river was the competition built by philip henslow a businessman

00:10:04.200 with a cash flow problem dot dot dot now are those real people allison those sure are real people

00:10:13.100 oh okay did Philip Henslow have a cash flow problem no but it's a nice detail for a movie

00:10:19.960 and it's a great role for Geoffrey Rush okay okay stakes it's exactly what it is it's exactly here

00:10:27.200 are some stakes here is a conflict that we made up right right so the movie starts off and I have

00:10:32.120 to also just say watching this I remembered what I also kind of remembered from when I watched it

00:10:37.260 the first time where I was just like okay we've got Gwyneth Paltrow we've got Joseph Fiennes and

00:10:41.300 we'll get to that and then we've got like 17 50 year old British men with beards and I remember

00:10:48.900 every time like this time was the only time I've watched this movie like taking notes on it I'm

00:10:52.640 just like oh that's that same like there's they all look so much the same to me this is as we

00:10:57.220 continue doing these episodes an ongoing issue with me of telling men apart in movies when they

00:11:02.220 are dressed the same they also weren't as famous as they are now like most of those people were

00:11:07.600 still british character actors yeah and now you look at it as like oh simon cowell four weddings

00:11:12.660 and a funeral oh yeah jeffrey rush i mean jeffrey rush i know yeah at this point i do i could always

00:11:18.380 tell him but i don't know if that's because retroactively i'm like oh pirates of the caribbean

00:11:21.740 but um so there's all these men and so the first scene is just a couple of these men and so what

00:11:27.460 is happening so we're backstage of the rose an elizabethan theater where there's more drama

00:11:31.960 backstage than there is on stage the owner of the rose philip henslow played by jeffrey rush

00:11:37.500 um is being tortured like literally his feet are in like a thing like with a fire in it he's being

00:11:44.240 tortured by his financier sir mr hugh fennyman um because philip henslow owes him money um they

00:11:54.040 were holding his feet to the fire literally literally nudge nudge oh yes clever yeah no

00:12:02.100 i'm so sorry and that's a really important point lana because there's a lot of hilarity

00:12:06.140 a lot of things that are like very funny jokes to um some people so rosencrantz and gilden sterner

00:12:16.280 dad that's for sure yeah and that's that was tom stopper too right yes yeah yeah so there's a lot

00:12:22.220 of like easter eggs in this um so henslow promises he can pay off the debts because well he's lying

00:12:28.900 but well he's is he so he says he's got a new play coming soon that's sure to fill the seats

00:12:34.280 like the way that he can pay off the debts to the financiers to have a successful play so he's like

00:12:37.620 oh no it's cool we have a new play coming William Shakespeare is writing a new comedy and it's

00:12:42.220 called Romeo and Ethel the Pirate's Daughter Allison is that true no

00:12:48.140 it wasn't originally called Romeo and Ethel the Pirate's Daughter I wish it was I continually

00:12:56.940 every time I watch this movie am disappointed that I don't get to watch the Pirate's Daughter

00:13:00.440 because i would enjoy that play it sounds like a good play um so william shakeup is writing

00:13:05.840 comedy called romeo and ethel the pirate's daughter but two problems the theaters are

00:13:09.900 currently shut down due to the plague and william shakespeare played by joseph fines

00:13:14.660 is too busy brooding to write quick interruption on that point um the plague jokes were a lot less

00:13:23.720 upsetting the last time i watched this movie i re-watched it for this podcast and every single

00:13:27.920 time they're like oh the theaters are closed due to plague and I sit down yes they are and it's

00:13:31.920 just the most awful thing in the world so I that's no longer a good laugh line yeah no it's I did

00:13:37.800 the same as with some other stuff I'm reading about right now where I just like and it's like

00:13:41.720 and then smallpox came through and I'm just like I know what that's like um but yeah longer an

00:13:46.620 abstraction exactly so this but was that a thing that happened theaters closed because of plague

00:13:51.900 I would assume like if everyone's got the plague it's like let's make people not we don't know

00:13:55.720 germ theory but let's just like have people not gather maybe don't die in the theater yeah it

00:14:00.560 would be a nice idea yeah i think it was like the typhus endemic i'm i now i'm gonna look it up but

00:14:07.560 um i think it was typhus i don't think it was like the black plague i think it was a plague

00:14:12.680 i know whatever it is they called it closed due to plague and that happened for

00:14:16.820 a year or two um it shakespeare in love is like oh there's plague the theaters are closed

00:14:22.500 oh now the theaters aren't closed there's no more plague and that's just that seems like the way to

00:14:26.920 live a life like boom no more plague yeah it's like it's cool the plague is like left i guess

00:14:32.780 it's gone um but so but so the plague yes that's an issue but the other issue will

00:14:37.380 is too busy brooding to write now i have to say watching this movie now and i don't remember how

00:14:43.520 i reacted as a younger person but i was just like joseph fines is killing it he is so camp

00:14:50.400 and just like committed and like this movie works because joseph finds is just like he makes the

00:14:56.380 brooding so sincere yet silly like he's just like he's smoldering but it's like with a humor to it

00:15:04.360 where i'm just like i don't know who else could have done it what do you think it's brilliant

00:15:09.000 honestly he knows what kind of movie he's in and like there are a handful of actors in this movie

00:15:14.860 who know down to the letter what kind of movie they're in and they make it i'm not i'm not sure

00:15:19.880 Gwyneth Paltrow knows what kind of movie she's making but I don't think she ever does having

00:15:24.860 seen her episode of The Chef Show where she didn't even know she was in Spider-Man right

00:15:31.100 but the the tone of this movie and like we'll discuss the IMDb trivia and stuff later but I

00:15:38.020 think Joseph Fiennes like I remember liking him in this movie and being like who's this guy I want

00:15:43.460 to see him do other stuff and he did like Elizabeth and then like nothing else until Handmaid's Tale

00:15:47.460 and I was like um really but I was just it's just a perfect match of like actor and character like

00:15:53.300 he doesn't take it too seriously like his brooding is so over the top but yet smoldering at the same

00:15:58.980 time like it's not anyway so the first shot of him is just like brooding and like oh my god this

00:16:04.760 guy's good in this movie he was Rafe's brother like that's what we all knew him as when he came

00:16:11.360 out he wasn't anybody he was just Rafe's brother yeah yeah and I think it's wild and I know this

00:16:16.840 is just contractual that at the end he's second build in this movie as a Gwyneth Paltrow is the

00:16:22.140 main character which is not true she was the main draw after seven it's true she was the more famous

00:16:28.240 person it's right it's like if this was like Catherine Hepburn or whatever she'd come first

00:16:31.940 but he just like this movie sinks or swims because of him and I think it he's so perfect so he's

00:16:38.920 brooding he's brooding and he's wearing is he I don't know I have to bring this up a single pearl

00:16:44.300 earring yes numerous men in this movie wear one dangly earring and it's so distracting to me

00:16:50.900 because when they move their head it just dangles around so i that was a question i had allison

00:16:55.860 could you explain about the single pearl dangly earring please i don't know if i can explain it

00:17:00.920 but i can validate it because and previewed this question for me and so i went googling

00:17:07.060 elizabethan man's single pearl earring and there are tons and tons of like official portraits of

00:17:13.020 dudes wearing that earring like there's a a portrait of sir walter raleigh of raleigh north

00:17:19.020 carolina wearing what i swear is the same earring that one of the characters in this movie wears

00:17:23.580 and i was really excited about it because like this movie doesn't give a damn about historical

00:17:28.740 accuracy but it's like we're gonna have this one weird earring we're gonna make sure it's like this

00:17:33.420 was that this is what's happening like men in 1593 are just like here's what we're wearing

00:17:38.620 one pearl earring well that one famous portrait of shakespeare the only one that anyone ever

00:17:43.380 sees he's got one little it's one earring and it's like more tasteful he like toned it down

00:17:48.120 for the famous portrait is his head turned could he have been wearing two earrings

00:17:52.100 i can look while we talk and we'll we'll confirm the conspiracy well now it's like you do not have

00:18:00.100 his his official portrait memorized but it is not in my living room no but like if the movie

00:18:05.760 was entirely based on like people were one earring it's like ma'am that's a that's a portrait of a

00:18:10.940 side of a person's head he it is hidden by his bad hair in the portrait okay do not have

00:18:18.860 confirmation okay but this was this was a thing that's happening men were wearing one earring

00:18:22.920 and they looked fabulous and this movie there probably at least there's a scene at the end of

00:18:28.920 it where one character is like striding purposely through the streets of london and his earring is

00:18:33.500 just like boobity-boobity-boobity-boobity the whole time. I'm so distracted. I'm like,

00:18:37.540 he looks so serious and mean and his earring is just like boobity-boobity. Anyway, so bring that

00:18:42.700 back is I think what we're all saying. Bring back one single earring for all genders. And make sure 1.00

00:18:46.820 Anne does that sound effect. When you're walking, yeah. Boobity-boobity. So William Shakespeare,

00:18:52.600 he is too busy brooding to write. There's like a little opening montage. He's like writing with

00:18:56.020 by hand with his like quill pen, tossing paper to the side. I think apparently there's like

00:19:01.840 little Easter eggs there one of the pieces of paper he throws next to a skull and it's like

00:19:05.300 because he's gonna write Hamlet one day anyway so he can't write he never washed his hands ever

00:19:11.280 there's just ink in every crevice of his hand and it bothers me every time that was a thing I

00:19:16.480 remember also from watching this as a young teenage playwright where I was like wow imagine

00:19:21.640 having to write by hand like there's a scene where he's writing and then he like cracks his

00:19:25.000 knuckles i'm like oh wow writing by hand instead of by computer how wild um but yeah he gets his

00:19:32.560 ink all over his hand that is true um definitely want to point out that um being an author who has

00:19:39.040 tried to write during a plague year it's it's very very accurate you know what fair yeah and

00:19:45.620 lana was that because you didn't have a muse you know i didn't even think of that why did you not

00:19:53.260 suggest that all the times we discussed it you should have asked your neighborhood apothecary

00:19:57.680 he would have told you exactly and that leads us right beautifully into the next scene where

00:20:01.300 william shakespeare broods his way over to the neighborhood apothecary who is here being sort

00:20:06.380 of like a life coach slash therapist who's just like and it's a quote-unquote hilarious sequence

00:20:13.520 where he's talking about like my quill it just won't whatever and then the apothecary thinks

00:20:18.340 he's talking about erectile dysfunction but he's talking about he can't write and there's a lot of

00:20:22.620 like is your quill I don't know Allison you have the movie memorized like what's one of the jokes

00:20:26.600 oh god I I just fully block out that scene every time the whole scene is just like it just it just

00:20:34.240 won't erupt with you know passion and he's like oh well what about your wife and this is where

00:20:39.580 we learned William Shakespeare has a wife named Anne Hathaway who when I first watched this movie

00:20:46.000 was like yes that I remember historical people called Anne because that is important to me

00:20:50.200 because everybody in historical England is named Anne and that's important to me anyway

00:20:55.940 and then when the princess diaries came out Anne Hathaway the contemporary young modern day person

00:21:01.380 I was like her name's Anne Hathaway like Shakespeare's wife but now it's flipped in my head

00:21:05.080 now immediately I think Anne Hathaway from the princess diaries so like she has become

00:21:10.300 anyway so Shakespeare has a wife and twins back in Stratford-upon-Avon and they very quickly

00:21:17.100 have him explain like oh yeah we're basically separated like she's older than me which makes

00:21:22.900 her like not as important um there's twins but he's just gonna like I have a wife but like

00:21:28.280 but you know we're we're like consciously uncoupled and like let's move on with the movie

00:21:33.680 and I was like whoa that's just like later on the wife is mentioned again in a plot twist way

00:21:40.160 but like what are your thoughts about the way that they quickly dismiss the fact that he like

00:21:45.240 has a wife and children I mean I feel like they put this moment in the movie for people like me

00:21:51.080 who would be yelling through the entire film every time Gwyneth Paltrow shows up you have

00:21:55.300 a wife William Shakespeare what are you doing so like I he's a is he a bad husband yes is it kind 0.98

00:22:02.960 of a piece of crap yeah we're not going to talk about it in this movie but like at least they 0.95

00:22:07.040 acknowledge it so I appreciate that well and I think they kind of did that to underline the fact 0.99

00:22:13.700 that it's the later things that come where it's not just that she's getting married like marriage

00:22:20.200 is not a barrier here it's that she's also leaving so I think it's that setup for um there's a lot

00:22:27.680 more to this like I think he might be a cad but I think they're also trying to set that up that

00:22:33.080 that the departure is just as key to the story right and it's a right it's a time and a place

00:22:38.240 where like yeah you're married but like and here's my mistress and she's also married it's like that's

00:22:43.180 kind of not strange to them well kind of a big move to the wife who can't really have a mistress

00:22:49.980 because she's home with the three kids yeah one of whom is like I don't know if it's at this time

00:22:54.180 there's that book you read it um Hamnet about his son who dies of plague yeah he's got the twins and

00:23:01.080 then an older daughter and wife is home with all of them and Shakespeare's just out with his one 0.95

00:23:06.060 goofy ass earring at the apothecary paying no attention to his children like dramatically I 0.93

00:23:12.360 don't remember this but I'm imagining in my head like lying back on the sofa like he's in a Freudian 0.98

00:23:16.780 session just being like oh my quill won't work so it's like it feels kind of like a New Yorker

00:23:22.620 cartoon where like the punchline is a dick yes absolutely and so then the guy's like well here's

00:23:28.080 what I'm going to give you and it's like a bracelet shaped like a snake which is cute um and then

00:23:33.900 there's a piece of paper inside of it that says William Shakespeare um that becomes important

00:23:38.160 later and so they're like here is this bracelet give it to your muse and then you can write again

00:23:44.660 or something like that and so he's just sort of like what is it just like you know like a baby

00:23:51.760 duck just imprinting he just like goes around and like literally the first woman he sees is

00:23:55.160 Rosaline who is the seamstress to actor William Burbage one of our 50 year old British men with

00:24:03.240 beards. William Burbage is the famous actor from the other theater. And so William Shakespeare has

00:24:08.540 promised Burbage that he's going to write him a play, because then he'll become partners in his

00:24:14.200 theater. So he's promised a play to both Henslow and Burbage, which is some double dealing.

00:24:20.140 But he can't write any play anyway. So he gives a snake bracelet to Rosaline, because that's

00:24:25.360 the first woman he sees, as far as I can tell. In case people don't know, can you explain why

00:24:31.320 it's hilarious that her name is Rosaline, the woman that he falls in love with at the beginning

00:24:34.640 of this movie. It's hilarious. Anybody who's never been in a high school English class knows

00:24:41.380 why that is hilarious. Yeah, so Rosaline, not played by Gwyneth Paltrow, I just want to point

00:24:48.980 out. No, sadly. Yeah, yeah. So you go into this movie, you're like, this movie stars Gwyneth

00:24:53.560 Paltrow, and it's a love story. So when he meets Rosaline, a woman named after the famously

00:24:58.280 discarded, not even in the play character from Romeo and Juliet. Anyway, meanwhile, Viola de

00:25:05.840 Lesseps played by Gwyneth Paltrow. And as I wrote this, it's going to sort of, I tried to write this

00:25:14.160 good summary and it just sort of gets to a point where I just start calling her Queen Judi Dench

00:25:17.860 because it's Dame Judi Dench is playing Queen Elizabeth in a famous performance that's like,

00:25:23.460 she's on screen for something like five minutes and it's like the shortest performance to ever

00:25:27.580 get an oscar and that's because the movie was produced by the weinstein brothers but anyway

00:25:32.540 she does a good job performing in it um right so viola played by gwyneth and queen judy dench are

00:25:40.060 watching um burbage's company perform the play the two gentlemen of verona which seems like a great

00:25:48.160 play allison thoughts i texted and beforehand i said the most unrealistic part of shakespeare

00:25:55.300 in love is that Gwyneth Paltrow falls in love with him because of the beauty of the two gentlemen

00:25:59.300 of Verona which is a shitty play it's a play with the famous it has a dog in it right there's a dog 0.58

00:26:05.780 in it and there's like slapstick and I think there's like a band of pirates in the woods

00:26:11.240 and like mistaken identity and it's one of the early plays that no one reads because it's not

00:26:15.400 very good what I will say twice in high school did you really really twice is that twice in high

00:26:22.060 school in two different productions. One in a college production and one a professional

00:26:28.560 production. Does a professional production make it better? I have seen Two Gentlemen and Verona

00:26:34.620 and I have seen nothing else. I've only ever seen Two Gentlemen and Verona. Everything else

00:26:40.360 has been movies. This makes me so sad, Liana. Okay, but the thing about Two Gentlemen and Verona,

00:26:46.520 which I've also never seen as a play or as a musical, because the team who wrote the musical

00:26:51.780 hair wrote a musical version of two gentlemen of verona in like 1972 i've lived on this earth for

00:26:58.760 30 years and no one's ever told me that fact okay i'm losing my mind so cruel so the songs are so

00:27:06.740 good in it but i've i i believe they use the book from they use like the actual shakespeare play and

00:27:12.540 just add songs to it and it's so good and funky so two gentlemen of verona that's better with

00:27:18.920 songs that's what we're gathering here the songs are good commercial stuff the two gentlemen of

00:27:24.300 ronnie till two gentlemen of ronnie was a money grab it's like hey i want to write a new york

00:27:28.380 times best-selling book i'm going to make it as generic as possible right so it's like you know

00:27:33.520 people mistaken identity there's a dog and that's what phil penslow keeps saying he's like

00:27:37.660 romeo and ethel the pirate's daughter put a dog in it put like funny things in it like this is

00:27:42.280 Remy the James Patterson of plays is what he wants so there's this performance and the queen

00:27:49.520 is there Viola is there Viola is like mouthing along with all the words she loves the play

00:27:54.300 she loves the theater Will is in the back like brooding in a doorway and she's like oh is that

00:28:01.360 William Shakespeare who is the author and so like she thinks plays the greatest thing ever especially

00:28:06.380 his plays but then after the show I'm sure if it's directly after the show because again this

00:28:11.580 part is kind of not as exciting to me but basically will catch us rosaline in bed with

00:28:17.660 mr tilney the master of revels another of our bearded men um and i put here that the bracelet

00:28:25.160 is broken but no the bracelet not broken yet so he's like oh my god so he was in love with rosaline

00:28:30.200 for in this movie actively i want to say three minutes maybe she was yeah she was briefly as

00:28:37.300 muse and then he's like what what what do you have sex with other people not just me the person

00:28:42.180 you just met who gave you a snake bracelet so he's depressed he goes to drink all his sorrows

00:28:46.960 in the pub where he meets fellow playwright christopher marlowe played uncredited by

00:28:52.140 the very handsome very charismatic pre-plastic surgery rupert everett and he's looking here

00:29:00.540 like he does in what is it my best friend's wedding the one with julia roberts yes this is

00:29:06.080 Rupert Everett in his his finest era and so Allison Christopher Marlowe shows up and what

00:29:12.660 do you think about this portrayal of Christopher Marlowe in this film I mean based on the fact

00:29:16.180 that you love this movie and you wrote a book about Christopher Marlowe I feel like you must

00:29:19.260 be okay with it I am not mad at it um it's not a Christopher Marlowe movie and I get it they wrote

00:29:26.180 Marlowe in Shakespeare in Love to make Shakespeare more interesting than him which I don't think is

00:29:31.680 true but they they took out a lot of the exciting fun marlo biography bits and just kind of had him

00:29:37.820 as like oh fun mentor in a bar who's better at plays than you are and like better at everything

00:29:42.920 yeah better at everything than you are yeah and i mean like i'm just i hear marlo's name and i'm

00:29:48.340 happy i'm like oh someone said the name of the man that no one knows about and more so it doesn't

00:29:53.260 take very much to make me happy just when it's sort of like uh it's not exactly this and we may

00:29:58.740 for a future episode be doing um amadeus the movie about the mozart salieri thing but it is a bit like

00:30:04.640 everyone's just like oh christopher marlowe he's so good his plays are so good like later there's

00:30:08.100 like a gondola taxi driver he's like why christopher marlowe in my gondola one day so it's just like

00:30:12.840 this is haunting shakespeare that everyone's just like christopher marlowe is so great and he's just

00:30:16.500 like i'm great too but i love that this is completely a one-sided rivalry where it's like

00:30:21.760 that one screen grab from madmen where it's like i hate you and the other guy's like i do not think

00:30:26.160 about you at all exactly exactly and that's what Rupert Everett does in this movie he's just like

00:30:30.920 William Shakespeare's like oh I can't write this play and he's like it's called Roman Ethel the

00:30:35.160 pirate's daughter and Marla was like well what about Romeo and Juliet what about if they're 0.99

00:30:39.520 Italian what about what about if anything that would be better than what you just did you idiot 0.99

00:30:45.820 come on get yourself together exactly and so Shakespeare's like great thank you I'm gonna 0.99

00:30:50.480 of steal all of that but the thing is like who will they cast in this play so at the same time

00:30:56.880 Viola who has now become sort of the secondary lead character so her nurse played by what is

00:31:03.680 her name Imelda Staunton Imogen Imogen I think it's Imelda I think I wrote it down yeah maybe 0.81

00:31:10.100 it is Imelda I think it is Imelda yeah no she's great yeah because she's married to to the guy

00:31:14.860 who plays the nurse yeah she's married to Carson the butler from Downton Abbey who plays the nurse

00:31:19.600 in the play so much today they played the same role in the same movie so viola wants adventure

00:31:26.880 and love and like you know it's a very like i want disney heroine type moment except not a song

00:31:33.060 she wants to be an actor in the plays of will shakespeare but guess what she can't be 0.99

00:31:37.460 why is that women can't be in place allison can expand on that that is true women can't be in 1.00

00:31:43.960 plays so they did have like all the plays had in the female roles men dressed as women um until

00:31:51.660 I don't know how long restoration times I plays got real bad after like the Jacobean era and I 0.79

00:31:59.380 stopped paying attention to them so I actually don't know when women are able to yeah but it 1.00

00:32:03.700 was a while everything got real bad after the Jacobean it's true what I know is that there's

00:32:09.400 the movie stage beauty with claire danes and billy crudup and that's about he's like a famous

00:32:14.420 person who had been playing women's roles but then she plays someone who is a woman who starts

00:32:18.460 playing roles because women start playing roles so it was an i haven't seen that movie i just know

00:32:22.660 that's about so and the movie is called stage beauty and it takes place in the restoration so

00:32:27.280 i'm gonna say that's when sounds real that sounds like sarah bernhardt times so yeah so basically

00:32:35.700 women can't be actors but also i want to say um and you can correct me if i'm wrong but i don't 1.00

00:32:41.380 think very rich people could be actors in general because acting was like a dirtbag job if you if 1.00

00:32:46.700 you were rich you could go to plays and you could enjoy the plays but yeah uh it was definitely a

00:32:51.100 dirtbag job for sure you were not going into that for the money you were not going to be famous

00:32:55.380 yeah it's been a dirtbag job for a very very long time it's only recently that there's any form of

00:33:01.500 celebrity about it yeah so the fact that Gwyneth wants to like a be an act well that she wants to

00:33:07.580 be an actor it's like she can't because she's a woman but also like she's a rich person so even

00:33:11.380 if she was like a rich man it would be like no you can't be an actor like this is this is not a

00:33:17.080 job for a fancy person like you Gwyneth but she just loves the theater and the magic of it

00:33:22.100 um meanwhile auditions not going well for Will and Henslow everyone shows up saying the same

00:33:28.640 it's a kit marlo monologue yes they all come in and they all say like and that's my favorite part

00:33:34.160 of the whole movie because that's exactly what it's like studying any kind of theater mother

00:33:38.680 like here's the one monologue from marlo you need to know and that's all you don't need to read

00:33:42.640 anything else when that's also in my experience my experience as a play director in my university

00:33:49.880 days that is also what would happen everyone would come in and just be like we're gonna say

00:33:53.920 the same monologue as everyone else said it's like really um anyway so they're just and it's

00:33:59.480 also kip marlow who's like he's in this one-sided rivalry and then viola shows up her hair hidden

00:34:04.900 under a hat wearing little tiny pantaloons they're so small i want to know where she got

00:34:12.880 them because they are ridiculous yeah yeah so we're gonna get into the pantaloons but like

00:34:18.060 in terms of like the side you know let's get into it so the men in this film are wearing and is that

00:34:23.900 even the right word I don't know but they're wearing these giant voluminous like ends at the

00:34:29.440 knee pantaloons I have thoughts and here is my thought and it is because I hate every single

00:34:36.180 period drama when they do this is that they give the historically accurate costume to the villain

00:34:41.580 and then they give all of the good characters like a kind of moderned up version of what that

00:34:46.320 costume would have looked like because the only person whose costume is like looks good in this

00:34:51.780 movie like right on is colin firth who plays the villain he's very like ridiculous but it is

00:34:56.760 really very impressive yeah it's very like frilly lots of details but yeah but i have to say

00:35:02.440 they do wear pantaloons if you look at like um rain for instance the tv show they're all wearing

00:35:08.840 like leather pants like leather jeans yeah they get closer than rain which is like oh 16th century

00:35:15.860 homecoming dresses yeah exactly exactly but like they're wearing i get it that like everyone's not

00:35:23.500 going all the way but like will is wearing voluminous pantaloons and when he goes running

00:35:28.420 they are all akimbo they're just like flopping all around action pantaloons akimbo yeah and then

00:35:38.460 if you compare this well if you watch this um at the same time as the elizabeth movie with

00:35:45.380 that came out weirdly the same year weirdly also stars joseph fines as a love interest who weirdly

00:35:50.620 is married and that becomes a plot point far later in the movie than it should um his pantaloons in

00:35:56.660 that are even bigger and i was like oh i can't this is these are too big i can't deal with these

00:36:01.640 these are this is a step too big these pantaloons which are probably more accurate but he also does

00:36:05.500 running in that movie so just for like in the year 1998 joseph fines it was just like who can

00:36:11.920 wear these giant pants this guy so i wonder if he put it in his contract going forward like

00:36:17.920 we'll run in pantaloons but only up to this size like anything beyond this isn't

00:36:22.560 anyways like when it shows up in like hot pants they're like the denim mini skirt of pantaloons

00:36:30.480 they're like three inches long they're like daisy duke pantaloons yeah so she's like hey it's me i'm

00:36:35.760 totally a man don't worry about it totally convincing all my hair would totally fit inside

00:36:40.960 this tiny hat don't worry about it anyway so she shows up in disguise no mustache at this point

00:36:46.160 um it's a bad disguise yeah and she's on the stage and she's like i'm here to read a monologue from

00:36:51.840 the greatest play by the most amazing playwright and will is like oh yeah i know and then she's

00:36:56.800 like william shakespeare and he's like me and then she says one of the beautiful plays from

00:37:01.600 his famous play the two gentlemen of verona fine i will allow it and then she her acting talent is

00:37:12.600 such that will is just like totally entranced he's like take off your hat i'm not sure why that's his

00:37:17.140 like thing but he's like take off your hat and she's like i can't take off my hat because then

00:37:20.920 you know i'm a woman and then she runs off in her little pantaloons um he chases her

00:37:25.480 they're running um she gets onto okay I'm using the word gondola but it's like a water taxi

00:37:33.900 is that I think they're punts I'm gonna look that one up yeah I think they call them punts

00:37:38.940 sounds like a word I just call them boats yeah so there's a lot of like the boats like the boat

00:37:44.740 taxis are used quite a bit in this film was that a punt so is that that was a thing there were like

00:37:53.940 little boats that people would use to go places allison they still do but they did a lot more

00:37:59.600 then because there was only one bridge over the thames at the time so like if you wanted to get

00:38:03.660 anywhere you would be caught in traffic on london bridge for like forever or you give the dude with

00:38:08.820 a boat a couple coins and you're like finally now i get to go around that big old nasty bridge with

00:38:13.500 the heads on it so yeah totally okay so they get she gets in the boat and then where she's headed

00:38:18.540 in the boat or she goes to the house of the leg her house like the de lesseps house she doesn't

00:38:23.320 know he's following her he is following her um and then he lurks around but she he thinks he's

00:38:28.880 following him a guy um a tall talented actor so he lurks around hoping to like see who she is

00:38:36.200 and she goes he goes to the door I guess and he's like hey I'm looking for Thomas Kent and Imelda

00:38:41.180 is there like she knows what Gwyneth is up to because she's like the assistant she's like oh

00:38:44.680 yeah no that's my nephew he's totally not here or something but there's a big ball being held

00:38:50.600 coincidentally right away and so will stays hoping to see thomas again and this is where we first

00:38:56.460 meet colin firth as wessex let me finish this sentence lana a plantation owning one earring

00:39:05.120 wearing dirtbag who wants to marry viola as a broodmare and drag her off with him with the rest

00:39:10.860 of his household to virginia which doesn't exist okay so let's let's just take this apart so what 0.99

00:39:18.500 what's the biggest thing wrong with this with this plot point lana virginia doesn't exist

00:39:25.480 great point it doesn't exist until nine years after queen elizabeth dies

00:39:29.400 okay okay and about 15 years after i think that's the math i didn't do the math all the way 15 years

00:39:39.500 after this plot point not only that there's no standing colony in the new uh there's no standing

00:39:46.640 colony for england yet because uh sir uh sir walter raleigh's a roanoke colony had already

00:39:54.960 fallen apart once and um one of my uh former co-workers 11 times great uncle brought them back

00:40:03.000 and then it had they'd gone back again and it had disappeared and that's that roanoke the um

00:40:10.120 croatoan secret message on on the on the tree and they never see the the colonists ever again

00:40:17.460 so they kind of stopped going there for a while and this is that period where they just stopped

00:40:23.300 going and trying for a little bit so you're saying that he he wasn't going to move his

00:40:28.060 entire household to virginia to oversee his plantation there were no plantations there was

00:40:34.280 no Virginia even okay and then you have a plant plantations aren't really into the 1600s like

00:40:40.980 well into it tobacco farming wasn't really a thing yet because they hadn't found the nice

00:40:48.600 smooth tobacco because they weren't colonizing the Carolinas in Virginia yet so there it was 0.96

00:40:54.280 still Philip II your favorite trying to grow it grow like the harsher Cuban

00:41:02.160 tobacco down in uh in spain and that was like the best attempt at commercializing tobacco

00:41:10.880 but it didn't reach european tastes yet so then we got that and then and then there's the fact

00:41:18.800 that even when we did have plantations and even when we did have colleagues and earl does not

00:41:24.920 move himself let alone his entire household to Virginia he has people for that I lost I didn't

00:41:35.560 notice it then I didn't notice it till the end when they're like and now I have to go to Virginia

00:41:39.300 like wait what that wait what and I went back and I'm like no that's not how math works at all

00:41:49.360 so I was thinking over this plot point well you had mentioned this issue prior to when I re-watched

00:41:58.860 the movie and so I was watching I'm like the distance is important like later on like it

00:42:04.120 becomes you know it's insurmountable like if she goes to like Virginia like she will never see Will

00:42:10.600 again and I was like okay because it could have been like he has to he's his family sending him

00:42:14.540 to i don't know i don't know and i don't know sweden he's they're sending him to like

00:42:19.980 portugal or something where it's like if i had ambassador to france i just sent him to ireland

00:42:26.500 because that's like the colonial equivalent at the time and it's right there and there's still

00:42:30.440 an ocean in the way and like william shakespeare with his three pounds a year is not getting on a

00:42:35.940 boat to ireland so that that was my fix that no one asked me for because i was yeah five years

00:42:41.860 my cat just showed up just so you can oh hello this is where she sits when i am at work every

00:42:49.280 day when she wants to get my attention right from the keyboard hello so yes so this is

00:42:56.560 basically he's he's marrying this woman for a cash infusion why would he then

00:43:02.560 separate himself from society like he's he's important enough that the queen has to approve

00:43:07.740 his matches he's important enough that he's a valuable match for a merchant's daughter but he's

00:43:14.700 poor enough that he needs a merchant's daughter cash infusion upper echelon merchant's daughter

00:43:20.100 but still so what like that's not why you get cash infusions you don't get cash infusions to go live

00:43:26.280 in the middle of nowhere yeah so there's we need we need the plot thing of like to put the pressure 0.96

00:43:32.760 her on just to increase the stakes of like you know she has to marry this guy and then as soon 0.92

00:43:37.680 as she marries him she has to go away but this is nonsensical um entirely in i think what you

00:43:45.960 just said about 12 different ways he's also the earl of a kingdom that didn't exist at this time

00:43:52.820 so that's fun the kingdom of wessex which is like way back in the 500s so yeah did you but did you

00:44:01.100 see in the mdb trivia that um queen elizabeth modern day queen elizabeth her son edward was

00:44:06.840 this movie came out around the same time he was going to be given his like title of duke of

00:44:10.280 whatever and he requested can it be duke of wessex because i like this movie and he is in

00:44:16.280 fact now the duke of wessex oh boy which is bold because colin firth in this movie not

00:44:23.060 not likeable not the one that you're seeing yourself in hopefully yeah no he's okay so

00:44:30.520 Colin Firth this was interesting as well because the trajectory of Colin Firth's career was he was

00:44:37.040 just kind of like another British guy and then suddenly he was Mr. Darcy in the Pride and Prejudice

00:44:41.360 thing and then suddenly everyone became obsessed with him Bridget Jones like further more people

00:44:47.100 became obsessed with him he's in Love Actually like so I found it interesting I have to assume

00:44:51.880 he auditioned to play Will Shakespeare in this and did not get it and then he got this part instead

00:44:55.620 because he's the similar-ish age but just to see him playing not the hero was interesting to me

00:45:02.280 I don't I think Colin Firth's comedy acting is underrated generally he was very good he's

00:45:08.540 definitely very good like he's he's doing the same kind of business in Shakespeare in Love

00:45:12.320 that he's doing in like Kingsman and I love that for him just sort of fussy person people should

00:45:17.680 let Colin Firth have more fun that's my opinion absolutely absolutely and maybe that's like

00:45:21.660 i don't know lena i think you know better than i do the trajectory of like him he's like becoming

00:45:26.800 a heartthrob and then turning into a character actor like this feels like he never wanted to be

00:45:31.480 the like brooding mr darcy was this a sort of role maybe he wanted to be doing i just found

00:45:36.420 it interesting that i i think your your timing is a little bit off because he did pride and prejudice

00:45:42.240 in 1995 and i i'm old enough that i remember that no one knew it existed it was one of those

00:45:50.880 um it got you became it came out on VHS and all of us quiet nerds started passing the VHS around

00:45:57.940 and that's how it kind of built up but not until it it wasn't an insta famous hit like a lot of

00:46:05.280 the movies are it kind of like was was a slow build and then he had like some background roles

00:46:11.800 and then he did Shakespeare in Love and then like um I think Bridget Jones Diary came out at about

00:46:20.380 the same time and she had gotten the VHS and and it was Bridget Jones diary that made the Pride and

00:46:25.600 Prejudice Darcy a lot more famous than it was right because Bridget Jones herself is like the

00:46:30.340 part where he dives in the lake like that's like a plot point in Bridget Jones everyone likes

00:46:34.060 watching that scene in the book and then it was sort of like it was written around around his

00:46:38.460 Darcy so he's playing the character that inspired the character that was inspired by his character

00:46:45.700 in a show that not many people had watched as much yet. Okay. So Bridget Jones kind of brought

00:46:50.940 that. Okay. Yeah. The trajectory was not familiar to me, but it was just, I was just like the nineties.

00:46:56.380 That's when Colin Firth was like, Mr. Darcy, how weird he did this movie, but I see. Okay. He

00:47:00.400 wasn't except in England, perhaps in England, but this was, this was a Miramax and that's in the,

00:47:09.280 like that's in the, how you get an Academy award movie. You'll do pretty much anything to get in

00:47:14.900 those back then for sure which is sad and the Miramax of it all I don't we don't need to get

00:47:23.700 into that um so Wessex he is odious he is awful he is from the Disney's Pocahontas movie like

00:47:33.360 that villain he is that guy he is just kind of like here's what I need to like he's all but

00:47:38.060 mustache twirling I think he might have actually twirled his mustache um but you have to be at that

00:47:42.420 level because your love rival in this triangle is Joseph Fiennes, who is like wrapping himself

00:47:48.360 around pillars, like looking longingly at Gwyneth Paltrow. He drapes himself over every single piece

00:47:53.580 of scenery in this film. And it's amazing. He's so good in this movie. Okay. So we're at this

00:47:58.940 ball. Will is looking for Thomas, who he wants to cast as Romeo, but then he sees Viola, who he

00:48:03.940 doesn't realize is also Thomas. And she's dressed as a woman and it's Gwyneth and her long curly

00:48:09.280 blonde hair and her gold dress um and then he's like wait and because he still needs a muse okay

00:48:15.940 you know he imprinted on Rosalind that didn't work out he sees her and then they do the switching

00:48:19.720 partners dance like in Romeo and Juliet and like in every movie version of Pride and Prejudice the

00:48:24.520 thing where you're switching partners switching partners then you get to the person who you're

00:48:27.260 like attracted to and then you like have longing gazes at each other and then you switch partners

00:48:30.940 um so it's a romantic switching partners dance and they make smoldery eyes at each other and

00:48:35.920 she's like wait are you oh my god you're william shakespeare like i saw you i love your plays

00:48:40.160 and he's just like you're a beautiful woman colin firth is jealous he sees them smoldering

00:48:44.940 on each other and he's like he grabs will and he's like what's your name and will is like

00:48:48.460 christopher marlowe and runs away and at this point funny joke because he we don't know how

00:48:55.720 that's going to build and i like how that builds him saying he's christopher marlowe and then what

00:48:59.400 that turns into can i also say yeah at this scene will shakespeare is wildly underdressed for this

00:49:06.320 party um he is still wearing the same clothes that he basically fell into like a pile of manure in

00:49:11.820 earlier in this film and the fact that no one is like maybe he shouldn't be dancing with the queen's

00:49:16.740 best friend is like stunning to me but i didn't even think about that but you're right he's in

00:49:20.800 his like muddy pantaloons sort of like a like an off-the-shoulder white blouse with bill has not

00:49:27.720 washed his hands since the beginning of ink all over he's just no one washed their hands

00:49:31.880 to be fair yeah yeah um and that's why the plague plague got so bad anyway so he runs away from the

00:49:38.520 ball but only as far as outside the ball um where viola i guess time has passed he's just been

00:49:45.480 lurking there because now it's night the ball is over her hair is down she stands on her balcony

00:49:49.680 and i like this part she's like what does she say she's like romeo a play by william shakespeare

00:49:57.200 it made me laugh um anyway so then he's like oh my god it's me and then they like basically do

00:50:04.580 the romeo and juliet scene but it's them and it's real life until eventually imelda the nurse

00:50:09.920 sees well screams well falls down into some bushes and then he escapes back home via the punts

00:50:16.160 and then he's up all night handwriting with his cool pen because the play is now romeo and juliet

00:50:20.980 a comedy and it's being inspired by he's now in love with viola woman who he talked to on the

00:50:27.660 balcony um so things are going well for him writing wise but henslow is threatened by the

00:50:36.900 money guys again because how can he do this play if the theaters are closed due to plague and this

00:50:41.500 part allison can you talk about this part they're like it'll all work out don't worry it's a mystery

00:50:45.260 the like philosophy i love this philosophy because it is also my philosophy in life that

00:50:51.740 like it'll work out eventually somehow i don't know how but i just i find myself in daily life

00:50:58.040 all the time just shrugging and saying it's a mystery and assuming that things will work out

00:51:01.980 in the end so that's that's my my heart line from this life how are we friends

00:51:10.060 how it's not always it will never work out trust me

00:51:18.780 so anyway he's like things are going to work out it'll be fine and they're like how it'll work out

00:51:25.100 and then i forget like the town crier or something comes through being like guess what the theaters

00:51:28.560 are open the plague is over so right no more plague that's how it works right plagues just end

00:51:34.840 and then theaters are open again as order of the master of revels but there aren't enough actors in

00:51:42.300 the play uh will has promised roles to various what are they called the rude mechanicals in

00:51:47.980 mid-summer stream it's very much just like the like regulars from the pub he's given roles to

00:51:51.800 like various goofy people he knows including carson from downton abbey who will play the nurse

00:51:56.660 but they need more actors where they can find more actors great luck the admiral's men theater

00:52:02.580 Troop comes by I'm not sure why um and Ned Allen played by Ben Affleck is the leader of them um I

00:52:11.320 believe you have some feelings about this Allison I think this is Ben Affleck's finest role in his

00:52:16.020 entire career it is the only movie I've ever seen Ben Affleck in that I love him and I laugh every

00:52:22.100 time he comes on stage I think the the idea was like the admirals men are out on tour so they

00:52:27.920 can't be in this play but then plague is over they can act in the theaters again so Ben Affleck

00:52:32.980 comes back like kicks the door down strides into the theater like he owns it and he's just like

00:52:39.380 what ho I am here to act and it's just beautiful I love it so much and Lana you mentioned his

00:52:48.020 accent is the best of anybody's well it's the most accurate of anybody's because this is pre-vowel

00:52:55.300 drift so um the group of people that eventually colonize uh massachusetts take this vowel sound

00:53:04.480 with them so the way ben affleck who is from boston talks is that boston vowel sound is the

00:53:13.360 sound the accent that was predominant during william shakespeare's time for the next like

00:53:18.500 next 20 or so years and then the posh people are like we don't want to sound like commoners

00:53:23.800 so they start adjusting the way their vowels sound and then the commoners are like

00:53:28.920 I can sound like that too and so they start like the vowels start drifting to what we know is the

00:53:34.900 British accent so as far as like Gwyneth attempting a British accent and Ben Affleck

00:53:40.900 attempting a British accent Gwyneth is way off because she's closer to the modern sound

00:53:47.240 and Ben Affleck is dead on because he's just talking he's talking like if Shakespeare was

00:53:52.600 in the drive-through for a dunkin donuts and like it's gorgeous you gotta get your donkeys he's so

00:53:59.500 good and his haircut is intense his haircut is like spray painted on it's so short and it's just

00:54:05.000 it's just like the um what's it called the like widow's peak it's just like a v on his forehead

00:54:09.860 his hair is like i don't even know two centimeters long he's so good so he comes in the admiral's men

00:54:16.220 can be in the play um and he's like what's the play and what's the main part and i'll play it

00:54:21.260 And Will is like, the play is called Mercutio, and you'll play the character Mercutio.

00:54:26.660 And also Ned is the director?

00:54:28.640 Question mark.

00:54:30.380 He just has a lot of opinions, I think.

00:54:32.780 Okay.

00:54:33.040 He just wants to be important.

00:54:34.160 There wasn't really like a director role back in these days, because the companies were

00:54:39.900 owned by rich people who could affect things however they wanted.

00:54:44.280 So basically, they were just trying to put the plates on as much as they could before

00:54:46.980 their rich patron yelled at them.

00:54:48.840 okay yeah because later on he's like walking around telling people what to do so i'm like okay

00:54:54.160 he's the actor and director which is another reason why henslow would never have been like

00:54:58.580 trying to raise a couple dollars to like put on a place because he had a patron he could have just

00:55:03.220 asked the rich guy for money sorry i'm not that so what's the situation then with the financier

00:55:09.160 so is the financier not the rich patron no i i get nervous when i see that guy come on because

00:55:15.740 i'm like oh a money lender in elizabeth in england that makes me nervous that's not going to be a

00:55:19.840 good character but they do an okay job but yeah i don't know i think they wanted a villain and so

00:55:25.080 they came up with man who works with money but then that villain ends up discovering the joy of

00:55:31.120 the theater the magic of plays in one of the many montages we see him just become transfixed oh and

00:55:39.420 And so cast as, I forget how this happened, I guess Will told Imelda, who told Gwyneth,

00:55:45.220 but Thomas, quote unquote, has been cast as Romeo.

00:55:48.220 She shows up in a chest binder wearing a boy's wig.

00:55:51.420 And I need to talk about this because she, Gwyneth Paltrow's character is shown to have

00:55:58.140 like waist length, like voluminous blonde curls.

00:56:03.900 And then her boy's wig is like Ben Affleck's hair.

00:56:07.200 like it's the shortest short hair wig there's a scene where oh i forget she tells her maid

00:56:12.400 she's like you need to get me a boy's wig and i'm like did they just sell those okay

00:56:16.400 and so this you know the local wig maker what are you doing what's the plan here

00:56:20.240 right so even if let's say oh this is disproved later like gwyneth like let's say the long blonde

00:56:25.360 hair is itself a wig people wore wigs back then maybe gwyneth did have like really short hair

00:56:30.000 or something she's alopecia i don't know anyway there's no way all that hair could fit under that

00:56:35.360 wig and the scene at the end where the wig comes off is ridiculous I have watched that scene so

00:56:41.840 many times like trying to figure it out like a puzzle like where is the hair coming from I can't

00:56:47.260 anyway so she's there she's wearing she's dressed like a boy and she's wearing she's added to her

00:56:52.020 ensemble a tiny little mustache now too um so it's also like it's confirmed later in the film

00:57:01.320 to be a stick on mustache which I want to know where she bought that also is there like a prank

00:57:07.060 costume shop ye olde joke shop um and then so she's and this is where we get into the sort of

00:57:16.620 like I like that they went to this level they're not just like wow she's so good let's cast

00:57:21.780 Thomas Kent as Juliet it's like no she's playing Romeo playing Juliet as a young man whose voice

00:57:27.760 hasn't broken and there's also hilarity about like have have your balls dropped yet and he's

00:57:33.820 like no no they haven't it's cool even though the actor is clearly like 27 years old um

00:57:39.660 so hijinks ensue so they're rehearsing and viola instinctively takes the ladies part when they're

00:57:47.380 learning to do the switching partners dance as part of the play that sort of thing montage montage

00:57:52.200 um and of course will is no wait no he's not falling in love with thomas kent we'll get to

00:57:59.040 that infuriating to me and that is my biggest complaint with this entire okay please go ahead 0.80

00:58:04.620 it's not okay no good get into it because it's not like the mulan thing where it's just like 0.54

00:58:09.280 oh i like this boy oh you're a woman that's cool too it's like he loves viola the woman who he

00:58:15.280 sees thomas kent is just this actor but she loves him anyway okay please get into it this film 0.82

00:58:21.980 could be such a beautiful queer masterpiece and instead it ends up being the straightest thing on 0.93

00:58:29.420 two legs and that infuriates me a little bit on the inside because no one is like there's so much 0.95

00:58:35.020 gender bending there's so much like men playing for women women playing for men and there's so

00:58:40.720 much potential for it to be like interesting and then it's just like nope he only loves her when 0.55

00:58:45.560 she looks like a woman and she only loves him in her capacity as juliet and like they switch all

00:58:52.220 of the parts around at the end so that they're playing romeo and juliet the normal way and i'm

00:58:56.620 just like it could have been so much more interesting than that even like shakespeare's

00:59:01.300 twelfth night is more interesting with gender than that and i'm just like if you got outdid

00:59:04.920 by a guy 500 years old like that come on but did you read everything goes back to the imdb

00:59:12.680 db trivia for me but did you read that mark norman's original treatment of this was that

00:59:19.040 will shakespeare married to anne hathaway falls in love with a man and it's that's that was the

00:59:26.840 screenplay that mark norman wrote and then it sat on the shelf forever and then tom stopper came in

00:59:31.560 he's like but what if straight people and then this is what i did not know that but that makes

00:59:38.140 so much sense because it's it's like it's a secret gay movie behind a straight movie and

00:59:44.320 that's now like that actually is hmm that makes me so much and that makes more that would work 0.79

00:59:49.060 better too with the whole like oh i have a wife and children but i can't stay away from this other

00:59:52.220 person that also works great with canonically bisexual william shakespeare but when asked me

01:00:00.800 yeah I have in my notes um much like Romeo and Juliet this whole thing would make way more sense

01:00:08.280 if you're Aloe like if you're if you're capable of falling in love with someone at first sight I 1.00

01:00:14.980 guess that guess that makes sense maybe theoretically it also like it's not a good 0.87

01:00:24.100 disguise like Gwyneth is not in a good dude disguise so if you're madly in love with her

01:00:29.800 at first sight as a lady and you have absolutely no attraction to her when she like

01:00:35.860 kind of turns her head to one side and puts her hair up i'm like all right i'm not sure

01:00:40.460 even though what she really looks like yeah then it's kind of like are you well it's the whole

01:00:45.100 thing it's like are you in love with this person or do you just like the idea of this person yep and

01:00:50.340 the fact that when she's in man disguise he has no attraction to her whatsoever seems to speak to

01:00:55.740 like he doesn't like her as a person he just is like oh wow look at this glittery person and

01:01:00.980 like glittery woman in this gold dress like she's so pretty and it only works because Shakespeare 0.66

01:01:06.900 in this movie is such a himbo that like he doesn't even know that he doesn't know her as a person

01:01:10.560 like he's just a golden retriever going after a shiny here's the thing Joseph Fiennes sells this 1.00

01:01:16.420 all with his performance like talking about it and I'm like wow so much is like could be better

01:01:21.860 and is bad but I'm like but Joseph finds you just like he just well he's a golden retriever like I

01:01:27.740 feel like he would fall in love with a ball bouncing on the street and I would believe it

01:01:31.160 because that's just what his character is he's just like so full of passion I've been reading

01:01:36.140 various stuff for the next season of the podcast about various gender things with people um and

01:01:43.640 there's sort of an assumption two things okay so sort of like the obvious assumption is like well

01:01:48.360 gender roles used to be so like rigid that if like someone dressed like a man you're like I guess

01:01:52.620 that's a man because a woman would never wear trousers and it's like well no because there 0.57

01:01:57.140 were people so that's like the first line of and then there's other better historians who were

01:02:02.660 like well no actually like things have always been fluid for kind of a long time and like there were

01:02:06.720 women who dressed like men and people are just like okay it's cool you're a man okay so the fact

01:02:12.100 that he's just like you're a man now like this all takes place over what three days where it's

01:02:18.300 like he meets and falls in love with Gwyneth Paltrow as Viola then Thomas Kendrick's cast in

01:02:23.600 the play it's like you just saw her yesterday and you don't recognize her in this wig and mustache

01:02:29.920 okay um right so back at Viola's home Lord Wessex has decided he's declared that he's

01:02:39.280 going to marry viola in two weeks and take her to the colony of virginia along with the rest of

01:02:45.260 um to oversee his plantation lana yeah we've discussed this um but now there's a ticking

01:02:55.500 clock it's two weeks until they're gonna leave it's and what we see end up happening is like

01:02:59.520 they get married and then go on the ship immediately after is his plan so sorry what ship

01:03:07.420 you know the ship maybe one of the punts um sort of like an uber so

01:03:16.140 yeah so viola addresses thomas delivers a letter to will from quote-unquote viola saying

01:03:23.880 viola says you can't pursue a relationship with her but will will not be stopped he chases her

01:03:32.200 slash him on the punts again and then they have sort of a confession of feeling scene which is

01:03:37.400 her being like i have feelings for you basically and then kisses him and he's just like what what

01:03:42.040 i was kissed by a person with a mustache who is therefore a man um and then even the like taxi

01:03:47.860 driver is like oh that's obviously lady viola like that's not even a good disguise i thought

01:03:51.700 that was a good moment where the like punter is just like um clearly that's like like did you

01:03:57.800 really not notice um i think he says quote a child could see through her disguise and will is like

01:04:04.440 wait what and then he chases after her and they have sex in her house um and afterwards she's

01:04:11.900 like wow that's even better than plays even your plays and i'm just like eee um and it's only my

01:04:19.520 first try she says um lying wildly montage style we see the play rehearsals progressing over

01:04:30.140 presumably the next two weeks this is like a movie with a short time frame will and viola

01:04:35.000 can't keep their hands off each other they're making out kissing all over the place almost

01:04:38.940 getting caught etc um i especially note here he hugs pillars while smoldering at her that part

01:04:45.660 it's like he practically wrapped his leg around that pillar he's just like

01:04:48.780 joseph finds so good he's just like so good um and then there's a scene where like roman juliet

01:04:56.620 are kissing and then ben alfuck is like oh whatever kiss each other and then will's like no

01:05:00.340 here's how you have to kiss and then he like gets up and then there's like who's and then they like

01:05:04.760 say love lines to each other and kiss and everyone's like oh okay what's going on um everything

01:05:09.660 is going so well the play is good everyone's like jiving even the money lender has fallen

01:05:16.740 under the spell of theater he you see him just watching the plays and being like wow theater is

01:05:22.500 great because at the beginning he's like i don't care i'll just like take part of the proceeds ha

01:05:25.700 ha ha i like money i see now how you were worried about this character allison um my having combined

01:05:31.920 five characters into one made me not realize what his role was actually anyway but he falls under the

01:05:37.320 spell of the theater he doesn't just care about money anymore now he also likes theater um

01:05:43.760 and then the play's title is now even ben affleck he's like bro like why are you calling this play

01:05:50.220 mercutio like i'm not the main character we should call the play romeo and juliet and will's like yes

01:05:55.180 and i'm gonna make it a tragedy not a comedy everyone's like what um but viola still has to

01:06:01.400 marry Wessex but first they have to get permission from the queen question mark um that's rich people

01:06:09.620 well how many times I've done this in the podcast like if the queen doesn't approve your marriage

01:06:13.240 then you get thrown in jail I did a whole season about that so like good for them getting permission

01:06:18.140 um so they go to see queen judy dutch and in sort of a moment of just like hilarity will is like

01:06:25.140 well I can't let you go do that by yourself I'm going to disguise myself as a nurse maid which

01:06:28.940 means just me wear a may costume and put like a bit of fabric across my bearded face and pick up

01:06:35.980 the weirdest accent i've ever heard it's a it's a very mrs doubtfire accent which i don't know if

01:06:40.660 he was doing on purpose but it is you're right it's very like hello yeah it was very that yeah

01:06:48.480 so he's like i'm gonna come along to this scene for plot reasons so they as chaperone so they go

01:06:55.000 to a fancy party the queen is there um and then wessex um asks will who's in disguise is like i

01:07:03.560 think will amina he's like has has viola been visited at her house by a playwright and will

01:07:09.100 is like uh yes uh his name is christopher marlowe don't worry it would have been so easy to just

01:07:14.640 say no you're gonna just ask you to be visited by a playwright no she has not like that would

01:07:20.940 have been fine you know a great point didn't think of that great point um so Colin Firth is just like

01:07:27.740 Christopher Marlowe has been like sleeping with my fiancee so then it's time for Viola to meet

01:07:32.940 the queen queen Judi Dench is like why do you like plays so much and Viola the scene is wild so Viola

01:07:40.160 is like I love poetry and the queen is like but plays can't accurately portray true love and Viola

01:07:45.740 is like yes they can theater is magic and then somehow i don't quite follow the queen winds up

01:07:51.580 taking a bet that a play can't show the true nature of love um and the sum is what is it is

01:07:57.860 it 50 pounds um which is like hit tons of money yeah yeah that's like the whole treasury right

01:08:05.480 there yeah yeah so 50 pounds that a play can't show true love and also the queen apparently is

01:08:11.700 going to be the judge of this contest date tbd um but now the pressure's on will's play rome and

01:08:18.960 juliet has to prove to the queen that plays can accurately portray true love so that's just racist

01:08:23.820 mistakes i guess and then the queen to conferth is like viola has had sex i can tell by looking at her 0.85

01:08:30.520 which is a thing that people can do yeah the queen can tell she's like she's been plucked

01:08:36.800 since last i saw her i believe is what she says and conferth is like christopher marlowe

01:08:41.640 did this so then uh christopher marlowe speaking of um pops up again in the movie and he tells

01:08:50.080 burbage who's the right so remember will had to write a play for burbage and also for henslow

01:08:56.640 and he's like oh yeah will shakespeare has given roman juliet to henslow and so burbage is mad at

01:09:02.280 will because he's like no he's supposed to give me a play rosaline remember her um was oh yeah 0.82

01:09:09.780 so this was another one of the why is this in here just like fucking scenes like rosaline it's 0.76

01:09:15.640 just like marlo comes in to talk to burbage and burbage like rosaline is like actively writing 0.87

01:09:21.200 burbage and i was like hey can we just talk about like the theater or whatever and i'm like okay

01:09:25.480 um this is just a casual discussion while your like friend is like actively in the act of like

01:09:31.200 having sex um rosaline is she thrown to the ground anyway the snake bracelet breaks

01:09:37.520 and then out of the bracelet is the piece of paper that says William Shakespeare and Burbage is like 0.97

01:09:42.920 what but I thought you were my whore I'm not sure what happens I don't remember exactly it is all

01:09:50.960 very vague that his manhood has been offended in some way by Shakespeare because of snake bracelet 0.98

01:09:57.920 question mark so I'm not sure the snake happens plot happens yeah great you know what great

01:10:04.980 summary lana yeah it's like the snake bracelet in act one goes off in act three so burbage who is

01:10:12.440 just i'm like why i mean this movie is very much just like paint by numbers like let's get our

01:10:17.940 plot points in like so now it's the part where burbage is out on the hunt for will like i'd

01:10:24.200 forgotten he's in the movie frankly so he enters the theater where ned is leading rehearsal burbage

01:10:29.040 challenges them all to a fight so there's a big sword fight which turns into i forget exactly how

01:10:33.640 a pillow fight and feathers everywhere and then it gets very slow motion and it's very like north

01:10:39.860 and south the british version with just like the cotton flying and the slow motion and the smoldery

01:10:45.740 looks and then viola and will hide under the stage and they have a tender moment where will says he

01:10:52.060 had a dream she was in a shipwreck and got stranded and that's just laying some foreshadowing for

01:10:59.680 later. I forget who wins the fight. It seems like they all just kind of fall asleep or something

01:11:04.980 like that. Um, and then afterwards they go to the pub where I wrote populated by various Madame

01:11:12.440 Tenardier looking wenches. Cause suddenly there's these like women with like big red curly hair and 1.00

01:11:18.660 like white faces. And I'm just like, as a redhead, um, historically wenches always are shown as 1.00

01:11:27.220 having red hair and that's my representation in this movie so uh to distract oh yeah and so the

01:11:34.380 wenches are like hey so this whole thing about like hey thomas kent which is gwyneth in boy drag

01:11:39.980 like have you have you whatever been plucked and she's like oh no your wick yet yeah dipped your 0.98

01:11:47.160 wick yet and she's like oh no and then to distract somehow will is like you mr fennyman you can play

01:11:53.320 the apothecary in the play and he's like okay great um and then one of the drunken people

01:12:00.760 reveals that will has a wife and children viola storms out she did not know that he's married

01:12:07.920 already um which i have to point out is exactly i want to i don't know if it's exactly but you know

01:12:15.240 it's like one hour 23 minutes in this movie and in the movie elizabeth with kate blanchett

01:12:20.220 the heroine learns that joseph finds his character has a wife and gets really mad about it like the

01:12:28.580 exact same plot point in both movies both 1998 both joseph finds both pantaloons i love that

01:12:34.960 and the even in the handmaid's tale the fact that he has a wife is a problematic upsetting

01:12:39.460 plot point so like maybe just don't ever give him wives yeah it's it's gonna it's gonna lead

01:12:44.880 to some sort of breakup of some relationship so so that's shocking violence storms out oh my god

01:12:51.100 i've been sleeping with a married man i had no idea and then news reaches them even worse than

01:12:56.080 this marlo has been murdered so i'm thinking about to start singing a murder song there

01:13:03.760 he's been stabbed in the eye yes like an Allison yeah our expert on Kit Marlowe death so

01:13:14.300 Nor did it in this so although it seems like Marlowe has been murdered and then it's like

01:13:23.440 oh my god Will assumes Marlowe is killed by Wessex because Will twice said that Kit Marlowe

01:13:30.020 has been sleeping with Gwyneth so then he feels so bad he feels responsible for it that was like

01:13:35.440 his mentor and I said Will does everything everything is always about Will always Marlow

01:13:42.620 doesn't have his own life or anything going on that might cause his death it's it's clearly

01:13:46.720 Will Shakespeare you know what that's that's to the one-sided rivalry as well he's like oh my god

01:13:51.460 Marlow was murdered it must be because of me and then he goes I don't know how to get a plot

01:13:56.760 he goes and he does emo penance this is like the most joseph finds the scene he goes to the like

01:14:06.780 darkly shadow lit chapel and he's on his knees like banging at his chest and he's just like

01:14:12.520 all but screaming no like he's just like it looks like an evanescence music video for like 45

01:14:21.480 seconds yes yes will is just like oh what have i done oh no um and then there's a plot twist so

01:14:30.280 wessex god what um people say just as many words as needed to be needlessly confusing to each other

01:14:37.860 so colin firth reveals to gwyneth that a playwright is dead but he doesn't use will's name

01:14:44.640 and she assumes he means will but he means marlo who he thinks she's been sleeping with

01:14:50.920 um and then they all go to church and then will is it's the same church where will is doing his

01:14:56.840 penance and then will sees wessex and like points at him and wessex thinks will is a ghost

01:15:01.120 he freaks out little easter egg for i think hamlet yes i think so yeah um and then viola sees will

01:15:11.160 realizes he is not dead and she forgives him for not telling her that she was married because

01:15:16.420 thinking he was dead made her realize how much she actually does love him and so things are good

01:15:21.320 which is wild the fact that things are good right now i'm like i have i would like to have a four

01:15:28.760 hour conversation with you after that entire sequence of events and she's just like no we're

01:15:32.800 good now glad you're not dead yeah you know yeah she's like i'm okay like you're married but you

01:15:39.620 know what we love each other and i'm going to virginia to with the rest of my fiance's household

01:15:45.780 to oversee his plantation i just like saying that to see lana's face um so we only have like a week

01:15:53.640 together so let's just like do this or whatever um wait something made me think of something so

01:15:58.980 just penance a player said oh yeah um i think this was in the imdb trivia i love that you didn't see

01:16:06.060 it allison because they said like it's sort of an inside joke that the fact that colin firth's

01:16:11.920 character is so just like out of touch with like all the society that he would be like believe that

01:16:15.980 Christopher Marlowe was sleeping with Gwyneth when Christopher Marlowe was like everyone knew

01:16:20.420 was gay yep it's like oh this is not working out for you for a number of reasons Colin Firth you 0.63

01:16:25.820 are wrong on so many levels and I kind of like that as a subtle easter egg the fact that he even 0.73

01:16:32.840 yes indirectly um okay so they're it's back on the affair back on so they're kissing in the

01:16:41.540 theater it's secret again but this time it's like sad making out because they know she has to leave

01:16:47.600 in a week with Wessex to Virginia but this time Lil Jon Webster who has been in this movie all

01:16:54.020 along I forgot to mention sees them notably the breasts of Gwyneth aka her bubbies so can you

01:17:02.420 talk about Jon Webster either of you Jon Webster is my baby boy and I love him he is also the

01:17:09.300 easter egg for every english major in the house because john webster was like a playwright the 0.96

01:17:14.140 generation after shakespeare and like his plays are that shit like they're wild the bloodiest 0.98

01:17:21.860 most upsetting things you've ever heard of like it's gross and so like when they introduce him 0.96

01:17:28.020 as a little kid in this movie he's like feeding a mouse to a cat he's just like i like the plays

01:17:32.500 where everyone dies and we're like yes you do john webster we know that yeah there's a part at the

01:17:37.100 end after the performance of Romeo and Juliet where the queen is like did you like this play

01:17:40.620 and he's like I like the part where they all got stabbed and truly I've never read John Webster's

01:17:46.040 plays but I always think I've just always forget if it's him or Ben Johnson in this movie but I'm

01:17:50.900 just like oh that kid from Shakespeare in Love good for him do you remember you might not know

01:17:55.880 this in an episode of Star Trek's The Next Generation where they go back to olden time

01:18:01.800 San Francisco and Mark Twain is there and then but their bellhop is Jack London and he's like

01:18:09.580 oh boy I'm Jack London and I'm gonna write books one day you'll see and then whenever I hear about

01:18:15.480 like White Fang and stuff I'm like oh from Star Trek Jack he's he was the very first grimdark

01:18:23.540 writer like that's where grimdark comes from is Count of Maldonado John Webster yes John Webster

01:18:31.780 i feel like i need to read john webster plays because as i've told you both my favorite

01:18:35.980 shakespeare play is titus and dronicus um john webster's play has a werewolf in it which is my

01:18:42.880 fun fact so pick that one up i love it i love i love his inclusion in this movie so he is the one

01:18:49.360 but the other thing is he out of revenge because he was going to play juliet in the movie or sorry

01:18:54.180 in the play romeo and ethel pirate's daughter but then he was fired when um ben affleck and co

01:19:00.320 came on so John Webster mad at them for firing him so he sees them kissing realizes that Gwyneth

01:19:06.640 is a woman because of I would say the um uh I don't know Gwyneth Paltrow's breasts are in this

01:19:16.340 movie to an extent where you're like oh this was produced by Harvey Weinstein yeah yeah I'm sure

01:19:22.260 it was it explains a lot about the Rosalind character too you're just like oh yeah I see

01:19:26.740 you see the Weinstein name at the end and you're like ah that explains a handful of

01:19:30.320 things. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he sees Gwyneth's breasts, as do everyone who sees this movie

01:19:35.380 numerous times. And then he goes to tell somebody about that to get them in trouble.

01:19:41.900 Anyway, but before that happens, so Wessex charges into rehearsal, because he's like, wait, 0.97

01:19:47.940 Phyla has been fucking with Shakespeare, now with Marlow. So he wants to duel Shakespeare with 0.93

01:19:52.420 swords. I made the point here, they're both in giant pantaloons. So it's just a big pantaloon

01:19:58.440 VS pantaloons. Swordfighter ends in a draw. Wessex leaves. But then Mr. Tilney, the master

01:20:06.120 of revels, enters and shuts down the rose for lewdness because there's a woman acting on stage.

01:20:13.380 And he found out because Lil Jon Webster reported seeing her bubbies. I remember

01:20:18.160 strange and specific things about this movie, but one of them is like, I saw her bubbies. I saw him

01:20:24.540 kissing her bubbies is like i wish i didn't remember that but that is a line that i will 0.95

01:20:30.020 never bleach from my brain i'm sorry um anyway so he's they're all like that woman is a woman

01:20:38.160 and then the guy who's playing julie is like me and then carson from downton abbey dressed as

01:20:43.300 woman is like me and then he's john webster sends one of his trained rats question mark

01:20:48.620 after gwyneth and she's like ah and then this is the scene where she accidentally removes her

01:20:54.500 boy wig and you know waist length hair extensions come pouring out and everyone's like oh my god

01:21:00.440 she is a woman none of us knew that um and the place canceled because the theater shut down

01:21:06.520 and viola can't play romeo anyway so this is an all is lost trademark moment to those familiar with

01:21:14.540 um plot arcs but then burbage arrives um and he's like will shakespeare has a play i have a theater

01:21:23.680 the curtain is yours so they're allowed to put their play on in his venue and then as per

01:21:31.060 Henslow it all works out somehow it's a mystery so we're deep into the fourth act of this movie

01:21:38.000 Viola is married to Wessex whose ships are are ready to go to Virginia immediately after the

01:21:45.900 wedding again what ships is he not broke is that not the reason he's marrying her anyway but this

01:21:52.980 is just really tightening up the stakes so will runs broodingly in his pantaloons like in the

01:21:58.740 graduate to stop the wedding to just be like viola but he is too late it's one of his best

01:22:06.780 running sequences in this movie there are probably eight or nine of them i think this one as i

01:22:12.160 remember it has the most moving pantaloon action and the least moving upper body action so like

01:22:17.740 his shoulders are rock steady the whole time but his pants are moving like a sail in the breeze

01:22:23.020 and it's really delightful the pendulum is truly moving hither and yawn um anyway but they were

01:22:31.180 making oh and i like this part too like the sequence kind of starts with somebody's pasting

01:22:34.840 up a flyer for the play and it's like like this producer presents a production by this person and

01:22:41.320 this person in association with this person like roman juliette a playboy william shakespeare and

01:22:45.440 at the bottom it's like with Mr. Fenneman as the apothecary because he's just like really excited

01:22:50.240 to be acting now anyway one of these flyers flaps across Viola and Colin Firth as they leave their

01:22:57.960 wedding and she's like oh my god the play's going on but at the other theater so then Imelda helps

01:23:03.000 her sneak away to go and attend and watch the play where Will is going to play Romeo because

01:23:08.760 who else is around who knows the roles suspense a character I forgot to mention from earlier and I

01:23:15.000 don't know why because this is one of the parts that always gets to me so there was a character

01:23:19.400 who was cast in the show but he has a stutter and it's been sort of all along kind of played for

01:23:23.900 laughs but um he's cast as a narrator and then he steps out and looks at everyone and it's this

01:23:30.040 part where it's just like my my heart it's in my throat I'm like what's gonna happen every time

01:23:34.420 and then he confidently is able to say the opening speech of Romeo and Juliet and that always gets to

01:23:40.040 me but that's kind of the first sign of like oh maybe this play is gonna like work okay after all

01:23:44.800 um but then further complications the boy cast as juliet has had his voice has just changed

01:23:52.060 so he can't act any atlanta you're shaking your head is it because the actor is 28 years old

01:23:57.520 i mean it's a plot point it plotted yeah it did yeah he he just can't talk his voice is like i

01:24:07.920 don't i is that how voices change just suddenly you're just like anyway for like a couple weeks

01:24:15.340 you just can't talk anyway so no no one can play juliette and what will happen and henslow was

01:24:19.980 right there he's like no i'll be all right i don't know how it's a mystery and will is like how

01:24:24.160 and henslow is like but what happens is so um he goes up in the audience and then when he's in the

01:24:30.880 audience he sees violas they're watching it and he's like wait do you know that part and she's

01:24:34.720 like every word so then she um gets to play juliette opposite will playing romeo in this like

01:24:42.380 gender essentialist like man playing man woman playing woman but they get to like declare their

01:24:50.600 love for each other i will say the gender of this is all very boring but every time i go to a play

01:24:56.760 i am sitting in the back of the theater like oh i know every word i sure hope someone like philip

01:25:00.800 comes to the back of the theater and yells at me so I can come on and do Juliet like it's still a

01:25:05.680 dream I don't care someday it'll happen yeah yeah no it's to all theater kids everywhere are just

01:25:11.700 like wait oh the I don't know Lin-Manuel Miranda is like I can do it um anyway so they act it's

01:25:19.960 amazing the audience is very moved um the play is a hit the crowd goes wild but then Mr. Tilney

01:25:29.520 master of revels shows up again oh this is the part where it's like the play going well is

01:25:33.740 intercut with mr tilney marching very purposefully through the streets of london with his one single

01:25:38.420 drop earring being like and it's like them acting dramatically and then it's anyway so he shows up

01:25:44.980 with his single earring and he is like um i'm gonna shut down this theater too you have a woman on

01:25:51.720 stage that woman is a woman but then twist queen judy dench somehow snuck in to watch the play 0.99

01:25:58.200 even though she's wearing a truly gigantic like star wars level like three four dimensional just 1.00

01:26:05.840 like giant anemone of a dress no sneaking would be happening in that anemone no like and she also 1.00

01:26:11.920 had like four lady-in-waitings that were also wearing like nascual cloaks to hide their dresses

01:26:16.720 and it just there's a lot of logistics yeah it was it was a big reveal when all the black cloaks

01:26:22.200 are all removed and it's like oh the queen has been here all along because i bet we all forgot

01:26:26.100 the plot point can a play ever truly depict love you know she takes her job seriously and she wants

01:26:32.600 to judge it anyway so she snuck in um and she's like i know thomas kent and he's a man so guess

01:26:40.640 what it's fine don't shut down the theater and also a playwright has finally portrayed true love

01:26:45.920 so wessex you lost the bet and then she's like i like your work shakespeare let's talk later

01:26:50.820 why don't you write something cheerful next time maybe for 12th night

01:26:55.920 um so then viola goes inside to say goodbye to will and they sort of tearfully brainstorm what

01:27:05.820 can his next play be for 12th night like well maybe a woman named viola is the sole survivor

01:27:11.460 of a shipwreck like his dream from before and then she leaves and will gets to work writing

01:27:17.180 and we see imagery suggesting that viola's ship maybe did shipwreck and maybe she will now not

01:27:23.280 go live with the rest of colin for his household on his plantation in virginia but she will chart

01:27:28.660 her own course and maybe enact the plot of 12th night but in real life i'm not sure what do you

01:27:36.920 think the ending means i was saw it as like that's what will is gonna imagine happens to her next he

01:27:45.600 doesn't know it's on the ship and sails away she's out of his life she only lives onto him as

01:27:51.940 the character in the play that lives through all of those things which is like fine I would rather

01:27:57.800 have seen the ship work where Colin Firth's pantaloons are just kind of bobbing in the

01:28:01.360 Atlantic by themselves at the very end you know what pantaloons become like a life vest and

01:28:05.700 actually he survives because I just figured she died if Romeo and Juliet like if that's romantic

01:28:14.200 then guess her dying is romantic i don't know it is a weird idea that romeo and juliet is

01:28:22.080 true portrayal of love like no that was two horny 13 year olds who didn't yeah of all the plays to

01:28:29.360 be like you know what that way and and here's the thing in this film the scenes the way they cut it

01:28:34.860 like you see with paltrow joseph finds like emoting like hell so you're like wow those two

01:28:40.520 people really love each other so I could see Queen Judi Dench being like that was love but right the

01:28:45.460 play itself is just like Romeo like Shakespeare in this movie is just like I fell in love with

01:28:50.080 everyone I see now we're both dead people and now I'm dead yeah yeah the ending I think again is

01:29:00.060 like a young Shakespeare fan I'm like wait her name is Viola oh my god and I was just like wait

01:29:05.180 were those plays really written in that order oh my god it's like no this is a made-up story like

01:29:09.780 Everything about this is made up, but, um, do you know the episode of Dr. Who where David Tennant

01:29:17.680 and Martha meet Shakespeare? It's not good. Um, but Martha, who is a black woman, because it's

01:29:28.640 like, was she the dark lady that William Shakespeare wrote his sonnets to? And then he's

01:29:33.080 like, Oh yeah, I have children. One of them is called Hamnet. And she's like, Hamnet. Ha ha ha.

01:29:37.000 um i don't know what's the why is the love life of william shakespeare of interest

01:29:43.220 to anyone is it because like he wrote the mystery of like who did he write these things to

01:29:51.920 i mean he has like a bunch of he i i feel like shakespeare kind of asks us to do this because

01:29:58.940 he wrote so many anonymous sexy love sonnets that like he's kind of opening the door to a lot of

01:30:04.180 speculation and because he like left his wife for 20 30 years like he was obviously up to something

01:30:12.120 and we put him on such a pedestal that we want to know like everything about him we want to figure

01:30:16.560 out all the answers and people love to make up Shakespeare mysteries so who was he in love with

01:30:22.220 is I think another one of those yeah it's it's not the place it's it's definitely not the place

01:30:27.380 it's more the sonnets because they're it's the same reason way we explore emily dickinson and

01:30:36.740 and uh jane austen and all of that like there's always there's same periods similar movies and

01:30:44.400 then the more recent emily dickinson because now we can have queer things again um that

01:30:51.240 that we want to know what drove people to have such big feelings it's always it's always like

01:30:59.320 it can't just be somebody's clever creative you want to know why they had those feelings what

01:31:04.800 made that happen so I think that drives it a lot more than than the plays do yeah and I guess with

01:31:13.080 the like the plays are like I'm gonna write this and you know make money for the theater company

01:31:19.100 whatever but sonnets are just kind of like I'm just kind of writing this poem so it is seemingly

01:31:23.320 more personal I think right yeah I think the sonnets at least the first third of them were

01:31:30.380 like weren't they dedicated to somebody like he wrote he wrote those particularly so those were

01:31:35.980 definitely not like putting them up on stage in front of a couple hundred people that was like I

01:31:40.960 sure hope this one dude reads my sonnets yeah right and so that's the whole mystery of like

01:31:46.920 was who was the person you brought them to was it a man and I feel like I think there's something

01:31:53.420 like it was dedicated to a man's name I don't know I didn't research anything

01:31:58.520 but that when I was when I saw that thing in IMDb trivia about like the original first draft of this

01:32:05.720 was about like William Shakespeare's gay awakening basically like he falls in love with a man and I'm

01:32:11.780 like wow that would be a good movie like Shakespeare in Love is a movie I enjoy a lot

01:32:15.760 and also I think a queer Shakespeare movie would be really interesting yes I would like to see both

01:32:22.580 of those movies so much I don't know how to wrap this up because we're not like scoring it I'll

01:32:33.020 ask you both would you recommend um people watch this movie if they have not seen it before and

01:32:40.940 if they listen to this like two hour discussion of every minute plot point i would recommend it

01:32:46.620 going in knowing that you're going to watch something that is goofy and fun this is not a

01:32:51.600 kind of historical drama you're going to go in and be like oh yes i learned so many things and

01:32:56.460 the production value was so high you're going in because you want to watch joseph finds like drape

01:33:00.700 himself over a pillar in fancy pantaloons and like some days that's all you want out of life so yeah

01:33:07.240 i think it has a lot more um reminiscent value than it has like to actually watch the thing

01:33:16.100 i don't know if modern me would have enjoyed it in any way shape or form but uh past me uh like

01:33:24.840 the nostalgia of that time period i think if it's on streaming and you have nothing else going on

01:33:30.600 it's probably worth it the thing that aged worst to me i i would also recommend this movie i think

01:33:40.680 um to people who think they would like it but the like hilarious like the dick jokes are just like

01:33:48.040 oh come on and then the entire treatment of the rosaline character is just like

01:33:52.820 is this what we're doing like i will say the rosaline character is bad like that's that didn't 0.85

01:33:59.940 age well the dick jokes aged about as well as Shakespeare's dick jokes aged which is like I

01:34:06.400 I didn't mind that I was like I saw what you're doing I see you're like laughing at Shakespeare's 0.98

01:34:11.020 dick jokes by making equally shitty dick jokes but like would I be laughing uproariously in the aisles 0.98

01:34:17.080 no I think to me I was also when I was watching I'm like wow like because I really like this 0.98

01:34:23.160 movie when I first saw it and now just how my tastes have evolved I'm like it's rare that I 0.99

01:34:29.260 would watch a movie that has this few women characters in it and this like proportionately

01:34:34.840 like there's Gwyneth there's Imelda there's Rosaline and there's the queen I guess the

01:34:42.060 queen who's in the movie for two minutes like it's just it's so many men with beards and I 0.78

01:34:47.220 have just developed a lack of capacity to watch movies about a bunch of white men who all look 0.99

01:34:51.960 the same I just like can't care about it but um which is not to say I don't know no that's a valid 0.64

01:35:01.660 point because I think I have such a personal deep emotional connection to every single one of these

01:35:06.100 men with beards because like this is my period of research so I will qualify my recommendation by

01:35:11.780 saying if you are an English major nerd in any way and like this is your jam this is just this

01:35:18.120 is a warm hug of a movie in that way does it hold up as high cinema maybe not well no and does it

01:35:25.340 my favorite movies are not high cinema at all so that's not the benchmark that I'm looking to it

01:35:30.620 for I think it's interesting it's so weird that Gwyneth Paltrow was the most famous person at the

01:35:37.120 time that this movie came out and then she then went on to win the Oscar which arguably was Harvey

01:35:41.800 Weinstein's, inarguably, was Harvey Weinstein's influence over Cate Blanchett and Elizabeth.

01:35:48.520 But watching it now, Joseph Fiennes just steals the show. To me, this movie is worth watching

01:35:54.460 just to see what Joseph Fiennes is doing. It's such a performance. I couldn't believe that he

01:36:00.180 was not the one who was winning all the awards because he just gets it. He sets a tone for this

01:36:04.680 movie. It's like the Joseph Fiennes show. And I found that enjoyable enough.

01:36:09.500 strong agree um do you want to excitingly decide now what movie we'll watch next

01:36:18.440 live on-air decision I like it

01:36:23.940 Lana you you'd mentioned Amadeus yeah I I suggested that because that's more my wheelhouse

01:36:30.180 oh no and that's what I really want like some of these episodes are going to be like none of us

01:36:34.380 have seen it before some will be like one or two of us like yeah so it's all just us experiencing

01:36:38.600 also it's hilarious that guy's laugh okay so the thing with amadeus i guess i could save it for the

01:36:45.160 amadeus podcast but so there's an episode of gem in the holograms where she goes traveling back in

01:36:49.760 time to various different time periods and she meets people whose names are slightly like she

01:36:54.700 meets like lena lerner who's like not tina turner and she meets like kenny goodman who's like not

01:37:00.240 benny goodman anyway she goes back to mozart times and that episode was around the same time amadeus

01:37:05.380 came out and she meets Mozart and he just laughs hysterically the whole time so like from an early

01:37:09.420 age he was imprinted on me like this is what Mozart was like he was a guy who had this high-pitched

01:37:13.140 laugh and then I later learned like oh no that's just Amadeus did that and then Gemma Holograms

01:37:17.660 was like this is a popular thing let's put this in the show for five-year-olds so I haven't seen

01:37:22.020 it forever I know that people wear like punk wigs right don't they have like pink hair and stuff 0.95

01:37:27.080 i mean that was hapsburg stuff it was it was high hapsburg doing their mostest

01:37:34.300 okay i will preface this by saying that one i've never seen amadeus and two i have purposely refused

01:37:42.120 to learn anything about the hapsburgs up until this very moment so i will be coming in with

01:37:46.200 vibes and very little else but i am looking forward here's the thing as well um and lana

01:37:51.300 knows this all too well. I am incapable of learning anything about the Habsburgs because

01:37:56.640 they keep coming up in stories. And I'm just like, God damn it, the Habsburgs again. I'm just like, 0.96

01:38:01.860 I don't want to have to learn everywhere, every story. And it's like, and she was like your

01:38:08.500 grandparents were Habsburgs. I'm like, no, why are they everywhere? But I've never actually 1.00

01:38:13.380 researched an actual Habsburgs. So this will be good. This will be educational for me as well.

01:38:16.560 So yeah, let's do it. Let's call it. We'll do Amadeus. We'll be our next one. And it'll be a

01:38:19.760 good pairing i think of like artistic person famous um creative person what was their personal

01:38:27.980 life like etc and it's it's that reality versus the portrayal and like it also won academy awards

01:38:36.140 and i think yeah the guy who's the guy who plays salieri

01:38:42.300 oh great uh christopher lee f murray abraham f murray abraham oh you got me excited that

01:38:49.920 christopher lee was going to be in it no sorry f murray abraham he was amazing he i think he was

01:38:54.740 the one who got a lot of the awards and things the guy who plays amadeus is the he does the voice

01:39:02.760 of quasimodo and the disney hunchback of notre dame yes which was in my book i love i love the

01:39:10.440 Disney Hunchback of Notre Dame and that was when I was like Tom Hulche from Amadeus can sing too

01:39:15.800 that was isn't it Hulse maybe I think it's Hulse Tom Hulse anyway okay so that's a plan that will

01:39:25.340 be our next episode whenever we do it we will that'll be our discussion so people can like

01:39:29.760 watch ahead if they want to like prepare themselves um thank you for joining me on this fun adventure

01:39:39.300 thanks for inviting us this is a lot of fun yeah thank you it was really exciting i was

01:39:45.860 i didn't have a lot to say but i i enjoyed being here i was looking forward to this literally all

01:39:51.160 week like literally since we planned out i was just like when are we gonna do it and so it's

01:39:56.680 perfect thank you so much so again if you want to hear more episodes of vulgar peace theater those

01:40:02.300 are all going to be on um all available through my patreon which is patreon.com and foster writer

01:40:08.640 where you can pledge some money and you can hear that and also so this asshole and other things you

01:40:16.100 get from pledging there but this isn't i feel weird just being all like join the patreon so

01:40:21.900 i'll give you some news as well which is that i am hard at work researching the next season of

01:40:27.740 vulgar history which is like season five i think question mark and the theme for that season is

01:40:35.300 going to be vulgar history international colon scandaliciousness without borders colon tits out

01:40:43.560 sans frontière and we're going to be looking at stories of people from various different countries

01:40:49.180 spoiler none of them are england so we're going to be looking at lots of really interesting stories

01:40:55.120 i'm really having so much fun learning about and i can't wait to tell you and i'm hoping that that

01:41:00.180 season will start ideally the beginning of march so stay tuned i've got another special episode

01:41:07.880 coming up for you in a little bit sometime in mid-february but until then keep your mask on 0.96

01:41:13.520 and your tits out and i'll talk to you soon again promise before you knew what a stock was 0.95

01:41:19.560 you traded snacks cards turns you knew what something was worth because you felt it that 0.99

01:41:27.080 instinct to trade didn't disappear it just grew up td easy trade taps into that instinct so you

01:41:33.760 can build something real for the future with no minimums no monthly fees and 100 free trades

01:41:39.420 you already got this because you are made to trade and td easy trade is made to help

01:41:46.040 download it now the war is over and both sides lost kingdoms were reduced to cinders

01:41:54.380 An army scattered like bones in the dust.

01:41:57.980 Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world,

01:42:02.160 praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

01:42:05.440 But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.

01:42:09.700 This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.

01:42:13.200 Your torch ticks down in real time.

01:42:15.520 And when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job.

01:42:19.020 This is a brutal rules light nightmare with a story that emerges organically

01:42:24.020 based on the decisions that the characters make.

01:42:26.700 This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s,

01:42:29.140 and man, it is so good to be back.

01:42:31.440 Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark

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01:42:36.460 on youtube.com slash the glass cannon

01:42:38.740 with the podcast version dropping the next day.

01:42:42.120 See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark.

01:42:49.340 Oh, please, not that music.

01:42:51.240 That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

01:42:53.340 Could we get something a little bit lighter, some lighter music here?

01:42:56.980 Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?

01:42:59.860 And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jumpstarted all of our love of true crime?

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01:43:38.580 So come and join us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Vulgar History - January 26, 2022

Movie Discussion： Shakespeare In Love (1998)

Episode Stats

Transcript