Culture Club - How Poh Ling Yeow Cooked Up A Creative Life

00:00:00.000 Chasing multiple creative pursuits, overcoming shyness, and the magic of MasterChef with

00:00:12.800 Gold Logie nominee Po Ling Yao. I'm Jasmine. And I'm Maggie, and you're listening to Culture

00:00:19.160 Club. This is our monthly interview with people we find interesting and that we think you will too.

00:00:24.460 Today we are recording on the lands of the Wurundjeri, Woiwurrung and Kaurna people.

00:00:33.480 We would like to pay our respects to Elders past and present

00:00:36.660 and extend this to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today.

00:00:44.220 Po Ling Yao has been a beloved fixture on TV since her MasterChef debut in 2009.

00:00:49.920 She's hosted multiple shows like ABC's Poe's Kitchen and SBS's Poe & Co,

00:00:56.160 and has authored multiple cookbooks.

00:00:58.920 Now she's back as one of the judges of MasterChef.

00:01:02.240 The Malaysian-Chinese star isn't slowing down anytime soon.

00:01:06.160 She's been nominated for the prestigious TV week Gold Logie.

00:01:10.000 Thanks so much for joining us on Culture Club.

00:01:12.460 Exciting week for you.

00:01:14.020 Lots obviously happening.

00:01:15.820 You're a busy woman as always, but especially this week.

00:01:19.420 we want to know what's a typical week looking for you right now this week is dress fittings

00:01:25.320 and doing stuff like this so publicity about um the nomination and it's it's kind of all about

00:01:32.000 yes this week focused yeah of course because yes if listeners aren't aware you are a gold

00:01:38.520 logie nominee what would winning this award mean to you look i'm very philosophical about things

00:01:45.400 like this even in season one when you know I was in the finale I was like I've already won I really

00:01:51.020 feel that like to the bone I'm not just putting it on for defense I just feel like so much of

00:01:57.840 this kind of thing is about you know getting there and it's a really huge honor to be to be

00:02:03.500 nominated um and I think as a migrant it's you know extra special because I think I felt so on

00:02:10.740 altar as a kid. And it's just, you know, the ultimate public validation. Not that that's

00:02:16.220 what's required for, yeah, like it's, you know, you have to do a lot of the work yourself,

00:02:22.840 but it's just a really nice, it's just nice and bolstering for, you know, it's just like a little

00:02:29.560 nod my way to say, hey, you know, you're heading in the right direction. You're doing the right

00:02:33.180 things. People, you know, you resonate with people. So I think it's really all that that

00:02:38.460 means more to me than the actual win um but of course if I did I would be incredibly shocked

00:02:43.780 because I'm in a you know a lineup of um really established uh media talent and um and it has

00:02:52.060 been such a great thing to be known with so many women um so yeah all of that's already so special

00:02:58.360 so yeah but winning it would be really amazing I think I might if I did win I would be maybe the

00:03:04.860 first Chinese Australian went to break out the win which is pretty cool 2025 come on people

00:03:11.660 I know right I'm like what we've been around since the gold rush like yeah I'm pretty sure

00:03:18.140 I haven't looked into it but I'm it feels right yeah it feels yeah yeah and your dad has also

00:03:25.160 come along with you as a big campaigner what's that been like it's been really hilarious um I

00:03:31.320 thought that it would be uh yeah his suggestion of like low-tech um posters peppered through all

00:03:38.000 our favorite Chinese eateries has been nothing short of funny and um and I and I thought I

00:03:45.080 remember when he first asked me if he could do it I was like dad that's such a terrible idea

00:03:49.400 and then next next minute I was like actually maybe it's not such a bad idea um because you

00:03:54.200 know I have such a love for local and community and like to me um I think we always think fancy

00:04:01.480 but it's the people that actually you know are connected to you genuinely that um I I think it

00:04:08.160 has a better um flow effect so yeah so we printed up a whole bunch of posters and um yeah he put

00:04:16.920 them in all his favorite local Asian restaurants so it's just it's been very funny and but also a

00:04:22.480 really lovely thing for us to connect on because I think in the past like he's always been very

00:04:27.420 busy with work and we haven't had you know the best relationship but it's just been such a lovely

00:04:33.580 point of connection and getting closer and he's so excited about coming because I'm actually 1.00

00:04:39.340 taking him to the Logies so yeah stop yeah so watch out for the little bald Chinese man on the red 0.99

00:04:45.960 God he's gonna love that that is so exciting I think there's definitely something about especially 0.75

00:04:54.460 having Asian parents that are proud of you and it's you know they often don't explicitly say it

00:05:01.220 so there are kind of nuances in the way that it's shown so I mean going around and putting 0.91

00:05:05.700 posters up is definitely a way of showing pride yeah yeah no he's been very brazen and it's it's

00:05:12.640 very diverse the people he's hit up it's from local chemists to news agencies but mainly his

00:05:17.720 favorite eats hangs so sweet he's probably just vying for a free little custard tart or something

00:05:25.040 probably yeah I wouldn't put that past him that's a good point you were runner-up of the first

00:05:31.780 season of MasterChef Australia and now you're back as one of the MasterChef judges why do you

00:05:37.660 think that MasterChef is so beloved, especially in Australia? I think the main part of it is,

00:05:43.920 well, firstly, eating is a fundamental of life. So it's something that everyone can relate to.

00:05:49.680 Secondly, it's a very positive show. We're not there to cut people down. We're there to give,

00:05:55.480 you know, really constructive feedback. And there's something about watching people cook

00:06:04.660 that's very relaxing, I think. And for some reason, the show really resonates with kids.

00:06:10.740 I think it's something to do with them attaching the characters and watching people have to be

00:06:16.760 brave. I think that's a very appealing thing day in and day out. So it's very aspirational. But

00:06:22.360 one of the reasons why the Australian version in particular is so beloved internationally as well

00:06:27.660 is because our cuisine is so diverse. So when you see other master chefs across the world,

00:06:33.820 they tend to be very singularly focused on their cultural cuisine whereas with us where we're just

00:06:39.580 like wild you know we because we're such a culture of migrants so um the type of food that we have on

00:06:47.320 the show is incredibly diverse so that's that's one of the reasons why i also want to ask as well

00:06:53.420 because some people who are fans of yours might not know that you have also been a working

00:06:57.640 professional artist for 20 years over 20 years now I'm curious when was the first time art I

00:07:04.380 guess clicked with you and you realized that this is what you want to be doing from a really really

00:07:10.780 young age I remember it was an active mimicry when I first started because I really really

00:07:17.620 like admired my brother and he's an incredible artist he's much more talented than me I really

00:07:22.920 struggle and I work hard, whereas he's just got a lot of natural talent. And I remember just kind

00:07:29.720 of literally scribbling on paper. I was really little. I was probably about five and just

00:07:35.680 mimicking the act of doing it. And I think watching him be creative was probably the seed of it. And

00:07:44.040 then as I got older, because I was quite an introvert, I, I found it a way to quiet my

00:07:52.900 social anxiety as a kid, because I was, you know, very, very, very shy. And I remember the first

00:08:00.580 time I created a picture, uh, from, I, I, I recognized that it was an incredible feeling

00:08:09.560 to be able to make something out of nothing you know and I think that's the thing that also

00:08:14.080 fascinates me about food you get raw ingredients that are nothing and then all this alchemy happens

00:08:18.780 and you create a delicious meal so with a painting or a drawing it's the same it's just a white piece

00:08:24.420 of paper and with some pencils and observation and you know um you you can create something

00:08:30.700 that's three-dimensional and I remember feeling like incredible power within um when I had that

00:08:38.240 And I think because I was, uh, felt quite, um, and I don't, it's not because of anyone.

00:08:45.060 I was just so painfully shy that I would, it was, there was a lot of withdrawing as

00:08:51.120 well, socially.

00:08:51.900 So it wasn't that anyone was being mean to me.

00:08:54.300 I was being bullied or anything like that.

00:08:56.360 It was just sort of this internal thing.

00:08:58.140 I felt like unworthy.

00:09:00.220 Um, and so it was a way that I just, I recognize, wow, when I'm doing this, I feel incredible.

00:09:07.660 and I feel so at peace and it gave me, I connected having something that gave me a sense of purpose

00:09:16.740 and my confidence right away as a kid. So it's always been a place of solace for me to be able

00:09:24.380 to make art. I'm curious when you're speaking about those very relatable, I guess, feelings

00:09:31.360 of unworthiness growing up, did you experience that more in Malaysia or when you came over to

00:09:36.560 Australia? It's really interesting because for many, many years, decades, in fact, the rhetoric

00:09:42.900 in my brain was because I was in a foreign country and looking different definitely didn't help.

00:09:50.100 But when I look back at my childhood, I felt it even in the land that I was born. So I kind of

00:09:57.480 popped out like that. I think I was just so shy. And I think when we were kids, my parents were

00:10:04.980 always super busy and we were left my brother and I were left to our own devices most of the time

00:10:09.320 and so we weren't really encouraged to socialize much so I think that part of my personality was

00:10:15.520 just so underdeveloped and then when we came to Australia where I feel like as part of the

00:10:21.460 education system social um all the social stuff is really encouraged you know like playing sport

00:10:27.100 and um and like playtime is actually an important part of the day and play in general is something

00:10:32.100 that it's talked about as part of as an important part of social development and not having any of

00:10:37.680 that I came to this country where all the kids seemed incredibly confident to me and um everything

00:10:43.780 from just being able to um I don't know swing across monkey bars and not feel self-conscious

00:10:50.200 and playing a team sport and knowing that you can catch the ball like for me that took a lot 0.98

00:10:55.860 of imagination to think that I could actually catch a ball that's how kind of crap I like

00:11:02.160 that's how sort of lowly I felt in terms of like my physicality like I just had no connection with

00:11:07.560 stuff like that I was very internal um a real very very bookish and it was all about sort of

00:11:14.660 my imagination and escapism for me um so yeah when I came here I did I think it did become

00:11:21.600 multiplied. But even at school in Malaysia, because I wasn't, I definitely wasn't academically

00:11:27.880 talented. And that's where all the emphasis is on in Malaysia. I felt very on the outer in that 0.96

00:11:36.260 regard as well. I felt stupid and I didn't have social skills. And then when I came here, 0.98

00:11:42.800 it kind of flipped. I felt like because the school system is so sympathetic to

00:11:48.640 different kinds of learning and you know and I remember just thinking I felt really gypped because

00:11:53.400 like you know kids were like playing in the sandpit and I was like oh my god we were doing exams at

00:11:58.400 that age in Malaysia like it's just so hardcore like right from the beginning and in your first

00:12:06.480 year of school you're doing like geography and history like you know you're doing proper subjects 0.98

00:12:10.120 it's not just sort of like general classroom stuff so yeah I think that was exacerbated but

00:12:15.180 the physical part of looking different still has a massive impact on me, believe it or not,

00:12:21.920 as a 51-year-old woman. And I think because I'm so busy now and I'm getting more tired,

00:12:27.740 it's kind of almost like out of fatigue that I don't care about it, but it very quickly comes

00:12:32.420 to the surface if I'm in certain types of environments. So yeah, and it's really interesting

00:12:38.680 because when I was in my 20s, I did hair and makeup for quite a while. And I think that part

00:12:44.100 of me was really attracted to that industry because I wanted to be close to the things that

00:12:48.420 I found ideal. Um, and it was sort of almost like a worshipful position I used to take. Yeah. It was

00:12:55.580 just something about it that I still found very beguiling and that I really aspired to

00:13:00.840 unrealistically, of course. Um, yeah. So yeah, it's an interesting topic that still kind of

00:13:06.280 plays on my mind um which and I find it interesting that at my age I still sometimes struggle with it

00:13:14.480 I mean these these wounds hit deep right and it's hard to fully move past them I feel like shyness

00:13:22.420 doesn't seem like something that resonates as much with you I could be very wrong you just come

00:13:26.760 across very confident uh how did you if you did get over that shyness yeah no definitely I think

00:13:33.320 I've definitely that that one's done um I I think I think it's a real fake it till you make it kind

00:13:41.260 of situation but I think finding your people definitely works I think like um certain people

00:13:49.500 I met in my 20s were really formative um having a sense of humor is a really good one I think like

00:13:57.220 uh not being not afraid to sort of you know make fun of yourself and just having a having a laugh

00:14:05.240 about everything really you know all the tragedies and all the good parts but mainly the bad parts

00:14:11.660 I think that's been a really big part having a sense of humor has been a really big thing

00:14:16.700 for helping me get over shyness because I think when you can laugh about it with someone it it

00:14:21.600 sort of it's displayed and when you realize that you're not actually that different you know

00:14:28.680 most people suffer from some degree of it and so I think that's how I've kind of gotten over it but

00:14:36.860 I even in the first I think the first season of my I guess like working also as a makeup artist

00:14:44.160 I'd have to interact with people all the time and with people that were in the media so I think that

00:14:49.700 helped and then even being on MasterChef the first time that was a very mega moment for me

00:14:57.100 because I think being a little bit like definitely neurodivergent it was the first time I was in an

00:15:03.540 environment where what I used to feel was very chaotic ways of working I used to find it very

00:15:09.340 frustrating about myself and didn't know how to rein it in I would it was really celebrated in

00:15:14.000 that environment so that did a huge amount for my self-esteem and also being 35 a woman um you know

00:15:22.780 Julie and I being in the finale together as two women over 35 um was a really big deal I think

00:15:29.460 like 16 years ago um and oh yeah yeah it it just set my mind up on a very different trajectory

00:15:39.080 yeah and then just also just having all these um really big things happen to me like getting my own

00:15:44.500 tv show and and and yeah feeling very validated um in my chaos I was like yeah okay I'm I'm

00:15:53.320 actually okay I'm doing okay and and however I work is is somehow still resonating so I'm

00:16:01.120 it must be all right and it's always been very organic for me um I've never really I've always

00:16:07.040 been aware of things that I've had to work on and you know as a kid um actually no I did attack it

00:16:14.340 when I was late teens mid high school I was really frustrated by my own shyness and I started doing

00:16:20.580 this thing called speech and drama which is you know when you're at school and you do music lessons

00:16:24.220 you could do a drama version of that and you did exams and it was um you know reciting poetry

00:16:30.540 it's quite posh um like elocution and all that kind of stuff and you learn about you know um

00:16:37.700 plosives and you know how to form words well and all that kind of stuff so it's essentially

00:16:42.420 private acting classes and I was in this class of really really confident girls and I went into

00:16:49.580 that exam and I went into this zone and I got the best mark out of the class which was in like a

00:16:56.920 shock to everyone I think that was probably my first experience of thinking I can get out of

00:17:01.880 this I've always also had this feeling of I think there is something about me that is on the

00:17:07.980 performer side but how will it ever come out like I I couldn't see a way that I could release that

00:17:14.680 person and doing drama was a really big one um and I recognized this thing where I could lock

00:17:21.720 into this zone and kind of like shunt the shyness away um if I was getting a reaction out of people

00:17:27.940 um so yeah so I think that was that was quite a big one as well earlier on you've had so many

00:17:34.660 creative endeavors over your life and I think something that I know Maggie and I struggle with

00:17:40.400 and I think that our listeners might as well is this kind of push and pull of wanting to pursue

00:17:45.140 so many different career paths and endeavors how do you nurture your different talents and

00:17:51.460 hobbies and sides of yourself when you're so multifaceted? With trouble. I live a very chaotic

00:17:58.340 life. I really do. And I think I am so greedy for experience. I think if you're creative,

00:18:05.900 it's very likely that you're multi-hyphenate and you have lots of different interests

00:18:10.300 and will develop different interests as you go on, you know, your career path.

00:18:15.880 and I think the thing about it is not to think about it in such a concrete way and just let it

00:18:22.180 evolve like don't be too fixated about a certain career path and I think you'll be right and it

00:18:28.820 does mean that you have to live with quite a lot of uncertainty I will I will premise it with that

00:18:34.920 which is hard because you know in terms of just the sustainability of that financially it is

00:18:42.500 it is really tough um but I've always found it worth it to protect the creativity and that

00:18:49.120 desire to kind of suck the marrow out of life and even now like you know I'm getting I'm being

00:18:54.880 around a couturier for my Logie's dress it she she's Nikki Villani is her name she's done it all

00:19:01.160 old-fashioned style so it's like she's pinned the fabric on me and we've like developed the whole

00:19:05.700 thing from doing it that way and I remember just that night I was just I could not sleep because

00:19:12.640 I was thinking oh my god I had my time again maybe that's what I that's what I would have done like

00:19:16.940 I would have gone into fat and I was like oh my god you're still doing it at 51 this is like

00:19:21.720 insatiable you know so I think the thing is to live with it I was gonna say so what you're saying

00:19:27.440 is like this never ends this feeling that Maggie and I are struggling with that we've been feeling

00:19:31.580 for like five years, it's never going to end. Yeah. And don't, I guess, don't think about it.

00:19:36.260 I think it's also just flipping your frame of mind with so much of life. I think whenever I

00:19:41.400 look at self-help or anything like that, so much of it is about just, um, giving your, like, it's

00:19:47.500 a little psychological key. And I think it's just learning to accept that that is you. If that's in

00:19:53.860 you now, it's definitely just a part of your character. And I think not to be, try to be more

00:20:00.140 in the moment of what you're doing because if something falls

00:20:03.960 in your way, you can be a bit more fluid and duck and weave.

00:20:08.660 That's how I've always sort of managed my career because I did,

00:20:11.820 I studied illustration.

00:20:14.080 While I was at uni I started doing hair and makeup because it was

00:20:16.500 something that I was really interested in doing but it was also

00:20:18.660 like getting me a little bit of income.

00:20:21.920 And then that was my big dream.

00:20:23.760 I thought when I finished I was like I don't want to go

00:20:25.460 into illustration.

00:20:26.200 I want to go to New York and be a big like sort of fashion makeup artist and then my ex was like

00:20:33.060 hey how about like your painting like he goes I'd totally support you but he was ready he was like

00:20:39.720 go for six months he's like don't worry about me he was like such an amazing enabler so he's still

00:20:45.900 my agent now even though we're not together yeah and he said like just he goes just go for it

00:20:51.540 and then he's like but you know I've always thought of you as something I just feel like

00:20:56.420 you're always going to be part of a team and I feel like you've got more to give like why don't

00:21:00.540 you have a go at you know going into fine art so that's when I did that so had a go at that and

00:21:06.780 exhibited for about seven years and then MasterChef happened because my interest in food it

00:21:12.540 was also about identity at that point because I was 35 and I remember thinking wow this is quite

00:21:19.780 sad like I've done such a good job of shedding you know all those parts of me that I that made

00:21:25.200 me different in Australia that I've they're now gone forever like the language the you know so

00:21:30.720 many things and so that's how food came into play because I that was my way of hanging on to my my

00:21:37.460 heritage and um and then apply for master's firm that you never know what don't be married to a

00:21:46.300 thought because something out of the blue can just fall in your way and take you in a different

00:21:50.960 trajectory. So like, I think, I think the idea is just to always have always navigated it is

00:21:58.380 how you feel. Like, do you feel like you're still able to be inspired by the thing? And I think

00:22:03.800 if you feel like you're starting to be more anxious, more negative thoughts, feeling like

00:22:09.600 you're in a stasis, like you're trapped, that's when it's time to move on. So you'll know.

00:22:16.300 I feel like in another lifetime you could also be a therapist you could definitely be a fashion

00:22:22.980 designer I'm waiting for a fashion line I don't know why that hasn't happened yet but

00:22:27.500 you never know I mean I wish Jazz and I could continue speaking with you forever but we are

00:22:36.900 up to our final question just a quick just a quick fire one so every week on our podcast

00:22:41.680 we give our listeners a recommendation on what we've either enjoyed reading listening to or

00:22:46.740 watching recently can you share a recommendation with us yeah um i what have i been reading okay

00:22:53.440 my it's i'm going a second round on a book called braiding sweetgrass and it's but have you heard

00:23:02.340 of it yeah i've got it on my i've actually got it on my table i haven't read it yet but it's

00:23:07.380 I've heard it yeah it's really amazing because um part of my sort of well-being practice I guess

00:23:13.260 and I don't consciously do it I just gravitate towards it because um that's how I kind of do

00:23:18.360 my life I don't really I'm not one of those people that's regimented at all um so when I

00:23:23.300 feel the need I just go there and then it'll create another little fire because I'll be like

00:23:26.780 oh I should have handed that thing in but I really need to garden so I'll just do it and I give in to

00:23:31.660 my impulses it creates a lot more chaos but it means that I'm always kind of like guided by how

00:23:38.000 I feel and that book is such a great example of doing that like being connected to nature

00:23:44.400 and being intuitive in the way that you look after yourself and your environment so um the

00:23:49.780 the author she's um a biologist and she's indigenous um North American and so it's really

00:23:57.680 amazing because she talks a lot about the word reciprocity pops up a lot and it's about how we

00:24:03.820 look after our environment in a natural way never to just keep taking always give something back

00:24:10.060 and always be in sync with it so um I love it because it just has so many analogies when you

00:24:15.720 read it that come to mind that are applicable in your normal life and the approach you should take

00:24:22.200 um so I love that I'm also reading a little David Lynch book I've just started like one page in and

00:24:29.800 it's kind of about him finding meditation I've never done it successfully I am terrible at it

00:24:36.180 um and I mean in terms of that meditation thing I feel like you find your own ways so you garden

00:24:40.980 you know no totally it's about I feel like they can yeah because I feel meditation is just flow

00:24:44.920 state so I do find it in painting and I find it in gardening and how I know is when like huge

00:24:50.800 pockets of time evaporate and you don't even your sense of self disappears and I think that's why

00:24:57.340 I really treasure my creative practices because there's something about losing yourself that makes

00:25:04.340 you find yourself you know because I was like when I was a kid I felt so self-conscious but

00:25:08.200 when I was in it I felt like I had no body I was just in the act of making and I think that's why

00:25:14.080 um yeah yeah i'll stop there i could bang on for a while i feel like we could keep talking all day

00:25:21.700 but thank you so much for your time we're gonna wrap it up here best of luck with the rest of

00:25:27.640 your old logi campaigning we will put a link in our show notes below with pose recommendations

00:25:34.440 and of course a link where you can vote for her yourself so thank you so much for your time today

00:25:40.960 thank you so much Maggie and Jess it's been so lovely and I'm happy to come back and talk again

00:25:45.100 amazing the sequel thank you for that thanks so much

Culture Club - July 31, 2025

How Poh Ling Yeow Cooked Up A Creative Life

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