Breaking the Boy Code - Lucas and Kashyap Discuss the Man Box

00:00:00.000 Hi.

00:00:01.400 Terrible hi.

00:00:02.700 Fix your hi.

00:00:03.340 Hi, we are your hosts.

00:00:04.780 Wait, you have to say that because Lucas is saying something.

00:00:06.780 Yes.

00:00:07.700 Hi, we are your hosts.

00:00:10.100 I'm Lucas.

00:00:11.020 I'm Jonathan.

00:00:11.800 And I'm Kashiop.

00:00:13.080 This is Breaking the Boy Code.

00:00:14.940 okay we kind of normally we start with that like warm-up but we've had samosas and took like

00:00:36.440 multiple takes to get the intro part so let's jump into the check-in do you remember the check-in

00:00:39.840 what that is this is the thing that came from that man cave organization in australia it's

00:00:44.160 an organization that i really like and the idea is first of all you don't have to but it would be

00:00:48.740 like lucas do you want to check in and when you're checking in you're the only one talking and you

00:00:53.320 can share like highlights lowlights what's been happening over the last couple of weeks where's

00:00:57.780 your energy at today that kind of thing you don't have to go first but that's what we're starting

00:01:01.880 with so we all get a sense of where we've been over the last couple of weeks i'll check in okay

00:01:06.680 go for it okay so last recording kesh up here showed me a legacy that he was building and

00:01:13.480 Totally, 100%, just to spite him, I went out, bought the same Lego set, built it, and he 0.98

00:01:18.980 still has not finished the-

00:01:20.080 I'm still on pack two, by the way.

00:01:22.100 There's 11 bags.

00:01:23.540 I know!

00:01:25.360 You're only on two?

00:01:26.780 There's 11.

00:01:27.380 I've been very lazy recently.

00:01:29.940 There's 11 plus I did a second one and two GWPs.

00:01:33.660 I know, but-

00:01:34.340 And, like, the same-

00:01:35.360 Okay, you know what?

00:01:36.640 The rest is probably getting cut, but good lore.

00:01:39.320 Yeah, that is some backstory.

00:01:40.900 So you leapfrogged his Lego building.

00:01:42.860 capabilities. No, but I still have like

00:01:45.360 a Lamborghini car that I still have to build.

00:01:47.520 A real car? You're going to build a real Lamborghini?

00:01:49.780 Oh yeah. No, what?

00:01:51.020 A real Lamborghini? Okay, so back to Lucas checking in.

00:01:53.540 Now, you can't interrupt with

00:01:55.080 his shade on your Lego building abilities.

00:01:57.780 You get to keep going. Anything else you want to share

00:01:59.460 about highlights, lowlights, how have you been over the last couple

00:02:01.440 of weeks, or how are you today?

00:02:03.460 Literally just ate another piece of samosa.

00:02:06.020 Okay, how about you do a check-in

00:02:07.700 if you want to while Lucas eats a samosa?

00:02:10.500 No, that was my check-in.

00:02:11.560 delicious samosas okay it goes like this it would be like here i'll go first how about i go first

00:02:15.980 okay i'm a role model block two because yeah thank you okay no talking jonathan checking in

00:02:22.580 that's the first thing you say jonathan checking in do you want another piece of samosa oh yes

00:02:26.000 uh lucas saved the last two samosas for jonathan oh thank you okay you guys can't talk i'm checking

00:02:32.620 in jonathan checking in i've been kind of all over the place over the last couple of weeks

00:02:37.220 facilitating a bunch i'm coaching an ultimate frisbee team which is kind of fun but challenging

00:02:42.840 in a way that i like totally am like new to something like enjoying the challenge of of

00:02:48.080 coaching i started tutoring and then most recently i was speaking at a conference for a couple of

00:02:52.700 days so my energy right now is actually like a little bit discombobulated like a little bit

00:02:56.800 too tired we'll see how silly i get hopefully not too silly but it's like at that have you ever been

00:03:02.720 so tired you get silly okay you can't talk that's right it's just me talking 0.82

00:03:06.760 good job not falling for that skill testing question anyways i'm pretty good i'm glad to 0.84

00:03:11.680 be here i'm sorry we're a little bit late and i appreciate the samosas who's gonna go jonathan

00:03:16.280 checked in oh my gosh you did there's like so many things where i wanted to say something oh yeah

00:03:22.440 like i saw this meme where this guy was like in an airport or something he's like

00:03:26.060 man i feel so discombobulated right now and the camera flips around and there's a sign up there

00:03:30.220 saying recombobulation he's like thank god i think i've seen that too my turn okay go for it

00:03:36.940 hello this is kashyup aka cash checking in and basically over the last few weeks uh it's just

00:03:44.320 been like my science fair project but like i'm done that now and we had a very good science

00:03:49.920 project we built a hydraulic powered claw machine you probably heard that last episode but

00:03:55.200 who cares no it's great it's like follow-up it's like jonathan sorry sorry it's great we want to

00:04:02.420 hear about this keep going okay so basically one of the teachers told us that they voted for a

00:04:06.780 project that's very good because they still haven't released who won yet which is kind of annoying

00:04:11.540 but also we've been working on essays in english class i'm almost done my essay and it's due on

00:04:18.480 friday so i'm actually ahead and i'm really bored now that we have no science fair but it's fine

00:04:24.160 more minecraft cash and secondly check checking in and then checking in this is lucas checking in

00:04:31.860 i'd say i had a pretty boring and monotonous week other than first day of my job and then

00:04:40.500 i had some terrible ttc connections which was horrible the subways were so slow and then somebody

00:04:47.900 had like a medical emergency or whatever so we all had to get off the subway and then wait for

00:04:52.600 another subway and that second subway was really slow like why have a medical emergency in the

00:04:58.760 middle of my subway is what I'm saying but it was pretty worth it because uh I got a Lego set that

00:05:05.260 Keship had and I actually got two Lego sets well technically four because I had some gifts and I

00:05:11.800 was able to finish it before Keship even finished one of his and he's still not done so that is my

00:05:17.860 pride lucas checked in are you gonna be working on july 1st oh hang on is july 1st the answer

00:05:26.400 to that is hopefully not you'll be working on july 1st because no because my sister has a

00:05:30.680 rowing competition on july 1st so i can come meet you there what's the date like what day of the

00:05:35.460 week is it i'll check june july oh july's after school ends right thursday the first thursday

00:05:41.880 Okay, yeah, so I haven't the foggiest idea, but I am available, so maybe.

00:05:47.060 I was old.

00:05:47.620 He says, I haven't the foggiest idea.

00:05:50.080 I've been saying that since I was like eight. 1.00

00:05:52.000 Shut up. 0.98

00:05:52.900 In July, yeah, I might be. 0.99

00:05:56.500 So yeah, you can totally swing by.

00:05:58.380 You'd probably see me.

00:05:59.180 It's a pretty open place.

00:06:00.060 Would you give us free food if we came by?

00:06:01.620 No.

00:06:02.980 I'd probably get fired.

00:06:04.220 Oh, really?

00:06:05.780 Also, I haven't really operated the cash yet.

00:06:08.520 They haven't trained me to do that.

00:06:09.680 Cash, that's my name.

00:06:11.880 I mean, I might give you, like, an extra fry.

00:06:15.300 Okay, I'll take that.

00:06:16.260 Like, one extra fry?

00:06:17.040 Like, if you ask for...

00:06:18.180 What's your current position?

00:06:19.180 Are you, like, making food right now?

00:06:20.620 Yeah.

00:06:21.120 Oh, what type of food?

00:06:22.160 And cleaning as well.

00:06:23.360 Would you ever slip an extra...

00:06:24.260 In fact, you know, my...

00:06:25.140 Okay, we're getting off topic.

00:06:26.340 My foreman or manager said I did an amazing job sweeping.

00:06:29.340 She said she'd never seen the place I cleaned before.

00:06:31.160 Oh, respect.

00:06:32.160 Oh, my God.

00:06:32.760 Would you slip an extra chicken tender into someone's box?

00:06:36.220 I would, except for the unfortunate thing that they're all, like, separately packaged into portions,

00:06:40.540 so i'd have to like open a second wow and i don't think they'd like that they saw this coming they

00:06:45.040 prepared for that eventuality okay ketchup's right we're getting off topic this was an enjoyable

00:06:50.140 check-in though anything else for the check-in no thank you okay here's a backstory to the topic

00:06:58.200 actually this this topic has a very specific backstory i got asked to speak at a student

00:07:03.080 symposium does anybody know what a symposium is yep really i'm just not gonna tell you

00:07:08.060 it's like a conference like a big a big student gathering and uh it was about like student

00:07:13.380 empowerment leadership they want to do something about gender stereotypes with boys and young men

00:07:16.480 and the only hiccup is that the conference was in dot dot dot northern alberta which i am not

00:07:23.160 you're not northern alberta i thought you were northern alberta i am not in northern alberta

00:07:28.360 and so i was like we could do it online online's kind of not that great i could fly out you don't

00:07:33.500 really have budget for that and i was like listen just get a teacher from your school district to

00:07:38.040 facilitate the session i'll i'll do an instead of doing an hour with the students online i'll do an

00:07:43.180 hour with the teacher get them up to speed and get them to deliver this session with students

00:07:47.560 the session was going to be called the man box would you like to know how many teachers they

00:07:51.160 found volunteer for this facilitation opportunity zero lucas is right the answer is zero and so

00:07:57.180 my idea here is we're going to record this discussion so that any teacher listening to

00:08:02.180 this can be like okay that's actually really doable and so the next student symposium they

00:08:07.220 might see themselves as being the kind of person that can step into that discussion that activity

00:08:10.840 okay it's called the man box are you ready to dive in oui oui oui okay any lucas you're actually

00:08:17.880 already familiar about this because we did this like a couple of years ago so you got like a leap

00:08:21.760 you got so you got a bit of a head start do you remember what the box part is about or should i

00:08:26.780 explain that you can explain okay so the concept of the man box goes back to like the 1980s goes

00:08:32.680 back to the oakland's men's project it overlaps with a different organization called a call to

00:08:37.020 men and it's basically a really foundational act activity focused on what do we mean by the

00:08:42.720 stereotypes of what it means to be a man now you can explain yeah okay don't give away all the

00:08:48.480 details but take it from there because i kind of thought i knew what you're talking about but

00:08:51.000 i didn't want to like explain a different thing you're like that's not what i'm talking about

00:08:54.400 gotcha sorry where were you so i said it's like a visual representation of the stereotypes of what

00:09:00.220 it means to be a man yeah so what so don't you can give me one example or just explain what kind

00:09:05.360 of things are going in the middle of the box yeah so it's you could have a visual box or square

00:09:11.920 but it's very much like like stereotypes so you'd say um is this like a typically male thing like

00:09:20.320 being a teacher um and then most people would be like no that's out of the box but then being like

00:09:25.700 a fireman it literally has man in the name right because of that stereotype or like or a fire worker

00:09:32.420 yeah or like police you know that would be in the box and like somebody who's like weak or needs

00:09:39.740 help no that's out of the box it's stereotypes yeah is that making sense kashap so essentially

00:09:44.920 like the stereotypes are going inside the box the things that are not allowed are not expected

00:09:48.560 for boys and young men are going outside of the box and the way we're going to brainstorm this

00:09:52.840 is competition okay so i'm about to cook lucas up exactly so i'm going to give you guys a category

00:09:59.760 the cat the category is like your parameter and you can either say something inside the box or

00:10:07.660 outside the box and whoever gets stumped first it'll be like back and forth whoever gets stumped

00:10:13.880 first loses that point the other person gets a point and then we're the next category inside the

00:10:18.780 box okay okay let's go and you also if you just go for like 10 minutes straight and never get

00:10:24.340 stumped then we'll just move on because i don't know i don't know how hard this is going to be

00:10:27.060 for you the first category are you ready starting with kesha is physical appearance so how are guys

00:10:33.820 supposed to look dress their body appearance things like that go for it tight shirts okay

00:10:40.640 and that's inside the box yes okay i'd say like very strong physique like abs i recently saw an

00:10:49.360 ad that literally said masculine something and then it was just a picture of this guy with like

00:10:53.920 shredded abs and like i was like that's not realistic yeah fair enough probably like a hat

00:11:03.440 or like cool sunglasses okay so like accessories that make you look even more masculine so far

00:11:08.260 we've just described jonathan your turn why don't i think his hand's so big my hands are

00:11:15.300 normal size um short hair like whenever you think of like a big masculine guy you don't think of

00:11:20.820 Oh, wow. Stop identifying

00:11:23.000 Jonathan. It's crazy. In case you guys

00:11:24.880 didn't know, he has, like, long hair right now, down to

00:11:26.840 his shoulders a bit. Yeah, I used

00:11:28.880 to have long hair, but, like, I cut

00:11:30.900 that a while ago because my mom

00:11:32.260 forced to. Okay, we're getting off topic.

00:11:34.800 Yeah, me and Lucas had it on a safe time.

00:11:37.180 Probably another one would be

00:11:38.540 not having earrings, like Jonathan,

00:11:40.920 but he has them. Yeah, I'm breaking his stereotype

00:11:42.680 with my earrings. What about,

00:11:44.760 you can do outside the box, too. You guys have only been inside the box.

00:11:47.580 Oh, no, you just said one that was outside the box.

00:11:48.820 yeah dresses outside the box hmm dress shoes okay that's like a maybe any others lucas this

00:11:56.640 is your chance to beat keship if you can come up with a really good one better than dress shoes

00:12:01.040 it doesn't have to be outside the box no either i'd say like really handsome like

00:12:07.040 even if any even if you think of a guy that like meets everything else we said

00:12:11.940 but then they're really like ugly in quotations right you know then like a lot of people be like

00:12:18.800 they're not masculine at all they're not manly

00:12:21.060 right yeah do you know

00:12:23.240 what the like online word for that is these days

00:12:24.940 no

00:12:27.300 have you heard the word looks maxing

00:12:29.320 oh yeah I don't

00:12:31.120 want to know what it means

00:12:32.240 I think the one who's like grills

00:12:35.220 you know the things that you get on your teeth

00:12:36.480 yeah right 0.67

00:12:37.260 the like the mewing 0.99

00:12:40.140 the like all the like 0.81

00:12:41.400 having the perfect jawline

00:12:43.800 jinx you can't talk now

00:12:46.260 you can't talk now

00:12:47.320 Lucas just can't talk for the rest of the podcast.

00:12:50.220 Lucas gets that point.

00:12:51.500 Dress shoes was weak.

00:12:52.500 Dress shoes was weak.

00:12:53.500 Who cares?

00:12:54.040 I wear...

00:12:54.860 Plenty of guys wear dress shoes, dude.

00:12:57.760 Next category.

00:12:58.540 You literally like looked over there.

00:13:00.300 Are you ready for the next category?

00:13:03.240 It is...

00:13:04.200 Starting with catch up again because Lucas finished.

00:13:06.300 The category is hobbies, toys, interests.

00:13:09.520 How are guys supposed to be...

00:13:10.440 Spend their time and be interested.

00:13:11.300 Okay.

00:13:11.480 Tell me one.

00:13:12.700 Go for it.

00:13:13.240 Working out.

00:13:14.900 Inside or outside?

00:13:16.420 Inside.

00:13:17.320 dancing outside oh that's a very good one by the way thank you making sure like proper skin care

00:13:26.340 and everything inside or outside kind of like both okay what do you mean by that like

00:13:32.780 make sure you have good skin but like some people just don't care about it it's kind of like you're

00:13:39.600 supposed to have nice skin but you're not supposed to care about having nice skin yeah you're supposed

00:13:43.700 You're supposed to have nice skin, but you're not supposed to, like, have a skin care routine.

00:13:47.640 Yeah, interesting.

00:13:49.100 Your turn, Lucas.

00:13:50.060 Sewing would be outside the box.

00:13:51.540 Okay.

00:13:52.240 That's a very good one.

00:13:53.540 Oh, no, I was going to say something.

00:13:55.340 I was just like, oh, God.

00:13:58.340 Help me.

00:14:00.560 Getting put on the spot.

00:14:02.540 No, something just went down my throat.

00:14:03.720 I see.

00:14:04.480 You can think of toys.

00:14:05.000 You haven't named any toys yet.

00:14:07.360 Maybe we can do toys.

00:14:08.320 Yeah, toys, hobbies, interests.

00:14:09.240 Oh, dolls, outside.

00:14:10.460 Okay. 1.00

00:14:10.700 um toys inside but then again women also do oh i didn't even say it redo lego for toys 1.00

00:14:20.460 i feel like that's both inside and outside though because like but some people would say

00:14:25.060 it's childish they wouldn't say it's not masculine but it's childish have you seen the lego sets that

00:14:29.460 are like marketed towards girls yeah oh the friends one yeah they're like pink and right

00:14:36.160 yeah but those are like and just like pool parties most of the ones marketed towards adults

00:14:39.640 are like some of my favorite yeah i have quite a few of those right like the titanic or the

00:14:45.080 lion falcon that you have okay so we have dolls we have lego your turn cash out probably

00:14:51.020 oh god stop okay lucas your chance to steal okay um i know this is kind of weird and that it does

00:14:59.360 exist um stripper okay i mean i know male strippers do exist but it's more of a female thing so guys

00:15:09.380 are supposed to be into strippers and girls are supposed to be stripping but like guys aren't

00:15:12.060 supposed to okay even though i know like there are guys strippers you know but it's just not as like

00:15:17.380 common if you think about it that's a good point i don't even know there's such thing as a male like

00:15:21.480 a like a strip i guess there must be a strip club where guys are stripping yeah but i've never heard

00:15:26.700 of that clubs yeah like it's very uncommon yeah it does exist but it's typically seen as like

00:15:32.440 a female thing that guys watch right okay two points for lucas but also such a scam like

00:15:39.360 literally just go online like come on yeah that could be a whole conversation again that's that's

00:15:43.900 also another conversation like why go to a game and you can watch it online you know i guess it's

00:15:47.120 like a different experience in person yeah that's i think we're getting off topic okay fair enough

00:15:51.940 okay this time we'll make lucas go first because you had to go first which means technically you

00:15:56.220 guys tied a little bit okay so lucas you're going first this category is uh feelings emotions and

00:16:02.840 feelings uh you're not supposed to feel like scared i'd say that's like outside of the box

00:16:09.600 you're not supposed to feel like sad or anything you're supposed to say serious

00:16:13.320 and at all times brave goes inside the box probably like a strong person like strong

00:16:25.940 like mentally strong as a feeling like you always feel strong do you get it what do you mean by feel

00:16:34.200 strong like you feel yeah you feel like powerful okay yeah yeah i get that this is kind of an odd

00:16:42.400 one it's like uh in kind of both boxes but like loving and caring like you want like guys you

00:16:49.240 know loving and caring but then i feel if some guy is like too loving and caring then everybody

00:16:54.880 sees them as like

00:16:55.760 soft and like feminine

00:16:58.660 in quotations you know so that's like

00:17:00.960 outside of the box but then they're like

00:17:02.460 then again it's also inside

00:17:05.060 the box so it's kind of like a it's like

00:17:06.800 on the line it could go either way

00:17:08.400 probably

00:17:10.900 like guys aren't

00:17:13.160 supposed to feel

00:17:14.740 oh god

00:17:16.360 you always cook

00:17:18.320 can I steal?

00:17:20.860 not yet

00:17:21.340 we'll give him 10 seconds

00:17:23.480 okay there's a steel coming oh that was quite the knee crack steel incoming i would say like

00:17:30.360 crying or like getting hurt but that's the same as sad no it's not sad if you're getting like

00:17:36.520 hurt like if if you you know you see in movies you know you see a guy get stabbed and they go

00:17:41.660 ah but you're it's not accepted to go you know that's like it's like girly you know or whatever

00:17:48.580 Yeah, they don't have the ability to show pain.

00:17:50.480 You have to be like, oh, yeah, I don't feel pain because I'm a man.

00:17:54.740 And we're saying sadness and pain are slightly different things.

00:17:57.460 Well, like physical pain versus, like, mental pain.

00:18:00.620 Okay.

00:18:01.780 Did I win that one again?

00:18:03.500 Did you come up with anything that was inside the box?

00:18:05.580 Like, we had, oh, we had bravery.

00:18:07.120 Anything else going inside the box?

00:18:08.440 Bravery, strength.

00:18:08.960 I mean, that one was kind of, like, subtle.

00:18:10.520 We had that power one.

00:18:11.700 Yeah.

00:18:13.120 Yep.

00:18:13.640 Okay, okay.

00:18:15.180 Next category.

00:18:16.140 This is yours to win.

00:18:16.920 You got this.

00:18:17.620 competitive environments okay whether it's video games sports squash tournaments perhaps

00:18:23.780 how are guys supposed to act show up and behave in competitive environments and again this is

00:18:29.080 the stereotype so it's not what you necessarily believe it's what the stereotype says lucas you

00:18:33.500 have to go first again okay so i'd say like typically sports in general like you like the

00:18:42.680 stereotype expects all guys to be super sporty and then girls not as sporty like that's kind of

00:18:48.960 the general stereotype that like if you're not sporty if you're not athletic right then you're

00:18:55.660 not like manly or whatever cool so just athletic to begin with yeah got it you're supposed to like

00:19:04.020 guys are supposed to act tough during sports like as you see in basketball they're always shouting

00:19:10.440 they're like they're going like whoo you probably can't see that but like what i just did but when

00:19:15.820 you like go like whoo when you go like does an action forgets we're on a podcast

00:19:22.540 this is getting edited now but it'd be really funny to put it

00:19:26.560 your turn lucas um i'd say losing you know right you're not even supposed to lose like you have to

00:19:35.920 have oh wait i'm just not gonna say you're like you're not supposed to lose and if you do lose

00:19:42.240 you're not like allowed to act sad but you're gonna be like oh yeah i'm like manly or like

00:19:46.960 it's also like whoever loses like the least manly or whatever because like they're not tough enough

00:19:52.260 to win we're gonna add something to that you also can't like i feel like sometimes you can

00:19:58.200 show sportsmanship during sometimes like sometimes you can't like when you play squash it's like you

00:20:06.320 shake hands after you're done each game to like respect them and it always shows good sportsmanship

00:20:13.040 stop i'm being hit okay and then like but sometimes you don't show in like really tough

00:20:21.740 games like soccer it's just like oh i fouled you i'm just gonna step over you now right like when

00:20:29.720 you're crying on the ground in pain something like that yeah i literally was with owen recently

00:20:36.680 and i asked i asked have you ever like intentionally walked into someone's shoulder do you know what i

00:20:42.000 mean where you like walk into their shoulder and like shut and like hit them with your shoulder

00:20:45.640 and i thought he was gonna say no because he's such a nice guy and he was like yep and he did

00:20:51.780 it when he said it like he's like i don't know how he said it but he did it in just like you said in

00:20:55.740 a sports game that had high stakes and he did it to intimidate somebody on purpose so he got an and

00:20:59.920 one so he like he hit a basket got fouled i know what an and okay i'm just making well who knows

00:21:05.160 who's listening to this maybe there's a grandmother listening to what that is hit a basket got fouled

00:21:09.600 and landed the free throw and then shouldered this guy who fouled him and he did it on purpose so

00:21:14.940 yeah there's like this balance between sportsmanship and unsportsmanship that's a great

00:21:19.040 one cash up lucas your turn oh yeah also wait okay go for it whenever you're playing against

00:21:23.780 your friends you don't really have to show it because like once i kind of cooked up my friend's

00:21:28.960 dad in squash and then grittied on him so when you're really good friends you can set aside

00:21:33.580 yeah i would say like helping like during sports like if somebody gets like injured or something

00:21:41.860 like it's not like especially if it's like the other team it's not like stereotypically

00:21:50.020 masculine to like ask them like hey are you okay oh my gosh so sorry you'd be like ha ha you fell 0.97

00:21:55.960 down ah sucker i'm gonna keep playing you you suck right oh yeah like it's not like typically 0.98

00:22:01.960 accepted to like yeah on squash you probably have to like i do that a lot like if someone 0.99

00:22:07.000 hits their cells you always ask like are you okay they might not be okay but they kind of always say

00:22:13.500 that they're okay right interesting your turn anything about video games if they're also a

00:22:18.420 competitive environment oh video games it's kind of like men that's gonna be too noisy men

00:22:25.000 oh wait i'll wait for lucas to be done men are supposed to be like really tough

00:22:30.920 and just, like, destroy somebody in a video game 0.82

00:22:35.800 and then start roasting them right after.

00:22:40.880 Right, the roasting is super common in video games. 0.96

00:22:43.220 Especially in Fortnite, which kind of sucks. 0.97

00:22:44.880 Oh, your mom. 0.99

00:22:46.780 We don't need an example of chirping somebody.

00:22:49.600 Anything? Your turn, Lucas.

00:22:51.060 Yeah, I'd say for video games.

00:22:53.800 Mom, are you shushing me?

00:22:55.640 Stop shushing me.

00:22:57.700 Yeah, I'd say, guys, you know,

00:22:59.020 you're supposed to be really good at video games as well you can't just like be bad at a video game

00:23:04.480 especially if you play video games and also video games are like a really guy thing as well to do

00:23:10.580 like i mean sometimes you do hear guys who don't like play video games but like typically guys

00:23:17.760 play video games and then it's also like so few like girls who do and then there's also like

00:23:24.340 girly video games or 0.98

00:23:25.920 manly video games

00:23:28.300 or whatever you'd say.

00:23:28.580 Just to impress on Roblox.

00:23:29.920 Right.

00:23:30.540 I've actually heard a lot of guys play that.

00:23:33.540 Just saying.

00:23:35.400 I know.

00:23:36.320 But yeah.

00:23:37.760 Like, you don't typically see as many 0.97

00:23:39.760 female gamers or male gamers 0.99

00:23:41.480 in those different spaces. 1.00

00:23:44.520 Yeah.

00:23:46.020 Anything to add or next category?

00:23:47.920 Next category.

00:23:48.720 Okay, next category.

00:23:49.680 Lucas got that point again.

00:23:51.040 is

00:23:53.360 the last category.

00:23:54.960 No, second last category.

00:23:56.220 But it's 528.

00:23:58.060 So this one we're going to do one minute

00:23:59.180 and then we're going to do one minute for the last one.

00:24:01.160 I'm going to go quick.

00:24:01.700 Okay.

00:24:02.780 Second last category is

00:24:04.000 what about romance dating relationships?

00:24:06.780 I'm going first.

00:24:08.300 Okay.

00:24:09.000 So in romance,

00:24:10.260 guys are expected to like

00:24:11.620 always pay the bill

00:24:12.900 and always have enough money.

00:24:14.960 But like sometimes,

00:24:16.800 let's say 1.00

00:24:17.600 a girl tries to 1.00

00:24:20.800 they're always just pushing and shoving them off and it kind of like makes other girls look 0.91

00:24:26.800 weak and not rich right lucas i'm gonna put a very general one out there just for for dating

00:24:36.040 in general super simple one guys dating other guys that's typically like for some reason

00:24:44.200 it's become stereotypical

00:24:46.860 that like

00:24:48.020 being gay or homosexual 0.97

00:24:50.480 makes you less of a man 1.00

00:24:52.380 it makes you like a female 1.00

00:24:54.160 like if you're 1.00

00:24:56.420 and it goes both ways as well

00:24:58.400 if a guy does something 1.00

00:24:59.860 female like 1.00

00:25:01.440 you know like wears nail polish 1.00

00:25:04.260 for some reason that's gay 1.00

00:25:05.860 yeah we just burned through 0.99

00:25:08.580 it's 5.30 now and I want to make sure

00:25:10.720 you're not stressed out before your concert

00:25:11.880 so for people listening to this podcast

00:25:13.940 me and Lucas are going to keep the conversation going

00:25:15.860 but Cash Up has a prior engagement

00:25:18.220 and Lucas and I got stuck in traffic trying to get here

00:25:20.280 and so we had to say goodbye

00:25:21.680 I know it was

00:25:23.340 and then we had samosas

00:25:25.020 it's just what it is

00:25:26.800 so Cash Up say like a goodbye for us

00:25:29.240 say like a

00:25:29.960 goodbye everybody

00:25:33.180 that is not what I expected you to do

00:25:37.180 but I appreciate that

00:25:38.580 thanks for being here

00:25:40.380 thanks for hosting us

00:25:42.160 Yep. Peace, guys.

00:25:44.080 We might see you on your way out, but if not,

00:25:46.160 have a good night, okay?

00:25:47.740 Yes.

00:25:56.740 Oh, I thought you ate my samosa.

00:25:59.900 Okay, we gotta carry the team now.

00:26:01.560 We're gonna lock in.

00:26:03.400 But I'll let you eat. I'll talk a little bit while you eat.

00:26:05.440 You have to leave that final piece for me

00:26:07.420 because I haven't had any of that yet.

00:26:09.680 Thank you.

00:26:10.260 so like so sexuality has this like dual first of all guys are supposed to be into girls

00:26:15.280 but then it's also like actually here's a thing kind of related to that and maybe we'll talk

00:26:19.080 about this in a future episode that it's like you're actually it's okay to be gay it's not okay

00:26:24.560 to act gay in that way you know that like what do you mean like what do you think i mean by that

00:26:29.400 no yeah i think we had a conversation about this a while ago like i can't micah it's also because

00:26:35.540 like anything yeah anything not masculine you'll say oh my gosh that's like so gay so acting in

00:26:44.260 quotations gay by like wearing nail polish or anything like that's typically for some reason

00:26:50.760 way less accepted than actually being gay and also i find that people who identify as gay

00:26:59.020 typically you don't see doing things that like if a straight person were to do they'd be called out

00:27:08.140 for being gay like a gay person usually looks acts sounds just like a straight person you know 0.96

00:27:19.960 like they're all very different it's just about who they're attracted to but then there's these 0.98

00:27:28.520 actions that are just for some reason 1.00

00:27:30.040 so gay, that 0.98

00:27:32.260 now that I think about it, I almost never 0.99

00:27:34.360 see a gay person do. 1.00

00:27:36.940 Hmm. 0.99

00:27:38.180 Really interesting.

00:27:39.780 What else comes to mind when you think of dating, what else about dating and

00:27:42.260 relationships? That's our category right now.

00:27:44.240 Oh yeah, I'm about Keshe Up left, so I guess I automatically

00:27:46.640 win. Yeah, you're undefeated here.

00:27:48.800 Undefeated. Yeah, like Keshe Up

00:27:50.480 said, you know, the guy's always

00:27:52.500 expected to, like, pay the bill,

00:27:54.620 be gentlemanly,

00:27:56.220 gentlemanly?

00:27:58.520 be a gentleman um you know like open the door of your car also guys are like expected to be rich

00:28:05.320 you know like you gotta like splurge on your girlfriend like let them like go buy like

00:28:10.140 expensive bags or you know whatever expensive perfume whatever girls like you know and if

00:28:16.780 you're not then you're like unattractive like if you're if you're poor stereotypically you're just 0.64

00:28:22.380 like unattractive because you know the boyfriend's supposed to like buy your girlfriend like tons of

00:28:28.020 stuff like you're supposed to spoil a girlfriend like true to like a princess right and if you

00:28:32.720 can't do that just purely because like you know you might be trying your best right but some people

00:28:38.120 no matter how hard they try like they just don't have the money for that and then that's just seen

00:28:41.760 as not masculine or you're like your inspections have like an expensive car and like all that kind

00:28:49.320 of stuff yeah so we've got the heterosexuality we've got the like the wealth chivalry is that

00:28:56.540 like yeah holding that door like that kind of thing here I'll take a turn in the place of

00:29:01.660 Kashyap I guess this Kashyap this is you guys have kind of touched on this but I'd also say

00:29:06.180 like making the first move like being the one to ask being the one to like push and like you like

00:29:10.920 kind of like move things forward like there's that pressure that you're the one that's supposed to be

00:29:14.020 like the leader and making the first move I guess yeah and yeah that reminds me of like marriage

00:29:20.300 like how often do you hear that a girl proposes to the guy it's always the guy proposing to the

00:29:26.140 girl i can actually think of one instance it's a funny story my cousin who now has a fiance

00:29:33.040 this is a really cute story bought um his girlfriend a ring and he's gonna propose to her

00:29:40.060 he proposed she said yes and she had also bought a ring and was going to propose to him

00:29:45.700 whoa so that's pretty funny that's so cute um i'm not entirely sure what they did with the

00:29:52.260 they just both got an engagement ring yeah i guess they both got an engagement ring

00:29:56.480 out of it but yeah typically you don't hear about like guys i mean you're sorry girls proposing to

00:30:03.820 guys like i remember i was going to my other cousin's wedding and they did this like fun game

00:30:11.440 where you know it's like the shoe game they went back to back and had each of their shoes

00:30:16.280 and they'd like ask questions like who's better at this who did this and they'd raid their shoe

00:30:21.420 like who they thought and for both of them it was like who made the first move and like who initiated

00:30:28.380 the first kiss and who said i love you first it was both the guy and both those questions

00:30:34.120 so i feel like that's like the most stereotypical like socially accepted kind of thing yeah yeah

00:30:40.780 interesting anything else come to mind for this category dating it's often seen like if

00:30:49.160 if like a guy has like a crush on a girl they're like expected to like ask them out but if a girl

00:30:55.960 has a crush on a guy like i feel like it's like stereotypically accepted like the girl will tell

00:31:02.580 all her friends and then one of her friends will tell the guy and then the guy will ask the girl

00:31:07.000 out but the girl that would never stereotypically directly ask out a guy like you just don't really

00:31:13.800 hear of that happening so it was the guy asking them out the guy paying the guy like initializing

00:31:19.520 everything and i feel like that's also why guys get like rejected way more than girls is because

00:31:25.460 like it's not because they get rejected more it's just because girls don't ask they're always

00:31:32.360 expecting the guy to ask and start it huh speaking of which how how's how'd your date go jonathan oh

00:31:38.960 yeah yeah you haven't you haven't heard the details yet this would be a really fun thing

00:31:43.160 to include in the podcast huh yeah okay so lucas is aware that i went on a first date yesterday

00:31:49.200 i've gone on many of them and you're saying i've gone on many of them well many of not with this

00:31:54.280 specific yeah yeah i've been on many first dates and so i can't remember who asked first

00:32:01.740 to begin with actually i think i suggested what we were going to do which was grab a coffee and

00:32:06.960 then kind of stroll go for a stroll just keeping the stakes really low so we got a coffee we went

00:32:12.960 for a walk outside actually here's a funny story lucas i was late i rode this i rode my skateboard

00:32:19.260 you know me i'm not trying to walk yep so i rode my skateboard there i was like two minutes late

00:32:24.700 and i actually the like coffee place was inside a mall and i kind of knew this was going to happen

00:32:30.060 because i get pretty disoriented when i get into malls and i always forget there's like a bottom

00:32:33.800 floor a top floor and you can't tell on google maps like where is this coffee shop and everything

00:32:37.340 looks the same there's like those interactive math things well it wasn't that big of a mall

00:32:40.840 I didn't have one of those things so I was like a little bit lost and I texted her I'm like a

00:32:44.760 couple minutes late and then I wrote I'm lost and she was like texting me like do you want me to

00:32:48.300 come find you like doing like you know whatever and I also at that moment then went to the security

00:32:52.760 guard and I asked for help and then I said to this girl it's okay I just asked for help and I was

00:32:58.300 like I'm real I'm just like demonstrating like a little green flag here that like I'm a kind of guy

00:33:03.200 that like asks for help you know there's a little bit of positive masculinity like injected into

00:33:07.620 that immediate rendezvous negative masculinity counterpoint uh-huh some people would say that

00:33:14.080 that's not masculine exactly but i'm like i'm like putting out there i'm like non-stereotypical

00:33:19.140 i'm like a little bit you know on that like softer side i'm willing i'm not like other guys

00:33:23.400 you know that like people like i'm not like other girls and then like they're like the exact same

00:33:30.240 because like every girl says i'm not like other girls oh my gosh that's also a stereotype for

00:33:34.520 girls that they're not like other girls which is like a paradox of stereotypes oh you know what

00:33:41.340 i'm just you're 100 right though i was doing that i'm not like other guys thing super subtle hopefully

00:33:46.240 it worked and then yeah we spent a couple it was actually good we went for a big walk and then we

00:33:50.780 just like ended up sitting by the river and like i was like i could just sit here and talk like but

00:33:54.560 then i ended up being like okay i gotta wrap this up because i have a couple other things to do

00:33:57.860 but it was a really good conversation and um we have a lot in common and some of it's just like

00:34:03.420 interests and hobbies but then also just like our attitude about those interests and hobbies and

00:34:07.980 stuff like that i don't know if i want to give specifics but yeah it was just like a really good

00:34:11.420 conversation and i ended the date by saying i would be thrilled i used the word thrilled which

00:34:16.840 is a little bit goofy be thrilled to connect again and then i texted her this morning about

00:34:23.840 something that we talked about yesterday and she wrote back and uh and i haven't responded but i

00:34:28.960 well you should probably respond to that thanks for the dating advice yeah just saying from my

00:34:37.120 loads of experience you should totally respond do you have any ideas for my second date

00:34:40.480 mister dating advice oh second date second date i mean it's stereotypically accepted to like

00:34:46.420 go to a movie theater or like go like eat which is why i'm really surprised especially with you

00:34:51.580 who hates walking i know suggested to go on a walk i escape i don't mind walking when i'm with

00:34:56.580 somebody i'm not walking by myself i mean this is hard to say you haven't really told me anything

00:35:01.400 about her so i can't like that's true say what she would like right okay that's fair just think

00:35:06.680 like based on what she said what do you think she would like valid that's so oh my god that's so

00:35:13.380 like negative masculine the guy has to like make all the suggestions and think what she likes

00:35:17.960 that's a good point i could say what do you what do you feel like doing yeah but then it would not

00:35:23.760 be socially accepted for her to say what do you feel like doing or maybe it would be i don't know

00:35:28.200 well this is okay this is like legit so and we're like i'm kind of enjoying just this like

00:35:32.920 freelance conversation that we're having here and uh so but i'll just follow so this is like

00:35:38.340 another like thinking about like what's expected what's not expected like what's cool with like

00:35:42.560 you know anyway so i went i had this is another first date with a girl different girl a couple

00:35:46.900 months ago and i got there first i wasn't late i got there first and it was a restaurant it was a

00:35:51.480 bar and I ordered I the person came by to see if I want anything I said I'm still waiting but I

00:35:56.920 said could I get and then I was like should I order a water for her because like I don't want

00:36:01.440 her to be uncomfortable being like you know could this guy have like done something with my drink

00:36:06.000 like who knows and I was so I didn't like want to stress her out but then I also didn't want to be

00:36:10.260 rude and like get myself a water and not get her a water so I was like totally overthinking

00:36:13.900 what's just ask her if she wanted a water no but she wasn't there yet this is like before she 0.86

00:36:18.940 arrived i wanted a water and i wasn't sure if she wanted a water to be there when she arrived or to

00:36:25.180 or not what do you do any thoughts what do you think i would you know what i mean by what she

00:36:30.820 would be worried about with the water like yeah yeah yeah i would say ask her but then i also

00:36:36.040 understand like you know like not being in the situation right now i'm like oh yeah you just

00:36:42.560 ask her but like knowing that in that situation you'd probably not want to do that i i don't know

00:36:49.660 maybe i'd get a water i'd probably wait until she got there and then asked if she wants a water like

00:36:55.180 hey i got a water you want one as well okay something as well okay i ended up asking the

00:37:00.680 server who was a young who was a young woman what she thought and she said she's like you get a

00:37:06.340 water that's okay she thought it was kind of funny that i was asking okay i have another situation

00:37:10.560 another first date coffee again

00:37:13.400 it's kind of a classic first date

00:37:14.960 middle of the afternoon kind of thing

00:37:16.320 and she ordered a drink

00:37:18.560 is this like a previous date

00:37:21.340 this is a different person different date

00:37:23.320 is that

00:37:24.740 did that answer your question? yeah

00:37:26.820 and there was this like

00:37:29.060 we hadn't pre-discussed who was ordering

00:37:30.740 am I paying for her

00:37:31.740 so anyway so she ordered

00:37:34.380 a latte or whatever

00:37:35.920 and then the 0.74

00:37:37.780 barista looked at me

00:37:40.540 and then i said to her like do you want me to pay for you and she's like no no that's fine and then 0.98

00:37:45.720 i was like okay so and then so she like paid for her own coffee but then i was like that's kind of

00:37:50.960 a weird way to put it do you want me to pay for you instead of just being like can i pay this for

00:37:55.460 you or like just being like no like and not even you could also just not even ask you could just

00:37:59.680 sort of be like i'm like and then order myself and then i'll pay like there's this also kind of

00:38:03.600 dynamic of like what anyways i don't think saying do you want me to pay for you was really the right

00:38:08.200 thing to say because yeah because it sounds like doing something for you personally though if you

00:38:13.520 ever asked me that question i would say heck yeah hey that brings us to 5 45 we've been recording

00:38:19.500 for 45 minutes let's wrap up the man box thing okay i'm totally going to keep that whole digression

00:38:25.940 about dating and relationships in because i think it was super interesting totally just sounded like

00:38:29.280 a normal conversation that we have often and except this time it's just recorded true yeah

00:38:35.020 yeah um okay so here's the here's the like here's the like classic almost like word for word what i

00:38:40.980 say with students when i do the man box activity are you ready i mean you've already said this to

00:38:45.640 me when we did it okay fair enough yeah the the way i put it is like who here was surprised it's

00:38:51.960 just you right but let's just be let's just get on the same put on your podcast voice your

00:38:55.520 presentation presentation was who here was surprised by like totally dumbfounded at the

00:39:01.020 things that got put inside or outside the box and then how many people do you think raised their

00:39:04.500 hand. Zero. That's right. And then I'm like, okay, who was like, who was like, yeah, yeah,

00:39:09.400 this is like kind of obvious. Raise your hand. Yeah. And everyone raises their hands. And my

00:39:13.260 point there, and again, you've heard me say this before is what I say to students is that's actually

00:39:16.800 kind of in the, here's the podcast voice or whatever you want to call it. I'm like, that's

00:39:19.760 actually kind of interesting if you think about it, because no one ever sat you down and said,

00:39:25.800 these are the rules to manhood. You know, no one ever gave you a book or made you take a class

00:39:31.080 that was like the like this is what it means to be a man and yet we all still know and i've done

00:39:36.560 this activity i mean just did it with you and kasha but i've done this activity with thousands

00:39:40.160 of boys and young men over the years and it's the same thing every single time we all still

00:39:44.580 know these things intuitive it might be intuitive or instinct yeah intuition instincts and then

00:39:49.560 that gets to this question of like where on earth do we learn these messages so that's our last

00:39:53.480 discussion um before we close out the podcast which is let's brainstorm where do we see these

00:39:58.760 representations of what it means to be a guy what it looks like to be a guy who do we learn them

00:40:02.700 from in the yeah in the world around us oh that'll be an interesting experiment is to raise a

00:40:08.420 guy from birth but in a different world where like the roles were reversed and see how they would see

00:40:13.200 it do you want to know an interesting a really interesting kind of related thing to that i'm

00:40:17.720 gonna get this kind of wrong but i read a book recently called rebels with a cause by an ibi way

00:40:21.280 and she points out this other sociologist sociologist margaret mead who like explores

00:40:27.900 and like researches all these different cultures around the world and what she finds is that every

00:40:32.340 culture has distinct roles for what it means to be a man or what it means to be a woman and in like

00:40:39.160 there's but that being said there is a common thread that there's always a distinct role

00:40:42.760 and there is no common thread of what that characteristic actually is or what that role

00:40:46.480 actually looks like so there's some societies where it's like like it is the men who do the

00:40:52.080 child care like women that's like it's too i can't remember it's like too like i don't know it's too

00:40:59.080 whatever for women so men do it you know and there's other there's other like cultures where

00:41:03.280 like only only men ever touch fish i don't remember the details because i read this like a couple of

00:41:08.360 months ago but it was kind of fascinating i can't remember why i thought of that i might cut out that

00:41:11.820 whole thing where else do you think we see these messages and representations of manhood i don't

00:41:16.740 know in like definitely in media but also in like anything else we see just like walking around you

00:41:24.980 know you see people you see what guys are doing you might like pass the gyms you guys like working

00:41:30.720 out or you know you might like be at a restaurant and then like a you see a guy pay for pay for the 0.60

00:41:39.460 Shaq like when he's going on a date you know and then like yeah it's just kind of like I don't know 0.86

00:41:47.400 your brain just like absorbs the information it might be like partially evolutionary as well that

00:41:53.700 you like think of guys in a certain way and then like that's just like reinforced by like everything

00:41:59.500 you see around you and then your brain just kind of has this like almost instinct of like sometimes

00:42:07.020 even if you haven't like necessarily seen it happen then it's like very typically guys or

00:42:14.260 even things that really are typically guys like if you think about it like all the guy jobs you know

00:42:21.180 like electricians and like construction workers and like army they all kind of have like that

00:42:28.220 all those jobs are kind of like they have that like masculine kind of aspect to them

00:42:33.300 so if you think of masculinity in a certain way and you see these jobs where it's like only guys

00:42:39.880 and you're you're seeing how sort of similar ish they are you know doing like hard work and

00:42:44.860 whatever and then that kind of like reinforces it in your brain cool yeah really good answer

00:42:52.220 so you started with media and then it was also like but it's also like the people around us

00:42:57.160 and it's like the specific the roles the jobs like it's like this like narrative and you use the word

00:43:01.960 reinforced which i think is a really good word because it's like it's like this like layering

00:43:07.800 of reinforcing and reinforcing and for example you have like what's something really bendy

00:43:12.680 and now i'm curious to find out what's the first bendy thing that comes to mind for you

00:43:15.940 i thought of feet because i was tickling your foot earlier but

00:43:18.300 okay so you have a bendy foot and let's just say no feet are not that bendy um let's oh the first

00:43:26.160 thing that just came to mind you know those two things that are also sometimes they're like

00:43:30.500 sometimes part of straws they're like you can extend them and then they're also bendy and they

00:43:34.480 make like a i mean that's terrible representation like an accordion plastic yeah conjoining yeah

00:43:40.200 like an accordion plastic thingy so that's like the first thing that came to mind when i thought

00:43:44.380 of bendy okay so it starts out bendy and then if you reinforce it and you reinforce it and you

00:43:48.840 reinforce it like collapse it down right and it's stronger yeah and then what'll happen in the end

00:43:53.740 Is it still bendy?

00:43:55.520 I mean, I guess it could be.

00:43:57.960 But then again, I remember in health class,

00:44:02.180 there's this interesting presentation in a TED Talk that we watched

00:44:05.900 about assuming genders,

00:44:08.800 where it's human nature to look at somebody and classify,

00:44:13.820 even if it's like you know everything from birth.

00:44:19.980 Even for me, and probably even for you, Jonathan,

00:44:22.940 you look at something or somebody and even if you're not like consciously thinking about it

00:44:28.660 your brain will think look at them and think that's a girl or that's a guy even if like

00:44:35.120 you know that might not be how they identify and even if you know you shouldn't do that

00:44:42.280 your brain kind of just instinctively does it because that's just the way we evolved and

00:44:48.480 only recently have we started like only in the past i don't know a few decades even even in the

00:44:55.740 past like just decade really has it been more accepted to say well no i i'm not a guy i'm

00:45:02.800 actually a girl or i'm neither yeah i mean one thing on that is that there's been gender fluidity

00:45:09.280 in different cultures you know you know two spirit for example indigenous cultures and that

00:45:13.020 kind of thing but i get what you're saying and it's actually really interesting to think about

00:45:15.760 like the brain's like default is binary you know that like it's black or it's white you know you're

00:45:22.460 that or that and i think you're for this also this like you're in group out group like you're

00:45:27.240 either like me or you're not or you're this category or that category it is kind of interesting

00:45:31.240 to think about this like more expansiveness or like challenging these stereotypes as actually

00:45:35.820 like really trying to like challenge our default way of thinking yeah yeah i mean that is kind of

00:45:41.460 how brains function if you think about it for sure there's gray in your brain but in terms of

00:45:45.880 the default quick thinking i think yeah but also yeah neither of us are neuroscientists so like we

00:45:51.080 actually have no idea what we're talking about so but you watched a ted talk so i know i watched

00:45:55.820 a ted talk so i'd say audrey who's the person on a ted talk i think they were very knowledgeable

00:46:02.420 okay okay that brings us to like just five minutes left we were going to do the like here's something

00:46:09.020 you should know remember like i'm gonna tell you something you should know you're gonna tell me

00:46:13.640 something i should know we didn't plan this out oh yeah we didn't plan any of this out well that's

00:46:19.340 true it's been a bit of a day so let's spend like 10 seconds and try to think of like has anything

00:46:25.780 come up over the last couple of weeks like any memes jokes references movies or like what's

00:46:33.060 happening with your friends or like what's happening at school or what is it like getting

00:46:35.640 your first job like anything like that that you know adults just might not necessarily yeah think

00:46:41.460 of i've already thought of mine in rambling i thought of one from yesterday in rambling

00:46:45.760 in your rambling i've thought of one okay the first job is a very interesting one like ever since

00:46:51.780 i got that email that said like uh what my first shift would be i was simultaneously

00:47:02.160 excited and nervous like what if i go to the wrong place what if i mess something up you know

00:47:11.000 like what if i like break something or like what if i go to the wrong place what if i do the wrong

00:47:17.840 thing you know what if my supervisor or like managers just really mean and just hates me but

00:47:25.380 then i actually get there you know i was actually really lucky there's somebody on my same ferry

00:47:31.420 that I kind of followed into the side entrance,

00:47:33.100 I would have known where the specific entrance that I was supposed to go in

00:47:36.460 if I hadn't followed this person, so I'm kind of glad I did.

00:47:39.040 I probably could have just asked somebody.

00:47:41.900 Yeah, I got my uniform and everything.

00:47:44.000 I'm so lucky.

00:47:46.320 I was, like, talking to the person, and the person was like,

00:47:48.840 so, yeah, you're going to have to go meet your supervisor.

00:47:50.980 They'll, like, tell you to punch in and tell you where to go.

00:47:52.660 I was like, great, so where should I find my supervisor?

00:47:54.860 And then both my supervisors, I swear, they just teleported behind me.

00:48:00.080 I was like, oh, hello there.

00:48:02.740 So, yeah, I mean, I had met them already.

00:48:04.760 They're very nice and directed me to where I should go.

00:48:09.240 And then the people inside were all just so nice inside the place.

00:48:15.860 They were really accommodating.

00:48:18.900 So, yeah, I'd say I was nervous, but then it was actually really great going on my first job.

00:48:26.360 The time flew kind of a little bit, but also didn't, because the clock was being weird that I was looking at.

00:48:33.400 I thought it was four, but it was actually three.

00:48:36.580 So I was like, wow, I've already been here for four hours?

00:48:38.680 Oh, three hours.

00:48:39.720 Oh, wow, I've been here three hours.

00:48:42.200 So yeah, I feel like I was really nervous, and then it was actually really great.

00:48:47.280 There wasn't too much work.

00:48:48.880 It wasn't really that hard to do.

00:48:51.500 I didn't royally mess anything up.

00:48:54.400 i mean certainly i made tiny mistakes but i didn't like burn anything or like drop anything

00:49:02.640 on the floor or whatever i was actually very nervous there was two pizzas coming out of the

00:49:07.940 oven at like the same time they have like a conveyor belt oven and the conveyor is going

00:49:12.360 very slowly right so that it cooks the pizza all the way through by the time it gets through the

00:49:19.120 oven uh so it's like a very slow conveyor but these two pizzas were on like at basically the

00:49:24.120 same time but the thing was i had to cut them and it's a very small counter where you have to cut

00:49:30.260 them there's only space for one pizza so i was very stressed i did like grab the other one luckily

00:49:36.940 it's a slow enough conveyor that i was able to grab the other one cut it move it put it in the

00:49:40.800 box box it up put it to the side and like get all the toppings before before the other one

00:49:45.820 fell on the floor but i was like really scared that the pizza was just going to fall onto the

00:49:51.780 floor like i'd i've i'd seen that happen like in a video i was like i did not want this pizza just

00:49:56.860 go smack onto the floor but i got it well before i did that so i was completely fine this is such

00:50:03.940 a cool snapshot that like as an adult i think it's probably true that a lot of people listening

00:50:10.320 this like could very easily underestimate how nervous a young employee is um and because once

00:50:18.520 you've i'm sure like even two weeks from now you're going to be like that nervousness is going

00:50:22.460 to diminish and just imagine 20 years from now it wouldn't even occur to you you know in some

00:50:27.040 respects to that nervousness might be present i'm curious what how do you feel about like let's just

00:50:32.440 say you burnt like how do you think it would go if you burned a pizza or dropped a piece on the

00:50:35.660 floor now having done a shift and met your supervisors and stuff do you have a do you have

00:50:40.100 a sense of what i mean i i do know i'll have like different like i'll go to different places because

00:50:45.000 this is like an amusement park probably the worst thing would be like dropping an entire pizza on

00:50:50.580 the floor okay i feel like because it's their first day they might like cut me a bit of slack

00:50:55.060 i bet they'd be annoyed i bet i'd have to clean it up probably just remake it

00:51:00.800 i bet i'd feel probably really terrible and scared in the moment but if i looked back on it it

00:51:09.520 probably wouldn't have been that bad you know the the more senior staff like the people who had

00:51:15.280 already been there and then the manager of the place they're all really nice like chatty like

00:51:20.180 talk to me about like school and stuff when we were like bored and didn't do anything there's

00:51:24.540 one thing i'd like to add is um i never knew like what i was or i mean sometimes i did once

00:51:30.780 they told me. But the only time I actually did something without them telling me to,

00:51:36.640 partially because my parents told me I should do this, was sweeping. Unfortunately, I swept so well

00:51:42.620 that the floors got so clean that by like three or whatever, there was no point sweeping anymore

00:51:49.000 when I didn't have anything to do because the floors were already clean. So I moved on to wiping

00:51:53.380 counters and then all the counters were wiped. So the entire place was clean. My manager even

00:51:59.820 noticing that wow lucas you got this place really clean this is great i was like yeah i have nothing

00:52:05.000 to do now though you're standing there yeah i was kind of always waiting for them to tell me hey do

00:52:10.840 this like make the fries or that kind of stuff like i didn't want to just start something then

00:52:17.740 again it wasn't really a busy day so there wasn't like ever much to do we were never like scrambling

00:52:22.580 to get an order out or anything it was all just very calm you know waiting and like getting the

00:52:28.520 pizza and making the pizza and you think a big screw up could happen and you'd still be okay

00:52:35.980 yeah i mean it really depends how big of a screw up i feel like one big screw up

00:52:43.000 might be like all right somebody might get mad at me in the end it'd be all right if i did it

00:52:50.340 multiple times right like if i continuously like dropped a pizza that's lucas dropping his daily

00:52:57.400 pizza or like if i burnt if i like always like forget that fries are in the fryer and like burn

00:53:02.960 the fries or whatever or something like that like like i feel like like if like let's say i were to

00:53:09.840 make a funnel cake and then the funnel cake broke they'd probably be like oh whatever just make

00:53:13.700 another one right but then if i always mess up the funnel cakes they'd probably just be like okay

00:53:19.480 you don't get to make funnel cakes anymore i guess that still wouldn't be that bad what what did they

00:53:24.140 here's the last thing i'm curious about which is like what did they do that signals to you

00:53:27.920 like you don't have to be that nervous like you can make a couple mistakes and as long as you

00:53:33.200 don't do it all the time you're gonna be okay like how do you know that you have like a bit

00:53:37.640 more trust in your supervisors than you did before well it wasn't really a supervisor supervisor

00:53:41.640 kind of walking around but it's more like four men and like the the people who had been there

00:53:45.460 for like a year already the other workers it wasn't really them saying anything about what i

00:53:51.300 was doing it was more about how friendly they were they were very friendly they asked about

00:53:57.020 my school and stuff we had good chats you know about like planes as well like it wasn't just

00:54:04.220 a working environment it wasn't just a hey lucas we're working we're doing this and you know like

00:54:10.240 it wasn't just a strict work it was also like people who are being nice and chatty you know

00:54:16.340 like when like it was not busy at all because you know it's not like lunchtime or whatever

00:54:20.740 you know you just like chat and also because they're like really nice to be like good job or

00:54:26.520 like great or like thank you they weren't like your stereotypical like mean boss like okay do

00:54:32.180 this oh you did that so terribly how dare you burn that one part of the pizza and you know that kind

00:54:36.260 of stuff so yeah cool i love it so it's showing an interest in you being friendly yeah seeing me as

00:54:44.200 it's kind of like we what we did for like a youth class seeing me as more than just an employee

00:54:50.400 seeing me like as an actual person nice like made me feel more like welcome and included in the space

00:54:57.000 cool okay here's my thing i'm like now that i'm thinking about it i don't know if this is well

00:55:03.400 i'm curious to hear what yeah i am curious to hear what you think about this because i know

00:55:06.640 that you have personal experience with this but this is also kind of like more targeted at adults

00:55:10.240 listening to this podcast episode but i'll just tell you yesterday i came across two fifth graders

00:55:15.340 selling 3D printed items on the street corner.

00:55:20.100 You know, and I said, I was joking with some friends

00:55:21.940 that it's like the 2025 version of like a lemonade stand.

00:55:24.760 And for you, you were selling?

00:55:27.240 Cookies.

00:55:27.780 And lemonade.

00:55:28.620 Yeah, mostly cookies, sometimes lemonade yourself.

00:55:31.500 So you've personal experience with this.

00:55:33.220 I saw you once or twice while you were doing that back in the day.

00:55:36.200 I even gave you a free cookie.

00:55:37.680 Shout out.

00:55:38.360 Because I wanted to go home.

00:55:39.500 It was my last cookie.

00:55:40.840 And it was really cold.

00:55:42.460 Yeah, fair enough.

00:55:43.160 Under normal circumstances, I would not have done that.

00:55:45.040 um so i chatted with these fifth graders for a bit um just like getting the backstory of what

00:55:50.080 they were doing in that kind of thing and um and then i went and got cash and then i came back and

00:55:55.480 there's two things that i noticed one is when i came back i said i'll be right back guys i'm just

00:55:59.380 gonna go up to my house and get some cash and come back when i came back they were shocked

00:56:04.020 like they like freaked out and they were like oh my god he came back he came back it's and you know

00:56:08.420 and they're like talking to each other and they're like we really like basically they're like we've

00:56:12.160 heard it before you know i'll be right back and they were just really amazed that i had oh yeah

00:56:17.820 so my first message to add well actually i won't well i'll say this now because i started to say 0.96

00:56:21.380 my first message to adults is like don't fucking lie to kids if you're not coming back don't say 0.86

00:56:25.120 you're coming back i'm curious to hear what you have to say about that the second thing that i 0.98

00:56:28.320 noticed is a lot of the adults walking by just said no the kids were like hey do you want to

00:56:33.320 check out some 3d print they had this whole pitch thing of those like we're printing things and like

00:56:36.860 we got some cool knickknacks for your grandkids and most adults walking by a couple of them

00:56:40.960 showed an interest but like I'd say 80% of them just said no and what I was like what's missing

00:56:44.960 here is like any kind of encouragement like I can't stop you guys you know I don't have any

00:56:49.240 money or like that's not for me but like good job you know keep up the good work like I think what

00:56:53.860 you're doing is really cool like there was very little actual encouragement and I was so I'm

00:56:58.080 curious about two things one is the like oh my god he came back and the second is like does it make

00:57:04.220 a difference if someone isn't gonna stop but they still say something nice or is it like you really

00:57:08.280 just about that hustle so i am curious to hear a bit about what your perspective is on those kinds

00:57:12.080 of experiences yeah uh so for the first thing about him coming back i 100 agree the i would

00:57:20.800 say it's about a one in ten or maybe even like a five percent chance i mean occasionally it's

00:57:27.660 happened that they say i'll be right back but then i'm like closing up in 10 minutes so maybe

00:57:30.800 they just didn't get back in time but that's maybe me just being optimistic um but yeah

00:57:36.160 oftentimes adults will say hey i'll yeah i'll be right back i just have to grab some cash or i have

00:57:41.860 to go for groceries or whatever and then they just never come back sometimes they do which is really

00:57:46.980 nice sometimes you can kind of tell from the person like you can tell they're not coming back

00:57:51.220 yeah sometimes you can be like like if if they're if they're not like overly excited if they're like

00:57:57.860 oh yeah sure yeah yeah you know what i just don't you know i don't have any money on me right now

00:58:01.880 i gotta go get some cash uh yeah i'll be i'll be back soon you know i just gotta go i just

00:58:07.780 live like right over there and then they never come it's like word for word what i said um

00:58:13.340 yeah so that's maybe why they seemed suspicious about yeah interesting yeah i just have to go

00:58:19.100 it didn't even occur to me that they might think i wasn't being authentic with them oh no so many

00:58:24.660 people also this is kind of like a side point kind of attached what i've noticed is people with dogs

00:58:31.400 often never have cash on them because i guess if you're walking your dog people don't take

00:58:39.420 their wallets right because they're not going to go buy anything because you know dogs aren't like

00:58:42.480 let into spaces so i did have my dog as well you did have your dog yeah and no cash you're actually

00:58:49.700 like on the you're like very accurate with this i sold like three thousand dollars worth of

00:58:54.500 merchandise okay and what about the like encourage does it matter if people encourage you if they're

00:58:58.420 not buying something or you really just care about if they're dollars and cents i mean personally

00:59:03.640 the the selfish side of me says i just care if you give me money i don't care

00:59:09.240 you know but it is also nice you know the encouragement hi delta hi bud yeah but uh

00:59:16.440 yeah the encouragement is nice you know keep up the hustle and what makes it really nice sometimes

00:59:23.540 is

00:59:24.840 I don't know if people feel bad

00:59:28.120 I mean sometimes they feel bad

00:59:29.680 I know where you're going with this

00:59:30.660 people just give me money

00:59:34.100 sometimes 1.00

00:59:34.820 or like nice old ladies 1.00

00:59:38.360 like oh I don't want anything 1.00

00:59:39.700 you have some money

00:59:40.900 so that can be really nice

00:59:43.300 and also one thing is

00:59:45.340 often like

00:59:47.600 in quotations like stereotypically

00:59:50.180 scary looking guys

00:59:52.540 have like

00:59:54.460 multiple, on multiple occasions

00:59:56.320 have like came up to me and

00:59:57.260 shh, Delta.

00:59:59.680 That was Delta. He's impersonating

01:00:02.360 a scary looking guy.

01:00:04.500 We're almost done, Delta. Stay quiet.

01:00:07.200 She had like

01:00:07.700 quote unquote scary persons like come up 1.00

01:00:10.520 to me and they're like, hey dude

01:00:12.480 what's up? Oh, you're like

01:00:14.440 I respect the hustle, you know, like

01:00:16.380 great work. Here, have some money

01:00:18.140 let me get some. And they're like really great

01:00:20.460 guys it's it's like really nice to see like it's kind of like completely opposite you see a nice

01:00:26.540 person coming they're like oh yeah i just have to go get some money i'll i'll be back never come

01:00:31.240 back and then there's like one person who just comes and literally buys my entire stock of

01:00:38.940 cookies that did actually happen once i had like a full stock and they're just like okay empty them

01:00:44.800 i want them all and multiple occasions like a big guy in a truck pulled it up and just like

01:00:52.000 i respect the hustle and like handed me like a 50 bill interesting it makes me wonder if there's

01:00:56.620 like a crossover with these like you know that like masculine stuff of like making money and

01:01:01.420 that grind set like they're trying to support you okay delta is telling us it's dinner time

01:01:06.080 because it is six o'clock you've actually gotten above and beyond lucas so thank you for holding

01:01:09.420 down the conversation without kashiap any final what's your final like send off for the the like

01:01:14.560 The outro music is going to come on right after whatever you have to say.

01:01:17.740 Go for it.

01:01:18.840 Don't lie to children.

01:01:20.620 It's a bad idea.

01:01:23.180 You heard it here first.

Breaking the Boy Code - March 05, 2026

Lucas and Kashyap Discuss the Man Box

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