Culture Club - Fatphobia and Racism in Fashion and a Chat with Model Mahalia Handley

00:00:00.000 That phobia in the fashion industry, that strawberry dress, and an interview with model

00:00:14.840 and activist Mahalia Hanley. Welcome to this week's episode of Culture Club.

00:00:20.120 We're media slashies Jasmine and Maggie, and here's our weekly chat about pop culture,

00:00:24.780 current affairs, the internet, and our lives. But before we start, we would like to acknowledge

00:00:30.640 that the Wurundjeri, Turrbal, and Boon Wurrung people are the traditional custodians of the

00:00:35.900 land upon which we live, create, and work. We respect elders past, present, and emerging,

00:00:42.740 and acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded.

00:00:48.560 Jasmine, I saw that you went to the beach yesterday. Very jealous. How was?

00:00:52.920 i did i went down to the gold coast uh with my mom and my sister and we had a little beach day

00:01:00.420 which felt like such a luxury these days to one be able to leave my house obviously being in

00:01:08.280 brisbane you're allowed to travel within the state any way you want so to get out of the city

00:01:12.900 lay on a beach i was really thinking of all you guys like melbourne and with your contaminated

00:01:19.720 water and your lockdown, your poor things. So I felt very, very grateful to be having some sunshine

00:01:28.320 and I wish all of you guys could have joined me. Yeah. I feel like everyone just pities us so much

00:01:34.340 at the moment. Like, you know, Melbourne used to be the coolest city in Australia, arguably.

00:01:39.300 And now we're like, oh, like that poor little cousin, like, oh, is she okay? Like she can't

00:01:44.560 drink water like they've had horrible storms where I literally like we had the worst on the

00:01:49.940 other day and I literally had to run to my mom and I was like mom I feel my heart it was pounding I

00:01:54.360 was freaked out I was like a dog in a thunderstorm so yeah it's great down here great times oh my

00:02:03.480 god you poor things um but apart from that I haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary

00:02:08.860 how about you any news from lockdown i wish i could report something oh actually cooking

00:02:15.460 adventures i made orange brownies last night they were not that good so they said prep i know how

00:02:23.560 disappointing just to add to the you know disappointment of melbourne life um but the

00:02:28.320 recipe said you know prep 10 minutes bake 12 to 15 minutes it took me over two and a half hours

00:02:36.740 I'm not even kidding like what um I do want to say I was on a zoom call when I was prepping it

00:02:44.180 with my friends so you know it took me a while but then in the oven it took like a good 40 minutes

00:02:49.580 anyway and it didn't taste that good anyway so that's the end of that that's so sad I'm so sorry

00:02:55.320 this is such a sad start to the episode this isn't a sad well you might think it's sad but

00:03:03.940 I was really interested by your commentary on Instagram story yesterday about the appropriation

00:03:10.200 of Gua Sha.

00:03:11.160 Is that how you pronounce it?

00:03:11.860 Gua Sha?

00:03:12.600 I think it's Gua Sha. 0.98

00:03:14.140 Yeah.

00:03:14.460 Yeah.

00:03:15.160 Because I've seen them around a lot lately.

00:03:16.480 I've bought into it.

00:03:17.840 I read Christina's fashion journal piece on it.

00:03:21.240 They're really like, you know, the trendy beauty products at the moment.

00:03:25.060 So what's your opinion on that?

00:03:26.960 Well, I just find it interesting.

00:03:28.840 I don't really have a strong opinion just because it's not like, oh my God, like why

00:03:32.720 people can't use it.

00:03:33.740 i just find it intriguing that yes it is a traditional or um like alternative chinese

00:03:39.120 medicine thing and talking to so many asians and not just chinese people which i thought it was

00:03:45.040 just specifically but a lot of vietnamese or indonesian people this was such this is so

00:03:49.760 integral to like their upbringing they say that it's so funny um i posted quite a disturbing

00:03:56.080 photo and it was um using the gua sha on someone's back and it looked like cupping like it looked like

00:04:00.840 a massively bruised back and everyone's like oh my god like my mum used to do that to me

00:04:05.520 using a 20 cent coin actually so you don't even need like a special thing right and you'd usually

00:04:10.680 use like a Chinese ointment or some sort of like medicine to do it so it's quite funny because I

00:04:17.640 feel like that's obviously considered quite weird or strange but then you know when it's welcomed

00:04:22.400 into the white sphere it's cool and it's oh my god it's like hip and trendy so I feel like I'm

00:04:28.920 just interested in it I'm not saying anything I'm just observing yeah definitely yeah I've got one

00:04:35.800 and yeah I use it like once a week as part of my Sunday self-care skincare routine and yeah I've

00:04:43.720 heard that you shouldn't do it too roughly and I kind of just use it as a relaxing tool and I also

00:04:50.840 use it on my neck as well because I've heard that it's meant to be really good for muscles

00:04:54.860 but I do feel that the day after I use it my skin is more bright so there must be something 0.99

00:05:01.300 I mean I'm sure there is for hundreds of years by Asian people not a new invention so yeah I'll

00:05:10.360 keep using mine I think but it's interesting it's something that I didn't consider when I bought one

00:05:15.300 so yeah thanks for bringing that up I'm sure a lot of people in your community are now also

00:05:20.160 thinking about that and how they engage in it so anyway what's on the agenda for this episode

00:05:27.820 lots of good stuff if i may say so myself um we want to start off with the strawberry dress

00:05:36.220 do you remember when you first saw this jazz i saw it for the first time on test holiday back

00:05:43.760 in january at the award show but then i noticed on tiktok it was blowing up like crazy around the

00:05:49.980 cottagecore aesthetic. And if you follow us on Instagram, you know that we love a bit of

00:05:54.100 cottagecore. So I was definitely, and pink is my favorite color. So I was like enamored by it

00:06:00.600 completely. What about you? Yeah, I think I probably saw it first on TikTok. I think I saw

00:06:07.060 this girl like probably in rollerblades with it on. It's so quite wild to see how many people 0.75

00:06:14.800 have bought it considering it is i think 490 us dollars um but yeah probably tiktok so the dress

00:06:23.700 is designed by 24 year old woman lyrica matoshi yeah and so if you haven't seen it we actually

00:06:31.260 posted on culture club and the picture went off because we edited onto harry styles um it's like

00:06:37.320 i didn't edit it yeah someone else edited but like it was incredible yeah it was crazy anyway

00:06:44.080 so yeah it's a pink tulle dress that goes to about neat shin length and it's got like sparkly

00:06:52.720 strawberries all over it and like puffed little sleeves so it's very very princessy and cute and

00:06:58.100 gorgeous and i really want one anyway as the dress got more popular it was edited onto people

00:07:04.040 like harry styles and on the internet it was sketched onto gender neutral characters so it

00:07:09.820 also became a symbol of defying gender norms in on the internet i guess it also went to a size

00:07:17.120 extra extra extra large which is quite a large range for an independent brand to stock so it

00:07:24.800 blew up the internet and was hailed as being an inclusive escapist daydream dress over the last

00:07:30.840 few weeks it has caused quite a stir and sparked a bit of a conversation around fat phobia in the

00:07:36.800 fashion industry so Tess Holiday who is an amazing plus-size model she wore it to the Grammys back in

00:07:44.460 January and rocked it completely and obviously in the last month or two it's really popularity has

00:07:52.680 spiked incredibly and so Tess made a tweet saying quote I like how this dress had me on worst dress

00:07:59.320 list when I wore it in January to the Grammys but now because a bunch of skinny people wore it on

00:08:03.860 tiktok everyone cares to sum it up our society hates fat people especially when we are winning

00:08:09.900 there was some backlash about this though because um when she mentioned that she was on some worst

00:08:15.480 dress list i actually tried to google and find them but i found it kind of difficult so there

00:08:20.740 was some backlash around it because um she was also on some best dress lists and complimented

00:08:26.820 for wearing it but she came back saying quote y'all are purposely ignoring the important fact

00:08:32.740 of my post. Society treats fat people like we are invisible. The minute someone who is in a smaller

00:08:39.320 frame that's deemed acceptable by society's standards does slash wears the same thing,

00:08:44.680 people say, oh my God, this is revolutionary. So I think that's a great point that she brought up.

00:08:50.220 Yeah. And it sparked a conversation between Maggie and I about how we'd seen a few posts lately

00:08:55.440 and some TikToks making the point that is this outfit that we're seeing, is it a good outfit

00:09:01.480 it or are you just thin and that was further highlighted through a tweet by rain fisher

00:09:07.820 quant who's an 18 year old activist and journalist we'll share on the instagram story today i'll just 0.98

00:09:12.940 describe it quickly so it's a picture of two plus size women wearing jean cutoffs and some like

00:09:20.480 baggy vintage style t-shirts and like chunky trainers and the tweet says a tweet making fun

00:09:27.140 of these women has 100,000 likes but I swear to god if Bella Hadid wore this exact outfit it would

00:09:32.500 be on a million 80s casual inspo Pinterest boards because as always fashion is judged exclusively by

00:09:38.820 the bodies that wear it and I'm so glad we're having this conversation but I do want to

00:09:43.400 acknowledge that we both benefit from size privilege and can't talk about the lived experiences

00:09:49.280 of someone who is plus size and like a lot of privilege skinny privilege is mainly invisible

00:09:55.480 and actually just one other thing back to when you're talking about the tiktok videos we were

00:10:01.120 seeing about you know if someone's style is good or are they just skinny i think that's so so true

00:10:08.480 in terms of fashion nowadays where i feel like minimalistic and a beige neutral outfits are

00:10:14.580 really in at the moment so you know there's so many style steals for people like madison beer

00:10:20.000 who literally just wears jeans and a t-shirt and, you know, is so heralded for that. And I never

00:10:26.680 really thought, I always focus on the clothes and I ignored the body, which is so, again, because

00:10:31.920 it's quite invisible in our fashion and media society. Yeah. I'm glad that conversation is

00:10:39.680 changing. I think TikTok makes it especially bad because they say like, if you just dress like

00:10:44.920 these these models it's kind of like if you just dress like them then you'll be beautiful and you'll

00:10:51.160 be happy and doesn't take into consideration that like they look good in that outfit because

00:10:55.880 they are slim and society rewards slim people for just existing and values them for just existing

00:11:02.000 but like if a plus-size person wore that outfit would we have the same reaction

00:11:06.280 would the internet have the same reaction i think that's what this tweet by rain fisher kwan

00:11:12.200 really pointed out so well is that that the chunky dad sneakers the denim cutoffs down to your knee

00:11:19.140 a baggy shirt and a little bag yeah you're right if Gigi Hadid wore that Bella Hadid wore that

00:11:25.140 walking down the street it would be like the next big thing like the jean shorts yeah and then

00:11:30.860 because of this conversation I read a really great article in InStyle by Amanda Richards

00:11:35.960 which I will quote from now. Thin women in tight clothes are empowered for reclaiming their 1.00

00:11:41.900 sexuality. Fat women in tight clothes are criticized for being overly sexual. Thin women 0.95

00:11:47.840 in baggy athleisure are celebrated for embracing the low key. Fat women in baggy athleisure are 1.00

00:11:53.760 chided for being sloppy and frumpy. Thin women in oversized blazers are adored for playing with 1.00

00:11:59.620 androgyny. Fat women in oversized blazers are criticized for rejecting femininity. 1.00

00:12:05.860 What's considered trendy, whether a bandaged dress or high-waisted jorts, is always determined by

00:12:11.800 whether or not an influential thin person is willing to opt in. Anyone else risks becoming

00:12:17.960 a punchline. So to learn further about fatphobia and discrimination in the fashion industry,

00:12:24.100 we spoke to the wonderful Mahalia Handley. Mahalia is an Irish and Maori model, activist and creative

00:12:31.680 director who grew up in Darwin, Australia. She's currently signed with three modelling agencies

00:12:37.320 across Australia, the US and the UK and is also an important and outspoken voice that speaks out

00:12:44.420 against racism and fatphobia in the fashion industry. We hope you enjoy this chat with our

00:12:50.060 first ever Culture Club guest, Mahalia Handley. You can find her on Instagram at at Mahalia from

00:12:56.320 Australia. So you are our first ever guest on this podcast. So thank you so much for coming

00:13:12.900 on the pod. We really appreciate it. Of course. So my first question is just, can you please

00:13:18.060 introduce yourself and tell us about your journey into modelling and activism and more recently,

00:13:23.180 creative directing. Sure. My name is Mahalia Hanley. I'm a model and an activist, as you said.

00:13:30.640 I have been modelling for 10 years now, which seems like a very long time now that I look back

00:13:37.820 at it. I've been probably doing activist work, I'd say probably on the same scale as that,

00:13:43.760 just not as high profile I would have been within the last three or four years where I've actually

00:13:48.880 been able to use my platform as a model to help usher and change as an activist um in terms of

00:13:56.760 starting that all I guess I'm from Darwin so there's not a lot going up in Darwin in terms

00:14:03.100 of modeling so I moved to Sydney when I was about 18 19 uh I'd been modeling out there

00:14:09.360 very low scale for a year and a bit and I signed with an agency in Sydney at the same time I was

00:14:18.700 trying to just like find community so I was doing a lot of volunteer work with the RSPCA and soup

00:14:24.200 kitchens and that kind of just kept growing as like some sort of stability as I moved to London

00:14:29.780 when I was about 22 again looking for community I went and did a lot of volunteer work at soup

00:14:35.880 and nursing homes. And then I was over in London for about three years. I'm skipping through this

00:14:43.280 quite quickly, but there was a lot of basis of learning and figuring out who I was, not only as

00:14:51.940 an individual, not only as a woman, but in the industry as a model and a model who was a plus

00:14:58.540 size mixed race model. So there's so many layers on top of that. I guess when I kind of came back

00:15:04.960 to Australia, I realized that the fight here for both modeling and activism was so rampant and so

00:15:14.160 needed. In terms of the industry, I think London is extremely progressive. Lots of groups who are

00:15:20.600 starting things for activism, lots of people who are passionate about change. There's such a quick

00:15:26.440 access to Europe as well. So there is so many different groups and companies in Europe who also

00:15:32.240 want this change. And they're so ahead. They're just ahead with thinking about things and

00:15:38.300 involving people. And you can even trail that down right to the hospitality and how they alter

00:15:44.800 their business moves over there. But coming back to Australia, I realized, wow, I thought I'd left

00:15:50.940 to kind of progress. And I had this moment and I've stepped back in the past about five years.

00:15:56.380 So coming back was like, okay, well, no one's really saying anything here, or maybe they're

00:16:02.260 too scared.

00:16:03.000 And maybe it was just from being in London and having such fantastic support networks

00:16:08.060 from my friends and my agencies that gave me the confidence to speak about things and

00:16:13.440 issues, especially surrounding body positivity, to kind of just step into it in Australia.

00:16:19.160 So it's been a bit of a long journey.

00:16:21.060 I've lived in, I'm still technically living in New York at the moment.

00:16:24.140 I'm just back here.

00:16:26.380 for the moment and I think it's just when you model you have so much time sometimes because

00:16:33.480 jobs can be so infrequent sometimes you're working all week then you're not working for a month then

00:16:40.620 you you have all this medium time and I found a lot of models that I know want to do things and

00:16:48.400 want to help but we can't give our time to a volunteer service because you have to commit a

00:16:55.720 particular amount of hours per week per month um training you know set schedules which is

00:17:02.160 completely understandable it's just not something we can do so I think from already doing those sort

00:17:07.060 of volunteer work and knowing what my schedule and other people's schedule was I thought well

00:17:12.740 let's use my platform and let's keep talking and then um luckily a lot of people were willing to

00:17:19.280 listen as well and we've just kind of built from there so going back to what you were saying before

00:17:24.460 about when you came back, you felt that Australia was five years behind. Why do you feel that

00:17:30.280 Australia in particular has such an issue with both racial and body diversity in fashion?

00:17:35.400 I think there's such a multitude to problems that Australia has. A lot of it, I do personally feel

00:17:44.200 falls into the educational system. It also falls into how we govern our land. And that's not

00:17:53.140 necessarily just on the government I feel like each party has problems that they need to resolve

00:17:59.040 but we're living on indigenous land this was always indigenous land and we don't call it

00:18:06.700 by its correct names we still have places in this country that are named after colonizers

00:18:13.500 and I think it's like one of the very small steps into healing that creates a huge ripple chain

00:18:20.240 of having more acceptability or just normalization of literally the community and public and

00:18:29.260 unfortunately our generation has grown up with all of these predated standards so predated laws

00:18:36.520 predated names for places predated beliefs as well and that's kind of just grown into this

00:18:43.940 bubble of consumerism and ideal thought of what an Australian is and how is that supposed to be

00:18:52.420 portrayed through media. So yeah, I would, sorry, to wrap that down, it would be more education

00:18:58.160 so that we can start to rewrite our history, reteach the correct history so that it's forming

00:19:04.500 into not just everybody in school, like it should be vital information that anybody can be taught 0.91

00:19:11.060 so that we can start to accept more Indigenous, more BIPOC, like Australia banks on the fact that

00:19:19.180 it's multicultural, yet it's not, you know, it's not reflected in the media and it makes

00:19:23.280 no sense. Do you think that Australia is trying to hold on to its history,

00:19:29.240 its colonial history more strongly than other places like the UK?

00:19:32.580 I feel like because we've only had colonial history, that we're searching for what our 0.98

00:19:39.180 history is because it's been eradicated or suppressed that we're like oh fuck what sorry 0.98

00:19:44.600 I don't mean to swear I can swear it just we're kind of sitting here going well who are we you 0.94

00:19:52.120 know it's like we're in this reflection mode and I feel like a lot of citizens are in this

00:19:57.420 reflection mode of saying well who is an Australian for example you look at New Zealand

00:20:01.680 our next-door neighbours and Maori culture is extremely infused into land education words

00:20:12.260 that are used over there and they can find themselves in that Australia we're looking for

00:20:18.820 it we're we don't know who we are we have a presence of who we are we do have strong trait

00:20:25.400 um there's definitely like that hard yakka kind of moment but because we have ignored the

00:20:32.040 indigenous land and background that we sit on we are left questioning who are we and I know anyone

00:20:39.860 who is mixed race in Australia most probably is grown up thinking I'm again I'm not a little I'm

00:20:45.900 not white enough for here and I'm not brown enough for here I'm not too much culture yet

00:20:50.280 I'm not accepted in this culture it seems like this really weird tightrope to be walking

00:20:55.140 yeah and the media has been perpetuating that for so many years now yeah I mean if you google

00:21:00.900 Australian girl you get a blonde girl in a bikini at a beach and that just it makes no sense no it's

00:21:09.680 not everyone and that's the problem it's how can you reflect one person as the entirety of an entire

00:21:17.600 country you know how do we do that when we see it on the news it's just a consistent domino effect

00:21:23.920 And you were talking about education and the importance of that just before, and you also

00:21:28.320 mentioned how, you know, social media can be such a great instigator of that, especially when you

00:21:32.980 might not have enough time, as you mentioned before. You recently helped launch Models for

00:21:38.540 Change Now, a Black-led collective with over 200 models. Can you please chat to us about the

00:21:43.960 collective's aims and about the hashtag My Black Model Story? Sure. So I obviously am living in

00:21:52.440 America. And here I have a lot of friends who are American. And through what was happening

00:21:58.980 recently with the BLM movement, there was so much injustice that we saw and everyone was hurt. I 0.99

00:22:04.620 think that everyone was trying to find some sort of way to help, not only on our own shores, but

00:22:10.600 abroad. We were able to come together and figure out what it was that we can do, considering that

00:22:18.540 we all understood as our jobs that as models and people working in media, how much our presence or

00:22:25.340 not our presence or the behaviors that are happening behind the scenes of having this

00:22:32.100 presence is adapting and contributing in to how we view ourselves. And this is also in viewing of

00:22:40.020 Black people in America. So we formed together this collective to hope and heal our industry by

00:22:46.440 asking a whole set of initiatives which can be easily implemented into business today each one

00:22:52.540 of these initiatives we spent weeks discussing there was about 200 of us on calls at different

00:22:58.760 times in a call value group who broke this down how can we do this what are the small things and

00:23:05.640 what are the very easy things that can be implemented to help black models in America

00:23:12.180 because you know it wasn't even until this recent movement that I realized the privilege I did have

00:23:18.280 as somebody who was a little bit lighter in color of being brown because I'd always just

00:23:22.500 felt the disconcern of it I'd always had bad experiences or felt like I you know wasn't going

00:23:31.140 to get the job because a white model was going to get it over me yet however it wasn't until this I

00:23:35.900 realized that I have this privilege as well and now I have to elevate others and help amplify that

00:23:41.860 because unless they're equal I'll never be equal. So we started this and we have launched it into

00:23:48.820 our petition to try and get a whole heap of signatures backed on it. We are going to try

00:23:53.780 and set this with legislation and hope for it to be an umbrella of policies and ways that companies,

00:24:02.300 agencies, models and the fashion industry need to conduct themselves moving forward for inclusion.

00:24:08.560 Yeah. And also just changing tracks a little bit for the moment. So you also talk about this

00:24:15.540 playing it safe that fashion brands do by, you know, sometimes including a token plus size model,

00:24:21.240 but they might still be predominantly white or they could still be smaller than some plus size

00:24:26.340 women. What do you think will it take to change this tokenism? In the Australian industry? 1.00

00:24:34.080 Yeah. Well, I guess just overall in your experience.

00:24:36.660 There needs to be a total rehaul here in Australia. I'm so tired of brands using excuses like we

00:24:43.260 couldn't find the person or we just don't know what to do. A lot of it too is just sizing. I

00:24:50.220 don't understand why brands aren't extending their sizing to service the community. Looking at this

00:24:57.320 from a business degree background, it makes literally no sense to exclude such a huge

00:25:03.120 population. The Australian plus size industry is a $41 million untapped industry, 41 mil. And like

00:25:11.000 the whole point of your company is to sell clothing. Why aren't you selling to a whole

00:25:16.740 group of people? I think Australian fashion follows so closely on American fashion, yet

00:25:23.040 they've made their own set of rules in between this, as if being thin and being like being

00:25:29.180 healthy equals to being thin and being thin equals to being valued, which is completely

00:25:35.100 wrong because, I mean, it's wrong on multiple levels, but being smaller doesn't necessarily

00:25:41.520 make you healthier. So I think the problems that we have here fall into the fact that nobody's

00:25:47.960 doing it. And it's like, everyone's playing copycat. We see that a lot in trends in Australia

00:25:52.580 as well especially because we operate on a lot of summer clothing then winter the experimental

00:25:59.620 individuality that you can find in places like London in America you do not find in Australia

00:26:06.780 any model who comes to Australia knows she's shooting commercial that's it you're only going

00:26:12.960 to be shooting commercial clients because you know editorial is here and there and we're just 0.61

00:26:20.120 not known for having these huge groundbreaking companies that are giving women and men an

00:26:28.140 individual identity so in terms of going back to your question is that I think there needs to be

00:26:35.860 an overhaul there needs to be so many more brands who go oh that's right I want to make money I'm

00:26:40.900 going to extend my sizing in terms of extending that sizing that means they need to employ

00:26:45.040 different types of bodies and when I say it's just bodies like it doesn't just have to be

00:26:50.540 diverse sizes of bodies it should also be different types of body able bodies non-able bodies

00:26:57.040 non-binary bodies trans bodies like everybody has a representation and keeping yourself in some sort

00:27:03.860 of bubble of thinking that it's going to elevate your brand by being this small smidgen of what's

00:27:10.920 the word I'm looking for here. It's aspirational. It's like an aspirational thought. I think you're

00:27:17.160 not assessing your market anymore today. I think that was working 40 years ago, but that's not the

00:27:23.660 generation that's currently in your buying market. The generation in your buying market now want to 0.56

00:27:29.420 see real people like them and they want to understand where they're buying from and who

00:27:33.800 they're buying from and what their core values are. So I think, yeah, it really falls down into

00:27:38.760 a complete overhaul a lot of brands just having the just the guts really it's just I'm so tired

00:27:45.740 of them all playing cat and mouse it's like you you have no more excuses anymore let's get on with 0.98

00:27:51.420 it apart from the fact that you're either sexist racist or you just hate fat people and then it's 0.98

00:27:58.360 like well make that very present but you don't like it's not even that you don't even like fat 0.96

00:28:03.060 people you just literally don't like anyone other than this thing make that present let us know we

00:28:07.740 probably won't buy there anymore. Do you think there are any brands actually paving the way

00:28:12.120 that are doing this well in Australia specifically? Oh yeah I think the Iconic have been doing quite

00:28:18.620 well honestly for a few years. I know I've been working with them for a long time so that kind

00:28:24.100 of shows some reflection to other like brands apart from you know your big dubs your K-marts

00:28:31.080 and your targets who have always kind of had that available yet that doesn't exclude them from some

00:28:38.100 of the campaigns I have seen at point the iconic for sure they've been powering it through they

00:28:43.220 have had different types of bodies different types of races they've even sat down and wanted

00:28:49.760 to speak about how they can be more inclusive I've had conversations with them about their ratio

00:28:55.240 like they're willing to always learn which is the most important part I think Marie Claire has

00:29:01.960 taken a huge pivot within the last year and have altered and moved forward there are also a couple

00:29:07.820 plus size companies that have obviously been powering through with it for a long time as well

00:29:12.220 but in Australia it's I can count them on my hands which is a shame we could be so much better

00:29:18.720 yeah so speaking of a complete overhaul back in July you made a statement on Instagram

00:29:24.820 about the closures of a few Australian fashion magazines.

00:29:28.820 Do you believe that due to the lack of diverse representation

00:29:31.680 that this was a long time coming and could have been avoided? 1.00

00:29:35.220 Oh, 100%.

00:29:36.060 I think Marie Claire is the little podium that people need to look at

00:29:40.820 and what happens when you pivot and you reassess your audience

00:29:45.100 and you reassess what you're giving out and sharing to people.

00:29:50.100 And I honestly think it could have been saved ages ago.

00:29:53.840 through COVID was the moment where I was able to actually realize what kind of business scheme

00:30:02.700 they were using in terms of their marketing. Now, I am saying this without actual evidence of their

00:30:09.020 financial output. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes yet. I am able to see other

00:30:16.680 brands and companies who have incorporated different bodies, amplified empowered voices

00:30:22.180 of I'm going to open quotation minorities and really use that as not only a reflection of their

00:30:30.580 company and who is their audience but as a marketing tool they've put into and gone you

00:30:35.400 know what these are the people who are probably reading and moving forward and on social media and

00:30:39.660 all the stats to be able to find whom are the users of social media are on the internet

00:30:45.960 anybody can access them so I don't understand why other companies especially some of the recent

00:30:52.400 magazines that have folded over the years have not accept like made the moment to access that

00:30:59.340 if they had I do believe they had have been able to alter what was happening normally in business

00:31:07.160 if you don't have a lot of money because you're not making a lot of sales you are not taking risks

00:31:13.800 that's it's this weird tie because it's you're not taking risks yet actually it's probably the

00:31:19.380 time when you do need to be taking risks because you're not selling anymore and you're not engaging

00:31:24.020 your audience so that kind of gave me the understanding that you're using a old time

00:31:31.140 you know success story of saying okay well let's just employ the same people that have always worked

00:31:35.860 to keep some sort of line of standard of having money coming in because we don't have enough

00:31:41.080 or we're not making enough and I truly believe if you had of if they had have altered it then they

00:31:47.600 would have started to make that money and you can see that in the reflection of brands who are doing

00:31:52.220 it and any business student will be able to tell you that the criteria of when you're learning

00:31:57.600 one of the one of the biggest things I talk to you about is change that it's inevitable and it's

00:32:03.320 going to happen and they also very deeply speak about how diverse workforces internally and

00:32:11.040 externally only help a brand grow because you get multiple opinions and different outlooks

00:32:18.400 of something that you may not be privy to if that's not in your own circle so it just makes

00:32:25.440 it makes no sense to me but it makes total sense to me as to why it wasn't implemented before had

00:32:31.420 had been implemented I think it definitely would have survived and it's it's very much on the

00:32:37.800 external what you're promoting but it's extremely important on the internal team I think both are

00:32:44.620 coming hand in hand with what consumers want to see they don't want to just see a half-assed thing

00:32:51.560 they don't want to see a half-assed inclusion it has to be full yeah and it's not like this is a

00:32:55.520 new conversation and we're just discovering like diversity representation like this has been going

00:33:00.160 on for 10 plus years and it's the point now where it's like if you don't pivot you die like you're

00:33:07.160 not catching up to the consumers then what are you doing yeah and it's also it's just that thing

00:33:11.980 it's change is gonna come you know what if everyone was like pink hair is a trend and you

00:33:16.180 were like I don't know anything about pink hair like I don't want to I want to do anything about

00:33:20.300 pink hair like it scares me or I don't know about it or I only like brown hair you would think I

00:33:25.180 should probably learn something about it. Let me either do my own research or speak to somebody

00:33:31.620 with pink hair and let them tell me all about it. In saying all of that, do you think that we'll

00:33:38.940 ever see a time where there's no labels or no curve or plus size models, but simply models?

00:33:46.100 I hope so. Oh, I hope so so much. I'm hoping that's where we'll, I feel like that's where

00:33:51.620 London and America are very closely heading to. When I was in London, I definitely didn't feel

00:33:57.440 like talking about my race or like pushing the fact about race or racial inclusion was as prominent

00:34:03.000 as it is. And I have to speak about here in Australia. So already knowing what it's like

00:34:08.800 abroad makes me think that we can get there, but we need to move ahead. We just need to jump,

00:34:15.520 like light year jump ahead and follow the lead and it's kind of like this weird moment because

00:34:22.740 to get there I think we have to have people like myself and others who are calling them out yet we

00:34:28.680 it wasn't until the recent safety I guess of the BLM movement in myself of being able to say this

00:34:35.180 is how it's actually always been for someone like me that I was able to say things and not be vilified

00:34:41.220 or not be called like I was always kind of known at some points for being like an angry model or

00:34:47.220 the model who was like just a little bit too iffy to employ because I was calling out companies for

00:34:54.080 what they were doing and making me and most likely other women feel like every day and men

00:34:59.960 it's not excluding men but I think to jump ahead we just need to stop putting people like myself

00:35:06.280 in boxes as if we're angry and listen to them the only difference is we've got the platforms

00:35:11.220 I'm not only voicing what I can see is ineffective or hurtful, but I need to be the voice as well

00:35:18.780 because I'm sure there are women and men who don't have that voice. So it kind of falls on

00:35:24.540 my responsibility and brands and companies need to listen to many who are saying this

00:35:30.340 and help us move forward. We need some huge changes. We need more plus size and we need more

00:35:37.900 our POC on covers of magazines. We need them on runways in Australia. We need our own champions 0.95

00:35:45.800 really, because as we've noticed, there aren't a lot of models who are deemed successful unless

00:35:53.080 you go abroad and you become something in America and America can name their own models and English,

00:35:59.500 the English fashion can also kind of put up their own supers. But in Australia, we don't do it unless

00:36:05.700 you've been recognized elsewhere. And we can't really have these people who are pioneers of

00:36:10.540 change unless we create them. I think we can get there. I just think everyone needs to kind of like

00:36:16.820 relax those walls of feeling like they're being attacked or penetrated and listen to what the

00:36:24.620 younger generation, BRPSC, literally any minority group is telling them about how they don't feel 0.87

00:36:31.040 included yeah we need to stop holding on to the old guard and create something new yeah let it go

00:36:38.020 changes again change will come it's going to happen so why not embrace it we have we literally

00:36:45.220 have the power as someone who is on indigenous land and surrounded by indigenous countries

00:36:51.320 to be like actually we've changed our tune we are going to empower and amplify and show every other

00:36:59.780 country how you need to support your Indigenous culture and your people and your multicultural

00:37:05.820 people because that's what Australia is so we have the power it just needs to happen you know

00:37:11.600 it should be a thing that happens all year round it's constantly embraced for sure definitely agree

00:37:18.020 with that um we want to thank you very much again for joining us on the pod today was there anything

00:37:23.660 else you wanted to add let's keep pushing and striving and I think just like listening in

00:37:31.440 and supporting the smaller voices I guess in Australia I know I have a larger platform but

00:37:38.100 I definitely think people who have smaller platforms we have to get behind them because

00:37:42.280 there's a lot of strength in numbers and in unity is where we can find equality so we all have to

00:37:50.380 kind of band together and um demand it really we have to demand moving forward because we don't

00:37:57.300 want to sit in this age anymore I think all the generations now are just done with it we need to

00:38:03.100 move forward and we can we have the power to pushing and having those converse yeah and

00:38:09.660 empowering the conversations amplifying other voices getting behind those people and by getting

00:38:15.060 behind them it's like of course you follow them but when they speak about something or they address

00:38:21.560 a particular company or brand showing your support and comments and likes and shares actually helps

00:38:28.760 that one person bring it to the brand or helps them amplify the fact that what they're saying

00:38:34.700 is correct so let's not let fear of judgment cloud us anymore in actually instigating change

00:38:44.900 such wise words to end on thank you so much for your time today thank you ladies

00:38:51.540 we were so grateful for Mahalia to come onto our podcast to chat some more about fat phobia

00:39:03.960 and racism within the fashion industry it's something that really needs a lot more attention

00:39:08.920 and a lot more push to get proper movement happening and representation happening

00:39:15.600 Yeah, Mahalia is such an important and powerful voice in this space and we're really glad that

00:39:20.500 we could have her on this platform. I would highly recommend again checking out her Instagram

00:39:26.340 at Mahalia from Australia because she posts not only bomb selfies but also a lot of educational

00:39:33.080 resources and you can also keep up with the Models for Change Now campaign.

00:39:38.560 in this segment of culture club can you please tell me what you have either been reading watching

00:39:49.180 or listening to this week that you would recommend to me and the other followers 0.65

00:39:53.360 one thing I read this week that really got me thinking was I tried a sheet mask for my vulva

00:39:59.780 so you don't have to by Isabel Sachs for fashion journal it is a review but also an analytical

00:40:08.220 look at this feminine hygiene product um by a brand called fig fem so they're balinese australian

00:40:16.600 brand by entrepreneur and influencer lindy rama ellis and it's like one of those face masks you

00:40:24.760 know the packaged ones that you put on your face like the what are they called sheet mask yeah

00:40:29.840 yeah it's like a sheet mask um but it's for your vulva and it's described as normalizing the

00:40:37.860 conversations around women's intimate wellness and helps foster a self-care culture that's

00:40:44.200 honest nurturing and empowering you're meant to use it you know it's recommended that you use it

00:40:50.200 two to three times a week and they're 25 per mask so if you use the recommended amount you are

00:40:57.100 spending 75 australian dollars on something for your vulva to zhuzh your vulva area what's it

00:41:05.300 supposed to do like fig them says some of the benefits of the mask are that it brightens

00:41:10.960 aids to increase elasticity and reduce wrinkles delivers a plump youthful texture and

00:41:16.980 of abnormal vaginal odor oh so this product has been mentioned a few times on other podcasts it

00:41:26.740 was mentioned on shameless and also on flex mummies, whatever I want podcast. And she actually 0.88

00:41:31.540 chatted to the founder. So if you are interested in the brand a bit more, I would definitely

00:41:36.300 recommend that. But in this particular article by Isabel, she describes having an issue with

00:41:43.300 the lines being blurred between addressing the issue of stigma and politicizing women's bodies

00:41:49.840 versus straight up profiting from it. And it really made me think about the products that I

00:41:54.580 use in my every day and how many are useful and make me feel good whether it's through the ritual

00:42:00.820 of doing them or if I'm using products because society has said there's something wrong with

00:42:05.600 that part of me if I don't use it like this vulva thing like I don't know about you but that's an

00:42:10.480 area obviously take care of it but like I don't buy need I don't feel the need to buy things you

00:42:16.340 know and where is the line between self-care and the commodification of making women just feel

00:42:22.960 insecure about more things like we already have so much pressure on ourselves to like have our

00:42:28.080 eyebrows wax have a haircut shave our bodies maybe some like tanning lotion if you want you know get

00:42:34.400 your nails done there's so much that yeah to an extent it's a choice but also through marketing

00:42:40.920 and through products like this $25 each it is saying that like you're missing out if you're

00:42:47.100 not partaking in this or you're yeah you're not going to be as beautiful or like plump as the

00:42:55.720 women who are using this and so you'll be at a disadvantage yeah even when you're reading out 0.97

00:43:01.140 the benefits I think what that even does is put into the heads of women or people with vulvas like 0.87

00:43:08.480 oh like my vagina is not plump it's not it has wrinkles you know it's almost the you compare it

00:43:15.320 to your own body and I think it's just we just don't need more of this stuff but I would be open 0.86

00:43:21.120 to listening to Flex's podcast about it because I hear that she's quite um she's not like accusatory

00:43:26.560 or tacky she just wants to hear about why um the woman actually made it in the first place

00:43:31.620 what have you been consuming this week Maggie actually this week I feel like I hadn't been

00:43:38.380 consuming that much um but one thing that really did stand out was Vogue's YouTube video um and

00:43:44.980 It was called Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Guide

00:43:49.840 to Her Signature Red Lip.

00:43:52.800 Have you watched this yet, Jazz?

00:43:54.420 Because you actually sent me a quote from it earlier this week.

00:43:58.320 I haven't.

00:43:59.020 It's been on my list of things to watch and do all week.

00:44:02.880 And I, yeah, sent Maggie a quote that I just love AOC so much.

00:44:08.080 Like, she's my idol.

00:44:09.700 So I will definitely probably watch her after we record this.

00:44:12.760 but yeah why why would you recommend it yeah oh it's so good so it's like 18 minutes so I would

00:44:20.560 recommend it when you're like getting ready maybe so you can kind of get ready with her

00:44:24.260 um but I just found it so encouraging so welcoming so warm and she's just so intelligent

00:44:31.980 and funny as well I feel like she was very I don't want to say relatable but she was definitely

00:44:37.220 accessible and down to earth perhaps so I love the way that she needed to try and her discussions of

00:44:43.480 like feminism and political issues with the makeup she was using so Vogue's makeup tutorials are

00:44:49.720 obviously based around makeup but I'm really glad she didn't just take that opportunity to just you

00:44:55.500 know talk about her campaign and political issues like she still gave the time and platform for

00:45:00.800 makeup which made me so happy she didn't dismiss makeup or beauty as frivolous but she really

00:45:06.740 talked about the way that like she really talked about the way um that it empowers her or why she

00:45:12.740 enjoys it and I think that's so good as well um there's a lot of discussions I feel like usually

00:45:18.220 from males that makeup isn't feminist and stuff like that but I don't agree with it and she she

00:45:24.140 was speaking so eloquently as always um speaking of the quote before though I loved it so much

00:45:31.040 that we are going to play a soundbite of it right now enjoy and so make sure that you do that that

00:45:39.960 is the one foundation of everything and if you need a little boost um or if you're feeling

00:45:48.380 particularly challenged that day look in the mirror and say i'm the bomb and i will make the

00:45:57.160 world a better place in my own little pocket because that's what I'm here to do you are a

00:46:05.040 blessing to the world your talents are a blessing to the world no matter who you are there is

00:46:10.100 something that you bring and you need to know that and that is the best beauty secret of them all 1.00

00:46:15.900 yeah that's a topic that is really uh close to my heart as well in that just because a woman

00:46:25.520 likes fashion or makeup or like you know things we post on Instagram like pretty pretty pink

00:46:32.420 candles and dinner parties doesn't mean that they're not socially aware or interested in

00:46:38.300 politics or you know world issues you can be multifaceted and you can enjoy the fun things

00:46:47.280 in life and also fight for what's right which AOC is definitely doing and just in general about

00:46:53.280 recommendations um last week you mentioned the cuts podcast on optimism and i actually listened

00:46:59.180 to it after you talked about it because i really enjoyed what you were saying and it was really

00:47:03.700 really great i really enjoy um avery truffleman as a host um i think she is a great fit and it

00:47:10.860 was just such an uplifting episode and speaking of mr ladarius marshall commented on our photo

00:47:18.420 didn't he Jasmine yeah I don't think we've posted about it or talked about it enough to be honest

00:47:25.200 exactly we haven't pinned the comment or posted it on our feed I mean but it is a highlight of

00:47:32.520 the month for sure what an angel that's our way of being a part of cheer you know yeah next we'll

00:47:41.360 be ready for Navarro can you imagine us in Navarro oh my god please no imagine

00:47:46.240 oh well on that note um that's all we have for today thanks again to our amazing guest

00:47:55.660 Mahalia it was such a great chat and thank you to everyone who's listened today we really love

00:48:01.860 it when you share how you're listening to this podcast on Instagram we get so happy every time

00:48:07.340 we see a new notification pop out and please remember to like and subscribe and do all that

00:48:13.200 fun stuff. It really helps us out. Have a great week. See you next week. Bye.

Culture Club - August 31, 2020

Fatphobia and Racism in Fashion and a Chat with Model Mahalia Handley

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