Culture Club - Uh Oh Oatly, Can Brands Ever Be Ethical？

00:00:00.000 Have we boycotted Oatly? What have we been loving this week? And can brands ever be

00:00:13.300 truly ethical? Welcome to Culture Club. We're media slashies Maggie and Jasmine and this

00:00:19.680 is our weekly chat about pop culture, current affairs, the internet and our lives. Before

00:00:25.160 Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge that the Wurundjeri, Turrbal and Boon Wurrung

00:00:29.740 people are the traditional custodians of the land upon which we live, create and work.

00:00:35.380 We respect elders past, present and emerging and acknowledge that sovereignty was never

00:00:40.560 ceded.

00:00:43.600 Hi Maggie, how are you this week?

00:00:46.560 All right, you were the one that told me it was a full moon in Pisces, yes?

00:00:53.060 so as our resident astrology guru I guess at least out of the both of us

00:00:59.500 how did it affect you or how are you going this week man I don't know yeah this week has been

00:01:10.400 really full-on for me I felt like I wanted to just hibernate and just like not talk to anyone

00:01:16.960 and I think it's because my own head has been so loud this week that I actually can't handle like

00:01:23.600 really talking to anyone else well sorry should we stop the podcast should we stop the podcast

00:01:28.960 I don't want to talk to you right now no um I'm feeling better today but um yeah it's just been

00:01:37.260 like very a very anxious week and I know I saw on your Instagram that you're feeling the same way

00:01:42.100 yeah like what was with this week it was such a difficult week and um I'm not too sure why like

00:01:49.460 I'm trying to link it back to like what's happening in my life and it's just it's hard

00:01:53.040 to pinpoint sometimes but I guess that's just the way things are but to combat it you know I tried

00:01:59.260 to do all the nice things that usually get my mood up or get me out of my head and I didn't

00:02:04.300 really find they were working which is really like really frustrating like you know you're I'm like

00:02:09.180 i'm trying to do the right thing and it's just not working out and i feel like that pressure to be

00:02:13.940 okay is also doesn't help because you have i don't know if at least myself i'm like come on let's get

00:02:19.180 out of this but sometimes you just gotta ride it out that's why i was watching a lot of tv shows

00:02:24.780 and a lot of movies this week finally finished the oc which is oh incredible where are you up to now

00:02:32.540 um I think we're up to episode seven of season four so we're nearly at the end um but I feel

00:02:41.440 the same way in that I was doing things that normally fill my cup and the things that make

00:02:46.340 me feel better and they weren't working either and that like made me spiral even more I don't

00:02:51.560 know about you because I think we're both quite like optimistic people and like quite ambitious

00:02:58.240 and um yeah just positive so when things don't work I don't know I feel like I get more like

00:03:05.740 freaked out my god my god this isn't working like I'm gonna feel this way forever

00:03:09.060 which obviously you get out of it eventually but I'll also just speaking to friends I know

00:03:14.720 friends have felt the same way as well it's so weird that's what makes me think it's the full

00:03:18.780 moon I don't know people might think it's a bit woo woo but um I think there's something in it

00:03:25.040 for everyone to feel the same way um and i see that you watched the kissing booth too i have

00:03:32.540 never seen it or read it or whatever like i have no idea what it's about i feel like i was too old

00:03:38.420 for when it came out and i just missed yeah oh no i was definitely too old for it but i still

00:03:45.220 really enjoyed it so for those who don't know it's just another really shitty netflix rom-com like

00:03:51.940 that's baseline it right but I watched number two and for some reason I enjoyed it like I think it's

00:03:59.420 something to do with my mood because it's over two hours and I was just like crying for like the last

00:04:05.720 half of it and on my Instagram story I was like wow this is a really good movie and then people

00:04:10.620 were like messaging me like wait what wait what and I feel like I have to clarify it was good for

00:04:15.080 a netflix movie like it's still like very low um in terms of like you know it's no highbrow

00:04:22.640 it's not highbrow at all maybe i'll put on for a rainy day something that we i mean i didn't read

00:04:31.480 a lot of the news i tried to avoid the news this week um because it never helps my mental state but

00:04:36.060 um something that was kind of hard to avoid and what was talked about on instagram a lot this

00:04:40.840 week was Oatly, the controversy around Oatly. So that's what we want to talk about today is

00:04:49.720 why are people boycotting an oat milk brand and can brands ever be truly ethical?

00:04:55.380 So Oatly is a Swedish oat milk company and in July it sold a $200 million stake, aka 10% of

00:05:03.500 its business, to a group of high profile investors, one of which is Blackstone. So Jasmine, have you

00:05:10.800 tried Oatly before? I drink Oatly in my coffee probably three or four times a week when I buy

00:05:18.360 my coffee out so up here I get it on my morning walk I've tried and not get it too much obviously

00:05:24.260 because money but yeah I love it it's my favorite if I see a cafe has Oatly I'll go for oat milk so

00:05:31.740 it's been a bit of a blow yeah but very interesting as well. Yeah it's definitely it was definitely a

00:05:38.940 company I looked up to in terms of like social media. I love what they do. I love the way they

00:05:43.980 branded themselves and all their packaging. Super fun. It's super humanizing, which is quite

00:05:49.660 interesting in terms of what's happening here as well because they're so on the fire in this past

00:05:55.680 recent week. So now Oatly has sold part of its company to Blackstone. Blackstone is an investment

00:06:04.080 firm who are tied to deforestation in the Amazon. And they're also tied to a company in Brazil who

00:06:11.220 want to build a highway through the Amazon. And according to Bloomberg, its CEO is a big Donald

00:06:16.740 Trump supporter and donated $3 million to Super PAC America First Nation, which supports the

00:06:23.840 president's re-election. And I also read that they have funneled millions of dollars into trying to

00:06:29.680 derail AOC's grassroots campaigns. So not good. So just to break down the 10% ownership,

00:06:40.820 Oatly's projected profits for next year is $400 million, which mean Blackstone will gain an

00:06:48.020 estimated $40 million. So while I guess in the scheme of billionaires, that might not be

00:06:54.280 that much money. I still think it's worthwhile to know that they can probably do a lot with that

00:07:00.420 money still. Yeah. And I think the main issue is if another company did this, people can say,

00:07:07.560 it's 10%, whatever, like, what does that even mean? But it's the fact that Oatly have branded

00:07:13.540 themselves for years of being this sustainable company for the planet, for the people. They

00:07:19.620 publish a sustainability report and fact sheet every year and on their website it says we promise

00:07:26.100 to be a good company which means that our drive to help people upgrade their lives always comes

00:07:31.280 before the reckless pursuit of profit oh they should take that down i think that's why it's

00:07:39.540 such an outrage on the internet and from vegans and activists this week is in my opinion you can't

00:07:46.720 build your whole brand and business model on being a quote unquote good company than invest

00:07:52.800 in a company that is literally destroying the Amazon and putting, you know, Donald Trump in

00:07:59.220 power, who is obviously not the biggest climate activist in the world. I wish, I wish we could

00:08:05.360 imagine that. Yeah. And then, and then not expect people in the age of information to not do

00:08:11.700 anything about it people are going to be talking about this yeah and I think what you said about

00:08:17.480 you know them building their business off being sustainable is the key point here um I do think

00:08:25.340 it's a form of greenwashing so greenwashing is when a business employs marketing techniques and

00:08:30.280 makes them seem more green or eco or whatever you want to say in order to basically generate

00:08:36.460 more sales and profit, which I think Oatly does, you know, a big pillar of their business is being

00:08:43.780 good to the planet. Yeah. Well, even Venetia Lamanna, who I know you and I really look up to,

00:08:50.180 she's an activist, environmental activist, a slow fashion activist. I remember about a month or two

00:08:58.040 ago, she always on Instagram story posts her morning coffee and it's usually an iced coffee

00:09:03.220 and you see her pouring the Oatly milk into iced coffee and apparently she was always getting

00:09:07.520 messages from people saying like how can you be using Oatly when you know their bottles are

00:09:13.120 plastic you know there's better alternatives you could make your own milk you could use this brand

00:09:18.020 and this brand and I remember her saying like I do so much like a whole career her whole job is

00:09:24.060 trying to help the planet and she's like I'm gonna buy my oat milk and not feel guilty about the

00:09:29.080 packaging or the fact that I'm not making my own because I don't have the time to make my own I'm

00:09:34.180 not going to let you make me feel guilty about this and so I was interested in what she thought

00:09:39.120 of this and of course she's now made a highlights in her stories about how she's boycotting Oatly

00:09:45.040 she says I'm breaking up with Oatly so that's quite big in that she was you know two a month

00:09:50.720 or two ago saying you know this is my favorite milk brand and I want to have this one thing that

00:09:55.560 I don't feel guilty about using. And now she's saying like, she can't support them anymore.

00:10:02.080 In general, what are your thoughts about boycotts, I guess, for brands in terms of maybe

00:10:07.260 fashion brands or in terms of Oatly even? Well, as we know, there's no ethical

00:10:14.340 consumption under capitalism. So I've stopped buying Oatly this week, just while I get the

00:10:21.780 facts and think about if they had any statements actually in saying that. Oatly has responded in

00:10:28.960 some tweets, one of them saying, we understand that partnering with Blackstone is an unexpected

00:10:33.680 choice. However, through this partnership, we are able to get the leading player in private equity

00:10:38.500 to invest in sustainability and to align their goals and values with our own. That's one thing

00:10:45.180 to note. I don't know how I feel about that. For me, boycotting depends on each company

00:10:52.440 because money talks, right? That's the only way that executives listen is if we vote with our

00:10:59.900 dollar. What do you think? Yeah, I think this issue is so complicated. I've been reading it

00:11:06.100 for the past few days and I don't have a standpoint still. And I like this quote that

00:11:12.220 this ethical marketing strategist, Sian Conway tweeted, and this is what she said.

00:11:19.100 The Oatly issue just goes to show how broken our system is. Sustainable brands can't go

00:11:24.080 mainstream and create widespread change without investment. Investment comes at a cost to the

00:11:29.060 environment that means conscious consumers can't shop their values even when they try.

00:11:34.240 So it's not a simple matter of, I want to shop in a, I want to support good businesses. I'm

00:11:40.940 going to shop there it's not like a very black and white issue I think nuance is literally the

00:11:46.160 most overused word this year but there is a lot of nuance to it and because I don't know neither

00:11:51.060 of us are business or we're not business we're not you know neither of us um you know are in the

00:11:57.360 business industry or are investors like we don't know the ins and outs of how this works like

00:12:03.800 perhaps you know a lot of people have been saying Oatly could have saw some money elsewhere and then

00:12:09.500 And I think Oatly was the one that came back to that and was like, well, if we didn't take the

00:12:13.600 money, another business would get that money. And, you know, it might not be a business that's

00:12:18.120 trying to be green, which is interesting to consider too. Yeah, that's one thing to think

00:12:23.640 about. I think their stance is that they're trying to create change in these like unethical

00:12:30.140 investments, I guess. I would like to hear your thoughts on them trying to make change from the

00:12:36.960 inside, because that can sometimes be a bit of a flawed topic. Yeah, because that's another

00:12:42.700 argument I've heard that's in favour of Oatly going on with this partnership, because they're

00:12:48.280 like, oh, can't they help Blackstone be more greener? So as Laura Young, who is a climate

00:12:53.680 activist, said, accepting investment from big firms and then saying a small brand is going to

00:12:59.120 try and influence them is naive. In this case, Oatly is a $200 million investment out of the

00:13:05.540 $538 billion in assets under management Blackstone have. We were talking about this earlier this week

00:13:12.300 and in our DMs you said that you spoke to your Instagram mutual and environmentalist

00:13:18.820 Tammy Gann or Lil Earth Girl and like to hear more about that conversation and her stance on

00:13:26.120 boycotting. It was really nice so Tammy reached out to me and was just like hey what are your

00:13:31.360 thoughts on this and we just did some voice notes back and forth discussing the issue because

00:13:35.500 I think similar to me she also didn't know where she stood with this and I know she read a lot of

00:13:41.820 articles and listened to some podcasts about it just to hear from a few different perspectives

00:13:46.820 so she ended up um coming to the conclusion that she doesn't know if she should boycott them

00:13:52.920 herself but she thinks that regardless of if you do if you don't I think we still need to keep

00:13:58.060 brands um accountable and I think that's what she really came out of it feeling and I definitely

00:14:03.540 agree um I talked to her about you know the idea of being conscious consumers um so I can read out

00:14:12.300 a little bit of what I sent her so Tammy was writing a piece for green is the new black and

00:14:17.980 I was talking to her and I said I focus on becoming a better consumer and within that

00:14:23.720 there's an acknowledgement that neither I nor brands can be perfect the boycotting of brands

00:14:29.640 feels counterproductive? Why are we turning our backs on people who are actually willing to listen

00:14:34.260 and learn? I encourage calling culture, which actually seeks to make change rather than the

00:14:39.820 often accusatory and gleeful admonishment that call out culture thrives upon. Well, you've been

00:14:45.720 doing that for ages now, like on your Instagram is, I would say it's calling out brands, but you

00:14:51.480 might not define it as that. I guess it's more questioning brands. And you've actually inspired

00:14:55.660 me to do that as well. A few months ago, there was a shoe brand that I really wanted to buy from

00:15:00.780 and there wasn't enough information on their website and I Instagrammed them and just asked

00:15:05.900 them the questions and they responded, you know, very nicely and they gave me the information that

00:15:12.180 I wanted and I made my own decision off of that. I kind of wanted to ask where that came from for

00:15:18.560 you and like why you started to do that on Instagram. I do reach out to brands quite often.

00:15:25.120 I really make use of that DM tool and I basically ask fashion brands more about their ethics and

00:15:30.800 sustainability after reading what I can on their website just to find out more information.

00:15:36.160 So I'd say in the past, I was definitely more on that call out culture side where I was quite

00:15:40.880 accusatory and I came to the conversations quite aggressive. But now I've learned that's not the

00:15:46.300 way to open up an honest dialogue where the other person on the end of the phone, I guess,

00:15:52.180 feels comfortable sharing so I've definitely tried to come to it from a curious perspective

00:15:57.860 like that's the tone I try to take and you know I'm willing to listen to what they have to say

00:16:03.320 and I also do tell them that I'll publish this on my stories and I give them a chance to comment

00:16:08.520 any and or add anything else they want to so no defamation for me thank you

00:16:12.780 but I just think as consumers we have the complete right to know where our money's going and if we

00:16:20.340 want to financially support a brand, especially if they're kind of making some statements about

00:16:26.580 being kind of ethical, I think you can definitely question them on that. What type of questions did

00:16:32.580 you ask the shoe brand, if you remember? If they paid their workers a minimum wage because their

00:16:37.640 factory was in China and she sent me pictures. So it's an Australian woman and she sent me pictures

00:16:43.820 from the factory pre-COVID. The factory looked really nice, but she wasn't exactly explicit

00:16:48.680 it yeah in how she pays them and what their hours are I was asking more about their human rights

00:16:55.040 and with everything that's going on with the Uyghur Muslims in China at the moment I definitely

00:17:00.040 wanted to be knowing what I was spending my money on I ended up being kind of satisfied with the 1.00

00:17:07.780 response not 100% but I haven't bought into them yet but it was very invigorating I guess to

00:17:14.280 ask those questions and I know a few of your followers have also started that as well right

00:17:19.520 like you're really encouraging people to ask the questions if they want to know yeah and I think

00:17:25.500 it's also the thing of like these are questions that businesses should know as well we're not

00:17:30.000 really asking them too much and even like you said if you're not financially buying them at least

00:17:35.700 you're giving that message to the brand and saying hey I'm actually interested in your ethics and

00:17:39.780 production which will obviously hopefully anyway encourage them to take this messaging on board

00:17:46.480 yeah I read a really great piece for Refinery29 UK by Georgia Murray and it's called Influencer

00:17:54.320 Culture is Changing Who Will Influence Us Now and in it she's talking more about fashion and

00:18:00.040 influence the culture and like a post-pandemic world and what we're going to be buying but she

00:18:06.960 says that the future of all brands no matter what they sell is to stand for something and if they're

00:18:13.020 not standing for something then they're at least not negatively affecting our world and so I think

00:18:18.520 with this only thing we're at this point where people are just fed up of yeah of giving money

00:18:24.820 to things that are destroying life and the world as we know it I think people are incredibly aware

00:18:30.240 of the fact that their dollar is really the most tangible way to make change and just to backtrack

00:18:37.540 a little bit there I just want to even go back to the concept of being a conscious consumer and

00:18:42.260 being a better shopper because I think it's so hard okay there's this specific scene I have from

00:18:48.100 a movie or a tv show and I literally can't place it at all but I'm just going to try explain it

00:18:53.160 and basically it was this like weird like moral conundrum or quandary and you know this dude wanted

00:18:59.920 to buy like organic tomatoes right he just wanted to do something good but even that action caused

00:19:06.180 so many like bad repercussions like for instance he was like oh maybe you like use too much water

00:19:11.600 or the workers weren't getting paid or the transport emissions from that something along

00:19:16.160 that line I don't even know did I make up this I don't know tv show but um it got me thinking

00:19:22.260 because I don't think we can ever really really really truly live or make ethical purchases and

00:19:29.160 I think that's okay as well I hate I hate the people who like you know um ridicule like Greta

00:19:36.240 Thunberg because you know oh she's using a phone or whatever you know or that time where like she's

00:19:41.260 photographed with a with plastic cutlery you know like we have to do the best within the system

00:19:46.480 that we live in with the tools that we have exactly you can live what we have to unless you

00:19:52.200 want to starve or like live out in the woods like you have to participate in this culture

00:19:57.140 of consumption and if you're in the system you can't actively scrutinize it and analyze it and

00:20:05.120 question it but it is true can we ever can brands ever be truly ethical uh we don't know and i think

00:20:12.820 only is just the brand of the moment that is being exposed for like not being 100 perfect

00:20:18.820 it even makes me question like my sustainable fashion purchases because yes they are great for

00:20:25.140 so many reasons you know they're paying the workers correctly they're thinking about the

00:20:28.800 fabrics they're using but then in my head I'm like hmm it's still feeding into the system of

00:20:33.060 consumption or over consumption and it's still using like our planet's resources which is

00:20:37.760 interesting and I read this really great article back in 2018 I mean I read it today but it's from

00:20:43.800 2018 and it's by a publication called Quartz and basically they just deal with this like moral

00:20:50.340 questions of making ethical choices and how it's so complex for instance even cotton in t-shirts

00:20:58.360 can be problematic because it takes up so much water and so much resources and the way that

00:21:04.740 they kind of neatly narrowed it down is that it's not like a right or wrong black or white answer

00:21:10.640 and I'll quote them just at the end there isn't a simple answer to complex questions but the

00:21:16.540 ethical approach is to engage with the difficulties rather than avoiding them so I think the fact that

00:21:21.860 we're talking about this is in of itself a great step yeah and just doing like I just this week

00:21:30.360 have said I'm gonna not drink only just while I gather my thoughts and do my own research and then

00:21:36.140 make a decision and to be honest I'm probably not gonna completely boycott them because I'm trying

00:21:41.220 my hardest to live in this system only brings me joy. I love getting my coffee in the morning and

00:21:48.100 going on a walk. And that's something that during 2020 and during this crazy time is one small piece

00:21:55.200 of joy. And I don't know, is that privilege to say to keep buying it because 10% of their money

00:22:02.160 goes to destroying the Amazon? Or is it a fact that no brand will ever be completely ethical

00:22:07.560 and we just have to try our hardest. And you touched on something so important there, like that

00:22:12.620 enjoyment you get from, you know, getting your coffee. It reminded me of this book I read early

00:22:18.140 in this year, which I really loved. It was by Jonathan Sanfoa and it's called We Are the Weather

00:22:23.960 Saving the Planet Begins at Breakfast. And it basically tackles like climate change and like

00:22:28.280 what we eat and stuff like that. And basically I don't have the book, so I can't quote it,

00:22:33.300 but you know, it was really interesting what he brought up. He said something along the lines of

00:22:36.660 like you know we try to be ethical and we try to take care of the planet why so that we can enjoy

00:22:42.220 it and those after us can enjoy it and live healthy fulfilling lives we care about the planet

00:22:47.120 because we want to sustain the life on it right but we are the life on it as well so our pleasure

00:22:53.120 is important so I think like definitely don't discount that

00:22:56.180 you said in our chat earlier before that you've consumed heaps this week so what have you been

00:23:09.220 loving what do you recommend us apart from kissing booth too i also finished the tv series upload

00:23:16.960 which is on amazon prime and i very very very much enjoyed it very much my cup of tea

00:23:22.820 so it is a dark science fiction comedy drama and like a little plot summary is that it's basically

00:23:29.940 about a man is able to choose his own afterlife after his untimely death by having his consciousness

00:23:36.380 uploaded into the virtual world as he gets used to his new life and befriends his angel aka his

00:23:42.720 real world handler questions about his death arise so you're nodding nodding have you heard

00:23:48.740 about this as you're describing it I remember watching the trailer and it looks really funny

00:23:54.340 yes yeah it's got like the main actor is like Robbie Emile or something and sorry I call him

00:24:00.520 like Audi Tom Cruise he's like just like I'm so sorry like he's still attractive but like yeah

00:24:08.860 he's he's Audi Tom Cruise um so basically how I would describe the show it's The Good Place

00:24:14.480 meets Black Mirror but just like definitely not as intense as Black Mirror but definitely not as

00:24:19.480 light as The Good Place and it was just so fun it was it dealt with so many different concepts

00:24:26.280 it's set in like 2033 so like not that far off but you know it's futuristic earth but dealing

00:24:33.060 with a lot of the same problems that we have here at the moment such as like consumerism

00:24:37.520 intrusive technology and capitalism and I think they did it really well except it's just unfortunate

00:24:43.240 that Amazon created this show and there's like even product placement and I'm just like shaking

00:24:49.120 my fist at the screen like you're part of the problem like um but apart from that it's it's a

00:24:55.520 great show it's quite short I think episodes are 30 minutes and there's like 10 episodes so yeah

00:25:00.460 wouldn't recommend it looks really cool how long are the episodes half an hour yeah 30 minutes I

00:25:05.780 think it's an easy watch but it also has some hard or like dark themes so there's that to consider

00:25:13.720 as well cool that might be my next binge yeah because you finished a tv show or series this

00:25:20.540 week yes i watched on stan it's called i hate susie oh my god it's probably the best thing

00:25:29.780 i've seen all year um it's i saw the trailer well i didn't purposely see the trailer you know when

00:25:36.840 you're on the streaming sites and you just start playing so i will give you a bit of a summary

00:25:42.040 it's written by lucy prebble who also wrote she's written for the stage and also wrote succession

00:25:49.400 and billy piper who's a british actress from diary of a secret call girl and doctor who

00:25:57.260 they wrote it together the story is it's about a woman called Susie Pickles who was a former

00:26:04.300 child star who won a talent contest and then she's become an actress in this like sci-fi

00:26:09.560 series and on the day it starts she's about to get a job from Disney and in the very first episode

00:26:17.580 she discovers that pictures of her in a sex act with someone who's not her husband are hacked

00:26:23.240 and released to the public and the audience watches her life unravel each episode is named

00:26:29.080 after a different emotion so it's kind of like the um you know the stages of grief so there's

00:26:34.680 shock anger denial bargaining it's eight episodes and you kind of see her like dealing with the

00:26:41.340 repercussions of a nude photo hack and I watched it in two sittings it yeah it was so good it

00:26:49.040 It reminds me a little bit of Fleabag.

00:26:51.520 Did you ever watch Fleabag?

00:26:52.940 I haven't yet, but I definitely will get to it.

00:26:55.820 Yeah.

00:26:56.300 So I think because it's one, it's set in the UK,

00:26:58.400 but it also has really funny and honest writing.

00:27:01.860 It's written by a woman. 0.89

00:27:03.120 It's directed by a woman.

00:27:04.620 So it was really just well written.

00:27:07.960 So it explores womanhood and how she's balancing being a mother

00:27:11.620 with her own acting career.

00:27:14.180 And also how when things like new leaks happen, 0.89

00:27:17.040 how badly they can affect women. 0.91

00:27:19.040 versus how they affect men like in this she basically loses everything um and the man who

00:27:26.060 she's had an affair with his life goes basically unchanged so that's really interesting the way

00:27:31.320 explores that but when i was reading reviews it was interesting to hear from lucy prebble that

00:27:38.500 the show was turned down by broadcasters who said that quote we already have our woman having a

00:27:43.900 breakdown show wow it feels like the 1950s like we already have a show about women's problems like

00:27:51.860 so i'm glad that in the uk sky picked it up the channel sky and here it's stan it bends genres a

00:27:59.780 bit as well so it's obviously a drama but it also feels like a musical in a few parts and then a

00:28:06.800 little bit art house in others when they are portraying dream scenes or memories so it's

00:28:12.860 definitely not your regular drama i'd say that sounds so good is it long because you watch it

00:28:19.080 in two sittings yeah so i think each episode is about half an hour some are 40 minutes and there's

00:28:23.660 eight episodes so yeah i did watch it for a few hours at a time i feel like there hasn't been

00:28:29.240 much like content produced on like nude like leaked nudes from like a female perspective it's

00:28:36.340 almost like they're reclaiming the narrative rather than like media like you know reporting

00:28:41.060 on it which sounds good yeah in it that she has there's only a couple of characters and in it she

00:28:47.100 has this manager who she's known her whole life their childhood friends yeah it's so interesting

00:28:51.860 watching their dynamic as best friends and then her trying to be a manager to a celebrity whose 0.99

00:28:58.260 life is unraveling and like trying to hold all together and yeah how women are treated in the

00:29:04.120 media like at one point her house gets like where her house is gets leaked to the public and you 0.95

00:29:10.160 know they're trying to keep the pictures from being published in a newspaper and trying to

00:29:14.240 keep a marriage together so it's definitely not I wouldn't say it's light it's sometimes it was

00:29:20.360 quite heavy but I was just so enthralled in the story that I couldn't take my eyes off it

00:29:26.420 so I would 100% recommend that best thing I've watched all year well high praise okay I'll add

00:29:33.320 to my list now that oc is finished yes i finished like 20 years ago

00:29:37.980 um well i've actually got another um recommendation for us this week i don't know if you've heard of

00:29:45.620 her she's like this really like emerging writer her name's jasmine wallace have you heard of her

00:29:51.460 oh my god you're funny um but no i'm not just picking this because you're my co-host i really

00:29:58.060 love this article that you penned for Artemis I think a week or two ago now and it is called

00:30:04.160 how social media has changed the way I read novels do you want to give us a little spiel

00:30:09.240 about what it's about yeah so Artemis is a platform for women writers to tell their stories

00:30:18.080 and you write to a theme my theme was questioning so it's something that I've thought about for a

00:30:24.980 while now like maybe a year about I can get really caught up in trying to keep up with everyone and

00:30:32.320 having cultural FOMO and I noticed that I was only reading the books that I was seeing in my

00:30:39.940 Instagram bubble and also sometimes buying books when I'd seen the cover on Instagram and I didn't

00:30:47.860 even know what the book was really about and that's when I was like this is so bad like I'm

00:30:52.560 just trying to keep up with everyone. I'm not reading because I genuinely want to. I'm reading

00:30:57.980 so that I don't fall out of conversations, you know what I mean? So yeah, this book kind of

00:31:02.840 explores, this book, this article kind of explores my feelings around that and how the internet has

00:31:09.840 influenced the way we consume things, how I'm going to try and change that going forward.

00:31:15.740 Yeah, I really enjoyed it because you touched on quite a lot of different things in the piece.

00:31:20.720 he went through you know how books have intersected with social media and the algorithm

00:31:25.260 and with our own friendship circles and also how like the purpose of books has shifted as well

00:31:32.220 um I actually pulled out a few quotes if you don't mind reading them um I pulled like three

00:31:38.560 different ones but they kind of flow together I don't know how long they'll be but I promise that

00:31:42.620 I didn't ask her to recommend this oh my god no she did actually she dm'd me and she was like

00:31:47.540 maggie please recommend my article she didn't she didn't just playing how embarrassing i was like

00:31:54.720 maggie i really need you to read this out this week thank you for choosing it okay now i'm gonna

00:32:02.200 quote myself okay like many people books and words have always been a major part of my life

00:32:08.240 while i used to get my book recommendations from the scholastic book fair the highlight of the year

00:32:13.040 for a six-year-old bookworm. It's now my Instagram bubble that really helps me decide or rather

00:32:18.420 tells me what I should be reading. We follow our friends and influencers because of their

00:32:23.320 personalities and have actual trust in them to recommend us products. This creates an echo

00:32:28.240 chamber defined in the spreading of misinformation online as closed environments inside of which

00:32:34.140 users are not reached by contrasting information. As the Japanese writer Haruki Murakami said,

00:32:40.080 if you only read the books that everyone else is reading you can only think what everyone else is

00:32:44.720 thinking. That is not one large quote that is like three things taken out of different paragraphs

00:32:51.560 but yeah I've already started trying to expand a little bit. I bought a book last week by an

00:32:58.340 author that I love but an author who's not in the zeitgeist right now and I'm really loving that so

00:33:04.300 that's been nice to enjoy something just for the sake of reading a book not trying to like

00:33:09.640 you know read something to recommend on here or to talk about in book club or to post a picture

00:33:17.080 of on my Instagram to see that I'm like you know keeping up to date yeah you've made me think as

00:33:22.780 well I've got a stack of books like next to me that are you know next to read and looking at

00:33:28.800 the titles you know they're very popular trendy at the moment and they're all unfortunately by

00:33:33.620 white cis women and I'm just like I definitely need to expand this book list because it's a very 0.56

00:33:39.900 narrow understanding of the world I guess yeah that's something I noticed a lot at the start

00:33:45.860 of the year my new year's resolution was also to buy more books by people of color because I

00:33:51.720 basically only read women but I noticed that they were all white western women and I was like oh 1.00

00:33:58.420 this is not good for my brain or my perspective so um yeah it's a work in progress and thanks to 0.95

00:34:05.460 everyone for all of your book recommendations on instagram that was great to have such like

00:34:09.820 a wide range of books and genres so excited to dig into a few of those we had everything from

00:34:17.620 teenage fantasy novels to thrillers to self-help books to memoirs yeah a great melting pot of

00:34:25.060 recommendations which is now on our Instagram highlights check it out and it seems like we've

00:34:29.940 run out of time and words this week but thank you again for joining us on our little chat today

00:34:36.940 yeah I don't know if we came to any conclusions with the ethical brands but it's a very nuanced

00:34:42.860 topic so everyone just do your own research make up your own minds it's the only way let us know

00:34:49.520 what you thought and maybe where you're sitting with this um issue on our instagram dm us comment

00:34:55.120 you know give us engagement we're not needy also don't forget to um subscribe to our podcast

00:35:03.840 wherever you listen and maybe leave a little review if you enjoyed it because that helps

00:35:07.840 us out a lot and we'll chat to you again next week bye

Culture Club - September 07, 2020

Uh Oh Oatly, Can Brands Ever Be Ethical？

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