Breaking the Boy Code - The Intersection of Boyhood and Race

00:00:00.000 Will I be allowed to hold fast to my dreams?

00:00:04.740 Will everyone smile along with me?

00:00:08.380 Back deep into my eyes, envisioning the great man

00:00:13.160 that I have the potential to be? 0.93

00:00:15.880 Or will you only see blackness in holding me?

00:00:20.920 Do you see me?

00:00:22.120 Do you see me?

00:00:23.320 Do you see me?

00:00:24.120 Do you see me?

00:00:25.200 Do you see me?

00:00:26.120 Do you see me?

00:00:27.520 Do you see me?

00:00:30.000 That intro was from a spoken word poem

00:00:47.840 performed by a group of boys

00:00:49.460 at a school called Success Academy

00:00:51.560 in the Bronx in New York.

00:00:54.320 And that section in particular

00:00:55.540 is a monologue written by their theater teacher,

00:00:57.600 Sentelle Harper.

00:00:58.820 It's meant to drive the message that Black Lives Matter,

00:01:01.860 especially the lives of these students that he's worked with.

00:01:05.560 In a blog piece back in 2016, he wrote,

00:01:08.900 I also wanted to tell the boys, my boys,

00:01:11.740 through the words of the piece that they are a gift,

00:01:14.000 that they matter, their voice matters,

00:01:16.540 their talent matters, their intelligence matters.

00:01:20.480 And what better way to share that gift than theater?

00:01:25.420 That's kind of what we're doing with the podcast as well.

00:01:28.260 And we're specifically focusing on the inner lives of a group of boys of color, Sudanese, Congolese, Sri Lankan, Jamaican, Indigenous, Eritrean, to better understand the intersection of their race and their experience of being a boy.

00:01:43.600 At the same time that Santel Harper wrote that poem, half of the students who were expelled in these boys' school district were Black.

00:01:53.120 Almost half of all Black students in Toronto get suspended from school before they graduate.

00:01:59.200 There's also been news headlines since then about the rise in the suicide rates of young black men.

00:02:05.020 I think it was in 2020 that the overall suicide rate in the United States, for example, decreased by 3%.

00:02:10.360 But at the same time, black males had the highest increase of suicide rates among any demographic, increasing nearly 80%.

00:02:19.500 and recently there's also been lots of research in large school boards in canada

00:02:26.040 on anti-black racism in the school system

00:02:28.420 i could i mean i could spend an entire episode just talking about that i'll quickly say there's

00:02:35.660 qualitative interviews with middle school and high school students in the peele district in

00:02:39.320 ontario the students who said for example quote i feel like most teachers they just go into the

00:02:46.760 job thinking, I'm going to sit 30 students in a classroom and then I'm going to teach them

00:02:50.680 this. And if they have a problem during class, they can talk to me and that's it. But it's way

00:02:56.640 more than that. You have to actually care and put in the time and emotion and actual work to help us.

00:03:03.020 Another quote was, I feel teachers need to understand the type of position we are in

00:03:07.640 as black students. They choose the system. They just assume things about us and that's just not 0.99

00:03:13.780 okay. And one more was a quote from a middle schooler who said, my problem is with people

00:03:20.560 who aren't black, but don't understand what it means to be black. So this is about not making

00:03:28.000 assumptions. This is about approaching boys with care and openness and curiosity and giving them

00:03:35.780 that time to truly understand, or at least attempt to understand what they've experienced,

00:03:41.620 what they're going through and what they face that's unique to them and there will be more to

00:03:47.280 this as the season you know goes on this is just where we started in that first recording session

00:03:53.380 so when it comes to your identity i think you mentioned you just want to be able to like sort

00:04:10.640 to speak off the top and that's fine so let's go let's shoot so what are things that you like about

00:04:17.680 your race so it's easier to connect with like people of color because like we all have like

00:04:24.300 kind of the same stuff that's going around around like around us so like it's easier to connect with

00:04:30.000 people of color and like just people but if i could change one thing it would be the privilege

00:04:36.440 because like we don't get as much privilege as caucasian people because slavery and stuff like

00:04:42.120 yeah okay what does that mean like what does what does privilege look like privilege is something 1.00

00:04:47.780 that like you're born with status kind of like caucasian so some women they have to have beauty 1.00

00:04:55.860 like white women is like they were told to bleach their skin and stuff like that like they're forced 1.00

00:05:01.980 to do something so we don't have the privilege or rights to like speak for ourselves

00:05:06.300 something i love of being a person of color is like you're not like you're not free but like

00:05:19.660 i mean like you're not free but like when you like with just your friends or like this family

00:05:23.900 at a barbecue or something it's like a nice feeling but like it's just family you're enjoying

00:05:29.820 yourself like i love those but something i wish i could change was probably like people's mindsets

00:05:38.620 about how they feel of color like if you walk into a store and you're like pushing the color

00:05:44.780 and then people get dirty looks in the store security keep following you around to see if

00:05:49.900 you're going to steal something stuff like that so yeah do you guys do you guys experience that

00:05:56.380 like regularly okay can i tell you a story yeah so you know the shoppers junk by my e-center

00:06:02.300 me and my siblings went there to go get my mom like a perfume so they did like person was pulling

00:06:08.140 us around and everything thinking that we're gonna steal me and my sister and her friend so then she

00:06:14.860 we asked her like why is she doing that and then she said all right i'll get the security guys to

00:06:20.700 like watch you because we're like you can't kick us out and stuff and then they're like okay the

00:06:25.260 security guys could watch us but it was like i think it was just because like we're people of

00:06:30.140 color so they just wanted to make sure that we weren't stealing or something

00:06:35.420 yeah um you know the dog i'm in your sherburne yeah yeah the other one in front of us uh saying

00:06:41.900 and yeah i forgot the place but like i was there once i was getting like a postcard like from my

00:06:47.180 mom or something like that because it was someone's birthday she always put money in there for them

00:06:51.420 and the security guard kept following me around

00:06:54.620 like i kept walking around the store trying to find them

00:06:57.900 and he kept following me around like there was no one else around

00:07:01.180 yeah he kept following me around over and over again

00:07:04.260 and then i asked him why he was following me

00:07:06.900 and he was straight up honestly he was like i'm afraid

00:07:10.360 you're gonna steal something

00:07:11.800 wow

00:07:12.500 with it. Another thing is they judge like people of color by like past events because like if

00:07:24.500 somebody that's like you know 9-11 how people bombed the towers they're gonna think that

00:07:32.180 like that race is gonna do something like that against them so like they think that

00:07:37.220 what experience causes another same experience yeah how about you adrian uh me um i think for

00:07:47.780 when it comes to people following me around for sure i think to be completely honest with you

00:07:52.260 it's something i'm still working on right now because sometimes i feel like i'd like over

00:07:55.540 compensate when i'm in the store like i'm not the type of person who like if someone if i know like

00:08:00.820 a shopkeeper is following me or whatever i'm like yo what are you doing but i'd be extra cautious

00:08:06.580 like i always have my hands kind of out so they know that i'm not taking anything if i look for

00:08:12.340 something i usually just like take it and put it back but yeah i think i've experienced it i think

00:08:18.300 within a month i'll experience it maybe like once or twice when i'm in the store and it's just

00:08:24.580 draining it's just tiring to have to have that going on in my mind to think about all the time

00:08:28.980 you know so yeah i definitely experience it regularly i think one thing i would change

00:08:34.920 i think similar to what you mentioned it's like the thoughts that or you well what you mentioned

00:08:39.400 like the thoughts that people have about like black people because i don't know do you guys

00:08:43.960 ever face when you're you're walking down the street and there's like someone like ahead of you

00:08:50.180 who's like not black and you're like i have moments where like i want to pass them but also

00:08:56.080 don't want to scare them so i like slow down or start early after i cross the street to be able

00:09:01.800 to go by them i wish i could change that because it's like i don't know if like i'm overthinking

00:09:06.080 i don't want to scare someone calling by us because i'm black but that's something that

00:09:10.540 happens to me regularly too so that's one thing to change it's like how people the thoughts that

00:09:15.700 people have about us you know yeah like that happens a lot like especially by parliament

00:09:23.080 like i have to cross the street and then like i have to go all the way to the other stop

00:09:27.300 with, like, the stoplights.

00:09:29.320 Then I have to walk back down

00:09:31.080 because, like, people are just in my way

00:09:33.080 on the other street, and it's just annoying.

00:09:35.360 So, like, yeah.

00:09:38.560 All right.

00:09:39.060 Any other thoughts when it comes to what you like about your race

00:09:41.100 or your culture, challenges that you face,

00:09:43.660 or if you're able to change one thing

00:09:46.780 about, like, how the world sees your race or culture?

00:09:53.700 They see us as thugs.

00:09:56.100 Mm.

00:09:57.300 and gangsters, or people just that like violence.

00:10:05.300 And because we live in like a neighborhood

00:10:08.120 that has a dark past,

00:10:09.860 they think that everybody in this neighborhood

00:10:12.400 is like the other people that used to like do guns

00:10:15.920 and stuff like that, gun violence.

00:10:18.540 Look, if you had like one message,

00:10:19.760 if you, if being aware of that,

00:10:22.820 if you had like, if you had like 30 seconds

00:10:26.260 change the minds of people like i gave you 30 seconds like you can say anything to anyone

00:10:31.060 listening right now when it comes to what you're talking about what would you say equality is key

00:10:37.380 because there's a lot of people that just don't feel that they're acknowledged because of their

00:10:44.340 color because they get judged off other people and what they've done

00:10:50.580 oh okay thank you so another thing i wanted to

00:10:57.880 bring up before we move on to our question box

00:11:01.660 you talked a bit about being a boy and what that means you talked about being

00:11:09.380 within your race okay it's being black and what that means how do these do these two interact

00:11:16.820 like being a boy and being black how do they react and how do they interact for you how so 0.88

00:11:22.540 so some people think that black males are gangsters if they sometimes when my pants fall

00:11:32.060 down a bit like they think i'm a gangster once i was on the street car i was getting up with my

00:11:36.920 sister and my brother and like we're we had a dog with us on the street car they felt like we were

00:11:43.100 gangsters or something because you don't know how you get a lot of dogs on the street but they have

00:11:47.420 to be on a leash i had a small dog named mocha it was like a black like shizu and then like we had

00:11:55.820 it was like kind of like a we had him for like two months it was just like to watch my friend's dog

00:12:01.500 well my mom's first dog they found out we're gangsters or something but yeah it was kind of

00:12:07.740 scary because they were like just trying to like beat my brother up or something i don't know what

00:12:12.220 they were trying to do to him they're like getting all around him and stuff and he had like a crook's

00:12:18.260 jersey on so he looked like he was a gangster wow so being black being male and like the clothes

00:12:24.880 that you wear to all those things present as being gangster depending on where you are yes

00:12:30.020 and they seem like the area that like we got on at so like they would assume that we're a part of

00:12:37.500 the like care life or something yeah or if you've done something okay

00:12:42.200 well any thoughts yeah definitely like marie said being a black male is like

00:12:50.000 depending on what you wear depending on how you sound how you act

00:12:53.520 it all like ties up together like it makes a profile in people's heads of

00:12:59.280 who you are definitely like who you are

00:13:01.940 I know native culture, like, so once me, my cousin, we went to a store, he has a native status card, he was telling me about, like, how, like, there's celebrations and stuff, like, the hoop dance, and that there used to be gatherings where they cook, like, where all the fishermen used to come and cook food for, like, the whole village, he was telling me, like, a bunch of stories about, like, how they celebrate.

00:13:30.520 So, I've been to a powwow before, it was like a special powwow, like there was police there, like, it was not to like, arrest anybody, it was just like they were partying to like, shoot a powwow.

00:13:42.240 And there was military guys, they brought a tank, so we gotta go inside the tank.

00:13:47.080 Oh, wow.

00:13:47.800 and then i was like eight years old all right so i didn't it was kind of embarrassing to like do the

00:13:54.120 dance in the powwow but my parents were forcing me to go do dancing with my sister's friend

00:14:00.120 which she's native too so i had to dance like in the circle and yeah it's the most embarrassing

00:14:07.160 moment but it was fun okay they had good food there too okay so would you go to another powwow

00:14:12.760 depends if it's like that one and i and i'm getting forced to do stuff there

00:14:19.980 like those massive castles and stuff like that you know that was fun

00:14:23.400 so yeah i'll go to another one you mentioned you were jamaican as well is there anything

00:14:29.480 there when it comes to celebrating so my dad's side we don't really talk to him because my dad

00:14:34.580 passed away but they send us letters and stuff for christmas and special occasions and we like

00:14:41.200 reach out to them but like we don't really know much like much about like that side

00:14:46.800 about jamaicans and stuff but we do but we do love jamaican food okay favorite type of jamaican

00:14:52.480 food oh salt fish and aki or oxtail well that's africa well yeah oxtail and baby curry goat okay

00:15:02.000 solid thank you shankamari you all yourself um i don't know much but like a little something

00:15:12.480 me and my family do sometimes like we invite my cousins over and we have like a big barbecue

00:15:21.280 it's like it's really fun i eat all the food mostly like there's like no one eats that much

00:15:25.920 i eat everything yeah but it's actually fun so cool next question we got in the question

00:15:30.720 box for y'all let me see here who is one role model who has the same racial identity as you

00:15:40.400 that you look up to and why

00:15:42.960 my dad because he's a father figure in my life and like i admire him tell me more why

00:15:53.280 because like my dad's an honest hard-working man he can be funny at times and really serious at

00:16:01.820 times okay i have a lot of people but i want to like so i have a cousin named kiki he's mostly

00:16:11.740 native i'm not sure if he has anything else in him but like he's like he kind of takes care of me

00:16:19.520 know like one of my parents like our home he's like a kind of like a a big big brother that like

00:16:28.240 tells gives me advice and stuff and he really helps me when i'm like

00:16:34.960 just like down and like yeah he's just a fun person to be around and like he he's just a cool

00:16:41.760 person oh that's cool it's cool that you chose people in your lives as your as your role models

00:16:49.200 Like, people would usually go for, like, a huge celebrity or a historical figure.

00:16:53.560 But it's cool that, like, your dad and your cousin was able to have, like, such an impact on you.

00:16:59.320 Okay.

00:17:02.560 And I have one more question.

00:17:06.060 What is something that you're worried about in terms of growing up?

00:17:13.100 Simple.

00:17:14.020 High school.

00:17:15.340 Why?

00:17:16.280 Because high school is terrifying.

00:17:18.040 Like, it's hard. I have to study.

00:17:22.400 Yeah, because I've never studied in my life.

00:17:25.080 And I still somehow pass with good grades.

00:17:29.100 And yeah, high school is just, like,

00:17:31.020 like, high school is where people mostly distance from all their friends.

00:17:34.600 But you might have, like, a couple friends that you knew from when you were a kid.

00:17:38.860 But, like, it's real life.

00:17:44.160 That's a hard question, but I want to say, like,

00:17:48.040 transitioning into high school like the summer because like it's gonna be hectic like you're

00:17:53.900 trying to find like stuff like to get your mind off high school it's like when you first go to

00:18:00.400 high school you're gonna feel relieved that's what my brother says but like it's very hectic

00:18:04.780 like the first week of like i'm about to go back to high school that's what i'm scared about

00:18:10.080 because high school seems like it's actually gonna be very hard like for my brother's work

00:18:16.240 i looked at his work once yeah i see so i mean it was like he was doing math and it was all like

00:18:22.320 letters yeah yes it was all letters like i just i see like maybe four numbers and the whole thing

00:18:30.240 and literally um about i was at my cousin she's in grade 12 now i saw her doing some work all i

00:18:35.760 saw was aerodynamics to the power of three plus a y and z i i asked to give up at that point so

00:18:43.760 with that is it you mentioned a lot about like the work it's like the work that's your biggest

00:18:49.200 concern i think you mentioned a bit about like having to step away from friends a bit too

00:18:53.440 are you worried about like the social dynamics or like your friendships like

00:18:58.800 if you don't if you're alone you're not making it out of high school intact emotionally say it again

00:19:05.600 if you're like alone in high school you're not making it in one piece mentally and emotionally

00:19:11.600 it's clear it'll be fine but emotionally mentally not a chance why not because like

00:19:17.540 you know it's gonna be there with you like you're just by yourself like being in a

00:19:24.260 what's that what's called again like an instant solitary yeah solitary being in solitary confinement

00:19:32.680 uh if you try to go if you try to go through it alone that's how it feels like yeah i've been

00:19:37.140 for four years too, so you can hire some folks.

00:19:40.140 My brother, he had all his friends that had one grade lower than him.

00:19:46.140 Like, most of them, maybe one or two friends that had one grade over him.

00:19:51.140 So, like, when he had to leave that school to go to his new school,

00:19:56.140 it was like, he had, like, there was nobody really there.

00:20:01.140 And it was, it looked like it was hard for him.

00:20:04.140 like he came home so early now he comes home like later on in the day because he's chilling with his

00:20:10.060 friends after school sometimes he'll you know just like sleep over at their house or something like

00:20:16.300 that or go to their house but yeah it was like hard the first week for him because like

00:20:21.820 or not yeah because like nobody was really there until he made like two friends

00:20:34.140 If you work with young people, you know, you're an educator or a coach or a volunteer, I just

00:20:40.440 want to say two things. First of all, I appreciate you to be spending, you know, your free time

00:20:46.840 listening to boys' voices and thinking about how to support their well-being and positive

00:20:50.860 development and also to show up for them day in and day out. That's huge. Second of all, I know

00:20:57.600 you're probably hungry for training, for resources. I mean, that's where the most passionate and

00:21:03.600 committed educators I know are at. So listen, we've been developing this for years now. A series of

00:21:08.860 professional development sessions on positive masculinity, mental health and well-being,

00:21:14.660 anti-feminist influences like Andrew Tate, and consent education with boys. All tied to the

00:21:21.040 NextGen Manual Program Guide. This past school year, 100% of participating educators said they

00:21:26.760 learned something new and that it was relevant to their work with students. 92% of them said that

00:21:31.540 they felt like they had a clear actionable next step to put something into action. And 70% of

00:21:36.580 them actually did be the one to make a difference for the boys in your school. Become a champion

00:21:42.160 of the next generation of men at nextgenmen.ca slash mentors.

00:21:52.600 So let's do three minutes of writing down notes for a new topic, which is your race. Okay, so

00:22:00.320 writing down like any here there's more paper here

00:22:03.220 actually if you need more

00:22:05.380 alright

00:22:06.740 so like what

00:22:08.920 phrases, notes, memories,

00:22:11.440 pictures, words

00:22:13.360 that come to mind when you think of your experiences

00:22:15.400 with your racial identity

00:22:16.540 so anything

00:22:18.500 that comes to mind

00:22:20.760 jotting down notes for three minutes

00:22:23.700 okay you said what are what are things that come in mind yeah when you think about your

00:22:32.680 experiences with your race it's gonna be i like this topic cool with your race yeah yeah

00:22:38.540 so you're Sri Lankan if I'm not mistaken so what comes to mind when you think about

00:22:44.640 that part of your identity oh like what other people think or what I think but it could be

00:22:49.900 both write down all of the above so much stereotypes happen to my mom oh yeah yeah

00:22:58.920 people think my mom is Muslim so people think she's like a terrorist yeah that's

00:23:05.200 it that's a much it what's her name I don't watch the video yeah he said it

00:23:11.800 was like doing slams like yeah yeah there was this girl that was talking I

00:23:17.080 I forgot her name, but, like, she was talking about her, like, two sides

00:23:21.260 and how, like, people think she's a terrorist when she wears a hijab

00:23:25.840 or something like that, and, yeah.

00:23:28.560 We did our spoken word.

00:23:30.240 Yeah, we did our spoken word.

00:23:30.880 Nice.

00:23:31.780 I want to hear it.

00:23:32.480 I got a level four.

00:23:33.500 I got a level four as well.

00:23:34.860 Okay, we have to.

00:23:35.680 Can we do that next week?

00:23:36.640 Can we hear your poem?

00:23:37.400 What did you write your poem about?

00:23:38.680 I wrote about systemic racism. 1.00

00:23:41.120 Shit. 1.00

00:23:41.780 And mine is about racism, like, how, like, the racism flows. 0.99

00:23:47.080 okay we've got to do a slam we'll do i'll do one all three of you will do one but yeah let's

00:23:52.100 discuss this so what do you similar question to the first one but like what do you like what do

00:23:56.120 you like about identifying as about experiencing your race like what are your favorite parts about

00:24:00.900 that part of your identity yeah it's just cool being a shulankan you get you get to learn different

00:24:07.760 thing like um there's like this uh necklace thing kind of it's similar to a chain and a necklace

00:24:17.200 type of thing where like you put it in like november i put it once in like grade two and

00:24:23.680 then my dad took me to india and and there's this place called it's called sabri mala like

00:24:30.880 it's a religious temple so like i had to walk bare feet all the way to the temple

00:24:36.480 and it was like pretty far and i had to walk all the way back down wow yeah that sounds like a

00:24:41.920 really cool experience how much like kilometers it's it's pretty long though it takes like two

00:24:48.080 days to go go to the thing with barefoot and then back two days down yeah um what's the necklace so

00:24:54.480 i get the tempo that sounds like a really cool experience what about the necklace what is that

00:24:57.360 it's like you have to be vegetarian or like kind of like yeah you gotta be vegetarian as in like

00:25:04.720 You can't eat Thai food, you have to eat homemade food, you can't eat meat, you can't drink milk.

00:25:12.760 You just basically can't eat things that are basically harming animals.

00:25:17.300 And this is...

00:25:18.240 What about eggs?

00:25:19.080 You just kind of live like a god life.

00:25:21.540 A god life, yeah.

00:25:22.400 Yeah.

00:25:22.740 And that's in November or that's all year?

00:25:24.940 November.

00:25:25.960 Okay, so it's sort of like a fast kind of thing that you do.

00:25:28.140 It's for two months.

00:25:28.940 We do it for two months.

00:25:30.120 Okay, does it have a name?

00:25:31.100 uh there's this god the the name of the necklace is is a god name called uh it's pretty interesting

00:25:43.160 yeah that is interesting yeah so those are two things that stand out to you as things you like

00:25:47.480 about being shalakan yeah and also i i at home i get to do like there's this bow we get to uh ring

00:25:53.500 and then i have to do like what's the thing called the you know how in class we were like talking

00:25:59.000 about the news and culture and then how like they do the what it's like it gives you a smell there's

00:26:06.140 like this thing burnt yeah i get to do it and then we do it all around our house and then yeah

00:26:11.580 cool really cool all right what about either of you what do you like about for me what i like

00:26:19.200 about being uh congolese is uh well i never i never been there before i was like i was born

00:26:25.400 i stayed in canada my whole life but like um i eat i eat some food that um from congo like fufu

00:26:34.000 uh um and other things like that and it's like it's it's really good i i just wonder what it's

00:26:43.080 like if i go there but like i have to find out new things because i haven't even crossed the

00:26:48.760 border yet i haven't traveled but i i have my passport though but like i'm just anxious to

00:26:53.740 know what it's like because the food that my mom made that from there is really good so I wonder

00:26:58.720 what other food is there over there yeah the food from my from my uh parents they're actually pretty

00:27:05.840 good nice they're like you know like curry it's like I'm used to it and then the curry just next

00:27:12.700 level my mom makes curry every day Sadiq what about you what do you like about being Sudanese

00:27:18.440 I really like being Sudanese because we have, like, it's, like, a big part of our country.

00:27:24.100 Like, sometimes there's these kids playing outside bare feet, and sometimes there's, like, these little thorns.

00:27:31.940 Sometimes people step on it.

00:27:34.080 And that's not what I like about it.

00:27:35.480 That's what I hate about it.

00:27:37.580 And, like, I like how, okay, this is what I don't like.

00:27:42.760 At nighttime, there's always, like, these, like, wild dogs, like, scavenging at nighttime.

00:27:47.760 i heard of that they're like they're like because my mom me and my mom my mom and i went to like a

00:27:54.580 store to get some groceries and then when we came back there was like seven dogs at our house barking

00:27:59.380 and stuff so we went through the back door oh damn yeah so you've been to celand okay and isn't that

00:28:06.640 isn't that type of situation in sofia too yeah yeah what i like about my culture is that people 0.77

00:28:13.720 there are very religious and I like how they're they're very nice and my country's like it's safe

00:28:22.240 but like it's like it's like 20 crimes a year oh yeah 20 crimes a year yeah Toronto has so much

00:28:31.060 crime I know but like 20 crimes that's really safe it's a safe country and yeah that's what 0.61

00:28:37.240 I like about it and what do you like about Islam I like how we can't we have to do stuff that's

00:28:43.080 very like good we have to do good deeds and stuff nice yeah you sound pretty you sound like you feel

00:28:49.920 pretty grounded by that stuff anything else before we move to the next question uh well you know how

00:28:57.500 i talked about how like i go to this temple in india uh-huh yeah the people say that it's like

00:29:03.780 a god religious type of belief that like the god actually like he just stayed in some kind of

00:29:11.300 statue and then later there was like a temple just created really cool yeah yeah i just want

00:29:18.260 to know more about it yeah well there's lots there's definitely lots to learn about that

00:29:22.880 yeah that's really cool okay what what about what it's challenging about either identifying

00:29:29.560 as the races that you just shared or being identified what do you find challenging yeah 1.00

00:29:35.140 it's how like Sri Lankans are like unknown yeah um what I mean by unknown is like let's say you go 1.00

00:29:42.420 outside and like outside from the school area so let's say you didn't know that she there was like 1.00

00:29:48.800 Sri Lankans in the school all that stuff you're just going outside and then you look at the people

00:29:54.000 and then you have friends that are like pretty much not Sri Lankan it's like it's just the 0.99

00:30:00.160 popularity of Sri Lankans are like low in Canada and I recognize it so that's why I want to make it

00:30:07.700 I want to be seen as a Sri Lankan so like other Sri Lankans can be inspired and then achieve their

00:30:15.880 goal of becoming like a soccer player like any sports player or any type of job. Interesting.

00:30:23.800 what's like what's like challenging about my culture and my religion is like

00:30:27.920 it's a little bit like challenging and a little bit like controlling kind of

00:30:32.100 but like i'm still gonna follow it to my religion it's what i was born to do so i'm just gonna

00:30:40.220 follow it and yeah yeah fair enough and i sometimes i get like stereotyped at the mall

00:30:47.440 because I used to be like my skin was a little bit darker before like in grade five kind of so and

00:30:55.180 I had really I had a really big afro and like when I walk into the store like the like some guards

00:31:01.180 would just kind of watch me a little bit and see what I what I'd like trying to take because I

00:31:05.840 always try to take like a soda and buy it and then go home so then like they'd kind of just

00:31:11.380 watch me to see what i was doing and yeah and these suspicious activities yeah right so being

00:31:17.820 kind of watched yeah it's challenging yeah i don't know and also i realized that like 0.95

00:31:24.280 cultures like muslim like muslim yeah uh it replace it replaces the the country your parents

00:31:32.480 are from because let's because i have a friend his name is honda i first i thought he was he

00:31:38.840 was like Muslim I thought he was from Bangladesh or like Pakistan and then later he comes to me

00:31:44.660 and told me that he's Sri Lankan so I was like I was shocked you made assumptions no what I mean

00:31:51.860 but I was like I didn't know you stereotyped no because he was Muslim you should have walked up

00:31:56.980 and asked him I did I asked but you said I thought he was no actually no at first I was like I was 0.99

00:32:05.060 like that's what I thought and then I go up to him and ask him if you like him you just you can't be

00:32:09.900 just thinking okay Vesta what about you what do you find challenging no for me it's not like I

00:32:14.840 don't really find anything like challenging it's just but I just have like it's not it's because 1.00

00:32:21.640 like um there's like the good thing is that like there's a lot of Congolese in the NBA and things

00:32:28.180 like that and there's a lot of them that are known so like I haven't really found something that was 1.00

00:32:32.880 challenging I just found like the good the good part I didn't find like the

00:32:37.000 cons I only found the pros what about how they think about Congolese like no

00:32:41.620 what do you think right yeah what people think about them it's not like

00:32:47.040 democratic so what Sadiq said like how they like like they like deal yeah like

00:32:52.560 like they're like suspicious because like because of our skin color things

00:32:56.500 like that because they're black but it's like it's like they treat us like

00:33:02.460 differently like other people have like more privilege you know sort of we like privilege

00:33:08.220 should be like banned like yeah equality yeah yeah because we should all be treated the same you know

00:33:15.660 yeah yeah what about the feelings of like so actually you talked about being kind of invisible

00:33:22.540 or your culture being invisible what how does that make you feel like an invisible man there's

00:33:27.420 There's this book called The Refugee.

00:33:30.760 There is this, it was a guy from Syria, I think.

00:33:35.680 I don't know.

00:33:36.560 Like, he's from Syria.

00:33:37.700 And, like, when there's, like, there's, like, big issues that happen there.

00:33:42.720 Right.

00:33:43.040 So, like, he wants to be invisible at the same time he doesn't want to.

00:33:47.940 So, for me, it's, like, me being invisible, invisible.

00:33:52.560 Because I walk there, I go out there, like I said before.

00:33:57.420 before in our podcast, that people think of me as a Muslim and an Indian

00:34:03.620 based on, like, what I look like, and, yeah.

00:34:07.420 Yeah.

00:34:07.900 That's like you thought about Hamza, right?

00:34:09.660 Yeah.

00:34:13.360 Sadiq, what about you?

00:34:14.140 What does it feel like to be watched so carefully

00:34:18.180 when you're just trying to buy a soda?

00:34:19.380 What does that feel?

00:34:20.200 It doesn't feel really good because I'm not allowed to, like,

00:34:23.160 And it just makes me think that they think I'm going to rob the store.

00:34:27.620 I'm going to take this item from the store and run off without paying.

00:34:33.520 Or like a gangster.

00:34:35.360 Yeah.

00:34:35.760 Like the stereotype.

00:34:38.080 You just look at you guys as a beast or something.

00:34:41.940 The words are so powerful.

00:34:45.440 Stereotype, privilege, microaggression.

00:34:48.860 So powerful.

00:34:51.980 Okay.

00:34:53.160 They, like, put, like, a title on you, basically.

00:34:56.480 And how does it feel they had a title put on you?

00:34:59.640 It's bad because, like, you don't see other people that are getting stereotyped.

00:35:04.980 Exactly. 1.00

00:35:05.460 And, like, it's, like, why do they feel the need that they should do it to BIPOC people? 1.00

00:35:13.460 Because, like, we haven't did anything wrong or anything. 0.99

00:35:16.560 But, like, although there were some people who, like, did something bad, 1.00

00:35:21.280 it's not all of them that are that are bad so one like so one BIPOC person does something bad 0.72

00:35:27.400 then people think every BIPOC person then they have a fixed idea yeah and they based everyone

00:35:32.760 off of what that one person did yeah basically like what we talked about in the last podcast

00:35:37.960 when we were seeing like like how the girls think about the the um the boys slash men and how like

00:35:44.040 they had a bad experience and they think all boys are like that it's like basically they're doing 0.93

00:35:49.000 the same thing for BIPOC people. Yeah, and you'd rather be known than judged. 0.99

00:36:09.000 All right, how do you feel about the prompts, about the questions?

00:36:14.120 I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't think I'm recording if you want it. I could

00:36:17.240 I don't have to keep it.

00:36:18.560 Well, it's kind of like simple questions, but it's like a hard question.

00:36:23.440 Like, it's hard to answer, but it's hard to ask.

00:36:27.940 I mean, easy to ask.

00:36:30.020 So, like, if I wanted to ask you, you would have to, like, wait two minutes to, like, find your answer.

00:36:35.760 Yeah.

00:36:36.040 Because, like, you don't think about that often.

00:36:40.540 But, yeah, it took me a while to think about all the questions.

00:36:44.740 good idea okay yeah i really like your answers i really like all your answers and your responses

00:36:51.760 yo how are you doing how do you find the questions um i found them inspiring how so

00:37:00.860 because like in real like people think we're kids so no one will ever ask us this type of questions

00:37:07.140 So to be asked these questions

00:37:09.460 It's actually inspiring

00:37:11.120 So

00:37:12.820 Last thing is like

00:37:15.340 Do you have any like last words or thoughts

00:37:17.360 That you want to share before we wrap up

00:37:20.080 Okay, my last words are

00:37:21.860 Stay in school

00:37:23.040 Have fun

00:37:24.420 And finish more years

00:37:25.960 Lock out people that say you can't do certain things

00:37:29.940 And prove them wrong

00:37:32.740 Alright

00:37:34.400 Oh wow

00:37:35.620 i like how you threw the questions back at me oh my last words and let's stay curious

00:37:41.800 stay curious um and find opportunities to ask these questions as well i'm like i think

00:37:46.700 kamari you said it best man like you have these thoughts and have you have these ideas

00:37:51.740 when you really have the opportunity to like sit down and talk with people about it it becomes real

00:37:56.920 and you have the opportunity to learn more about yourself so with that you're welcome mari thank

00:38:03.320 you for your time for your insights and until our next episode take care all right this is jonathan

00:38:10.100 action the real goat let him finish i don't know what i was gonna say

00:38:18.580 well we'll just see what happens but i'm gonna i'll start i'll start so we can say this is

00:38:30.720 This is Jonathan, this is Akshayin, this is Sadiq, this is Betza, yeah.

00:38:33.780 All right, okay, so I'll just say Jonathan, and then you guys will take it from there?

00:38:36.820 Yeah.

00:38:37.240 Okay, all right, well, this is Jonathan.

00:38:39.400 Adrian, did you say goodbye on yours?

00:38:41.820 Okay, so this is Jonathan.

00:38:43.780 This is Adrian.

00:38:44.860 This is Akshayin, the actual goat.

00:38:47.400 This is Sadiq, and I'm the real goat.

00:38:50.120 Whatever, if somebody says he's the goat, he's not the goat. 0.61

00:38:53.100 Just I'm the only goat.

00:38:55.000 This is Betza, a.k.a. the real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real goat.

00:39:00.300 a.k.a. the king

00:39:02.000 a.k.a. you know just a group

00:39:04.360 just remember that

00:39:05.380 greatest of all time

00:39:06.940 Thank you for listening

00:39:10.720 and giving these boys your attention

00:39:12.200 as I'm listening to them

00:39:13.380 I'm remembering how much it meant to them

00:39:15.340 that everyday people would be interested

00:39:17.600 to hear what they had to say

00:39:19.000 This podcast is supported by NextGenMen

00:39:23.000 a non-profit organization

00:39:24.940 that works on positive masculinity

00:39:26.960 and gender-based violence

00:39:27.960 through an intersectional lens

00:39:29.460 if this project means something to you

00:39:31.620 please support us at nextgymen.ca

00:39:33.540 slash support

00:39:34.340 if you want to get in touch you can reach me at

00:39:37.600 boypodcast at nextgymen.ca

00:39:39.440 or at boypodcast on social media

00:39:41.300 if you were interested in the spoken word poem at the start

00:39:45.640 you might be interested in the films

00:39:47.020 When They See Us, Charm City Kings

00:39:49.180 or We The Animals

00:39:50.420 you can find them at breakingtheboycode.com

00:39:52.940 slash films

00:39:54.040 okay so we're closing up on this episode

00:39:58.140 and yeah

00:39:59.600 Have a great day.

00:40:00.940 A.K.A. the real, real, real king.

00:40:03.080 Okay, now we're not.

00:40:04.380 This is the end of the episode.

00:40:06.200 Bye.

00:40:06.540 See you next time.

00:40:07.400 Peace.

Breaking the Boy Code - October 09, 2024

The Intersection of Boyhood and Race

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