Vulgar History - Remember Abigail Adams (with Meredith Constant)

00:00:00.000 so welcome everybody to vulgar history a feminist women's history comedy

00:00:13.600 podcast this is our american history 250th anniversary of signing the declaration of

00:00:19.160 independence july 4th super special episode i mean for people who don't know i am a canadian

00:00:26.100 person. So when we're getting into the weeds of American politics, like I need to bring in an

00:00:30.560 expert. And by expert, I mean, just like anyone who's American. And that's who's here with me

00:00:35.000 today. It's Meredith Constant. Hello, the bar is so low. You're like, just any American will do.

00:00:42.260 Well, because we had been talking about we wanted to record together and you mentioned

00:00:45.480 an interest in American history. And I was like, I need somebody with that, please.

00:00:51.320 What if I just start breaking down, you know, this is a Christian nation founded, you know, what if it's all my knowledge is just kind of right wing revisionist history of America? I'm just kidding. It's not. 0.52

00:01:07.520 We're going to get into a lot of that because who we're talking about is Abigail Adams, who is kind of, if you know the play, she's kind of the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of the American Revolution because she was there watching it, but she was not of it.

00:01:21.320 So we learned from her a lot of things that happened.

00:01:23.640 And I will say, so I read a book that's called

00:01:25.280 The Unexpected Abigail Adams,

00:01:27.300 A Woman Not Apt to Be Intimidated by John L. Smith Jr.

00:01:31.800 And it, as I was just telling Meredith before we recorded,

00:01:34.940 John L. Smith Jr. makes some assumptions

00:01:38.460 about what his readers know and don't know

00:01:40.180 about American history.

00:01:41.260 So there are some gaps that you can help fill in for me.

00:01:43.600 But I did learn a lot about the founding of America. 1.00

00:01:47.260 And I'm like, this bitch was right there. 1.00

00:01:49.260 She was right there. 1.00

00:01:50.200 Like, all the things that happened, it's like Boston Tea Party.

00:01:52.800 She's like, oh, I'm in Boston.

00:01:54.180 Like, she's right there.

00:01:56.220 She took her son to go watch.

00:01:58.480 He's like, can we go watch the bunker, the battle at Bunker Hill?

00:02:02.700 And they're just watching the bloodiest war, I believe, or battle between the British on, at least in Massachusetts, in the colony, or perhaps in any of the 13 colonies.

00:02:17.160 That happened.

00:02:17.920 And she's just like watching.

00:02:18.840 It's like popcorn.

00:02:19.460 we're going to see a movie. There are people being bayoneted. I think she lived in a time

00:02:25.140 of such death, such persistent death. You're just so immune to it because she lived, well,

00:02:33.400 she was not, she got every disease, but we'll talk about that. She was an unlucky person living 0.98

00:02:41.700 in a place, well, living in colonial America, like in Boston, which everybody's just all crowded,

00:02:47.020 like crowded around each other. And like the number, I didn't record all of them, but it's

00:02:52.240 just like, we've got typhus, we've got dysentery, we've got smallpox, we've got like everything,

00:02:57.740 everything. And she was an ill person. Let's set the scene though of like where she was born,

00:03:02.900 et cetera. And actually, sorry, I was going to add something about the vaccines,

00:03:07.740 but unless you want to wait, we're going to get into the vaccine. Perfect.

00:03:11.800 Cause I have some thoughts about that, which is actually, we'll say this right now because,

00:03:16.140 so we don't forget. My thoughts are, having read in this biography about how much George Washington,

00:03:22.300 John Adams, everybody was just like, get your smallpox vaccine, get your vaccine. They're all

00:03:26.340 so pro-vaccine. I was like, why didn't you put that in the document? The document that says

00:03:30.900 everyone can have a gun and whatever. It should be like, everyone can have a gun

00:03:35.200 and everyone has to get vaccines. They should have written it down. They were so pro-vaccine.

00:03:40.400 that's like the wokest thing she was pro-vax you know like you could see the protest now

00:03:46.620 because she did get her children inoculated and that was at a time where

00:03:50.580 john was was off doing his doing his independent stuff they spent a lot of time in a long distance

00:03:57.440 relationship and she had to make the decision and get the kids inoculated which was pretty

00:04:02.560 revolutionary not a pun for the time it was still very new and i think i don't recall exactly but i

00:04:10.100 do know i mentioned all the death the persistent death of this story but she saw so many people

00:04:14.720 die of smallpox i feel like some of her siblings so when she was like oh there's a thing you can

00:04:19.240 do to prevent this like bet like we're on it we're getting this done but george washington i want to

00:04:24.340 say he also he's like the guy he's like the founding god of your country and he got all his

00:04:31.000 troops vaccinated he like they were all into it like why didn't they put it in the document that

00:04:35.960 document like people like what would our founding fathers do if they were around today i'm like

00:04:40.060 they would get vaccinated. They would be vaccinated and they would be like,

00:04:44.220 what the hell is an AR-15? We didn't think about this part. It's supposed to be a living document.

00:04:52.100 It is so frustrating the way that, yes, the Bill of Rights are protected and the first 10 are so

00:04:56.660 important because of what they provide Americans, in theory, when they're being enforced correctly

00:05:03.840 and interpreted correctly. But the strict constitutionalists, boy, they drive me nuts.

00:05:10.060 It's interesting. It was when I was doing a podcast, I feel like it was maybe the Thomas Jefferson one that was just like really learning about American revolutionary history for the first time. And I was like, what? Why do we see them as like such godlike, all-knowing figures? And that kind of developed later.

00:05:30.280 Like when they founded America, everyone wasn't just like, yes, you are perfect people.

00:05:35.140 It's more like, I feel like 1800s, 1900s, that Americans were just kind of like, we

00:05:40.140 need to make these people seem like saints and everything they did was perfect.

00:05:43.980 And I think a big part of that is almost this desire to always have some sort of divine

00:05:49.120 rule.

00:05:49.740 Even if we're, you know, overthrowing the monarchy, you know, British rule, we still

00:05:54.540 need to hero worship the founding of our nation.

00:05:59.100 because otherwise the whole idea could crumble,

00:06:01.660 which I don't agree with.

00:06:02.820 But even George Washington, when he says,

00:06:04.940 well, I'm not going to obviously run for a third term.

00:06:07.540 We're not having kings anymore.

00:06:09.360 People were like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:06:11.300 What do you mean you're not just going to rule forever?

00:06:15.780 Really?

00:06:16.700 You know, it was hard to break that.

00:06:18.240 That's the interesting part of the story.

00:06:19.860 I mean, we'll go chronologically,

00:06:22.220 but I thought it was really interesting

00:06:24.520 that when they found it, they're like,

00:06:26.540 what should we call the person in charge?

00:06:28.260 King?

00:06:28.520 and it's like president and then like should this be a lifetime appointment and then your children

00:06:33.080 have it and they're like let's think about it no what should we call the president and it's like

00:06:38.040 should we call the president like your highness like your excellency and they landed on like

00:06:42.260 mr president it was funny just to see these things being like discussed they're like they're

00:06:47.380 like workshopping it it's a writer's room you know where where are we going with this story

00:06:51.740 and everything's on the table frankly and a lot of what we know is because these guys wrote a lot

00:06:57.060 of documents, but a lot of what we know is Abigail Adams. He was saying she had this kind

00:07:00.200 of long distance relationship with her husband. She wrote, did she sleep? I don't know. So many

00:07:04.820 letters. All she did was write letters to her husband because they were apart for like years.

00:07:10.600 And it's funny, there's parts of her story where I was reading through this biography and they're

00:07:13.560 like, we don't know about a lot of what she thought during this six month time because she

00:07:17.460 and John were in the same city. Like good for them. Yeah. And this poor woman, you know, tells

00:07:24.060 her husband, you burn my, you burn those when I die, you burn them. And he said, baby, I'm creating 0.99

00:07:30.100 a legacy here. I'm not burning shit. And I have to say, thank you, John Adams, because we know so 0.99

00:07:36.680 much more about their relationship. We get a full picture of these people and not just this edited,

00:07:42.600 you know, there were 400 cattle today or, you know, that kind of documentation. We actually get

00:07:49.960 a glimpse into a pretty unique relationship for that time.

00:07:55.480 I am so grateful in my podcast, whenever I come across something, when someone dies and they're

00:07:59.880 like, Carolina Brunswick, she was like, burn my letters. And I'm like, no, like reaching through

00:08:04.080 my time machine, like, please don't. I'm so glad when somebody's letters aren't burned. So we do,

00:08:10.660 I will say, the guy who wrote this biography, like, do I recommend it? If you're a fan, sure.

00:08:15.560 but he he has equal interest in like her grain shipment news as like oh my arthritis is in my

00:08:23.060 leg it's a bit bad today as like the actual history so it's like she she wrote everything

00:08:28.360 and if you're into that you can read everything but we're just going to go through the highlights

00:08:33.740 yeah and she does my favorite part i was just like wow this woman okay like she's she's running

00:08:39.800 the farm she's doing all this stuff i'm like this is impressive but like in terms of this podcast 1.00

00:08:43.040 where I prefer to talk about kind of scandalous bitches. 1.00

00:08:46.340 I'm like, she's kind of upstanding, 1.00

00:08:48.900 but then she gets to England 1.00

00:08:50.120 and then she gets real bitchy. 1.00

00:08:52.800 But that'll be a fun surprise for you. 1.00

00:08:55.100 She, and she does some stuff where you're like, 1.00

00:08:57.640 whoa, this seems potentially illegal.

00:09:01.120 But she said, I got to make my money.

00:09:03.600 I mean, she was so smart.

00:09:05.240 She had a power of attorney had to be granted

00:09:08.800 when John was overseas 1.00

00:09:10.100 because God forbid a woman, 1.00

00:09:11.100 you know run things that couldn't be done and she knew that so she made sure they had one who 0.99

00:09:16.520 basically was just her yes man and she would just tell him things and be like this is what we're

00:09:21.580 gonna do yeah i got it and he was like yes ma'am it's a yes ma'am not a yes man um so it was just

00:09:29.480 brilliant she's like it's interesting so when i asked on on threads the other day because i was

00:09:35.760 just like you know having this conversation you know a lot of americans are listening to this

00:09:40.580 I'm just like, what, what do we know about her? What do we think about her? And she's one of

00:09:43.540 these sort of like not taught in school type people. So people who know about her, I think

00:09:48.500 sought this out, but people like you who know about her are just like, oh, she's, she's one

00:09:52.020 of the good ones, like of the women of this era. Like. I would say what we mostly learn about in

00:09:56.840 American history and schools is that she is one of the few people who can say that they were first

00:10:02.420 lady and mother to a president. Barbara Bush is another one. And the other thing that is big about

00:10:08.100 her is her remember the ladies letter that she writes to thomas jefferson and that's sort of

00:10:13.560 the main because obviously history is written by the victors and the white european men so it's

00:10:19.840 usually like you got a box a little highlighted box on the side of your american history book

00:10:25.660 that was like and there's a lady here you know what i mean or like here's a marginalized person

00:10:31.460 and that's what you got and then it's like back to the white men though yeah so the that was what

00:10:36.460 people said also it's kind of like what do you know whatever items i asked and people are like

00:10:39.860 remember the ladies she was cool not as bad as martha washington people brought up some of the

00:10:48.680 stuff with like abolition and slavery which we'll talk about um on the sliding scale of like well 0.98

00:10:55.340 she was of her time it's like she was not my mortal enemy martha washington who i did a whole 1.00

00:11:01.480 episode about do you know the story of ona judge the like enslaved woman who ran away from the

00:11:06.120 Washingtons and Martha Washington like unrelentingly for like a decade was like we're

00:11:10.700 gonna get her back it's like I briefly remember this because I actually I actually spent time

00:11:16.020 in the curator's office at the Washington National Park in New Jersey where I was a summer intern

00:11:21.660 and I had to go through this lady's letters and first of all real hard to read you could have

00:11:27.320 been thinking about you know 2009 Meredith but I had to go through a lot of her and I think I

00:11:35.020 either saw a lock of her hair or abigail adams hair and i cannot remember which and i remember

00:11:40.560 being like kind of weird but cool yeah i like seeing locks of hair in terms of like i saw there

00:11:47.560 was the marie antoinette exhibit at the vna a couple months ago and one of the things that

00:11:51.680 was there was this like small sort of locket and it was like a braid of marie antoinette's hair and

00:11:56.540 like her son's hair and i'm like she was a person wow like it's something that makes somebody

00:12:00.220 tangible yes actually that's a good point i take i take everything back i think it was just it

00:12:05.000 was a long day in the curator's office. And I said, I don't want to see hair right now. I want

00:12:08.160 to get through this freaking letter and transcribe it, which really just feels like busy work. 0.95

00:12:13.860 Yeah. I mean, thank God there's so many American history super fans who went through Abigail Adams 0.88

00:12:20.060 one gazillion letters and transcribed them. Because she was not a good speller. She had

00:12:26.080 more of a classical history than most women. She was very smart. That woman could not spell. And 0.52

00:12:30.880 you know what? Relatable. She made up spellings. It's so fun. She wrote Ben Franklin. She always

00:12:36.700 wrote Franklings, Ben Franklings. And I'm like, is that just her cute name for him? Or is that

00:12:41.180 how she thinks it's spelled? I don't know, but I like it. Ben Franklings. Me too. It's cute.

00:12:45.300 It is cute. So she is, she is a Massachusetts girly. She's born in Weymouth, Massachusetts.

00:12:51.900 Are you familiar with this place? I am actually, my family is from, came through to America through

00:12:59.240 boston and uh lives on cape cod so weymouth is i'm actually just looking this up to make sure i

00:13:06.320 don't get it wrong because god forbid really quickly it does look like her birthplace is like

00:13:12.160 a little building you can visit she is oh that's cute something else that i learned about her and

00:13:18.920 john adams is like in terms of boston it's like george washington might as well not exist just

00:13:24.380 the Adams that's oh yeah there was actually a whole thing that oh no I have the wrong Adams

00:13:29.800 but yeah oh yeah John Adams is is pretty big around there so basically she grew up southeast

00:13:35.640 of Boston kind of near Quincy and also Hingham and so she is in that area of Boston or

00:13:44.020 Quincy named after her mother's maiden name Quincy so she's connected to this like historical

00:13:50.260 family. It's everywhere. Actually, the big thing about the college I went to in Boston

00:13:54.720 is that when you turn 21, you would go to this little dive bar pub that was right on the same

00:14:01.240 street and you would have a Sam Adams across the street from where Sam Adams was buried. I mean,

00:14:08.080 it's cool. It's an old graveyard in Boston Commons. Yeah. So this is like, she's as far as

00:14:14.300 anyone in America has like roots going back. Like she's like, she's tracing it back to like

00:14:18.620 the Mayflower basically she's there's a place called Quincy like that's actually and there's

00:14:23.660 also a place called Braintree yeah a name it's the it's the last stop on the green or the red line

00:14:30.180 Braintree they see them all there and they that's where they live for a while and I was just like

00:14:35.620 that's a fun name so she is I mean what's interesting about this story and is like

00:14:41.120 she marries John Adams but so she's growing up and her family is like a pretty in terms of

00:14:47.100 American Revolutionary Times, and I've done a few episodes about this, like fairly chill.

00:14:51.220 Like, okay. They're like, girls can be educated too at home. Like, not everybody thought that. 0.55

00:14:58.300 No, they did not.

00:14:59.860 So her dad was a preacher and it says here, he did not focus his preaching on predestination

00:15:04.520 or original sin, but instead he emphasized the importance of reason and morality.

00:15:08.900 So even in terms of growing up in a religious household, it's not just like, y'all going to

00:15:11.960 hell. It's more just kind of like, boom. 0.52

00:15:13.220 No, it's some Calvinist shit. I mean, it's some Calvinist stuff. 1.00

00:15:17.100 so she is like in terms of growing up and I think this sets the scene for like

00:15:22.640 she becomes kind of like a rational sort of like you know nerd type woman and she's frequently

00:15:29.900 sick as a child so she she's free I mentioned like Boston well and she's just outside of Boston

00:15:36.020 but like everyone's getting sick because it's like the colonial America and you've got like

00:15:40.520 uh, so many people squished in these little tiny areas and just throughout her life. Um,

00:15:46.720 she's sick a lot. And then this is something I do want to bring up because it affects her life

00:15:50.080 throughout. And I think like a lot of women in history, women with chronic illness, it's kind

00:15:54.920 of like, well, she had some symptoms, but anyway, what was he doing? It's like, she was like,

00:16:00.960 she had rheumatoid arthritis and she was like going on an eight week sea voyage. Like she's not

00:16:07.220 a comfortable person no she's she's like often she's getting flares from that but i think it's

00:16:12.760 because you know when you're sick as a kid sometimes that can trigger like autoimmune

00:16:16.740 diseases and like and she got everything she was a sickly little kid so many kids died in

00:16:23.200 colonial america but she did not she just lived on with symptoms of literally every disease and so

00:16:30.340 although she did not receive a formal education her mother taught her and her sisters to read

00:16:34.080 and write. And she did learn, this is interesting. She learned French. She could read and write in

00:16:39.660 French. But then when she went to France, she was like me, a Canadian who grew up anglophone.

00:16:44.960 The first time I went to Montreal, I was just like, oui, oui, yes. I took French class. And

00:16:48.820 then I'm just like, oh no, I don't understand spoken French. All I can do is write essays and

00:16:54.440 conjugate verbs. Yeah. So she like got to France and she's like, oh fuck, I don't actually know

00:16:58.980 french all i can do is read it but she did learn french but who this little girl she never would 0.96

00:17:04.540 have thought she's going to be living this international life going to europe etc so this 1.00

00:17:08.660 is all pre-american revolution obviously because she's an adult and a married woman when that

00:17:13.300 happens so she meets john adams do you know about their first meeting is this their meet cute it's

00:17:20.160 not it's not a meet cute i you know what i don't know how they met so they met because his friend

00:17:27.860 was like courting her sister um and she was sort of there as probably like a chaperone and so as a

00:17:34.440 girl so she's abigail and her nickname as a child was nabby like nabigail and john adams met like her

00:17:41.760 sister it's like oh lizzie and nabby are both he like was just sort of like oh she's the annoying

00:17:46.200 little sister of this like person who my friend is courting and he like so kind of like kind of

00:17:51.940 like prince charles when he courts diana's older sister and then diana's kind of around and he's

00:17:57.240 like oh yeah yeah that kid so he had no thoughts about her because she's not I mean she's not a

00:18:03.340 beauty she's like a cool person but she no one ever was just like oh my gosh so but it took a

00:18:09.220 while so he kind of knew the family like he hung out with him and so and she's also like 15 so like

00:18:13.920 yeah she's a little kid but with time he realizes like oh she's actually funny like this she gets

00:18:19.920 it she's like smart and like this is the kind of wife I need in colonial America you know somebody 0.96

00:18:24.600 who could like do shit which is wild that he felt that way and i think it's a jane austen quote 0.99

00:18:32.000 that's something like sensible men don't marry silly women and i think that really encapsulates 0.99

00:18:40.500 john adams because thomas jefferson was not going to marry a woman like abigail adams ever 0.93

00:18:46.620 although he did like her a lot but not as a wife you know no no they never would have worked

00:18:53.460 yeah it's interesting it's interesting um again when i was sort of like preparing i'm like who is

00:18:58.200 this person what is her vibe and i asked my friend lana who's also an american and she said well

00:19:02.780 there was a tv mini series of it and john and abigail were played by paul giamatti and laura

00:19:07.780 linney so just picture that i was like okay perfect yeah so it's just kind of like reasonable

00:19:13.700 sensible adults like no whiff of scandal or sex appeal or it's just kind of like here's two

00:19:20.880 grown-ups like okay but their letters for like that time there was some dirty stuff in there

00:19:26.620 there were like innuendos about like yeah i'd show you i'd show you how much i love you and

00:19:31.940 you're like oh excuse me so it is it's a love match and you know what you don't always get

00:19:38.440 that in colonial america but they like yeah it's a sort of friendship where it's like marry your

00:19:44.200 best friend like that's the vibe like they respect each other in that way weird as people

00:19:49.820 for this era like very strange yeah very unusual so things are happening so they get married they

00:19:59.180 she pops out like four children pretty quickly which i'm gonna like go over quickly because 0.83

00:20:05.940 for her for somebody with all of her illnesses like i'm sure it was sort of like fraught

00:20:10.200 having these children but like she survived the baby survived it's like well this is

00:20:14.900 unusual good luck and so their first daughter actually i mentioned her nickname was

00:20:19.640 nabby and then their first daughter is called abigail so when she got married she became

00:20:23.380 you know abigail like mrs adams and so that they had a daughter and their first child they

00:20:28.740 called abigail then she became the new nabby nabby 2.0 okay so she's having children but his

00:20:36.380 political career is like taking off and this is where they're spending a lot of time apart like

00:20:41.220 she's pregnant they're apart she has a baby they're apart like he comes back into town like

00:20:44.420 impregnates her leaves again because he's he's a lawyer i want to say but he's yeah he's like a

00:20:50.340 So he's just like got this traveling job.

00:20:51.980 And then he sort of builds up a good reputation

00:20:54.480 just as being like the adult,

00:20:56.000 like the guy who you turn to

00:20:57.660 when you need someone to do a job well.

00:21:00.160 And there's not a lot of people like that, I guess.

00:21:02.420 No, and he's also in some ways incredibly humble

00:21:06.360 when they are drafting the Declaration of Independence.

00:21:10.580 He says, you know what, TJ, we don't always get along.

00:21:14.820 We're not super close at this point.

00:21:17.120 We will become closer later in life.

00:21:19.620 he should really write this Jefferson's got away with the with the quill this is the guy

00:21:26.440 it shouldn't be me which pretty humble for a a man at any time in history yeah yeah it's I'm just I

00:21:37.920 don't I don't know enough about the like boring background American political figures but he's

00:21:43.220 he's not the JFK he's not the like Barack Obama he's the like guy in the back being like well

00:21:48.400 I'm just doing, filling out these, this paperwork correctly.

00:21:51.020 And it's like, you need that guy also.

00:21:52.960 And I would argue based on what he had to face and being the second president, which

00:21:57.060 is arguably the hardest transition.

00:22:00.640 I don't know if we have, I mean, I don't, the democracy today withstanding, I don't

00:22:06.020 know if this experiment lasts much longer if there isn't a second president like John

00:22:12.120 Adams.

00:22:13.500 Yeah. 1.00

00:22:13.820 Who just kind of like gets shit done. 0.98

00:22:15.680 So he's, so to briefly gloss over the American revolution happens. 0.98

00:22:22.120 Oh, that old thing?

00:22:23.940 There's the, there's a Congress.

00:22:25.620 They decide like, we're going to start a Republic, et cetera.

00:22:28.820 They go to war with Britain and Abigail Adams is back at home.

00:22:33.900 I feel like she's in Braintree at this point.

00:22:35.440 And she's just like, okay, I'll just raise these kids and run this farm and write you

00:22:41.260 a thousand letters every day.

00:22:42.400 oh, I want to mention the courier who brought the letters back and forth to her was Paul Revere.

00:22:47.240 So just like little cameo appearance, literally Paul Revere.

00:22:50.000 Also, I read that she would ask John when he was overseas to send back letters in diplomatic

00:22:56.880 pouches and stuff. And then she would turn around and sort of eBay the diplomatic pouches,

00:23:03.200 which I guess were all the rage and sell them, which was not legal. But she was always looking

00:23:08.260 for like Abigail Adams would not only have been in an MLM, she would have been the top seller of 0.99

00:23:14.840 Tupperware. She would have. And this is the thing, like she needs to do what she can because she's

00:23:19.600 like a woman, you know, running this household, this farm, everything in the absence of her

00:23:25.780 husband who's off like overseeing or overseeing sort of like boring paperwork things. But like

00:23:30.320 there's an American revolution happening. There's like nonstop diseases happening. And she's just

00:23:34.280 like, I got to get my basic income. I got to like, get these crops going. Like she's just,

00:23:39.400 she's doing it. Also, it's like a hard to understate the fact that these people that

00:23:44.140 were the fathers of the revolution every day, they were like, is this the day that we are

00:23:50.440 executed? You know, like we are going to die if we are done, if this doesn't work. So you're also

00:23:57.600 worried about the very very very real possibility of your family being executed yeah no it's it's

00:24:06.860 they didn't know that this was gonna all work and it's the sort of thing like a lot of people

00:24:12.340 living through now where it's just kind of like okay there's like grand political terrifying

00:24:16.160 events happening but it's like but I also got to pay my rent and I also need to feed my children

00:24:20.560 so she's kind of in that space of like is my husband gonna be pulled away and executed

00:24:27.060 like if whether and I won't know for three weeks because it's olden times and Paul Revere is gonna 0.93

00:24:32.200 bring me a letter like so she's just getting shit done and not everybody could and she did so good

00:24:37.680 for her good for her but eventually what happens is uh the revolution side wins spoiler yeah yeah 0.75

00:24:49.400 this is this is what's being celebrated right now I guess well I guess no what's being celebrated

00:24:53.380 right now is 250 years of the Declaration of Independence.

00:24:56.260 The signing of the Declaration of Independence.

00:24:58.320 I will say, so the Continental Congress

00:25:00.880 officially adopts the Declaration of Independence

00:25:02.820 on July 4th.

00:25:04.020 A month later, it's signed.

00:25:05.400 But that's what we celebrate.

00:25:06.440 And I will say, I saw a very funny thread

00:25:08.480 where someone said,

00:25:10.340 celebrating the 250th anniversary of America this year

00:25:13.220 is sort of like when you're celebrating

00:25:15.480 the anniversary of a couple

00:25:16.840 that you just know is having major issues.

00:25:20.340 And that's fair.

00:25:21.500 i will say from what i learned from this book about her is and slash american history like it

00:25:28.260 was it was a hot mess from the beginning like it was so if we talk about like the he goes to europe

00:25:35.420 before he becomes president right yes but okay so when we get to the president part it's just

00:25:41.380 it's exactly like now i'm just like oh this is like everybody like alexander hamilton comes in

00:25:46.700 And I will just mention, she hated Alexander Hamilton.

00:25:50.100 Not surprising.

00:25:50.920 That was her nemesis.

00:25:52.680 She hated A, the British royal family, B, Alexander Hamilton.

00:25:57.900 These were her two nemeses in life.

00:26:01.460 So the American Revolution happens.

00:26:03.520 George Washington becomes president.

00:26:06.940 Is this?

00:26:08.020 I'm trying to think what happens in what order.

00:26:10.120 No, because he goes to Europe.

00:26:12.920 He just like goes to Europe.

00:26:16.700 at what point is that? I think he goes to Europe several times during their marriage.

00:26:22.380 Yeah, he does. He goes to Europe several times. And this is, again, they're like writing letters

00:26:25.900 back and forth. He gets a job in Paris. So he, which is so bananas to me during this whole time

00:26:32.560 period, like because France helped the Americans win the revolution. So they've got like a nice

00:26:37.060 relationship going on. But he went to be the ambassador to Paris in 1784. And it's like,

00:26:42.240 okay well that's an interesting time to be in paris weird timing and wow that special relationship

00:26:48.680 does not stay special very long so this is i'm gonna read you a quote abigail joins him in paris 0.89

00:26:54.600 and this is where she realizes like oh fuck my my french not gonna cut it actually 0.83

00:26:58.880 so she wrote this letter to her niece she says you inquire of me how i like paris 0.99

00:27:04.540 um long before i saw paris i have smelt it it is the dirtiest place i ever saw the streets are

00:27:11.740 narrow the shops the houses inelegant and dirty the streets full of lumber and stone with which 0.99

00:27:15.980 they build she was just like this place fucking sucks so she stopped in london first and she 0.98

00:27:21.360 really liked london and then she went to paris she was just like i should have seen these in 0.98

00:27:25.120 reverse yeah this is and this is paris pre-revolution so anyway so they're in paris

00:27:33.440 and then so she met like uh marie antoinette she meets like the whole squad who's who's there in

00:27:40.380 france and she has to run this gigantic house like before she was you know capably running a 1.00

00:27:44.720 farm with like some servants i want to mention she did not own enslaved people her father did 1.00

00:27:50.780 she grew up with enslaved people she personally had paid servants anyway but then she gets to

00:27:56.280 paris and it's a house with it took her like a year to see how many rooms there were in the house

00:27:59.640 it's like 45 rooms or something it's like somewhere andrew mount baton windsor is like

00:28:04.500 That's positively a dump.

00:28:08.200 How can one live in so little rooms?

00:28:13.240 So while she was in France, though, and I love this for her,

00:28:16.240 she discovered that she really likes theater and opera,

00:28:19.700 like things there's not in colonial America.

00:28:21.960 And so she, and at first she's just like, oh my gosh,

00:28:24.280 like she goes to the theater and she's like,

00:28:26.320 these people, they're like semi-dressed.

00:28:28.260 And she's just like, ooh, like colonial American,

00:28:32.960 like quasi-Puritan.

00:28:34.500 yeah but she gets used to it and good for her she's just like okay this is an art form this

00:28:39.860 is called ballet like they wear tights and i'm used to it now but at first she's just like

00:28:44.400 what is happening like she's the person that comes back from paris wearing a beret and is like

00:28:50.180 i can only go by for it's just not the same i can only go by fresh bread now i mean how could you

00:28:57.360 just go to the store like i have to go to a boulangerie you know she's that perfectly like

00:29:02.860 she went there at first she's just like it smells don't care for this and then she's just like

00:29:06.040 actually this is great it's fabulous and look at my baguette that i have yeah exactly she became

00:29:12.040 friends with um lafayette's wife adrienne so we've got another like cameo of a tangential

00:29:19.240 cameo of somebody who's in hamilton adrienne not hamilton but lafayette so she's meeting all the

00:29:23.840 like movers and shakers um she loves theater she's having a nice time and then what she meets

00:29:32.400 very into it i think i mentioned that but just like briefly and stuff and then he gets a job

00:29:36.740 going back to he gets a job as the first u.s minister to the court of saint james in britain

00:29:42.400 so this is like the american revolution is over and i think this is quite a thing to be like okay

00:29:46.940 we're our own country and now we're going to have like a representative in britain the country that

00:29:51.920 we just excised ourselves from awkward yeah yeah so she it's funny because she went to paris and

00:30:00.320 she's just like, oh, this place smells. I don't like it. But then she was won over.

00:30:03.600 And then she went to London. She's like, oh, it's not as good as Paris. It's inconsistent,

00:30:08.840 but also relatable, I think. Oh, I want to mention too, she was a bird mom.

00:30:13.920 She loved birds. Did you know about this? I didn't know that. I knew she was a difficult

00:30:20.640 mother though to human children. I don't know if she's like full mommy dearest, but

00:30:25.160 oh gosh oh she is so this is one of the one of the reasons in terms of her human children so 1.00

00:30:31.080 nabby her daughter i want my her daughter is like she's like why doesn't my daughter like 1.00

00:30:35.660 why isn't she a nerd like me why isn't she reading more books and her daughter's like i'm a boy crazy 1.00

00:30:40.460 lydia bennett type and that's who i am and she has a boyfriend and her mother's like yo boyfriend 0.99

00:30:45.760 i'm gonna take you with me to europe to break up this relationship and then later her son john

00:30:50.480 quincy adams has a relationship and she like breaks that relationship up because she doesn't 0.97

00:30:53.580 like the woman, like, yeah.

00:30:55.220 And then he goes to Europe

00:30:56.220 and quickly marries someone

00:30:57.560 so that his mother can't stop it. 1.00

00:30:59.820 And then this poor, poor woman 1.00

00:31:02.820 has to deal with the aggression 1.00

00:31:04.940 of her mother-in-law, 1.00

00:31:07.160 which, my God, that poor woman. 1.00

00:31:10.240 I think her name might've been Lydia.

00:31:11.760 What is, I don't remember.

00:31:13.200 I feel like it's Louisa.

00:31:14.360 Or maybe it's Louisa.

00:31:15.280 Lydia did not sound right.

00:31:17.440 I think it's Louisa.

00:31:18.580 I think you're right.

00:31:20.020 And now for a quick advertising break.

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00:34:32.060 So when she's in France, she finds a bird.

00:34:36.180 it's a pet bird um and the bird would serve as a pet and friend to her um she wrote i have bought

00:34:42.560 a little bird lately and i really think i feel more attached to that than to any object out of

00:34:46.840 my own family okay yep she loves she loves the bird she loves the bird um she has to love dogs

00:34:54.900 um she and then when they were moving from france to england she's like well i have to bring my bird

00:35:00.140 with me but the bird freaked out and like would not you know go in the carriage or whatever and

00:35:04.000 she's like oh my god i have to leave my bird behind she's like the kids can stay we gotta

00:35:08.220 take the bird gotta get the bird but then she got um another bird somebody was like well here's a

00:35:14.480 bird that's like used to travel so then she got a new bird so she oh i love that i i do like and

00:35:20.000 then when she eventually gets back to america she's doing like bird watching and stuff you

00:35:23.400 know how so many people these days are into like birding like she's kind of the patron saint of

00:35:28.400 just like you know like like nerdy middle-aged people who like birds yes this this is who she

00:35:35.320 is yeah so this i'm just sorry i'm just looking at this that's okay so she's talking about trying

00:35:40.000 to take the bird my little bird i was obliged after taking into the carriage to resign to my

00:35:44.960 parisian chambermaid or the poor thing would have fluttered itself to death i mourned its loss but

00:35:49.820 its place was happily supplied by a president of two others so don't worry she's got she's got

00:35:56.180 birds she's she's keeping up with her birding hobby i love that so they go over to england

00:36:01.880 and this is where we get into some so just to recap like the america broke off from britain 0.99

00:36:08.460 to be like screw you we don't want a king we're doing our own thing like fuck the monarchy 0.98

00:36:12.180 taxation taxation's the real issue here too but for her to then go over to england and it's like 1.00

00:36:20.600 okay well now you need to go and meet the king and queen and you have to dress like this and

00:36:23.920 here's half to bow and curtsy and it's like excuse me like the the thing that we just

00:36:30.800 but also you're right the awkwardness of just being like the american representatives to go

00:36:37.840 and meet the king and queen after fighting a war against them it's sort of like being

00:36:43.780 the bridesmaid in your ex-husband's wedding or something. You know, it's a little too close.

00:36:54.140 The wound is still very much open. Very recent. This is like the American Revolution just ended

00:37:00.140 and they're like, okay, we'll go and meet the king and queen at this levee. And so the king

00:37:03.940 and queen at this point, it's Queen Charlotte, it's George III. And so here's one of the letters

00:37:08.780 And I'm sure Abigail was like, burn this ladder later, please.

00:37:11.000 But her friend did not.

00:37:13.300 So this is her description of meeting the royal family.

00:37:18.260 So she wrote, I attended the drawing room last week upon the anniversary of the coronation

00:37:22.160 of their majesties.

00:37:23.080 The company were very brilliant and her majesty was stiff with diamonds.

00:37:26.760 The three eldest princesses and the Prince of Wales were present.

00:37:30.880 The king looked much better than when I saw him before.

00:37:33.200 He is a stout, well-made man and would look very well if he had not sacrificed so much

00:37:37.420 to Bacchus.

00:37:38.780 Oh. This man looks like a drunk, is what she said. Damn. The Princess Elizabeth I never saw

00:37:46.460 before. She's about 15. A short, clumsy miss and would not be thought handsome if she was not a

00:37:51.440 princess. Oh my God. She said Nepo, baby. The whole family have one complexion and all inclined

00:37:58.140 to corpulent. Notwithstanding the English boast so much of their beauties, I do not think they

00:38:03.260 really have so much of it. Amongst the most celebrated of their beauties stands the Duchess

00:38:07.880 of Devonshire who is masculine in her appearance she's saying inbred just getting kind of she's

00:38:16.520 just dissing like Georgina Duchess of Devonshire the ancestry of Princess Diana like the most 1.00

00:38:21.240 glamorous woman she's just like these bitches are fat they're not that hot they're not no she's 1.00

00:38:25.820 doing the clueless like they're it's a total Monet you know you get up close it's just a mess 1.00

00:38:31.220 but it's it's interesting this is like it reminds me of Jane Austen has letters or diaries where

00:38:37.480 she just like really goes in on people but like it was just private letters for people to read

00:38:42.260 and now they're public and we're like oh jane austen oh that was mean but you know so i like 0.87

00:38:49.540 this take it's just funny to me that she's just like well these fat uggos the british royal family 0.94

00:38:56.220 no thanks these trolls but it's you know like if they weren't the prince and princess it's like 0.93

00:39:04.140 yeah they are just normal people actually they're not the most glamorous people in the world nor has

00:39:08.400 the british royal family ever been the most glamorous people in the world i say i would not

00:39:14.380 disagree there are there are more glammy monarchies out there there just are yeah yeah well it's like

00:39:21.840 i think people wrote like the same about marie and twinette sometimes where they're like oh like

00:39:25.860 she's actually just like a normal looking person like yeah she was and she was the queen and not

00:39:30.960 everyone's going to be like whatever princess diana so so they're in england there's wait

00:39:39.280 there's another quote i would need to find you because she went to oh okay so theater she's just

00:39:45.440 like hell yeah i'm a theater girlie now i like birds i like theater this is what i do um and so

00:39:53.300 she also has uh so she goes to see a production of othello in 1785 and the role of desdemona i

00:40:03.280 just want to mention was played by sarah siddons who's like the actress of the time um and the

00:40:09.100 portrayal of othello was who is a black character was portrayed by a man in black face because

00:40:16.640 it's only times yeah um and she was just like real she's questioning her own thoughts but what

00:40:26.460 she says is basically she just felt uncomfortable seeing a black man romantically involved with a

00:40:33.160 white woman she was just like this play makes me uncomfortable um i lost much of the pleasure of

00:40:39.120 the play from the sooty appearance of the moor which you could be like you mean just like the

00:40:44.320 bad black face makeup is that what you mean but then she wrote she was uneasy with the aspect of

00:40:49.020 the two characters of different races touching each other she found this she was uncomfortable

00:40:53.580 with this she is unfortunately she's a woman of her time it would have been crazy if she had said

00:41:00.820 something like oh i'm so glad they're finally representing a diverse relationship out here

00:41:07.620 that really represents what the world is like right now because it it was not like that yeah

00:41:13.240 Yeah. Yeah. Fair. So this is like, and she was against the sleep trade. Like she was pro abolition. We know from her letters, like that's, that's the side of things that she was on. And it is interesting, like in terms of, cause we get to know like her innermost thoughts from all these letters. And so she was confused by her own prejudice. She was like, I should be chill with this, but I'm not. Why am I not?

00:41:36.680 so she was at least like doing the mental work to consider this and then also there's

00:41:45.300 a really great quote I need to find yes yes so she went to another thing at the palace and

00:41:54.040 with her daughter nabby and she was just like everyone here is drunk and on laudanum and like 1.00

00:42:02.760 messy bitches and like all they're doing is gambling and like this is a bit much 1.00

00:42:06.280 but there's a really good quote sorry i just need to find it because it's iconic yeah so 1.00

00:42:12.800 prinny who readers of my book rebel of the regency will know as george prince of wales

00:42:18.180 hot mess of a man actually no mess of a man not hot yeah um yeah so anyway he's like 20 21 at

00:42:26.000 this point and so he arrives at the ball extremely drunk and here's how she describes his entry

00:42:30.720 A little before nine, the prince came staggering in.

00:42:34.540 He chatted with the ladies who were to dance.

00:42:36.500 At the third dance, the prince somehow, I don't know how, had a fall.

00:42:40.200 And the first that we saw was he laid flat on his back.

00:42:43.840 Oh, God.

00:42:46.840 So Prinny just like stumbles and drunk and then just like flops around.

00:42:51.040 And suddenly he's just like flat on his back.

00:42:53.620 Classic Prinny.

00:42:55.400 Classic.

00:42:57.340 Oh, my God.

00:42:58.220 I mean, if there ever was a situation where you said, you know what?

00:43:00.380 it's a good thing we got rid of this monarchy it's not it yeah honestly everything that she's

00:43:05.840 seeing in england she's just like yeah don't regret this that's why we're not doing this

00:43:10.280 anymore i'm glad these people are not um in charge of us anymore but yeah so she is third

00:43:16.340 england and then oh yeah so while they're in england 1787 uh she is sort of so thomas jefferson

00:43:24.080 who's like kind of her friend he likes her a lot platonically um anyway he's sending over for his

00:43:32.300 younger daughter to join him in France and the younger daughter comes over with the chaperone

00:43:36.840 and that chaperone is teenaged Sally Hemings ah okay on the way to Paris they stop in London and

00:43:43.480 they stay with Abigail Adams so she meets like Polly the daughter and she meets Sally Hemings

00:43:47.660 before Sally Hemings is involved with Thomas Jefferson.

00:43:53.420 So she meets them and she is kind of like,

00:43:55.460 okay, you're going to France.

00:43:56.540 Like you're going to need some better dresses. 1.00

00:43:58.120 Let's make over montage for both of you. 1.00

00:44:01.460 So she gets them all ready to go to Paris. 0.95

00:44:04.960 She just wrote like, oh, Polly, she's so cute.

00:44:06.780 And this is a sort of situation where Thomas Jefferson

00:44:08.940 had been in Paris for so long,

00:44:10.520 like his daughter doesn't really know him

00:44:12.000 and had also never left home.

00:44:13.600 So Polly is like struggling.

00:44:15.620 And Abigail Adams is like, okay,

00:44:16.960 like she's reassuring to her so she's nice to birds she's nice to the children of strangers

00:44:21.860 other people's children yes her own children absolutely not you very high standards yeah

00:44:30.200 she only really cares about her own children when they're getting married to somebody who

00:44:34.240 she doesn't like eventually eventually they leave london much to her dismay because she came she

00:44:41.060 came to like it too it's honestly relatable like you go to a place you don't like it here like

00:44:45.000 especially if you move because your family moves

00:44:46.720 and you didn't choose to.

00:44:48.140 But then she gets used to it.

00:44:49.420 Like it feels like home. 0.92

00:44:51.200 Eventually they come back to America

00:44:53.280 because he is the vice president

00:44:57.100 and he needs to do his job.

00:44:59.580 Yeah.

00:45:00.140 And I like this rule.

00:45:01.640 When I first read this past American rule,

00:45:04.560 I thought it was very interesting

00:45:05.320 that it used to be whoever got the most votes as president.

00:45:07.680 There's not parties yet.

00:45:08.980 And whoever gets second most votes as vice president.

00:45:11.840 Yeah.

00:45:12.120 And it's so funny

00:45:12.920 because that happens under John Adams,

00:45:15.420 whose vice president is Thomas Jefferson.

00:45:17.060 And they're actually, their parties have formed.

00:45:19.180 There's a Federalist Party

00:45:20.080 and a Democratic Republican Party.

00:45:21.860 And I'm pretty sure when Thomas Jefferson wins, 1.00

00:45:24.620 he's like, that's a stupid rule. 0.99

00:45:27.620 We, I'm gonna pick my own vice president. 1.00

00:45:29.720 Why would you do that? 1.00

00:45:31.540 Screw bipartisanship.

00:45:34.340 Well, and it's like, of course it didn't work.

00:45:36.680 So when he was, I think the timing of this,

00:45:38.860 I don't remember exactly, but he was vice president

00:45:41.760 And it was kind of like, this is the first time there's ever been a president.

00:45:44.620 First time there's been a vice president. 1.00

00:45:45.840 And he wrote in his letters to her, he's like, this job is bullshit. 0.99

00:45:48.300 There's nothing to do. 1.00

00:45:49.140 This is a fake job.

00:45:51.340 And at this point, the Capitol was in New York City.

00:45:54.960 And so they had to like, they weren't provided a house.

00:45:57.400 They had to like find a rental.

00:45:58.460 And it was really hard to find a rental.

00:46:00.140 And they're just like, I don't want to live here. 1.00

00:46:01.440 This job is stupid. 1.00

00:46:02.820 They're like, Zillow is not providing. 1.00

00:46:04.860 It's ridiculous. 0.75

00:46:06.280 And then the worst part is they're like, okay, you become president. 0.90

00:46:08.620 And you get to live in the in the in the in the president's house, later the White House, you know, for the first time ever.

00:46:15.040 But it's a construction zone. 0.91

00:46:16.700 It's disgusting. 0.59

00:46:18.120 Enjoy.

00:46:18.380 It was described as wait, it's the best quote.

00:46:22.360 It was like she had to take a carriage to the like malaria ridden swamp town of Washington. 0.99

00:46:29.860 Disgusting. 0.84

00:46:31.480 I was like, OK, give me a T-shirt that says like Washington, D.C., malaria ridden swamp town. 0.85

00:46:37.680 yeah and she is so prone to illness this is like not a good climate not conducive like this is

00:46:45.800 triggering like she's got rheumatoid arthritis in an era where there's not the only like pain 0.99

00:46:50.140 medication you have is like latinum like let's let's give you some more opium like okay so she's

00:46:55.620 and she has to go on these long carriage rides and then they got lost on their way to washington

00:46:59.840 like they got lost in the woods outside of baltimore because they didn't know where

00:47:04.180 they're going because it's like not a city we really needed better signage rough time so they're

00:47:10.780 getting to they're going to washington dc and she is unlike martha washington who martha washington 0.96

00:47:16.800 was just like fuck this fuck new england where i want to be in the south where are my like 500 0.99

00:47:22.460 enslaved people fuck everything um abigail is like okay we'll make it work like we'll live in 1.00

00:47:27.860 Washington. We'll live in this swamp town. Like, okay. And so she's sort of, Martha Washington 1.00

00:47:34.280 served as the first first lady. Abigail Adams is an ex first lady. And so it's kind of, there's an

00:47:38.740 expectation of like what, what she can do, what she can be like. And she's like first lady slash

00:47:44.900 chief of staff. Like she's not just hosting parties. Like the reason why she went to be 0.81

00:47:50.280 there, like she would have gone there eventually, but John Adams was without her for a couple of

00:47:53.700 months. And he's just like, I don't know what to do. I need Abigail. Like she's always kind of

00:47:57.640 like been his like brainstorming partner like it's very hillary and bill i think at the time

00:48:04.380 abigail adams by critics is called mrs president it is very why is hillary working on child care

00:48:11.420 but what a lot of people either don't know or don't remember is that john adams basically

00:48:16.420 decides because they don't know what to do with this cabinet of washington's like

00:48:20.120 he's in the same party as washington these are washington's people do i fire them do i

00:48:27.640 I'm just going to bring them all with me.

00:48:29.500 And there were people who were not a fan of John Adams.

00:48:32.640 And it was just not the best cabinet to turn to for advice.

00:48:36.040 So he's like, yeah, I want to turn to my wife.

00:48:39.240 I trust her.

00:48:40.320 And she's super smart.

00:48:42.500 And she, it's, this is part of what I think,

00:48:45.080 again, when I was asking,

00:48:45.940 like, what do people know about Abigail Adams?

00:48:47.220 People knew that she was sort of like his helper.

00:48:49.380 Like she was known to be,

00:48:50.960 he would turn to her and be like, babe,

00:48:52.420 what, like, what do I do?

00:48:53.520 Like, this is what's happening.

00:48:54.500 Like, and we know so much about the relationship

00:48:56.420 because they were parked so often.

00:48:58.280 There's so many letters.

00:48:59.540 And she's always like, here's what you do.

00:49:01.700 And like, yeah, unfortunately,

00:49:02.740 she is the backer of some of the least popular acts

00:49:08.420 that John Adams signs that kind of sees

00:49:11.580 is probably the reason he's a one-term president.

00:49:14.540 Yeah.

00:49:15.220 Well, I've got some other reasons

00:49:16.660 he's a one-term president.

00:49:17.740 And that reason is Alexander Hamilton.

00:49:19.660 So as in the musical, well, Hamilton.

00:49:24.060 So the like tabloids and the sending stories back and forth and just like it's so at this

00:49:32.380 point, if you're the candidate to be president, you're not allowed to campaign when it's if

00:49:39.820 you're running for president, you just have to like go back to brain tree and just like

00:49:43.540 run your farm and like other people sort of do that on your behalf, which is interesting.

00:49:47.380 Fascinating.

00:49:47.940 Imagine that.

00:49:48.540 Imagine trying to enforce that rule now.

00:49:51.080 Like the candidates can't campaign themselves.

00:49:54.060 But, so, Alexander Hamilton hates John Adams.

00:49:58.080 Not sure why.

00:49:59.740 Do you know why?

00:50:00.620 Just, he's just a hater?

00:50:02.460 Well, they're definitely,

00:50:04.420 John Adams is way more of a,

00:50:07.160 let's work together, you know,

00:50:09.460 even with Thomas Jefferson,

00:50:11.400 who he has some disagreements with,

00:50:13.820 much more, we should all work together above party.

00:50:18.500 And Alexander Hamilton is a little more wily,

00:50:21.700 a little more rascally.

00:50:22.620 I don't know exactly what John Adams thought about Hamilton's plan for a federal bank or for

00:50:28.540 this national bank. So I don't know the full story there, but just the little bit, what we know of

00:50:34.320 their personalities and maybe their ways of going about politics. I could see Alexander Hamilton

00:50:42.180 kind of seeing John Adams as like, ugh, this whatever spineless man.

00:50:48.280 But John Adams, the vibe he gives me, a Canadian, is our current prime minister, Mark Carney, who so many people, myself included, are just like, oh, this guy's an adult. He can handle himself. You can give him a report and he's going to read it and send it back with like intelligent notes. It's just like, oh, a grownup. And it's just kind of a relief. And I feel like John Adams is bringing that vibe of just kind of like, okay, like you can give him this form to fill out and fill it out appropriately in a timely manner.

00:51:17.160 And that's not exciting. And that's not revolutionary. But like you said, it's maybe

00:51:24.800 what you need for your president number two. Yeah, I agree. Alexander Hamilton would have

00:51:29.780 blown us up. Yeah, they had very opposing views of the future of the country. John Adams is that

00:51:35.560 more pragmatic. He's reading the documents and he's not going to just throw us into war with

00:51:40.780 france because of partially the neutrality uh washington's farewell address about neutrality

00:51:47.300 and also the fact that the weird thing about the french revolution and stuff is technically

00:51:52.880 america sort of signed an agreement and and worked with the french king and so kind of part of the

00:52:01.240 argument is it's kind of null and void because the group that's asking for our help has beheaded the

00:52:08.700 king and because he was he was the president during the french revolution and they were kind

00:52:14.380 of like can you help us and he was like no actually i don't really know if it it's transferable i don't

00:52:21.620 know if you're grandfathered in and also my boo washington was really not about getting involved

00:52:28.220 in international entanglement so thanks for your help though in the revolution which also france

00:52:34.360 wasn't just doing that out of the kindness of their heart they hated the british yeah exactly

00:52:38.100 they did it. They were like, yeah, let's take them down. But what happens with this? So it's

00:52:43.380 interesting though. So just to recap what I learned is that, so Washington was president

00:52:47.200 for two terms. And at that point they're like, should this be a permanent thing? Should we call

00:52:50.660 you emperor? Like what's the vibe? And Washington's just like, fuck, like my wife wants me to go back

00:52:55.160 to the South. I'm super sick. I don't want to be, I didn't want to be president to begin with, 1.00

00:52:59.240 get me out of here. And so that's kind of where you have the two term limit comes in, but he could

00:53:03.400 of state. And then John Adams comes in. So there's this battle to be the next president. And this is

00:53:08.360 where Alexander Hamilton comes in. And it's like, it was informative for me to see like, exactly

00:53:13.860 like today, like if there was Twitter formula or like X formerly known as Twitter, it's like,

00:53:19.120 if there was Reddit, it's just like, if you can pay bots, like that's what they were doing in

00:53:23.420 this electoral campaign to see who would be the president. Like people are spreading rumors like

00:53:28.900 Thomas Jefferson, his mother was actually like, she wasn't white and like rumors about him and

00:53:35.240 Sally Hemings. But then I'm like, well, what rumor can you even say about John Adams? It's

00:53:39.300 just like, he's boring. But they came up with some shit. Like they were just exactly the same 1.00

00:53:44.780 as now. I was like, wow. So America has always been like this. The elections have always been

00:53:49.340 like a dirty business. Never been above it. And part of the reason why Abigail Adams

00:53:55.300 supports the Alien and Sedition Act,

00:53:58.160 which is seen obviously

00:53:59.320 as an attack on free speech

00:54:00.400 and also immigration,

00:54:02.260 is because she saw it as a way

00:54:05.480 to stop these attacks on her husband,

00:54:08.420 which were untrue and uncalled for

00:54:12.000 and wanted to see that stopped,

00:54:15.220 which was part of,

00:54:16.840 kind of a violation

00:54:18.500 of also the First Amendment

00:54:20.120 in free speech,

00:54:22.640 which is pretty important.

00:54:23.940 But that's one of the reasons

00:54:25.240 that she does support these acts

00:54:26.700 and encourages him down that path,

00:54:29.460 which is very unpopular,

00:54:30.620 is because of what she's seeing

00:54:31.980 about her family in the press.

00:54:34.200 And also, like, she's, like, again,

00:54:36.020 like, consistent, like, she's ill all the time.

00:54:38.240 This is a stressful life.

00:54:39.420 Like, that's going to be triggering

00:54:40.280 her rheumatoid arthritis. 0.94

00:54:41.680 And, like, she has, like, malaria. 1.00

00:54:43.440 Like, she is not a well woman.

00:54:45.660 But John Adams also has various symptoms.

00:54:47.540 And we know this from their letters back and forth.

00:54:49.200 Like, this is a stressful life.

00:54:50.540 They're kind of older in terms of people living.

00:54:53.960 president in his I think he's 65 or something he lives till almost he's either 90 or around there

00:54:59.980 but it's it's kind of old to become president and so both of them are just kind of like

00:55:06.640 he does not become a two-term president and I think they're both kind of like thank god like

00:55:11.540 let's go back to Braintree and just like chill because this has not been conducive to either of

00:55:16.280 our health really so he's defeated they retired to peace field in quincy um and then she's just 0.80

00:55:24.460 kind of like she's able to run a household like she keeps busy as per ever one thing that i do

00:55:32.080 want to mention is that her so her children you mentioned like john quincy adams secretly marries

00:55:37.840 in europe comes back with his wife but like there's grandchildren around so she's kind of

00:55:41.320 like i think helping with her education and stuff like so many people she's like hands-on with a

00:55:46.200 grandchildren in a way she was not with the children yeah but this is where she also gets

00:55:51.320 into birds in a bigger way i think like she's just like loves her birds loves her bird song

00:55:57.340 she's like a retired man with golf she just gets into it or anyone over the age of 50 with pickleball

00:56:03.920 she's just like she's exactly that she's exactly i can picture her living in any time period

00:56:11.100 living a very similar life so she starts so she and thomas jefferson like they had some beef

00:56:16.280 because of the presidential race and stuff but then after his daughter polly dies and that's

00:56:19.800 the one who she like helped out when she's a little girl in england so then they resume her

00:56:23.760 correspondence thomas jefferson also famous for writing a lot of letters to a lot of people so

00:56:28.280 she's she she just has various pen pals that she's writing to i do want to mention this just

00:56:34.260 because it was horrific to me and i need you to know everyone to know so her daughter uh

00:56:40.420 who's like 47 years old at this time,

00:56:42.960 Nabi, 0.96

00:56:43.740 she gets breast cancer. 1.00

00:56:45.420 Yeah.

00:56:45.680 Did you know about this?

00:56:46.780 Yes.

00:56:47.820 Ugh.

00:56:48.660 Okay.

00:56:49.240 Yeah.

00:56:49.920 So this is before the invention of anesthetic 0.97

00:56:51.940 and Nabi gets breast cancer

00:56:54.640 and so she gets a mastectomy

00:56:56.520 in her breast. 1.00

00:56:59.700 Like, 0.81

00:57:00.100 this is like,

00:57:01.880 when you think about,

00:57:02.680 you know,

00:57:02.900 people getting their arm amputated

00:57:05.060 on the battlefield

00:57:05.780 or whatever vibes,

00:57:06.900 this is like

00:57:07.560 medically horrifying.

00:57:10.420 oh my god i it is hard to conceptualize it i cannot even imagine no and she's so they gave

00:57:19.200 her i guess all they had was laudanum which is like opium mixed alcohol so just get her like as

00:57:22.640 high as possible um then they did the surgery and she like recovers from it which is incredible

00:57:29.740 yeah which is i don't think we're washing hands either like i don't think we're doing any of that

00:57:35.020 we're not washing tools we're like so nabby survives the surgery the breast cancer does

00:57:41.060 spread to her other breast she ends up um dying three years later so abigail is just kind of

00:57:47.100 outliving her own children which you know devastating and her own illness just gets

00:57:52.320 worse and worse eventually so she catches typhoid fever and at that point i think her daughter not

00:57:57.340 her daughter her daughter's dead one of her children somebody wrote a letter being like

00:58:01.120 she's gotten every disease and she always gets through it so like don't worry about mom she's

00:58:06.500 74 but she's had every disease i'm like no it's cumulative like yeah she has had every disease 0.62

00:58:15.040 and recovered from it and that's why her body is so weak right now when she got typhoid age 74

00:58:20.100 in colonial america anyway so she passed this away and actually that was i thought that she

00:58:25.980 was going to live long enough to see john quincy adams become president but no um he all lives

00:58:30.320 her. John Adams outlives her. So it was two weeks shy of her 74th birthday. Her last words were,

00:58:36.880 do not grieve my friend, my dearest friend. I'm ready to go. And John, it will not be long.

00:58:42.320 He died eight years later. And this is famous. He died the same day as Thomas Jefferson on July 4th.

00:58:47.340 On July 4th, which is poetic in a way that you couldn't even, you couldn't even write that.

00:58:52.660 You know, it is so poetic. And also Abigail Adams, her death is what really reunites and this beautiful friendship that Thomas Jefferson and John Adams end up having because he writes something after Abigail's death being like the only thing that can cure anything this horrible, this loss is just it's time and patience or something like that.

00:59:14.300 And that really kind of revigorates, you know, it invigorates this friendship again.

00:59:20.340 And they really have a beautiful relationship.

00:59:23.400 Yeah, they become buds.

00:59:25.200 Yeah, just sort of like we've been through it, but like no one else has lived the same journey we have. 0.99

00:59:29.820 Like no one else understands this, what it's like to be president in this fucked up country. 0.98

00:59:34.360 They basically have a men's group of two. 0.99

00:59:37.280 Yeah, it's sort of like when you see,

00:59:39.120 like nowadays-ish,

00:59:40.860 when like George W. Bush gets together

00:59:42.640 with, you know, like with Bill Clinton

00:59:45.980 and like Barack Obama and they're like,

00:59:48.320 no one else knows what this was like.

00:59:50.640 It's a very small club,

00:59:53.200 especially when you're like, 0.99

00:59:54.940 oh, that one really sucks. 0.99

00:59:57.020 That one over there. 0.99

00:59:59.020 No one else understood.

00:59:59.820 The current one in office.

01:00:02.060 So two things.

01:00:03.900 So we mentioned a bit about her.

01:00:06.420 The Remember the Women.

01:00:07.760 Can you explain what that is?

01:00:09.000 Because that's like her most famous letter.

01:00:10.600 Yes.

01:00:11.020 So the Remember the Women is when they are drafting, you know, what the future of this 0.86

01:00:15.020 country is going to look like.

01:00:16.200 And Abigail Adams writes to Thomas Jefferson to remember the women when we are drafting

01:00:24.160 this new vision of a country.

01:00:25.780 Hold on.

01:00:26.380 I'm looking up the famous quote because she has one about like men would be.

01:00:32.940 And yeah, I'm sorry.

01:00:34.660 It's Remember the Ladies. 1.00

01:00:36.420 Um, is the name of it. Not remember the women. I just, you know, um, so really quickly, she basic, what she basically says is that without women, you know, all men would just be tyrants and kind of out of control and that we need women, you know, represented in some way, not in terms of being an office necessarily, but we need women represented in this new nation, you know, establish some laws.

01:01:05.220 that favor the just and liberal principles

01:01:08.240 is one of the things that she says

01:01:09.620 to Thomas Jefferson.

01:01:11.300 And I mean, John Adams kind of laughs it off,

01:01:13.540 but it's way more of a serious letter 0.95

01:01:15.720 than a silly letter. 0.80

01:01:17.140 You know, she was kind of like, 0.92

01:01:18.400 kind of being cute and fun about this.

01:01:20.100 But also, I mean,

01:01:22.580 if we're going to make up the rules of this country,

01:01:25.480 I'm just saying.

01:01:26.040 Why not?

01:01:27.080 Yeah.

01:01:28.060 So this is, I think, what,

01:01:29.660 when I was asking,

01:01:30.180 what do people know about her?

01:01:31.080 People like, remember the ladies? 0.92

01:01:32.680 Or people are just like,

01:01:33.400 oh, she was sort of like, 1.00

01:01:34.300 paved the way for the suffragette movement 1.00

01:01:36.720 or whatever. 0.99

01:01:37.240 I don't know if she did. 1.00

01:01:38.200 They see her as kind of a proto-feminist, 0.99

01:01:41.680 but I think people loop her together

01:01:46.600 with the suffragette movement

01:01:47.780 because it comes, you know,

01:01:50.580 I mean, I think if you're looking

01:01:52.960 for points in history,

01:01:54.820 you could point to this,

01:01:55.840 but she wasn't necessarily calling 0.77

01:01:58.780 for voting rights. 0.87

01:02:00.500 She wasn't fighting for women. 0.53

01:02:01.200 I could see that maybe 1.00

01:02:02.180 the suffragettes themselves 0.97

01:02:03.300 would see this letter and find motivation. 1.00

01:02:05.460 It would be a great way to co-opt it.

01:02:07.380 That's the reason like some people see her 1.00

01:02:09.460 as like a proto-feminist in that way. 1.00

01:02:11.860 But of course, of her time.

01:02:13.880 Yeah, well, it's the same thing.

01:02:15.240 It's like she was against like slavery.

01:02:17.960 She was an abolitionist,

01:02:19.120 but she also like with the Othello example,

01:02:21.380 she was just kind of like,

01:02:22.320 ugh, I don't-

01:02:23.160 And she also benefited from it.

01:02:25.140 I mean, the people that were working in the White House

01:02:28.180 and she benefited from the system, you know? 0.95

01:02:32.380 And the White House was built by enslaved people. 0.95

01:02:35.780 Yeah, so. 0.97

01:02:38.460 She's kind of like, it's kind of like her knowledge of French.

01:02:41.240 She's like, theoretically, I oppose this.

01:02:44.260 But in practice, like, it's benefiting her in many invisible ways.

01:02:48.640 I don't know.

01:02:49.220 And you also, again, you have, obviously, most slaves are in the South because that is where you are growing tobacco and cotton.

01:02:58.080 and it's a little different when you're speaking from your porch of you're northern liberal just

01:03:06.380 kidding but you know what i mean it's it's a different position to be in i'm not saying that

01:03:10.100 it shouldn't i mean it should have been abolished but she's she's from a different vantage point

01:03:14.080 than some of the other people at the time so on the sort of biographical episodes of my podcast

01:03:21.560 i didn't give you a heads up about this but i feel like you'll figure it out real quickly

01:03:24.660 we have we have four categories we're going to score her in four different areas to give her

01:03:29.340 a numerical score okay abigail adams um and so it's a possible like it's from zero to ten

01:03:35.340 in each category the first category is scandalousness how scandalous which i feel 0.82

01:03:41.320 like this is a zero maybe a one i put her at a two just because she also was involved in 0.99

01:03:47.540 uh speculation with basically like the bonds that were given to veterans that they could recoup and

01:03:53.480 then people lost faith they lost value and so they were sold at really low cost and john adams

01:03:59.080 was very uncomfortable with this she had no moral qualms sweeping in buying those veterans bonds

01:04:05.680 because she knew they'd eventually appreciate and so there were some things with with money

01:04:10.820 that she she was kind of hawkish you know there was like some you know we weren't perfect but

01:04:17.160 we weren't scandal ridden either yeah the scandal i was thinking of is just people in

01:04:23.080 at first I was like

01:04:24.040 well people in England 0.72

01:04:24.780 would think she was scandalous 1.00

01:04:25.480 because of her involvement 0.99

01:04:26.120 in the American Revolution

01:04:26.940 but she later met

01:04:27.920 the king and queen

01:04:28.640 so like they got over it

01:04:30.100 so that's not

01:04:30.560 yeah

01:04:30.800 but yeah I think

01:04:32.400 just kind of

01:04:32.960 I think that's a good example

01:04:34.120 of just sort of like

01:04:35.080 a two

01:04:36.820 I think two is fair

01:04:37.920 and like the 0.61

01:04:38.660 Alien and Sedition Act

01:04:39.820 but

01:04:40.300 you know

01:04:41.680 that wasn't her

01:04:42.800 I mean I think people 0.99

01:04:43.840 maybe found a scandalous

01:04:44.880 that she was advising

01:04:45.920 her husband

01:04:46.560 and people 1.00

01:04:47.360 like women shouldn't do that 1.00

01:04:48.480 but I do think 1.00

01:04:50.140 she was like a wife

01:04:51.520 and mother

01:04:52.120 and like

01:04:53.080 There's not a lot of, there's no, no, even when, um, Alexander Hamilton and people are 1.00

01:04:57.220 being like, John Adams is a trashy bitch. 0.94

01:04:59.120 Like they're never like nothing ever against her. 1.00

01:05:02.080 Like she was impeachable.

01:05:05.020 Yeah. 1.00

01:05:05.780 Um, scheminess is the next category.

01:05:09.980 Um, just how clever was she coming up with a plan? 0.70

01:05:13.380 I think just her overall running the farm, like the bonds, like, I think she was like

01:05:21.060 always being like, how am I gonna thrive in this insane world? She's like an eight or a nine. I

01:05:26.860 mean, she is coming up with ways to survive. And John Adams even looked at her and said, I mean,

01:05:32.920 she she's got it. She knows what she's doing. I don't think she's scheming in terms of I want my

01:05:38.300 husband to become president. Because let's be honest, for most of her life, that wasn't even

01:05:42.320 a concept. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't exactly. And when they got power, she wasn't like,

01:05:47.600 ha ha, now I'm going to exercise this power. She's just like, okay, run this job. Let's do it. 0.87

01:05:53.840 More unpaid labor for Abigail. 1.00

01:05:57.160 Yeah, exactly. She wasn't, yeah, it wasn't like ambition, scheminess. It was just kind of like, 0.90

01:06:02.500 how can we make a go of it in this crazy world we live in? But definitely always coming up with

01:06:08.600 a plan. The next category is significance, her significance to overall history.

01:06:13.460 i mean i think she's a nine or a ten i think that in some ways she becomes a model of what

01:06:22.080 the the first lady can look like because you have martha washington is pretty removed and then you

01:06:27.500 have abigail adams way more involved and then we really start thinking about what does the first 0.79

01:06:32.180 lady do is it just ceremonial do we expect her to have platforms how involved do we want her to be 1.00

01:06:39.680 as an unelected married person to the president. 0.98

01:06:43.380 So I think she's incredibly significant

01:06:46.940 for the way that she helped shape John Adams's presidency

01:06:51.060 because if that did not go well,

01:06:53.580 that first transfer of power,

01:06:55.600 we're under some other country rule at this point. 0.94

01:06:58.700 And he would like with a different wife

01:07:00.040 or if he was a single man,

01:07:01.120 like she was so right there with him as a partner,

01:07:04.300 really like shaping what that presidency

01:07:06.180 was gonna look like.

01:07:07.000 yeah I think a 10 is fair which is interesting because going into this I was just like

01:07:12.580 do people know about her but it's like what did she actually do and she's one of the names like

01:07:17.360 I have I a Canadian have heard the name and I haven't heard the name of many other

01:07:22.760 yeah women from this time period you basically like you learn about different first ladies and 1.00

01:07:28.400 stuff it's like Mamie Eisenhower loved pink you know like that's what you get about her she 0.92

01:07:32.460 decorated in pink you know so everyone has a different vibe but abigail adams is really

01:07:38.700 is the top advisor to her husband essentially she like actually did stuff the final category is i

01:07:45.860 call it the sexism bonus and this is more like if there's somebody who accomplished less in life

01:07:50.560 it's like how much more could they have done without sexism i don't know that that got in her

01:07:55.420 way because well especially because she um her it was a love match it's not like she was married 0.82

01:08:03.580 off at age 12 to some like old man who she hated like she she was able to run the farm like I don't 0.74

01:08:11.580 know on the other hand it's like though if she was a man you know like what would she have done 0.55

01:08:18.480 what could she have done I think she was very good at working within the system still like 1.00

01:08:23.780 the fact that she needed a power of attorney, 1.00

01:08:26.500 even though she's the one running the show here. 0.57

01:08:29.800 I think she found a way to circumvent,

01:08:31.480 to work seemingly within the system,

01:08:33.640 but not actually.

01:08:35.620 And also, like you said,

01:08:36.900 having a husband like John Adams

01:08:39.420 was a huge difference on what her life looked like.

01:08:44.320 And, you know,

01:08:46.300 and I think it says a lot about John Adams,

01:08:48.160 not to give too much credit to the man,

01:08:49.480 but marrying a strong woman with opinions

01:08:51.920 And he was, didn't always take her advice, but he always wanted to hear it.

01:08:56.020 And they just went back and forth and kind of this equal partnership was a really, really big deal.

01:09:03.040 And it's very interesting that I don't know if you have the country, if you have the democracy without that strong woman.

01:09:10.760 Yeah.

01:09:11.320 So I think I would say just to like, I would say like a five.

01:09:16.320 Let's do that.

01:09:16.820 It certainly affected her life, but she worked around it and was still able to accomplish quite

01:09:22.240 a bit. So this is 25 total. Is that? That seems pretty good. I can't do math, so.

01:09:30.520 No, 25 is total. And so I'll give you just some other episodes. Let's see. Someone else who maybe

01:09:36.760 you've heard of who's at a similar level, just so you can. Okay. I wasn't sure how high she would

01:09:41.580 score, honestly, because I just kept thinking like, well, she's not scandalous at all. She's 0.73

01:09:44.720 gonna get like a total score of three or something um queen charlotte you're like let me tell you 0.81

01:09:49.480 about speculation queen charlotte is the lowest ever score she got one one out of 40 wow um because

01:09:58.660 she didn't do anything yeah let me see so i did unusual for the show but i did an episode on

01:10:06.220 lafayette like the man um he got a he got a 23 um so that's where he is on this scale okay not bad

01:10:13.260 think of who you might have heard of a 25 is certainly respectable there's a lot of people

01:10:18.260 below jane austen has a 22 for instance okay so she's above that yeah i'm trying to think of like

01:10:24.340 who who would be like really high on the especially the scandal side on the scandal side there's

01:10:32.580 people like when we're getting really high it's like mary queen of scots it's like people who

01:10:36.300 yeah yeah that works um do you know ann lister the like lesbian diarist from oh she's well she's

01:10:45.400 a 36 oh okay i gotta find it i gotta go back and listen to that episode yeah no so she's oh in

01:10:52.320 terms of like people who didn't have their letters burn ann lister she wrote these like very explicit 0.98

01:10:57.160 sex diaries and secret code and then hid them in like behind the bricks in her chimney and then

01:11:03.600 later her descendants found them and they're like what's this and it started translating them they're

01:11:07.240 like oh no and they hit them again and she was dirty and then later somebody else found them

01:11:13.460 and translated them and it's kind of like abigail adams but like with more sex in it but it's a

01:11:17.620 really interesting thing to see like a person living through various world events and what

01:11:21.120 was their day-to-day life like kind of like abigail adams with more sex would be a great

01:11:26.120 bumper sticker or mug yeah i think in terms of people who kept their diet i love this is why

01:11:33.440 I'm sad when somebody burns their diaries

01:11:35.520 because it's like the day-to-day minutiae

01:11:37.860 really puts together a picture

01:11:38.960 of like what life was really like.

01:11:41.060 I agree.

01:11:41.480 Even, okay, so when I was a senior in high school

01:11:43.600 for our AP history class,

01:11:45.820 which is like the college accredited

01:11:47.700 like high school courses.

01:11:50.680 Anyway, we had to keep a journal all year,

01:11:55.720 a scrapbook basically.

01:11:57.240 I don't know why they didn't just have everyone do this.

01:12:00.260 It seemed weird and elitist

01:12:02.160 that only the AP classes had to do this.

01:12:04.900 Like why?

01:12:05.900 Our thoughts weren't more valuable.

01:12:07.500 But anyway, we made these things

01:12:09.400 and I still have mine.

01:12:10.600 And I actually asked a lot of people

01:12:12.760 that I went to high school with,

01:12:13.600 like, do you still have yours?

01:12:14.420 And so many people said,

01:12:16.120 oh, I got rid of that immediately.

01:12:17.640 Or I tried to look at it when I was in college

01:12:19.580 and I was so embarrassed that I got rid of it.

01:12:21.180 Now, I didn't look at mine until over a decade later.

01:12:24.160 And I was like, oh my God, I can't look at this thing.

01:12:27.080 Like, this is gonna be so embarrassing.

01:12:28.020 And then I start going through and I'm like,

01:12:29.640 I forgot about that.

01:12:30.780 Or, you know, you look at it at a different lens

01:12:33.280 and you're like, oh my God, that was going on.

01:12:35.380 That was the song we were listening to.

01:12:37.380 And I'm so thankful that I have it

01:12:39.000 and that I didn't let the cringe factor

01:12:40.940 stop me from keeping it.

01:12:43.880 A 10-year time period is crucial to like...

01:12:46.060 You need time.

01:12:46.920 If I had looked at that in high school,

01:12:49.780 I would have burned each sheet individually

01:12:52.880 like some Eliza Hamilton cosplay

01:12:55.880 from Hamilton the musical.

01:12:57.300 so merida thank you so much for for bringing your expertise on american history because honestly

01:13:04.680 there's so much of like that sedition act and stuff i'm just like don't know what that was

01:13:08.500 so thank you um and where can people follow you your podcast your everything just let everybody

01:13:15.300 know yes so i co-host a podcast with amanda matta matter of fact who is the royal commentator to the

01:13:23.600 stars essentially and we have a podcast called off with our headlines which comes out twice a

01:13:29.020 week talking about all royals but really the british royal family and shenanigans in the

01:13:34.020 media if you want to read my writing i do have a sub stack it's meredithconstant.substack.com

01:13:39.540 and you can find me all over social media tiktok instagram etc at meredithconstant one word

01:13:46.220 fantastic thank you so very much thank you i was really looking forward to this um abigail adams

01:13:53.120 I know I didn't know 0.96

01:13:54.960 anything about her

01:13:55.620 now I know a lot about her

01:13:56.860 I will ride for her

01:13:58.080 like thank you

01:13:59.340 yes

01:14:00.240 and happy 250th anniversary

01:14:04.080 to your country

01:14:04.960 thanks I will be

01:14:06.600 I will be Tina Fey

01:14:07.720 eating an entire sheet cake

01:14:09.260 on SNL

01:14:10.000 that will be me

01:14:11.460 yeah I mean

01:14:13.500 fireworks

01:14:14.220 I don't know

01:14:14.780 I don't know what you do

01:14:15.940 yay

01:14:16.580 so thanks again

01:14:22.040 to Meredith Constant

01:14:22.920 for joining me for this conversation and make sure to listen to her podcast off with her

01:14:27.620 headlines that she does with fellow friend of this podcast, Amanda Matta. And I wrote a book.

01:14:33.740 Surprise. It's called Rebel of the Regency, the Scandal Saga of Carolina Brunswick,

01:14:38.000 Britain's Queen Without a Crown. She was a person who lived in parallel to Abigail Adams. I'm pretty

01:14:43.340 sure the two of them never met, but they certainly knew people in common. Both of them really hated

01:14:47.660 Queen Charlotte. So I think the two of them will get along had they met. Anyway, my book,

01:14:52.740 rebel of the regency you can get as a book as an ebook as an audio book and it's available in

01:14:57.440 all english-speaking countries it's here in north america you can get it in australia new zealand

01:15:05.240 united kingdom ireland it's available in some european places as well and if it's not in your

01:15:10.160 local store you can always order it online you can get more information about my book and how

01:15:14.200 to order it at rebel of the regency.com and next week oh boy we have a treat we're going to be

01:15:21.400 talking about somebody else from American history with a guest who I think you're going to be really

01:15:25.860 excited to hear from. And we will learn about a man from American history who I think can be added

01:15:31.520 to the pantheon of worst ever dudes discussed on this podcast. So you have that to look forward

01:15:36.280 next week. And also next week, I'm going to have the exciting reveal of our next season's theme

01:15:43.040 here on Vulgar History. So get ready for that. And until next time, keep your pants on and your tits

01:15:48.240 out. Vulgar History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Anne Foster. Editor is Christina 1.00

01:15:55.100 Lumagi. Theme music is by The Severn Duo. Vulgar History artwork by Karen Moynihan.

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Vulgar History - July 01, 2026

Remember Abigail Adams (with Meredith Constant)

Episode Stats

Transcript